The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Mark Sisson & Carrie Sisson On Longevity, Weight Management, Foot Health, & Metabolic Flexibility

Episode Date: May 1, 2023

#566: Today we're sitting down with Mark & Carrie Sisson. Mark is a New York Times bestselling author, media personality, founder of Primal Kitchen, ex-endurance athlete & has been educating the world on nutrition and the benefits of ancestral living and primal movement for 17 years via his blog, MarksDailyApple.com & today we're getting together to discuss a range of topics, from primal health & how to achieve peak performance, to the the mistakes people are making in their lives that are detrimental to their health. Mark & Carrie get into how health evolves with age, why it's important to evolve your health routines as you age, & they also dive into their secret behind 35+ years of marriage. They also get into foot health, the balance of discipline, the Ozempic epidemic & the healthiest way to lose weight. For an exclusive Discount on Peluva shoes use code "SKINNY" at peluva.com for 20% off your order. To connect with Mark Sisson click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE Subscribe to our YouTube channel HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential This episode is brought to you by Masterclass With MasterClass, you can learn from the world's best minds - anytime, anywhere and at your own pace. Get 15% off unlimited access to every class at masterclass.com/SKINNY This episode is brought to you by Sun Bum Sun Bum creates products to protect the world from the sun, specifically formulated to help protect those of us who love and live in the sun. Use code SKINNY15 at www.sunbum.com for 15% off your first purchase. This episode is brought to you by Nutrafol Nutrafol is the #1 dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement, clinically shown to improve your hair growth, thickness, and visible scalp coverage. Go to nutrafol.com and use code SKINNYHAIR to save $10 off your first month's subscription, plus free s This episode is brought to you by Betterhelp BetterHelp is online therapy that offers video, phone, and even live chat-only therapy sessions. So you don’t have to see anyone on camera if you don’t want to. It's much more affordable than in-person therapy & you can be matched with a therapist in under 48 hours. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/skinny . This episode is brought to you by AG1 AG1 is way more than greens. It's all of your key multi-vitamins, minerals, pre-and probiotics, and more, working together as one. Go to athleticgreens.com/SKINNY to get a free 1 year supply of vitamin D and 5 free travel packs with your first purchase. This episode is brought to you by Sakara Sakara delivers science-backed, plant-rich nutrition programs and wellness essentials right to your door. Their ready-to-eat meals are nutritionally designed to deliver results—from weight management and eased bloat to boosted energy and clearer skin. Go to Sakara.com/skinny or enter code SKINNY at checkout to receive 20% off your first order. Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Master Class is accessible anywhere you get your online content, your phone, your computer, the web, smart TV, basically everywhere. They offer classes on a wide range of topics. Let me name a few of their most popular courses. First, Chris Voss teaches you the art of negotiation. Jon Kabat-Zinn teaches mindfulness and meditation. Gordon Ramsay can teach you how to cook. Matthew Walker can teach you how to get better sleep. Bobby Brown can teach makeup. They have something for everyone. The class that I took a while back was done by Bob Iger, who teaches business strategy and leadership. It was a phenomenal course. Lauren has taken a class by Anna Wintour and also Chris Jenner. They literally have something for everyone. Any kind of interest that you may have or want to get better in, there's something for you. What I love about it is members can explore at their

own pace and each class has downloadable materials, guides, recipes, and more. There are hundreds of them. Both Lauren and I are personally Masterclass members, and we go back to it here and there, especially when we get a new class that piques our interest. So check it out. They continue to add classes by best-in-class performers, entrepreneurs, authors, and more. I highly recommend you check it out. Get unlimited access to every class. And as a Skinny Confidential listener, you can get up to 35% off for Mother's Day. Go to masterclass.com slash skinny now. That's masterclass.com slash skinny to get up to 35% off for Mother's Day. Masterclass.com slash skinny. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now

Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the Skinny Confidential, him and her. Being in my 60s and being able to get a booty was, first of all, really exciting. I didn't think I could still make changes in my body at this age. You know, for me, I feel really good about that. At the end of the day, I only do the things I do because I want to feel good. To me, it's really not about, like, am I going to live 120 years or 160? No, it's I want to feel good for as long as I live,

and I want to enjoy the moments that I live. So that's kind of what motivates me to craft a life that I'm seeking, which in turn comes back to, how do I feel? Well, I feel pretty damn good. Hello. Welcome back to the Skinny Confidential Podcast. Today's fun. We're doing a him and her spin. So we're sitting

down with Mark and Keri Sisson. We actually ran into them in St. Bart when we were there. And we were like, you guys both have to come on the podcast because we want to pick your brain on all things relationships. We want to talk about health, how to achieve peak performance, and even mistakes that people are making when it comes to health and fitness. So just to give you a little background, Mark has been on the podcast before. You may recognize him peak performance, and even mistakes that people are making when it comes to health and fitness. So just to give you a little background, Mark has been on the podcast before. You may recognize him as the founder of Primal Kitchen. I mean, I was literally just eating his ketchup earlier with my eggs. He's also a New York Times bestselling author, media personality, and an ex-endurance athlete. And most importantly, he just launched a company called Paloova. And we're going to get

into that. You're going to learn all about foot health. And then we also have his wife, Carrie, who's absolutely amazing. Carrie, his wife, has been a role model for the Primal Blueprint Movement started by her husband. And also she's a coach and inspiring others to live a life they love. She wrote a book called Primal Woman, a spiritual journey to being in gratitude, aging gracefully, and loving life. This episode goes all over the place. It was really fun. This one is really like you're at dinner with Mark, Keri, Michael, and I. We talk about the primal blueprint. We talk about small goals to achieve larger ones. Mark's approach to discipline, Keri and Mark's morning routine, balancing discipline,

letting loose, opinions on Ozempic, the healthiest way to lose weight, foot health and why it's important, the problems with modern running shoes and mistakes people make when it comes to health. We also at the end talk about the key to a successful marriage. This episode really, truly goes everywhere. I think you're going to love it. On that note, let's welcome Mark and Carrie to the Skinny Confidential Him and Her Show. This is the Skinny Confidential Him and Her. In my research, I read an article that you wrote a long time ago, and I feel like it's very much a theme for both of you. And you said move a lot, but don't overtrain, but also do a lot of weightlifting and less cycling, biking, running. Are you both still of the belief of that? Well, for sure. I mean, my whole primal blueprint, which was my first book,

was based on these primal laws that I discovered in evolution, right? And it was that our ancestors moved around a lot at a very low level of activity. They weren't counting calories. They weren't, you know, looking at the readout on a treadmill. They were just moving. They were just going through different ranges of motion and planes in space. So the moving around a lot isn't about burning calories or burning fat. It's about movement, right?

So that was kind of rule number one. And then if you lift weights twice a week with some degree of consistency and maybe sprint once a week, you pretty much got 80 or 90% of your physical training goals covered. The rest is just sort of, you know, I got to set a record and a personal best or something like that. Although Carrie's been setting personal bests in the gym recently, and I'll let her describe what her, because I'm more the cardio guy and she's always been more of the strength and speed person. What are you doing in the gym, Carrie? Just lifting a lot more weights. Being in Miami, everybody was about the booty. So I was

just trying to build it. So I upped my protein between 100 and 140 grams a day and started lifting heavy or sometimes five days a week. And what differences have you noticed from upping your protein and your weights, especially as a woman? Well, being in my 60s and being able to get a booty was, first of all, really exciting. I didn't think I could still make changes in my body at this age. In terms of weights, personal goals, easily I can hip thrust eight at 360. And that's, for me, I feel really good about that. and so now my latest goal is to bench my weight so I'm at 120 so I've got a ways to go but getting closer have you always lifted weights I always have you always have okay it's hard for me long before I met Mark it's hard for me to do the

cardio I really don't enjoy it Carrie sounds like me that's how I feel too I'm trying to get more into the cardio but I love the weights I feel like though and I don't enjoy it. Carrie sounds like me. That's how I feel too. I'm trying to get more into the cardio, but I love the weights. I feel like though, and I don't know if you both have noticed this, that there's kind of this eye opening happening on social media where women are realizing that weights is a real secret. I feel like it's a movement almost. How do you both hold each other accountable? You know, what's funny is we really don't hold each other accountable. We're both, I think to our credit, we're both somewhat vain about how we look. And, you know, this LGN, Look Good Naked, that I started talking about 20 years ago, you know, it sort of drives a lot of the motivation for getting to the gym and doing the work.

I sometimes feel like Carrie's more accountable to her training than I am to mine. She has a trainer or several trainers. She's got a stretch trainer and a fitness trainer. She wanted to do, tell them about the splits. Oh yeah, I did the splits this year. Okay, I have, I could barely touch my toes a couple of years ago. I'm now doing straddle splits. I work with an 80-year-old contortionist circus trainer. And I can do, I couldn't do it right now. I have to warm up. I have a video of it, but I actually can do the splits now. So I set these

little personal goals that keep me motivated in the gym. And then I have my weight trainer and my stretch trainer and my stretch trainer and then some body workers, like aches and pains. Wait, how do you even train to do the splits? Like what is the stretch that you do? Is it a bunch of different stretches or one? Yeah, he works on me for an hour. So I'll do it a few days a week, two or three days a week. And he's literally just tugging on my legs in all different directions. That's amazing. I used to be able to do the splits. I'll have to try it. Maybe I'll try.

I don't know if anybody wants to see that, but maybe that'll be my next goal. I'd love to see that. What are both of your non-negotiables in the morning that you have to hit? Oh, that's interesting. I've sort of softened my approach to the discipline of life in the last 10 or 15 years. So I'm not as tied to making sure I hit the gym or I go for a fat bike ride on the beach or I go for a stand-up paddle. Or even if I'm hurting, I might even just go for a walk and just get the movement in.

And for me, that's a mid-morning break. So I start, I don't, I'm not an early morning workout kind of person. These people who get up and set the clock for five or 4.30 and get to the gym at five, I'm like, God bless you. You're not doing the Mark Wahlberg getting up at 3.30? No, I'm more when it suits me and when I'm comfortable and when I'm warmed up and when I'm ready for it and when I'm ready for a break. So I do some stuff in the morning and then around

anywhere from 9.30 to 11.15, I'll say, okay, I've got to go find some time to do whatever strikes my fancy at the time. And as I say, it could be any one of those things, and it's not really that I'm beholden to a schedule anymore. I certainly like to mix it up though. That for me is the big thing. I think Carrie's a bit more, she's more regimented. You should see her. Her calendar is so full of workout appointments and stretch appointments and things like that. She's quite accountable for that. What are your non-negotiables when you wake up? I really just want to get some kind of movement in, like him. I want to move. We do do the fat tire bikes on the beach together. What is that? You guys, what is fat tire bike?

So fun. So it's bikes with like the big tires that you can ride on the sand, right? So we ride on the sand. Got like this microphone. Oh, bigger than that. And mine's electric because I can't keep up with him. Otherwise, it's difficult to ride on sand. But I put it on a low level, so I'm still getting a great workout and we're having a

good time. And it's so beautiful in Miami. We really love it. And what about non-negotiables when it comes to night time anything that you guys do that you you go to all the time i would say one of my non-negotiables is sleep i i don't stay up late i mean what's late right like i are we going to talk about two weeks ago and when we saw each other we can't i think we're going to talk about two weeks ago when we saw each other? We can. I think we have this. Oh, we're going to talk about that. We might have the same travel agent.

Let's do a little side tangent on that. We actually ran into you guys in St. Bart's party. Three times. No, but I think that that's so relevant to this podcast because both of us, I think, as couples are of the mind, you are disciplined and then you give a little and you're disciplined and then you give a little. And so it was fun to see, I think both of us let loose because then you go back and you're disciplined again. Right. Like we came off of a 90 day, no alcohol whatsoever training almost, you know, like every week consistently into that.

Right. So when we got out of that, we're like, whoa. That's a contrast. It was a huge, yeah, it was a huge contrast. But I think like that's kind of like our speed. Like we really want to be disciplined most of the time, but we also want to have fun, right? Like I think so many people, they miss the point of life. They don't have fun. They just, they get so fixated on either their career

or their fitness and then they never let loose. And I think like there's, you have to do both in order to have a well-rounded life. Agreed. And, but where I was going with that is one of my non-negotiables is sleep. So we'll be out, but not late. So if it's 11 or 11.30, I'm starting to think about, I cannot abide going to bed after, say, 1, and usually not after 11.30.

So even if it's a night out, I'm already trying to figure out how to start drinking more water and how to wind it down so that when I do go to bed, because I'm going to wake up at the same time. That's the real thing. No matter what time I go to sleep, I wake up. I'm always up at the same time. So that's one of the non-negotiables for me is that sort of paying attention to sleep. And I just don't like the effect of having to take a day or two to recover and be used, you know, not be useless, but have a day like you're out really late on a Friday night and you're not feeling good until Sunday afternoon. That doesn't appeal to me. Sure.

Now I'll have fun on Friday night and I will, you know, I mean, again, the St. Bart's, you know, experience, which is what it ought to be called is, you know, it's a rose all day, it's lunch, it's drink, you know, alcohol at lunch, alcohol at dinner and whatever else you got going on. And then, so, and then day after day after day. So it's a lot of fun while you're doing it. We did it with, we've done it a couple of times. With a group, right?

With a group. Yeah. Same with us. So there's three other couples or eight of us and it's a, and it's good dynamic that way. And it's good to and then everybody does hold everybody else sort of accountable for you know their their behavior and whatever else you know what i find so how you've been talking about health wellness fitness for decades now and

i i get a kick out of watching you on twitter because i just see you he loves your twitter i love i share with lauren all the time i think it's so funny. What things do you continue to see? That keeps showing up. You've been talking about it for 30, 40 years. It's the same stuff. And what stuff do you see in the fads that you're like, that's just incorrect? I guess what I'm getting at is with all the information that's out there now and how many people are sharing all this stuff, that's a tried and true. That's something I've been talking about for 40 years. And that's like, hey, that's just total bogus. You know, I think there's a mindset

that goes with all of this that goes back to my early days of research with the primal blueprint and the idea that not all fats are bad. In fact, some fats are good. The idea that animal protein is the best source of protein. And I mean, I see, you know,

the vegan sort of push or the even more, I think disconcerting is the governmental push toward eliminating meat from the diet. And I'm like, this is unconscionable. It's just not beyond ludicrous. It's just, it's ridiculous. It's unconscionable. It's irresponsible for governments to be doing that. So I don't abide that. And so I will tweet about that on occasion. I don't know, the other day, somebody was, my arch enemy in the vegan community is Michael Greger. He's a MD, vegan MD. We've gone at it for two decades. And he posted some study

about even as much as a half an egg a day or a half an egg a week increases your risk of cardiovascular disease. And I, so I tweeted and I'm upping my egg intake, you know, as of right now, I have fun. That's a platform where I can, you know, start to do little one-liners and zingers and make people even guess sometimes what it is. What's the actual impact of my message. So from a, but from a vegan perspective, maybe this question for both of you i'm assuming if somebody's got a moral issue and it's a religious issue you don't really have a problem but from a health perspective you firmly disagree with the fact that people say meat is poor for you or or

meat is a bad choice for your diet 100 100 disagree with that yeah and even you know even the ethical discussion is sort of it's it bizarre because, and this has become a big point of discussion on the internet now that vegans are responsible for more animal deaths than meat eaters because when you plow a field, you kill millions of voles and mice and rabbits and snakes and frogs and untold amounts of worms and things like that just to make the kale that you're going to have in your salad, right? So be that as it may, I have a lot of vegan friends. I love them. I support them. I try to help them. I don't have a lot of vegan friends. Wait a minute, I misspoke. I have some vegan friends. I try to encourage them to get more appropriate levels of protein because I think

protein is the big, I think that's a big lever that we can all pull in, especially as we get older and especially as we're trying to put on lean muscle and maintain muscle mass, which is the primary driver of health. Keri mentioned that she upped her protein. What are the proteins that you reach for when you're wanting a snack or when you want to have lunch or breakfast? I don't do a lot of snacking. I really don't. And I don't eat breakfast. Intermittent fast? Uh-huh. So it was really difficult and I was feeling really full. So it was kind of hard.

I actually had to start doing a little bit of snacking, but I would just eat a big piece of fish or chicken or beef or burger. And then if I had a snack, I'd have a protein shake and then I'd add cottage cheese or yogurt to it. I mean, it was really, it's almost force feeding myself for a while. It's really uncomfortable, but I did notice a difference in strength and size. I went to a spa, an amazing spa in Switzerland, Cheneau,

and they tested my body fat, muscle density, blah, blah, everything. And I gained two and a half kilos of muscle in six months. By adding protein. By adding protein and lifting heavy weights. So you gained weight, but you felt you looked tighter. Yeah, I felt I looked great. And my body fat was still 19%. Wow. So it didn't go up. And I almost felt like I was force feeding myself. I think I know what spa you're talking about. I've heard about this.

Is this this incredible spa? Oh my God, you have to go. I heard. I think I heard. I think it's the one that Barbara Sturm used to work at before she was doing skincare, maybe. Maybe. They feed you 850 calories a day. It's like a Michelin star restaurant.

It's amazing. And you start your day with a half hour bath with all these jets and then they wrap you in mud and put you on an undulating waterbed for a half hour. And then I, I extended my massage to two hours. That's how I started every day. Wow. Lauren's on her way.

She's on her way. I'm on my way. I'm on my way. And it's gorgeous. It's on Lake Lucerne. Oh, okayerne oh okay well side note you got to write that down for me after what that yeah but i want to add one more thing in terms of saint bart's what i noticed which was amazing with all the partying we did i did not feel bad the next day which has not happened in 20 years because i'm taking, I'm doing exosomes and I'm doing,

what are my shots? Peptides. Peptides. What kind of peptides are you doing? I'm doing NAD. I'm doing glutathione. I took pictures of the bottles. I knew you were going to ask me that.

I will tell you when I'm done. CJC. Yeah, yeah. Four things. Lauren was trying to tell me that I shouldn't do, but the right peptides are good, right? What? This is the only do But the right peptides are good What? This is the only thing I have about peptides

And I feel like you two can tell me if I'm wrong Okay I feel like they give you skin tag Have you guys seen that? What is skin tag? Like the little tags of skin I mean I think that's a very individualized certain things I've never had one

I've not heard that I don't see anything. But I had, no, I just, I do get skin cancer. So when anything looks suspicious, I just went to my dermatologist. I go, are they going to see this on the podcast? They are now. So he does burn anything that looks like pre-skin cancer. But I've had this going on for decades.

And how long have you been, do you both take peptides or just you? A year. And you haven't had any issue? It's been all good? No skin. I did one. What did I do? I did the strength one at one point and then the one for the brain. I had good results. So you didn't feel hungover because- I was not hungover. I had four margaritas one night. I have not had more than

one or two in over a decade because I feel hungover the next day. I realized I couldn't. I actually had four one night and I didn't feel hungover the next day. Something in the air over there? No, it's because I'm doing exosomes, which I do IV exosomes. I did four months in a row. Now, I take a few months off. And next month we're going to go do stem cells. Maybe. We'll see. I'm still doing the research on that. What do you think? Well, I mean, look, I'm on record as being sort of anti-biohacking in terms of particularly the wearables. I'm not into the wearable devices. I don't track my, you know, I don't have an aura

ring. I don't do the step counting, the HRV stuff. I don't do CGM. I mean, I know what my blood sugar is like. So a lot of those things are, are really out there. The one thing I have done over the past decade, and I, and I picked this up from Carrie, she started doing hormone replacement therapy, you know, bioidentical hormones after menopause. And, and she felt better as a result of that. And so I've been doing testosterone, TRT, for about 10 years. And that's sort of the one thing that I do. I've tried BPC-157.

I've tried some of these peptides and I just didn't have any noticeable effect. Is testosterone, just so I'm clear, is it a shot? Is it a pill? What is it? I want to talk to you about this because I think a lot of men are interested in this subject, but a lot of men are not educated and many start too early. Agreed. 100%. And I think it's, and you're the best person to ask this. I think there's a point in your life where it's going to make a lot of sense as you age, but if you're 30, 40 years old, there's probably other things you can do.

Exactly right. So it's one of those things that I would hold off as long as I could until it was really going to have a noticeable, appreciable benefit. So I held off until I was 60 and then I started. And I really didn't have low testosterone for a 60-year-old male. I just am such a fan of carrying an extra five pounds of muscle. Yeah, like why would you not do it at that age? Correct. And to answer that question, because that's a big issue, over the years, so many people have heard, oh my God, you should never do testosterone.

It's harmful. It's dangerous. It's steroids. It's anabolic, blah, blah, blah. It's probably the safest thing a grown man can take after a certain age, at least in my opinion, and I've not seen any research contrary to that. So to the effect of building some extra muscle, having a little bit more energy throughout the day, having a little bit more libido, I mean, all of these things kind of add up to a slightly higher quality of life, which,

you know, at the end of the day, I only do the things I do because I want to feel good. I want to, it's, I don't, it's not about, to me, it's really not about like, am I going to live, you know, 120 years or 160, if you're Dave Asprey, you know, no, it's, I want to feel good for as long as I live, and I want to enjoy the moments that I live. So I'm not like, boy, will I feel good when I hit this number. No, I want to feel good today, and I want to enjoy life today, and I want to enjoy every bite of food I eat today. That's what drives my meal planning. It isn't about mixing macronutrients and trying to throw in some grass clippings into a smoothie. It's about what's going to taste good, what's going to make me feel good, knowing the ingredients are good for me.

I mean, obviously, I'm not going to eat donuts all day long. But every meal is contemplated to be an enjoyable experience. I'm not just eating for fuel. I'm eating to enjoy for the hedonistic appreciation of the meal and my workouts. Most of my workouts, if they're hard, they're short. If they're long, they're interesting and like the bike riding on the beach. Because I spent 30 years as an endurance athlete where all I did all day long was manage pain, manage discomfort. None of what I did as an athlete was ever fun. I didn't play a game. I was

a runner. I was a marathoner, then a triathlete. So I come back to where I am now in my life and I want to enjoy my workouts. I want to enjoy my food. I want to enjoy my sleep. I want to wake up at, you know, at five 30 in the morning and go, oh, great. I got two more hours instead of like, oh shit, I got to get up and get to the gym. So that's kind of what drives my, you know, motivates me to, you know, to craft a life that I'm, that I'm seeking, which in turn comes back to how do I feel? Well, I feel pretty damn good. And just so I'm clear, testosterone, is it a shot? Is it an IV?

Is it a pill? What is it? Yeah, it's a shot. So how often do you have to do it? I do once a week. Oh. Yeah. I do it myself, you know.

You do it yourself. Yeah. Right into the butt. I would do it. So the peptides that you take, are they shots too? Yeah, he does it. Do you have to do it every day? The little ones.

Five days a week. Tiny, tiny ones. On my pellet, my testosterone, I do with HRT replacement, the progesterone, gesturone. Mine's a pellet. And they put it in. They do a little slice, put it inside, butterfly stitch. And they do that every three months. And so do you guys both feel,

it sounds like you do, but Carrie, do you feel better from optimizing with these things? Sex is on steroids. Well, literally. But when I take this pellet, it already was amazing, but taking the pellet is a new level.

Don't get too excited. So where do people go wrong with this stuff? Is it an age thing? Is it just lack of edge? Like where do, where can people go wrong with this? I mean, you know, you brought it up. I think people who start in their thirties, just because it's available and it's pretty readily accessible.

And there are a lot of anti-aging docs who are fine writing script for much younger people. And at that point, you get sort of that, they used to call it bigorexia. You know what that is? You're just never big enough, right? So you start taking your 30s, you get, now you're combining the youth of being in your 30s and the exogenous testosterone with lifting in the gym and you get bigger. And then you think, well, that's big, this is good, but I could get even bigger. And so there's a, there's a tendency to, you know, overplay that aspect of it. You know, otherwise people are doing growth hormone in their thirties and forties, which I think is way irresponsible. I mean, that's, that's a whole different thing that I wouldn't, I wouldn't go there yet yet what do you think about all these people doing ozempic and diabetes medicines to lose weight yeah how could they i don't understand how they could do that so unhealthy

gives me just like the heebie-jeebies a little bit i got a obliterated on tiktok from the the tiktok audience for basically speaking out and saying that i think it's a bad and i didn't at the time like i don't know the medical implications, but I just, my perspective was it just creates another scenario where you can be, you know, more complacent, you know, put in less effort, be more like, it's just not going to create great behavior. It's going to, you know, the food intake is going to be worse. The workouts are worse. What's that thing you said about the muscle though? No, but so, but anyways, Peter Atiyah just came out and was talking to Megyn Kelly and he was saying what he's seeing, and this, you can can see on his Instagram, is that when people are losing weight this way,

that they're losing, a healthy way is to lose like three-fourths fat and a fourth muscle. He's seeing with this stuff that people are losing like two-thirds muscle mass and a third of fat. And so they're getting lighter on the scale, but they're getting fatter actually. And they don't realize that you can't lose that much muscle that quickly. And when you do, it's much more difficult to get it back. And so you, in pursuit of this easy solution, which doesn't require doing the work, look, I've been doing the work my whole life in terms of the fitness thing. So I have a real problem with people when somebody says, you know, I've got this bike and if you wrap your legs up in a cold thing and you ride for 10

minutes, it'll give you the equivalent of an hour and a half bike ride. I'm like, just do the hour and a half bike ride and do the work because something's not right when you're shortcutting some of the systems in the body. I had a discussion this morning with somebody about weight belts. I don't train in the gym with a weight belt because wearing a weight belt might allow me to do more weight, but my goal isn't to do more weight. My goal is to be fit and strong and healthy and balanced. And if I wear a weight belt,

then I'm taking some of the burden off part of my body that ought to be benefiting from the weight. And I'm doing more weight than I could have done without the belt, which, okay, if I'm going for a record, a PR, I guess that's a notch, and that's a bucket list item. But the bottom line is I want to optimize my entire body when I lift weights. And so whatever I'm doing with my diet, I want to optimize my metabolic flexibility. I want to become metabolically flexible. I want to train my body to burn body fat when I'm not doing anything. That's like the

superpower that we all can tap into. And how do we do that? Well, the best way to do that is to, keto is still one of the best ways to do that. So, because you want to withhold carbohydrate, metabolic flexibility is this great state of the body where you can derive energy from whatever substrate happens to be available at the time. If you're doing glycolytic work in the gym, you can burn carbohydrates. You can burn the glucose in your bloodstream. You can burn the glycogen in your muscles. You can burn the glycogen in your liver to fuel the brain. You can burn fat because you're fat adapted and your muscles know how to burn or combust fat. You can burn fat because you're fat adapted and your muscles know

how to burn or combust fat. You can burn the ketones that your liver makes in the absence of carbohydrates. So this metabolic flexibility is an amazing skill that we're all born with, but our parents and the standard American diet kind of screws it up from the get-go by giving us carbohydrate at every meal. And carbs at every meal, we lose the ability to burn fat. The body never has an opportunity to tap into its fat stores and use the fat for energy. And so over time, we not only don't burn off our stored body fat, we accumulate it, but then we're always hungry because we don't know how to burn fat.

The brain is expecting carbohydrate at every meal. And that's where you see people saying, well, I can't skip a meal because I get hangry and my brain stops working. Well, the way around that is to develop metabolic flexibility and to become good at burning fat. And to do that, you have to withhold carbohydrate. Now you either do it by just eating a ketogenic diet, which is largely protein and fat and a little bit of vegetables, or through intermittent fasting. You skip meals. So you go 18 hours without eating. And during that 18-hour window, your body is saying, well, if I'm not going to be getting carbohydrate, if my brain's not going to be getting the glucose, then what the heck? I know how to do this.

And it builds the metabolic machinery to burn fat efficiently, builds the metabolic machinery in the brain to utilize ketones so that the brain can function in the absence of glucose. And so as a result, people can go long periods of time without eating, without getting hungry, because hunger kills everything, right? But when you get metabolically flexible, such an amazing array of opportunities afford themselves, one of which is you do this cellular housekeeping. The body says, well, if we're not going to be eating, let's start to actually consume some of the dead or deficient tissue in our body. So fats that have been damaged get consumed by the body. And it does this cellular housekeeping. You burn off stored

body fats. You trend toward your ideal body composition. You find out, among other things, that you maintain muscle mass easily. You don't get sick and you don't get hungry. It's an amazing superpower. All right. I do not screw around when it comes to protection from the sun. You know this. And recently we went on a boat where we were outside all the time. So I had to make sure that I was giving my kids the coverage that they needed, but also in an efficient, streamlined way, but also in a healthy way. So what I did is I brought Baby Bum by Sun Bums sunscreen. OK, here's the thing. First of all, it's 100% mineral-based, which is awesome. It's also lightweight and not greasy at all. So it comes

out super easy. And I love being able to spray it. It's so much quicker in my opinion than having to put a bunch of sunscreen on them. I carried this in my handbag the whole entire trip. They have all different kinds of products too for sunscreen. They have mineral products, roll on mineral. They also have SPF 30 tinted face lotion, which I love. I love a little tint. And they also have a daily mineral sunscreen moisturizer, which has SPF 30 tinted face lotion, which I love. I love a little tint. And they also have a daily mineral sunscreen moisturizer, which has SPF 30. So the whole line just really has got you covered as a family. They have three different pillars that they really adhere to. And that's sun, skin, and baby.

And here's the deal. It's not just vacation. I like whenever I walk Townsend a stroller to really make sure he's protected. It's very important to have sun care year round and to throw this in your baby bag is a no brainer. Of course, we have a code for you. Use the one-time code skinny 15 at checkout for 15% off your purchase at sunbum.com. This ends December 31st, 2023. Again, the one that I like is the mineral SPF 50 sunscreen spray, and it's also fragrance-free. Enjoy. I started to take my hair thickness into my own hands.

So what happened to me is after I had Zaza, I noticed that my hair would fall out easily. So I'd be like sleeping on my silk pillowcase and I'd wake up and there'd be more hair. So there was like a lot of shedding happening. I would get out of the shower and just notice like when I brushed through it, that a lot of hair would come out. So what I did is I started doing a lot of scalp massage. I think the stimulation really helped with blood flow. And then I also made sure to use like a micro needler around the scalp. And then the last thing I did, and you've heard it here all the time, is Nutrafol. This is the best, in my opinion, hair growth supplement on the market. It's one of the only ones that's clinically shown to improve

your hair growth thickness, but also visible scalp coverage. My ponytail is so much thicker. I just recently changed my hair color to brunette and I just feel like it's so much healthier and the shedding is less and less and less. I really did my research when it came to what supplement that I wanted to use for hair shedding and Nutraful is it. It has three unique formulas to support women through all stages of life. So they have one for like postpartum, one for menopause, everything's natural, drug-free, medical grade ingredients. It's also voted the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement. And you too can grow thicker, healthier hair and

support our show by going to Nutraful.com and entering the promo code skinny hair. With this code, you save $10 off your first month subscription. This offer is only available to US customers for a limited time, plus free shipping on every order. Get $10 off at Nutrafol.com spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com promo code skinny hair. So are you guys both implementing intermittent fasting daily or do you take times during the month where you're where you're fasting yeah i want to know is this a daily practice you said you do intermittent fasting what exactly do you do and i think that this is really good because we've had a lot of people come on and talk from a male perspective i would love to hear from a

female perspective i just don't eat after dinner and then I don't eat anything until 12 or one o'clock every day. And what time is dinner typically? And it can be from seven to eight. If we're in St. Barts, it could be 10, but I mean, you know, normally around seven. And if you stop eating at eight, will you adjust your window to later or do you just always eat at one or 12? No, I usually eat when he's free. So if he has meetings or podcasts or something, I'll eat at noon with him or push it back to one if we can. But it's a daily practice with both of you where you're- Oh, I don't get hungry in the morning anymore. Yeah. I mean, it's weird that for the longest time, what you heard was breakfast is the most

important meal of the day and And don't skip breakfast. It'll compromise your metabolic health. Your metabolism will drop. And you want a fast metabolism. Well, no. First of all, you don't want a fast metabolism. You want an efficient metabolism. This mantra about consuming breakfast.

If you're not hungry, why would you eat if you're not hungry? To me, it makes no sense. I agree. I don't't eat until i'm hungry but here's my question for you guys if you're training really hard in the morning i still don't eat before i train is that okay i never do same so what if i train i've always been told i don't need to portray any poke holes in this all day long because i'm not a doctor and i don't know this i've been told that i need to eat right after my workout to build muscle. Is that not true? If I'm lifting really heavy, I typically come home and I'll eat within 30 minutes to an hour. That's fine. And there's no hard and fast

rule. I'm seeing a lot on the interwebs recently about the pendulum swinging back. Thomas DeLauer just did a thing about not working out fasted. I work out fasted every day. I love it. And I'm good at it. So do I. And I can go- Do you drink coffee when you're working out? Not when I'm working out, but early in the morning. Okay. So you have your coffee. So I'll have coffee in the morning. And then if I work out at 10, 30, or 11,

I can go out in the hot blazing sun in Miami and do an hour and a half hard bike ride and be fat burning efficiency and, and all of the things. Look, the, the, because I don't train hard every day, I don't need to replenish my glycogen. I don't need to eat. This idea of eating before a workout, it doesn't really contribute much to the workout. I agree. Your muscles already have glycogen in them.

It's digesting. So how, say you guys train really hard at like 1130 and you do like a weight workout, when you'll eat around one? Yeah. I mean, my trainer's usually at 11. I might stretch before that or go for a walk with a friend. What do you typically break your fast with? Salad and protein on top or protein and grilled veggies on the side.

And if you're going to indulge in something, what does that look like? Is it like, are you saving it for wine? Are you doing bread? What's your indulging? I don't really like alcohol that much. If we go out, I'll have alcohol. I never drink alcohol at home. Bread doesn't make me feel good.

I guess I'm intolerant because I'm not celiac and I don't test allergic to bread. But I actually, it hurts my stomach, so I avoid it. That would be something that I would eat if I could as an indulgence. But I really, my indulgence might be a flour tortilla, not a flour, I'm sorry, like a siete. Like a siete. Yeah, like an almond tortilla or a corn tortilla. That would be my indulgence. Or if someone else. Like an almond tortilla or a corn tortilla. That would be my indulgence. Or if someone else orders dessert, I might have a few bites. I would rarely ever

order it myself. That's my indulgence. I've also heard that if you're not going to fast and you are going to do breakfast, that you should load a shitload of protein for breakfast and not all the carbs and all the stuff that people typically load. If you're going to do breakfast and you're not going to- Oh, yeah. No, I would agree with that. I mean, look, you go back and look at what the advertising world has spun, how that spun cereal and waffles and pancakes and all of this really high glucose breakfast to start your day and then top it off with a full thing of orange juice. It makes no sense in the context of either health or energy.

And so typically what has happened over the years is people would have breakfast, get a blood sugar spike, and then the insulin responds to the blood sugar, the glucose in the bloodstream, sucks it all out, tries to drive it into the muscle cells. By the way, if the muscle cells are full, it just drives it into the fat cells. And then it's so overreacts that then you get hungry because now your blood sugar drops. And because you haven't become metabolically flexible and your brain doesn't know how to work on ketones in the absence of this glucose that you've just spiked and then overcompensated for, the brain goes,

where the hell's my glucose? Time to eat again. And so that's where the five small meals a day comes in. Back in the old bodybuilding days, you had five small meals, two hours apart because you didn't want to go into cannibal mode and cannibalize your muscle tissue. It was all predicated on being a good sugar burner, but being horrible at metabolic flexibility, being horrible at being able to burn fat in the absence of carbohydrate. So if you were going to coach someone, or both of you were going to coach someone on where to start, like say somebody's never done it before and they want to jump in it, would you tell them to do it the way that you do it, or would you tell them to kind of ease into it?

Well, I have a book called The Keto Reset Diet, which came, it's already seven years old now, but it was one of the first real sort of examinations of how to implement keto as a strategy, as a technique, as a weapon in your arsenal to attack body fat. And as such, we talk about first eliminating the crappy stuff. So eliminate the industrial seed oils, eliminate the sugars, the sugared beverages, the sweetened beverages, eliminate the processed grains, the pies, cakes, candies, cookies, pasta, bread, cereal, and then focus on healthy sources of protein and vegetables. And in the early days, you can do as many vegetables as you want. You can do protein, just don't let yourself get hungry, but get your body used to just having quality protein, quality fat, and some amount of vegetables.

That's sort of phase one. Then to get really keto, you would drop some of the carbs that you were eating, and that would be kind of focused largely just on the protein and the healthy fats and a little bit of vegetables. And then phase three would be starting to see how long you could go when you wake up in the morning before you feel hungry enough to have to eat, right? And that's really the indicator that you're becoming good at burning fat. If you can wake up in the morning and go, yeah, I feel pretty good and I'm not hungry,

and then you go till 10 or 10.30 and say, oh, I'm starting to get hungry. Okay, then that's the time to start eating. But eventually you get so good at this metabolic flexibility that, you know, like I have to remind myself to eat. Some days I'm going strong and I'm working out and then I'm working and I'm doing stuff and I'm like, Jesus, it's 4.30 and I haven't eaten today. Oh, well, I'll just go till dinner. I don't need to eat now. And dinner is kind of a ritual for me. So I don't want to, I wouldn't want to eat at 4.30 and then think, well, I've spoiled my appetite

for dinner. So. What is your dinner ritual? Do you guys eat together? Do you go out to dinner? Like what is, what is typically dinner for you? We always have dinner together. And when we moved to Miami, it was out every night. Friends, just fun. And now we've decided, well, he's kind of decided, and I agree, let's eat home for maybe five nights a week. Just because it was too much eating out? Yeah, it was too much, too late. And then I'm drinking if I'm eating out. So now we try to go out maybe twice a week. And then when we stay home, I'll make a salad and a vegetable.

And then he'll grill a steak. And then I might throw, I don't know, a piece of salmon or chicken in or. When we moved here, because we moved from LA, similar to when you guys moved, it was a toss up between here and Miami. And I thought to myself, I'm like, I don't know if I can be disciplined enough over there because there's so much going on. There's so much, but we just got back from it. It's a beautiful place. And every time I go over there, I'm like, shit, did I make the right choice or not? I don't know. I mean, it's definitely a fun city. And you've got to have some discipline there.

You've got to have discipline. And I would say, on your behalf, that having kids makes it more challenging. The discipline is even more challenging. Because we raised our kids in Malibu. And Malibu was great for us. But we were just sharing the other night that Miami has given us a renewed sense of youth. We hang out with a younger crowd. There's a lot of energy in it. We were in Malibu a few days ago and we're like, God, can you believe we made this

move five years ago? And we'd still be doing the same old crap, riding up and down PCH, not having met anybody new. I mean, we've met 50 awesome people since we've lived in Miami. And we've traveled around the world with 10 of them. And to your point, I think having kids here is great. I wasn't going to do it in LA for sure. I think it'd be harder for us in Miami right now. But who knows? It's not, you know, we bounce around.

What are your supplements? We'll start with you, Keri. What are your supplements that you go to that maybe are just some stuff you take on a day-to-day basis? We don't take a lot of vitamins. I do take magnesium at night because it helps me sleep. What's your favorite brand? I think it's a Whole Foods brand. I take vitamin D. I take Ander Lesman's. What does he call his company? Procaps. Procaps Labs. I take a D-Mannose, which is also another brand from Whole Foods, because I tend to get bladder infections. Oh, does that help with that?

Yeah, I don't get them if I take it every night. Wow, that's a good tip. Yeah, because I, yeah. I used to get bladder infections all the time after sex. Yep, that's when I get them. And you know what I don't get them anymore? I use coconut oil lube. Really?

I'm going to send you some. It's this coconut oil lube, and the coconut is an anti-fungal. We should disclose that it's a company we developed. But we'll send you guys some. I'm telling you, I have not had one UTI since using this. Really? It's amazing. There's a lot of trial and error.

Because I don't like to get up and pee every time. I just want to fall asleep in his arms. We spoon when we fall asleep. We spoon before we wake up. That's cute. Yeah. It is cute. I want to have sex and spoon and go to sleep.

I don't want to get up and pee. So I found this D-mannose, which doesn't let the bacteria supposedly stick to the sides of your bladder. So I take that every night and I don't get one. That is a really good tip. So you're preventative about it. Yeah. Okay. Well, I need to look at your D-mannose and I'm going to send you guys the coconut oil lube. I think you'll like it. So I want to shift gears now because obviously-

I really, really quick need to know Mark's supplements really quick. Yeah. So here's the thing. I used to make supplements. I still, I mean, Primal Kitchen still makes supplements. And I made some of the highest potency supplements in the world. I take his collagen. I take your collagen daily.

I love your collagen. My damage control master formula was the highest potency full spectrum multivitamin, multimineral antioxidant ever created. It was 12 capsule a day super supplement. And it did that for years and years. But as I've gone further and further down the path of more carnivore-like, I'm sort of buying a little bit more into Paul Saladino's concept that you really- He's coming on the show soon.

Cool. That you don't really need to be supplementing if you're getting good vitamins from the quality meat that you're eating. So I've cut way back. Now, I do take vitamin D. I'm out in the sun a lot, but I'm not a good converter of sunlight to vitamin D. That was one of the things I learned from my 23andMe experience, right? So I take supplemental vitamin D because I am a fan of having high levels of vitamin D. And then I take collagen. And I started with another company's collagen brand years ago when I had a very severe Achilles tendinosis in both feet. And it was to the point that I didn't think I was ever going to be able to sprint again. I play ultimate Frisbee and you have to sprint in ultimate Frisbee. So

I started taking 30 or 40 grams of collagen a day. And despite orthopedic surgeons saying I needed surgery, I had to have it scraped down and they had to put it in a cast for nine, you know, three months. And that was nine months of rehab. I did it on my own and I literally healed this major issue that I had. So I became a huge fan of collagen. How many scoops is that of yours? So the scoops that we, we have 10, 10 grams per scoop. Okay. Yeah. So I might do, I might do 20 grams in a bike water bottle before I, before I ride on a, on a hot day

and I'll put some element in it too. You know, the element tea and I make a kind of a cool little drink there and slam that down and make sure I have the collagen coursing through my system as I'm moving my legs around the pedals. Michael, for sure going to copy that. Yeah, for sure. I'm going to copy that for sure. With this shaker. I take it in my coffee right now. That's what I do because I don't do any sweeteners.

I do too. I put it in my coffee. Okay, really quick. What brand of meat do you like? You have to tell me really quick. I don't have a brand of meat that I like. No brand. No.

I mean, we literally, we buy a lot of different types of cuts of meat from a lot. I mean, I go. Grass-fed, organic. It's good meat. Yeah. Good sources. You make sure it's good sources. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. But I mean, I shop at Whole Foods and I get the best cut that they have and I'll buy 30 pounds of it at a time because I don't like to shop. I don't like to shop. So when I do shop, I'm like, we're getting this done. And when I buy it, it's the wrong kind. Uh-oh. You just put it in the freezer?

I know Michael wants to switch gears, but I just want to ask one more question about supplements. Do you guys like or have you heard about NAD? Yeah. I do it. I shoot myself five days a week. Five days a week? I shoot. He does.

Wait, so that's. Wait, no, that's wait no wait nad nad is the peptide thing no any no any it's not a peptide but i do it with my peptide you do it with the peptide you don't do it through the iv you do it that's interesting that you do it five days a week because i really want to do it but i'm too petrified of the iv does it hurt your stomach when you shoot it just like a little needle? No, I don't even notice it. I get a little rush, maybe like a little niacin rush, if you know what a niacin rush

is. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. So is the reason that you don't do the IV because you get sick to your stomach? And you can get, you can feel it in your heart and your chest. A lot of people have not had good experiences from doing the NAD IV. Yeah, I have a rough time with it.

I do it maybe once a month. Did you feel it in your heart, your chest? Yeah, I get it in my stomach. Sometimes you get congested. It's a hard thing to get through. Does it feel in your chest afterwards or just during, they say? I have never done it because I do it five days a week. And it's such a small amount that I don't have any side effects aside from a little rush that is gone in two minutes. And do

you notice the difference? I find it, I used to sleep an hour longer than him and sometimes I get up before him now, which is a miracle. In 30 years, I've never needed less sleep than him. I just feel like a very quick, right, in the mind. I had to go do this board presentation and I did it right before, and normally I have to refer and look at everything. I was just like, it was like limitless. You know, I was like, just being able to wrap it

off the top of the head. Okay, that's interesting. You should just test it one time and see. No, I'm gonna try it her way. I'm gonna ask where you get your NAD. Go ahead, I know you wanna switch gears. So obviously one of the main reasons you're here and that we're here,

something we've never talked about on the show is foot health. And this has been your greatest passion now, or it has been for a while, as you told me privately. Let's talk about what you're doing right now and why, because I think- And how this even started. Tell us about the conversation that you guys had in the kitchen or something. Well, this goes back a long time because I was a runner in the 60s and 70s, and I ran in really thin, flat shoes before Nike even existed. And it was an interesting experience to put in those sorts of miles and then have it be the feet that told you when it was time to stop.

Not the knees or the hips or other parts, the Achilles or anything else. It was the feet that said, yeah, 40 miles a week is enough. Then along came Nike and Adidas and Puma and all the other shoe companies that started creating these big, thick, cushioned running clogs and enable people to put in a lot more miles. So people started running 70, 80, 100 miles a week, 120 miles a week. But what happened is over time, they put the miles in and for better or worse, their cardiovascular got better, but it didn't mean that their feet were stronger or more efficient or more effective. And what was happening is they were bypassing all this amazing information that the feet

want to give the rest of the body. So we are born to walk barefoot, right? We're evolved over millions of years with these amazing organs that are our feet that have 10,000 sensory inputs on each foot that tell us the second we, as we take a step forward, by the time we've weighted that foot, the brain already knows how to bend the ankle, how to flex the knee, how to torque the hip, how to contract certain muscles to absorb the weight and the shock. Well, modern footwear, whether it's running shoes or just campus casuals or fashion wear, modern footwear completely negates all of this amazing information. And so over time, people get foot pain, they get bunions, they get neuromas, they get neuropathies,

they get Achilles pain issues, they get plantar fasciitis. And they're wondering, like, I'm not stretching off. Do I have to start stretching? When in fact, it's the fact, it's that the feet are so cramped in these little narrow casts that we put them in, in the name of fashion. By the way, don't stop wearing the heels. They look fabulous on you, Lauren. But, you know way, don't stop wearing the heels. They look fabulous on you, Arne. But they're not good for the feet. So my interest in foot health and foot comfort goes way back.

I was an early adopter of a five-toed shoe that came out almost 20 years ago. I thought it was one of the greatest inventions ever. The world should be using this. The world should be embracing this concept. The problem was they didn't really make a shoe that was attractive, I thought. And I thought it was deficient in certain areas. It didn't have enough padding. So a couple of years ago, I said, I need to fix this.

I've been looking for a shoe my whole life, and I have not found one, a shoe that I feel comfortable in, that is functional, and that looks good. It's like you can have two of the three, but you can't have all three in most of the footwear. a shoe that I feel comfortable in that is functional and that looks good. Because it's like you can have two of the three, but you can't have all three in most of the footwear. So I set about with my son, Kyle, who's my co-founder of this new company, to develop a shoe that combines the best attributes of a five-toed shoe with a slightly more cushiony sole, midsole, and with an attractive upper. And it's like a five-toed shoe meets Allbirds or Nike Free or something like that.

With the idea that you want to splay the toes. There are lots of companies that make a wide toe box shoe. That's great. But you really want the toes to move up and down as well. We call it articulating. You want the toes to move up and down as well. We call it articulating. You want the toes to articulate. Whenever you step on an uneven surface, you want a smile to come on your face because it's literally massaging your feet.

Like you're feeling, now the information is going to your brain to tell you how to weight the foot. Now it's, you know, whether you're hiking or running or even walking long distances in a city, you want that input. You want that sensory input. You want the toes to flex. You don't want them to be in a city, you want that input. You want that sensory input. You want the toes to flex. You don't want them to be in a stiff shoe. So we've introduced this new company.

It's called Paloova. We've got 150 influencers who are wearing them now and raving about them. And people say, this changes everything. I'm wearing them right now. Yeah. We're all wearing them right now. Yeah, we're all wearing them right now. Exactly.

Did a three-mile walk today yeah i'm gonna show mine on the youtube yeah yeah look at those are those cute or what huh they're so cute and they're so comfortable i would show mine if i could get my leg especially because i have such bad plantar fasciitis like this is it's foot health you're so right it's it's so important right and it's so overlooked it's like i would say the modern footwear is to foot health as the standard American diet is to overall metabolic health. It's like we developed this system that's completely bypassed and destroyed the natural desire of the body to be strong and lean and fit and happy and healthy and productive and loving because for whatever reason, the convenience of food makes it, you know, and the crunchy,

salty, fatty, sweet part of food, you know, makes it attractive. Well, the footwear industry has kind of said, you know, if you have foot problems, maybe we're better off giving you either surgery or giving you an orthotic or, you know, some sort of a riser in the heel and giving you two-inch thick cushion shoes like Bosu balls to walk around on all day, when in fact that's not going to fix the problem and that's not going to create the sort of sustainable comfort that you would get from having strong, healthy feet. My body worker told me about orthotics. I got these custom-made orthotics i was

so excited and he's like no this is this is training your feet to want this every single time this is not good so to your point i think that this is just so smart what you guys are doing now that you've been wearing i mean you've been like sorry the whole time in st barnes you're wearing them but how long have you been wearing them consistently? Two years. Two years. And what changes have you guys noticed? Well, so for me, I've only worn minimalist shoes for the last 15 or 20 years. So my feet are strong. So for me, the number one thing I noticed was comfort. So in some of the original five-toed shoes that are so thin, like literally two or three millimeters thick. I could work out in the gym all day long, but I couldn't go for a hike, say on pavement, right? I couldn't go on a hard

service. It's too thin. It's too thin. So these are nine to 10 millimeters thick, which is literally one centimeter of thickness. It's not like an inch or an inch and a half. It's about a third of an inch. And that's enough to feel the ground underneath, but also enough to cushion so that when you walk long distances. We were in the South of France last summer and I brought prototypes with us. I put 650 miles on one pair, the pair that you're using, not that exact pair, but the style that you're using, and walked anywhere from six miles to 14 miles a day on concrete, on pavement, on uneven surfaces. And it was amazing. It was just a whole different

feeling. So my feet are strong from years of doing this. What I was looking for primarily for me was comfort and to be comfortable doing this and to feel compelled to want to walk. I mean, to me, that was the real aha moment was I know, because I used to, I was a runner. I hated walking. Like walking's a waste of time. I wrote about it and I talked about it, but in France, we did, I don't know, 240 miles a month average of walking.

And Carrie, did you walk in the shoes too? Oh, I did. I really like it. And I don't have, I have like the beginnings of plantar fasciitis. Okay. So, and this is really, these have helped my feet and also sleeping in a sock that doesn't let your toe fall forward because you want to keep your foot up straight. You don't want the covers on it and making your toe go, because you shorten all this,

which makes it hurt more on the bottom of your foot. So you really want to keep a sock that keeps your foot like that while you're sleeping. And then wearing these, yes, it feels much better. A sock. So is there a specific brand of sock? Something I ordered on Amazon. I can send you the link. Okay.

And so can you just sleep with no sock and make sure your foot is up or no? Sure. But this just holds it up and your toes aren't covered. So I need to be wearing these shoes and sleeping with a sock. You know what I like about these shoes? Time. I, when I run out the door, Michael knows this, want to slip something on. I don't want to tie a shoe up. I'm sorry. I just don't want to. I feel like it's a waste of time. This I just slipped on. It's easy. It's convenient. I got to go. So that's what I really like.

And I like that I know my foot is doing well too in it. The Skinny Confidential Him and Her podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. What we love about the year 2023 is that everything is accessible to literally almost everyone as long as you have a smartphone. And that includes online therapy. If you've been a listener of this show for a long period of time, you have heard so many high performers, athletes, authors, entrepreneurs, just best in class performers come on this show and talk about the importance of therapy. Lauren and I were skeptics in the beginning of the show. And now after talking to all of these different kinds of people and performers, we've realized how important of a

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wellness drops and the beauty drops. You can't go wrong. And right now, Saqqara is offering our listeners 20% off their first order when they go to sakara.com slash skinny or enter code skinny at checkout. That's sakara, S-A-K-A-R-A dot com slash skinny. And you get 20% off your first order. Sakara.com slash skinny. So many women in particular, men too, but are wearing toe spreaders now, toe spacers. I wear them all the time. Okay.

That's what this does all day long. The difference is your toe spacers, you're only going to wear barefoot around the house. When I meditate for 30 minutes. Right. This, now you're going to work the toes. So not only are they spaced out and spread out, but you're going to work them mildly. We tell people, look, and I have to be very careful to say, we're not giving medical advice here and fixing- No one's a doctor.

No one's a doctor here, blah, blah, blah. Because I wanted comfort to be my primary driver here. But when you work the small muscles of your feet, it feels good. Your feet get stronger, your ankles do get stronger. And in order to work those small muscles, people say, well, does this have an arch support? Well, no, it doesn't on purpose because most people who wear these supportive shoes, their arch gets atrophied. It doesn't, it's not called upon to work like your physical therapy. The body worker says, you know, why would you, why would you put something under your arch to, to, to give it the day off? You know, you want to work it. If you go to the gym and you say, I want bigger biceps, you don't say, well, you do that by wearing a device that could prevent you from moving your arms.

Quite the opposite. So, you know, we wanted to create a shoe that you could wear not just in the gym. And that's why we have so many styles. So it's, we say a paluva for all occasions. The company is P-E-L-U-V-A, a paluva for all occasions. The company is Peluva, P-E-L-U-V-A. A paluva for all occasions. So when you understand how comfortable these are and how great they feel and how good they are for the muscles of your feet, you'll say, well, what about when I'm at work? Well, I'm wearing a leather lace-up pair right now, and I can't do the splits, so I won't.

Michael and I work on splits. You guys work on splits together. I've got to get Carrie's trainer to do it. And we've got some that you would wear out to a fancy restaurant. I dress up in some of these. You saw me in St. Bart's wearing them on different occasions. On different occasions. There's a plethora of different occasions. That's a good way to say it.

There was the Bagatelle pair. There was the Nikki Beach pair. Dancing on the table with me riding in on a motorcycle pair. Yeah, yeah. Was that your birthday? Yeah, we were there for my birthday trip. Yeah. Yeah.

And then we just kind of. We had some fun. Happy belated birthday. Yeah. Thank you. We definitely had some fun on that trip. Yeah. You know what was brutal about that day, just as a side tangent after that, we still had

to wake up right in the morning, bright and early with the children. So it was like. Yeah. The children were right there. Painful. It was fun at the time, but then I was like, oh my God. So what mistakes are people making when it comes to their feet? Give us a couple of mistakes that you just think are not healthy for foot health. Well, I think depending on orthotics as a fix for some deficiencies in your foot strength is a big one that people are doing. I see a lot of people getting surgery that I think maybe could be put off for a while

by doing some foot exercises or wearing some shoes that allow for more toe freedom. A recent study came out and it looked at plantar fasciitis and people had plantar fasciitis and it went in for surgery. And what the surgeon found, he took a piece of the plantar fascia and examined it under the microstope and discovered that the itis, itis means inflammation, should actually be called an osis, plantar fasciosis. The osis part of it means dead tissue. And it's because the circulation has been cut off. Because when you look at a foot, so much footwear cramps the, if this were a foot and this is

the big toe, it cramps the big toe into the rest of the shoe. When in fact, this toe has an abductor muscle that wants to pull it out and spread it out. And that's where the circulation gets improved if you're allowed to spread it out. And that's why walking barefoot is so beneficial to just about everybody. But when you confine it to a space, a narrow space in a great looking Italian shoe, you run the risk of cutting off the circulation to the rest of the foot that way. I will say, on the one hand, we're supposed to be walking barefoot. We're designed to be barefoot, but then our ancestors evolved this mechanism in the context of dry dirt and matted grass and moss and pine needles and some rocky surfaces.

And here we are today with asphalt and pavement and hardwood floors and tile and marble. And so walking barefoot, while it sounds primal and it sounds ancestral, isn't even that practical. So you do want a little bit of cushioning in a shoe to kind of make up for the hardness of the surfaces. Because of what we've done artificially. Because of what we've done artificially. So that's kind of our workaround is we'd say go barefoot, but even that isn't really good advice for most people who are on hard surfaces all the time. Like I would get a bone bruise if I walked on hard surfaces all the time. So the effect we wanted to create with Paloova was we wanted the effect of walking barefoot on a putting green.

So if you can imagine, if you play golf at all, you imagine walking barefoot on a putting surface. Just that little amount of cushioning. I mean, I think this idea is absolutely genius. I think it's crazy to me that people haven't put more of an emphasis on foot health. You walk on your feet all day long. And most people also put more pressure on one foot. Like I only have plantar fasciitis, that shouldn't be called that, in one foot. So I feel like that's another thing is like what I feel with these shoes is it almost teaches me to even out my balance, if that makes sense. I mean, the more you can connect with the earth and get the feedback from the surface you're

walking on, absolutely. The more the rest of your biomechanics comes into play. If you're wearing, you know, cushioned, thick rocker shoes that bypass all that information, you're basically tromping around in these bricks that only your feet only or your your body your legs only start to work from the ankle up michael was complaining for for years and years about his back and we found out it was because he wears cowboy boots all the time which are so uncomfortable in my opinion i still wear them once in a while well you're in austin no i love a cowboy boot don't get me wrong but you wear them like all the time and you were driving in them and it was a whole thing yeah yeah so like since then i've had to like really, I mean, I've corrected it since,

but it's been a lot of like doing stuff like this, barefoot, working out without shoes, you know, getting out of the boots a little bit more, but it was a problem for a while. And I was looking, I was like, man, I'm 35 and I'm having back problems. That's not good. No, not good at all. And, and, and you're in good shape. So imagine how many, you know, tens of millions of people suffer from those sorts of things, thinking my back hurts because my back is not strong, when in fact it goes down that posterior chain all the way to your connection with the earth and how you're moving about this world, not getting that sensory input that tells your brain by the time you weight that foot, tells your brain exactly how, again, how to bend the ankle, how to bend the knee, how to flex the hip, how to twist, how to turn, how to load the muscles.

Do you guys wear them weightlifting all the time? I do. I'm going to try them tomorrow weightlifting. Yeah, I'm going to do it tomorrow too. Great. I'm going to try them and see how that goes. I feel like I normally lift weights in socks. Well, you know, because when we lift weights or we're squatting, we'll take the shoes off because I don't want to be squatting or doing any kind of that stuff in those kind of, to your point, bricks, right?

Yeah, I'm going to try these tomorrow to lift weights. I think this is really going to help me. Because I think that's a mistake people make too in the gym is they wear these kind of like padded bricky shoes and then they're doing squats or deadlifts or whatever and they're not on the surface. Well, that's that point about you want to be getting the most benefit from the work that you're doing. And anytime you bypass that, either by wearing a weight belt, just because you want to do more weight versus not wearing a weight belt and saying, okay, I'm going to stop at this weight because my entire body is into play. And whatever weak link I have is causing me to say, that's my max for today. You wear a weight belt and all of a

sudden you bypass that information. Now you add 50 more pounds. Well, okay, that looks good on your resume, but is it serving you in that exercise? I push a sled with the ones that you're wearing right now. I mean, that's the workout pair. It's called the strand. And we have them in black and pink and white and gray and blue. And the strand was designed for the gym, for long periods of walking on concrete. But because you can splay the toes out with it, you can get a firm footing if you're doing deadlifts or if you're doing squats or if you're on the leg, on the press machine, right? If you're're doing planks your toes are flexing it's not like you're on the tippy toe end of a stiff shoe makes so much sense you're bringing your toes into play you're actually you know working your toes out while you're doing a plank yeah no it's interesting to say because

like when i tell people oh i take the shoes off you know to squat they kind of look at me strange i'm like it's because i want it to exactly do what you're talking about which is i want to be able to feel the ground and spread the toes out when i'm lifting because it feels strange to me to be in a clunky shoe and you make fun of me for picking things up with my toes and now you're saying that you spread your toes too so now he makes fun of me because i'm really crafty with picking things up that's a great skill by the way yeah i know so don't talk shit do you hear what they're saying i'm gonna practice mine i'm a master toping yeah but but i mean i i look at i look at the feet and and you know how we we so overlooked it imagine being like you have these hands and you're a concert pianist and then somebody says okay i want you to play a Rachmaninoff piece

with oven mitts on. That's true. And so you're like, well, I can't do that because I need the sensory input. I need to know what's going on. I need to articulate everything. So that's what we're trying to do here. We're very pleased. Do you know who Chris Gethin is?

Influencers. He's a bodybuilding, weightlifting guy. Maybe. I think I've seen him on Instagram. Yeah, yeah. And he's a huge fan, and he's now posting stories of him in the weight room training with these and getting the sort of benefits that we're… Well, I'm going to try it tomorrow and see what I think. We'll post some stuff tomorrow.

So… I would be… We're going to do a code and a giveaway at the end of this episode for this, but I have to ask you both, like before you go, I have to ask you each what your favorite Primal Kitchen thing is. For me, I'm going to say, what do you think I'm going to say? Well, I hope you say, not hope, I would think you say ketchup. Ah, you know me so well.

That's exactly what I would say. I give it to my daughter. Kids, kids. It's the only ketchup. Anyone who's listening, don't throw away every other ketchup in my opinion. McDonald's needs to replace the ketchup packets. We got to evolve. Yeah. It's the best ketchupald's needs to replace it the ketchup packets we got to evolve yeah it's the best ketchup ever i was looking at the ketchup i was like hey we were just partying

in st bart's with the guy in the ketchup bottle no michael michael when i first met him was like eating heinz oh i was a i was a mess and i completely made over the ketchup is so good is that what you knew i was gonna say that yeah and it's mine too i'll carry you you say what what your favorite is i really like the mustard few the mustards, and the garlic aioli and the chipotle mayo. Just a few things. Oh, the chipotle mayo. How involved are you day to day now? Are you still drumming up the recipes?

No, no, but I'm involved. I mean, I'm still with the team, and I'm still the face of the brand, and I'm still a cheerleader at big events. And I'm definitely involved in taste testing new products. We have a pretty robust R&D program now. We have 85 SKUs. So we're out there with that stuff. But to your point, I mean, I would say the ketchup is the thing I'm most proud of because it was a problem that went unsolved for so long. I mean, every mother who knew anything about health was like pulling her hair out. Like how can, how come they can't make, you know, a natural, organic, great tasting, unsweetened ketchup for my kids. And when we solve that problem and that

year we won the, the Nexty award, which is the big award at the biggest trade show in the world, Expo West. Yeah. And it was the, it was the popular choice award. Um, show in the world, Expo West. Expo West, yeah. Yeah. And it was the popular choice award. And I was like, okay, this really is a game changer for moms. Not only because they now have a ketchup that they can put on the stuff they used to put ketchup on, but now they can use the ketchup as a gateway drug to other foods that the kids aren't necessarily liking. 100%. Put ketchup on some broccoli.

You can put it on anything. You can put it on the fries. It's the only ketchup by far. And it sells out. Yeah. Sells out all the time. I'll order it in bulk on Whole Foods because it sells out real quick. Yeah.

Big fan of the ketchup. Okay. So I would love to do a code. Can we do code skinny to shop for the shoes? Absolutely. Okay. You guys, if i were to start with a shoe if you want to go classic carrie's wearing the white and the black i can

do the yeah show show so hers hers are primarily black the white and black i know actually it looks good with the black and white stripe they almost look like chanel you know what i think i bought the white but i might have to get another pair now. Oh my God. Here he goes. We'll fix you up. Okay. So she's wearing a very classic. It's giving like

old Hollywood vibe shoe. I love it. But I'm wearing the pink ones right now if you want to go like louder. And we'll do a code, code skinny for, and you said 20% off?

Yep. 20% off. And then we're going to do a giveaway. So all you have to do is tell us your favorite takeaway from this episode on my latest Instagram at lauren bostick and then make sure you're following the brand what is the handle mark well we're we're we're paluva on instagram but if you want to go

order it's paluva.com p-e-l-u-v-a and did we talk about the derivation of the name? No, we didn't. We should. Okay. So we went to come up with a name for my new company and Primal was taken. So we're going to call it Primal for something like that. Go figure. So I own every other Primal in all of the 20 different trademarks on Primal. But anyway, so we made up a name. We looked at different languages. And in Portuguese, PE is foot and luva is glove. So it's foot glove. Cute. Yeah. And I think it's a nice name. We looked at different languages and in Portuguese, PE is foot and luva is glove. So it's foot glove. Cute. Yeah. And I think it's a nice name and you see the logo. I think it wears

well. If you both could leave our audience with your best health tip advice, what would it be? I just wanted to add one more thing about Paloova. Yes. I'm going to be in track suits and t-shirts with the Paloova logo. That's going to be kind of a juicy meets Adidas. Cute. Anyway, that'll be out soon, so I'll send you some. So just a backstory to this. When we met, I was a consultant for Active Sporting Goods, a sportswear company. And how long have you guys been married?

Real quick. 33 years coming up. Congratulations. We've been together 35. Wow. Good for you guys. I still like him. Carrie and her sister had a bodywear company. They were making some of the original sewn in bra workout tights and things like that. Before anybody did it. Before anybody did it. Yeah, yeah. This is literally back in 1987, 88. And so we met at a trade show at Action Sports Retail, which is a big athleisure sporting goods trade show in Long Beach in 19, I think, 88 at the time. So that's when we met. So anyway, so now we come full circle. And as we're launching this line of footwear, my son, who's my co-founder, Kyle, and I are like, well, we need some branded wear to kind of complete the ensemble.

And that's where Carrie comes in. And so she's drawing upon her old clothing design days. That is so cute. You guys have such a synergy going. Instead of asking you what your health tip is, what is the key to a successful marriage? How about I leave you both with that? You can't look at each other. You go first.

That would be my degrees in psychology. I would say treating your husband like a king. Good advice. Perfect advice. That's so much work. We can end it on there. It's not happy wife, happy life. It's happy husband, happy life it's happy husband happy

so we've been through we have been through some tough times two in particular that almost broke us up and each time we got back we got back we never really left but we got back on track and and it got better and i think with couples you see so often that it's so easy to go, oh, fuck it, I'm out. I'm leaving and not working on it. And we know so many people who are our age who regret not having taken the extra effort and extra step to work through it and fix it. Now, yeah, you have to have, the variables have to be there. You have to still be attracted to each other. And money falls into play sometimes. And there are a lot of, you know, children, there are a lot of issues that come into play. But at the end of the day,

working through, you know, communication, clearly, I mean, as Carrie would say, I was like, she got a degree in spiritual psychology about 15 years ago. And that sort of changed everything. But wait, I want to say something. A friend of mine, this really changed it for me. A friend of mine said a few years ago, she said, Carrie, you married a coach and a private trainer. You are now with a king. You treat him like a coach and a private trainer.

Treat him like the king he is. And I was like, oh, wow, that rings true. That's great advice. Wait, I want to know, I might go off on a tangent here, but I want to know why you getting a degree in spiritual psychology 15 years ago changed the game. What does that mean?

Explain more. Well, I learned to take responsibility for my upsets and not blame him on him. And I learned to... Oh for my upsets and not blame him on him. And I learned to- Oh, that's so hard. Like if I'm upset about- Here, I'm going to keep you around a little longer. If I'm upset about something he did, I'm only upset about the thoughts I'm telling myself

about what he did. It's not really what he did. Like if he forgot to, I don't know, open the door. Oh, he's not a gentleman. He's this, he's that. How could he do that? Or it's just, it's like what I'm thinking about him. And I remember one time I came home, my friends and I were talking about, oh, beauty, beauty, this, that. I go, God, Mark never says I'm beautiful. I wonder if he thinks I'm not beautiful or he just doesn't voice his opinion. And so I came home and not being angry or anything, just asking him,

do you not find me beautiful or do you just don't say it? He's like, well, I tell you how hot and sexy you are all the time. What do you mean? I go, oh, that's how you say I'm beautiful because that's how you say you're attracted to me. Anyway, so the next week I got flowers to the most beautiful girl in the world. And the next week I got flowers. The most smoothie. For three years until we left Malibu and moved to Miami.

I got flowers every week. I have told you 15 times in a subtle way that I like Austin Flowers. Well, we're coming up on time. I said, Austin Flowers is really cute, giving you 600 hints and you just go uh-huh and change the subject about your hairline or something you need to pay attention i would like flowers once a week treat him like a king and he'll give you flowers i treat

him like a king but i i can't give it the whole it's not full king it's like 50 well we let's see what happens with full no but i think you, but I think what resonates true there, we haven't been together as long as you guys, but Lauren and I are committed to working. I mean, we've been together now almost 20 years. Wow. But we've had the ups and downs, but I think we always get back to the point

we're committed to working through the issues. And even people are aging. We see so many people kind of like throw away a good thing because they get their egos bruised and they're not willing to sit down and like talk it through and communicate and meet on equal ground or come to the other side of the table. So I think it's great advice. What do you think though, you said you have a lot of couples, friends that wish that they had stuck it out. Like when you see someone who's single later on in their life, what are other things that they wish they did? What are things that you hear all the time? You have most of the single friends. Well, I think they really don't think they chose

wisely. I think a lot of women want to get married, but they don't think about staying married. And they just didn't have a good picker. They sort of went with their emotion instead of going, what are the things that really work for me? Or they just settled for what they could settle for because they wanted to check the box of being married. Yeah, or they were getting to that age, they wanted kids. You know, I told him after dating for six months, if we're not moving in the direction of getting married after a year of being together, I'm gone because i'm 33 and i want a family he acted he ran he would have run quicker if he had these shoes no but you know but to her point i mean i'd been in in several you know monogamous relationships that got to that point but none of them ever went

none of them ever grabbed me by the lapels and go, look, motherfucker. It was like, we're either going to do this or I'm out. I was usually the one that was out. So it was, to her credit, she's like, yeah, this is what it's going to be. You guys all like a woman that knows what she wants. Let's be honest.

You guys all like, you guys like a little dominance. You really do. I know Michael does. That's not good. I mean, there's a lot of issues that I probably have to work through myself. Who doesn't like a strong confident woman?

I could be a pushover. Personally, I wouldn't want to not be with someone like that because I feel like I would just kind of run through it. Right? For lack of better words. Run over it. Okay. Code Skinny, you guys go shop on...uva.com you both are lovely where can everyone find you on social media personally if they want to reach out to each of you i'm mark sisson primal on instagram and follow him on twitter too twitter

yeah mark underscore and then carrie what are you are you Carrie Lynn Sisson perfect you guys are great come back anytime we just got some marriage advice I love having people on like subtly manipulate Michael with like the your beautiful

flowers each week and then it's like waiting for my flowers and he started it up again last month in Miami I'm waiting for my crown on my pillow case thank you both

thank you for coming on thank you so much. Mark was kind enough to do a giveaway with Paloova. We are giving away five pairs of Paloova shoes. All you have to do is follow at where Paloova and tag a friend on our latest post. You guys, on that note, I hope you love this episode. Go back and definitely listen to Mark on the Skinny Confidential Him and Her Show. It tells his whole story about launching Primal Kitchen. That is episode 208. With that, we'll

see you on Friday with a totally different one of our new partners, one that I am so excited about, Masterclass. Lauren and I have been huge fans of Masterclass for years now. We've both actually taken multiple classes, which I'll share in a minute. But for those of you that are unfamiliar with Masterclass, let me share a little bit more. Masterclass is accessible anywhere you get your online content, your phone, your computer, the web, smart TV, basically everywhere. They offer classes on a wide range of topics. Let me name a few of their most popular courses. First, Chris Boss teaches you the art of negotiation. Jon Kabat-Zinn teaches mindfulness and meditation. Gordon Ramsey can teach you how to cook. Matthew Walker can teach you how to get better sleep.

Bobby Brown can teach makeup. They have something for everyone. The class that I took a while back was done by Bob Iger, who teaches business strategy and leadership. It was a phenomenal course. Lauren has taken a class by Anna Wintour and also Chris Jenner. They literally have something for everyone. Any kind of interest that you may have or want to get better in, there's something for

you. What I love about it is members can explore at their own pace, and each class has downloadable materials, guides, recipes, and more. There are hundreds of them. Both Lauren and I are personally masterclass members, and we go back to it here and there, especially when we get a new class that piques our interest. So check it out. They continue to add classes by best-in-class performers, entrepreneurs, authors, and more. I highly recommend you check it out. Get unlimited access to every class. And as a Skinny Confidential listener,

you can get up to 35% off for Mother's Day. Go to masterclass.com slash skinny now. That's masterclass.com slash skinny to get up to 35% off for Mother's Day. Masterclass.com slash skinny.