The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Paul Saladino MD On Food Truths, The Carnivore Diet, & What Processed Foods Do To Our Guts & Overall Health

Episode Date: June 19, 2023

#580: Today we're welcoming Dr. Paul Saladino to the show. Dr. Saladino is the leading authority on the science and application of the carnivore diet and animal-based diets. He has used these diets to reverse autoimmune issues, chronic inflammation and mental health issues in hundreds of patients, many of whom had been told their conditions were untreatable. Today we sit down and have a conversation about a different take on health, what the carnivore diet is and what exactly it includes, and Dr. Paul gives us insight into how he feels that vegans are going about their health in the wrong way. We discuss the misconceptions surrounding a predominantly meat-based diet, and he explains how the media has created a fear around animal protein and squashes the argument surrounding animal-based farming VS plant-based farming. He also gets into veganism, why it isn't sustainable, why humans need animal protein for overall health, and he gives tips on how to grocery shop for the most nutritious and sustainably raised animal products. To connect with Paul Saladino MD click HERE To connect with Lauryn Bosstick click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE Subscribe to our YouTube channel HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential. Use code SKINNY at heartandsoil.co for 10% off your order. This episode is brought to you by Sakara Sakara delivers science-backed, plant-rich nutrition programs and wellness essentials right to your door. Their ready-to-eat meals are nutritionally designed to deliver results—from weight management and eased bloat to boosted energy and clearer skin. Go to Sakara.com/skinny or enter code SKINNY at checkout to receive 20% off your first order. This episode is brought to you by Hiya Health Hiya Health fill in the most common gaps in modern children's diet to provide full-body nourishment our kids need with a yummy taste they love. Go to hiyahealth.com/skinny to receive 50% off your first order. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace From websites and online stores to marketing tools and analytics, Squarespace is the all-in-one platform to build a beautiful online presence and run your business. Go to squarespace.com/skinny for a free trial & use code SKINNY for 10% off your first purchase of a website domain. This episode is brought to you by Branch Basics The Branch Basics Premium Starter Kit will provide you with everything you need to replace all of your toxic cleaning products in your home. It’s really a no-brainer. Go to branchbasics.com and use code SKINNY for 15% off their starter kit. This episode is brought to you by Vroom You can buy a car from Vroom entirely online. So, next time you need to buy a car, just grab your phone, go to Vroom.com, and check out thousands of cars. This episode is brought to you by SKIMS SKIMS is the solution-oriented brand creating the next generation of underwear, loungewear, and shapewear for EVERY body.  Get free shipping on orders over $75 at SKIMS.com Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to The Skinny Confidential, him and her.

There are compounds called PFAs, so parafluoroalkylated compounds. These are forever chemicals now in the popular press. They're in plastics. You get a coffee from Starbucks. It's in the paper cup. That paper cup is lined with plastic with PFAs in it. So you'd have a piping hot coffee in a paper cup that's lined with plastic and you go to Whole Foods and they have this paper, this sort of brown paper carrier for your Whole Foods hot bar thing. You think you're doing the right thing. It's lined with plastic and that can have PFAs in it. You go to Whole Foods and you get the butcher paper. It's lined with plastic that can have PFAs in it. So at this point, when I talk about this, people become overwhelmed and kind of throw their hands up, but knowledge is power.

Know better, do better. And like every intentional choice that you make is a step in the right direction. Welcome back to the Skinny Confidential Him and Her Show. Today, we have one of the most requested guests of the year, Paul Saladino, MD, formerly Carnivore MD. This one has been requested by so many people. So many people have wanted Paul to come on the show. We finally locked him down. We had to reschedule a few times and finally got him in the chair here in Austin, Texas to answer everything that you guys have been wanting to know about Paul, his lifestyle, the carnivore diet, all sorts of things, honey, his lifestyle. What else did we talk about, Lauren? He told me to put beef tallow on my face, which I did in studio. I put it all over my hands and on your face. And I have to say it made us really glowy so much so that I went out and bought my own

beef tallow. We were rubbing beef tallow on our faces the entire time. So yeah, this one's jam-packed. It's got everything about seed oils, processed foods, what your poop says about your gut health, misconceptions about high animal meat and diets, the benefits of meat and organs, all of this stuff. I'm sure this episode, you know, Paul's a controversial guy. He says a lot of different things. I'm sure it's going to be met with some resistance. So yeah, Paul is one of those characters. He came hot onto the scene. You've probably seen him in the grocery stores going up and down the aisles talking about which

foods are healthy, which ones aren't. I'm sure this episode, like many of ours, is going to be met with all sorts of different perspectives. I also, after this episode, have to say that I now drink raw milk. This episode changed my opinion. So that was really cool to be able to sit down and talk with him and actually have my opinion changed. I'm drinking raw milk and I'm also, wait for it, eating liver. Here's the deal with liver. Paul taught me on this episode, you only need a little bit once a week. And I ate liver last week. Lucky you, Michael. And I was bouncing off the goddamn walls. Yeah. and you haven't shut the fuck up about it since. Anyways, with that, for those of you who are unfamiliar with Dr. Paul Saladino,

Dr. Saladino is the leading authority on the science and application of the carnivore diet and animal-based diets. He has used these diets to reverse autoimmune issues, chronic inflammation, and mental health issues in hundreds of patients, many of whom have been told their conditions were untreatable. Today, we're sitting down with him to have a wide-ranging conversation. With that, Paul Saladino, welcome to the Skinny Confidential Him and Her Show. This is the Skinny Confidential Him and Her.

Yeah, both my babies, we're just going to hop right into it. I ate a lot of meat, a lot of bone broth, but so much ancestral blend, a lot of organs. And I feel like, I mean, I had such great pregnancies. I think that was a big part of it. I don't doubt it. I mean, this is so evolutionarily consistent. One of the things that I was never taught in medical school was anthropology. But if you go to cultures around the world, this is what they do.

You know, I went to Tanzania. I spent time with the Hadza, some of the last hunter gatherers left on the planet. When a woman's pregnant or wants to get pregnant, they feed them organs and meat. This is like, this is, we've known this. This is human wisdom that's been forgotten. And it's especially, like you said, especially for women, it's been kind of programmed out of us and women, especially. Totally. I think where I know what you're talking about, there's an intuition. Like I was at, I don't know if you ever went in LA, there was this place called Belcampo. It's not open. I know it.

Amazing meat. And there was a piece of liver on the table. And I'd never had liver before in my life. But something intuitively told me to eat the liver. So I ate it and I was bouncing off the walls like crack cocaine. And I was like, wow, my body was telling me I ate it and I had I was bouncing off the walls like crack cocaine and I was like wow my body was telling me I wanted it I ate it and it just gave me all this energy I want to talk to you and I really wanted to have you on because like you just said there has been a big push on social media with veganism especially with women how do you start that conversation in a way that's one, respectful towards vegans,

but also informative? So vegans, they're so right about their intention. They want to do well, right? The intention is harmless animals do more good in the world. That's great. I want to do the same thing. And I think that they're going about it all the wrong way, right? Because if you break it down at every level, I think that it doesn't really hold up to intellectual scrutiny. So if you start with the health level, because we're talking about the health of humans, the health of women and men, fertility, whatever we were trying to manifest in our lives, whether it's clear skin, weight loss, energy, libido, fertility, all these things, you can see that there are unique nutrients in meat that you just cannot get from plants. You just see that there are unique nutrients in meat that you

just cannot get from plants. You just can't get them from plants. And so where does a vegan get creatine, for instance, this nutrient that many men know about, but women don't necessarily know about. But creatine is essential for muscle recovery. I mean, if a woman is doing Pilates or yoga or a man is lifting weights, they know about creatine. But again, like you get it from meat and animal products. It doesn't exist in the plant kingdom. It doesn't exist. And it's been associated with improvements in intelligence. So you can take vegans or vegetarians who don't have much creatine in their diet, and you give them five grams of creatine per day. And then you retest them in terms of card sorting tasks and memory tasks, and they get smarter. So creatine is this central

nutrient for humans. It's probably the single most studied nutrient in terms of ergogenic supplements, which is a fancy word we use for like muscle building and recovery and even for brain health. And again, it's not present in plants. And that's just the first one. We've got carnosine, carnitine, anserine, taurine, vitamin K2, B12. The list is so long. And then you look at the bioavailability of minerals, for instance, magnesium or zinc or iron. So many women are anemic or they're subclinically anemic.

They don't have enough iron because the iron in plant foods is not an organic form of iron. It's not heme iron, which is an iron in sort of this porphyrin ring, which is a fancy word for basically the middle of your hemoglobin molecule. The hemoglobin is this porphyrin ring, which holds an iron. And the human body is sort of built to absorb iron in that fashion. So there's all of this sort of story and history written into us as humans that we've been prioritizing meat for our whole evolution. And you're right. It's been programmed out of us through vegan documentaries and people believing or hearing a story, which I think is false, that meat is not good for you or not good for the planet. But when you really look

at it, it's so nutritive for us and it has so many essential nutrients that allow us to thrive. I mean, that's what you were saying, that you felt better with it. I want to go back with you just real quick. I mean, and I feel like now, especially over the last two or three years, I see your stuff everywhere. You've done an incredible job getting yourself out there and like really kind of like educating people online. And I, I don't, I'm sure you've been doing it for much longer. It's funny. People talk to us and think, Oh, I just started seeing your stuff. I'm like, Oh, we've been doing it for like 13 years. But I started seeing your stuff start popping off maybe like two or three years ago. And now I see you everywhere probably because I'm looking at this kind of content. But for those that are unfamiliar with you and your platform,

maybe a brief background and your credentials and how you kind of got into this space. Yeah. So I'm a traditionally trained physician. I went to PA school first. So PA is physician assistant. And I worked in cardiology for four years. Then I went back to medical school. So I went to medical school like one and a half times because as a PA, I saw that the medical system wasn't really working to address the root cause of illness. And I wanted to be able to do that. And PAs, physician assistants, nurse practitioners do great work, but oftentimes they're sort of beholden to the intentions of the physician that they're working with. So I went back to medical school at the University of Arizona, got my MD. Oh, wildcat, huh?

Yeah. Same with me, Harvard of the desert. But I didn't go to medical school though. I was studying something else. Tucson though. Yeah, Tucson. But then I did residency at the University of Washington in Seattle. And the whole time I was in medical school and residency, I sort of knew that I wanted to do something aimed at root cause medicine. I was just, I don't know. I think that I'm more of an engineer in my mind than a doctor. And I'm fascinated by the way things work. And it's not interesting to me when you can give someone a pill and it affects a symptom, right? So you have a headache, you take Tylenol. That's not interesting to me. What I want to know is why did you get the

headache in the first place? Were you dehydrated? Is it a food allergy? Did you not sleep well? Did you mess up your circadian rhythm? I want to know the root cause. And the same thing for me. So I had eczema growing up, all in my fingers, my elbows, and I had asthma. These two conditions associate together. They're called atopic conditions. Atopic dermatitis is eczema and asthma. And my dad was a doctor. My mom was a nurse practitioner, but they didn't really have the training in their history to ask, why is our son having eczema and asthma? The subtle, not so subtle propaganda given to doctors and physicians and nurses is, this is just bad genetics, which is, in my opinion, completely wrong. This is where medicine is doing people such a disservice. So it's not that your child has eczema or you have

eczema or psoriasis or any medical condition because you have bad genetics. I believe 99% of the time it's because there's a discordance between how you're living your life and what your body's expecting. And I focus mostly on food, but environment makes a big difference too. So I went back to medical school to really have the credentials and the ability to do that on my own. And then along the journey, I sort of took this left turn because in my residency, I had a horrible flare of eczema, like really bad, my whole body on my elbows. I remember I was on a date with a woman in Seattle and she said, what happened to your arms? And I was too embarrassed to tell her it was eczema. And I told her I'd fallen in a patch of poison oak. That was what it looked like. And so at that point, I got really fed up with

what was going on in my life. And I was eating a healthy diet at the time, but that was more paleo. I was eating salads and nuts and seeds and fruit and meat and eggs. And I think I was taking some kind of mushroom extracts. And I said, you know what? I've heard about this thing called the carnivore diet. I'm just going to do that, get rid of everything except meat and see if it helps my autoimmune issues, which were eczema at the time. And lo and behold, it did, but there's been a whole journey. And we'll talk about that because I ended up reincorporating some plant foods later, but that was the first sort of light bulb for me. Wow. Elimination diets,

being intentional with your food is hard, but it can be very powerful for people who are not finding improvements, especially in their autoimmune diseases. So since then, after residency, I got board certified in nutrition as a physician. And then I got really interested in this path and started doing mostly education. And so now that's what I do. I do social media, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, podcasting. It's been a fun journey, but I never expected to be this kind of doctor, quote unquote. Have you healed your eczema completely? I don't see any. Oh yeah. And what about asthma? Oh, it's gone. What's the root cause of asthma? Did you find that out? I think it's the same. So my high level idea is that these autoimmune diseases are primarily triggered by our food and that there's so much mechanistic evidence for this and it starts in the gut.

So what happens is if you look at someone with multiple sclerosis, for instance, which is a demyelinating process in the brain. So your neurons in your brain are wrapped in this glia and this myelin sheath. The glia make this myelin sheath on the neurons. And so if you look in the brain of someone with multiple sclerosis, you find immune cells that are having a reaction against that myelin and demyelinating them. But you can actually tag those cells and look at where they've come from, and they've come from the gut. And so when you look at someone with type 1 diabetes, which is where the immune system attacks the pancreas, you find immune cells. And where

are they from? They're from the gut. So there's so much interesting evidence in medicine that these autoimmune diseases begin here. They begin in our gut. And so it's this, I think that there are these foods which are so interesting to look at because some of them are considered healthy. Many of them are processed, ultra-processed foods, but some of them might even be considered healthy that can trigger the immune system, the majority of which resides around our gut, around our intestines. We never think about all the magic that happens between your mouth and your butt when you poop or whatever. And that, I think, is where most of this autoimmune illness begins. And so it's about calming that immune system and figuring out how to interact with

your immune system that's in your gut. What is this perfect poo? Tell us what the perfect poo is. Have you heard of ghost poo? A ghost poo? No, tell us about a ghost poo? Tell us what the perfect poo is. Have you heard of ghost poo? A ghost poo? No, tell us about a ghost poo. Tell us about all the different kinds of poo. We were working out today and I was saying that the way I think about it is like, you know, if your dog goes and he's not sick,

goes to the bathroom, he doesn't need to like go and clean himself up. You don't have to wipe. Yeah. Yeah. So explain that to the audience. Well, I mean, that's just kind of this funny term for every once in a while.

I mean, as a guy, you know, you go poop and you just don't even have to wipe or you wipe and there's nothing on the toilet paper. But why? I think it doesn't always have to be a full ghost poop. But if you're pooping and there's a lot of stuff on the toilet paper or you really have to clean your butt or you have to get in the shower or use a bidet to clean your butt. I love that we're talking about this on your podcast, by the way. That's indicative of something going on. And I think most of us know this. We don't talk a lot about poop. Maybe you guys talk about poop more than I think. Oh, amazing. I try not to, but I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm not like pooping in front of my husband. Trust me. I keep things sexy. I like that. But I, I do like, I talk about it in general. But your point is, is like, if

you're, if you're having those kinds of, if you're having to clean up incessantly, there's probably maybe an issue. There's something going on. And that was, we were literally talking about it at the gym. I was like, hey, you never see an animal have to like clean themselves up. It doesn't. They're not like, where's the Kleenex to wipe my ass? When you eat a lot of protein, it is a ghost poop is what you're saying typically. Well, I think when you eat foods, it doesn't have to be protein. You can also eat, in my view, fruit. And if you do things that aren't irritating your eat foods, it doesn't have to be protein. You can also eat, in my view, fruit. And if you do things that aren't irritating your gut, and it doesn't necessarily mean it's just meat. I eat a lot of fruit, honey, things like that. We can talk about it. Dairy, raw dairy,

which is a whole interesting conversation. Then when the gut is not inflamed, the quality of the poop is different. That's the centerpiece of this conversation. And when the gut is inflamed, everybody knows their poop is different. How is your poop when you eat a really, really hot, spicy meal? You feel it. Your poop is kind of inflamed. You can feel it in your butt. It hurts the poop. Well, that's because that spicy food is irritating your gut. We know this. I mean, spicy food, people love it. And they get really triggered when I talk about spicy food. I'm triggered right now. I love spicy food. I didn't know that it's bad for you. It's been shown in cell culture to really cause leaky gut. Fuck.

I literally can take a habanero pepper and eat like ghost pepper. I can eat it with my bare hands. Well, good. Maybe don't go to the bathroom in front of me. I think we should title this episode how to get a ghost poop with Paul. I have like we, you know, typically we run these things like right off the cuff. We do a little prep. We have a lot for you.

And I think there's so much ground we can cover. And I'm trying to think about the best way to format this because this is a fascinating topic to many, but staying on the topic of, you know, meat versus no meat diet. Why? I mean, and at one point I know you've recently rebranded and you, at one point we're carnivore MD, but now just Paul Saladino, which I want to talk about, but why do you, so the pushback that you might have against people that have eliminated meat from their diet completely, why would you maybe tell them to think about reincorporating? So like we said earlier, I think the beginning of the conversation is empathy. And I think that a lot of people have eliminated their meat from their diet for the right reasons. They were being

intentional. I love it when people make intentional food choices, because I think the hardest thing, we were at HEB last night filming content. And I think the hardest thing, we were at HEB last night filming content. And I think the hardest thing for me is when I see people who are not intentional with their diet at all. They're just sort of going about it as a zombie. They're just grabbing chips off the aisle and not even thinking about it at all. So I love it when people are vegetarian or vegan because it means they've made an intentional choice. They've said, I'm not going to eat this food. Great. That's step one. Step two is making sure that you are making that decision based on the proper information. And that's where I want to add to the conversation and hopefully help make people curious and allow them to think, am I making this

decision to eliminate meat from my diet based on the proper information? Or did I watch a vegan documentary on Netflix, which may or may not be the full story? So that's what I hope to bring to the equation is there's a lot of evidence that meat and organs, especially, which we can talk about things that have really been left out of the human diet are so beneficial for humans. Yeah. I went to dinner. I was just in New York city yesterday and I was at dinner the night before and I was sitting with someone, I won't say who, and they were telling me that they eliminated meat from their diet within the last two years. And I was like, I just asked him curious. I don't, I don't care, but I was, you know, and I still ordered a steak. I said, why, why? And they said, well,

the daughter showed me this documentary on Netflix and was really passionate about it. I said, well, do you feel, do you feel better? Do you feel different? We working on a health condition. And it was really like, no, but after seeing that and being told, and we're talking about somebody that's almost like 55 years old and has been a mediator throughout his life. And that was kind of the explanation. And to me, it just sounded strange because I was like, well, you've got that one piece of information and have kind of disregarded all the rest. And if it's a moral issue, I don't care if it's a conscious, but it was just literally because of that thing. And I just thought it was kind of strange. It's difficult because not everyone

is a doctor and can go to PubMed, right? Sure. Not everyone can go to the internet. I mean, not even, I mean, you can go to Google Scholar, but the internet is a strange place now, right? I mean, social media companies definitely lean left. So your media is going to lean left. You're not going to see a study on CNN or even probably on Fox News talking about the benefits of red meat. I mean, the FAO just came out with something that said that meat is essential for optimal human health and provides unique nutrients. You're not going to see even a study on any of those shows saying that exercise could be beneficial, right? So like if they're not telling you that, then you're definitely not telling you about the diet. Yeah. Or vitamin D or any of these things. And so there's

just no lifestyle stuff on there unless it aligns with their overall narrative, which is that meat is bad for the environment. Therefore, you should not be eating it. I mean, one of the people on my team was just showing me something. Eric Adams, the mayor of New York, was bloviating about, we know that meat is not good for humans. And we know that plant-based diets are better for health and the environment. And I just thought, we know? That is far from settled. That is a very interesting conversation. And here's this guy sort of crusading. Isn't it true though, and you are the perfect person to ask this, is that it's, someone told me this, so this could be wrong, that veganism and plants is actually hurting animals more. Isn't there something, can you

explain that? Yeah, yeah. So we talked about this a little bit earlier. So when someone makes this intentional choice to be vegan or vegetarian, great, great first step. We can go back to the health issue, but let's just put the health issue aside. Let's talk about environmental issues or ethical issues. I think a really laudable thing that vegans and vegetarians may believe is that they don't want to cause excess suffering in the world. Great. What we understand as humans, and this is a very interesting thing for most of us that didn't grow up in the woods, is that in order for something to live, something else must die. This is just the way life works. And it's kind of a hard thing that we wrestle with as kids. Like, I don't want to hurt anything, but this is the way of life, right?

There's an interesting woman named Leah Keith, who was a previous vegan. She became a meat eater. And she tells this story of having a garden. And she wanted to be a vegan. And she had this garden, but she realized that to have a garden, she had to kill the slugs because the slugs were eating her lettuce. And she had to put in manure or animal products to get the plants to grow well. And so she realized, look, manure came from an animal that didn't have to be killed, but the bones and the calcium that had to come from an animal. And so there's a cycle of life and death and you're going to kill slugs to even create the plants. But let's just think more broadly about plant agriculture. How do you grow plants? How is kale grown or spinach grown? It's grown in a field, probably in the Central Valley of California or

somewhere, that was at one time trees. And at one time, there were voles and mice or rabbits living there with snakes and beetles and bugs and birds in those trees. And so in order to get to that land to be able to grow plants, you have to cut all that stuff down. Then you have to till the soil. And when you till the soil, you destroy the topsoil. So this is kind of boring soil, you know, science, but the soil is a really interesting ecosystem. Like our life science in the eighth grade, there's all sorts of things in the soil. There's all sorts of bacteria and fungi that are working together. There's earthworms. And when you till the soil, you release all the carbon dioxide in the soil. It just goes up into the atmosphere. So you're emptying the soil or the topsoil of the carbon dioxide. You're sort of destroying the soil. One way to

kill ground and make it very bad for planting in your garden at your house or to grow plants is to till the soil. So at this point, you've leveled the trees. You've killed trees, you've displaced birds, potentially killed rabbits and voles and anything else living in the soil. When you're tilling, you're killing the things in the soil. Not to mention then harming the things that eat those things. Exactly. So think about the thousands, the tens of thousands of lives that are lost in the creation of a field to grow plants. And then you're growing the plants. Hopefully you're not putting pesticides on those plants, right? And if you are putting pesticides, is it glyphosate or some other pesticide, which is water soluble and leading into the water table and is ending up in our water table. So now you're harming everything downstream of that, whether it's animals, anything else in the life cycle that is eating those animals is

going to bioaccumulate the glyphosate. It's going to end up in our water supply. So unless you're purifying your water, it has pesticides and glyphosate in it. And then you might have to put nitrogen fertilizer back in the soil because without animal input into soil, you will quickly deplete the nutrients required to grow those plants. So this has been happening for generations. And if you talk to any farmer, I'm good friends with Will Harris, who runs White Oak Pastures in Georgia. And I've been to that farm. It's so fascinating. I mean, the 1930s and 1940s, these sort of fertilizer salesmen made a killing because they came with this nitrogen fertilizer that was discovered sort of in the World War II effort, I believe. And it just allowed plants to grow, but it's a fake

solution. It's not actually the nutrients that animals put back in. But what they do at White Oak is they have cows on the land, right? See, what people don't realize is that when you have animals living on the land, you create a fertile soil and plants that grow just mightily. They grow so well. That's how the grasslands in the United States were grown. Millions of bison pooping and peeing and walking and pressing their poop and pee into the ground, which moves all the nutrients back into the soil. It's a cycle. The ruminant animal, which is an animal with cloven hooves, like a goat or a cow or a bison or something, eats the grass, which humans can't eat because of the silica.

Grass is not a food for humans. And then they cycle it back into the ground. So none of those nutrients are lost. They're putting it back into the ground and they actually increase the carbon in the soil. So they're sequestering carbon into the soil, which is kind of where it belongs. So there's a real difference between plant agriculture and animal agriculture. And what people also fail to appreciate is that

the way to have healthy plants is to put animals on the land because the poop and the pee from animals is what makes the soil healthy. And then you get amazing plants. The grass at White Oak Pastures is nuclear green and it's neon green. It's the brightest green I've seen. And there's bugs and birds. And when they move the cattle, I got to see them move a thousand head of cattle from one field to another. These cows are so excited.

They just run into this field and it's just all grass that's regrown over the last few weeks. It's just like a buffet for them of the best, most evolutionarily appropriate, healthy food for cows. And they just run in and they all spread out and they start eating this grass.

And then there's birds and bugs. It's just like a, it's just the way life is supposed to be, right? It's mirroring the way that these ruminants have moved on the land. So there's a real stark juxtaposition between what happens when you grow plants and when you can grow animals if you do it correctly. Does that make sense? It makes a lot of sense. I've never heard it explained like that. It's very interesting. Yeah. So from a moral standpoint, even if you are growing plants the way that we do now like there's something is dying and i think so like the underlying vibe of the self-righteousness because there is a little bit of self-righteousness is can sort of be eliminated now after learning that yeah and look you're gonna have to kill one of those cows to feed a person. But you think

about how much nutrition comes from one single life of a cow who has the end of its life. I mean, every animal on that field is going to die at one point, either by old age or if they're in the wild and it's the bison cousin of a cow, it's going to get taken down. I think people also forget when things get killed in the wild, it's not like people talk about being humane. Right. Have you ever, I mean, if you've ever seen predators kill prey, it is, I mean, I had a dog, unfortunately, passed away. And it was a long time when I was a kid, but a bunch of coyotes got into our yard and they, it wasn't like a humane kill. Like they ate this thing from the ass up while it was still alive. And like, that's how they kill in the wild. It's not a nice way to go. I would argue that

it's more humane sometimes if a hunter takes out an animal that's getting older and maybe going, because what happens is these animals age and they get old and they get slow and the pack kind of leaves them and then predators come in and they eat them and they do it in a very violent, vicious way where they suffer. Yeah. And the way that, so there's a couple of ways that cows can be raised. If we talk about cows and the best way is the blueprint of white oak pastures and other farms that are regenerative doing it that way. And they're raising the cows on the land. They're rotating fields.

They're only eating grass from the day they're born. I mean, I guess they're eating milk from their mothers, but grass and milk, what they're supposed to eat. And then when they're harvested, when they're killed, they're done in a very humane fashion. There are ways that cattle ranchers do this that are kinder, quote unquote, to the cattle. And that may sound crazy, but what happens is you lead the cattle into this area where they're kind of, they're sheltered. It's kind of like a security blanket and they don't freak out. They're just, they're in a paddock where there's supports on both sides and then they use a bolt gun and their life is

over in an instant. It's essentially like a hunter killing an animal with one shot with a rifle. And look, it sounds crazy and we don't want to believe it, but we have to go back to what you said. There's always death to support life. And so I think that just gives us an imperative as humans. If I'm eating any food on the planet, whether it's a piece of kale or spinach or a cow, I should understand and appreciate that and kind of do the best I can in my life to honor that cycle because I will be a part of that cycle at some point in my life. I think people envision the way like some humans die of old age where you go peacefully in your sleep. It's like, That's not how it happens in the wild. They go and a pack of wild animals literally tears them apart limb from limb while they're still breathing and living.

That's just how it goes. That's the cycle of life out there in the wild. Exactly. If someone's listening and they're vegetarian or they're vegan and they want to dip their toe into eating more meat, is there a way to do that or can they just rip the band-aid off and start eating meat and they'll be fine? I think that this is a really good question. One of the things that's interesting about the human body is that when you stop eating meat, some of the digestive enzyme in your stomach may change and the acidity may change a little bit. I think people run into this little bit of a vicious cycle because zinc is one of the minerals we mentioned earlier that's much more bioavailable in meat than it is in plants. And so if people are

just eating plant foods, they may get a zinc deficiency because there's not really much bioavailable zinc in any plant food. I was a raw vegan for seven months, 15 years ago. So I remember being in this world. When I was a raw vegan, people said, oh, you have to eat pumpkin seeds. Okay. Pumpkin seeds are probably the only source of zinc in the plant kingdom. But the problem with pumpkin seeds is all that zinc is bound up in things like phytic acid and oxalates. These are big molecules that chelate the zinc. They bite the zinc and they make it very poorly bioavailable. This is a whole separate conversation about the lack of bioavailability of minerals in plant foods. The reason this makes no sense to me, and I just think about what we had access to as we were evolving. If you're telling me that I could develop a zinc deficiency 200 years ago,

and the only way that I could fix that is if I wasn't eating meat, is I could go and scrounge around and find pumpkin seeds to fix it. It doesn't make sense to me from an evolutionary standpoint, because what if I didn't have access to the pumpkin seeds? I just develop a zinc deficiency. And you really wouldn't even fix it because there's not even that much bioavailable zinc. So your immune system gets worse. Your body gets worse. And you need zinc to make stomach acid, to your point. So the problem is that people who are vegan, when they try to transition to meat, they have to do it slowly. So you eat a little bit of meat and you get some zinc and then a little more meat, you get some zinc because you could be zinc deficient and that could lead to a condition called hypochlorhydria, which is low stomach acid.

So all sorts of things get better for people when they start eating meat. But I think to your point, do it gradually and see how you feel. And even maybe start with something like organs or the desiccated organs that I brought. These are capsules that are organs in a capsule that could be nutrients, but they're small doses. Let's stay on this for a second. In your opinion, if you had eliminated meat from your diet outside of a potential zinc deficiency, if you couldn't supplement with pumpkin seeds, what other things could you potentially become deficient in? And what is the manifestation of becoming deficient in things like a zinc or a whatever else you're going to name right now? Right. So you hit on zinc. So you could get

stomach acid problems. You could get immune issues because your immune system, when you're zinc deficient, wounds don't heal. For those who are watching, I should probably explain that I have this wound on my head from a surfboard fin that hit me in the head. Healing fast. It's healing well. You get iron deficient, which is going to cause anemia. And that's going to cause energy problems. So many women, especially because they're menstruating and they're always losing a little

bit of iron when they have their periods, feel so much better when they incorporate red meat, probably because of the iron and the ability to make red blood cells. So anemia is not having enough red blood cells. You could get deficient in things like B12. Most vegans know this and will supplement with B12, but again, B12 not found in the plant kingdom. B12 is essential for DNA creation, repair, and for the formation of cells in our body, including the red blood cells. You could get deficient in things like vitamin K2, which is a form of vitamin K. K1 is involved in clotting, but K2 appears to be essential for calcium partitioning in the human body. And there's interesting studies like the Rotterdam study, which suggests that people who get more vitamin K2, which is found essentially only in

animal foods, there's one exception, which is natto, which is fermented soybeans, but it's from the bacteria in the natto, not the soybeans. But more K2 is associated with significantly less coronary artery disease and less calcification of the aortic valve. So K2 you could get deficient in. Creatine, we talked about. Minerals beyond those. Manganese. So many things. Selenium. And the list is so long. It's crazy. You're explaining to a kindergartner what to look for in a meet. Like if someone's going to the store, what are some things that you are not compromised? Like what are things that you're looking for when you look? Because there's different kinds of meat, right? Right. So what are those pillars that we need to be looking for? So I think that I never

want finances to be a barrier to someone actually getting meat. If you can only afford to eat like the big meat rockets, I call them at like Walmart or something, then that's better than nothing, right? What about the leg at Disneyland? If someone's chewing on one of those turkey legs, is that okay? Well, it depends what it's cooked in, right? Because then you have to get a little, like this is how I think about when I'm eating food out.

Like is that turkey leg cooked in seed oils? I'm going to need you to go to Disneyland. This would go viral. And I'm going to, I'm going to need you to go try the pickle and tell me if I can eat that big dick of a pickle. And also that turkey meat leg that everyone eats. Have you ever gone to Disneyland? You got to go there. Many years ago. Okay. You got to go and do a thing. You should do that. Actually, that's good content. That would be fucking amazing for you to go there and tell us what's in the turkey leg, but go ahead. So like turkey leg, if you're at the Renaissance fair, right? And you want to eat the turkey leg, you just got to ask them, what is it cooked in? Because if it has seed oils on it,

I would give it a pass. And we haven't talked about seed oils yet, but we will, we will foreshadow that. Okay. So dog ear that page. So no seed oils in your meat. But if you go to the grocery store, look, if finances are an issue, just get meat in your diet. But I think most people listening to this are interested in how do they make the best, most ethical choice, right? So then you want a meat that is grass-fed and grass-finished. There's a little interesting thing happening with labeling right now, where some manufacturers are just putting grass-fed on their meat. And that doesn't mean that the animal ate grass its whole life. It doesn't mean it's like these animals from white oak pastures that are on the pasture

their whole life. And Whole Foods is tricky with this. And I've called them out on social media. I'm sure they love that. I'm sure they do. I'm sure a lot of companies have it out for me right now. So they have meat at whole foods, which is pasture raised. But if you ask them, it's grain finished at the end. And so I think that the ideal thing is for an animal to eat what it's supposed to eat its whole life. This actually parallels what we're trying to do with humans. This idea that we want humans to eat the most evolutionarily appropriate food, but you want your food to eat its most evolutionarily appropriate food also. So cows are supposed to eat grass. Their whole life is supposed to eat grass. And we know that when you feed cows grains at the end, it's great for the farmer's profit,

but the cows get fat and sick and unhealthy, and they accumulate all the things that are in the grains that are potentially bad for humans. So you don't ideally want a cow that's fed grains at any point in its life. You want grass fed, grass finished. And if you really want to do right, look for farms like White Oak Pastures. I think there's another one called Circle C. There's a farm here in Austin called Shirttail Creek. Many other farms, Richardson Farms, are doing regenerative agriculture. That's kind of what I described at White Oak, where they're rotating pastures and the cows are fed grass their whole life. And it's better for the cow. It's better for the soil. And it's better for

the whole life cycle. Really quick, I just have to ask this for my own selfish self. The farms that you just mentioned, are these brands that we can go on their website and purchase them from? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So what force of nature, that's what I eat. Force of nature is great. I love them. Force of nature, white oak pastures, circle seed, Richardson farm. And you said one more. Shirttail Creek here in Austin. Shirttail Creek. Never heard of that. Okay. So quickly. So what we try to do on this show is present the information and then strongly encourage people to think about the information in the way that best suits their life.

But also like candidly, we're very opinionated people and try to point people in the direction that we believe to be right. That being said, if you're sitting there and you're listening, like I'm vegan, I don't believe in this. I'm never going to change my diet. Michael, shut the fuck up. I'm annoyed of you trying to push this meat diet on me. What would you at least then encourage those people that don't have meat in their diet to supplement with? Because we're talking a lot about what they're potentially not getting, and many may know, but I think a lot of vegans, and I don't mean this to slap the whole community, are not educated on the things that there may be lacking out of from a meat-based diet,

and they should consider supplementing with some of the things you mentioned. So I'm going to try and jujitsu the vegans listening to this and say, okay, if you don't want to eat meat, would you eat the organs? Because the meat is going to get produced anyway, and sometimes the organs get wasted. So if they would eat the organs, that would help a lot, right? And you could go to the store and eat literally a half an ounce of liver. The size of a quarter of liver would massively help a vegan from a nutritional standpoint. And that's one of the reasons I built Heart and Soil. So there's desiccated organs sitting on the table here from this company I built called Heart and Soil. And we do actually get vegans who will take

the capsules because they don't have to see the liver. That's kind of this psychological barrier to getting back. And so there's desiccated liver. So that might be an option too. I think that the fresh liver is great or like a small amount of heart because those organs, every cow that gets killed for meat is going to have some organs somewhere. And so if you're eating organs, you might be able to think in your mind that this is going to be just a piece of the equation and you're not directly causing the cow to die, even though we talked about why that is probably not a bad deal. Failing that, I would say vegetarianism is a step in the right direction from veganism because eggs and milk are very nutritious for humans.

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They also have little stickers that they can decorate with. So cute. It comes with the first order. So Haya is also non-GMO, vegan, allergy-free, gelatin-free, nut-free, and everything else you can imagine. I just feel like this is a great vitamin choice if you have kids. And of course, we have a special deal with Haya. It is for their best-selling children's vitamin, the one Zaza takes, and you receive 50% off your first order. To claim this deal, you must go to hayahealth.com slash skinny. This deal is not available on their regular website. So you're going to go to H-I-Y-A-H-E-L-T-H.com slash skinny and get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults. Go to H-I-Y-a-h-e-a-l-t-h.com slash skinny and get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults. Quick break to talk about our sponsor Squarespace.

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Okay. Michael and I were having this debate today. I ordered coffee for us and it was almond milk, but here's why. Okay. I know Paul's going to agree with me. I think I know the milk at the coffee store is not the right milk. It's like random, what's it called? Like Hudson? I don't want that milk either. That I don't want. So I guess what I should have done is get a black coffee, but I don't want the shitty milk at the coffee store. If I'm having raw milk from the farmer's market, give it all to me. What's

the vibe there? I don't believe in milking almonds either. I feel like that's just not normal either. No, tell us the real vibe. So I'm going to side over here with Michael right now. So I'm not a fan of almonds. I'm not a fan of almonds and almond milk. Let's talk about almond milk because this is a really interesting topic. Every time I talk about oat milk and almond milk, it goes viral. The first thing you have to think about when you're thinking about a nut milk or a plant milk is are there seed oils in the milk? So the one I have, no.

Okay, great. So there's no seed oils, but some of them do have canola oil. Then some of the almond milks have carrageenan, which is a real problem because we talked about the importance of the gut earlier and how immune cells originate in the gut and they go to your brain for multiple sclerosis, or they go to your pancreas for type 1 diabetes, or they go to your skin for psoriasis and eczema, or they go to your skin for acne. Like acne is autoimmune. And so you really need to protect your gut. And carrageenan is this, this is a technical word. It's a sulfated polysaccharide from algae that clearly causes

damage to the gut. And it's in a lot of foods. It can be in creamers, even dairy creamers, but it's in a lot of these nut milks and that's going to harm your gut. So what you're saying is because I don't know the brand of the almond milk from the coffee store, which I don't, that it's better for me to just do a black coffee because I don't know the milk and I don't know the almond. If I'm at home though and I have a milk that doesn't have it in it, is it okay? And if not, why? Why don't you just fucking grow up and have a black coffee like a man, Lauren?

Maybe I will. So I'm actually, and this is the last piece of this equation i'm even not a fan of milks of almond milks that are just almonds and water and it's great it's a great segue this is why i'm not a fan of seeds go off on this because i have almond milk every day right right so almonds are seeds right oats are grains they're seeds seeds are the plant babies they're the most highly defended parts of plants they have so many defense chemicals in them. So almonds have phytic acid, which is this chemical I mentioned earlier. I just make this, you know, I gesticulate like this.

It's a big molecule of chelates. It bites onto minerals. So phytic acid, we know, will prevent you from absorbing any minerals that you're eating with that phytic acid. So if you eat almond milk in the morning with an egg, for instance, you're going to absorb less of the nutrients, specifically the minerals from the egg because

of the phytic acid in the almond milk. And so the other thing with almonds, they have digestive enzyme inhibitors and they have oxalates. There's a really interesting case series in kids. And they had, kids had genitourinary issues. So they had urinary tract infections, kidney stones, and pain with urination that all got better when they removed almond milk from these kids' diets. And that's probably because of the oxalates. Oxalates is a fascinating rabbit hole. So oxalates is this compound, the body makes a small amount of it, but there is 10 to 100 times the amount that we make in plants, in our bodies found in plants.

Spinach is an oxalate bomb and almonds are not far behind. So if you eat one cup of spinach, I think that the statistic is 550 milligrams of oxalates in one cup of spinach. Now, 550 milligrams of spinach of oxalates is a ton. And most people are going to eat more than a cup of spinach because you're going to cook it. It's going to be smaller, or you're going to dump two handfuls in your smoothie. You just got a thousand milligrams of oxalates. That's a significant amount. We absorb about 10% of those oxalates. So you're going to absorb 50 to 100 milligrams of oxalates from spinach, just in that example. That's probably 10 times what your body's going to make in a day. It goes through your body. It

accumulates in your joints, potentially in your thyroid. And we know that calcium oxalate kidney stones, the most common type of kidney stone. So spinach consumption directly linked to kidney stone formation in humans in general. And almonds also have oxalates. So I just want to finish this point so you understand that almonds, but it's parallel to the spinach, oxalates, phytic acid, digestive enzyme inhibitors. And it's just, there's not a lot of value in the almond milk. And it's just, it's kind of harming humans.

The same thing with oats, phytic acid, all this kind of stuff. So if you're at home, are you only having raw milk? Is there a brand that you're having? Is it from the farmer's market? How do we get the best milk that we can possibly get? Yeah, let's keep going down the milk rabbit hole because there's a lot of interesting conversations here. So I have a podcast called Fundamental Health, and I'm actually doing a dairy episode next week. I already recorded it, so it's fresh in my mind. So when you're thinking about milk, if you go to a grocery store here, it's mostly Whole Foods here, but in LA is Erewhon, which has a little better selection. At Erewhon or at Whole Foods, you might see A2 milk. And this

is an important distinction, A2 versus A1. I would prefer raw milk. You can't get raw milk at Whole Foods, but you can get raw milk at the farmer's market here in Austin. There's a farm called Richardson's that does raw milk. And I actually have some in my refrigerator of the Airbnb here. To answer your question, Lauren, yes, I only do raw milk. If I can't get raw dairy, I won't eat it because in the past it has triggered my autoimmune disease and my eczema, the non-raw milk. But raw milk is unpasteurized. So in the 1900s, so milk has been a part of the human diet for probably 8,000 years. We know humans have been using this, and the lactase gene is probably one of the most strongly selected for genes in human evolution. Early in Europe, maybe 9,000 years ago, humans didn't have lactase in their genome.

We'd lost it. So only babies have it, and then toddlers, and we'd lose it. But when humans started drinking milk, we held on to that gene longer and longer, which is just a suggestion of how nutritious this food is. If you look at the nutrients in milk, calcium, riboflavin, K2, B12, I mean, there's so many nutrients in milk that are critical for human evolution. And there are interesting peptides which help us be strong and sort of, I would say, vital and virile humans like IGF-1. But in the 1900s, milk took a turn for the worse because they were feeding cows

swill, which is the original term for the dregs of the for the worse because they were feeding cows swill, which is the original term for the dregs of the alcohol industry. So they were feeding them spent grains from alcohol and this really crappy food. So the milk lowers in quality and they have outbreaks in terms of contamination and bacteria in the milk in the early 1900s. You can imagine 1890 or 1900, somebody milking a cow in a rundown building 100 years ago, and they're feeding the cow just old grains from the production of alcohol. And that cow is not going to make good milk, and there's not a lot of sanitation. So that was when pasteurization came in for milk. And that helped with the public health crisis of low-quality milk. But it seems to destroy one of

the proteins in milk, which is beneficial for humans, called the whey protein. So when you heat the whey protein above 160 degrees Fahrenheit, which is what happens when you pasteurize the milk, that protein changes conformation. We know that proteins change conformation when you heat them. That's what happens to an egg white, which is clear. When you put it in a pan, it becomes white. It's changing conformation, so it looks different. There's really interesting data. There's multiple studies showing that kids who grow up drinking unpasteurized raw milk, and these are kids on or off farms, they have less allergy, eczema, and asthma, all the things that I suffered from, probably because of a protective effect of this whey

protein. I'm going to the fucking farmer's market after this. It's Saturday. We're getting raw milk. Yeah. And you can feed it to your kids. If you make that decision, you feed it to your kids, you're giving them sort of this protection. Yeah, you put cacao in it too. You can get creative with the milk. Like, I feel like you can take the milk and do different things with it. You can do all kinds of things with the milk. I put honey in it. I am not nearly, obviously, as educated as you are on these things, but I try to keep it simple and just kind of like think common sense, right? And I read a lot of history, right? And I go back

and I start to think about how people were able to eat and survive in the past. And there's like this fascinating thing I read about Genghis Khan back in the day. And it said like he, you know, they were obviously a warring Mongol tribe and they basically, they had the largest land empire in the history of the world and he conquered almost everything. A lot of the ways they survived on horseback was mixing the horse blood and the horse milk. And the reason I mentioned this is many of us, I think I read some crazy stat that there's a huge percentage of people on this planet that are potential descendants of Genghis Khan himself. And I think that anytime I struggle with wondering how a human

would have gotten a certain thing, like an almond milk, for example, we didn't have this 200 years ago. Or if they didn't have an animal source and they were supplementing for some, they couldn't do these things. So I just think the body has evolved to be able to handle certain things like milk because it was abundant and it was a source of animal protein or animal dairy that we were next to all the time and it was easy to get. So of course, our bodies probably evolved to be able to handle it. And I think the reason we're struggling so much now as a population is we're introducing all these things that we haven't evolved with and the body cannot handle it, right? So everyone, I believe,

and this is going to sound crazy, four or 500 years from now, we will be able to handle things like plastic better because the body will build slowly defense systems. It's not great for us, but it's just the environment we live in where if you would have introduced people maybe 300 years ago to the stuff

we're bombarded with now, it would just completely obliterated them. Maybe, maybe. But we know now that these things are clearly they're affecting fertility i mean you can look at like you can look at penis size in males you can look at the anal genital distance why do they have small penis our environment is our environment is outpacing our evolution phalates are making your penis small yes what are phalates so phalates everyone's like give me the fuck away from phalates what are phalates so phthalates are these synthetic compounds found in fragrances and this is like when i get in an

uber and there's a black ice i can't you and i could talk for hours about this go on there's a black ice tree in the on the rearview mirror and you're smelling it right and you're thinking oh this is gross i roll down the window even in new york when it was freezing i'm rolling down the freaking window and the guy's like what i'm just I'm just, I'm just drive the car. Just get me there. And you get out of the Uber and you still smell like black ice, right? Or you're in a house or, you know, I took my car to the mechanic the other day in Costa Rica, which is where I live. And I, they took it to get something done. And I got the car back and the car smelled like the mechanics cologne. And then I have to wash the seat. I think leather seats,

but I have to wash the seat and like my clothes smell like the cologne. Those are phthalates. They're sticky. They carry fragrance. Every time you walk into a room and you see those Glade plugins in the corner, it's putting phthalates into the air. So these compounds, they're in perfumes, not all perfumes, but some of them are worse than others. They're in lotions. They're fragrance and lotions. It's hidden. And also like, I'm sorry, guys, when you wear too strong of cologne, it makes me want to puke. Like just like tone back the cologne. When I'm on an elevator with a guy and it's too strong, I'm like, oh, it's horrible.

And so they're fragrance and they're in a lot of things. And sometimes they say, sometimes it'll say phthalates or sometimes it'll just say fragrance. They're hidden on labels. But these are clearly endocrine disruptors. This word xenoestrogen is the fancy word for endocrine disruptors. They mimic estrogen in both men and women. And then they accumulate in women's bodies.

So the history of this or the pathways probably that women are exposed to these. And if they're carrying a male fetus, then it affects the male during gestation. And it leads to shrinking of the distance between the butthole and the end of the testicles, which is the anogenital distance, which is an indication of feminization of males, then shrinking of the penises. That's so interesting that you say this because when we moved to Austin, I changed all of our cleaning supplies.

I changed everything. I completely like redid my whole house and I'm so happy I did that when I was pregnant with my son. And I also, you know what else I got rid of? Tell me if there's phthalates in this. Candles that have fragrance. Well, yeah, probably. Like I just got with my son. And I also, you know what else I got rid of? Tell me if there's phthalates in this. Candles that have fragrance. Well, yeah, probably.

Like I just got beeswax candles. They're so much better. They're so much better. Yeah, but you bring up the laundry detergent is a problem because it can have these fragrances. So when I came to this Airbnb in Austin, I'm surprised Airbnb even lets me use their app because every Airbnb I do, I message the person,

hey, can you wash all the sheets and all the towels in vinegar or a fragrance-free detergent? What's your favorite? I just use vinegar. But if you have to use a detergent? I think Seventh Generation, like Free and Clear, is the one with the least amount, again, there's so much to talk about, of 1,4-dioxane. So if we're talking about laundry detergent specifically, we did content about this. New

York State has outlawed any detergent with more than two parts per million of 1,4-dioxane, which is a probable carcinogen. Also, what in the fuck are people thinking sleeping on a pillow all night breathing in like the most toxic... The fragrance. I guess I have to give people the benefit of the doubt. They aren't thinking, what are the companies thinking to let us sleep for eight to nine hours on this smell that smells like perfume all night i can't do it and then i can't even sleep on the sheets in the airbnb because i don't want i don't want cotton polyester sheets i bring my own sheets and paul if we were married you're not on board with this no he's he's he's gotten on board he's gotten here's the thing i am on board with, but I'm also not neurotic with it. I'm neurotic.

I'm neurotic. I'm neurotic. I'm bringing my barefoot dreams blanket that was washed in Molly's suds. But here's the thing. I've been wrapping myself. I try to take an educated approach to this and try to be 90% of the time perfect.

But I just had to go to New York and stay in a hotel. And I just, there was no other, I'm just, you know, I'm not going to sit there and be like, holy shit, what's going on? We could write a book though

about like Larry David ones. Like what about when you're eating your food and then they take windex and start to clean the table with it it's i'm it drives me nuts or are you gonna water with a plastic straw in it i can't do it or you drink a coffee and it's piping hot and there's a plastic lid well you can go on and on and on i gotta i gotta i gotta tell you about coffee even more so there are there are compounds called PFAs, so parafluoroalkylated compounds. These are forever chemicals now in the popular press. They're in plastics. You get a coffee from Starbucks, it's in the paper cup. That paper cup is lined with plastic with PFAs in it. So you have a piping hot coffee in a paper cup that's

lined with plastic. That's giving you estrogen, right? Well, PFAs can be estrogenic or they can be cancer causing, but yes, they're also endocrine disruptors. And you go to Whole Foods and they have this paper, this sort of brown paper carrier for your Whole Foods hot bar thing. You think you're doing the right thing. It's lined with plastic and that can have PFAs in it. You go to Whole Foods and you get the butcher paper. It's lined with plastic that can have PFAs in it. So really, at this point, when I talk about this, people become overwhelmed and kind of throw their hands up. But knowledge is power. Know better, do better. And like every intentional choice that you make is a step in the right direction like you did.

I don't think that you have to be psycho about it, but I just learned the other day about a plastic cutting board and I was cutting my son's like fruit on it to make him his thing. And so if I can eliminate a plastic cutting board and get a wood one, like I'm going to do that. I don't think it's about being perfect. I just think it's tiny little changes that you can make throughout your day that make a big difference overall. Yeah. So let's talk about, so you started as carnivore MD and at that point where you only eat, you, you try to only eat meat, no fruit, no honey, nothing. And why did you decide to do that in the beginning? So that was sort of the intention.

Let's cut everything out and see how this works with a very, let's just say intentional elimination diet. And it's become way more popular. I mean, you've been a pioneer of this, but it's become like more and more people are talking about this. Yeah, it's become very popular. And so I ate meat and organs and animal fat and salt for a year and a half. Eczema gets better. I think I

lost a small amount of weight. I think if I look back at myself during that period, my muscles were not as full, but generally my life was pretty good. I could go to the gym. I could do things when I would go climbing. Cause there was a climbing gym in Seattle that I would go to. I would get, I started living in Seattle. Yeah. I was living in Seattle. So I was sun deprived, but we can talk about that. Get the fuck out of the sun, Jesus. That's different though. We'll talk about that. So I would get cramps when I would climb. If anyone's ever climbed, you know, you sort of point your toes, you dorsiflex, technical term, and I would get cramps in my calves. And as I did that longer and longer, I'm pretty low carb, essentially zero carb keto. I began to get more

cramps in the morning. Anyone who's keto knows that when you wake up in the morning, if you point your toes, you're going to get a massive calf cramp. And eventually that got worse and worse for me. And I had to think about things and understand that long-term ketosis is harmful for humans, I believe strongly now. And this is to say that what I learned... And how do you qualify long-term ketosis? It's going to be different between person to person, but right now I would say anything longer than like three or four days. Okay. Okay. Wow. Yeah. And I did it for a year and a half. But the first thing I learned was, okay, cutting vegetables out was beneficial. Well, let's just say this. Cutting everything

out was beneficial for me from an autoimmune perspective. And then I reincorporated what I believe to be the least toxic plant foods, which are the fruit. So when you think about things from a plant's perspective, this kind of helps put things in context. Plants are life. They're anti-entropy. They're beautiful. They're really interesting. How does a plant live, right? It's rooted in the ground. It can't run away from you. I was over at Barton Springs last night. There's the big monkey tree. It's a huge, beautiful tree. There's all these trees. There's a cottonwood tree shooting out its seeds with these little cotton balls that's floating through the air at Barton Springs. But none of those trees can want to run away from me. So if I'm an animal that wants to eat those leaves or chew on the bark or eat the roots, I can just walk up to it and just have at

it. It's like a buffet. And so over the course of our co-evolution as life forms, multicellular life forms and plants, we have over 500 million years, we've had to, plants have evolved defense chemicals. We know this. There's so many of these chemicals that sort of push animals, insects, fungi away from plants to prevent them from just eating each other. So if you think about it from a plant's perspective, a plant is rooted in the ground. It can't run away. Animals can eat it. Insects can eat it. So there's been this co-evolution, this arms race between animals, insects, whatever, life forms, multicellular life forms that are non-plants and plants for 400 million years. And plants develop a defense chemical that says, hey, don't eat me because I'm toxic. And there are so many examples of this, right? There's

botanical evidence. When I was in college, I hated botany, but now I really appreciate it. It's fascinating. That was my worst grade in college. I was so pissed at botany. But there's evidence that if a plant senses the vibrations of a caterpillar eating leaves adjacent to another leaf, it will put more defense chemicals in the leaf. So plants are so smart. They can sense the vibrations of a caterpillar eating a leaf, and they will pump more defense chemicals into different leaves. In Costa Rica, we have leaf cutter ants. I don't know if you guys have ever seen these. They're amazing. They walk in a line. They're these ants carrying these pieces of leaves that are multiple times their body weight. And leaf

cutter ants will just decimate a forest or decimate a tree. But when trees sense or bushes sense that they're having leaf cutter ant infestation, they will put more defense chemicals in their leaves and it poisons the ants and the ants have to move on to a new tree or a new bush. So plants do this with insects, but they've also done it with humans. And because they've done it with other animals, herbivorous animals have sort of evolved. They've evolved more defense chemical or more ways to detoxify the defense chemicals in plants.

If you look at a ruminant stomach, like a cow stomach, very different than ours, they have different detoxification pathways. Sheep and moose have enzymes in their saliva that detoxify some of these chemicals as they're chewing them and the chemicals sort of evaporate. And animals that are herbivorous know this. There's documented cases of animals dying off in mass when they're corralled into too small a space because they can only eat one type of plant and the animals can only detoxify so much of that plant's defense chemical. All the animals die. So when animals are in the wild, they're not just eating one

plant. They're going between multiple plants. They're so smart. This is animal evolution, right? They know, okay, I can only eat a little bit of this plant and a little bit of this plant, a little bit of this plant so that all of my detoxification pathways in my body can get rid of these defense chemicals. But as humans, we just like throw five handfuls of spinach and we just eat spinach and spinach and spinach. All we eat is spinach. Or I mean, when I was a vegan, all I ate for seven months was two heads of kale a day. And doesn't kale, isn't it so bad for your thyroid? It's horrible for your thyroid.

And isn't like the little bristles that gets stuck with all those pesticides? I'm sure it could. And there's actually kale accumulates thallium. So thallium is a heavy metal in the soil. And there's people who have had thallium toxicity from eating kale and multiple leafy greens can do this. They'll pull it up from the soil and you can check for heavy metals from the kale and stuff. But we don't, we don't do this as humans. We're not eating a little bit of this leaf and a little bit of this leaf and a little

bit of this leaf. And if you go back to the hunter gatherers, where we come from as humans, they don't eat salads. The Hadza never ate a leaf the whole time I was with them. And this is a hunter-gatherer tribe. They're literally wearing animal skins in Africa. What do they look like? They're super handsome people. Lean? No, I mean, are they muscular? Are they lean? They're muscular, but perhaps a little less muscular than me. They're not as muscular as you because they probably don't get enough food to be that muscular. They don't have enough animals in their diets, but they are lean humans. There's no obese hunter-gatherer, but there's pictures of Polynesian islanders and stuff, and they're muscular. They look like a guy who's an athlete going to the gym. They look like, what's a good example? Not like a bodybuilder,

obviously, but like a sprinter. They might look like that level of muscle. For all the women listening who, let's say they're like me, they're postpartum, they want to tone up, they want to maybe lose a couple pounds. What are some benefits when it comes to weight loss or muscle with meat and raw milk and honey and fruit and the way you eat? I would love to know more about like the body composition aspect. Yeah. So weight loss is really interesting to me because I think that most of what we're told is wrong. I don't think weight loss is about eating less calories and exercising more. That's kind of the biggest loser formula when taken to extremes. But we know that 96% of people on the biggest

loser gain the weight back plus more. And so when you're trying to lose weight and you're limiting calories and you're overexercising, you're basically hurting your thyroid gland. The body's very smart. You're telling your body that it's starving. You're telling your body that whatever tribe you're in, there's not enough food there. And you have to walk for miles a day to find the next set of food.

That's going to make you less fertile and it's going to tone your thyroid gland down. This kind of happens with the ketogenic diet also. Your thyroid gland goes down. Your metabolism goes down. And that means that you're almost in a race to the bottom. And I've talked to so many women about this. Women who do figure competitions run into this problem because they want to get so lean. And they say, well, I can't lose weight. I have to do more cardio and eat less. And the next week, their thyroid goes down even more. That means their metabolism,

their baseline, how many calories they burn at baseline goes down even more. So they have to work out more and eat less, work out more and eat less. And eventually so many of these figure competitors who are just an illustration of this taken to extremes end up with complete hormonal crash. They don't have periods. They don't have any libido and they basically have no energy. And so that's not what you want. What you want is to lose weight in a healthful manner with your thyroid working as much as possible. You want your metabolism to be as high as possible when you're losing weight, not as low as possible. So you have to give your body the signal of abundance. And the signal of

abundance comes from two things, in my opinion. It comes from the nutrients in animal foods, and it comes from carbohydrates. And if you don't give your body carbohydrates, this is going back to the keto conversation, your thyroid will go down. Your metabolism will go down. Your stress hormones will go up. And it makes sense evolutionarily. If we're in a tribe and you're postpartum in the tribe and your body needs a signal of abundance, we better be around some fruit or some carbohydrates for you

because that's what signals to your body, that's abundance. Or if you're looking to get pregnant, that's abundance. That's the time when it's a fertile time for humans. When there's no carbohydrates around, the body's like, whoa, it's winter. Yeah, your body's telling you you shouldn't get pregnant right now because you're not gonna be able to survive that pregnancy.

Exactly, exactly. And so women shouldn't fear carbohydrates. And we can talk about which carbohydrates I think are better for women, which won't hurt the gut as much or trigger- Yeah, we love details. Yeah, yeah. And they shouldn't fear meat.

So the nutrients in meat, let's start there. Meat and organs, those nutrients help with satiety and they give the body a signal of abundance. So meat and organs. What organs specifically? Start with liver, right? Liver. Liver is tricky, but you know, you can do desiccated organs like hardened soil, or you can do fresh, a little bit frozen. It's not that bad. Plug, my thing with, with it's beauty. The benefits just plug the nose. Yeah. Yeah. And I freeze the liver. So I'll take liver. I'll cut it up into little pieces. You can put it in like a silicone tray.

Those are not, I don't think those are that toxic. And you can have a little piece of liver, like the size of a quarter is half an ounce. And if it's frozen, you chew it or you can have it thawed and just do a shooter with like a drink. How do I get my three-year-old to eat liver? Put it in a smoothie. Okay. Yeah. You can put it in a smoothie. Yeah. Or you can empty the capsules into a smoothie. He'll never know. And there's some people like to put in maple syrup too.

You can do that. You can put in maple syrup. But so I have a five-year-old niece and my sister got her to eat liver, but we had to bribe her with like, you know, something else. Like, oh, we'll give you this honey to eat the liver. It's tricky if they get to that age. If you start, how old is your daughter? She's three. Oh, okay.

How old is your son? One. He's one. Okay. So your son is maybe just a little bit too old for this, but if you start at like six months for their first food, if they get liver, they will love liver. I've heard this so many times. I mean, he eats the ancestral bun. Isn't there liver in the ancestral bun by force of nature? Yeah. There's nothing right now. If you put something

in front of his face, he's eating it. He's eating it, right? So if you give your one-year-old son liver, he'll eat it. And then by the time he's the age of your daughter, he won't say, this is a funny taste. But your daughter's three, so she's had the palate that's experienced this so much that she's going to have liver and just go, this doesn't taste like anything I've ever had. Liver is very irony. It's very minerally because it has- I don't think it's that bad. But your three-year-old does. Okay. And so you have to hide it for her.

Okay. So I'm going to use the liver blend and I'm going to put that in her smoothie. And then I can also do liver with maple syrup or honey. What are the brands? You know, I'm going to ask you this. The best brand of honey on the market, even if it's expensive, tell us the best brand. So it's tricky because I get my, I live in Costa Rica. So you're like getting your honey out of the hive. And did you move to Costa Rica because you wanted a more-

Michael, he has to tell us the brand of honey first. We're going to. But did you move there because you wanted a more natural environment? Yeah, I surf. Yeah, okay. So I was living in Austin and I was living in Southern California. So I did residency in Seattle. I moved to Southern California.

Okay. And I wanted to build this company, this hard and soil company to make these desiccated organs for people that won't do the fresh organs. So I moved to Austin, built the company, and then started to feel like I really miss surfing. I miss adventure. One part of my history that I left out is that between college and going back to graduate school, I was a ski bum for six years. So I was climbing mountains, backcountry skiing, trying not to get killed in an avalanche, doing things that were really a piece of my soul and bring me a lot of joy. But that's the center of who I am. I'm like a ski bum that accidentally went to medical school one and a half times. And now I'm a surf bomb that just really loves surfing.

It's just a joy to get up every morning to go in the ocean, which is why I have a fin injury in my head right now. To go in the ocean every morning is just, that's my world. And I think that, yeah, it's grounding and it brings me so much joy that I come out of the ocean so full that I'm excited to do work in the world. I think it's important for people to know that. You're effective. Yeah. Well, I think you just, when you have joy, when you get to do the thing that you love, you're so much more able to do the other things that you need to do in your life and you want to do in your life. So passion, pursuing your passion and your hobbies, people think of that as frivolous,

but it's so important for what I do. So that's why I moved to Costa Rica. Now I surf every morning, get out of the ocean. I mean, I'm in the water at like 530 in the morning. So I'm getting sun in my eyes, grounding, and I get up and come back and work. Walk us through your day as detailed as possible. Do you want the honey brand? I want the honey brand. First, the honey brand. I don't know in the States. I'd have to do some research to tell you the truth because I get my honey from- Can you do a story that tells us when this goes live, like what's the best honey?

I'm assuming it's not the one in the bear bottle. It's not the one in the bear bottle.'s not the one in the bear but i'd get it in glass okay right i'd get a raw honey i get something that's organic and something that's glyphosate free so there is a brand online on amazon they don't carry it at whole foods here it's called heavenly organics and it's glyphosate certified glyphosate free so i like that one in costa rica i just get it from a local farm and there's no there's no agriculture around there and i actually brought you guys some mariola honey have you ever had mariola honey no we're gonna try it you know i'm a huge metallica fan which is i know it's gonna sound strange it's relevant but as a hobby james hetfield who's the lead singer has he's a beekeeper now and like he says he gets like the most peace by and i was i was thinking like that could be my thing no you're really cerebral i could see you doing i could go

in the beekeeper suit and make my own honey and be a beekeeper. And also we had Carly from Beekeepers Natural Industries. It sounds therapeutic to me. I want to know what you do with your day when it comes to food and drink and walk me through from when you wake up to when you go to bed. Yeah. So I get up at about five, five 30 in the morning. And before I surf, I'll usually drink. It's going to be Costa Rica version, right? So I'll drink a coconut. I have like coconut water and coconut. This is my life. Go on. Like coconut water. You walk outside, the coconut falls on your head. You crack it open. There is a coconut tree in my yard. Like I'll send you guys videos of my plate. It's pretty rad. I drink a coconut that's in my fridge. It's not from my yard usually. And then I have raw milk,

raw goat's milk with honey. So that's before I surf because I don't want to be fasting. I've had this cortisol spike in the morning. This is the cortisol awakening response. I like that, but I don't want to have cortisol higher throughout the morning. I don't want to be in keto. I don't want to be in ketosis. You stir the honey into the milk. I stir the honey into the milk. It's delicious. How much honey? A lot. What are we talking? I have probably 16 ounces of, well, maybe 12 to 14 ounces of goat's milk. Okay. And it's, I should show you a photo on my phone. It's probably five plus tablespoons of honey.

Tablespoons of honey. Yum. Like, I'm a very active human. And I've really, so from going from keto, I've gone completely the direction. I probably eat 300 grams of carbohydrates plus per day now. And when I do my blood work, which I talk about in my podcast, I'm completely insulin sensitive. My amygdala A1C is low. Like it's, this is a whole separate conversation. So I start with probably five plus tablespoons of honey in the morning with my milk. And that's before I go to surf for two hours. And quickly, what, what are the benefits of honey

for those that are wondering and listening? Because I think a lot, many people just think, oh, that's the sweet stuff that I put on my toast sometimes. Yeah. Honey's really interesting. There's actually a study in diabetics, diabetics, people with metabolic syndrome, metabolic dysfunction. They gave them ascending amounts of honey over eight weeks. And at the end of the eight weeks, the last two weeks of those eight weeks, they gave them around 150 grams of honey per day, 150 grams of honey. That's 10 tablespoons of honey per day. And these are diabetics. Their fasting glucose goes down. So honey, it's this complex

food from bees that has looked like many, many beneficial properties in humans, potentially improving insulin sensitivity in humans. Even though it's a sugar, it improves insulin sensitivity. And then there's potential cardiovascular benefits. There's little prebiotics in there that probably are beneficial for the gut. I just think of it as an easy way for me to get calories in the form of carbohydrates, which I need as a man when I'm doing these activities to keep my thyroid functioning, to keep my basal metabolic rate high. Because we talked about that a little earlier. You don't want your metabolism to go down. We burn calories. The most calories we burn are not when we're on our treadmill for 45 minutes at the gym. It's the 23 other hours of the day when your basal metabolic rate is kicking in. You're burning weight while you're sleeping. That's how you

lose weight. That's how you get a healthy human is you have a healthy metabolism. And so I want my calories to be adequate. I don't want to limit calories or carbohydrates and send my signal, send a signal to the body that's like this scarcity signal. Does that make sense? Yep. So you do your raw 16 ounces of goat milk with five tablespoons of organic honey. Go on. From the local producers in Costa Rica. Yeah. It's the best honey in the world. And then I go surf, I come back and I make orange juice. So I have fresh oranges and I'll juice them myself. I'll eat skirt steak or some kind of steak. I'll maybe have 10 or 12 ounces of steak with a low microplastic sea salt. I'll have a little bit of raw liver. I'll eat some heart. So I cook the heart on the grill. Heart's a very unique organ also because it has coenzyme Q10 and other peptides. And then I'll have maybe a little more goat's milk and honey. So that's my

breakfast. So at this point, I mean, if anyone's listening to this and doesn't see me, I'm 5'9". I weigh 165 pounds and I'm probably 10% body fat. And I eat 3,500 plus calories a day. So this is what happens to humans, I think, when your metabolism works and when you're metabolically healthy. And then what? After breakfast? So breakfast, then I'll usually have a snack around 2 p.m., which is going to be maybe some fruit juice. So I have a juicer and I'll juice like watermelon juice or mango juice in there. I might have a little more goat's milk and honey, maybe a little bit of meat. And you don't eat the fruit, you juice it?

I juice most of the fruit. Yeah. I will eat the fruit. Like here in Austin, I don't have a juicer, so I'll do oranges and apples. But will you eat the fresh mango? Is that a, or do you not like- I do. I do eat the fresh mango, but I like to juice it more.

Okay. I found that my gut feels best when I have some fiber, but not too much. I don't, I'm not like trying to get tons and tons of fiber. And honestly, for me, I think that I'm active and my metabolism is just moving. So I'm trying to get the calories and the nutrients, the carbohydrates, and not fearing that,

like so many of us do, that I like the fruit juice more. And watermelon juices. Have you had watermelon juice? Your watermelons are delicious. I'm coming to Costa Rica it's amazing like you guys are always welcome thank god your kids will love

watermelon juice like that's a good one it's amazing he's gonna buy a juicer I can already tell right now well I buy them but then you move it out

no you don't what's the juicer that you use really quick it's a Breville it's a stainless steel Breville okay yeah he's gonna go buy

I had it Lauren you threw it away I did not throw it away I had the exact one yeah it is it's about it's about three or four hundred dollars when you're juicing me fucking watermelon juice Okay. Yeah. He's going to go buy it. I had it, Lauren. You threw it away. Okay. I did not throw it away. I did not throw it away. Yeah, it is. It's about $300 or $400. When you're juicing me fucking watermelon juice in the afternoon, I'll think about reintegrating it. Go ahead. So then at dinner, I usually have dinner at, I don't know, 5.30 or 6. And it's a steak or

hamburger grass-fed with some low microplastic salt and then maybe a little more milk and honey and fruit. What is low microplastic salt and what's the brand? So you know, there's a couple of brands. So there are microplastics in seafood. Microplastics are these little tiny breakdown products of plastic bags and credit cards that get in the oceans. God damn, you have to be your own guru, man. But knowledge is power, right? Know better, do better. And so a lot of sea salt can have contamination with microplastics. So I thought if I'm going to be eating salt, why don't I have a salt that's low microplastics? So Redmond is pretty low microplastics. There's another salt. I think Jacobson's is pretty low microplastics.

You can look and see how they're tested. I've got one called, it's from Colima, Mexico. It's an inland salt flat. Colima sea salt is low microplastics. And I don't want this to be overwhelming for people. It's just how I do it. And I see myself as like, I'm the astronaut. I get to go in and be, I try and use my neurotic tendencies for good because I definitely know that I have these tendencies. One thing that I think has really changed my life since moving to Austin is being thoughtful and purposeful with my cleaning supplies. When I moved here, I made a conscious effort to get rid of anything that was full of shit. And so I switched to Branch Basics. And I chose this brand because I asked a lot of people like scientists and even

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just order any random thing off a menu it's like hey like maybe take a second look at the ingredients see what you're eating see what you're just be just be mindful because i think that we were talking off air a little bit like we kind of we all come from this product of the 80s 90s our parents were introduced to this kind of mass production of all these products that maybe didn't exist 100 years ago. And this has just become the norm. People just go through the shelves and assume that because it's there, it must be fine for you. And it's just not the case.

Talk to me about seed oils and how much when we go out to eat that stuff's being cooked in seed oils. It depends where you go. So in Austin, do you know the restaurant Dai Dui? They don't use many seed oils. So I'm actually going to go there next week, I think. And they don't do seed oils in many things. They told me they put canola oil in their mayonnaise. But they're one of the restaurants I like in Austin

because they're aware of this. I was just in New York and I went to a restaurant called Hearth. And the guy at Hearth, Marco Canora, is awesome. He doesn't do any seed oils in his restaurant either. He uses tallow, which is rendered beef fat, which we've got here. And I'm going to share this with you guys. I want, I want to try. Yeah. So

that's tallow, but most women and men are not aware of tallow. You've heard of butter, but tallow is like rendered beef fat from meat butter. So Marco uses tallow. He uses olive oil and I think he uses butter in his cooking, but that's what you want in a restaurant. There's actually a food truck here in Austin called Ziki and they're, they're kind of like Mediterranean. So they do a lot of grains and stuff that I won't eat, but they don't use any seed oils. And I love that businesses like that are doing no seed oils. And it's becoming a meme because that's powerful at the level of consumers when they say, I don't want seed oils in my food. And there's an app called Seed Oil Scout. And this is my friend in New York. And he goes, he has the app. He's curating this app so people can look in different cities and people will go to restaurants and review the restaurants and say,

do you use seed oils in your restaurants? I've done some content about this. I did it on the first week. I saw you guys at a Sweet Queens one time. Yeah, they totally use, I'm sure they love that. Sunflower oil, seed oils in their salad dressing. So let's back up and talk about seed oils. Seed oils are evolutionarily inconsistent. We would never have done this as humans. They're oils that are pressed from the seeds of plants, but not pressed, industrially processed from the seeds of plants. So there's a video online with millions of views on YouTube about how canola oil is made. And I don't know why some people like this video, but I love that they do because it shows you canola seeds are a catastrophe for our environment in so many ways. They're a big producer of greenhouse gas emissions,

if that's a problem for people, but they also use a lot of land that could be used otherwise. It's not a food. So canola comes from the rape plant. And it's not a food- The what plant? The rape plant.

Oh, okay. Yeah, the rape plant. And they have a- Okay, go on. There's a plant called the rape plant, but they don't wanna call it rape oil. Yeah, yeah. It's canola oil. But can, but they don't want to call it rape oil. Yeah, yeah. It's canola oil.

But canola oil is low erucic acid rapeseed oil. That's actually on the side of an Oatly bottle. Low erucic acid rapeseed oil. And rapeseeds are not able to be eaten by humans because they're associated with cardiac abnormalities because of this fatty acid in them called erucic acid. So they hybridized rapeseeds in just a business venture in Canada, and they made them low a rusic acid. So they hybridized rape seeds in just a business venture in Canada, and they made them low a rusic acid. Canola is Canadian oil low acid. That's what

canola stands for. And so canola is made by you harvest these low a rusic acid rape seeds, you grind them up, you have to heat them, which creates all this gum. And in this video, you see all this nasty gum and wax dripping out of the oil. And at this point, you've already oxidized the oil. You've destroyed the oil. But in order to make the oil not smelly when you open it or you have it in a salad dressing, you have to deodorize it and bleach it. And then you have to extract it with hexane. And so it's just the, and all of these seed oils are industrially processed oils. And we're talking about corn, canola, sunflower, safflower, peanuts, soybean. What oils are good?

Grape seed. Just tell us the ones that are good. So in terms of good oils, there's a hierarchy here. I start with animal fats because they have these animal nutrients. The tallow. Tallow. Tallow. Tallow, yeah. Is that the bone marrow thing?

That's bone marrow. But if you took the fat from around the kidneys of an animal, it's called suet, and you heat it, you render that fat from around the kidneys of an animal it's called suet and you heat it you render that fat that's tallow got it so tallow is like rendered beef fat or if you take the trimmings of an animal that's fat and you heat it up that's tallow it rises to the top so tallow is your number one tallow i like because it has vitamin k2 and it has vitamin e and this is why i'm interested to share this with you because tallow i don't know if you've seen this on social media but people are putting beef fat on their skin. Oh, fuck yeah. I will put beef fat all over my, it's probably has so many amino acids, minerals. Naturally occurring vitamin E. Oh my God. Yeah. You should launch a whole product line. We're working on it. Okay. Yeah. Come back on when

you launch the beef fat and I'll be the first to try it all over my face. But right now I put this fire starter, which is the tallow from hardened soil. You can cut these pills and you can put it on your face. They're like individual little servings of tallow. Can you eat it too? Yeah, you can eat it. It's meant as a food. Can I try it right now? Yeah.

It kind of looks like a jelly bean, you guys. Yeah. If you're on YouTube, you can see it looks like a yellow jelly bean. You want me to put some oil on my face? Yeah, I'll do it. I'll put it on his face. Put it on that pimple. Listen, anything for the show.

Put the tallow. Tallow or tower? Tallow. Tallow. Put the tallow on the pimple listen anything for the show put the tallow tallow or tower tower tallow put the tallow on the pimple okay so what do i do here i squeeze it out squeeze it out squeeze it out you don't need a lot i will put this on my face okay and do i put it here yeah just put it anywhere put it up here it's pretty nice to sleep with that that's right really the war paint on me yeah there you go it's not on the camera You gotta do a skincare line. Yeah, yeah. We're working on it. It's non comedogenic. So like I put this on my face.

I was just going to say you should put it on your cut. I'm putting it on my scar. Let me tell you what just happened, guys. We had the vegans maybe for a moment and now that I just rubbed animal fat on my face, we've lost them.

No, it's... We've lost them. You're going to help so much with fine lines and wrinkles when you rub this on. It's fat. It's so good for the skin. It's so good for your skin.

It actually feels very nice. Yeah. You look... I swear to God, you look so glowy and amazing. Okay, so you can put this on your skin, but eat it too. You can eat it too. If you're not getting enough, you know, animal fat in your diet, we just got a review at Heart and Soil. A woman said that she changed her diet to animal based, which is just a term that I've used to be talking about. There's more in here. You can open this if you want more. The scent is

strong. Yeah. It smells a little beefy. Yeah. It's a little beefy. Yeah. That'll be, that'll be taken care of. My dogs are going to love this. I don't care. Anything for beauty. Go strong. Yeah. It smells a little beefy. Yeah, it's a little beefy. Yeah. That'll be taken care of. My dogs are going to love this. I don't care. Anything for beauty. Go on. Yeah. So this woman sent us her review. She did this animal-based diet.

And then she puts the tallow on her face and her skin and her blemishes and her acne were getting better. She had a lot of scarring on her back and it really helped. So it's an interesting trend. I wish we had a skincare line today, but we're working on it. It'll come and we'll make the highest quality stuff we can from regeneratively raised animals. It takes a little time to make the companies good. But yeah, the tallow is fascinating. So tallow and butter are my favorite fats because they're animal fats and animal fats have unique

nutrients. People don't think about fat as nutrient rich, but all the fat soluble nutrients are in the fat. So vitamin E, vitamin A, vitamin K2, probably a little vitamin D in the fat. And then there's also things like stearic acid, which is an animal fat. Stearic acid is an 18 carbon, get technical for a moment, 18 carbon saturated fat that has been shown to activate mitochondria. It kind of turns on fat burning in mitochondria.

And you could look at vegans, they have essentially no stearic acid. There's a study in humans where they gave people, they put them on a vegan diet for three days so they don't get any stearic acid. And then they give them stearic acid and you see the mitochondria change, a study published in Nature. So you can see the mitochondria of our body respond to this 18 carbon saturated fat and it's in animal fats.

You know what I'm going to ask you? Yeah. What's your favorite butter brand? And don't give us one in Costa Rica. Give us one we can buy here. So it'd have to be a raw butter. So I would want to get a raw butter. So you go to a farmer's market. Go to a farmer's market or Erewhon in California because there's that raw farms in California. Raw farms makes a kefir and a milk, but they also have a raw butter in California. I'm going to the farmer's market every Sunday. That's the best. I mean, then you can meet the folks from Short Tail Creek or Richardson's and get the A2 milk and get the raw butter.

That's what I'm going to do. So butter and tallow are my favorite fats. And then it drops off steeply from there because I don't see it. Like the only other use I could think for people is they want a liquid fat that they can pour on something. What about olive oil? See, olive oil is better than seed oils, but 70% of olive oil is tainted. It's, it's tainted with seed oils because it's this kind of corrupt industry where they, they're going to put, they mix it. They mix it with seed oils. It's kind of like wine. What about avocado? Same thing.

Do you drink any alcohol? No, I don't. You never drink? I've never drank. I've never had a problem. I had a drink when I was in medical school. So the first year of medical school, I was running for the class office.

And after the elections, we all go out and I drink like half a beer. But that was literally like 12 years ago was the last time I had alcohol. I just don't enjoy it in my life. Wow. And we know that, we know that. Well, you look amazing. Hat tip to Andrew Huberman.

You know, we know that even small amounts of alcohol, an average of one drink per day, thin the neocortex, thin parts of the brain. And we know that alcohol is a toxin for the gut. So right now we're back to the gut. It's like healthy skin, freedom from autoimmune disease, acne. It's about protecting your gut.

So when I learned that any amount of alcohol is going to damage your gut, you think that's not good. And look, I want people to be able to enjoy their life. You all have to make a decision in terms of your quality of life at any point, but we know that alcohol is going to cause leaky gut. It's just a toxin for the gut. I don't really drink alcohol much at all anymore. People know that on this show, but it's interesting when I meet people that are so focused on wellness and being healthy, and then they'll go on the weekend and slam alcohol weekends. I'm like, you kind of like,

what's the point? Like all of the good you're doing, you're just crushing yourself, right? Like, or the people that are working out really hard and then going out three nights a week and slamming alcohol. It's like, you're killing your progress, right? And you're diminishing yourself. This is why I don't like cheat meals either. You know, The Rock has glorified cheat meals and he has these Sunday, you know, lives where he eats all this French toast and pancakes and stuff. And it drives me nuts. It's like, I don't know if people on the podcast or listening to the podcast do cheat meals, but I think it's more of a guy thing. Like I'm going to eat real healthy and then I'm just going to do a cheat meal, bacon, eggs, pancakes, whatever. And some of those foods are okay, but like, you know, brownies on the weekends. But I think the

problem with cheat meals is you, you, you frame it for yourself psychologically that your healthy foods are restrictive and your junk foods are the reward, which never works. And I want people to understand that historically, evolutionarily, meat and organs, fruit, honey, raw dairy, these are the foods that our ancestors have celebrated for hundreds of thousands of years. How come when I eat more meat, I have less craving for other food? I noticed the more meat I eat, the less craving I have for like the nutrients, probably. Pancakes are all these things that I maybe used to like before eating a lot of meat. I think it's nutrients too. It's probably the protein and the nutrients. I mean, as a woman or as a man, your body wants bioavailable protein, which meat has in the

most abundant form of any food for humans or organs, but you also get nutrients. You're getting iron, you're getting selenium, you're getting things that we don't think about. And you don't have to think about because it's already programmed in the meat. That's an evolutionary program. You're giving your body information, right? And the information you're giving your body is abundance. You're saying, whoa, I'm in a tribe. My husband is a really fricking good hunter, right? He's come back to me with meat and he's sharing this meat with me and with our children. Like this is abundance. That's really, you can't even argue with that story. Well, you know, I think people feel they need cheat meals or they

feel they need these things because they're not satiating themselves with proper diet and nutrients, right? And like when you do these things and you eat well and you eat right, you kind of almost don't want the other junk because you already feel satisfied. Right. And I think that that's the biggest problem is people just they want to reward these things, these themselves with these bad foods because they're not satiated. Exactly. Right. Is that right?

Yeah. Before we go, number one, you can come back on the podcast anytime you want because there's 60 million things we could have talked about. Amazing. Your open invite to come back on. I could have asked you so many more questions. Number two, what can we do a giveaway for the audience of all your products? Yeah. Because they might want to rub beef pat on their faces. I just rubbed it all over my hands, you guys, because the hands are, don't forget about the hands. Which one's the one you said to start with if you were going to start from the beginning?

So I brought this one for you. This is for Lauren. It's called the Her Package. And this one is interesting. So it has ovaries, fallopian tubes, uterus, liver, and kidneys. It's a women's formula. I also, the first thing I looked at is what your capsules are into, which is one ingredient. If you look, some of these brands have 15 ingredients in the capsule. Right. And there's no binders in this. It's just desiccated organs. And this one I brought for you, which is whole package. This one has desiccated testicle, blood, and liver in it. And shove that testicle in your mouth, Michael. Try it. And I will have it right now. But how would you start with these? So I would start with three to six capsules a day.

Three to six capsules. Food or no, it doesn't matter if it's food. Doesn't matter if it's food or not. I mean, they're better with a little bit of food. They are food. People always ask me, what supplements do you take, Paul? And I say, I don't take supplements, but these technically are supplements, but they're just desiccated foods. So this is freeze-dried organs. And freeze-dried is different than dehydration. You put it in a machine that lowers the pressure so you can dehydrate. You can take the water out of this at below freezing. So it preserves as many of the nutrients as possible. And this is the one that we just rubbed on our skin. That's the fat. That's the tallow. Got it. And what's interesting about this

one, the whole package for your male listeners, is that all of our supplements at Heart and Soil are informed sports certified. So we tested them for third party, you know, for cleanliness and stuff.

And they all pass except for this one, the whole package, because that has naturally occurring testosterone and other androgens in it. So this isn't anything we added to it.

Would you take this with any, like if I'm taking, like I was going to try Tonga and all that stuff because I just wanted to see it for, you could,

like for two months. You could. Yeah, you can take it with it. Is he just going to i was going to try tonga and all that because i just wanted to see it for um you could like for two months but would you yeah you can take it with it you're just gonna like is he just gonna have a boner the whole time i mean there's worse things in the world no i love a boner have the boner all day long great that sounds fun rub beef fat on your face have a boner for the women out there listening you don't want your man to not have that so you don't want to get to a place where it's like i hope you don't get one of those so every guy needs the whole package because they need to have that extra boost of testosterone. I mean, we talked about this earlier, but there is this epidemic of declining testosterone. You asked me about women's testosterone too.

Women can benefit from testosterone. Testosterone is beneficial for women's sex drive. And I think the testosterone comes from- Women take this? Women can take that too. Yeah. And so testosterone comes from abundance. It comes from enough calories.

It comes from enough sleep. It comes from enough nutrients in our diets to sort of increase that. Testosterone is a signal of abundance. If you don't want a lip dick, go get the whole package from hard soil. The reviews on this are amazing. So like, it's incredible to see how these help people. I'm so a fan of people eating like a real testicle if they want to or real ovaries, but I've never seen it. I've never seen an ovary. I'm so a fan of people eating like a real testicle if they want to or real ovaries, but I've never seen it. I've never seen an ovary. I'm going to take this for a full month and report back. Yeah. Please do. Please do. No, I'll report back to him and tell you how it is. Yeah. I gave that one to Andrew Huberman as well. He loves that one. And it's

just, it's so cool to see that you can give people supplements that help, but this is an on-ramp, right? It's the easiest way. Do you want to do a code? Have you and Huberman done something yet? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. We can do something. Let's do a code for heart and soil. Code skinny. Sure. Can we do skinny testicle? Or is that too hard to spell? Let's just do code skinny.

Let's do code skinny on heartandsoil.com. And then- Heartandsoil.co. .co. That's C-O. He's youthful on the energy. Heartandsoil.co. And then let's, can we give away a bunch of your favorites?

Yeah. Okay. You guys, all you have to do is follow. At Paul Saladino MD on Instagram. And tell us your favorite takeaway from this episode on my latest post at Lauren Bostic. I just can't wait to see what your takeaway is. I'm sure there's a lot of different. And listen, guys, we covered a lot of ground here.

I know you're going to want to hear Paul again, and we'll get, maybe next time we'll get real niche and go into very specific things. We like to kind of like introduce people into Broadway and then get. And then Paul, where can everyone find you? Pimp yourself out all your things. Basically, paulsaladinomd.co is my website at paulsaladinomd on all the socials is where to find me. And I've got a podcast, which you can just search paulsaladinomd and you'll find it. I think you're so amazing because not only are you charismatic and talented, you are very knowledgeable. And we've had a lot of different people on this podcast and you really come with facts and it's, I appreciate it. And like I said, you're invited

back on. I can't wait to come back next time I'm in Austin. We'll do more. Anytime more LA. I'm so, I'm so glad that it helps people, you know, and traveling. I see people in the airport and they say, Oh, I helped me lose weight. Or I had a guy in the airport in San Jose say, it's helped my plaque psoriasis. And that's amazing because if you've ever seen plaque psoriasis, it's the big sort of red scaly thing. Like just intentional diet changes help people. I don't get super wrapped around the axle of doing it dogmatically the way that I say with animal-based. I think it's a good starting point, meat, organs, fruit, honey, raw dairy. But I just want people to know that if they have issues, they're fixable. And intentional dietary and lifestyle

choices can fix these issues because if your doctor doesn't tell you that or your dermatologist doesn't tell you that, they're doing you a disservice. Well, here's what I would say to maybe just give one last thought for people. If you're doing something consistently and you aren't getting the results you want and you're not happy with the results, but you keep doing the same thing, I think it's worth looking into your message or another message and figuring out maybe you got to try something different. And worst case is you could always go back

to what you were doing. Yeah. But why not try something and see if it works? Intentional choices are, that's where the magic is. Yep. Doing something. I must say that you are super glowy

from the beef fat. It looks good, bro. He put beef fat all over his face. I'm going to do it tonight. I'm like Benjamin Button now. Yeah, that's the key to youth. Beef fat on face. It really helps. I think it's the food you eat. You never know what you're going to get from this podcast. As long as you didn't come in here and say I had white testicles on my face. Cheers, man. Thank you, guys. If you guys want to see a visual version, a video version of this show or any of our shows,

head over to our YouTube channel. It's the skinny confidential him and her show.