The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni On Advice For Young Entrepreneurs, & How To Build The Start Up Of Your Dreams

Episode Date: August 7, 2025

#874: Join us as we sit down with Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni –  entrepreneurs, advocates, Stanford grads, & hosts of The Burnouts podcast. As co-founders of Phia, a cutting-edge digital fashion platform, Phoebe & Sophia are reshaping how Gen Z shops & builds brand identity in the digital age. From sealing high-stakes deals to navigating late-night TikTok binges, the duo gets candid about the unfiltered reality of startup life. In this episode, The Burnouts open up about business wins & growing pains, what it really takes to pitch top investors, how to embrace feedback, & the pressure of being young & ambitious females in tech. They get raw, real, & share insight on what it takes to build a digital brand in the modern age.   To Watch the Show click HERE   For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM   To connect with The Burnouts click HERE   To connect with Phia click HERE    To connect with Phoebe Gates click HERE   To connect with Sophia Kianni click HERE   To connect with Lauryn Bosstick click HERE   To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE   Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE   Head to our ShopMy page HERE and LTK page HERE to find all of the products mentioned in each episode.   Get your burning questions featured on the show! Leave the Him & Her Show a voicemail at [phone].   To learn more about Phia and download the app visit https://phia.com.   This episode is sponsored by The Skinny Confidential Your daily routine done better – with The Skinny Confidential Caffeinated Sunscreen. Subscribe today at https://shopskinnyconfidential.com/products/sunscreen and get it delivered right to your door – because great skin doesn’t take days off! This episode is sponsored by Hiya Health Receive 50% off your first order. To claim this deal you must go to http://hiyahealth.com/SKINNY.   This episode is sponsored by ARMRA Go to http://armra.com/SKINNY or enter SKINNY to get 30% off your first subscription order.   This episode is sponsored by Astral Tequila  House Marg Summer is here. Time to stock up! Go to http://astraltequila.com to find Astral near you - and don’t forget the limes! Please Enjoy Responsibly. ASTRAL Tequila. 40% Alcohol per Volume. Diageo , New York, NY.   This episode is sponsored by Fatty15 Fatty15 is on a mission to replenish your C15 levels and restore your long-term health. You can get an additional 15% off their 90-day subscription Starter Kit by going to http://fatty15.com/SKINNY and using code SKINNY at checkout.   This episode is sponsored by Ritual Don’t settle for less than evidence-based support. Get 25% off your first month at http://ritual.com/SKINNY.   This episode is sponsored by The RealReal Get $25 off your first purchase when you go to http://TheRealReal.com/skinny. Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

This is a fun one. Today we have Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kian. on the show. They are the hosts of the podcast, The Burnouts, and their entrepreneurs. And this episode was all about activism, entrepreneurship, digital fashion. We talked all about their childhoods. We unpacked their friendship. We even talked to dating. Anyway, it was fun to sit down with two Gen Z powerhouses who not only have built a future-facing fashion brand, but also to talk to two women who are redefining what it means to be young, outspoken, and unapologetically driven. You may know Phoebe Gates as a fierce reproductive rights advocate and Sophia Keani as the

climate crusader who made history at the UN. And today, they have founded this incredible brand and they co-host the podcast, The Burnouts, like I said. I personally really enjoyed interviewing them. And we did a swap. I am on the Burnouts. I don't do a ton of other podcasts. So this was a fun one to do. On that note, let's welcome Phoebe and Sophia to the show. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. How did you both meet each other? So, you know, like, when you have a really good, like, girlfriend, but, like, they have another girlfriend, so you know everything about that girlfriend's life, but you're, like, not actually super close with her, but you see her and you know everything

about her. So that was our relationship. Lo and behold, we really wanted this, like, triple room, right? So we applied with the other girl, and she ends up, like, not living with us and going to live with her boyfriend instead. So at the last minute, it's the two of us. We don't know each other at all. I seen Sophia. She's a huge climate activist. She'd work for the UN. So I'm like freaking out. I'm like, oh, God, this can be such a boring year. I knew she was sober. I was like throwing away all my fast fashion like tank tops before I moved in with her. And we really didn't know each other well and then ended up becoming super, super close as roommates. So you are working for the UN when you guys come in together. Yes. Similar to my college

experience. No, totally, completely opposite of it. Yeah, so basically, and I guess like to give the context, so me and Phoebe are both really good friends with this one girl, but to live in the building we wanted to live and you need to live in a triple. So it's like, we both wanted to room with her and she's like, you guys should be friends. So then it was like the three of us were supposed to room together. And I thought Phoebe was really cool. She was also doing like reproductive rights activism. And I was doing climate activism. So like I started at a nonprofit and then I was appointed to the UN's youth advisory council. We both had very limited social lives. Yeah, we were both like nerdy and into activism. So I was like, okay, we're going to be friends, but it was really

awkward because we were like friends of a friend. You know, we weren't like friends, friends. So we both moved in and we're like, like, hello. What is in the water, uh, with you in your childhoods? Like what, how does, how do I give Zaza the water that you guys drink? Like you're, you're going to Stanford. Town is just going to be dehydrated? He's not going to get any of this water? It towns too. We have two children. Both of them, but like their girl. I'm talking from a woman's perspective. What are your parents doing to set you both up to attend Stanford, start a podcast, interview Chris Jenner as the first guest. Work at the UN. Work at the UN. Get into activism. And start a company as entrepreneurs. Like what was your childhood

like? Well, our childhoods are very different, right? I come from a huge place of privilege, right? So my dad's Bill Gates. I grew up, you know, watching him build Microsoft. And then my parents, like, my dad retires and they start the foundation together. So I grew up with a ton of opportunities where I knew my education would be paid for. I'm sure a huge part of me getting into Stanford was probably my last name. And I was given, you know, like the activism stuff came to me naturally because my parents would take me on trips to Africa every summer. So I would see the work there. And then when Roe v. Way got overturned, I was like, well, this is a super important issue to me. And I was lucky enough to be able to write an op-ed because of who my family was. So I was kind of born into this position. And then I always

saw, you know, my parents worked super hard. And so I think I got part of that. But Sophia's upbringing is very, very different. She's just, I think, cracked from the womb. I think that's super kind of you. I mean, I grew up in McLean, Virginia, so like in the suburbs of D.C. And so both of my parents were Iranian immigrants, like my mom's a teacher. My dad works for the government. So it was like a very normal, traditional middle class childhood. But, I mean, my parents worked so hard to come to the U.S. from Iran. And I think growing up, I felt an enormous amount of responsibility knowing that I had access to the best education in the world, things they could never dream of. And I mean, growing up, like climate change was a huge issue in my life because in Iran, in the Middle East,

like temperatures are rising more than twice the global average. And I just became very interested in environmental activism. So I started a nonprofit. And then I ended up getting appointed to the UN. And then I applied to transfer to Stanford. But it was just something that I always like, really cared about. And I would definitely say that, like, I just grew up wanting to prove myself and really wanting to make sure I made the most of the opportunities that I had been given because I felt super lucky. But I think what was so awesome about me and Phoebe is that despite definitely, like, coming from different backgrounds, there was so much that we had in common just from the perspective of, like, we both really just wanted to prove ourselves, like, for different

reasons, but we both had like this undying desire to create positive change in the world, like to work on our activism and also like to create things. And I think that's why like we immediately, even though in the beginning it was really awkward and we were like, I don't know how well we're going to get along, we immediately became really good friends and bonded over like our parents' divorces, bad high school breakups. Like there was just a lot that we had in common. There's also like this, a lot of Stanford is like there's just so much imposter syndrome when you show up because you think like you're a smart person and then you realize like everyone else there is way smarter than you. And so there's like this kind of like insecurity that comes when you get

there. It's like, I need to do more. I need to do this. And I actually don't think that was a super bad thing for us because it forced us to like lock ourselves in our dorm room and be like, well, what if we could do this or what if we could try that? That is one thing I didn't have to face at the University of Arizona. I did not feel like the dumbest person there. Oh, really? No, I felt like I was top of the heap. But then again, I might feel that way anywhere. You never know. I think you would definitely, you would, you guys would have, yeah, you guys would be great.

Do you feel on that thread growing up with a last name like you have, do you feel a certain kind of pressure to perform in maybe a kind of way that maybe the three of us don't feel, right? Like I imagine, listen, nobody's going to, I mean, you've dealt with this. It's like the tiniest violin when people are crying about their privilege, but you're not. But I imagine that's a pretty intense pressure to live up to a last name like Gates. I think, yeah. I mean, I think that Sophia feels it as well, like, in a completely different lane. But I think, like, for me, like, yes, I feel that pressure 100%, but, like, what a privilege to feel that, right?

Like, I think I'd be so bored if I didn't feel like, oh, I need to do something or I need to have, like, a purpose. And I've been so lucky that I've been given by my parents, like, I don't, I can focus on what I care about and what I actually want to do and what I want to create. And so I've been put in like this frankly, like really privileged, awesome position. But yeah, there is pressure to that. And I kind of honestly like that. And I think that's a really good thing. Because otherwise, I could just rot on my couch if my parents hadn't given me that. With both of you, though, there is parallels that your parents were immigrants and they wanted you to to rise to a certain occasion. Did both of your parents want you to like the best of the best schools? Was that, did you talk about that in your

household? Or was that not even a thing? Honestly, for me, not really. I mean, my dad applied when he was like 18 to come to the United States. There's like a TOEFL and all these exams. And then he did community college here. He like transferred to a university he was excited about. So I think education was always the number one thing in my household that my parents were like, if you want to be successful in life, you need to prioritize your education. Like that's what's going to open doors for you. so I think it was always something that was important to me. I don't think my parents were like, you need to go to this school or anything like that. I think that was something that I just personally, it was always my dream to go to Stanford. I knew that that was the school that was my dream school. I think the only thing, the question for me was like, how am I going to pay for this? And I think that was part of the reason why I started working really young in high school to like be able to pay for my own tuition and to like take on different jobs. But I think that like ultimately what was really important, for me and Phoebe is that at the end of the day, like what I was really excited about when it came to like why I think we became such good friends was that Phoebe wanted to create something

that was like adding value to the world. And I thought that that was what I was most excited about because that's what I wanted to do. And so I think that it was like we just both had the same shared vision of the reason why we're at this school is because we want to take the skills and the classes and the things that we're learning and turn it into something bigger and like something that people will be excited about. And so we, like, really just bonded over this shared love for fashion, also talking about how, like, unsustainable the fashion industry is, like, a love for secondhand fashion. And, like, that's why we decided to start our company. I remember a little differently. I remember we were arguing about clothes all the damn time as roommates. She'll say I stole

her crap. I'll say she stole mine. And then we were, like, obsessed with online shopping, but felt pretty guilty about it because we were, you know, we wanted to buy stuff to look good for spring. And then we realized, like, oh, there isn't like a tool that exists that could just instantly, like, be our shopping assistant. And I think it took us a bit to realize we could actually, like, start a company or, you know, that this could actually be a career for us. Actually, we got rejected from the first entrepreneurship class we applied to. Like, there's this one that's really prestigious at Stanford called, like, The Lean Launchpad, like, flat out rejected, like not even bumped around two. Like, we were flat out rejected. And we were feeling really

bad for ourselves. And so we joined the admit all entrepreneurship class. And that's when we were first, we were like, oh, we could actually have this be a real business. How did you guys, even have this kernel of an idea to begin with? Was it like, how did it sort of like the momentum? How did it transpire? Yeah. I mean, it really started with, we had talked about this on our podcast, but our first idea was actually building a smart tampon. So like a Bluetooth tampon that would give you insights on like your hormones and stuff every month. First, we were like, wouldn't it be genius if you didn't have to go get a blood test and you could just use your tampon and get all these insights about yourself? And then when we got to the part of how would the technology work,

we couldn't even get there because people pointed out to us rightfully so that there was like no business model there. And frankly, we just weren't the right people to build it. And so then we were like, okay, let's do something else. And then we probably hit the drawing board like, I don't know, 18 times with really, really bad ideas until we were like, oh, well, what if we can make a shopping assistant? Okay, that sounds pretty cool. Do you call Bill and say, hey, Bill? I actually did. I actually did. What does Bill say? He was like, okay. I don't think I'm your target consumer and I was like well no shit dad you're not my target consumer you don't have a vagina so then he was like okay I can connect you with like a doctor who I know and I was like okay so I talked to this doctor and she was actually doing really really cool stuff about like you know could you use paths to detect if someone had like an STI or an STD and like the developing world and so they wouldn't have to go in and get like labs done so that was really interesting but you know talking to people about like the tampon industry itself was really interesting but you know talking to people about like the tampon industry itself was really interesting but then very quickly we realized that there just was like no legs, this idea.

We took apart one tampon and we were like, this is too much. I was like picturing you guys in like lab coats and some special like room. We did hit up the lab. No, there was a team at Stanford that's actually working on building something, but they're in the medical school. So they're actually legitimate. We, I'm pretty sure we did a Zoom with them actually because we were interested and we were like, they can build this.

We, you guys cannot. You got it. Yeah, you know, when you guys started saying the word tampon, you kind of said this, you alluded to this. Was there like a weird taboo kind of energy around getting into the tampon industry or not at all? I think no, because like for me, my like background is, you know, the first op I wrote was about Roe v. Wade being overturned and about, you know, women in Rwanda who were forced to have children in a super young age and then ostracized from their families. So reproductive freedom and health is something that I've always spoken about. And saying the word tampon to me like means nothing.

So I think particularly being at Stanford as well, like people are very open to that. There's also like a great group of girls that's actually making a tampon for performance athletes where it, you know, it doesn't fucking leak. That's an awesome idea. They should 100% do that. A Bluetooth tampon, I'm confused about it. It was a bad idea. You know what, though? I find that the most successful entrepreneurs have to throw it on the wall and see what sticks and pivot and adjust based on that. And I believe that if you guys didn't start with that idea, you wouldn't be to this idea. So it's like you have to go. through this process. I say it's like, for me, it's like I have to wrap my head around it before I get to the other side. And you have to go through all these different iterations to get there. Does that make sense? Like, I feel like you wouldn't be doing what you're doing without the Bluetooth tampon. Sam, write down Bluetooth condom for me. I'll circle back to that. I'll circle back to that way. When are you wearing a condom? That's true. There's not, I'm not the target audience. But, you know, if it spoke back to me and I could look at my phone. Enough about your

penis. Can I get back to the question? Give me my performance metrics after. You know, who knows? But I feel like you have to like to be able to iterate to get to where you guys are now. You needed to go through that. I mean, I feel like we're still going through it. I think that's just how it is when you're a startup. The whole goal is to continue to ship random things and try things until you feel like something is working. And even when we had the original idea for FIA, I mean, we built a desktop browser extension that no one used because no one shops on their computer. And we learned so much from that. I mean, we spent months working on that and then realized we needed to pivot and focus on our mobile app and a mobile browser extension. And even now, like, we're still iterating. We're still changing the product a lot. And so I think that was just a good lesson of obviously the first idea you have isn't going to be the one that you work on. Even now, like the idea that we have right now, I'm sure is going to continue to change and develop over the next few months. I mean, look at, I was just listening to a podcast on Thomas Edison. How many times? it took him to get to the light bulb. It took him like a thousand times, right? Michael, you're the history nerd. I don't know. I think it was 936. No, I took him like a thousand times to

get to the light. It's not like I guess what I'm trying to tell the audience is it's, if you're, if you have an idea, it's not always the first idea. And sometimes the first idea is iterated on a hundred times before you get to the right idea. I would tell anyone who is starting something, the smartest thing that we did, which actually was a complete mistake, was we had at the time we didn't have an office and we were living together. So we had a bunch of our girlfriends, you know, like literally in our dorm room. And they started roasting the desktop extension as one does. Like, well, this is cute, but like I don't shop on my having laptop. And really quickly, then we started to stay with them, like, okay, well, what would you want? What do you hate about shopping? What would be useful? And that's how

the product ended up, we ended up scrapping months of work and completely restarting and doing mobile. And so now we do every other week. Thank God women in New York, like myself, love a little wine and pizza. We just have girls come to our office and we say, hey, rip this app apart. And they do. And then we learn, okay, this is what we need to fix. These are bugs. This is what sucks. Okay, this is what we need to develop. Okay, this is what we need to develop. And I think anyone who's like, great job, girls, whether it's a business or like, they're resigning. Like, you should have just have just all your friends come in and give feedback. But not your closest friends. That's the mistake we made at the beginning is we were just sending stuff to like our moms and sisters. We'd be like, great job, girls. Like, good job. They just want to blindly support anything, which is nice, but yeah, not useful. You're not, you're, even though you're like the closest person in my life, I will rip that shit apart. To get a thumbs up from Michael Bostick is like, who, what's the biggest rip you've done of something where? I mean, I just similar to some of your friends, I want to be, I view it as being like more, more loving and caring to actually like give the truth so that somebody can reach their fullest potential. And listen, I may be wrong a lot of the time, but I wouldn't want to

sugarcoat and then have somebody do something and have it not be as good as it could be because I was scared to, you know, I think that's nice. She's actually saying we struggle with in our relationship because I'm way more emotional than Sophia. You would agree, no? I would agree with that. And so she's like, I'm giving you this feedback as a compliment to you and it's a compliment to our relationship how close we are that I can give this feedback. I'm like, I hear that, but it doesn't feel that. Sophia, I have a tip for you. One of my oldest friends told me, you have to say, are you at requests for coaching. Because some people just want to vent, they want to cry, they want to be emotional. And when you ask that, you immediately let the guard down. So when he's having a tantrum,

I say, are you at request for coaching? And there's been times where he says, no. I say no every time and you still go. Oh, wow. I said, I'm not. I said absolutely not. She just still does anyway. We do like monthly like reflection checkpoints. I love that. It's important if you're going to be in an intimate relationship, not just like the way we are, but as business partners, which is very intimate. And you guys, I'm sure, no, and are figuring out even more, the more you do things. Like, you have to be able to have that short form, honest, very blunt feedback. Because if not, like, what are we all doing? If you guys were to describe what you're doing in a really digestible way to our audience, how would you describe it? It's basically like Google flights

but fashion. So basically, as you shop, we have this mobile browser extension. that like say you're looking at a $200 stod bag, it will basically tell you that exact same bag is $100 on Poshmark. So it finds like all the best prices from across the internet for that item that you're looking at instantly. So you can basically save time and money. But you basically you download it as an app and then it you can add it to your browser. And then so while you're shopping you don't need to do anything. Like you just press on the little shopping assistant and then it'll do the price check for you to see if the price is too high and if there's cheaper options. available. That's so smart. That's so funny. There's this vest that I want and I've searched it all over

the internet and I can't find it. But I feel like if I used your app, the app would find maybe like a used version on some site. Right? You should try it. I'm going to try it right down. I'm going to. I've been looking for the specific vest. I can't find it anywhere. I'm going to see if your app can find it for me. You're in the vest market? No, I'm not well, not right now. I'm, I want to see this back. I am planning for my comeback post-pregnancy and I am telling you it's over for all you bitches out there. I am coming back with the tightest most lifted ass in a vest. I don't know about a vest though. This is a cute vest. All right. I'm going to, this is an opportunity for me to provide. I really want to see this. It's a beautiful vest. We're going to find it. We're going to find it. If you guys find me the

vest, she's getting the fucking best. I'm sorry. We should all provide feedback on. Maybe it's a good vest. I don't know. Vests are hard to pull off. How can we be conscious consumers when we're shopping? I think it's really about buying less and buying intentionally. So that's one thing that we actually messed up with originally was our tool would only show secondhand. And we realized very quickly, that's not always what the consumer wants. And if you are going to buy an item firsthand, you're buying an item that you know is worth the price. It's going to hold its value. And so we can actually show you also whether an item holds its value or not. So you're always buying at the best price possible, whether there's a discounted version on sales somewhere else or there's

a secondhand version that we know is an 80% carbon reduction or you're making an investment to buy something firsthand that you know is going to hold your value. But oftentimes, like, if you're shopping fast fashion and we can show you, hey, this thing's going to lose half its value in a day and, hey, here's a cheaper one in the secondhand market. Even if you don't convert there and you're not buying it secondhand, maybe you'll consider buying something that's a little bit higher or a little bit nicer of an item in terms of its material. And so you're actually buying less at the end of the day. You know, a lot of the secondhand stuff for guys is going to be Michael's old boots.

Michael just got into putting his stuff on the refined. This is true. I thought I'm on the real real. No, you were on the real real. You're also on the refined. We have you on both. And he's been selling his clothes like hot cakes. No, be honest.

You've made me purged my stuff. You got rid of all my stuff. Now it's out there just being pawned off to everyone who has access to it. All my favorite stuff is just gone. No, I don't. feel bad for, I don't feel bad for that. And Miles, your brother, I see you. Sometimes I show up and he's in my clothes that I didn't even know I lost. That's good though. He's being conscious, right? Exactly. It's sustainable. He's using that instead of buying something new. I'm doing my part for the

planet. You are. This is such a good question for you guys. I sometimes deal with this. Maybe I don't know if it's in the same way or, or different. But how do you guys deal with being young females who are constantly underestimated, especially in tech? Because I'm sure you guys walk in and there's maybe some men in suits that you have to convince. Well, how do you guys deal with that? I mean, I think it's more about if you're trying to convince someone, like, you're probably opening the wrong door. Like, there are other people to talk to. And ultimately, like, you should talk to people who understand your value and who understand, like, you're worthy of respect. And I think that's been something that's been really awesome with even navigating investors and all of that.

like the incredible women that we've brought into the fold like Sarah Blakely and Chris Jenner like they're incredible and they believe in our value as young women and so I think it's really important to surround yourself with people like that who actually uplift you, bring you up and make you understand that what you're saying is actually of value and that what you're building is something exciting like you need to talk to the people who get it we weren't going to spend all of our time trying to convince the old white men who didn't shop and who didn't get it to get it when we could talk to the girls who got it

which I mean I'm sure you're super fashionable and you would have got him you would have got it. You would have got it. You would have got it but some people did not get it. Hold on I'm going to go under the fucking table now. I'm literally crying right now. I'm just kidding. I get what you're saying. Yeah. He is. He's an old white man. I will say I'm on the cusp of moving towards

the old white males group but I feel... No, we're talking like over like 65. Like those guys, we're not going to explain how the browser extension, like works, etc. Like, yeah, Michael gets it. One thing that does really piss me off is that I think a lot of people think that... And I think this is something we struggled with too. Like when we were first starting out and we had to like let people go or tell someone, hey, you're underperforming. Like, there's always this trope that a woman's a bitch if she does that or she lays down the law.

And I used to say sorry for everything. Like even if I was two minutes life, so I'm so sorry. Even when you don't mean you're sorry. I think learning that you just have to recognize that this is like your professional self versus your personal self, I think was really, really important. Michael and I talk about this a lot. It's all so hard to let go someone when you're so young. I've had this problem like with employees.

Like there's a weird dynamic. Like for instance, if you were like a 60 year old in a huge office in Park Avenue, it's a lot easier to like let someone go as opposed to. being fresh out of college, running a company, letting someone go. It's a different dynamic. Do you know what I mean? 100%. And when we first raised money, I think a trope we had. And I'm saying there are some people like on our team who are older who are experts and we need them always hire for what you don't know because we have so many weaknesses that we hire for. But we had this trope when we first raise capital that we were like, we only need to hire people who are more senior than us who have,

you know, eight plus years of experience in the field that they're in. And we learned very quickly. that a lot of those people were not a fit. And it became a relationship where, you know, like, we weren't respected versus we actually needed more like young talent at that time who was like hungry and is just like, well, actually, I have no idea how to do that, but I'm going to stay in the office still 4 a.m. and figure it out. Right. And so that was like a big, big, like, frankly, mistake that we made that we had to learn from very quickly.

I would also say as the old white man at the table. That there are. Chris Kringle. That there are, and I would just say this. stupid assholes of every gender age and the group right there there's just sometimes just people

that like man, woman there's just some stupid assholes out there 100%. But the problem is we only skewed where we were like had blinders on where we're like we can't hire anyone our own age like we can't hire anyone younger than us we only need to hire people who have eight plus years of experience

and then we had to just open it up and realize oh wait there's actually really great people everywhere at every age and we need to like why are we doing that we made that mistake. Yeah, enthusiasm and like a figure-it-out can-do attitude. Like sometimes these older people, like I'd be careful, I'm a really young, sorry.

You know, sometimes people come and they're used to having these big teams and groups and assistants and people that report to them and all this. And then you get to an environment that's a new company, new startup. It's like, where's all my people? It's like, no, we need you to be scrappy, buddy. We need you to like get it together. And I think that in relation to what you're talking about with your media specifically, I've had much greater luck personally with younger people who are enthusiastic about the business,

who get the vision, who are passionate about it, who are excited to stay after and get with the community and the group. And, you know, I would take that kind of attitude over experience any day because you can always get to the experience stuff later as the business matures. I was going to say, I think really just to get to the essence of your question, which is just what it's like being a young woman in tech. my comment was more towards like the people that we encountered who were asking really inappropriate questions, like what's going to happen to your company when you have kids or asking things of that nature, which were really inappropriate. And I think we're only asked of us because we were young women or asking, is this really your main commitment? Are you really going to be working on this company? Like, do you want to be influencers? Is that what this is about? And I think that that is really what I was getting at. And there was definitely like a specific archetype of that type of person, but you're right. I mean, I think that type of bias can come from women. It can come from men. But it's just important to know, like, there are totally people who might have a preconceived

notion of you because of the way you look, because of the way that you present online. What's important is to find the people who don't believe that, who don't have those preconceived notions, and then to know that they're the people that you want on your team. And so I think it's not worth a second of our time. It's not worth a second of anyone's time trying to convince. someone to believe that they're worthy when that comes from within and it comes from people who actually are also worthy of your respect. Quick break to talk about one of our favorite partners, one of our favorite supplements,

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I am in love once again. Don't worry, Lauren. It's not with another woman. It is with a straw tequila. This has quickly become my go-to tequila of the summer. It is so versatile. I'm making all of my margaritas with this. I'm doing my tequila sodas with this.

And, of course, my famous Paloma. This tequila has got such a strong place in my heart. Because here's the thing, it is versatile, it is tasteful, and it doesn't break the bank. I've been gifting this to my friends. I've been gifting it to family. And more importantly, I've been drinking it all summer long and really enjoying my time doing so. So let's talk about a straw. I've been sharing more and more about a straw on this podcast and on my social platforms.

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www.a.com to find a stroll near you and don't forget the limes. Please enjoy responsibly. Astral tequila, 40% alcohol per volume, Diageo, New York, New York. I think we need to give some hot tips of when people are in an interview. I don't think it's appropriate to ask personal questions about, is that appropriate or am I like dated. To ask, what are you going to do when you have kids? That feels like a really intense question to be asking in a job interview. You're looking at me for this? Yeah. No, they're talking, she's talking about when you were pitching, right? When you were putting in your, oh, the investors asked you. I thought you were saying the people that you were hiring were asking. I was like, wow.

That's still an intense question, though, as an investor. You don't think so? No, it's inappropriate, for sure. For sure. Let me just blankly say that. But we in our lane face this kind of stuff, too. remember with whenever we like oh you guys are a couple what happens if we do this oh yeah they've asked what happens if you get divorced you know i think i was like don't worry i'll handle it but one thing that i agree with you on completely is it is a complete waste of time to try to convince those kind of people with those thought patterns like they just i i don't speak ill of them i don't think that they're the wrong that they are bad ideas i just think they're not the right fit and they're and they're not your people, right? Exactly. Go to the people that are your people that get it, that are excited

about. They're going to be true partners that believe in you as an individual and as operators and as partners. You know, like, whenever I, we were met with those kind of conversations, no matter what kind of resume or background or achievements the person has, like, I write them off and say, let's go to the next one. Yeah. You know what I mean? That's crazy that they are saying that to you, as investors. I think, like, asking about kids, you're like, let me get through today. I mean, we're like 23, like 22. Oh, Jesus. Christ. Like, let's just. Just like, let me get through this episode. That's like a lot. How did you pitch Sarah and Chris Jenner? How did you approach them? How did you pitch them? Give the audience some tips on how to pitch as you've pitched to two of the strongest female founders out there. Yeah, I mean, I think for us, it was really about both Sarah and Chris are very involved in fashion. And they both deeply understood and had a love for secondhand and vintage shopping.

So, for example, Chris Jenner has Kardashian Closet. So she's actually been in the vintage space for years. And so I think for us, it was really speaking to her as for like thinking about the concept of, okay, imagine someone is shopping on a website. And then that item is available on Kardashian Closet for a fraction of the price. It's a no-brainer that someone would want to purchase the secondhand item that is almost the exact same condition but a lower price. And then I think for us it was also about explaining that we had thought through like

the unit economics of the business and that it was an affiliate model, that there was other companies that had operated in a similar fashion, and that they were able to become profitable, had multi-billion dollar acquisitions. And so we really just walked them through the business plan. We walked them through it as though they were a consumer. And they both were like, this is a product that makes sense and this is something that we would use. And we love secondhand fashion. We understand, I mean, it's projected to grow to, I want to say like over 40 billion by 2028, like the online secondhand fashion industry. And so they believed in our vision and also of this longer term vision of really what we wanted to build and what we want to build is this

AI shopping assistant where it can accompany you on your journey. And the core question we're trying to answer is, should I buy this? Which is something that everyone thinks. And so I think that us explaining to them like this is where we're starting and this is where we see the business growing. Like we want this to be an AI shopping assistant anytime someone is thinking about making a purchase, it should inform them on whatever it is they care about. Starting first with price, which is the thing that most consumers care about the most, starting with price and then continuing to expand to whatever else it is that consumers are like care about. For example, if I asked my shopping assistant something and I asked like, should I buy it? If it's according

to my preferences, it should tell me no at a certain point. And so I think that that's where we want the technology to go. Like that's where we want this company to continue to grow. And so I think for us, it was just really about giving them like the honest picture of where we wanted to see things going and where we were starting. And they both got it to your point. The other thing is like to back up, like they were not our first pitches, right? Like practice, practice, practice. Our first pitch, like if I think about it for too long, I could cry. It luckily was like a friend of a friend who worked at a firm and he was willing to take a call with us. Like kindly, we pitched for 35 minutes. We did not let this guy talk. We both answered the same questions. We talked over each other.

It was horrible. And then after that, luckily, we had someone else in the room. We had recorded it for our mentor. And they said, this is trash. And we quickly learned to then find, you know, people who'd raised capital before. And we'd say, hey, could we please get on a 30 minute call with you? And we will do our pitch for you. And then just at the end, can you just give us 10 minutes of raw honest feedback of what you thought about our pitch? What was good? What was bad? And so we did that probably like 30 times with like family friends. Anyone we could. could get connected to who'd raised before completely outside of our space. And we wouldn't even ask them for feedback on the product, but feedback on, okay, how was our pace? Did we talk too fast? Did we talk over each other? Okay, what are questions we should watch out for? And so by the time we're going to like these people that we knew were like are like, you know, we really want these people to invest. We already had like practice and taken all of like the missed steps. The deck had completely transformed itself. And through that process, we'd like learn, okay, this is what the product is going to look like. And here's where, okay, Sophia's best to answer.

this question, I'm best to answering this question. Here's how we actively explain like the vision and the business model. Did you pitch to your dad and what did he tell you to do? So I actually, I had talked to my dad early on, but it was really important for me not to raise for my family because I wanted to go out kind of like had Sophia had said like proving myself. Totally makes sense. And so I really wanted to go out and have like a blue chip investor that would put money behind via that was respected in the tech space. So that was really, really important for us. Now on those practice pitches, 100% I pitched my mom and dad. But again, they're my parents.

I know, but don't they like give you like all this like, it only should be 10 minutes or do they have this feedback or no? They were too nice to me, to be honest. But I do remember after like some first like tough pitches where like we got really honest feedback, people were like we're not interested. Like I call my mom like crying one time and she was like, girl, this is business. You better like, I'm here to support you. I love you. But like if you want to do business, like you got to take some nose and you should not be crying after a no. You should be going to your next call.

Like you should have these back to back. And I was like, whoa, I'd never like really seen that side of my mom because you have to imagine like she grew up in Dallas. She went to Duke. She was one of two women in her entire four years. She was doing computer science at that time. She goes to Microsoft and is the boss of tons and tons of people. And so I hadn't really seen like this business side of her. I'd heard her voice on, you know, I'd always been my mother. And so I hadn't like seen that side of her. And to get that feedback. I was like, you know what? You're right. Like if I don't want to get rejected, then why am I pitching something that's going to be hard to get like, you know, that's going to to be tough. A business, you're supposed to get a bunch of nose. That's the reality. And so I think learning to take that and then be like, okay, what about that pitch do we need to adapt? I think that's really good advice that your mom said. I just want to know when you did your pitch to Sarah and Chris, how refined was it? So you mentioned the first pitch was 35 minutes. You said you guys were talking over each other. What does the pitch look like when it's nice and refined and edited down? Oh, my God, completely different. I mean, are we talking 10 minutes? Are we talking 15? Like five. We were like a well-oiled machine. We had like a 10-page deck. We were super succinct. I had one slide. Phoebe had another slide. We had like a Google doc in the back of questions that they might ask us, like talking points that we wanted to hit. By the end of it, we were like deck and pitching GPT basically. But I think that that's what we realized was that ultimately, I mean, raising capital is a really big deal. And you need to be super prepared and you need to want to do.

do it. And so I think we, we, in the beginning, were kind of like, oh, like, what are we doing? We used to go to investors. We were like, oh, we don't know if we're raising. You should not talk to investors unless you're raising. It's a waste of everybody's time. Yeah. And so once we were like, okay, we want to raise this money. We want, we know we want this much. Then we could be really, really diligent in saying, like, we want to raise this much money. It's all going to go towards these expenses. And like, here's how it's going to generate ROI for the business. Like, we had a super, I feel like I've wiped it out of my memory now because it was such an intense period of time, but we spent weeks preparing. And then when we were like, okay, today's

the day we're starting the fundraise, then we were really intentional about like banging out all the pitches, taking the nose, no sweat, continuing on until we were like, this is the group of people that we want to rock with. You have been told how many knows? I mean, like the majority of my life is nose. I mean, I think like any, any entrepreneur. For 10 years. I think like, you had to put, you had to refine your deck for me. You know, there's two. You know, there's two. There's like two common themes of doing this show for 10 years. If I'm speaking to this audience and aspiring business creators or entrepreneurs, like one first, you have to like launch fast and get it out there and you have to get the feedback and be willing to take it either from friends or colleagues or even customers and you have to be willing to adjust. You're never launching a perfect thing. As you guys know, it's just impossible. And the other thing is you just have to get very comfortable with nose and failures. I mean, like if I ever was going to write a book, it would primarily be all of. of the nose and failures and hurdles to get to where we've gotten to. I mean, like, that's just the, I think that the one problem that I have with school. Yeah. Is it's this past,

well, I have a lot of problems, but like the big problem. I think school is, it's great to be educated and to get an incredible education. And if you can do it in a prestigious place where you can make connections, even better. If you can get it paid for by your parents, even, even better. But a lot of these platform or places, they teach you this, like, kind of, it's, it's all about achieving all the time. Like when you fail, it's a failing. Most of creating a business and most of doing anything in life is constant failure. And then you work through that to get to that gem of success. And I think like it doesn't, school sometimes doesn't do a good enough job of hardening people to that reality. So when I see young people, like I got no and I cried and I

quit, I'm like, well, like the first, like you're going to get a hundred other nose, right? Like, that's just, that's par for the course. That's normal. You want the nose. That's how you refine. You guys feel like you always both know when you're like, okay, we're doing something wrong. we need to like pivot the business or has there ever been like moments where you guys are like you disagree on that? Like what does that look like? I'm super curious. I think that we've gotten so many nose and we've had to pivot the business so many times it's a part of it. It's a part of it's a part of refining and editing. You know what it is? I think if you have the perspective of most of the time it's going to not be right and it's just a constant improvement, then you don't really

look at it as like, oh, it's a failure. It's just like part of it. Like if you want to create a beautiful piece of art, like you start and it's not like it's not just perfect ever. It just, it takes constant iterations. Also with relationships, and you guys know this with friendships, too. It's constantly, you're constantly editing. Like, imagine if you got into an intimate relationship with, you know, a partner and you had one fight and like, oh, this thing's a disaster. Like, throw it away.

We wouldn't be co-founders. We fight every day. We have, we just have a system to it now. We fight every single day. We do? Yeah, of course. What do we fight about today? I don't know.

You were yelling about me about, like, the chili pad guts or the eight sleep had got, like, you know, like a dog peed on or something. You know, like something. Sophia, what we fight about today? But, you know, I was running late. I think this, I think the veneer of perfection is a real hindrance to people in, in life in general. Take it in business and personal relationships and raising children. Like, you know, a lot of parents, especially that they want to paint this perfect picture of figuring.

Like, there's so many things that you learn as a new parent. Like, okay, I did that wrong or you feel bad about this. Like, it's just a constant iteration. I think that you guys should write a book about your journey. of your company like in the moment and call it the burnouts and write a book on everything you guys are learning because i think that people need to hear more from really young female founders who are going through this process i think you guys would be the perfect people to write this book i feel like you we need a book we'll do it with dear media let's do it yeah do a book

that like shows shows the process because i think of course you guys are going to be successful you are successful. I see huge things for you guys, but I think people would love to see the process. You know, we did do a book publishing deal and we made it a bestseller. Maybe we should get into the publishing world, Sam, maybe. That's where all these authors come now to promote their books anyways. What are you talking about? Do your media did that? Yeah. Oh, okay. But I'm thinking now maybe I'm like Margo take notes. Maybe we should have a publishing deal here. If you guys would do it. If you guys do a publishing arm, we'll do it. I really could like see a book in your future. Okay. So how is Gen Z responding to what you guys are doing?

Are they loving watching this through the podcast? Like, are you guys talking about it on the podcast? How are they responding to everything you're doing? I mean, I think it's been really exciting that, like, I want to say two days after we launched, we hit, like, number 21 on the top shopping charts. And we've pretty much, like, consistently stayed in the top 100 since then. And honestly, we had no idea whether or not when we launched anyone would download it. Like, we were genuinely so scared.

We thought, okay, maybe we'll get a couple. hundred people to download it off of Instagram. And so I think seeing that thousands of girls are now downloading it, they're reaching out to us and they're also giving us advice. Like, candidly, they're telling us, where this is buggy? We like this. I don't like this. Like I think that for us, it's like, this is the very beginning and we're constantly learning. And for us, it's really just been about understanding that we want to grow with our audience. That's why we started the podcast the exact same time that we launched the company, because exactly like what you were saying, we wanted people to be with us from the very beginning.

And so the hope is that in a year, in two years, the company is completely different. Like, the product has totally evolved. It's become so much better. And we're so thankful to the girls who reach out to us, who tell us what's horrible. Like, that's really what has been super helpful is we now have thousands of data points to be able to better understand people's behavior, seeing where they're purchasing, where they're falling off. So it's been awesome. And we just want to continue to learn and to realize where we can. improve and deliver the best experience possible for girls who want to shop smarter.

It's also funny. This industry is kind of antiquated. Shopping really hasn't changed since we moved online and we got like Netaporte, which is amazing. And we got like Amazon, but like there's nothing that tells you if something's a good deal or not. There's no tool that actually delivers to you personalized shopping recommendations or insights or deals unless you're going to go out and hire a personal shopper. So the fact that this audience, like there isn't that much it's actually built for this girl. Like we look at girls as society who love to shop. We kind of look down on it as like kind of a pesky behavior instead of being like there are some girls who are actually really damn good shoppers they're always getting the best deal they're shopping really smart

oh what if we could just make a tool that makes that easier so you don't have to spend like two hours searching for your spring fling dress because you have so much other shit to do like so that for us is kind of exciting because I think that even when we're like okay that feature wasn't that great okay that's buggy we got to improve that okay we need to add you know image search we need to add price drops like this audience is hungry to have these new things because they're already naturally doing it in their own workflows and just checking to see if that item is dropped in price themselves. How does one prep for their first interview on a mic with the matriarch Chris Jenner? Crying. A lot of crying. Yeah. Whoa. Like that is, that's, I think it's good. It's good to

throw people in the deep end. Like, I mean, I think, like, you start with Chris Jenner. It's like, you, you guys started with, like, the best. It's like, I think it causes you to level up an every area with who you're interviewing. I think it causes you to just kind of get pushed in. What do you guys do to prep? I mean, we literally spent the entire weekend thinking, what are the best questions we can ask? If she responds like this, what's a good thing for us to share? What's a good follow-up question? Is she wearing a caftan? We had no idea what she was going to wear. I mean, I think for us, we just, it was the same philosophy as the raise. It is always better to be over-prepared. And we were as prepared as we could have been and we went in. And

she was incredible. She was so sweet, so delightful and so genuinely interesting, had such good advice. We honestly didn't ask maybe like 90% of the questions. We did so many questions we wanted to ask. But it was like because there was such an organic dialogue, it really felt like we were just talking to a mentor and someone who genuinely wanted to help us. And so I think that it was, we over-prepared. And I think that made us feel confident. going in. But once we were actually doing the interview, it just all really flowed organically. Like, she made it easy. She's so major. I love her. What was some advice that she shared that really resonated with you guys? The biggest one that I really took away was she said that she's involved

in none of their creative process. Like when Skims is created, when Kaislipkrit is created, like she's not involved in any of that. Like her kids ask her to leave the room. They kick her out when anything creative is going on. But then she's brought back in when a contract needs to be redlined to make sure there's a way out for the girls. That, I've been talking to Michael about this. That is creative. A deal. Yeah, that's true.

I said to Michael yesterday, I said the thing that you're so good at is you're so creative with a deal. It's unbelievable to me how creative you get with a deal. So I would, what do you mean by that? Like, how? Yeah, Michael. Yeah, Michael, we need a little of this. I'm not going to, I'm not going to call Michael when we get a know next time.

Give us some advice. I don't know if that, I mean, listen, that's a very nice. nice compliment. And when she said it to me, I've, like, been thinking about it. I just, I think, I just, I, I, I think that people have creative brains in different ways. Yeah, so Chris is creative. I don't see how to take some of the things she takes out of her mind with her brand or her business on the product side or even on the visual and like make, I, I, I, you could not get me to do it. It wouldn't work. My brain doesn't work that way. But I could see how you can weave different pieces and different parts of either entities or machines or capital.

or structures together that create opportunities, I think, to create bigger wins for either those pieces being put together or greater opportunity. We give an example. Yeah, I'll give you an example. So say someone wants to come do a podcast at Dear Media, okay? Michael's brain is 30 steps ahead.

The podcast to him is like, it's like a tentacle off the octopus. Do you know what I mean? No, that's not a good example. Oh, no. Oh, never mind. I think it's more of like... What's a good example? Do a good example.

Come on. There's so many things I could say right now. Give a good example. I think my brain works in a way of like how do you unlock new capital resources or new opportunities by weaving different agreements and different pieces of different businesses together so that one plus one equals six or four instead of two. Okay. So you have the burnouts.

What are you doing? Like what are you thinking? So like I'm not interested in talking to you guys about your show and your ad inventory. Like that's why I start because like most people like come to a a podcast business, like, oh, like, what do you can do to sell my ads? Well, that's boring. I could do that in my sleep. Like, I'm not saying to be an asshole, but like, we've done that for years. I know how to do it. I used to do it for Lauren and I, like that, to be honest, selling ads for

shows is pretty easy. Getting premium rates and getting them to the right place so the market digest them is also easy. My thing for you is, I want to know how there's a brand that exists beyond this. And if there's a book at some place, and if there's a business that get weaved, and if the success of that show leads to more opportunities that then unlock other opportunities. I want to think down the line of that because for you, you guys can go and take your show and the numbers of your show and take it to different places that'll promise you all sorts of different things based on like what the show is doing. But a lot of these people are very short-sighted and like taking something and turning it into a much greater brand or business.

And they're also not thinking about other things that exist adjacently that they can marry to that thing to make it more valuable and more worth your time. Like what would a bigger brand look like? Well, for me, it's like, and again, like not being so familiar with your existing business, I imagine, and we never, again, like, never talked, but I imagine most people would say, okay, like, you're going to do this, and then we're going to put you in this agreement, and it'll be a year or two, and we're going to take this amount of percentage, and like, we're going to sell these and, like, and like their value prop is we'll probably feature you on some of our channels to, like, get you help you go.

It's like, okay, great, like very standard, basic stuff. Every company does that. My thing is like the conversation starts with the intention around like what you want to do in five or ten years and then what pieces I need to bring to you so that it's even worth it for you to give me a piece of your revenue. Like everybody that I talk to in my current role and my job already has a business. They already have a media brand. They already have a personality or a platform for me to just say give me a piece of that. Yeah. Nobody wants to do that.

They would come to someone like me because I can add enterprise value to the thing that they ultimately want to build on the line. by also providing them growth. And so my perspective is like, I need to deliver on that and bring you something that is that before I even think about the other stuff. Because if not, like, a year will go by in your contract and the show will grow and you'll be looking at another place that'll do something else but for a greater amount of money. And to me, that's like, I don't want to play that game with people. I don't know if that makes sense.

Excuse me. I said my example was the example. I don't know. I said the podcast is a tentacle. But it starts of like, listen, I'm like, I'm super up front with people. And I'm like, I'm going to take a piece of your business. And they're like, well, that sucks, right? That's your first reaction.

It's like, why would I do that? And I go, but I'm going to take your business from being worth X and turn it into X plus Y, Z, whatever. And so then you look at it like, oh, that's like a much more interesting thing for everybody. So you're willing to do something like that with an individual like myself or someone else because there's like a real value prop as opposed to like let me leach on to what you're already doing. Right? And is that structure as like equity or is like a rev share?

It depends. Like it could be, it's different for everybody. Like some people want to go into IP. Some people want to go into products. Some people want to build a business. Some people want to start creating other things. Like the point is, is like, how do you take pieces together that are out there floating around, put them together in a creative way so that everybody together now has a huge win and also a huge thing to strive for, right? But I think what Lauren was like referencing to me in terms of the way my brain works in agreement.

is I just start from the perspective of like what are the pieces that need to be added in here and then a lot of times people say like oh that's not possible or you got to carve this or you got to change that and I'm like no no no there's a way to make this work together and kind of like supersede and get past a lot of those kind of like blocks

quick break to talk about fatty 15 I love being early to the party sometimes and we have been very early to the fatty 15 party but now it's time for you to join as well if you haven't Here's the thing. Fatty 15 is a single ingredient supplement that is made of just C-15. It is completely natural. I've been taking it for months and months now with stellar results. If you're not familiar with C-15, C-15 is the first essential fatty acid to be discovered in 90 years and get this. Studies have confirmed that it's three times better, broader, and safer than omega-3s.

The origin story is that Fadi-15 co-founder, Dr. Stephanie Van Watson, who's been on this show twice now. I highly suggest you check out those episodes, discovered C-15 as the first essential fatty acid to be found. in over 90 years while working with the U.S. Navy to continually improve the health and welfare of aging dolphins. Yes, the Navy works with dolphins. I was surprised too. Again, check out those episodes. We tell the whole story there. But let's keep this moving. If you want to get sciencey about it, studies show that C-15 works by strengthening our cells, improving our mitochondrial function, and protecting us against damaging free radicals. The result, better long-term metabolic, liver, and heart health. It ends up that many of us are deficient in C-15, which results in

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skinny. One of the most asked questions I get when I do a Q&A on Instagram story is what prenatal I use and what postnatal I'm using. And most of you guys know it if you listen to the show. So I use ritual. I've used ritual for all three of my pregnancies. They are amazing. Prenatal vitamins aren't even clinically tested. And I am not into this because this is one of the most crucial phases of human development. So what ritual does is it closes the gaps and it sets a new standard, which is awesome. So the one that I took when I was pregnant with Bond was the ritual essential prenatal multivitamin. And you can expect all the things in it. It has methylated folate, which is so important if you listen to the Gary Brecker episode. It has biotin and vitamin D.

And moms taking ritual had overall lower cortisol levels during pregnancy than a leading prenatal. So they really designed this for moms in mind. I notice they're really easy to swallow too. It's not getting stuck in your throat. It doesn't give you like weird burps. And everything is designed to be well absorbed. You can go on their site and see where everything's from too. If you're pregnant or your postpartum, check them out.

Don't settle for less than evidence-based support. Get 25% off your first month at ritual.com slash skinny. start ritual or add essential prenatal to your subscription today that's ritual.com slash skinny for 25% off so i was introduced to the real real because i started selling my clothes on the platform and then once i started selling my clothes i went on and became a full-on shopper the real real has it going on it's attainable luxury that upgrades your personal style so they have everything from brands like Gucci, Fendi, Prada. I have gotten some amazing pieces on there, like vintage or maize. I have found a wallet from Celine on there. I've even found like a beautiful Chanel bag that I could not find

on any other site. I like how everything is authenticated so you know it's real. And resale's also amazing for the planet. I like to use the real real when there's a piece that I can't find anywhere that's sold out everywhere. I usually find it on their site. I also am someone who sells on the Real Reel. So if you want to sell your clothes, you should also check it out as well. It's great for both. If you're looking for a dress for like a fancy occasion or maybe you're looking for a poolside, like a really great slide, they really have it all. I shop and sell the Real Real, which is great because I can use my earnings for something special that I want that I've been coveting.

I've even found something for Zaza on there. The Real Real is the world's largest and most trusted resource for authenticated luxury resources. With thousands of new arrivals daily, no one does resale like The Real Real Real. And now get $25 off your first purchase when you go to therealreelreel.com slash skinny. That's the realreel.com slash skinny to get $25 off. Start shopping now at the realreel.com slash skinny. Make sure skinny is all lowercase. How is my skin?

You know what? This sunscreen, it's caffeinated, it's mineral, and it does not pile under makeup. I applied it today with a damp beauty blender before I got my glam done, and it lays so nicely under like a foundation or a concealer. But here's the thing that I like the most about it. So when I'm off work and when I don't have to do podcasts or Instagrams or content, or I just can just be comfortable, I can wear this caffeinated sunscreen and I still get a really nice tint and a protect. and it looks like my skin is all one even tone, which is nice, without all the makeup. It's not like a foundation. It's like the caffeine tightens your skin. It gives you a nice

even tone and it just gives you a little bit of color. So what I like about this sunscreen is the versatility. So you can wear it when you're off and you're running around and you're running errands and wear it with nothing over it. Or you can wear it like I'm wearing today right now with foundation and concealer over it. So it works both ways. I will wear this when I'm going to the gym in the morning and just wear it throughout the day with nothing else, or I will wear it with a full look. I created the sunscreen because I couldn't find a mineral-based sunscreen with caffeine in it. Caffeine tightens the skin, it shrinks the pores, and I just like how it lays on the skin, and I mixed it with a mineral sunscreen, and then we made it SPF 40. So it's a real treat. I think that you guys will absolutely love it.

It just comes out in a pump, fits in your handbag, and it can go through the airport. You can shop this at shop skinnyconfidential.com, and it's the caffeinated SPF. Also, if you're like me and you go through sunscreen quickly, you can subscribe. And the sunscreen will get delivered straight to your door, so you don't have to worry about it. That's shop skinnyconfidential.com. To round this out, that's what Chris Jenner does. she's so she's so maybe she's not creating the lip kit but she's creating but the red lines are because she sees a bigger puzzle than other people see it's a puzzle that's a good word and that's a good way

I look it almost as like I used to play video games when I was a kid and you have to like put these things together like these are the it's it's seeing the puzzle pieces and how like maybe seeing a path that other people don't look at I don't know if it's just a it's a more of it's a different kind of creativity what else did you learn from Chris any other noteworthy things we're all going to go listen to the episode, but what else did you learn? I think the other thing that ended up, we didn't even realize, we didn't know that this was going to go super viral, but it has gone super viral, is there was this point in the podcast where she said one of the biggest pieces of advice she has for people is to keep a clean car. And she said having a clean car is just so important

and you're able to think better, like you're able to, like when you're in an environment that's positive and you're spending so much time in it, it ultimately makes you function more effectively. And she was basically saying she wishes that she could see people's cars while if it's someone she's interviewing because she judges people really heavily based on whether or not their car is organized. Because she was like, I can tell so much about a person depending on how well they maintain their car. And then all these people were basically duetting the sound being like, oh my God, I'm going to clean my car now because Christ Jenner is judging me. And so I think that was honestly super interesting but people like really really resonated with it so if you doesn't know how to

drive i don't know how to drive i was like i don't even just send that send that clip to lauren i do have a pristine car my car is pristine sometimes though i have a plate with old eggs okay because i eat a lot in the car because i'm very busy at this moment so sometimes there's the fact that you could look these two young women in the face and say you have a clean car i'm going to send you a picture of my car This is psychopathic behavior Wait, what do you think her car looks like? It looks like an old plate of eggs from two days ago that she forgot in the back seat with makeup and stuff everywhere.

Right now there's a mango plate. Like there's sometimes there's like things like that but the car is clean. Whoa. I think that Chris Jenner is referring to like there's stuff everywhere. There is stuff everywhere in your car. I'm going to send you guys a picture of the car.

I'm not worried about it at all. My car in college was a mess. a mess. I think Chris Jenner would like to get in my car. And by the way, Sophia has no idea how to drive. Yeah, I don't even drive. I was like such good advice. I don't have a car. If Chris Jenner got in your old plate egg car, first of all, I'm going to be like Sophia. I'm not really like a big driver. I don't want to drive. I want to be driven. I want to putts around. I want to be leisurely. I don't really want to drive. So that's number one. So basically it's your car that's dirty because you're driving me around in it. Oh wow. She really turned that. I love that. I love that.

Spend. Now, that is great. That was the art of the deal right there. She's good. She's really good. Your car is disgusting. He's like, your car is so messy and you're like, it's your car, actually. We have a lot of questions from the audience. They're rapid fire, but you don't have to go like super rapid. Like, they're just quick little questions. Guilty pleasure. You guys are very driven. You're very ambitious, I can tell. There's got to be a guilty pleasure. is it a martini it's a martini for me to be honest is it a chocolate mushroom what's the what's the guilty picture probably a martini like a manhattan for me would be it okay honestly i love temptation island i love salacious stupid dumb tv she loves like reddit like gossip threads is definitely yours

i think it's temptation island i've watched every single season i know oh my god it's like finally got on Netflix. I was like, everyone is so behind. Like, this is where it is at. Like, I love Temptation Island. Do you guys rot or do you marinate? Wait, what's the difference? Well, I marinate. So I, like, instead of rotting in bed and, like, laying there, I like to habit stack it with like a. It's the same thing. No, it's not. A sheet mask, a bed tray, a plowman's lunch. It is the same thing. Oh, yes, I do that. Like, I'll, I'll put, like, Temptation Island in the background and then I'll like answer my emails or something she marinate yeah no I marinate this is very different I just got this bed or I just got this table Michael doesn't know about it because I'm about

to give birth so there's this table that you can get I'll send you guys the link it's white it's really cute and it like rolls to your bed do you know what I'm talking about and on it I have my whole setup my coaster with my tea with my oh my God I want this it's really great it's like it's like 150 And it just goes over your bed and then you can roll it away when you're ready to go to sleep. But I love a bed tray, like a good bed tray where you can put newspapers on the side. You don't read. Okay. Come on. Books. I actually really like that idea a lot. My night's in is a disaster. Wait, what's your guys is guilty pleasure? Well, right now or when I'm not pregnant.

Is my guilty pleasure. My guilty pleasure is a margarita, skinny, half room assault. I don't feel guilty about any freezing cold Chips, salsa, guacamole a marination in bed What's my guilty pleasure? Video games

I play video games I don't know that that's so guilty I need something to zone out Oh I like housewives too Okay We got your guilty pleasures One thing in your closet you'll never delete My mom when she was pregnant with me

Gained literally 80 pounds And she used to have She makes me feel so much better These old coats that were like custom made from when she was working at Microsoft, like early, early on. And she ended up giving them to me because she can't wear them anymore. Best thing ever. It's like this suede coat. I wear it all the time. That is such a good one. That's a good one. That's a really good one. Okay, so one thing in my closet I would never delete. Okay, honestly, my mom came to help me with like cleaning and organizing my apartment. And I have

all these old clothes from Stanford, like, you know, frat party outfits and stuff. And I was like, honestly, I mean, what if I go out sometime? And she was like, you will literally never wear these tank tops ever again. And I was like, but it's a, it reminds me of a good time, so. Also, I feel like you guys need to keep the Stanford merch. Oh, definitely. Don't throw away the Stanford

merch. It's a good memory. Yeah, it's really cute. Favorite piece of advice that you've gotten from anyone. You guys have been around some really incredible people. You're both incredible. What's the piece of advice? The universe winks at you. So I believely told us that. And I think that's the biggest thing. Like, like,

the universe, like, sometimes things will, like, happen for a reason, whether you're religious or not, but, like, the universe will kind of, like, give you signs of, like, okay, you're on the right track or you're not on the right track. So, like, you know, when I'm, I'm doing something, having, like, a lucky number that I look out for or something like that. And I kind of notice, like, if I'm feeling really good about something or I'm really enjoying the work I'm doing, like, that's the universe, like, winking at me and being like, oh, like, this is your passion. I love that because my mantra is everything's happening for you. Like, whenever Michael comes to me, I tell him that.

And that's really, I feel like that's the same vibration of the universe is winking. It's the same kind of vibe. What's your Sophia? I mean, it was really interesting because both Whitney and Sarah said the same thing, which was essentially you need to trust yourself. And both of them basically had moments in their careers where they tried to hire more experienced people, people who were the industry experts and they tried to listen to them. and ultimately they realize at a certain point you're the founder you need to trust your gut and you're the one who needs to keep your foot on the gas pedal at all times and i think that was honestly really really good advice because it's so easy to get in cycles of self-doubt or

thinking about did i make the right decision or not but ultimately it was basically like what sarah said of if you really are in a state of paralysis ask the universe for a sign and then when you get that sign. I mean, she's shared all these stories with us of all these times where she didn't know what she wanted. And then she got really clear and she worked on her mindset and she set an intention. Like she knew what she wanted. And then like she asked the universe for it and then felt like it was received. And so I think it was just really validating to hear that for both of them, especially because they're so similar to us. Like young women who started these companies who have now become super successful, like they're who we want to be for them both to say that the biggest

thing that stuck out to them was that they needed to believe in themselves honestly made me feel a lot more confident in actually trusting our own decisions. You guys are on a great path. I see big things. What's the weirdest DM you've ever received? Lil Uzi asked me to go go-karting with him. So we went go-karting and it was a great time.

Who is Little Uzi? He's a rapper. You don't know him? I know, guys. I listen to Bossa Nova. Stan Gets. Do you know Stan Gets? No, you guys don't. You guys really are like, who the fuck is? Are you familiar with Iron Maiden?

No, I'm just going to. literally is he's a rapper yeah he's so big you don't know go go carding with him oh we did we went and was he fun it was so fun yeah did he like try to date you no no it was genuinely a go-carting invitation is the craziest thing about it was not a slide-in i don't know about that a go-carting invitation i swear to god i'm serious he was dating someone okay it was a go-car with a group of friends hilarious we lost badly but it was really hilarious i'd have never seen a guy asked a girl on a go-karting date platonically. He did.

He's a giant diamond in his forehead also. I got to go Google him. You got to go Google Stan Gets, though, because it's really great music to work, too. I think you'd like it. You can listen to some Stan Gets, Boston over in the morning, and then maybe end your day with some little Uzi. You know who little Uzi is?

I do not. But I will, after this, I will get out of this, and I will Google him. Perfect. And I will be blasting some little oozy in the office. Are you guys in the retirement home right now with us? You know what? I just proved my old white guy.

Yeah, you did. It's chill. What's the weirdest DM you've ever received, Sophia? It was like the chief brand officer or an executive. I'm not going to say the name of the dating company, but like one of the biggest dating companies in the world. Cole DM'd me and asked, are you currently in a relationship? If not, I think I have someone who could be your soulmate, like something. so weird and so crazy. And I'm like in a relationship right now. I like me and my boyfriend

are dating. You didn't tell you this or what? I didn't tell you this. Well, because I received this DM and it's a couple months after like me and my boyfriend have been dating. And I'm just like, this is so weird. No. That's not how we're going to find our soulmate either. No, I know. So I obviously like I don't respond because I'm like I'm very, like I love my boyfriend. Things are going awesome. But I was like how many people are receiving this DM? Because this is just so bizarre. It was just very copying, pasting it, or maybe it was geared towards you. Did you put it on scene? No, I just like left it. It's still there in my request. Do you ever put it on scene?

No, I actually turned my red receipts off. Putting it on scene sometimes, this is a little hot tip for all the girls listening. If I were you guys, I would be using that scene button like no tomorrow. Really? Why? Because it's amazing. It's like, seen it, moved on. Next. Oh, I like that. I love that. If you want to get a guy, don't, don't like, act like, you haven't read it like you know how you can see like put it on scene i've done that on text yeah see or you turn your red receipts on i would be if i were dating right now did she ever leave you on red

yes it drives me fucking nuts he'll be in a fight once again and i'll be like i know you see i see you do no it still to this day i don't pick up his calls all the time you guys don't take advice from us we are very toxic no i got in trouble by a lot of people on the podcast because of how toxic I can be. Mel Robbins came on and there's like a clip that went viral. It's basically like us being toxic and that whole community, you know. But then again, we're still married. We're still married.

You got to keep it spicy. I think it's fun. If you want to get a guy, guys, put it on red. Turn on your red receipts right now. I'm going to put you on red. See how you like it. Oh my God. That doesn't hurt my feelings because I know that I, no, that's not going to work.

We'll see. Oh, you're going to turn the tables on her. All right. Biggest ick in business before you go. Biggest ick on when you present the deck. When they've said they've never used chat GBT before. I'm like, what the hell are you doing with your time then? That's crazy.

You're writing every single email by hand. I've had people say, no, I love writing emails. Huh? No, you did to help you. I am writing every email by hand. What? Wait, what? Explain it to me.

I'm the ick. You like go on chat chit and you have it help you write emails and then you edit it to make it sound like you or you can train chat GBT to write like you. Like they have a whole like GPT like store. and they're all free where you can do a professional email writers and you click on one of those and then you paste in like you're like oh respond to this email and say da-da-da-da it spits out a response for you and then you adapt it to your tone and then you respond to the person wait i feel like that sounds like more work than the way i email because i only email a sentence

that's also true Lauren has had the same auto-responder saying she's out of the office taking time for herself for three years guess what i am not going to waste time I'm in my inbox. Yep. You know what she does? She, everyone emails her. She doesn't respond. Three months go by.

Leave it on red. She responds and goes, team, what are we doing about this? It was taken care of a month ago. We did it. That's the point though. I did it. See how that happens?

I did it. It takes care of itself because I didn't respond. See how that works? What I will say is this incessant need to respond to every email. I go in text and emails and I just delete a lot of the time. And then if it filters back up, it's important. But if it doesn't come back. my question for you is when you're are you doing this with every email that you get only the ones

that are like important no only like the non important ones got it's like it's a really important email I'm handwriting it like I'm sitting down doing it but if it's like a template like you know I need to send a certain email then I'll use chat you to help me out okay I need to get I need to get in on that you need to show me how you use chat sheep from my medical ailments what does that mean what do you mean well like you know we have time for this well I'll be like I'll throw my back on instead of going to the doctor but tell me what to do and give me a recovery protocol go to the doctor

too, do both and then I'll ask the doctor what they think of the protocol and then you'll talk to me and it's an inner monologue narration great poor chap GPT

ask it putting your guys' text the most fun thing to do with chat is to put in your text and then ask it to analyze the relationship or you want to know something cool are we meant to be like

I see I love this I have got all my girlfriends the brokers out there aren't going to like this but I was buying this property the other day for something and I didn't use a broker

and I never done that and I asked ChatGPT what to do if you're not using a broker and how to negotiate and how to do it. He said he'd never use a broker again. And it's fucked up for brokers. But honestly, that was like, oh, that's all you got to do? Well, I mean, if Chad GPT is that good, I don't need a husband. Let's see if Chad GPT can do a couple things I can do. I think you guys should upload your texts and ask it to psychoanalyze your relationship.

I think if it said you guys aren't toxic, then you could go back to those TikToks and be like, Chad Chb-GPT says we aren't toxic. we make a blanket statement that honestly people should probably not like take full relationship advice and when everyone says should we work together I say absolutely not terrible. You guys know there's toxic things that happen within the friendship when you're working together. I'm sure. Maybe there's not. I've had fun talking to you guys today. We've had so much to hear your biggest dick in business. I mean honestly I think my biggest ick is a lot more simple but I hate when I have really clearly communicated something to someone for them to do like a very specific thing. And then

they either will do it in a way that doesn't make any sense or they will not do it and do other things that are not a priority. She means when people don't listen to her. That's what she means. When anyone doesn't listen to her. No, but you're very, you seem very literal and articulate with what you need and when it's not done right. I see what the echo is there. Like, I mean, I feel like I really love clearly communicating as much as I can of like, okay, here's exactly, it's like it needs to be done at 12 p.m. It should look like this. And then if it's like 1230 and then I haven't received anything and then I receive something where it clearly goes against bullet point three and five, then I think it's also about, not about like following, not about like following

instructions, but more, I think a really incredible trait for people to develop is asking questions. Like if you're confused about something, like you should ask questions. Like I think that the worst thing that someone can do is like pretend like they have everything figured out. And then to do something when you could have just like clarified and asked a question and then prevented like a miscommunication. And I also think that like deadlines are important. This literally feels like a personal attack to someone who's listening. You better watch out. This feels very targeted. This feels so targeted. I can't wait to hear off air what it is. Watch. It's me. It's not you.

And wait till you have kids and you give them really specific things. That was a very specific example you gave. I like it. I like it. I'm thinking of a very specific recent. I can see that. And 12 p.m. was also the very specific example. And you ignored bullet points three and five.

Put it on your Instagram stories. Crop that clip. Where can you download what you guys are doing? Where can you find your podcast? All the things. Tell us. Go to fia.com. You're going to download us as an app.

and then you're going to add Fia to your safari and click allow for us to be able to follow you around on every shopping website to give you the best deal. And also, I'm going to get my vest for you guys. We're going to do it right after this. We're going to get you that damn best. Be sure to give the critical feedback on the vest. That's everyone's job.

The vest is cute. And where can we find you on your new podcast? At the burnouts on every social media channel. Congratulations, guys. Thank you for having us on. We also learned a lot from you guys today. Thank you guys so much for having us on.