The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Rachel Hollis On Being Cancelled & The Path To Redemption After Public Mistakes

Episode Date: March 14, 2022

#443: Today we are joined by Rachel Hollis. Rachel is an American author, motivational speaker, and blogger. She is the author of three self-help books, including Girl, Wash Your Face and Girl, Stop Apologizing. Rachel returns to the show after almost 4 years to discuss her meteoric rise to fame and her trials with very public mistakes and cancellation.  To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by Better Help We want you to start living a happier life today. Get connected online to licensed therapists at accessible prices to make sure yu are taking care of your mental health. As a listener, you’ll get 10% off your first month by visiting our sponsor at www.BetterHelp.com/skinny This episode is brought to you by KiwiCo KiwiCo is defining the future of play by making it engaging, enriching and seriously fun! They create super cool hands-on projects designed to create a lifelong love for learning among kids. Discover subscription lines for kids of all ages, ranging from infants and preschoolers all the way to teens.Grownups are welcome to join in on the fun, too! Get 50% off your first month plus FREE shipping on ANY crate line with code SKINNY at www.kiwico.com Produced by Dear Media 

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to The Skinny Confidential, him and her.

She's like, there's a big difference between your intention and your impact. Your intention was like, oh, I want to speak to other people like me and maybe inspire whatever. But your impact is what you have to take responsibility for. And I like the amount of therapy, coaching, processing, books, what has happened because of that experience? I am a different human because of the experience. Welcome back, everybody.

Welcome back. I was talking a little quieter just now. That clip was from our guest of the show today, Rachel Hollis. And we got a juicy one for you today, guys. We go all over the place. We get deep with Rachel. And what's interesting is we've known Rachel for a little while now, but we haven't talked to her since 2018.

When I was just looking up the episode back episode 129. So we're all the way up in the 400s now. So this is like 300 episodes ago that we first talked to Rachel. And keep in mind when we first talked to her, I think this was right around the time Girl, Wash Your Face was kind of taking off. I don't know if it was in every airport all over the place. Her brand was definitely not what it's become,

which is this massive platform. She was married at the time, pre-divorce. So these are two completely different conversations. And I think it's kind of interesting to compare them just because of where she was then to where she is now. I found Rachel to be incredibly vulnerable in this episode. I think a lot of things that she said will surprise the audience. I think Michael and I are here as a media outlet to showcase all different kinds of

opinions. And this episode is one that's worth listening to. I also am a huge fan in my life of hearing where people are coming from. It's something that I am a very curious person. I'm interested. Instead of just shutting down conversation, I like to open my ears and listen for a minute. Well, I imagine there's some new listeners just because Rachel's a big name

and she's obviously draws listeners and guests and platform. And for those new listeners, I just want to give you a disclaimer right ahead of time. This is not a safe space. This podcast has not been built to be a safe space. It was never meant to come out and make you only feel good. Safe spaces are places where you never feel challenged, where you don't have to stretch yourself, where you feel comfortable, right? This is not that podcast and it never has been.

So I just want to put that out there for anybody that's new to the show and hasn't been here for a while. For those that have been, obviously they get that. And the reason I- The Disney channel may be a better outlet. Well, the reason I share that is because Lauren and I have conversations

with all walks of life, all different backgrounds, some loved, some hated. Don't listen around your kids. You know, and we have different kinds of conversations all the time. You know, we can have a conversation with an angel and at the same time have one with Satan himself. It doesn't really matter to us. If I had a dime for every time

someone told me that I needed to delete an episode or take someone down or not interview them because of XYZ, I would be a billionaire, Michael Bostic. Yeah, listen, if we haven't taken that advice for the last four, five, six years, however long we do this in the last 500 episodes, we're not going to take it now. So for those of you that are willing to kind of hear a different perspective, challenge yourself, not be so upset about not being in a safe space, this one's for

you. And for those that need to be coddled and stay in a safe space, maybe turn it off. With that, Rachel Hollis, welcome back to the Skinny Confidential Him and Her Show. This is the Skinny Confidential Him and Her Show. This is the Skinny Confidential Him and Her. I'll let you kick it off. All right, Rachel. It's been a minute. What the fuck happened? What is going on? It's been, I was just going back 2018 is the last time you've been here. Lots happened for you, to you, with you, about you. Yeah. It's honestly, I mean, it feels like a lifetime from 2018 to where we are today. And I'm trying to remember if the book, had the book come out? Is that why I came on the show last time? Was the girl wash your face come out? It was coming out, right? I think that's like

you were promoting it, right? We were talking about it. How crazy. A lot's gone on. Yeah. So that book utterly changed my life, changed my business, all of it, totally unexpectedly. I had been sort of hustling in obscurity for eight or nine years. And that book came out, it was my sixth book. So I have five books before that, that nobody really cared about. And then this book just hit some sort of nerve. Was everywhere. Was everywhere. Sold millions and millions and millions of copies. Still sells a shit ton of copies today. And went sort of from like hustling to,

oh my God, now I'm overwhelmed and there's so much opportunity and how do you decide? And so it was pretty wild. That was 2018. 2019 was sort of the life I had dreamed of. The most success I could have imagined. The most success I could have imagined, the most money I could imagine, speaking opportunities everywhere,

which was always what I had dreamed of. Podcast explodes, a whole thing. And it was the most miserable year of my entire life because the amount of work required to stay at that pace and to keep producing and all of it was so overwhelming and I couldn't be the mom I wanted to be. I was on the road constantly. And I remember talking to someone who had experienced something similar and him saying, you're going to get burnout and your instinct

is going to be to take your foot off the gas and whatever you do, don't take your foot off the gas. And I think that is the most fucked up advice I've ever been given because I listened and I ended that year completely depleted. And 2020 then I think was sort of the fall apart of two years of extreme, just working so hard and not, I'm sure you guys have experienced this at some point of like the success happens and you don't even really know how to deal with it or what it means. And you sort of need your spirit to catch up to where your brand is. I think we've experienced it a little bit, but much slower, right? Like it happens. I mean, when I say your book was everywhere, everybody knows the book. I mean, every fucking airport, every bookstore, every news channel, like every, like everywhere. And I think that type of success, it's very, it's very rarely experienced. That's me. Like most people,

especially what's been in my career launch where you work long, long, you were, and like, you have these things, like we always say there's never been an epiphany, right? Like it's like all of a sudden you look at it like, oh, that's a little more further, a little better, a little better. You can point to an epiphany. But it's so, yours was out of nowhere mass scale. Right. And what's crazy too is that the book was not a success right out of the gate. So it came out and like a handful of people cared, the diehard fans who had been there forever, they cared. But it took three months for it to hit the New York Times list. So it really was this very organic thing. And kind of the fan base took ownership of it, which is beautiful and amazing and did change my life and my family's life. But also when the fan base takes ownership

of something, they also sort of take ownership of you. Really? Let me tell you about my skinny confidential Facebook group that I had to shut down. Right. Oh, I remember you talking about this. Different scale, but I can empathize with what you're saying. It's pretty crazy. So in the success of the book, the business that I've been doing for a while, which was, you know, I had a lifestyle blog and I did conferences and speaking engagements, all of that exploded with it. And everything since then, it was sort of like rising to the highest point of the mountain. And where I find myself today at the start of 2022 is wanting to get back and have done a pretty good job of getting back to what I actually want to be doing,

not what everybody else would like me to do. Because I'm sure you guys have had this too, where something's successful and then all of a sudden, every brand, every agent, every manager, every press out, like everybody wants, oh, what if you did? And you're like, oh, I've been working so hard. And here's all this opportunity. And you just start saying yes to everything and you sort of get lost in that. So what is it that you really want to do? Right. Right. Yeah. Make content, create stuff. And the further, the more successful I got as a writer, the further away I got from being able to write. There's no time. I don't have the space or the freedom to think. I'm just going from one spot to another, whether it's travel or meetings. I want to make cool shit with cool people. That's my mantra. And I want to make stuff that I really love and I'm passionate about, even if other people don't get it. And that means that I can't keep only telling women ideas for how to make their life better. Because it was like, you become successful in one way

and then that's all anybody wants from you. Tell us something else. I'm like, y'all, I give you three books. So walk us through this. So just so like, so I think to contextualize, because like I said, I mean, there's so many things that have happened since 2018. When you first wrote the book, what did your personal life look like and your team look like? Like, I mean, was it a small operation? Was it a big operation? And at what point do you start like building an operation? Yeah. So it was six people in LA. And I mean, that was like a social media person and a, you know, brand partner and like all of that stuff. And then when we moved to Austin,

we moved the business to Austin and we were a team of 14. So we grew a little bit. And then- And this was primarily speaking and books and just- Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

And I'll never, this is like a before and after moment for me. So the book had come out, it was starting to get really popular, but I just wasn't super conscious of what it was doing. And then we put a conference on sale. I remember standing in this little office here in Austin with our team of 14,

and we were putting tickets on sale for our conference. And it was going to be in Dallas. And it was, oh, no, no, I lied. It was in Minneapolis and it was 3,800 seats. And every year I had done a conference and got a little bit bigger and bigger. 3,800 seats. And I was-

What was the first year you started doing conferences? In 2017. Okay. Here in Austin, 150 people in the Hyatt ballroom. Okay. So it started small. Started very small. And by the way, it was like,

we did like buy one, get one tickets. Like 150 people didn't even sell out. It like we were doing everything we could so the reason i'm asking is I think like people look at you now and they think Like these massive conference massive events and I just want to paint a picture of like the scale and the speed. Oh my gosh Yeah, so 2017 it was like Do you want to invite your mom like literally we just wanted to fill the seats because we had already paid for the hotel room. So we're standing in this little office here in town. The book had come out and we had 3,800 people. It was supposed to be in Minneapolis.

And I was like, am I about to go bankrupt? Like, because when you plan an event, you got to put the money up and like hope to God you can sell the tickets. And I remember we're all standing around and we put the tickets on sale. And the accountant was the one watching the website. We're all just like celebrating like, yay, silly, whatever. And she was like, oh, we sold, you know, 30 tickets. And we were like,

holy shit, we sold 30 tickets. And then she was like, oh, we sold 300 tickets. And it was just, it was so fast. And that conference sold out in 30 minutes. And I remember the 14 of us standing around and no one said anything. It wasn't even celebratory because we just didn't know what had happened. So I went from all these years where I was like barely selling tickets to suddenly we sold 4,000 in 30 minutes. And not only that, but then the fan base who had saved for a year couldn't get tickets to the, so immediately people were like, have another one. So we planned an event in Dallas for a month later, put those tickets on sale and that sold out in an hour. And that was 8,000 people. And it was, that was like a before and after. I was like, what just happened? I'm still not entirely sure what just happened. But yeah, that was a big deal.

That's a lot of people. A lot of people. The pressure and the energy that that takes. Yes. I don't even know how you had the capacity to have four children, a husband. Like that is a lot. Right. I think, I don't know.

To me, there isn't, the energy changes 8,000 people versus speaking to 100. Yeah. But I would speak to 100 people the same way I speak to 8,000 people, or I've had the opportunity to speak to 20,000 people. My style doesn't change based on the size of the room. But don't they want to meet you afterwards and engage? Not all of them. Not all of them.

Yeah. So it definitely is a lot more extreme because when I first did the conference here in Austin, that was one day versus a Rise conference now is a three-day thing. And I might be on stage for four or five hours. So it's very intense. But also the audience is giving you so much energy. And you're sort of, it's like a symbiotic relationship and it's fun. So yeah, it was a a symbiotic relationship and it's fun. So yeah,

it was, it was a trip. I don't know. I'm my, I tend to jump into the deep end and figure that I'll learn how to swim once I get there. You know, I like my shoes shoes classic, white, and comfortable. I am not one of those people that likes uncomfortable shoes. My shoes have to be very comfortable. And when I'm pregnant, like forget it. You should see like some of the shoes I wear. They are like the most comfortable. I don't care what they look like. But thank God because I found a shoe that's actually cute and comfortable.

They're made to be worn. And that is Carrie Uma. Okay, these shoes online have 15,000 five-star reviews. There's thousands of waitlisters on the shoes, and the most popular is the Aka. They kind of remind me of like a nostalgic boat shoe. They're canvas. They're so, so comfortable. I like these shoes because a lot of tennis shoes you'll get in the mail and they're so uncomfortable and they're not actually made to be worn. These are. So if you like white shoes like me and you like to be comfortable, you have to check out their amazing shoes. They have all different colors, gray, sand, classic black, and dusty rose. A lot of neutral

options too. Michael got a matching pair with me. He has the white ones too. They're super cool. They ship all their sneakers free and fast in the United States and offer worldwide shipping with a 60-day free return. And for a limited time, the Skinny Confidential, him and her listeners get an exclusive 15% off your pair of Keri Uma sneakers. You are going to go to cariuma.com slash skinny. You get 15% off. That is cariuma.com slash skinny for 15% off only for a limited time. When did you start seeing your social media experience hate? As your book grew more and more popular, did you start to see, that's going to come with success.

You look at the Kardashians, I was just talking about this the other day, and like, they've heard every single thing that there is to hear about the way they look, their body, et cetera, et cetera. They got to have tough skin. When was there, was there a point that you can remember thinking, wow, this is tons of positive, but it's also shifted to negative? Well, not to the extent that exists today for everybody on social because social now is like fucking wild. But I came up with social. So I had a lifestyle

blog for the longest time. So I was, you know, back when Facebook was something we all were excited about instead of something we're, but back on Facebook and having groups and having a page and posting every day, like 2010, 2011, like really doing the work there. So it ended up being awesome back then because you could interact just like when you had your Facebook group, right? You could interact with your fans and hear how their life was and it would inspire content that you would create. It was amazing. But even back then, I think respectfully to women, because I love women, but groups of women can be catty. And so that back in the day was when I first started to hear comments. And back then it was about motherhood always. That was always what women attacked me for. And now, God, it seems so insane in 2022, how much I could be hurt by some stranger on the internet saying that I was a bad mom

because I was a working mom. It seems so antiquated and ridiculous. I think that's because it shifted. Before it was a platform, like you said, where you engage. I remember when Lauren used to go in and respond and answer to everyone. I think that's how these were envisioned. That's why they were created, was to connect people and to engage in all these things. But over the years, I think it's become more about spectating.

And people aren't really engaging as much anymore. It's like just commenting on people's lives. We're not at SeaWorld. We're not Shamu. Right. But now it's not even that, just commenting.

It's like a hobby. It's a hobby to go and try and find something wrong with what someone said. And sometimes it is wrong, but others you're like, wow, how did you even get? And the amount of the thought process now, I was talking to Jay Shetty about this on his podcast that back in

the day, social media was how we figured out what content was sticky. So you kind of try a concept like, hey guys, I've been thinking a lot about this. And if you got a big response, lots of people are like, oh, me too. I'm struggling with that. It sort of told you what to write about, or it told you what to make a YouTube video about. Now there's no testing. It's if you want to post anything, you have to think and think and think, or you do what a lot of celebrities do where you're like, I'll just put a heart emoji. Like I'll say nothing. I'll post a picture and say nothing, which we're losing something in that. We're losing conversation. We're losing the ability to have a real discourse with people

and maybe disagree, but that's okay because that's what you do with people in real life. But it has shifted and changed so much. Most of the creators that I know, and you obviously work with a lot of them here, but then also some bigger names, like you said, people like yourself, people like Lauren, like that,

used to engage into all these things. It's more now like, hey, I post and then I don't look at what people say. Oh, not at all. Yeah. And I think that, to your point, I think that is unfortunate, but it's become such a place that honestly engaging with a lot of... I don't want to shit on everybody because there is a... I think actually the high majority of people are there for the right reasons. They're positive, they're good, they're living a great life. But the people that are there for the wrong reasons happen to be the loudest people. Absolutely. Right. And so it's like at some point you're not doing yourself or anyone else a service by

engaging with the peanut gallery and going back and forth and fighting online with people hiding anonymously behind a keyboard, right? It's not productive for anybody. Well, I think... So I have been relatively absent from social. I really only post if it's like in my feed, if it's something that I feel really strongly about, or I really want to make sure that they know about, or I'm just experiencing something where I'm like, this is so great.

I went skiing for the first time this weekend with my 15 year old son for his birthday. And I posted about it, but that's the first time I've posted in six weeks. Because I just, for me personally, I want to live a really good life. I don't want to just have a life that looks good on Instagram. So we're going to jump around here. When you posted and everyone knows the post and you got all of that flack and all of that pushback, what was your intention? And I'm sure that factors into a lot of the things you post now.

Right. What was the intention? And how did you feel, obviously, about the response? Right. So I was doing a live stream. Let's say it was like a Tuesday. I was doing a live stream. And on the live stream, I had this woman who was saying that she was suffering from severe

depression. And she was asking me, she had so much guilt and shame because her house was messy. And I was like, okay, a couple of things that you could do. Number one, you could just be okay with a messy house. Like what matters most right now is your health. So you can focus on that, or if you can afford it, get a housekeeper. And during that live stream, I started to get so much flack for saying that like, oh, you could get someone to come and clean your house once a month. And I got so much crap for saying that in the live stream. And they, so then they started attacking me, which I'm very used to, but then they started being mean to her. And so that got me sort of, cause I'm like, fuck you dude. Like this woman just told you that she has severe depression. She just said that she feels shame about it.

Don't, don't dog pile. So I finished that live stream. I even talking about right now is like making my heart pound. And I finished that live stream. I just kept thinking about that because when they were saying, they were like, you're so unrelatable, I think. And I was like, I just sat with that for days or 24 hours or something. And I was like, wait, why would I want to be relatable? Like everything I've done in my life, trying to write a book, trying to have a podcast,

all of this stuff is me trying to step outside of a narrative. So I just, I thought, and I'm not the only one who feels like that. So I wanted to make a video about that. And I had TikTok. And so I was like, oh, this is what we're doing on TikTok right now is making these videos. This is the definition of privilege is that it never ever occurred to me how it would be taken. Do you also think that you were so distracted with everything that's going on? You've got

kids, what you were going through with your husband. Yeah. The book, the six, like it's like so much that like maybe you like weren't even along you mentioned privilege but you weren't even thinking the ramifications no and my best friend said something so great she's like there's a big difference between your intention and your impact your intention was like oh I want to speak to other people like me and maybe inspire whatever but your impact is what you have to take responsibility for. And I like the amount of therapy, coaching, processing books, let like, what has happened because of that experience. I am a different human because of the experience. It would be strange if you weren't. Right. But I think what's really interesting is that the internet wanted, I don't know how to say

this. Like they wanted me to, it's like a math teacher saying, show your work. So they wanted, show us what you're doing. Tell us about, which to me felt like where you're, it's performative. You know, those, when people mess up or a celebrity says something or whatever, and then they get on the internet and they're like, look at me. I was waiting for you to do a song like We Are The World. Right, they're like, look at me doing the work

or here's the stack of books that I'm reading. And I thought for me to actually do something to really change and understand how I made a mistake and not do it again, I have to actually do the work. And that's not something I'm going to show on social media. So let me ask you a really blunt and honest question. Do you feel like the punishment fit the crime? Meaning like, do you, everyone's aware of the comment and what you did

and what you said and all that, but do you feel the way you got dragged was appropriate. I feel like cancel culture today is, if cancel culture was actually about caring whether or not the person was learning from their mistakes, it would be one thing, but it's not. It's about who can make the comment that gets the most likes or who can say the thing that's the biggest zinger. So that sort of circus that happened

was crazy and felt crazy to be inside of for me. But I'm not just saying this. If it hadn't been as painful as it was, I wouldn't have done the work that I did because I never in a million years would never think that I, after being on social media since it started, could have gotten on the internet and said something that made my fan base feel like suddenly this wasn't a safe space. I did that and I have to own it. And yes, so much stress and so many things behind the scenes and all of it that I think kept me from seeing what it was. I get it. But what I never understood ever that saying the names of women.

So I had said that just for anybody who doesn't know, I made this video saying like, I don't want to be relatable. I have someone who cleans my house and I work really hard and this this is what, and I, in the comments or in the, when I wrote about it, I listed women historically who are unrelatable. Like all of these women who had inspired me, I'm a huge history nerd. So I was just naming women who were my heroes. And I never, ever in my life, it never occurred to me that people would say, you're comparing yourself to Frida Kahlo. You're comparing yourself to Harriet Tubman. And again, that's my privilege that it never honor to women that I admire. It never occurred

to me that people would say, you're saying that you worked as hard as fill in the blank historical figure. This is a different scale, but I think like as people with public platforms, there is a level of responsibility to think about, to at least think about how you say things, which is the same thing. Lauren and I go through it all the time. But at the same time, I would push back and we're all part of this on the public and say, there's also a responsibility to just be a good human, right? Like when I look, we had that, we had Sophia Franklin on the show. She was part of that call her daddy controversy when that whole show split up. I don't know if you're familiar with that or not. And the reason I bring it up is like, it wasn't like a few people attacked her. It was like the

internet and the world was attacking her. 100%. Same thing in your situation. And I think about these situations because people could do something wrong, but it's not like you murdered somebody, right? Right. It's not like you had a child, right? You said something wrong, and it's not giving you a pass, but I think the public has to be thoughtful about the impact they have on men and women online. These are certain people can hear things and luckily you're a strong person. It doesn't happen. People can take those messages

the wrong way and go and really harm themselves or get on the spot and ruin their life and ruin their children's life and their family. And I think about that stuff all the time because you may think you're doing something noble by going and attacking a public person, but if it gets so visceral to the point where it's the world attacking the person, like you have to think about the ramifications. I don't, like if, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Did you hear about the, what is it? Caleb from, do you guys hear about this TikTok thing? Do you know about this Caleb from, oh God, it's like he works at like a homeware store. Oh, this is okay. I'm going to, I'm going to be a 39 year old mother of four and not know this TikTok reference, but people can look it up. So my girlfriends were just telling me yesterday that

there was this huge thing that happened on TikTok where someone made a video and said, I met this guy on Hinge. He like wined me, dined me, did like a love bomb when we first met and then ghosted me. And it sucked. I really thought he liked me because he had made me this playlist on Spotify. And she was like, and here's his profile. And it was like Caleb and he worked at some, oh God, like CB2, some home good store. And when she posted it, whatever it was about the video,

it sort of went viral on TikTok, like how they do. And other women started saying, oh my God, I dated this guy, Caleb. He's, oh my God, I dated this guy, Caleb. He's like 23 or something. I dated this guy, Caleb. Just, I really want to real quick. This is not tea. This is loose tea. As my friend would say, I'm telling you what I know, but someone could be listening going, you got the whole story wrong. So just FYI. But other women started saying, oh my God, I had the same experience with this guy and he ghosted me and he gave me that playlist too.

He told me he made me a playlist. The internet exploded, okay? So all of these people on the internet started calling his job and telling, this guy is a bad guy, you need to fire him. The internet goes crazy. Bumble took out a billboard that was like, if you don't wanna end up in a relationship

with someone like Caleb, be the one who makes the first move. Like everything exploded. He's a 23 year old dude or whatever who ghosted some women. And yeah, that's douchebag, but not enough to get him fired. Not enough to like-

Ruin his life. Yes. Yeah. And this is my point. And what I'm saying is like, you know, as a public, we're starting to play judge and jury, but you're not thinking like, you know, we all get so protective of our children. If you heard your child, your children were getting bullied on the playground, you want it, you lose it. You get so upset. You're so angry with the school.

You're so angry with the kids on the playground. Think about how small that scale is, right? You start piling onto people online. Like at some, this is going to get to a very dark place, right? What? And again, I'm not excusing people's behavior. No, I take full responsibility. Like a hundred percent, I take full responsibility because the bottom line

is if people felt like I had created a space that wasn't welcoming to them, then I'm going against my core values as a person and as a creator. So I did something wrong and I had to learn from it. But the issue with cancel culture is that I don't feel like most people care

whether or not the person who made the mistake is actually learning or growing or evolving. They just want to see what they can do to sort of how far can we take this? And that feels twisted. If there's anything that this show has proved over the years of doing it, talking to all these high performers and different people, it's that access is such an important part in every aspect of life these days. And the thing I love the most is that access is right at the fingertips to so many people now because of the internet and because of how well we're all connected. That's why I love this sponsor, BetterHelp. If you've been listening to this show for a while, you know that we love this partner. One thing that we talk about all the time on the show is mental health, protecting your mental

health, making sure you're in the most optimal state. And that's why BetterHelp is such a great partner. I just think it's so efficient to be able to do online therapy. They offer video, phone, and even live chat sessions. So if you want to be on video, you can. I'm someone who likes to just talk on the phone and not do video, so you can do that. You don't have to see anyone on camera, which I like. It's way more affordable too than in-person therapy, which I think is really amazing, especially with everything that everyone has gone through lately. I think there's a lot of microtrauma happening. So to be able to get on the phone without video and just vent to someone in an affordable way is absolutely amazing.

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Give it a try and see why over 2 million people have used BetterHelp online therapy. This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp and the Skinny Confidential. Him and her listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com slash skinny. That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P.com slash skinny. What was it like the first week after this? And I want you to walk me through from the second that you posted this video to like when you started to realize maybe this is not what I should have posted to a week later,

because that's what I always think about when I see a fellow content creator go through something like this. I always think like, do you turn your phone off? Are you in your room in the dark? Like that, that to me is the first thing my brain goes to because it's not like you can call a friend who can relate to this at all. You kind of just have to just deal with it yourself. Right. So I posted it and didn't, I don't look at stuff after I post.

I just sort of think I'll put it out into the world and it does what it does. And then a couple of days later, cause it didn't, it wasn't right away that people freaked out. I was at Six Flags with my kids and my best friend called me and my best friend is a black woman. And my best friend called me. And my best friend is a black woman.

And she called me and she was like, ooh, bitch, your white girl's showing. And I was like, what? I literally had no idea what she was talking about. You had no idea? No idea. Nothing. You didn't even like look, you didn't look at DMs, nothing.

I didn't know. I had no idea. And she was like, I just, I want to check on you. I want to, you know, I want to check on you because people are really upset. And I was like, I just, I want to check on you. I want to, you know, I want to check on you because it's there. People are really upset. And I was like, what are you talking about? Because I had no idea. I honestly didn't even know that I was putting something, you know, how sometimes you put something out, you're like, this is going to piss people off. I didn't honest to God had no, which just shows my ignorance. I just had no idea. So she was the one who called me.

And in calling me, she was upset. And I'll tell you what, the internet being mad at you is nothing. So I have three best friends. Two of them are black women. Nothing is worse. Nothing than hurting them. Because now their friends are calling them being like,

you're friends with this bitch? Like this one who's, and that was horrible. So I'm at the rest of the time that we're at this amusement park, I'm trying to like be mom and be hyped up. And I don't really know the full extent of what's happening. So I got the kids back home. It was the weekend.

And I had at the time a PR team. I was working with the PR team because I was doing press. They had helped me after the launch of my last book. And I was like, hey, I don't really know, like, should I take this down? I don't know. I don't really understand, but should I take this down?

And they were like, just don't do anything. Don't say anything. Don't comment. Don't do anything. We'll talk about it on Monday. And at this point, it's like, it's been picked up. It's an issue. And so I ended up writing something myself just because I felt like I have to say something about this And then that the internet I remember what I wrote in that to be totally honest with you

And then that was like it's not enough. You didn't say i'm sorry in the right way. You didn't say it to the full extent and I'm, not don't feel sorry for me for one second, but I will tell you that being inside of that, nobody prepares you. Nobody trains you. Nobody knows how to respond to that. I didn't know how to, I was like, oh, I have apologized and I've said, and it was like, you didn't apologize enough or you didn't apologize to all of us for all the reasons we were offended. And then that felt so overwhelming because I was like, fuck, I don't know what to do. And people are so upset. And I just in the middle of like a shit storm. Are you calling your friends? Are you connecting with your family? Are you just siloed? Are you alone? I'm siloed. If I am going through something hard, I just go into a cave. And I was so embarrassed and I was so ashamed. And I didn't know,

I didn't even fully understand at the time what I had done wrong. And I didn't know how to make it right. And like Monday morning, we had a big, like the full PR team. Cause it was like, well, now you've really fucked up. Cause you apologize, but you didn't apologize. Right. And I was like, it was one of the craziest experiences of my life. And on that call, I'm sobbing. Like, I'm just so, I'm so embarrassed that my team is having to deal with this. I'm so embarrassed that this PR team is having to do it. Like, And you're running a sizable company at this stage. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we still had, oh gosh, like 30, maybe 40 people at that point. How do you even show up for all those people and your kids?

I, that honestly was so grueling was that it was like, oh, you need to have, you know, the Monday morning meeting or you need to have the whatever. And it's like, we need to see you strong and you need to apologize to the staff. And it's just, I'm not saying that it didn't need to happen, but nothing in my life has ever been harder than that week. I will say too, with issues that have arised over COVID too, when something comes up and people want my immediate response, I am the type of person that I need to go inward and meditate and think and write.

And I cannot just react right away. It's just not my personality. I have to wrap my head around what's going on and think of the proper way to respond eloquently. I just don't want to be so reactive. Yes. Taking this issue aside, I think it's one of the biggest problems in this world right now is people are just constantly reactive. They're not thinking. People don't stop and think about

any of their actions. It's like verbal. And I'm talking not even about just your issue. I'm talking about any issue. People just quick, quick, quick. You see it on Twitter. Somebody says something, they don't even actually read what somebody said or listen, or they don't even read a book. It's just headline, headline, respond, respond. Right. And I think in that instance, all of this had occurred because I didn't think before I acted. So I was just trying to hold it all. And during that time, that whole week, I literally, I laid on my couch and I didn't eat. I did drink a lot and I just cried. I cried and prayed and cried. Are you on your phone? No. So you'd put your phone, you'd said, I don't want to look at this. I don't want to do it.

I have never seen a single comment to that video. Not one. Did you just delete the video? Eventually. I didn't do it right away because it was like, I don't ever want to like make a mistake publicly and then try and like cover it up. But eventually, like two weeks later, I pulled it down because I was like, I don't want this to continue to go on offending people.

So I wrote another apology and then I took the video down when I posted that one. But I just, yeah, I was not on my phone. And my two best girlfriends who lived here at the time kept calling, kept reaching out like, bitch, where are you? We know you're in a cave. We know like we're coming.

And finally ended up, they have my location on my phone. And they just, they told me later, they tracked me every day because they thought I was just going to like go on a road trip and like leave town. And eventually just showed up at my house with food. Looking back on this, were you nervous looking back in retrospect

about your mental state at that time? Like, do you look back and think I was in a really fragile position or was this something where you're like, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. I'm going to get through this. No, I could not see light. And I'm the most optimistic person that you've ever met in your life. And I think that's why I wanted to have

you on the podcast because you are like, I think of you as motivation and you're constantly like, I feel like your platform is trying to inspire other women for you to feel like that to me is very a human side of you. It was, yeah, I have lost my older brother to suicide. I found him. I've now lost a child. I lost a baby actually the day that I was supposed to come and do this podcast the first time. I had gone for an ultrasound and there was no heartbeat. So that's why I didn't do this with you all the first time. Yeah. But I have gone through the most horrible situations in my life, nothing was darker than that week where I just kept thinking, I can't believe I said, I can't believe I did this. Like, how did you do this? How did you fuck up so badly? How like, I was trained my whole life to be a good girl and I never offend

anybody and never make anybody mad. And I just, I couldn't fathom how I had made a mistake like this. And the idea that so many people were mad at me and that I had hurt so many people and it just was crazy. And I, yeah, it was, it was the darkest time of my entire life. And I couldn't, there was no like in two weeks, this will all be okay. This was months. This was months and months of press about it and so much fallout, so much freaking fallout from that.

And all of it just felt like this, it was crumbling down around me. So like this horrible experience, right? This was April of 2021. just felt like this, it was crumbling down around me. So like this horrible experience, right? This was April of 2021. But because I really do believe that life is happening for you. I just, there was also, I know this is going to sound crazy, but there was also freedom on the other side of that. Like, okay, your worst nightmare has happened. Literally. You have offended people.

You've made this mistake. All of these things have happened. The freaking New York Times has written a giant article about what a piece of shit you are. Like all of it's happened. Now what? Because for a decade, you've been telling people that it's okay to fail publicly.

In fact, in the video, I say, like, I failed so many times. You'll see me fail again. I didn't know that I was actually manifesting that in real time. But I just, I would still be trying to please everybody. I would still be trying to live into the brand that they had created for me. I would still, like they would still be in control, the public of my, who I am. And now whatever you think of me, I think I seem, I hope a lot more human because I fucked up. That's what I, you know, when I was younger and this is not even near the scale and it wasn't public, I had a lot of success, right? I started making more money than I thought I could make. It was fast.

It was quick. And during, and I shared this story during that time, I became a total prick, total asshole. I had like a midlife crisis, but in my twenties. I can vouch for that. And the reason being is like, you start, you know, like you set out in life and you envision like, hopefully what success at least to you, is going to look

like. And then it starts happening and it goes further than what you thought it would be. And you start to feel invincible. You're like, this is going to continue forever. I'm the best person ever. I'm smarter than anyone. I have financial means. And you start to kind of like, you create this, you become this version of yourself that is an overinflated ego. It pushed away a lot of the people that were closest to me, started attracting the wrong type of yourself that like is an overinflated ego. Like we pushed away a lot of the people that were closest to me, started attracting the wrong type of people that shouldn't have been in my life and that were there for the wrong reasons.

And like, I ended up almost completely crashing and burning financially during that situation and a bunch of other things. And it was like a real introspective moment to be like, oh shit, like I'm not all these things and this is not the end all be all. But the reason I bring this up is during that time, nobody could have told me anything.

And I wonder like if somebody would have come to me to me like, yo man, like take it easy. I'd be like, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Like, look at me, look how great my life is. I wonder if any of that's also playing into this as you're posting, as you're going, because you're speaking to 20,000 people financially going off the charts, books are everywhere. Like, does that start to be like, it's like an overinflated sense of self because it's, that's the version that everyone thinks of you. It's reinforcing. So I, I, I definitely ego, I don't mean ego in terms of like egomaniac. I mean, ego in terms of like whatever we perceive ourselves to be. I never felt like, oh, I'm so cool. Or like, I'm such a badass or any of it. Because truthfully, that whole experience, 18 and 19, was very overwhelming for me. So overwhelming. I love getting to work with women. I love doing conferences. It's super badass that that

many people want to buy a ticket. Like that makes me feel cool. I love that my kids see that. Like they're like, wow, look at mom. Like she does this thing. But mostly I feel overwhelmed by the success or the money or any of it. So that wasn't playing into my head as much. I know exactly why that happened. Cause believe me, I have analyzed this from every angle. I was angry. And whenever you take action from a place of anger

instead of a place of love. Angry about? I was angry about what, about the people who were making comments on the live stream because it was I got this idea for this video from that experience I was angry about that and truthfully I was angry about I there's a lot of therapy coming through guys I had held it all together I had a company of 60 employees at the beginning of 2020, and we did conferences. And that's not something that can happen inside of a pandemic. So I had held it together. I had held, I worked so hard to make sure people were employed, that our vendors got paid, that we

didn't like relinquish on anything that we owed. I had gone through this divorce and was like destroyed in the world for getting a divorce. I was working to take care of my kids, to pay off my ex-husband, to do all of this stuff. And I felt like I am keeping all of this afloat and there's so much pressure and it's only me. And in that moment, I was like, this is going to make me emotional. So stupid. But I was like, the one thing that I have is this sweet woman who has been with me forever, by the way, who comes to my house twice a week and helps me to clean. I have the kids. I'm by myself. And this is like this one thing that I have. Like I've made sure that all of these employees have jobs and health insurance and 401ks. And we eventually would end up having to do layoffs because you just can't

hold 60 employees when you can't do a conference. But I was so angry, not at the comments, but they were like, Wayne Dyer has this quote that I love. He says, when you squeeze an orange, you never get lemon juice. When something's under pressure, when something's squeezed, what is inside of it will come out. And I was so, I realize now, so angry about having to hold all of this and had held all of this for so many years that it was like someone poked. It just, it was the exact right thing of like poking how I had help to be able to do all of these things and take care of four kids by myself. And that was just the straw that broke the camel's back. But when we're in pain or when we have those emotions, your ego is going to turn it into like,

or my ego turned it into like, well, I'm going to clap back at you. So I was angry when I made the video. And if you put something out from a place of anger, you're going to get anger back. So I own it all and I've done all the fucking therapy, but that's the whole picture of what was happening. And I don't say that to make an excuse, but I would argue that there is no human being who's, unless you've lived through it for years, like you're a celebrity and you've done it for 30 years or something, who knows how to process all of those big feelings. I feel like we should play a little game, Michael, where we tell the audience how we use Beekeepers Naturals. Beekeepers naturals, I'm obsessed. You

see it all over my Instagram story. How I use it is I do it in the morning. Don't copy me, Michael. I do the bee shot. It's like this little shot of royal jelly. It's absolutely delicious. I swish it around in my mouth, savor the taste, and then I take it and I feel like it gives me energy. This is very much helpful right now because I am trying to back away from coffee pregnant. Beekeepers Naturals, Bee Shots are helping me out so much. I cannot even tell you. I have taken them throughout my whole pregnancy. Obviously, talk with your doctor, but they've been working for me. And another way I use Beekeepers, sorry. Don't, I thought you get to choose one.

I know, I have another way, is the cough syrup. The cough syrup is absolutely amazing if you are sick. I'm never going to shut up about this cough syrup. I send it to all my friends. The elderberry cough syrup, like you cannot go wrong. I take the shot when I need to focus and feel like the guy from Limitless. Oh, because you're going to cough. No, but I don't do it in the morning.

I do it when I need to go into very specific meetings or presentations or when I need to recall things very easily. And sometimes I do it before the podcast. Okay, whatever you guys do, try Beekeeper's Naturals Bee Shots. Like I'm telling you, it's like liquid Adderall without the comedown. That's natural. Today, Beekeepers Naturals is offering you an exclusive offer. Go to beekeepersnaturals.com slash skinny or inner code skinny. You get 25% off your order. That's B-E-E-K-E-E-P-E-R-S-N-A-T-U-R-A-L-S.com slash skinny or inner code skinny. Beekeepers Naturals products

are also available at Target, Whole Foods, Sprouts, Air Ones, and GNC. Start feeling better today, every day. And it took Lauren seven times to do that spelling. Just want to put that in there. Enjoy. Well, we're not made for that. I mean, if you look at our evolution, we're not made for that I mean if you look at our evolution we're not made for that it's a lot of opinions chiming in and then there's groupthink of people who don't even know you chiming in to the fan base so it's it's a lot happening right what have you done and where do you even start to do the work like for me me, if that, if that happened to me, I don't know, like, I don't, I guess I would pick up a book, listen to a podcast. I'd call a friend. What did you do? And what are those tools? And you said you're a completely different person now.

Like what, what have you been doing? So the irony is that my best friend, her job is literally teaching white people how to not be assholes. So she does racial reconciliation and awareness. She goes into huge corporations and teaches them. Can you shout her out? Or is it private?

Yes. No, no, Beans. And most people know Beans, but Beans Barron, you can find her on Instagram. She's an author. She's amazing. So the irony of that is pretty extreme that this is literally my best friend Beans, but Beans Barron, you can find her on Instagram. She's an author. She's amazing. So

the irony of that is pretty extreme that this is literally my best friend and we've been doing, like we've had her come into my company twice. Like she's trained, like it's, we can all make mistakes. So she was the first person that I asked, okay, I'm a fucking idiot. Okay, what do I need to read or read again? So I got a list of books from her that I worked my way through. And that was the last that I asked other people, because one of the things I was very conscious of, this is a thing that especially white women do a lot is ask black women how they can be doing better. So they're like, tell me what I should read. Tell me. It's like, fuck you Google Google it. Because you're making them- You're putting the burden on them.

You're putting the burden on them, like your education. And I only ask because I am in relationship with this person and she is so close to me. So I started reading books and- Is there one that stood out to you or is there a couple? Again, I never actually saw anyone's comment, but I heard later, I ended up reading her book and I heard later that she was one of

the people who actually her comments were like hey everyone's a dumbass like until they learn and so she wasn't like fuck this person she was like hey here's how you did this wrong I was thinking too you're in a very difficult position during

all of this because at the time, at least I think for many women, you're the poster child for a woman who's supposed to have it all together, right? Like you are speaking to women and educating women and inspiring women to be these great versions of themselves, right? And so it's like, if you're not all of those things, I think people are going to be much harsher on you than they would be on somebody who hasn't chosen a career in that lane. Right. Well, and I also think that there's a preconceived notion. If you don't know my brand, if you're not familiar with the work, maybe it would be easy to think, oh, it's sort of like

a lifestyle influence or whatever. And really, if you've read my books, listened to podcasts, heard me speak, I'm the queen of like, I suck or whatever. And really, if you've read my books, listened to podcasts, heard me speak, I'm the queen of like, I suck. Here's all the ways I'm messing up. This is, I'm trying to fix it. Here's what I'm doing. But if you were just looking from the outside in, you maybe would have a different perception.

So I do want to say this book because it was really great. I'm Still Here by Austin Channing Brown, Black Dignity in a World Made for Whiteness. So I had that book on my nightstand for months. Someone had sent it to me and I hadn't read it yet. And so it was before I jumped into Beans' books that she told me about, I picked this one up and I started reading it.

And more than anything, that book gave me a different perception than I had had about what it felt for for like what she's experienced in her life, in the workplace, in school, growing up. That as much as I've heard my friends talk about, it just was a different thing and something clicked for me. Like, yeah, if you have been experiencing this your whole life and some dumbass white chick gets on Instagram and says these things. Yeah, that's offensive. But I couldn't, I just like, it helped me to process what had happened. Before this happens, you get a divorce. Right.

Which is like even more pressure because I feel like so many people went to you guys as a couple. Right. How do you even deal with that? That's a whole, that's like- You guys were as a couple. Right. How do you even deal with that? That's a whole... You guys were both front-facing. Right. So, I mean, I actually, because I run a podcast with Michael, that is a lot. Right. So, I mean, it's just all these things stack, right? This COVID and the divorce and then the business changing, just all of it stacking on top of each other. Like almost happening is just as fast, but in the reverse

way is the success, right? Yeah. So that was, that was a wild experience. Going through a divorce is fucking brutal. I don't care. It's so awful and hard. But what was so unbelievable to me was I could not fathom how many women attacked me for like, how dare you? You said till death do us part. You made vows. Nobody was upset with him, but everybody was upset with me. Don't get any ideas, motherfucker. Oh, really? But do you think that's also in part because you guys had created a business where you're giving relationship advice?

Yeah, but why aren't they mad at him? Right. No, no, listen. And if you listen to our relationship advice, if you listen to our podcast, we talked about problems all the time. Here's what we are struggling with. Here's this issue.

And we had very publicly said for five years, we had been working on something that ultimately would be the thing that destroyed us. And I couldn't believe, because I'm managing the pain of my children, all of this happening inside of COVID. So like, how do I move out? I had never, and I met him when I was 18.

I'd never been an adult by myself. I didn't, I just, it was so much. And then it was also like, oh, all these people are super pissed because you're not an example of a good wife. And that's what they wanted you to be. There is an interesting thing. And I feel like I can say this. Well, I'm going to say it anyway. I think a lot of men are always surprised at how vicious women can be to each other. Men don't really do that to each other. And again, this may be like kind of a sexist statement, but it's just from my experience, that's been the experience. Men get in fights and they're like, whatever. You might say something, might have a little fight, whatever, and you move on. Women really try to tear down a lot of other women.

And I think that at the same time, there's a lot of women that support many women. But sometimes the attacks are visceral and they're violent. And it's interesting to observe from an outside because on one hand, you're a brand that's uplifting women and speaking to all these women. But on the other hand, you're now on the receiving end of thousands and thousands of women trying to tear you down. I think a lot of men get confused because they're like, what's the message here? Right. Well, I think what was wild was it felt like dogpiling. It felt like people kicking you when you were at your lowest, when I was at one of my lowest points in my life. And the crazy thing was nobody knew the truth and

still people don't know the truth and they don't know the truth because I want to protect my children. And so- But meaning like, from my experience, meaning like you would think that because so many women have experienced, men and women have experienced divorce, that it would be a time when women would want to support you. Right. But it's almost the opposite. I also don't think that anyone's owed the truth. The truth is your truth.

Right. And if Michael and I were to get divorced and I'm an oversharer, I don't know. I mean, I didn't want to tell people about my pregnancy for a while. You have to have a spread of fucking privacy. Right. And the other thing was I didn't want to tell people about my pregnancy for a while. You have to have a spread of fucking privacy. Right, right. And the other thing was I didn't want to talk about it. I didn't want to make it this public thing.

And it was this really warped situation. I had written a book and the book was coming out. And the book was about living through hard things. And it was like, oh, you have to say that you got divorced. You have to say it because you're living through a hard thing. This book's coming out. And so I wrote the opening of that book. I say like, I'm in the middle of a divorce as I'm doing the edits for this book. And it was one of the hardest things. And that's the reference to divorce in the book. And then every press out, every single person said, you wrote a book about your divorce.

And not only did you write a book about your divorce, but you tried to monetize your divorce. And- So you had already been- Done. The book had already been done. And just, I will say this, you do write, for me always, I write the beginning and the end last. So like the intro

is the last thing I wrote of the book. So it's not like you preemptively knew this was happening, wrote a book to capitalize on it. I was writing about COVID. I was writing about that we were all living through this really hard thing and thought I could be helpful and sort of offer advice for that. So it just was this dog pile of grossness and I wasn't talking and he was. So he talked a lot and I was silent. And I think that when someone's silent, people assume, oh, you're the one who did something wrong and no comment. But, and still I don't, this is the most that I say about it is just that I won't talk about what happened. And I believe that karma will take care of everyone

who needs to be taken care of. So that's that. I just got a little scared when you said that. It's true. You don't want to divorce me publicly because you never know what I'll do. Right. No, but I think like, again, this is, you know,

listen, I, and I can see how this is, people are going to listen to this and they'll say, okay, well, if you never know what I'll do. Right. No, but I think like, again, this is, you know, listen, and I can see how this is, people are going to listen to this and they're going to say, okay, well, if you have a platform, you have a responsibility. But I do, I would put that responsibility back on anyone who's participating on any platforms to also say you have a responsibility to be a decent human, right?

Right. And someone's going through a divorce or they're going through something tough in life. I don't want to look back on my life and have any kind of record of me trying to further harm someone, right? I think a lot of, like you say, karma, like there's a lot of people

that are going to have to look back and reconcile, like, yeah, that person was shitty, but did I also need to stoop to that level or worse, right? Right. And like, I just, I think people get mad because we talk about cancel culture. It's not cancel culture that I care so much about. It's about people being shitty people.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. And like you can fuck up publicly or make mistakes, but I feel like that's the time when society should wrap their arms around people and say, okay, this is not okay. This is a fuck up. Let us help you get back up to a place where we can all move forward.

I also think Stassi Schroeder on Vanderpump Rules. Do you watch that show? She went through something similar that you went through and they kicked her off the show. And I always say that I would have liked for her to stay on the show, for her to show the process of what it looks like after going through something like that

to maybe inspire or, I don't know, maybe help someone else out there who's going through it. Like to just ax her off the show we didn't get to see. Yeah, there's no evolution. Do you know what I'm saying? A hundred percent. And I think what I hope for the fans who have been with me for a very long time,

I think that if you talk to any of them, they would say that the person I am or the content that I create today feels very different than it did a year ago or two years ago or 10 years ago, because what you are watching is my evolution as a human. So you're watching something change and grow and me evolve and we'll continue to do that. But you can't see that and people can't learn if they're not allowed to be human and allowed to do the process and do the work and grow in front of you.

Because it's sort of like, oh, let's get rid of this person, kick them off the world. You're never actually going to know what it looks like. And I feel like it's really important for me to talk about it and just, you know, like, hey, we're chatting about this thing that happened because I want to see specifically for other people who hold privilege to see what it looks like to mess up, to say you're sorry, and to take

the fear out of admitting that you did something wrong and talking about how you learned. Because honestly, I don't think a lot of people even get, this is a privilege. To be able to sit with you guys and talk about this and have people hear the story, that's a privilege in itself. Because there's a lot of people who will never get the chance to show the work. Recently, Zaza has been getting invited to all these birthday parties. She's literally more popular than you, Michael Bostic. She's getting invited left and right. She is busy.

And obviously, we have to buy a gift. And what I do to do this and to keep it efficient and to give a good gift that people really want is I go to KiwiCo. So they deliver monthly science and art projects that celebrate a child's natural curiosity and sparks a love for lifelong learning. But they have this little section on the site where you can click, okay? It says R lines, and you can pick zero to 24 months. You can do two to four. You can do five to eight, all the ages. So you can find the age of whose birthday party you're going to and just click the age group

and find something that's super cute. Like I'll give you an example. Zaza the other day, she went to a two-year-old's birthday. So I went to the koala crate. It's so cute. It's ages two to four. And I just went on there and picked out what I thought would be best for this little girl.

We found this little kit called rainbows and it's super cute because you get to discover how rainbows are formed and you can create like a strained glass landscape and it's geared towards that age group. I feel like they really focused in on projects and experiences that are hands-on. So you're not just giving a gift that's going to get thrown away. They have like science and the chemistry of cooking and all this art. It's so cute. You guys have to check it out. Check it out for your kids or for birthday guests. Step into spring and celebrate the season of discovery with a KiwiCo subscription. You get 30% off your first month plus free shipping on any crate line with code skinny at kiwico.com.

That's 30% off your first month at K-I-W-I-C-O dot com promo code skinny. So what would you say to the Rachel who posted that video? What would the Rachel now say to her? What's that evolution look like? How have you changed? I know this sounds like BS, but I wouldn't take it back. I wouldn't take the experience back. Somebody just mentioned some kind of, was it a Harvard or Stanford study? That's interesting that she just said that. We just heard this.

Somebody said that people that go through hardships in life, the professor, I'm going to, what's the term you use? Naomi said it from Southern. But what's the term you use about that? Oh, loose tea. Yeah, yeah, this is loose tea. But basically the gist of it was, they said, go up there and write all the hardest thing

you've ever gone through in your life and put it on the whiteboard and say, okay, now that it's up there, say you can go up there and erase it. But if you erase it, you take away all of the lessons you've learned, all the experience from there, would you erase it? And they said, not one person in the class

actually went and erased that. It's like, these are the types of things that make us who we are and make us hopefully better. Right. I think too, it really severed whatever emotional connection I had with a social media brand, like with my brand on social media, because I had come up in that world. That's how I built my business. That's how I did all of these things. And so there was this, I know anybody who has a platform on social is going to understand

this idea that you feel beholden to the device. I got to post this. I got to talk about it. And when you have a company and there's employees and we really need you to post more because we have this launch coming up. And it was such a severing for me of that mattering. And honestly, you know how many people, and I mean friends who are celebrities who hate it, hate social media with a passion and have to show up every day because 50 million fans or 30 million fans or 1 million fans or 500,000 or 3,000. But their business is built on that and people are counting on them. So they keep showing up even though it's toxic. And one of the things that came out of that for me besides the learning was this platform isn't my life. This is not real life. My real life is what happens when I go home tonight

and make dinner for the kids. That's my real life. And my real life is really good. But you don't really see it on social anymore because I don't ever want to get it twisted again that like if it looks good on social, then it is good in real life. And that's not the reality.

When it comes to your work environment and your children now, how has that changed in the last year? I'm sure there's changes in both. Totally. I really am focused on the podcast and I'm focused on writing. That's what I do now. I'm not really in the space where I want to do a conference anytime soon. I feel like I've sort of carried that weight for a very long time and it's an incredible experience and it is an honor, but it's just so much. But I'm just focusing on creating things. And what it looks like right now is I work from home like most of us do. And I write and I record podcasts mostly by myself unless I'm

doing something like this. And it's pretty dreamy because respectfully, I still make a significant amount of money, but I do it from home and I do it in a few hours every week as opposed to 60 hours a week on the road. So life is really good, but it is, you know, I have four kids, so it's also chaos. I think my main goal in life, and I've realized this as I've gotten older, is to protect my peace. Yes. And it sounds like that's what you're doing. It's like money or success or social media or followers. Like what I've learned through this whole COVID experience is like, if I don't have my peace and my sanctuary, I can't show up.

Yes. Like I can't do it 100%. Yeah. So that's kind of what I'm hearing from you too. No, I'm just, I keep sort of refining. It's kind of like sifting out and what doesn't matter. And that was the beautiful part. I know it sounds silly, but that was the beautiful part about lockdown and COVID was suddenly all these things that had mattered so much were taken away from us. And you really

have to ask what is the most important. And like I'm surrounded, I have a lot of friends who are really successful entrepreneurs and I love them so much. And we had very aligned values for a really long time of like, how much can we make? And what was the revenue this year? And what'd we grow? And what brands are we working with? And I just, I know I sound like such a hippie, but I'm just, I'm not, I'm not in that. I really believe if I focus in on what I'm creating, then the success will follow because I'm focused on creating good shit that people will like,

as opposed to, oh, I'm going to make, you know, like, you know who my dream is? You know who I want to be? Jon Favreau. Do you know who Jon Favreau is? Of course. Fucking killing it. Like just director, actor, producer, writing, like behind the scenes, do you know who Jon Favreau is? of course fucking killing it director actor

producer writing like behind the scenes like Jon Favreau started as an actor he was in a movie called Swingers in like the early 2000s

classic so good and he wrote that and then starred in it and so he had a little bit of fame and so he was an actor in different things

and then ended up either writing or directing Iron Man fame and so he um was an actor in different things and then ended up either writing or directing iron man that and also he's just did the mandalorian oh yeah he's done since then he just keeps he's not going he doesn't have social or if he does he has he's not doing anything he doesn't have fame he does like if you saw him, you'd be like, holy shit, that's Jon Favreau. But he's just quietly making really cool shit, directing The Lion King, killing it. And that's the dream. Like I used to, when I was younger, I thought I wanted fame.

I thought I wanted to be recognized in the airport. And I just want to be able to make some stuff and do it with people who are cool and go home and make dinner for my kids. Rachel Hollis, thank you for coming on. What can we expect next from you? Another book? Something different. Okay. So you'll see when it comes out. And where can we listen to your podcast and what episode would you tell our audience to go to first? So you can listen to the podcast anywhere that you get them,

Rachel Hollis podcast. You can watch it on YouTube if you like a video. And one that lately has done really well and that people are really responding to is I did a two-part episode on how to stop caring what people think, which I think is a huge thing affecting women. So go check it out.

You guys were going on her podcast. So go over to her podcast on Apple and listen to us there. Thank go check it out. You guys were going on her podcast. So go over to her podcast on Apple and listen to us there. Thank you for coming on. Yeah. Thanks for having me. The ice roller has sold out. Okay. You guys keep buying the ice roller. Every second we get it in, you guys sell it out. The demand is crazy. We are doing pre-orders on the site, shop skinnyconfidential.com. Make sure you get your pre-order in because I'm honestly nervous that the second that they come back into stock, you're going to sell them out again. Also for 20% off, you can use code PINKGLOW. Don't tell

anyone though because we're only doing it for podcast listeners. PINKGLOW for 20% off on the site, site-wide, not on bundles. So it excludes bundles. And with that, we'll do a little Skinny Confidential giveaway. I barely ever do giveaways, but I really want to give away a hot shave razor. I'm obsessed with mine. I used it this morning. All you have to do is tell us on my latest Instagram what your dream Skinny Confidential product is. Super easy. Hope you love this episode with Rachel. Again, use code PINKGLOW for 20% off on ShopSkinnyConfidential.com.