The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Redirecting Your Life's Trajectory, Near Death Experiences, & The Keys To Happiness With Cal Callahan

Episode Date: December 16, 2021

#418: On today's episode we are joined by Cal Callahan. Cal is a retired trader who hosts The Great Unlearn podcast and runs Unlearn Ventures, an investment fund and incubator for forward-thinking projects. On today's show we discuss how to redirect your life's trajectory, what it's like to have a near death experience, and how we can find a path to true happiness.  To connect with Cal Callahan click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential  The Hot Mess Ice Roller is here to help you contour, tighten, and de-puff your facial skin and It's paired alongside the Ice Queen Facial Oil which is packed with anti-oxidants that penetrates quickly to help hydrate, firm, and reduce the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles, leaving skin soft and supple. To check them out visit www.shopskinnyconfidential.com now.  This episode is brought to you by RITUAL Forget everything you thought you knew about vitamins. Ritual is the brand that’s reinventing the experience with 9 essential nutrients women lack the most. If you’re ready to invest in your health, do what I did and go to www.ritual.com/skinny  Your future self will thank you for taking Ritual: Consider it your ‘Lifelong-Health-401k’. Why put anything but clean ingredients (backed by real science) in your body This episode is brought to you by Versed. Versed is the non-toxic, cruelty-free, and vegan skincare brand that’s hyper-focused on bringing you real results at prices your bank account appreciates. Their products are made with proven ingredients at skin-changing levels, without the fussy packaging and conventional markups. You only pay for what matters—the goop inside the bottle Get 10% off for first time users when you shop at versedskin.com with promo code SKINNY This episode is brought to you by Public Goods Public Goods is the one stop shop for sustainable, high quality everyday essentials made from clean ingredients at an affordable price. Everything from coffee to toilet paper & shampoo to pet food. Public Goods is your new everything store, thoughtfully designed for the conscious consumer. Receive $15 doff your first Public Goods order with NO MINIMUM purchase at www.publicgoods.com/skinny or use code SKINNY at checkout.  This episode is brought to you by Brooklinen Give the gift of comfort this holiday season and save while you do it! Go to www.brooklinen.com and use promo code SKINNY for $20 off with a minimum purchase of $100 Produced by Dear Media   

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to The Skinny Confidential, him and her. But I would say, again, have your own experience with this.

And what I was doing, I wouldn't change anything. I'm grateful for the financial abundance I have. It allows me, now that I have a different relationship with it and myself and working out and all the things, I get to integrate all these things back. For the people listening, from my experience, don't try to get it right. And if you do try to get it right, that's okay too. It's still part of the learning, but just like pay attention and know that everything is part of what's going to inform you going forward. Again, the path of here and the path of not here, it's all part of it. Welcome back to the Skinny Confidential Him and Her Show.

That clip was from our guest of the show today, Cal Callahan. This episode, I think, is going to kick off the new year the right way, ending this year really strong. Cal is a very interesting character. We happened to get introduced to him out here in Austin by our friend Khalil Rafati. I have to mention Khalil or he's going to have a whole

conniption fit and have a meltdown. I think we joke about that in this episode. But yes, definitely met Cal through Khalil, a fan favorite of this show. Khalil has been here three times. I think Cal is going to become one very quickly as well. And we had a great time with Cal. He's an interesting character. And like I said, we met Cal sitting outside of Sun Life Organic one day with Khalil and just really hit it off. And it was actually at the same time that we met our friend Boyd, who was recently on this show as well,

another episode that was received very well. So we are starting to develop this group of friends out here in Austin. It's really awesome that we've been able to come out here and meet all these interesting people. And speaking of interesting people, Cal Callahan, he is that. He is a very interesting guy.

He's got a very interesting background, started as a trader out in Chicago, had a ton of success and a ton of abundance early on, and has actually retired out here in Austin. Since then, now he has a podcast called The Great Unlearn, where he has all sorts of different personalities and people on the show to question assumptions, to have great conversations. I think a lot of you that listen to this show would really enjoy his show. And he's obviously dabbling here and there, investing in different businesses and still staying active. If I look like Cal when I'm 50 years old, I will consider it a win in life.

With that, enjoy this episode with Cal Callahan. It goes all over the place, goes into relationships, goes into business, goes into life. It's a well-versed conversation that I think is going to provide a lot of benefit to really kick off the new year and end this year strong. So enjoy, guys. This is The Skinny Confidential, him and her. So we basically just did like half a podcast. Yeah. So hopefully you still got some juice in the tank. I got plenty more. I figured. Cal, there's a lot of directions we can go here.

And I have to throw in a jab of Khalil tried to be here. He wanted to be your hype man. He thought you would need some hype. I don't think you're going to need it. I don't think so. I think y'all are going to do just fine with that. Sorry, Khalil. Sorry, Khalil.

Maybe next time. Yeah, his feelings are going to get hurt. with that. Sorry, Khalil. Sorry, Khalil. Maybe next time. Yeah, his feelings are going to get hurt. Khalil is a great connector of people. He always has been. I love Khalil. I'm so glad he connected us because now we get to do this. But as you think about your life, and you just told us you're almost 50 or are 50, you look incredible.

If I don't look like this at 50, I might as well just end it. I like that. I might as well just end it if you all look like that at 50. But as you think back on your life and your career, how do you introduce yourself at this point? Well, first, it was interesting. Before we dropped in, you asked, is John a cow? And so that's something where my real name is John Callahan, but for so long I've been called Cal. And I definitely feel more like a Cal, but there's like a part of me that over, I would say even over the past year has worked to build a relationship

with the version of me that went by John. And the best I can tell right now, when I was younger, I grew up in very kind of humble spot in Maine. I went away to boarding school, not because we had money, but because I was playing hockey and I wanted to do an extra year of high school to play hockey, to play in college. And my parents did what they could to make that happen. But I think when I transitioned into that space, I was Cal or had another nickname that was Booney, but really it was Cal. And there was this part of me that wanted to separate myself from that small town boy who didn't come from much. And being surrounded by, as you can imagine,

at these boarding schools with people that, families that are successful and wealth and that being important to me at that time. And really for a lot of my life, I really wanted to be successful in that way. And really for a lot of my life, I really wanted to be successful in that way. And I was able to achieve that. And it wasn't until someone reflected back to me that same question, your name says John here, but you go by Cal, what is it about that? And I said, there's just some tension around being called John. It doesn't sit right with me.

And as he held space for me to dig into that, I started to recognize these parts of me that I wasn't maybe accepting of. And those parts would be like, what's an example? It's like coming from a community that isn't as sophisticated and intelligent and worldly as the one we have here in Austin or when I was in Chicago. So I didn't want to identify as some, for lack of a better term, some hick from Maine. That was my own shit. And so part of the work that I've been doing largely over the last four years has been to build

a relationship with all parts of myself and to accept all those parts of myself. And it takes some work because there's some real kind of wounding in those different areas that if you're not willing to go to the depths and sit with it and be honest with yourself and be accepting of why it happened and the story that I built around each one of those things, if I can go in and identify those, then I can unlock that agreement that I made and I can dissolve that story.

And then I can start to take that part of myself, bring it into who I am today, and then come through as a more full version of who I am. And so that's, I would say, largely the work that I've been doing has to do with just building a relationship with myself. And with that, I get to show up for other people in my life, like my wife, my kids, and my friends

in a way that is really who I am and my essence. I think about this a lot now, thinking about, let's just say your background is a more humble background than what you've grown to. Obviously, you've had a lot of success both in your business, personally, family. But do you think there's a part of you that was driven by who you were? Meaning you may not have had the success that you've had in all areas if you didn't start with those humble beginnings. I think that's something I struggle with right now with my kids because they're starting at a different place than me.

And I'm so grateful, so grateful for where I grew up and how I grew up because I think it created resiliency. And I didn't necessarily want to grow up in, I wanted to do better than that. I think we all have that essence of we want to do better. It's hard on that scale for my kids to do better, you know, in the financial part. It just is.

And that sucks because I always had it, you know, that was kind of my North Star. I want to just do better than what we did. And not that I wasn't grateful for it, but I knew there was more out there. I witnessed it and I wanted to be a part of that. And so I was always driving towards those things. And because I had that mindset, I was able to achieve a lot of the things that I thought were really important. And they were in their own way, but they weren't the be all end all. And I didn't realize that until probably four years ago. It's like, oh, I did it all and it's not it. Now what? You seem like a very self-aware individual. I can just tell you have a very rare too to be self-aware.

So what are some things that you look back on from your childhood or your marriage that you can pinpoint, oh, that helped me become more self-aware? I've had some great mentors in my life. I'd say while I don't look at my dad as a mentor, my dad worked really hard and he parented in a much different way than I do. But I learned work ethic from my dad. But because my dad was so busy,

I looked to other men to fill that role. Just intuitively, I was drawn to other men that were showing up more open-hearted, whether it was a coach, my business partner that hired me out of college, that I spent 18 years with, was such an important person and has been an important person in my life,

to what it means to be self-aware, to show up when your wife is pregnant, this is how you show up. Now, I didn't do a great job of following his example, but I paid attention to it so that when I was ready to put my ego aside and get into being more part of the family and what that meant, I had the groundwork was already laid. I just had to do my own work to get there. So I think largely it's, I've always been drawn to people that,

like they have some level of mastery in what they're doing, right? In this case, my old business partner, Will, was an incredible mentor, whether it was incredible mentor. I was a trader. And if you know anything about traders, it's a shitty business. I don't know. What about it? You're on the trading floor. And this is in Chicago.

In Chicago. And there just aren't a lot of great people down there. There are a lot of unwritten rules that people don't play by. And so to be in integrity in that space when there's not a lot of it around, you kind of stand out. And my business partner, that's how he operated. So by his example, we all did the same. So that's all I knew in that space. When you start to see that there are other things that are more important than making that money. Now we're there to make money,

like make no mistake about it, but how we do it is as important or if not more important than the making of the money. And so I just, I was fortunate. Like I didn't choose necessarily to work there. It was the only job I got, thankfully, because it was a great fit for who I was fortunate. Like I didn't choose necessarily to work there. It was the only job I got. Thankfully, because it was a great fit for who I was, the community of people that he built, that we built at WH Trading was amazing. But it's just like orienting myself. Boyd is a great example.

When his episode just got released today, I heard Boyd on a podcast. Halfway through the podcast, I got online. I was like, I need to see if there's any of these retreats he's talking about, if they're available, because I need to be in this person's space. I need to learn whatever I need to learn from him. So I went in July of 2019 to a retreat. It was me, five other guys I didn't know. It was epic. As you can imagine, you've met Boyd.

In South Africa? In South Africa. And from there, he and I built an incredible relationship. Now, I was drawn to him. And whether we built that relationship or not was not important. What I want to know is what medicine is, you know, I know this language now, but what medicine is this person carrying that I need? And so the best way for me is to spend time with them versus just reading their book or hearing them on a podcast. I want to be with them. I want to be in relationship, whatever that looks like, so that I can go deeper into what they're carrying. What was the epiphany of you

being so driven with money, it sounds like, to changing? And was it long? Was it short? Was it in a minute? What was it? It was short. And it was four years ago, October 1st of 2017. I was at the Route 91 Music Festival when Jason Aldean was playing. So I was there with a friend of mine at the mass shooting. Wow. Holy shit. That was it. That was the thing that changed everything for me.

And where were you exactly? Because obviously some people can contextualize knowing the space, but also everybody saw it on the news. Yeah. Where exactly were you when that took place? So we were at the side stage. That was the side closest to where he was shooting from. In between, we were between that side stage

and the tour buses. So he was basically shooting. I mean, the tour buses got hit and shooting into the infield. And so we were taking cover behind the tour buses. There were probably 70 or 80 of us that were huddled as close as we could be to the tour buses. We didn't really know what was going on. We didn't know if it was one person, 50, if they were coming into the grounds to like,

if it's a terrorist attack, we just had, we had no information. And family was not there. No, it's just me and a friend of mine. we had no information. And family was not there. No, it was just me and a friend of mine. Did you know right away what was going on? Like as yourself? No. We're actually walking towards the fire as it turned out.

And there, it sounded like fireworks were going off. So my initial reaction, what the fuck? Someone, I can't hear. Can I swear? Yeah.

It's been done before. Okay. I can't hear the song. This fireworks going off. And then it happened again. And it sounded like a power line had snapped and was- It was loud enough to go over the music. Oh yeah. You heard it. It was pretty intense. And then my buddy and I just naturally kind of gravitated to where people were gathering. And we huddled down and then someone, I don't know, a minute, two minutes in was like, there's a shooter, take cover, get as close as you can to the bus, don't stand up.

Maybe three, four minutes later, someone had gotten hit and there was someone who had had some military training. He said, look, this is the type of surrounds that are being shot. If you get hit, you'll be okay as long as it's not in one of your vitals. So don't panic. Oh yeah, that's real. It was actually somewhat reassuring. Yeah, that's like smart that he said that to you guys.

Sure, but normal people who have not been in a firefighter, it's still absolutely terrifying. It is. And you know, so it's interesting. And I wouldn't say like, I'm this dude who's like super courageous in the face of something like this. But I just got quiet and paid attention

and listened to one or two of the people that were giving instructions. And in that moment, and I wasn't the only one, it was very calm back there. I think what happens is your body takes over because your mind will put you in a bad place. And I think so getting reassurance that, hey, yeah, this is bad, but you will survive if you get hit. I said, okay, got it. But you're not even processing it. You're just in the moment. And while I was there, it was the awakening. Wow, it could be over right now. And I wasn't scared about it being over. I wasn't sad that it may be over. I was pissed. I was like, fuck, I did it. I won the game. I played by the rules. I won. And here I am.

If it ends now, I'm not fulfilled. This wasn't it. Okay. So as you know, if you listen to the episode with my trainer, Brent, I have been doing a little weightlifting. I've incorporated that into my routine. And one of the most important things after I weightlift is refueling with protein. So what I've been doing is I've been using like a non-dairy milk or water, and then I'll use cacao. And then I add a bunch of chia and flaxseed and then my protein powder. And the protein powder that I've been using, as you guys know, is Ritual. So first I was introduced to Ritual about three years ago. I started taking their vitamin. It's like a multivitamin. I love the ingredients. I

love the research behind it. I loved how they were upfront. Everything was traceable, the science. And then to know that they also launched a protein powder is just amazing. I took their prenatal the whole time with Zaza and now I do their multivitamin and the protein powder. And the protein powder is so easy to incorporate into your diet. But most importantly, it's not filled with added shit. If you go look on the internet, it will drive you wild how many protein powders are full of all this nasty filler shit. With Ritual, you know exactly what you're getting. It's clean, it's plant-based, and it's here to support nutrient needs of different life stages.

So it has 20 grams of pea protein. I do two scoops in my smoothie and it has amino acids too, which are amazing for your skin. It tastes kind of like vanilla-y. It actually has real vanilla in it. It's like this handcrafted vanilla flavor. There's no added sugar, no sugar alcohols, just like all Ritual products. There's no soy, there's no gluten, and it's formulated with, of course, non-GMO ingredients. I think it's the cleanest protein on the market that I've seen. So why not shake up your Ritual? Try my shake smoothie situation. To make trying something new less scary, Ritual offers a money-back guarantee if you're not 100% in love. Plus, our listeners get 10% off during your first three months. You are going to visit

ritual.com slash skinny to add essential protein today. That's ritual.com slash skinny. And when you say you played the game and won, just because I want to fill in here, for reference at that time, your mind said, what did you think winning the game was? I retired at 41. I had great friends. I had a great life. Instagram, I had a great life. I think a lot of people think that's winning the game, which is part of why I wanted to have you on here, because there's a lot of young people listening to this thinking like, hey, if I do this, make this bundle of money, retire at this age that I've won. Retiring at 41 with three children and a wife is not an easy feat. I mean, that's very incredible too. So I can see how you thought I won the game. So what was going through your head

as this is going on? What did I do wrong? And then I was pissed. I was like, this is not it. And again, I wasn't even thinking, if I get out of here, then I'm going to figure out what it is. It was something just awoken inside me. And what happened was, but before I go on, I want to address what you just said, Michael. I think it's really important for people to still go and try to do those things. I'm not saying don't try to retire at 41 or whatever the number is. Go do that and have your own experience with that. And if that works for you, great. It didn't work for me. And I think the people that I've been talking to, it doesn't work for them either.

But don't take my word for it. Have your own experience and see if that fills in all that emptiness that we feel because it's just another form of numbing. Whether it's obviously booze is a very common one in drugs, but for me, working out was that. I got so into that that that was my central focus. Honestly, I wasn't that cool to be around if you were my wife, because that was such a priority for me. Building, for me, it's like trying to be in the right relationship with all of those things has been part of my journey. And also just for the audience to really tell the story, how do you get out of this and what does it look like after you're out of this? And what does it look like after you're out of this? As I said, something

happened inside me. And for probably the next 18 months, I just started to follow the breadcrumbs of what I was curious about. And it was all leading to another form of, again again building a relationship with myself not needing the external like what would it mean if everything I needed was inside me because what I was reading at that point now right so now I'm starting to read all the books listen to the podcasts it's all about you carrying everything you need and our world is largely based upon external validation and it comes in many different forms, but I was definitely tied to a lot of that.

So could I separate from the need to have someone validate me? Could I just be okay with me? And what would that mean? And it's this whole journey that again, that I went, it took me 18 months until it clicked, like, oh, I'm just trying to figure out why I'm here. But again, without knowing it was really challenging for my wife. She's like, what's kind of happening to you? And I was so

intense about it, which was my way, that I dove deep into it and largely kind of shut her out. So she didn't even know what I was going through. Is he going to leave me? Like, what's, is he cheating on me? Like all the thoughts that are going through her mind. And I didn't have language for what was happening. And so that was a really challenging period for us.

Like where we almost split up because I didn't know what was going on. I knew what had been happening up until then wasn't the way. And using those old skills of getting to the bottom of something, I was trying to figure it out. And again, it was part of my process to understand that it's all right here available. If again, if I can just accept myself and all those parts of myself that I talked about in the beginning, can I just love those parts of myself? Like authentically, can I understand that in those moments, what I was feeling, how I acted, I was doing the best I could. So right after the shooting, when you call your wife, are you expressing any of this to her? Or

were you just calling her and it was just you guys are reconnecting? What did that look like right after? It sounds like it took 18 months for you to realize this. But were there any little breadcrumbs that you were telling her right after this happened or what does that look like? None, none. When we got a hold of one another, again, her experience and my mom happened to be there at the house at the time, just how scared they were. I didn't have any of that because it was me and I was having a completely different experience. And just all the emotion they were sharing. And I didn't even know how to receive that because here I was just like, probably in a state of shock still of like,

what the fuck just happened? Like watching the news, it being the biggest massacre in US history, whatever it was like, I was just there. Like, it just, just didn't make sense. With a ton. I mean, I can't imagine trying to process that in a short period of time, especially after getting right out of it. Yeah. But at the same time, I was actually okay. I was with a friend and we were there for one another. And since when I got back, I went and

saw a counselor just to make sure I didn't have anything lingering. And after the third one, she was like, dude, like you're good. Like you're showing no signs of it. And I, I still haven't, I still, you know, walking to the bathroom at night, I'm always wondering like, am I going to get freaked out being in the dark? And because it was at night, none of that shit bothers me. But to your question, Lauren, I met somebody two days later. So it was on a Sunday, on a Tuesday, I was at Onnit doing an NAD IV therapy. I met a guy named Kyle Kingsbury, who's deep in that work already. And I just totally clicked with him. And so for the next eight days, I was doing this therapy. It was a big loading dose. And he was just filling me with information

and resources about how to start to navigate what was starting to come up in me. This was very much just like absorbing what he was sharing with me. And I continued to do that. And I would do a five-day silent retreat. And I would do other weekends to try to dig into this self-work. And up to this point, had you been doing anything like this kind of work? No. Or was it just like, go to work, go to the gym, the basic stuff? Basic stuff. And really, that summer leading up to October 1st, we go away every summer. We're up in a golf and lake community.

And there's a tendency for it to be summer camp and for it to get out of control if you don't keep your hands on the reins. And for me, that summer was particularly slippery because I was drinking more than I had before. And I was using cannabis probably on a daily basis and really just numbing out. And when I got home, I was like, I need to get my shit together. I know how to be disciplined. I know how to get back in the gym and start to find some purpose around that. So I was starting on that journey and part of it was to do the NAD.

So thankfully I had the awareness so I wouldn't have shown up there and maybe it would have been a much different process for me. Better or worse, I don't know. But meeting Kyle, he was like the gateway for me into this whole other world. Of what? Of figuring out why I'm here.

And what did those tools in your toolbox look like? Like, are we talking ayahuasca? Are we talking, it sounds like we're talking retreats. What else? Yeah, so not ayahuasca, but three weeks after meeting Kyle, we did an ayahuasca level mushroom ceremony, which I had done mushrooms before, but never five grams. And with the intention of feeling that death and what does that mean and what else comes into the field in that experience.

And so that for me, like opened up a whole new portal. And so meditation, breath work, cold water therapy, the kind of all practices, being out in the sun, like just things that we all need to be doing, but I just hadn't done. So I started to introduce all these things again with the same intensity that I would do anything. So it was super intense for Peyton. Yeah, you seem like an intense person.

Yes, I can be. I mean, I love that. It's passionate. You seem like whatever you do, Yes, I can be. I mean, I love that. It's passionate. You seem like whatever you do, you are the highest intensity at it. But I can see from your wife's perspective, if you hadn't been doing these things and all of a sudden you're slamming in AD,

you're getting in cold plunges, you're going in the sun, you're doing these intense workouts, you're doing the psychotherapies and all these things that we've all done. Like that's a full left or right turn from where you were. Yes. And so for me today, I know how to go into something and have a little more discernment around.

Now I can turn up the intensity. I feel like the appropriate way now. Before it was the old adage, when you're a hammer, everything's a nail. You know, it got to to be later that summer. So that, again, this happened October, 2017. Summer of 2018, I wasn't drinking. I was taking really good care of myself. All these practices that were restorative.

And at the end of the summer, we're coming back from Idaho. She's like, I can't do this again. And I'm just like, what the, what are you talking about? I'm taking such good care of myself. She's like, there's such an intensity to it that I, it's just you. Also, I should just mention that I have met your wife and she seems like a very mother earth, wh motherly beautiful just very go with the flow to me i met her once i could be completely wrong she seems like a very accepting open non-judgmental person i think that's that's very accurate but she also has her wounds too so that's so my stuff will trigger her stuff just like vice versa everybody that has that yeah so i i think to

to a certain point, but she gets pushed into a corner, she comes out fighting, which is great. I just am trying to be aware not to push her into the corner to see the signals so that we can find that common ground. I've already introduced you to this. I've already talked about it, telling blue in the face, but Versed is the cleanest drugstore skincare brand out there. I'm a big drugstore girl. I love certain things that are pricey, but then I'll also find like these drugstore items that I cannot live without. And Versed has products that I keep going back to, specifically their lip oil. I use it all the time, especially under lipstick. I feel like it gives your lips like this plumpness,

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That's available at versedskin.com spelled V-E-R-S-E-D-S-K-I-N.com promo code SKINNY. So one of the topics I want to stay on because again, imagine this audience, a millennial audience, everybody early in their career working their asses off trying to better themselves. They look at someone like you as an inspiration. You have the story, right? You have the family, you've had the financial success. You're doing all this work on yourself. You're in great shape. You're healthy, all these things.

But taking it a step back, there's a lot of people, myself included at one point, where you get on this kind of hamster wheel, especially, and we talked about this with Boyd, this society kind of validates financial success and the hustle and all these things. So a lot of people go through life thinking probably exactly what you and I have thought at different times, which I'm going to hit this milestone. When I hit the milestone, my life's going to be great. I'm going to be able to do X, Y, and Z. I'm going to be happy. Everything will solve itself. There are some parallels between you two. I'm not going to lie. When you're talking, I'm just like, whoa, someone needs this podcast. And listen, maybe part of me is still in it, but a few years ago, I like to say I had my midlife crisis in my late 20s,

if that makes sense, Lauren. I love it. Yeah, you did. But my personal realization is no matter how well you do financially, that is not necessarily going to create the happiness or the freedom that you think it will. Like there's money to a point,

obviously can solve things. If you can pay your bills and go to dinner and take care of your family and not worry about medical pay, all those things. There's a base level that I see. But beyond that, I find if you're not a fulfilled person in other areas, that it doesn't really add much to the pie. That's my personal take.

I want to hear it from your perspective because again, there's a lot of young people that are sitting here listening and thinking, if I hit these milestones, my life is going to solve itself. Yeah. So, great. I'm glad you brought that up. Just for everyone listening, just pay attention when you hit those milestones, what changes in your life, what changes besides the fact that you can buy a nicer car, go on a nicer vacation, whatever, fill in the blank, what actually happens in your life? How do you feel differently about yourself? For a moment, you will.

I know I did when I got a big bonus or hit these different kind of markers. It was really, the joy for me was in the journey of getting there. And when I got there, I was like, fuck, it's over. Okay, what's the next thing? You do that enough, hopefully you realize that you're on that hamster wheel. There's always another thing. And someone could argue, well, but you're producing, you're creating, you're

building more wealth, and you're always keeping something out in front of you. But I think largely it becomes unconscious. And for me, I want to be good no matter what's happening in that space. Because a lot of that stuff is largely out of my control, actually. Sure, I can put in the work, I can put together the pieces to try to create wealth in different areas. But can I be okay when I'm putting money into crypto and it's down 30%? Back in the day, I used to take that personally and beat myself up about it. Now, I'm like, duh, this is part of the game. Okay, is now a time to buy more or should I wait? Or

it has nothing to do with who I am. It's a game I'm playing. And so what's really helped me is to orient my entire life around what brings me joy. And I think this is something useful for a lot of people because we're often told to pursue our purpose, blah, blah, blah, blah, like all that bullshit that doesn't give anybody any direction. This is why I love Boyd's work so much. It's like track what's alive in you.

The smallest thing, track that. That's the next track. And for those things that aren't, those things that make you feel constricted versus open, start to move away from those things. Give those to someone else. Figure out some way to either get those out of your life or change your connection to them. Maybe they are actually helping you on your path and they're a necessary piece, but we need to spend as much time in that energy of joy around all the things that people you spend time with. Those people that suck the energy from you, cut them out of your life. You don't need to be a dick about it, but be discerning, have boundaries. And it all kind of works together. When you are carrying shame and guilt for whatever,

you don't have boundaries. I know speaking for myself, again, I was financially successful. I'd have friends that were starting these different business opportunities. And I would invest not because I thought it was a great idea, but because I had the money and I should and I feel guilty if I don't.

And there's all this lower energy shit that's wrapped up in that. Once I started to understand that I earned the abundance, that that's who I am, that I create abundance, then I started to have those boundaries. In the interim, I had to convince myself to say no, even though I didn't quite feel it yet. Now I feel it. I can say no with an open heart and move on and not feel like you're going to take it personally, Michael, that I didn't invest in your thing.

I totally understand that area, what you just said of feeling guilty that maybe a part of your life has abundance and you feel almost bad. If someone comes to you to invest, it's a friend. We're obligated. Yeah. It's a heavy, you're right, it's a low frequency feeling. Instead of doing something because you're passionate about it, and I don't know if that's the right word, but you're excited about it maybe, or you think it's a really great idea, regardless of who it is. Well, let's use like a very basic example. Even if you talk about like the track of your life with Boyd and doing what you actually enjoy doing. You know, there's all these young guys now and I'll use guys,

I'll pick on the guys that are, you know, all of a sudden overnight, they're day traders, right? Like they're trading crypto, they're trading this and it's fine, like great. But they're doing it maybe for the wrong reasons. Maybe they're not doing this, they actually enjoy being a trader and actually want to, they're doing it because they're trading this and it's fine like great but they're they're doing it maybe for the wrong reasons maybe they're not doing this they actually enjoy being a trader and actually want to they're doing it because they're chasing a quick buck right sure and they think that's going to create longevity and even if you have a big hit somewhere it's like well then what right and i don't think people answer that question very frequently but there's going to be a whole trail of tears of the majority of them especially now because it's early that have complete opposite stories where it's like it ends the wrong way and then you have to go and figure

out what you actually want to be doing. COVID sort of forced us all to track our life, like what Boyd says. Gave us the opportunity to, not everybody decided to, but yes, 100%. And I think if you look at COVID as an opportunity, and listen, I know it's affected tons of people. And you know what? It sucks that we always have to, every time on my podcast, I feel like's affected tons of people. And you know what? It sucks that we always have to... Every time on my podcast, I feel like I got to couch it. We know people have lost...

But it was an opportunity. It was an awakening if you stepped in. And we all had shit we had to deal with. I agree. 100%. Well, at this point, it's a choice if you want to live that way. But if you start tracking your life when we were in COVID and you start really realizing, for us, we were in LA and we were like, wait, what are we doing?

What are we doing? And it drove us here. I think that it is important what Boyd says to track the steps of what is what you really, really want. We don't get in tune with that enough. I want to go back to when you were in the car with your wife because you guys seem like you have a great relationship. And a lot of this podcast, we talk about relationships and the wellness within relationships. When she said that to you,

what was your response? My response was, what the fuck are you talking about? Like, look at how great I'm doing. So much virtue signaling. I had no idea. I was so righteous. And it was actually a phone call and she was actually still in Idaho. I had just, I'd come back a little bit early. And I remember after the conversation, what the fuck? She doesn't know what,

nothing I do is ever enough. And it's like a few years later, I understand that that's my own wounding. Why do I feel like I have to be perfect? Why do I feel like we're having, we're in a great space. And then I do one thing that triggers something, feedback from her about how I'm showing up or not showing up,

why can't I give myself the grace to understand that I've come a long way and I'm never going to have it all figured out. There are going to be things that still trip her up and trip me up, it's okay. She's giving me an opportunity to rework that pattern. But for so long, my immediate response was, fuck man, you can't get it right. When we're brought up in a society where there's a right and a wrong and there's this idea of perfection, you'll never get it right and you'll always be a failure. And it was so deflating for me. And I was doing a podcast with a close

friend of mine and he actually reflected it back to me. He's like, dude, you need to give yourself some grace. You used to run a 10 minute mile. You're running a 530 now. You didn't win. Are you really running a 530? No, I'm not. Maybe sub six, but I'd be hurting after. There'd have to be a fucking bear chasing me. But that really helped me. It doesn't mean I always give myself grace. I still don't. When I don't give myself grace, I don't receive actually what she's trying to reflect back to me. I go into my wounded little child and I, for me, my, my pattern is to shut down.

She knows this. I try not to shut down. And Boyd unsurprisingly gave me just probably the best piece of advice I've heard in a long time. He says, Cal, when she comes to you, is she going to listen to this? Is she going to know my trick? But when she comes to you with feedback, say thank you and say, tell me more.

Because I... Are you taking notes, motherfucker? I have my computer out. Shit, I just closed it. But, and the idea is, because that's what I want to, like, I want to be a better partner. So she's giving me feedback.

And if I can't receive it, then I'm not going to open up that space. But if I can say thank you and understand that she is actually trying to help me in my quest to be a better version of who I am, then she actually isn't worried about bringing me stuff because every time in the past she's brought me something, she's been met with something that hasn't been open-hearted so what if i change the pattern because for 20 almost 22 years that mode hasn't worked so maybe we'll try this other one and i've done it a couple times a couple times i haven't so i'm still a work in progress but

it completely changes the energy of it. Let me play devil's advocate with you for a little bit for the young, I don't want to say young, but for the people listening that are saying, well, something this guy was doing then worked out, right? Like they're going to play that card. They're like, on paper, it worked out. What's your answer for people when they say, well, you know, that version of yourself obviously

got you all of these things. Okay. So recently I was talking to my friend Josh. He's a body worker and he was telling me the importance of having clean products in your home. And I think so many of us don't even think about that. It's so crazy how we don't evaluate what is in our home to clean our house. And I think so many of us don't even think about that. It's so crazy how we don't evaluate what is in our home to clean our house. So I was recently introduced to Public Goods. And you guys, let me tell you, this is your one-stop shop for sustainable, high-quality, everyday essentials. And it's all made from clean ingredients, but it's affordable. It's kind of like everything you could want for your home from coffee to toilet paper, to shampoo, to pet food, to paper towels, to bathroom cleaner. It's all there and they've done all the work for you. So you don't have to go like scouring reviews and the internet and like going to Whole Foods

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Him and Her listeners. You are going to receive $15 off your first public goods order with no minimum purchase. You guys, that's like free money. That's right. They're so confident that you will absolutely love their products and come back again and again and again that they're giving you guys $15 to spend on your first purchase. You have nothing to lose here. Just go to publicgoods.com slash skinny or use code skinny at checkout. That is P-U-B-L-I-C-G-O-O-D-S.com forward slash skinny, and you're going to receive $15 off your first order. Shop the household goods I am telling you. yeah and i would say absolutely that and to your point even earlier where maybe there's a lot of young people that are playing in the crypto space and they're day traders now this is all part of their experience to understand that it is or isn't the thing for them. Like they're going to learn in this,

just like I'm learning in crypto right now. I just am learning different things about myself with my relationship to what happens in that space and how I'm either triggered or not, or how I'm just very accepting of all of that. But I would say, again, have your own experience with this. And what I was doing, I wouldn't change anything. I'm grateful for the financial abundance I have.

It allows me, now that I have a different relationship with it and myself and working out and all the things, I get to integrate all these things back. And so for the people listening, for my experience, don't try to get it right. And if you do try to get it right, that's okay too. It's still part of the learning, but just like pay attention and know that everything is part of what's going to inform you going forward. Again, the path of here and the path of not here. It's all part of it. So part of my journey has been to love the version of myself that was trader cow. It was really hard for me as I was kind of waking up and becoming more self-aware and more conscious of other things that were actually really important

to me. It's like, oh, I had some shame around being a trader and what it meant to be in the pit. And we were just there to make money. And I just wouldn't bring it up a lot. And again, he's a, mentioned him one more time. Boy, we were having, you know, I had him on the podcast. He said, Cal, when you learn to love that version of yourself, there's real medicine in there for you. You wouldn't be the person you are without that version.

No. And it wasn't nearly as bad as I was making it out to be. My buddies are like, dude, you weren't that bad. It's like, but when you swing so far to one side, the other, it seems like such a large distance to traverse that I almost couldn't identify with him anymore. And that was just me. That was the shame coming in. Yeah, that makes total sense. You mentioned that you, during your wife's pregnancy and when your kids were younger, you look back and you, I don't want to say regret,

but there's things that you would change. What were those things that you would change? There's a lot of young dads listening. What are some tips and tricks that you would give? Awesome. Yeah. And it's funny. I had recorded a podcast earlier today with a close friend of mine whose wife is pregnant with their second. And he was asking me kind of some sage advice. And I said, I wish- Get your notebook out. I wish that when Peyton was going through this period of our life, that I could really, that I would have shown up for her. Because when you have one already in the house and you have one on the way, when you have that nausea and whatever is taking you down from being pregnant,

which again, I don't know, I've never experienced it, but I know it's fucking crippling. They can't really tend to the little one. That's our opportunity to really show up, to come in, be with the little one so mom can rest because there is, and I just couldn't, I never wrapped my head around the fact that there's a growing baby inside my wife.

I just, I was so in my own shit, going to work, like building that business and just all the self-centered pieces that I was dealing with that I wasn't conscious and I wasn't showing up. And so just ask. Ask what she needs. I think there's a lot of young dads, especially growing up in this society, that think they're doing what they're supposed to be doing by tending to the business or going to work. We've grown up, you think about the television

shows that we all grew up with. There's this version of the mom taking care of all the kids, pregnant, slaving away over the oven. And then there's the dad briefcase jacket going to the office, right? So I think you grow up with that version. You think that you're doing the right thing. And a lot of young guys just don't even think like, oh, I should ask. But I feel like sometimes men can get lazy in relationships when they've been in a relationship for a long time. How do you check yourself? It sounds like you're self-aware enough to know that you wanted to show up this way when she was pregnant. What are some ways that you show up for your wife now? Yeah, for one, I ask her what she needs, you know, when things aren't quite right. Now, I still don't do it as much as I would like, but just being open to the fact, like, again, part of my story is that if something's going on with Peyton and her energy's off, that I've caused out. And so for me, like summon up the courage to just say,

Hey, is everything okay? Can I help you with whatever? And that's the other thing. Like I try to be of service around the house and it's not like I was a total flake on that, but I try to be more intentional about showing up in ways that she's not asking me. I know what shit needs to be done around the house. Yeah, and really giving her space to find out who she is. She's given me the space to go on my exploration. What can I do to support her in her journey? And then like, what would it look like

when we are going through this together? Because I think there's an individuated piece between the two of us. But if our relationship is going to sustain, we need to find like these parts of who we're turning into, who we're growing into that still love one another and are still attracted to one another. And it's like tuning into those things. How do you guys make time for each other with three children?

That's a lot of children. It is, but they're older now. So what about when they were younger? It was hard. Some standard things are once a week, date night, or twice a week if you can do it, but it's getting help. Some people, they like to be the martyr and not get any help.

I love help. Yes. Thank God for help. Yes. My God, what would I do without help? And if you're fortunate enough to be able to afford it, then it's not about you not being able to do it. Or even if you can't afford it, if you have family members who can help or friends, help is not a bad word. No. Well, a lot of people feel shame, right? They think if I'm not doing

everything, then i'm a bad parent yeah you know someone's got six kids and they can do it all on their own i don't fucking care well there's and there's also judgment too right especially in the parenting community oh you have help oh you're not you know you're not i feel like that's deflection though no but but i'm saying there's there's personal shame right feeling that and then there's shame that's projected from others that are judging we need to normalize help sure well it's Well, it's not just, it's like, listen, if I said, hey... Or wanting help. But even, let's take another example.

Let's take a business, right? If I said, hey, just go do all this on your own. It's impossible, right? Exactly. And I think people forget we grew up in a, I mean, we've evolved as humans, but I would start to say, even though we have a larger population,

the community has gotten smaller and more disconnected over time, right? Like we grew up in these tribal societies where there's multiple adults raising multiple children and there's a ton of siblings, right, that are around. Now, we're a little bit more isolated, right? There's the household. And if you're lucky, maybe there's two parents, but there's a lot of cases now where there's one, right? And there's less siblings. And so we've also started to evolve into a period of time where there's less community, less parenting, less help. So this is even more of an opportunity for us to seek out help. Does that make sense? That makes a ton of sense. And I would say, I forget who it was. This is kind of, I remember Bill Burr was talking about Oprah. But what he

said is, Oprah said, I'm not going to give his bit. I'll just go to the first part of it because it's appropriate here. The second part, not. But Oprah said, I'm not going to give his bit. I'll just go to the first part of it because it's appropriate here. The second part, not, but you know, Oprah said, you know, being a mom is the hardest job in the world, right? Well, if it is, then why don't you get some help? And I think anyone who has a real challenge about, and I have one of my best friends, his wife grew up in a home where her mom did it, did it all. And it was fucking hard. She did it. And unfortunately she's taken that on and their relationship has really suffered because he works a lot. And when he's home, they have no time. They don't have any help where they're regularly going out and spending time, just the two of them. And so this is her trying to live up to what she thinks she needs to because her mom did it.

That's an old story. You don't need to do that anymore. And one of the things that we started to recognize is that the help we were receiving, especially as the kids got older, it wasn't necessarily for them to watch the kids. It was actually for them to run the errands, go to Whole Foods, drop this off at the store, whatever it is so that we're not in the car

all day doing that. We can actually be home, largely Peyton could be home with the kids and be with them rather than have to do all the errands. So that's just another way where people can make time for themselves or them to be with their kids. It's getting some help. Yeah. Here's the way I view. I mean, luckily, we're fortunate enough to work and be able to afford some help. But I look at it as if we're at home and we're both, we both work. So we're constantly working and then we get home and it's constantly chores and do this

for the kid, do this for the baby. It strips out all the intimacy, both from our relationship. And it also makes it a chore to be with the kid, right? So by having help, we can take time for ourselves to one, take care of the intimacy between us because that's the most important thing. That's how you stay together. And then two, which is some people disagree with this.

I think the kids come second, right? It's like if, if, if the couple's solid and they have a good foundation and they're happy and there's intimacy and then you have time, like when you start parenting, it feels like you're parenting.

It feels like, Hey, you had to spend this quality time. It doesn't feel like a chore. And so if I had an extra dollar, it's going to be to go towards help and not, maybe I got to sacrifice going out on the weekends or having alcohol or buying fancy clothing or bags or a car. But like, to me, the other thing is a much better way to spend money. Totally. And I

would, I would almost say the first step is actually filling your cup and then the intimacy and then the, the, the kid, because the kid will pick up if you're there or not. Believe me, I've been present but not present and I know the difference. And so I think, and you're right, I think that will trigger some people to say, what do you mean the kids? It's like the old airplane thing. You got to take care of your oxygen mask first. You need to be there because otherwise, just being physically present is not enough. They need you.

Yeah. I've watched, and I don't want to pick on anyone, and I'm conscious to try to not let this happen in our marriage, but I've watched couples go from being these loving, intimate couples that go out and have fun together to becoming just parents and partners. And the way I want to say this is their relationship changes from this thing where they enjoy and love each other and are intimate together to this thing where it's like, they're just running around parenting, right? They're not connected anymore. They're almost like business partners in the relationship to their child. They have let the child come in and basically dictate the terms of what their life is. I'd rather not be married. I'm sorry. I'm going to just say that. For me,

I'd rather not be married. I don't want to be in a relationship with a business partner, but you are right. That is happening a lot. I think it happens to a lot of couples because the child is born. Everyone's new to it. You say, okay, now I have to base my life around this child as opposed to like, hey, this child have to base my life around this child as opposed to like, hey, this child's coming into our life, our relationship, and this thing has to be protected. Does that make sense? I am going to tell you how to create the most zen bedroom ever. I like to wind down every single night and take my cortisol way down. And that requires a few tools. Okay. The first one is a salt rock lamp. Okay. You can get a nightlight, plug it in the

wall. It's perfect. Then you got to have an oil diffuser, perhaps a humidifier. The skinny confidential one is so cute. And then you need red lights. Okay. So switch your bulbs out to red light, but most importantly, you need comfortable sheets, okay? This is a must. I like my sheets linen. I've always been like this. I just like linen sheets. They remind me of just like buttery deliciousness that give you the best sleep of your life. I have a king size bed. So what I'll do is I'll get the whole brook linen package in king and I'll do white usually. I have also gotten the pink ones for the guest room. Sorry, Michael. They have this like move-in bundle that's so good. I got the stark

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promo code skinny for 20% off with a minimum purchase of $100. Brooklinen.com, use promo code SKINNY. Yeah, it's a great point. And again, these kids, they do need us. But what does happen is, and we've heard this for as long as we've been alive, kids are our greatest teachers. In this case, the kid comes into the relationship to teach you what the triggers are for both of you.

And if you're not willing to go in and work on those things, because it's going to come up when a kid enters, because everything was great before the kid. Now this is real life. How are you going to respond to that? And I think a lot of couples, and Peyton and I have been through that experience. I only speak from my own experience where you are just business partners in some ways trying to survive, definitely not trying to thrive. And it just creates resentment. And then there's the lack of communication. And then there's the lack of sleep.

And then I get busy with work. And she's doing her thing. And then she's being the martyr with the kids and doing all these fun things when I'm away. And we create this whole thing where, you know, kind of unconsciously, we're just driving a bigger and bigger wedge in between us. But I think those are the opportunities for us to say, okay, this is hard. This is shit we didn't know was going to happen. We had this child in our life. You did this and this is how it made me feel.

Like, let's put this out on the table. Like, let's sort this shit out rather than let it fester and create something that for some people is, you can't turn back from. It gets so deep, you know? And again, Peyton and I have been in, you know, wobbly situation a couple of different times. And if not for her really having the courage to say, look, I'm not okay with this. I'm not okay with where this is going. We're like, there's no intimacy. There's no love.

Like, I'd rather go find it somewhere else if you're not going to give it to me, you know? And so that's, those are the hard conversations, but it takes someone stepping up. She sounds amazing. you're not going to give it to me. And so those are the hard conversations, but it takes someone stepping up. She sounds amazing. You now have an 18-year-old. My question is a lot of people put their identity in their child and then when they turn 18 and maybe they're about to leave the house or they leave the house, it can be a lot. How has that chapter of your life gone? I don't know if it could have gone better. I would say with my personal awakening and then I would say over the last couple of years, just really

tuning into my role in each of these kids' lives and to understand that they are on their own kind of soul journey. And if that's too woo-woo for you, then that they're on their own path. I'm here to support them, to love them, to provide a safe environment for them, but they need to have their own experience. And this is what I talk about on my podcast. It's really about having your own experience, period. So I offer that to them and I make space for them to fuck up and they do. And

the consequences aren't necessarily coming from me. They're coming from the world. You do this, this is what's going to happen. And so whether it's experimenting with booze or pot or whatever, I just open space for them to be curious in that. My ultimate goal with them is that when the shit, if and when the shit really hits the fan, that I'm the first phone call, that they have enough trust in me, that I've shown up enough up until that moment, not just with my words, but with when they've tested me and I've been there, that they're going to call me and seek counsel when they're in a state of fear. And we know that when we're in a state of fear, we make shitty decisions.

So I want them to be able to come to me and ask me about psychedelics. My 15-year-old is super interested in it. I'm like, you're a little young for it right now, but here are three or four books that are going to be really good for you. He's already listened to a bunch of Joe Rogan. He listened to my podcast when I talk about it. Ooh, we didn't think about that, do we? I did. No, I'm like, Oh, don't listen to half my episodes. Yeah. Well, you may, now you may be starting to think about that. I was very well aware that my kids have access and their friends have access to it. So I need to be to half my episodes. Yeah, well, you may be starting to think about that. I was very well aware that my kids have access and their friends have access to it. So I need to be in integrity with that.

And so when they ask me, dad, have you done cocaine? I can say, no. Dad, have you done ketamine? I can say, yes. And I'm just straight with them because they know if I'm not being straight. And so that's just building trust for us. It's just a different way of parenting

than I think what we're taught. I think that's one of the, in my personal opinion, is one of the best. My dad is in his 70s now and he grew up in a wild time. But I remember from when I was 10 years old, he would tell me about basically

every experience he had, the good and the bad. And so when it came to the point of, I've also never and the bad. And so when it came to the point of, I've also never done cocaine in my life. And when it came to the point of, this stuff's going around in school or when you're younger or whatever, I was able to make the decision not to do those things

because he had already told me so much about his experience that he took all the stigmas out of it. He took all the mystery out of it. He's like, if you do these, one, it's different than when he was a kid. The stuff now is on the street. That's, I mean, everything that's going on is extremely dangerous. But at of it. He's like, if you do these, one, it's different than when he was a kid. The stuff now is on the street. That's, I mean, everything that's going on is extremely dangerous.

But at the time he's like, you know, it's probably not as good. And also like, this is what happens and this is what you'll feel. And so by having that conversation, he created a space where I always felt that if I was going to do something, I could come directly to him without judgment.

And it kind of took the desire out of wanting to do any of it. And that's so rare. Yeah, he has a great dad. That's so rare. But what I guess what I'm saying is like, I think there's so many parents that are scared to have these conversations with their kids because they think I'm going to open that doorway. But the doorway is going to be opened by somebody else. Wide open. Come on, parents. I know someone who is, she's like this beautiful woman. She has three kids.

She's gorgeous. She fucks everyone. Great. Like she's dated and fucked everyone. You're talking about the mom? Yeah, the mom. And the mom

has not talked to her 23-year-old daughter once about birth control, sex, periods, nothing. And it's so wild.

Like that is going on. The parents are not having open conversations and it's so crazy because it's not in alignment even with what they're doing. Well, again, I think it's because they think they're going to open this doorway. But the point is, is like the doorway is being open. And if you don't have to give people the tools

to be able to answer that door in a responsible way then what are their buddies are going to answer it social media is going to answer it youtube whatever you porn it all is you'll love this peyton so peyton a lot of her work is is with women but she's started a course she's done it for a couple years now that is a mother-daughter course to share that whole experience of the cycle with the girl, but she has the mom present because in so many cases,

the mom doesn't even know, not because of any other reason that she was never taught and you're expected to know. And so it's just this beautiful, like, oh my gosh, that. What is it called if someone wants to go check it out? And could they follow her on Instagram? Yeah. Her Instagram is ohdearpayton. And I want to say the course is under paytoncallahan.com, but I don't know that for a

fact, but. She'll kick your ass after she hears it. Oh my gosh. I'm just kidding. But yes, it is some of the most amazing work. The feedback she gets from these girls where they'll share their first period and it's such a beautiful thing for them and they embrace it where culturally that's not happening at all. I can't believe that that's a big deal to talk about a period that naturally happens to every single woman. Right? Most every single woman. I can't believe that that's a big deal to talk about a period that naturally happens

to every single woman. Right. Most every single woman. I can't believe that. That's to me that I, Michael says that sometimes I'm not empathetic to other people's experiences, but I cannot believe that it is weird to talk about a period. Well, if there's like a spectrum of like filter and no filter, Lauren's on this side. She's past it.

I've already taught Zaza the word boobs and she's two. No, I want her to learn her body parts. It's important. It's not weird. I want to know, like, let's just do a plot twist here. Ketamine, you mentioned it.

Yes. What is that like? I've never done it. I'm interested in it in a way where I'm curious. Yeah, great question. So it's not a classic psychedelic. It's under the dissociative category, but a lot of it's not a classic psychedelic. It's under the dissociative

category, but a lot of people put it in the psychedelic because you can have a very psychedelic experience on it. Now, they use it for treatment-resistant depression and anxiety. So for PTSD, it's had a lot of success within psychotherapy. I used it under the direction of a doctor, but in my home and used it extensively for a couple of years. Have you had experiences with mushrooms? Yes. Okay. So you've been on that type of journey? Yes. It can be very similar to that where you're in this field of, wow, where am I? But it's a much easier place to work partly because the fear response is taken offline with ketamine. And so no matter what's going on, you can actually hold it. You can handle it. Like for instance, with mushrooms,

like I have to be outside. I can't look at my phone. If someone has bad energy, I can't deal with them. It seems like it's easier to get into the, because you're in your home. Yes. And you're also, it's a, I mean, you can do it with other people, but the experience itself is a very solitary. You're generally with an eye mask on and maybe some music. You can certainly sit around and have like a microdose of ketamine and have an amazing conversation, which I would definitely be down for. But there are different ways to play with it. But for me, I used to use it sometimes when I was writing because it would allow me to just like get into another space,

clear all these blockages and just flow. And it is, of all the tools I've used in that category, whether it's been MDMA, which is great for relationships, mushrooms, LSD, 5-MeO-DMT, which is the toad venom, which is the considered the psychedelic, the Everest of the psychedelics. Gnarlier than ayahuasca. Oh yeah. Gnarlier in the sense that it's a 15 minute like rocket ship. It's so intense. Why didn't you bring the toad today? We're just going to start with the feel free. We're going to maybe step with the feel free.

We're starting with the plant-based tonic. Feel free. Yes. So of all the ones I've worked with, that one has been by far the most useful. It would be- Ketamine. Ketamine. I would take baths and I would get into a dose of ketamine and get into the bath and just like all this stuff would come to me very clearly. It's just super creative. And not that I could see into the future, but I actually felt like I could. It's just super creative. And not that I could see into the future, but I actually felt like I could. It's like, oh, this all, and it allowed me when I was off the ketamine

to orient around, okay, what things do I need to change in order to make these things manifest? Wow, that's cool. It sounds like a tool. It's very much a tool. And this again, anyone listening, like I'm not a doctor, I can't prescribe it, do your own research.

This is what worked for me. And I went through a period, it's about a year ago is when I stopped, but I probably went five or six weeks where I was using it almost every day. Wow. Which is a lot. And the doctor would come over every day?

No, no, no. It was self-administered got it And how do you administer it yourself? This was a nasal spray or a lozenge and I got to the point and it was early december where I took a really large dose And I was flying back from la So it's like I wanted to take a large dose and get into this like deep like two hour

just experience on the plane because it's like what else am I just experience on the plane. Cause it's like, what else am I gonna do on the plane? Which sounds weird to people, but it was a lot of fun. It didn't affect me and it's never not affected me. It was like, that was the mess is like, you're good with this for a while. And so I didn't touch it for months. And even recently I've done it a few times,

but I haven't really been called to it. It's knocking a little bit right now because I do enjoy the exploration in that space. Again, think about mushrooms and how it can be pretty chaotic. I was like, what am I supposed to take from this? What's the lesson? For me, it's like you just leave the am I supposed to take from this? What's the lesson? You just, for me, it's like, you just leave the ketamine space with the knowing. You maybe can't put words to it,

but you just have a clear direction of, A, like you're just good. You start to see yourself and that's the dissociative effect of it is you see yourself from a different perspective and you realize all the stories that you're building up about the struggles you're having. It're having, that's not the truth. And mostly people walk away just feeling really good about who they are in their life. And they start to, like I said, let go of those stories

that are really holding them back from moving forward into those things that make you feel alive and bring you joy and that kind of curiosity of like, okay, what's next? What's fun for me? I got to try it. I would love for you to tell the audience other tools that you have in your toolbox. I know I would assume like cold punch, sauna, what are little things that you do to really keep your wellness on track? Yeah. First of all, I really pay attention to what I eat. And I don't mean that from 100% clean. I mean, I've done that before and it's great, but it's intense and there's drawbacks to that intensity. There's drawbacks to being so restricted in that space. So I don't necessarily recommend that. But if you can get to 85, 90% of what really healthy eating looks like,

that's really important. And I use intermittent fasting. Okay. And then so what do you break your fast with? It's usually with like today with some meat that we had from Thanksgiving and I had a half a banana, I think, but it was like a couple of big pieces of beef. I, I, yeah, I trend more towards the meat, but I'm not afraid of fruit and I eat vegetables at dinner, but I just don't, I'm not going to cook them for lunch. Where's the best meat place in Austin? Like cleanest meat. I feel like you would know. Salt and Thyme.

Salt and Thyme. Yeah, it's on East 7th. Okay. They're amazing. Okay. So what else? What other tools do you use? Yeah.

So you brought up sauna cold plunge and I had that at my house. So that's super convenient. But I also, I don't know. Have you guys familiar with Kuya? Have you been there yet? I have been there once. Michael has not.

I'm supposed to go this weekend maybe. You're going Saturday. It's already booked. Yeah, go. Go. Because at Kuya, anyone who's in Austin, please go check it out. You know, it's funny because we have a mutual friend in Dr. Conover. That's right.

So Conover's like got to go. Basically, people are raving about this place. Yeah, so when he was in town to do the podcast, he did mine either the same day or the day before. Oh, that's cool. Yes. We all got to go to Charleston. Yes.

And go in his sauna. Yes, we do. I want to go to... Me, you, Khalil, your wife, we all got to go to Charleston. He's the best. I love him. Yeah, I've been working with him. Well, he was the one who got me into the NAD.

He was very much a part of my awakening. I just did my first loading dose. Like I just finished it right before Thanksgiving. I'm going to faint if you start talking about your loading dose because I can't with the needles. He sent me a new method, which is a patch. Oh, I can handle a patch. You should be able to handle this.

This is way better. The needle, I can get okay. I'm okay with the needle, but the actual, the feeling that the IV gives me, I'll do it, but I prefer not to. It's brutal. Does the patch make you nauseous?

No, zero. You don't feel it at all. Why wouldn't you do the patch? Well, it wasn't offered to me at the time. It's not. What the hell, Dr. Conover? No, he's just testing it out right now. Okay, yeah.

And so we're not sure about the bioavailability. And the IV, 100% is getting into the system. We're not sure about the bioavailability with the patch. I wish we could do a nose spray. Yeah, I did it for... He has some NAD nose spray, but again, you're going to get 20% to 25% bioavailability. I'll try and explain to Lauren, but you know the feeling. I did

it four out of five days in a row. Yep. And it was intense. He said he did it like eight days in a row. It did. You have to do... No, yeah. So it took me a total of eight days because then I took the weekend off. Yeah. And then so like on day eight, I finished.

But that loading dose is intense. It is because you're going back in. And again, you're trying to like, I want this to be over with. So you push it, push it, push it. And then you just put yourself in the pain cave. Really, you could just take a little bit longer and it wouldn't be as bad.

But I heard your friend, and I don't know him but Kyle has the record and did it like two and a half minutes or something nuts like that that's wild yeah don't follow him into anything that's the guy that did it in two and a half minutes the guy that gave me the idea I was like who it's this weird thing when you do it now we're getting on tangent but you're like how fast can I do it

I can't talk about this this is going to make me faint with your vein the fastest I ever did it was 43 minutes which I I felt was pretty decent. But then he told me that Kyle did it in like two and a half and I was completely deflated. I was like, nevermind. Yeah. Yeah. Just do it at your own pace. Just go slow, please. So anyway, Kuya. So NAD Plus is actually something that's a part of my regular schedule. But at Kuya, I have the sauna and cold plunger at my house. But first of all, the community that's being built at Kuya is fucking amazing. Every time I go in there and I go in the sauna,

I meet someone or some people in just some way that it's such a vibe. And so you're in the sauna, 20 minutes, you go to the cold plunge sauna, you do a couple of rounds of that. So that's a big part of it. The float tanks down there, I've started to get back into that. I mean, I had a float, I think it was on Saturday, that was the best float I've ever had. It was just totally dropped in. And part of it is when I walk through the doors of that place, I just feel I'm at home. The people who work there, the men and women, they're just, just feel it. So when you go in there, just pay attention to the vibe in there. It's amazing. So that's a big part of, of what I do.

Honestly, it's conversation. And a lot of it was happening because you think about what you're digesting, like what kinds of information are we digesting? And so for me, having conversations is a part of that health plan. And I would say up until quite recently, really until when Boyd left for South Africa, we were meeting at Sun Life three or four times a week. That's where we met you. That's right. And so we would be there for two to three hours

and different people would come into the conversation. I have a Wednesday workout group, a small group of men. We work out at 1030. And then generally there's a group of guys that sticks around until 330 or four and we just get in a vibe and we're just playing. playing with ideas and maybe someone's working on a presentation. So we'll start whiteboarding for them or there's just different ways. But that right there, there's such a part of my wellness is to be in community with others and to share ideas. I mean, I really pay attention to my sleep. So I'm pretty good with getting eight hours. Sometimes I can get more than that, but that's a big thing. My hydration, like really on point. I exercise a couple of times a week. So I'm not overly into beating myself up. And even those workouts are more fun than intense. Getting outside with my shirt off,

with my bare feet in the grass, like that's important. Told you about the bare feet. You got to take those boots off, man, and get your feet in the ground. Well, once our yard's completely... It's like a war zone right now. We're doing the whole thing. I told him to buy a litter box. This is my tip if you live in the city. Buy a litter box. Go to Home Depot. Get grass with soil underneath it. Put it in the litter box. Put the litter box underneath. I love you, but if I'm stealing a litter box, I soil underneath it. Put it in the litter box. Put the litter box underneath.

I love you, but if I'm standing in a litter box, I'm over it. You're in New York. You can't ground. Put the litter box underneath your feet and take your shoes off and put your feet on the grass the whole time you're working. I'm sorry, but I'm going to invent it. And then you just, you would need like a light, right? Like some sort of light to help the photosynthesis.

It's better than not doing anything in New York City. I might go with something a little bigger than a litter box. Just because, only because you just know it's a litter box. A toddler bathtub. Something. Just put your feet on the ground. Don't give, or you know what? Shit.

Just go to the beach and fill it up with sand. Or you could do that. Yeah. And just put the litter box underneath your feet and put your feet in the sand. Or if you're standing in a litter box, maybe think, maybe I want to change my life a bit. Make sure the litter box is BPA free. Yes. Before you go, something that really attracted me to you to having you on the show and something I talk about a lot is changing my mind. I'm allowed to change my mind. In fact, if I don't change my mind from today to tomorrow to two

years to 10 years, I don't think I'm doing my job as a human. In your bio, it says you reserve the right to change your mind. Can you speak on that a little bit? Yeah, no, I'm glad you brought that up. I love that. And I think it's a departure from what we're taught. Yes. Maybe specifically as men too, that like you're fucking, you're decisive. There's a right and wrong. There's a black and white. There's all that. What I've come to understand, and it was actually the trigger for me was I was on a dose of ketamine. And it was like, I don't fucking know. Like, I don't know like anything.

I don't know why Peyton is upset. Maybe one of the things or a couple of things I did helped contribute to that. But this thing could be a thousand different things that are finally coming to the surface. It always is. Right? You know, so it's like I had this moment of clarity like, oh dude, you actually don't know.

And then again, the more work I've done, the teachers I've read, it's like being in that curiosity, introducing maybe as an idea versus yes or no. And when I started to do that, I started to learn a shitload. And then I didn't have to hold on to all those things either because I wasn't staking a claim that this was right or this was wrong. This was my experience with whatever it is. And so the idea that reserving the right to change your mind, it just opens you up to the wonder of what's going on. And now I get to hear Michael's experience of Michael wants to, you know, impose his beliefs and try to get me to, to come to his side. It's like, we don't need to play that game. Like that's, that's your shit,

not mine. I'm just here to learn about your experience because this is my experience with the thing. And maybe my experience would be different. And I'm open here to learn about your experience because this is my experience with the thing and maybe my experience will be different. And I'm open to that because right now, with all I know, with all my experience, this is how I feel about whatever it is. That is the theme of 2021. Well, it's part of the reason- I'm like, you just said, can we make that the theme?

It's part of the reason we're in- Great. The shit that we're in, right? People dig so hard. Yes. They decide, they take take a side they take a stance and they dig in and then new information comes to light but they're dug in so hard that they can't say you know what maybe I gotta switch positions or change a bit

or new information has come to light and now I'm gonna say oh you know like I believe this one thing but maybe I'm changing it a little bit now because of this people can't do that anymore it's just like they get stuck in. Because everyone wants to put everyone in a box of black or white or yes or no and sometimes it's more complex

than that. We can change our minds. How easy is that to say to we can change our minds? How good does that feel when you're actually like I kind of got that one wrong, hand up and everybody's like okay dude and if they're not then that okay, dude. And if they're not, then that's their shit.

And if they're not, like also bye, get out of my energy. What's this thing to you? You're ruining my ether. Yes. People now start to identify as left, right,

conservative, liberal. And I'm like, I don't want to be any of those things. I'm opting out. I'm not red. I'm not blue. I'm not left.

I'm not right. I'm not conservative. I'm not liberal. I'm me. And I'm trying to make the best decision with the information that comes to life. And then they say, you can't do that. And then I say, why? Yes. And that's what, that's people's brains start to spiral because they say, well, you have to pick a side. You can't no longer, you can, it's no longer okay to not pick a side. Like that's a very divisive way to think. And it's a very limiting way to think because then ultimately your decisions are being made for you.

Totally. And, and this is a whole nother podcast, but it's all by design. Those motherfuckers at the top, those, those quote unquote elites, that's what they want.

They want us choosing sides, fighting one another. They'll start with the left, right, the conservative, liberal, and then they'll go to the mask, anti-mask, the vaccine, anti-vaccine, the black, white, like all of the different ways

that we can find any kind of division between us so we can police ourselves and shame each other and all that bullshit. They dangle the canary over here so we take our eyes off them. They do. We want to have you back on.

Speaking of another podcast, you can come back anytime. There were so many ways that we could have taken this podcast. You're welcome to come back on. Khalil, I guess you can come, but you can't take over the conversation, honey. How the hell are you going to...

How are you going to do that, by the way? I'll manage it. I want to see this. We'll give it to this this. I'll work. Lauren's putting in an advantage in Khalil. We'll have a collective effort to monitor Khalil.

I think he's still crying in a corner somewhere because I said, I meant it as a compliment. The last time he was on here, we were drinking Sun Life and I'm like, man, this is the good shit. He's like, you're calling my stuff shit? But I meant it as a compliment. He he curled up in a ball. He started crying. I think he's still doing it, Khalil. Where can everyone find you? Pimp yourself out your podcast, your Instagram. You're writing a book. Tell us all the things. Okay. The podcast is The Great Unlearn. Instagram, cal.callahan. And then yeah,

I'm writing a book that it'll be coming out hopefully in February. Is it when you were on ketamine? I didn't write any of it on ketamine. I feel like you need to write one chapter on ketamine when you're on it. Okay. A supplemental chapter. Write the acknowledgments. Chapter K. The bonus chapter.

Yes. Acknowledgements with a capital K. Do the audio bonus version. Yeah. What else? Anything else that you want to pimp out before you go? Your book's coming out. I would say, honestly, just sharing once again that my wife's work for the women out there

who have young daughters that are either about to go through that change or have already. My wife's amazing. And this is such an incredible resource. It changes kids' lives. It changes mom's life because they get to have common language to talk about these things because a lot of them don't. And there's a fear for getting it wrong. And then it just gets unsaid. And then it's like, I'm bleeding and I'm ashamed. And to your point, like, this is, you, you, this is part of your biology. And so my wife does such an amazing job of, of really landing that for everyone. So yeah, check her out again. I believe it's PeytonCallahan.com unless they've changed that. I think you and your wife should come on at some, sometimes we do a him and her perspective. I think that'd be a great conversation.

Yeah, let's do a him and her. If she gets me, I don't know if she gets me. And you know what? Next time someone asks you to pimp yourself out on a podcast and you don't pimp me out, we might go to divorce.

I've been pimping you out my whole life, baby. Thank you. And then y'all, I would love for you to come on my podcast. We would love to. In fact, we should do

a him and her the same day. We should just do a switch. Perfect. We would love to have you fact, we should do a him and her the same day. We should just do a switch. Perfect. We would love to have you back on. You were amazing. Thank you so much. Check out the Unlearn podcast. Yeah, the great Unlearn.

The great Unlearn. And you're wearing merch that's super cute. Thank you, Cal. And like I said, y'all got some coming. We got the new stuff coming hopefully today. Look, I have like baby throw up on my shirt. So that's great. I need a new shirt.

It'll look great on this. Thanks, Cal. Thanks, guys. that's great. I need a new shirt. Thank you guys. Thanks, guys. That was great. Thank you guys so much for listening to that episode with Cal. We are doing so many holiday giveaways right now for so many beauty goodies. All you have to do to enter is tag a friend

on my latest Instagram at Lauren Bostic and you will be automatically entered. And of course, make sure you rate and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts. Thank you guys for listening and happy holidays.