The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Riley Keough On Love, Loss, & Continuing Lisa Marie Presley & Elvis Presley's Story & Legacy

Episode Date: December 9, 2024

#784: Join us as we sit down with Riley Keough – Emmy, Golden Globe, & Independent Spirit Award–nominated actress, & author of “FROM HERE TO THE GREAT UNKNOWN”, a heartfelt memoir about her mother, Lisa Marie Presley. Riley completed the book using tapes her mother left behind, capturing the vibrant, joyful, and authentic story of Lisa Marie's life—from her upbringing in the iconic Graceland, to being the only daughter of Elvis Presley, & all of the in between! In this episode, Riley shares her mother’s true story, opens up about navigating grief and loss,reflects on growing up in the spotlight, & speaks candidly about the complexities of life, addiction, & healing.   To connect with Riley Keough click HERE   To connect with Lauryn Bosstick click HERE   To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE   Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE   To Watch the Show click HERE   For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM   To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697)   This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential   Head to the HIM & HER Show ShopMy page HERE to find all of Michael and Lauryn’s favorite products mentioned on their latest episodes.   To purchase “From Here To The Great Unknown” by Lisa Marie Presley & Riley Keough click HERE.   This episode is sponsored by Cymbiotika Go to cymbiotika.com/theskinny and use code SKINNY to save 15% off of your subscription order.   This episode is sponsored by Dreamland Baby   Go to dreamlandbabyco.com and enter my code SKINNY at checkout to receive 20% off sitewide + free shipping.   This episode is sponsored by Nutrafol   Go to Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code SKINNYHAIRGIFT to get $10 off any order & free shipping when you subscribe!   This episode is sponsored by Aura Farms   Save on the perfect gift by visiting AuraFrames.com to get $35-off Aura’s best-selling Carver Mat frames by using promo code SKINNY at checkout.    This episode is sponsored by Good Ranchers   Subscribe to any Good Ranchers box and use my special code skinny to get a free gift of chicken breasts, ground beef, bacon, or salmon for a year plus free express shipping.   This episode is sponsored by Bloomingdale’s   Right now, when you shop Brooklinen at Bloomingdale’s online, use code SKINNY20 to get 20% off your purchase.   Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to The Skinny Confidential, him and her.

Well, I've never done anything like I've done a lot of heavy work as an actor, but never anything that's like real. When I'm acting I don't like recall my own trauma, like I don't really use my own stuff. So this was a very different experience, like, and it was very intense and very heavy and I I so honestly I was like very happy for it to be over and I was happy to be done writing it but it was really cathartic because I think that there's really something in sharing your story and just being really honest and open that helps you process what happened I first discovered you what do you think I'm going to say? I don't know. Like something weird. I was sitting at home alone. I was looking for a show to watch. This is years ago. Okay. And up pops. The girlfriend experience. Yeah. If that feels

on brand. And I was like, this is so juicy. I'm like, who is this girl? She's amazing. That's so funny. What a fun show to film. It was. It was really fun. Tell Michael what that is so he can... You're not going to have a girlfriend experience. I've heard you talk about it.

It's just about, you know, women who are escorts but offer like a full girlfriend experience, basically. I'll put it on my up next. Yeah.

I'll dive in. I could use a break too if you could find one of those. Sometimes I just need a little space. All right, I'm going to watch it. I'll watch it on the plane ride home. Riley, welcome to the show.

Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. We're so happy to have you. I have told you multiple times your book was so amazing. You and your mother's book that you both wrote together. It was so beautiful and so open and so vulnerable. And it was honestly shocking because sometimes you read celebrity memoirs and you're like, you're like, you're not telling me anything.

I'm not going to name the person that I'm talking about, but there is a very famous person that I was just reading her biography. I was so excited to read it. And the whole entire, I had to stop it halfway through was positioning herself as a hero. There was no openness about anything. It was just about how great she was, which is awesome, but we need to see a little behind the scenes. Yeah. I think that my mom was so raw and authentic and herself that the only version of an autobiography would be a version where it was kind of just everything out there and when I got the tapes um that she'd recorded she basically recorded 16 tapes of her entire life story you know because she was she was going to write her own her own book. And then she passed away.

So I got these tapes. And the honesty in the tapes, she's talking to somebody who she doesn't really know well, who she's planning on writing this book with. And her honesty in the tapes was everything that's in the book. So I kind of, if she didn't want it in the book, she wouldn't have said it in the tapes. So I think that she had always just planned on being really straightforward about difficult things like her addiction and her grief and the loss of her father.

And I was quite surprised at how open she was willing to be. How did you even go about listening, like, listening to those tapes? Was it, you had to, you mentioned off air, you had to, like, pace yourself into it. Yeah. Well, it was, like, three months after she died. So it was, or a couple months after she died that I got them. And I was putting it off because it felt very intense. I don't know.

I mean, I'm sure many people listening have lost parents. And just hearing their voice is really jarring. Like a photo is jarring sometimes if you're not expecting it. But the voice is very like visceral. And so I prepared for it. And I like put my headphones in and laid down because I knew it was going to be like emotional. And then I started it like tape one, which was her first memory and her childhood. And did she film these all like in a period of time

or was this throughout her life that she was filming? It was over the last like five years of her life. And she was, it was all being recalled actually after my brother died. So she was in grief for a lot of, like a lot of the tone of her book was through the grief of losing her son. And so I think that one,

with that said, like there's so much humor and like, and love and all of those things in the tapes as well. But I, the weird thing was, is that after a few minutes, it started to just feel like she was on the phone and there,

which was then hard to like hang up, you know, because I felt like I was just in the room or something while she was chatting with a friend or something. And then slowly,, like my, my method sort of changed and I switched into like the writer brain part of me that was like, okay, and I need to structure this and here's this story and this is great and

whatever. She writes screenplays too. Oh no, I'm aware. But how, how long through, throughout your grief process till you jumped into like, how long after it passed till you decided to like go into that?

It was pretty quick. And I think that that's because it came from a place of, like when someone passes away and you feel like there's all these loose ends that you need to tie up. That was one of them. Like this book was something she was mid-process and it just felt like this thing I needed to do. And it wasn't

like, I wasn't like, oh, I'm so excited to do this. I was more like, I don't want to do this, but I'm going, but I have to, it kind of felt like. So at the beginning, yeah, it was very much like, just felt like a task sort of. And then I started enjoying it. The book, maybe it doesn't start, but it begins with your mom being nine or seven years old, I can't remember, and seeing Elvis being carried out in front of her. And it seems like your mom had had so many intense things happen. There's like a string throughout her whole life, and it seemed like that was the thing that-

That was the age when he passed. That's how old she was she was nine she was nine when he passed which by the way side tangent like i was we were thinking about this on the show like all right now we talk about this we're like okay like fame has changed yeah now totally i was saying that's really important because in this time it there's like five people. And I was sitting here the other day. We were in the car literally yesterday. Ariel was there. And I was like, it's crazy because sometimes we'll meet people doing what we do. And I'm like, how do I not know more about it?

I got like 30 million people following or 25. And I think it's because the world now can follow so many people and we see so many. But Elvis, your grandfather, is arguably maybe one of the most famous people in the history of the world. Yeah. Right? Like, there's not people like, people like, who are you talking about?

Yeah. That had to be strange for not only you, but your family seeing that level of fame compared to now. Right. And then also Michael Jackson, too. But there's certain people that are like, I don't think that level of notoriety. It doesn exist I don't think it can exist it doesn't really it's it's kind of I mean

it yeah it's a it was definitely I think a really singular experience and that I think that maybe it exists for like Kim Kardashian. No, I don't even think that. Lauren and I went to Beijing, China one time. Yeah. That's not a comment on that. We were there. And they didn't know who, at the time, they didn't know who she was.

And there were certain people they didn't know. And there was like, you know, people knew like Ronald McDonald, Santa Claus, and Elvis. Right, right. Yeah, totally. Like Jesus or something. Yeah, Jesus.

Totally. But now, I mean, maybe you could say someone like Trump is known throughout the world, but there's very few, and he's the president of the United States, but there's very few people that I think the entire world knows about now. Right. And the crazy thing about that is he didn't even travel internationally or tour internationally because he just toured America. Isn't that wild? It's interesting seeing Elvis through your mother's eyes because to her, that was her dad. Yeah. And it was interesting how your mom sees everyone around him. And I also got to read your grandmother's book. Yeah. And your grandmother

had a very similar perspective of Elvis. It was her significant other. Yeah. It wasn't like Elvis. Yeah. So that was interesting. It wasn't like Elvis. Yeah. So that was interesting. And it seemed like through the book that your mother idolized her father as a daughter, not as a fan. Totally. Totally.

I think she would get like a kick out of the certain moments with him, like coming to her school or whatever. But she was the kind of person who like was kind of the wrong person to be born into this life like hated attention didn't want anything to do with it wasn't didn't want to be famous you know um and so I think that that but they had a really special relationship and I think that that uh he was a really loving father to her and the best father he could be. And I think that the loss of him was really like dictated her life in a sense. Do you think that maybe your mom didn't like attention because she saw what attention did to her dad? She probably just got so much of it, you know, that it was like intense I guess I think that like speaking of like the

grief in the book she kind of talks about the funeral service and like fans coming into the house and watching people fainting and getting carried away by ambulances and like the this sort of like global grief of someone that's very personal to you I think was a really strange experience for her because I think that it didn't really leave room for her to have her own personal grief and therefore I don't think she ever really processed the loss of him and it was something she kept very close to her vest and actually until this book like she never talked about the day that he died it's almost like other people took ownership over his death and so it's like she like you said she wasn't left to have the feelings that she could

have right it's interesting to me that too that she ended up um dating michael jackson dating Michael Jackson. Just mating, marrying. Marrying. Because he, he like, like, it's the same kind of thing. Yeah. It's almost like you're always attracted to one of your parents. Right.

It's like Freud. It's weird shit. But it's, like, we're just, I'm just trying to think like who, like where that response

would exist in this world. Like people would be, but it's just so, it's a crazy thing to think that the entire world is paying attention to the passing of a family member. Yeah, I know. Yeah, it is crazy. I mean, I don't know any different. It's just regular. It's regular, but I can understand that it's crazy. When you were a little girl and your mom would tell you about her dad and her mom,

how would she describe it in the same way she described it in the book? Kind of. I mean, she just would tell us stories about him. And a lot of the stories that are in the book, she would just tell us as kids, like, especially if we were in Memphis, she'd say like, this happened here and this happened here. And there was so much love there. But she wouldn't really talk about her grief very much until I was, you know, in my mid-20s. But she would talk about him often and, you know, how much she was a daddy's girl and the loss of him. Did you realize when you were, when you guys would go to Graceland and stay in the room and there was tours out, like there was like tours happening and she was in the room with her mom and brother and you have to wait in the room?

Did you realize how crazy that was at a young age or did you have no concept of it? So we didn't do that when we were little. That was more in our 20s. I thought it was when you were little. No, we were actually like, me and my brother were like probably 20 and 23. Okay. Yeah. But we would, my mom went through a phase where she wanted to stay in, at Graceland upstairs in her dad's room, which is not part of the tour. And if we didn't get out of there early enough, then we would basically be stuck there until the tours ended. So the security would kind of like bring us McDonald's or whatever. Did you understand like that like Graceland when you were

that age like did you did you understand how why there was people touring it did you understand how people were so like attached to the story of it? I don't think there was ever a point when my mom had a conversation with us. I think it was just around always. So I think that I never know how to answer this question because it was just something that was normal to us. But I was aware of the love and the fans and the whole thing. It seems like she did a good job of protecting you guys and your childhood from all of the stuff that comes along with Hollywood.

Yeah. She did. I mean, look, the 90s were really crazy for her and especially right before she married Michael and after she married Michael was really intense. Paparazzi. Paparazzi and people in our trees and a million security. People throwing their bodies at the car.

Just really chaotic. How old were you during all this? Probably when I was born until, well, probably like three until 12. It was the craziest, I would say. Yeah, I think for people that are like listening, it sounds insane. But for you, it was probably just like, this is just my childhood. You don't know because you don't know any different. No, I don't.

And I reflect on it and I know that it's unique. But at the time it was just like, this is just, you know. And now like my life is very simple so I think that definitely it had an effect on me you know I don't want that lifestyle. Do people tell you that throughout the book you seem like you're there's like a element to you that you're like the one that's in control even even as a child. Like you seem like you're organized. You seem like, in a way, like a little bit of a parental energy. I definitely felt that.

My mom was very parental and very maternal and strict and like very much our mom, like, you know, we'd never talk back. And like it was very different kind of parenting than than there is now but you know there wasn't gentle there wasn't gentle parenting though she was really loving you know she was firm and very you could be loving and yes she was you know what she was loving and firm i actually think it was very effective parenting because we all turned out pretty great like but But we have good manners. We felt really loved.

I loved my parents while at the same time, I was also scared. Scared of them. Yes, me and my husband talk about this all the time. Yeah, I don't think that's a bad thing. Yeah.

Right? Look, I wasn't scared for my safety, I will say. I was scared that my mom had a sort of Southern like mama strength where we would never like, never like, so I have friends who grew up saying,

calling their parents names and stuff like that would have never flown in my house. One time to my dad. I'll just say, I'll just say that was the first and last time I ever did it. Exactly. Yeah. That wasn't fun to see you after that.

Also, my mother was like a black belt in Tang Soo Do. So she would just, they're just like, I watched her one time break a brick with her head. Right. Never mind. It seems like that you had such a good experience with Michael Jackson. And you talked, like, it seems like he seemed like a great guy. Is that correct?

The only context in which I can talk to him about is like my actual experience as a six-year-old and in my experience as a six-year-old he was my stepfather who I was really attached to and I really cared for and um you know they were very much married and very much a sort of normal couple even that sounds I know that's you know people have a hard time conceptualizing that for or you know but uh it was very like they would stayed in the house together and would take us to school and so it was very like normal and I think at that age you're my mom had multiple partners and I did find myself being emotionally attached to almost all of them. Because it's like, I don't know.

There's like someone in your house who's caretaking. So I did feel close to him, and I did really love him. I understand that. My dad had, if he's listening, he had a lot of different mates. Right. And you do, you form like a bond with them, even if it is for six months. Yeah. Or six days.

Yes. Daddy. Yeah, I know. So I understand that. Yeah. At what point of your childhood did you let your mom know that you wanted to go into the career that you're in? And was she like, no?

Or was she supportive? Side note, is it weird for my wife to still call her dad daddy? Yeah, I call him daddy. I think it's okay. My dad's in my phone as daddy. Yeah. And you like when I call you daddy. No, but I don't want you to now.

I'm like, no. I'm like, I don't know. I think you have to choose one or the other. Papa? Papa and daddy. Big papa and big papa. Or I could call you little papa. That's the worst.

When you told your mom that you wanted to get into your career, was she like, fuck no, or was she like, let it rip? She was definitely like, fuck no, but she also wanted also like wanted to be supportive um I think that she didn't want me she had so much um like I think being the daughter or a child of a celebrity at that time was more kind of embarrassing than maybe it is now. Like I think now it's kind of everyone's does everything. And there's like, I think that she, I think that her view on like celebrity children was,

or nepotism was like very cringy. Like she was like, oh, don't just be like a celebrity kid who's out there trying to act. If you're gonna do anything, you have to be the a celebrity kid who's out there trying to act if you're gonna if you're gonna do anything you have to be the best at it and you have to be really good and better than you know then or as good as your peers and and uh so i think there there's a lot of she put a lot of pressure on us to not sort of be a dilettante, I guess, or try things and like, just to take it very seriously. Well, you know how some people will be like, oh, that's that

person's son or that's that person's daughter. I think all three of the generations, especially having Elvis as a grandfather, have done a good job of differentiating themselves. Like I look, I look at you as an actress, I look at your mom as her own, like, sort of entity, and then you look at Elvis. I think that's cool that you guys have been able

to, like, establish your own niche and do it the best. Well, it's always, like, people that come from prominent families or wealthy families, they're always going to be, from an outside perspective,

short-change in a way because no matter what accomplishments they have, either some people are going to say, well, they didn't deserve them or they were given them, or they're going to look and say, well, or they're not this person. And, you know, it's not like, I don't think people are crying tears to these people that have platforms or come from wealthy families. But it's an interesting way to go through life when you are constantly being compared to a previous generation that was well-to-do. Because it's kind of like, hey, I'm here and I'm doing really great things. I'd like some credit. But I think that comes with anything.

If we do well in life and later in our kids do things, there's always going to be the people that say, oh, well, they had this. Yeah, and you're also building a future for your children. So I don't know. I think that in our case, it was very different generation to generation because you had my mother who is Elvis's only child. So her ability to have a career and be her own person.

It, I think it was really hard for her. Um, it was like, they look like each other. They have the same last name. It was like very much, you know,

uh, and it was of that time. It was of that time. and it was kind of like, there was never really a chance for her to like have her own identity. I don't think. Whereas for me, we have a different last name um I kind of wasn't I didn't grow up as famous as she did kind of like I didn't we

were photographed all the time but it was for my mom you know what I mean like it wasn't like they were chasing I mean for the most part me and my brother around so I was able to like have an acting career before you know for for many years where it like people didn't necessarily even know my family who my family were which I felt really lucky about because I watched my mom really struggle with that and so I think in her case it was much more of a hindrance um in my case. I think that I've been luckier with that. As we head into Christmas and the new year, what better gift that you could give to people than the gift of health, which is why I'm so excited to talk about Symbiotica, one of our favorite companies, one of our favorite supplement brands. We absolutely love every single thing that this

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The comparison was more of a... public platform i think the comparison the comparison i think it was mostly like she didn't want us to fail or feel like like have the experience she had like when she you know she she she wrote records and put music out and um she was a beautiful lyricist and a beautiful poet and um it was just you know the record labels labels trying to make it more Elvis-y and wanting her to do Elvis songs and duet the whole you know so I think that and you know she would she had wonderful fans but she also would have a lot of like Elvis impersonators at her shows and so it was I think it was hard her her own career was hard for her And I think that she just didn't want us specifically to do music. Like I very early on asked for music lessons and wanted to play piano.

And I think she, her and my father both were a bit afraid of us doing music. So I think in a way, the film was a little more like, oh, that's a little less scary. How crazy would it be for her to see this book, though, that stood on its own two legs, nothing to do really with Elvis. It's you and her. Yeah. I think she would have been really blown away by it because she was actually incredibly insecure

and didn't really feel deserving. It was interesting because she was extremely strong headed and strong-willed and tough, but also really fragile and deeply insecure. So I think that she would be truly shocked that the book was a bestseller, that her story mattered,

that people were interested in her. How did that affect you when she was insecure when you were little? That's such a good question. I think about this with my own daughter. That's such a good question. I felt sad for her. I don't think it made me insecure. I think I felt a sadness um for her but it was crazy because she was

she was really insecure about her physical appearance and she was so unbelievably beautiful like one of my first memories of her was her putting on her lip liner and in the mirror and she I just remember thinking she was 28 at the time. And I remember thinking that she was the most beautiful woman in the world. Her whole life's so stunning. But in that particular era, to me, she was just beyond beautiful. And she just never saw a photo of herself she thought was pretty. I think I just felt sad. You seem so secure and confident

so it's interesting and throughout the book you feel that too like you just feel to me like you feel secure even when you're little when you're talking about yourself when you're little maybe it's like because I felt really loved I don't know I do feel

secure of course I'm human I'm human and like I feel insecure about many things but I would say for the most part I that is there is truth in that and I think that maybe I was raised by parents who were like unconditionally loving you know and what's so cool too is about how your dad and your mom were able to maintain this beautiful friendship throughout. I mean, I've barely heard that in my interviewing everyone. I've never heard that. I know.

It's really impressive. And I think that, like, that was also really dictated, like, the way I approach relationships in my life. And I would, like, my parents basically got divorced when I was six and then on and off lived together until she died, basically. He was there with her in the house. And I think they just tried to, like they were very platonic. I asked her at dinner like a few years ago when the last time they hooked up was

and she was like, it't you know it was in like 19 i don't know 98 or something like that like it was mostly just like drifted into friendship they just drifted into friendship and um they would they were awful married i think but they were great as friends and he would live in the back house when she had different husbands and boyfriends and i think it was uncomfortable for a lot of he was fine i think some of the boyfriends. And I think it was uncomfortable for a lot of, he was fine. I think some of the boyfriends had a hard time, um, but he was fine and, and we were fine. I mean, we, we were, you know, really lucky, I think. And is you, are you still like, have a great relationship with your dad today? Is he so proud of the book? He, he, he's, um, I think he has a, he's, he also grew up in a time where like our family story felt so protected.

Like it was like growing up, it was like, never put your name on anything. Don't, don't put your address anywhere. Don't talk about anything. Like it was very secretive. Um, so I think he still has a lot of that like oh it's like very unnatural to like share so much I mean outside of the obvious reasons for safety and stuff like why did the family feel

the need to be like that I don't know we were just raised that way I guess it was safety mostly that makes sense yeah safety and probably just again I think celebrity at that time was much more private in a lot of cases where now it's everyone's just shares kind of did you know you also think that like everyone was so

entitled to every single little last thing that Elvis did that that his daughter was probably like this I'm gonna go the also the stakes, right? Like you leave the house and you go to the grocery store and the photos like 50 grand or something, you know, like, like, did you ever, as a child,

do you, was it challenging to become friends with other kids? Like, did you have instances where people are like, Oh, this person's not here for the right reasons. You had to like kind of watch out for that. Definitely.

But I, I always could perceive it, you know, but there was a lot of like, is your mom home? Can we come over? From the kids or from the parents? From the kids. From the kids. I mean, which would be from the parents,

because how would they know, you know? Oh, my God. But there was a lot of like, can we see your house? Do you have a big house? Like that kind of stuff. And then as I got older, just like ridiculous questions about, you know, so,

but those kids were always very transparent. I feel like you get a nose for it too. You do. Yeah. You're like, next. Yeah, exactly.

Some kid and their dad show up in Elvis outfits. It's a dead giveaway. Yeah, right. With what happened with your brother, you seemed like you had the most amazing relationship with him. My mom committed suicide. Oh, my God.

I didn't know that. Truly, I would not wish it on anyone. Yeah. It's really... Wow. It's really obviously devastating for the person to go through, but it's really hard in the aftermath. Yeah.

How have you dealt with that and how did you talk about that you seem like you're such good friends with your brother yeah well as you know it's like the most fucked up experience it really is um and i don't know i'm only a few years out but if it's something you ever can shake because it's so intense. We had a grief, not a counselor, but what do you call him? Expert specialist on the show literally yesterday. Oh, wow. And he was basically saying it's like it never leaves.

You never shake it. It's just that you learn. You learn to live with it. So you learn to live with the pain and the trauma and the fear and the anxiety and all of the things that accompany grief. Because I think that I have a handle on it, it shifts, and the next year it's a totally different experience. But I just try and stay present in, like, the uncomfortable moments, really, is all I, all I, when it happened, I kind of had this, like, feeling that if I wasn't extremely present through the pain of the grief that I wasn't going to make it through it so I felt like I consciously was trying to feel everything I think I don't know what that did but that was my method it's overwhelming I think the suicide is so overwhelming because you start

rewinding the tape of like you know the last time you talked to them could you have said something and then the last month that you were with them could you did you see a sign yeah and then you're like well why why like why and then you start thinking about for me I start thinking about like years later or years before two years before like was there something there that was weird you start thinking about, for me, I start thinking about years later or years before, two years before, was there something there? That was weird. You start putting it together and it's kind of like a mindfuck. It is a mindfuck. In your situation, was it something that was totally shocking or was it from your perspective?

Now that I'm an adult, not at all. Right. Now, you know how you have the perspective, you can see how that could have happened? Yeah. I actually, this is really weird. Right. Now, you know how you have like the perspective, you can see how that could have happened. Yeah. I can, I actually, this is really weird. I've never said this to anyone but Michael. I actually understand it.

Okay. This is a long time ago though. So I can, I actually understand it and I feel empathy for it. And what you said about your mom, about how you said she was insecure that you weren't insecure you felt sorry for empathy yeah that's that's how i feel i will tell you that when i had a daughter it it brought it back up like yes to the surface yes and i think like you just this the same with you and it never grief sort of never ends and like for instance if you were to have a little boy and you have your daughter and you see that relationship it's kind of brings stuff up that you think is shoved down a hundred percent and like I also had a daughter and and my mom passed

away when she was five months old and so I spent have spent a lot of her life in grief so far. And it brings up a lot of like fear and, you know, like irrational fear and going, oh, God, am I going to, is this going to happen? You know, I think the fear of lose, like the loss of connection between a child and a parent is like so terrifying. Yeah. That it does bring up like, am I going to end up like that? the loss of connection between a child and a parent is like so terrifying yeah that it it does bring up like am I gonna end up like that is this gonna happen to like somewhere you know yeah it's definitely uh been an interesting time parenting it's because it's like it's like you said everything is a reflection it's like especially with what you've been through with

double I mean I can't even imagine it's like hitting with what you've been through with double I mean I can't even imagine it's like hitting you from both ends and then you also have to show up as a parent but then you're looking at yourself as the mother it's it's a mindfuck totally it's totally been a mindfuck and I think it's funny because a lot of the interviews I do everyone kind of is like well do you feel like so proud of yourself for breaking the generational trauma? Like you feel like putting me or like giving me this responsibility that I've, you know. It's a weird question. A weird question.

And also people keep saying like, how did you break your family's curse or something? And I'm like, that's so intense. But also I'm like, I definitely am a human and having like very human experiences of grief and sadness and difficult emotions. And I definitely don't feel like I've like done anything special. I just wasn't given this. I think they don't know what to say. I know.

I think that with suicide specifically, and can you imagine how long ago, this was so long, no one wanted to even touch about it word yeah it was like someone told me to lie and say my mom died of brain cancer it's crazy people did not want to touch that word so I think even now they don't know what to say to you and so what they do is to overcompensate is they'll put you on a pedestal right as you're like wow you you're alive we just did I mean this is not to say timely but we just did this episode with him yesterday

and he was saying just this he's like people just don't know how to behave or what to say or how to say it or how to respond

or even how to have totally we're just we talk about so many things as a people but like people are so uncomfortable talking about death death

it's crazy and also like you know things that are considered especially suicides like we just like we're so uncomfortable with it it are so uncomfortable talking about death it's crazy and also like you know things that are considered especially suicides like we just like and we're so uncomfortable with it's so uncomfortable and i'm like hate to break it to you like you're gonna have to confront it at some point you know yeah not not that it has to be such a violent experience but like i think also it's um i was saying to someone recently like like it's viewed as like a failure too. Like, and people are constantly like, I'm so sorry. And of course it's tragic, but like everyone's gonna die.

And so I think that the sort of like, my feelings around death have changed so drastically in the last few years losing two family members and I just feel like the conversation around dying like first of all it doesn't happen but also like I actually went to I found it so isolating what you're saying how nobody really knew what to say. And it was really uncomfortable for everybody else. And I'm like, yeah, of course it's uncomfortable for you, but it's also extremely uncomfortable for me. And not being able to talk about it isn't great. So I went and

I had to find people, I had to find podcasts and things that were, you know, that made me feel a little bit less alone in that experience. And through that, I found out that there's something called a death doula, which is basically like a birth doula, but for, you know, people who are dying. And so I went and like trained to become a death doula. And so I was like, how can I like help people be less uncomfortable talking about, you know. That's amazing. I've never heard of that. Well, it's just like, again, like,

we were just talking, this is a universal thing that everybody is going to experience at some point, whether it's to a loved one or to a friend or to yourself.

Nobody's escaping it. Specifically with suicide or drug addiction, death. Sorry, I wasn't saying suicide. No, I know. No, we kind of went like, totally off course. They just don't even know what to say. Yeah, I wasn't saying suicide. No, I know. No, we kind of went like totally off course. They just don't even know

what to say. Yeah, I think that suicide is really specific because people are really afraid of it and it feels really

violent and like, I don't know, people just are really, really, really scared. There's a taboo. Didn't he say yesterday?

Oh, we were with David Kessler yesterday. He's my grief therapist oh my god oh my god that's amazing that's who I went with

yesterday yeah awesome he's amazing so I found him I found him and he was the only person I could find and I called him

and I was like can you please come help my family and he I bet he was there he drove over from wherever he lives and he was like

I can be there tomorrow like I was like please mop us up off the floor and he really helped some people you meet like that and we do a lot of these shows obviously and such you meet some people like that you're like that is like a good person yeah like just like a good the best the most amazing thing was so i found him because i searched in podcasts like uh what did i search grief uh like what i don't know i don't know

what i searched but his name came up and i showed it to my husband i was like find him like i don't know how because we were this was days after your husband like dog the bounty hunter yeah really literally and uh i i uh we were in such a state of shock. This was right after my brother passed. It was, I couldn't, I literally couldn't lift my body off the, like, I would just lay on the ground in the summer and I couldn't get out of bed. And my parents were just like destroyed. And so he reached him and I was so surprised that he was so like responsive. Like he wrote back in like a few hours and then

he was like I'll come over and so he came over and he did his there at grief therapy and talked to us and when he left I was like how do I pay you and he was like I don't charge that's I'm saying that I was like what I came in yesterday we spent a lot of time with him on and off camera. Yeah. And like you just, some people you meet like that, like person is a certain people like that. Yeah. The book that helped me with my mom's death the most was You Can Heal Your Life by Louise Hay.

Oh, wow. I'm talking to him yesterday and I'm like, your energy reminds me of Louise Hay. Yeah. She's dead now. Yeah. He's like, Lauren, I wrote a book with her. That's amazing. He ran down to his car.

I've read every single book by this woman. For some reason, the one that he wrote has never been served to me. Wow. He brought me the book. It's called You Can Heal Your Heart, and it's all about death. So now I have to read that one. Those are my two books that I would recommend for anyone dealing with grief. The book, You Can Heal Your Life is amazing, but he does have that energy of Louise Hay. It's a really pure energy. And the fact that he deals with grief on a day-to-day

basis and helps so many people is really incredible. Yeah. And your mother was still alive when your brother passed. Yeah. My mother and David were very close um she kind of came over all the time and did like they would do grief groups together for other parents and she wanted to do a podcast with him like they were very close um and he helped her immensely wait did you realize that that was the guy when you found him on the podcast for grief the guy that your mom did stuff with no i found him oh you found him on the podcast for grief the guy that your mom did stuff

with no i found him oh you found him and then your mother and then my mother connected with him got it got it and uh he just was at our he basically was at our house every day for a few months and really helped my family through like the worst part of of the grief and so what was your relationship like with your mother when all that was going on? Were you... We were all living together in her house. Me, my dad, my mom, my sisters, and some of my friends would stay over. And it was during COVID.

So it was really isolating. What an uplifting time. I know. So it was pretty gnarly. And the thing is, is that he would come over, but really all he would do, not all he would do, was talk to us about my brother. And be there and sort of just witness the grief. And so it's not like he was doing some magic spell. You want to tell all the friends, that's all you really need.

Just be present in the other person's pain, you know? But he was remarkably helpful and is a truly wonderful person. You say in your book, you said that when that happened with your brother, one of your immediate thoughts was about your mom. You thought, like you knew. How did you know that? I think that she and him had a really special relationship.

Yeah. So there was that. Only son. Only son. She has two twin sisters, two little sisters. Yeah. Only son,

and he was like her favorite, you know, to be, you know, straightforward. Not, out of me and him. Well, it probably was like reminded her of her dad. I'm sure, you know straightforward not out of me and out of me and him well it probably was like reminded her of her dad i i'm sure you know and they looked really similar yeah they did he looked a lot like her father and they had a really incredible bond and she also like wouldn't watch movies where parents lost children like couldn't handle like even conceptualizing a parent losing a child

and she it was like her worst nightmare she would talk about it she had a friend friends who lost children and she was like I I wouldn't make it I would not make it I would die you know and she would say it all the time so I I kind of just knew. I knew that she wouldn't make it. So how did you show up for your mom then? How were you even strong enough to show up for your mother knowing that and also just losing your brother? So the amazing thing that happened, or the unexpected thing that happened actually,

was when my brother died I was like I we were all grieving differently of course but I needed help like from them and I was really not doing well and so our dynamic changed a bit like my parents kind of were being the sort of responsible ones handling the funeral service and all of that. And I was like, I can't get out of bed. And so I was in a different role than I normally was, which was not what I would have anticipated. But they were actually taking care of me through that because it was really hard on me. But that was probably really really hard on me. But that was probably really nice.

It was, it was. And so I think that, yeah, they both kind of stepped up, you know, in this beautiful way together as like a non-married couple. And, you know, obviously they were devastated, but I think in that moment, they were taking care of me more than I was taking care of them. Such a cute gift that my mother-in-law got me. She got me this like last Christmas. And I think it's so efficient and amazing.

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it's it's been really nice to have that did you hear that you're taking an angel and how has it been being a mother balancing everything you're balancing the book how do you how do you juggle all these balls and do it effectively um a lot of work it's a lot of work it's a lot of work and i i do work a lot you know like i i like working so i'm i'm really busy i work more than my husband. He has been amazing in that he's not a stay-at-home dad. He works, but he's like, he's traveled everywhere with me. So I, you know, so yeah, so he's kind of holds it down a bit and lets, allows me to, to work, which is amazing. And we, I don't know, we just make it work. It's really hard really hard so at this point do you like writing more do you like acting more

do you like what do you I mean now that you've done I feel like she's an octopus well you've had success obviously as an author and as a writer what do you find

your kind of like sweet spot now or is it just kind of they're just different like I love performing as an actor a lot I love writing

it's a very like isolated experience whereas acting is like very, you know, more social, I guess. I guess you're doing with a team. You're like with, you're around people and directing is also very fun.

I really enjoy all of those things. Writing a book was really different and hard. I don't know if that's something that I would, you know, do again. Only if I could. writing a book was really different and hard. I don't know if that's something that I would do again. Only if I could. Why did you do it? Like what was the, like in the beginning when you- It's like she had to close the gap for her mom.

Because my mom, okay, she literally started writing a book. Okay. And she, in the middle of that, my brother died. And she was like, I don't want to write this book anymore. I don't care about this book. I only care about writing about grief and your brother.

And I was like, well, you have to write this book because you're in the middle of it. So it needs to be finished. And had you read any of it? I hadn't. I had read the proposal and like a few things um and but not really i was kind of actually staying out of out of it um and then she in december the descent like a month before she died came to me and with she called me with

her manager and she was like i don't want to write this book. I know I have to finish it. I don't want to talk about myself. Like, I think she was feeling very like, why am I writing a book about myself? And I kind of was like, I think the problem is you are expecting this to feel like, like, uh, a salacious celebrity. Like you're, you're expecting this to be like, like a like another like star magazine kind of a thing. And I was like, and it needs to be something really elegant and beautiful about your life. And she was like, well, can you do it?

And I was like, sure. Yeah, I'll help you for sure. And then she died. And so I felt like I had to. That makes sense. Yeah. And when you read it, there's different fonts.

So you can see her writing. You can see who's writing and who's... And actually the audio book's really cool because you can hear Julia Roberts is my mom and then I'm me. And then you also, there's intros to each chapter that is my mom. Why did Julia Roberts do it?

Just like, did you? I don't know. I just asked her and she said yes. Do you have a relationship with her? No. You didn't? I didn't. I just sent it to her and she like responded to the book and she said yes.

But she was the only person like the publisher. Not that she's not amazing. I was just like, oh, is this like someone that you were close with? No, I never met her in my life. She just... There was a list they sent of actors who could read my mom's part. And she was the only person that I felt had this sort of strength in her voice that felt right to me. And so she was the first person we asked and she said she would do it.

And I was just like totally blown away what has surprised you the most after this came out and it's become such a huge hit what are some things that have surprised you about it um well I mean it surprised me that it was like a best seller because I wasn't you didn't think it was gonna I I like to be like I don't know it. You didn't think it was going to... I like to be like... I don't know. I was trying to be cautiously optimistic, but I didn't know. See, that's my problem

because every time I release one, I'm like, this is going to be a huge hit. And then when it's not, I'm the opposite. I'm like, this is going to be the one. But I think there's something to that.

Every time, I'm like, this is the best thing. I think that the positivity holistically is probably better. It's a lot though. When we're out to dinner and he's looking at the mirror behind me instead of me, it's a lot. I get to go through life constantly disappointed as opposed to pleasantly surprised.

I think that's my method is I'm always undersell in my mind. So it surprised you that it was a bestseller? Kind of. Yeah, I did. And I think also the response that people had, the very human response people had, because I think a lot of the time my family has been interacted with in a way that feels not very human. And I think that how much people were relating surprised me.

Are there things that irk you or bother you that people say about you and your family to this day that they're just like oh that's just like so off base oh that's a good question um i think that it's just not really because i kind of grew up hearing all kinds of things all the time and most of it was totally off base so it just kind of felt silly but recently I think like the idea with this book that like I keep getting asked like I said about like a curse that like a family curse or something and I just find that so annoying because I'm like it's it's like very human experiences like everyone I know has

somebody who's like suffered from addiction or lost a parent or lost a sibling or well this is this is like what i you know to observe all this like we were saying the other day if if you were just anybody else with the with different grandparents or different parents that's a person who has like i was giving the example yesterday we had somebody that's got a very well-known prominent platform and, and they talked about how they sleep with their children. And it was like somebody machine gun firing publications. Like, oh, my God. And I'm like, if anybody else in the world said they slept with their kid, they'd be like, okay.

No one would think about it. Nobody cares. Because it was this person. It was literally like news article after news article. I'm like, does anyone really give a shit? Yeah, exactly. Everyone's commenting on it, their opinion. I'm like, oh, my God.

Yeah, yeah. of a shit yeah exactly commenting on it their opinion i'm like yeah my god yeah yeah so i think that that like the the dehumanizing i guess a little bit where it's like can can bother me sometimes but you know what i also don't care yes because it's like exposure therapy you've done you've put yourself out there so many times it's like doesn't it's like i'm good i've done it so many times i'm over it yeah i think I think that the truth is there's not much that bothers me in terms of press stuff. I don't really...

It doesn't really affect me. Well, the press people are going to hate me saying this, but it's not really even relevant anymore. Like, I think when people say,

like, oh, look at it, you got featured in this, I'm like, nobody cares. It's also in this time... It's probably not going to get me any more stories. I was going to write about the fucking podcast. But every time I say, I'm like, nobody cares. I mean, it's probably not going to get me any more stories. I was going to write about the fucking podcast.

But every time I see them, I'm like, great, maybe they'll like, give me a boost. I would make the argument that a lot of these old publications,

they need these kind of things more than we need them. I mean, it's not like the old days when you pick up an Us Weekly or a People and nobody's paying attention anymore. Yeah,

I know. And then that's the other thing is things just sort of come and go and I just like, don't care. People are like, you need press. And I'm like, why? They're like, well, because you need it.

And I go, why? They're like, because it's important to have them talk about it. But I'm like, nobody is paying attention to them. But I will say, I pay attention to podcasts. But that's different. That's what I'm saying. Oh, you're going to put yourself in a different category? Of course.

I always do but the public the point is is like I think that kind of like salacious clicky let's pick apart like I think

totally I think people don't care anymore no no like everybody's got flaws everybody's got a human condition totally like nobody

which is great I think it's the downfall of people that are hanging people want substance now they want to know who the person is what they have to say yeah

it makes sense though why everyone's damning you in a humanized a human way like it's like the the book did that it made it made your story like approachable i think that's that's to rephrase it like what i'm most proud of is that it's like there's a sort of like mythology of my family and i think that the risk the DMs, I'll read my DMs and people will say things during the book tour. And it's very like, I also experienced grief or I also experienced addiction. It's not like, oh, Elvis and Lisa or whatever,

you know, it's very human stuff. And I think my mom, like, that's why she wanted to write a book really. About grief. About grief and addiction and her struggles and just her life as a human being and wanting to connect with other people. Well, I think what people would,

they see someone who has that kind of platform and comes from the background she comes from and they're like, oh, these people are human and they struggle with the same human things that we are. And I think it's relatable, right? Where it's like, oh, everybody has problems everybody has struggles what's cool about about all of it is that it sounds like your mom wanted to focus on grief and you the book did that it didn't make it like you said about elvis yeah lisa marie it's like the the book helped people yeah that's crazy yeah like that's so full circle yeah okay everyone needs to go

check out the book what are you working on where can they get the book tell us all the things I'm sure you already follow Riley I love following her you can get the book like anywhere you get books um the audio book and I'm not just saying this is really beautiful like I think that it's on Audible and I really recommend it just because you get it's a totally different experience I recommend both

but I really enjoy the audiobook what am I working on like you know I'm just finished filming a movie I'm still an actor when you go and you do something

that heavy do you have to like go into something a little lighter after or can you keep going on the heavy subjects well I've never done anything like I've done a lot of heavy work as an actor but never anything that's like real like when I'm what do you mean like my real life like when I'm when I'm who's acting when I'm acting I don't like recall my own trauma like I don't really use my own stuff so this was a very different experience like and it was very intense and very heavy and and I so honestly I was like very happy for it to be over and I was happy to be done writing it but it was really cathartic

because I think that there's really something in like sharing your story and just being really honest and open that helps you process what happened it's cathartic and amazing is there anything I forgot to ask you this that you wish you included in the book that you didn't anything I wish I included in the book anything like is there anything that you were like I wish I included that or do you feel like you got it all out? I think there was a lot of things that felt like

my experience that I didn't put in the book because it was my mom's book. And so there were moments where I was like, I want to really

share this thing, but that's for another time and place and maybe for my memoir when I'm 80. Maybe you and your daughter. Exactly.

That's a good idea. We'll write a memoir together. That's a really good idea. And she can do the same thing that you guys did. Don't you think it's strange when people write a memoir when they're 35 and they're still going? That's why I didn't write my memoir. I just focused on her. Because there's some people that are like, this is my memoir.

And I'm like, dude, you're 35 years old. Like you gotta keep going. I know. And that's another thing on this press tour. People keep asking like, when's your memoir? I'm like,

hopefully not soon. I feel like we gotta mix the questions up with the press. I know. Like in my memoir, Lauren, I think about this.

We gotta get creative. I agree. In my memoir, I would like, because I fantasize. When are you gonna write a memoir? I'll tell you. But this would be like, we would be like 20% into the story In my memoir, I would like, because I fantasize, I'm like, one day I'll have it. When are you going to write a memoir? I'll tell you. But this would be like,

we would be like 20% into the story in my memoir at this point. Okay. We'd be like, if the book was a thousand pages, this is like page 200. That's my hope.

Okay. So that I got like 800 more to go. Wow. And I'd be like, there was this one old time when I used to talk on this microphone to people. But it would be like a blip on the thing.

Because I got a lot of shit I gotta keep doing. I can't wait for that chapter. Maybe I'll do the commentary. That would be cute. Let's see how long you make it in the memoir. Hopefully you can get past the 20%. Are you in the memoir? I think I'm on every page.

I can't get away from the memoir. I'm on every fucking page since I was born. You guys have been together for a the memoir. I'm on every fucking page since I was born. You guys have been together for a long time. I was thinking about this as you were talking. Let's just make it about me for a second. Please. I'm enjoying this.

I was thinking about this as you were talking. I was like, well, you got to listen to your mother talking in these tapes. And then I was like, holy shit. Our kids could potentially like listen to it all sorts of weird shit they will yeah that's kind of

creepy they will they'll listen to every single thing like if my mom had hosted a podcast I would definitely be listening to

everything there's like 800 things they can hear me so be careful I'm gonna delete all the sex ones before I go

before they're like yeah able to hopefully my son or my daughter like as I'm like they can like help me finish my memoir too yeah

if you're listening to this son in 20 it's not about your memoir in your 2060 you better you better help me but you know what you reminded me like

something that was so special was having all these hours of my parent telling their whole life story it's amazing and I'm like everyone should do that you know how bad

I wish I had that? You are so lucky. Everyone should just like take their parent and give them a day and be like, okay, let's start from the beginning.

You know what we've thought about doing? It's hard to get some of them to focus. I know. I'm like, dad. You know what we've thought about doing?

Daddy. But I think... Daddy. Little papa. Daddy. Big papa daddy. We've thought about doing this and I want to do this

but anyone can do this because podcast equipment these days or just even recording equipment is not that expensive. I've thought about with Laurence sitting each of our parents down and doing what we do but not releasing it. You absolutely should. And actually conducting an interview with them

about their life and going through it. You don't have to release it. To have it. Most people that lose a parent have the voicemail. about their life and going through it, you don't have to release it. But I think like, everyone could do that with their parents. I mean, most people like that lose a parent have the voicemail. Yeah, I know. The fact that you have all those tapes,

I'm sure it's like, it's also, there's different dynamics to it. You also feel a lot, but it's amazing that you have that forever. Yeah. But if you think about it, like people can just buy equipment

and sit down with their parent and like record and ask them things about their life. I think it's like a good thing to do. It's a great thing to do. I, for some reason, feel a documentary. Do you think a documentary is going to happen? I would be open to it because I'm a movie person. So that's more my, I don't know, exciting.

I mean, I love books, but I think that the idea of a documentary like would would excite me it's not something I necessarily would want to like direct because it's so personal but I think that I would be open to it when I read it I'm telling you I was like oh my gosh the phones are gonna start ringing no they're already ringing Michael she's Oprah's book club pick number one national bestseller as well as a New York Times bestseller. Go buy the book from here to the great unknown. Riley, thank you for letting me stalk you on Instagram to come on the show. I also stalked you through other people. I was like, she needs to come on.

Please, please, please. So thank you for taking the time. Thank you for all of the health recommendations. And I'm pretty sure I found colostrum through you. So thank you for that which kind i from the tit or from at the skincare is it cowboy colostrum did you post that armora or i don't know you posted one that my daughter's been on and she has not been sick in eight months you know i don't get sick anymore either oh we gotta end it about you okay

thank you for coming on the show thank you for having me thank you riley thank you