The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Sarah Nicole Landry AKA The Birds Papaya On How To Overcome Insecurities & Turn Them Into Strengths, Defining True Beauty, & Overcoming Adversity

Episode Date: May 20, 2021

#358: On today's episode we are joined by Sarah Nicole Landry. Sarah is the founder and creator behind the wildly popular brand The Birds Papaya. On today's episode we discuss how to overcome our insecurities and turn them into strengths. We also discuss how to overcome adversity, and what true beauty really looks like.  To connect with Sarah Nicole Landry click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential  The Hot Mess Ice Roller is here to help you contour, tighten, and de-puff your facial skin and It's paired alongside the Ice Queen Facial Oil which is packed with anti-oxidants that penetrates quickly to help hydrate, firm, and reduce the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles, leaving skin soft and supple. To check them out visit www.shopskinnyconfidential.com now.  This episode is brought to you by RITUAL Forget everything you thought you knew about vitamins. Ritual is the brand that’s reinventing the experience with 9 essential nutrients women lack the most. If you’re ready to invest in your health, do what I did and go to www.ritual.com/skinny  Your future self will thank you for taking Ritual: Consider it your ‘Lifelong-Health-401k’. Why put anything but clean ingredients (backed by real science) in your body? This episode is brought to you by Coors Pure Things are hard right now. But, to be honest, living a healthy life has always been hard. When it starts to get overwhelming, grab a Coors Pure. Coors Pure is an organic beer that is aggressive about balance and meets people where they are with enthusiastic positivity. It’s organic, but chill about it. Visit www.coorspure.com to see where you can find Coors Pure. Celebrate Responsibly. Coors Brewing Company, Albany, Georgia.  This episode is brought to you by Versed. Versed is the non-toxic, cruelty-free, and vegan skincare brand that’s hyper-focused on bringing you real results at prices your bank account appreciates. Their products are made with proven ingredients at skin-changing levels, without the fussy packaging and conventional markups. You only pay for what matters—the goop inside the bottle Get 10% off for first time users when you shop at versedskin.com with promo code SKINNY Produced by Dear Media 

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. It's thick. It's silicone. You can place your thumbprint in the perfect place so you can really press hard and get that lymphatic drainage. It's also so cute. I'm telling you, it's way bigger than those other ice rollers that break. And it's also, of course, pink. We launched it with an anti-inflammatory icy ice queen facial oil to tighten and soothe and cool the skin. They're really the perfect duo if you run puffy like me. And we are offering all Skinny Confidential, him and her listeners, a code. Use PINKICEQUEEN for 15% off. This is redeemable for the ice roller and the oil separately, not the duo. That is 15% off all regular items, PINKICEQUEEN. That's shopskinnyconfidential.com. You are going to be

so snatched, my God. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her. When I talk, I always kind of want to remind people like I'm not somebody that's beyond any of this. Like I'm still in it. Being postpartum has been such a reminder of that because you can do as much work on yourself and your healing as possible. Life will kick you in the ass and remind you to fight again. And that's basically like if we're talking arenas, I'm in the arena right now and I'm fighting through it.

Welcome back to the Skinny Confidential Him and Her podcast. Today, we have a fun podcast swap. We have a swap with Sarah from Birds of Papaya. I went on her podcast. She came on ours. I kicked Michael off this episode because I wanted to have some fun with her and really pick her brain on all the girly things. I love that we did this swap

because she's also on Dear Media. She is a part of your network, which is very exciting. And she's someone who I think has a really unique perspective on social media. Well, and she's also, you know, her story is also really incredible. And I think this episode really highlights, you know, how she built the platform that she did, which at this point is massive. She's really put in the work and she's really put in the time and she's really built a community

that, you know, really resonates with her message. And I love when people take a platform from nothing and turn it into something. And she's done that and more. I have massive respect for her. Just to give you a little background, if you're unfamiliar, I'm sure you guys follow her on Instagram at the birds of papaya, but Sarah Nicole Landry, AKA at the birds of papaya, is a divorced and remarried mom of four. Newborns to teens. So crazy. She loves cultivating powerful social media conversations around life and our experiences

in it. Sarah is a body confidence activist, speaker, writer, four times cover girl, and a weekly podcast host. Like I said, that is on Dear Media. Recent notable career achievements include she has won the 2020 Iris Awards Instagrammer of the Year and Today's Parents' Most Influential Parents. Sarah describes herself as someone who has approximately 22,000 unanswered emails, a baby on the boob, and she loves eating peanut butter straight from the jar. She's our kind of

girl. Anyways, I want to give a warm welcome to blogger, podcaster, content creator, the birds of papaya, Sarah Nicole Landry. This is The Skinny Confidential, him and her. I am so excited to have Sarah on the podcast today. I wish that we could be in person, but we can't. But when you come to LA, we have to do it in person. I was just on your podcast, which you guys have to go listen to. It is a Dear Media podcast, which is exciting. Michael's chest just puffed up. I think that what I want to do with this podcast is I want to really start from the beginning. And I want to go

back to when you were a little girl and go back to your childhood. I know you've been very open about your disordered eating and I want to go back and I want you to tell me the first time that you remember even being aware of it. You know, what's so interesting is that I was always the one that didn't have the problem in my family. When I grew up, it's actually very, it can be very genetic. It can be, you know, very environmental. There can be all these things, nothing in life, same with similar to addiction, same with food. They often have like root issues and causes. And so mine didn't come until a lot later in life and from an entirely different cause, but I watched both my mom and sister struggle. My sister was

a pretty extreme. She had anorexia and bulimia for quite some time and she is recovered now, but I watched and witnessed it for a decade, feeling helpless on the sidelines and feeling like that would never happen to me because I was, you know, such a witness to it happening to somebody else. So extremely. So when I, when it did happen for me and we can kind of get into how it did, I was shocked because I thought that because I had been witness to it, there was no possible chance that I would be victim to it. And that was just not the case at all because it looked very, very different for me. And it was very subtle and it was almost like, it was like micro little tiny things. That's why I never say that I had an eating disorder because I never got diagnosed because to me it was never a problem until it was a problem. And then I immediately started

going into more of a healing mode and, and working my way through that afterwards. And I don't think that healing exists in something like this. I think our relationship with food is, and our relationship with ourself is similar to any other relationship that we build with anybody. And it can go into toxic traits very subtly and very quietly. And then suddenly you're in a toxic relationship and we see them. And we, we talk about red flags when we talk about being in relationships with other people, we never talk about them when we're having them with ourselves. What are our own red flags and our own toxic traits? What are the toxic traits that you saw when you were little as a mother?

I would like to know, is it like pushing food around the plate? Is it talking badly about yourself? What are the toxic traits that you saw your mother and sister do that you can look back on? And if you could get as detailed as possible, that would be amazing. Yeah. I want to share without having to share too much of their story, but I'll share from like my own perspective. And I honestly don't think it came from my household, to be honest. I think it came from environment and people around me. I was, I was a chubbier girl growing up. I was always the biggest one in my class. This was very normal for me. I heavily relied on my personality to get me through. And so I just very much had morality. I felt like

my body was how it was because I was morally not good with food. I definitely had this narrative that there was good food and there was bad food and that I was morally one or the other based on what I ate. Instead of looking at things, what I've learned more is some are more nutrient dense and some are less nutrient dense. Obviously you will feel better on certain foods. You will feel better eating certain things, but we can't actually put morality to foods because then we're actually saying that some people who don't have access to those types of foods or, you know, are struggling with those types of foods or morally less of a person. And I really kind of had to detach myself from that. I don't know where that came from, but I know that all of us have digested it at some point.

We all hear it. Like there's the good food, the bad food, we cheat on it. We, we literally instill toxic relationships with food right from the get-go. And, and it's almost like, you can't even look at, you know, my sister or my mother or my grandmother, you have to, it goes back so far that we don't even have it traced. It's gone. It's, it's just really, really deeply in, in us. It's, it's ingrained in us. And it's a lot of, for me, when I look back at what was the cause, it was because I thought that if I looked a certain way, that I would be more accepted. And if I behaved a certain way, then I was a better person and I was morally good. Therefore, I would find more acceptance in the world. I would feel better about myself. I would be able to do more in this world. And the exact opposite came true because

once you go down a road of trying to please other people by what you look like, by how you, you know, control yourself and, you know, have those conversations with yourself daily, it just is a trickle effect of you're constantly going after, how can I please everybody else in the world? And then you just get increasingly anxious about how you look. My depression and anxiety around my body after losing a hundred pounds was extreme. I went from thinking, if you lose weight, then you're happy. That's what the before and after pictures are for.

That's what we see on the internet. Like that's, that's what it was. That's who I was. I was literally doing that. It was on the cover of magazines being the transformation girl and suddenly had to face the fact that I was not happy after losing weight. So if I wasn't happy after losing weight, what was the root cause here? What was the thing going on? Why am I so anxious around food? Why am I so anxious about my body that I'm not intimate with my husband? I'm wearing t-shirts in the bedroom. I'm walking backwards out of rooms. There's genetic dispositions for my body that I can't

control. And I feel less of a human being and I feel less worthy of showing up and existing in making memories with my kids in having intimate moments with my husband. These things that, you know, damage us in the much bigger picture because at the end of the day, I had to start seeing myself as more than just a body to be controlled. I want to really tell your story. Why did you decide that you wanted to lose weight and did you set a goal of 100 pounds? Like what had you had your kids like really walk us through that story before you lost a hundred pounds. I'd like to know your why and your reason for that. So when I was a teenager, I was, like I said, I was always the biggest girl in my class. It was the biggest one of my friends

and I have seemed okay with that. I was still a pretty popular kid. I tried to be as funny as possible so that everyone liked me. And I was a bit of a people pleaser. So that was easy enough. I got along with people really well. High school was something I look fondly back on. And I, you know, had my high school boyfriend and we broke up and two weeks later, I rebounded with somebody that I was engaged to nine months later and married at 19. So that was the start of that. And by, I immediately gained weight because I had less access to a lot of different food options. I was very poor. We only had one income. I was working as a receptionist and my husband at the time was in university as an athlete. And we, we were struggling financially. And then I was pregnant at 20. So by 21, I had my first daughter. I got

pregnant at 22 again. And at 23 had my second daughter at 24, I was pregnant again. And at 25, I had my son. Did you always want children? Yeah, I always wanted children, but I never liked babysitting, which was a little scary to go into having kids. But I think at 19, I was like, wow, I really had this, I want to play house type of thing going on for me. So when all of this happened, I'd always, I'd already been kind of this bigger girl. And then I went through triple postpartum back to back. My body changed so much. I was the only person that I knew that had an episiotomy at birth, which is like cutting to get the baby out. I was the only person that I knew that had stretch marks that happened, you know, by genetics. I put, I put

every cream on that I possibly could. Didn't stop it. They went all the way up to my ribs and they were painful. I would cry when they came in and they are genetic. People have, they went all the way up to my ribs and they were painful. I would cry when they came in. And they are genetic. People have asked, they are genetic. Like if you have stretch marks, it's a genetic thing. I think that's, every doctor has told us that. It's, it's every plastic surgeon has told us there's, it's not something you can control. It's genetic or it's not. So it's not like not taking care of your skin. No, it's just genetic. Before we get into that, let's talk about ritual. Ritual vitamins have been on my radar and your radar for a while. I've been talking about them for like a year.

Here's the deal. I had a really bad experience postpartum. I was very depressed and anxious. And one of the tools in my toolkit was ritual postnatal. So they just launched this vitamin for mother's postpartum. And it's so fitting because it's formulated with iron and iodine, which are the key nutrients that help support lactation. So it really helped me when it came to breastfeeding. It's obviously vegan-friendly, non-GMO, sugar-free, free of major allergens and formulated without artificial colors or preservatives. And this was important in my toolbox. You know, when I was pregnant, there was so much to do, right? There's all this list of tools that you can use when you're

pregnant. Ritual also has an essential prenatal. I took that. But then in postpartum, there wasn't a lot for the mother. It was more focused on the baby. So I was really, really grateful that Ritual launched their newest member. It's the essential postnatal, and it's for the arrival of mother's new nutrient needs postpartum. Of course, we have a code for you. A mother doesn't always put her needs first, but Ritual does. And that's why they're offering all Skinny Confidential, him and her listeners, 10% off during your first three months. So if you are pregnant or you're in postpartum, you're going to visit Ritual.com slash Skinny to start essential postnatal today. Enjoy. Yeah, again, but you come into these like, wow, this is, what did I do wrong? Why am I the person that took a year to recover from birth? I've got all

these stretch marks. I just, and I'd never seen anybody else kind of look like that. So I kind of gave up on who I was. Like at that point, I'm exhausted. I'm raising three kids. My body is like, what can I do to just hide it and not care about it? And I was sneaking food. I was definitely had some, I just had a weird relationship with food and we didn't have a lot of money. So it was like hard to even be like, how do you eat healthier when you can't even afford the stuff that's on the rim of the store? You're going to like the cheapest stuff possible. I remember even buying once buying chicken ribs because it was the cheapest type of chicken. I don't know if you've ever had chicken ribs, but it's like impossible to eat. It is. I just remember so much of that. And then,

you know, I came through all of that. I was living far away from home and came back to my hometown. And I remember the first time I went out in public and I was just mortified to be in public. Cause I was like, this last time I was here, I didn't look like this. And now I look like this and I have to run into people from high school and I can't run into people from high school looking like this. And then I remember I went to a baby shower and somebody took the photo from that baby shower and they uploaded it on Facebook. And this would be the story that became the headline in all the newspapers and magazines and daily mail after this was, you know, woman

sees herself on social media and decides to lose a hundred pounds because essentially I looked at this photo of myself and I hated it so much. I cried so hard and I had zero control over that. And I just, I just thought, you know, this is the worst I've ever looked and I need to do something about it. And this is where it kind of intersects in an awkward way, I guess, because I don't necessarily regret my weight loss journey. And I, and I also understand that it's what led to my disordered eating because I was, I think I had a form of disordered eating before because I was

sneaking food. I was struggling and had no good relationship with it. And then I lost weight and had the exact same thing, but just on the other, like the pendulum kind of swung an opposite direction. Wait, explain that meaning like you were eating, but then the other way it was like you were, you're not eating. You're not eating. Okay. Yeah. So it was, it was hard for me to identify because when you're gaining weight, people are really quiet. Nobody really says anything. You might get like hate online these days, but it's a very quiet process. You just kind of get used to that never being a thing.

Meaning like nobody's coming up to you and be like, well, like you've gained like X pounds or X weight. Like they don't do that. But if you lose weight aggressively, people comment and say like, what's going on with you? What's wrong with you? Right? Is that?

No, they're saying you look great. Oh yeah, compliment you. So it perpetuates the eating disorder because when you're constantly complimented, you want to go in this. I've heard this from many women. You want to get thinner and thinner and it becomes addicting. You become addicted to the praise. And listen here for the, for the few men that listen to this show, I'm going to stumble

for all of us men on this episode. He has no attachment to food. I've never seen anything like it. I just want to, I want to make sure that I'm digesting this and hearing it the right way. Cause in my mind, I heard that a different way. I heard it. People were saying you're losing too much weight. That's unhealthy, but you're saying you'll be, you will be us. Okay. So it's like, you're getting this positive reinforcement. That's actually maybe a little bit of an unhealthy reinforcement. Yes. Okay. And, and it's a dip. It's addictive, especially because this is now how I started to grow a social media following. I had been blogging for so long and I, and I was just chasing it. I was just chasing what would get me into like kind of this, this place. And I used

to go to the dollar store and buy crafts. And I was trying to be a craft blogger and a home decorator. I tried everything. And I was just constantly like, you're trying to get invited to the parties. I never considered for a moment that you could create your own party. I never considered that I could be the one to start, to start it and, you know, build my own community. You created your own party. You did create your own party. The party is at papayas. It's a big fucking party. It's a party. Big party. Yeah. So I was, I was chasing being invited to the parties. I wanted to be a part of everything. So when I started losing weight, it was like, suddenly the floodgates were open

and I was invited to everything. It was just like, wow, your transformation. I, people were resharing my photos because weight loss transformations are so easy to be reshared by so many pages. I was getting so much attention by the media, by my, you know, Instagram following all of this stuff. And then it kind of all, at some point, even when you're carrying on your very own facade and it's your very own life, at some point it will hit its breaking point. And mine came when I then was going through a divorce and it was a very, not sudden, it was a slow build, but a quick, a quick step. And I moved in with my parents at 30 with three kids in tow and my world was collapsing. And then I began to lose weight from stress,

which was new. And the fact that I was working two jobs, so I was exhausted. I was raising three kids, living at my parents' house, working two jobs. Of course I dropped even more weight. Can I ask when you first started to lose weight, were you doing it in a way that you look back on that was healthy? Like for instance, are you blending green smoothies and eating salads and getting protein in? Or immediately was it like, I'm just going to restrict myself and not eat and I'm going to eat like three grapes a day in a Skittle? Or was it like a slow build into the eating disorder? This is the problem with when you seek something like weight loss and you don't have financial access to proper information and guidance because I basically downloaded an app that told me to eat about a thousand calories a

day. And who was I to question that? Who was I to know any differently? And I began to just restrict, restrict, restrict. And that's what a toddler should be like. that's a very, very small, it's not even enough to fuel you. So eventually you kind of go into this like malnourishment, but, and, and that ended up having its whole other, I ended up having major medical issues basically from eating so little. And when you're not, you, I had no guidance. There was nothing. It just mattered how many calories there were. So it didn't matter if it was marshmallow fluff or if it was a salad, it didn't matter what it was. It just had to be the calorie count. And so I was, I had no idea what I was doing for any of it. I had no fitness guidance. I was just doing anything that I could and injuring myself along the way, all of these things that were because I didn't

have access to proper information. You know, this, it was kind of just through downloading an app and letting it, you know, calculate my days for me. I always get nervous when I share this information. Cause I'm like, who's gonna, who's gonna hear that and be like, that's a sounds okay. That's what I'll do. I'll just eat marshmallow fluff for a thousand calories a day. But for real, like that's, that was just my story. But when I, when I went through the divorce, I remember dropping this additional weight and I got down really small. I couldn't even fit into a size zero.

I was very, very thin. And people were like, you have never looked better. And this is the thing. Nobody knew I was going through divorce. I was quiet. So you now know that you're in the worst possible circumstance of your life. You're emotionally traumatized.

You're going through hell. And people just look at you and say, oh my God, you've never looked better. And that's when I woke the fuck up. So when people say you never look better, are people also saying, what are you doing? I want to do it. Or is it just, you've never looked. So what are you saying when you're asked that question? Are you just saying, I'm stressed? You're not talking about the divorce. Are you just saying when you're asked that question? Are you just saying, I'm stressed? You're not talking about the divorce. Are you just saying that you're counting calories? What do you respond to these people that are asking this?

Yeah. Are you kidding me? This was bold for me. This means that I had more transformation to show. Once you're in that track, you have to constantly perform. So I just had more content to show up with. I had more before and afters to, you know, posts and more that it looked like I was doing. It looked like I was, and I would talk about it and I've

left up all the posts for a purpose because it, I talked this talk, like I was living the healthiest life and that this was like the perfect self-love journey. It was pure hate towards my body. I would look in the mirror, I'd work out in the mirror and I'd say, if that jiggled, that's what I had to like do less of or, you know, do more of. Like I was obsessed. I was obsessed with what I looked like at the same time of feeling like I never hated myself more. So it was just, I was never going to be enough.

And at the same time being told that I've never looked better. It was, it was a cycle that I honestly didn't know how to get out of. Let me ask you this because I always try to... And I know we've gone back to your childhood a little bit, but do you remember anything from childhood that basically put you in a mindset where you started being extremely conscious of what other people thought about the way you look? Was there something that happened early on or at school or at home with the family where you're like, it became present in your most forward part of your conscious to be like, I have to worry about what other people think about how I look. I'm just, have you ever thought about that?

No, but I do remember, I do remember people comment, I had developed really young. So I was grade six. Everybody liked me. I was like that it girl. And when I went through more puberty and, you know, my genetic disposition began to like strike in and I was curvier than ever. I was actually, you know, five, eight when I was in the seventh grade and I was curvy, I had huge boobs and I just, you know, I didn't know how to like carry that and deal with that. But that's the first point that I can remember being validated over and over for my body. Listen, I met Lauren. I tell the story like when she came in, she was 13.

I was like 12 and she was fully developed. And I'll just remember like none of the other girls were developed. And as a young man, you're like, what's going on here? Right. And I imagine like you start getting that attention. You're like popping a boner thinking about it. Well, you start getting that attention right from people. And then maybe everybody else kind of evens out.

And it's like, if you were the person getting all the attention, and then you're kind of like in a sea of everybody else getting attention, like maybe that's part of it. I don't know. So yeah, who knows, right? You mentioned that when everyone started saying how great you looked when you were at your lowest point, that kind of woke you up. Was there anything else that you can pinpoint that you look back on

that was sort of an epiphany for you to start getting help? And if so, what was that and how did you go about finding the help and the resources? Quick break to talk about Versed, okay? So Versed is the cleanest drugstore skincare brand out there. They're vegan, they're sustainably minded, and they're hyper-focused on bringing you real results. I am a big fan of this brand and bringing it on the Skinny Confidential because it's affordable to everyone and they have a very simple mission, which is to make good skin and clean products for all. I'm about this. I am a huge fan of their lip oil. I use it all the time. It's pink. It's so nice under lipstick.

You know how when you wear lipstick and your lips crack, you need a good lip oil. That's the trick, okay? So what I do, this is so random, I'll brush my lips with a toothbrush, like a five-cent one from the drugstore, and then I'll put the lip oil on, and then I'll put the lipstick on top of it, and it just gives you these nice, luscious lips, okay? I also wear the lip oil without lipstick. I just carry it in my bag. It's great. Recently, and this is so on brand, they launched a dermaplaner, okay. So it's their first tool. And I've shaved my face since I can remember. I heard about it in Housewives. I think Caroline from New Jersey was talking about shaving her face. I became obsessed with it. And I always shave my face like all the time since then because

I think my makeup goes on more glowy. I also have no random hair on my face. It's great for exfoliating and it's just an incredible thing to have in your skincare toolbox. And I think it's so underrated and people aren't talking about it enough. So for $19.99, you can get the reusable handle and two blades. They also have a blade refill, three packs sold separately. It's mint green. We love a mint green. And this is going to be better than your cheap little face razor that you're buying on Amazon, okay? It's super effective. This one uses the sterile single edge stainless steel blade. And it's something that I have in my makeup bag. I use it to get rid of my mustache hair, my hair on my face, whatever. They're giving you guys 10% off for first-time users when you

shop at versedskin.com with promo code SKINNY. That's 10% off, including your new mint derma planer with promo code SKINNY, available at versedskin.com. That's spelled V-E-R-S-E-D-S-K-I-N.com with promo code skinny. Happy shaving. If I cry through this, I apologize. I actually feel like I might be composed. My daughter, one day I thought I was hiding everything from them. And I'd always said, like, I'm not, I'm not sharing with my kids about my weight loss. I'm keeping it really private, all of these things. And then I remember my middle daughter, Gemma, who's like the sassiest little thing. She loves, she'll judge you for your lipstick. Like she'll judge you for literally anything.

And she just one day looked at me and she's like, well, people only like you because you lost weight. And she said it in such a way that I was like, what? And she was like, think about it. Why else does anybody like you? They just like you because you're skinny now. And I was like, just so floored. And then heartbroken, like heartbroken. And then I watched her when she started to hit puberty. And then people started to comment on her body. And I was like, I can't save you from this environment. I can't save you when I'm part of it. I'm, I'm the, I'm part of this system. I'm part of like this narrative. I've been trying to protect you from thinking that your body is your everything while simultaneously controlling and restricting and obsessing over what I look like to the point that

we'd be 45 minutes late to go anywhere because I would have trashed the entire closet at a size zero because I felt nothing looked good on me. It was an obsession and they caught on. And when she said that, I realized, what am I doing? Is this actually what I want my purpose to be? Is this actually what I want people to know me for that? I lost weight once that I'm skinny. Now is this who I am? Like there's actually so much more to me than this. And I can't believe that I'm continuing this narrative myself, because this is what I'm posting on social media. I had to change and I had to kind of let everything slow down completely. I lost, I didn't lose my following, but I definitely think it's completely turned over now. One day I actually went back to some

of my old content. I saw who liked it and who still follows me. And it's not a lot of them. It's a definite turn of narratives. And I had to let that happen. I had to kind of get out of that cycle of trying to make everybody else happy and start looking at what is actually going to make me happy. And I need to heal from feeling like I'm never going to be enough. What is the first post that you put up that made the pendulum swing? It actually wasn't even my post. I had slowly started to share a little bit about my body because of mostly because when I had first lost weight, everyone wants to know, like, do you have loose skin? So I was showing them a little bit

that, you know, after losing a hundred pounds, I had this loose skin in my stomach, but I was showing it such a, such a slightly curated way. Like I was always angled a little bit. My stomach was as far away from it. It was very like, just so small. And I remember one time I was wearing this underwear set and the CEO of the company slid into my DMS. And she was like, we would like you to come and shoot this campaign for our underwear line. Like I saw that you wear it and love it. And I was like, absolutely not. Because at this point I'm still face tuning all my shit. Like everything is so curated the way I pose, the way I show up, There's no way in hell that I'm doing this. And I was still maybe a size two or size four at this point.

I was very small still. And she was like, we're not doing the shoot without you. And I was like, okay. And because I'm a people pleaser, I was like, I guess I'm going. So I drove to Toronto and showed up at the shoot and I felt like crap about myself. I was so terrified. I got like a double spray tan, just anything I could to make myself look thinner and, um, get to the shoot. And I remember just holding onto my robe, like just so tight, like I was just mortified. And then I saw the photographer and the photographer

was about a foot shorter than me, which if you know, anytime you're doing body angles, you got to go as high up as possible. You do not go low. And so she comes in at this low angle. They asked me to take my belly button ring out and they shot like in this upward motion of my stomach in this underwear. And I felt sick. I felt like that day was so beautiful in and of itself. But when I saw that first photo, I felt sick to my stomach because I was like, no, this is everything I've been trying to avoid. This is everything I've tried to protect myself from anybody seeing. And suddenly it's out there and they posted it. But then I read the comments and this is where my whole world cracked open because every comment there was, there was not one that was like, this is where my whole world cracked open because every comment there

was, there was not one that was like, this is disgusting. They were like, Oh my gosh, I've never seen my body reflected before. I had no idea that other women had stretch marks like me. I didn't know that this postpartum body existed on anybody but myself. And at the same time I'm reading this, I'm going, wait, what? There's other people that have this too. Like I'm not, I'm not alone. And so I think a lot of times when people consume my content, they think, oh, she must really feel good about her body enough that she's okay to show up in it and show it all the time.

That's not my reality. I feel very neutral towards my body, which is an amazing goal to have to, to feel that neutrality. Most of the time, sometimes it's good. Sometimes it's bad. Most times it's neutral. I show up because I understand what it's like to be that person to constantly chase being accepted in the world because you've never seen anything else to now want to show up and show that like someone like me exists and that there's other bodies like this.

And that beauty is like so multifaceted that attraction is so variable. And that the moment I kind of dropped that, you know, that t-shirt in the bedroom, that facade that I was carrying, I don't feel anxious going out anymore. I don't feel anxious if like, I'm like three months postpartum. So it's been really triggering lately, but like my husband the other night, like came up and I was like curled up on my side and he came up and like put his arm, like, and his hand, like right on my stomach. And I was like, like, this is hard. But then I was like, you know what? I deserve to be hugged. And like, I had to kind of remind myself and go back into that. When I talk, I, I, I always kind of want to remind people, like, I had to kind of remind myself and go back into that. When I talk, I, I, I always kind

of want to remind people, like, I'm not somebody that's beyond any of this. Like I'm still in it. Being postpartum has been such a reminder of that because you can do as much work on yourself and your healing as possible. Life will kick you in the ass and remind you to fight again. And that's basically like, if we're talking arenas, I'm in the arena right now and I'm fighting through it. With your content, did you automatically start sharing more or was it something that was like sort of a tumbleweed effect? And like you just kept opening up, kept opening up, because I think a lot of people want to be more vulnerable on social media, but they don't know how to start. For sure. I think it's, I think it's a bit of a practice. A lot of it came through therapy too. My, my therapist had said to me that I was a sponge. Essentially I didn't have my own opinions. I had the opinions of other people

that I just allowed to be my own. And so she started challenging me with, you know, writing down journaling, like sharing things about my life that I had opinions on. What did, what did everything make me think and feel? So I went from being the person that would take a picture and kind of Google like a good inspirational quote to put along with it. And suddenly my captions were more priority. It was more of my experiences through life. It was, you know, how I was feeling these, these genuine opinions. And then what photo do you kind of put with that? And so a lot of it kind of was coming through this relationship stuck with my body. And so it was the sort of slow trickle into it, but I will say this, that there is a saying that

once you tell a secret, it loses its power. And that's how I felt with this, that because I was able to show up in a way that was vulnerable, that I don't feel like everybody has to do, but at least can digest sometimes, or even do it for themselves. The moment that I would show up that way, it was like, nobody could have anything on me anymore. It was like, my secret was told. You've seen my stomach. You've seen me gain weight. You've seen me lose weight. You've seen me do change all of these things. This has no power over me anymore. I might struggle. I might slip up sometimes the secrets out. So the power has kind of been released. I've been released from that hold, I guess is maybe the best way that I can kind of put it.

Let me ask you another question. And it's like kind of a multifaceted question, but I think whenever anyone or anything breaks the status quo, it becomes polarizing. Like whenever some people see something that steps outside of the norm, there is extreme positives, extreme negative reactions, right? And I'm sure you've dealt with that, right? Do you ever feel pressure from, you know, let's call it body positivity or people in the health space or people, you know, fitness space, whatever. Do you ever feel pressure to like, kind of, I don't want to say toe the line, but to appease each party while also still speaking your truth, because you are somebody that's obviously stepped outside and broken the status quo. And I'm sure with that, you've heard everything under the sun.

Yeah, that's actually a really good way of looking at it. It's difficult because in the efforts of having my own opinion, I don't like to be polarizing about anything. You can be like, I really believe that you can be working towards being neutral around your body and still going and getting Botox. You can still be, I think when we, I think, or even like going and getting plastic surgery, should it be something that is so isolating that that must mean that you don't love yourself. We can't assume everybody's decisions for everything. And it's also very,

very exclusionary to, to think that way. If we can be inclusive around, you know, the trans community and their transformations, but then ostracize women for making decisions around their body or enhancements or changes, then we're missing something. So I have a lot of empathy around everyone kind of making their own choices. Like I just believe so much in body autonomy and that like I put on makeup. I had a hard time for a little while because people would criticize that I was all about self-love, but at the same time would do my makeup and hair or get hair extensions. And this is my conclusion. Every single person has different ways of love. We cannot take love and plaster it on everybody else. We also assume love to be a feeling. And what if we removed that expectation? You guys have been in a relationship for a long time. You know,

you don't wake up with fucking butterflies in your stomach every day. What? What? Lauren doesn't? Lauren, she doesn't? You better wake up with butterflies in a hard-on every fucking morning. But I guess what I'm saying is like, okay, in your world, like if, you know, because you've been, you know, so forthright about positivity and being body neutral, loving it, whatever it is. And then if you talk about something like Botox or changing something, do you get flack from that now from the community? And I guess the reason I'm asking is because I think as soon as like, and this is my problem with kind of like the state of the world, as soon as you plant a flag somewhere, as soon as you fall outside of what the general opinion is of where that flag was initially planted, you get flack. And I think

that's happening in every kind of arena in the world right now. Which is exhausting. And we talk about this also with feminism. It's like, you have all these people who are so into feminism

and promoting feminism. But what I've witnessed that if you don't fit in what that box is, then, like what you said, you get ostracized. And it's... Is that how you say it? I don't want

to get torn apart. Yeah. No, it's like you do, you do, you get, you get, if it's not the box that, that is nice with a bow, the way people like it, then, then you get in trouble. What I've found for me that works is ignore, like ignoring, just keep keeping on my path and ignoring, I'm not going to please everyone, but I can imagine that, that you putting yourself out there like this, that there's people that, that constantly have something to say. Well, let me, let me give you an example. And this is like, and this is kind of what I'm getting towards, you know, you could work towards loving yourself, but if, if you're doing that and say me, and I talked, I'll use my dad. If I go to my dad and he was drinking a lot of Diet Pepsi and I was like, dad, regardless of

anyhow you look, I don't care about that. But just for your overall health, you can't do that. But if that falls out of being positive and just accepting yourself, how do you deal with that? Because there's a conversation of saying, yes, you should have that first part, but also you have to take care of yourself. Does that make sense? You know a fun fact about me, Michael Bostic? What, Lauren? I love beer.

Who doesn't? I mean, I really love beer, though. It was like my drink of choice for a while. And then I realized that the beers on the market had too many calories, which is why I'm so excited for Coors Pure Organic. You guys, Coors Pure Organic is a refreshingly simple beer with organic barley, organic hops and water. But here's why I'm obsessed. Okay. Was drinking one the other night and realized it's 92 calories with zero sugar. Well, listen, Lauren, you get people like you talking about living this healthy lifestyle all the time, and it's a lot of pressure. Trust me, being on the

receiving end of it all the time. And sometimes I just want to enjoy a nice beer. And with Coors Pure, I feel like I can be healthy while also enjoying a cold one and without the pressure of feeling like I got to live up to this standard that's just unattainable for me. Your abs are looking tight, and that's because I switched all the beer in our fridge out to Coors Pure Organic. Right now, maybe some of us are still inside a lot. So to have an organic beer with zero sugar and only 92 calories that's crisp, it's organic. You can work out and then you can pop a beer on the couch. I am about that. Coors Pure is the perfect beer to celebrate the winds of everyday life. So when you want to enjoy a beer without the guilt, reach for Coors Pure.

It's organic, but chill about it. Go to CoorsPure.com. That's C-O-O-R-S-P-U-R-E.com to see where you can find Coors Pure. Celebrate responsibly at Coors Brewing Company, Albany, Georgia. Cheers. Yeah. And I think that there is, and this is where it gets so tricky. There's nuances to everything and people really want everything to be so singular and so one way. And I've struggled with that because I couldn't explain. I, you know, I haven't done injectables for a few years now, especially with being pregnant in this pandemic.

But when I did, I really loved it and I owned it. And the larger my audience got and the more people would say things, it made me question my own decision-making and same with like even exercising people would be like, Oh, I thought you weren't about losing weight. And I'm like, who said that working out was about that? Like, this is actually about my mental health. Like I think because everyone has different relationships with their own self, it's hard for them to kind of place that or understand it from a different perspective or for somebody else in and of themselves.

And now it's come into this really weird arena of, because I have a platform, you're held to a different standard and that I've lost my human. Like, this is the thing. Anytime that we create things like this and at any time you start to hide your decisions, you've created more shame that you've just broken out of. And this is, I'm not saying that I've won this battle at all. This is where I struggle so, so much because I will privately have conversations with people about things that I'm scared to publicly talk about. And that to me says that there's a shame cycle happening again in my life. And how can I deal with that? Oh, please talk about that. Well, that's the conundrum, right? It's like you build, you build what you've built, right? And all of a sudden you get held to a standard where you

maybe in some cases can't be yourself. So it's like, what, but you've built, right? And all of a sudden you get held to a standard where you maybe in some cases can't be yourself. So it's like, but you've built the platform being yourself. So that's the difficulty. I think people expect people to stay the way they are at all times, that we evolve, we change, our ideas change. People can point things out, especially on this show with me personally, like I may think something and then all of a sudden somebody comes on and they change my mind. I'm like, it's okay to change your mind. You can change your, you, you, we have to be able to change our mind and we have to be able to evolve and we have to be able to change. And I think that's the journey of social media is you're following along with that journey and seeing the evolution. And, and there is this standard that you do have to do everything

perfectly at all times. And that's just not realistic. I would love for you to talk more about what you said, how you say things behind closed doors, and then you feel like you can't say it online because you're going to be shamed. It's constant, right? It's, it's everything from, you know, dealing with my posts. It took me a little while. Even I ended up with doing it in the middle of public speaking. And somebody asked me how I was doing with my body postpartum. And I've been somebody who's constantly showing up being like positive about my body. And I literally broke down in tears. And I felt like I couldn't admit that I was really struggling again.

I was having these thoughts again. I was, I was not feeling like myself for the first time in a really long time. And I think that that brought me back down to this human level, but I'll be, I'll be real honest. I'm terrified of cancel culture. I don't, I think everybody is at this point, everybody's going back in like all of their histories of everything. And I think that's why I've tried to leave everything up. Like if I'm going to be wrong, let me be wrong. And, and it's also these boxes, we even mentioned the words body positivity, body positivity was a movement that was like

actually designed and started by, you know, those in larger bodies and marginalized bodies. I'm still a relatively thin woman that can shop wherever I want to shop. I still only have to buy one plane ticket. The world is still designed for me. So the body positive movement, a lot of people were really angry when my face started getting plastered to it because it's not a movement meant for me when I can still shop in stores and do everything I'm meant to do. So I've really struggled finding my place without people

putting me in that place. If that makes sense. Like I, I don't know how to create there's, everyone wants to have these boxes. Like, what are you? Are you this? Are you that? Are you fitness? Are you weight loss? Are you body positivity? What are you? And they want to put you in this place. And I'm like, I'm just a human being. And I'm just trying to figure it out. Like, I'm just trying to go through life and figure out how can I show up in joy? How can I show up for my kids? How can I experience life again, without being constantly anxious about what everybody thinks? Because Michael, to your point, the pendulum swings and then it has to settle in the middle. So I went from people pleasing to controlling my body to, you know, people pleasing again

to control my body, but in a totally different way, or just going against what I love for a bit there. I felt like, am I not allowed to get my hair done? Am I not allowed to do my makeup? And then I realized these were things that were part of my own journey with self-love because, you know, like I said, love isn't all about just like showing up in butterflies every day, having butterflies in your stomach, it's actions. It's like what you do for yourself. And in order to do those things, you have to pay attention to what makes you feel

loved. And for me, I love that one-on-one time with myself. This is why I love skincare. Cause there's something about just like that intentionality, that self-touch that, you know, let's talk about masturbation the same way. All of these things are like ways of self-love. And then we just chalk it up to, do you look in the mirror and like what you see? But my relationship is so much more complex than that. That's like just a tiny facet of who we are and what love can be like. And I'm telling you like 0.01% of the time, is it the, oh my God, I fucking love what I look like. The rest of the time, it's like, I'm showing up for myself. I'm just doing actionable things to feel loved. And it's really hard when other people interject what their self-love would be for

themselves onto you versus the whole thing. If I was having a happy hour with you, I would say, I think that everyone just needs to understand that every single human being is multifaceted and we're all different. And there's a lot. Human beings are very complex. Robert Greene always says this. You look at someone and it's more complex than what you're seeing. And I think with what you're doing, I feel like if I was telling you as a friend, I would say you don't have to justify why you're

getting your hair done. You don't have to justify. I don't justify why I get hundreds of facials a week. That's what I like to do. It works for me. That's important to me. That's what I like to do. And if it's bothering someone on the Internet, I would and we talked about this on your podcast. I would inquire you to look at yourself about why that bothers you people you know people are scared of cancel culture because of tribalism because they're scared of being canceled but and this is going to sound strange but if you really don't care at all about being canceled because it's this thing where it takes the power away yeah so like for example i'll give you the idea that somebody could cancel me on the internet is laughable to

me and let me let me say why there are people that could stop listening there are people that could stop paying attention there are people that could stop working with me there are people that could stop advertising but the but you cannot cancel somebody. These are human beings. There's thoughts. Like, I think we have to move away from this idea of like, that we actually can cancel someone. You can change someone's income. You can change someone's platform. You can do, but the reason cancel culture is so flawed is it's not like people disappear or their thoughts go away. What's so much more powerful is being able to open up dialogue so you can kind of understand why somebody comes to the conclusions and thoughts that they come to, right? We're doing this thing right now in society as a

whole where we don't like the way something rubs us or the way something sounds or the way someone behaves. And what we do is we sweep it under the rug and say, they got to go away. We're not paying attention. They're canceled. But that didn't, they didn't solve the issue. It didn't make them go away. It didn't, it didn't stop whatever thought process they were having. It actually creates a situation where it makes it worse because then that person is now pigeonholed in their thought even more because they're like, wait, now I'm being attacked. I think I'm personally so resistant to cancel culture because I don't think it helps anybody. I don't think it helps the person learn. It doesn't help the person evolve. It doesn't help society figure anything out. And so we have

to get away from this idea that we can cancel someone because we really can't. A micro level of someone who I would have liked to have seen have redemption and watch her journey is like Stassi Schroeder on Vanderpump Rules. I think that they missed a huge opportunity to show her growth and her evolution as a person and what she went through. And I think in turn, it would have helped educate and provide resource to a lot of people who are ignorant in certain areas. Or if you just take the current state of the world, and even if you put this to politics, the reason I don't like cancel culture so much and I have such a vehement reaction to it and why I'm always so resistant to it and saying like,

fuck you. I don't care is because I think it makes everything worse. It doesn't actually bring the world to a better place. Like if I can't come to equal footing with someone and figure out why they think a certain way and maybe meet them in the middle or come to a different conclusion, or maybe they come to my, and have a dialogue and a conversation that all we do is as a people. And we're all we do is as a people, and we're all people sharing this earth, let's get further and further and further apart and create more and more opportunity for conflict. It's shooting our own self as a society and as a human race in the foot by not addressing and being like, Hey, let's figure some shit out.

As opposed to just saying like, I don't like you. I don't like what you said. Go away. Does that make sense? Yeah. I think it's, I think it's so important that you said that too, because I, I'm one of those people that I've worked really hard to follow people that I even don't align with their messaging or I don't align with everything they're saying or their lifestyles, because I think this is what's happened with social media is we've created a bubble for ourselves. We're just like, this is what I like. This is what I, when I actually looked back on myself, when I was going through a lot of like inner work healing, I was looking at my newsfeed and I was like, no wonder I feel so fucked up about myself because literally everybody I follow looks like a version of me. Like they all have somewhat of a opinion. They

all kind of look like me. I was following a gross amount of, you know, size six blonde woman. Like it was, it was everywhere. But in my head, I was like, well, this is what's bringing value to me, but it wasn't, it was teaching me how to dress. And that was like one part of value, everything else. Like I had nobody who was challenging my thinking. I had nobody who was like, you know, sometimes you need to get into, you know, why do people have faith? Why do people have certain opinions? And unless you come into conversation with those who are combating that you often can't even find your own why. So actually following people of such diverse opinions of bodies of lifestyles of everything has changed me as a human being because it's allowed me to see and experience people from

a totally different side. And also I'm, I need that hope in the world. I need to know that people can change. And this is, I agree with you, cancel culture shouldn't exist. I believe in accountability. I believe in, you know, calling people in when you need to. But if you went and looked back at my social media five years ago versus who I am now, I am not the same person. And we need to hold hope for people to change. We need to be a society that allows change and that allows people to fuck up sometimes or make decisions for themselves. When I was, when I was initially, you know, doing a lot of things and, you know, looking at face altering stuff and whatnot, it came from a really dark place.

And then there were times I was like, oh, I just do this because I like it. And I can tell you that both of those experiences, even though they came to the same conclusion answer were very different experiences. So you can't look at somebody's life decisions or certain things they're doing. Somebody might be on a treadmill because they just need to like burn off some steam. And some people are on the treadmill because they're terrified of somebody seeing them naked. Like these are the differences and like the nuances that happen with everything and why I just am like, we need to be listening to other people's stories. We need to be understanding that we are different.

We need to be, I don't know, like less afraid of everything. And I say this while being like the most anxiety ridden person ever. Like I wake up every day and I'm like terrified to open social media, but I don't know why that is because I just genuinely have such a willingness to be wrong. If I'm wrong about something, this is just such a fantastic opportunity to learn something. And I, and I see it that way, but I'm still terrified. I'm still terrified of letting people down. I'm terrified of letting myself down. And I think this is, you know, Lauren and I were talking on my podcast about boundaries. I'm really bad with boundaries. I've really suffered through, you know, wanting again to create this community and to, to do this whole thing. And then also, you know, if we're talking about the party, the party concept, again, I built this party and I've invited a lot of people and I don't really know when to let them like close the door. You know

what I mean? So it's kind of like, I have really allowed the pendulum to swing against me in a bad way sometimes where I feel like I have to, I could say to my girlfriends privately, oh my God, I really want to get this done. Or I can like make entertaining conversations about my body in a funny way. But I feel like I couldn't do that on social media because it might create a backlash

and I don't have the mental capacity media because it might, it might create a backlash and I don't have the mental capacity for it. And that makes me sad because I want to be as genuine as possible all the time. And that shouldn't be different from one place to another. Well, here's the thing that I, you know, you have children obviously a little bit older than ours. So you've, you've dealt with way more in terms of the parenting realm than we have, but think about some of the lessons we're teaching our children as it pertains to kind of like this being scared to talk, cancel culture. It's like you're either teaching them one to run away from their problems if they don't like something, right? Because the world can be an ugly place. And I personally want my daughter

to be able to stand up for herself and say, hey, I didn't like that. Or like tell someone to hurt their feelings. Especially as a woman. Yes. Or you're teaching them the other side, which is, hey, somebody messed up and now it's time to all gang up in a group and attack that person. And so Especially as a woman. and bully someone into submission. And it's going to be at the detriment of future generations, right? We just had Sophia from, she was previously with Call Her Daddy, and now she has her own podcast, Sophia with an F. And the amount of sick mob mentality bullying

that she endured is disgusting. I'm embarrassed as a creator that I didn't step up and defend her. It is so gross. Like after hearing her story, no one deserves getting 40,000 comments of saying, you know, you're greedy, you're disgusting, you're you're kill yourself, whatever it is like that. I think that creators need to be more outspoken about bullying online. Like it is this, this she's,

she's 23 years old and like she was just ripped and dragged. I think she's a little older, 28, but 28 and no one kind of stood up for her. And I started looking at myself being like, wow, like I'm a mother of a girl. I should have like got on the podcast and said something about that.

This is going to be a fucked up controversial statement, but I think we're raising a generation of cowards and bullies. And I really believe that with cancel culture. And I, and it's, and I'm going to say it till I'm blue in the face and people are going to get so angry about it. But to me, we have to hold space, like you said, for people to recover, for people to heal, for people to change, for people to own and be accountable to their mistakes, but also still be accepted in society. You can't just, you know, attack and ruin people's lives. You know, there's accountability and there's bullying, right? And those are two different things. And also, we have to open up room for conversation because this is going to play out and something really

bad is going to happen to individuals. Yeah, it takes conversations like this. I think these conversations are important. And I do too. And I think that we, we hold a lot of power in where we put our time and where we put our money. You don't have to cancel anybody. You can merely just stop putting your time and money into them. If you like, it's, it's very, very simple. Right. And so this is what happens is I watched what happened with Sophia. I will admit, I even had private conversations with friends. Like, what do you think happened? What do you think this, like we, we dive in on these things and we forget the human side of it. I just found what was so interesting with that is these two were this dynamic duo. And the second the split happened, it's almost like every breakup. Well, I never

really liked her. Well, I really didn't like how she did that. All of a sudden it's like, you find out all of these opinions that people actually privately held about you. That's what I think is like, so disgusting is that we just suddenly, oh, we have this like pack. Once one person says a negative thing, we're like, yeah, that too. And this is what I've seen time and time again. And why I think I've gotten more anxious is because sometimes you'll post something and somebody will have like an opinion against it, which is totally valid and fine. I think everyone has the right to be validated in their own opinions, but the pack on,

it's the response to that. Like, yes, me too. I also can't stand that. Like you came into my room and my space to tell me about, like, it's like almost like walking into somebody's house and being like, oh, I really don't like the art on the wall. And then everybody else is like, oh, I also don't like the art on the wall.

And you're like, well, this is actually my space. Like, this is my home. Like you don't have to spend your time and money here. You're welcome to leave, but I'm creating this warm environment for you. I'm sharing with you who I am. And that is not perfect. Like we have to allow, we have to allow flawed humans. And we're, it's so, it's so back and forth. I could talk about this forever. And it's so confusing because we really haven't come to that place yet. We haven't allowed women's bodies to show up flawed. And then if they show up flawed, they're not allowed to show up as anything else. Like it's just, and that's what I've kind of had to come away from in the last year is I went from talking about my body so much in weight loss to talking

so much about my body in, you know, trying to find self-acceptance that finally I was like, I need to not be talking about my body anymore. Like not anymore, but like, this can't be all of me. This can't be what it is. And this is where the blessing of it. And right during that whole time, that's when I found out I was pregnant and I was like terrified. And then also like, thank goodness, there is something that I no longer can, you know, go down this one path forever. I now can, you know, go back into a different form of work. And now I'm really speaking, I ended up getting to speak a lot more into, you know, maternal mental health and, you know, I'm divorced, I'm remarried. There's

all of that going on. I'm redecorating a house. There's, there's just so much more to a person than what they look like. And I, and I like to show up and show my body to try and remind people that they're not alone in theirs, but also to remind them to get the fuck out the door and live your life. Like the whole purpose isn't just sit in the mirror all day, because that's what robbed me of all my experiences with my children. That's what robbed me of all of these, you know, opportunities because I didn't feel like I was worthy of all of these things. And I fucked up a ton along the way of figuring that out. And I, you need people to allow you to be that way and to make those mistakes and to, you know, human, I'm so jealous of people who can just like show up and just be whoever the fuck they are and have that like acceptance from their community. And I've really, I've really kind of, I've got to figure that out again. I will be honest. Like it's still

just one of those things that I think I'm so empathetic towards people's experiences that sometimes it can cause me to be quiet about my own. I think it's like, also, if there is a responsibility for creators, it's making sure that over time you're not creating your own echo chamber, right? Yeah. And not because you're intentionally trying to do it, but like you said, you start talking about one thing, then you change into something else. And it's constantly evolving to make sure that your community that you have is not this big echo chamber of people just like rah, rah, rah, agreeing. It's okay sometimes to step outside and be like, hey, what do you guys think about this?

Or maybe we should do this a different way or look at something in a different angle. And I think that is a responsibility that people with the platform have. But other than that, you got to be yourself. What do you do if someone comes into your space and says something that is not constructive? And when I say not constructive, I'm all about constructive criticism. But when it's not constructive, get the fuck out. Oh, I get petty as fuck when people aren't constructive. I love a good hater comment. I actually had one. I was like seven months pregnant and I was wearing a romper and my nipples were the size of Texas. And I was wearing this

romper and my nipples were showing. And this person responded to my stories and was like, Jesus effing Christ, you fucking whore put away your nipples. So then I spent about an hour copying and pasting my nipples all over my entire outfit. So I could make it a post and be like, I just like to go so far petty that like it's hilarious content. And it's by far one of my best posts that I've ever done. I do it. I actually gets really fun for me when things are not constructive, when there's no use for it. Sometimes it reminds me of why I do it. I actually gets really fun for me when things are not constructive, when there's no use for it. Sometimes it reminds me of why I do it. And sometimes it just gives me an opportunity to be really fun and really petty to be on. Somebody got mad at me for putting too much sugar in my

lemonade last week. So I'm like, I literally was like, well, fuck now I have to make lemonade for like five weeks straight because this is the level of petty I am. I will have to keep doing it over and over again because it's funny. No, here's what you should do. Get a, get a glass of lemonade, get the whole fucking bag of cane sugar, take the cane sugar and pour the whole entire bag over the lemonade and take a sip again. And then chop the sugar into cocaine lines and fucking snorted up your nose. I hope I'm not the only one here. And I really can't. I believe I'm not.

I really, really want to believe I'm not. I just cannot imagine ever, of all things in the world, ever giving a shit about how much sugar someone puts in their lemonade. You did try to micromanage your dad's Pepsi habit, though. I can't imagine being online and being like, oh, I'm going going through my day scrolling and seeing someone doing sugar in their lemonade to be like oh fuck but the day's ruined i gotta i gotta stop what i'm doing to comment here i think what they said was that's an extreme amount of sugar or extreme amount of fucking sugar i'm unfollowing and i was like oh imagine my favorite is when people feel the need to announce their unfollowing,

saying unfollowing, just unfollow. Like, I don't need your grand, like your grand exit. Like we don't need an exit strategy. We don't need like an exit interview as to why you decided to do this. I know why I unfollow people. And usually it's because I've been triggered by something or because I just don't want to put my power in my, like I said, my time and money behind this, or I realized that it actually has an added value in any way. And I've never let somebody know that I've done it. I've just always quietly done it.

And I've been a successful human being by just quietly unfollowing people. So I just want everybody to know that you can absolutely just hit unfollow and never have to announce it. A hundred percent. What happens in someone's childhood where they get triggered by how much sugar someone puts in their lemonade? You never know. Again, now I'm going to get attacked. The community of people that care about sugar in the lemonade are coming for me.

Also, because it was like an entire batch of lemonade. It wasn't one cup of lemonade. Don't justify how much sugar you put in your lemonade. You want to frigging pop your puss with the sugar in your lemonade. You do you. It's okay. You don't, you don't have to apologize for it.

Actually. I like my lemonade a little bit sweeter. So I also bought a sweater that has nipples all over it just to drive that other woman. Like I'm, I'm not even, I'm three months postpartum now. So I,

you should be a nipple for Halloween hard for six months on. I'm breaking out that those nips because of that one fucking comment from that one lady, I will go hard forever. But here's the, you know, this is, this is what I'm saying though. We have to get, it's almost like, I almost want to start laughing. We have to get to a place where we can deal with the real issues and not worry about how much sugar someone's putting in their limit. People are just, they care about shit that doesn't matter. It doesn't fucking matter, people. Sometimes things just don't fucking matter

and you can just move on with your day. I do, though, think that as creators and in the space that we're in, and I'm calling to other creators too, that we do need to speak out about bullying people. I do think that this is a conversation that is our due diligence to talk out when when something's not right. Instead of sitting and just watching the person get annihilated.

Like, I don't think there's anything wrong with standing up and being like, wait, it's not right that someone got 40,000 comments of someone telling them to go kill themselves. Like, that's I don't think that I think that, that as an influencer, I don't even want to use that word. We need to have these conversations to make change in this space. We need to protect each other too. There needs to be that. It is, you know, I said once that there isn't a lot of jobs that you show up every day and you get constant performance reviews.

You don't show up to any office and then you're given performance reviews like you are as a creator. And I think because we're so scared of being aligned with somebody when they make a mistake that we're very like, Ooh, I don't want to be involved, but we do need to start banding together and being like, like the human level. Like we're not just like cogs in the system. We're human beings. So we need to like actually band together and stand up against this. I'll say there's a girl who was living in California, but she was Canadian. Most recently has been in, you know, a lot of stories because she committed suicide. And I know somebody who's close with her. And she was like, the last things I talked to her about was, you know, some of the comments

that she got on social media. This stuff actually impacts people. And I would love to be petty about everything and just slough it all off. But there is genuinely, it's very, very hard to wake up every day and get performance reviews on why you're such a shit human. And then also have performance reviews on like how great you're doing all the time. Cause then you're only going to chase that. And then you're going to constantly feel broken and beaten by all of the other things as well. It's, it's a tough, it's a tough job. And I'm, and I'm honestly, and maybe I'll catch flack for this. I'm tired of it being normal because it's, uh, you know, something that a lot of people want. A lot of people want the creatorship. They want the big following. So therefore you live this privileged life and you have these opportunities. Therefore

that just comes with the, that's what I'm trying to say. It just comes with the job. I don't think it should come with the job. I think that it's very, very wrong that we've normalized it coming with the job. But by the way, I'm not even just talking about people that have hundreds of thousands of followers. I'm talking about even someone who has 500 followers and there's a troll that comes in or a fake account that comes in. It could be anyone on the internet. I'm just going to solve the problem for everyone right now. It's literally two words. It's so easy. Be nice. Yeah. Be nice. You should see me go off sometimes when I'm in like a mood. I'll go and look at Britney Spears comments and I will just defend. Well, see, that's, what's interesting is people will look at someone like her and they'll watch that documentary and be like, I can't believe this. It makes them so angry that

someone was treated like that. But then again, some of those same people will participate in doing that at a smaller scale. And listen, I'm not crying for creators, like creators. There's obviously a ton of benefit. People make great livings, all that. But what I'm saying is this is also starting to happen to young children. People you got bullied back in the day, when we were all in school, we're all a bit, not to age us, but it didn't follow you home. You didn't have this thing. It's happening at a scale now where you're teaching kids like, hey, we can all band together online and attack other kids and make them feel worse and make them feel alienated. And it's like this behavior. It's not putting society in a great place. And I'm not even telling people to stop attacking creators. I'm just telling people to be accountable in their own life and ask yourself,

if you're the person, if you want to be the type of person that spends time online trying to hurt and tear other people down, it doesn't have to be attacking celebrities or influencers or creators, just asking yourself, is that the type of person you want to be? And if so, go with God. That's on you. Or if you're eating popcorn watching someone's demise. I think that's just as horrible too. If I ever check myself, I will check myself. Because it all starts at the individual level. And what I'm trying to point out is I always ask people, how are you servicing yourself and your family and your loved ones by participating in such an ugly conversation? And if you're feeling, if you're like, I am, and I'm changing the world, you may be right,

but you might be changing it in the wrong way. Right? Yeah. And that's a conversation that people have to have. I've noticed with my kids, my girls, especially being old enough for social media, they almost have, they're very hesitant. So I give my kids like total consent about whether or not they show up on things, whether I talk about them, everything like that. And they're very reserved on it. They're very aware that what they put up, people could say things about that people could

criticize. They're actually leaning away from social media. They're more observance than participants in it. And I am not mad about that. I think that this is a very, it's, it's interesting because it's like anything in society that's new. This is still new. I feel like we were the generation of the Guinea pigs. We started with my space. And when we used to like get to rank who was our best friends and we were so problematic in so many different ways. And then we keep coming through these different types of social media. If you look at TikTok now, it is normal to hate on people. It's actually common to see just people annihilate somebody on there. They've done studies when they've put people in rooms with robots and had them abuse them

until it felt normal. They saw it with... Do you remember the Microsoft paperclip? So they actually realized in workplaces that people would be rude and, uh, assaulting to the little paperclip or just like any of those little, anything that was like a robotic thing. Once you start doing that, that will pour over into your own life. So if you are willing to kind of make fun of your vacuum, and then you can make fun of somebody that you don't know online, and then you can do all of this, that actually does impact you. It does create a system in which you start viewing things from a negative critical

lens. And sorry, but that just sucks the joy out of your life. It's impacting you more than anybody else. And one time I was listening to JBN's podcast, the just curious or I think it's just curious or get curious, whatever. He was talking to a brain psychologist and I'm going to just like half quote what they said on there, but he talked, they talked about the fact that when somebody leaves a negative comment and you read that and you digest it, you've actually had some form of brain trauma. When you reply to it, you increase that trauma and you apply trauma to them. So sometimes when I'm going through these things and I think, do I want to reply? I make the empathetic choice, not just for myself,

but for that other person, because when we engage in it together, we are both creating just a tiny trauma in our brains, but it does pour over into everything else. And so the fact that we can, we've studied kids being able to treat robots a certain way. They've, they've said that, you know, psychopaths will abuse animals. This is just, it's going to, it is going to be an issue. The more and more we allow it to be an issue. And I think that the more we have, even just these small conversations, who knows who's listening right now, who knows who's kind of like, you know what, you're right. Like I could take a second. I could not comment at all. It can be really, I've had, I've had relationships with people that started out with them being very critical of me and are now in a,

in a friendship, like, and that actually also exists. Right. So like I've seen people change and I've seen myself change. I'm somebody who's struggled a lot with jealousy. I've struggled from being that have not and watching other people and feeling really angry about how they spend their time and money, only to now be in a place where I'm constantly criticized for how I spend my time and money. we have, we owe ourselves all the opportunity to be more empathetic people towards ourselves and towards everybody else. Yeah. People call it, you know, there's people that I'm sure like hopefully the majority of people that listen, that are listening to us, they're listening because they enjoy this show. But there's some people that I would say, like maybe a small, small demographic that hate listening. Like those people are going to be extremely hard to win over. And the reason being is like, they, they're sitting there and they're saying, I need you to understand why I see the world the way I see it. And if you don't see it the way I see it, then I'm always going to hate you. But, and they'll call this a position of privilege or being out of touch. It's like, I think what Lauren and I make a conscious effort is like, we do not want to be part of a hateful or negative conversation. We want to be part of conversation for change or positivity. And like that, you can call that what it is. It's just, I think there's enough content out there and enough people out there that are doing things

to tear other people down. And I think with this platform, we choose to try and not do that. It's not to disregard or not acknowledge that some people are angry or dislike us. It's that we can't, I can't let something like this that has the reach it does, and same with you, go into a space where it participates in tearing other people down. Exactly. And I think that at the end of the day, all anybody wants is to be heard and validated. Even if you don't agree with somebody's opinion, this is what I've learned. There's a lot of people I don't agree with their opinions, but I can still validate that that is theirs. And mine is mine. I don't have to agree with theirs to make them like me. And I also don't have to tear them down in order to feel like I'm right. Or my feelings are validated. There is such thing as differences

of opinion. There is such thing as these things. And I just, I don't know. I realized that. And even like I went through marriage counseling at one point, they talked about everyone wants to just feel validated. They want to feel like what they say and do has value. And so they struggle when they feel like somebody is going against, you know, what their beliefs might be or what their structure of life might be. But at the end of the day, like if somebody comes to me and they're like, I even had somebody today who was like, have you ever thought about this in this way? Because this is coming off a little bit like this. And I just

replied. And I was like, first of all, thank you so much for taking the time to say this to me. I'm hearing what you're saying. I love that you actually took the time to, you know, had a desire to try and like pour into me with a different angle and a different lens because I am somebody who likes to, you know, take in opinions and, you know, constructive kind, not, not petty nipples and lemonades, but honestly, nine times out of 10, when you say to somebody like, I hear you and thank you for like taking the time to say that almost everybody is in a positive response from that. Cause all they want is to be validated. You don't have to agree with them. You simply have to say like, just thank you for that. But we do this. We, we have to interject ourselves

into everything, our opinions into everything. And I think it's, it's struggle. It's a struggle for me. I love talking. I love kind of having these chats and also it's really hard sometimes. Like I've been on podcast interviews before where somebody had a completely different opinion from me and I hear myself back and I'll listen to it and I'm going, yeah, no, totally. And I'm like, no, not totally. I actually disagreed with that. And I didn't feel like I had the place on my own platform to say, you know what? I actually don't agree with that, but this is such a great conversation to have. There's so many great conversations to have from different opinions. Sarah, you are a gem, a diamond. This conversation is so important. I think the theme of this episode is be kind to everyone. You don't know what people are going through. Just be nice. Sarah, what is a book, a podcast or resource that you would recommend to someone who's struggling

right now with an eating disorder? First, I would just say to go through their newsfeed and start looking at a way that can build themselves up instead of tearing them down. If you are struggling and you're having that mental hangover from social media, start looking at who you're following, start paying attention. I don't even, I don't even think it has to be one book or one podcast or one, anything pay attention to your own fucking thoughts. It's really, really important to pay attention to your thoughts. Once you pay attention to your thoughts, you can start to see where things are damaging or you're struggling with them. And you can start to remove yourself from those spaces. If it is your mirror every day, try and spend less time in front of it until it feels like a healing place. If it's a relationship with somebody that you're in reflect on that, maybe make some changes,

create some boundaries. Boundaries are not walls. Boundaries are bridges. There is so much. We allow ourselves to not realize for our own wellbeing because we're not listening to ourselves. We're not listening to our opinions. We're not listening to our feelings. Be willing to sit with that. We're, we're really good at distracting ourselves away from it because it can be uncomfortable work can be uncomfortable to be alone in them, but it doesn't matter what book or podcast or anything. It really comes down to just paying attention to yourself and what self-love is for you. And I know that's like such a cliche term, but genuinely what makes you feel good and what makes you feel loved and lean the fuck in. You're amazing.

Where can everyone find you? Pimp yourself out. You can find me at the bird Sophia on Instagram, and that's kind of my wheelhouse. You'll find me like my Instagram stories. I live in almost all day long. So that's pretty much my highest thing. And then I have the papaya podcast as well. But if you go on to my Instagram,

you're going to find everything from there for sure. You're incredible. I can't wait to do this in LA over Rose. Hopefully soon. Thank you so much. You guys go listen to me on Sarah's amazing podcast. We did a swap and thank you, Sarah, for taking the time. And Sarah, add as much sugar as you want to that lemonade. Cheers. Do you want to win a copy of my book that is coming out June 15th? It's called Get the Fuck Out of the Sun. It's available on Amazon, Target,

all small bookstores and Barnes & Noble. All you have to do is tell us your favorite part of this conversation with Sarah on my latest Instagram, at Lauren Bostick. And someone will drop into your DMs and tell you you won the book. It's so much fun. And Sarah's in it, which is so exciting. Thank you guys so much for listening. Make sure you rate it and review the podcast on iTunes. We'll see you next time.