The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Straight Pepper Diet, Sex Addiction, The Prison System, Alcohol Addiction & Redemption With Joseph W. Naus
Episode Date: March 8, 2021#337: Joseph W. Naus was living the American Dream. He'd survived a brutal childhood, graduated from Pepperdine Law School, and become a successful attorney. Then one night, his American Dream-life be...came a nightmare when his sex and alcohol addictions collided and exploded."On Tuesday, I was a respected civil trial lawyer making six-figures. On Wednesday, I woke up handcuffed to a hospital bed charged with attempted murder...and then it got worse To connect with Joseph Naus click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by No Days Wasted Their hero product is called DHM Detox, which is the vitamin for people who like to enjoy their drinks. It’s designed to help you bounce back the next day. Get 20% off your order and free shipping in the US. Just head over to www.NoDaysWasted.CO/SKINNY and use promo code "SKINNY” at checkout This episode is brought to you by BETABRAND and their Betabrand dress pant yoga pants. To try these pants go to betabrand.com/skinny and receive 20% off your order. Millions of women agree these are the most comfortable pants you’ll ever wear to work. Produced by Dear Media
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The following podcast is a Dear Media production.
She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire.
Fantastic.
And he's a serial entrepreneur.
A very smart cookie.
And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride.
Get ready for some major realness.
Welcome to The Skinny Confidential, him and her.
All of this is a blur to me.
Most of it is from the police report,
but I put him in a chokehold from my martial arts days.
The LAPD recognized the chokehold I put him in
was a deadly chokehold,
so they charged me with attempted murder.
That's where Straight Pepper Diet, my book, begins.
Welp, this episode goes all over the place. I think you guys
are going to love it. We talk about addiction. We talk about alcoholism. We talk about an addiction
to massage parlors. We talk about prison, prison reforms. Prison, prison reform. It goes all over
the place. I am such a big fan of this guest today,
Joseph Noss. He wrote the book Straight Pepper Diet. I found it through Amy Dresner, who's been
on the show. She writes so candidly about her addiction story in My Fair Junkie. And she told
me to read this book. I fell in love with it. I just thought it was so real, but also so hopeful. And he was truly so honest. Joseph talks about how he was raised by his mother, who was a heroin addict turned shut in depressive. And he talks about crime, poverty, like Michael said, jail. We kind of go all over the place. And this interview is candid. He also happens to have graduated from Pepperdine.
He is a lawyer.
He's an author of two books, The Straight Pepper Diet and The Paul's Graph Revelation.
What I really love about his story is there's a real arc to it. Obviously, it follows somebody who grew up in very hard circumstances,
who had to overcome those circumstances, who along the way dealt with addiction,
prison, all sorts of problems.
But really, if you look at Joseph's life now, successful author, successful marriage, really turned his life around. And I think these
are the type of stories people need to hear if you're in a dark place and you're looking for
that bright light at the end of the tunnel. Stories like Joseph's are really powerful because
it shows somebody who really was struggling and who came out the other side. So I hope everybody
enjoys this episode. And just to tease it a little bit, he was a lawyer. He went out for a couple of drinks.
He woke up the next morning, handcuffed to a hospital bed and charged with attempted murder.
So this episode goes all over the place. And I would say if you have kids in the car,
maybe this isn't the episode to listen to right now. With that, let's welcome Joseph
to the Skinny Confidential Him and Her podcast. This is the Skinny Confidential Him
and Her. I am so excited to have Joseph here because I read his book Straight Pepper Diet
a while ago and fell in love with the book. It's so good. And he just wrote a new book and he's
here and we're going to ask him all the questions.
First, can you just tell the audience a little bit about how you grew up?
Your childhood was gnarly.
Can you give us a little peek behind the scenes at that?
I grew up, well, first of all, I'm 50.
I just turned 50 and I was born in 1971.
I grew up in Riverside, California, which is in the Inland Empire here in California, in Southern California.
My mom and dad were really young.
She was 17 when she had me.
My dad was 19.
I grew up really poor in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood.
My dad left when I was six weeks old, and my mom was a heroin addict.
So we grew up on welfare and poverty.
It's funny.
When I look back on it, you don't know what you don't know. So whatever your life is, is what you think life is like. You're fish in water. And so my mom and I used to drive around. She had this old beat up VW Bug. And we used to drive around and singing songs and stuff on the radio. And I thought it was all great. And I remember one of my first memories is going to score dope with her. Of course, I didn't know I was scoring dope and she left and I was in the car
for a long time. And then the next thing I know she's arrested and she's taken to the police
station and I'm taken into custody in the police station too. And then after that, she got out and
she went on methadone and stuff like that. What age were you when this was going on?
When she was arrested, I think I was in first grade.
Okay.
So it's like six, five, six, seven years old.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
At what point did you realize in your childhood, my mom's a heroin addict?
Was there an epiphany where you saw her doing it in front of you?
How did you start to know, oh, there's something wrong here?
Or you just didn't realize it was wrong because you were, that was all you knew? Well, I guess after she got arrested, she would
go, we would go to the methadone clinic. So I kind of knew what methadone was. I mean, one of my,
another fun experience I used to have is my mom and I would take the bus to the methadone clinic
and they would always give, I'd be in the waiting room, and they would always give me Kool-Aid, or no, not Kool-Aid, Hi-C, and it looked the same color as the methadone. And so she would
take the methadone, and I'd take that. So I kind of knew that she was a heroin addict. And then
after that, she kind of became a shut-in depressive, so it actually got worse, and she
started taking pills and speed and stuff like that. So that actually was kind of worse. When
you're on heroin, you just sleep all the time. I'd come home from school sometimes after she got off of heroin,
and she'd be cleaning and stuff, and the windows would be open.
I'd be like, what the hell is going on?
That was really weird because my mom didn't clean or open windows and stuff.
She basically slept until 2 in the afternoon.
I'd come home from school sometimes, and she'd still be asleep.
What would you do as a young kid when she was just sleeping?
Did you have any friends, any siblings?
What were you doing to entertain yourself?
Well, I was by myself.
I didn't have any siblings.
Actually, my dad went on and had a whole separate family.
So I have five brothers and sisters who I didn't know until way into my 20s.
And so now I have a relationship with some of them, which is great.
But when I was a kid, I didn't have anybody. When I was a kid, I had a lot of techniques which were geared around
getting food because we didn't have enough food to eat. And somehow I had figured out that if I
went to a better school that I could do better. So I used one of my friend's addresses to sign
up for a better school, which meant I had to ride my bike three miles to school every day but i got to be around kids that were not super poor so i would
spend the night at their houses as often as possible and go to their houses after school to
eat and then during the summer i would go to the boys club which is like i don't know if people
know what that's like but it's like kind of like the poor version of the YMCA. It was an old
Safeway supermarket that had been abandoned or whatever and converted into a boys club. And they
would get donations of pinball machines and stuff. And that's where all the kids hang out. And they
would give away food during the summer. So that's how I was able to eat. I mean, it's not like I was
starving. It's America. It's not Africa's it's a different type of uh food sure but it wasn't maybe as abundant as as the people that the school that
you were going to right like they like if you started going to a school with people that had
a little bit more means than you they were they were not struggling like that oh no no no yeah
no so did you have grant what this nice elementary school I remember like I had a friend whose dad
was a lawyer and we'd go to their houses and I'd just be like, oh my God. I remember one of the kids had a two-story house. And I'd
just be like, this guy's like, his dad must be a billionaire or something. And now I look back on
it and I drive around that neighborhood and stuff and I realize, oh, those are just lower to middle
class kids. But I was so poor that I didn't know. I kind of knew the difference because my aunt,
I used to go over to my aunt's house and she, they had,
they were kind of middle class,
but I thought they were super rich too.
They had a pool and it was like,
it was like Disneyland.
What are some tools and tactics
and good things that came out of your childhood?
Like for instance,
like did it cause you to get really creative
with things like independence?
Like what are some good things
that you look back on
that you're grateful for?
Oh, perspective. To this day, when I get into a car that I know is going to start, I feel grateful.
And I've had a car that I know will start for many, many years now. And yet I still get in
and go like, this is really cool. So just like not taking things for granted. I was very lucky
to have some aunts and uncles that I would see every once in a while and the kids that I spoke of. And so I did see a different way of life. So I think that was something that probably was
beneficial and a turning point for me, as opposed to maybe some other kids that were
less fortunate who didn't see that as much. There's neighborhoods right around here in
South Central and stuff around Los Angeles where these kids like never leave a mile radius and they don't ever see anything but poverty.
And I actually got to see some other things.
So I didn't know it was possible.
And so the long answer to your short question is education.
Like I realized like, hey, there's a way out of this and it's education.
And so I was good at liberal arts type stuff,
English and things like that. So I knew that if I could do well in school, I could get out of
poverty. What was your first drug or alcohol experience? Do you remember it?
In high school, I had a drink a couple of times and maybe a couple of joints or whatever it's
called now, marijuana. But my first time getting drunk wasn't until when I was in New York
for the first time when I was in college.
So I didn't get drunk until I was 21.
So you stayed away from drugs and alcohol for a while.
Yeah.
I mean, I saw my mom and my dad and what it had done to them.
And so drugs were totally verboten for me personally,
but I thought alcohol wasn't drugs.
And so I still stayed away from them because I was straight edge in high school, which is more a musical thing than a,
I don't know if you guys know. You have the X on your hand?
Yeah, yeah. I used to wear the X on my hand and all that stuff and go to these little gigs and
stuff. So that kept me out of trouble for a while. But when I got into college and I realized, okay,
now I'm on my way to law school and And I had my first experience in New York.
And that was like the first time I ever got wasted drunk.
And I always say this, like,
and one night I cheated on my girlfriend.
First time I'd ever been done that.
Smoked cigarettes, first time I ever done that
and got wasted on alcohol.
And first time I'd ever done that, one night in New York.
And it became the new best
thing ever. I realized everything I've been doing that I enjoyed, none of it came close to the
experience of that, of feeling like that, looking up at those sky rises in the cold, smoking a
cigarette, drinking and cheating. So when you cheated on her, did you guys break up?
No, no, she didn't know about it.
So you just kept it a secret?
Yeah.
And then did it become the new norm to go out, get drunk, cheat on her?
You said that you loved that feeling.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it did.
I was terribly, I was a very principled person.
I always have been.
I have these ideas of what I want to do with my life and how I want to live. How did those principles manifest themselves? Give me an example before.
What was one of your principles or two of your principles? Well, I'll give you a kind of
controversial one, right? And this is a good example. When I read Diet for a New America,
when I was in high school, I immediately became a vegetarian and we were super poor. I didn't have
no resources to do it. I just believed
that was the right thing to do. But then when I started drinking, two years later, when I started
drinking, that all went away, right? So it shows you like there's a principle that's very specific,
hardcore, and then immediately it just washed away. And so, but I don't know where like just
basic spiritual principles, practical spiritual principles of honesty, integrity, love, those things.
If you ask me where they came from, I don't know.
I just thought they were the right thing to do.
And I thought like a wholesome life.
I mean, ironically, given what you've read in my book, I just love wholesomeness.
Like when you're around poverty and heroin and that type of stuff, the last thing in the world I wanted to do was exactly what I ended up doing in my addictions.
I just wanted a wife and a two-bedroom house and a good job, and I'd be happy forever.
You just wanted some sense of being normal, right?
Yeah.
What was going on with your parents during this time right before you went to college?
Your dad came back in your life? Your mom was still around. Like how, what were they up to? I didn't meet my dad
until I think I was like eight years old or something. And he was always gone. He never came
back. He, you know, he had his own trajectory of not good trajectory. My mom just, she did drugs
or no. Well, according to my dad, who doesn't talk to me anymore. I mean, he doesn't.
He said he didn't.
My mom told me that she first did heroin because my dad turned her on to it when she was 14.
But he denies that.
But yeah, he's an addict.
No question about it to this day.
He's amazing.
He has great genes.
So he's still alive.
But yeah, they never got back together. When you're growing up in this environment of your mom using heroin,
and then she switches to speed.
And is there like, I imagine like is, like, disheveled.
Like, is there, like, needles open?
Is there, like, paraphernalia everywhere?
Like, what is the environment?
Or is it, like, a clean thing where you don't see anything and you never saw anything?
Well, I do remember, okay, well, here's a couple examples.
We live in a one-bedroom apartment bedroom apartment in the alley we call it the alley she lived on she slept on the sofa and it was one of
those vinyl plastic sofas and there was always holes i mean it had more holes on it than it had
not holes because she would not out while smoking a cigarette and burn the burn the plastic luckily
it didn't catch on fire because plastic would just burn out. And I do remember a few times seeing bent spoons. Like she would take a spoon and bend it this way,
like an S. So it stood up on itself and then it would have burn marks on it. Now I know what
that's from. Back then, I didn't know. I guess you heat the heroin in that. But other than that,
no, no. I mean, I do remember these little tinfoil packets that my mom used to get Valium from a psychiatrist that, you know, but yeah, that's it. And the mood changes when she's in heroin, she'd just sleep. And when she would do the speed, she would be like these weird moods where I'd get home and she'd be like cleaning the house and cooking and stuff is really strange. This is like one of my favorite partnerships and that is No Days Wasted. Let me
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I remember when I was in college, I lived with someone who was an addict and there was
aluminum foil all over the house everywhere. And I didn't know what it was. I was like,
what is this? I'd find aluminum foil everywhere. I want to jump forward to your first drink.
So does it spiral quick or is it a slow addiction happening? Did you immediately you immediately when you started drinking was like, I want to do this every
single night or was it slow?
No, not at all.
I was in college.
I was kicking ass.
You know, I was the president of this and the president of that.
I was 4.0 and I had my trajectory.
I was trying to get into law school.
I went to a decent undergraduate college, but nothing that was going to pull any strings. So I had to get really good grades and I did everything.
And I worked for this really great lawyer, trial lawyer. I mean, I was doing great. I was kickboxing
at the time still. And I said this whole kickboxing career that ran parallel to my academic career,
but it was just in the back of my head, like This is the best thing. So when you have time, you can go do this. And then when I got into law school, I got really depressed. And that's when I
really started drinking. I ended up in law school. I lived at the dorms and I was one of the few
people who didn't have anybody in the dorm with me because my fellow dorm mate had a house in
Malibu. His parents lived in Malibu. And so he would just stay there all the time.
So I was by myself all the time in these dorms.
And I got really depressed.
And I started drinking a lot at that point.
And I still graduated and passed the bar.
But slowly, it got worse.
By the time I got to Oceanside, I was full on.
And was it just alcohol at this point?
Or did you start graduating to other substances?
Just alcohol.
Alcohol and cigarettes and sex,
sex addiction in all different forms.
You talk about that in your book.
You're so open about how you talk about
how you sort of got addicted.
And I don't know if that's the right word,
but addicted to like massage parlors.
Yeah.
I've never heard anyone talk about that.
So my first question is,
you just walk into a massage parlor
and say, I want a massage.
And then it ends with a happy ending.
Massage parlors are this fucking, are this crazy thing in American culture that it's
come out a little bit lately in the last 10 years, but it is phenomenal how many massage
parlors there are and how it is.
Our producer just popped a boner.
He's Googling massage parlors right now.
So you got to be careful of that.
He's in the back mapping them out.
Well, yeah.
Okay.
So massage parlors.
Actually, when you asked me that question about addiction, probably my first addiction
was 976 numbers.
That came before drinking.
I actually got-
Sex hotlines.
Sex hotlines.
I remember I actually, when I was in high school, I called a bunch of sex hotlines.
I got off from it and I got totally addicted to it.
You wrote about that in the book.
Yeah.
I totally got addicted to it to the point of where I had to, I had such a huge phone bill
that I had to pretend I was my dad and call them and tell them that, you know,
that this is, you don't use a deep voice and got them to reduce it and paid it off.
Because they said like, hey, this is a minor.
You were doing this where they better cut it down.
Yeah.
And then I had picked up a street prostitute several times in Riverside when I was in college.
And it was just such a rush.
People describe, like I've been in meetings and people will describe what heroin's like,
like going to the dealer and then scoring.
Like they'll talk about going to the dealer is almost as much of a rush as the actual
drug itself.
And that's exactly what it was like, like the rush of it.
So that was, I'm really lucky I never got hurt or got a disease or anything.
But yeah, I did that quite a bit.
I have a severe addiction to foot spas.
I'm actually going to one today.
What the hell have you been doing in those spas?
Now I'm going to be wondering.
I go to the foot spa and I get two hours uninterrupted of work done on my phone
because you can just get your feet massaged oh my god is that the kind of like parlor that you're talking about the foot
spas that i go to like if i ask for a half and it's it i i'm honestly asking no that's not it
this is not the same kind i fucking hope not lauren if you went to a massage parlor they would
they would just turn you down they would just tell you oh we're busy okay but let me these are
unincorporated usually they're in unincorporated areas. There are some still.
Interestingly, in Santa Monica, where I had moved to, they had some that were grandfathered in
because they'd been there so long because Santa Monica used to be a military town. And so,
on Pico, they used to have these massage parlors. They probably couldn't get in there now.
So, anyways, the point is, as you go in these massage parlors there it's all immigrants asian immigrants that work 90 you go in there for a
massage and if you know the right lingo and the right things to do and you put the money in the
right place then you can get whatever you want what's the lingo i need to know the lingo like
what do you like you say like do you wink like what is the lingo? Wink. You know, I had a friend in recovery
who I told what I'm about to tell you to,
and it spiraled.
He went into a whole thing of it.
So I don't want to get anybody in trouble,
but, you know, the reality is.
Taylor's taking notes.
Listen, let's put a disclaimer.
You got to use your best judgment here, people.
Don't spiral, but I think people do want to know.
No, I'm curious.
That part of your book, I'm very, very curious.
It's human nature to be curious. I want to know, like, is'm curious. That part of your book, I'm very, very curious. It's human nature to be curious.
I want to know, is there a little thing?
What do you do?
Well, okay.
So I remember the first time I ever saw one, I was driving with my dad.
I went to work for him.
He had a fence company.
I went to work for him.
And we drove down this unincorporated area out by Pomona.
Poor area.
And I remember seeing it.
I was a kid and being like,
this isn't right. Like why would a massage parlor be out in the middle of nowhere like this? And it
looked real weird and stuff. And so that caught my attention. It wasn't like two years later,
I did it for the first time. As soon as I turned 18, I drove out there. Basically what it is,
you go in, it's always very clandestine, it's very dark and closed, and there's big security gates. You walk in, there's a little lobby. Someone opens up the door, it's usually an older Asian lady, and she says, have you been here before? And you say yes that. And then they take you back.
And if you put a towel, they give you a towel, you undress.
If you take the towel off and you're completely exposed
with your chest down on the table, then they know.
And you put the, it costs like $40 at least.
I haven't done it in many, many years.
But it costs $40 to go.
And if you put another 40 or I think it was 40 at the time, maybe 60 down on the table,
then they know that you want to have sex.
And then that's that.
That is so crazy.
So you just take the towel off.
Well, the other things I think get you there too.
You have to like, because the most important thing, especially if you look like me,
is that they want to make sure you're not a cop.
Oh.
So, and the cops don't bother these places.
First of all, they're good neighbors.
They pay their taxes.
They're in unincorporated areas.
Typically, it's kind of a quote unquote victimless crime.
Now, I don't purport to that at all.
Now, I know what I know now.
I believe that a lot of these places are very, very dark places.
And a lot of these people would qualify as sex traffic victims.
What do you know now?
Can you educate the audience on what is actually happening?
Well, I believe, based on just what I've seen in the news and stuff,
that a lot of these women will get here illegally.
And then their passports will be held.
And they have this deal where you work off your passport.
You've heard about this stuff before, right?
I haven't.
I have not heard this.
Well, okay. Say you're living in a third world country where you can barely make a living or
barely survive. You come to America. Next thing you know, you're living in one of these places
or a place next to it, and you're working off your passport. They say, we'll take you here,
and for 20,000, we'll get you a passport, and we'll get you a place to live, and you have to
work it off. And of course, they never credit you and their intention is to keep you
there forever. And you're basically a prostitute. It's not like, I doubt any of these people wanted
to be there because they prefer to do this than another job. I mean, I didn't think that at the
time. I just thought, oh, this is harmless. Maybe I supplant or suppress that in my mind. But now
looking at it, I mean, it's pretty obvious that was the case.
I think it's cool you wrote about it because talking about it removes the judgment around
it. And I think that it was really honest and bold that you wrote about it. The first time
that you went, were you automatically addicted to that? Was it an automatic thing or was it
something you're doing every day? Are you doing it once a year? What does that look like? It depends on how much. I mean, it cost $100 a pop
and a lot of the times I was a college student, so it wasn't like I had that much money. But once a
week, twice a week, it was bad. We got to the point where certain ones I would have more than
one at a time, more than one masseuse at a time. And so that kept up in the ante of what you did and how many
people you did it with. Kind of like experience stretching.
What's experience stretching? We talked about on the show,
experience stretching, and sorry to the audience that's heard me say this before,
but experience stretching is like the example I've heard. I think a guy that did is Kevin Rose.
He's like, you can go out and see the most amazing sunset in the world. And I apologize
for people that have heard this, but in the, and you say, you look to your partner or whatever,
you say, oh, this life couldn't get better than this. This is the best sunset I've
ever seen life. This is the best. And then a year goes by and you see that same sunset, but maybe
you have a drink in your hand and you're making a little bit of money. You're like, well, life
can't get better than this. And then the next time you're like, maybe you're in, you know,
an exotic location and you see that same study, you're like, well, it can't get better. You just
keep stretching and stretching. And like what, maybe you're on a yacht one time, like can't get
better. And then what happens is you see that same sunset that originally made you happy and it actually makes
you depressed because you've stretched the experience so far that the stuff you used to
think was great has become actually like it makes you feel like you're regressing or going back right
it upsets you this isn't a weird example to use but in the massage part so you go and you have
one the first time you're like okay and you do two and it's like you can't you can't go back to the
one because you've stretched the experience so far yeah the original
experience is actually depressing or not or in your mind not good anymore right i see it's so
it's like tolerance like the for drug addict be like tolerance exactly like so like an addict
can't have like a single drink anymore because they've gone so or like they can't just do alcohol
anymore right like it's it's it's called experience stretching gotcha oh learn something yeah i mean that sounds kind of like
what happens when you just keep going and going were you simultaneously drinking when you the
massage parlor was happening or did the drinking come after here we are back in familiar territory
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off. They kind of like, I consider myself omni addict, cigarettes, cigarettes, alcohol, sex.
And then within the sex, it would be like a hierarchy one night stand, probably the best
massage parlor too. And then porn far distant three or whatever
and so whatever combination of whatever i could get would be what i could get sex addiction
probably was my first addiction my first love and then alcohol kind of took over i did realize the
danger of sex addiction i mean that was one of the parts that made the massage parlor so
so much of a thing was like you you got the rush, almost the rush
of like straight prostitution, but you also got the protection because those places are very,
very careful about security and stuff. So it's very hard to get busted at one of those places,
unless you just like break into one in the middle of the night and attack somebody or something.
At what point do you start to feel like, hey, this is a problem? Because it sounds like you
had your life. I mean, if you're in law school and putting yourself through and getting good grades,
it sounds like you're also functioning.
At what point did you say like, oh, I'm no longer functioning.
This is actually a problem.
Or did it take a while for you to realize that?
Well, with the sex stuff, I always thought it was immoral.
And so when I became a lawyer and I moved to Oceanside, I, for the most part, stopped.
I had a couple of relapses.
I stopped that. And I had a girlfriend that lived with me. So that was pretty easy. And then the alcohol and the most part, stopped. I had a couple of relapses. I stopped that.
And I had a girlfriend that lived with me.
So that was pretty easy.
And then the alcohol and the cigarettes ramped up.
And I didn't really think the alcohol and cigarettes were an addiction.
I knew that sometimes they were a problem, but I didn't know they were necessarily an
addiction.
I mean, to be honest with you, I didn't really want to stop any of this stuff until I got
in rehab and was charged with attempted murder.
And what are the circumstances behind
that? That sounds like that's an escalation. Sorry, that's not the... Riders are supposed
to slowly dole this out. I apologize. No, I like jumping... Like, okay. So maybe that's a period of
time you almost kill somebody and then you get arrested. That's the catalyst or...
I was working at this law firm in the Inland Empire, one of the best law firms out there.
And I got a DUI and I rolled a car off of the side of the freeway at 85 miles per hour with a passenger charged with a felony DUI. I thought to myself, okay, I'm really embarrassed. I need to move.
Did the law firm took me into their office after it came back, a huge black eye, and basically said, ah, don't worry about it.
Just take it easy when you drink.
And they told me stories about their clients that had DUIs that they represented them.
And they thought it was funny, quite frankly.
The DA didn't think it was funny.
They were trying to put me in jail.
They were trying to make an example of me because I was an attorney.
So it was very clear
to me at the time that I had a driving problem. So I moved to Santa Monica where I could walk to
bars. When I moved to Santa Monica, I got a better job, making more money at a better firm,
and I could walk to bars at that point. So the drunk driving was no longer an issue. So I just
drank and drank and drank. And then when I was about to fail out of that law firm, I started my own law firm with a friend of mine and we made even
more money and we're doing better and better. And I had more time and more money. So I drank more
and more and more trips to Vegas, et cetera, et cetera. I ended up, there was massage parlors
around there. I lived on the 34th and Pico and this condo over there. And there was massage parlors around there. I lived on the 34th and Pico in this condo over there.
And there was these massage parlors that I frequented over there. And one night I got
drunk out of my mind into a complete blackout. And I went to the massage parlor. It was like
two in the morning. I'd stopped at a bank and got $100 so I could pay for it.
I pounded on the front door. It was like in this motel that had been one leg of the motel had been converted into a massage parlor and the others had been converted into single
residence occupancies. And I went to the, pounded on it and woke some people up and went to the back
door. Nobody was in there. It was like three in the morning. And I climbed in the window
to the massage parlor. Go in the bathroom like you do they usually give you a towel and you
change and when the bathroom i changed and uh took off all my clothes and walked in and it was not
the massage parlor it was the adjacent room that was occupied by some dude and he had a industrial
fan going because it was really hot so he didn't hear me and he was a neat freak. So it looked
like a business bathroom. It was completely devoid of any personal objects. So he freaks out,
I freak out and we get in a fight and he chases me out of there.
So he finds you naked in his bathroom through the window?
No, I walk into the living room. He wakes up naked.
I might freak out too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You might kill me, which very well could have room. Oh, so you're naked. He wakes up naked. I might freak out too.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You might kill me.
Yeah.
Which very well could have happened.
I'm lucky it didn't happen.
I had put him in a, he was freaking out and I was trying to quiet him.
I mean, all of this is a blur to me.
Most of it is from the police report, but I put him in a chokehold from my martial arts days.
The LAPD recognized the chokehold I put him in was a deadly choke hold. So they charged me with attempted murder. That's where straight pepper diet, my book,
begins. It's so good, you guys. You have to read it. What do you think when you wake up the next
morning? Are you like, oh, fuck? Or are you like, I need a glass of water. I'm hungover.
Well, when I woke up, I woke up with a doctor stapling my head shut because
the guys had hit me over the head with a skateboard a bunch of times. The guy that you broke into his
house? Yeah, I broke into the house. He and his neighbor chased me across the street and one of
them had a bat and one of them had a skateboard. And because I was so anesthetized, they were
hitting me. I was trying to get out of
there, but they were trying to trap me because the cops were coming. And it was a huge crowd of
people. And there was a helicopter over above, but the cops hadn't got there yet. So they were
trying to keep me there. And I was trying to leave, putting on my clothes. And they kept hitting me to
keep me still. And I kept on trying to go, but I was so anesthetized that I was like a tranquilized
bear. So this guy kept hitting me over the head with a skateboard and i do remember thinking like oh i'm gonna die like if he hits me
again i'm gonna die so i skateboards are fucking dangerous as a weapon no really i mean like people
like people don't realize like with those trucks and the wheels and the metal like oh god yeah
yeah so he cracked open my skull and i i woke up in a hospital with a doctor stapling my head shut.
And so to answer your question, I guess I didn't go to sleep after that.
It was like this nightmare.
You get taken to Twin Towers, and it's just Twin Towers.
It's like this just absolute.
Twin Towers is the jail in downtown LA.
It's one of the largest jails in the country.
It's one of the most dangerous, horrible places in the world and outside of maybe Kandahar or something.
You get checked in there and it's just a walking nightmare.
I mean, to answer your question, I was suicidal.
I was basically like, man, I had a really good run.
I did some experience stretching.
You know, I'd been to some-
Yeah, you did a little bit.
I'd been to Europe.
What age was this?
Sorry.
Let's see.
This was in 2003, so I was 32.
Okay.
And I had been to Europe and I had started my own law practice.
I had won some trials and I had far surpassed anybody's expectations of me,
I think at that point. And so I thought, this is it, I'm done. Some people die at 80,
some people die at 30, whatever. I think another question that a lot of people would have that
is human nature to be curious about is jail. I am so curious about jail. I'm watching that show
with my husband. What's it called again? 30 Days In.
30 Days In. 30 Days In.
Or 60 Days In.
Or 60 Days In.
And like, what is it like?
What is the food like?
What is the water like?
What are the guards like?
What's the atmosphere?
If you could really describe it.
And I'm sure they have to read your book
because the book, you guys, is so good.
And you do go into detail,
but I would just love to know.
Yeah, yeah.
I wrote the book, Straight Pepper Diet, in first person present. And because I wanted people to step into my shoes and
experience what it's like to be in jail and prison. And, you know, I got a lot of people
like those sections a lot because, you know, it's something that normal people hopefully don't
experience. And, you know, I had two experiences. I had jail and then I had prison, which were two different things. I write
extensively about that both in the book. Twin Towers is this dangerous, horrible place. You
are brought in there and you're stripped and you're put in these orange jumpsuits. I was put
in a special color jumpsuit because I was a suicide risk. You walk. It's basically like this
weird maze. There's literally lines,
different colored lines that go through the whole institution. And they tell you,
follow this red line. And sometimes you follow a line and you're not even around any COs or
correctional officers. You just follow the line until you get to wherever next is locked and they
take you there. And so you're with a bunch of other people and some of them are very experienced
and they feel like, you know, you feel like they're at Starbucks and they've been there so many times.
It's no big deal for them.
And some people are like me where they're just terrified out of their mind.
And the CEOs, the correctional officers in jails are deputies.
They're sheriff officers, right?
They're deputies.
So when you're a sheriff officer, at least the way it used to be, is you go to the sheriff's academy and then you have to spend two years in the jail before you go out and go out in the town some of them are okay and some of them get desensitized they get really
desensitized to to us to to to the criminals that are in there and they and they don't treat them
like humans and they they're brutal and they just do you empathize at all with that or do you think
like what i mean putting yourself in there i mean not i don't one way or the other but what do you
think causes that desensitization because is it because they're just dealing with this stuff day in, day out that at
some point it's like they got to disconnect or do you think that there's a way to correct that and
make it so they don't get desensitized? Can we do another podcast on that? Yeah, we can.
You know, I have a criminal justice degree. I have a, a jurist doctorate. I have a lot of
friends who are cops. One of my best friends is a cop in LAPD.
I worked at a gym that was full of cops and I was a lawyer. So I had a lot of experience with
cops and what it takes. And I was going to become a cop. At one time, I was kickboxing at the
Nationals in Long Beach and I was waiting to go on to my fight. And there was the cops,
they were recruiting there because it was a big martial arts thing.
And they were breaking down and they came over to me and started talking to me. And, you know,
they're telling me like, oh, you can make 50 grand a year, you have a bachelor's degree and all this
stuff. And so I was really into it. But I look back on that and I think that maybe there's a
problem that the LAPD is recruiting at martial arts academies, you know, martial arts things.
Maybe they should be recruiting at math events.
So I think personally that there's a long tradition of cops, officers being kind of
from a demographic that takes more physical machismo into value than emotional and mental
strength. And when you are put in a situation where you're around
dangerous situations and dangerous people, and those people tend to look alike,
whether it be by color or demographic, you, if you are not trained properly and have emotional
and educational strength in this regard, you will end up to start seeing those people as inferior or as criminal. And so I think
a lot of that is where it comes from. And I don't think most of them, maybe some of them,
definitely some of them start out like that. But I think a lot of them become that. There's a reason
that Twin Towers has been under federal mandate for, what, 20 years now. What does that mean, federal mandate?
Federal mandate means they've been sued under a Section 19-3 case, a civil rights case,
and that the Attorney General of the United States, I believe, who has jurisdiction over it,
has said, you guys are not following, you guys are not basically complying with civil rights guidelines.
And that, so the feds have jurisdiction over them and they're supposed to do certain things i
mean lee baka is in prison now i think he was the sheriff during most of his time i think he's in
prison now funnily enough i saw him at alhambra the other day playing golf like before he was
about to get sentenced to go to prison but anyways that's a long thing to answer your question but
something i feel no i think it was a i think it was a thoughtful answer and i think that you're
probably spot on there.
It's the root cause of, you know, you got to correct this.
You need EQ.
Yeah, you got to correct this stuff at the root, right?
Like it's, and I think that that's a very difficult thing to do.
I don't have the answer.
I don't think any of us do, but I think your answer is pretty spot on.
Do you think the way that the inmates were treated was fair that you saw?
Or do you think that there was a lot of things wrong with it?
Oh, no, no, no.
They're not treated fairly at all.
It's just, you know.
That's what I observed when I watched that show.
And I know it's a show,
but it doesn't seem like they're treated very fairly.
If you ever look on Facebook
and somebody will commit a crime
and then you'll see somebody
who you think is like a normal housewife or whatever,
and they'll be like, so-and-so did
this. I hope they get raped in jail. That's kind of the American, a lot of Americans feel that way
about certain criminals. They're just like, fuck them. I hope they rot in hell. Whatever they get
in jail is what they deserve. And I just think to myself, and this is before I was a criminal,
I think to myself like,
man, that's not what this criminal justice system is for.
Maybe you believe in revenge and maybe you don't.
Maybe you believe in deterrence.
But the bottom line is our justice system is supposed to take freedom away from this person.
It's not supposed to torture them.
And going to where I went, Chino and Twin Towers, that's torture.
Now, I'm not blaming that on the COs
there. A lot of them are understaffed. There's not enough money there. It's a failing institution.
Both of them are failing institutions. If you look at other capitalistic first world countries,
you don't see what we have in our prisons and jail. And a lot of it has to do with public
perception. Yeah. I don't know how they go about fixing it at this point because
obviously the prison populations are getting bigger and bigger. And in those populations,
they're getting more and more segregated. And you get into this situation where there are
certain demographics of that criminal base that are just going to do... They're straight criminals.
They're not interested in being rehabilitated. They're in there. They're going to be there for a while and they're going to do what
they're going to do. But there's a much larger segment, in my opinion, that is there doing their
time, trying to get by, maybe made a mistake. And what I think is scary about the prison system is
we need to be able to rehabilitate those people that are maybe nonviolent offenders that are
trying to turn their life around. But the system is maybe holding them down and not letting them
escape it, which is one, a burden on taxpayer money and a bit on the States and on the
Fed. And two, also holding these people in a system where they don't have a chance of getting out.
Right. And I don't, I don't know how to go. I don't know. I don't know if anybody knows how
to go about solving that, but it's a, it's a big problem in this country.
Well, we can start at the DA level and we've done that in Los Angeles. We got rid of Jackie Lacey, and we elected a new DA who has the principles that most people in Los Angeles believe with. We've gotten bail reform. We're getting rid of private prisons. I think the new administration just put some type of federal regulations out, or maybe complete, I don't know exactly, but limiting private prisons. I mean, so many people, like, do you guys know anybody who's been to jail or prison?
Sure.
For a significant time besides for just a DUI or something?
My best friend went to prison.
She had a eight-month-old and they put her away for about a year and a half.
And not only did she have an eight-month-old, she had two other children too.
So three children.
She was a mother.
She went to jail for selling jeans.
Something about selling jeans and the goods weren't delivered.
And the way they treated her, she's beautiful.
And she writes about it in her book called Fuck My Life, was despicable.
And it just stripped her of everything, exactly what you're saying.
And it was torture.
And thank God she got out.
She got to write about it.
And she's living a beautiful life now.
But from what she's told me, the prison system is fucked.
We also have, I mean, rest his soul now,
he just recently passed.
But our nephew's father, he had been,
he went in the prison system young.
And he's been on the show and told the story. But he had been, you know, he'd been in San Quentin, he'd been in Folsom, he'd been in Chino, like prison system young and he's been on the show and told the
story, but he had been, you know, he'd been in San Quentin, he'd been in Folsom, he'd been in Chino,
like his whole, and from a very young age. And he got to the point where he, like he had been,
it's, you know, it's called getting violated, violated like the maximum amount of times where
eventually they had to get him out. But they spent the greater part of his adult life going
through the system and basically just not being able to get out because of how the system operates.
And he was, he was an addict, right? So he was not necessarily a violent offender, but like
drugs just overtook and he just spent the majority of his life in the prison system.
Right. You just hit on something that's really important for people to understand
is that most, a great deal of people, and I don't have the exact stats, that are in the prison
system and jail systems are there on violations. They're there because they violated their terms of probation or parole. And so they go back in.
And the probation and paroles, you can violate those without even committing a crime, or you can
violate them by committing a misdemeanor, not showing up to your appointment,
testing dirty for marijuana. Especially if you're an addict.
Drinking, you're an addict or whatever. And you can do them for other or showing up someone who has a restraining order against something like that.
And so that's a lot of resources and a lot of, you know, I always think of it as like,
we're a capitalistic society, right? You're entrepreneurs. You believe in the capitalist
system, right? So I think we should follow the money here. And I don't think it's good to have us have the highest population of prisoners in the entire world. I mean, that's
a huge brain drain. That's a huge economic resource. And I know why it's happening. It's
because there's money flowing towards these prison systems. The prison unions are very strong.
It's all these things, but that is not a very smart allocation of capital. We need these
people to be rehabilitated while lowering the crime rate. And we need to adhere to our bill
of rights and not be torturing people. Don't tell me that you don't have a responsibility not to
torture somebody. If somebody is in your custody, they should not be tortured on a regular basis.
I don't care if it's Jeffrey Epstein or it's a white-collar criminal, the worst person you could possibly imagine.
Either we believe in these spiritual principles or we don't.
Do you believe in torturing people?
Is your answer yes when they're really bad?
And if that's the answer, then I think you need to check yourself.
It's also great.
What I consider really bad, you might not consider really bad.
Right.
So that's hard too.
It's like you can't torture some and not all of them.
Because what is really, really bad?
I think there obviously needs to be a deterrent for people that are going to commit violent
crimes against regular citizens, right?
Like if you're murdering people or hurting people, like there needs to be a deterrent.
There needs to be a penalty.
If you're harming children,
like I don't have a lot of sympathy for you there.
I've been very vocal on the show.
Like there needs to be deterrent.
But, you know, we have people in the prison system
that are in there for things like marijuana
that are now legal.
Or selling jeans.
Or like you can go get marijuana anywhere in LA, right?
And there's people that are in the prison system
for 20, 30, 40 years now for nonviolent crimes.
That to me is a waste of resources,
a waste of capital.
It's also people are doing this normally now
and the people that are sitting in the system,
because maybe they were a few years before it became legal.
To me, that's crazy.
To me, federally, people should look across the board
and say, okay, maybe those people shouldn't be sitting
and wasting federal resources and state resources for nonviolent crimes. Yeah, okay, like maybe those people shouldn't be sitting and being in wasted, wasting federal resources and state resources when for nonviolent crimes.
Yeah, no, I agree.
But I don't know the answers for the other violence. I mean, for,
there's gotta be some deterrent for violent crime.
No, of course. And I mean, taking your freedom away for ever is a pretty big deterrent,
but I don't think being shanked by a gang member should ever be something the state condones.
Sure.
No, of course not.
And if that's a high probability of that, then they condone it.
And I don't care what you did.
So, yeah.
It's a messed up system, and we've got to do something about it.
And it seems like we are doing something about it.
It seems like the tables are turning, and people are starting to realize.
Because you can't have this many people in prisons and jail and not have people like you guys who are directly affected i mean you just told me two people that are close to you that are have had
these horrible experiences yeah it's wild right can you on a micro level tell us what kind of
torture you're talking about are you talking about they take your food away or they hurt you like
what are the actual micro things they're doing that is torture? Well, what happens in prisons is the,
in jails and prisons, but is that the guards will put you in dangerous situations. So if you're in
there on a sex crime, even if you just been charged with one and not convicted of one,
they'll put you in there with a gang, which is guaranteed to get hurt. Or they'll go in there
and they'll take everything you have and throw it away under a search.
Or they'll be on the yard and they'll allow someone to beat you up until they break in.
It's just everything like that.
I mean, it's well documented.
People get raped in prisons and shanked and all kinds of stuff.
It's just a very dangerous place.
Just very, very dangerous.
How long were you in prison the first time?
Or jail, I should say right not prison yeah i mean my total time in jail was only like boy now i think it wasn't long at all
it was about a month and a half i did jail in the front and back into prison a month and a half
seems like long though to me like that's a each day seems like it's dripping water yeah i
mean oh in jail you put it when in jail i was in a pod what's called a pod and that's where a bunch
it's like a dorm and that was crazy and dangerous and just wild you literally have you have a
station where the cops are and there's two of them in there and they're watching a bunch of pods like
like watching a fishbowl and you know each one of those pods could have up to 90, 100 guys or something. And so they're
watching each of them. So clearly stuff happens that they can't do anything about or they don't
have the manpower to deal with it. Like what? I'm so curious.
In the book, in Straight Pepper Diet, I wrote about that kid, Steven, who was in there. He was
a man child. He was a mentally disabled or mentally challenged,
severe. I think he was severely autistic and he was accused of some child molestation. And I think
he was maybe 18 years old, but was like 11 year old mentally or six years old or something. And
he was raped by a big, bad gang guy. The guy literally just took a bunk bed, put sheets up so the cops couldn't see it
and he took them back there and raped them.
I mean, it's just horrible.
Stuff like that.
Nothing ever happened of it.
You know, if you told on the guy or reported it,
you'd be subject to retaliation.
The politics in jail amongst the prisoners
seem crazy too.
That seems like a whole,
I feel like that's another book that you have to write.
Like the politics with... Yeah, I don't know enough about it to write anything. I wasn't in there long
enough, but I mean, it's funny. My wife was saying today, she's like, you need to write a book about
Jimmy. Everybody loves Jimmy. Do you remember Jimmy, my cellmate in Chino? Everybody loves
Jimmy. And Jimmy is just this amazing character. People ask me, do you keep in touch with Jimmy?
I'm like, no, Jimmy's a very dangerous person.
I do not keep in touch with Jimmy.
Jimmy was this guy who I was cellmates with.
He was a 18-year-old kid, high on speed, and robbed a, up in Big Bear, and robbed a
pawn shop and got put in jail for 20 years or something.
And he was 18 years old. I remember him telling me he's 18 years old and he looks at the calendar
on the wall and he looks at a whole decade of his life. He was on a football team at Big Bear. He
was a troubled kid, but never done anything. But he was on meth and got high and did this horrible,
horrible thing. And he was in there and he was kind of my protector, but he was, he was like my protector, the way that a wild tiger
that might turn on you could be your protector. Like hopefully he doesn't turn on you, but you
know, he was clearly a total addict. And he was one of these guys was in the system that just like,
it's so sad to see a guy. I mean, the chance of that guy ever recuperating from those years in
prison. To answer your question, he was, I was in Chino in an area
where gang dropouts had been. And on his last day of when he was about to get out on his first
turn, which is after like 10 years after an attempted murder charge, he was told to murder
a fellow gang member. And he refused to do so. So they attacked him and he got jumped out. And once
you've been jumped out of gang in prison,
you can't be in general population
because you'll get killed.
So that was his story.
And he was just, I mean, he's one of the best characters.
I wish I came up with him fictionally
because he was so brilliant.
How do you avoid the gang system in prison
if you're there for a long stint?
Like, it sounds like the strategy would be like, keep to yourself, but you almost can't in a way. And so you almost like
get for it's from what I've seen and what I've heard, it sounds like you get sucked in. Like,
how do you avoid all of that? If you want to just do your time and get out? I don't,
cause that's the thing that's scary, right? It's like, yeah. The only experience I have with that
and this very limited experience was I was the big book thumper guy. I literally had a big book. I meditated and prayed and read my big book all day long.
And I didn't fuck around.
I didn't get money in there.
I didn't do any favors for anybody.
I never ate anything from commissary.
I didn't play any of the games anybody plays.
And I still had some run-ins, careful, close calls.
So it was almost like being the preacher probably in a
in a jail that's smart that you didn't get commissary because that seems like that's a big
a big thing in there yeah i knew that smart i just did not very very smart yeah just didn't do it so
how long did you you said you spent a month and a half in jail and then how long were you in prison? A hundred and twenty days, I think.
And what did it feel like when you got out?
I'm assuming you weren't drinking in.
You weren't drinking.
No, I've been sober for two years when I got out.
Got it.
The only reason I got out, well, that's the story in the book.
But it was through the 12 steps and the support of the people in 12 steps is why I got out without having to go back in.
Because I was under a 90-day evaluation where I could have had to do more time, years more time.
And I don't think I could have survived any more significant time in there.
So when I got out, I went to stay with my ex-girlfriend who was also a criminal defense lawyer in West LA, not too far from here.
I just remember walking down the street and drinking a Starbucks and just being like, this is the best fucking Starbucks I've ever drank in my life.
Like, oh my God.
And just like walking her dog and just looking around and my history or what I deal with
on a regular basis.
So it wasn't like I came out and went, everything's glorious now.
I'm a two-strike felon, registered sex offender, disbarred lawyer.
Things are cheery.
But if you're in 12 steps, you know one thing is
that we take things one day at a time, one minute, one second at a time when we have to.
And so at that moment, I remember being the happiest, maybe some of the most joy I'd ever
felt in my life. And one of the reasons is because I was free of addiction at that point.
One thing about jail is it's a great rehab, especially if you did it the way I did it.
Like I didn't eat, like I said, I didn't eat commissary. I didn't smoke cigarettes.
I didn't drink any of the alcohol that was in there.
I did pushups and prayed.
That's what I did in prison.
Smart, really smart.
So what do you, did you stop drinking for good after that?
The night of my arrest was my last drink, July 26, 2003.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
That's cool.
For people that are struggling with addiction,
that are listening to this story and hoping to turn their life around like what do you think it
was I mean outside of obviously going to prison and all these terrible things but like was there
was there a mental unlock or some tool that you found outside of 12 steps that was like okay this
is how I'm going to turn it all around like was was there an epiphany was there or is it just day
by day and like how would you for somebody that is struggling with addiction like what would you
tell them it's obviously since then multiple author successful
like your life's obviously you're married like everything seems to be going great now oh well
good question I hate when people say good question because it makes all of your questions been good
who's better me huh you're both very good just kidding well I guess what i'm what i'm trying to get at is i
think that whenever we do these episodes we get a lot of great messages from the audience either
they have a family member or a friend that they turn on and it's like the idea here is like i want
to show people that there is light at the end of the tunnel and that you can turn your life around
and if there is an unlock that you could pass on to someone obviously we're going to link out to
all 12 steps and you know all the programs. But is there something that you have found that has helped you on your journey? One thing that probably separates me
from a lot of other sponsors in the 12-step rooms, in all the different programs that I sponsor in,
is that I really am into the power of 12 steps and the product that you will become. And what I mean by that is,
imagine if you're competing for a job with somebody. Again, we live in capitalistic society,
right? You're competing with a job someone. I tell my sponsor, imagine that you're you,
you're drinking every night, smoking cigarettes, waking up barely in time to get to work.
Okay, that's you now.
Now imagine you're competing with this dude.
Sober 10 years, never late, doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, takes care of his body, has a spiritual program, believes in honesty, integrity, and hard work.
Who do you want to compete with?
Whether it's athleticism, whether it's service, whether it's work, whatever you're doing,
you're going to be very powerful as a recovered addict. So instead of thinking of it, you hear a
lot in the rooms of like, oh, I'm a piece of shit. And I'm, I'm by the grace of God, I don't drink and smoke anymore. I'm like, I'm not into that.
I'm into, this is a self-improvement program, whether people, a lot of people say it's not.
It is.
12 Steps are a self-improvement program that involves spirituality.
And just be honest with yourself.
Who do you want to be? If you really like drinking and you're willing
to die young, maybe commit horrible acts and have liver problems and all these things, if you're
that serious of a drinker, then be honest and say, okay, I'm cool with it. I'm going to die like that.
But be honest with yourself, who you are and what you want. It was very easy to me. I never wanted
to be an addict. I always wanted to achieve certain goals. I've always been an athlete. The idea
of smoking and drinking and being an athlete is ridiculous. That's probably, I don't know if that's
a- It's an amazing answer.
I hope it helps somebody out there listening because it's just, I just work, I work with a
lot of sober people, especially since COVID happened. I've sponsored a lot of people through
all over the country, which I normally don't do because you can do it through Zoom.
It's heartbreaking, but it's also like you just see there's so many people out there struggling
with different things. And man, it's so powerful to get control of your life.
Do you see more alcohol, more pills, more hard drugs? What do you see the most?
I see alcohol, cigarettes, and sex almost all the time.
Maybe a little pills here and there,
but that probably has more to do with me than them.
Yeah.
Because they see my story and they know I was never a pill popper.
Yeah.
And I didn't do heroin or coke or any of that.
I did a little coke here and there,
but never to the point of addiction.
So that's it.
Your new book, tell us all about it and what we
can expect. So the Paul's graph revelation is where straight pepper diet left off. So if you
haven't read straight pepper diet, please read that. I promise you, you'll find it entertaining.
You won't put it down. It's very entertaining and honest.
And so this one's written very similarly, but this is the book that takes you from, okay, now that you've survived the worst scenario, how do you move forward? How do you live a sober life? How do you move forward? this incredibly daunting label now. I'm a registered sex offender, two-strike felon,
disbarred lawyer, right? How can you mentally, emotionally, financially, physically move on from
that? And it's like my other book, it's a day-to-day first-person account of that of just
like, at first it was just straight up survival. Like Like how the hell does a guy like me get a job? Like who the hell is going to hire me? Like coming to this podcast
10 years ago, I would have been freaked out. I've been like, the people at the desk are going to
do a run a check on me. I'm going to get in trouble for even being here. Like it's scary to
even be and to have these labels. And now I've moved on to the point of where I rarely even think about
it. I am 100% okay with the truth of what happened and where I am now and what I do with my life,
but it wasn't an easy journey. This book takes how I got a job. I ended up getting a job. I'll
tell one thing that's in the book. I ended up getting a job in a fortune 500 company
as a registered sex offender, which is mind-boggling. And the way it
happened was mind-boggling. People are probably listening to this thinking the registered sex
offender thing. I should probably clarify that. The reason I'm a registered sex offender
is because when I broke into that massage parlor, the DA opined that I was there to commit a rape.
In California, we have laws that prevent evidence of alcohol being used as a
defense to your mental state. So if I'd have been on crack that night, I wouldn't be here talking
to you. I'd still be a lawyer, but because you can't present that defense or you can, but only
in a limited way. And the fact that I am who I am and was risking 20 years in prison, I pled guilty to assault with
intent to commit rape. And even though the guy, it was a man and you can't rape a man,
they said that when I broke into the place, my intent was to commit a rape. So that's why I'm
a registered sex offender. So it didn't have to do with the massage person. It had to do with the
guy. The massage parlor was closed. There was nobody in there. It was three in the morning. I just thought maybe
they thought you were going there to the
massage parlor to
have sex with one of the girls
there. So it was actually about the guy.
The VA thought that
I was going to
break into the massage parlor with the intent to commit a rape
on a masseuse, even though I
stopped and got $100 and I was out of my mind
and everything. And so that's why. Also, and also I could be wrong on this,
but because you're a lawyer, I feel like you had a much bigger target on your back as well.
Well, you're going to make an example of somebody that has a law degree that's past the bar that is
committing crimes. Yeah, I agree with that, especially since it gave me a chance with my DUI.
And I had the same experience with DUI. I was very well connected in Riverside. I worked for one of the biggest law firms there,
and I was an up and comer, and they threw the book at me. And I think in Los Angeles,
people will argue this, but I think it was actually a bad move on my part to hire one.
I had one of the best lawyers in LA.
Oh, yeah. Makes you a bigger target.
I think the DA really was looking forward to getting some publicity and trying this case.
It's crazy though, because all your struggles have made you this incredible author with two books.
I mean, that's cool to look at.
That's got to be a good feeling.
I think what we love about this story, especially for people that are maybe not as far along on the
path of recovery as you are, is it's a story of redemption. Even though you have all of these
marks on your record, you're still functioning in society and still a successful human being. And I think
that's what people need to hear is like, it's not, there is a light at the tunnel if you work for it
and you do the steps and you, and you get into recovery. Like, it's not like, Hey, you have all
these labels and your life's over. You can turn it around. Oh yeah. I mean, my life, I mean,
I have sponsors that are like celebrities that like celebrities that weren't celebrities when they started on the road to recovery.
Successful lawyers that had been not able to get their bar license because they were addicts.
I mean, it's just amazing.
But my life, so everybody has to start where they are.
Obviously, it's a little different when you start where I was, given the things.
But most people don't come to me with these type of situation. They come to me before that, thank God. So yeah, just totally. I mean, to give you
an example of my life now, it's like I'm married to my wife. I'm absolutely in love with her and
I'm just so grateful for her. I live in this beautiful house in Highland Park. I play golf
twice a week. I'm in the best health I've ever been. I'm 50 years old
and I'm as good a shape now as I was when I was 24 and middleweight kickboxer and I get to help
people. What a life. Yeah. Feel free to come back anytime. Where can everyone buy both of your
books? I personally read your book on my iPhone when I couldn't sleep at night. So I know you can
get it there, but where else? It's on Amazon. I think we've exclusively gone Amazon. You can go to my website,
josephwnouse.com, N-A-U-S-S as in Sam, and you can read the first chapter of both of them,
I think. And you can go to Audible. They're both on Audible if you like audio. I voiced both of
them. And yeah, you can read them there. We'll link it all out. Please do.
What's your Instagram handle? It's josephwnouse, but you're yeah, you can read them there. We'll link it all out. Please do. What's your Instagram handle?
It's Joseph W. Knauss,
but you're just going to find golf swings there.
Okay, okay.
Okay, and then my last question is,
if someone is struggling with addiction
and they're listening to this podcast,
what's the resource that they should go to
if you were to recommend one?
Ooh, listening to this podcast,
they want a resource.
Well, they can go to any, they can just go to any, whatever their. Well, they can go to any, they can
just go to any, whatever their addiction is, they can go to the 12-step version of that and go find
a meeting. If you're not at that point and you want some information and you're not sold on 12
steps, I would highly recommend you read either of my books. And I would also recommend that you
read the book called The Pleasure Trap, which sets out the scientific basis for addiction. Yeah. That's
probably what I would recommend. Thank you so much for taking the time.
Can I ask you guys a question? Sure.
What's it like living in Austin? Because my wife and I are just like smog, traffic.
Why am I paying this much for a house when I don't drive to work?
You think they're coming out? Can we convince you here?
Not necessarily Austin, but maybe some other places, a little more green.
Well, I think there's a lot.
There's an assortment of decisions.
And Lauren and I did that episode on why we moved to Texas.
But the biggest thing is we have a young daughter now.
She's a year old.
And we wanted a place where we had a little bit more open space, green, nature.
And I think the one beautiful, I mean, there's a lot of beautiful things about Austin.
But Austin in particular compared to some other places in Texas like you get all that nature
you get the lakes you get the rivers you get you know the greenery amazing food amazing people I
have not missed one thing about California it's very idyllic like it's very it's it's what I
envisioned when I was like was little for a family it's very serene and there is it's kind of like a
sanctuary and we're in the suburbs you know we got I didn't i wasn't i wasn't feeling that in la the air is so crisp over there that's like the biggest thing
like just breathe fresh air yeah even we just had that storm there we were there with the crazy
life is so chaotic so to be able to slow down and take walks in the morning and and also it's
amazing because it's two hours ahead so by the time i've done all the wellness things, I want to do a cold shower, a walk,
had sat and had coffee, read my book, all these things.
And it's 11 o'clock.
It's nine o'clock in California.
So that's been absolutely fucking amazing to be able to be two hours ahead.
Yeah.
And even with the storm, we were just there.
And obviously there's an infrastructure issue in Texas with the power going out.
It was cold as shit and the roads are all icy.
But even during that, people from California and Mexico were thinking about coming back to
California. I'm like, no, even with the storm, I still like Austin better. It's great. And you
know what it feels like right now? It's such a growth city, which I'm sure some people in Texas
dislike, but it feels like there's just so much energy in the city and it feels like so much is
happening there. And to me, I started to feel a little bit more stagnant in LA and bigger cities. But it feels like there's just so much energy in the city and it feels like so much is happening
there.
And to me, I started to feel a little bit more stagnant in LA and bigger cities.
And so I like that we're in nature, have space, and we'll also have the kind of pace of this
feels like it's a boom town, like it's growing.
Oh, okay.
We're going to fly out there.
Come on, check it out.
Because I don't know anything about Texas.
I've only flown through there a few times.
I did have a friend who was in Austin. He said, Austin's great, but just don't know anything about Texas. I've only flown through there a few times. I did a friend who was in Austin.
He said, Austin's great, but just remember you're surrounded by Texas.
That's what he always said to me.
But I was like, because I never thought that it was green, but I don't know anything about it.
All I see is they have a tournament, PGA tournament every year in Austin that they, with the bridge in the background.
Yeah, they have a great, actually, that's really funny that you say that.
They have, the thing I keep hearing about it is their golf community.
It's like everywhere.
I love pretty much everything about Texas.
Really?
Pretty much everything.
I mean, it's been, it's been great.
If you come out, you got to let us know.
We also grew up here too.
So it was nice to have a change of pace, right?
Like we were from Southern California.
I had some businesses in Riverside actually in Corona.
Oh, really?
Yeah, once upon a time.
And so like we felt like, hey,, California is always going to be here.
It does this.
But to have a little bit of a change of pace and do something different, I think it's good
for people to change once in a while.
Yeah.
I'm definitely going to fly out there and we're going to check it out.
Yeah, you got to check it out.
You have a two-year-old?
One-year-old.
One-year-old?
Yep.
It's fun.
Cool.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
That's fun.
Thank you so much for taking the time.
We will link out your books and come back anytime because I feel like there's so many
questions that I could have still asked you on my list.
Maybe the next one we do with the studio in Texas.
Yeah.
Thanks for appeasing my curiosity.
I'm sure people are curious about a couple of things.
Taylor, don't you get any ideas back there about the massage parlor?
Taylor's not even there.
He already left.
He's getting out in his car. Oh, is he? Okay. Yeah, no, they're rating him
on a daily basis now, so don't go. Don't go. Cheers. Do you want to win a copy of Joseph's
book? It is good. It is juicy. It is to the point. All you have to do is tell us your favorite part
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