The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - The Gift Of Forgiveness With Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt - Inspiring Stories from Those Who Have Overcome the Unforgivable

Episode Date: March 3, 2020

#251: On this episode we sit down with Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt to discuss The Gift Of Forgiveness. This is Katherine's second appearance on the show. Here first was Ep. 87. For her second appearance we are discussing how to forgive and the potential benefits of forgiving. We also discuss how to respect other people's process in forgiving and how we can all potentially benefit for reserving a place to forgive others and move forward with our lives.  To connect with Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt click HERE To listen to Katherine's first TSC appearance click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by OUAI OUAI was created by celebrity hairstylist Jen Atkin. Ouai crowdsourced and tested these formulas with their community and used real customer feedback to develop these shampoos and conditioners. With Biotin to strengthen hair, chia seed to thicken and volumize and keratin to reduce frizz and flyaways. All color safe, sulfate free, cruelty free, and sustainable. Shop new shampoos and conditioners at THEOUAI.COM and don't forget to use code SKINNY to receive 3 FREE samples with your order.  This episode is brought to you by THRIVE MARKET. We use Thrive for our online grocery delivery on a weekly basis and we also now get our wine at Thrive! They provide the highest quality products and ingredients delivered straight to our door with unbeatable prices.  Be sure to grab our deal by going to to https://thrivemarket.com/skinny to select your preferred memberships package and start saving today! This episode is brought to you by RITUAL Forget everything you thought you knew about vitamins. Ritual is the brand that’s reinventing the experience with 9 essential nutrients women lack the most. If you’re ready to invest in your health, do what I did and go to www.ritual.com/skinny  Your future self will thank you for taking Ritual: Consider it your ‘Lifelong-Health-401k’. Why put anything but clean ingredients (backed by real science) in your body? Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. the vitamins and minerals they need on a daily basis, so Ritual created a smarter vitamin with the nine essential ingredients women lack most. Go to ritual.com slash skinny today to choose clean ingredients backed by science. Sign up now at ritual.com slash skinny. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to The Skinny Confidential, him and her. A lot of people, and I think for myself included, forgiveness is an ongoing process. It's not a one and done thing.

So let's say it took me seven years to forgive somebody. That doesn't mean that after that time necessarily I'm going to be done with it. I'm never going to have blips with it ever again. It just means that I feel like I maybe have a hold on that specific situation. And if I, you know, I also say in the book that if I have moments where I feel like I need to go back and work more on that, I try to be gentle with myself. And I encourage everyone to do that just because forgiveness is really challenging and it's really deep for a lot of people and it's really hard and emotional. And so I think to be gentle with yourself in that process and understanding it is also important. Here we go. Here we go. Let's see if we can get through the intro. That clip was from our guest of the show today, Katherine Schwarzenegger. On this episode, we are talking all about

forgiveness. My name is Michael Bostic. I'm a serial entrepreneur and brand builder. Most recently, the CEO of the Dear Media Podcast Network. And across from me, finally, back in the studio, my wife, drumroll please, Taylor, add some music, Lauren Everts, Bostic, the skinny confidential. Bostic, I don't know about after last night. I just planted that baby in you. I'm pretty sure we're both Bostics now, so you're going to have to decide if you want to be involved or

not. Okay. Well, yes, I'm back. Michael did the last two intros by himself. Did you guys miss me? I kept them short and sweet and people wrote in and said, I love you doing the intros, Michael. They said they've never heard better intros. Those were fake accounts. You know what? I'm surprised that you can talk through the mask that you have on right now. Listen, I saw a couple of sniffles in this office. There's a lot of people in here between DBA and Dear Media. And then I saw some people sick. I just changed the whole work from home policy to accommodate.

Honestly, everybody was excited because I changed the policy. And they're like, wow, we get some more. We get like work from home days. And I said, well, listen, it's not. I hope that's good as the employer. But I mostly did it for selfish reasons because I can't stand when people come in sick and get me sick. And so just change the whole policy. Like, you know, don't come in. Yeah. You know, what was interesting three weeks into my postpartum journey, Michael decided to get sick. So after I gave birth, I had to hear for about, you know,

a hundred hours about how sick you were and how sniffly you were. Let me tell you something. No, what happened was I took, you know, the hundred hours about how sick you were and how sniffly you were. Let me tell you something. That was fun. No, what happened was I took, you know, the full week off the first week when the baby came. Then I came in each day the next week, just for an hour or two, just to keep everybody on point. And then finally going into the third week, I was like, I'm back full time. I came in for one day.

I'm convinced, Taylor, I'm convinced this was you. You're patient zero. You came in sick and then you got everybody else sick. And I had to literally fucked my whole rhythm up. He's literally smiling. I can see it in the reflection. And he doesn't realize that we can see him in the reflection. So it was for sure him.

I know it was you, Taylor. You know that scene from The Godfather when he like kisses Fredo and he's like, I know it was you. That's how I feel, Taylor. Taylor, there's nothing worse than coming into the office sick and sweaty and getting everyone else sick. That's unfair. You know what?

And he's always like moving weird plates and dishes around and touching things. Yeah. One time I opened his drawer and he had a whole fucking color. He sat in there all dirty. So anyways, guys, we're back. We're back in the studio, back to regular programming. You know, we batched a few there. So, you know, some of you may have been frustrated. Hey, this is not exactly current, but we're current here. We're back. Everything's smooth again. Anyways, guys, we have a good friend of ours on the show today. Catherine Schwarzenegger. This is her second appearance on the show. She was a guest really early on, back before we had the studio, back before we had Dear Media,

back when we were literally carrying equipment in a suitcase. We did record it in this same office that we're in now, but it was a little bit more ghetto back then. We had to kind of piece all the equipment together. Now, we're professional. We're professional operation, Lauren. So many of you may be familiar with Katherine Schwarzenegger. She's an author of multiple books, animal lover and advocate, ambassador for Best Friends Animal Society. We did a podcast here with her together with Pedigree.

So she's many things. And also married to Chris Pratt and the daughter of Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver. And she's on the show today talking all about her new book. It's incredible. It's called The Gift of Forgiveness, inspiring stories from those who have overcome the unforgivable. Guys, with that, Catherine, welcome back to the Skinny Confidential Him and Her Show. This is the Skinny Confidential Him and Her. Can you bump my headphone up a little bit? Come on, you know the drill back there. I just want to know how you find time to write a book because it's not a joke to write a book. No.

At all. And you've written two? Four. This is my fourth. Four? Yeah. I did my first one in college, which was amazing, but also very challenging with like classes, of course.

And I did my second one when I graduated college. And then I did my third one, which was when I graduated college. And then I did my third one, which was my children's book. And then this is my fourth. What's your favorite to write? I mean, the children's book was a lot harder than I had anticipated. Really? Yeah. Because having written two before that that were adult books, I kind of went into the children's book thinking that it would be really easy because it's a children's book. But there are just so many things that you don't think about when writing a children's book, like what specific words children respond to versus how we speak to each other. So that one, I had to do like 20 something drafts of the text

of that book. But then after you know what the text of it, the illustrations are really fun. So that makes it and the book tour for that's really fun. But I think for me, this, the forgiveness book, I think for me is the most exciting just because I feel like my hope with it is that it will help a lot of people in their journeys in their lives. And the difference with this one is my other topics were very specific, like for graduates, for people who are interested in body image, for children, this one, none of us get through life without dealing with forgiveness. So it's for everybody. Everyone needs this book. Thank you. I mean, forgiveness is a hard thing.

You got to put your ego aside. Yeah. So I want to know if there was like a time in the morning, and you know how I like to get specific, you wrote, or was it just you wrote when you felt like it? Mornings for me, I'm an early riser. So mornings for me were essential. Like I usually started, I would walk my dog in the morning. And then my writing process was I'd wake up, take Maverick on a walk, come back and just put myself in my office from like eight to three. And if I needed a break, I'd take a walk around the block, but- Eight to three rows. Yeah. And then it would change, of course, for people's interviews. Cause I interviewed every single person in that book.

So of course you have to be flexible with people's schedules as you know. And it was really important to me that I, you know, worked with people's schedules if they wanted to meet in person, if they wanted over the phone, whatever they wanted to make them comfortable, because I'm asking them to talk about something that's, you know, not super fun to talk about most of the time. And also it's requires, you know, being really raw and vulnerable and talking to me about things that are really challenging and emotional for a lot of the people. So it was an incredible experience. So it kind of shifted a little bit, my schedule per se shifted with, you know, the interviews and things like that. But who surprised you out of the book? Like who was someone that you thought, Oh my God, this story is so incredible. And this is my favorite

one. I don't have a favorite one per se. But I would say Sebastian Marquine, who is Pablo Escobar's son. He was I went into it not knowing what to expect, because I think in America, we've watched these shows on Pablo Escobar. We've learned about him through movies and documentaries and things like that. life's work to forgiveness and changing everything in Columbia and going to each of his father's victims and asking for forgiveness on behalf of his father. That was incredible to me. And the way he spoke about it, he was so eloquent when he spoke about it and spoke about it with such honesty and realness and very aware of what we know about his father and also what his father has done, but also speaking about it in a way where he's the son of his father and has incredible love for his father, but also understands that there's a lot of forgiveness that needs to be done there.

Quick break to talk about ritual. Surprise, surprise. I am a vitamin snob. You know this. I have told you that I obsessively researched what vitamin I would be taking every single day. And that ended up being ritual for the last two years. I was taking the essential for women, got pregnant, didn't know I was pregnant for seven weeks, and then switched to their prenatal. And I could not be happier with it. First of all, it tastes like lemon, which you know, I love more than life. In fact, I love it so much. I hope Michael gets a tattoo of a lemon, but that's another story. The essential for women actually tastes like peppermint. So you can't go wrong. You're either going to get lemon or

peppermint. So when I researched Ritual, I found they had no weird additives. They didn't have synthetic fillers like most vitamins have. And there was no shady extras, like nasty rat extras that you can't pronounce the name of in these vitamins. You know what you're getting. You don't need to feel like you're being duped. They give it to you straight up. And if you don't believe me, go head to their website. Everything is so clear. It's so seamless. It's straight to the point. This is also really important because I feel like I've gotten this question via DM. They have this delayed release, no nausea capsule. So it's gentle on your stomach. So, you know, sometimes when you take a vitamin and it makes you feel like sick and gross,

Ritual doesn't do that. That's a big one for me. Okay. Big bun. Ritual is vegan certified, non-GMO, gluten-free and allergen-free. Tons of amazing ingredients. It's got iron, D3, boron. Go check them out. They have the full list, like I said, on their site. Daily changes can lead to big results, so start small today. Ritual's offering all TSC Him and Her listeners 10% off your first three months. Try it out, guys. Satisfaction's guaranteed. Go to ritual.com slash skinny to start your ritual today.

That's 10% off during the first three months at ritual.com slash skinny. After interviewing all these people, was there a common theme of their process of forgiveness? It's funny because every single person that I talk to about this book, I think especially because forgiveness is such a complex topic, wants like a quick crash course on how to practice forgiveness.

And what I tell every single person is that forgiveness is different to every single person. Every single person has a different relationship with forgiveness. What it means for you is different than what it means for me and what it means for Lauren and et cetera. So everyone's process is very different and we need to understand that and respect that and know that for some people they can forgive in an instant like Chris Williams in the book forgave in the instant and other people it takes years and months weeks, and then other people never get there and that's okay. So the common theme in the book was

definitely that it's a different process for everybody. But I would also say the most common theme with every single person who's able to practice forgiveness is that when you're able to practice it, it's a huge gift that you give yourself, not to another person, which was a huge change and a shift for me. Because I think for me, I grew up and I think a lot of us think that forgiveness, when you say I forgive you, it's a gift that you're giving the other person. Like, I'm going to forgive you. That's mostly for yourself, right? I'm going to forgive you for saying that your hair hurts when every facet on my body hurts.

I'm never going to live this down. You will never live that down. It's unbelievable. So I think it's just shifting that and looking at it as work that you really just do for yourself in a process you do for yourself. Because a lot of people struggle with forgiveness, thinking that they will, by forgiving, you betray your own pain and hurt in that process. And so if you shift it and look at it as something that you're actually doing for yourself, it

sometimes helps people in their journey with it. So let me ask you this, and I'd be remiss to not ask this. You're a public person, public life, and you wrote this book about forgiveness. In your own personal life, when you think about your process for going through forgiveness, how do you start to process and say, okay, I'm going to start to forgive somebody? How does that manifest itself with you? Because like you said, I think it's different for everybody. Yeah, totally different for everybody. And actually, my own life experiences are what inspired me to write this book and each of my books before. For me, it's different with every situation. But it was interesting because when I decided to write this book, I became interested in the topic of forgiveness because I was struggling with it in my own life. And I had a

friend that I was trying to practice forgiveness with, and I was really struggling with it. And I went to church one day and heard a whole sermon on it. And I went to go try and find books and tools to help me in my own journey with forgiveness. And I felt that everything I found was very religious focused, which is great and okay, and really helpful to a lot of people. But I really wanted something that I felt was more giving me advice on, you know, everyday people's stories. When you say struggling with it, like how has that made it? Like, what was that? What was the impact on you? You're just... That I was, you know, it was years after I had had an argument with somebody and that I had a big falling out in my life and I was still struggling. I just couldn't get there. And

it was constantly like something was popping back up in my life. And I just felt like, you know, have I practiced forgiveness? And I honestly, to be honest with you, I thought that I had. And it wasn't until I actually started writing this book that I had moments of constantly feeling like being reminded, actually, you haven't forgiven. You're not done with that process. And for a lot of people, and I think for myself included, forgiveness is an ongoing process. It's not a one and done thing. So let's say it took me seven years to forgive somebody. That doesn't mean that after that time, necessarily, I'm going to be done with it. I'm never going to have blips with it ever again. It just means that I feel like I maybe have a hold on that specific situation. And if I, you know, I also say in the book that if I have moments where I feel like I need to go back and work more on that, I try to be gentle with myself. And I encourage everyone to do that just because

forgiveness is really challenging and it's really deep for a lot of people and it's really hard and emotional. And so I think to be gentle with yourself in that process and understanding it is also important. I have a lot of people in my life that I know, and I'm also going to refer to myself too, that sometimes when you can't forgive, it ends up turning into resentment. Yes. Did you notice that when you were writing the book that the people that maybe couldn't forgive as easily, like it did actually fester and turn into resentment? For sure. And I've actually noticed that with a lot of people in my life. Just I see a lot of people who are older than me. I look at them and I'm like, you're, you know, however old you are and you really have not done any work on forgiveness. And I see what that's like. They're very angry.

They hold on to that. It becomes, you know, much bigger than I think a lot of people realize it is. And it controls a lot of aspects of their lives, which is why in the book, you'll see a variety of different situations of people, you know, forgiving at various different points in their life. Some, a woman in the book forgave 30 years later. And I asked her, I was like, do you wish that you looked back on that and you forgave sooner? And she was like, no, it came at the exact perfect time for me and the exact time that I was ready for it. So you have to be patient with it is the thing that I've also realized is that, you know, some of us might look at someone and say like, you know, wow, it was 30 years ago. Are you really not over that yet? And it's like, it's different for everyone. And everyone has a different relationship with it and understanding

of it. And it's up to them how they want to handle it. You know, what's really helped me with forgiveness? Stoicism. Yeah. A lot. Yeah. I don't know if that if you found that anyone else said that, but there's any like specific philosophy that you found that's been helpful. Yeah, stoicism has really helped me with being able to forgive because it's like you can't control. Sometimes I think when I notice that I'm trying to control things, that's when I start to get resentful. So I think when I relinquish control, it opens up space for forgiveness.

Yeah. One of the women that I interviewed named Nadia Boltz-Weber, she is a pastor, but she does a lot of videos on forgiveness. And she did a video that really was impactful for me when she talked about it as taking your power back and cutting the chain off of being associated or owned by that pain or that incident or that hurt. And so kind of speaking what you're saying is just like not looking at it like this is something that's gonna control my life anymore, but looking at it like the emotions to that,

I'm gonna try and cut off and in my mind, cut off any attachment I have to whatever it was that happened or whatever the person is that you need to forgive. And I'm gonna take my power back in the situation because I wanna practice forgiveness for myself. Quick break to tell you about my latest. It has to do with Thrive Market, obviously.

So what I did is I went on and I bought Michael's favorite pretzels. They're the classic sea salt ones. I have them on my page. Okay. They're by Quinn. And then I also bought the Enjoy Life dark chocolate morsels. So good. And what you do is you melt the chocolate morsels over these non-GMO pretzels and it tastes

amazing. Pregnancy cravings are weird. What can I say? I even might've put a little lemon on top. You like can't go wrong with this situation. And then while you're in my curated store, you can just go ahead and pick up a tongue scraper. Not only is Thrive Market's tongue scraper insane, it's actually pure copper. So one, it's cute. And two, it's BPA free. Taylor got the one that's plastic and you don't want to do that. And you can scrape your tongue after you eat your chocolate lemon pretzels.

Yes, Lauren. Everything's cute. Everything's BPA free. But the biggest thing is everything is also 25 to 50% below retail when you shop on Thrive. So you're saving 25 to 50% on your order every time. And you're also saving yourself that pain in the ass trip to the grocery store. So here's the deal. Go to the Skinny Confidential Thrive Market curated page, pick up the pretzel situation, get a tongue scraper. Maybe you can pick up my favorite coconut flake cereal. Everything's there. It's ready to go. You can add it to your bag. And then

before you know it, it will be efficiently delivered to your door. There are three different membership options. We choose the $5 a month, which is basically only 60 bucks a year, and then get the savings of 25 to 50% below retail on every order. And also, because we love our listeners, get up to $20 of shopping credit when you join today at thrivemarket.com slash skinny. Again, that's thrivemarket.com slash skinny, and then cashing in on those savings. Again, thrivemarket.com slash skinny. Again, that's thrivemarket.com slash skinny, and then cashing in on those savings. Again, thrivemarket.com slash skinny. Let me ask you this, because I think there's a lot of similar to a lot of people in the book, especially people like Pablo Escobar's son, like some people, including you that have to figure out the path of forgiveness

in a public setting, right? Like, you know, if something happens, maybe not us anymore either, but if something happens to a normal person, that's life is not public, you know, if something happens, maybe not us anymore, either. But if something happens to a normal person, that's life is not public, you know, they can go through that process on their own without everybody else's opinion, right? Like maybe they have their close family and friends. But for for you, and for a lot of people in this book that have to go and find forgiveness, while the general public is constantly chiming in and saying, like, you should do this, you should do that. Like, how do you how do these people navigate? How do you navigate it? I mean, does it have an impact or not?

I think when you're, when it's a public situation, I think that there's certainly different pressures that would come into it that, you know, are a huge factor. And because people say like, oh, you shouldn't because this, or you should, because it's really like they don't, they're not there living that experience. Totally. A hundred percent. I fully relate to that. And I think that a lot of people in the book who've had public situations in their lives can relate to that as well. So I think that there's a little bit of a pressure factor there, but I don relate to that. And I think that a lot of people in the book who've had public situations in their lives can relate to that as well. So I think that there's a little bit of a pressure

factor there, but I don't think that it is necessarily something that prevents you from going through it if you're committed to doing the work on your own and in your own life. That's definitely not to say that people's thoughts and opinions and comments don't get to you. It makes it harder. It does for sure. Because I think a lot of people, and I noticed this with just comments on social media or however people think when they look at someone's life and choices in life,

whether it's what you're posting, how you're choosing to live your life, how you conduct your relationships, people always have thoughts on that. And for people to comment on it, not knowing at all about your healing process, about your intimate family process, your intimate relationships with people is really challenging for sure. I was very blessed to grow up in a situation where my mom and dad gave us kids very private

childhoods. And also because my mom grew up in a well-known family, was able to give us kids a lot of advice on how to handle and manage those kinds of things. Obviously, she didn't grow up with Instagram, but she definitely grew up with people making comments about certain things. And I think the most important thing is that you have a really great relationships with your core people that can be around you to support you and love you in that process and make sure that you don't get caught up in all of those unnecessary comments and people's

criticisms and unfair judgments of how you choose to handle your life. Tanya Brown, whose sister, Nicole Brown Simpson, you know, had their whole tragedy. She talks a lot about that, about, you know, the public and the trial having gone through that and how that dragged on her healing process and her family's healing process and how every single one of our family members handled the healing process of losing her sister in a very different way and how hers was actually delayed partially because of the fact that it was so public and there was so much attention on that. That was the biggest case ever. And so there was a huge amount of attention and focus on her family and also on her sister and obviously OJ Simpson. And still,

of course, there is attention on that anyway. But she talked a lot about that healing process. And then you have somebody like Scarlett Lewis, whose son, six-year-old son was shot in Sandy Hook shooting. And there's a huge amount of attention on her about how she's going to heal, how she's going to forgive. Is she going to forgive? Like, how do you go through that process? And she also has a son, another son, to be mindful of her healing process and how that's going to affect him. So you definitely do hear a lot of people in there who talk about having to deal with that in a public way, but mostly on a personal level. The Nicole Brown Simpson thing too, people don't realize, I think, that what you just said,

everyone in the family deals with it differently. And what that ends up doing is it creates dynamic within the family where then you need to almost forgive certain members of the family because everyone deals with it differently on their own. Yes. A hundred percent. Which is so wild. And I'm learning as I get older, like just because, you know, me and my sister grew up the same in my mind, we have completely different views of things. A hundred percent. Different narratives. It's so interesting. I think as you, I agree, as you get older and also I'm the oldest of four, as we all get older, my sister and I are 19 months apart and, you know, Patrick and Christopher, we're all super, super close. Like we're a very close group of siblings.

What's the farthest age gap, like from your youngest sibling? I'm eight years older than Christopher. Okay. But we all, like we all loved our childhood, but we all reflect on it in very different ways. You know, like, even my sister and I, very close in age, we have very different experiences of our childhood and growing up, different memories, different things that, you know, something that I might thought of was amazing, she might not have thought of was amazing. And that causes dynamic, though, within. Totally. It's crazy, though.

Yeah. No, it though within. Totally. It's, it's, it's crazy though. Yeah. Like it's, it's wild. It's very, and it also, my mom talked to me a lot about that because she was like, she would say, cause I would, especially growing up and you're like, wait, that wasn't amazing for you or wait, you thought that was amazing. I don't think that like, it's just so different. My mom was always like, you need to understand that everybody has a very different perspective on their life and their childhood and if you went out here and you saw a car accident and there were five people watching the car accident each one of those people would have a completely different recollection of what exactly happened in that car accident and it's just weird when it's family though because

you're like we're related like how did you not see the same thing i saw yeah it's frustrating it's the biggest thing i've learned on the four years of doing this show is something that I may think is not a big deal. Somebody else would think it's a huge deal. Something that I think is a huge deal. People think it's not. And like something that I think is offensive, maybe. So it's like what I try to do now is just like reserve open space, open heart to be

like, okay, if that's your perspective, even if I don't agree, like at least like honor it. Respect it. Yes. Respect it. Yeah. This is a sidebar question. After meeting you and now meeting your

brother yeah you guys are both very grounded people normal people have grown up with very public parents i think about you know with this little baby on the way like okay this baby's going to come into it we're not you know listen we're not no no but you guys are very yeah yeah but the public and i think what do you think what do you think your parents did right in order to basically make you guys what i would say normal people like what do you like what do you think your parents did right in order to basically make you guys what I would say normal people? What do you think those... Yeah, you guys are... You're very level-headed.

I just sat with your brother and it was like, just a normal person. Also, you guys grew up in LA, right? Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes, you know, in LA, like you get... I mean, my Pilates class, I'll just like overhear stuff and I'm just like, this is a wild city. Because we're from San Diego. Let me just be blunt.

Let me be blunt and say it in a way. Like from the moment I've met you, I've always thought, both of us have thought you're an extremely grounded, nice, great person. Thank you. But you meet a lot of assholes up here in LA. People are just like, what the fuck? Just you look around, like, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah. You know, and so my fear as a new upcoming dad is that like I want to have a child that whether they grow up public or not,

is that they're just, they're grounded. So I'd be curious on your take on that. Like what you thought worked for your childhood and like what made you guys grounded people? Yeah. I mean, I think it's interesting because there's a lot of things that, I mean, I think even having a stepson myself now, it's like, you think about a lot of the things you reflect on your own childhood, what worked, what didn't work. And I have to say, I know this sounds crazy, but I look back on my childhood and I'm so grateful. I can't really figure out, there are certain things that I think I would maybe do a little bit differently, but I would say majority of all of my parenting from my childhood, I think my parents did an incredible job with us. And I don't say that in an arrogant way at all.

Because it's not like your parents are like kind kind of known. You're talking about two of the most known people. And so I find it interesting that when you reflect on your childhood, that that wasn't a huge factor for you. Quick little break to discuss hair, all things hair, specifically way. I mean, I'm sure you've heard of it on Instagram, on social media, it's everywhere. The owner is celebrity hairstylist, Jen Adkin. She is so fun to follow on Instagram. And the New York Times calls her the most influential hairstylist in the world. Anyway, she wanted to create the first socially connected hair care brand to drive conversation and innovations in hair. And what I love about Way is they ask their community which products they want instead of telling them what

they need. This is such a strategic, smart business move, and I'm about it. Okay, so let's talk about the products. They have shampoo and conditioner, and they're all problem solution-based shampoos and conditioners. So they have one for fine hair, they have one for medium hair, and they have my personal favorite, one for thick hair. What their products do is they give you the same outcome, which is healthier hair. I need this so bad right now at postpartum because your hair just doesn't feel the same as it felt during pregnancy. It definitely feels finer and thinner. So I'm all about a really great shampoo and conditioner.

Like I said, the one I like, the thick shampoo and conditioner, it cleanses without stripping and it also leaves your hair feeling super buttery and hydrated. It's like frizz free and it just feels like a smooth, nice, beautiful finish. Specifically, the ingredients are shea butter and avocado oil, and this is going to hydrate more. And then it also has a marshmallow root, yum, that detangles and fights frizz. And of course, their products are color safe, sulfate free, cruelty free and sustainable packaging. So eco friendly. I love it. So shop new shampoos and

conditioners for fine, medium and thick hair at the way.com. That's spelled O-U-A-I.com. That's spelled O-U-A-I. And don't forget to use code skinny to receive three free samples with your order. Guys, try it out. Let me know what you think. And with that, let's get back into the episode. No, but I will say that I think it helped that my mom obviously came into a relationship with my dad, someone who was new to that world. My mom came into it knowing and having experience growing up in that world. So it was super important to my mom since day one to give us children a very, very normal upbringing, very normal childhood, as normal as possible. She never, my parents never took us kids to anything public. We were never photographed, talked about. It wasn't like they

were like, we don't have kids, but she always was very respectful of the fact that she wanted our privacy and our identity to be something that we formed on our own and not be the children of or that kind of a thing, which you have inevitably. But, you know, at school, we always went by S. We never used our last name. She was always really hyper conscious of that. And my dad was as well. And I think the only time that I ever felt like maybe we weren't normal, as normal as the other kids, was the fact that I didn't have a mailbox at our house. That was like the biggest thing to me because our mail was all sent to my dad's office. And so like the biggest thing for me growing up was I thought it was strange that like my dad would drive us to school in a Hummer with no doors and no roof for sure.

But I- No doors and no roof. How do you get out? It was just like you sat in the car and had a seat belt there was no door what do you mean how do you get out there's no door you don't have to just pop up i thought you meant like it was like all closed off it was a giant metal yeah i'm like a giant container that they sealed them up in okay okay i'm like yeah like that i thought was a little different for sure but like other than that i look back on my you know all the way through high school and i had a very very normal and all four of us kids had a very, very normal childhood. My parents also raised us for to be, you know, do your own thing, find out what you're passionate about. If you love animals, do something with animals,

whatever you do, be passionate about it. And we're proud of you no matter what, like it was always very focused on our individual personalities, you know, pursuing and doing whatever we wanted to do, not making us do anything that we didn't want to do. It was always, you know, my, my mom focused a lot on that. It was a really big deal to her. And I think that I look back on that and I'm like that the greatest thing that you can give a child, especially growing up in that situation and for your guys' kids, is that the ability for them to have their own identity and the ability for them to create their own persona separate from you guys. They'll always be the children of you guys, of course, but to be able to create their own identity within that is a really challenging thing. And to be able to encourage that and nurture that as parents is a huge gift that you give your kids. Well, I look at like kids in your,

you're not kidding where you're at, but in your situation. I'm a child. 30. We won't talk about age on the show. But I look and, you know, one thing that's important to us too is I always want, I'm hoping that this girl coming out like has her own drive and, you know, there's people in your situation could also just be like'm just not gonna do anything not have any drive it's about like all of you guys are very driven to doing your own thing that was your fourth book right and so like that is important as well i don't want a kid to come out and be like oh cool it's like you just chill right like that'd be terrible yeah i think that's also a really challenging thing growing up in los angeles though and i think you i'm sure you'll see that being parents in los angeles is

like you want to give your kids everything and you want to spoil them and make them happy and do all that. My parents were super strict with that. I was the only kid in my entire high school and friend group who had a curfew, who had chores, who didn't have a unlimited credit card. My mom would give me $20 at the end of the week and she'd be like, this is for your weekend and for the next week like my parents my dad is very old school with his you know rules laundry making the bed turning off the lights clean up your stuff you know it was a very much like we might as your parents we have this

life because we've worked for this life you have to make your own way it's not yours it's not you i hope you're listening to this because i'm very like i'm very into this like like we're not doing like a bmw for the 16th birthday just so you know it's something we've been talking about a lot where like a lot of parents think they're helping their kids by giving them all that stuff but like subliminally what you're really telling them is hey we don't believe enough in you to go get it on your own and so i feel like it over time it does more harm to the child because like 100 we're scared if we stop giving you all this stuff that you're just going to fail. So it's like, it's basically signaling to the kid that we don't have enough faith in you that you can live a life on your own. Yeah. I remember my, my mom, when I was in like

ninth or 10th grade, one of my friends got a really fancy pair of high heel shoes. And I was, I said to my mom, I really want that pair of fancy high heel shoes for my birthday. And my mom said, I can, I can give you that for sure. I can afford that. I can, your dad and I can do that. Will I do that? Absolutely not. I'm not going to give you those pair of shoes for your birthday because if I give those to you now, what will you have to look forward to? And I was like, what do you mean? That's terrible. Like I was, you know, hysterical about it, but I look back on it and I'm like, thank God my mom didn't do that. And thank God my parents didn't just like give us all of that, that we wanted instantly. And, you know, just say that, oh, I want to buy this dress. I want to go buy that. It's very hard

growing up in Los Angeles and you, your kid will go to school with a lot of people who have very different parenting styles than you. And it's challenging to be the parent, I think, and to be the kid that has all these rules. And it was challenging for me when I was in high school because I would look at all my friends and I'd be like, why don't your parents call the other parents before they come over? Like my mom would never let me go to a house until she spoke to the parent.

I'm going to be in a fucking tree with binoculars standing. Yeah, but you need to calm down because you're already like trying to spoil a fetus. Like you need to, no, you need to- He's spoiling you, hopefully. I think, I think one. Like you need to, no, you need to. Spoiling you. Hopefully. I think you need to, you need to,

this is really important that you hear this. One to four years old. You can not like, they don't know, but I think at that point, it's okay. Four years old. I want a level headed,

grounded daughter like this. Why don't you guys come over for dinner? My mother, you'll get a crash course in maria shriver parenting i'll take all the help i can like you you're the one maybe i'm getting a little overexcited right now you're the one that it's you're the one that is the bad one i never had a daughter before okay well i thought i had i was like i'm gonna have a son because she thought it was a boy for a long time i was i'm gonna marry this tough young man he's gonna going to have to do all these things. He's going to be really hard on it.

And then it's like, girl, I'm like, oh, shit, I'm going to take a selfie ever. Yeah, but you really need to like re-listen to this episode. It's really important. My dad was like that, though. I think my dad like was, you know, I'm the first. You have a daughter. You want to like spoil them. And then my dad was, my dad, of course, was super loving and still is today.

Very, you know, an amazing father, an amazing parent. But also, you know, my dad had very strict rules with us and, you know, held us to certain standards of like, this is what you're going to do in this house. This is how I grew up. And I love it. I'm so grateful. I don't, I never leave my bedroom now without making my bed ever. Lauren never leaves our bedroom without making our bed either. Except this morning.

Well, listen, you know, I noticed you're doing the same i was talking to hillary and she's like well ksp is gonna come like no they didn't know what the fuck she was talking about and i noticed you're doing the same thing that lauren does you're doing the katherine schwarzenegger pratt she does lauren everett's boston yeah that's everyone wants to keep their last name i'm gonna start calling you ksp now because i was like okay it's a nice like you know so it sounds like you're you weren't that public in your childhood but now obviously who you're married to I feel like you guys like are photographed everywhere is that annoying that would that would be a lot for me I try not to focus on it like you just

don't even give it energy I mean I would be lying to you if I said that it didn't bother me sometimes for sure but I also grew up in it and I again not to like completely toot my parents horn all the time but my parents I watched my parents deal with it right so completely toot my parents horn all the time, but my parents, I watched my parents deal with it. Right. So I also watch my parents deal with it in a very graceful way of just you focus, keep moving forward. You live your life.

And I have also, you know, extended family that I also watch deal with it. And I try to just do the same thing, which is just like, don't let it bother you. You keep living your life and do your own thing. And it is what it is. So if you feel if you have an ugly day, which I don't know how you could have an ugly day, but if I'm like, like right now, like I don't want to go outside. Like, what do you do? You just hide? No, never. I never, ever want to ever feel like I have to hide in a place or anything like that. I've never, it would never hopefully enter my mind to do that. But of course you have ugly days. You have days where you don't want to like go outside and do whatever, but like,

you know, Kim Kardashian said at Create and Cultivate, it was like, what's the hardest part about being Kim Kardashian? She's like, sometimes I just want to go outside in my pajamas and like let my fat roll in my sweatpants and buy a churro. I'm like, that's that. I mean, that's like very real. Yeah. Sometimes you do. Yeah. But she has it very bad. I don't have it like she's like, I mean, she's probably followed every, every second. That would be a lot. Yeah. So beauty tips and tricks. I have to ask. Sorry, Michael, that you did to prepare for your wedding. Beauty tips and tricks. I mean, I went to Vanessa Hernandez, who you went to.

She's lovely. Yeah. I went to her a lot for that. And what else did I do? Spray tan eyebrows, lashes. Did not do a spray tan. Nothing. Absolutely not. I don't think you need a spray tan. No spray tan. Grew out my eyebrows for two years with Christy Stryker. And then I did my Pilates. And then I just like really would spend a lot of time with my family.

Your body looked insane. It still looks insane. Before your wedding I saw you. What were all the secrets there? I just like would constantly go on walks with my dog

with my family with my husband. He went to Pilates classes with me. We did it as a couple. Michael. Oh my God, get me in trouble.

You've never gone to Pilates with me. I do other things. I think couples Pilates is not only hilarious but makes the workout go by very quickly but it's also quickly. I should probably do it. I've got problems with my like psoas and my hips. No, but you'll also realize it and it'll be very enjoyable for you. You'll realize how not strong you really are, like your core, because Pilates, you work out

muscles that guys who are, you know, really strong and do things in the gym that a lot of men do, you get on a Pilates reform when you're like, I'm not actually that strong. Pilates is hard. So you're telling me I'm going to go and be humiliated. Yes. It'll be so enjoyable for her. One time she took me to that, well, like a hanging yoga class and I was in one of those sheets.

Oh my God, I want to do that really badly. Yeah, that's good. But I want you to come to Pilates with me. Okay. Jackie Schimmel said her husband goes too. Okay, I'm getting beat down by everybody. Listen, I'm pretty, like I'm one of those guys that's like, I don't know, like, come on, like, okay.

Okay, so I want to know like food things. Like what are your food go-tos? Is there like a smoothie? Is it like coffee? Like what are your things that you keep going back to that you feel like are really healthy? I would say if you ask my husband, he'll tell you that I have the palate

of a four-year-old child. I like anything that's simple. Cereal, pancakes, eggs, toast. I'm on board with that. The simpler, the better for me. I don't like anything that's super fancy. I'm not into that. I just, everything that's super,

one of my new resolutions is to learn how to cook. So I'm going to definitely do that. But I definitely think that my palate is, I like smoothies, but I think that's probably the only adult thing that I enjoy. I told Lauren, I was like, if you could learn two, possibly three recipes. I'm fucking building a child right now. I'm nine and a half months pregnant. Why don't you go learn something? I'm saying I'm probably good for life. Like I only need like two or three items. Last night I asked him at 10 o'clock at night, I said, can you please make me Annie's mac and cheese? And you would have thought I asked him

to prepare a 10 course dinner. Because I was running around doing chores. Her family came over, I'm making drinks, I'm doing all these things. And then she waited to the very moment. I don't care. I don't care if I woke you up at two in the morning. She has like a couple of days left of this.

A lot of demands. And then there's a mini her coming and I'm in like, I'm in real real trouble here i hope she's the devil to you we already we already know we're not calling you dad i mean i may need that what are you gonna call him papa papa taylor you were doing it yesterday a long drawn out papa i don't want taylor calling me no taylor please just do it once just for everyone your mic's on for one time i can't believe it wow i didn't have to sit there and really long drawn out very excited to hear that so coffee like alcohol what like no coffee not a drinker not a drinker no ever no i mean i had a drink on my wedding but I'm or yeah I did I've never been in

so strange I've never really been like a drinker ever my parents aren't drinkers so then you won't mind being pregnant because I miss a margarita no I don't think I will because I'm not it's not something I mean I'll have if I go out to dinner with my girlfriends or something I'll have like a glass of wine or something but I'm never I've never been like a drinker really i love an oat milk latte but that's from where from blue bottle oh i've never tried it i've never tried it an oat milk latte is it hot or cold hot i don't drink the cold coffee is not something that i'm okay a hot oat milk latte from blue bottle you need to give my wife a crash course in la she's all you need to show her all the places around yeah i don't really know a lot of the places. I feel like I need like, I don't want like the trendy places though.

I want like the hole in the wall Italian restaurant that no one knows about that has homemade pasta. You know? Like Forma. What's Forma? Forma. They make it in a giant Parmesan bowl. Oh, that sounds good. You can take me there.

A giant Parmesan bowl. You just throw me in there right now at this point. Before we go, I want to ask you a random question. So you wrote a book on dogs. Yes. If someone is out there and wants to rescue or adopt a dog, and I know this is so random, but I have someone in mind that I'm speaking to, what is the best way to go about it? Like, is there somewhere you recommend they go? Is there a number they can call? How do you adopt and rescue a dog in the right way, I guess? I mean, the greatest thing that I was able to do is foster first because I fostered seven puppies with my

sister beforehand. And it was the greatest ability to be able to kind of dip your toes in that water. So if you, if it doesn't work out for you, you're not like, oh my God, now I have a dog and I can't do anything with it. Like I, you know, I really bit off more than I can chew. So you're able to kind of see, you know, do I really like getting up in the middle of the night? Do I like getting up, you know, early in the morning to take the dog on a walk? Is that part of my life? Is that part of my routine? Do I have people in my life that are able to be part of this community to help me take care of the dog when I need to go do something? There are a lot of factors that I didn't think about before getting Maverick.

And I would not have thought about had I not have this ability to foster first. So I always tell people, foster first and then. Because there's somewhere you recommend. I think a lot of places have and are in huge needs of foster people. So it can be, you can go, it doesn't matter where you go. No, I mean, not in my experience. I know there are a lot of great local rescues. Love Leo Rescue is an amazing organization and they do a lot of amazing work.

Best Friends Animal Society, obviously ASPCA, they have and are always in need of fosters. And they have a lot of different, you know, you can say I have this allergy or I need a small dog or I, you know, can take a big dog, a senior dog, whatever it is. And they can work with you to figure out a dog that would work for you and for your family and your situation in life. I would like to adopt another chihuahua. That was kind of a question for myself. You need to calm down. Let's get through the baby first because that's going to take some resources. There's so many chihuahuas in Los Angeles. Yeah, Michael. I love, listen, I am a chihuahua whisperer. I love chihuahuas.

I saw the last night on her videos. Listen, if there's a chihuahua, they will immediately gravitate towards me. I could use another chihuahua. I know, but the problem is, Lauren said we were going to get this. We had a girl chihuahua. It's literally the love of my life.

I almost tear up thinking about her. Even more than Lauren. Like you're crying right now. Almost crying. One time a guy told her to stop peeing in a bush and he came out of the pizza shop. I literally almost just, I almost killed the guy. I love that.

I was like, listen, you can push my wife. Don't push the dog. Maybe not now with the baby. But, and then she's like, okay, we're going to get this other dog. And because the one dog won't get off of me. She just sleeps like on my face. She's going to get this another dog and that dog will go with her. What's happened now is they both sleep on my face.

And so I'm literally suffocated every night with chihuahuas. One, the first one we bought when I was, well, I bought when I was 18. And the second one we rescued, he was living in a cage. And it is interesting to see the difference of their personalities. Behavior. One wakes up, he's so grateful.

He's wagging his tail. And the other one's like more aloof and brought. Bothered. Yeah. It's literally a clone of her. That's probably why i like it so much but i am i'm a very very big advocate of rescuing chihuahuas because like you said aren't they one of the most chihuahuas and pitbulls they fill the shelters here in los angeles they have a really big problem with specifically those two breeds in los angeles because there are so many of both of them here

i think we should rescue a chihuahua. That's what I'm getting out of this. Okay. I want to talk about the book a little bit more. So when you think about writing this, like all the people listening, there's a couple. What kind of person or maybe what kind of mindset the person's going through, will this help the most? Like when you think like, I know everyone has to experience forgiveness, but when you thought about like, who were you writing this for? Was it more therapeutic for you? Was it for somebody in mind? It was definitely a therapeutic and healing process for me, for sure. I mean, doing this entire book, as I said before, I had moments in writing this book

and I wrote it over a year and a half. And in that year and a half, I had a ton of moments of different people in my life and situations from my past that came back up and I realized that I needed to focus more on and do more work on forgiveness in those situations. So it was definitely, I had moments of being tested throughout writing this book. I wrote this book definitely with the mindset of, of course, myself being interested in forgiveness, but also feeling like the most beneficial way that I've been able to be helped in my forgiveness journey is by talking to everyday people about their journey with forgiveness and learning from their own experiences and their struggles and their

challenges dealing with it. And then being able to apply what they've learned to my own life. My goal with this book is also that you'll be able to pick it up and put it down. You don't need to read the entire book in one sitting because these stories are so heavy and they're so raw and there's so much amazing information in each story. I really hope that you read it, you pick it up and that you put it down and take time to digest after every section. For me personally, when doing these interviews

and writing people's sections, it was a lot because a lot of these stories are very heavy. They're very emotional. I mean, people are talking about losing family members, you know, very traumatic, horrible things. And so even after I would do the interviews, I needed to take time to just process and digest what I had just talked about because they were so incredible. And also it was a huge gift to me to be able to talk to people that I'd never met before and have them sit with me and tell me these very, you know, deep and emotional stories that, you know, oftentimes we don't tell our friends of 15 years. So it was a huge gift to me, but I really hope

that people go into it having an open mind to hear different people's perspective, go into it with empathy and understanding and compassion. I have Sue Klebold in the book, whose son Dylan Klebold is one of the Columbine shooters. It's a very fascinating interview for me and also a really interesting section in the book. I encourage people to read that again with a huge amount of compassion. But every single person in that book,

you know, told me their stories and wanted to be a part of this book with the hopes that their story will be able to help another person in their healing journey with forgiveness. So the book comes from a really beautiful place of a desire of people, including myself, to be able to share their stories and help other people in their own journey and really also be able to open up the conversation around forgiveness because I don't find that it's something that we often talk about because it's

such a complex and complicated topic and subject. Well, I think like the one thing I love about books like this is, and I think where people can use a little help and a push is it offers a ton of perspective, right? Like I said, in the beginning, reserving space for people to understand like, hey, your issue may impact you and maybe you may think it's a big deal. Some of the people may not, but this book shows that like there's some people that have had some real, real serious trauma and some real things that they need. And so like also someone can read, maybe they're like, they see, they hear a story like this, like, okay, maybe my situation's not so bad.

Right. Because like these are extreme stories. The first chapter is Elizabeth Smart. Like that's an extreme story. And so maybe someone's like, hey, maybe I can reserve a space to forgive someone because if they hear these crazy stories, it's like, okay, maybe my situation is not so bad. And I think we're in a society right now where a lot of press, a lot of media, it's a lot of negativity.

And so people think everything is so bad. But in my opinion, the world's getting better and better as we go on more and more. And I think people just need a little bit of perspective to realize, okay, maybe my life is not as bad as I think it is. inspired by the other person's ability to practice forgiveness, whether it's Elizabeth Smart or someone else in the book to say, wow, they were able to practice forgiveness. Now let me look at my own situation in my own life and say, it's, you know, it really horrible or really, really challenging and really painful for me. I'm inspired by Elizabeth's ability to forgive. And I want to be able to do that in my own life because I can, I potentially can too. Yeah. Because I never want to ever, you know, minimize anybody's pain or hurt in any situation.

I have somebody in there, you know, whose husband was unfaithful to her and she needed to learn how to forgive. Or another girl, a woman, Cora Jakes, who had a huge falling out in her friendship with her best friend. I think a lot of us hear things like that and we're like, oh, that's not that big of a deal.

But for her and for plenty of other people, it's a monumental deal in their life. So I never like to compare pain. Obviously, there are stories in this book that are some you can relate to. Others are just the most insane stories ever and very tragic and traumatic events. And I think the overall theme that I wanted to kind of get across in the book is that no matter what the situation is, we all have something to learn from forgiveness and we all, um, and every single person in the book, no matter what their incident or situation was also is able to speak

on forgiveness, their struggle with forgiveness, but also be able to express the huge amount of opportunities and possibilities in life that come with practicing forgiveness and giving themselves that gift. Is there rules to forgiveness? Meaning once I've said to Michael, I forgive you for talking about your hair when I'm pregnant. I accept the forgiveness. Thank you. Is there a rule that I can't bring it up again? Yes, I think so. That I need to actually let it go, that I

shouldn't hold resentment. Like, what are like the requirements that you've seen? I don't know if requirements is the right word, but what are the sort of unspoken forgiveness rules? I think it's different. I mean, you'll see in the book, it's different for everybody. Like some people create rules in their relationship on how that works. And if it's forgiveness within two people or in a marriage

or whatever that is, you know, being able to establish what works for best for you guys, but other people don't, and they constantly have to go back to it. That's why, you know, forgiveness is really for a lot of people in ongoing process and something you, you know, you might be upset about his hair today, you might be forgiving tomorrow, and then you go back to it and you remind yourself what place of forgiveness you're able to come from and focus back on that. So that's definitely a common theme in the book of some people saying, I mastered forgiveness and I'm good. And I grew up in a certain way where I practiced forgiveness and I had a great understanding of it. And I feel confident on

practicing forgiveness. There are other people who say, I'm actually never be able to practice it. And that's okay. And then there are some people who say, like myself, who say, I've been able to practice forgiveness. Will I be a struggler with forgiveness for the rest of my life? I'm sure. But that's okay. Because I look at it like, I'm going to be gentle with myself. I'll take each situation as it arises throughout my life. And I'm a fellow struggler with forgiveness. And that's why I wrote the book is to help other people who are struggling with it. I'm never going to ever say I'm an expert on forgiveness. I'm certainly not. Even after writing this book, not an expert on forgiveness.

I'm a fellow struggler with it. And I will continue to be. But to be able to take these nuggets of wisdom that are in this book and from these people's journeys and stories and experiences, and to be able to apply them and keep them in mind. So when you do have those moments where you really feel like you're struggling, you're able to think of them and hopefully have that inspire you to forgive. It sounds like a muscle. It is. Well, actually, funny you say that. A lot of people talk about the forgiveness muscle. It's a muscle that you need to train. It needs to build muscle memory over time and that you're able to go back. And if your forgiveness muscle is weak, work on it, train it. And how that grows over time and your ability to forgive in 20 years from now might be better

than it is now. And that's great. And it also still might be the same. And that's OK, too. After this episode, I'm choosing to forgive Taylor for going to a strip club the night of my wedding, pissing himself and getting a lap dance. Taylor, that's big. This is my final question because we're talking about individual forgiveness here, but Lauren and I have experiences in our own life. There's a family dynamic and

you've experienced this too. We don't have to get into specifics, but there's an issue with the family and maybe I choose to forgive, but maybe my spouse doesn't or my sibling doesn't. How do you get people, in these experiences, all these people have family members. Say one of them says, I'm forgiven, I've moved on, but not everybody in the family is on the same page. How do you deal with that when it's like, I've moved on, I've forgiven, but somebody, maybe like a sibling or whatever, a wife is constantly bringing it back. You have to have empathy for their journey. Everyone's different. Yeah. I think understanding that everyone's different is number one. Understanding

that everybody has their own journey with forgiveness is super important and their own relationship with it is super important. Also being patient with the process and also being very patient and understanding with other people's processes on forgiveness. Because I think we look at a lot of people and even in our own lives, we know, I think we look at a lot of people and even in our own lives, you know, we look at people, I look at people in my life and I say like, it's, you know, this many years ago, are you able to forgive?

I see a lot of people who, you know, something may have happened to them 40 years ago and they're not able to forgive. And sometimes I wonder, well, will they ever be able to forgive? And they're very adamant, absolutely not. So it's being understanding to their journey and their relationship with it. And you need to respect that. And I think a lot of people in the book, you know, Tonya Brown speaks about that.

Chris Williams speaks about that. He lost his wife, his pregnant wife, and two of his children in a car accident. And he forgave in that instant. And his mother had a very, very challenging time with understanding his process with forgiveness and how he was able to forgive so quickly. And he talks about needing to be patient with her process, needing to respect her process, let her be angry, because you need to work through that, right? You go through different phases of forgiveness. It can be anger, sadness, pain. It's different for everyone and you need to respect everyone's own journey with forgiveness. What's a book besides your own, a podcast or a resource

that you would recommend to our audience that's brought you immense value? Well, of course, your guys' podcast brings me immense pleasure all the time. I think for me, I mean, I'm definitely big on Headspace right now, just being very good for mind, body, and soul. That's something that I'm super into using. It's one of my New Year's resolutions. And I know this sounds like very crazy, I'm sure, because it's my mom, but my mom has the Sunday paper that she sends out every Sunday. And my mom- It's like an email or is it- It's an email. And my mom, as I've gotten older, I've always respected my mother. But as I've gotten older, my mom is like a well of wisdom. And I'm just like, I constantly am asking her all of these questions about different

things in my life because she has so much wisdom. And I just want to soak it all in. You seem like you guys have a really special relationship. Yeah. My mom and I are super close. My mom is, you know, we're all super close in my family and, and I'm super close to everybody and everybody's super close with each other. But my mom, she has a Sunday paper and if you subscribe to it, you can get it on Sundays. And she writes kind of her thoughts and reflections each week.

And she works so hard on it and does such an incredible job. And it always leaves me thinking much deeper about something. It leaves a lot of people in my life messaging me and saying, I read your mom's Sunday paper and I'm thinking about this in my life differently or this. So that to me, I would say probably really changes the course of my life. And if not my life every Sunday, someone in my life's life. So I think that's probably one of the most impactful and meaningful things. And she's always strangely talking about something that you need. First of all, she needs a podcast called Sunday Paper.

Because then we can listen to it on the go too. Listen, here's what we'll do. We'll go and I'll get some parenting advice. And then we can talk about podcasts. I think at one point we were talking a little bit about podcasts. How do you subscribe to the Sunday Paper? You can go on Sunday Paper. I think it's sundaypaper.org i have to get the exact link for it but you can sign up for it or on maria shriver.com you can sign up for it on there i'm going to sign up for it that's so nice thank you so much for coming on where can everyone

find your book where can everyone find you on instagram pimp yourself out i'm under katherine schwarzenegger on instagram and on twitter the book comes out march 10 10th. It's available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, anything online, but it's also going to be in bookstores on March 10th. And we will go on a book tour. So I'll be posting about dates and locations that I'll be doing certain events and things like that. But it's out March 10th. And potential podcast?

Yeah, potential podcast. That'll be coming up shortly, hopefully. And it's available for pre-order now, though. Okay. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. Thank you, KSP.

I'm so excited for your baby. Oh, well. We're excited, too. I'm like just wondering how it's going to get out. I can't wait to hear about all the details about it. And I know she'll give it to me. So I'm just like, I'm really looking forward to it. Oh, I'm eating my placenta.

Jesus Christ. Are you going to do those pills? Yeah. I hope you guys love that episode on forgiveness. To win some TSC swag, thank the new PopSocket stickers, maybe a bookmark. Just leave your favorite part of this episode

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