The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - The Hills' Jason Wahler & Ashley Wahler On Codependency. Addiction, Gambling, & How To Help An Addict In Recovery

Episode Date: March 10, 2022

#442: On this episode we are joined by The Hills' Ashley & Jason Wahler to discuss their journy with addiction. We also discuss how being codependent can enable an addicts behavior. We also discuss how we can help someone in the throws of addiction.  To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by Ring Concierge To learn more and get 15% off at The Ring Concierge click HERE and use code SKINNYRING This episode is brought to you by Sakara This year, turn your resolutions into reality. Whether you’re looking to try plant-based eating, build an empowered body, boost skin’s glow, or simply feel your very best, Sakara makes it easy to create rituals that last. Sakara is a wellness company rooted in the transformative power of plant-based food. Their menu of creative, chef-crafted breakfasts, lunches, and dinners changes weekly, so you’ll never get bored. And it’s delivered fresh, anywhere in the U.S. And right now, Sakara is offering our listeners 20% off their first order when they go to www.sakara.com/skinny and enter code SKINNY at checkout. Produced by Dear Media 

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to The Skinny Confidential, him and her.

I would go to sleep. I was super pregnant. I was exhausted. I would go to sleep in the room and he would be in the office like up all night drinking by himself. He'd like go down to the liquor store in a hoodie and then come back. And I was like, I remember one day he came in. It's like really sad, but he came in and I was super pregnant. And he kind of started crying and he's like, fuck, like you're like really pregnant.

Like I don't even barely remember like you being pregnant like you're about to have a baby and I'm like yep this is me it's hard to hear the damage that we do because again is it's such a self selfish and self-centered disease where you don't really realize a lot of this is happening because where Ashley's about to go is I was actually on the first floor at Hoag Hospital while she was giving birth to Delilah on the fourth floor. Have we got an episode for you? Jason and Ashley Waller are on the podcast. And I'm sure you recognize them from the hills. I mean, Jason was like iconic with Lauren Conrad. She didn't go to Paris because of him. And then he ended up marrying this beautiful, dynamic, smart entrepreneur ashley and together

They're like this power couple and of course you've seen them recently on the hills You also may recognize jason from celebrity rehab, which we get into This episode definitely does discuss the hills in reality tv, but it's also very focused on addiction recovery addiction, recovery, addiction, you know, codependence. We went pretty deep on this episode. I really enjoyed talking to these guys. Very, very, very smart. And I think what was so cool about this episode is that we had someone who is a, you know, an addict on the podcast, but we got to see how the addict affected

his wife and we got to hear her the addict affected his wife. And we got to hear her side of the story and how she felt. And I think that that's not talked about enough. You know, I have an addict in my family and to be a family member, to be married to someone who has an addiction problem is really, it's really hard. And I think that the people who are around the addict

don't get talked about enough. I'm really grateful for Al-Anon if you haven't checked that out. And if you have someone who you're dealing with that's an addict, that's a really good place to start. But this episode sheds light on how this disease can affect a lot of different people, not just the addict. With that, let's welcome Jason Waller. He's a host, an actor, a TV personality, and a philanthropist who, like I said, have appeared in many hit shows. And then his wife, who's a hairstylist, a colorist, a designer, a mom, and she has a new hair care accessories line called the Gold Collection. Let's welcome him to the podcast. Ashley and Jason, take it away.

This is The Skinny Confidential, him and her. Thank you for having us. This is nice. Thank you so much. I've wanted to have you guys for so long. I feel like I obviously told you I was a Hills fan. And then I saw Ashley rolling her face with another product. And I was like, no, no, no.

We have to get her a Skinny Confidential ice roller. And people were messaging me pictures of Ashley rolling her face. Oh, yeah. She still does it to this day. I love it. My daughter loves it, actually. We got to get your daughter one. Yeah. It's amazing. It's like so good for your face. I have such a bad rash right now. It looks like I was stung by a bee.

I have so much makeup on right now. And the ice roller like saved my life. You look great. Oh, thanks. Thanks. No, you know, I get really bad migraines and that is the only thing because I get really bad neck pain in the back. And so I'll take the ice roller and use it on the back of my neck actually. And it's so helpful because it makes the inflammation go down and then I don't have a migraine anymore. Thanks for the plug. Code skinny. Yeah. So I'm so excited to have both of you guys on. I have been such a fan of the Hills, Laguna Beach, all the different things.

I also was a fan of Celebrity Rehab, which we're going to get into. I wanted to have you guys on to talk about your experience with the Hills and how you guys met. But I also wanted to just talk about everything you guys have been through. I think to kick it off, I would love to know how you guys met. I'll let you take that one, Ashley. Well, do you remember Las Palmas in Hollywood? We met at a club.

Kind of. Michael and I were in San Diego. Yeah. Did you ever come down here? What year was that? 2009. Yeah, 2009. I was still out.

Las Palmas in Hollywood. And is Jason like out partying, boozing, having fun when you guys meet okay the only clubs I knew was like that place Sound remember that place it was called

was it Sound I feel like you're not the person to talk about clubs I don't know about that Boyer was one Boyer I went to Ledoux for a while

you did Monday for like one second yeah so I worked at Geisha House oh yeah Lonnie and Syl yeah

the owner was Lonnie yeah Lonnie and Syl Lonnie and Syl, yeah. Yes, the owner was Lonnie. Yeah, Lonnie and Syl, yeah. Lonnie and Syl. Yes. Never would have remembered that. Dolce Group. Shout out to Dolce Group. Yeah.

Okay, so tell us how you met. Okay, so my girlfriend, we walked into Las Palmas and she and I were looking around. And you know, back then you're wearing like your cute little tiny dress. Now girls are like in crop tops and jeans. It's weird. But you got all dressed up. You went to the club. And my girlfriend was like, oh my God, there's that guy Jason from the hills.

We should go over and drink his alcohol. I'm like, okay, whatever. Which is like what you did back then. So walk to the table. I don't know where you're going with this one. I hung out with him. And yeah, it was kind of a wild night. We hung out and I just remember both of us were like really wild. Was it a connection though right away? I need to know. What does wild mean here? Yeah, what does this mean? Well, he kissed me and then he kissed my friend.

So it was one of those like crazy nights. You know what though? That works. It does. It worked out very well. So we didn't talk for a year after that, but he ended up coming into Geisha House all the time and he'd have a water bottle.

And my girlfriend had called- It wasn't full of vodka anymore. No, my girlfriend had called me a couple of days later and she was like, hey, you'll never believe who's going to be on Celebrity Rehab. I'm like, who? She goes, Jason Waller.

I said, yeah, right. That guy is trouble. Like there's no way he's getting sober. But then he continued to come into Geisha House with water and then he ended up living in Newport with my girlfriend's boyfriend. And so that's kind of how we reconnected. And we went on a date almost a year when he was sober. And literally, we went on a date and we were together ever since. I want to ask you something. This is just because I'm trying to think about those kind of 2009-10 club days.

I imagine that wasn't the easiest to go to those places with just a water bottle it's like you're still kind of no you were still you were still in the mix of it but I mean at that time I'd really I mean after when I started coming back in I had acquired some time of sobriety and so I was already moved back to Orange County got out of this environment but I still had a lot of friends up here so I was coming back and forth and And this was eight, nine months down the road. And when I was back down there, actually, after Celebrity Rehab, I lived with Jason Davis. Unfortunately, he's no longer here. A kid by the name of Andrew, who was friends with her friend. And that's how we all reconnected again. But yeah, no, I wouldn't recommend that in the early stages of it. But I was at such a different place. And then right after I got out of celebrity rehab, for the first time, I actually got a real job. By the time I was... I grew up

playing baseball. That's all I had to do. Go to school, get decent grades. And then the show happened. And then this went off the deep end. You know what I mean? And just thought I was living the dream, being paid to party and travel the world at 18, 19, 20, 21. So long story short, though, when I connected with Ashley, I'd actually had a real job. I actually was... You're 24. I remember his first real job, 24 years old. Yeah. I started working in the treatment industry and I was a recovery advocate. And I worked with Mike Netherton, who was the president of Betty Ford for 25 years, Betty Ford's right-hand man. So I had a great mentor. Dr. Drew is still a very dear friend, but he was a mentor for me back then as well. And I really surrendered. And so that's really when things transitioned was July 23rd, 2010.

Do you think being on the hills contributed to the spiral of addiction or do you just think it helped propel it? So this is what... It's a great question. I do not blame the shows for my addiction. I mean, I was pre-genetically disposed. I got half my family struggles with addiction and or mental health. It just sped everything up. Definitely, it added fuel to the fire because it created access. For an alcoholic, I have an overinflated ego with an underestimated sense of self-worth. And when I'm in the depths of that and you're adding all this falsified reality out here that I can escape with, it just kept adding fuel to the fire, you know? And at 18, you know,

most of your friends are looking for fake IDs and we're being paid to go around the country. We're, I mean, different- Girls are coming up to you in short dresses out of nowhere. Striped shirts, you remember that? Yeah. They got friends. Was I in a striped shirt?

No, you're a friend. I'm just kidding. I'm like, I think I was in a green shirt. I wasn't a stripe, Jason. Yeah, sorry, polka dots. What, walk us through someone who doesn't have access to the kinds of things that you had access to at that time, what it looks like.

Like, is it like you just walk up to the line and they let you in? Is it girls trying to like literally sit on your dick? Like what are we looking at that's like contributing to this world? I guess we can kind of freely speak, right? Oh, yeah.

Oh, we can freely speak. Earmuffs. Babe, no, I don't need earmuffs. I know everything. I don't even care. No, it's... Michael's doesn't have a pretty past either.

Yeah, so coming from, again, coming from Laguna Beach, which is kind of like a sleepy, you know, little surf art community to, you know, I'll never forget, Talon brought us up to LA because Talon was kind of

up in the mix at 17. He left high school and we came up here and Frankie Delgado, who I've known now for that long, since I was 18 years old, we went up and we tried to go, I mean, just think of the process getting alcohol, going to 7-Eleven, hey bro, can you get us some? Or if you don't have a fake ID or anything like that.

So we walk up and we go to the back, I think it was called Element at the time, back in the day. And we're like, dude, how the hell? We weren't even on television yet. And he's like, trust me, I got you, bro. We go into the, he walks us through the back door and we're in. And I remember Cedric was with me, Talon.

And we just kind of looked at each other. Like literally, it was probably, I forget what movie it was, but I'm thinking of, I forget what the movie it is. But it was like, we both looked at each other like, dude, we're fucking doing this. like we're in here at 17 and that's when that's i mean that's when my addiction definitely started to kick off and just having this access so we're up here every weekend because like all your everybody else in high school is probably there

you know they're down that's a sleepy town doing the house party thing you're like up here coming up here and so i was just thinking about how okay well because talon was on the first season of Laguna. That's why he had this access. I came back from boarding school. So then that's when I came back and then we ended up having, you know, the second season came out. But that's kind of how it initially happened because Talon was on Laguna and he started

dating Lindsay Lohan and stuff. Yeah, he was dating big names. Yeah, so that's how we kind of got into the mix. But it was crazy. I mean, that's, I mean, just the access, being able to get in, everything was free. Now you're getting paid

to come to these places. I mean, unlimited girls. It was, it was, it was gnarly. I've always wanted to ask this question. I don't know how I've never asked this question on this podcast.

When you're on such a popular show and you're single and you're young and you're out having fun, especially in LA, can, and I think you're going to say yes, can you spot the girl that has desperate energy because she knows you're on the show? There's kind of like, what do they do? Tell me what they do. God, it's, I mean, they're just overly, overly flirtatious and it's, it's, it's sad. There's like almost a desperate side to it

you know what I mean or they're just kind of like hey can we get a drink like they're just overly flirty it's just very apparent I mean it's almost there's not something

like very very particular that they do like oh that's how you call it out but they were just I don't know they get like clingery they're very

that's they're very clingy I call it ear horn like speaking of someone who I love it. That's good. As a guy who like say another experience

didn't have that accent. Random girls aren't just popping up out of nowhere. You know, no matter what kind of... Even if you're a good looking dude, they're not coming out of nowhere and just being like, hey, like a little bit of pursuit.

So it must be weird when it's the other way around because it just doesn't happen normally to men. I think that's probably why Jason liked Ashley though, is because it sounds like you were like kind of underwhelmed the first night and you were like, eh, work for it.

I mean, that's true. I feel like I was. What do you think? I mean, I don't know. I mean, the first night, I don't remember the first night. I don't really remember the first night either. I remember being there and I remember like we met there, but I don't really remember what happened.

I mean, my alcoholism happened. Yeah, same. My alcoholism at those stages, it was blackout. So I don't remember, like when I drank, I would blackout. Do you remember the first moment that you decided, this is time for me to get sober without someone else pushing you? Or were there things that led up to it? Was there an epiphany?

Was there a rock bottom? I know everyone's story is different when it comes to this. Yeah, I mean, again, keep in mind after going to 12 treatment centers, being arrested a ton of times and having everything that society says is amazing, whether it's money, access, notoriety, girls, whatever it is. I was still that individual that was just so lonely, so depressed, so ashamed that not only did I contemplate attempting suicide, I've actually tried committing suicide. By the grace of God, I was found and I'm still here.

But the turning point for that was actually, again, as I have a very tight family dynamic, my parents have been married coming up on 50 years of marriage. Wow. Yeah, this year, 50 years. And going back into a therapy session with my parents for the hundreds of time,

you know what I mean? And this was right before July 23rd. It was like a few days prior to that. My dad never seen him break down. He's kind of like the patriarch of our family. And the only time I've seen him break down is when his mom died. And he basically just looked at me with my mom there and tear coming down his eye and just saying, hey, look, Jason, we don't know what to do anymore. Mom and I, our marriage is suffering. And we're like two planks of wood laying in bed, just waiting for the phone call. You're dead. And whatever that was. And again, there's conversations, there's multiple interventions that have happened,

but there was a moment of clarity there. There was a real light that came on that I saw through my dad. And I didn't have enough motivation for myself at that time to get sober, but my family, and because I had such a tight dynamic, I said, look, I don't care enough about me right now, but you guys will become my motivation and my inspiration. And that was the time. That's when I really transformed my life. Was alcohol your drug of choice? I would say alcohol is my drug of choice, but I mean, anything that would make me feel different, I was addicted to. I mean, I loved cocaine. I loved anything, any form of uppers. I mean, I tried all types of pills and stuff, but never got into like heroin or any needles or any of that type of stuff.

But side note on cocaine for anyone who's listening and you could probably speak more eloquently on this, but I heard that like recently, cocaine's being, it's completely different than it used to be

when you were doing it. It's like laced with fentanyl and stuff and people, is this, maybe you could just do a little like sentence on this. It's one of the most dangerous times right now. For anyone who's listening,

who's doing cocaine, you could, if you know anything about it, that would the most dangerous times right now. I mean, it's all dangerous, but fentanyl is- For anyone who's listening, who's doing cocaine, you could, if you know anything about it, that would be cool. Yeah, no, I mean, I just think in general, there's drugs are way different than they were just overall. I mean, I'm talking about marijuana. You're talking about any forms of prescription drugs.

I mean, pills nowadays that are, that look just like a Xanax, that look just like an Oxy, that look just like a Valium, they're actually pressed and then they're actually fentanyl based. So- Yeah, you have to do it really carefully. It's sketchy.

Coke is cut with fentanyl. We had a hundred... So, you have to understand addiction is the leading cause of death in America for 50-year-old individuals and younger. I mean, just kind of keep that in mind. We had 100,000 people just this last year die from overdoses. That's not with dealing with heart attacks, cirrhosis of the liver, all that. It's purely overdoses. That's just purely overdoses over 100,000 people. And it's the only disease in American history

that's been on a steady incline with the amount of people dying with a steady decline with the amount of success. Wow. It's one of these charts going like this as opposed to

it should be going up together. And the pandemic. I've seen so many people that I would never... They're like, I'm drinking more. I'm taking more pills. So sad.

Even when you watch some of the reality TV show, you can tell like something's off. Yeah. You know? It's so sad. You guys know what the number one form of happiness is, right? What? Longest living study at Harvard.

You know what it is? What? Human connection. Yeah. I did not know that. It is. Whoa, that just gave me chills. And you wonder why, again, as I think that the tip of the spear is, this is my belief, right? I'm not a doctor. I'm

not, I mean, just working in the space, I've been around it for so long. I think we have not even come close to seeing what the repercussions are from the mental health standpoint from 2020. Oh, sure. That's such an interesting topic that you bring that up and kind of on a tangent. I was talking to Michael the other day. I'm like, I feel like the world was in fear for two years and now everyone's burnt out. And I think that people don't acknowledge the micro traumas that everyone has been through.

And I think there's going to be almost like a PTSD from this that we haven't even hit yet. Yeah. 100%. 100%. 100%. Every single morning without fail, I start with my chlorophyll water. I like love it. It's become a routine.

So what I do is I wake up, I do my light movement hydration, open the shades. I try to get some meditation in. And then I do one of those tanks cups that everyone has on Instagram because it makes the water freezing cold with tons of ice. And I fill it to the top. And then I do a couple of drops of chlorophyll and also the beauty minerals. And both of these are by Saqqara Life. I am so obsessed that I harassed the brand.

Like I emailed them and said, can you please send me more? I ran out and then I emailed them. I'm like, can you send me more? Can you send me more? Can you send me more? Even to the point where I'm using my own code. I've got my dad on chlorophyll. It's so good for your blood, your brain, your gut health. There's so many benefits, you guys. I've been talking about it on the Skinny Confidential forever. And now to have it just as a part of my routine, it's just been seamless. So I feel like everyone needs to get on board with these drops. I talked to one of my doctors about it and he said, if there's one thing that you can incorporate in your daily routine,

look into chlorophyll. So definitely check it out. Sakara Life really gets it when it comes to the drops, the chlorophyll and the beauty drops. I'm telling you, it's the move. Sakara Life, if you didn't know, is a wellness company that's anchored in food as medicine, and they're on a mission to nourish your body through the power of plants, hence the chlorophyll. They also have breakfast, lunches, and dinners that are made with powerful plant-based ingredients that you can order and get straight to your door. All their meals are designed to boost your energy, support digestion, and curb sugar cravings, and keep your skin glowing, which we love. Okay. And right now, Saqqara is offering our listeners 20% off their first order when they

go to saqqara.com slash skinny or intercode skinny at checkout. That's saqqara, S-A-K-A-R-A dot com slash skinny. You get 20% off your first order at saqqara.com slash skinny. Get the freaking chlorophyll drops and tag me in your stories. But that's why it's important to have conversations like this because I think more knowledge is power. Yeah. So when you decided to get sober and you're on a date with Ashley, was this it? Were you sober from then on out and and how did you sort of support that were you guys dating at all ever in between like when you give us like kind of your journey together of how that was working so we didn't talk for a year after we met at the club

and then when he started when he started coming into the restaurant in geisha house that's when we decided to go on a date i actually was going to fit him and i was finishing my degree. And he, I don't know how we reconnected. I think through social media, like Facebook or something. And we ended up trying to get together and our schedules weren't working out. And then finally we went out on our first date. We went to Ovo Trisante in Brentwood.

I used to love that restaurant. I remember it so well. And it's actually a funny story because of the stage five clinger ear horn situation. Oh, I forgot about that. When Jason came to pick me up, he did not have a date planned. He just said, hey, do you care if we go and hang out with a few of my friends? So Jason did not take girls on dates anymore because there were so many

psycho fans that he had to take girls on group dates in case he had to leave the girl with his friends. Yes. Seriously. What a move. Yeah. It was a move. Yeah. It was that bad? Yeah.

It was really weird. Like, I mean, this shit that I, like, that was. Because I imagine people are, it's hard to decipher who's dating you for you and who's dating you for what they think you are. 100%. Yeah. Wait, what do you mean?

Like, they would like, what are they doing? Michael had a girl that chewed glass. What? That was weird. That's pretty legit. That's really weird that was weird listen

you know that was weird it was kind of a turn on too at the same time he was chewing glass but yeah so they were just right through the wine glass

they would just be so weird that you couldn't even it would just be overly it would be like overkill with what they do to the point of like it being super uncomfortable and awkward

and like I literally wanted people there like I don't know if they were going to try to sue me or like what you know what I mean it was of like it being super uncomfortable and awkward and like I literally wanted people there like I don't know if they're going to try to sue me or like what you know I mean it was just like it was like

for anything I and I also have to understand I was in a super sick state of mind like this like that last year

two years it was like it was almost protection for myself too you know just because I was I was such a bad alcoholic but you were sober then

I know but I'm saying in general when I started doing that towards it it was just more of like to make sure how does it work 100% exactly so you go on a date a bad alcoholic. But you were sober then. I know, but I'm saying in general when I started doing that towards the end, it was just more of like to make sure it was cool, you know,

100%. So you go on a date with his friends? Well, there was like a nutritionist and then like another friend. I don't look like I was in shape, you know?

And then another friend, I think there were two more friends. I think Brendan came with us and then your nutritionist and then maybe one more person. And then we ended up like leaving them. It's such a good memory. I don't remember. I remember exactly what I was wearing too. I was wearing like these came with us and then your nutritionist and then maybe one more person and then we ended up like leaving them memory i don't i remember exactly what i was wearing too i was wearing like these

like probably cheap lace-up boots from melrose and like this shirt gray shirt that had like a skull on it or something i don't know i can i can spot the time and like remember the really tight tight skirts that you used to wear the bandageage skirts? I think I was wearing one of those with like the lace up heel boots. You guys should be yourself for Halloween one year. Oh, it would be so fun. So did you fall in love with him the first date or was it not like that at all?

First date, I think it wasn't necessarily that I fell in love with him, but I felt like this really weird sense of home. My parents have been married for 32 years. I grew up in an Italian family, very strong like Catholic morals. And his family was a very big family too. His parents had been married for a really long time. So we automatically kind of hit it off with having that very strong family dynamic. And we left his friends and we

literally laughed the whole entire car ride. And I just felt like this weird sense of peace. I don't know. It was like a feeling of home. So at this point, had you already been on Celebrity Rehab? Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, you were done with it. Yeah, I didn't date you

when I was on Celebrity Rehab. Let me ask you a personal question. And Jason, please don't take offense. But when you see someone that's struggling and they've been on Celebrity Rehab and they've been on television, but you still have the foresight to be like, hey, this is my person.

Like, what are you seeing and what are you able to ignore? Because I think a lot, you know what I mean? Like a lot of people would look at this and be like, oh, this is a fix-it project maybe, right? And I don't mean that offensively. Yeah. None taken.

So honestly, I had no idea about addiction. I grew up, like my parents gave me alcohol when I was eight, you know, with like a little glass of wine with dinner because that's just what was very normal in my family because we grew up very Italian. So maybe you weren't like, you didn't realize like what real addiction was. I really had no idea what addiction was.

And this is such like 2009, like people weren't even talking about struggling with addiction or anything like that. So when he had told me though that he, you know, the first thing he said to me actually in the car was, listen, my sobriety is number one. Nothing comes before that.

Not you, not anybody, number one, and God. And without that, I literally have nothing. And so that moment on, I didn't drink around him for like a year. Wow. Like literally stopped drinking

as a support to him because I felt like, I'm not, you know, drinking for me is not like really a big deal. Whatever I could do to be a support to him,

I loved him. So whatever I could do, because we used to go out, we would go to hide, we would have fun and I wouldn't drink around him because I didn't want him tasting alcohol in my breath. You know, I just felt like it was kind of rude. So yeah, I didn't drink for like almost a year. That's pretty amazing. Yeah. I want to go back because I feel like we skipped celebrity rehab. Okay. What was that experience like? Is that what we see is what we get?

It's pretty, pretty is what you see is what you get. And I mean, I went on there, you know, I went on there to change the public's negative perception of the way they perceive me, you know, just as a whole. You did, you did a really good job. I appreciate that. And I mean, I went in sober. So I had like, I think like 20 days, 20, like maybe 30 days sober.

I forget the exact amount of time I was actually in a treatment center, came back and then I transitioned into there. So like I said, I kind of had my own motives of going in there. And I also respected Drew and I like Bob. And I thought that they had- I think Bob Forrest, I love Drew. He's been on here. Hi, Drew. But I think Bob Forrest is an angel sent from somewhere else. I mean, that guy, even with us for some things, he just wants to help people. He does. He's a great guy. Again, so having those two guys, which I love and respect dearly. And again, they've been so He does. He's a great guy. the motions and you have to remember I'm in there with you know Leif Garrett Janice Dickinson you know Jason Davis I mean there there was some people that were really coming off some heavy

detox so it was almost like for me it was like a being on a tv show but watching a tv show I was like a background prop I am obsessed with Janice Dickinson and I'll tell you why I like I'm attracted to people that you never know what's going to come out of their mouth, aka my producer Taylor. Like,

she's, she's like on another planet and the best way I've read all her books, she's lived a crazy life. Was she, is she how she is? Yep.

Like tons of thousands. We hang out with Janice. Yeah, we love her. I've been friends with her for years. You should have her on here I bet she'd come on here she's the best

I would die yeah she's awesome I think I would stop talking to her weren't you trying to work that out I was talking to her on Instagram but like I don't know

I feel maybe you guys can say that like Lauren's obsessed with her I love her she and the coolest story about her she's doing phenomenal she actually married a psychiatrist

from UCLA yeah that's cool yeah so she like she's really that's why you can't really haven't heard from UCLA. That's cool. That's why you can't really haven't heard from her. She's doing really, really well. I'll connect you too. Yeah, she's the best.

She is exactly what you see is what you get. To your point, that's how she is. I mean, I'll never forget when we had her up in Arrowhead. We were on the boat to the village and it was like, oh shit, dude, we're going out in public. I love her, like, but just all these,

you know, all these families and stuff and it's just, she gets off the, and she's just, it's who she is. She goes through the grocery store and she starts opening

all the lotion bottles and putting them on her body like she owns the fucking store. I'm like, Janice, what are you doing? We haven't purchased these dishes. Like, I don't care.

Like just putting them on her body. She's like, I'm so, my skin's so dry. I'm dying. Oh my God. She is like, she's a cartoon character. She's legit. She's amazing. Okay, so go my skin's so dry. I'm dying. Oh my God. She is like, she's a cartoon character.

She's legit. She's amazing. Okay, so go ahead. So you're in the house. Did you name everyone you're in the house with? You said Leif Garrett, Jason Davis. Yeah, Jeremy London. Jeremy Jackson in there too?

No, not Jeremy Jackson. Rachel, you could tell Tiger Woods, like main mistress. Jason, Frankie, Keisha Cole's mom. And then. And then... And no one can hook up and no one can do any substance. Correct. And I don't think anybody hooked up. No. Oh, and Eric Roberts was in there with us. Julia Roberts. Brother?

Brother. Eric Roberts. Emma Roberts has been? Did you like the experience and did it actually help? I thought it for... So as a person in there, yes, I gained education and stuff like that. And from a viewer, because I actually watched other seasons and stuff like that, I think for somebody to get an understanding and to get more education, I think Dr. Drew is a very well educated doctor and he does a very good job at explaining stuff. So I think there is an

educational component for the audience, but as a person in there, yes, I took stuff away for sure. That's cool. Let me ask you this one. It's kind of a strange TV deal, right? Because you're going through the throes of addiction. And then they're like, hey, but come on here and do it on television. So there's like the television deal agent manager component, but then you're also going in to get sober. Is that strange to navigate? Carrie Uma have been saving my feet from gaining weight with pregnancy. It's been a bitch on my feet. I've like literally had to go to a foot spa for two hours a week. I've had to stretch my ankles. I've had to roll my foot on a tennis ball and I've had to find new shoes. And thank God for these shoes because they're super classic and

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He's had to switch them out recently because of his back. Yeah, I've done some damage to myself. Boots aren't speaking to me so good anymore or not treating me so well either. So yeah, that's why I love these things. And I love a good pair of white sneakers. I got mine in white and they are really goddamn comfortable.

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slash skinny for 15% off only for a limited time. Again, the ones that I like are the Akas. It was awkward. I mean, because the producers, again, not Drew, I want to be very clear, but the producers were like, hey, you got 25, 30 days of sobriety, whatever it was.

Like, do you mind relapsing? I was like, no, bro. What? You didn't tell me this. What the? People are fucked. That's gnarly. Yeah, for TV components. Are you fucking serious? I remember my dad's like, that's when he was just like, he just lost his shit.

Oh, Ashley's like, I'm going to pizza with that. I know you're an adult at 22, but at that age, again, I was literally had the personality of a 14-year-old kid. You know what I mean? Or just the wherewithal of a 14-year-old kid. Even though I was 22, I just lost all sense of everything. That is gnarly.

Yeah. So you had a good experience besides that. You meet Ashley. You're sober. Is anything going on after that or are you're sober is is anything going on after that or are you just sober after that

I was sober for a long time almost five years almost five years yeah and then did you guys get married within that five years

yeah we got married we had like the perfect cookie cutter orange county life we got married we bought a house we got a golden retriever yeah

king lou and when did you have your first daughter? We had not had her until Jason was actually not sober anymore. So do you want to tell the story? Yeah. Well, so we got married 10, 12, 13. We got married that date.

Oh, what's our date? We got married, do you remember? 10, 12, 13. Yeah. That's literally why we did it. I wanted to do 11, 12, 13. It was taken. The weather was kind of funky. I got married to Melvin.

But no, after having the five years of sobriety and obviously did a ton of work on myself to get to where I was at. And down the road as life got busy and stuff, I stopped doing the things that I did to get me sober. And my program went off track and other things became more important. I'd lost sight of God.

I'd lost sight of my routine I'd lost sight of my routine. I lost sight of my structure. And actually- You were taking pills. Yeah. Well, I actually went to a psychiatrist and somebody that knows my history. And I said, hey, man, like, you know, and I was prescribed at like 12, 11, 12 years old with ADD.

I was prescribed Adderall at a young age, hated it, never, you know, never thought anything of it. So I went and saw the psychiatrist with no intent of actually abusing it, honestly, because my life was, everything was in order. I had a really good job, all these things, but I just, again, wasn't doing the things I needed to do, self-care and stuff like that. And so I wanted to, you know, instant gratification, even though looking back, I know all the things I could have done differently and got prescribed to Adderall

after five, I would say five years of sobriety, started taking it within three months. I ended up getting prescription dyslexia. And so taking one every four hours, I would take four every one hours. And it just became this domino effect where I was up to about 300 to 400 milligrams a day of Adderall. Adderall makes you, I feel like if I even took a 20 milligram or 10, I would be so irritable. Were you so irritable? I was fucking taking apart my shredder. I was like tweaking. It's pharmaceutical synthetic grade. It's hair. I mean, it's meth. It's pharmaceutical synthetic grade meth. This is the reason I wanted to have you guys on though

is this conversation because I would like to hear your side of when this, like, did you start to know that he was like, like kind of like jonesing maybe to do something? Did you feel that? Was the energy changing? Like what was your, your vibe during all of this? First off, I think it like down traits too from my family dynamic. Like my mom's very codependent and I always was taught like, take care of your husband. Like he's

kind of the one that's responsible. He's the one in charge, you know? So when I had met Jason and he was having, I mean, he was like the breadwinner of the family. He was the one that had everything kind of in order. So I never really thought anything was wrong until I kind of started noticing the alcohol, I remember, in the garage. So just for clarity, just real quick, clarity, Adderall was about six, seven months where I was trying to manage that. And I was getting sleep deprived. I was literally like hallucinating shit because I would be up for days. I couldn't sleep. So I had to start drinking this.

I literally started drinking to fall asleep. And I remember the first time we were in, we had our garage. And I remember the first time I found that alcohol. And I remember you lied to me and you were like, no, it's not mine. It's our neighbor. Chaz.

Yeah. Sorry, Chaz. I did say that. I remember that. That it was our neighbors from next door. And I was like, okay. You know, like totally aloof. Was this just hard liquor that like you're just like...

Yeah, like whiskey or something. And I just remember like my gut, I think was telling me something was wrong, but I did not want to believe that that was my life because I didn't have support. I didn't know what to do. I didn't have any tools. I didn't have any programs. I really didn't have any tools. I didn't have any programs. I really

didn't have any idea of what to do. Like I always thought, okay, my husband's sober. He's gonna be sober forever. So everything's gonna be fine until he's not sober. And then I'm like, shit, well, is he going to be okay? And then I'd ask him. And then that's when the manipulation starts, because now, great, Jason's got caught. No, honey, I'm fine. Like everything's great. Don't worry about it. And then- How did you, did you not notice he was so irritable at all?

Oh, for sure. Like towards, towards like the end. But you get so, you get so good at the lying, conniving, the manipulation where it's like, oh, it's work. It's because I'm dealing with addicts. I'm dealing with all this stuff. You know, people are, I mean, the pressures

and the other sad part is, is I'm dying inside is, but I'm also trying to help save people's lives. people are, I mean, the pressures. And the other sad part is I'm dying inside, but I'm also trying to help save people's lives. Like where, again, that doesn't make any sense. But I was literally working 90, 100 hour weeks. You almost believe that lie yourself. A hundred percent. For sure. So it's easy to lie because it's like you believe.

And Ashley, I imagine that you, all you want to do is protect your husband from also your friends and family, making sure that he looks good too. So that's such a like hard position for you to be in. Yeah. And you have to remember like Jason's working in the treatment facility. That's like what was our income.

And so he would say like, if you tell anybody about this, like we're not going to have our, I'm not going to have my job. So of course then I'm like, well shit, now I'm living with this huge lie. I don't really have anyone to turn to because here's like Jason, you know, everyone's looking up to this man. And here we are living with this horrible secret. So it was just like sick. Like I was addicted to his addiction. I would check up on him. I would look for things. I would look through his bags and him and I would fight. He would be, the manipulation was crazy. I was a

doormat, like everything you could ever imagine of what it's like to live with like an addict or an alcoholic. That's what it is. to live with like an addict or an alcoholic that's what it is but then also i'm deteriorating as a person because i'm starting to live this lie that i don't even know what reality is like i could not even tell you what my favorite color was what i like to do who i was i had no idea because i was so lost in this like false sense of reality of our life that i almost didn't want to believe it was true. So I kept pretending like it wasn't. The scary part though is like when I was, when I used to use way back in the day, it was like, dude, guaranteed you'd get in trouble, arrested, something would happen. Right. And the scary part is, is only she knew I'm working with

doctor, I'm working with nobody knows. And so that I was able to, I'm sure now that all makes sense to have talked to a lot of people and they're like, yeah, obviously now like we can see outlined up, but I was able to mask and even manipulate people with that which was the scariest part now is because now i'm able to hide this you know i mean from all of them and just kept getting deeper and deeper and this is a primary chronic and progressive disease do you start to believe that you have it under control i did yes for a while i did and then i'm managing this correct and then and then it got to a point where obviously everything that she's saying, I mean, internally, it was basically we were imploding from the inside out,

you know, as opposed to usually it was from the outside in. This was all happening internally. Let me ask one more question because you, and tell me if this is not your quote, because I wonder like you, and maybe we skipped over this a little bit, but you went to the psychiatrist or therapist, you got Adderall,

but it says here, relapse begins before someone even picks up a drink. I don't know if it's attributed to you, but were you in a certain mindset that like you started kind of slipping back to it even before? Yeah, and that's what I was saying. There's a big difference between being abstinence

of drugs and alcohol versus living a life in recovery. Like I'm sure you've heard the term, you know, you're a dry drunk, right? And so that's just the mannerisms and the behaviors. That's what I was saying. So I stopped doing everything that I needed to do to stay sober. Like I have a very structured routine and structure creates consistency,

which creates safety. And that's for most, that's with kids, right? If they're on routine and stuff, they do very well. As an addict for me and for me as my alcoholism, when I have routine and structure, I'm in a much more safe place. I need to have, I need that structure in my life. And a lot of that stuff went by the wayside. Again, as I was starting to lie, I was starting to manipulate. I was starting to do things where on a daily basis now, I mean, just like one of the things I do at the end of the day to clean up the wreckage of my past is actually do a little bit of an inventory. Look at where are the things that I did wrong? Who do I need to make amends with? And what are the things that I did right? What are the things that I did

good? And so it's like, there's a whole process that I have that I'm happy to share that I do on a daily basis. That's what I was just going to ask you. If you could share that with the audience, like just on like a side note of what those things are. Yeah. So in the morning, look, the first thing I do is when I wake up, I do a morning meditation. I do a prayer and I actually do a gratitude list of three things I'm grateful for. Not only what, but why. That's where the meat of everything is. And then I get up and I spend time with my daughter and my son. I mean, I always take that first 30, 40 minutes with them. And it's an important side note is the first 20 minutes of

your day will dictate how the rest of your day goes. So whatever you are inputting into your life in that first 20 minutes will really outline how the rest of your day is going to go. So I always put something very positive into my mind. And then I always incorporate the gym is a very important thing. I mean, your brain produces more potent chemicals than heroin. You just got to let it work. So exercise is a huge thing for me. I do at least three to four times a week. And then I have, there's a core group of guys that I meet with, especially during COVID. I used to go to meetings all the time, but there's a core group of people that I get together with on a multiple times throughout the week. I call them like accountability buddies, people that we can hold accountable. They're more mentors than

anything, much older, but a safe place to be able to go. And then I'm of service. You know, I kind of live my mantra. My day is do something nice for somebody who don't get caught. And that's kind of how I go about my day, honestly. And I try to be of service as much as I possibly can, which is a big part of my program. And then again, as incorporating God, I have a Bible study that I do with a bunch of guys on Thursday mornings.

And then I go to church every Sunday. And so those are kind of the main structural pieces that I have in there. And then at the end of the night, like one of the biggest things that I started doing now is this daily reprieve though, is doing an inventory and taking ownership and accountability of my day, right? Like, okay, if we were driving up here and I flick somebody off, fucking guy couldn't drive, whatever it is, just those little things that you don't think add up.

Those are little dominoes that fall. And that's when active addiction can kind of come into place. If I don't take ownership and accountability for the things that I have done, before you know it, it's a week down the road, all these little dominoes that I could have picked back up get too heavy and now they're just starting to take off. Do you understand that analogy I'm explaining? I'm copying you on this. It's amazing. So it allows me the opportunity and it gives me an opportunity to be credible for myself and pat myself on the back. It's not always this negative thing. It's like, hey, man,

there's amazing things that you did today. There's texts that I've gotten in the last few. I mean, that's why I love what I do is to get texts from people's daughters, from their husbands or wives. That's pretty incredible. You saved my... Somebody's a very dear friend of mine

whose wife passed away. He's a very, very successful individual, but was really struggling the last couple of years of his life. He was sober the last two years of his life before his wife died. And to have the whole family reach out and just say, we can't thank you. And again, that's the motivation and the beauty behind this. And so I know I've kind of, sorry, I rabbit holed all this. No, no. It's interesting. But that service piece is so big. But that inventory piece for me is like, when I have something bad, I can fix it.

There's something I can do immediately. And that way I start my next day, it's completely fresh. I don't have shit from yesterday. Lauren, I don't know if you know this. What? But I've been on fire lately. People are very interested in the supplements. And here's the real deal.

This is a no BS, real deal. What I do every single day of the week, literally every single day, never a day off. When I travel anywhere, anytime, any place, if I could only bring one supplement with me, only one, and usually I bring almost a suitcase full, but if I could only bring one, that would be my athletic greens

because it has everything. It is an amazing multivitamin. You get all of your greens, you get a probiotic. It is jam packed with nutrients. And this is literally my morning routine. Lauren wants to know. I wake up with the dog before the crack of dawn, before anybody, we go downstairs. I pour a huge glass of water with a teaspoon of sea salt and then a heaping scoop of athletic greens to start my day. Do you use my frother to froth it? Because it's the best with the frother. I don't. I use a shaker to shake it, but you could use a frother.

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slash skinny to take ownership of your health and pick the ultimate daily nutritional insurance. athleticgreens.com slash skinny. You know, it's funny. I take inventory of my day, but I only think of all the things I did wrong. But you said something in there that I'm going to do. I also need to think of the things I've done right too. Correct. I think that that's a mistake to just be like, sometimes I can be hard on myself.

Also adding in the things you did right. That's really, really cool. I love, I'm going to copy on that and be like. Everybody's so hypercritical on themselves. You know what I mean? Really, everybody needs to give themselves more grace with stuff is because we're our biggest... I mean, we're so negative.

I'm so negative on me that I have to constantly remind myself like, dude, chill out. Like you've gone through the ringer, you know? And it's... Again, it's nice to be able to be kind to yourself. I'm going to take inventory that I was 20 minutes late. That's one thing I did wrong today. We just did a podcast with this guy, Ethan Cross.

He wrote a book called Chatter. And a lot of it was like the voices that's in our, or basically what's in our mind. And he said for, you know, study after study just shows like how hard we are. Like we say things to ourselves that you would never say even to your worst enemy, right? Bitty, bitty, shitty committee.

That's what we call it. Yeah. Ashley, when did you see Jason? He said you were imploding from the inside out. What was the last straw where it was like, you need to go get help. I can't deal with this anymore. It's too big for me. I had a moment like that with my sister and I literally just, I had, you had to, she said it earlier, you had to surrender. So there were like a few because it happened a few times. But when we... So we ended up having to sell our house. Jason, on top of it, had like a really bad gambling addiction

that was on top of the drinking and everything else. And just for the audience to have context, was the gambling addiction before the drugs and alcohol addiction? Or was it simultaneously? It was simultaneous sports betting. Yeah, really bad. So we ended up selling our house. And then it was kind of like this thing because I was heartbroken Simultaneously. It was simultaneous sports bets. Sports betting. Yeah, really bad. So we ended up selling our house.

And then it was kind of like this thing because I was heartbroken when we had to sell our house because I... Jason grew up very different than I did. I did not grow up with money. My parents always had like hand-me-down furniture. So this was like a house

that we moved into where everything was like restoration hardware custom. You know, I was very attached to my things at the time because I never really had like super nice things. Whereas Jason had grown up on jets and always had really beautiful built houses. You know, his dad was a home builder. So everything, you know, they'd always lived in like fresh homes and everything was great. But so when we had to sell our house,

it was very heartbreaking for me. And, you know, Jason always promised, you know, this house has really bad memories for me. So this is also where the manipulation comes into place. If we move, I'll get sober because this house has bad memories now. So if we move, it'll be better. I'll get sober in this house. I don't have any bad memories. So I remember we moved. We moved to Corona Del Mar. We lived in this really beautiful house close to the beach. And can I just really quick ask too, did you know the reason you were moving was because of the gambling addiction or were you manipulated into thinking

it was something else? No, I knew it was. I knew it was a gambling addiction. And had you talked about it or was it something you just knew inside? I mean. It was so much money I couldn't hide it. It was just, yeah.

It was just. And do you tell your friends and family or do you protect him? No, I don't say anything. Yeah, that's what I would do too. Bookie's going to come break your legs type situation or is it? No, I was always just good about my payments. And I mean, it just got to a point where I ended up stopping,

but everything was so backed up now that I was just kind of like, and I was in such a bad place where kind of needed, it was kind of like we had so much equity in the house. It was kind of like, I just want to clear clear everything and you become addicted to keeping a secret yes so that's what she i want you to talk but that's what people need to understand is wherever there's an alcoholic or an addict there's a codependent and sometimes they're just as sick if not sicker yeah so now i'm just contributing to the disease because i'm not saying anything i'm letting everything happen and i kept thinking like if i say anything, my life's going to fall apart. But my life was a fucking mess. You know

what I mean? So it doesn't matter. I think I had this false sense of reality that if I say something, something bad is going to happen. But I was already living in disaster, you know, so it didn't matter. But well, well, I'll stop and then I'll keep going into our house. And then when I ended up like putting my foot down. So we actually moved to our house and things were still getting bad and they were getting worse. And I thought, maybe if I have a baby, it'll get better. You know, I kept thinking like,

maybe if we have a kid, he'll get sober. I kept thinking- A lot of people think that too. So this is probably helping a lot of people. Yeah. A lot of variables thinking that, okay, if we bring a kid in the mix, he'll have to get sober because we'll have a kid. We'll be so

busy. That didn't happen. And it got to the point where I was so close to having the baby. And I said, there's no fucking way I'm going to have this kid by myself. Like it had just gotten so bad. That's when you were taking a ton of Adderall. You were drinking like a fifth of vodka, like a day practically. I mean, it was in front of you no I would go to sleep I was super pregnant I was exhausted I would go to sleep in the room and he would be in the office like up all night drinking by himself he'd like go down to the liquor store in a in a hoodie and then come back and I was like I remember one day he came in it's like really sad but he would came in and I was super pregnant and he kind of started crying and he's like fuck like you're like really pregnant

like I don't even barely remember like you being pregnant like you're about to have a baby and I was super pregnant and he kind of started crying and he's like fuck like you're like really pregnant like I don't even barely remember like you being pregnant like you're about to have a baby and I'm like yep this is me it's really it's like really hearing you talk it's really really sad but it's it's your addiction and I think that it it's helped so many people who are listening that have addiction I mean it's it's it's a true disease i mean it's it's super cunning baffling and powerful but it also again is it's we've we've made you know we've cleared the wreckage but it's also it's it's hard to hear the damage that we do because again is it's such a self selfish and self-centered disease where you don't really realize a lot of this is happening because where ashley's about to go is i was actually on the first floor at Hoag Hospital

while she was giving birth to Delilah on the fourth floor. He was in detox when I had Delilah. I had to AWOL him. So I- What does AWOL mean? Like basically, AWOL is basically where you take him out without him being cleared. So he hadn't been cleared yet in detox.

I needed it, not AWOL, babe. It's AMA. I had an AMA. You leave against medical advice and so long story short is I was in detox for 48 hours Ashley's water broke I got the call like I was sleeping you know all you do when you're coming off of that much Adderall so you just sleep for days and so then I got woken up and like your wife's coming into the hospital she's getting she's going to be up the fourth floor. So I actually was sober.

I mean, you know, coming up there for the most part. Which was heavily detoxing. Heavily detoxing off of like tons of Adderall. And you're like, shut the fuck up. I'm about to squeeze out fucking baby. Oh, you have no idea. I know you little bitch. Michael is complaining about how sleep deprived he is. Oh, I cannot even.

So I call them because I tell them, I'm like, I just want to let you guys know I'm about to have a fucking baby any day now. Like my mom had come into town. Now my mom knows because I told my mom, I'm like, I don't know what to do. Like, I'm going to have this baby. Jason needs to go to detox.

And I remember calling his parents. His parents were like shocked. Like, what? What do you mean he's in detox? I'm like, well, I'm about to have a baby and he's going to detox and this is what's happening. And I remember calling them and telling them, like, I'm in triage.

I'm about to have the baby. And they're like, the guy on the phone, can you just let him sleep for a few more hours? I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? Like get his ass upstairs. I'm about to have a baby right now. He can wake up like, oh, can you just let him sleep a little longer? I'm like, no. So he gets up and comes up. He gets up, comes up. And I remember we were both really emotional because he was like sober, thank God, for the birth of Delilah. But he was just like exhausted. And only it lasted about five, six days. And then because I didn't actually rest the disease

and get stabilized, I went back out for about six months. And that's what's really important too that I want to touch a topic on because, yeah, because of the fact that I did pull him out of detox, he didn't go back to residential. He didn't actually get

the support that he needed. So he ended up using again after like a week. What do you mean you went back out? Like you went back using? Meaning back to using. Using. So how are you using

if you just had a baby? Are you in the same household or you're just... Yeah. I have a brand new baby. He didn't go through the process well enough. He just was basically...

Yeah, so basically I went to... I was in detox, went and watched All I'll of people. What I should have done is I should have went back into a program because... So, I didn't actively arrest the disease or get stabilized. Meaning, I went back to the house. This was... Had five, six days of sobriety, no support system, no therapy, no psychiatry. Which sounds impossible for anyone. It really is. And again, part of... She just had the kid and I was able to kind of like

just mask it all, you know, and ended up going out for another six months until I actually was intervened on by my, my, one of our dear friends, Ashley, my parents. And, and it was kind of like the biggest relief though, is because even though I went into detox that time, still nobody really knew what was going on. I mean, maybe five, five, six people. And then when I actually went to treatment. This was seven months when Delilah was about seven months old. It was not everybody knew. And it was crazy

because it was kind of like God, it's amazing how God works and brings humility to the situation. So there's people that were coming through the hospital doing tours or all people that I used to work with or that worked for me. And it was just a very humbling experience. And it was kind of like this,

a big weight that was lifted off my shoulders of like having to live this lie. I mean, I'll never forget. I flew out to Washington, DC and I got the Voice of Recovery Award from Congress and I did not have eight years of sobriety. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Not Congress, but it's from Voices of Recovery. I mean, it was out in Washington, DC. Again, that's what your disease does. I think I had like 30 days of sobriety at that time. Do they let you keep that award? I would, I need to give it back to them. I need to give it back.

But can you imagine living with that like shame? So on top of it, like he's receiving this award. I'm here knowing that he's lying about everything. So now I'm already resentful. And I'm getting praise for all I did. And you have postpartum. And you're a participant now. And I had a baby that's colicky that literally cries for six months straight. It was hell. And yeah, I remember

I got so nervous. So basically you're in like the twilight zone. You know, I hadn't slept in so long. I had no idea what the fuck I was doing with Delilah. I was in a trauma lifestyle anyway. And on top of it, she's crying. And I'm sure that's because I was so stressed throughout my whole pregnancy that when I brought her into this world, she was probably like, put me back. Like, this is not safe. You know, like I'm scared. I ended up having her. And then close to seven months, I remember, I remember just Jason, like he was, he was never abusive or anything like that. But I just remember being very nervous because he would pick her up and hold her. And I thought, fuck, this is not good. If he's drunk, he goes in there and picks her up. What if he drops

her? Yeah. They're so like fragile at that. So fragile. The open fontanelle area. I like, oh my God, I can't even talk about that area. It's so delicate. So it's just, it's just, it's just scary. And I think that's when I finally, cause you know, you're like six months in. So you're like a little more alert of the situation. And you're like, all right, this is not going to happen anymore. Like this was- Yeah, but you also were like putting your head on my chest to make sure I was still breathing.

Yeah, it was bad. There was so much trauma. Like, I mean, because when I- So much. The amount that we, I'm just lucky I didn't die from the usage. You know what I mean? Just from heart attacks or whatever. But I remember just waking up in her head, I'd be like, what are you doing?

She's like, I'm just making sure you're alive. Yeah. You mentioned suicide. Is this before or after? Way before. Well, so the actual attempts were before Ashley,

but the suicidal ideations, all they came, like, I mean, what I use, like, it's not, I'm in a horrible place.

There's no, there's, what is, can you explain that to anyone that doesn't understand what that means? Suicidal ideations. It's just basically

the thought processes of wanting to kill yourself and kind of like planning, planning out what that means. Suicidal ideations. It's just basically a thought processes of wanting to kill yourself and kind of like planning out what that would look like, just being suicidal. So you like actually like think of like ways that you would do it and the drugs enhance that. Yes. And so again, is when I use,

this is the way I explain my use, right? It's at first drinking and using was fun. It became a lifestyle and then it became a way of survival. So when I actually go and use again, like if I'm using, it's not like, hey, let's go have a beer and let's go watch the races

or let's go do this. Maybe that would work for a week or two, but I mean, when I'm out and I'm drinking, I'm the type of person that will drink like a fifth before I go out with you and be like, all right, bro, let's have a couple of beers, even though I'm already,

like there's no fun left in it. Yeah, you're like, it's pretty blacked out before you and be like, all right, bro, let's have a couple of beers. Even though I'm already like, there's, there's no fun left in it. Like you're, you're like, it's pretty blacked out before even. Correct. It's, and I'm, I gotta be in, I'm in a miserable state of existence if I'm using or drinking. Like there's, I'm at that. I look at it. If you like compared it to, again, cancer is its own thing. But if like alcoholism was looked at as a cancer, like I'm a stage four alcoholic.

Like when I, if I'm drinking, it's because I'm trying to escape and I'm trying to get as far, far away as I can. As you guys know, we just interviewed Nicole of Ring Concierge. And she is so major and she is so knowledgeable when it comes to buying any kind of jewelry or diamond. I'm so inspired by her story because she's really a resource when it comes to the diamond industry. She's a founder that believes in transparency and it's such a male-dominated industry. So to be able to actually deal with a woman

who's so transparent and totally like gets the style and the taste of what you want is a home run in my opinion. You've probably seen her through a lot of celebrities and influencers. She's like the ultimate luxury jewelry designer. And what I like about her, especially after meeting her in person, is that you can tell that she has a real style about her

and she gets that each person is unique. So she's gonna work with you to create the most beautiful engagement ring or wedding ring or wedding band, whatever it is you're looking for. I'm even looking for like a specific bracelet and a necklace. And I've like gone back and forth with her over text. And she really listens to what you want. She's redefining the idea of luxury and fine jewelry for a new generation of women.

You want to buy your own freaking ring? Nicole's about it. The best part is you can keep building your collection. She has stacking rings, bracelets, necklaces. And of course, you can also go to her episode, Turn It Up, in front of your significant other and give them a little hint, hint, nudge, nudge. I'm sure you've seen this, but you can find Ring Concierge on Instagram at ringconcierge or on their website at ringconcierge.com. That's R-A-N-G-C-O-N-C-I-E-R-G-E.com. And I am so excited for you guys because she gave the listeners of the Skinny Confidential an exclusive 15% off code for all fine jewelry

at Ring Concierge with code SKINNYRING. So you're going to go to ringconcierge.com and use code SKINNY for 15% off. Use code SKINNYRING. And again, go listen to that episode if you want to know anything and everything about jewelry and diamonds. So after seven months, you got sober. You went to treatment. Yeah. Yes. You had an intervention on you. I'll never forget. We had to buy you booze just to get you to go. Can I ask you something

about treatment? Because it's like, you know, I have that video. There's a lot of, I think especially Orange County. I mean, this area that we've all grown up in,

Orange County, San Diego, LA, there's what I would call like the fancy rehabs. Like, eventually, I think when your sister got sober,

like it was, it was not fancy anymore. Like this was a place that you just, you don't want to be, right? It's like, it's, you know, you couldn't put this place on you don't want to be. It's like,

you couldn't put this place on television. Right. Of all the places you went, was there a certain type of facility that ended up helping the most? That's a good question. Yeah, that's good.

You bring up a really good question and I think, look. Not to diminish any of the ones that are high-end, but I think some of them it's like you're going

to having sushi and it's like, finally when Lauren's sister got sober, it was... you're right there was there was no glamour when Faye finally got sober

like it was not a glamorous place no you bring up a really like you bring up a phenomenal point and that's been the struggle and the trial in our own industry

is look treatment does work and recovery is possible but unfortunately for me personally there's out of the let's call it 15,500 facilities

I'd refer to about 10 to 15% because there's about the other 80%. There's probably a good chunk that are, there's 20% that are bad, that don't have the right practices, the right policies, procedures, the right doctors, the right psychiatrist. I mean, it's just, it's run and operated bad. And then there's others that just, they're just, they're just, they're, they cut corners, they do different things. And again, that's just my experience, right? Is take it or leave it. But, and I've been, I've worked in this space for a long time. I've seen a lot of facilities

and there are great programs out there. And it is, it is very, it's so individualized. It's not like one program, this one plush place is going to be better for her sister than this one non-plush, more indigenous type of facility that's run by the county. I mean, it's, it different strokes, different folks. And it honestly, it really comes down to the assessment. I think it's very clinically incentivized and we've learned that. So when somebody actually goes into treatment, it's so important that they're properly diagnosed, right? And I mean, I think that's one of the biggest things is so many people are misdiagnosed when they go into treatment. When they do these biopsych socials and get a full assessment of an individual, oftentimes you're getting somebody being schizophrenic. You're getting somebody that's

showing signs of bipolar or sleep deprivation, and you're misdiagnosing them when they're not even properly stabilized. So they're actually not getting the best type of care. And so I think, again, it's so important in the beginning stages that it's when you look for facilities, again, it is important to have, make sure, look at the's when you look for facilities again, it is important to have, make sure, look at the medical director, look at the doctor, look at his credentials, look, is he an ASAM certified doctor, addiction specialty in medicine? The psychiatrist, what is their background? What is their history? How long have they been in this? And that's one of the things is looking at all the staff, look at how long they've been in the space, look at the turnover

rate. Actually, when you go to a place, I highly recommend that you tour it. And when you are in there, you are actually able to, when you sign in, because you're signing away the HIPAA compliancy thing, when you're doing a tour, pull a client aside and say, hey, how's this program? Do you like it? Is it going well? Do your research. It's just like if you had cancer, you're not just going to go, I'm going to go check out this place on the corner. I'm going to go to Dr. Google and go to the highest paid Google search. It's like, do the due diligence, do the research around it and go in there. But it's like for me, any place that I send a family member, a loved one, friends and

stuff like that is I do the due diligence and I put my, I see, feel, touch it. And I go over there and I see how many times is the doctor, is the doctor running the case or is he handing it off to a nurse practitioner? There's so much information that you can really get. And again, it's a multifaceted disease. It is very complex and it's so important information that you can really get. And again, it's a multifaceted disease. It is very complex and it's so important to get versed on it. So people that are struggling with people that have addiction, like in this case with Ashley, my biggest advice for people in Ashley's shoes is to get educated. Yeah. Well, you need to have a resource podcast.

That was really... Even that bit of information. I feel like you should have a resource podcast for people who are struggling to go to. Listen, the reason I asked the question and I'm basing it like being ignorant to those type of facilities and places, but I try to consider myself somebody that does research and is educated. But even if even someone like me who's looking and is curious, like I still don't know, right? So I think there's many people that just have no fucking clue. You know what I would- Because it's not talked about, right?

But I think if I was using, like me, myself, and I wasn't ready to get sober, and I'm just being really self-aware, I would want to go to these bougie places because it's like, oh, while I, quote unquote,

get sober, I can get all of these different things. So do you think that sometimes people are going to these bougie recovery rehabs to just, I put it in quotes, get sober, but not really get sober? I mean, yeah, there's people that go to treatment and they're not in a place. I mean, again, you're talking to a guy that went to 13 or 14 different places, right? And there's many times when I went to treatment in Hawaii, I surfed all the time. There's times where... And again, the treatment was fine, but it was also... My motive wasn't to get sober and everybody is in a different point. And so I think there's... When people are going to treatment, I think there's people that are really going there and they're accustomed to a different type of lifestyle

and they want those types of amenities, whether it's a C-level executive, entertainer, whatever it may be. There's just a lifestyle that goes towards that and for a comfortability. And there's other people that obviously want to take advantage

of that situation. But for me, I went to treatment. I mean, I went to some nice places and I went to some very normal places. Can you say a name of the best place that you would recommend if someone's struggling or are you not allowed to say names?

I'm more than happy to do that, but it's so individualized. Because if somebody... What Mike's going through is completely different than what Ashley might be going through. It's different. That's the biggest thing is there's not a cookie cutter program. There's a really good primary eating disorder. There's a really good adolescent program. There's a really good mental health. There's a really good, you know, mental health.

There's dual diagnosis programs that people don't realize. Maybe a more like tangible or practical question is like, if you were going to start doing the research and try it, like say you're somebody that has a loved one that you want to get help for, where would you start? Like just- Well, we actually, so we actually have a, we actually started a nonprofit coming up on two years

and we gave away almost a million dollars in scholarships this last year. But one of our things is creating the most safe and trusted environment for people that are struggling with mental health and or addiction. So you can come to us and we can help you go through, navigate the situation that you're in to best point you in the right direction. We're not affiliated with any facilities, anything like that, but we actually have clinicians and case managers that will help direct you to the place that it could be the most appropriate, help you get educated, help you get versed on that. Because again, I want to point this out there, like I always say, Dr. Google, because people will go there and they go to these glorified business cards, being these

websites that get its highest SEOs. I used to have an agency and I don't know if I've ever talked about this, but we got approached by a lot of facilities, like treatment facilities, trying to get us to run traffic or to run SEO to rank them. And I always felt strange. We never actually ended up doing it

because it felt strange to kind of use marketing practices to rank facilities. Does that make sense? But I think to your point, a lot of people just go on Google and they see these things that populate because they're maybe doing marketing practices.

So my advice would be is talk to people. Everybody knows somebody that's gone through addiction. I mean, and if you haven't, again, is ask a doctor or ask friends, ask your church group, ask some type of, it's like a degree of separation to find somebody that's gone to treatment. Plug into a meeting.

Plug into a meeting. But it's asking people that have had success with that and sharing your story for relatability and connectivity. And then looking them up and going there. And then again, going over everything that we went over, looking at the turnover rate, looking at the credentials, looking at the doctor,

looking how long they've been around, look at what they treat and ask the questions. How are you going to best serve or will you treat somebody with my conditions? And go in there and have the conversation with them. And again, I wish it was just as simple, and that's what we're hoping to make Red Songbird Foundation for everybody that struggles with addiction. What's the Instagram if someone wants to go check it out? Red Songbird Foundation. Perfect. Yeah. So go there. And again, we have scholarship applications every month. So people

don't have the means to get the help that they need, we are here to provide that. And the other piece of that is for someone who feels that they've been an enabler or wants Al-Anon or something like that. Is there somewhere that you went after he went and got sober after those seven months that you had been postpartum? So I went to the family program, which is basically just like a few meetings at his treatment facility. And that was where I started plugging back into Al-Anon. But I will say, which is so interesting, and this is probably what a lot of people do, but I actually was going to Al-Anon when he was using and I was lying in Al-Anon. So I went there still pretending like my husband was sober, living this wonderful life, which is like the worst thing ever. That's when I was even the

sickest. So that's what I'm saying. That's why we're saying it's like two sides of a coin because Jason's over here telling his story, pretending like everything's fine. I'm here in meetings now lying about the fact that my husband's, he's sober, blah, blah, blah, and not really telling my true story. So I'm not getting any help. I'm just super sick, just as sick as he is. When he finally went into treatment and I finally went to one of my first Al-Anon meetings, I went to an all women's meeting. And I remember standing up and telling my story as if I had been to a meeting for the first time ever. And it was like freaking the heavens were parting. I just remember this huge weight lifted off my shoulder

and all these women coming up to me afterwards and being like, we're here for you. We'll give you all this list of numbers. You know, just having like a full support system. And it was the first time in my life where I felt like the shame started to being lifted off me. You know what I mean?

Like I started to feel less shameful. There really needs to be a program though for like the shit that she went through. There's no reason that she should be, I should have got different treatment than she did. There's's no way i should be able to go to a facility and get so much fucking treatment because he's over there getting treatment and help and here i am living with regret regret trauma all this new baby i mean there's so much you know what i mean it really needs to because there is places out there that help like with a week long or two

week long intensive but there really needs needs to be something for the families. Yeah. And like we've started. Yeah. Him and her facility. I mean, honestly, it would be incredible just having like a loved one to be able to go and just

get, could I use it? If Michael annoyed the fuck out of me, I could just go for like a week just to take a break from him. The resentment facility. The resentment foundation. Come release your resentments. So once you get sober i have to ask you what made you decide and we talked about this a little off air to do the hills again

well it was originally the the whole thought process of going back on so the so again is just for timeline of everything is relapse all right everything is go to treatment or go to detox. Delilah's born, relapse, get about seven, eight months, make the decision to go on the hills for the first time. And that was because, again, I feel like God was giving us an opportunity. For me, it was almost kind of like, hey, this could be a cool opportunity to show what recovery looks like again. Because again, I don't discredit everything I've learned over those last 10 years. But a lot of this was documented through all the different television appearances. what recovery looks like again. And because again, is I don't discredit everything I've learned over those last 10 years, right? But a lot of this was documented through all the different

television appearances. Well, from 2010 to Delilah being born, TV was, I wasn't on TV anymore. No. So there was a gap between that. But again, as I don't take away anything that I'd gone through, it's like, you know,

those fall downs were just added experiences for me. And I thought it'd be a great opportunity to have my story and Ashley's story to be able to be like, hey, look, here's the alcoholic side of it. Here's the codependent side of it. And we can share,

we can kind of navigate and have this opportunity. And that's really why we did it because honestly, at the beginning, I was like, I don't really know that we want to do it. And so once we actually made that decision to do it, again, is I was not in the right frame of mind. You were newly sober. Newly sober.

And I had a lot of my own insecurities that I was dealing with. Just with the way I looked, with weight. And I mean, by this time, I mean, I got so bloated. I was like 220 pounds and just in the worst shape physically,

just mentally. And it probably wasn't. To your point, it probably wasn't. I think there was more of like an ego thing of like, this will be really good for you guys to be able to go do and with the right intentions, honestly. And we should go do it. But internally after looking, it was like,

I had a lot more work I needed to do. And again, thank God the relapse because of the time that I'd had, the support system that I'd had set up, it lasted a day. And I was able to hop right back on. But it was also an opportunity to be able to walk through that and to give people some relatability and some connectivity that like

we are all human and stuff does happen. Again, as I don't think relapse is a part of recovery, I think it's actually a lack thereof. And there's a lot of things that I could have done differently to prevent that. But again, as I was not in a place to talk or open up or share those types of things. And the more I'm doing, like the more I've, you know, after just having celebrated two years of sobriety on December 17th, I can just see that I'm just like, it's cool to hear when I came in, you're just like, hey, you seem like you're just calm, more patient. And it's just like, it just really changed the way I look at life

and the way I communicate. You're in a good place. I will say, since a fan of the show from the beginning, you have a lot of charisma you seem very secure you seem very chill so do you thank you

and I think that you almost had to maybe go through all this to get to the other side I mean this is a as a real compliment because we get a lot of people that come in here

and some of them are great and some of them are a bunch of I'm just kidding we do this a lot and like both of you like you have a you have an immediate charisma and likability.

I mean, that's called that. And you have an interesting story, both of you. And I think it would probably, it's a shame if that light is dimmed with all these other things. Because this is clearly working much better. Yeah, 100%. What is it like being on the hills

with 27 different personalities and demands and all these different things with everything that you guys are already dealing with? How is that? That's a lot of personalities. I was just- Exhausting. Then be pregnant.

Yeah, I don't know. Fuck. I was like, oh my gosh. I mean, literally, they kind of pictured me to be a little bit more of a square than I was though, because I was having a lot of fun. It's just, they kind of made me like- You didn't seem like a square than I was though. Because I was having a lot of fun. It's just they kind of made me like…

You didn't seem like a square. You seemed like you're pregnant. It's a lot. It was a lot. Yeah. What are you supposed to be doing? Like, you know… I don't know.

It's like… It was a lot. This last season was really hard. I mean, when I was pregnant, I went to bed at 7 o'clock. So, I mean… Well, and you're filming till like 11 o'clock. I remember some nights I'm like, I gotta go to bed. I am so tired

well yeah and then you have people screaming in your ear not wearing fucking pants you're like drinking tequila it's like a lot it's a lot

yeah it's a lot and Ashley I mean I will say I think she got kind of a shitty edit on some of the stuff because Ashley's I mean

very outgoing very fun she's like you know they kind of would make her look like this like even in those scenes where they just totally would cut it to make it look like she was like just overly annoyed when it's like, you know, they kind of would make her look like this. Like even in those scenes where they just totally would cut it to make it

look like she was like just overly annoyed when it's like that was like way later down the night. You know what I mean? And how my fucking grandma French twist and Heidi's like screaming in the back

and I'm thinking really like you guys come on. I actually was having fun. I think the audience is savvy enough to know though that that there's edits. Like I've I immediately liked you.

Oh, I mean, I like you. Like I've, I immediately liked you. I mean, I like you too. I mean, I like, I didn't like that edit. I don't know. I know,

but you know, I mean, we understand the business. I mean, we all live here. You think about people that are in Wisconsin and they're sitting there like commenting on your thing

like, you're such a fucking square. Is it weird when the show goes live when people go to your Instagram and start giving their opinions about stuff they don't know about? Yeah.

It's kind of funny. Yeah. I might, yeah, for you. I mean, well, the first season was really hard.

I mean, Jason was like, Ashley, like, you got to stop. It's really ridiculous because I was obsessing over it. I mean,

I tried preparing. I was just like, I was trying to get through the rodeo. Yeah, and she, but I mean, because you have to remember, I started this in 2005. Yeah, so you don't give a fuck what anyone says. I could give two, I was trying to get through the rodeo. Yeah. And she, but I mean, because you have to remember, I started this in 2005.

Yes. You don't give a fuck what anyone says. I could give two shit. No, you just think. And I'm sitting there like, like, because she was getting,

like, it literally got to a point and that's where like, the code and like the, that whole codependent type of thing came in, like untreated codependency, not just for me,

but for herself, right? Because now people are saying stuff. So it's really affecting her. Yeah. And so it, that became a whole nother thing where again, it thing where, again, it's outside my wheelhouse. But I was trying to give as best insight and best direction as I could with this because I'm like, you got to just fucking step back. People have the time to say this shit. You're taking up rent in their head.

You're not thinking about them. I've realized that though, whenever I give advice on that, it's one of those things that you have to just go through to get to the other side. Like now someone could say anything to me. They've said it all. Same. And I'm just like,

eh, like, you know, but when you first happens to, you're like, oh my God. And I can't even imagine being on a television show. I'm not on a television show, but like you almost have to like, she almost had to probably go through

feeling like upset and like jumbled. And then to get to the other side of not on a television show. But like you almost have to like, she almost had to probably go through feeling like upset and like jumbled. And then to get to the other side of not giving a fuck. Yeah. I feel a lot better now. I think the biggest thing too is once, once that first season happened, it was like, okay,

then the second season, I felt a lot more comfortable. But now I'm pregnant. So I'm just like hormonal and irritable. And then people are saying shit about Jason. And that's when I was like, oh, no, no, no, no. Yeah. Like mama bear came out for sure. So where are you guys at with the show not being renewed? I'm so sad. What are you guys doing and working on and putting your energy

towards now? Well, I launched a hair accessory line. I know. I want to hear all about that. Thank you. It's beautiful. Thank you. In September. And so I'm actually working on my second collection. So that I'm hoping will come out this year. And we're maybe going to do a podcast. I'm blogging right now our whole entire journey. I see it for you guys. We are moving cross country. So that's going to be really exciting.

We're just ready to have some land and slow down and just enjoy our kids. You know, I kind of feel like as much as it's sad that we're not going to be able to be on the hills anymore, we're still very good friends

with a lot of cast members. So I know we'll be in touch. But I think the biggest thing is that I feel really happy with the way things ended and like the conclusion of the show because now we're on to, you know,

focusing more on our kids and that's really what we want. No, I think everything happens for a reason. You know. Again, it was a great opportunity to be back. And cool if it happened. If it didn't, it wasn't what dictated us. We didn't go on the shows. This was our career. We already had paths and stuff prior to going back on the show. And for me, obviously, I want to carry out and continue helping build and grow this foundation. I've been on the board for the Los Angeles Mission for many years and always been just very philanthropic and wanted to give back.

And I serve with Nancy Davis on Cure Addiction Now as well. And so really doing a lot more work in the research and working with a lot of doctors in different areas of addiction and actually doing studies and white papers and stuff on that. And like I said, supporting the foundation and then doing a lot of advocacy work. I do a lot of speaking and stuff around addiction and mental health and putting together some panels actually. We just started doing speaking together where we talked to some companies about addiction and codependency,

which has been really, really cool. Work with the APs and talk to companies and stuff. We're actually doing one with Terry Bradshaw's daughter on this Sunday. Cool. It's coming up. Her brother had an overdose. So we're going to go out and do some awareness around that. Brandy Ledford, myself, Hillary, some of our board members and stuff. So do a lot of speaking engagements. But for me too,

is like with this move, it's like being born and raised in California, specifically Orange County and Laguna. It's a challenge. This is all I know down here, but I'm also really excited to Ashley's point to have a change of pace and to really embrace this time with my kids. It's not like I'm going to go retire right now, but why my kids want to be with me and want to hang out with me and I can have the most influence on them in 10 years, 12 years, and then they don't want to. I can pick back, work back up and stuff like that. So I'm also doing the real estate investment stuff. And we have some fun projects that we're working on that are, again, in the real estate side of things. So I think it's really right now we're excited about kind of having a little bit less on our plate and kind of really just seeing how this goes, but really embracing the time with the kids and with one another.

It's an opportunity for us to grow even further. You know, we moved from LA to Austin and I will say we came here this week, obviously, to do a bunch of podcasts and stuff. And I looked at Michael last night and I just said, I can't wait to get home. And it's nothing against LA. It's that Austin for us is so grounding. And that's the word I've realized. Like, it's just, it's not even that it's like slower. It's just more nature and like just more focused on things

I actually want to put my energy towards. I think at some point, if you're curious about a big city and you haven't been in one, like it is a, it is an interesting and maybe positive experience to come and, you know, live in a big city. It doesn't have to be LA, it could be New York, any big city, Chicago, whatever. But I just don't feel it's a natural way to live. Right. And, and my entire life, I felt like I've been called to a place outside of a place like this. And I just like, you know,

it was kind of like in a weird way. Like every, like when we came here, it was like, yeah, we're here. Like it's briefcase mentality.

Like we're working. We're not really going out, but it was when we're always finding stuff wanting to leave. Right. I'm like, that's weird that we want to leave

the place we live so often. And I just think like, it's a lot of it's because it's so artificial, right? This is not how humans evolved to be in these like massive structures

with all this shit everywhere. Our point is, is you guys, I think are going to love it. I'm so excited to watch your next journey. I wouldn't be mad if you did

a Tennessee reality show with Justin and Kristen. Who knows? Yeah, who knows? I would love to see that. I also wouldn't be mad at a podcast. You guys both

are very good on the mic. Where can everyone find your hair collab, your Instagram, Jason's Instagram? You shared your foundation's Instagram, but maybe one more time just for the audience. So my hair collection is Ashley Waller Gold Collection. It's at basicextra.com slash Ashley Waller. You can also see it on my Instagram at Ashley Waller. And then you can click my link there and you can see our whole journey about our lives and everything we've been going through moving across the country. Gone.

That's it. Now you're good. Keep going. Thank you. Yeah. If you want to find out more about myself, just go to Jason Waller on Instagram or go to jasonwaller.com. The foundation is Red Songbird Foundation.

So if you or a loved one is struggling, please don't hesitate to reach out and we're happy to provide some insight and direction. And honestly, if you guys have any more questions, seriously, DM us. We go through them all the time. We have so many people that reach out to us that talk to us about their struggles, their family struggles, and we try to reach out to them as much as possible.

So Jason, Ashley, come back anytime. I could have gone even longer. There was so many questions we had. We normally don't even go that long. You guys were so good on the mic. We normally go like 45 minutes to an hour. Normally we get to say, get the fuck out of here. Thank you guys both for coming on. Thank you. Congratulations on two years. This story is like 45 minutes to an hour. Get the fuck out of here. Thank you guys both

for coming on. Congratulations on two years. I think this story is going to help a lot of people, honestly. Thank you. Appreciate it, man. Thank you, guys.

Thank you. Do you want to win some Ashley Waller beauty clips? They have the prettiest limited edition hair accessories. They are so cute. They're pieces that you can wear in your hair for everyday wear

or you can wear them to weddings. Very pretty pieces. She is offered to do a little giveaway with you guys. It's called the gold collection. All you have to do is tell us your favorite part of this episode on my latest post at Lauren Bostic, and make sure you're following Ashley on Instagram. With that, we'll see you next time.