The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Whitney Cummings - How To Build Self Esteem, Heal Trauma, Self Reflect, & Manage Challenging Enviroments

Episode Date: September 2, 2024

#747: On today’s episode we’re sitting down with Whitney Cummings, a comedian, actor, writer, producer, director, entrepreneur, and host of the hit podcast “Good for You”. From adrenaline addiction, to carving her path to become one of today’s most notable female comedians, Whitney tells us how she used her challenging environment to positively empower the successful woman she is today. In this episode, we will discuss growing up in a dysfunctional household, healing trauma, building self-esteem, and how to achieve your dreams.  To connect with Whitney Cummings click HERE  To connect with Lauryn Bosstick click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE To Watch the Show click HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential Head to the HIM & HER Show ShopMy page HERE to find all of Michael and Lauryn’s favorite products mentioned on their latest episodes. This episode is sponsored by Pique Head over to Piquelife.com/skinny to get up to 15% off and a free cup and frother + free shipping FOR LIFE when you start on any of my Pique favorites.  This episode is sponsored by Hiya Health Receive 50% off your first order. To claim this deal you must go to Hiyahealth.com/SKINNY. This episode is sponsored by Squarespace Go to Squarespace.com/SKINNYto save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code SKINNY. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp Visit BetterHelp.com/SKINNY today to get 10% off your first month. This episode is sponsored by First Aid Beauty Don’t wait, get 20% off with promo code SKINNY at FirstAidBeauty.com/SKINNY. This episode is sponsored by Farmers Dog  Get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food at TheFarmersDog.com/SKINNY. Plus, you get FREE shipping! Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Mouth tape. It's so fucking cute. You've never seen cuter. I definitely would say if you are not using mouth tape, you are missing out on so many benefits. It's absolutely changed my life. I cannot say enough good things about it. So what I've noticed is that it's made my jawline stronger because it supports your tongue posture all night. It's encouraged nasal breathing, which gives you a better sleep and more energy in the morning. And most importantly, it's trained me sort of where to put my tongue. I would never dare sleep without mouth tape. So subscription, I would recommend because we sell out all the time. We literally cannot

keep this mouth tape in stock. If you want to chisel your jawline while you sleep and get a better sleep, go to ShopSkinnyConfidential.com. ShopSkin entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the Skinny Confidential, him and her. Jealousy, you know, I like to think of this healthy competition. You know, I come from playing sports. For me, jealousy or whatever that means always makes you better, you know? And if it doesn't make you better, what are you doing? You know, so to me, like things that are a waste of time, I just have a really hard time processing why other people would waste time being jealous of someone when they could just use that energy

and that time spent. Because I think that when you look at someone that has something you want, you go like, wait, hold on. This person got it. Like that means it's possible. All right. So we record a lot. We have all different kinds of guests. This podcast is like a buffet. You never know what you're going to get. But this episode surprised me. Her intensity, Whitney Cummings, matched mine. It was a match made in heaven. This episode had me on the edge of my seat the entire episode. I was laughing. I was tearing up.

I was just excited about the frequency and vibration in the room. I would send this to all your friends. This is one of those episodes that you just can't stop listening to. Whitney Cummings is a fucking pro on the mic. She knows what she's doing. On today's show, we sit down with Whitney Cummings, a comedian pro on the mic. She knows what she's doing. On today's show, we sit down with Whitney Cummings, a comedian, actor, writer, producer, director, entrepreneur, mom, and the host of the hit podcast, Good For You. She really does it all. And there's an

Easter egg in here where you get to meet her new man, like on the mic. She brings him on. On that note, Whitney Cummings, welcome to the show this is the skinny confidential him and her out of every single one of his books which which is the one that you read artist seduction yeah that's that's the only one i haven't read really oh we can tell it's kind of awkward if i was like really studying that one high and then you got that prenup you know i feel like you could you could brush up on that what if you came if I was like really studying that one. Why didn't you have that prenup? No, I feel like you could brush up on that one. What if you came in and I was like highlighting the hell out of it? I'm like, oh, this one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, dark. Oh, no, mine, if anyone were to find my copy of Art of Seduction with the number of like marks and many different color pen, like put me in jail. Take my child from, call Child Services. Honestly, I gotta say Mastery's pretty good too. I like 33 Strategies of War, I think is the best one. Yeah, that's great. Michael tries to do like the one that's like no one does. I love the history. all child services honestly i gotta say mastery is pretty good too yeah 33 strategies of war i think is the best yeah that's great michael tries to do like the one that's like no one does i love

the history shit but like also it may or may not be true but fine okay let's do what i'm saying we need to get a little background on you i need i need to know more about like your childhood where you grew up set the foundation foundation. I know this is annoying, but we just want to know like what Whitney was before she was Whitney Cummings. Oh, wow. Yeah. Thank you. I'm going to try to just answer this in a way that isn't boring and that I think because I'm a fan and knowing sort of how your fans are, I'm going to try to answer this in a way that they would get something out of given where I think that we might be going with this conversation, is I grew up in an alcoholic home with a tremendous amount of stress. I think I was born addicted to adrenaline. I've thought a lot about epigenetic imprinting and

looked a lot into that. And the chemicals that are emitted to the fetus in utero, they're born addicted to. So if you do crack when you're pregnant, your baby's going to be addicted to crack, right? But if you're doing the internal drug cabinet, you know, of adrenaline and cortisol, my mom was, you know, pregnant with me and going through a bad divorce and in a super acrimonious situation with my dad. And I think, you know, she was producing a lot of adrenaline and cortisol. And I think I was just born addicted to it. And I was just always on super high alert. Alcoholic homes, you're super hypervigilant. You become a people pleaser. You become a, you know, chameleon obsessed with shape-shifting in order to try to diffuse chaos. You try to figure out how to

break up fights. You become like a parentified child type thing. So I think I just had a lot of stress and chaos in my childhood, not trying to get pity, any of that. It's just helpful for me to know neurologically what I came from because a lot of my health stuff now has to do with trying to course correct or get the pendulum to swing back the other way, knowing that I have an addiction to adrenaline. So do you feel uncomfortable if things are calm in your life? Not anymore. I used to. I used to definitely feel alive in a time of crisis. And when things were smooth, it was like the Damocles sword was hanging and it was always like, when is the shoe going to drop? So when things were calm, that's when you get anxious. Absolutely. But now I'm at a point where, you know, I can actually relate to that a lot because she's what do you call it looking for the saber tooth

it's called saber tooth love it where's the saber tooth it's like nothing's wrong and i'm just like look at like what's gonna like a cat on a tin roof sure sure yeah and then but also do you think that that mentality ends up manifesting that or you know it's it's weird how i you think you get what you expect well i think you have a couple choices if you're wired certain ways like i try to look at the things that it's brought me in my life like i think like being hypervigilant in some situations is good but i as i get older and well men have to be you have to be yeah but we're going to war soon but also not me i'm too old don't you think that how your how your childhood has helped. I mean, obviously, you think this. It's helped shaped you to become so successful. There's got to be so many positives out of it, you know, I think it's the only way to move through life. You know, we forgive others not because they deserve forgiveness, but because we deserve peace. So once I started going like, everyone thinks that I work really hard and I feel

like I had a lazy day. What's up with that? You know, I just had this psycho work ethic, you know, because I had to be perfect in order to get attention and to get love. I had to earn love. I had to work really hard to get attention. Achievements were really big. I defined myself through my achievements. I got my self-esteem from my achievements and productivity and usefulness to others, you know. And so to me, like my sort of tolerance for, you know, hard work is so much higher than other people's, you know, because I had to work so hard for approval. You know, I was a parentified child, so I was sort of like managing my own life and organizing myself. I had to get myself to school.

I had to pack my own lunch. I had to get my permission slip. From what age? Oh, seven, six, seven. Yeah, it was like parents hung over, couldn't get me to school. I had to like go to the neighbor's house and like con them and charm them and guile them into taking me to school and getting me, you know, food. So it's like I had this ability to just kind of charm people. You know, look, charisma is a red flag. Let's be honest. I definitely used it. You know, here's the trick.

And I'm in a program called Al-Anon ACA, which is like the sort of sister program to AA. So in AA, you're addicted to alcohol and in AA, you're addicted to narcotics and sex addiction, you're addicted to sex, whatever. Al-Anon, when you come from an alcoholic home, the sort of character defects slash superpowers that you develop to survive it, you know, really helping you when you're young. But then when you move into the world and you have employees and stuff, it starts backfiring. You know, they become liabilities. You're carrying around a bunch of weapons, even though the war has been over for 30 years, you know. So I had to really figure out which ones were serving me and which ones were obstacles and limiting me. So is that helpful? No, it's I mean, it's it's crazy how self-aware you are. And I

remember reading one of your books, like I want to say like 10 years ago, San Diego. And I remember reading this and being like, there's a self-awareness that a lot of people don't have. How do you think that you develop that? That's a really good question. And I actually have an answer. I think that being a comedian really helps with that because the audience doesn't let you be delusional. Yeah.

And hold on. Are you getting a picture? Is this a video? I will pause the podcast if you're taking a photo. We'll throw a little Paris on it. Yeah, let's get the Nashville filter. Hefe, please.

Okay. Yes, thank you so much. I don't give a shit. I do get distracted easily, so I just had to acknowledge it, and now I can move on. But being a stand-up, the way that I came up, especially with the Comedy Store, beginning with doing three-minute open mics at 1 a.m. for five German tourists in the audience and just bombing my ass off. You really figure out who you are German tourists in the audience and just bombing my ass off. And, you

know, you really figure out who you are really fast because the audience is, you know, you're looking for a reflexive reaction, involuntary reaction. And if you're full of shit, it makes people uncomfortable. If you're not self-aware, if you're delusional, unless you're like super delusionally confident and that's its own art form, you know, like the Robin Williams is of the world or whatever. But, you know, for the way that I do it, if you're not telling the truth or if you're saying something that you don't really believe or saying something that's contrary to your essence and they don't buy it, you know, if you're what you're saying is incongruous with the ethos you're giving off, you know, they just call bullshit on you. So you have to kind of figure out who you are really fast

and what you can pull off, what you can get away with. And you have to learn how to not lie. You know, one thing that I think, you know, was a character defect that I did get as a child that doesn't serve me today, that isn't a trauma privilege, is the ability to manipulate and lie. You know, it's something I had to do a lot in order to, you know, get my neighbors to give me food. And, you know, when you have alcoholics and addicts and chaotic people raising you, you end up having to cover up their lies a lot. So it was a lot of like, no, my mom has a black eye because of this, or I wasn't able to make it to school because of this. Like I had to lie a lot as a kid because I was just always so embarrassed, you know? And it's something I think people don't talk about a lot from chaotic homes or, you know, growing up without money or growing up around alcoholism

is that you are embarrassed and you're trying to lie to people to hide what's going on. You just want your friends to come over and think that your house is cool. You know, like they come over, there's like no food in the fridge. There's like no hot water. Like it's just like a chaotic mess. You know, I never had the permission slip sign. I never had the check. I never had the whatever I, the uniform.

I never had the right uniform. I'm the kid that showed up in the wrong uniform. So I really had to like get a hold on that. And then so when I first started doing standup, I was like, oh, I'm just going to be this person that, you know, everyone's going to want me to be. And, you know, this worked as a child. I was able to be like perfect and funny and say what my mom wanted me to say

so that she didn't get offended or histrionic or say what I needed to say to my dad for him to like give me attention and love me. And then you get on stage as a comic and everyone's like, what are you doing? Like, I don't buy it. Those alcoholics that raised you, drunk people bought it, but like, we don't get this. You know, so I really had to figure out who I was like, what are you doing? Like, I don't buy it. Those alcoholics that raised you, drunk people bought it,

but like, we don't get this, you know? So I really had to figure out who I was. And then also, I'm just gonna sound boring and dorky, but therapists didn't work for me. 12-step programs have, but you know, as Phil Stutz says, like when you go into a room with a bunch of people

and admit all your secrets, like you're able to have grace, you know, to like release that shame. That really helped me because shame is what was driving my inauthenticity so much and my lack of self-awareness. You know, they say that when you're in active addiction, you know, even if it's the internal medicine cabinet of adrenaline, because adrenaline turns into dopamine, so it's a drug. You know, when you see, you know, people that are always just in a dramatic relationship, they're always rescuing

people. They're always like, you know, if they need to be somewhere at four o'clock and it takes half an hour, they leave at 430. I'm sorry, at 330, you know, just to like get that almost like subconscious self-sabotage. Oh, well, it's not affecting you at all. I mean, you know, it's affecting me. So, you know, for me, like therapists, like I would even try to charm therapists. You know, my mom took my behavior very personally and my uh you know she was you know it's tricky like and i you know again like i have no anger towards her but if i like wasn't doing well in school or was like hey can we get some food she would get very defensive like she was very insecure she had eating disorder she was an alcoholic like she

was you know so i never wanted to like hurt her upset her so when i started how it reflected on her exactly exactly yeah and i don't want to be the person that throws around words and i'm not You know, so I never wanted to like hurt her, upset her. So when I started- Because of how it reflected on her? Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And I don't want to be the person that throws around words and I'm not a doctor like narcissism and gaslighting and borderline and all that. Although I was told she was borderline by police officers, but they're not psychiatrists either, you know, and those definitions change a lot. So I try to just really not bring that stuff up, but would go to therapists and I would lie to them because I didn't want them to tell my mom that I wasn't OK. You know, like so I was so so I would like, you know, protecting like sort of the abuser.

Yeah. Yeah. But I would just I was a I was a kid. I also didn't want someone to tell, you know, it was like I didn't want to have to keep coming. What is your mom thought of you being so honest? I mean, I think it's amazing and it's it's it is what it is. What does she feel when she hears all this stuff she's dead okay um she died like a year and a half ago i don't know she had a stroke like 10 years ago from drinking and you know she was in facilities and you know icus and stuff on all kinds of drugs and i think she could see the success you've had she got to see it yeah and

it was confounding to her you know it's so funny like the way that mom's like i'm sure you guys have like a version of this like where your parents they're they either don't understand that you're successful and or they over compliment you to the point to where you have to feel bad like by the time she figured out i had like two or three specials and I'm on HBO she called me and she'd be like how come you're not on Grey's Anatomy she'd be like did you see this Wonder Woman movie how come you're not Wonder Woman and I'd be like I just I you know what I forgot to call them back I you know what like you know so it's almost this like she'd be like like outraged by the injustice that I she's like the Golden the golden globe nominees just came out. How come you're not? It's okay.

They overlooked you. Wow. Wow. This is corrupt. And you're like, mom, thank you for that. I mean like this middle ground that you just refuse to acknowledge.

Did you have a relationship where she like was, was maybe jealous in a way or no, or was it like she was supportive? You know, that's a really interesting question. I have a hard time understanding that anyone would be jealous of me and people say that a lot. Especially your parent, right? Yeah, it's kind of, my mom is very beautiful.

You know, she worked in fashion. She actually, I found out when she passed that she had, you know, Jewish ancestry, but she was also like pretty anti-Semitic, which is a very good tell. If you're trying to figure out if you have any ancestry for anything. If your family, like, hates Armenians, you might be Armenian secretly. You know, it's

like, it was this, like, internalized anti-Semitism or something. So she had a lot of anger, you know. She was in a really bad marriage. Like, we're, you guys are, this is, like, the first generation where marriages are good. Like, this is, like, do you know what I mean? I'm sure a lot of people listening are like, no, my grandparents were, my grandparents were you know really happy yeah that was before facebook and social media like they met three people of the opposite gender like a year and they let live like 17 miles away like there was no concept of what you were missing there was no concept of like i could do better you know so i feel like you know the generation before you know it was like there was a lot of infidelity there was a lot of just like you know chaos there was you know they just weren't meant for each other and i think that ultimately my parents were love addicts which i there was a lot of infidelity. There was a lot of just like, you know, chaos. There was, you know, they just weren't meant for each other.

And I think that ultimately my parents were love addicts, which I've studied a lot of. And I've gone to those meetings and stuff. It's sort of when you're in a toxic relationship and you cannot extricate yourself because it's such an addictive chemical, adrenaline and drama. And you just can't get out. I don't think that's talked enough about about how addicting adrenaline and chaos is. It's like that that almost needs to be up there with alcohol and drugs. I love that you're saying this. I'm sorry to cut you off. I'm just I think that what we're seeing on social media as well, all this like like negative

comments, what's going on with politics. I think it's all an adrenaline addiction. And I think it's like the number one addiction because, you know, you can get it without... It's why the food addiction and the OA thing is so hard because drugs and alcohol, you're completely abstemious, but adrenaline and food, you're going to get it sometimes if someone cuts you off in traffic. You don't always control when you're going to get it. You can't see it. It's not tangible. Your next special should be called Adrenaline Addiction. You know, I was talking to an Uber driver the other day and he was an older gentleman, super nice guy. And he was talking about his kids are getting on social

media and he was trying to like, you know, he doesn't use, he was like, why is everything so crazy? And I was like, I think it's what you're talking about. People are so, they're so much more interested in the chaos and the drama and the anger. Addicted to, I think. You just have a normal, calm conversation. It's not enough for them to get riled up. And all the clips you see. It's also something that helps me is the addiction to self-righteous indignation. Self-righteous indignation addiction is super real. And I think that that's what we're seeing on social media. I think we're going to look back in 50 years the same way we look back at how people used

to smoke inside and kids used to work in factories. We're going to be like, remember when you can just go on social media and just fight with anyone whenever you wanted and get that hit of adrenaline? You know, we're all in total fight or flight mode, not only because we're, you know, in a constant state of adrenaline and, you know, making enemies constantly, being at war emotionally, but it's also we're hunched over the screen, which is like, you know, your vagus nerve is like completely cut off. And this is a defensive stance that makes adrenaline and cortisol because, you know, thousands of years ago, if if you were in this stance you were either getting attacked or you were hiding and you needed to protect yourself you know i'm advocating for people to just go back to straight

up street fist fights i talk about this all the time chris is chris is in well i i yeah i mean when i was a kid and you would have to get a little anger out you just go fight some stranger there was a consequence to your behavior in some way. I mean, Mike Tyson always talks about it as the problem with society today is people, you know, talk shit without getting punched in the face, you know? Yeah. I think it's the quickest way to learn not to talk shit. It's interesting that you just said that you don't think that people are jealous of you. That's wild to me.

With what you do, you're one of like the top female comedians. And it seems like it's not a huge pool. I can't imagine that that's not, that there's not jealousy involved. But like the way you have to get there

is so brutal that people are like, you could have it. You know, I think in my brain, I just, that's something that I guess I just...

I think you understand the way to get, but a lot of people that don't understand how hard it is to get there, they think, oh, that's it's like anything. Totally. And I think for me, jealousy is I think ultimately because workaholism is my primary addiction and jealousy is such a waste of time. It's not particularly effective. Sometimes you can, you know, sublimate it into fuel to work harder.

You know, jealousy. You know, I like to think of this healthy competition. You know, I come from playing sports and I think for me, jealousy or whatever that means always makes you better. Yeah. You know, and if it doesn't make you better, what are you doing? You know, so to me, like things that are a waste of time, I just have a really hard time processing why other people would waste time being jealous of someone when they could just use that energy and that time spent. So because I think that when you look at someone that has something you want, you go like, wait, hold on.

This person got it. Like, that means it's possible. I feel like this is exactly how I feel. It's like a waste of my capacity to focus on the jealousy. But like, I get what you're saying. You use it as maybe a little driver, but it's a waste.

It's that you're using so much bandwidth to be jealous. I'm like, I could be using this energy to be creating the life that I want that would make me not be jealous anymore I'm like, I could be using this energy to be creating the life that I want that would make me not be jealous anymore. You know, you're both wired. Not a lot of people believe when they see somebody else that has something that they have the capacity to go get it themselves. I think that's like the fundamental thing is people will see the success you've had or you've had and they like they don't believe it's possible for them where you will look

at someone else like I can go do if they can do it, I can go do it. I mean it's interesting like I think for me I used to be so jealous of people that had really quote-unquote easy childhoods or had money or had loving parents that like read to them and now I'm kind of not you know what I mean because I'm like you have no life skills you have no grit like you know they're so sensitive and they're you know they like can't handle negative Instagram comment you know and so I'm just like oh like my like YouTube comments are like compared to what I grew. I'm like, stop flirting. Like what? Like I'm a cunt.

Oh my God, thank you. You know, and so it's like all the negative shit you're saying, like I agree with you, like we're soulmates. You know, so it's like to me, the more you go through life and the harder shit gets, I think the more grateful you are for a rough childhood. But it took a lot of acceptance, a lot of forgiveness, a lot of dissolving, crystallized resentments and bad habits and stuff. But the adrenaline thing is super real.

I agree. Not enough people talk about it. I think adrenaline makes dopamine. That's kind of all you need to know. So do I take from that that you, for our children, Lauren and I should just start drinking a lot more? Look, if it... You know what my friend calls it measured adversity this is she goes lauren you know your kids need a little measured adversity okay and she's gives her kids measured

adversity all the time it's fine i mean i've yeah not with yours i'm not talking about with what you went through i'm talking about like giving my kids little things to brush up on their resilience. These days, I got to say I'm joking because the soft people that just got triggered by that comment. I just learned about mom social media because I just had a baby. I have an infant old. Congratulations, by the way. I thought the incel community was rough. That mom community, I really wanted to have my baby not naturally I'm

not an animal in the woods I'm not a barbarian I just wanted to have it vaginally and I induced at 39 weeks because I didn't want to do cesarean I just it's personal preference because I wanted to have the option to have another one more quickly and you have it takes longer to heal with a cesarean whatever i'm allowed to not want that you know i mean i'm unless it's necessary and i almost had to have one but i posted on social media something i was like ideas for like playlist songs for my labor playlist or something and it was like just like i said like torn by natalie imbruglia like live the song you know what i mean like what's the one what's the live one lightning crashes but you know it's like kind of that and to push it salt and pepper what are just like kind of and then the c-section moms came in and they were like you know not everyone

could have it vaginally and you talking about labor is shaming the women that had cesareans. And I was like, how did you get there? Like, how did you even get there? Like you are going out of your way to get a hit of a drug. Like you're going out of your way to intentionally misunderstand something in order to justify being offended. Like if that's not addiction, they just want acknowledgement. Sure. That's what they're looking for you to acknowledge that. Yeah, I think which is you're right. A hit of adrenaline. Totally. I want to go back a little bit more.

And I want to ask you when your first, like... We went to utero. How much further back can we go? No, not further back than that. But I just want to know when your first, like, hit of success was. And I'm not talking about, like, your first, like, hit special. I'm talking about, like, when you first started to see that you could become successful like your first taste of it I have been doing this for so long and I still don't have a good answer to that question I will I'll try I think for me my goals were so impossibly

high that because I I just figured that there's the higher your goals, the less competition there will be up there. And when did you set these goals? Like before you had a career or. Oh, I was making vision boards when I was 17, cutting things out of magazines. I was having fake conversations with Oprah. Like I was fully,

I mean, I was a mental patient, you know, cause look, my first drug was fantasy, I mean, I was a mental patient, you know, because look, my first drug was fantasy, you know, to check out of my situation as a child. You know, I would pretend I was living with other families. I would pretend I was a celebrity. I would pretend I was in commercials. That was a big disassociative thing I did. I would like, it's so weird that I had such high

goals later because in the beginning, my dream was just to be in commercials. Like I'd watch commercials of kids like eating like cold cuts. And I'd be like, how did that kid? And I would practice like in the mirror. Like I was like, I want to be in commercials. Like I would drive by a billboard, but like a McDonald's commercial, the kid. And I'd be like, how did they find him? Why him? You know, and I always wanted to like, you know, I guess I just want to be seen or I wanted attention or something. And then my dad would watch Rodney Dangerfield in SNL and I would watch him laugh. And I was like, OK, that's I got to do that. So, yeah, my my goals were so delusionally high that I think that by the time I was getting

little tastes of success, I was I was just like, that's not got to keep going like that's not even enough. I think when I first did the roasts, I did the Comedy Central roasts like I don't know, that was like 13 years ago or something. That was probably the first time I was like whoa like people coming up to me and recognizing me you know because I did punked on MTV which was like mattered on some level you know and people would kind of recognize me um also like the first time I could pay my bills like I was able to pay off my debt stuff like that I think for me what makes me feel successful is stuff like

that I remember when you did those roasts right yeah do you think that and we have this conversation no that's great answer do we have when my family members started suing me is that could that be when i knew i was successful shit maybe we're not successful yeah oh yeah no no you haven't made it until one of your family members tries to sue you and say you stole the idea when you get a piece of paper that says one of your family members is trying to sue you what's's your reaction? I'm shocked that that didn't happen sooner. You know, like my... Do you call them up or text them or are you just like... Well, I pay their phone bill, so I just cut the phone bill. I mean, yeah. It's like, you just texted me on the phone I paid for to sue me. Okay, so now do you need to borrow money from me to sue me? How does

this even work? Yeah, there's a lot. I have a lot of mental illness in my family. I mean, that is that's gnarly. Yeah, I just shut down. You know, this is one of the sort of gifts of having trauma. I do have the ability to completely shut down and disassociate when, you know, whether it's Stockholm syndrome or PTSD, whatever it is, it kind of serves me well when it comes to that kind of stuff. I can kind of just like shut down. Do you think whenever we interview a woman who's really successful and driven like you,

I ask this question. I think sometimes, and you could speak more eloquently on this, that it's very hard to attract a man because they're intimidated. And you're a perfect mix to me. You have a lot of masculine energy, but I can tell you also have feminine energy too.

But it's heavy on the masculine with your career. Is that been like? And can I just, I'm not trying to nitpick. Can I, can you just say that again in a different way? Sure. Like, cause is what's masculine about it? The fact that I do stand up and I'm like commander, it's a male dominated field. That's actually not how I perceive it as masculine energy. Because you know what it is? It's interesting to me because yes, stand-up comedy is a male

dominated field, but to me it's a very feminine art, sport, whatever it is. It's like people getting... It's not that. It's this energy. But like isn't it interesting though? Because it's like you know, stand-up is like going on stage complaining, talking about your feelings. I'll give you an example. And so when the men do it I'm like, you know this is our thing. It's a little

kind of like a little bitch maybe. Kind of. Let me give you a example and so when the men do it I'm like you know this is our thing it's a little kind of like a little bitch maybe kind of let me give you a different take on this a lot of my like Lauren and I have known each other for a long time

I've dated other women if she what ew you said fuck I can leave her with all my guy friends and be like oh she's like

one of the guys and they're all just going to hang out like that's you have the same energy yeah that's what I'm thinking about it's actually not

the comedian thing you know what's interesting about this and sorry that this is going to go where. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking about. It's actually not the comedian thing. You know what's interesting about this? And sorry that this is going to go where it's going to go. But I do, I come from sports and I do have sexual abuse in my history. And a lot of times, from what I understand, when you have that, you do neuter yourself a little bit.

And I was able to kind of, I really tried to make myself like not sexual at all when I went into doing stand-up. I like wore a hoodie. I was trans before any of you. I had a hoodie. I was wearing sneakers. Like I had my hair back.

Like I just really didn't want to come off like a girl at all or have any sexual energy, if that makes any sense. And then I also wanted to, you know, my dad always told me it's toxic. He was always like, you're going to have to work twice as hard to get half as far. Life is not fair and people are not going to respect you. He really wanted a son and I think he was really freaked out that he had daughters. And he was just like, you know, I think he had trouble with women and, you know, projected that everybody did. And he made it very clear to me early on, like, you cannot leave with this.

I know I'm not answering your question, but in terms of, yeah, I always felt it's almost like me working really hard, even though it seems masculine, is almost a feminine byproduct because because I'm a woman, I had to work twice as hard to get half as far, you know, and I don't want anything I don't deserve. And I and I, you know, you know, I'm my perfectionism, which is, you know, I've worked on a lot in ACA Al-Anon, but I had a lot of like really debilitating perfectionism for a long time. And my self-esteem was derived from my, you know, success, my productivity. So I think that's also part of when people like your work so hard and I'm like, because I hate myself, you know, and then I had to figure out an engine that was actually healthy later. How have you gotten out of hating yourself? Because I don't feel like when I'm sitting with you that you hate yourself at all.

Oh, yeah. No, I don't now. I mean, look, here's what I don't have to tell you about this. Having a child has been so healing for me in this area because I realized, you know, the narcissism of what we do is just so suffocating. And I realized that when I'm thinking about myself 24 hours a day, I hate myself. When I'm thinking about myself like two hours a day, I'm like, you're kind of sick. You know, it's just the all day self-obsession of the like, hey, guys, I'm touring. And hey, guys, I'm on my podcast. And hey, guys, ask me anything. I'm traveling.

And me, me, me, me, me, me, me. You know, it's just I think that it was just, you know, you have to kind of be like that. I know in order to be successful in what we do and kind of shameless like that. But I started just getting kind of sick of myself. And then the not then the hating myself earlier, I'll just say low self-esteem, you know, I think had more to do with that just primary wound of when you're like, my own parents don't love me. Like I was sent away as a kid to live with my aunts.

Like you're kind of like, I must be wrong. And it's too psychologically annihilating to think my parents are crazy. You know, you can't handle it. So it must be me. And I have to work so hard to get attention. I have to work so hard to get love. I must just be useless. And my accomplishments are what is, you know, valuable about me, you know. And then later, after getting into program, I learned that like in order to build self-esteem, you have to engage in esteemable actions, you know, which is like service to people without keeping score, without manipulating, without trying to make them like you with clean motives.

And that's when I think I started building like actual self-esteem. Al-Anon seems very, very, very interesting. It's brain school. It's just like it's therapy I've never connected to. But Al-Anon seems interesting. It's OK. So Al-Anon, first of all, it's free medicine. It's free.

Number one. Number two, you know, it is basically the ability to tolerate the discomfort of all, it's free medicine. It's free, number one. Number two, it is basically the ability to tolerate the discomfort of others. It's one of the things that we learn instead of being addicted to alcohol, drugs, whatever. It's people pleasing, the three Ms, mothering, micromanaging, and martyring. Before you solve a problem, first make sure it's your problem. I do really well with these aphorisms and stuff. When you ended up being a parentified child and having to caretake your parents, either emotionally, literally, you end up thinking you have to caretake people and you waste a lot of time and energy caretaking adults,

rescuing people, dating people. You have to rescue being, you know, attracted to someone who's a victim, confusing love and pity, just all this like nonsense. So, you know, once I realized like, oh, this is I didn't do anything wrong like we're all doing what we were programmed to do unless we actively deprogram ourselves so it's kind of just like you know it's a program but I call it like a deprogram because you're just deprogramming the things that you learned in order to deal with you know your family of origin like you know Harville Hendricks I don't know if you've ever read Getting the Love You Want stupid name for an amazing book you know he talks about how we're attracted to people with the negative qualities of our primary

caretaker until we heal that shit. You know, so I found myself just dating people that were my mom and dad remixed, you know. And did you stay attracted to the person? Because it was familiar. No, you have to like deal with it. You know, you have to change your adrenaline addiction. You have to, you know, I did something called I'm metapractice with this guy, George Haas. He's amazing.

And you sort of like go through just sort of rewiring your brain to, you know. It's also I love that you said that you know love addiction is way more common than you know we talk about and like also just in our society like the way that we have managed to have these like toxic synonyms for like butterflies like a pit in your stomach is butterflies it's passion it's like no it's your body saying get away from this person like there's this is scary there's something off about this you know and we now take a pit in your stomach that's how disconnected we are from our intuition as like love like soulmate like you shouldn't be nervous meeting someone but usually

when you walk into a room and you just vibrated a different frequency of someone you know they're called we call them christmas trees when you're just like you like i used to be able to walk in a room that was broken you know recently separated you know breathe tattoo v-neck you know eagles jersey penis down the leg penis down the leg i hate you person and you're just like boom and then we have good chem we call it chemistry but actually it's just familiarity, toxic familiarity, you know? So it took me a long time. Like part of what I go to and program for is like to be okay with being a little bored in a relationship, you know?

It shouldn't be this like high octane, cause that's just addiction, you know? So. The word bored scares a lot of people who love chaos. It's a scary word and I was sort of told by you know my sponsor once like it's like she was like oh you what you think is boredom is actually just serenity my tolerance for chaos was so high that if there wasn't like an active fight or there was you know what I mean I was like I'm bored you know she rebranded it for you yes I was like, I'm bored, you know? She rebranded it for you. Yes. I was like, oh, yeah. Words are a big deal to me. Like, I don't say that's not healthy. I say like, that's not helpful, you know, because that's like pathologizing and judgmental. There's a lot of things that you sort of learn and program of like the way that you talk about yourself,

you know, did not cast a negative spell by saying like, well, because I'm crazy and I'm such an idiot. Every night, like clockwork, I do the same two drinks. I have my magnesium water and my tea. I drink my tea out of this huge cup from the Ivy. It's such a good cup. It's like a huge mug. And in that cup is my peak ginger tea. This is the best to wind down with. It's the most amazing nightcap on the planet,

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and it's quadruple toxin screened. So they're very serious about their tea. But you got to get the ginger digestion elixir. It's the best tea on the planet. I crave it all the time. I bring it when I'm traveling. Head over to peaklife.com slash skinny p i q u e l i f e.com slash s k i n n y. You get up to 15% off and a free cup and frother. Plus you get free shipping for life when you start on any of my peak tea favorites. Let's talk about Haya, the vitamin that Lauren and I give to our children every single day. We love it so much. We spend so much time thinking about what we're taking as adults,

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then supercharged with 15 essential vitamins and minerals, including vitamin D, B12, C, zinc, folate, and many others to help support immunity, energy, brain function, mood, concentration, teeth, bones, and more. And of course, we've worked out a special deal with Haya for their best-selling children's vitamin. Receive 50% off your first order. To claim this deal, you must go to hayahealth.com slash skinny. This deal is not available on their regular website. Go to H-I-Y-A-H-E-A-L-T-H.com slash skinny and get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults. Hayahealth.com slash skinny. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all-in-one website platform for entrepreneurs to stand out and succeed online, whether you're just starting

out or managing a growing brand. Squarespace makes it easy to create beautiful websites, engage with your audience, and sell anything from products to content to time, all in one place, all on your own time. It is 2024. You should own your own online brand, your own online presence. This is why Lauren and I love Squarespace so much. Lauren and I have largely built most of the success in our career because we focus so much on owning our platforms, whether it's our podcast, our newsletter, our e-com site, anything that we can own online and not be at the mercy of third parties we are interested in. Squarespace helps you do all of that. Like I said, you're not at the mercy of third party social platforms where you actually don't control your

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presence or business, now's the time and Squarespace can help you do it. So check it out. Head over to squarespace.com for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, go to squarespace.com slash skinny to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Again, that is squarespace.com slash skinny to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code skinny. I don't want to sound sexist saying this, but I have two sisters have been married a long time. And I've heard... Well, you have two sisters. You've been married a long time. I have two sisters. Sister wives?

No, no, no, no. But I've heard some women say like, men like the drama or they like the crazy. And I'm like, I don't, I think maybe there's like periods we do, but I don't know a lot of people. You do like a little drama. Some men do. Come on, you like a little drama. Yeah, for periods.

I don't think they like it. I think it's a subconscious attraction that they probably don't get to choose. But most of the long-term relationships, it's like, I mean, at some point it's like, no, you got to kind of. You like a little match that i throw sometimes no but i think but you tell yourself that i'm like yeah like maybe like a little but not not all the time you like a little a little zing and then pass the ketchup you like it sometimes sometimes i'm just like but that's not drama that's like charming little yeah like right

that's just flirting and that's just keeping things spicy but if i see my sisters dating that way and like behaving that way i'm like hey, hey, that's not going to end well for you. No, but there's just something that helps me in program is we just have to give people the dignity of their own experience. And we can't save people from themselves. They have to learn for themselves, unfortunately. It is hard, though, when you start learning all these tools that you're learning to not want. I find this hard in my own life to not preach, maybe. Yeah, totally.

Sometimes I'm like, I need to stop. Yeah, you want to be an evangelist. You want everyone to be as happy as you. It's like when you find your person and you start setting everybody up. Yeah, totally. It's hard not to share. What are the other sort of wellness, health, maybe self-care guides, people that you look to,

meditation, things that you do. We have a mutual friend in the Conover, so we know you know your shit on this. Dr. Conover is my guy. Dr. Craig Conover, Kelly Conover does my Ulthera on my face. She's the best. Yeah, so couple things.

I'm feeling overwhelmed, so I'm just going to break this down into bite-sized pieces, and this might not be perfect. Why are you overwhelmed? Because of the wellness thing. Because you do so much. What's that? Because of the wellness thing. Is there so much? What's that?

Is there so much? It's a lot. Good. It's a lot, but it's also kind of simple. And I just, I, I. We're ready. I'm going to, I'm going to tuck in. I was dealing 10 years ago with like adrenal fatigue.

I had costochondritis in my chest from like not breathing properly, like, like inflammation in my cartilage of my chest. Like I was septic from like drinking juices all the time. Like, you know, because of the, you know, I'm not going to say the brand, but you probably know it, you know, whatever. I was always sick. I used to have really debilitating migraines.

You know, a lot of it was the stress from my parents being sick and just the chaos of my family, you know, and I'm not taking care of myself. I did have pretty severe eating disorders when I was a teenager. That runs in my family pretty wild. I ate like sugar-free smuckers jelly for like a year I like like I y'all say to fast I was fast and maybe it worked because I was fasting like before anybody I don't know I'm kind of like maybe that that ended up being healthy in some weird way but

a lot of disordered eating for a long time. And so, you know, after going to program, you know, ACA Al-Anon doing a lot of like inner child work, like my self-care stuff is like the sleep. I don't, I don't not sleep. I just, I, I, I don't, I used to kind of glamorize not sleeping. I had really bad insomnia stuff, which by the way, it's so funny to me that all these high-performing podcasters, or men, just get $8 million for being like, you need to sleep eight hours. It's like, bitch, I think we know. We know. So I'm not going to...

You guys know that. You know. We know. We got it. We got it. We just had a sleep expert on the show, Matthew Walker, who's pretty good, actually. We know, Matthew. Everyone knows you have to sleep eight hours.

This isn't new information if you cut this out i will sue dear media you silenced a woman that actually is good headline whitney cummings sues dear media i just like i like you talk about it so much it has put me to sleep so thank you we just met but maybe we could start a relationship why are you pretending like no one knows we're supposed to sleep by the the way, I like nine hours instead of eight. I love you for that. I like nine. Love you. I mean, that's clinical depression. But, you know, so for me, sleep is big.

I think a lot of people think like comedian, busy. You probably don't sleep. Like I'm a psycho about sleeping. You know, I, you know, after being pregnant, I really kind of changed the way that I look at my body and in eating. I'm very simple with the way I eat. Now, I don't like to think about food. So I kind of just, you know I really I don't do tap water you know I just do meat eggs sourdough bread and butter like oh my god we have the same diet are

we the same person same exact same I just whatever my crunchy salt on the sourdough whatever my like high functioning autism is is like I don't like too many options i'm same way decision fatigue is like a big thing for me so i break the days down into like energy dollars and i don't want to spend my energy dollars i mean like what should i eat i just kind of eat the same thing all the time fine works for me i do um i know there's a lot about nad and nmn and all this what worked for me was this was dr conover recommended this to me years ago and i ignored him like an idiot and it's called true niagen and it's an nad booster and that completely it helps with like cellular energy there's also it's not the iv there is a niagen infusion i can't

do the iv so what can i do but no you're thinking nad i oh's an NAD IV, which I was like, nope, not doing this. Because I think there are a lot of things. And I know you're a cold plunge person. I'm happy for you. Not for me, because I love sauna. I'm like a hardcore sauna. It's really helped change my skin. Infrared or barrel?

Big fat. Infrared. Hot. Or the barrel. Air. The barrel. Infrared is too much. It's too, you have to get way too much of it, I feel like, for it to work.

She likes the barrel. I don't have time. It's like, here's my... The one with the coals or without the coals? Coals. Yeah, okay. Barrel. Coals.

But the infrared thing, who has time for... This whole thing where all these high performers are like, I'm going to live forever, but this is your life? All you do is sauna and cold plunge and get into ketosis and just you stink like you are you're fat you're starving for no one i'd like to enjoy myself a little bit too and maybe not live forever like this who's like taking his son's blood to like be younger on the show we had a lord hosted a dinner you guys have got to next time you're coming to the dinner we will change i would love to I have thoughts for all these people.

It's a Jeffersonian-style dinner. You go around. Nobody's... It's actually... You'll like it. Okay. But some... I'm not...

I'm just saying. There's... We'll bring you. We'll bring Robert Green. Wait, wait. I want to add to the NAD. The NAD. Right.

So, true nitrogen. I got pregnant naturally at 40 years old. I mean, at a time where infertility is like... I mean, I don't know. The frogs are gay and taints are shrinking. Babies' taints are shrinking. I don't know. Love you, Joe Rogan.

He has a, which by the way, can we not? Like, what are we? I love how we just like throw out these studies and we don't like go like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Who did this study and why? Who's measuring the baby's taint? Who's measuring the baby? They did it. By the way, who?

The non-binary scientists? It's like, they're like, no, no, no. A hundred years ago, baby's taints were this big and now they're this big. Everything said on a podcast

is a fact. Wait, so you were measuring taints this whole time? You just have a database of taints? It's like, the statistics that drive The official taint and measure.

The statistics that drive me nuts, the one like, women mature faster than men girls mature faster like what pedophile was like we need to prove that 18 year olds 18 year olds are mature enough to date 35 year old men yuck dude

no the answer is no so here's the thing with all these studies like we gotta chill on like everyone throwing out these studies like it's all white people it's usually it's usually people at universities it's usually students i used to do studies when i first moved to la i was broke as hell and i would do studies it would be like ucla like are you depressed i'm like probably like if i wasn't before i will be by the time i go to ucla to get 50 bucks for a study to pretend i'm depressed like i'm definitely depressed now you know and i would lie in the study because the more you they'll keep you in longer and they'll

pay you more well i also get to your point you got to wonder who's participating in these studies a bit you know who it is we know it's like college students that are on fentanyl you know what i mean so yeah so studies are i used to do studies for products and stuff you get 50 cash it was me and a bunch of like shaky meth meth addicts because you $50. I did it for, I probably shouldn't say the brands, but like skin ones and stuff like that. And I would show up. And if you were good in the study, they would bring you back for more studies. So I would always be like, well, here's the thing about the hair and I would just make shit up. And by the way, studies, here's another thing, sorry, is that it's kind of a group of people.

It's like 12 people that are kind of like, you know what I mean? And you would get to know them. You kind of agree with everything. Well, no, you just know them. It's like a jury. Yeah, it's like this ragtag group of the bad news bears. And we're just going from study to study. And someone would be like, yeah, it made me drowsy.

I'm like, no, Jocelyn's always drowsy, dude. It's not because of the pill. she's i've seen her at starbucks between studies like she's always like a little sleepy like i don't you know what i mean like and so take it all with a grain of salt okay so the way the nad caltic salt i need to go back to the nad it's a miracle list it's changed my life i got pregnant naturally at 40 is it an injection okay so you can do it in pill form. Okay. And then you can also do niagen infusion, which is not uncomfortable.

You can't do needles? I can't do IV. She can do needles, not IV. Why not? She doesn't like IV. You gave birth to two children? I'd rather give birth than do a needle. But why?

My dude is like this. But you, how? There's a vascovagal, I forgot what is how you say it. But you pass out too? I have the pill. She passes out. Let me see the pill. Hold you, how? There's a Vasco Vagal. I forgot what it's how you say it. But you pass out too? I have the pill. She passes out. Let me see the pill. Hold on.

What do you mean? Can I just take it right now? Yeah, you probably could. It'll give you like a wild amount of energy though. Oh, yes. No, don't give it to her. Please don't give it to her. Yes, give it to Michael too.

Oh, I do. So I do true nitrogen. This is, by the way. Can I take one? How many do I take or two? Take two. Dr. Conover does a patch of it. I want to see it first.

Take it. I just want to see it. This I am completely obsessed with. Sports cellular energy. I hope I'm saying all of this right. I don't want to get in trouble. It has totally changed my life. Like I was dealing with sort of postpartum, like super low energy.

Like that got me back. I took it while I was pregnant. Is it because it's NAD? NAD. It causes. So does this increase the NAD production naturally in your body? Yes, which is the thing that we lose over time, right? If you just said it that way, I would have been like, oh, got it.

Okay, well, sorry. I'm not a man that knows everything. I'm just a dumb lady. Just a dumb lady. Try it. Hold on. Let me take my alpha brain so I can get through this interview without you... What's the alpha brain?

This is Joe Rogan's thing. Oh, I haven't tried that. Yeah, Joe Rogan's my friend and it's you know, probably mushrooms and I don't know what's in here. Is it intimidating going on Joe Rogan's podcast? Or are you just used to it because you guys are friends? It's kind of tricky because it's like going

on Howard Stern used to be very intimidating. I used to love when you went on Stern. Oh, really? Thank you. I used to listen to him all the time because I drove back and forth between Arizona and school. I met your great on Stern. I would listen all the time. Oh, really? I feel like I was like unhinged on there. I was always so... That's why he loves you. That's so nice. Thank you. I used to listen to him all the time because I drove back and forth between areas. I'm at your great. I listen all the time. Oh, really? I feel like I was like unhinged on there. I was always so loves you. That's so nice. Thank you.

Here's the thing about Howard is like, OK, I might not be funny. I might not be like, but at least I'm going to be authentic. And I would always like go on there and like cry and shit. And I was just like, why is this happening?

But thank you for saying that. Rogan, it's more like to me, it's the opposite. I've known him for so long and he feels like such a friend. And when you go in there, it's like, I'm not going to like tap dance because you know me. Do you know what I mean? I'd rather be boring to his 50 million listeners than him think I'm like being corny, you know? So it's kind of this tricky thing.

Howard, I feel like you almost kind of like, you kind't, you like kind of have to do the tap dance. It feels like an environment where you're- A little bit. I usually come in with like roast jokes. I'll come in with like a couple stories. I'll come in with like, you know. Okay, so go back to your wellness routine. I'm not done.

I know that there's all these things you do. So the alpha brain you take every day? I'll take it before something where I have to use my brain a little bit. I'll take creatine too. I know you're super into that. I like creatine. But this and the Niagen IVs,

which we can fit. I mean, you can just put numbing cream on or something. So you think that I should really do it. It's that good. It is. I mean, I don't know what I was doing before. Like, I don't know what I was doing before. Do you do it?

So she makes you do it. So you guys, like, you'd love it. I love it. I i mean but i also i i look i'm i don't know if i'm gonna get in trouble if i say but again i got pregnant naturally at 40 years old and dr amy who works with them this fertility expert you know prescribes it as a part like their fertility protocol wow interesting what else any other wellness things yeah so i do a couple pills that i'm not going to be able to tell you what they are andrew huberman is our friend and he just tells me what to take and i take it n-a-c-s-a-m-e same i'll do right i don't i don't know these things i'll do

iron sometimes what else do i are you saying you're taking these based on like the labs that you have and they're saying okay like you should take these ones or you're just saying that there's certain things Andrew Huberman told me to one more people should get like a what would Jesus do bracelet

Andrew Huberman told me to because I feel like that so many people are just like you know what we're in for the Huberman protocol

he's like stop taking turmeric or you're going to get prostate cancer or something like that and I stopped and I was like I feel like I don't know

if that's true or not but also turmeric it's dumb and you know it yeah it's dumb it's dumb every time he took it he'd be like i'm taking my turmeric like what are we doing like can we be adults about this is there any other beauty yes i'm coming you're overwhelming i'm overwhelmed i'm. It's a lot of stimulus in here. So, okay. So that there's more. Okay. So sometimes I'll do peptides. I've been a little inconsistent as of late, but Dr. Conover gives me the peptides that are the BPC something, something. I also take metformin, which I'm sure is polarizing to people see in the comments, but it's that diabetes

medication where people that took it in the studies. Why did you start taking it? Because Dr. David Sinclair talked about it in Lifespan. I had him on the podcast a couple of times. And yeah, the way to reverse your, the resveratrol thing, I don't know about anymore. But I'm like not the person that's like, grapes are going to save us. Like I just, it doesn't feel true. You know what I mean?

I just don't buy it. So what does metformin do? It helps with insulin resistance? Maybe. I don't know that what I do know. I don't know if this is the same thing, but you process it's for diabetics. So you don't process sugar the same way. So in cancer, it's sugar. It's better. You know, your skin. I think my skin looks better than it was before I was taking it. I stopped getting Botox because I just for a lot of reasons. And I just, yeah, sports skin health. And basically, you're just not processing sugar the same way. A lot of people have stopped getting Botox. Is that a decision that you made just because

you're a mother now? What's the reason? I just was attracting pedophiles. And I think, look, I was sort of prescribed by like a network television person to get Botox when I was on a TV show. And I was just like, okay, like I was very young. It's in my forehead. And then I was, and I look back and I'm just like, could all of my failed relationships be because I couldn't communicate with micro expressions? Like I've gone through life being like, nobody understands me. I thought I was being clear when I said that, but like, why does everyone think I'm a bitch? You know, now that I like, you know, stop getting Botox and like, I communicate so much better. I thought I was being clear when I said that. But like, why does everyone think I'm a bitch? You know, now that I like, you know, stop getting Botox and like I communicate so much

better. I've been in this amazing relationship. I was like, could that have been it? I mean, between birth control, which hot take I know, you know, messes up who you're attracted to and then Botox and you can't even communicate with the person. Birth control is going, I think, be something that we look back on like cigarettes. Birth control pills. Yeah, maybe. I'm hearing so much shit off air, on air about birth control. I'm not touching this fucking topic with a 10-foot pole. It's tricky because of this. You have a 10-foot pole. Easy. I think that it's tricky because I think a lot of people listening are like, but our reproductive rights are being taken away, whatever. But I'll just speak for myself, which is that, you know, birth control,

I talked about this in my third special, my HBO special, it makes your body think it's pregnant. So you smell pheromones differently. So you're attracted to a different kind of man when you're pregnant than when you're not pregnant. So they say that if you're taking birth control and you get engaged,

make sure to go off it for a year and see if you're still attracted to that person. You know, so women that... Oh, this makes so much sense now. I got you when you were on it. I got you. It's too new. Women that are on birth control are attracted to more feminized faces stuff like that

listen i already anchor baby'd you twice you're you're stuck what's anchor baby i got her i got her pregnant i got to she's stuck now yeah but you never know i could change my mind i change my mind all the time so be careful you know how long have you two been together we've known each other since we were 12 years old and we talked around from 12 to 15 and then we got back together later when we were in college. Way later. Yeah, it's been a journey. But we've known each other for 25 years. It's a long time.

So it seems like you feel like now this is a really healthy relationship. He gives off really good frequency, by the way. Yeah, you give off a good frequency. I think I tell Michael I'm a clairvoyant with that. And there's like a frequency that you give off a good frequency i think i tell michael i'm a clairvoyant with that and there's like a frequency that you give off that's calm it's very calm yeah calm and calming it's a good mix yeah i mean look i mean i think that like we'll talk about in a second like the energy conservation stuff you know being in a good relationship is the ultimate energy conservation the life hack you know um wait can we just go back to the pill what was it before that and

then we'll get to the famous skateboarder who wants to steal my thunder yeah where what is it birth control okay birth control going off birth control okay botox so oh yes then i get pregnant and you know i'm like four months pregnant and i'm like oh god like what's happening and i go to my dermatologist and i'm like i need you know can i just get a little botox and he's like oh well you're pregnant you can't get it and I was like that's what the placenta's for it's fine and he was like no no there's something it's called gray baby syndrome where sometimes women that get Botox the baby comes out gray and I was like okay but just like a like if we could just get like just a tie like a tied chair and he's like no I'm you can't and

I'm like okay fine and then I just liked it it was, I almost think like wrinkles are a sign of youth at this point. You know, like I just, it was nice to just see my face again and just be able to, you know, have micro expressions. Like I definitely want people to know when I'm in a good mood or a bad mood. It's healthy and I have a baby and I don't want my baby to like not be able to attune to me because I'm just you know a robot interesting that you say that about Botox because I kind of have the same thought on filler too it's filler if you overfill your face you look older yeah like I you just do because it looks like you can almost afford a bunch of filler interest that's such an interesting like to look at it. I also have this other theory. This is off on a tangent. That's the subconsciousness. I think that when

you wear so much jewelry, like tons of jewelry, you look older because it feels like you can afford it or your husband has cheated on you a bunch of times so you have a bunch of bracelets. That's really funny. You know when people wear bracelets up their arm to hear it's like how many times did he cheat? Also, you don't shower.

Like how do you have this how do you have the kind of time to It's a lot. It just feels like How much attention do you need? Let's break it down.

A lot of jewelry makes you look older. I look at it as like when you see a really really young guy in a really really expensive car it just looks like the signal it gives off to me is like Bad news. Your dad bought it as when you see a really, really young guy in a really, really expensive car. It just looks like

the signal it gives off to me is like, oh, your dad bought it for you or something. Of course. Well, it's like my thing of when a guy's in insane shape physically. I'm just like, oh, you're unemployed. Or you're bored. Yeah, you have this kind of time to do, you know what I mean? That's what you thought about me when you came in? I mean, you're very

in shape, but you're not ridiculous. I got a little fluff. I got the fluff. That's shape, but you're not ridiculous. I got the fluff. That's good. I like a little fluff. A hard body is just disgusting. I already told you this. We don't want that. Whitney Cummings agrees with me.

I only want to be able to carry my kids' strollers and shit around at this point. That's my thing. I just want to be strong to be able to like, you know. Okay, so Chris. But hold on, hold on. There's more self-care. I'm sorry, Chris. The skin is a whole ass thing, but we can.

No, we got to get into skin first. You got to tell us about the skin because that's the first thing that I noticed about you when I met you is your skin. You have beautiful skin. That's very nice. Thank you, as do you. And it's not easy to have beautiful skin.

You have to work at it. Yeah, so I'll just say everything. People ask me a lot about this and I get overwhelmed. So I think the best place to do it is your podcast. Obviously, you talk about it so much and your fans are into it. So I read a book when I was 21 called The Wrinkle Cure by Dr. Perricone by some weird miracle. Someone told me about it. My mom worked in fashion. She worked at Neiman Marcus and Bloomingdale's. I grew up at cosmetics counters. They were my toys. She was very vain. She had all the LaPerry and the Lancome and all this stuff. Like I was obsessed with skincare at a very young age. And but I was doing it all wrong. Also, I grew up, I'm a horse person and

I grew up like, you know, taking care of saddles and leather. You never want it to be in the sun and you never want to let water touch it. And it always should have oil on it and its skin. Right. So I always just like treated my skin the way i would treat a saddle or a piece of leather same thing right so when i washed my face i never washed my face and let it dry i would put oil all over my face and then exfoliate or use the gloves or whatever and then get out of the shower and then hydrate so i never let my face like be just water and air you know i did go on accutane when i was in high school and then again later just feel the need to say that because i used to get really bad cystic zits and that i think dried out my skin a lot but i also learned later that you know we always go like don't put oil on

your face but like actually what happens is that you know oil you know the production of oil is what makes these cystic zits i know it's genetic genetic as well, but when you put oil on your skin, your oil glands stop needing to produce as much, right? So you actually stop breaking out, even though it's very anathema to what you would think you would do. So I learned all that. I read The Wrinkle Cure by Dr. Perricone. He's got a line of cosmetics I do not use. They're overpriced. Trash. I'll say it. Don't care. Promo code, Whitney. Promo code Dear Media. And I just, I'm not paying. If stress is the worst thing for your skin, I'm not going to spend $180 for an eye cream.

Like that undoes the whole point of it being anti-aging. But DMAE, alpha lipoic acid and DMAE were the things that were found to be good for the skin. I found a serum and I sometimes make it myself of those things that I've been using it since I was like 21. And then also eating blueberries, salmon, and cantaloupe. Why cantaloupe?

Don't know. Wait, you should do your own serum. I know I want to. Why don't you do your own? I was going to because I make my own. And then I do grapeseed oil and tomato seed oil. And then I do the derma roller probably like every other day. You should do your own.

I feel like people would go crazy for that. I think it would shock you how crazy. That's so why people, that's the thing I get asked most about. She's like, when we met you in Texas briefly, the first thing she said to me was like, wow, great. She doesn't say that about everybody. Oh gosh, that's so nice. I also sleep on my back only. Ew, I would never dare sleep on my side.

Agreed. Oh, yes. I mean, but also when you're applying your product, people pull down. You have to push up only, only up, only, only, only. Obviously, I've sort of chilled with the sunscreen a little bit. I used to go hardcore with it. I think a lot of it is poison unless you want to do a paid partnership with me, in which you are amazing and I only use that product but I do now the super goop it's like a mineral powder and it's just a powder that I do and do you stay out of the sun a lot not as much anymore I just

I think again like you know the stress of trying to not do something that's bad for you is sometimes as bad for you yeah so you know i remember this woman came to my house and she comes and tells you everything in your house that's killing you like the cleaners and the carpet and the formaldehyde is in decaf coffee and all the things and i was like what do i do if i'm like in the airport and there's no healthy food and she's like just have a burger like. Like, just literally go to McDonald's. It's better for you than being like, I can't find anybody.

I need some kale. I need some kale. Who is this woman? I will give you the name after because it's escaping me, but she is very worth talking about. Actually, she got into all this because she had a Botox addiction,

which is fascinating. And then she wanted to undo, I don't know the ramifications of Botox. Like, also one thing I will say is that the person that sold me on getting botox the first time said it's it's preventative so maybe the preventative worked like i'm not i'm the first to say that like i did froze you in place for a long time i just mean like you know like the wrinkles might be you know way i might look like fucking whistler's mother fucking grand canyon up here that's good that's good you, but like, so I'm also

the first to say maybe that it's impossible to tell if it benefited me in terms of that. But I also do Ulthera once a year, which is a laser. Okay. Do you like that? I do with Kelly. I don't know. Here's the other thing. It's impossible to isolate the variables because it'd be the fact that I'm doing sauna. It could be the fact that I sleep a lot. Could it be genetic? Could it be the Ulthera?

But when you go to Kelly Conover, you do the Ulthera. Ulthera, yes. Okay. Yes. Have you tried salmon semen on your face yet? You know what? I have it at home. It's hard to get.

And? Yeah. I mean, maybe not for you. No, no, no, no, no. I don't know. I go to, I do it in Austin. So I don't know if it's hard to get in LA. Okay.

Yeah. I mean, I think there's this one, Joan Dangerfield, Ronnie Dangerfield's widow is a good friend of mine and she got me a bunch of it. And I tend to think topical stuff isn't that effective. How could it be unless it's like acidic or something? But, so I tried the capsules and it was just, it annoyed me.

But if you're using it, I'll start. I do the microneedling, yeah, before I put my product on. Aren't they called exosomes? Why do you always call them semen? Isn't it just the exosomes? I prefer salmon semen. What's an exosome? I think that's like, what is it? Yeah, see, exactly.

We know what salmon semen is. Mansplain me. I don't know what a mansplain is. I thought it's called exosomes that you put on your face, but it's extracted from the... She doesn't know. No one knows what an exosome is.

Either do I, but it just sounds like... I just tried to explain NAD. I mean, the bar is low for... Michael didn't explain what an exosome is. No, I don't know

isn't that what's going you'll say like I got sandwiches on my face I'm like what are you talking about do you do the derma roller and then you do it that's what I like I like the microneedling

and then it going into my skin yeah because I mean we have so much dead skin on our face that most of our product doesn't even get to our we just put it over dead skin and it doesn't absorb anyway

so I do the microneedling the microneedling works agree everyone whose skin I like microneedles you should listen to what Whitney was saying about-hmm. Agreed. Everyone whose skin I like, microneedles. But you should listen to what Whitney was saying about not being neurotic because Lauren will get in one of those cars with like a Christmas tree hanging and she'll act like she's like getting killed.

What do you mean? Like she can't handle like the smells or the parabens from like a- The colored Christmas tree from 1990 from the gas station that smells like fake cherry. Mm-hmm. I don't want to sit in a car that smells like that. I just don't. I want to roll the window down. So you- Okay. So I don't want to sit in a car that smells like that. I just don't. I'll roll the window down. So you, okay,

so I don't touch receipts anymore. Thank you. I don't touch receipts. She's like me. Yeah, I don't. But I'm also, I'm not, I saw that fridge out there. I don't do oat milk.

I don't do almond milk. I don't do whatever just was happening in your fridge. I was appalled. Okay. First of all, that's not my choice. My choices would be a cow. Okay, good.

I'm just saying that's like some GMO choices would be a cow okay good i'm just saying that's like some gmo nonsense if there was one thing that i could get under control in this business taylor i don't know what you guys are doing for snacks in this office the snacks are the worst you should see texas texas like it's like we got a fucking meat locker over there i don't know what's going on here it's just it's you know but anyway but i i think it took i ate so much artificial shit i mean like i'm probably embalmed, frankly. Like I ate equal in aspartame for truly 15 years. Well, smucker's jelly's intense. Oh yeah, no, I'm embalmed.

Like I definitely did so many chemicals for so long and I was such a zombie. But yeah, now I kind of try to stick to like real food. You probably feel amazing though now that you've made such a drastic switch. Yeah, I mean, also a lot of it is the internal stuff too. You know, my parents passed and without a lot of anxiety and stress and shame and guilt past, you know, guilt will get you. Guilt will age you. Friendships will age you. Bad relationships will age you. And

I was doing a lot of things that were aging me. One thing I will just say really quick, since we're doing tangents anyway, is a part of my self-awareness stuff was working with horses. I grew up with them. So it's not like I'm some, you know, rich, like, you know, training them or competitive riding. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's not for me. You know, I grew up with horses like on a farm and grounding. Yeah. I had such a hard time understanding adults because I grew up with drunks and liars and people that were like, no, I'm fine. Everything's fine. But your guts, like you don't seem fine. Like it was just confusing, you know, like the way someone said something was in Congress with how they were saying it. But horses, prey animals aren't confusing. They're

very direct. They're very clear. They're not codependent. So I spent most of my time with them. And as an adult now, I rescue horses and I do something called liberty training with horses. That really helps you be self-aware because they're a mirror to your energy. And everybody right now is like, did I do this on twice the speed? I'm just trying to like blow through this. But horses like, you know, they tell you if your energy is bad or anxious or neurotic. Because when you're kind of like, no, I'm fine, everything's good.

But you're giving off this like neurotic. It's what you're talking about with the clairvoyant thing. Have you brought him around the horses? Yeah, of course. That's what you got to do. That's how I, if I had a horse to gauge a guy, that's the hot tip. You bring the guy around the horse.

Who did that tattoo? That's a good tattoo. Dr. Wu. Oh, he did all my tattoos. Oh, nice. No way. Different styles though. Really?

Back when he was a shamrock? Yeah, with Mark Mahoney. Oh, wow. Yeah. He did mine. He doesn't have a tattoo of me, but he has a tattoo of a coffin. That's you. You're in there.

That's for you, Lauren. Mahoney did this one and then Dr. Woo did that one. You know having a Mark Mahoney tattoo not to go to tangent that's like a This one and this one.

Yeah. You know that's like a I know. You know because you know he's a legend. He is a legend. Yeah he just different styles

mostly for me. I love that. I would not have thought that was Dr. Woo. Yeah like he did this That looks like Freddie Negrete. Yeah.

Well because I love his detail obviously but I wanted him to do more like traditional. That's why so you can ask that. He did everyone every single how long ago was that? 2013-14 okay long time he was over in the hut with his spot Yeah, Roosevelt. Yeah, my buddy Weston actually helped him build out that's why I have to ask you about your tattooed boyfriend Chris Please so our producer freaked out when Chris walked in.

Absolutely lost his shit. Yeah, your producer just came out of the closet like right then and there. My producer's always coming. He jogs off four times a day. We have to manage it and work it into the schedule. The only person he's ever freaked out

and wanted to take a picture with on this show is Chris and a porn star. Just because if you talk, it's not going to come up on the thing. I mean, don't outshine me, but just be near a mic. Don't outshine the master.

It's just a double Virgo thing. I like how you positioned me. Well, because when you were over there talking, I was like, he's not. You guys are really cute. Like we're going to do a clay class? You guys are really, really cute.

I know, it's weird. It's going to be like Ghost. It's really cute. We just, we literally just, we talked about that 20 minutes ago, about doing pottery together with one thing. That's like Ghost. Yeah.

You're going to Patrick Swayze-er. Yeah. You don't close. Have you ever done pottery with me? Don't make this about me, it's about them. Do you guys have like things you do, like date night or? Yeah, we do Pilates together. We just do this podcast all day yeah

totally we like to work out every single day together okay we try that we we have stuff our life together when we're not doing this stuff is actually like pretty boring it's like a home together that's good oh yeah yeah oh no i got you on that how did you guys meet you want to take it no okay she wants your perspective, your explanation. Taylor, is this coming through? Okay, so she made a joke on Instagram on her story. Wait, start. Okay, so he used to follow my stories.

What? You can't tell the story? I got this. Well, I just, here's the thing. I love him. He just goes straight to the middle. It's like there's a beginning.

Oh, you know what? That drives me nuts too. I do that too, Chris. Laura doesn't know how to tell a story. She just goes beginning and end. No, too I do that too Chris Laura doesn't know how to tell a story she just goes beginning and end no no no I know how to tell a story

but I would see him on like you know when you can see who's watching your stories and I would see it always stood out to me because his photo

if you guys want to get attention from a girl on social make it black and white make your profile because you see all this color and his was black and white

and it was just this sweet face. The black and white headshot that Mike Boyback shot. Chris Cobra Cole. I just have a white background and Mike Boyback shot the photo. And so it's just a...

So I would like see him and I'd be like, like I would register but I didn't know who it was. So he was, you were watching my stories for a long time. Yeah, totally.

And then I did a story somewhere where you had seen me on Raya. Just give the backstory. Okay. So I had seen her on the dating app Raya and liked her a bunch of times, but she never liked me back. I don't do professional athletes. And she always said on her, on like her stories and podcasts and stuff that she doesn't, she doesn't date professional athletes. I thought that was kind of funny. She posted this woman who is kind of like- What does it say about you that you're like, I'm going to get her?

She does not want to date me. What's even funnier about that is that never registered until you pointed it out. Like, what does that say about you? I was like, oh, I never even thought about it. Like, I knew that you said that and just didn't think it applied to me or something. I just love that you're like, yeah, but I'm me.

Yeah, like I didn't even apply to me. Like, it's not like vain. I just, it's stupidity. So she posted this, this woman who was like, who would like run and then stop and kind of like walk and then run again. And then she turned around and started back. You know, when you see someone on the run, make the U-turn. It was so weird. Like it was a weird clip and it was like me saying, I'm never dating again. And then re-downloading Raya. And I made like me saying I'm never dating again and then redownloading Raya. You know what I mean? Because you would be like, I'm off and then you're back.

And I made a joke about it because I would often go on Raya at almost like a, like, oh, this is fun. And then do nothing with it. And then be like, ah. It's like a video game. Yeah, it's like a weird video game. To feel like you're participating and trying. Yeah. Right. That you're kind of not. That's exactly what it was killing your soul and then i'd be like not on it forever because it was just some weird like i'm swiping to see like what this person's song is gonna be and so the hot chicks were i made i made well um i made

i go to raya for the music it's like i go go to Playboy for the music. Yeah, I know. I didn't mean to pass it like that, but whatever. So I made a joke back to her, and then we started talking back and forth. And then she was like, you know what? Here's my number. Just text me because I don't want to have to go on the app all the time. So I went to text her, and it turns out that I had texted her a year prior to that because I worked for Liquid Death and I was trying to get Liquid Death sent to her house. Trying to get me wet. Right.

Wait, wait, wait. Did you not know you had texted her a year before? No, I knew. Oh, I just didn't respond. We had to like text it or whatever. This is, and fair enough, she goes, wait, let me look at that date and then showed me her calendar

from that date and every single 15 minutes was taken up the whole entire day. It was like, Jimmy Kimmel arrived, car service,

and it was just, it was rifled down. It was a boss move. But it also wasn't the right time. We weren't, fair enough. which today's show

or tonight's show was on? It was not. Joe Rogan or H Tonight show was that? It was not. Joe Rogan or Huberman was on this day. Well, it was. Yeah, we were not meant to be back then. But the short story is we met on Instagram and at a wild time. I was, you know, eight months pregnant. And I was just like, I'm into like, like he was just so, you know, like to your point,

I think men do tend to think I'm a little bit scary or something. The Skinny Confidential Him and Her podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. BetterHelp has been a long-term partner of this show. And it's because Lauren and I are huge believers in platforms like online therapy and just therapy in general. We have done over 700 episodes of this podcast and one of the common denominators that we see in many of the high performing guests and entrepreneurs and authors and people that come on this show is that many of them have used therapy as a tool in their arsenal of tools to live a better, healthier life. Therapy has been shown to be such a huge benefit for

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slash skinny. A lot of men are intimidated by somebody who, both of you are, like it's, you have such a, like a... A point of view. No, somebody who, both of you are, like you have such a... A point of view. No, not just a point of view. A personality.

I think it's not... A bank account. No, I think there's a lot of things. Self-respect. Witty. I think it's a lot of strength. Compelling dignity. I like what he said.

It's a lot of strength. And I think it's like a lot of guys are used to the dynamic where it's like they're the strong one. And I talk about this like a lot of my friends are going to be like

oh I want a woman that's like got a career and is focused and like has their own thing. They mean like who works at a flower shop. But then they say but also is nurturing

and tender and all this. And I'm like you're kind of asking for like everything in one bucket and maybe some of the types of women you're asking for. Maybe you don't have,

but if I may, women are very lost to women. This thing, they go home and they have to be like, what was that supposed to mean? I don't cook and I don't clean. It's like, what do you do?

I'll give you, okay. So you're just a hungry, filthy bitch. A lot of, a lot of guys grow up in a dynamic where the father was the breadwinner and the mother was at home. That's just times of change.

And all of a sudden you're dating a successful woman that is maybe doing more than you and bringing home more than you and i think it does something to the power dynamic for that particular person that's not able to handle but think about it if the woman is making all the money you have all the power no i love that's what's so interesting i would be like, I would love to just kick his mother was like my mom, very strong, like. But it's and I appreciate this conversation is and there's we can go a million ways with it. But I think that for me, like almost the more whatever strong, successful I am in my professional life, the softer I get in my personal life. You know what I mean? Like I in my personal life, I'm very beta.

I do not want to be the predator. I do not want to be in charge. I do not want to be the boss. It's like he's like, what do not want to be the predator. I do not want to be in charge. I do not want to be the boss. Same way. It's like, he's like, what do you want for dinner? And I'm like, no,

but what I'm saying is some men can't make peace. And then also with, with, I'm sure you're like this with your, with your child. Like I, I've noticed I'm like a totally soft with my kids compared to how I am. Yeah. But I'm not even commenting that.

I'm just saying some men can't make peace with not being the, the, the main breadwinner. So it's more about money. Okay. Just like, it's the power thing. It's'm just Saying some men can't make peace with not being The main breadwinner so it's more about Money okay just like it's the power thing it's Like a lot of men can't make peace with like if you're If I'm dating you and you're going on the tonight show A lot of guys can't make peace with the fact it's like You're but I do think I will say

Something yeah I do think That each of you guys Have your own lane And your own you're Very successful in your own right. So there's a confidence that comes along with that. I think what you're referring to is maybe a guy that doesn't have that independence

and making his own money. It comes down to like, are you comfortable and confident in your own skin? And men and women, a lot of people just aren't. And I think you're nailing it because to me, I think part of the reason that we click so hard is I realized that I needed somebody that had nothing to prove because I never want a man to feel emasculated. I don't get off on that.

It's not hot to me. I never want to disrespect a man I'm in a relationship with. It makes it feel maternal. And then it turns into incest. It kills the relationship. I want someone that I'm completely in awe of. I know that about myself. Like respect to me is the hottest thing and i didn't realize that like in relationships i would like make myself smaller like minimize my accomplishments

because i didn't want them to ever make it worse though and i'm just being fake and i mean you're ultimately just being a liar and it's totally so it's like to me like you know chris like kind of has nothing to prove and i i had never experienced that and then maybe for me i subconsciously because of my you know unrecovered codependence at the time attracted to people that were insecure that i could caretake and pity and try to fix and all that kind of stuff and that just morally morally i'm sorry further demoralizes them whatever but i think to me it's like power such an interesting conversation because when people are like well she's so powerful and you know she makes the money and he doesn't it's like well if you're making a lot of money and working a lot, you don't have as much power

because you don't get to control your schedule. You're kind of like at the mercy of your crazy career. You're the elf. I mean, you know, I do lots of rescue stuff and there's a place called Wolf Connection in Palmdale and it's rescue wolves. A lot of psychopaths breed wolves with German shepherds and fight them or get wolves and fight them

and have them in, you know, it's, you're in Texas. You guys have more tigers privately owned than Africa, huh? And bears. Yeah. Disgusting. You know, so exotic animal rescue is kind of like a big part of my life. And so they do these programs with kids where the kids will show up and there's all these rescue wolves that are in their, you know, enclosures. And there's, you know, 15. It's a pack of wolves, right? And, you know, the first thing they ask is which one, you know, to the kids, you know, kids that use violence to solve problems, sexual assault survivors, kids that are struggling in school, whatever, high risk, at risk youth, I don't know what you would say. The first thing they ask is which wolf do you think is the alpha,

right? They're looking at these like 15 wolves, you know, one of them is digging, one of them is, you know, eating, one of them is, you know, circling, one is howling, one is sleeping, one is pissing, one is shitting, you know, one is like barking, you know eating one of them is you know circling one is howling one is sleeping one is pissing one is shitting you know one is like barking you know really loud at the the other you know one's like scared and they say which one is the alpha and they'll answer what do you think i think it's the one who's circling i think it's just the one that's probably just sitting back sleeping come on you give it look at his vulture on his arm damn it I should have said that

vultures help solve crimes it's the one that's sitting back that's interesting I should have known that you knew it I was intentionally tricky about it you can cut that out the alpha sleeps

something I also love about Chris is You can cut that out. And so the alpha sleep. So when like, you know, like something I also love about Chris is like I can be running around working and whatever and he'll just be like playing Zelda. I'm like, that is the most alpha shit. Which one? The one on the Wii?

Tears of the Kingdom. All right, I'm going to get back into that. The second Michael sits down to play video games, I'm like, what are you doing? I'm the alpha. Go work. Go make more products.

Go book some guests. Go do more conference calls. Mrs. Big Shot. Like Mrs. Big Shot. Is that your fucking vulture sitting back? Ask her why? What?

Why it's not embarrassing? Why is it not embarrassing? Oh, no. Michael will tell you. No, you know, actually, Dr. Conover told me he looked at all my stuff. He's like, hey, man,

I didn't know what he was going to prescribe for me he's like i actually need you to go and do things like play video games because you're so wired and you need you need to like get into your parasympathetic where you're not thinking about anything you're just kind of like but not like call of duty no no no just like do something where you're like actively participating but also zoning out and not like you know that austin has a toy museum of vintage video games no i didn't know that i know they a toy museum of vintage video games no i didn't know that i know they have that toy store right there on it's right off of sixth street it's got like oregon trail it's got like old school nintendo pack what's that not only that

like it is so racist it's like you know did you behead a native four points you're like jesus like and i don't think they said native but like older video games i really like too like for my son i want to get like the old school like game boy tetris stuff like those games were like pretty harmless to be honest i grew up on those things now it's gotten a little crazy how do you like being a mom i mean i feel so unoriginal because everyone sort of says the same thing you know like does anyone ever say I hate it I don't like isn't one child services just show up no I mean it's it's a miracle for me you know it's the only I don't think I was ever present before having a kid I don't think I knew what present even meant you know it was just like so I was always in the past of the future

and I was like it kind of to me feels like what drugs were supposed to feel like. It's like what I wanted drugs to do and never worked. When you have to leave with your schedule, this is one of the main questions I wanted to ask you. And you have to go do things and you have your son. How do you manage that? Because I have such a problem with it. I walk out the door. I know, but don't you feel guilty? I don't feel guilty. Here's only because, again, it's not helpful or useful. And I don't

want my son to feel my guilt and think it's his fault or something. You know, I think that like as adults, it's our job to take care of our emotional needs and not make our kids take care of our needs. So sometimes it's and I think you're just beating yourself up for no reason. It's just like self-flagellating, like, you know, your kids have an incredible life, like incredible life. And you said the thing about, you know, what is it? Intentional adversity? Like, there it is. It's right there.

You know, fine. Like, you have, we have nepo babies. I mean, someone said that to me the other day. They're like, how do you feel about having a nepo baby? I was like, that was like terrifying to me. What is a nepo baby? It's a baby that comes from someone that has money, success, influence, and they benefit from that privilege in life. There's a big backlash against Nepo babies right now.

It's their fault. Yeah, but it's also I know that if I leave and go make this money on the road, his life is going to be better. Because I'm more flexible now. I can stay home more with him. And when I'm with him, I can be more present. So like I just try to do the sort of to mention Tetris again in my head of I'll feel way guiltier if I don't go do this thing, because then I'm going to be stressed about money when he's old enough to really notice that I'm gone. That's actually very smart that you have to go kill the tiger so you can free up space to be with him to be more flexible. You know, yeah, exactly. So

it's like, you know, but I think that the mom mom guilt thing like it's it's really hardwired you know i mean i'm like honestly he says he's not but also like a thousand years ago in the woods guilt is mom's feeling guilty is what kept the babies alive i'm not gonna go do this thing and then a tiger eats you know or like you go and you don't feel guilty that was darwinism you know i think it's like you know only the most anxious survive which is why we're seeing so much you know everyone's got anxiety only the guilty survive only the guilty mom's baby survived, you know? So I think it's like, sometimes just a matter of going like, oh, this is like a primordial reptilian, you know, instinct that served my ancestors really well, but like not helpful here. I don't feel guilty because to her point earlier, like I had a mother who I remember from a very

young age working and sometimes working really late. And I do remember at times being a kid and like waiting for her to come home. But as I've older i appreciate that and i think it's also informed what i'm attracted to in a woman and i don't like i don't i i look at i look at it as it's a good thing for our children to witness both of us doing productive things and then contextualizing it to them later it's like okay to not always feel great you know the thing is about is about program is, you know, they say alcoholics. And by the way, for my thing, codependence, you know, unrecovered Al-Anon, we say in order for alcoholism to be present, alcohol doesn't have to be present. So the word alcoholic is, you know, kind of a bigger metaphor, symbolism.

You know, something they say in there is alcoholics are the only people that think they deserve to be having fun all the time. And so it's taken me a long time to just like i feel guilty about leaving my son like what like it's just like okay you're a little you have discomfort from all the amazing blessings you have you get to drive away from your son and michael's gonna play this for me in a car to your job from your house that you get to live in you know what i mean i i'm sorry i don't mean to like no it's 100 right you're so right look my son could be drowning in my pool right now for all i know so maybe this is let's see how today goes but like to me i also am really big on i was raised

by people that weren't my parents but also i was like around people that weren't my parents so i also come from like a kid needs a lot of people to love, you know? So I have someone that, you know, watches him when I'm gone. I have someone, you know, I have a bunch of people that watch him when I'm not around. And I think that's good for him. Yeah. Because I never want him to see me like overwhelmed either. Yeah. No, I think that's good. Before you go, you to me seem like a very avid reader. What are you reading? What are you consuming? That's a very avid reader. What are you reading? What are you consuming? That's a very nice thing to say.

Well, I always feel like you're like reading something or highlighting something. Whenever I listen to your podcast, you seem like you read a lot. I try to. Yeah. Also, your vocabulary is phenomenal. Oh, thanks. Well, I noticed these things because a lot of people's vocabulary is absolutely atrocious. Wow.

Well, I'm being honest. That's a big compliment big compliment thank you how can you never say that to me um you gotta stop reading biographies about about old hollywood i don't know what do you read i'm kidding she reads a lot i'm actually reading like a fiction right now that's like uh what do i read i read everything i he's saying i just read biographies that's so not true no I'm joking I read I'm reading the last Miss Parrish and it's really good what's it about the little engine that could no what are the little engine that could what's it about it's a it's you have to read the first one which is the next Miss Parrish it's just like a very like juicy easy read I like to flip flop I'll go from that to like something like crazy my next book is um Michael really wants me to read this Viktor Frankl like okay so completely opposite I like I like chaos

in the way I read love it yeah do you is that like a would you consider that like a hobby or do you do it because you know you have to talk for a living like like I love to see I'm obsessed with you know and this is an ACA thing but when I try do a hobby, like I can't not turn it into a business. I'll start reading and I'll be like, my Instagram story book club. And I'm just like, how do I just do this without, look at me reading. Like, it's so hard to not turn it into a business because my workaholism will get me. That makes sense, but it's productive. But I'm glad that you just, you're just able to just read.

See, fiction, this is very toxic. I've never been a big fiction guy. You got to read good, intense fictions that are not like beach reads. But I'm just like, this didn't happen. Michael wants you to read like Shogun. That's what he wants me to read. No, no, no. You know what I mean?

I feel like that too. But you guys, it didn't happen. I like historical fiction. But that might not have happened either. But Michael likes how someone can be that creative with their mind to make that up right totally but also like even history that's non-fiction i'm like i don't even know if this happened that's true everything i learned is i thought columbus and the pilgrims had a fun dinner well i think it's like if it's good writing and not like just like kind of frivolous mindless things yeah it's hard it's hard i i a lot of, I have a lot of recovery reading.

I mean, I'll just throw out things that I like and I try to reread the body that keeps the score is a good one. I'm sure you know about. I'll just throw out the ones, the wrinkle cure.

I just said it, you know, really worth reading. I love getting the love you want, which I mentioned. I'm just going to say all that. I'm just going to throw out the ones that impacted me. All of Robert Greene's books.

I love Marina Abramovic's autobiography i loved what um she's a performance artist who's just a gangster like i read steve jobs out of i love reading kind of that sort of stuff babe what do i like who am i what's that book that you're reading right now i'm reading a biography about kurt kirkorian because that sounds good the way they describe him in the book is the, but this is not a good example, but they're saying, and this is pre-presidency, so keep that in mind.

He was basically one of the richest men in the United States that you've never heard of. He was the exact opposite of Donald Trump. He owned almost all of Vegas. He owned MGM for a while.

He donated to a shitload of charities. Does he talk about how he built Vegas? He never talked about, he never wanted his name on a building, his name on anything. He was very shy, very quiet.

And he was really hard to write the book, but he was one of the most successful entertainment, real estate tycoons of all time. Yes, I want to read that. That sounds good. Ooh, Zen Mind, Zen Horse is a big one for me. I started reading Coyote America. Dr. David Agus did a book about,

it was like ancestral animal wisdom. A lot of it's sort of like studying animal stuff the new right i read recently the michael malice book the madness of crowds douglas murray but yeah i guess i'm a little big reader yeah i try i'm really trying you know what's a good book this is a biography i can't get enough of hitler oh the guy was a star like i cannot i haven't read anything on him really you probably have right um i'm not sitting around with mine comp lauren no i'm not i go on ebay and just buy these hitler books like about him yeah one is called i'm hitler's i was hitler's doctor it's like the

doctor that gave him all the methamphetamines and stuff that's just a little too dark edge of my seat is it good i don't know yeah that. You're just saying it's like fascinating. I'm fascinated by these weird... I also got really into collecting L. Ron Hubbard books. You went into Scientology? I'm not in Scientology. They said no to me. They said no.

They rejected me when I first moved to LA. I tried so hard and they were not interested. Why? They couldn't mold you enough. I have snitch energy. They're interested now. I have a big... Call me. You were going to tell. Show up. I have snitch energy. They're interested now. I have a big... Call me.

You were going to tell. Show up. I'm telling you, I went. A girlfriend of mine was recruited. She was becoming famous at the time and that's who they would sort of target. And so, Helena Christensen invited her to a brunch. Okay, I'm 20 years old. I'm living in a studio apartment. I'm literally making money at Buffalo Exchange. I went to an acting

class with Sean Lennon and he was a friend of mine and he would leave like really valuable vintage t-shirts at my house and i would sell them at buffalo exchange for money i have told him that i did this and that's how i would make money and so i i was like forty thousand dollars in debt and then i would do my focus groups and then i went to the scientology center it is you know have you seen it on Franklin? I mean, it's magical. It's Narnia. And we pull in

and Ginny's like, oh no, oh no, my friend that I was with. I should probably blur that out. Who gives a shit? And I'm in there and I was like, I'm in.

Like, I was like, this is what I thought Hollywood was. Hollywood was this like shithole. I'm in this horrible apartment. I was like, this is what I came for. Like, I want to live in a castle with a bunch of actors.

The guy from Lost was there. Giovanni Ribisi's there having brunch. I'm like, yes, where do I sign? Where do you do the retinal scan?

Take, what do you want from me? And they would, they were just not interested. I was like, I was like, I would like to enroll in this. They just said no.

Psychiatry sounds like a scam. I will say, in that particular field, I feel like if you're a star or an actor or a comedian or somebody with a platform, they really take care of you. Okay.

Don't you feel that? But I'm a snitch. I'm not someone that they would want. They must have thought they couldn't control you. Yeah, no. Because I have since, now I'm obsessed.

If you reject me, your life is going to get tricky. I have now looked into all the maritime law stuff, like their boats and shit. Like I'm kind of obsessed with it. Her books, Leah Remini. Remini, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good book.

I'm just kind of obsessed. It's also I'm a little bit like, look, I feel like if you're susceptible to that cult, you should do it. I kind of get what you're saying. What would they, the people that think that's a good idea, if they were loose in the streets, what would they be doing? Yeah, if you think it's a good idea,

you should join it. I don't want you out, you know what I mean? I don't want you on hinge. I don't, we don't, go do that. I think people want a community, some people so bad that there's, that's attractive.

That's my biggest fascination right now. This is what I'm sort of working on for my next special adrenaline junkie or whatever it is generally is how we fill the god-sized hole it's been interesting to see as religion has you know sort of gone out of vogue or whatever it is like i mean religion serves the purpose of like productivity cooperation makes dopamine people cooperating having community and that's gone away and i'm fascinated by these other religions that we kind of make, whether it's like yoga, whether it's astrology, whether it's ketosis, whether it's I'm taking blood from my son. Carnivore diet. Carnivore diet. Like all of these MMA, all these other religions that we kind of don't see that way. All these atheists that are

like, screw religion. And then they're like in soul cycle every day. Like, you know, so I'm fascinated by the ways that we kind of fill the God size hole. Whitney Cummings, you are damn good on a mic. You have an open invite to come on our podcast whenever you want, anytime. You can, you know what will kick Michael off? You can come on with Chris, come on anytime you want. I know you're busy, but honestly,

you're really great on a mic. Where can everyone find you? Pimp yourself out. I'm sarahsilverman.com no I am touring right now so I'm coming to Austin soon

we will come see you Dallas Houston Austin yeah I'm at the Moody Theater at the live okay what is it called Austin City Limits

live oh when September 6th I think yeah and then I'm doing a bunch of tour dates and stuff and then

yeah I'll shut up I can't believe you stand on stage and you make people laugh. That is not a fucking joke. When you grow up in alcoholism and you're trying to make alcoholics laugh all your childhood, it's kind of the same thing. I mean, that's what you're doing. You're making people drinking laugh. You go to Pilates.

I don't know how you do that. Pilates, traditional Pilates. It's quiet. It lowers my cortisol. But it's like hard, right? Pilates is not really what I focus on. I focus on weightlifting. That's changed. Okay. Pilates looks like a prank. It's more for mobility. Okay. It's more for like stretching and opening my posture. I stretch like all day. Yeah. Yeah. And you're on that like thing that you're former. I just do that like one hour a week. Okay. Oh, okay. That's it. The weightlifting

is one. You're mostly, yeah, that's my thing too. Do you do like cardio? I do a little bit of cardio, but mainly weightlifting. Okay. I love that. Yeah. I do like Andrew's like zone. We listen to a human episode and that's what we do now.

Zone one, zone two, whatever it is called. Oh, okay. Whatever I'm supposed to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then he was like, make sure to sleep eight hours. What would I do without you? Whitney, thank you for coming on the show. Thank you, Whitney.