The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Whitney Wolfe Herd On How To Build A Billion Dollar Business, The Future Of Relationships & AI, Entrepreneurial Burnout, & Balancing Motherhood

Episode Date: April 6, 2026

#959: Join us as we sit down with Whitney Wolfe Herd – Founder & CEO, Bumble Inc., a women-first relationship platform committed to fostering healthy relationships across dating, friendship, and community. Whitney launched Bumble to challenge outdated norms in dating and empower women to make the first move, making history as the youngest woman to take a company public in the US. In this episode, Whitney pulls back the curtain on what it really takes to build a category-defining company – from the relentless hustle and high-stakes pressure to navigating entrepreneurial burnout and redefining success on her own terms. She shares the wellness rituals that keep her grounded, how motherhood transformed her leadership, and what it really takes to build something impactful. Plus, she dives into the future of modern dating – and how Bumble is leveraging AI to create more intentional and meaningful human connections.   To Watch the Show click HERE   For Detailed Show Notes visit TheBossticks.com   To connect with Whitney Wolfe Herd click HERE   To connect with Lauryn Bosstick click HERE   To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE   Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE   Head to our ShopMy page HERE and LTK page HERE to find all of the products mentioned in each episode.   Get your burning questions featured on the show! Leave the Him & Her Show a voicemail at [phone].   To learn more about Whitney Wolfe Herd and all she is building, visit http://Bumble.com.    This episode is sponsored by The Skinny Confidential The beauty tool that started it all, redesigned to evolve with you. Shop Ice Roller at https://bit.ly/IceRollerSilver today.   This episode is sponsored by FRE Nicotine Try FRE Nicotine Pouches today at http://FREpouch.com and use code "SKINNY" for 25% off for NEW customers only.    This episode is sponsored by ARMRA  Go to http://armra.com/SKINNY or enter SKINNY to get 30% off your first subscription order.   This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Sign up and get 10% off at http://BetterHelp.com/skinny.   This episode is sponsored by Hiya Health Receive 50% off your first order. To claim this deal you must go to http://hiyahealth.com/SKINNY.   This episode is sponsored by Beekeepers Naturals  Go to http://beekeepersnaturals.com/SKINNY or enter code SKINNY to get 20% off your order.   This episode is sponsored by Ollie Ollie. Feed the Obsession. Go to http://ollie.com/skinny and use code skinny to get 60% off your first box!   This episode is sponsored by HERS It's time you get the support that actually reflects your needs. Start your free intake at http://ForHers.com. Produced by Dear Media

Welcome to the Bostics, starring Lauren Bostic and Michael Bostick. Together, they are the Bostics. Let's get the lay of the land. We were talking off there about you as a mother. I feel like you're asked so many business questions all the time, and we'll get to that. Three kids. Three kids. What is life really like for you behind the scenes with three kids?

Forget about the business for a second. And as a wife, probably what it's like for you, I would imagine. So I have three kids, two boys. It's a hybrid of like a wrestling match at my house all day long. I literally have never met anything in my life with more energy than two brothers. It's unbelievable. And now I have a new baby girl. So that has brought like so much harmony and peace.

But my babies are everything. Like they are my number one. I'm obsessed with them. I love being a mom. I just, I mean, I'm sure it's the same way you feel. It's just like they... The best. It's the best.

It is the absolute best. But we're not at the stage because we went girl, boy, boy, and our youngest is only seven. So we haven't, like our middle is a ton of energy, but we haven't experienced the two-brother energy yet. It's coming. Everyone that has two boys says it's coming. Buckle. What kind of little girl were you when you were growing up? Calm and creative.

I would like sit on the ground and draw all day long. Like very calm. So you weren't like, you weren't set up to be entrepreneurial. Well, I don't know about that because I do think every entrepreneur is inherently imaginative or creative. I mean, that's kind of the foundation of being an entrepreneur. You're a dreamer, right? And all I wanted to do was kind of build these little imaginary worlds and draw them or bring them to life through art. And so I do feel like I had an entrepreneurial kind of capacity.

I was always obsessed with creating things. I don't know if it was meant to be in business or not, but I loved to make things and build things and create things. With your own kids now, are you, like, leaning into that for them? Kind of, actually. So it's funny, my son was begging me for a job because he wanted to save $200 for this, like,

I'm very anti-technology for kids, like super scared of it. It terrifies me. But he wanted, this kid friendly, it basically only calls mom and dad in 911. He wanted to just make $200. And so I've been trying to create, you know, I'm trying to show him what money is and how it works and how hard it is to earn money. So he was begging for a job. And so over the summer, we got him this little, like, fake job as this little beach lifeguard helper when we were on a

trip and they paid him in coconuts. He was like, this isn't money. Like, what am I going to do with this. I can't do anything. I was like, well, let's turn the coconuts into a business. So we painted the coconuts and we called it crazy for coconuts. And then he put a sign out and had the coconuts for sale for like $6. But if you wanted a custom coconut, it could be $12. So some of our friends and family were saying, okay, well, I want a coconut with this on it. And so he would go and design it. And then he started to learn, like, how do you make money? So I'm trying to teach him. He's only six, But I'm trying to instill this kind of imaginative, if you want it, make it, build it, solve it, mindset. As an entrepreneur, you kind of are able to look at things that others may not see the opportunity in, to your point with the coconuts.

Exactly. There's an opportunity here if you're clever enough. That's exactly right. And I wanted him to take that away. It's like, okay, someone gave me a coconut, which is such a good metaphor in life. You know, you feel like you're handed coconuts all day long. Like, oh, I don't want this coconut, you know, whatever that might be in life. Like someone said this or gave me that.

And I love to turn straw into gold. Like that is my favorite thing to do is like, okay, hand it to me. It might look like nothing, but I love to find the opportunity in things. And I feel like that's honestly probably how I've built my career is just seeing the light and looking for the cracks of opportunity in moments that didn't present themselves that way. When was the first moment you remember doing something like that where you were like there was a light bulb and you said, can turn something into gold. In college, I started a business.

So I just wanted to find a way to kind of create change, but also build or do something. And I was part of the sorority, which it's so funny. When I was in the sorority, I felt, I feel like they hated me because I was like a bad sorority person. I get it. I get it. The parking tickets, the absences. Like, I never went to chapter.

I mean, I'm pretty sure they threatened to like denounce me from the sorority. Kappa. And now I'm, now that I think they like me now. So I'm glad. I'm like, my picture's still in the walls. Yeah, I've been reclaimed. So that's good. I started this silly little company in college, these bamboo tote bags. They were like made out of bamboo fibers or something environmentally friendly. And I put art on it. And I was selling them around campus to try to raise money for the animals and the BP oil spill. who knows how or why I arrived there as an 18, 19 year old. But that was just like one moment of me just trying to go and hustle. And then I learned how to do the little like Facebook ads.

And, you know, I went from there. You're really a creative strategist. Maybe. I think I have, I'm pretty sure I am just really hyperfunctioning and have to put my energy into things at all times. You seem like, I feel like I relate to you. Ever since I listened to you on, what's the podcast about the founders? How I built this. I feel like I relate to you because it seems like you bring an intensity to your work. I feel like I'm very intense at work. But how do you channel that when you're at home? Is there an intense schedule? Are you intense about being present? Is it in your calendar? Or are you more like LACS?

So first of all, I'm trying to be more like you. I saw your, I think your AI calendar that you build. I try. Listen, I've, that's amazing. That's after 10, 10 years. trial and error. I've always been like that. Well, it's amazing. Oh, and by the way, I order all the stuff that you, I have like a shift wave chair sitting in my room. I don't even know how to set it up. Oh my God. I'm going to text you the best one. Is it good? It's so good. It's so it. It's supposed to be good for your nervous system and you're like HRV. You will love it. If I, like, I heard you on that podcast. I've heard you on other podcasts. You will love it because it changes your state. Great. I need that. We need that. So yes, I'm very. I'm very. I'm very. I'm very. I'm very. intense at work, but here's how I would describe myself. I was the student who either got an A or got a D. If I'm uninterested in something, it's not going to happen. Like, it's just not going to happen. I cannot fake it. I cannot halfway something. I'm either 100% in or I'm just completely out. And so if I love it, if I'm passionate, if I care about it, you're going to get the sun, the moon, the stars, and the sky. Like, I will go 100 million percent at something.

But if I'm not into it, I'm just, like, not going to give it even an ounce of energy. And so, I think I've, I've found a career that I genuinely love. I love connecting people. I love helping people find love. I love bringing people together. It's genuinely my passion. Even outside of Bumble, like, I love to bring my friends together and be like, you need to meet this person or you're like to dot connect with people and so because i care i'm going to do a great job at it and like this is how i am with my house like designing a home i i i'm i'm i am technically oCD i've been diagnosed with oCD so i'm very particular like devils in the details tell me about that what what's what's the oCD is it like making sure the labels are out what do we so i'm

OCD about a few things. Like, one, I'm completely neurotic and weird about shoes in a house. I'll take it to a different level. Like, I'll hold a grudge if someone comes into my house with shoes on. I can't even have a conversation with someone if they had their shoes on in my house. I'm like, I like will start like, yeah. I do that too. So what do you do with say shoes off? Oh, no, there are no shoes in our house. No shoes. No, you can't wear shoes inside. With your fecal matter shoe in my house. Exactly. You stepped on a heroin needle outside and then you want to walk in the house. And then the baby's calling. You can't cut it.

When I was doing my skipping around in heroin needles, I forgot about that. No, but seriously. It's like an answer. It's on the asphalt. It's a no. Well, listen, we don't live in L.A. anymore. Seeing L.A.

I'm just kidding. Go ahead. Actually, I'm not. It's true. So I'm super OCD about that, but I could also obsess over, like, the lining of something. If it's, it's off. I just, I fixate on things. But then that also has a downside, right?

There's a positive because if I set my mind to it, I will do. do it. Like if I say I will get this done and I will build this thing and I will make it work, oh, I will make it work. But the problem is if I get in a negative loop, it's really, it carries you off. I have, I'm super hypochondriac. So if you, if I get on a loop about like a health thing, I cannot get off the loop. And so that's been a problem for me. So you ruminate on it. Yes. So if you, if somebody, like if you think that you have some kind of ailment, even if you don't, It's almost like you get stuck in such a way that you can't stop thinking about it and it drives you insane. Yep, it used to.

And then I started meditating. TM. Okay. Did you do training for that or you just? Bob Roth. Okay. Oh, I got to look him up. Changed my life.

Oh. You don't know Bob Roth. No, should he come on the show? Immediately. Okay. Bob is spectacular. Okay. He is, you know, I was that type of person.

I don't know how y'all are. but I was convinced that meditation was just like not for me. I was like, oh, no, I'm too high functioning for that. I can't meditate. And he came and did this four-day session with me. It took a couple times. The first I was like, what? Like, you know, okay, I got to go.

Like all the lists. And then the second day, it was transcendent. And it is a game changer for me. So meditation has been huge, spirituality, not religious, and no knocking on religion. I mean, be whatever you want to be in this world. But believing in like higher power, coincidence. I don't know. You know who you need to have on is Laura Lynn Jackson. Who's that? Oh my God. Okay. I'll introduce you to Zuska. Give me Zuska. The facialist. We'll trade all these things. But Laura Lynn Jackson changed my life. She wrote the book signs.

Have you wrote the book signs? I just bought that. Okay. Read the book. Okay. I'm going to set you up with her. You need to do a session with her. It's going to change your life. Okay, can't wait. That's a sign. Yep, that's a sign. So, like, having a spiritual connection and meditating have been my two, like, God sends. I think, I mean, as you're talking, I wonder if this, if you relate to this, I don't

not think meditation is from it. I know it could be. And I know other things as well. Like, there's other good, but I. You think you're too high functioning. No, no, I don't think it's too high functioning. No, no, no, I don't. I know.

And I, like, there's probably trauma work I need to do. And there's probably, like, but what happens. But what happens is I'm like, I get to a place where I'm like, okay, I got to accomplish a few things and get through a few things and then I will focus on that at some point. You're an end then person. I know I need to do it, but sometimes I don't put it at the forefront and make it a priority. I kind of just like grit the teeth and go through it. Okay. If I were you, I would call Bob Roth tomorrow.

Okay. Give me his number. I will. Carson, put this down for me. No, I got him into cranial sacral, which is my favorite thing. Oh, yeah, that's great. I feel like you're, energetically, I feel like you've done cranial sacral. I love. Okay, so I love it. He, the cranial sacral doctor, Dr. Maria and Austin, she's amazing, told him that he's blocked. You can't get to the dungeon. Okay.

Listen, I think how you become, what you become in life, like, what you're driven, like, we had somebody on before, like, what drives you is not always what serves you in the long run, right? And so, you know, I think a lot of people that are maybe type A or driven personalities or people that want to accomplish, like there's probably some skeletons in the, the closet, right? That's like what the driving force is, right? Like, you probably know better than most. And I think I did a good job of like pushing a lot of things down for a long time and probably still do. And so when she says blocked, I think she's just like, I'm not as open to others, right? And so what I mean by like, there's probably some things I need to work through is like, I'm aware that there's, like, I'm sure there's things that I need to get out, but I just haven't done it yet. You haven't done it. Yeah. And you're like, I'm too busy. I'll do this later. Yeah, and it's, and the problem is, is like, I know at some point, but what I do is I go, go, go, and then I crash and burn. And we were talking off air, like, you now got to a place, which we should talk about, you take breaks. But I am very much like, go, go, go till the wheels fall off and then crash and then recover. What did burnout look like specifically eat, feel? Like, what was the, give us the whole shebang of what the burnout for you looked like. Was it a day? Was it a year? What was it? You know, I think my lowest,

point was the IPO, which is funny because to the outside world, you know, we IPOed at $16 billion valuation or something, ridiculous. I was 31. I mean, like they had shut the whole street down to turn the office. And were you the first woman that achieved? I'm like the youngest woman to take a company public, like all this. Yeah, but like, so what, you know? And that was, that was my realization was like on paper, I'm like all over the internet. I'm the youngest this. I'm the that. I'm now a self-made billionaire on paper and all da-da-da-da-da-da. You know, these are the things that you think for a decade are going to make you feel, feel something worthy or enough or you know, accepted or validated, right? Because this is just what you assume drives that.

And I think this was this mountain I was climbing for so long. You know, when I got there, I remember after the IPO, I just, I just like broke down and like sobbed. I felt so, I just felt empty. And I had my beautiful baby with me. My firstborn, Bobby, my husband was there. You know, I had it all, but I was empty. And I think I was empty for a couple reasons. The first reason was I had just burnt myself, like you had said, like to the ground. I mean, I was waking up at three in the morning to breastfeed my child and then, you know, go back to sleep a little bit, then watching the monitor all night, and then getting on these, you know, pre-IPO lead up because he was already older by then, but it took like a, you know, almost a year to prep for all of this. So I just had

this baby. And right when I come out of having the baby, you know, we had closed our Blackstone deal. And then shortly thereafter, we like started prepping to go public. So it was just this race. It was like a marathon while entering into new motherhood. And I just, I just zapped myself. I depleted myself of everything. And I was just, it was like the worst time of my life. I didn't even know which way was up or down. I think I'd postpartum depression, which I didn't know what that was. And I felt guilty for having it because I was like, oh, I have child care. And, you know, I'm, my baby's healthy. And so there's all these. feelings of like you don't deserve or you're not allowed to feel these ways because you have it so much better than others. And there's this narrative of like I don't have permission to feel this way. And so much pressure put on myself. So I think the IPO on paper to the world, it was like my wealthiest, you know, most fruitful, most like successful moment, right? Like all over it. And I was just completely empty inside. It was just dark. what did you do to rejuvenate yourself? What are the steps that you took because maybe someone's

listening right now and they feel the same way, they feel empty. What did you do? So the first thing I realized was success is not external. It's just not. It's internal. It's internal. It really is. Like no amount of external validation will do it. Like it doesn't matter. And I think there's this narrative like, well, when I get to the next level, I'll feel it. Or, maybe that next level, that next level. But what happened to me was like, I got to the top of the mountain. Like where else was there to go, right? Astronaut syndrome.

I was just like, where, yeah, like, where am I going to go from here? It was, the answer was clear. The only place to go from there was in. Like, stop going out, you know, metaphorically. Like, stop seeking this outside. And that was what started my whole quest into meditation and connecting with a spiritual force and having a deeper understanding of the why of everything and kind of decoupling ego from soul, which I think is really an interesting exercise. Like if your ego lives on this shoulder and

your soul lives on that shoulder and every single thing you do every day, it's like which side of the road is it going to? Like, are we doing this for our ego? Are we doing this for our soul? Which is our higher good. And the funny thing is, these things usually don't like each other. like what's good for your soul is oftentimes not good for your ego and vice versa what were you doing for your ego and what are you doing now for your soul so now i don't do anything for my ego nothing nope what do you what do you that's not true like i do like beauty stuff i guess for my ego like you know i'm trying to get my hair healthy and like i like i like i feel like you know there's all the beauty stuff but i feel like that's a personal confidence thing yeah it is it is and i don't

think it's an ego thing in the sense that i'm doing it for us I think it's more of like it fills my cup and makes me feel better about myself. I don't really do anything out of ego. I say no to a lot of stuff now. Like I don't want to fit in. Don't invite me to the party. Just like honestly don't. Just don't even invite me.

I don't want to go. Same. What is that called? It's not Jomo. It's not FOMO. It's just IDWG. No, it's Joy. It's Joe Mo.

No, I don't want to go. Oh, I don't want to go. IDWG. No, but you know, here's what I think is so interesting. And you know this, especially with the work that you've done, there's a lot of men and women that will look at your accomplishments and they dream of having that kind of success and those kind of resources. And what's interesting talking to people like you and others that have been on the show

that kind of reach the top of the mountain is I think if you're not solid here to begin with before you get there, like no amount of external validation or money or resources or abundance is ever going to solve that. No chance. And what I've noticed personally in our own lives, not to the same degree, but it's never the end that gives you the satisfaction. Like, it's always the in between and the build. And then what's actually funny is like by the time you get to the end, it's a little

bit disappointing because you think you build it up and you think it's going to feel a certain way and then it doesn't. And you're like, well, now what? Yeah. No, definitely. And to take it a step further, remember, my journey is not just like, oh, here we go. to the top and stay at the top and like now we're hanging out at the top like look at what's happened since then. I mean, our stock is down 96% for no reason. I mean, who knows what people, you know,

trade stock on, right? But if you think that that's also not a wild feeling, like to fall, okay, you get to the top of the mountain, then you fall off of the mountain. It's like, it's crazy. And, but here's the cool part. So because when I got to the top, I had this epiphany, like, oh, wait a second, this was never the quest. Like, this was never the journey. Like, the real destination is inner peace and inner validation. So let's go on that journey. And then it makes you a better person in the endeavors that you take in the world because you are operating out of a place of, you know,

know, stillness and self-assurance and you're not erratic and you're able to see things clearly. So when our stock tumbled down to like nowhere, which by the way, the company is still performing very well. This is a business that makes almost a billion dollars a year. This is a real company. You know, we posted, you know, I want to be careful what I'm saying publicly versus, you know, because we're in a quiet period, but we make, you know, a lot of profit or a very profitable business. But the stock is just writing, the stock market has just basically written us off as if we're dead. So that's a very strange feeling to just be written off after being the darling of the stock market. So these are very polarizing feelings. But here's the magic in it.

Because I had spent so much time going inward, healing, self-reflecting, you know, forgiving and also, you know, kind of connecting to this inner place of peace and spirituality. I'm not, I'm not impacted by it. Oh, I'm not. I was more, I was, I was more upset internally when I was at the top than I am at the perceived bottom. Because if you were to just look at me from an outsider's lens right now with where, where things are kind of measuring us, I have a different measuring stick. And that's the biggest differentiator. I've switched out my measuring stick.

And I think that is one of the most powerful unlocks for any human beings. is ask yourself, like, what is my measuring stick measuring? As you've grown, what do you think you cared about some of those external validations so much prior to doing the work on yourself? Seeking love. I think that's what we're all doing as human beings. You know, we are all on this quest to be loved, to be wanted, to be validated, to be needed. And we all have our own, wounds, you know, like we were just saying, like each and every one of us has some inner wound of feeling unloved or not worthy of love. And it's so funny that I'm in this business of love, right? And here I was out in the world helping all of these people find love. And really the person I needed to help find love was myself. But it was love of myself because I have an amazing husband

who you guys would actually really love him. He's incredible. He's a cowboy. He's a cowboy. in the rodeo in Aspen all summer every summer. Oh, we went to the rodeo. Oh, you did? We probably saw him. Yeah, probably saw him. Wait, he's like performing in it? Oh, yeah, he's in the rodeo.

And my son goes out with him on a pony and they ride out in the rodeo. It's too cute. Enough talking about him. I don't like when women come on here and talk about really masculine guys that make me. That's hot. The rodeo. Enough about that. It's a different thing.

Enough. I'm a podcaster, okay? You know what? Podcasting is also a road. It's a version of a rodeo. I wanted to switch gears with you a little bit. I would feel remiss to not ask you. You've talked about burnout. We were discussing before the show started. There's, I think, a lot of miscommunication, misinformation, around what it actually takes to build something like you've built or to build, you know, a lot of successful entrepreneurs. And there's this idea of balance. Scott Galloway was recently on the show and he said, listen, you can have it all, but you can't have it all at once. Amen. And, you know, I think someone like Kim Kardashian got a lot of shit by saying, like, you have to work. your ass off. But what I, I took issue with her getting shit because it's the truth, right? Like,

she told the truth. She told the truth. And people got upset about it. And we went through this weird period of time where everyone was like, tell me everything I want to hear as long as it makes me feel good, but don't tell me how it really is. For someone who's actually built a billion dollar, beyond billion dollar company, what did your life look like as you were doing that and what sacrifices did you actually have to make? It is all in, all day, all night. there is no mode there is no off switch you are on or you are off

and that's the truth now there's a caveat I think in the era of AI where you have these new tools we can talk about that in a second but if we look backwards for anybody that thinks

that I just like showed up and you know like put on a yellow suit and like said download Bumble and like it turned into a billion dollar company like, sorry, that didn't happen. What did each of your days look like? It was, okay, so I was 25 years old when I started Bumble.

Just 25, actually. And I probably worked, let's see, I would work all day. I would obsess all day. I would be so focused that I actually lost touch with most of my friends. I had a terrible relationship with anyone that was further than five feet from me because I was so focused. I luckily was with my husband, who's now my husband, through all of it. So he was my rock. And he was a really steady person, but listen, I sacrificed everything.

My physical health, my mental health, my relationships, my quality of life. I worked all day every day and I never stopped ever. For how many years? I was probably in fighter flight for, I was 25 when I started it, 2019, we, I had my first child, we sold to Blackstone, we took it public 2021. You know what? I would say that this went right until I had my first child. And then I was forced.

I mean, as you know, like it jolting. It catapults you into like, like, like, a whole new 24-7 world. And then, and I hope you can talk about this because I sure feel it, you feel guilty at work. Oh yeah. But then you feel guilty at home because you feel like you should be working. It's a real mind fuck. It is a real, real, real, real, real thing. Yeah. Well, and what also people don't talk about is like maybe some people are listening, but why would you make all those sacrifices as you're building what you were building? There's a lot of people that. that are now reliant on you performing, your team members, the people that work for you,

your investors, your partners. You can't just be like, hey, you know, I'm just turning off because people's livelihoods are now dependent on your performance. But then you also don't want to be on your phone in front of your kids. I mean, that's how I feel. I mean, welcome to my world. I know. It's like such a conundrum. It's hard. I'm like hiding in the bath. Yeah, I feel torn between two worlds most of the time. And it, it's really hard. The reason I wanted you. It's so hard. Men, though, are able to switch it off. Like, I notice when he comes home, it's like, like, he's in dad mode. And when he goes to work, he's in work.

How do you do that? I'll explain, like, I don't know if it's a man or a woman thing, but I would, I'll just explain how I rationalize it. I just rational, like, one, I grew up with a mom and a dad who both works. Like, my mother always worked. And I just, that was like a normal example for me. I actually think it's helped me with women later because I'm used to seeing that version, right? That's a gift.

Yeah, she was always that. She still is. The way that I rationalize it is like, okay, well, I have to put food on the table and make a living to build resources for the family. And like, this is just what it is. I could not do that. And, you know, then maybe some of those things are sacrificed. But rationally, I'm like, this is just like what it's like input output type thing. Oh, I miss the kids. I want to be with them more. Obviously, I want to spend as much time. But I think I'm able to just kind of, I think a lot of men are able to just say like, this is what you're supposed to do. Yeah. Gender dynamics are obviously switching. Gender dynamics are a big deal. though, because I think we do carry a lot of this guilt is insane. It's heavy. It's heavy. I want to be careful, but I mean, until the last, you know, 100 or so years, there was very few women in the workplace compared to there are now. There was definitely much fewer women that were leading organizations and building and being the CEOs and the founders. And so maybe from an evolutionary perspective, men have just, the dynamic has been like, Men go to work.

That's very real. And so, you know, maybe we got rid of the guilt generations ago, I don't know. Perhaps. I also think there's one distinction. I'm curious if you agree with me or not. And I don't say this in a way that men don't care. That's not what I mean. Men do care.

And I adore and cherish my boy as my husband. I think men are, you know, there's nothing negative in this statement. I believe that women are so deeply nurturing and caring and thoughtful, inherently that when we care so much at work, we can't just like leave it at the door. When we care so much at home, we can't just like leave it at home. I just think we are deeply, deeply caring. Sensitive. And I don't mean that in a women are sensitive and men are not. I just think there is this inherent nature to care and to put our everything into what we do. Men do the same. But for me, it's just every mom I know

and every father I know like they all love their children equally there's no distinction like I believe that you two both fundamentally love your children the same there is something about a mom that just feels this need to be present and it's like this energetic presence

that is different it's just a hundred percent different we take our kids on walks all the time and sometimes Lauren will start the walk without me and she'll be like meet me in the neighbor and I'll go. And when I'm not there, it's different. When I'm there, they behave different. Like, there's an energy that children react. I'm sure you see this with your husband. Like, it's just, I don't know how to explain it, but I think children recognize that energy. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Tax season is upon us. And here's the thing, financial stress can affect us more

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Because if I treat Bumble as this like obligation or this stress or this like thing that I'm sacrificing for my babies, I'm going to hate it and I'm going to stop doing it. And that's not really what I want. I love my job. I love my career. I thrive helping build products that can change people's lives. Like, I just treat Bumble like one of my children. And, okay, I'm with this child right now. And now I'm with that child.

And I just, I love what Bumble stands for in the world. And I'm also deeply purpose-driven human. I think what you do in the world changes things. It really impacts people for the better. And so when you can see that there's self-lessness also in what you're doing and you're not just plugging away in a way that you hate or you feel unfulfilled, I think it can change the game. And so I always tell my mom friends this.

Like, I have equal amount of working mother friends as I do non, every mother's working, let's be clear. I have equal amount of moms with two careers, which is one raising their children and one, you know, working, doing something else. And ones that just choose to exclusively raise their children, which I think both are excellent choices. but the ones that hate their, their job,

I'm like, you need to stop. Like, don't sacrifice. Unless you love it, switch it. Do something different. I'm not saying quit

and give up on a career, but you need to find a career you love. And I think this is the beauty of having children. It makes you more intentional. Yep. I think when you have kids, time starts mattering

in a way that it didn't matter before. And you stop doing the like, I'll stick it out for another year. Or I'll see how I feel in two years. Or I'll get a drink with you, even though I don't know you that well. Yeah, or like this does nothing to enhance the world, myself, my family, or the world, like, or my life. Like, I'm going to say no.

If I don't have, I always say, like, I have capacity for a certain amount right now and my kids fill a huge buck of that and my business fills some and my husband. And like, you have a little bit of capacity left. Yep. And you have to figure out where you want to deploy that. And that's the season that I'm in. I'm a greed, too much. Some friends don't understand that.

And they fall off. They don't understand how, and some of them don't have kids. don't understand having, you know, three kids under six. And I empathize with that. But you only have a little bit of capacity left and you have to be strategic with where you allocate that. So true. Emma Greed came on and gave us some good advice. And she was basically talking about this and around guilt. And the way she describes is like she loves her work and loves what she does. And when she talks to her children, she says, like, I love that I get to go. And she said it changed the way the kids viewed her. Because before it was like, oh, I got to go to work. And it's this thing. And to

your point, if you hate it, then your kids look at it like, why are you going to do something? You You're choosing something you hate over me. Yes. But if they're like, hey, I love it and this is a thing I get to go do and I'm passionate about the kids. Like, oh, great, go have fun. Emma's incredible, by the way. I mean, she definitely has more hours in the day than I do. I don't, I mean, I don't know how she does at all. She's amazing. But I agree. And, you know, I love that you grew up with a mother that that was working. And I think for me, I'm very proud that I can talk to my children about what I do and how I contribute to the world outside of,

outside of their lives. But, you know, it's like every different strokes for different folks. I judge no one. It's just this is where I am now. But remember, I took a, I stepped away from CEO. I hired a CEO for you to talk about that. Before, before that, I just want to tell you, though, real quick, like, if it means something like for your boys, I think later in life, they will appreciate what you do.

Oh, yeah. And it'll change their dynamic with strong women. Yes. Because, and I'll speak more specifically. A lot of men, and I could say this is I'm a man, a lot of men get really threatened by strong women, big personalities and strong viewpoints. Yes. Some men get even more threatened by women that maybe the breadwinners or make a big living. I think for your boys, they're not going to experience that dynamic and they're going to be okay.

Right. Because the reality is a lot of young men are going to enter the workforce. And if you can just look at the date, a lot of women are doing better financially and are starting to do more. And a lot of guys are struggling with that. I think it's actually part of like some of the imbalance in the dating world, which you probably know more about. For sure. For your boys, like, I think the example will be good. And later, as they get around more women that are of strong, like they'll be more comfortable with that. No, absolutely. And I'm fortunate that I married someone with that mindset. So it's actually kind of a crazy story. So in college, my mentor was this woman

who was my professor. She was the most bad. woman I had ever met my life. Like I was both scared of her and in awe of her and just enamored by her. And she just took, you know, no crap from anyone. She was strong. She was self-assured. She was confident. She was brilliant. She was amazing. And I had this insane phobia of public speaking. Like, I would never in my life have been able to do this. And one day, all of a sudden, it turns out that her class is judged on the ability to present in front of the class. that's how you get your grade. So I went and got a doctor's note, obviously.

And I was like, no. Like, I can't. I'm too scared. I have a phobia. I have a clinical reason not to. She ripped it up and she was like, oh, girlfriend, no, no, you're going to do this. You're going to be fine. Fast forward.

Turns out she's now my mother-in-law. No way. Yep. So years later, I meet her son, who's been raised by the, this unbelievable woman. And he invites me to dinner, to a group dinner. I walk in. She's across the table.

I look at him. I go, why has Professor heard here? That's my mom. And she goes, Whitney Wolf with the good eyebrows. And I was like, oh my God, but what is happening right now? So that is the grandmother to my babies. Oh my God, that gave me chills. Yeah, she's like the most powerful, badass, cool.

Did you pass the class? Yeah, but Michael, so my mother-in-law is a gay woman. And so Michael always teases me that she gave every blonde an A. And I was like, you know what? She did say you had good eyebrows. She did say I had good eyebrows. So no, but she said I deserved it. I deserved the egg.

So she's amazing. She's maybe the coolest person I've ever met in my life. And I just, you know, to have such a force of nature like that in my life is this person that's now the grandmother to my life. my children is such a gift and I had no idea she even had a son. So it was kind of amazing. But to your point, like he was raised by that. So he respects me. He respects strong women. The more powerful I become, the more he, he admires me. And that was never the case I ever saw with men prior. Like any sense of power or any sense of strength was such a, like a threat to them.

And obviously it's, you know, it's not, that's not great. I would go as far to say it's a turnoff. Yes. I remember before Michael, I never got approached by anyone. We both have Michaels, by the way. We both have Michael. Well, I think what the turnoff is for anyone, this is men and women in any dynamic, is insecurity.

Yeah. We are inherently, anybody is turned off by insecurity. Yep. But here's the thing that's funny is I'm intense and I'm strong and I love to like come in to my office and like lay it down. But at home I'm soft and feminine and a homemaker and I love being a wife and like I'm very like very in my feminine. So I think you can have both. It doesn't have to be like one or the other. I cannot agree more. I'm the same way. I know I can tell with you're saying a barbara house. I'm like super cozy mommy mode at home. It's gorgeous. Where did I

see that? Maybe Arc Digit. We just sold it. Where did I see that though? You've seen it because somebody else bought it and it's on the internet now. Okay. Is that where I saw it? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. probably. Okay, it's a beautiful house. It was such a special place. Is that where you're going through every detail? Is that like, are we like doing the baseboards and like, oh no, not there. That was a, like a super vintage hacienda from like the 1800s. It was extraordinary, super spiritual. It was a chapter. It was a chapter. It was too slow there? We just, we, we chose, you know, I married to Texan. And there, it just, we needed to choose where to anchor and we chose that that was not our base. I love it there. I love my friends there. I met the most yummy.

amazing humans that will be like lifelong people. But it was a chapter. It was a season. And I think life, you know, we have these little seasons. Is your husband going nuts over there? No, but no, he was actually having a lot of fun. You mentioned your morning routine when you were grinding, which is you're waking up at 3 a.m. You're breastfeeding. You're staring at the monitor, etc., etc. What does your morning now look like when you feel anchored when you're tuning into your soul and not your ego now? So I really, really, really try. I've fallen off the wagon a little bit. Not to lie, you know, obviously we all go through these ups and downs.

When I'm in my best routine, I am waking up at 5.30, saying my morning, mantras, prayers, my meditation. I really like to start the day by, and not like in a, you know, religious capacity, but like, dear universe and then I pray for others. Like the first thing I do is like pray for the people I know that are going through something hard. You know, if someone's struggling with something with health or someone's in it, I just wake up and just really say prayers for people to heal. And I just wish well on people. It's the first thing I do in the morning.

It's a great way to wake up. And I just feel like it just gives this energy to the day that is like genuinely rooted in. positive intention. And then I pray for the protection of my loved ones and I give thanks to the universe. Like, just thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for every little thing I have. And so I just say these silent kind of mantras and prayers in my head and try to be still. And if I'm really good, I'll do TM. Bob Roth will be mad at me because I was in such a rhythm where I was doing it twice a day every day and I was like on another planet of tapped in. But I have fallen off the wagon there a little And then, you know, I have a brand new baby.

So I like to get up and go, like, smush her face. She's so delicious. And then it's like the day goes. But I'm kind of like you, when I get into my routine, I'm, like, obsessed with the sauna, obsessed with the red light. Have you ever tried the immortal bed? No, what's that? Is that the one that's got the, like, it's like, it's a glass and it, like sits? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it looks like it's going to mash you in. Yeah, they have it in Aspen. I just go use it at the place. I know what you're talking about. It's got the sounds. Yeah, it's cool. So, like, I'm doing all these things. I ordered your thing that you,

promoted the shift wave thing. Like, I'm trying to do all this stuff. I have the power plate, you know, that shaky thing. I don't know if that works. Oh, she's in there. Do all the skin stuff. You should see me. I'm listening to affirmations on the plate, brushing my teeth, doing posture exercise,

looking outside, trying to get you. Because I thought we have to do as a mom. Yeah, you have to. Lauren's the final boss of like the morning routines on Instagram. I might be the mob boss. I know. This is you, mom boss. I think I might be the mob boss of this.

Honestly, I get 40 things done at once. I love that about you. Yeah. Like I will. My husband always teases because, and I learned about him through one of my dear friends, Sarah Blakely, who, if you haven't had her on, you've got it. We've got her husband on. But we're not her yet, but I'd love to have Sarah. Sarah, come on the show. Sarah's spectacular. That's another person. Oh, my God. There's three people you've recommended. She turned me on to Wayne Dyer, who I'm now, like, obsessed with. You and I are on the same thing. Are you doing Wayne Dyer? That is so weird. It's really, yeah. Oh, I'm like, all about Wayne Dyer.

That's like a very, like, niche vintage. It's very vintage, woo-woo. You know what you got to be careful because, listen, you're a public CEO and that's fine and this show sometimes they'll come in and say this shows this getting a little woo-woo that's what I am lu-woo and don't you forget it you know what my woo-woo made it all happen yes got energy is why things move in the direction they move with me lecture or his book anything wayne dyer I've listened to it you that is so weird Sarah Blakely got me turned on to it and look what she's built she's the queen of entrepreneurship anyone wants to start turn on a little more Wayne dire okay I do every morning Are you not listening? I love it.

Oh, because you hear it. No, because you hear it. No, no. Excuse is gone. That's the one I'm on right now. That's a good one. But the one before was the power lecture maybe. He is so good.

I love him. Woo. I mean, I don't know anything about him because I think he like predates us a little bit. But whatever I do know is just what I've listened to and I think he's amazing. I'm assuming you've listened to Louise Hay. Yeah, love Louise Hay. Got super deep on the telepathy tapes. I haven't heard about that.

What's that? Oh, my God. Oh my God. What is happening? Okay, okay, start them immediately. Like, like run. Okay, and then you need to have Kai Dickens on your show. Who's that? She did the telep—okay, just—you and I are going to woo-boo for an hour. But then the funny thing about me— You want to be a guest booker? Yeah, yeah, I'll do it. That's perfect. The funny thing, though, is, like, I can go all down this rabbit hole. Like, you want to go near-death experiences. I've read 100 books on it. But then you want to—

Right near-death experience books. I don't know. I got fascinated with it. And then if you want to talk business, I've read every, I mean, I actually was never a big business book reader. Which ones do you think are worth reading? Because like, here's the thing. I think same as you.

I kind of stopped reading them. Yeah. Because they kind of be. They all say the same thing in a different format. And I'm also like, I don't want to be you as a leader. Like, I don't want to be you. Like, I want to be me. I just need tools to be a better version of me.

So which do you like? Well, I think there's some iconic ones that like everyone should. read. My mind is blanking right now on my favorite one, but like there's a couple just basics that everyone should read, like Made in America, Sam Walton. Great book. Everyone should read that book. That's really more of a biography, though. Right, but in my mind, it, understanding the human and the way someone moves through the world, that's my version of a business book. Like, I have zero interest in reading, like, how to scale your business from A to Z. Like, I'm just like, I, I, I'm good. Yeah, I'm like, I'm good. I know how to say.

scale. So. You're good. I'm good. You could write all the books together. No, but, but like, that's just not what I'm going to. I'm good. I know how to scale. Wait, so you'll, so you'll go down rabbit holes when it comes to reading and you'll, oh yeah, I'll go down like physics, rabbit holes, philosophy rabbit holes, like went full obsessed on philosophy. Are you reading Wayne or are you listening to Wayne? Oh, I like to listen to Wayne. So do I. I like his voice. Yes, so do I. Let me ask you this. Oh my God. That's so weird. This is a little bit of a gear shift.

When you have the success that you've had and the headlines that you get, how are you then after that able to decipher who's coming around you for the right reasons and who's looking for an opportunity? I don't hang out with anybody. What about your mom's friends? Okay, all my best friends I've either known, okay, my best best friends I've either known since my dearest friend in the world is my best friend from summer. Camp and we're 11.

Amazing. Okay. So she's my number one. She actually has an incredible jewelry brand. Her name is Jesse Lazowski, Marlowe Lazz. If you haven't seen her stuff, it's to die for. She's so amazing. She's incredible.

And then my other best girlfriends are like just true blue mom friends or my best college girlfriends. I hang out with, I have like a pack of 10 people that are my ride or dies. And then I just have like wholesome, cozy family friends that like my husband and I are friends with the mom and the. the dad and we're friends with the kids. Like, I kind of keep to myself. Well, you're busy. Do you think it's harder to make good new friends because of the profile? Or do you think? No, I'm super not like that. Like, I don't really care. If someone wants to be friends with me because of Bumble and they're cool and

funny, I'm like, God bless. Like, well, let's go. Like, I mean, as long as they're fun, like, I'm in that stage of life where I'm like, if your vibe is hilarious, cool, connected, fun, like, use me if you want to. But I must listen to Wayne Dyer. Must listen to Wayne Dyer. But I'm just not like that. I'm like pretty chill. I'm not really guarded.

I don't really think I'm anything special if that makes sense. Like I have a lot of friends that have started businesses and they like roll with security and they like super like important like sunglasses in a lot of places. And I'm like, I'll just roll through the pharmacy or the grocery store. I'm like, no one knows who I am. No one gets a shit. Like not one person cares of. surprises me that people don't come up to you all the time.

They do, but not in like a, not in like the way you would expect. They come up to me and they're like, this is my bumble baby. That's cool. And I'm like, I love you. That is so cool. You know what I'm hearing throughout this interview is you've really mastered the science of achievement and the art of fulfillment. Because with the art of fulfillment, you get the, you get helping people fall in love,

which what's better than that? And you're a bumble baby. I mean, that's very fulfilling. but you also have the science of achievement with your career. It's so fruitful. You've really got them both. I never thought about it that way. But I think you do too.

I do feel that I have that because the podcast is to me as fulfillment. It is. It's a little different. It's amazing. And by the way, you've changed my life with the mouth tape. So let's just put it out there. Well, we're, that's. You hear that?

Yep. No, no. And the eyebrow oil. Where we get personally the most excited and fired up is like when people will come up and say some area of their life was change for the better based on something they saw or heard. That's all that matters. A bumble baby. You know what?

I will tell you the thing that does keep me going because let's just be real, like work gets worky. It gets worky sometimes. It's the success stories. It's the people that tell me, I mean, you can't even imagine the stories I've heard. It's the stories of people who have come back from grief, met the loves of their lives, have multiple kids, never thought they would ever meet anyone, now they're thriving. Crazy story, actually. When I had Bobby my first son here in Austin, delivered him in Austin, I got super, super

scary postpartum preeclampsia, ended up back in the hospital. And they were like, touch and go, God knows what's going to happen. It was quite scary. And this nurse came into my room. And she kind of felt like an angel, but she was real, I've confirmed. And she told me that she, and by the first. By the way, if anyone can find this nurse, I want to speak to her. So if anybody can locate this person, please bring her my way.

But she told me that she had to break HIPPA and come talk to me because she heard them talking about me at the nurses station. Bumble Girl, I probably sent like cookies or something, you know, like I was always doing something for the nurse station. She said, I had to come talk to you because, and she grabbed my hand. She goes, I was in an abuse of marriage for decades. And I read about you. And I read about Bumble. And I read about why you started Bumble. And so I got the courage to leave my husband.

And when I got back on my own two feet and felt strength again, I downloaded Bumble. And I have never in my life met anyone with his name before. And I had to come talk to you because he's my fiancine now and he's the love of my life. And when you go back to the hospital with a motherhood, like a newborn mother-related illness, they actually take you back to labor and delivery. They don't put you in normal ER or ICU. They take you to labor and delivery and monitor you there for infection, reduction, all that. So I was back in labor and delivery, and you remember having your babies, they write mommy's name and baby's name out on the door.

And she said, his name is Bobby Lee. And that's my son's name because we named him after my husband's grandfather. So I was like, okay, if that's not a testament to keep going and just like, you just got to keep on going when work gets hard. That's a sign. That's a sign. Read the book signs. I cannot wait to read. That is a huge sign. Speaking of Bumble, I think we'd be remiss. What is going on from your perspective, reading the data, running a dating company? What is going on in the dating world? A lot of you read the headlines. There's a lot of doom and gloom. A lot of people saying they're giving up younger people, not getting into intimate relationships. Guys getting a little too swipy swipe. I mentioned on a show that people are concerned about people procreating are not having as many babies in that society is. is going to be crumbled because we're not procrating.

What are you seeing and what is the data show from your perspective? The demand is 100% still there. People want love and connection. That has not left the building. It just has not. I think the way in which they're able to find love and connection is not serving them in a way that it used to. I think the swipe has, and I admit to this, I'm super self-aware and we're reinventing ourselves and we're building new features and functionalities. I think this like mass availability

of mass people at all times at the tip of your fingers, it has burnt people out. And it has gone from being what it was meant to be, a dating app, which would insinuate what gets you on good dates, right? And then if the date goes well, hopefully it turns into a relationship or something fruitful. Right now we're calling ourselves the love company because loved. doesn't have to be marriage and babies, but we want to put more love into the world, and we want to bring people together face to face in the real world. And so what we are doing right now is to meet the demand of people wanting to meet. They're desperate to meet. They're doing anything. I mean, they're literally setting up these little clubs in their area and trying to meet people

through anything. Like, they're willing to go back to church when they're not even religious because they want to meet people. That is the craving of the fabric of society right now. It's like People want to meet people, but they don't know how because of a few things. Thing one, social media has completely desensitized everyone and disconnected us. We are living through these like alternate realities of what's real. Dating apps probably have played a role in this too because we were meant to be a dating app, but it turned into just this like swipe, swipe app where like you were just swiped into the abyss, right?

Or maybe you got all these matches and they just never went anywhere. dead end chats and ghosting and all of this heavy like rejection layered with judgment and it just kind of taxed people. And so I see it as my duty and this is part of why I am back is I'm a problem solver and I'm certainly not going to leave the industry in the state that it's in right now, which is not in a bad place. It's just in a moment where it needs evolution. It does. It's not bad. It's It's not broken. It's not dead. I mean, I think Wall Street and the media are being super overreactive and way more pessimistic than they need to be. Partly, that's kind of the role they play in the world. So where I think things go from here is I think we're at the most interesting intersection I have personally ever arrived at in my career, which is where AI can just supercharge human connection. So we are absolutely going to transform the way people meet.

We are leaning into bringing people together through groups, through events, through in the real world. So my big vision for Bumble is in five years from now, every single person can meet someone through Bumble, not on Bumble. Maybe that's at a Bumble event. Maybe that's in a group. Maybe that's through a group date that you went on. A girlfriend of mine was telling me last night, she's dating someone right now that. that she met on Bumble. And I was like, oh, my God, like, where'd you meet and where'd you match?

She goes, well, I didn't. She said, I matched with this friend. And I went on a date with his friend and his friend brought him. But we clicked. Me and my match didn't click. And my match realized that me and the friend clicked and was like, you two have something going on here. Now they're dating.

So I believe that success in numbers is the next frontier. And so we're really focused on building capabilities that are AI powered. So it will be like as seamless and as efficient and as non-exhaustive as possible to get you on our products, BFF, which is doing very well with Gen Z in particular, and Bumble Date to then get you offline to a safe meetup as quickly as possible. We just want to bring people together in the real world and tell me what is more powerful in this era of AI where we are really replacing everything and automating everything? than human connection. It's funny, like we're doing, and Carson knows this as a company,

like there's a digital company. We produce a lot of digital content. But we're doing, this year, we're doing the first one in May and we're doing another one later. We're going to announce really up. But we're bringing people offline,

or like offline together because I think it's so important. The company's like, why doesn't your media partner with Bumble? Yeah, let's do it together. Yes, you should do something done. But to your point, I see what's happening here

and I'm like, every time we do these events and I see everyone there and there's a happy hour and they're talking and they're connecting like that's the digital content

should be a reinforcement and a tool to help you interact in the real world. Amen, my friend. Right? Not like you shouldn't live

in a bubble online. No. They weren't designed that way. It's, it's, you know, I got a lot of, and I'm sure you dealt with this too.

When COVID happened, everybody went remote. And slowly, but surely I've been kind of enforcing and making people get back in person. And like, listen, people kick and scream about that.

I want the flexibility. It's like, no, I want people to connect in life with each other. That's why you end up caring about something. It's why you end up caring about people, like staring at a screen. Remember when we were doing those happy hours on the screen on the Zoom? One of the most depressing times in my life is sitting there having a whiskey looking at a bunch of screen.

I won't get on a video Zoom. I can't even think about that. Would you remember? I get on video Zoom. I won't do it. I'm not going to stare at a screen. The Zoom happy hour had to be one of the most depressing times in human history. We're all sitting alone in your house, drinking, looking at.

each other on a on a I completely agree I think it like reminding people that like hey we're designed for connection and to be around we are right like and you can use a tool we are better together we are better together it's genius though to use AI as the tool that it is to then get the connection which is the meat of what is needed so let's talk about the other reasons you decided to come back you left you stepped down a CEO you brought in another CEO yeah and you Was it you wanted to... I mean, do you want the real reason? Were you sitting around wondering...

You're not going to believe the real reason, though. It's a little woo-woo. No one knows this story. This is a show to do it on. Go ahead. Hey, you want the real reason? I came back. What's the story? Okay, so here's the real deal. I was very happy and I did not want to be a CEO again.

I was loving, I was living in La Vita Loka. Okay? I was having a great time. However, I am... I'm an entrepreneur. I don't know what to tell you. I mean, listen, if someone's a painter, just because they get tired, doesn't mean they're like never going to paint again. This is who I am.

I need to build. I need to solve problems. I need to create. I need to put things into the world. It is who I am. However, swear on my life, I had no intention of going back to Bumble. And I love, love, love the woman that was our CEO for a year. I think she's brilliant, remarkable.

She, for her own reasons, like nothing bad, like nothing weird, truly, decided it was her time to go. And she was like, I'm just like, this isn't right for me right now, whatever. And I think she's brilliant. There was no falling out. We keep in touch. I think she's lovely. But I was like, okay, well, I mean, I'm not the same. I don't think I can go and do this again.

Like I don't know if I can just like go back. This isn't really what I wanted for my life right now. I had kind of like had this itch to start something new. I was like thinking of new companies and new products. But the weirdest thing happened about a week before she let me know was I had this like crazy download, which was that my purpose on earth was basically to help people find love. So I was off trying to find other ways to do it. I was like, oh, well, I started a company for this or a company for that.

Like I was thinking of all these other businesses. And I just kind of, when she decided it was like the right moment for her to move on to her next thing, I felt like the universe was pulling me and just doing it for me. You started this conversation off by saying things don't happen to you. They happen for you. And I was like, this is clearly happening for me, but I wasn't convinced. So before I agreed to like really go all back in, I did what any really, really smart sane business person does. and I called my psychic medium. You got to text me that.

Laura Lynn Jackson. Laurelind Jackson, okay. And you know what's funny, I have like a crazy network of brilliant business people. But before I texted them, I was like, she's my, she might go do. I got to call her. I get it. So I was like, I was like, Laura Lynn, here's the deal. Like what am I meant to do?

I'm like having so much fun. I'm like starting these new companies. They're going to be billion dollar businesses and da-da-da-da. and I'm like loving life with my husband and my kids and like, you know, doing my thing. And she goes, okay, I'm getting a message from your, you know, like past one, like someone that I love that had passed. She's like, he's telling me to look on the back of your husband's belt. And I'm like, okay, I got, I got to go.

Like, I'm going to call CEO. Like, I can't do this. This is getting too weird. She's like, no, like, I'm being shown. this like belt buckle like a silver belt buckle with a bunch of like a like a like a scene there's like a scene on the front of this belt buckle and I'm like huh like oh I actually know what she's talking about like a rodeo belt buckle I'm like oh my god it's my husband's like Texas rodeo belt buckle so my husband does this like iconic like boys trip rancher like cowboy thing and whoever wins this like championship thing

they put on gets this like belt buckle. I was like, I think I know what she's talking about. She goes, okay, I'm getting this persistent message. You've got to go look on the back of the belt buckle. The message is on the back of the butt. You're going to know what to do. If you're going back a CEO or not, I'm not going to tell you the answer. Go get the belt buckle and look on the back of the belt buckle and whatever is there is your answer and you will know right away. And I was like, okay, I think I think I need to like take it down. Like we're going to, we're going I like move on. So I get home and I kind of forget about it. And then it hits me and I'm like, Michael, where's your belt buckle? And he's like, my what? I'm like, where's the big belt buckle?

The silver belt buckle. And he's like, oh, in the room. I'm like, go get it. So he gets this belt buckle and he brings it back. And it is in fact the big silver belt buckle with the Texas scene on it. And we turn it over and inscribed in the back of the belt buckle, every single word is the man in the arena by Theodore Roosevelt. am. My favorite quote. It is how I've like measured my career being like just be in the arena. Like every day you got to get out there even if you get marred. Even if you're like muddied and covered in blood, like at least you're not in the nosebleeds. At least you're in that arena. And I was like, I'm going back. 91% of dog parents say their pup is an important member of the family.

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that feels intentional. And I wanted the ice roller to feel evolved. It's changed. You've changed. So yes, the new gorgeous, stunning, beautiful ice roller is still going to do the same things. It reduces puffiness and redness in your face. I used it this morning before I put on my makeup, it definitely helps with the under eye bags. Of course, it helps boost circulation and radiance. I just feel like it really helps stimulate blood flow and gives me that tighter, more radiant skin. And then it also is known to give you a smoother, tighter looking skin. So what I like to do is I like to combine facial massage with cold therapy. And this really helps give you a really nice foundation before you even apply your skincare. This ice roller for me is a full

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skin care and the makeup. Don't skip the cold therapy. The new ice roller is an upgrade designed to meet the standards of today. And I hope you guys love it as much as I do. This is the beauty tool that started at all. designed to evolve with you. I'm showing it on YouTube too if you're on YouTube if you're seeing me visually. Get it why it's hot at shop skinny confidential.com. That's shop skinny confidential.com. We prep for all these shows. Yeah. And one of the things I said to the team, I was like, I guarantee you the reason this person goes back is because they are not built to sit on the sidelines and relax. It's just not possible. Bingo. You can't, you can't build the way you have and then be as productive as you've been and then one day, like, be unproductive.

Right? And a lot of people, like, their ambition is to one day, like, take a ease and relax, and that's fine and eat to each their own. But I think for someone like yourself who is a builder and a creator and you're not wired to sit like that. Actually, like, I think that would make you more anxious and more stress and cause a lot of actual unhappiness in your life to just sit around. 100%. No, like, I am meant to change things in the world that I do not like or cause people harm or stress or make improvements. Like, I like to improve things. And now we get you in Austin. Oh, yeah. Before you go, you have to tell me how you manage your time. What gets your time and attention? Why did you come on this show? What is worthy of your time? Because you are. I love you.

Oh, no. Not you. Just me. You too. No, I love you too. But I, okay, I just really, I vibe with you. Like, I'm very, let me tell you what I like about you so much. Here's that's the question. thing I love about you so much. Are you guys, are you guys having a moment? Yeah, we're having a moment. I love that you are multifaceted and unapologetic about it. I find that a lot of women that have found a lot of success or are really like career oriented have a hard time being vulnerable about the other components of their life.

Like if they're like a strong business woman, like they're a strong business woman. And that's the only side you're ever going to see. And it's like almost like just this like shell. that you'll never see beyond it or behind it. And that's just, we're made up of a lot of parts. All of us are. We're multifaceted. And so I love that you are unapologetic about being like a nurturing, loving mom, being

cozy and like making a home and making it feel special. But then like being a total boss at work and like having these different sides of you. And I don't, I don't personally know so, so many people like that. And I don't know. I just, I like, I like you. I think you're cool. I think you're really cool too. And I love your show. And I think you have honest, open, vulnerable conversations. And frankly, that's where I'm at my life. Like, I just want to be real

and open and I have nothing to hide. And I just think more authenticity is better for the world. I will take that coming from the world's youngest female billionaire. Is that the right? Is that the right? I don't think I am now. There's like all sorts of other ones. I mean, I'll take it. I mean, listen. I better get some good compliments from There's so many other younger, cooler women than me. When you're not here and we're going, we'll list the accolades. I do want to know, though. I do have to just know, like, this is a selfish question that I would ask you off air. Is the calendar crazy?

Are you a psycho? Is it color-coded? What's your time? I just want to know, like, I just want to know. Oh, everyone has color. Everyone has a color. Okay. And is it like, how long is a meeting?

Like, are you someone who's like, get the fucking meeting in seven minutes? You know what I've started doing? What? Don't tell anyone. It's fine. Only a few people listening. So you want a hack? Yeah.

Efficiency hack. So when I was on Mat leave, I just had my baby, you know, a few months ago. By the way, I did do a natural birth, which was crazy. Yeah, you've got to tell us about that before you go. I mean, I'm like, if I ever have another kid, I'm getting an epidural right when I get to the hospital. Oh, so I think you're going to say you're going to do a natural birth again. Oh, no, one is good. Okay.

I'm glad I did. Okay. All of that to say, when I was on Mat leave, I had, you know, I was trying really hard to, at least for the for several weeks be like very present with my children. I understand this so much. But I really couldn't just like disappear. Clearly not. I'm the CEO of the company and I'm like in the middle building a lot of stuff and I care and I want to make it right. So I would ask people to record videos for me of what they take me through a meeting, but just record it. Send it to me. And then I would listen to it at like 2.5x. So my husband one day walked into the kitchen and there was like,

He was like, what the, what is that? I'm like, oh, I'm hearing an update on something that they're working on. And he's like, how do you even hear that? So I've trained myself to listen to things at like the maximum speed. And so then I could get through like 15 updates. And these videos were like 15 minutes long, 22 minutes long, 46 minutes long. And I was just plowing through them. And I was taking notes and like da-da-da-da.

So I don't know. I just make it work. I will tell you something. It takes a lot to get my husband interested in someone. I can tell you after this episode, he wants to hang out with you. She's very interesting. He loves interesting people. If you weren't, I would have cut the show by about 40 minutes.

Sometimes I'll look over it. His eyes are glazing over his head. Are you bored? No, no. No, no. He puts his note cards like this. Go watch it, guys. That's a hack.

But you are. I'm going to get my tells away. She's very, very, very interesting. I mean you're you're you talk to said I'm multifaceted you really it's an octopus I like multifaceted my sign is a pink octopus we'll talk about that later lord knows this I like multi-faceted strong women with big personalities like there's no like I'm not shy about it you're kind of picky with your woman friends and that's why I'm like it's interesting to interview you because I know the kind of girl he likes is like as a friend and you guys yeah but I like it's funny I just told you this morning I was like God but Some of your friends are so surface level. To your point about Lauren, it's like for me, like, yes, she's beautiful and all of those things. There's an attraction.

She's brilliant. What people, like what's kept me interested since the beginning and so long is it is that like we can laugh. She can do work. She could be serious. And then like she can also, you know, be self-deprecating. So like sometimes people see our banjoining. What's going on here? And I think it's the people that want to always, they want to present in a certain way.

and they want to show. Like, you know what it is? The people that get uncomfortable with this kind of dynamic, it's the ones that are posting pictures of themselves skipping on the beach with their significant other and hugging under the sunset.

The image. Yeah. You're doing that. Red flag. Yeah. The image. It's like all about the image. It's that.

Everyone's going to know about the question cards now. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Sometimes I look, well, listen, life is messy. People are messy. And sometimes the people that have it the most together

also have a lot of other terrible things going on. I think we like to have that dynamic. That hack is that hack to do a meeting and speed it up is genius. No, it's honestly. Do you do it still? Oh, it's such a good efficiency hack. I didn't even, I never even meant to do it. It's just when I was on Mat leave, I couldn't do zooms all day and like I'm so sick of these zooms.

What I do in my meetings is I make Carson talk at 3x speed. No, you don't. He has to get all his thoughts on three. 15 seconds. Yeah, he has to get it all out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. The entire company has to speed talk. I will tell you that this interview was worth waiting 10 years for.

I also think, and I don't know how you do this, Michael, that this should be like the beginning. We're rebranding to the Bostics. This to me is like the conversations that I'm excited about having. Yeah, well, you'll come back on. You're right next door now. You're welcome. The only other thing I want to tell you all that I really think is game changing. Yes.

Is I don't know if you've done any of this yet, but I've taught myself how to build stuff on AI. So I'm like, I'm like a vibe coder now. No way. What do you mean you've taught yourself how to build? So, like, if I have an idea, and this is cool for you to keep in mind, if I have a concept, I used to have to sit down with my product team, pitch it to them, hope and pray that they understood what I was saying. Then get a designer to like mock it up, wireframe it. Okay, that would take six weeks. And then we'd have to put it through like this, that, this, that.

And it's like, all the good ideas went to die. It was like a dungeon of good idea death. And so now I just tell my little digital technical friend. And which platform are you using? I like Claude. Okay, you like Claude. I like Claude. I've been playing on perplexity computer a little bit.

Have you tried that? I've tried Claude. I've not tried perplexity yet. Okay. So Claude is my bud. And I basically had Claude, I said, turn into my technical co-founder in life. And just pretend you're my technical co-founder. So your job is to bring my visions to life.

but make them smarter, better, pressure test them against these investors and these minds, and make sure, like, build like a bench, like a, like, go and test it against an advisory board, poke holes in it, bring it back to me in a better way, let me review it, and then I want you to design it as if Johnny Ive and Steve Jobs got together with the designers of Arames. and I like give it the most absurd prompts you've ever heard. You're only on ChachyPT. You got to get, I've been telling you about this. Well, I like Chachy BT.

I love Chachy Btie. Chachy Bt. It's a little bit like patchy on the back. Everything you're doing is right, you know? Well, I told it not to do that. Yeah, you have to go. I went into settings. I was like, be mean to me.

I'm all, enough about me. What do you think about me? It's all fucked up. Okay, so I'm going to go. Maybe I'll get into vibe coding. You need to, okay. You need to start vibe coding and we'll show each other our vibe code ideas because if you have like a concept, so I've had like a few ideas that I really want to build. So I'll build them. I'll make mockups. And then I started a thread at Bumble last week, which is like Bumble build ideas or something. I can't remember what we called it. And I've asked the whole company to do it. So I'm like if you have an idea, just vibe code it and maybe we'll build it for real. People are very concerned about jobs obviously. What do you? What do you? What's the no part? They're upside down. But he's still talking. What do you think from what you're seeing from a personnel perspective, are you thinking AI, especially I guess, you know, with tech, are you thinking this is going to replace a lot of people or is it going to evolve?

It will replace people that don't know how to operate, drive, command, and control AI. If you don't know how to be the boss of AI and direct AI and control AI and build and scale agents and mobilize the agents and run it like in agents, if you can't run a team of agents, you probably won't be able to run a team at the best companies in a year from now. That's interesting. So you have to be able to command. That's interesting. And you can go practice that.

But here's the thing. Anyone can do it. You know, like I think people are so scared about this. But, you know, at one point we were, like, technology always changes and always involves. And I mean, at one point, we were literally plowing fields with horses in our hands. And we don't do that anymore. And so, right.

Right. Like, I think this idea, like, of course, it will, 100% displace and replace people that do not evolve with the times. But the whole idea is that you evolve. If you're if you're doing something that AI can do much faster, more efficiently, easier without the cost. Yeah, you should probably start figuring out like how to evolve. Absolutely. Shouldn't just sit there and be like, I hope it doesn't happen. It's going to happen. And I think it makes you more creative if you know how to, if you know how to lean into it. In person is going to be even more important in a more digital world where this, with all this,

like people are going to crave in my opinion. You cannot replace. human connection. As much as even this is too much information. They're like, what happens if the sex robot comes? I don't know if I want to be sitting with a sex robot all the time.

Are you going to fuck a sex robot? Well, do you consider it cheating? Yes. Are you kidding? Do you even have to ask that? Then no. Okay.

If I walk in and you're fucking a sex robot, I know. Well, listen, but at one point, these robots, I'm good. I'm on bubble. Here's what I'm saying. Even if the robot is the

most attractive robot ever. What's going to happen is at some point, deep down, you're going to sit there and be like, I am hooking up with a robot. No, the humans were made for each other. Like, you're going to have to look yourself in the mirror. Well, I'm really into grounding, and so I don't feel like a fake penis would do it for me. I like to ground with the frequency. No, but you know, we had Gary, like, Gary V's a friend and he was on his like, people will be,

he thinks that people will marry AI bots in the future. I think that the most valuable thing five years from now is human to human connection. Agreed. I agree. Which is why I think I'm in the best business and I think y'all are in a really good business too. I would agree with that. Bumble is partnering with leading happiness expert who has been on the show, author and professor Arthur, Arthur. Oh, we've been on. Yeah. Arthur's been on the show. We love Arthur. That's what I just said. And so how do everyone sign up for Bumble BFF and Bumble and where can they find you to say hi? Find me to say hi? Maybe they want to follow. Oh, I'm starting a group on Bumble BFF today actually. That's cute. Yes. You should start one too. Wait, so what do I do? So I'll show you how.

But I'm going to start a group where I'm just going to, like, chat with any women that want to join my group and ask me direct questions or kind of get mentored or anything like that. And then I want to learn from them, too. I want to know, like, tell me everything going on. So, but Arthur Brooks is incredible. He understands connection better than anybody out there. I'm going to want to be desired, guys. Yeah. And you know what I love about him is he just genuinely wants to help people.

find happiness. And I believe that the way you find happiness, according to him, is right. Like, you need to have a connection with yourself, with a higher power, and with each other. And if you can do that, you're going to have a fulfilling life. Agreed. How can people sign up for Bumble? Everyone that is single, I don't care if you're 18 or 80, you should get on Bumble. We're also rolling out a brand new Bumble, like overhauled, meticulous redesign this summer. So stay tuned. So many new features. are coming, I am going to make this the dating app that women have been waiting for. I am going to fix women's dating problems. Again and again and again and again. I'm going to keep going and then just download BFF. You can find girlfriends in your area, groups to go do things.

There's like groups for everything under the sun, from book clubs to makeup to anything you can imagine. You don't need to be lonely. Wherever you are, wherever you're listening from, BFF is there for finding your people platonically and Bumble is there to find your love. We need a Whitney book club on Bumble BFF. Let's do it. Let's do a woo-woo club. You and I will start one. I'm in.