The Smark Avengers - Darkseid vs Joker?! Building DC’s Ultimate Villain Team | DC vs Marvel Tournament Pt 4

Episode Date: October 24, 2025

💥 It’s time to build the ultimate DC villain lineup! 💥In this episode of The Smark Avengers, Corey, Dylan, and Jon continue their DC vs Marvel Ultimate Tournament by drafting the 16 most powerful, cunning, and downright evil villains from the DC Universe. From Darkseid’s godlike power to the Joker’s chaotic madness, the guys debate who truly deserves a spot on the DC Villains roster — and who’s just comic relief. They cover fan-favorite threats like Lex Luthor, Doomsday, and Brainiac, plus debate wildcards like The Penguin, Gentleman Ghost, and Joker himself — are they real contenders or just there for laughs? ⚔️ Which DC villain could actually take down Marvel’s biggest heroes? 🔥 Who’s too dangerous to be left off the team? Grab your boom tubes and mother boxes — it’s time to go full evil. 💬 Let’s hear it from you! Who’s the most dangerous DC villain? Who would YOU pick to represent the DC Universe? Drop your dream roster in the comments! 👇 📢 Don’t forget to LIKE, COMMENT, and SUBSCRIBE for more deep dives, drafts, and debates from The Smark Avengers! Click the link for Dylan's radio show!: http://www.bouncedigitalradio.co.uk Click the link for Dylan's Twitch stream: http://Twitch.tv/spookylaroux Click the link for Jon's Letterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/bigjonbowski/ Click the link for Corey's project "Henry's Usual": https://www.tumblr.com/henrysusual Click the link for Corey's show "Large Old Cup": https://open.spotify.com/show/2YHMppnl9inQevwLIxR64f

Yeah. Have we talked about Big the Cat before? I feel like we have. Okay, cool. I have not heard of Big the Cat until this very second. Correct. The only way Corey would know of Big the Cat is if I talked about this before because Big the Cat is not a very popular Sonic the Hedgehog character.

Big the Cat was in Sonic Adventure 1, Dreamcast, and people hated. him because Sonic Adventure 1 had like, you know in Sonic Adventure 2? It was like you get to play like a shadow but also it was Rouge and Eggman. There's three different styles.

In Sonic Adventure 1 you had six different styles. So you played a Sonic and Teals and Knuckles and EME and a robot and Big the Cap. And Big the Cat's parts were you just went fishing and everybody hated Big the

cat because they hated playing a Sonic game where you had to go fishing. But I really liked it because it was a nice change of pace and Big the Cat was such a queer character and he loved his friend, Froggy, he was a frog. And then also Big the Cat is amazing like theme music, bang and theme music. Again, Sonic the Hedgehog games, they get their music right like every time. And then after that, Big the Cat didn't come back anymore because everybody hated Big the Cat. I'm devastated. He's awesome. He's just a big cat.

He's just a big cat. He's a big purple cat. He's got a fishing rod. He was in Sonic Heroes. I mean, after that, they didn't bring him back. Then it's a shame. Because he is the best. So make that the intro.

All right, everybody. Welcome to the Spark Avengers. Name is Corey. With me, Dylan, and John. We do requests now. And so that was your intro of the big cat. It's the best cat. There you go.

He's a good cat. is a good cap. All right, so here is part four of our bracket building, where parts one, two, and three, we are attempting to find the greatest, most toughest DC or Marvel character of all time, and we're putting them in quadrants based off whether or not they are a Marvel or a DC or if they're a hero or a villain.

So we've done Marvel heroes. We've done Marvel villains. We've done DC heroes. And now is our final one as we put together DC villains. We're going to go around the horn and do 21 villain names. It will pair that down to 16. And that will decide the last entry point of our bracket. And then we start to figure out what that's going to look like.

But any questions before we get started? I know last time we started with the order went John, Dylan Mead. Do we want to keep that order? Do you want to switch it up a little bit? Anything you guys want to talk about? We should reverse it. So you want to stay in the middle. Yeah.

You enjoy being the little pimento loaf. I'm the filling in the sandwich. Okay. And you guys are the bread that, like, give me a big hug. There you go. Okay. That's the thumbnail. The thumbnail is just us, just us cuddling.

Yeah. Smart Avengers do a DC villain bracket in the other than me as just us cuddling. Just us talking in the middle with a lot of empty space around it. There you go. That's good art design. There we go. So anyway, I will start us off with their number one pick, and I think you go with the B-all-Indol.

Can't be killed. Wait, wait, but-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-pah. In the last episode, we killed a lot of time at the beginning. That may or may not be either. Well, I have a feeling that this episode is going to go much smoother. Yes. Because not only did we kill a lot of time at the beginning, I killed a lot of time during the middle of the podcast.

Yes. By trying to think up characters and be looking up images of Power Girl. Yes. So I have a feeling this one's going to go much smoother. Sure. And I'm just saying, if you need to part the episode out, this might be the time. Anybody who's got anything they want to say, get off the chest, you know. if there's anybody like

in the last episode I had Morpheus and then we were like oh it's contentious because is he a hero per se or is he just like fucking guy because he wasn't really heroic I mean we could talk about it do you guys what are your feelings on the new gods I don't know because like the new gods are villains or a lot of them are villains there's a lot of them they're heroes as well no one ever really talks about the heroic new gods

They don't talk about the characters for New Genesis. So, you know, when we were going through our top, you know, our 21 picks for heroes, no one was saying like, Mr. Miracle, Big Barda, you know, Orion, Light Runner, or Lightbringer, or whatever. Or Light Ray. They weren't like, that might not be the case. There might be people who want to talk about like Darkside or Granny Goodness or Glorious Godfrey or Steppenwolf or Calabac. Yes. Glorious Godfrey? Yes. Glorious Godfrey is the Minister of Propaganda for Apocalypse.

Okay. I did not know that. Jack Kirby, man. Jack Kirby. What makes him so glory? I mean, he's the... Propagia. He's the gobles of Apocalypse, essentially. He's the minister of propaganda. He's there to present the image of Apocalypse as, you know, the one true ruling planet and dark

is. Are you looking at pictures of glorious Godfrey? Yeah, no, I was looking at something else. I'm not Power Girl. Okay. Should I be looking up pictures of Glorious Godfrey? I mean, you know, he's kind of nondescript-looking in comparison to some of the other ones. That plays to John's point in that he's not really glorious. It's more to do with the propaganda that he himself puts out. Master, manipulator with a hypnotic voice using rhetoric to control minds to prepare Earth for

Darkside's conquest. So he's the Antichrist. He shows up on a planet that Apocalypse is wanting to invade, and he basically starts to turn the minds of the occupants to accept Darkside as their ruler. Oh, so like Tucker Carlson then. Maybe. Gloria Tucker Carlson. I mean, yeah, usually he is positioned as sort of like a news anchor on Earth when they do use him in storylines.

He does sound like a villain He is a villain But like what So But like you But like other than propaganda Like what does he do Let me pull up his full range of power set

Oh he's access to the speed force He can manipulate your brainwave I mean they're new gods They very well could have a lot of that shit going on Yeah You need a whole turkey Like bones and all Just like swallow it whole you know

So he is considered immortal So he has decelerated aging persuasive mind control charisma So yeah That is his Yeah that's that's that's that's his deal Like you said there are other members of the Of Apocalypse's family He has a sister Amazing Grace

She also has mind control powers Mm-hmm convince people that her name is good again that's that's Kirby all right I'm sorry no I'm sorry amazing grace is John Byrne not Kirby

okay yeah let's we gotta get that right some of those new gods might be on the list I've a feeling some of them won't be Gloria's God free or whatever let's be honest he's not making the list we can all agree on that unless we run out

I don't think we're going to run out. Was that John's first pick? Back to the drawing board. But not anymore. It's my second pick. I mean, you also, like I said, Granny goodness doesn't sound like a lot,

but she's just a fucking little powerhouse is what she is. Yeah. So, like, you know, those characters could, I have a feeling those characters could pop up for sure. Okay.

I wasn't sure if we were going to consider them to be at the same level because, I mean, like I said, Darkside is, you know, he is essentially a god. Well, this is kind of what happened in our Marvel villains list. And obviously, if you're listening to this, you can go back and listen to the Marvel villains list for clarification. There was an awful lot of, like, is Mephesto, is Onslaught, are they too powerful? Are they not powerful enough? Are they, do they fit in with this?

Does it make sense that have too many of these characters here? I think we'll just play it by year and see what happens. Yeah, I'm looking at DarkSight's powers and he is. It's got a lot. Got a lot going for him. Yeah. And yet they beat him every time. It's one of those things where it's like you're lucky if you survive.

I would consider myself lucky. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, no. So there's those. I was trying to think there's any other kind of larger than life threats. because like I said, the new gods in the Apocalyptics are pretty much the celestials of Marvel in D.C. I mean, you could say like Ares is the god of war, but there's also Ares, the god of war in Marvel as well.

They're just a little different, but essentially the same. I mean, most of Wonder Woman's Rokes Gallery for years was the Greek Pantheon. Fucking Hera in particular had it out for her. What I will say is that I think that the reason, we didn't pick a lot of those kind of characters is that there were so many other more interesting better characters to pick. I still, yeah.

I feel like that's probably something similar. I feel like the thing I feel like, yeah, I feel like the thing that's going to be I think, and I think this is just kind of like how Marvel like Batman is probably DC's most

well-known hero. Yeah. But in the grand scale of things, Batman's villains are not heavy, you're not heavy hitters or major threats. like there's whole comics there are whole comics of nothing but like you know there was an issue of Superman where the Joker like came to

Metropolis and Superman pretty much shut Joker down immediately and he was like listen he'll put up with you in Gotham I'm not going to do that here so you're saying we shouldn't put joke on all this I'm saying that like if we're looking at if we're looking at power houses if we're looking at like people who could like win a tournament

I feel like a lot of Batman villains aren't going to cut the mustard there's a couple that will but a lot of them won't. I'm getting the vibe that you're not going to pick the Joker. I'm not going to pick a lot of Batman villains, no. There's a couple of Batman villains on the list, but Joker would not be one of them. Okay, good.

All right. Any other thoughts? Any other thoughts you want to put out there? I mean, I agree with you in terms of that, but I think that, like we said before, some of the more street-level people can still work if they're used right. Sure.

Indeed, yes. I think we can still get away with some stuff. Yeah, I would say, like, I mean, Green Goblin was, like, one of our first picks over at Marvel and in the grand scale of things. Norman Osborne's not as much a threat as some of those other characters in Marvel. Like, if you put Norman Osborne against Dr. Doom. I think you've picked a bad example.

Why? Because I think you're talking to the two people that can easily argue that Noseborg is a threat against Dr. Domew. What I'm saying is, like, if you put Dr. Doom against the Green Goblin, I feel like it's not, it's not close. If you put Green Goblin against Magneto, it's not close. Like, some other names, yes, but there's some heavy hitters there. And I would say the same thing over on the DC side. There's going to be some characters that are going to lean more favorably than others. John, how do you feel about

Corey, straight up saying both the Green Goblin and Magneto, but it's not even close against Dr. Doom? Because I feel like it's kind of close. I mean, I think he can't underestimate no Osborne he's a sneaky son of a bitch he really is I think against Dr. Doom no yeah I think so Dr. Doom fucks with devils

is it what like he fucks really never mind this is another topic for another time we'll save this for the Norman Osborne episode that we do at some point what I was going to say is we'll save this but I'm also like you don't think Norman Osborne fucks with like weird shit like that

not as much not as extensively But he, but he does. Therefore, he would have some experience in that. Therefore, he might be a good match against Dr. Noom. That's really interesting that you would say, like, that Norman Osborne would be as, like, I honestly, I,

all the people he could have picked, I'm like, Norman Osborne has a good shot against Dr. Doom. I'm not going to lie. Boy, I find that really hard to believe. I just do. Don't. And that's not, like, John, you, I assume you're going to back me up because you love Norman Osborne,

but also you know that like he has got the chops dude i mean my heart says yes my brain says no i think there's a shite i'm not saying he's gonna win i think he can stand up to dr dame cori was saying it's like a flat-eyed it's not it's like one-sided i'm like i don't think it's one-sided i think it's one-sided just based on resources alone norman osborne barely seems like he gets to keep his company half the time doom has a whole country of people who love him emphatically Norman Osborne like took over the whole Well he took over like shield he took over like he was the mayor of New York like he can do stuff

Listen New York is not the world That Barry is not the world It's a country in comparison to a city Big city a lot of people in it Apparently anyway regardless Another topic for another time Is that all getting cut out No you said you wanted padding so there we go

that was a lot of that was a lot of potty i mean we talked about the new gods we talked about the apocalyptic we talked about glorious godfrey and we talked about norman osborne so we're fair for us there you go so i'm still ready with my first pick if you guys are ready to start go for it

all right so uh it seems to me that the only right right number one pick is the only character that ever killed superman he can't kill you can't keep him dead for long. He's always going to come back and adapt and gets bigger, stronger and scarier, going Doomsday. Yep. That's a good call. Doomsday currently is, like, they're interacting with the future version of Doomsday called

the time travel, like the timekeeper. That basically is like, he has evolved to this point where he has a degree of intelligence to him now and he has like time travel abilities. Where he's like not absolutely, like he's trying to be an aide. to Superman because of Darkside and his forces invading in the future. Okay. Doesn't that seem a little bit like not what

Doom's Day was about? I mean, right now, it's more of a situation, like, kind of like the twist thing to sell how big a threat Darkside is. That's like even this future version of Doomsday is like trying to help keep the earth from being enslaved by Darkside. Why would he care?

I think it's one of those things of like he wants to be the one to kill him. Superman? Okay. I mean, it's why he's been created. He was there to basically kill and destroy anything Kryptonian. Yep.

Plus, Dark Side also, or not Darkseye, but Doomsday also had the distinction of being trapped in hell for a long time and almost becoming the ruler of hell in DC because of, yeah, demons didn't want to fuck with him. Almost? Almost. So, At May could do it, but Doomsday can't do it.

Doomsday was not interested in staying in hell. Like, that was really it, is that he kept going back to the gates and was trying to force his way back through. Okay. Plus, it's a different hell. Yeah, totally different hell. Yeah. I mean, you got... One of them is way real than the other one.

Yeah, fucking the Marvel hell seems very chill in comparison to the fact that you could just, like, get up and lose your throat. Because as we were talking about with Mepesto in the Marvel villains episode, So it was just like, yeah, he keeps losing his throne, though. It happens. Guy can't get up and get a cup of coffee without somebody trying to take the crown. Wrong guy, did it. He's taking his eye off the ball. Yep, yep, yep, yep.

All right, Dylan, is your turn with number two? All right, well, I feel like a lot of big heavy hitters in the DC Marvel, the DC villain universe. I find that the villains was easier to come up with for me you know the the heroes once you get past the big hitters it was tough for me but with the villains just all sorts of like wacky crazy villains that have been immortalized in comics and a TV and a film

and on this podcast so with that in mind I'm going to go with a character who I think is a little sleeper hit for this show that we've uh maybe like our mascot I'm going to go with

gentleman ghost you can't kill him he's already dead he's a couple yeah actually actually matter there was a thing very recently where he got hit with a magic

item that brought him back to life just to be just so someone would kill him well but he's the ghost and he's a top hat and a monocle he's the original mascot way back when was he before armless tiger man or was he after armless tiger man he might have been before armless tiger man armless tiger man was really early on gentleman ghost was really early on too so i think the two of them were kind of like o d mascots it's them and Baby Juggernaut. We've been neglecting baby juggernaut a lot lately, by the way. I feel like Child Protective Service is going to get called on us. Baby Juggernaut was way after Armless Tiger Man. I know. I'm just saying we've been neglecting Baby Juggernaut.

I will also say that I put gentlemen ghost on this list. Armless Tiger Man did not make the Marvel list. I was tempted at one point to throw Armless Tigerman in there as the joke. I was also tempted, but not as a joke as a serious threat. I mean, he killed that guy with his feet. Right, he's a scary man. Yeah. All right, John, you have third pick. I mean, you guys were poo-pooing him earlier,

but, like, the Joker is the obvious person to put in this. Because, I mean, his kill count is pretty extensive. He's survived all kinds of scrapes with Batman and Superman and other people. He's got, like, gadgets and stuff that he can use to kill people. and I imagine as well with enough time in preparation he can come up with some whackamimi him to

like you know go up against the biggest and best that EC has to offer I'm just going to point out that he has the greatest power of plot armor is what you essentially admitted to yeah absolutely of him going up against Darkside

who we've just covered has like crazy crazy powers and the Joker just like hits him with a comically oversized hammer. Yeah. We pulled the face, you know. Well,

you've got two versions of Joker. There's the version of a Joker does that and then you have like the Edge Lord Joker that's like, this hammer was made

out of the four skins of dead children. Yeah. Edge Lord. How did that write in for DC go? Corey. It's surprising

about her to call back yet. Did they not see the picture you drew of the... No, no. I'm going to stop because I can say something inappropriate. As if I should stop now. Anyway.

But yeah, no, I mean, John, you're not incorrect. I mean, Joker's iconic for a reason. But to me, he's, he's, he's has that ability of, yes, he survives, but he's surviving against people who are actively trying not to kill him. You know, Batman's not going to try to kill him. Superman's definitely not going to try to kill him. But, yeah. I mean, like I said, he's the iconic villain for a reason.

It's just, at the end of the day, dude with the skin condition. So what you're saying, Corey, is if you were to rank the Babylon villains, you would rank Joker very low. Signs like that's, you're like, like, F tier, maybe. Sounds like that's what you're saying to me. I'd put him right above, right above Penguin. Well, wait on my next pick. Well, speaking of next picks, we've talked around it enough.

We'll go Darkside. He's the biggest bad of the biggest bads in D.C. Yeah. I got a couple of... I got a couple of just... If I'm just focusing on heavy hitters, then DarkSides up next, yeah. I think that that's fair, because I had him on my list as well. Like, honestly, like, everybody knows the Dark Side.

It's, like, you don't fuck with him. Yep. so that's that's fair enough you know you know well that's going to fuck with gentleman ghost you're picking gentleman ghost again your second pick are we going from mine now

lady lady i thought we're just talking all right uh no i'm gonna go to the penguin fuck you Corey oh boy the penguin's awesome boy i hope penguin doesn't go up against dark side in the first round I mean we all know what's gonna happen

whenever most people go up against dark side Dark's just going to eat them. It doesn't matter. Penguins on the list and you can't take him away. That's true. Well, unless somebody else know, yeah. Oh, boy. All right, John, you're up.

I will go for Deathstroke. The Terminator. There you go. Old Slade Wilson. Mm-hmm. Niams sounds really familiar. Not quite as good as the real Terminator, but, you know. Yeah.

Yeah. That guy. Do you write him down? He'd be a hero, though, wouldn't he? I mean, he terminates. Probably he must have been in the comics at some point. Yeah, but think so. Yeah, you'd wonder.

Who wins the property of that? I bet he's a Marvel thing now. They have Alien and Predator. I'm sure they have Terminator. Yo, do you think we could get the right to the Terminator? A we could write it? Oh, yeah, we'll write. I mean, we'd have to be.

We do a better job in some of those more recent movies they've done the last like 30 years. What if the Terminator came back in time, but he went two four back in time, and then he became like a baby? Baby Terminator. Whoa. It's the exact same movie,

except that he's a baby. Yeah, it's the exact same movie. He's just a baby. How much better would that film be if he was just a fucking tiny baby? I need your jacket, your boots. in your motorcycle.

Why? Don't worry about it. You know? You're the bit where he's like talking on the phone in the phone booth, but like he's just like, to like, bring the phone down here. He's on tippy toes. Me up to the phone.

Lift me up to the phone. Okay. There you go. I think you can work. Yeah. My next. pick, I'm going to go with the smartest man. Well, maybe second smartest man now, depending on who you ask.

Lex Luthor. Wait, who's the first one? I think Mr. Terrific technically. Okay. I think Mr. Trivick is technically the smartest person. I think Lex is second. I mean, I could just do this whole list on Superman villains, really. We didn't pick Mr. Terrific.

Not yet. Well, no, he's a hero. Nice. What if you make him a bad guy though, so then let's put him out of this The right to him as well make him bad. There you go Dylan your turn. Oh Bain good pick Yeah, so he's a big puncher You know Bain when you do him right is a great like he's not just like a stupid mindless

guy with big muscles the way they did him in the Batman and Robin movie yeah but like in the comics he's actually like a smart guy but also is really like strong

and like that's a tough guy like fight up against so I think Bain Bain's a great pick I think Bain's a good pick especially in like a tournament like this you're like yeah you can see

if you were like across the ring from Bain like oh fuck dude he's gonna beat the shit out of me you know like no pretense no magic no whatever, he'll just punch you really hard. Now your teeth will fall out. I mean, even if it's venomless vein, it is still an incredibly strong, incredibly intelligent, you know, hand-to-hand fighter.

Yep. Yep, yep. All right, John, it's your turn. I will go for Sinestro. Oh, very good. The antithesis of the green lantern. leader of the Sinestro Cor.

He's a bit egotistical having an entire core named after himself. That doesn't call him the Yellow Lantern Corps. It's the Sinestro core. Yeah. Taught Hal Jordan everything he knows about being a lantern.

There you go. There you go. And not everything that Sinestro knows. No. Didn't teach him all his yo-yo tricks. Kept out to himself. All right. Jordan. This is called

Walking the Dog. Walking the dog's piss easy, though. Anybody can do that. Yeah, but he doesn't know that because he doesn't know the Earthlings also have yoios. Yeah, but he doesn't know the Earthlings have yoios.

He has, by now, he's been the Earth loads of times. Well, yeah, but he doesn't stay very long. He doesn't like Earth. Because he hasn't used a yo-yo. But if he did, that he'd love Earth. No, no, he loves, he uses yo-yo's all the time. Remember, he didn't tell

how Jordan everything he knows about yo-yoing. He just doesn't He just underestimated how much Hal Jordan knows about yo-yo's. Oh, I'm saying Hal Jordan doesn't like yo-yo's. That's what I thought we were talking about. Like, Tenaster did talk about yo-yo's because you don't like it. Common misconception. I've heard that.

I've heard that. Where are we at right now, number wise, Dylan? This is number, we're going to number 10. Number 10. Okay. If I'm going to stay on the theme of dangerous heavy hitters, I am going to go with another Superman villain. I'm going to go Brainiac.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, he's very smart. Very smart. Conqueror. Likes to capture bottles, or lots to capture cities, put some of the bottles. He also likes to take bottles and put him in the cities,

but not people knows that, and it's littering, technically. I love the idea of him capturing a bottle. Like, he said so he trapped in a bottle. That's a box with, like, a stick. Yeah. There's some liquid that's under the box. It's like, oh, don't you want to put that liquid

inside of you bottle the bottle i do i want that yeah yeah he's hiding in the bush you know it's straight all right till it's your turn okay um you know you know what i want to do what you want to do i'm going to tell you what i'm going to do i want to add a little bit of femininity to this list of dudes and whatever it is um

dark side is I assume a dude I don't know I don't want to assume his jet you know um he's capable of his children

with the how with who there's female apocalypticins I don't fuck I always um so I'm gonna go

a poison iv That's a good pick. I think Poison Ivy is like fun. I think she's a good character. I think she has like a good move set in terms of like the other people in like Batman's Rokes Gallery. She has like an interesting ability. She used it quite effectively.

I think she's a fun character. She's had her own solo comic for a few years now. She's like they kind of position her. They kind of position her as an anti-hero kind of. But yeah, she's had a big upgrade in power and. Yeah, that's a really good pick. I think people love Poison Ivy. Like, there's a certain subset of people that are like,

she's our girl. Yeah. And I think that she deserves some representation in our mainly male-based list so far. Our male... It's a sausage fit. A little bit. Is that your way of challenging us for our next picks to be women? No.

Okay. But I also expected Hardy Quinn to be on the list, and I was like, I'm not going to pick Hardy Quit. I would not pick Arlie Quinn at all Okay, cool No problem Who's next? John

No pressure, John Yeah I was gonna pick Reverse flash But is there a lady reverse flash Uh Yes and no She there is a speedster

But she is not as fast as a flash She does not She doesn't really have the same kind of speed force energy As Eobarthon Has or what does your zoom we'll stick with

reverse flash yeah good call her name was Professor Zoom no no her name is golden glider

that's almost worse Professor Zoom was a different character Professor Zoom by the way I wanted us all to unanimously agree it's a fucking terrible name yeah

I would agree All right, my next pick. I am going to go. He's been around a little bit more lately, and they've been kind of treating him as kind of an anti-hero. I'm going to go with Superboy Prime. Are you familiar with Superboy Prime? I feel like that's come up on this show, hasn't it?

So Superboy Prime. is Superman from Prime Earth, which is considered Our Earth. And basically on Our Earth, Clark Kent is just a kid who reads comic books, and his favorite character is Superman because they have the same name. And then he, through the random crises that have occurred, finds out that the world of superheroes are real and that he's one of them. He's the only person on Prime Earth that has powers. and when he realizes that like the the heroes are not how he wants them to be, it kind of breaks his psyche.

And he gets so mad, he punches the fourth wall and shatters it and is able to traverse into the other parallel universes. So he's Superman, but with a lot of immaturity, a lot of rage, and an awareness that he is stuck in a comic book. basically he is a straw man for the angry comic book fanboy okay yeah I was gonna say a lot of that sounded like real bullshit does uh

Jeff Johns but yeah he's uh he's recently redeemed himself and he is actually trying to help Superman stop Darkside from taking over the world what else is Jeff Johns written a lot of things hopefully Thankfully, not much of it's a DC anymore. That makes it seem like some of it's in Marvel?

No, no, he does a lot of indie stuff through image now. He has a whole little universe he's established there for his comic series Geiger. He has a character named Redcoat. A lot of it is like sort of a post-nuclear world kind of setting. Okay. We're not missing much. I don't think so, personally. I've never been a big fan of Jeff Johns.

work that seems to be having it all right Dylan's your turn all right I have a lot of stuff red and dine I wonder who I should go with I'm gonna have like two other picks after this right I believe so yes I want to go with Brainiac you already picked Brainiac we've already had him do we yeah but we did it yep fuck cut the spit out all right Well, in that case, I'm going to go with King Shark. There you go. John Constantine's former lover.

He's a shark. And he's a king. King Shark. He's potentially descended from gods as well. Essentially. He debuted in the 90s Superboy comic that was set in Hawaii. And voiced by Sylvester Stallone. Ah, there you go.

How about that? There you go. There you go. All right, John, your turn. I think we could do with some more animal-based villains on this list. Okay. So I'm going to go with Gorilla Grod. That's good pick.

Mm-hmm. It's got mind control. Big angry gorilla with mind control, yeah. The scourge of Gorilla City. My favorite city. Yeah. Good flash villain. One of my favorite, one of my favorite out-of-context moments of all time will be that season of the flash that starts with guerrilla grodd busting into Barry Allen's dorm room, essentially.

Mm-hmm. Fantastic. So my next pick, I also agree that we are, we don't have enough animal representation. We also don't have a lot of large representation, and we also don't have a lot of alien conqueror representation. I'm going to go with Staro the Conqueror, a giant space starfish that is able to basically release smaller versions of him that connect everybody to a hive mind. You've talked about Star before. Staro, yeah, Staro is fun. I actually have a Staro figure over there on the bookshelf.

You're going to get it? Do you want me to? It's a visual show. All right, I'll be here back. It's like a little star you. But really angry. That's how I visualize it. It's a big Star-U, I think.

It's a big, it's a big Star-U is small. Star-O-is-big. Yeah? He's got a big giant eye as well. Yeah, well, Star-U does. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the little appendages binned. And then on the back, you have his giant, terrifying maw.

Yeah, not like Star-E. I mean, Star You would be a little more scary with a giant toothy maw. But he doesn't need that. He's already badass. There you go. So, Dylan, your turn. I'm going to go a parallax. Oh, that's a good one.

Now, here's, I have a weird question for you to add for you on that. Yes. Is this parallax that has possessed the body of Howell Jordan? Is this parallax the fear entity itself? The way that I originally understood Parallax, and I know that the beautiful thing about DC is that there's a very long and complicated relationship with every single character that has ever existed. The way I understood Paragher. It's a bit like with Zorn and Magneto.

The way I understood Parlax was that it was Hal Jordan, and it was a great character because it was a twist, nobody saw coming. it added a lot to this character and then they reconded by saying no it was like an alien that took over Hal Jordan and it was different so I think that I guess because the retcon is

it's the alien we will have to say because the alien did the shit that Hal Jordan did that's that's he was under the possession of the alien yes exactly so I'm going to go with Parlax the alien. But I find that like very interesting. I don't

like a whole lot of DC stuff, but I find that very interesting up to the point where they're like, it was an alien. You can thank Jeff Johns for that. You're asking what Jeff Johns has done. That's one of those things. So yeah, basically the idea is that

all of the lanterns, so there's different colored lanterns that have different representations. All of them have an avatar. The avatar is kind of like a god, essentially. and the yellow god of fear is parallax. So all of the power that comes from fear is an embodiment of parallax. Right. So it's like a giant yellow alien insect.

Yeah. Whereas I think it's I-O is the Green Lantern one and it's a giant whale. Sure. Yeah. there's a lot of them the compassion ones an octopus the hope one is like a bird with two faces rage is like a bore it's a whole thing yeah sounds like it the lanterns got complicated when they started adding more colors there's a lot of colors they added even more there's the sorrow lanterns they're gray there's uh i think there's like uh i think there's envy but it's not the

same as greed. That's different emotion, apparently. So, very different. Very different. Very different. I will say, though. Yeah, no, we'll save that. You can say it. You can say it. I was just going to say that there is an orange lantern, which is the, their, their power comes from avarice or greed, but because of the nature of their power and that they are dominated by that emotion, they kill one another until there's only one of them. And all of the other orange, lanterns become constructs by the one orange lantern lar flees or agent orange as they have been referred to as agent orange dude jeff johns yeah is he going on our list i wouldn't mind putting them there

there's a couple of guys that are like you know the writers of these comics and we love so much are like maybe you guys aren't that good man anyway yes so Paralax is your pick, John. That is your turn now. I'm struggling a little bit. I think I might go for Bayface. Okay. I figure, like, his powers offer something a bit unique and different

compared to a lot of the guys we have picked. And, yeah, like, in theory, you should be pretty powerful, but, you know, in practice. this, I'm sure there's plenty of ways to beat him, but why not? Playfaced. That's a good pick. Getting his own movie or TV show or something?

They're filming it. Wow. Yeah. Some fool I don't fucking know. They're filming it. I know that. I don't know if it's a movie or a TV show or what. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. So, I don't fucking know. I'm only going to pick. I'm not going to go a ton of Kryptonians. Superboy Prime

offered something very distinct and very different. If I have to only pick one more cryptonian, I'm going to pick someone with the powers of Superman, but also with a brutal, tactile military mindset. I'm going to go with General Zod.

Okay. Makes sense. Yep. Yep, yep. So Dylan is your turn. How many picks do you have left? me and John have one pick one okay this is the end of the road fellas and I really quickly would like to point out

that we have two animals three animals they become starfish as an animal and one woman I think this is more about DC and it does it with us I'm saying it has a lot to do with people being comfortable with Superman punching a woman or not I think is what is coming at least from my picks I'm picking a lot of Superman villains

And Superman's punching him Well the woman isn't from Superman No I'm talking about the ones I've picked I didn't pick a woman yet because I've been focusing on Superman villains Honestly at the moment I'm I'm torn between a couple of picks So I'm not sure to pick

Okay One of them is a Batman villain Okay And the other one No, one of them's a Superman villain and the other ones are Batman villains. But as Corey pointed out, a lot of the Batman villains are kind of like... Great against Batman, not so much against someone with powers. Yeah, I mean, obviously I picked the Penguin because I love the Penguin, but like, let's be totally honest with themselves.

Penguins are going to get the dick kicked out of them by everybody. So I have a similar, like... So, like, if you go down the list, Two-Face, Great Batman Villain, we'll get the dick kicked out of them. by everybody on this list, right? Two faces. He's got two faces. He doesn't even. He has one face cut in half.

He only has one face. If you think about it, he's got one face. So his real name is one face, which is not a pressure. It's just one face, but one side of it is horrifically scarred. Correct. It's the same face. It's just one.

There's just less of it on one side. It's kind of half a face if you think about it. The benefit, it's 0.5 phase, and that doesn't track at all. That's not a fun thing to put on T-shirts, you know? So, like, I was thinking about Scarecrow as well, because I, this stuff, Scarcro in, in D.C. is pretty good. And so here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to say, it's a coin flip.

I actually, as a, as a, honorable mention, I was going to say Professor Pig, just because I love Cremorson. Yeah. But I also think, it's not going to work. Yeah. It's not going to work. So I'm going to say this. I'm going to do a coin flip.

Corey, if you want to get a wheel out, I'm going to do a coin flip between the scarecrow and Bizarro. Okay. Those are the two ones that I'm not quite sure to pick. Scarecrow, because, like, it's scarecrow has some kind of, like, actual, like, legitimate ways to stop people, like, like his fear toxins and stuff, like he can do a lot of things with that. What do you think? Scarecrow heads and then Bizarro Teals?

Is it a wheel or is it a coin flip? We're going to do a coin flip on Google. What do you think? Are you happy with Scarecrow and Heads and Bizarro on Teals? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I couldn't do it blind.

Tails. Bezaro it is. So Bizarro is. is of course the reverse Superman so everything the Superman is

and does and says Bizarro is the opposite basically he lives in like counter earth I think is a counter earth yeah his planet is shaped

like a cube instead of a spear yeah yeah so like everything's just like different and the other like the opposite

the other way and I think that that's a great that's a great that's the kind of villain you can only really get away with in like a superman comic i think he has cold rays instead of uh heat rays and he has fire breath instead of cold breath yeah you can't really have like of his ass instead of his mouth oh well there you go i told you that so uh fucked up yep so anyway uh so real quick in some in some

Continuities, Bizarro is a failed clone of Superman. In others, he is just another dimensional being. I usually prefer the other dimensional being aspect of it. I feel like there's enough clones of Superman out there. So yeah, no. Bizarro, I think is a good pick. Okay. John, you have the final pick?

Well, since you went for Bizarro, I'll go for Scarecrow then. There you go. Nice. Are you going to pick Zorro? Yeah, I mean, I was sort of torn between Bizarro. Scarecrow and Mr. Freeze, who I thought, like, being able to, you know, wield the power of ice might make him a formidable character.

Although I guess maybe, who's the other guy? Captain Cold? Captain Cold, yeah, that's the one. Captain Cold doesn't have... Captain Cold doesn't have... Captain Cold doesn't have the immunity aspect of it that Mr. Freeze has. Like, Mr. Freeze has that thing of, like, can't survive in anything above below zero temperature

or his captain cold can so I think it's like it kind of works out in Freeze's favor more I think yeah yeah that's a good call I was gonna I was thinking about Mr. Freeze as well so that's not a bad call

all right would you want would you want to stick with Scarrow what do you think you want to coin flip coin flip Oh, there we go Oh, this rules two coin flips in a row

What a scarecrow losing Two coin flips? Wow Yeah Oh, he's gonna be really pissed With that one All right, John, what do you think? So, say, what was... Skerkrow was head by the time, we'll make him tails this time

Oh, I got it right this time Up a bit, oh, there you go, yeah Oh, he won! No, he didn't. No, he didn't. because you said he was tails this time. Oh, yeah, he lost. Scarecrow lost two coin flips. Poor Jonathan Crane.

Oh, he's going to be pissed about that. Poor Sillian Murphy. He's not going to like that at all. They make him more of a villain. All right. There we go. All right, Jill, do you want to run down our list, and then we have to start whittling it down?

So, our list of DC villains is Doomsday. gentleman ghost the joker darkside the penguin deathstroke lex luther bane sinestro briniac poison ivy reverse flash superboy prime king shark gorilla grod starro the conqueror parallax the alien playface general zod bizarreo and mr freeze no scarecrow that's a really that's a heavy list right there that's pretty good That's a heavy list. It's pretty good. All right, so I guess we'll go through, yay or nay, on them. Dylan, do you want to read them down for us one more time, and we'll figure out who's staying and who's going? Doomsday.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Gentlemen, ghost. No. John? You waiting for me? Yes.

I'll say... I mean, we were in view because... They'll have to make your choice. But once Corey said no, he was automatically on the movie pile, we thought it was courteous to give you an opportunity to this. We want you to make sure your voice is heard. Exactly. The Joker.

No. No. Yes. What the fuck? He's on the list, too. You should have said yes to tell him a ghost, bitch. I'll be saying their penguin. Dark side. Dark side.

Yes. Yes. Yes. The penguin. No. No. Yeah. All right.

I knew he wasn't getting it in, but I wanted to put him in anyway. Deathstroke. Yes. Yes. Yes. Lex Luthor. Yes. Yes.

yes now I think if you're talking about like fist fight that's gonna be a tough one if he's got his if he's got his battle suits though well what if the penguin had a big battle suit dressed up like a like a duck

he should invest in one of those instead of bumerless what if he had loads of penguins that had rockets on them and he just sent them off to do his business they just waddled think it Bain Bain

Yes Yes Yes An Astro Yes Yes Yes Yes

Braniac Yes Yes Yes Yes Oies and Ivy Yes Yes

Yes Yes reverse flash yes sure yeah super boy prime i'm gonna say no didn't you pick him i did but i think they're better cryptonians on the list all right i don't know on the bottom so i'll just say no too yeah i'll say they know as well all right so that'll just eliminate him completely he's not in the list in shark yes yes yes No. Ooh, interesting play.

Gorilla Grods. Yes. Yes. Yes. Daro the Conqueror. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Firelax. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Playface. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. General Zod. Yes. Yes. Yes. Oh, bizarreo. Yes.

Yeah. No. Ooh. Which in bizarre world means yes. Oh, there you go. Well, he's in the baby pile because both of us said, said yes. Yeah. Well, we'll worry about that later.

Mr. Freed. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. How many are we left with? We have 15 yeses. So we have to go through the maybe pile and pick one out of these cons.

Okay. Yeah. We have five in the maybe pile because we said no to Superboy Prime. So he's out. So there's five in the maybe pile. Gentleman Ghost, the Joker, the Penguin, King Shark, and Bizarro. That's a tough one. It's really not.

I think, well, while there's three of us here, John. Well, John, you go ahead and say your piece first. I'm curious now. I mean, because the Joker is more of a threat than all of the rest of them put together. is the joker more of a threat than a ghost yes he's very polite he's a corporal being so yes how would the joker

how would the joker beat gentleman ghost uh i don't know he'd use uh joker powers or something i knew you were gonna say joker powers this is a card trick And gentlemen to go was like, what? That was my card. I did it twice.

The joke was like, well, huh? Oh, man. Okay. Corey, I feel like it's up to you and me here. Yeah, well, maybe. Corey, this feels like, and I don't want to get ahead of ourselves here, the opportune time,

spin a wheel. got a wheel are you going to put everybody else on a wheel the problem we're going to have is we can go down through this list and like whittle it down right what we're going to end up doing is we're going to have the Joker against like two or three other people

I feel like that's the way this is going to go with the best will in the war is we put a wheel that's just the other people John is always going to go for the Joker so what I'm saying is we can whittle down from five to like two or three it's always going to be the Joker and then one or

two other people. Okay. I'm interested to hear like who would you guys pick from the guys that are left then? Well for the seek of clarity I'm going to say that because I didn't pick the Joker because he's just a guy. It's the seam of the penguin. I love the penguin but

he's just a guy with a weird flipper hand he's not going to do well in this like what the fuck right? He's not going to do well so I'm happy to take the penguin off the If I'm taking the Joker off the list, I'm taking the penguin off the list. I think that's fair. Yeah. Okay?

King shark is a shark. You can argue, is that good? It's, you know, I mean, he's a big shark. A lot of people, a lot of people die from shark attacks. And I would say more people would die from shark attacks if those sharks were on land. So I would say there's a good chart for a shark there. Gentleman ghost, he's a ghost. So, like, how do you?

you beat a ghost it's not like louisies mansion you just suck them up it's there's nuances to it but again if you want to just get rid of genital ghost because how do you beat a ghost nobody else can be the ghost i'm like well that's fair enough like that's you know so i'm going to say if i had to pick and if we have to have the joker as one of the guys i'm going to say either king shark or bazaaro or both as my picks because bazaaro is a really fun interesting character that could work against a lot of these people, but could possibly be easily manipulated into some kind of dilution, but still has a good shit against a lot of these people.

And King Shark is a fucking shark. I mean, yeah, I mean, my whole thing was I didn't want to have too many cryptonians on the list, but, you know, when you put them up against that, Bizarro kind of has everybody whipped on that end. So what do we say? Bizarro against the Joker. That's what I'm thinking it sounding like. So should we flip the coin again?

Should we flip the coin? Do we leave it in fate's hand to determine whether it's the Joker or Bizarro? How does everybody feel about this? Because I know for fact two of us are okay with this. And John, these are both your picks. So much like Alien versus Predator, whoever wins, we lose.

It was Diven's pick for Bizarro. I mean, whichever one we pick Dylan wins. That's true. No, I don't win if Joker win. I think, yeah. I specifically didn't want Joker. I would lose if Joker wins. But I would win if it's all right.

So we're bringing the coin flip up again. We got to leave up the fate. And listen, I'm happy. So what's the rules? Who's heads, who's heels? John, what do you think? Don't leave it up to me. Is that teals or is a head?

I mean, I called one. This is heads. I think Corey should call this. Corey, Corey, you should pick this. That's right. Corey should pick this. All right.

Well, we'll go in order. We'll go heads, Joker, Tails Bizarro. Okay. Joker, it is. Yes.

Justice has been stirred. The faiths have sealed it. That's the way it is. I'm just saying, Junker is going to have a rough first round no matter who the fuck he's up against. I lost. of the juxtaposition of John's A,

justice has been served about the Joker. Yeah, right. Just never fucking serves. Historically. Historically. Never got to come up and... Let me read the list. Even, we all knew it was going to end up like that anyway,

so I don't know why we did the whole fucking ring and roll. The list of our DC villains bracket is Doomsday. The Joker. Dark Side. Deathstroke. Lex Luthor. Bein. Nestro.

Greeniac. Poison Ivy. Reverse flash. Rilla Grod. Star or the Conqueror. Parallax. Clayface. General Zod.

Mr. Freeze. Not a battle list. Not a battle list. That's a heavy hitter list. I think so. Well. So, John. Well, actually before we, we cut to

John on this. What we're going to do is we have now officially got our four lists of competitors. We're going to assemble a bracket. I likely will be doing that off off air because I'm probably going to end up spending the wheel a bunch. And I love a wheel. I love a wheel. So with the wheels will determine first round matchups and then we will come together in a future episode, whether it's next episode or another episode down the line. And we start figuring out who's advancing in these brackets. That's good. Sounds good, right? Yeah. All right. Well, John, now, feel free to tell us how many movies you've watched for the year.

So, I am now a two, eight hundred and twenty-one movies for twenty-five. You're not bad. Almost, I think you're over about 25 since the last time we talked. That's a good bit. Yeah. What's your most recent one? I threw quite a few movies. The most recent was a movie called Clifford, which was

Martin Short. Made in, yeah, 1990, and then it didn't get released until 1990. It's sat on the shelf for ages. But I really enjoyed it. It's got, like you say, Martin Short playing basically 10-year-old boy who's like a demon child, who makes the life of his uncle played by Charles Gruden a living hell when he goes to stay with him

but it's weird and very very funny in places very weird movie yeah for Martin Short to be playing a child no like no camera trickery nothing it's just Martin Short but it works sure enough

so where can they go to read more about your opinions on Clifford if they want to find out more they can just head to letterboxed and look me up

at Big John Bowsky Allemwood and Dylan what do you get up to during the week well I do a radio show on Monday nights

from 9 o'clock to 11 o'clock. It's on Bounce Digital Radio.com. UK, you can listen to it on your web browser. Check it out whenever you want, whatever 9 o'clock UK time is for anybody listening to this across the world. You can, like, reference it, figure out what the real time is.

We play a lot of music that I really like, a lot of grungy music, a lot of new music, a lot of modern music, a lot of stuff you might have heard before. I try to play all sorts. I love to Lana Del Rey, if you like that. So I'd like to be checked out out. It's really cool.

And then also I will stream on Twitch sometimes where I show some of the animations I do. I've been working some animations that's on YouTube. At the moment, I think it's Team Crows and I. The link will probably be in the description as well. There's also, there's a couple of animations up there already. So if you like those, thank you very much. There you go. And I have my other show Large Old Cup.

It's on Spotify and everywhere else there's podcast, same as this show. And also I have a writing project called Henry's Usual. That is also linked in the description. We're also on social media. We post sometimes post clips of the show of bits we thought were funny. Like, for example, the clip of Dylan and me realizing that Dylan and I had the same idea of giving Magneto Ciphylus. VAC just got posted the other day. Good little good little laugh moment.

I think we're pretty smart. I think we're clever. I think we're quite smart, if you will. I did the bet. Did the bet. Very clever. Anyway, you can find us in social media of all the garbage that you probably should not be on, but we'll be on because it's a fun way to kill time. Until next time, though, we'll see you later.

Goodbye. Bye. Bye. Thank you.