The Smark Avengers - Magneto vs Doctor Doom?! The Marvel Villains Bracket Gets Brutal

Episode Date: January 9, 2026

The villains take center stage — and it gets mean. In this episode, Corey, Dylan, and Jon finish the Marvel Villains side of their ongoing Marvel vs DC Tournament, battling through every matchup from the opening round to a final, brutal winner. Using comic lore, power scaling, and pure fandom logic… plus a chaos mechanic designed to throw everything off balance. ⚔️ Matchups include: Magneto vs Doctor Doom Loki vs Cassandra Nova Thanos vs Ultron Super Skrull vs Carnage Green Goblin vs Doctor Octopus And more villain-on-villain carnage Jon is pushed into some genuinely uncomfortable territory as his favorite Marvel villains are forced to fight each other, leading to some of the most heated debates yet. Who wins on raw power? Who outsmarts the competition? And which villain benefits the most from chaos? If you love Marvel Comics, villain breakdowns, “who would win” debates, and tournament-style chaos, this episode is must-watch. 💬 Join the Debate Which Marvel villain should’ve taken it all? Did we make the right calls — or totally botch it? Drop your takes in the comments. 👍 Like the video 🔔 Subscribe for more Marvel vs DC tournament episodes, comic deep dives, and unhinged debates Click the link for Dylan's radio show!: http://www.bouncedigitalradio.co.uk Click the link for Dylan's Twitch stream: http://Twitch.tv/spookylaroux Click the link for Jon's Letterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/bigjonbowski/ Click the link for Corey's project "Henry's Usual": https://www.tumblr.com/henrysusual Click the link for Corey's show "Large Old Cup": https://open.spotify.com/show/2YHMppnl9inQevwLIxR64f

All right. Well, then we're going to have to masquerade as some kind of old gnarly dude in order to... Yeah, well, I'll dress up like in that skit from I think you should leave. It's too fucking hot. I want to be around. She's like, oh my God, you're so hot.

You're perfect. Hi, everybody. Welcome to Swirk Avengers. My name is Corey. And with me, he's Dylan and John. Hi. I don't know how much enough. Enough. Enough will be in. None of it. It just starts. This is the only episode without a cold open. It just starts straight. Hopefully for good reason. Probably for great reasons. Hi, folks. Welcome back to Smart Avengers. My name's Corey. And with me is Dylan and John, as we just said. Guys, how's it going?

It's going pretty good on my head. Yeah, not too bad. Not too bad. Good, good. So, We were originally going to touch on the King Dynasty, but King Dynasty is a bitch to get through. So we're going to take a little more time so that when we do get into that storyline, we give it all of the grace and context and texture that it needs in order to convey what's going on in that storyline. Is that fair to say? Yeah, it's going to take a lot of time for us to tell you that it sucks. Yeah. Or does it? Spoiler on it.

So instead, what we're going to do is we're going to do is we're going to be. going to go back to our bracket. Last episode, we worked our way through the Marvel Heroes wing, and we settled on the Scarlet Witch being the representative for Marvel Comics in the hero's side in this tournament. I don't know if we

saddled on it. I mean, I think it was pretty definitive. We were forced into accepting this. Upsets occurred. Mm-hmm. I mean, we lost Spider-Man and the Hulk and

and so many heavy hitters in the first round, just due to pairings and matchups, and then, of course, random chance. So, I feel like it's only fair that we can fit, that we finish out the Marvel wing, and we do our Marvel villains, and we see who's going to meet Scarlet Witch in the quarterfinals,

or semi-finals. Is it semi-quarter and then finals, or is it quarter-semifinals? It's quarter-semi-finals. I think it's quarter-semi, yeah. So this would be the semifinals is who is this person is going to take on the Scarlet Witch. Mm-hmm. All right.

Well, for those who do not know how we do this, basically we have over the last, like four or five episodes now, we have selected the participants of this tournament. We have put them in first round matches against each other. And now we're going to make the decision on who's going to advance in their fight. And we're going to basically do that by having a discussion on the pair. and who we think is better, who's stronger, who's weaker, who has advantages. And if we cannot reach a unanimous decision where we all agree on a winner, then we're going to go to a wheel. The wheel has my name and John's name and Dylan's name on there multiple times.

There's several little slices with our names on it. And whoever's name it lands on, that person's decision is the overall winner. So there is an advantage if two of us, us agree that one person should win and one of us thinks that the other should win, there's a higher chance of the two people winning that because they're both on the wheel multiple times. However, that does leave room for a Cinderella story and upset where somebody who has no shot in chance or no real shot of winning can walk away with a victory.

Kind of like how, you know, when we first were putting together the Marvel Heroes side, I don't think any of us went, oh, Scarlet Witch is clearly the person who's going to be representing Marvel Comics. Should have been Domino. Should have been Domino. So that's how the bracket works. Do you guys have any questions before we jump into the villains' wing? Nope.

Guys, here is our Marvel Villains Quadrant. We have our first round matches over here. For those at home, you will not be able to see this because OBS really does not like the wheel for whatever reason. So I could still record it and show it to you, but it's going to be a little laggy. So this is mainly going to be just for the benefit of John and Dylan seeing the layout of the first round matches. But we're going to start off with a big one, and it was one that when we were determining the first round matchups, I think John felt a little fear. We're going to have Magneto versus Dr. Doom.

Now, Magneto, I feel like, might be kind of a controversial pick to have in the villain's side. He's more known for being a villain, but for like 20 years now, he's been on the side of angels. But, John, I feel like no one should start this out but you. So by all means, take it from here. This is an absolute worst pairing that could have happened. Like, I'm a huge fan of Magneto. obviously we've done multiple episodes on him and dr doom is just like you know the pre-eminent badass villain of the entire marvel universe so man this is going to be so tough to pick like both uh like

obviously very powerful characters both very egotistical and sort of uh you know dismissive of other people as well. Both been around for a while. Taking on some heavy hitters on the good side of things. So I don't know how we're going to do this. I really don't. I really like how you were like, this is the worst possible racket it could have been.

I feel like Magneto versus Green Goblin would have been much worse for you. I mean, that would have been pretty tough as well, to be honest. That would have been, yeah. Yeah, because then you have to choose between your children and one of them must die. Ugh, why, though? Can't they both go through? Can they both die? Yeah, Corey, can we just put the both through an eye and just forget about it, even going through that?

Yeah, they've, every match moving four will just be a handicapped. It will be against the team of Magneto and Dr. Doom. Yeah. There you go. It's game over right there. One in, one out. Mm-hmm. So...

Fair. So, John, as completely as unbiased as possible. Mm-hmm. What are Magneto's strengths against Dr. Doom? Well, I mean, obviously the fact that Dr. Doom wears a metal suit, sort of works against him a little bit when he's going against the master of magnetism. But then at the same time, Dr. Doom is a master of magic and science. So I'm sure he could have come up with some sort of suit using a polymer that's non-metallic

or maybe imbued it with like magic something or other that kind of protects it from Magneto's powers if you really wanted to go down that route. But like, you know, on paper, it looks like Magneto's got the advantage. But then Dr. Doom is Dr. Doom with Dr. Doom with like a plethora of different, like, you know, disciplines and stuff that he can dip into to kind of bolster. his own abilities and protect himself from Magneto's powers. So I don't think it's as cut as cut and dry as one might think initially looking at this. So John, Dylan, what are your feelings on Dr. Doom versus Magneto?

I think Magneto would win. Really? Yeah. Okay. Oh, what are your reasoning for that? I don't know. I think you guys were putting a lot of stake in the Doctor Doom.

I'm like, I think maybe we forget just how like brutal and angry and amazing of a villain Magneto was. That's what kind of annoys me about Magnino being such a hero now is that it kind of

white washes a lot of all of the evil criminal shit that he did in the past. I think maybe people I kind of forget just how absolutely brutal he could be and how very good he is at fine-tuning his own powers

you know nobody really thought that he could pull Wolverine skeleton out through his skin but he did that and he can do a lot of other stuff as well you know we've talked a lot about the power creep in Marvel comics

when it comes to certain mutants and they just make up a load of shit like, oh yeah, he can do this now but like Magneto can do all sorts of weird stuff he can like mess with the iron in your blood he can mess with like you know molecules in the

iron fibers and your clothes or in the air or around you he's incredibly you've said that Dr. Doom is very well rounded in his is his ability but Magneto was very, very good at the one thing he's very good at. And I think that that would be factored in significantly.

So a jack of all trades, the master of none. Not to say that Douganyum isn't the master of none, but Magneto is just very, very good at what he does. And what he does is very specific. Well, I was going to say the rest of that expression famously, or maybe not so famously is, but it's better to know a lot about every, thing than a whole lot of one.

Well, do you believe that? I kind of do. I think versatility is important. If you take away Magneto's ability, like, I mean, this is Dr. Doom. This is mutants. This is superscience. This is magic. I mean, if he could nullify Magneto's powers, which the government has been able to do multiple times with inhibitor collars and whatever generic super science bullshit they want to do, then what does Magneto have going in his favor? At that point, if you remove his control of magnetism.

Do you think Magneto would walk into a fight with Dr. Doom and go, well, I'll be sweet. There's absolutely no way he'll be able to take away my magnetic powers. True. But, yeah, but if Dr. Doom has, like, preparation time as well, then don't you think he's going to have, like, plenty of ideas? of how he can nullify those powers and kind of take away whatever advantages Magneto might have. I think you guys are putting, like, you guys both put a lot, a lot, lot of stock into Dr. Dome. I'm like, I think like he is. In terms of like being a villain is very good.

He's very smart and he knows what he's doing a lot of the time. He also prepares quite well when it comes, especially if he knows he's going to fight Dr. Dume. not just going to waltz in, you know, jerking himself off. He's going to be like, he's going to, he's going to know what he's doing. He's going to game plan, you know, obviously Dr. Dume will as well. That's the fun of it. But I think that there's every chance that Magneto could walk away with the win as much as there is that Dr. Dyn could walk away with a win. That's what I think. I don't think it's as one-sided as you guys do. well I know I did that's the thing I don't think it's one-sided this is why I'm so torn because

I think they kind of match up so closely that I think they do it's gonna be tough to like you know decide on this I don't know I think doom for me I think doom is clear cut on this one I don't have as much to say that as you guys do that's it I don't think it's clear cut I don't think it's like 100% dude that's what I think I don't think I think it's like more of a coin flip sure that's fair

it just in my in my opinion I think Doom has had way more experience with high level power he's dealt with harder villain or you know Doom has fought the best of the best you know

not to say that Magneto hasn't but I mean you know doom went one to one with Thanos. Doom has gone up against, like, the Avengers, the Fantastic Four. Not to say Magneto hasn't, but, you know... He stole the Beyonders powers. Yeah. Oh, we've all done that.

I think, like, if you were to, if you were to say, like, what is Doom's assessment of Magneto? I think he sees Magneto as a political figure, as someone who could be important in that regard of, like, can definitely, you know, bring people to his side, but I think that Magneto wouldn't consider, or Doom wouldn't consider Magneto overall threat to him. But that's also factoring in that Magneto, or Doom is incredibly egomaniacal. So he's going to have a whole, he'll have a low opinion of every single fucking person on this list, even if you're looking at like Thanos and Apocalypse and shit.

Like Doom is, yeah, you know, it's, to me, he's there Lex Luthor. He's the be all end all, even if it's, just in his mind. It doesn't change the fact that he's the be-all-end-all. Mm-hmm. So I'm leaning to Doom. Okay. I mean, we all know that this is a very long-winded way of saying, we're going to spin the wheel. Yeah, we have to find out. We have to find out whose names mean what, though. Because you're leaning Magneto. I'm going Doom. So John is going to decide who has the advantage on the wheel.

Well, John can stay. We've established that as well. You can choose. You can just choose. You can just choose. If it lands and John, we just spin again. All right. If that's how you want to handle it, John, we'll do it that way. I think so. All right. But if it lands and John twice, he has to make a choice. There you go. I'm going to add another option is to spin a second wheel.

And I'll have to figure out what's on that second wheel after that. Dylan! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh, man. Dylan. There you go. Heavy hitter off the fucking board. ready. Oh, I love fucking stuff up.

Yeah. So, Dylan, remember last time you said that you didn't have a lot of good luck on the wheel? Could this be the beginning of a turn for you? No. I got one wheel spin correct last time, which I believe is Star Street. Yeah. So I really fucked it up. And this is probably going to be my one wheel win on this right.

So I got it early on right at the bat, you know? All right. Well, the master of magnetism is going to go. into the next round. Who will meet him, though? We have the Asgardian god of magic, stories, and mischief, Loki, versus Cassandra Nova, Professor Xavier's old woman, bald, evil psychopath, twin. I mean, she's the same age as he is. She just looks old. Well, she's bald. That ages women a lot. She doesn't have great skin. No. That's all so Well, she, you know, died.

She got to take care of herself, better. Yeah, she reconstituted herself on her own, which I think is commendable, really, when you think of what it. I was listening to some people talk about who their favorite mutant characters were, and one of them said that they liked the idea of Cassandra Nova, and they hated that they made her a young, attractive woman in the Deadpool movie. Any feelings on hot Cassandra Nova from Deadpool Wolverine? I think she's supposed to be kind of grim, isn't she?

Like, that's, I mean, that she is, like, a conny point to Charles Xavier. Yeah. You know, I mean, I wouldn't say no to hot Cassandra Nova. She can stick her hands in my head any day. It's not a euphemism, but it could be if you figure out what might be a euphemism for. I'm not quite sure how to get that to word. Yeah, if you can figure it out, let us know. Yeah, stick.

my her fingers into my well moving on we'll come back yeah so one person is a gifted telepath able to wreck a whole lot of shit with just the power of her mind and the other is quite literally a god with a untapped

potential when it comes to his full mastery of magic even though he is as old as he is it always seems like loki still has something else to learn So thoughts out the gate Who are you like in Loki versus Cassandra Nova? Wow. This is also very conflicting Because I want to say Cassandra Nova a lot

They really like that character And she is incredibly powerful Like as an analog to Charles Xavier You know He's the most or one of the most powerful telepath In Marvel history Loki, like you said, is also a god So that's kind of hard to

Bet against, isn't it? Yeah Oh, Dylan, anything coming across to you? Or John? Well, I think In terms of raw power, I don't know, I might Be tempted to give the edge to Cassandra Nova

But, like, I feel like Loki is you know he's kind of built his entire reputation on being like a cunning sort of individual who can manufacture

manipulate people and kind of use his sorcery and trickery and stuff to kind of get his way so I feel like maybe it's Loki's punning

which kind of takes it over Cassandra Nova's, like, you know, immense powers, but it's a tough one. I mean, I like Loki in this, period. I mean, Cassandra Nova's ego-maniacal, and I feel like that is the exact kind of trap that Loki can set in take care of quite easily. And again, it's magic versus mutant ability. And I feel like mutant ability has. it's limits and

I like Loki over Cassandra now I fought really hard to get Cassandra Nova in this tournament to begin with so I'm very tempted to say this is just a rough a rough draw for yeah well do you want to give her a fighting chance and pick Cassandra Nova because I feel like the way we're going we're all kind of leaning towards Loki

I mean I'm fine with staying with Loki but now I feel like fucking things up and spinning the wheel again. Do you want to see how lucky you are? Yeah, because I bought some scratch cards earlier today, and I'll tell you this, not so lucky. Okay. So let's see.

I'm going to, I'll go for Cassandra Nova. All right, John, are you in for Loki as well, or are you also for Cassandra Nova? I'm in for Loki. All right, so it's me and John again against Dylan. Dylan will luck strike twice for you. It's always you guys against me. It's not fair.

Oh, my God. Oh, it's a happy day. All right. Well, Cassandra Nova will advance pass Lose. I mean, we wanted there to be chaos, and chaos there shall be. So Cassandra Nova is going to face Magneto

in the next round. That's going to be an interesting fight just based off of the whole Charles situation. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Something that I feel like might not be as, it might be a little more clear cut, is we have the personal pain

in the ass of Wolverine and his lifelong rival enemy and mass murdering serial killer. They have no familial relation, do they? I know they teased it at one point. I think was it originally Sabretooth was going to be his dad? Yeah.

I think that was the rumor, yeah, but it never came to pass. That's probably for the best. But we got Sabretooth versus one of Dylan's favorite characters, the devout and powerful Exodus. So Dylan says you're a big proponent of Exodus. Let us know what you're thinking. Well, you know, guys, I'm thinking Exodus is probably going to win this one. Just right off the bat.

Excuse me, my old head, Mill Noodle. I think, Exodus is probably going to win. Exodus is an incredibly powerful mutant born in the time whenever they thought it was fun to just give mutants whatever the fuck power which we will see later on I believe with another evil mutant but Exodus is immensely powerful

telepathically and telekinetically and telekinetically and I think if that's the raw parameters of it that Exodus would absolutely hands down beat Sabretooth because Sabretooth as great as he is in close hand-to-hand combat and he has a vicious tendency if he can't even get close to Exodus

and there's no fight and I don't think he would wouldn't be able to get close to him so I think it's just pretty strong. straightforward with Exodus. John, what are you thinking? I mean, it's hard to argue against that really.

Like, the just power levels that you're looking at with Exodus compared to Sabretooth, it doesn't even come close. Like, hand-to-hand combat, obviously Sabretovens, but like, you know. Yeah, but you're not going to have a

hand-to-hand combat, I don't think. Exactly. Yeah. But, you know, I might, Go for Sabretooth anyway just to try and fuck things up. We want to see if Dylan can win a third time in a row is what you're saying? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, okay, okay. I'd be tempted to do that as well.

Wait, you can't both go over Sabretootho. Why not? Because then, what? You've won the last two when it's been the both of us against you. Right, but also, you're reasoning for he would win between Sabretooth and Xist's discount, just be, I'm about to see what Don't think. You got to, you have to pick a thing for real. You don't like, Corey, Corey, blah, blah, blah. In our, in our comics podcast right now, you can't on camera wholeheartedly say that you really believe Sabretooth would beat Exodus in a

fight. Well, I guess it depends on the parameters of the fight, for example. I don't know the full extent of Exodus's powers. So I'm hoping that you can enlighten me a little bit. Like, What are some of the more well-known aspects of Exodus's power set? That he is incredibly a powerful telekinetic and telepath. Like he can read minds, he can make people do what he wants them to do, but he can also, like, move things. There was a bit in, was it blood ties where they were on Genosia? And he creates a big force field around,

whatever the city is, that starts to like pull in and crush people. So it's going to crush the whole city. So he's put, he's made this entire forest field around the city. The whole city that he's drawing into himself to crush people, while he's also telepathically commanding the citizens of the, um, the city to fight against the Avengers, while he's also fighting the Avengers. Like he does all of this at once.

that's you know that's a lot of mental taxation going on there that's a lot could he do that when saber tooth is scratching him though actually this can fly I mean it depends like I said when I said it depends on the context of this we know that saber tooth specialty is is not usually the upfront attack

it's the psychological warfare he goes after people that you love and brutally murders them leaving them leaving it so that you find the remains knowing that he's the one who did it. He's also an expert, you know, hunter and tracker, so it's going to be more guerrilla warfare. Like, he's not going to, like, come out in the middle of the street and challenge Exodus to a fight necessarily.

If it, if he had to take down Exodus, Sabreto is going to come with a plan. Well, here's the thing. To counter both those points, yes. Exodus is nearest and dearest person is probably Magneto. So Sabreto would have to kill Magneto to get to Exodus,

which isn't happening. And second of all, Sabretooth might not be the kind of guy to go out in the street and demand a fight with Exodus. Whereas, Exodus would be the kind of guy who would come out in the street and go, I want to fight Sabretooth right now,

and force him into not having the chance to work his psychological warfare and just have the fight. He's a very brash individual. He's also very confident of his powers. I don't, Corey, you can pit or pitter your feet around this all you want, but you know that the answer is, Exodus. And you're just being, what I'm going to say is a silly boy. And I'm sorry for using such

language like that. I'm really appellate. Well, also, what I'm also doing is Exodus is not one of the more well-known characters as well. So I'm hoping to also like learn a little bit more about him. And for the audiences listening, also learn a little bit more about him. And then that's just saying, oh, yeah, he just dog walks, Sabretooth. Who does have more of a commercial well-known mainstream appearance, even if it is in the Wolverine movies where for the most part, he was just played as a silent idiot. So, I will say, I have always been of the belief

that if you get a guy whose specialty is melee against someone who can attack him from a range, it's not going to go in his favor. So I will lean Exodus simply for the fact that if Sabretooth can't get close,

Sabretooth isn't going to win the fight. And it doesn't matter if his healing factor is involved at all. He could just always be kept at a distance. Correct. Now it turns into the game now is... Chance.

When we spin the wheel, is it always going to land on the one instead of the two? The first two times we did, I was the one, coincidentally, they both landed on me. This time John is the one. So if it lands on John,

then we're like, well, every time we spin the wheel now, or it's always going to land on. Or if it lands on you, it always is going to land on Dylan. That would be three in a row. Those are the, two games were played. It's either going to land on the one out of the two

or it's just going to land on me all the time. So are you ready to spin? Yes. All right, here we go. Oh, this is fun. This is going to be brilliant. Oh. All right. Landed on me, not Dylan or John. I was the third factor. It didn't do either of the things

we wanted to do. I didn't do either of the things, which just proved that it is still a wheel of random chance. So that means... Well, that was fun. Anyway. Exodus does advance past Sabretooth. Now the question is he's going to go up against either perpetual thorn in the side of the Incredible Hulk

Emil Blonsky, aka the Abomination, versus the Juggernaut. And what else can you say? It's the juggernaut, bitch. What does Abominating do other than being really strong? I mean, he's kind of, I guess, durable as well. like, you know, he can absorb a lot of punishment.

He's got a weird face. Yeah, he's got those weird sort of fin things on his side of his head. Kind of cool, maybe, you know. He doesn't have a cool helmet, though. No, that's a mark against him. He doesn't have, like, a baby version of him that we invented for the show. Nope. He's not unstoppable as well.

Exactly. You know? Never played by Vinnie Jones. As far as we're aware. Yeah, officially on the films. Mm-hmm. So, you know, when you start adding stuff up like this, doesn't seem like a great resume for Abomination right there, does it?

No. I think, you know, Jogunot, he draws power from, like, Citarack. as well, like a whole kind of demon entity. So he's pretty souped up when it comes to power. And like, yeah, just unstoppability, I guess, as well. Like, he's the juggernaut for a reason. So I agree. I went to Marvel's website, and they have little bios for each of their characters.

And he'd give kind of like ranking scores. for their stats. So we're going to do just a side-by-side comparison between the two, because it does seem like this isn't going to go, this is going to go one way or the other. So it could just come down to the numbers. So when it comes to energy, basically the ability to emit some sort of like laser or power beam or whatever,

both abomination and juggernaut come out out of one, meaning that they do not produce that kind of range ability. is to the surprise of no one at the juggernaut, he is seven out of seven for strength. It's good. Abomination is also seven out of seven for strength. Okay. When it comes to speed,

the juggernaut comes in at four out of seven, which is a slight advantage over abomination, who is at three out of seven. I wouldn't say the juggernaut was fast. He's faster than the abomination, it seems. It's not a good, that's not a good sign. I mean, it's also four out of seven, so it means he's just slightly faster than average. Yeah.

Yeah, but even then, like, the juggernaut, I would have said, like, because his whole thing is like he's, like, you know, nothing can stop the juggernaut, but like, it's not like he's running that fast, is he? I guess he's running sort of fast, though. I mean, he's got the potential to it. He's got to build up some momentum to be able to smash through stuff. Well, that's the thing. thing he does the thing we're like you know

once he starts moving he can't stop him but like he's not running like you know 50 miles an hour no he's not like quick silver or anything no yeah just a big dude runs of a normal speed that's their speed that's our speed ratings

when it comes to intelligence the juggernauts at two out of seven bit of a dumb dumb um abomination slightly slightly more intelligent with three out of seven. Okay. We've got fighting skills now.

Juggernaut comes in three out of seven. He's a brawler. He doesn't need to know how to fight because he hits you real hard, which coincidentally enough makes him a slightly better fighter than Abomination who's at two out of seven for that same reason. Now here's the stat that I think is the deciding factor. We both note that there's seven out of seven when it comes to strength. When it comes to durability, however, Abomination is six out of seven.

juggernaut 7 out of 7 Oh He's more durable The juggerna is more durable than abomination Even though they apparently are similar When he comes to strength So really the only edge

That either of them have Is juggernauts a better fighter But only slightly And he's slightly faster And a little more durable But abomination is slightly more Intelligence which I don't think factors in really.

No, not in this fight. This is a fight between the dumdums. This is a dumb dumb war. So I am going to hazard a gas and say this is our first unanimous vote in that we see the juggernaut moving past abomination. Well, it should be. He's like our little mascot for the show. His son is. Go for the big red dum dum dumm rather than the big green dum dum dum.

There we go. Yeah. Speaking of green dumbums are people who are not dumb but are actually. very smart but also green. John, John, you better calm down. Don't kill him just yet, John. I know he called the Green Galdon

a dumb dumb, but please. Yeah, I'm not happy about this. He's raging. No, he's one of the smartest scientist. No, he's a dumb dumb. We've got in our next round. In our next fight, we've got

Dr. Octopus, super intelligent Spider-Man villain against the Green Gobble. Super intelligent Spider-Man villain. Did you look at it? Did you mean Dr. Octopus was the dumb-dum? Because he wore, like, the green. They both were green.

Yeah. So they're both dumb-dums? Yeah, they're both dumb-dums. Because they both fight Spider-Man. Doctor Octopus? Doctor Octopus? Is a dumb-dum? Yeah.

Listen, man, if you've got enough patience, you can get through a PhD program. You can outlast people. Right. It's a little, but I, you have, have to have some level of intelligence to be able to go through all that. I'm sure. Regardless, our next fight is between Dr. Octopus and the Green Goblin.

Both of them are well-known Spider-Man villains. Both of them have spent stints acting as Spider-Man for all intents and purposes. One of them, however, was able to take over shield and rebrand it to hammer to, not hammer. Was it sword? No, it wasn't sword. They were hammer. No, it was hammer.

It was hammer. Yeah. I always just think, like, why would they name it after Justin Hammer? But, oh, well. They didn't. But regardless. That was a coincidence. It certainly was.

Regardless, we have got Dr. Octopus versus the Green Goblin. You guys are both Spider-Man fans, so take it away. John, he should start. You go first. Okay. So it's been no secret on this show that John is a very, very big Green Goblin fan. But I am a very, I think this has been on the show as well. I'm a very, very big Dr. Octopus fan.

I, um, yeah. So this could, um, this could cause the breakup of the podcast. Ha, ha, ha, ha. Even though I saved Magneto in the first round. I want that on record. Um, but I, I, all, by the way, John, I saved Magneto. So whenever we get the carnage, let's, you know,

we'll see about that it depends on this rind goes doesn't it yep let's see how long my luck can play out for I always find I mean obviously

if you're talking about the Green Goblin you know it's very hard to find a better Spider-Man villain which is why I'm a little annoyed much like the Magneto thing

I'm a little annoyed that they've just turned them into like a good guy now because you're like that's not what the character is for that's not what the purpose is. The purpose is that there's such a great foil to the character that if he

if you turn them then you lose a lot of that charm and the fun. Like you think about what Green Goblin has done to Peter Parker and then the other comes long and he's like oh I'm good now you know if I was Peter Parker I'd be like there's not a fucking chance that I'm going to believe this yeah yeah. After 50

years of you kicking me in the dick. Well, and you also killed my first real girlfriend. That also is going to, that's a grudge. Well, then you can say the same sort of thing for Dr. Octopus, though, because he's basically been Spider-Man taken over and tried to be a better Spider-Man than Spider-Man himself, despite the fact that he killed Gwen Stacy's dad back in the day. True. The two of them are great at killing Stacey's.

Yeah. Yeah. Which is, I also think that, like, in terms of, like you said, John, there is a real level of pride to be taken. And the fact that Dr. Octopus became Spider-Man and, like, arguably did a better job of being Spider-Man than Spider-Man did. Well, you say that, though. Well. You did a better job until he came up against the Green Goblin. It was exactly.

And then he got the, he had the fear put it into him. and he was like, oh no, I have to get Peter Parker back because only he can't know he can't. He had to concede that he couldn't beat Norman Osborne. Well, so what are we talking about then? That's game over.

You've set up with the debate. That is kind of what I was like leading towards is that as great as the Dr. activist bit was it all came around to him like he very rarely acknowledged his own failures

or his own weak spots. But at that point, he was like, I've done, and to be far, like, taking over Spider-Man's body is something Norman Osborne could never have done, or becoming a better Spider-Man. The Spider-Man is something Norman Osborne could never have done. But fighting Norman Osborne is something that, historically, Dr. Octopus has never been super-adapt at.

so if the argument is who is better having Spider-Man beat them up you know because that's the argument really um Dr. Octopus had to get Spider-Man to beat him up

so I guess in terms of what we're talking about John is probably correct in that Dr. Octopus realized he couldn't be Norman Osborne. I was smart enough to realize that. So this is one of the few things where we actually have seen this play out.

And the winner was, in that specific term, the winner was the Green Goblin. So to put something into perspective for you, I do have those same kind of stats for Dr. Octopus in Green Goblin. If you just want to see what's the difference between

them. Yeah, if you want to ignore the 10 minutes we just talk. No, no. It's not ignoring. It's more of a supplement. Thank you. Okay. It's to supplement the conversation and maybe give you something to think about in a different perspective. So when it comes to energy ratings, again, the ability to generate like some sort of an energy blast from your hands or eyes or what have you. Dr. Octopus is at a 1, meaning that he does not do that at all. And the Green Goblin is at 3. So he has an advantage when it comes to that.

Strength-wise, Dr. Octopus has an advantage at 5 versus the Green Goblins 4 due to the arms. That is nonsense. Well, no, that's the goblin's theorem. It's the arms. They're factoring in the arms. Obviously, without the arms, Dr. Octopus, is just a regular fat. He's a fat, old, gnarly-looking dude.

Yeah. And we know what that means in this show. But if that was the fight, obviously Norman Osborne has the advantage of hands down, but it's the arms. If he's fighting with the arms against the goblin, you know, that's a closer fight. I still think Norman Osborne probably has it.

But those arms are very powerful. So I will tell you that when it comes to speed, they are dead even at three. So I don't know if that. that's factoring the goblin glider and the arms doing what they're doing. Intelligence, and I feel like this is where it's going to get controversial for you guys. And again, this is Marvel.com. This is the Marvel comic source.

This is not Comic Vine or CBR or any fan voted thing. This is what Marvel has put out there with their chest out. They have stated that a green goblin has an intelligence of four, and Dr. Octopus has an intelligence of five. He's a doctor. He's a smarter. He's not Dr. Goblin. Again, it's nonsense.

And I feel like this is where we're going to run into another one when it comes to fighting skills. The Green Goblin is at three when it comes to his hand-to-hand abilities, whereas Dr. Octopuses at four. What? I don't know about that either. That doesn't sound right. Were they drunk when they wrote this? And the final one is durability, which was this was what kind of sealed it for Abomination versus Juggernaut if we weren't leaning towards a juggernaut anyway. We have Dr. Octopus at 2 and the Green Goblin at 4. So Goblin is way more durable than octopus.

So Octopus may have... Four. Yes. He may have more... He came back from the dead and he got four? Again, this is Marvel Comics. This is their website. This is not fan-voted.

But they read their own comics? What the... No, they didn't. This is like some interns job. You know this. Four? He got a paled by a goblin glider and went back to work. Listen, I mean, if it's baseline, like, one is like what a normal human would be, then, yeah, four is not that bad.

You know, it's not seven, which is what Juggernaut was. Like, again, that's four out of seven. It is slightly, it's slightly above average. But, yeah, it's not like a five or six. Dr. Octopus, what was his two? Two. Even that, like, that used to be a thing in the old comic. was like if he turn off his arms

he's just a normal fat dude he doesn't have any durability there was the storyline where he was basically taken so many hits over the years that his body completely failed on him as well which is yeah yeah you know what inspired him to you know take over

Peter's body and become the superior spider man in the first place I to be fair I love that run because it did a lot of great stuff for Dr. Octavis as a character you know you really were like well he is ever real villain. What a piece of shit.

Wonderful stuff, man. See, that's why I'm so I really want to go with Dr. Octavis because I love him so much. Well, I think that realistically, like numbers-wise, if we're being, if we're looking at things properly, the way we should do, no bias,

no anything like that, it's probably the Green Goblin, right? I think this is very close, but I think you're probably talking about the Green Goblin. Not necessarily going up the numbers, that Marvel give us, which I think we can agree, are fucking stupid. Yep. But I'm probably going to have to swing towards Green Goblin.

Okay. John, what do you think? Well, you know, I love Doggopterus as well, but I think Green Goblin may have swung it for me because of the fact he's way better. Well, that's controversial. He's smoking because he's made better. I mean, this is one of the things where I don't necessarily feel like I have a dog in the fight. I would probably prefer to read more Green Goblin stuff. I think the Osborne family is fascinating.

Harry Osborne is low-key, one of my favorite supporting characters in general. Like, I loved him in the animated series. And one of my, I've said it before, like the storyline where he was slowly turning into the goblin that McFarlane was doing the art for back in the 90s is one of my favorite. so yeah no i'm i'm inclined to go green goblin and we'll make this our second consecutive even unanimous decision by putting the green goblin advancing into the next round is that fair yeah i think that's another one where they kind of got screwed by the bracket yeah all right up next we have one of the champions of the scroll empire with the ability of all the Fantastic Four, the Super Scroll,

versus the serial killer symbiate carnage. Dylan, I have the stats for this one as well, and I feel like you will enjoy them. Yeah. So before we get into that, I would love for you guys just to kind of give me your first impressions of Super Scroll versus Carnage. Okay.

Let's go... I'm not going to go like Super Scroll. recent carnage because I don't know a whole lot about it and I also don't like it. So, let's go with like, you know, a more classic carnage, but

he is a vicious, ruthless killer who has been gifted the power of the symbiotes and he uses his abilities in a much more interesting way than Venom does. So he can like turn his hands

into weapons and like fire them off away from him and like move his body and tendrils and stuff. So he uses his body to create as much carnage as, if you will, as he can. He's a very ruthless character. Super Scroll obviously has been bred to be like the best kind of soldier that there is in scrolls. But also, he seems to get his dick kicked in with a Fantastic Four like all the time. I mean there are four of them though

That's true There's only one carnage That's true And also I will say this Historically one of the weaknesses Of a symbiote is fire And Super Squirrel would have the power of fire Indeed

So that's something you should have to factor it You know That's very true I think if it came down to it Like pine for pine right who wants to kill the other one more i think carnage would want to kill super scroll more that's what i think john what are your thoughts i mean i think this is going to be a tough one for carnage because like you say super squirrel's got the uh the um human torches like firepower uh he's also got

like mr fantastic stretching as well so part of carnage's deal is like, you know, like you say, turning his symbia into like blades basically and stabbing people and slicing and dice in them. But if he can't do that because Super Scarl is just too stretchy to slice and dice, then that is going to, you know, make it pretty hard for him to beat him. Here's the thing, right? because I think that, like I said, one of the things I think is correct

is that Carnage wants to kill Super Scroll more than Super Scroll wants to kill Carnage. I think that if your entire deal is just ruthlessly killing people and you're very good at that, I feel that like, just from like pure, relentless, like, aggression, carnage would probably wear down Super Scroll. But I also think as well that Super Squirrel kind of, was made the Super Scroll and given all of the Fantastic Force powers

because he was like a pretty good soldier in the first place and like he's quite tactical quite you know uh clued in when it comes to like fighting people so the fact that he's got those kind of ring spots that he can kind of rely on I don't know if that's going to give Carnage an edge, really. Well, can I counterpoint that and say that the beauty of Carnage is that he doesn't have any of that stuff?

He's just a regular, like, psychopath. He's not dabbling in tactics or, you know, strategies or anything like that. He's just a guy that loves fucking stuff up. And in terms of that, like, not when he's just hard to plan strategy against that kind of guy, but it's also hard to plan like a defense against that because you don't know what he's going to do. I think the thing that I think the thing that's getting neglected is the Super Scroll is a, like, trained soldier representing the Skull Empire. I mean, he's not just a guy who got powers. I mean, he is military trained by a race of people that are constantly at war.

Right, but that's what I'm saying is that I don't think that military tactics matter when you fight a guy like carnage. No, I think what I mean? What I think is it makes him a, if it makes carnage weaker at combat than it would him. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Like, yeah, he's going to be more unpredictable, but he's also undisciplined. Right, that's correct. Yes, I agree with that. Would you like me to compare their numbers based off the marvel.com?

I mean, you're going to do it anyway, right? Well, I wasn't, if you didn't want to do it, we wouldn't do it, Dylan. Yes, you would. No, I wouldn't. I would. I respect your opinion. It's too much. I would. I respect your opinion way too much.

No, I don't think you think. Dylan, I respect your opinion. Regardless, when it comes to their energy ratings, Carnage comes out at four out of seven. But as you mentioned, Super Scroll can generate force fields and also throw fire that gives him an advantage at six out of seven when it comes to energy projections. Strength, they're very close.

Super scroll is at six, carnages at five. Speed is our first one where they're dead even at three each. Intelligence and fighting skills, I think, were the two that I was the most interested in. So intelligence,

carnages at two, and Super Scrolls at three. And fighting skills, Carnage is at two and Super Scrolls at four. So there's that, that, you know, military training versus kind of unhinged serial killer. And then, of course, the final stat is durability, where Carnage comes in at five out of seven, and the Super Scroll comes in at six out of seven. Wow.

Marble.com are really stuck in the Super Scrolls dick on this cage. Well, I was just thinking, like, when it comes to durability, like he can stretch, he can turn invisible, generate force fields, and he can also make his body, like, into fucking rocks. I mean, I will say for Carnage, he got ripped in half by the century and still came back, so he's pretty durable as well. It's true.

And you go ripped and half in space. Yeah. That's hard to come back from. It's kind of amazing they came up with a bullshit reason to do that for that reason. Like, we're a stretched carnage's ability on this one, aren't we? That still worked. All right. So where are we,

where are we leading though, guys? It seems like we're going to go to the wheel because I, you know, despite my own biases or whatever, I still really do think Carnage would be the winner. Okay. So I'm going with Carnage. John?

I am going to go for the Super Scroll. I will also be going for the Super Scroll. So, Dylan, we will see if your luck when the odds are against you stays in your favor. I have a feeling on this occasion. Probably not. No.

So that would be me. That's a shame. Carnage will not be advancing into the next round. Instead, meeting the Green Goblin will be the Super Scroll. Well, I saved Magdito and the Green Goblin. Yeah. Mm-hmm. The Carnage goes out the first time?

All right, well. Up next, we have the Mad Titan, Thanos, Mr. Obsessed with Death Itself, and then also the prodigy of Hank Pym that hates humanity, Ultron.

Thoughts out the gates. I mean, one's a robot and one isn't. That is an excellent thought to have. Thank you. What's the next bracket? Yeah. I think listen, as much of a threat as Ultron has been

in terms of to the Avengers and to the Earth and stuff like that like Thanos has been a threat to like multiverse, the universe, the fucking, like, you know,

many different planets, many different species and races and stuff like this. You know, this one... I think technically Ultron has gone into space and threatened other planets and stuff as well. So...

Yeah, Ultron has... degree that Thanos has. Xonnos has fucked stuff up consistently you know to a grand scale. I think this is another one where the brackets

kind of heard it because against a lot of people Ultron is like the clear winner but I think when we come down to this this is something we were talking about when we were coming up with the brackets is the power levels of people like how ridiculous do we want

to go. Yeah. and Thanos is probably one of those guys. We would be wrong to not put him on the list, but we're also kind of got our hands tied in that he's going to probably also do really well in the tournament because he's fucking Thanos. The problem is that we didn't factor in was this fucking wheel, so there's a good chance.

He loses to like Cassandra Nova or whatever the fuck, you know what you mean? Yeah. Yeah. Well, John, do you have any further thoughts? I mean, let's face it. It feels like Thanos is going to be pretty tough to be. Yeah. Like, give Ultron some credit.

Like, I think his body is made out of vibranium, which makes him, like, you sort of tough and he's got like the whole AI intelligence as well which who knows maybe that could help him out in the fight against Thanos as well but

in terms of just like I guess raw power you know Thanos is just going to be pretty difficult to stop and yeah so I think that's why I'm probably leaning that way.

I'd actually like to see this fight in the comics. I'd love to see Thanos versus Ultron. Yeah. So I have all those stats. Thanos's stats are ridiculous. Just out. Ultron only outranks him in durability. Like John mentioned, Ultron is at 7 and

Thanos is at 6. But every other stat that is available leans very favorably in Thanos's behavior. so I mean I like Ultron I always love an evil robot especially one with personal grudges that goes to weird links to fuck with Hank Pim but

he doesn't have fuck him with Hank Pem he's a big fan Hank Pim was stuck in a half Ultron hybrid body for like several years until recently that's probably fine now he's yeah now he's back to normal but they made him old so that he was like Michael Douglas and wouldn't be in you know they wouldn't be as tempted to use other antmen fair enough so it

does seem like the answer here is thanos is that is that what i'm hearing i think so i mean that's the thing i like ultron too but like i said it's a tough bracket yeah i would go for thanos that works for me So, maybe we should spin the wheel. So our next fight is between the taskmaster. A villain who is able to recognize people's body language and with a photographic memory, once he's seen you fight, he now knows how to fight like you. Makes him very dangerous to deal with in a one-on-one occasion.

On the other is the world's oldest living mutant apocalypse, whose powers, I'm not even fucking sure what they are these days. So as As Dylan was mentioning This one is a little scuffed To say the least But let's hear your thoughts Well Apocalypse is another one of those

Meetings where they were just like Let's give him the power of all powers And then they're like We don't really know what that means When it comes to writing other stories about this guy So Apocalypse seems to be able to do a lot of different things I think his main power was really that he's very, like, strong and durable, and he can, like, transform his body. He doesn't really seem to do that anymore, but in the original stories, he used to be able to, like, transform his body, like, into his arm into a hammer or whatever.

Like, he was able to kind of manipulate his own. He did that in the TV show, didn't he, like, grew really tall? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, I don't think he does that very much anymore. But originally that was kind of his gimmick. And he also has acquired, to his ship, the power of the Celestials. He has experimented with that kind of power, which I think is their little catch-all to say he can do all sorts of stuff now because of the Celestials. And not really explain what that means.

But he has shown to have a range of different powers over the years. and he's his he's got a very long i don't know if it's immortality but he can he can exist for a long time so long as he rests for adequate periods of time although if his body destroyed he can with time if it's just like a drop of his own blood uh eventually reconstitute himself so he has a regenerative powers i suppose um he's got a lot stacked up on his favor, you know, and Taskmaster, God bless him, has the power to be able to match somebody's fighting style. But as we've just established, if it's not totally concrete what that fighting style may or may not consist of, that's already a tough task for Taskmaster to be able to replicate

that. Yeah, it's not like he's going to be able to replicate turning his, you know, arm into a giant hammer or whatever is it so right that's kind of tricky you know i think if this fight was to actually happen in the comics what would happen is taskmaster would just run away as far and as possible and probably not be seen again for a good while that's about right for tasso feels like it he yeah he's a coward at heart really and he knows he's

if he's in a fight he can't win he's not gonna push the issue yeah yeah I think if he knows he's gonna fight apocalypse he's just gonna be like I'm not I'm just better off not doing it yeah

yeah all right well so we'll have apocalypse move on I think that's appropriate so we're heading back up this is our next round matches They advanced in the first round. It's going to be Magneto versus Cassandra Nova.

We discussed this one a little bit. This one's personal due to Xavier being the common bond between the two of them. So you guys have at it. Who do you think's got the edge going into this fight? I mean, Magneto's got a helmet which blocks psychopathic powers. So, like, you know, that's, you know, strike one against Cassandra Nova. I don't think she's

invulnerable to magnetic powers, so that's strike two against Cassandra Nova, and Magneto's just better. So strike three, she's out. Well, to go to John's

point on point number three, I mean, as succinct and clear as that was, I would like to add a little bit more to Magneto is just better. in that Magneto has spent his entire life roughly by Charles Xavier

yeah he knows how to fight that guy if Cassandra Nova is a female analog to Charles Xavier Magneto would have some sort of answer that would probably correlate pretty well against Cassandra Noah

I think that while they both have a hatred for Charles Xavier. The fact that one of them is incredibly like Charles Xavier is a disadvantage for that person. Yeah. I think that as much as I love Cassandra Nova and I'm incredibly pleased that she made it further than the first round, I think we would have to say

Magneto. Yeah, you're not going to get an argument out of me for that. Magneto's been fighting a high-level telepathism entire adult life. He knows how to do it. He's, and I'm sure when we talked about Magneto's various powers when we were trying to kill Magneto several months ago, it came up like, oh yeah, he has also trained himself to block most psychic attacks because of just years of exposure to it, if nothing else. So yeah, I will say that that definitely leads to Magneto going into the next round. All right. Up next, we have. one of Magneto's biggest and most devout followers, Exodus,

against the juggernaut. Now, Dylan, in our last discussion with Exodus, going in his favor was the ability to not face a melee competitor head on. Is that still going in Exodus's favor against the unstoppable juggernaut? It feels like it, wouldn't it? Like, if you think about what... If you think about what the juggernaut is best known for, being a big strong guy that punches people a lot

an invulnerable strong guy well I don't think being a big strong guy the punch is really hard is necessarily going to win against Exodus I think you need a better implant than not plus his helmet protects him from like mental attacks as well

so something can be removed yeah but then Exodus would have to get in close and then in close quarters, that kind of works in Jokin'aut's favor as well. He doesn't have to get in close. I think he could find a way to open up that helmet without getting too close. He is a master at telekinesis.

He could find a way to Jimmy open that helmet without getting too close. Maybe. I don't know. I think if you're looking at stuff like that, again, it's kind of like the saber-tooth thing. The saber-tooth thing, Deer-tooth is a great close. range hand-to-hand combat kind of guy I think the juggernaut's very similar like his his raw strength and power is his advantage but that doesn't always necessarily win in a fight I think that um exodus probably has um an advantage in that in that respect I kind of disagree I think I thought would Jaggernaut is

like I say he's nigh and invulnerable to like any of those sort of long range attacks that Exodus can throw at him so I think that would frustrate Exodus

I think Exodus would have to come in close and then once it gets to that point I don't think he's a match for Juggernaut when it comes to you know, straight up yeah

like fighting prowess yeah I think straight up 100% juggernaut like if they're just fighting throwing fists but I don't think it would get to that point well we'll see I guess we're going to have to spin that wheel

but what matters is what part of the wheel is Corey on I think I'm on the spin again option Okay. Yeah, I think so. This is going to be a shootout between the two. Just like always. Except for those times where it's me and John against you.

Oh, yes. All right. The lands on John, me the Juggernaut, will advance past Exodus. I think it's a shame we didn't get Exodus versus Magneto because I think that's some long-term booking. But also, I would like the Juggernaud, obviously. He's a mascot for the show.

So, you know, I don't hate it. All right. Well, up again, we have Green Goblin, who advanced past Dr. Octopus in a Who Hated Peter Parker More contest. And up against him, advancing past Carnage, The Super Scroll. Both are green, both have 20 years.

Who do we got? Green Goblin. Okay. John, do you want to, like, take a little second to think about all of the possibilities? I took a second. Do you want to take two seconds? No.

Okay. Yep. Bring goblin. That was a couple of seconds. To be fair, that was a couple of seconds. He molded over. He also has those little ghost things. Do you remember?

Does he still use them? Ghost things? Yeah, he used to have these little, they were just like little ghosts. I think they exploded as well. I don't remember what they did, but they were just a little like. Jackalander had those. know that Osborne has. No, I'll get them.

Yeah, yeah, 100%. I'll find it. I'll find it. I'll put it in the, in the, in the shadow. But, um, I think, I think we're all pretty confident that this is green goblin, right? Of course. I mean, personally, I think that the Super Scroll could overpower the Green Goblin.

Um, I think the only thing that Goblin has going for him in an advantage would be a higher level of intelligence than the Super Scroll. but again, I think Marvel.com actually had them both rated the same amount. So an Earth genius knows about as much as the average scroll is what that is saying. I don't think that's true. I mean, regardless, I see in a fight,

I don't see Super Scroll necessarily winning this. I think that Goblin is too clever. Whereas Carnage not really known for his cleverness, I think the Super Scroll could be outthinked. And I think if anyone's going to be able to do that, with a lethal edge to it, that would be Norman Osborne.

Okay, so. So we're just going to advance Green Goblin on. I mean, we were always going to. Indeed. All right. Up next, though, this one could be a bit sickier. We have

Thanos, the Mad Titan, the man who attempted to court death, and Apocalypse, the first mutant who has been able to turn people into the mutant embodiment of death. So, what are your

thoughts on Apocalypse versus Thanos? This is another tough one. Mm-hmm. Like, in terms of raw power, they're both pretty similar, I would say. Like, maybe Thanos has

a slight edge. But, you know, I don't think there's going to be that much in it. I agree. I think that like they actually match up

really well. We were talking about how hard it would be to find somebody that could actually fight Thanos, toe to toe. Apocalypse is a pretty good show.

You know, I feel like, one thing I do like about a lot of Apocalypse's appearances is that he isn't a free to like get his hands dirty

and have a fight with people. He will jump in and fight. So I could see Thanos versus Apocalypse having a scrap for sure. So I will say this. I have gone back to Marvel.com's rankings, are their power ratings,

and I think this would surprise you both. So when it comes to the ability to generate energy weapons, we've got six for Thanos against seven for Apocalypse. Strength, they're tied, seven to seven. Speed, they're tied, seven to seven. Fighters skills. fighting skills Apocalypse 7

Thanos 4 Really Intelligence Apocalypse 7 Thanos 6 Whoa And then the last one's durability And both of them are equal at 6

I mean it sounds like Marvel.com I've swayed our hand for us I mean, the Apocalypse has, is, according to their own metrics, he is near perfect, aside from one level of durability. Wow. Jesus. But then, like, I don't know. Apocalypse is more just like an earth-based villain, whereas Thanos has been, like, a cosmic threat to the entire galaxy, basically, over the years. It really says what Apocalypse could accomplish if he changed his priorities.

Yeah, I guess. Because you're right. They want different ends of the spectrum. Apocalypse is all about the continuing the survival of his people, whereas Thanos is about death. So they've never really clashed before, but they've never been in the same arena to have done it. I actually think Apocalypse versus Thanos would be a fascinating, like, philosophical thing. So what you're saying is. is that apocalypse really should,

in order to preserve the mutant race, expand into space. And they tried that with O'Rocco, or re-enhabiting Mars. Okay, so now he's getting, he's, ah. He's dipping his toes in the water. Yeah, he's encroaching on, we're laying the seeds for a feud.

Yeah. You see this? Okay. You know what? I was already torn in this one, but I really like Apocalypse, so yeah, I'm just going to go with Apocalypse.

I'm going to go for Apocalypse as well. I'm going to go for Thanos just to kind of give us a way of spin, but it's so close between the two of them. It is very close. This is another one where we don't mind who really goes through because they're both pretty good. All right, let's spin it.

Damn. Apocalypse. Wow. is going to go into the next round. Again, we'd like to remind everybody home, we are not an X-Men podcast. Even though I mean two or three out of... Oh, three of the four.

Wow. So our final four, making it, we have one match. We have Magneto versus the Juggernaut. And in the second match, we have the Green Goblin versus Apocalypse. So let's start with the top word. Wow.

Who do we got? Wow. versus the juggernaut. Magneto. This is like John can't lose. A lot of John's saves are on this list. Corey, I think that there is a way that John could lose. Put creative gas.

That goddamn wheel will screw us. It screwed us before. It'll screw us again. In terms of Magneto versus Juggernaut, I would say. probably be McNato, right? I would say Megito as well.

I mean, yeah. He can construct a prison for the juggernaut that yes, he could break out of it eventually, but it would take time.

He could also put him in a little electromagnetic bubble and put him into space. He'll survive because he's the juggernaut, but you can't really get

traction if you're floating in zero Gs. Mm-hmm. We just happy clean sweep? I'm happy with clean sweep. Yeah. I mean,

I felt like this is going to happen. at one point. So we've got going on into our quarterfinal that will decide the semifinal Magneto. But up next, we have the green goblin, Norman Osborne, versus Apocalypse. Apocalypse had to get through Thanos, probably his toughest matchup to face the green goblin who got past Dr. Octopus and the Super Scroll. Yeah.

Do we think that Norman Osborne's luck can get him past of Apocalypse? I feel like he's out of his weight class. I would say one out of three of us think that for sure. But the trick is trying to find out which of the one. That will ultimately cause us to spin the wheel. Wow. I mean, have we ever seen Apocalypse? like eat a pumpkin bomb before what kind of damage that would do to him no we just don't know

do you think it would damage him I think it would absolutely wreck his shit I mean technically yeah I agree his shits would not be good if you get a pumpkin bomb that would that can't be good for your stomach you know so it's two votes for Green Goblin then no I don't think so. I think you kind of jumped a little bit there. Intentionally. I don't appreciate that. I don't know why you really wanted to be Magneto versus Green Goblin

because then you're going to have to make that choice. I know. It's going to be horrible. But if we make it easy for you in the final, you won't have to make that horrible choice. I think you're just going to try and put Apocalypse over Magneto though, so... Oh, yeah. Well, I'm putting Apocalypse over Green Goblin

right now. So it sounds like we're spinning a wheel then, because that's two for Apocalypse and one for Green Goblin. Okay, so me and Corey are both for Apocalypse, yeah. I feel like this is out of Norman's out of his weight class. He's pretty good, but I don't know if he can pull that one off. Here we go. We're about to find out, and the way of our luck goes. Oh, all right.

Hey, man, we're not a two-in-five. No, again, we are not an X-Men podcast. But our finals are set. Magneto versus Apocalypse. Not only will this person represent the Marvel villains moving into our final four of the whole tournament, but they will be facing the Scarlet Witch in their next round. So, a lot of story there with Magneto. but it's magneto versus apocalypse what are we thinking

Apocalypse versus Scarletwich might be a frown fresh interesting matchup would I don't know so would Magneto against what he once thought was his daughter well that's what Corey was saying and the storyline's already there yeah there is a lot of stuff there but maybe we've seen this too many times we tread that crying too many times maybe we want something new and fresh and different you know with a big heavy hitter like Apocalypse

No I don't think so I thought I had you there I really did I think this is one where like Apocalypse having like the celestial technology and like his armor and stuff

it's probably going to work against him because Magneto can manipulate that and kind of you know turn it against him maybe. We don't know if that's metal. It looks pretty metallic to me.

We don't know if the celestial material that they use is like an analog to human metal that can be manipulated by Magneto. If it's from like, he can manipulate you know, metal and magnetism on Earth, sure. But like if it's from the stars, is that the same can he can he you know does this still translate it the same way

or is it just so like the same token he could manipulate it even more oh yeah it's either this one or the complete opposite yeah if we're getting into hypotheticals who knows you know what he mean though

like I don't I don't think that the celestial material is what you would call metal so I don't know if he would be able to like manipulate it Right, that does make sense, right? No. Okay, Corey, that makes sense, right? Sure.

Thank you. I don't feel like your heart was in it, but we'll move on. I don't know. So you don't know, Dylan. What do you think? I think Apocalypse is a winner here, and I think the reason for that is Magneto is the kind of person people have to team up with to face Apocalypse. and if you got to team up with Magneto,

it means that he can't do the job on his own either. That's interesting. It's interesting. I don't think it's ever happened, though, in comics, has it? Magneo team never with someone to take on Apocalypse. Have Magneto and Apocalypse ever fought? I'm trying to rack my brain. I can't think of a single example of them going up against each other before.

No, I can't. Yeah, I can't think of it like off the top of my head. I'm sure there must have been. But like I feel like again, maybe they just intentionally kept those two heels away from each other on purpose to potentially lead to a wrestling media match that may or may not happen. I think the only time you saw it was during age of apocalypse. Right. But that doesn't con it because it was different. Exactly.

Different timeline. Just on like, I would say apocalypse. right off that's what I would say I want to say apocalypse Corey's gonna say apocalypse John is undecided I am saying Magneto oh okay interesting so we're gonna have to spin the wheel we'll have to spin the wheel I'm trying to see if I could find people online discussing this and it is discussed pretty frequently what are the what are the people

say it seems pretty split wow to get pedantic about it oh god damn it so with the spin of the wheel that means magneto does not advance and representing the villain's side of the Marvel bracket feels appropriate it's Apocalypse so Apocalypse will be moving on to face Scarlet Witch when we get down to our final four yes yeah that here Hero bracket was crazy. Yeah, yeah. I feel like that one, we had a lot more unanimous decisions on this one than we did the hero one for sure.

Yeah. Like I said, when I looked at those stats comparing Apocalypse versus Thanos, I was surprised at how much more weighted they were to Apocalypse than that. Yeah. That is surprising. To be honest, I am not taking too much stock in those. stats because it sounded like a whole lot of them were just yeah made up made up yeah i mean norman osborne and green goblin their stats for intelligence particularly were criminal

like four out of seven you're like we need four out of seven but the durability one think was the craziest one yeah yeah but it has been decided guys that going on to need to scarlet witch on the Marvel end of the bracket will be Apocalypse. So the next time we jump back to this, we'll be starting the DC comic sides of things, which will be interesting for me because you guys aren't as well read on your DC Comics characters. And I'm curious to see how some of those decisions will work out for you.

I would say a lot of that's just going to be us going, yeah, whatever you think, Corey. Yeah. Well, before we wrap up, is there any final thoughts on the Marvel villains bracket and how it turned out? I actually think that turned out really well in terms of like a proper bracket. I think that the first one we did was very unpredictable and crazy and a lot of weird shit happened. Whereas in this one, I think that like a lot of it played out in a much more logical manner. Yeah.

Like let's be totally fair. Magneto versus Apocalypse is a great final. and that could be a coin flip any day. Like, it could easily be Magneto and any other point. So I think, like, I feel like we got that one more right than the hero one, which was like a bell to bell tree. Yeah. Our final four, our final four were rogue Captain Marvel, the Scarlet Witch and Wolverine.

Ladies night. Yep. Ladies night. It was a female Wolverine, so it kind of kinds. Yeah, Laura Kinney. So, John, what your movie count at? I am now up to 1,1132 movies for the year so far. It's insane.

Absolutely insane. How much you get done. Wait a minute. Is this episode going up in 2025 or 226? No, this will be going out in 2006. So this is not the 2026 year end yet. Uh-oh. It'll be fine.

We did this last year too. Okay, fair enough. Wow, John, you watched a thousand films in like two days? Yeah. Wow. Just can't stop me. So, John, what was the last thing you watched? The last thing I watched was a thing called Wild Thing, which was basically like an urban take on Tarzan, where this kid watches his parents die and then manages to escape from the sort of drug lord who killed them.

And then he gets taken under the wing of like this crazy homeless lady. then she dies and then he basically becomes like a superhero like living on the rooftops and swooping down to save people in uh i think it's new york more basically just a big city um and then yeah he ends up clashing with the uh the drug dealer guy who killed his parents and uh yeah saving the day basically Batman? It's not far off Batman. It's like if Batman was really poor rather than really rich.

Well, there you go. Wow. It's only different. So, on Monday nights, I do a radio show. It's on Bounce DigitalRadio.com. UK, you can listen to it in your browser. You can listen to it anywhere in the world.

So long as it's at 9 o'clock, UK time. You can listen to my show. play all sorts of like grunge music and heavy music and just stuff that I like to listen to. So we're going to be playing. What are we going to play? Red Hot Chili Peppers. Elliot Smith, Rural Jam, App the Drive-In, Beck, Motorhead, Tool,

something that with pilots, all this stuff and more on the show, Bounce Digital Radio.coma. UK. And I sometimes stream on Twitch at Spookilaroo and where you draw pictures. And I animate those pictures and put them on YouTube at Team Crows. And I. So feel free to subscribe to all that crap if you want to. That would be nice. There you go.

I got stuff too. It's in the description. So I haven't gotten around to doing it. I'm still taking some time to figure out what direction I want to go with things. But my old stuff is there in the, in the description. I have Largel Cup, which is my sort of stream of consciousness podcast.

And then I have Henry's usual, which is a kind of a weird letter story thing I've been kind of playing around with. but until next time we'll see you guys later goodbye goodbye bye bye is that micdino that was magnito that was micnito