The Smark Avengers - Thanos & Doctor Doom Lead Marvel’s Villain Army! | DC vs Marvel Tournament Pt. 2

Episode Date: October 10, 2025

💥 It’s time for the villains to rise! In this week’s episode of the Smark Avengers, Corey, Dylan, and Jon continue building the ultimate DC vs. Marvel Tournament — and this round, it’s all about Marvel’s most dangerous villains. From Thanos and Doctor Doom to Green Goblin, Mephisto, Onslaught, and Cassandra Nova, the guys debate, draft, and argue over which 16 villains will represent Team Marvel in the most chaotic crossover ever imagined. 🔥 Expect plenty of laughs, nerd debates, and wild deep cuts as the crew builds their dream (or nightmare) villain lineup. Who deserves a spot? Who gets snubbed? And can anyone stop Thanos from wrecking the bracket before it even begins? 🧠 In this episode: Drafting Marvel’s 16 greatest villains for the ultimate crossover tournament Debating power levels, legacy, and chaotic energy Comparing the likes of Doctor Doom, Thanos, Green Goblin, Mephisto, Onslaught, Cassandra Nova, and more Teasing next week’s DC Villains division ⚡️ Listen, laugh, and argue along with us! 👉 Subscribe for weekly deep dives into comics, superhero movies, and all things Marvel vs DC! 📢 Join the conversation: Who’s your #1 Marvel Villain? Drop your pick in the comments below — we’ll feature the best answers next episode! Click the link for Dylan's radio show!: http://www.bouncedigitalradio.co.uk Click the link for Dylan's Twitch stream: http://Twitch.tv/spookylaroux Click the link for Jon's Letterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/bigjonbowski/ Click the link for Corey's project "Henry's Usual": https://www.tumblr.com/henrysusual Click the link for Corey's show "Large Old Cup": https://open.spotify.com/show/2YHMppnl9inQevwLIxR64f

How ex-man. This is going to be a very X-Men Spider-Man heavy list, I have a feeling. 100%. So you need to balance it out with crossbones. Yeah, I'll figure. I'll start thinking about those issues of force works I read and go like, okay, who was in force works? Blizzard? Yeah.

Whiplash? Whirlwind? Hi, everybody. Welcome to Spark Avengers. My name's Corey with me is Dylan and John. There's a bit of a preview of today's episode. Last episode, we began. the process of creating our bracket to determine the winner between Marvel's mightiest hero and villains

and DC's mightiest heroes and villains, where we whittle down a list of 21 potential heroes to 16 to represent the Marvel hero side. Today, we'll be doing the exact same for the Marvel villain's side. So same rules as last time. What we're going to do is we're all going to take turns selecting villains. We're going to go until we have 21 picks, and then we'll begin the process of whittling that list of 21 down to 16. If you want to know who made the hero list, you can listen to the last episode because we are only going to be talking about villains at this point moving forward. Don't get it confused.

So is there anything else that I'm leaving out when it comes to this process? I don't think so. I think if you need to learn the rules, listen to the last episode that cleared everything up pretty well. Yes. And then this one. Listen to both episodes. And this is to all the other ones as well.

Yeah. Chances are we're going to be talking about Magneto. So you're going to want to listen to the two episodes about Magneto that we did. I don't know if a magneto will turn up. We'll have to see. We'll have to see. I will proposition this, though. I think that the order should be reversed in picking.

So I think it should go, John, you, and then me, because John was the last pick last time. Okay. I'm happy with that. Okay. But then Dylan gets the second pick again. I'm probably with that. What difference is the second? I don't know.

Anyway, if that's the case, Dylan, would you like to start us off with your first villain selection? No, I thought John was going for us. I just said this. I don't know. I'm all confused now. Are they black? You've been blacked. I'm like black Tom Cassidy.

There you go. John, who is your first pick? I know you're all expecting me to say Magneo, but I'm going to say the green goblin. Okay. Because it's Norman Osborne, and Norman Osborne is the greatest villain in the Marvel universe. Wow. That's had some hype preys. He killed Gwen Stacy, of course.

He's clearly he forgot about Adrian, but whatever. Yeah, I can't imagine anyone's going to disagree. with you. Yeah, I think this is, again, there's going to be a bunch where we're like, that's a lock. Yeah. That's it. You know, I don't think anybody's going to be like, Green Goblin, what did he do? Like, fucking 50 years of shit.

That's a bad faith argument. He's pretty good. Yeah, everybody knows he's Green Goblin, Norman. Even when he was Norman Osborne, he was a prick. You know what you mean? So, like, a lot. I don't know what they're doing with him now. Is he so gold, but like, I don't think that matters.

because I don't think... I believe... Is he? Well, I think he's supposed to be filling in for Spider-Man at the moment as Spider-Man. And Ben Wiley is also... Like, he's basically taken over Peter Parker's life as well, because Peter's been zapped off planet onto some other world or something. So they're basically finging in for his life.

Can the man not... Can the man not just stop? a bank robbery I mean I missed those days like if you were like if you were like going to be Peter Parker at a coffee shop for dinner and Norman Osborne don't up and he's like hey guys it's me Peter Parker you'd be like that's how he slept with you yeah you get 30 years older and have a different look and voice do you say do you haircut why do you look like Tommy Lee Jones yeah what What? Are you okay?

Yes, of course. It's me, Peter Parker. I've always been the way that you see me right now, whichever way that is. It's me, Peter Parker. I do all the Peter Parker things. For example, this, it doesn't be yo-yo trick. Well, that is Peter Parker because Peter Parker loves your yos. So that's it. There you go.

I think we've bumped a great problem enough, right? I think it's a lock. All right. I guess, Dylan, that makes it your turn. My, I think, is also a lock in Dr. Octopus. I think if you're talking about the greatest Spider-Man villains, it's one of two, and it's either the Green Goblin or it's Dr. Octopus. Those two are high, high up in the upper echelons of not just like Spider-Man villains,

but like Marvel villains. I think Dr. Octopus is a, it's a shame he hasn't done more crossover. He's a guy that, like, could fight other villains or other heroes, I mean. because he is very good. And he also became Spider-Man for a brief period, but did it by actually becoming Spider-Man. That's how you do it, Osborne. I'm about to say.

Norman's supposed to be in his like 40s or 50s, and as somebody who's approaching their 40s, my flexibility is not anywhere near where it used to be. I cannot imagine he's striking those Todd McFarlane poses very easily. Imagine Dr. Octopus, who's so old that he, like, died. Then he came back. It was old and fat and then he died.

Imagine me it's so old that you die, Corey. Everybody knows that the proper way to die. Never mind. I'm not going to go there. It's about to make another off-f-low-up-up. All right. Anyway, Dr. Octopus. I can't.

I can't imagine anyone's going to disagree with Dr. Octopus. Maybe that he's so high on the list? Of course not. I feel like there's some other heavy users before Doc Ock. Yeah, I would probably say so, but I can understand why then we'll go for him. Because I mean, my... Not much higher. I mean, my choice is Dr. Doom, and I feel like that's the most obvious choice.

Yeah, that was going to be my next one. I mean, as doctors go. I mean, he's a doctor of Doom, you know? How much more villainous can one get? His PhD's in Dumarie. What if you were a doctor of octopuses? I think it's a marine biologist. Octopi?

Yeah. Yeah. So, whatever. All right. I feel like, okay, again, with Dr. Doom, I mean, this is a man who is a thirst for power. He has achieved godhood more times than anyone can count. He has altered reality.

he has flirted with the side of being a hero in the sense of like he does well for Latvaria and he has like a weird moral code but I mean you know magic science his own goddamn country what what else can one have aside from a healthy relationship with their mother which he is severely lacking and he also became Spider-Man as well what is that true I don't he was about I was just continuing the joke about I don't know. Can I tell you it's scary how that seems

so fucking likely though that we both went, what? To be fair, so many people have been Spider-Man and I'm like, we were like, Nightcrawler was Spider-Man

not that long ago. Yeah. You know? Oh, dear. A lot of people went to my one. All right, well, John, it is now your pick.

Let me just keep coming up with villains that happened. Spider-Man. Magneto. Magneto was Spider-R-Man. He was Spider-Man. Yep. Yep.

I remember that. Do I need to speak about Magneto? I don't think so. I think we spoke what Magneto and on. I think we have like a two-hour-long episode where we do that. And if you want to know how to kill him, we have another... If you want to know how to kill him, we have an hour-long episode about that, too. He's fucking Magneto.

You know, that's it. That's what you really need. He had his own asteroid. I've never had an asteroid Exactly You're not Magneto No None of us are

Never will be We're hopper hopper just move on I think we're good with Magneto I think he's in the bank, yeah All right I I'm going to go with Somebody that Corey mentioned earlier

So I'm going to steal one of your picks I'm going to go with Apocalypse because again X-Men villain when you think about how powerful he is and how much stuff he can do,

could do, he had his own age, for example. And we know these days if you have your own age, you're big time. Yeah. But like he,

I always really liked Apocalypse. I wish there's loads of stuff you could do with him. I know it got really sticky at some point where people were like, what the fuck are his powers? Like,

you know, they do everything? Like, what's going on here? I'm still not 100% sure. I wish they would finesse that a little bit more, but I always really liked Apocalypse as a villain. I remember they had that action figure

where you can make his legs, arms, and torso a little longer. I assume there's a little more power's than just that. A little bit. Yeah. I think he can, like, change his body into, like, different things as well. And, like, grow and stuff. So I guess maybe his power is to do with matter manipulation. Matter manipulation or something.

Yeah. Yeah. Who knows? It is like celestial, access to celestial technology, which they use the catch-all to say you can do all sorts of situations. Yeah. Are we happy enough of the apocalypse?

I can't, yes, are you against apocalypse? All right. I'm going to go with everybody's favorite genocidal robot Ultron. Ultron is AI gone wrong mixed with daddy issues and some Edipal complexes as well Speaking of people who had an age Ultron I had an age So here we go there's your argument there And also Ultron has had a lot of upgrades he's been able to duplicate his body multiple times

You either have your own age or you become Spider-Man Those are the two rules of being a villain. Age of Spider-Man. Yeah. Spider-Man, whenever Doctor Doom was Spider-Man. Whenever we become writers at Marvel, that's a little teaser of what we're going to be able to do. Lord will help them.

We'll help them. We'll help them make loads of money with our great ideas. Baby Juggernaut. Yeah. Hyderman. Marvel's Tiger Man. all hydermine all the time but yeah any thoughts on ultron

I think that's a solid pick I have no arguments with Ultron I think he's a really good villain you can see you can do a lot of good stuff with him you know and he's believable as like a big top tier villain you know so

I dig it cool hell yeah John we are back to you okay I will go Thanos Yep Like he

He basically killed half the universe So I'd say He's probably killed most of the guys Who's gonna end up on this list And on the The hero's list as well already So Good luck beating him

He has to experience Yeah But how well could he deal with a man That throws cards at him I was going to say we might find out Domino might just get lucky I hope so

Oh I've Domino beats Thanos It's gonna be an awkward It's gonna be an awkward time for Death if Deadpool and Thanos end up in the finals against each other Or in the semifinals against each other Yeah Well I think that she knows who to pick

You don't know who to pick Killing both There you go It's an armor she knows what she likes okay dylan you are up next i can't imagine anyone's going to disagree with thanos no i'm i'm happy with thanos yep um speaking of i'm gonna pick somebody that i'm sure we're all three of us are happy with

and there'll be no arguments whatsoever it's obviously carnage uh carnage is amazing again i don't really care much for the more recent uh carnage stuff but like years ago, what a villain. If you're talking pure villain, Carnage is a guy that couldn't give a fuck

about anybody or anything. Not even himself. He's just all about like pure violence and Carnage and chaos. His whole mantra is just chaos. That's all he wants to do. I'm like,

well, that's what I loved the most about Carnage was that whenever they brought in venom, they tried to do this anti-hero. He's got like, is you good guys,

a bad guy? Yeah, shades of gray, whatever. And it was so refreshing to have a bad guy that just was just bad. Like, just a hundred percent bad, like a horrible, awful villain. A murderer who was gleeful about it was just, would kill anybody. You know, was just a real piece of work. So I think if you're talking villains, like pure fucking villains, no shades of gray, no dicking around, just a horrible person. carnage is right in the list, right?

What do you mean? Yep, yep, I would agree. Yeah. Yay. If we had to have one symbion on the list, I would be fine with it being carnage and Venom just not making the tournament.

Venom, by now, Venom's more of a hero or an anti-hero than him. It's certainly more of a hero. I mean, for God's sake, it's very Jane right now, you know. But even then, like, when it was Eddie Brock,

he was more of a hero than a villain. And then you have to get You get into like shitty like well does scorpion count Does Flash count? Yeah Just Mary Jean cut? I don't know That's I think we would do

They just pick like with You know some of the other ones You just like Wolverine You pick one You pick Eddie Brock You don't pick all the other ones And it doesn't matter We're not picking venom

Yep We're picking whatever Well are we picking the The Cletus carnage or we picking the Eddie Brock Carnage? Pimp cane and hat Eddie Eddie Carnage.

We're very clearly picky in Cleas Cassidy. Okay. John, that means it is your turn. No, it's your turn. Oh, it is. Okay, sorry. I got the last order wrong. If that's

the case, I'm going to pick the literal fucking devil and go with Bethesto. Is Bethesto too powerful, though? Is the question? Well, okay. Look at it like this. If you had Mefesto versus the Green Goblin. Who would win the Green Goblin? So Yeah, because I feel like

we run to that tricky territory. Like if it's too powerful, because you've already put Thanos on the list. But then like, are we going with Thanos? If he has the infinity gauntlet, that's one thing. If it's just Thanos, that's another thing. I think if you think about who's more evil, Mepesto, the literal devil, or

Norman Osborne, I would say probably Norman Osborne. I mean, DeVosso. my knowledge, he hasn't tricked Peter Parker into thinking that he slept with Gwen Stacy or whatever the fuck that storyline was. Yeah. If you think about all of the weird, like, the Mephastu just made his wife forget that he was his wife or whatever. Like, the Norman Osborne fucking stole his child.

Norman Osborne is a fucking off. That, by the way, is bizarre that now they have like, or Norman Osborne's friends with Peter Parker. Yeah. After decades of fucking him about, like, you got to be fucking kidding. It doesn't make any, yeah, it seems like Peter Parker is really willing to forgive. Oh man, this thing that, like, gave me trauma for years where he killed my girlfriend? Nah, it's cool. That's old Norby.

He made my fucking Aunt May. He made, I thought my aunt May died and it was just a plan by Norman Osborne to just fuck with me for 20 years. No reason. Anyway. Yeah. No reason. How do you feel about Festo, though? I think as a villain in Marvel, I get it because he is a big villain in Marvel.

The problem I have with that is, like, he isn't, he's one of those Nick Gray guys, so you're like, you can't use him all the time because the answer is just Mephaestor wins. So I suspect that might be a factor later on, but I understand what you picked him. Okay. Yeah. So we'll keep him on the list. That way, you know, when it comes time for eliminations, we'll see what happens. Yeah.

Okay, nice John's turn. Okay. Well, we had one killer, remorseless and violent and sadistic. So why not have another? I'm going to go for Sabretooth. Oh. Okay. I'm good with Victor.

Obviously, he's like been Wolverines for a lot. long time and fucked with him not just physically but like psychologically as well yeah I think he'd be a pretty pretty dangerous person to throw in the mix here I agree

like he's like again like that pure anger and violence like that psychopathic like again like a brawler but like with no conscience to him that could like stop him from hurting people he's just going to go all out and fuck

up just because he can fuck you up you know um-hmm uh saber dude is a great pick great pick i think yeah i like super t yeah it's a good pick all right dillon i believe we're all on board with saibb it sounds like it so it's up to you now okay listen i don't want to turn this into the x-men bracket but i'm gonna go with exodus uh one of my favorite uh x-man villains who i think just doesn't get enough it's the good story Alliance. I think he's such a weird and wonderful character you can do an awful lot with.

You know, he's immensely powerful. But he's also very, I'm going to say, like, easy to, like, emotionally manipulate. You know, he's, he's, like, at some point he was so loyal to Magneto that it's very easy to, like, play with that.

It's very easy to kind of work with his more emotional side, I think. So he has, has weaknesses for sure but on the like pure power side and of like not quite like Nick Gray but like that kind of like he's an incredible telepath and telekinetic he is like incredibly incredibly strong very powerful it's a lot of uh kind of powers that we haven't really

seen so much on this list up to this point you know nobody really has that kind of telepathic, telekinetic, um, edge to them on the villains. I think Exodus has that really big edge to him that nobody else has at the moment. So I'm going to pick Exodus. He had a sick action figure in the 90s as well. He's super cool, you know?

What do you think, John? Yeah, I got no complaints there. He was, uh, one of the few, like, um finding characters in the crocoa stuff i thought like his uh like stories arcs and stuff were pretty cool becoming like obsessed with hope being the messiah and things like that so uh yeah i dig the exodus as a character and i think he's got all the uh power set and skills and stuff to to you know be a good name in the mix here

Are you on board? Okay. Yes, I am. For my next pick, I don't want this turn to the X-Men bracket, but I'm going to say Fabian Cortez. No. I do appreciate the fact that Cortez had the balls to fuck with Magneto, considering what his power set was. No, my pick's going to be a little weirder. Just because, again, I'm trying to think outside the box.

Like, what is somebody who has abilities that is. outside the regular realm. And I'm also going to try to leave the world of X-Men and Spider-Men to you guys. I'm going to go with Dr. Arnhemzola. Evil Nazi geneticist creates monsters as well as being, you know, obviously okay with doing wherever the fuck it is he did to his body that basically put his conscience into a robot television screen in his belly. Yeah.

I don't like necessarily putting Nazis on the list because I feel like there's a lot of that going on in the world. these days, but if I had to, if I had to only pick one Nazi, I'm going to go to Dr. Arnhemzola, because again, kind of gives that mad, evil scientist vibe. And, uh, you know, you can just set up, he can just create a bunch of doughboys, you know? Also, he's not a real Nazi. He's not, he doesn't exist. He's not real. Yeah. So, okay. Fictional Nazis are fine. Yeah, I was thinking, like, if I could only, if I was only going to pick one, it was it going to be the red skull, who's of course more iconic, or was I going to pick Arnhem Zola?

And I feel like Red Skull's more deal as, like, leading behind people, manipulating stuff, you know, putting chest pieces on the board, whereas Dr. Arnizola is going to make a bunch of fucking monsters, and I think that's infinitely more fun. Yeah.

I don't think Red Skull could, like, handle himself in a fight against a lot of these guys, whereas, I mean, at least Arnhzola, he could send all of his little beasty things out. Yeah, he's sending an army out. fight for him. Yeah.

He's buying himself time by putting bodies on the way. Okay. I dig it. My go? Yes. I'll just go for like a big old fashion bruiser and say abomination. Just a big scary monster, extremely powerful, who will take great pleasure in fucking you up.

Fair enough. Again, like the kind of Hulk mentality, you need somebody that is just like a big fruit, you know? Yeah. And we haven't really seen that kind of like, like maybe Carnage because he's quite like straight up street level kind of thing. Yeah. Like he'll fight in a fist fight. But yeah, the other ones like, yeah, I think Abomination is an interesting choice. You could call.

I'm on board. Okay. Same. so that would be you Dylan happy enough yeah I'm I want to pick Taskmaster good

I think Taskmaster is a great villain because you know he studies everybody that he fights and you know that he's not to study the good guys

he's studying the bad guys too you know that he's got files on how to kill everybody so I think that's a fun interesting matchup even if it ends up like steel mates all the time you can imagine

can you imagine taskmaster growing up against Thanos? What would happen there? Nobody's ever done that, but like, could work. Can I say my favorite thing? Because he would know how to... My favorite thing about Taskmaster is that he's also smart enough to know when not to fight.

In the most, one of the more recent Moonnight comics, he, they basically these vampires put out a hit on Moonnight and Taskmaster visited them. And he's like, hey, I'm going to tell you, I'm not accepting this contract. I'm just telling you, like, I wouldn't fuck around Moon Knight. The guy's crazy. I don't like fighting him. I fought him before. I'm not crazy about it. I would recommend staying away.

Yeah. Like, that's smart. He's a smart dude. He's very clever. Smart dude. Yeah. That's what I like about it. There's a lot of stuff you can do with Taskmaster.

They really like. There was a shame that he died. Taskmaster died so early in the Thunderwaltzville. You're like, that's not really what Taskmaster is about. Yeah. But whatever. It is what it is. And this is our list.

So I'm going to pick Taskmaster. Okay. So there you go. I think it's a good pick, though. Thank you. My pick, I feel like it's weird that we waited this long to get to him, considering he was the OG Avengers villain. Loki.

God of Mischief, he has tend to lean more on the gray side more often than not these days. But magic, sorcery, manipulation, he's not going to fight you directly. He's going to try to. to get you from behind, essentially. So that's my pick. He loves that. Master manipulator Loki. That's, I mean, it's hard to argue with.

Loki's a very good villain. Yeah. You know, a trickster, God, like, how do you mess with that? And because he's a god, like, that's hard to, most people to fight, you know? Plus, he's like a magic user as well, and we don't have that many, if any, at all. this list, so I guess I'm a bit of an edge. Yeah, Dr. Doom is pretty much the only other one. You could make the same. Festo, yeah. But I mean, like, is that, would you call divinity or, you know, demonic abilities magic? It's, that's, you know, I don't know what else you would call it, but

that's, it's supernatural, but does that classify themselves as magic? I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's, yeah, Loki's a good thing, yeah. All right, John? I go Mr. Sinister, the original and the best, and we'll ignore all the other clones of him. But yeah, he's a pretty devious evil stun of a gun. He's got, like, you know, a massive database of people's, you know, like, DNA and genes and stuff so he could create clones of anyone basically and send them out to do his bidding in the same way Arnhem Zola can create his monsters as well

and yeah he's like a pretty tough and durable just on his own as well so I'd say Mr. Finister is a good choice I think so yeah yeah I think he's a good like Axeman villain Right there in the middle. Yeah, he's awful sinister, that man. He's awful mister. You know, he is definitely a mister, except that time whenever he was a miss. Yeah.

Hey, man, that's the kind of guy he is or isn't. Hey, Loki, Loki joined him right there with that too, you know. Every now and then you got to step out of your comfort zone. So many villains you just make him into a woman, this problem solved. I mean. Lady Scorpion? There's so many. There was a lady scorpion, wasn't there?

It was the lady scorpion. Yeah, it was what to say. There was a lady Electro. The lady, Dr. Octavut. There was a lady yellow jacket, but she was more on the hero's side. Anyway, regardless. There's a lot. There's a lot.

Lady Boomerang, I think, wasn't her? What's that? Did I make that up? Oh, I'm going to make that up. There's a lady Craven. his door. There wasn't it. Yes, there was.

Yeah. Oh, Craven's a good pick, though. Am I go? I believe it is your go. It is your go. Because Craven me a great pick. I only have two more picks. Would I pick Craven?

You what I'm going to do? I'm going to give myself some breathing room because I know I have one more pick after this. I'm going to make a pick of someone that I think is a great villain so that I have time to think of my other villain. Okay. And I also have time for it's a big craven if you want to.

I'm going to go with Cassandra Nova because as villains go, she killed 16 million people. So try to beat that. She is fucking nightmare. She is like Charles Xavier, but bad. She is just a... blight on she just existed to fuck over

Charles Xavier and everything he loved which included the X-Men she couldn't even fuck about anything or anybody else she was thus there to be a nightmare also she was in Deadpool and Wolverine which was a lovely surprise to me to see Cassandra Nova

on screen I didn't think that she would be there wonderful I think she's another villain that like there's loads of shit you can do with her and I don't think she's been proper explored tonight. I think Grant Morrison, because he invented her,

just went ball to the wall, as he often does, just fucking went nuts with a character. And nobody's been able to quite get that spark back again. But I think Cassandra Nova is a great,

great villain. So, no, I think that's, what do you think? I mean, she might be, she's definitely one of the most deadly. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

And it's like an evil charge Xavier, so you're like, well, we've already established what kind of a dick he is, but he's also immensely powerful. So like Cassandra Nova is that, but exploring that whole dickish side of him, you know. So a lot of potential. Mm-hmm. All right, Corey? Yep, I'm good.

I'm trying to, like, I'm trying to think villains that would have a chance. Like, someone who is powerful and like, but see, I'm also giving myself the limitations of, I'm trying not to go into the world of Spider-Man and X-Men, because I think you guys are going to get that covered and, like, trying to think broader across the rest of the Marvel Comics line. And I am just kind of struggling on that. Huh? Cross-boats?

No. Cross-box. I guess I'm just going to go back on my word, and, I mean, I'm going to go with Juggernaut. Even though he's a hero right now, I'm going to go Juggernaut. because we were talking about that that sort of brute force juggernaut doesn't need tactics he's just going to go forward

I mean that's just it he just goes forward anything in his way he's going through not over not under but through and he can also hold a fucking grudge true I think that

I think that the juggernaut's one of those guys you're like it's weird to see him as a hero because he's good as a villain. So good. Like, he's, he's perfect as a villain.

To make him a good guy is just, it's, it just, it seems like a wist. I have yet. So he's so angry. I like what, I like his portrayal in the Jed McKay X-Men, but I still have yet to see an argument that validates why he's there. Like, I've seen like, oh, the mutants accept me. And, you know, me and my brother, we're like, we're okay now. But it's like, still not a mutant, man. I don't know what to tell you.

It feels weird that you're here. Especially because there's like so many other characters that could fill that gap, you know, of like, oh, we just need a really strong guy there. And, you know, Colossus is there, you know. His sister's already on the team. Strong guy. Strong guy. I think I think they established that Strong guy and Madrox are roadies for Dazzler right now because why the fuck not. Well, Strong guy used to be a rodee.

Yeah, I think that's why they went back is that strong guy. guy and madrocks are roadies oh well uh but yeah they've done to our boys so yeah that is uh that is my pick and it is juggernaut so these are our last picks okay is john what is your last pick and i i've got my picks my picks good uh i think i'm going to go for someone who's a maybe a bit out of left field okay i don't think you guys would expect me to go for, but I'm going to go for the Super Scroll. Oh, he basically has the powers of all four members of the Fantastic Four. So he's, like, pretty powerful in his own right.

And yeah, he should be able to take care of some business. I think it's a good pick when you think about it. No, does Super Scroll still maintain the other abilities of being a scroll? Like, he's still able to shape shift. He just has those in addition to being able to shape shift. I can't remember. I believe, though, but I can't remember either. I think so, because that's why he's a super scroll.

Yeah, right? Yeah, he's still a scroll, but then he's going to... Yeah, he can turn of fire. There you go. Super. Yeah. That's, I'm going to say, that's another, like, left field pick, but also when you think about it, you're like...

Okay. That makes sense. He's very powerful. Like, like, if the Fantastic Four are a great group together, is how their pars work imagine one guy with all the pars plus the scroll bars it takes sense

you know you dig it I'm on board are you doing this is your last pick my last pick I was thinking about it for a while and I was like should I pick

Craven I was very close to pick in the kingpin because it's a different kind of villain but then I thought you know what there's nobody on this list there really has like water-beas powers

do you mean yeah or somebody that could manipulate water or like be water be made out of water you know

it's just something I noticed and I think that maybe at some point we should rectify that okay my pick maybe this is left field maybe this is just me being me me being a little controversial here

my pick is Onslaught Okay I like the I like the bait switch What do you guys think I was going to say Um Onslaught as a villain capped like

Almost all of Marvel heroes at bay For a long time He beat the shit out of the X-Men He is the combined for of Professor Xavier's bitter

evilness or like repressed feelings and Magneto's more evil overt side combined into one

just immensely powerful being I think I haven't really been keeping up too much of the recent comics

I know they tried to bring Ornslop back a lot of times and it's one of those things where like it's diminishing

returns the whole point of Onslop was that it was that this huge moment this big crossover it all built up it led up it was a huge moment bring him back you need it to be as impactful because if it isn't then what's the point and i have a feeling that as they bring it back it becomes a what's the point thing but onslaught at his most powerful was an incredibly immensely

powerful thing that really did um keep most of the the marvel heroes at bay and was able to best to them very easily and so I think if you were just talking about raw power ons thought's pretty hard to beat to be right to beat now do you run into that risk of it being that that same like Nate gray level though like is it too powerful yeah that's what I worried about I think that also that's such a powerful villain that to not at least put him on the list yeah would be crazy so I think that he needs to be acknowledged at some point if we want to play fair and say he's maybe too powerful for this, fair enough.

But I also think to not put them in the way to be crazy. That makes sense. Makes sense. You need it done. All right. I'm good with Onslaught then just for the representation aspect of it. So my last pick is also going to be out of left field because it's a character I think we've only ever mentioned once or twice in the entire history of the show.

And it was from an episode that I don't think that, I think it was an episode that was one of our shortest episodes. And it was also an episode that didn't, I think it might have been one of the lower viewed episodes. But the character was there and he was represented. And of course I'm talking about the angel where the episode where we talked about Angel. And my last pick is going to be Cameron Hodge.

A character that is so... I was thinking about Cameron Hodge. A character who is so filled with hate that it keeps him alive somehow. Even though he is a mess. He made a deal with a demon. And he's this weird techno-organic massive monster that is able to just stick around like a bad penny. Now, do you think he could have a better arch nemesis than Angel? Probably.

You know, I feel like he drew the short straw on that one if he was going to pick someone to have a grudge with for all of time. But, I mean, even before that happened, I mean, the guy was a complete dickhead in that he, you know, rigged it up so that Angel had his wings amputated, you know? Like, it's kind of impressive how much of a dick he was before he even got powers. So, yeah, no, like you said, my last pick out of left field, I'm going Cameron Hodge. Just his dedication to being a hater. I was thinking about Cameron Hodge a few picks ago because I remember him just being, like, like, Like, just like an awful person, like an irredeemable villain, you know, which I love.

Like, I love having a real, just horrible person. Like I've said before, I don't like when they try to rehabilitate villains. I'm like, some people can just be horrible people. Cameron Hodge was one of those people. The stuff where he became, like, the technorganic, like, weird robot thing with his big head. His head was still human. but his body was not like some of the comics are just

horrific to look at it's one of those wonderful comic things where you're like oh you can only do this here he was just a fucking monster I think it's a great pick that's like it's a left field pick I don't think a lot of people would have picked that but I am on board with Cameron Hodge

like that a lot what is John thing John seems like he's on board 100% no for the question No reserves about it. Yeah. I mean, I'm not exactly a huge Cameron Hodge fan.

No. Yeah. I don't know. What he did, though, was pretty... Like, he took over Genosha and he made the Muteids. In Genosia, like, he did a lot of stuff and when it comes to, like, fucking over the X-Man. And, like, the 80s.

not just angel but like he fucked over the X-Man a lot so you don't see him too much anymore he made it his deal with like the demon was that he would become immortal

and so that's why every time they kill him he just kind of like finds a way to survive his head is still like alive you know the defining whole logic

um So he's a guy that, like, you know, if they brought him back and they could do something with him, but they don't really anymore. He might have been a product of his time, which is a shame. But for that time, he was a great villain. If you say so. All right. Well, that was our 21 villains. It's now time for us to whittle that down. So how that's going to work is we're going to go through each one by name.

And we're going to say, yay or nay. that is not unanimous, yay, goes into the maybe pile. If we get all the way through the list and we have more than 16 than anything in the maybe pile is automatically removed and we would go through the list again. Last time, however, we nailed it to be 16 exactly, so we did not have to worry about the maybe pile. So, will we have similar luck today? All right, well, first up, we have the green goblin, Norman Osborne.

I will say yay. Nah. I don't imagine, yeah. Obviously, yes, it's a good screen goblin. You heard that Cameron Hodge picked on. Yes, of course. He's like, wait, camera's Hodge. What a Norman Osborne ever do.

All right. Dr. Octopus, yay. Yep. Yep. Dr. Doom. Yay. Yep. Yes.

Magneto. Yay. Yep. Yes. Apocalypse. Yay. Yep. Ultron.

Yay. Yep. Yep. Thanos. Yay. Beans list. Give easy list. Yes.

Yes. Carnage. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. You, You.

Mepesto. Yes. This, I'm going to think about this. Okay. Mm-hmm. I think Mephastus one that I need to think about it.

Okay, do you want to put it on the maybe pile then? I'm going to say Mepesto in the maybe pile. Okay. Yeah. I would agree with that. I have to think about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree.

Sabretooth, yes. Yes. Yes. Exodus. Yes. Yes. Yes. Arnhem Zola.

Yes. I have to think of it that one, too. Okay. Do you want to put Zola on the maybe list then? Yeah. Yeah, I do. Okay. I'll say no to Zola.

The thing is, I'm going to say this, right? I think he is a villain. I think that obviously we should say as a Nazi, he is, like that's the most villainous you can be. Yes. You know? But I'm just thinking like, if you put Arnumzola against carnage, what's Zola going to do in a fight?

I mean, that's the thing is Arnizola's strengths are that, being a geneticist and creating a bunch of fucking monsters. It's kind of the same thing as like sinister. And most of his ability, most of his threat is the manipulation of things. But Sinister has stuff he can do. Zillowler doesn't fight. Sinister never holds up hand-to-hand, though.

I'm just saying he's not that far off. He's not that far off from Zola. I'm not, we're not at that point yet. We need to keep going with the list. This might be completely moot point. Abomination, yes. Yeah. Yes.

The taskmaster, yes. Yes. Yes. Loki, yes. Yes. Yes. Mr. Sinister. No.

Oh, because of their arms delicious? I'm just saying, we can now compare and contrast if we make it that far. You're saying either both go in or neither will go in. I'm saying if we're going to put a geneticist in, we need to compare the notes before we one. Sounds like you're saying neither of them go in. I would have said yes to Mr. Sinister for the record. Same here.

I would say yes as well. Yeah. We may not need to depending on how the rest of those list goes, though. Maybe pal for an eye. Cassandra Nova, yes. Yes. No. Oh.

The Juggernaut. Interesting. Yes. Yes. Super scroll. Yes. Yes. Yes.

On slot. Yes. Yes. No. Oh, you're a bad man. Cameron Hodge, yes. Yes. No.

Yep. Okay, Dylan, how many are we at that are in the clear for yes? 15. 15. Okay, so now we have to decide from all the maybes who's going in So here's here's here's the maids I'm gonna tell you the maybes and we've the whittled down one of these Mephisto Arnhemzola mr sinister Hisandra Nova onslaught or Cameron Hodge

Now let me like really quick I'm gonna throw this side okay if I'm looking at that list of us right if i'm looking at that list of villains i have to knock people off i'm gonna say i'm knocking off ardem zola i'm also knocking up mr sinister because of the whole genesis thing those two are a pair to me if you're knocking off one you're knocking up both i'm knocking off ardom zola mr sinister and cameron hodge just based on that list i love to carmahodge a lot

if i'm looking at that list i'm knocking those three off Cameron hodge she was my kind of penance pick where it was just a character i thought was really unique. I'm like, he ain't going to make the list, but at least I'm going to bring him up. It's an excuse to talk about him. So, for me, it would leave Mephisto, Cassandra Nova, or Onslaught. Have I looked at those three, honestly, the one I would pick as the big villain would be Onslaught. That's my pick. So you guys say you're six and put it down whatever way you want to put it. Okay. I would agree. I would agree with you, Dylan. I think we, I'm fine.

with those three being eliminated and we look at Mephesto on Slaughter Cassandra Nova. If I had to pick the three, or of those three, I want to lean towards Cassandra Nova because I think she brings a different power set than the others do. And I think she has a very, very firmly established body count. Yes. Okay. The John DeVos. I was a hundred percent going from Mepesto.

Okay. All right. So this is where we are. All right. So real quick, around the table, what's your argument for, for Onslaught, Dylan? I think that Onslaught is a villain that has a lot of like immense power to him, but obviously clearly has weaknesses to him. He was being able to take, he's not just like, oh, he's a fucking hell demon or, you know, he's, he's not exactly the same as Charles Xavier. like Sandinova is, I think that he is a mix between the bad points of both Magneto, who we've all rated very highly, and Charles Xavier.

So there's like immense evil in there, an immense power to him, but there's also a weakness that can be exploded. He's not just, the problem we have with Mepesto was that he was, how do you conquer that? I think with Onslaught, he's powerful enough that he's a huge, huge threat, but can still be countered at someone. point. He can be beaten. So I think that would make him make sense on a list like this.

I mean, I think you could beat Mephesto with the power of Christ, but, you know, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just a... Do any of these villains have the part of Christ in them? I'm just a believer. Maybe Exodus? X, oh, yeah, if anyone does. No. If anybody has some faith. My, my pick for

Cassandra Nova is, as you pointed out, Onslaught does have the functions of Cassandra Nova. of Xavier and of Magneto, but we already have Magneto on the list. So why would we have Magneto and a half, essentially? With Cassandra Nova, you have somebody who is, again, very motivated by their own personal fucking hatred for one person individual. She has a valid reason for fucking hating Xavier as much as she does, but that also,

you know, push her to essentially try to commit genocide. So I think Nova is someone who's unapologetically evil. I know that garbage marauders run that John just finished probably didn't do her any favors. That's why I figured. But yeah, no, that's my

thoughts on Cassandra Nova is, I think she brings a different power set and I think she's somebody who has shown to be absolutely ruthless when it comes to, you know, vengeance, essentially. Okay. I mean, you say, she brings a different power set, but

like we've already got like a Magneto, uh, in Magneto for Onslaught. We've already got like a world class telepath in Exodus in this. We don't need to Cassandra Nova. And in terms of body count as well, I think Mephesto has probably racked up more of a body count over the

millennia that he's been active anyway. He's a demon. Uh, and he's the literal devil. So, I mean, yeah. But how's the devil? The devil killed people. I'm sure he has. Did the devil kill people or does he get other people to do his work for him?

Well, that's the same. Sounded over and over responsible for $16 million. Well, she got the sentinel to kill them for her. Right, right. But like, did Mephastu do that? Or is he just like part of hell? It's just like Lord of Hell. Does he go out and do that stuff?

Does he make people do that stuff? Or does he just like weep the rewards of that? Well, and here's the thing, though. We have... The other issue is, well, my other issue with Mepesto is he doesn't, like, all these other villains are very clearly, like, outgoing villains. They're out. They'll go out and do this stuff for a reason. Festo never really seems like he's, he's never the one that is out there doing this thing.

You never look at downtown Manhattan and Mephto's caused a ruckus or whatever. Fester's always, like, somehow, yeah, that's never, he's never, like, he's never, like, he's never, like it like he's never doing that he's involved in thanks there's onslaught rod what he banks his onslaught rob he didn't need to rob any banks he's no need for money but you but like you know what he mean though like onsla took over like all of manhattan and then like just this just you stole the sentinel and stuff he was clearly causing trouble on purpose for a reason but like mefesto doesn't go out of his way to do that let's see people come to mefesto don't they I don't know he goes to people

He offers them deals Yeah So if I could point out something about Mepesto And it's something again we've established Really strongly on this show Misfesto can't keep control of hell to save his life He is constantly being deposed And having to get the throne back

So it's like he can't even You know reside over his own domain successfully Doesn't sound like a strong Fucking Aunt May beat him that's the thing you need someone with a flaw in them that uh you know so they're not all powerful and unstoppable and no one else in this bracket has a chance so what what is this flaw that aunt may could beat him he takes his eye off the ball every day i reckon i make it be

most of these guys on the list she's a tough old broad she took that in dr octopus if you know I'm talking about. She took that boat like a champion. All right. So what I'm going to say is I feel like everybody's kind of real light onslaught. Right? Yeah. People are not thinking onslaught. I'm going to say if it comes down to two, then my pick is Cassandra Nova.

I don't know if I'm the tiebreaker here, but like I think Cassandra Nova as a villain is more interesting than Mepesto. that's i think you know that's just the way i feel about it i think you can tell better stories i think you'd be more fun in this i do get what john saying and that you have a telepath in um exodus but i think cassandra nova just pure evil she's more evil in mefesto he's a fucking devil

i yeah i like cori mentioned i've uh like we just recently read the morodas run with Cassandra Nova in and that whole run stuck to ass and did nothing to make me a fan of Cassandra Nova or any of the characters involved in that. So I have a hard time. Oh, does that mean you don't like Kitty Pride anymore? That's... I mean, it's it's hurt. I a long time love Kitty Pride. So, yeah. Well, let me put it this way. That storyline you read made you not like Cassandra Nova. What did the one more day storyline make you feel about

Mefesto? Better? Worse. I mean Because to me did not help. Yeah, okay. That still doesn't put Cassandra Nova over Mefesto, I don't think.

Right, but I'm just trying to like, you know, put a counterpoint. I think this is going to be a sticky set. So I think if the issue is we can't pick between Mephisto and Cassandra Nova, we should just pick an onslaught. Problem solved. I mean,

I think the problem is I don't know if we're going to get a unanimous one on this one, so do we leave it to chance? Do you know what I think is really funny is that at the beginning of the last episode, Corey said there's three of us, there's no way it can be a tie. Yeah, I mean, that's... I mean, that's the thing.

I guess by that logic, then that would mean that Cassandra or Nova wins because two of us is on board and one of us isn't. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the hero, I mean, the hero bracket, we didn't run into that problem because we lucked out and we picked 16 exactly. This one, we only picked 15. So that divisiveness had to come in.

I mean, because think of it this way. When it comes time to actually work through the bracket itself, it's going to have to come down to, you know, majority vote. Yeah. Okay. I think that's the only way we can settle it then. We can stay here for a lot for Cassandra Nova, but like if everyone else says, then... We can settle it in the ring. What can I do about it?

In a tag team match against the Undertaker. Player? Seems like the way to go. All right, so Dylan, go ahead and run down our 16 villains who will be competing in quadrant two. Okay, so we've got the Green Goblin, Dr. Octopus. Dr. Dium, Magneto, Apocalypse, Ultron, Thanos, Carnage, Sabretooth, Exodus, Abomination, Pass Master, Loki, Sander Nova, the bit of controversy, Dogrenot, and the Super Scroll. Okay. Well, everyone, if you feel like there's some names that we left off there or is people we eliminated that maybe we shouldn't have, by all means, let us know in the comments about how wrongs. we are and how terrible we are.

Until then, though, John, I think now we can hear what your movie count is. I am up to 793 movies for the year so far. I was off by seven. I predicted 800. I was off by seven. John, what was your last one? It was a movie called The Balco Experiment, which was written. and produced, but not directed by James Gern,

about a bunch of office workers in an office who suddenly told that they have to start killing each other or else, like, Chip in the back of the head is going to kill them anyway. I remember that movie. I didn't watch it, but I remember seeing trailers for it and stuff. So this is like 2,000 when it came out? It was actually 2016. so about 10 years ago.

There you go. And now he's making Superman and having John Cena be an orgies. God bless you, James Gunn. Apparently, yeah. The Lord's work. What did you give the Belko experiment? I gave it four stars out of five.

Oh, wow. It's a glowing endorsement. I praise. To hear more about John's opinions on the Belko experiment and the other 792 movies he has watched so far in the year 2025, John, where can they find that?

They can go to Letterbox and find me at a big John Bowsky or one word. And Dylan, what do you get up to you during the week? Well, on Monday nights, I do a radio show that's on BontidigitalRadio.corduk.

Link should be in the description below. 9 o'clock to 11 o'clock on Monday nights UK time. You can listen to it wherever you want as long as you have that address in the browser. you can check it out. Played of rock music and metal and some pop stuff.

Like all sorts of weird music that some of the stuff you're familiar with and some of the stuff you've never heard before. I like to try and do a good mix so that you learn something. You hear something new and go, you know what? That's pretty cool, you know? And then I also stream sometimes on Twitch. I've been doing a lot of animating. That's at Spooky LaRue.

The link should be in the description. And trying to make some animations and cartoons and stuff that are going to go up online soon. I think there's one already out, and then we're going to make one very soon with the Joker. So the link, I think it's Team Crows on YouTube or Team Crow Studios or Team Crows in Northern Ireland.

And Crohn and I, we've been working through a lot of names because you ever come up with a name and they realize that somebody else has taken your name? It's difficult. So that should be the link in the description as well, if you want to check that out. I very much appreciate that. All right.

I have my other stuff. I have a podcast called Archel Cup, which is sort of just a show about whatever is going on at the time. And I also have a writing project called Henry's usual. The links for those are in the description, as well as links to our link tree,

which connects to all of our social media accounts. We're trying to be more active out there and getting the word out about us. So if you want to share that, by all means, please do. Until next time, we will be discussing the DC side of the bracket, which I feel might be a little harder for you guys for some reason. Yep. Yep.

Yep. That's going to be probably an easier one for me than the villains one was today. But until then, we will see you guys later. Goodbye. Goodbye. Bye-bye.