The Smark Avengers - The DC Heroes Bracket Gets Wild (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman)

Episode Date: January 30, 2026

The DC Heroes bracket reaches its explosive conclusion — and nothing goes the way you expect.In this episode, Corey, Dylan, and Jon finish the DC Comics Heroes side of the ongoing Smark Avengers Marvel vs DC Tournament, debating every matchup from the first round all the way to the final winner. Using comic lore, power scaling, and pure fandom logic… until the Wheel of Chaos throws everything into madness. ⚔️ Matchups include: Power Girl vs Lobo Green Arrow vs Superman Nightwing vs The Flash Batman vs Doctor Fate Aquaman vs Wonder Woman Who wins on strategy? Who dominates with raw power? And which fight gets completely overturned by chaos? If you love DC Comics, superhero debates, tournament brackets, and “who would win” arguments that spiral out of control, this episode is required viewing. 💬 Join the Debate Which DC hero should represent the universe in the finals? Did the Wheel of Chaos ruin everything—or make it better? Let us know in the comments! 👍 Like the video 🔔 Subscribe for more Marvel vs DC tournament episodes, comic breakdowns, and chaotic debatesClick the link for Dylan's radio show!: http://www.bouncedigitalradio.co.uk Click the link for Dylan's Twitch stream: http://Twitch.tv/spookylaroux Click the link for Jon's Letterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/bigjonbowski/ Click the link for Corey's project "Henry's Usual": https://www.tumblr.com/henrysusual Click the link for Corey's show "Large Old Cup": https://open.spotify.com/show/2YHMppnl9inQevwLIxR64f

You have to, like, dress nice, and you can only put so much, you only put so much lipstick on the pig before it becomes, you know, untenable. Yeah, you can still fuck it. That's the beginning of the show. You're speaking from experience? That's the beginning of the show. Hi, everybody. Welcome to Smart Avengers. My name's Corey with me is Dylan and John.

Guys, how's it going? Uh-oh. Good. Hi. I haven't fucked any pigs. Me neither. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. Guys, this is the first time we've actually met to record in like a couple of weeks.

How did the holidays treat you that have already been over for a month for those listening at home? I didn't sleep as much as I wanted to. That's unfortunate. Yeah, that's a worry of my life. Yeah, it's about it. Yeah, I'm not sleeping too much. I drank, I ate, and, you know, that was about it. Yeah.

Yeah. There you go. Well, today we are going to be continuing in our Marvel versus DC bracket tournament. So for those listening, this is like the sixth or seventh episode that we've done on this, where we've compiled the list of participants. We put them in our matches. And in the last two episodes, about a month ago, actually, we went through the Marvel Heroes bracket. And we went through the Marvel Villains bracket. So we know already in the final four representing Marvel,

we have Scarlet Witch representing the Marvel heroes, and we have Doctor, not Doctor, we have Apocalypse representing the Marvel villains. Dr. Apocalypse, please. Dr. Apocalypse is PhD in End of the World. So today, we're going to be going to the right side of the bracket to the D.C. side where we'll be working through the first round matchups all the way to determine who is going to be. representing the DC heroes. Any feelings, any thoughts on what we're going to do today?

I mean, we've done this before. I'm just devastated that Sonic the Hedgehog did make the cut. He was a contender. I don't think he was. I thought you all, you all said no to Sonic the Hedgehog. You're all very clear. We have to draw a line somewhere because then that would also put AEW wrestlers as applicable. homelander just showed up in the DCCO tournament that weird little doll from the Annabelle movies is there too

like we got to draw away what you're saying is all of those losers are on the same level of Sonic the Hedgehog and I'm saying Sonic the Hedgehog is much much higher in terms of status, talent, ability, longevity and Orange Cassidy. That's what I'm saying. Don't ever don't try to make them on this. Come on, Nye. No, I'm just, you know, I'm just saying the argument could be made. It'd be a terrible argument, but it could be made. I feel the car off point is a W comic, surely. That's the, all right.

I still can't believe there's going to be a two-issue mini-series, like just a two-issue mini-series. Have a one shot or have a four-issue. Don't have a two. Like, even the writers at DC, even Steve Orlando himself couldn't come up with fucking four issues for that. You'll probably see that, yeah, that they can't even do two issues early. We have to read.

Should we read it when it comes out? Oh, God, no. You can read it. There's a part of me that things you should do it. You can read it to us. You can read it to us. We'll just like the Charles cast. We'll each take on roles and we'll do a dramatic reading.

That's a reference. Very few people are going to get. Nobody's got it out. Oh, boy. Anyway. So how this is going to work? We're going to go through the matches. We're going to have person versus person.

We will kind of weigh our thoughts on who we think would win. If it is a unanimous decision, that person moves on. If it is not unanimous, we're going to take it to the wheel. The wheel has our names on it multiple times. We'll spin it, and whoever's name it lands on, it's their pick to win. That's how we keep upsets happening. That's how we keep Cinderella stories going on, and we make the thing a little less predictable. Case and point, how Scarlet Witch ended up winning for the Marvel Heroes side,

which I think surprised all of us. I mean, still a little strange. I feel like Apocalypse wasn't a bad choice for the Marvel villain side, though, right? I feel like that one was okay. I don't think he was the obvious choice, but yeah, I'm kind of happy with it. Yeah, I'm okay with that.

I'm a little bewildered. I mean, you know, but that's the wheel. That's what we do. So, are you guys ready to get this going for the DC Hero side? Sure. Yes. All right. We'll see you over on the spreadsheet. Not spreadsheet, but the bracket. As you can see, we are back to our bracket. You see we have Scarlet Witch over here and Apocalypse,

representing the Marvel side. We're going to move our way through this upper right-hand portion. So to get us started, we're going to have two characters, two characters that are a very big fan favorites, cult favorites in a lot of ways. And I'm going to go ahead and say, I think 2026 is going to be a big year for Lobo with Jason Mamoa playing him in the upcoming Supergirl movie. But that being said, we have the Zarnarian bounty hunter Lobo versus the Kryptonian Supergirl from Earth 2 Power Girl. Any thoughts immediately that come to mind for you when you think of Lobo versus Supergirl or Power Girl? What is Lobo do? all right well lobo like you said lobo's had a big period of time in the 80s and 90s

became a big fan favorite he was introduced in omega men number three in june in 1983 but his powers are he is functionally immortal he's superhuman strength he has a healing factor and considered and vulnerable uh let me go and go a little bit into his stuff so he is uh expert marksman in hand-to-hand combatant his his body can regenerate he has a genius level intellect and at one point he had the ability to duplicate and clone himself so if you made him bleed another version of him would come out of his blood what does that work yeah i think they undid it for that reason uh but yeah so lobo is a ruthless bounty hunter he has one rule once he takes a contract he finishes it no matter what even if it risks injury if he has a counter contract for even more money then he will drop that contract for it instead. So Lobo has done battle and gone hand-to-hand with Superman. He has done battle with Etrigan the Demon.

He is a morally gray character. He's, you know, on the side of devils and angels. So sometimes you see Lobo, and he's with you, and sometimes he's against you. In a recent Superman storyline where Brainiac basically did a mass takeover, Lobo was fighting with Superman until he found out that like Brainiac had actually kept some of his fellow Zarnarians alive and decided he was going to hang out with those guys instead because they were his family because Lobo is also the last of his kind. He's sort of an opposite of Superman. He's not morally good, but he's, you know, he's a Lobo. He's a bounty hunter. He's crude. He's fun.

Power Girl. on the opposite end is a kryptonian. So she's got all the perks of being a cryptonian. Superhuman strength, speed, durability, heat ray, ice breath, etc. She's a powerhouse, to say the least. She also has a bit of an attitude. You know, she's someone who kind of was stranded in a universe that doesn't really belong to her. So there's, you know, she coexists with Supergirl.

They're kind of odd sisters in a weird way. if you can be a sister with an older version of yourself from an opposite world. So yeah. Any thoughts, though, on Power Girl versus Lobo? Here's what I'm going to say. All right. Oh, this is going to be controversial or whatever.

Although most of my thoughts on these shows have been controversial. You said that Power Girl is kind of like, Superman? Yes. Mm-hmm. And Lobo has fought Superman. Yes. She is technically Superman's cousin, even though she is from a parallel earth.

She is still his cousin from that parallel earth on that earth that he is also And Lobo is fought Superman? Mm-hmm. Superman is presumably beaten Lobo. They have gone to a draw a few times, but yes, Superman has been able to beat Lobo.

usually low-go goes to extreme lengths in order to, you know, try to one-up Superman in sense of, like, putting other people in danger, putting innocence in danger, being more reckless and dangerous in general to kind of like put that stress on Superman where he's like having to choose between fighting the guy and also protecting civilians from collateral damage. I mean, he can go toe to toe with a Kryptonian and you will usually have a bit of an edge for that. reason is like lobo doesn't give a shit he's a biker from space for all intents purposes uh for mars no his planet is he a mouse yeah wow you guys had biker mice from mars in the uk i had no idea oh fucking rip dude everybody loved it you know there's a biker mice for mars well right now we should let we'll review that instead of the a w comic why did we put any of the biker mice from mars on this list well they're from a different publisher.

There's always a catch. Always a catch. I'm going to go with Power Girl. You're going to go with Power Girl. Okay. John, thoughts. I mean, I was leaning towards Lobo because

if he is basically immortal, then, like, how are you supposed to beat that? Like, if he can regenerate and take whatever Power Girls throwing at him,

surely there's only going to be one winner in that sort of fight. So, Lobo usually gets beaten because of boredom or taking another contract. Like, he doesn't get soundly defeated. He gets distracted, if anything else. Right. Don't you think

Parr Girl could find a way to distract Lobo? I'm sure he could. I'm sure she could. Without saying anything obvious. So, I am inclined to go, because we have another we have another, I think we have another crypto. Yeah, we definitely have another.

the Kryptonian on the board. For the sake of keeping it a little fresh, I will go Lobo on my end. Whatever. So Dylan's going to Power Girl. I'm going to go Lobo. John, where are you residing? I'm going to stick with Lobo. Okay.

Dylan, we're going to the wheel. Are you comfortable with this? The wheel has been both kind and unkind to you. I don't know if I'm comfortable with anything anymore. I'm good. All right, so our names are on here multiple times. Whoever it lands on, their pick will go. It looks like the wheel loves you today.

Powergirl is going to advance over Lobo. Oh, I'm going to vote against Batman's to see what happens. What I say? Yeah, Batman's on the list. All right, so our next matchup, we have the princess of Themyskira, Wonder Woman, and we have the king of Atlantis, Aquaman. Both of these founding members of the Justice League of America have worked together on and off for years. In the Flashpoint continuity, which was created when Barry Allen went back in time to prevent his mother from being murdered,

Wonder Woman and Aquaman had an arranged marriage that ended in a bloody war where Aquaman's concubine was murdered by he assumed to be Amazonians. and thus he uh the city the kingdom of atlantis declared war on paradise island and themaskiara so um you guys are familiar with wonder woman and we have talked at great length about aquaman in previous episodes which is weird to say um initial thoughts or is there any other information you would like to know about wonder woman and or aquaman is this current aquaman this is current aquaman as of right now now we talked a bit off off of, off mic, about how the DC-KO storyline that is going on, the rumor is that Aquaman is going to be the winner of that tournament and get a significant power boost and will be become a cosmic entity and will become Emperor Aquaman. However, at this time, that has not happened yet. Also, at this time, Aquaman does not have a magic hand. No, Aquaman doesn't have a magic hand. He has been learning water magic, though, and so he is able to do shit with water,

where previously he had to have a water hand to do it. Now he doesn't have to have the water can. He can just do it with his regular hands. Okay, I'm voting for Wonder Woman. Is that out of spite or? Yeah, a little bit. Like, and I know whoever the flashes up against is going to have an easy time as well.

Look, Wonder Woman, she's good. He gets people to tell the truth. And Aquaman talks to fish and doesn't have a magic hand. All right. I'll run through their power sense real quick. So Wonder Woman, Superhuman Strength, Speed, Stamina, Durability, Senses, Agility, Reflexes. Flight. She can, there's divine lightning manipulation in there.

She can absorb energy and project it through her bracelets. She has a level of magic. She is immune to most mind control, thanks apart to the Lasso of Troules. truth that she carries with her. She has super breath is bulletproof. She has tons of shit. She's half a... In most continuities these days, she's half a god.

Because they run with the idea that her father was actually Zeus and that she was not just a divine baby that was made out of clay, like the original, you know, stuff was. So yeah, heavy hitter all around. Also, trained warrior. That goes a long way as well. Aquaman, he is Atlantean hybrid, so he has superhuman strength, durability, speed, endurance, can breathe underwater, can swim super fast, he can manipulate and have telepathic control over aquatic life, as well as he has learned hydrokinesis, and he is skilled with a trident, as well as a military and tactical mindset from being a leader of men in Atlantis. So in a lot of ways, they do pair very well together as opponents. The question then is, again, Dylan is going Wonder Woman out of spite.

John, did anything I say sway you one direction or another? Well, I think the key thing to kind of make my decision is where is this fight taking place? As if it's on land, I think Wonder Woman has obviously got the edge due to all of her power set and everything but if it's in the ocean then i would say aquaman probably has the advantage so it's the yeah like i mean presumably this has taken place on land because uh you know it'd be pretty fucking weird if uh they're just starting a fight in the water like uh so i would say probably Wonder Woman is going to come out on top between these two. I am inclined to agree. Now, Aquaman has, like, his skill set does not diminish on land. The only thing

that impacts it is, it's kind of hard to summon aquatic life when you're on land, but he still has the strength and durability. I mean, he's functionally bulletproof just because his body is so used to the depths of the deep sea. But I am also inclined. I'm going to also go with Wonder Woman. on this one as well. I think when it comes to, like, hand-to-hand combat, I don't think there's really many people that can stand up to Wonder Woman. And I feel like that's going to be a continuous thing

in this tournament is if you're going to go against Wonder Woman, you're going to have to go against a very skilled warrior who is super strong and durable on top of it. So, no need to go to a wheel. We're going to have Wonder Woman advance past Aquaman. Up next, though, we have Nightwing, the original Boy Wonder Woman. the original Robin, skilled acrobat, detective, hand-to-hand combatant, up against the Flash,

and this one is the Wally West version, who is the fastest man alive. We have talked to great links about the Flash's powers and skill set. I will say that on the onset, this looks like a bit of a wash because Flash is a speedster. He can literally run so fast. He can go back in fucking time. The problem is that Dick Grayson and Wally West, who are nightwinging in the Flash, are longtime best friends and Dick Grayson was raised by Batman

so if there's anyone who's going to know how to exploit a weakness and know a weakness it's going to be the guy who's been his best friend for fucking years so I'm not going to say it's a total wash I'm going to say that I feel like Nightwing might have a puncher's chance on this one

any thoughts though immediately on Nightwing versus the Flash Nightwing I mean, we spent a considerable amount of time going over all of the different versions of the flash and all the different powers that he has. And good grief. This guy is just brimming with bullshit abilities. So it's hard to bet against him in this one when he's basically against.

it's like a normal guy, even if it is someone who has been trained by Batman and who knows him well. Like, yeah, it feels pretty one-sided to me. Yeah, but I don't have to deal with a Flash again. I just want to have to do this again. We already don't have the time.

He's not going to beat Batman, that's for sure. Well, so we have... I think Nightwing Batman is a great. Like, bracket? That's father versus son. Literally taught him everything he goes. That sucks.

This isn't fun. If it's, if it's Flash versus Batman, Batman, Batman's gonna win anyway. So don't even bother. That's, okay, so that's,

we're not at Batman yet, but that is going to be a thing, is the infamous plot armor that Batman has of prep time, as the online jokes have always been. Batman can beat almost anyone if he has enough prep time. So, but going back to it, Nightwing versus the Flash.

Dylan is going Nightwinging because Dylan doesn't like the Flash. John, you've acknowledged that the Flash has a significant power advantage. This is the, this is the Wally West version. This is the fastest male live. Faster than Barry Allen, faster than any other version. I want to take myself off the board on this one. I have a lot of bias. I really love Nightwing.

I've been a fan of Nightwing for my entire life. So I want to take myself off the board We can put it to a wheel If it's pretty cheap If it lands on me Then we'll spin it again But it'll be 50-50 John versus Dylan If that's the route

You guys want to go If not I mean even if I decide on night Even if I go with Nightwing Then We're still going to have to go to the wheel anyway Because John's leaning towards Wally West What if you spin it

And it lands on you And you have to spin it again and it lands on you again. Okay. At some point, you just got to make a choice. If that happens, then I will,

then I will choose Nightwing. But we're going to spin it right now. Okay. Boom. There you go. So it landed on John, meaning that Wally West will advance past night. My luck didn't hold out.

It did not. But we mentioned the man earlier. We'll go ahead and talk about him now. On our next round, we have Batman versus Dr. Now, we all know Batman. We know that at the end of the day that he is a man, but he is also a man who is trained at the peak level of damn near everything,

and he has infamous plot armor. How familiar are you guys with Dr. Fate, though? Almost zero. I mean, I know he was played by Pierce Brosnan. That's, you know, that's more. So there have been multiple Dr. Fates. Traditionally, we will go with the Kent Nelson, Dr. Fates. He's the most famous of them.

So Dr. Fate is a powerful sorcerer and an agent for the Lords of Order. His amulets cloak and helmet are creations of the ancient Nabu, who is his mentor and spiritual guide. Let me go to his power set, because it's a lot of magic. All right. Divine empowerment. So he possesses limited levels of superhuman abilities, which are mystical in nature, having been altered by Nabu himself to make him a capable bearer. of the helmet of fate. While possessing limited abilities on his own, he can bolster his powers by using the helmet of fate or having his patron.

So he's telekinetic, flight invulnerability, superhuman strength, hypnosis. He can phase through solid objects, photokinesis, so he can manipulate light. And he is an expert at the cult and medical knowledge as well as history and jujitsu. He has a lot of power limitations, though. So he is dependent on the helmet of fate. He is dependent on his patron. He is dependent on his... Basically, he has to be able to fucking breathe in order to cast magic.

And also, he cannot simultaneously cast spells. So he cannot cast more than one spell at a time. So, we all know Batman, though. Batman is an expert at everything. Batman knows everyone's weakness. It was a very famous storyline under Grant Morrison's Justice League, where it was discovered that Batman had a file on every member of the Justice League and how to beat them if he had to.

That being said, Batman was also trained by the great Zatar Zatanna, which is Zatana's father, on magic and knows how to counter a lot of magic, and knows how to recognize magic. So that's a very long-winded way to say. What do you guys think? I think it's a very long window way to say Batman's going to win. We can just write down Batman now. I mean, yeah, I'm not going to argue that point.

I think with enough preparation time, Batman it'd beat pretty much anyone. But even then, like you say, he's already got all these plans in place anyway for how to beat his fellow heroes if they turn bad. So I would say he's probably got something up his sleeve to take Dr. Fate down, even if he was just like thrown in and into a like fight with him. I'm inclined to believe.

I mean, there are certain things we did in the previous rounds where like Captain America and Spider-Man and stuff like got taken out in the first round. Well, no, Captain America made it to the second round, but Spider-Man got eliminated. in the first round because he was up against Captain America. Dr. Fate is very powerful. There has only really been, despite a few instances where someone temporarily took over the mantle, there's only been one Batman, and there have been three Dr. Fates.

So. Anybody can do it. If you have a level of magic and you can be guided by the orders, the spirits of order, then yeah. Yeah, how hard could that be? Yeah, we're going to have Batman advanced the next round. in a fight that looks like it might go a very similar direction

we have the emerald archer of Star City Green Arrow Oliver Queen up against Superman So Oliver Queen is an incredibly gifted archer Probably the best marksman in DC Comics Tons of trick arrows at his disposal He's an expert hand-to-hand combatant And also has a chip on his shoulder and a bit of a mouth on him So if there's anyone who can think that he's going to walk into a fight

Superman and stand a puncher's chance it's probably going to be Oliver Queen. The opposite end is it is Superman. He is Kryptonian. He is the most powerful character in DC Comics. There's very little Superman can't do. That being said, opinions on Green Arrow versus Superman.

I mean, on paper, it's Superman's fight to lose, right? I mean, you know, he's vastly over. powered in terms of what green arrow brings to the table. But you never know.

What if Green Arrow has like a kryptonite arrow in his you know, whatever the arrow bag is called? I think it's just a quiver. That'll do. Yeah. It seems like it's

well-pillar. Doesn't he doesn't even have his own equipment job. So in the Dark Night Returns, the Frank Miller storyline, Superman is defeated by Batman or at least taken to a draw and has to retreat partially due to Oliver Queen taking him out with a, or weakening him with a kryptonite-tipped arrow. So there is an established Oliver Queen getting one up on Superman, but that is a That's just swung it in my favor. I'm totally going for Green Arrow. Are we going to take it to the wheel? I mean, I was going to say Green Arrow is a bit, but, like, realistically, like, it's Superman.

You know, I mean, we can, we can play all these games all you want. You know, you can say, Hawkeye could maybe, you know, he has a chance against the Hulk, but really... Hawkeye killed the Hulk. He literally killed him. Yeah, he killed him. He killed the Hulk or did he kill the Spanner? No, he killed the Hulk. How did he kill the Hulk?

It was like a weird arrow, right? Yeah. Weird arrow. Yeah, weird arrow. Like gamma radiation arrow or something. So if Green Arrow gets a weird arrow, which apparently a very easy to get in comics, he could kill Superman.

That we're saying? Yeah. In good conscience, I have to get it to the wheel. Okay. Well, I'm going for Superman. All right. So I'm going to go for Superman as well. I love Green Arrow.

He's one of my. top three characters of all time. But, yeah, I can't in good conscious have Superman get eliminated in the first round without giving the wheel of spin. So if it lands... If it lands on John... I'm sorry about it was placed.

Okay. So landed on me. So it landed on each of us. It's being fair today so far. So it landed on me, so Superman will be advancing to the next round. Now, that's not necessarily a great victory for Superman because in our next round,

we have Booster Gold, the greatest hero you've never heard of, versus the Mistress of Magic, Zatana. So, what are your familiarities with Booster Gold and Zatana? Didn't I, we talked about Zatana before. Yes, we talked about Zatana when we did a draft to, like, kind of do a, pick your Justice League, essentially. Right, because I'm like, I'm pretty sure I drafted her at some point. Didn't I?

You did. Yeah, so she's, I'm going to vote for her. because I drafted her. I don't even have to listen to what Gold has to say. It's a magic arrow or whatever the fuck. It doesn't matter. I'm looking at it.

You actually drafted booster gold and I think Corey drafted Zatana. What? That's bullshit. Well, I want to change my draft. I'm not changing my boat. I want to change my draft. I want Zatana. You're going to boost her gold.

All right. So Zatana is a master of various forms of magic and primarily commands magical energies, cosmic forces, and spellcasting through speaking commands backwards, although not always required. So basically, she will say things backwards, like she'll say, you know, turn into a rabbit, but she'll say it backwards, and then you'll turn into a rabbit. She is also an expert at the occult in demonology and a master stage magician and escape artist, as well as a skilled hand-to-hand combatant. Booster Gold is from the future, who he was working as a janitor in a museum for heroes, decided that he was going to steal a time machine

and some hero gear and go back in time and make himself a superhero. That gear that he stole and took with him are the, is a power suit that grants him superhuman strength, speed, endurance, and durability. A force-field generator, energy blasts through gauntlets, enhanced senses via a visor that he wears, and flight via a ring.

as an expert athlete and a hand-to-hand combatant as well. So we have tech versus magic. On his own, Buster Gold is just a dude. He's a former football player who got basically kicked out of the sport for betting on games. Zatana is, you know, without her magic, a stage magician. So that being said, any thoughts on Booster Gold versus Zatana? Who's more interesting? A football player or a stage magician?

I mean, Booster Gold is probably. one of the more endearing characters because of a kind of comic relief. On a outward facing, he is very selfish. He is all about trying to become popular and wealthy. But a lot of that is a front to cover up the fact that he does protect the time stream, especially in the later years, where Booster Gold plays the part of a moron to keep people unaware that he's actually keeping shit happening in the right order it's supposed to happen.

Kind of like the TVA and Marvel, but like one dude instead of like a weird organization. I mean, I'm going towards Zatana here because it feels like her magic is probably going to be more effective than whatever tech booster gold is stolen from the future and come back to the past to become a hero with. This isn't really the kind of match that you know, paints a great pitch

of the DC heroes. You got like a janitor versus a stage magician. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. I agree with John on both points. So Zatana.

Okay. Yep. I am all, okay. I will do. I love Booster Gold. Booster Gold is a very fun character. He was the heart of Justice League International. But that being said, I want Zatana to advance because I think the next

Her next round matchup is against Superman, who is notoriously weak against magic, and I think that could be interesting. So we're going to have Zatana versus Superman going in the next round, so she will advance past booster gold. Our next round, however, are two Vertigo comics favorites. We have Swamp Thing, the Avatar of the Green, against John Constantine, a character that I'm not, I'm curious how you guys feel about, because he's kind of a, I don't want to say a caricature of, like, the United Kingdom. But, I mean, you know, he's a cockney guy and has a surly attitude and expert with magic and what have you. So, I guess the question is, like, how familiar are you both with Swamp Thing and John Constantine? I'm familiar with his animated TV show.

Yeah, go Swampy. Mm-hmm. The weird bug thing. No word bug guy. Mm-hmm. whatever his name was Carl I don't remember what his name was Carl

I think it was weed killer I think it was his name anyway so Swamp Thing is the embodiment of the cosmic energies connected to all plant life aka the green that manifests through manipulation of plant matter allowing for him to change shape and size travel through time and can appear in places

wherever there's life so basically he can kind of just pop in and out of places if long as there's plant life there he has a superhuman strength their ability and can regenerate himself and can also grow wings out of plants that allow him the ability to fly. Constantine, however, is a genius-level intellect. He has extensive knowledge of the occult.

Is an expert user of magic, whether that's telekinesis, necromancy, pyrokinesis, illusion projection, teleportation, or time magic, or chronokinesis. He is an expert tactician and manipulator. He is a master con artist and is a detective. Also, a chain smoker, and played by Keanu Reeves. So, that being said, we know a little bit of. other power sets, both powerful members of the Justice League dark. Thoughts on Swamp Thing versus

Constantine. I mean, it sounds like Constantine has the upper hand here. You think? Yeah. Gianna Reeves? Yeah, but Swamp Thing was played

by Ray Wise in his movie. Well, fuck, I forgot that. That changes everything. Like this whole being connected to the green thing

like that sounds like it's a pretty powerful thing for Swamp thing to have in his back pocket. Tell me Constantine's pars again real quick. All right, Constantine is expert with

occults and the occult knowledge and demon. He is a genius level intellect that expert user of magic including telekinesis, necromancy pyrochinesis, illusion projection, teleportation, and chronokinesis, among others. Pyrocanesis.

So fire. He can set shit on fire. Yes. One thing could be connected to all the green shit he wants. Constantine was set on fire. Hmm. Make a good point. Something to think about.

Well, depends if Swamp thing could like overwhelm Constantine before he can set him on fire. and maybe, you know. Didn't you say you had some kind of time power as well? Chronicinesis, yes. So he's able to manipulate time with magic.

Back in time before Swamp Thing was able to figure that out. Oh, geez. It's not looking good for Swampy. That is best. I don't know. So Delon is going with Constantine. John, you are leaning towards, you seem a little undecisive. at the moment.

Well, yeah. Go ahead. Sorry. I was going to say my first thought was Swamp Thing, and now I'm being swayed more to the Constantine side of things. I will not lie. I am firmly in the Constantine camp on this one as well. I think, you know, Swamp Thing is, at one point was Alec Holland.

and then eventually discovered that he really wasn't, that he is actually this living embodiment of the green and that Alec Holland was just an idea that he thought he was. Constantine is rough around the edges. He is a master manipulator. Dylan, you read the Deadpool and Batman comic, right? You saw him fucking around with Dr. Strange, of all people. And, like, that's the kind of guy he is,

where he was like, the first thing he did was headbutt Dr. Strange and steal the eye of Agamato. Like, he's a dick. Like, that's the thing about Constantine is he is not going to fight clean. Yeah. Well, I've been my case for Constantine. Are we happy it up with Constantine then?

Sounds like it, John. I don't know. It's been a while since you spun the wheel. Okay. I'm going to go Swap Thing. All right, we're spinning the wheel. If it lands on John, it's Swamp Thing. But if it lands on,

on either myself or Dylan. We're going to go with Constantine. Yep. All right, cool. So landed on me, so Constantine will be advancing. I've noticed we tend to go really heavy into magic. Are we secretly, like, all into magic characters? Yes.

Apparently. Don't think so. I think it's by time we became a magic podcast. We'll start talking about Chris Angel. All right. Our final first round match, we have Martian, the Martian Manhunter, John Jones, the last green Martian. And we also have the Green Lantern, Hal Jordan, who is one of Earth's space cops, largely

considered the best of them, really, just due to his mastery of willpower. So, real quick, how familiar are you with the Martian Manhunter? I would say zero. Wait, he's from Mars? Does he have a bite? He is from Mars. He does not have mouse ears or anything. That's going to be a point.

He can, what, like shape shift? He can float around. He's got a sweet cape. So yes, yeah. Marshallman Hunter has superhuman strength, speed, agility, reflexes, stamina, endurance, metabolism, and durability. He has supervision, which includes heat vision, an infrared vision, and electromagnetic spectrum vision.

microscopic vision, x-ray vision, and night vision. He can shape-shift so he can change his appearance. His body has a elasticity to it, so he can stretch himself. He can control his density so he can phase through solid objects. He can turn himself invisible. He can make himself intangible. He can regrow parts of his body. He has extended longevity, meaning that he ages very, very slowly.

He can fly. He's considered invulnerable. He's telekinetic. He is telepathic. He has a genius-level intellect. he's an expert detective and he's advanced martial arts artist and hand-to-hand combatant. The thing about the Martian Manhunter is that he was kind of designed to be like Superman, except he has a very big weakness as well.

His weakness is fucking fire. Very famously in the first, I believe it was a final frontier, I believe was the Darwin Cook storyline, a bit of an Elseworld storyline. Batman, his first interaction with the Martian Manhunter, was informing him that he paid millions of dollars for a piece of comet that could weaken Superman, but he only would have to spend a penny for a book of matches against John Jones, or the Martian Manhunter. Green Lantern, however, has a Green Lantern Power Ring, which basically allows him to create constructs out of basically his imagination. If he can think it, he can make it. So giant robots, giant baseball bats, giant hands, giant fucking ambulances, he can give himself armor. He also allows him to travel through space and fly and create sort of shields for himself using his willpower as a source of energy.

Martian Manhunter is a guy from Mars who came to Earth and became basically a police officer. Green Lantern is a guy from Earth who went to space to become a police officer. So they're kind of mirror images of one another. Any initial thoughts on the Martian Manhunter versus Green Lantern? I'll ask a question a quick about the Green Lantern. So the Green Lanterns, do they get their power from green stuff? No. They do not get their power from green stuff.

Basically, the ring is sort of powered by this sort of embodiment of willpower. So it is an emotional spectrum that has been harnessed as a fuel source. So if you are someone who has a lot of willpower, you're able to push through things and endure things, then that ring will work for you in ways that it will not work for others necessarily. That's why the ring chooses the person. You don't get to become a green lantern because someone decided it. The ring itself sense that you or someone who is capable of great willpower and chose you. Okay.

I feel like whenever you read out Martian Manhunter's powers they seem pretty extensive He is a very very powerful and kind of underrated character For that reason Also Yeah it's similar these guys are actually founding members of the Justice League

And also you're like his main weakness is fire But that doesn't come up much For the Green Lantern Like the Greenlander can't conjure up fire, can he? Not necessarily. Because like if he's making like it as constructs or whatever, then it's not going to be real fire. He's making it. Yeah.

So I'm leaning towards Martian Manhunter. I'm sort of thinking along the same sort of lines. Okay. Didn't you say Martian Manhunter's got like some psychic abilities as well? Yes, he is a telepath and telekinetic. There you go. So maybe he could fuck around with Green Lantern's willpower and then, you know, maybe sabotage his powers that way as well. He's got options.

That's true. I am inclined to agree with you that I think the Martian Manhunter could beat Hal Jordan. So we're going to have Martian Manhunter advance. although it's been a while on the wheel so maybe so that is it for our first round matches we're going to take it right back up to the top we have Power Girl versus Wonder Woman

we have a Kryptonian versus an Amazonian some would say pretty evenly matched in a lot of regards Power Girl again has the same power and abilities of Superman a little rougher around the edges attitude wise Wonder Woman is fucking Wonder Woman probably like I said, the best hand-to-hand combatant in D.C., in my opinion.

So thoughts on that. We can refresh what we talked about previously with these characters, but if you have your opinion, by all means. I'm a stick apart, girl. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think if someone is mighty enough to beat a guy like Aquaman, you've got to go for one.

Wonder Woman. Something I want to also point out is that like all Kryptonians, Power Girl has a weakness to magic. And Wonder Woman deals with a lot of fucking magic. Okay. The lasso of true is a magic item.

The bracelets are a magic item. The tiara that she uses as a weapon sometimes is a magic item. Her weapons are considered magic as well. But but what if you punch those things really hard? then they'll prick.

Well, so here's the thing, and this is not to get into a big launch spiel, but I'm about to. The idea is that the reason that the Kryptonians are weak to Earth magic is that they are not naturally from Earth. So, like, all of the magic is derived from, like, basically the energy of the planet. And because they are not from here, that's what makes them weak and susceptible to it. So, again, Wonder Woman deals with the gods. You know, the Greek pantheon, even in the Norse pantheon, she had some involvement with them. You know, like I said, I think she could definitely take Power Girl.

I think she could definitely exploit that frustration and the anger that Power Girl has, and she can get around some of those Kryptonian abilities with the fact that she's basically dripping in magic aura. So I go back to the wheel. Yeah, sounds like it. So John, where are you? Are you with Wonder Woman or Power Girl? Because Dylan is with Power Girl. I am 100% with Wonder Woman

Okay so Dylan If it lands on you Power Girl advances If it lands on either of us This is how I got Power Girl here in the first place I believe Dylan You got to bet on Power Girl more often

All right so it landed on Dylan So Power Girl is going to advance past Wonder Woman And make it to the final four in this side of the bracket. In our next fight, though, we have Wally West, the Flash, the Fastest Man alive, against Batman. And as we've discussed...

Batman. As we have discussed... Batman. Batman with prep time is hard to fucking beat. Yeah. Plus, Batman listened to our episode where we killed the Flash and he took notes.

We didn't do an episode where we killed Batman yet. So... That's impossible. The Flash is... Not until John gets married to him and gets some syphilis. So the Flash's weakness is cold. So if you freeze him down, extreme cold, it slows his metabolism down and will render him inert.

Batman happens to deal with somebody who, deals with extreme cold quite frequently named Mr. Freeze. And if there's somebody who probably has the ability to get his hands on a freeze gun, it's going to be Batman. Now, the Flash deals with his own version of Mr. Freeze, which is Captain Cold, pretty fucking frequently. As we have discussed, you know, we have someone who is, again, literally the fastest man alive. He can run so fast you can go back in fucking time, for example, if he's using the cosmic

treadmill, which we can discuss at another point in time if we need to. but we're against Batman with prep time. He also has known Wally West since he was a fucking child because his his sidekick was friends with him.

So we have Batman who knows him very intimately as well as the Flash was a member of the Justice League with Batman after Barry Allen died during the crisis on Infinite Earths. So it's

again, all the powers in the world run into a problem when you're against Batman with knowledge and prep time. I'm inclined to go with Batman. We talked about this one way longer than I thought we would.

Really? Okay. So John, are you in the same boat then? Oh yeah, 100% Batman. Okay. We've got Batman moving on. Up next, this is one that could be a bit interesting just like Power Girl versus Wonder Woman.

We have Superman against Zatanna. As we have discussed previously, Cryptonians are weak to magic And magic is fucking Zatana's forte Um Superman has had to contest magic many times So he has had to endure it and get through it one way or another So he has experience dealing with it

It's again one of his weaknesses But it is something he has managed before Any thoughts on Superman versus Zatana? I mean logically we probably should pick Superman, right? Oh logically we should be picking And Satana, if magic is Superman's one weakness, or one of his major weaknesses. You know what, John, you persuaded me. I'm going to go with Zatana.

The thing about that is, Zatana is dependent on casting magic by speaking backwards. Who is faster than a speeding bullet? The flash. Well, true as well. But for example, if Superman going into this fight knowing he's up against Zatana, if he can put his hand over her mouth before she's able to be able to. able to cast a spell, fights over. He can literally...

Yeah, but why does she kicks him in the dick? I don't think that would have an effect on him. I... Probably break her foot. Yeah, exactly. It was... He's super durable. And her foot's not magic.

She's the ability to cast magic. She didn't have a magic foot. Now, if Aquaman was punched him in the magic waterman... What if she cast a spell on her foot that made it really strong? I mean... And then if... Superman puts his hat over it. Then she kicks him in the dick with her super strong foot.

And he doesn't expect it because nobody's ever kicked him in the dick before. And he's like, oh, and he takes his hand off her mind. He did. And they say the word. Whatever. We're talking comics here. Okay. So I'm inclined to go Superman.

I think that Superman is the thing that would hold her back. If it was Superman versus Constantine, which is possible if they both advance the next round, that's a harder fight because Satana. is dependent on being able to verbally cast her magic by speaking backwards. Constantine doesn't have that same problem. He can cast without doing that. Okay. Well,

I'm still going to Tana. I am going to go for Zatana. Okay. We will spin the wheel. Wheel time. If it lands on me, Superman advances if it lands on Dylan or John, then Zatana will.

The odds are good. Pretty sure it's my turn next. Oh, no. It's, Will loves Dylan today. We'll love Dylan today. So Zatanna will be advancing as Superman. Wheel of Fortune. All right.

We have another super being versus another magic user and our last of this particular round. We have John Constantine versus the Martian Manhunter. So, without stating the obvious, I'm going to state the obvious, which I guess is stating the obvious, regardless. One of the abilities that John Constantine has is pyrochinesis. Martian Manhunter is weak against fire. It literally causes his body to deconstruct, and he goes into a panic state to basically, like, yeah, physical weakness to fire.

So, unless some trickery fucking happens. Constantine could Constantine could beat Martian Manhunter just on the ability We're able to throw a fucking fireball Boy, this Pyrocanesis is really saving his ass here He found the right people to go against him He did all right

I'm gonna go Constantine I mean it's hard to argue against that logic really Yep Yeah Constantine it is So Constantine will go past the Martian Manhunter Like I said just a bad draw for Martian Manhunter hunter on this one.

All right. So we got our final four. We've got Power Girl. We've got Batman. We've got Satana and we've got Constantine. We've got two magic users, a Kryptonian and a dude with a lot of prep time and money. Yep.

That being said, Power Girl versus Batman. We have a Kryptonian from an alternate Earth. We have Batman who is fucking Batman. And one of those things Batman has, at his disposal, is a ring made of kryptonite that he has in his possession, in case Superman ever goes awry. That's a big fucking thing to have against Power Girl. That's going to make it seem like...

I mean, if he's prepared to fight Superman, that he's prepared to fight... Any of them. And arguably, Superman is the best of the Kryptonians. Right. So you would imagine it's probably to be Batman. It's got to be. However. Dylan's doing real good on the wheel

There's no however for me I really want to see if I could get Parker on in the final All right Oh my God No idea how I want to fuck this bracket up so bad I mean that honestly it's a little fucked It's a little fucked

But anyway so I can fucking more I'm going with Batman John where are you going Uh yeah Batman 100% So Dylan the wheel has been loving you is the wheel going to continue to love you. We'll see.

Oh my God. You guys are going to hate me if I could pull this one off. Oh, my fucking God. Dylan, the wheel loves you today. That is Power Girl advancing past Batman, able to overcome the Kryptonite Ring. Power Girl gets herself into the finals to represent DC Comics.

All right. Our final matchup, Magic versus Magic. We got Satana versus Constantine. not only teammates, but former romantic partners as well. Both very, very well skilled at what they do, both very, very talented at what they do. This one is difficult.

You have two experts at Magic against each other. But constantly as Pyrochonesis, though. Well, yeah, Zatema's two. Yep. Yeah. Oh, well, shit. He doesn't have to speak backwards to the cast spells, though, so. I think the other thing going for Constantine's favor is he is way more willing to fight dirty.

Yeah. What do we think? Constantine? I'm thinking Constantine, yeah. I like Satana, but boy, oh, boy, if there's anyone going to exploit the fact that they used to be romantic partners, it is going to be him. And he's going to be fucking dirty about it. So, we have our finals for the DC side, a bit unexpected as well. We have Power Girl, who is our Kryptonian. Against John Constantine, our magic user, we have discussed this at life now.

Magic versus Kryptonians very rarely works out well for the Kryptonians for the most part. It is one of their big weaknesses. Power Girl was able to get past Wonder Woman, however. And Zatanna was, or in Constantine has been able to exploit his ability to use fire, essentially. But he also has many other versions of magic he can use against Power Girl. Dylan, I know how you're angling for this, because you're, you've been consistent with Power Girl. Are you still signing a Power Girl against John Constantine?

Well, this is an irritating thing. Is that, again, by all stretch of the imagination, I should pick Constantine. The chance to fuck it up again is right there. You know what you mean? And like, I can't go all the way here and then just fold on the final thing. I got it. I got to just try to fuck the whole thing off.

see it through. So I got to see it through. What kind of a coward would I be if I quit and I? So I'm good. I have to say power girl. Okay. Oh, dear. Well, I am inclined to go with Constantine, John, or you? Yeah, I'm team Constantine know the way. Listen, my luck's going to run out at some point. Do you mean? This is going to be it. I can't possibly pull it out of, you know. All right. Yeah, we're going to see you down here again. We'll find out if it does.

Yeah. Yeah, the streak's over. The streak is over. I had to try. John Constantine will advance past Power Girl, making him the representative for DC Comics in the hero side. So that's actually, that's a pretty interesting thing. to go, a character who's very kind of morally gray for the most part, ultimately representing DC.

I don't think that that's like a crazy pick, though. I don't think it is. Like you said morally gray, because the thing about Superman is his, you know, his pure goodness and a lot of the stuff in there, it's like a lot of the other superheroes and stuff, they're all very, you know, good guy kind of person. It's nice that you have somebody like Constantine, he's a bit more like, listen, we're having a tournament here. We're fighting for the good of the world or the good of the comics or whatever. You got to pick a few people in the dick here. You know, you got to, you got to play dirty.

Yeah. Let's go ahead. I will, let's leave the bracket. We'll jump back over to our cameras. And we'll talk a little bit more about this, I think. So guys, John Constantine will represent DC Comics Hero Wing in our tournament. Again, so that is interesting that both the Marvel hero side and the DC hero side are represented by kind of chaotic magic users. Yeah. We have a type. We do.

We love, we're a magic podcast again. That's what we're up to. We love the X-Men and we love magic. Yeah, if we're neither X-Men, there were also magic users. As long as there, man, if only there was an X-Men whose name was literally magic. That'd be bit on the nose, so, wouldn't it?

That would be a little pointed. I think my cat just me out into the mic Thank you for that and now I was praying into the mic This is an auditory experience for everybody So We all enjoy it

That being said What surprised you about this one? Power Girl I don't think it's that big a surprise I mean Power Girl's a heavy hitter She is a Kryptonian The fact she's able to get like through like you know Wonder Woman

That's a pretty big get. I don't think, I mean, even though the winner was a surprise, I don't think there was that many, like, major upsets along the way to get there. I think Constantine just had like the luck of the draw really on his side. He got very lucky with some of his pigs. He did against Swamp Thing and Martian Manhunter. It was pretty easy for him to get through just because both with the whole fire deal. yeah it serves you well it does

so I thought that one was much smoother than I think the the Marvel superhero one was more chaotic it's the most chaotic one so far it has been yeah considering I think the thing about it is and this this it might say more to your familiarity with Marvel characters than DC characters because we had a lot more like kind of unanimous like yeah

that person should definitely go through whereas I think with the Marvel side where you guys are bigger Marvel guys you had more more strong opinions about characters you know where you had like like Rogue versus Deadpool for example you know like if

if you didn't have that sort of love for Rogue you might look at and go yeah Deadpool should be that you know that should be easy and like Rogue made it all the way to the damn near quarter like she was quarterfinals nice I still say she should have won. She, well, the whole thing?

Yeah. And she got eliminated by Captain Marvel, though. Well, you can see that. It makes sense. So, John, it's been a bit since we asked it. And I think this is actually the first time we're recording in 2026. So first off, where did you officially end 2025 on your movie count? So I finished 2025.

on 1,225 movies in total. That's a good bit. Pretty good. What was the last one you watched in 2025? I watched, you know, the Fantastic Beast series? Yes. Like those movies were leaving Netflix. on

New Year's Day so I was like oh I might as well just watch those so I watched the last one of those which was the secrets of Dumbledore what was the secret that he's gay which wasn't that big of a secret

was that really it? Was that really it? Essentially yeah I mean yeah it wasn't great that's a shame well then what was the last

you watched in 2026 or 2025 Should we Save that for the next Yeah Let's do that for the anyway Because just I mean Behind the veil here

We're going to read We're going to immediately record The DC villains one after this So we'll do this episode With the last movie John watched in 20205 With his final count If you want to see other things That John watched in 2025

John where can they go to read more about it They can head to letterboxed And they can find me at big John Bowsky Or one word Dylan what have you been up to you lately I've been a lot of drawing and stuff well on Monday nights I do

radio show on Barnes Digital Radio UK time of 9 o'clock to 11 o'clock every Monday night's play a lot of music you can shoot in on the internet It's really good fun and then I draw a lot of stuff spare time I drew a lot of stuff

drawn this week. Sometimes I streaming on Twitch at Spookler. And I posted on YouTube at Team Crows and I. I think it's the same on TikTok. I don't remember. I already used TikTok. But there's some new stuff going up this year. So check it out.

There you go. My show Large Old Cup should be coming back relatively soon. I've been amassing a lot of interesting things to talk about and experiences to have. So we should be bringing them back shortly, I imagine. But until next time, you can find links to all that stuff in the description. If you have thoughts on who you think should have won the D.C. side, or if you agree with us that John Constantine was the absolute winner,

let us know. In the meantime, though, we'll see you all later. Goodbye. Bye.