The Smark Avengers - The Smark Avengers Present Goblin Month - Jason Macendale

Episode Date: October 2, 2026

It’s finally October and now it’s time for all things ooky and spooky and the Smark Avengers aren’t being left out of the fun! This year, the Smark Avengers will be celebrating the month of October by focusing every episode on Spider-Man’s favorite sort of villain - goblins! And starting off Goblin Month is the second most notable man to don the apparel of the Hobgoblin, the first Jack O’Lantern, and over all lovable loser Jason Macendale! He may be the Charlie Brown of Goblins but he’s by no far the WORST Hobgoblin. Whether it’s attempting to get his hands on the goblin serum, making deals with demons, or getting cybernetic enhancements, Macendale was always striving to improve himself… and isn’t that weirdly inspirational? 🎃 Sit back and relax as Corey, Dylan, and Jon discuss the life and times of Spider-Man villain - Jason Macendale: - Macendale’s humble beginnings in the marines, the CIA, and jumping into the world of costumed mercenary work as Jack O’Lantern - The growing animosity between Macendale and the Hobgoblin leading to the Hobgoblin’s death and Macendale assuming the role - Macendale’s first outings against Spider-Man and Harry Osborn’s Green Goblin - Deals with demons and cybernetic implants - His arrest and death at the hands of the original Hobgoblin Roderick Kingsley - Brief return as a clone and animated series debut portrayed by Mark Hamill - Could Jason Macendale work in the MCU? All of this and more! 💬 Join the discussion: was Jason Macendale really as pitiful as he came across or could Marvel ever redeem him? 👍 Like the video if you enjoy comic book related discussions and humor 🔔 Subscribe for more comic deep dives, reviews, rankings, and debates Click the link for Dylan's Twitch stream: http://Twitch.tv/spookylaroux Click the link for Jon's Letterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/bigjonbowski/ Click the link for Corey's show "Large Old Cup": https://open.spotify.com/show/2YHMppnl9inQevwLIxR64f Also be sure to check out New Number Ones posted every week on the Smark Avengers YouTube channel!

This is, I, I, I, I, I see, I mean, Jones is right to see if that segment, fuck me. Oh my God, Snoop Dog Criplock and at RestMania. Is that the intro? Good. Yeah. Hi, everybody. Welcome to Spark Avengers. It's Corey.

And with me, he's Dylan and John. Uh, we're talking about Snoot Dog and, uh, saving WrestleMania and then cripplocking because, you know, See, I went to high school, where I went to high school, like people just did that all the time in the hallways and stuff, just crippwalking, not save WrestleMania. Yeah, but you don't do it a fucking wrestling media.

Why not? What better place to do it? Done. Just because it could be done, doesn't mean it should be done. The whole Jeff Goldblum line. Although I will say, if anybody's going to get away

with cripple walking at rest of media, it's fucking Snoop Dog. Yeah, can't imagine anyone else could. So we're not here to talk about Snoot Dog or WrestleMania. We only talk about WrestleMania

once a year. We've already done that, damn it. We are here to talk about, well, we're talking at the beginning of

of October, which is the beginning of the Halloween season. If you're not a heathen and try to celebrate it in July, like some weirdos. Listen, I like fall and I like,

you know, dark stuff and monsters and whatnot, but, you know, there's a time in a place. Anyway, that being said, we're dedicating the month of October solely

to Spider-Man's favorite villain goblins. So every Friday, for the month of October, we will be covering a different goblin. Because if you've not heard us talk about Spider-Man enough in recent weeks, we're going to keep all doing it for another month. And then who knows what happens in November.

He's just pretty cool. We could come up with like November themed. I mean, honestly, the number of goblins there are, we could have extended this end to November. Gobble Goblins for Thanksgiving. I was going to say, it's Thanksgiving. So there's probably loads of Thanksgiving villains out there somewhere. Yeah, I'm sure.

There's a giant turkey monster somewhere. Probably. Probably. Honestly, God, probably. But anyway, so Spider-Man, there's no shortage of goblins to talk about. So we kind of had the cream of the crop to pick. And we're starting off with, I guess some would say, is the worst of the goblins is what I'm picking up? I don't think so.

He's not the worst in accomplishments. He's the worst in accomplishments, but in notoriety, he's definitely the worst. I'd say he's a lovable loser. Yes, I think that if we're talking about all goblins, I don't think that just Magandale is worse. Who do you think is worse than McIndale? I think there are other, the gray goblin is probably,

that's what I was thinking of, because I didn't even know that was a goblin until you guys informed me. Yeah, well, good luck for that episode. You're going to have the emperor a treat. Yeah, Red Goblin. That's going to be the miscellaneous. Yeah, we're going to gloss. Yeah, but so what we're going to do is we're going to talk about which, I mean, he was a hobgoblin for a long time.

He had a pretty long time here for being the hobgoblin, if I'm not mistaken, comparison to some of the others. I guess we'll go ahead and I'm going to just kind of turn this over to you. you guys as the resident spider-man experts. Let's dive in and learn a bit about the lovable loser Jason McIndale. Okay, so because this episode was like about Jason McIndale, I did a lot of, I got some notes on Jackalander as well. Okay. I don't, because again, spooky season, what spooky is to come with a pumpkin on his head?

Not a whole lot, right? So I have, I have some notes about Jackalander. If you would like, John, did you write Jackal lantern or just Hobgoblin? I did a little bit of Jackalanton, but it turns out he didn't really have that much that he accomplished as Jackalandon. Well, I think of him for here to style. Yeah, let's start at the beginning. Let's start with his origins. Who was Jason McIndale before the goblin before the pumpkin?

Wow, you'll be surprised to know, Corey, as the rest of the United States that, Before Jason Magendale turned to a life of crime, he enlisted with the Marines. And then he was working with the CIA. So, the few, the proud of Marines. Funny, funny host somebody who was a former Marine and worked with the CIA would turn to a life of crime. Isn't it? It's unusual. Usually they do it in the opposite area these days.

They start as criminals and then they get into the services. that's odd, you know. And they end up with a pumpkin on their heads. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The second deal was, well, get this as well, I think this is important to know that he was trained by the CIA as like an operative. And at some point, the CIA said that he was too violent for them.

Interesting. Yeah. Funny, whenever you think about it in the East. he's like wow there now you're like too violent for the CIA what the fuck did he do after this

Magadiel thought I should I'll become a mercenary and a really good way to become a mercenary it's become a costume like a bad guy because one you're protecting your own identity but B like gets you in the newspapers all the time

you know what you mean big deal so his first appearance he was actually fighting the machine man and that didn't really go the way he wanted it to go so he instead

like he was going to get caught so he faked a coma he had like a sign this is a thing he learned in the CIA he had like a pill in his mouth that would like induce a coma so he would be taken to a hospital instead of prison and I'm like that's actually and I'm going to say this probably the smartest

thing you're going to hear the smartest oh yeah But then when he's in the hospital, he has some like goons with him, and then he kind of like takes a hospital hostage. And Spider-Man hears him with this and beats him up. Is there any reason why? I mean, so when he was fighting Machine Man, was he the Jackalanturn then? Yes.

Was there any particular reason? I got to get a costume identity. I know. Pumpkin on my head riding a flying saucer. No. I think at first he had a broom. Okay. Didn't he?

I think of course. Because the Goblin had a broom, and the last Jackalian had a broom. Yeah, but the Jacqueline that I think people remember is with the little saucer. Yeah, that's what I was thinking of. It's way cooler. A fucking broom.

You know what I mean? It makes a special person to make a broom look good. You really got to try. Not everybody could pull it off. You know what I mean? So after this, Jackalandron is hired to steal the Hobgoblins' Battlevan. Hobgoblin had a little van who would operate out of. And during a fight with Spider-Man, I think it fell into a river.

So while it was being extracted, Jackalandron and his goons stole the van for their own nefarious deeds. So right up at the beginning, they're kind of like planting the seeds for an interaction with the hobgoblin. I'm still confused. Why the pumpkin motif, though? I mean, it doesn't it seem like that was always the plan to make him a goblin if they were going to start him off with a pumpkin on his head? Possibly. Like, it's, again, is it foreshadowing? Is it that he was in this shitty costume in order to get him towards the goblin?

The thing about that era of Hobgoblin's story is that it was, there was a lot of, like, kind of foreshadowing. and misdirection and this could lead here, this character is here, this character is this. So nobody knew who the hobgoblin was at the time. And so, Jack Rolander being involved with a pumpkin

on his head, like the hobgoblin uses, could easily be seen as a way to kind of like, he's going to be the next hobgoblin because they were doing that. There are, I think by the time McIndill becomes the hobgoblin, he is technically the fourth. if you want to be

like really like specific about it yeah but realistically the second if you want to be like actually real about it so um

McAdale tries to steal this battle van um and I think he does manage to steal it so at the time there's a lot of this is a gang wars

you know New York is kind of covered by people like the kingpin and hammerhead and stuff like that. I think in this instance, the kingpin had stepped down from being the kingpin, which is why all these other kind of gangsters and whatnot were trying to fill the void and slug it out to take control. Absolutely. So they're stepping up. That's why you see a lot of these.

You're going to hear a lot of names that have been forgotten the time. Yeah. Like the foreigner, you're like, whatever. this is, you're just characters and a little chessboard, you know? So, at some point, McIntyog, it's very interested in the whole hobgoblin thing, and he

makes a deal, who does he make a deal with? I think the rose, doesn't he? I think it's the rose. He makes a deal with the rose where he offers to break Flash Thompson out of prison. Flash Thompson has been framed as if he is the hobgoblin. Of course he never was.

So McIntyell offers to break the real, or what he believes is the hobgoblin out of prison. And it is the rose. The rose declines and the hoggwagher, or Jackalander, does it anyway, which angers the real hoggwoblin because he was happy to have Flash Thompson as a proxy in prison because it takes the heat off him. He's like, oh, the real hobgoblin's in prison.

Once it turns out that Thompson has been removed from prison, that causes the hobgoblin a bit of an issue. So now they have a thing against each other. They're not super happy. And they're working for different people. So Jackalander is working for the arranger and the hobgoblin is working for the rope. So at this point, there's animosity between Jackalantron and the Hobgoblin. Jackalanturn hires a foreigner to kill the hobgoblin Now

This is important At this point Jacker Lantern is so fit up with the hobgoblin That he hires a foreigner to kill him And then The foreigner succeeds At this point The hobgoblin is suspected to be Ned Leeds

Ned Leeds Is framed into being the hobgoblin And so Jackalander is a really reason that he died because he thinks he's killed the real hobgoblin as Ned leaves. And then from there, once the hobgoblin is dead, there's a free space to be the new hobgoblin, Jackalanturn steps in. His old nemesis that he'd been fighting with, the guy he stole a battle van for it, the guy whose little bombs who was wearing on his head, now accepts the mantle as hobgoblin. Like you said, it's almost as if it was meant to be.

So I have a kind of a weird question to ask about that. Is there like, what's the motivation for wanting to become Hobgoblin? Is it just like better name notoriety? I would say so. I think so. Yeah, because like, you know, Jackalantin has just been, I mean, his first, you know, showing he gets beat by Machine Man. That's not a good luck. That's a hard thing to come back from.

whereas the hobgoblin has been causing all kinds of trouble with Spider-Man and, you know, heavily involved in the gang war as like the roses second in command and stuff. Like, yeah. Hobgoblin has way more name value. Yeah, I think that's, if you looked at like what the hobgoblin is done in terms of like that kind of hierarchy and what the Jackman is done, you're like this is one-sided. Yeah, it just seems like if you hated someone so much, it'd be weird. Now I'm going to put on his costume.

Well, I think it's very important now to make it very clear that Jason Magidale is a very power hungry. He's very enchanted by the idea of being powerful and having that kind of power over other people. He really enjoys that. Whether or not he deserves it, but he really, it's going to come up a lot. So, okay. So, yeah, the Jackalanturn persona has now been cast aside. He is now the hobgoblin. He's got the orange hood on, the yellow mask, the purple glider.

He's ready to get out there. But he doesn't have the super strength, though, because he has not had the goblin formula that both Norman Osborne and Roderick. Kingsley have had. So he's still just a regular guy, even if he's got all the equipment to go with it. Did Ned Leeds have the... Did Ned Leeds have that, the Goblin Formula as well, or no? No. No. Okay. And that's an important part of whenever, in the 90s, whenever they revisit that story, we'll get to it eventually, but when they revisit that story, Spider-Man realizes that

Ned Leeds never had that goblin formula to him. And that is one of the reasons why he starts to connect the dots as to why Ned Leeds wasn't really the hot goblin. It was just framed. And who could have framed them, et cetera, et cetera. Okay. Yeah. So Plash Thompson also didn't have the goblin formula. Just want to put that out there.

So like, in terms of like technicality, they're saying that Roderick Kingsley, who nobody knew about, then flash thompson then ned leads and then jason mac andale were tacking through the hobgoblins whenever in reality it was really just rhoder kingsley and mackley yeah but kingley tricky tricky guy to kill very tricky man to kill and i've tried good lord have i tried so where are we uh he's he has the he does not have the formula but he has the persona and the equipment that's going to come back

so I think around this time the kingpin comes back doesn't he? Yeah the kingpin's back in power at this point so McIndale kind of he doesn't like the kingpin because

you know the kingpin wouldn't give him a job and rightfully so he also really wants to impress the kingpin because everybody wants he's the kingpin everybody wants to impress it

so this is really fun this is a really fun this is a really fun bit. I don't know if you have this is on your notes, but this is this bit. I think the two things we can say with confidence about Jason McIndale is, A, he really is power hungry and will do whatever it takes to get that power. And B, is a loser.

The arranger tells him that the kingpin will really respect him if he can kill Spider-Man, right? Yeah. That's true. So Hobgoblin's like, I'll just kill Spider-Man. how hard could it be the little Spider-Man, right? People have only been trying

since the king. Even the king pin couldn't do it. And he's like, well, I fucking, I was in the Marines. You know, I'm a fucking, I got a goblin glider. I'll be sweet. So he tries to lure Spider-Man out. He's causing havoc in the middle of New York. Spider-Man at the time, Peter Parker, was it like a party?

and had some punch which was spiked which means it was alcohol in it by the time he finds out about this he's like really tipsy and it still ends up beating the shit of the Hobgoblin drunk Spider-Man

is a sober Macandale this by the way after the arranger said the kingpin will respect you he killed Spider-Man his bodyguard was Tombstone so whenever he tells him this tombstone just like

always him out of window and then throws Back in Dale the hobgoblin out of window then the hobgoblin goes to find Spider-Man and they get beats up by a drunk Spider-Man So, rough night

It's not a great start It's not a good start For our boy You know what you mean? I enjoy that a lot I find that very funny Because we had been talking about How much of a loser he is

I'm like, well, he's not that bad I mean, he does get punked out a lot. Yes, he does. Well, you know what happens next, right? Is this where he goes after Harry Osborne to try and get the Goblin formula? Correct. So not too long into his reign as Hobgoblin, he realizes that there must be a secret to it. You know, somebody knows something. So he goes after Harry Osborne looking for the Goblin formula. He's frustrated with being called a loser. Funny enough.

But that doesn't really end too well for me either, does it? No. I mean, I think technically you could say that the whole goblin war between Hobgoblin and Green Goblin ends in a draw due to Spider-Man interference. Like, if you want to get technical about it. Yeah, we'll not call it an out-and-out loss,

but we're also not like he didn't know he didn't win and if you're like if you're I would say if you're going to a draw with Harry Osborne and he doesn't give it like the draw of Harry Osborne as

um Green Goblin is that he works really well against Peter Parker against Spider Man that's the hook if no if Harry Osborne doesn't even know who you are and you still can't beat him you're like all right that's it's not great

also i don't think this was like harry in the throes of the goblin madness or anything he hadn't broken bad or anything he was literally become in the green goblin again to the kind of uh protect his family after uh macandale was trying to go after them to get him so it was sort of like a reluctant harry osborne as the green goblin and he still couldn't be him

it was literally just maccadale was going after Harry Osborne to get the goblin formula. It's not like Harry Osborne was the green goblin and was trying to beat up the hobgoblin. The hobgoblin started that and then still like each, you know, just about got to draw. So not a good, not a good sign. So he's really like frustrated at this point.

He's like, I need, I got to get that strength, dude. I got to get that power. I got to get that respect. Because if I'm a strong man, I'll get respect. You know what I mean? which is funny because in 2026 it turns out you don't have to be a strong man to get respect

all you got to do is sit in the White House and shit yourself all the time and then the respectful flow just like the shit that yeah I was going to leave that there do you want to leave a pause

for this one good excellent you gotta keep some of them in there so a lot of them in there about this time in the comics they're doing the inferno storyline where New York is kind of like overrun by demons and whatnot and the hobgoblin

for some reason it gets some smarts in them and was like you know what this is a perfect opportunity for me to take advantage of all of the fucking demons going on and try to see if I can get some more power so he makes a deal with a demon. Now, John, how would you pronounce this guy's name? I have been looking at this name and struggling to pronounce it all day.

I think it's, you'd say, nastair, nastir? I was thinking nastier, yeah. So before we get into him making a deal with this devil, how did he find the devil to make deal with? I know they're overrun with it, but I can't imagine this is like Beetlejuice where you say

its name three times and he appears or like he has set up a shop somewhere. So how did Jason find the demon? This is like the main demon who kind of teamed with Madeline Pryor to bring about like the Inferno event, like bringing limbo to New York City. So this is a big thing.

I'm guessing yeah, I'm guessing he kind of was sauntering about and making himself known. Because he's like king shit. Yeah. I don't think it was too hard to find him. Mm. Well, I mean, like, how did Jason approach him?

And I mean, like, he's just a dude going up to this demon that has brought limbo to Earth. Like, you would think that there would be, like, did he have to, like, prove himself at some capacity? Did he have to, like, show fealty? Like, how did he approach him? Well, I think one thing we've seen about the demons of the, of the, of the, Marvel universe is that they're pretty easy to do feels good. Yeah. If you're like, hey man, take my soul

in exchange for strength, the guy's like, all right, can I take your marriage? And he's like, hmm, that'll come up later. So he's like, all right, cool. I'll just attach a demon to you for no reason. And then my demon will be able to live on earth. And then, you know, it's like a symbiotic relationship,

if you will. Apparently, though, when McIndale offered up his soul to this demon, the demon just laughed in his face. And like, yeah, but he ended up, like, throwing him a bone, basically, because he was... I've seen what you've done with that soul. I've seen what you've done with that soul. I've seen what you've done with that. Remember that, Corey. Remember that. So, now that he's got his new demonic side, he kind of, like, sometimes, like, his face gets all like, rar, you know? Like a demon, you know? so now that he has this demon side

he actually is able to beat up Spider-Man which is pretty impressive that's the one thing he's always wanted again if he beat up Spider-Man that's pretty cool but guess how Spider-Man gets out of this or I should say I should probably say guess

how fucking Hobgoblin loses it's the better way to put it I mean it's a demon did it involve the church in some capacity did you like stumble upon some holy water by mistake no no no um mary jean sets him a fire all right i'm just saying like when you think of demons you think of hell and you think a hell you think a fire so it's a little curious how fire works against a

demon in such a capacity like you would think that a demon wouldn't have an issue with being set on fire it'd be like oh thanks you know and i feel more at home well you have to remember that there's two sides of this coin the demon is to McIndale, but McIndale is still human. So it's a kind of, when I say it's a symbiotic relationship, I mean that like sometimes the demon comes out and takes over

and then sometimes it's McIndale. So, it's not like a proper like one to one. They still have like weaknesses. That humans would have. Jason gets the body on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays and alternating Saturdays. I wouldn't say it was

necessary truly symbiotic as well, because I think the demon is basically trying to completely possess McIndale, whereas he just wants to be able to use its power and stuff to make himself a big deal.

So they're kind of in conflict a lot of the time, especially sort of down the stretch. I'm not mistaken. Struggling with it. If I'm not mistaken, there's some pretty sick I think McFarlane was still doing art for Spider-Man around the time because I remember there was some sick hobgoblin demon art around there

because I remember I had an issue that I got from a yard sale and I think it was the build-up like it would think it was just right after that deal with the demon had happened because it shows him like getting rid of the hobgoblin mask because he doesn't need it anymore because of the demon possession. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So sometimes his face is all like,

Rar, you know Yeah, demons. Yeah, you know. But I think John's right in that it's not necessarily symbiotic. It's very much like the demon wants to take over. McIndale just wants to use the demon for his own ends. And there's a lot of frustration there. Don't you mean?

So after this, he tries to make a hit on Joe Robertson. Which doesn't work. Who? He gets stopped. that is very frustrated about this. So then he... Robby Robertson.

Oh. Yeah. Sorry. What I was okay. It's what I wrote my notes. I don't know why. So after this, he gets very frustrated and finds a character called Carryon. Corey, do you know who Carrienne is?

I've seen images, but I'm not super familiar with them. okay cool he is a man who was exposed to a virus of the jackal mead that turned him into kind of like a living zombie kind of character who can like turn other people into zombies and throw his little death like powder I guess

um they are like well we should be a tag team because we're both weird freaks and they actually do money to kidnap Spider-Man, which is pretty cool. But then Spider-Man gets away, and there's a big explosion that happens, which is supposed to kill both of the prigs. But it doesn't work, because later on, we see the Hobgoblin as he joins a version of the Sinister 6.

Now, I'm pretty sure we covered this in our Sinister 6 episode where we talked about every single version of the Sinister 6 and all of its offshoots. but at some point Dr. Octavist recruits him into the Sinister 6 but that doesn't last super long I don't believe I think they do like a little thing for Dr. Octopus

but like Octopus like fucks him over somehow Yeah I think they end up abandoning Doc Ock I think it's Hobgoblin Docok Mysterio Vulture Sandman and Electro and it's just the usual shenanigans where you know

they try and take out Spider-Man it goes wrong they go their separate ways pretty much pretty standard stuff for that not really worth talking about in this episode no so at this point the cracks are really like showing between McIndale and the demon they're really like he's going like

slowly and seeing because the demon keeps trying to take over more and more and he just wants to be a powerful man you know so I would imagine I would really do a number in your family frankly I've never had that myself because I don't want

the devil to erase my marriage you know I wouldn't want that that would make me sad so at some point like McIndale goes like fucking crazy and he starts like doing a lot of like religious stuff

you know he's kind of talking about that that more religious side and then he ends up like taking a bunch of hostages in a church i think right yeah and then just ends up killing most of them i think is this a bit where he like kills all of the hostages except for a kid and then he like keeps the kid his sidekick yeah that rings a bell he's like this kid's my psychic then spider man comes over is like get rid of the kid but then the kid is like Stockholm syndrome. He's like, no, Hoggoblin is my friend. I don't know with this.

But that happens. So at this point, he ends up fighting with people like Moon Knight and Ghost Rider. And like, that makes sense. Ghost Rider against like the demon hog goblin, like that.

Of course that makes sense, you know. So after this, they're really at all to each other. McIntyell is very fed up with the demon. The demon's very fed up with him. And then I think the demon is just like, you're such a loser.

Like, you were just such a fucking loser that I, I would be better off just not being around you. And he's, like, that's how they separate. It's not like a fucking seance.

Oh, there's not like, uh, there's no, like, the ghost rider, like ghost writer doesn't, separate them

no no and it was right there the demon just like goes you know what I think we should be seeing other people he got he got a dear John letter from a demon

I feel I feel like the demon was like I feel like we should be other people I don't like you anymore so they split up into two separate identities McIndale goes back to be a hobgoblin, the regular CIA trained, but still fairly like weak.

Regular Joe. Regular Joe kind of power level. And the demon becomes the demon goblin, which is just like a separate identity that looks quite like the hobgoblin, but he retains the scary face. And he is, you see him a lot in maximum carnage, I remember. Mm-hmm. what I remember him the most from. I don't know what else he did.

So now they are separated and it really shows just how kind of useless McIndelia is without the demon. Because he goes on to face Spider-Man and Ghost Rider again. And also, the Demogoblin who has now got a friend, which is Doppelganger. Corey, do you know who doppelganger is?

Yes. Cool. The clone, a feel clone of Spider-Man, we're supposed to be. So, you know, we're in that era. We're pretty much in that era of business. But out of all of this stuff, like McIndale is not doing well in terms of numbers and body kinds and victories. You know what I mean? He's still quite loser-esque.

and he's so obsessed he has learned no lessons from being possessed by a demon he's still obsessed with being powerful he just thinks

he needs to do it in a different way okay demon not the right way the goblin serum can't find it there's got to be

a third option to make me fucking powerful and cool so he gets in touch with I think the grim hunter yeah

Vladimir Krivenoff the son of Craven the Hunter because Craven the Hunter had his own little, oh, Kackam, Craven the Hunter had his own strength serum.

Yeah. Strength formula, because it's all about formulas in that day. So he, the Grim Hunter has found a version of the Craven formula and rightfully doesn't want to use it on himself

in case he dies. So finds a Giddish pig in McIndale. And I was like, you could Yeah, you could try it. And I think maybe because of like the fact that he would so recently

be bonded to a demon, McIndale's able to survive the serum and become stronger. He really does get the rub from the Craven serum. I was like, finally I get to fucking be a strong guy.

This rips. And like, I think the first thing he does whenever he gets the strength. are, you see, like, goes and kills the Demo Goblin. Mm-hmm. So he's like, now his confidence is back. He's got the strength that he wanted. He's going to kill people in his past for annoying him. He's like, I'm getting my confidence back.

He's starting to become, or it feels like he's starting to become a threat. So we're in the middle, well, we're at the beginning of the clone saga because it's a long saga. It is very long saga. And... Tell me about it. And during the saga, Dr. Octopus is killed by Kane, which is another field clone of Peter Parker.

And then Hobgoblin, I think, makes the Sinister Seven. Mm-hmm. Do you know who the roster for that is? Yeah. So it was Hobgoblin, Electro, Mysterio. vulture, shocker, beetle, and scorpier. Female scorpion. Yes.

And they all came together with the mission of trying to avenge the deaths of Dr. Octopus. And I think the grim hunter as well, who'd also been killed by Kane. I think he had been killed at this point. Yeah. They were quite fearful that Keane was going to kill them. Which I think is funny because Keen clearly just killed people who were a threat. I was happy to leave the hobgoblin the shocker alone you know

don't worry about it you'll be fine you know but that's like they didn't really do a whole lot either yeah like the 7 didn't have a plan other than to kill him and they didn't kill him so chalk another one up on the loser board for Jason McNeill now this is where I came in

this is when I started to read comics is this next bit so what happens is there's a character called gaunt who I think we talked about in our clone saga well we must have talked about in our clone saga episode who is like a master of robotics and cybernetics and

he wants to get rid of Peter Parker and Spider-Man for various reasons so he hires the hobgoblin and he cybernatically like enhances the hobgoblin he gives him like a robot eye

and like gives him cool like gauntlets and stuff so hobgoblin is working with a group called cell 12 I believe which I remember like they did so much work in like designing these characters and making them look fucking cool as hell

I think Mark Bagley like drew their first appearance they look great they're trying to kill Peter Parker they don't and then later on Spider-Man comes back for revenge and finds Cell 12 again and then he beats them all up. So I think after that Hobgoblin beats up Ben Riley with his new cybernatics,

but is unhappy with Cell 12 being fucking losers. And he is well, he knows exactly what that's like. So then he just blows them up. This whole group of cybernatically enhanced people are in like, three issues. They fucking blow... Hobgoblin blows his own team up. Goodness gracious.

And in one of my favorite... One of my favorite, like, scenes in comics, this is like... I just started reading these Spider-Man comics, man. After this, Hobgoblin goes back to his hideout. He has a lot of different hideouts across New York City. And it's just like some abandoned loft or whatever. And he has this whole monologue about how he is a...

fucking loser. He doesn't have a home. His wife won't talk to him. He doesn't know where his kids are. He's no funny. He's got all this fucking cybernatic shit on him. He's like, what am I doing in my life?

Why is this happening to me? He has this. The man who he established is the perennial loser has a monologue to himself about him being a fucking loser. And then,

it seems Ben Riley turns up. Real quick, this seems kind of like... I can't remember what show it was, but do you remember in the, like, invaders run in the WF where after he had, like, a particularly rough match, he's, like, audibly on camera saying, I'm just a fat piece of shit. Yes.

This is Jason McIndale, I'm a fat piece of shit moment. Well, the irony is he's coming off, like, beaten up Ben Riley. Like, he really did, like, beat up. What's really funny about that is when he appears, Ben Riley goes, Green Goblin?

Oh, Dick move. Ben Riley would never have seen the Hobgoblin. Ben Riley had no concept of the Hobgoblin. He wasn't around for that. And I'm like, that's such a lovely little touch, which they would do a lot in that time. And I really like that. So at this point, after Hobgoblin is lamenting his own life choices,

Ben Riley turns up again and just beats the fuck out of him and carts him off to prison. So, once he's in prison, finally in prison, this is where things start to come full circle.

And there is a man who is unhappy with the idea of Jason McIntyell being in prison because Jason Magendale might start saying a lot of secrets about the hop-goblin

to try to get like a lesser prison sentence so while he's in prison uh roderick kingsley turns up and just fucking kills him well i want to say as well i think there's an element of roderick kingsley just finally having enough of being embarrassed by the legacy that mackendale

is left as the hobgoblin he's just like, I made this guy a great character and then this other prick come along and he's just, you know, constantly making an ass of himself and getting beaten up all the time. So he's just like, yeah, that's it, you're done. I think that's a really good point

because, I mean, me and John have talked at nauseam about the Hobgoblin and how the original run was so good because it was very, mysterious. It was very like well plotted out, but also he did a lot of stuff. Like the Hobb Goblin was a

like that's why Maccindle became the Hobgoblin because he was a threat because he was a big deal. And I think we have established pretty much through this that Bacadil was the complete opposite of that. Yes. Like he was just a loser like through relentlessly.

Yeah. Yeah. Just like bulldozed through with his mediocrity. And he was top of him for a long time, though. Yeah, I want to say like 10, 15 years of that's a good run. Yes.

To be a loser in a whole time. Well, you're probably talking like mid-80s, and he would have died. I would have said, I want to say 97. Yeah, yeah, I think that sounds very. So you're probably talking like the best part of 10 years for sure. You know? Yeah. So, okay.

I also like his death as well, the fact that he gets completely incinerated. Like, just a charred skeleton is left behind as if the writers were saying, yeah, we're not bringing this guy back. Yeah, he's dad. We're not teasing this one. It's him and Uncle Band. They're both, although they did bring him back, so. Yeah. So I was, yeah, I was about to say, is that the tale, is at the end of Jason McIndale's tale?

I mean, technically, yes. There was a storyline. There's a storyline later on with, was it a company called New You that would clone dead people and put their memories back in them. A little bit like the...

Kind of like in Kirkcola. Yeah. Yeah. So they've cloned dead people and bring them back. And funny enough, all the people that they cloned the brought back, had something to do

with Spider-Man. Weird. Odd. Very strange. And one of those people was Jason McIndale. And then all the clones died, and I assume Jason McIndale also died. Well, I read, apparently he was part of, after this Dead No More storyline. He was part

of a group called the Army of Evil, which, like, Baron Zemo had put together when, like, during the secret Empire storyline where there was the bad Captain America taken over

America basically and yeah and he kind of had an army of supervillains apparently Hobgoblin and the Macandale version of it was a part of that army but I don't see how that's possible

if he's a charred skeleton and then a disintegrate clone, so... Yeah. I'm pretty sure that his clone was one of the ones at that, because it was like two or three that's five,

but I'm like, I don't think they're going to prioritize Jesus of Maconale. Bad editorial, in other words. Yes. I think so. Um, but that's, I think that's pretty much it. Yeah.

I guess most people will know them as like the animated series, Hobgobloven as well. Yes. So was he actually, wait, was he the animated series Spider-Man? Yes. Yes. So Mark Hamill played him. Because at that point, yes.

At that point, nobody knew who the original Hobb Copland was. Okay. Nobody, Roder King's head revealed as the Hobgoblin at that point. Okay. Yeah, no, everyone thought Net Leeds was still the original Hobgoblin. Yeah. Now, John, do you remember what this? the story was as to why they used

the hobgoblin as the main goblin in the Spider-O-Wan story? I don't know the reasoning for why he came first and Green Goblin came second. I think it may have had something to do with the toy line where

was it that like the Hobgoblin toy was released first? Was it the max? Did it have to do the maximum of overdrive? The Stephen King movie because it had the Green Goblin face on the semi-truck? did

yes it did the way I thought that there was a deal with a toy line and that because the toys were coming out and because at the time in the comics

McIndale was the only goblin that was around that's why they went with the only goblin that was in the comics and they introduced Norman later on

because he was the original goblin but the reason that he was the main goblin is because he was going to tie

into the toy line. That's what I had heard, and I don't know if that is correct or not, but that's a fun it's a fun little story of the true, you know? Everything I'm seeing has to do with the toy line that Avi Arad, who was the head of toy biz, said toy manufacturing schedules require an extensive

hobgoblin actor to roll out first. No idea why. But like it makes sense if the hobgoblin is the goblin in the comics, that they would make a toy, version of that. Yeah. But also like Norman Osborne

had been dead for 30 years. Well yeah, but it allowed them to do like an interesting twist on it by having like the roles reversed and having Hobgoblin come before Green Goblin because it meant that we got more Norman Osborne in the series

before he, you know, went mad and became the Green Goblin as well. So that kind of Yeah, it was, you know, allowed for more storytelling in that sense. Yeah, I thought it was pretty good. So has the Hobgoblin turned up in the other animated series? Oh, did he? I think it was only...

I think it was only the regular anime series, wasn't it? Yeah, I think so. I can't think of any other versions of him. I find video game appearances, but I didn't find any other, like, media appearances. Because he's not been in the films. No, there's been a net leads in the movies of the MCU, but obviously are very different net leads to the one from the comics. It says in the spectacular Spider-Man, Roderick Kingsley, appears in the series,

though he does not officially take on the Hobgoblin alias. So, yeah, no, it doesn't appear that he really has been a part of the animated series. They said there's, like, Harry Osborne utilizes a tech-based, mask and disguised a gas mask that looks a lot like Hobgoblin in Marvel Spider-Man. But again, that's not officially

Hobgoblin. I think the key is, how do you follow Mark Camel? You just can't. You can't. Well, they did with the Joker. Yeah, but I mean... We had to. Yeah.

You know, I just I thought it was a fun choice to go with the hobgoblin in the 90s comic. It's funny that they never really replicated that again. Is that because it's like a snapshot of time in the comics at that point? Or is it because people just don't see the value in the hobgoblin as a character when they already have the green goblin. Do you mean?

It's an interesting idea. I mean, because that's, I mean, yeah. again, I'm trying to think of like other instances where characters were used more in like media because of how they were presented in like the comics at the time but I mean that's really

it's really the big one I can think of I mean aside from like hmm I feel like it's a pretty fair I think it's a pretty fair thing to say that the best thing that Jason McIndale

ever did, aside from the little putting himself into a coma thing that we did at the very beginning of the show, is that the best thing he ever did was to be voiced by Mark Hamill. Yeah. We put that in the right end of the show. So all the shit in between.

Hamill has a good little run there of voicing and portraying characters in comic stuff because he was the trickster in the, like, two versions of the Flash. And also, But three versions, really, if you count the animated Justice League, where he came back and voiced the character again. And then, of course, Joker. So Hamill's got a nice little run there.

He's a very good voice actor. The way he did, like, the different voices for, because when McIndale is introduced in the animated series, he's, like, sort of kind of, kind of posh guy called Jason Phillips. who's like just trying to like get with Felicia and give across this air of like credibility and stuff and like he has such a

very pronounced like snobby voice which is completely different from the hobgoblin voice to the point where you really have to listen to it to pick up that it's Mark Hamill doing both it's really good voice acting he's very good

well there you go my favorite Mark Hamill voice acting bit is whenever he was in the Simpsons he voiced himself in the Simpsons he said I will voice myself

on the Simpsons on one condition and that condition is that I get to do a different voice as a different character in the same episode and they said fucking of course

you're Mark So in that episode, Homer goes to like bodyguard school and there's like a crazy guy running the school and that is also voiced by Mark Hamel because that was that was part of the contract. And I'm like, you wouldn't know it. You heard it like if you heard him like I didn't the first time I heard that episode, I'm like that's, I didn't think that was Mark Hamel. I thought it was somebody else.

So he's very good, man. well and that's yeah as you mentioned that's the only real media portrayal that we've had of jason mackendale much less the hobgloven um i was gonna ask is there sorry oh go ahead well i was going to say i think we can see why that other than the animated series there has been no other representation of jason you know we were just talking about brand new day and how they're all these villains that they showed up for like five seconds got beat and that was their only portrayal. Like you mentioned Scorpion

getting broken out of jail just to get beaten up and put back in jail. Like, they could have done that with McIndale. You know? You got out of a spot like that in the MCU. I don't think that would have necessarily worked. I think if you have a guy dressed up

in an orange goblin mask, when they've already shown the Green Goblin in the previous film, I feel like that's a stickier situation to it on. A guy saw the green goblin on the news, got some inspiration, put on a costume, didn't realize there was more to it than that. Got shit kicked out of him by Spider-Man in five minutes. I mean, to be fair, the issue I had with that montage was that they didn't explain who these people were.

Like, if you know who these people are, it's fun. But they just said, Spider-Man beat some people up. So I guess you could have done that. But, you know, you know, I just know there's a lot of people clamoring for the Ned Leeds character. and those movies to become Hobgoblin and I just, I don't want to see that. That would be a fucking unmitigated disaster. I think that's fair to say.

If you never do that, please. I have no idea why they decided to name the character that, you know. But the whole point of Ned Leeds as Hobgoblin was that he wasn't the Hobgoblin, right? That's the whole point. I think it was Nick Spencer, did a bit where like, they brought Ned Leeds back in the dead

and then he became the Hobgoblin again or something like that. I'm like, just don't, don't. He's not the hobgoblin. That's the point of the bit. You don't need to do this. So, God bless. It is interesting.

It is interesting because you... I mean, we talked to, so to kind of keep things Jason McIndale oriented to a degree. We were talking, earlier he started out as the, as Jackalancehern, abandoned that persona, took on a new persona,

And I don't know if it made into the intro, but I mentioned, you know, my first exposure, Jason McIdle was an issue of Captain America where Falcon was disguised as Jackalanner and another villain says, hey,

I know you're not McIndale because I hear he's hobgobling these days. Who are you, you know? It's weird to think that other villains would, other guys would just pick up other failed villains's personas. I've always thought that was really strange because I get it. It's like,

on a surface level, it's like, oh, it's got notoriety. Yeah, but not good notoriety. Like, I wouldn't like, you're like, oh, I'm the fourth guy to be Jackalanorn. Why?

Like, fuck that. You know, you're going to inherit all the negative credit. Exactly happens all the time. It makes no sense to me. It's Spider-Man. It happens all the time. Well, I would argue, my opinion on this is to

once again, very briefly, bring it back to our pro wrestling. um uh neem is that for a long time I was very confused as to why people would want the hardcore championship yeah like why would you

want this raggedy ass fucking belt in order to get it you have to be hit over the head with a fucking chair like it doesn't seem like a belt worth winning and then you think well the reason to win it is because you won a championship in the wwee you have an accomplishment you've done something

if you are a very low level kind of mercenary or something like that and you have the option that put on a costume and gain a kind of power level like the hobgoblin or a jack-o'lantron it's a step up from where you wore

it's something at least you've got something it's not a great something it's still a raggedy-ass costume but it's something you know maybe better than what they had before Yeah, you know what you mean? You're still in the books.

You're like, I'm, you're like, why would you want to be the fourth hobgoblin or the fourth jackal lantern? But that guy can say, yo, dude, I was the fourth jackalander. That was me. The punisher kills you because you're so low level and no one gives a shit. Yeah. Very true. Very true. Well, I mean, is there any closing remarks you'd like to place on Jason McIndale?

Because I know next week I believe we're going to be talking about the hobgob you'd prefer to talk about, which is Roder Kingley. yes i so i i'd say this is john earlier but like the first hobgoblin i ever saw was mackendale because i watched the tv show and then after the animated show i picked up the comics and i picked up the comics like right whenever mackendale was the hobgoblin doing the um cybernetic enhancement so like he was he was my hobgoblin when i started reading comics and he was a loser but like i have a I have a real soft spot for him. You know, I really do.

So I also, if you look at the... J.R. Jr. did the drawings for him with this cybernetic shit. He looks cool as hell. Yeah. Sick as fuck, dude. Oh, my God. So, yeah, I'm like... Yes, he's a loser, but I'm also like, I'm a big fan.

He's your loser. He is, and I can empathize for the loser. Well, speaking of emphasizing with losers, John, what's your movie count out for the year so far? I don't know. I don't know if I like that. Sometimes she's got to force a segue.

I don't think either walk well in that segue. All right. Well, my movie count is now up to 931 movies for the year. Yeah. I think you're ahead of schedule of, like, breaking your record.

Yeah. So you set your record last year and you, yeah, you set your new record last year, and I think you're about to break, you're going to break it this year again. It seems likely, yeah. So I know you were watching a movie. So God knows how many I'm going to watch next year. So I know that you were watching a movie before we started recording. What were you watching?

I was watching Gone with the Wind Classy Which is four hours long It has an intermission in it It has an intermission It has like an intro as well Where it spends three minutes just Playing music to begin with

And then another three minutes at the end Where it's again just playing Outro music and it's like Guys this movie is long enough as it is We don't need to be extending it with this bullshit Back in the day, going to the theater was an experience. Yeah. So what did you think of Gone with the Wind aside from the length?

I mean, it was fine. I don't kind of see why people regard it as one of the all-time greats. It's a bit too melodramatic for me. God is my witness. John will never watch Gone with the Wind again. I hope not. Geez. I mean, once is enough.

Wow. So what would you give it on your letterboxed? I haven't written the review yet, but I think I'll probably give it three stars. Because I, you know, like Vivian Lee is admittedly really good in the lead role. And there's some good moments in there as well. But I mean, yeah, I can't go higher than that. Clark Gable is that his most Clark Gable. He's a bit rapy in it, which is a bit jarring, considering he's like, you know,

he's all smiles and charm until he gets really angry and then grabs her and drags her upstairs to the bedroom. Yep. And then she wakes up the next morning looking all happy. Satisfied, yes. She's like, that was a good time, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Like, hmm.

There's an old Western, and I keep seeing clips of on Instagram. of a cowboy and he takes forcefully grabs this woman and puts her across his knee and starts spanking her and their kid is watching and he's like oh, Daddy must really love you because he's punishing you. And I was like,

all right. That was the takeaway from that. Interesting. Interesting. Because she went from being... Is that written by the same guy you did Wonder Woman? Potentially. Old Marston was putting his fingers

and everything back then and everyone. Anyway, that being said, John, where can they see your reviews of Gone With a Wind and other classics that you might have, you know, more middling opinions on that others might perceive? They can head to Letterbox and find me at Big John Bouske homeward. And Dylan, what have you been up to this week? Well, not a lot, man. Not a lot. Sometimes they stream on Twitch at Spookleroo, where I drop it. pictures and I need to get back into it more.

Because I have a lot of stuff that I'm drawing and those pictures I animate and turn them into videos that I upload to YouTube at Team Crows and I on TikTok at Team Crows Studios. I think we're on Facebook as well. So if you want to check that out, that would be cool. You don't have to. You can do whatever you want. All right. Well, as for me, I have the other shows that I do new number ones, which last week I did a double review on because I didn't review the week before.

And I have large old cup, which is going to be returning shortly. And I also have Opel City Archives, which will be underway shortly as well. We're just putting some final touches on it. And then we'll get that in motion. Very exciting. Very, very much. So, but until the next time where we will be discussing a more intimidating and successful hobgoblin, we will see you guys then. Goodbye.

Goodbye. Bye-bye. So I think John's microphone does have to fail. It just has to fail at the beginning of the episode as opposed to the end.