The Smark Avengers - Vol 4, Ep 31: Ranking 25 X-Men Members | Ultimate X-Men Tier List

Episode Date: September 26, 2025

🧬 The X-Men Tier List you’ve been waiting for! Corey, Dylan, and Jon rank 25 of the most iconic X-Men members from across Marvel Comics history. Using a tier-maker, we sort the mutants into S, A, B, C, and F tiers—and no character is safe from debate. From legends like Wolverine, Cyclops, Storm, Jean Grey, and Magneto to fan favorites like Nightcrawler, Gambit, Rogue, and Jubilee, this episode is full of hot takes, controversial calls, and plenty of laughs. Who makes it into S-Tier greatness? Who falls all the way down to F-Tier shame? You’ll have to listen to find out. 👥 In this episode we cover: The ultimate X-Men ranking tier list Why some iconic mutants are overrated (or underrated!) Divisive debates between Marvel fans and casual readers The funniest arguments over where certain characters belong This is the definitive X-Men tier list—but we want to hear from YOU. 💬 Which X-Men would YOU rank in S-Tier? Drop your rankings in the comments! 👉 Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and hit the bell for more Marvel tier lists, X-Men discussions, and comic book debates from the Smark Avengers crew. Click the link for Dylan's radio show!: http://www.bouncedigitalradio.co.uk Click the link for Dylan's Twitch stream: http://Twitch.tv/spookylaroux Click the link for Jon's Letterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/bigjonbowski/ Click the link for Corey's project "Henry's Usual": https://www.tumblr.com/henrysusual Click the link for Corey's show "Large Old Cup": https://open.spotify.com/show/2YHMppnl9inQevwLIxR64f

F, B, or A, or S. By the way, what does S stand for? John was asking, and I'm not sure. I know it's a video game thing. It's kind of, it's a Japanese thing. The way I understand it is, it's based on the way grades working in Japan. Okay. School grades.

But, like, S is like an A-star for us. I don't know what it would be for America. Yeah, A-plus. A-plus. Yeah. A-plus, A-star. It's like, I think it's supposed to stand for, like, super or like special i think okay because it's like you know the rank above a and then video

games took that in as well you you which is where a lot of people know it from like capcom games usually yes right yeah you know Sonic adventure that if you do good you get an a but if you do great you get an s and i it's supposed to i think it stands for special i i'm not a hundred percent sure it might not stand for anything the way that a and b and he don't stand for anything it's just ass is like that's the that's the best one um i think in video games it started that it stood for special or super because you were like super rank or special rank um but i i i'm not i'm not sure i think in japan in the creating system i don't think it means anything it's just like a star or a plus whatever well i think that's a that's a a very clean way

to introduce the show. So welcome the Smart Convinters, everybody. We learned something. Yeah, we learned something. This is educational. We'll talk about. Okay. Yes.

What if I just said was pure bollocks. To quote the great David Lee Roth, speak what you know and make everything else sound convincing. Mm-hmm. Speak bollocks. So yes, hi, welcome to Smorgaventers. My name is Corey, and with me is Dylan and John. How's it going, guys?

Good. Not too shabby. Good, good. A couple of months ago, if you're asking why we're talking about what S rank means, we did a tier list, a series of tier lists grading Batman villains. And the way we did it was each of us did it. There was this episode with Dylan, an episode with John, and there was an episode where we compiled all three of ours and basically came up with

an average. It caused some debates on, you know, where does penguin lie? Where does Joker lie? You know, and it was a good time in that sense. So we're not an X-Men podcast, but I thought it would be a good idea if we gave the X-Men a similar treatment. So this is a Smart Avengers tier list, made it ourselves. So we're not, because that was another factor as we were using someone else's

tier list they made on the website and they didn't include Mr. Freeze and their Batman villains for whatever reason. This one we made we made ourselves so we took basically the first 25 X-Men we cut out some of the people like we didn't put changeling or mimic or people like that on there. We we kind of kept it true in blue so we got 25 names that we thought were important enough and we're basically going to compile the Smark Avengers official X-Men tier ranking. So you guys excited to do that? Yes.

Yes. But I do have a question. Are we doing it by, like, our own personal preferences? Or just in terms of how important we think they are in the X-Men hierarchy? This is very interesting. Like, we need to sort this idea. Some people could be like, listen, we all know that, like, Cyclops is, in X-Men terms, like, a big, important character. but some people don't like Cyclops.

So, like, I would be written on importance in the X-Men comic or your own opinion. I mean, if we didn't do it by our own opinion, what would be the fun of doing it? Right? Okay. Yeah. Okay. Because, I mean... Well, like, with a Joker.

Well, yeah, but that was the problem is that you were outvoted on that one. But that's what I said in my episode. Yeah. That's exactly what I said in my episode. is that I put him an F but society is going to be a way. We live in a society. That's what happened.

That's what happened. But yeah, yeah, like I said, I figure, but I mean, yeah, exactly. So when we came in to do our combined list, you made your argument, and I made my argument, and John made his argument. We kind of had to get to a point

where we either all agreed or we had a majority vote. So that's kind of like... And everybody ignored what you said. So that's, kind of what we're going to be doing is, like I said, I think it's more fun if we do our own personal preferences, uh, because if not, I mean, fuck, most of these people would be asked here just because they've been on the team forever. What's the fun of that? Yeah. Sounds like a planet. Okay. So, uh, this is the, if you go up here, the Smart Avengers X-Men ranking list. Uh, I don't know if this is public or not. I can make it public, I'm sure. If you want to, if those listening at home want to come up and, you know, challenge us on this. But as you can see, we have 25 X-Men down here at the bottom. We could run through them now or we could just run through them as we're doing it.

I feel like it would just be easier if we did that, if we just ran through them as we were doing it. So, as you can sell, we have the, we have the S ranking, which Dylan started the episode off by explaining to us. A, B, C, and then we jumped to F. We could have gone to D and E, but I feel like that's already, that's enough options. I think five is fine. Okay. Okay. So up first we have Charles Xavier.

Charles Xavier, of course, the X-Men named after him, one of the world's greatest telepaths. We did a whole deep dive on Charles a couple years ago, a couple of years ago, a couple months ago. And that was a two-parter. And basically kind of went over his highlights and low-lights, which involved a lot of manipulation. but where do you put Charles Xavier on your tier list? I mean, I would say he's a good solid A tier because he's obviously the founder of the X-Men. He's, you know, been involved in a lot of the major storylines over the years.

And yeah, he's basically led the team as well. So he's a pretty important character, I'd say. Okay, I would have said B tier because I don't, I think he's an important character, but again, like we established right off the bat. That's not what we're going with here. That's not the defining factor. For me, like, how excited are you to read a Charles Xavier story? How good has he been as a character? Like how, like we covered this in the Xavier miniseries that we did.

A lot of the stuff they's involved with, you kind of like, this isn't great, or this is weird, or, you know, the character is weird. For me, like, he's a good character to have, an important character to have, but he's never really been, like, the best character, you know? Yeah. In terms of, like, fun and reading and stuff, I, he's had some highlights for sure. like there's definitely been some good points but for me I would say B like middle of the road kind of thing maybe well B is not already middle of the road I guess

but like you know what I mean like well it is on our list it's the third out of five and this he is but like you know you go on the scene and then you go to app there's a big jump you know um so like I I would say B because like that's a I think that's a good place to put him because it's not like overly

you know right at the top but it's also not like he's the shittiest character ever I would I would agree with you on B, just for the simple fact that the X-Men over the years have done a really convincing argument of saying he's not necessary to them. You know, because, like, there are stronger telepaths than him. There are stronger leaders than him. And honestly, like, Utopia was probably the, the whole Krakoa storyline was probably the kindness,

the kindness of the writers have been to Charles in years. I mean, even now, you know, they had the escape. from Gray Malkin and the storyline, the X-Man hunt where it seemed like half the people that wanted to capture him was because they were like, he makes

everything worse. So I mean, it's like he's so bad they just sent him up to space. And I think they announced that there's an exiles book coming out soon that Charles will be a member of. So I mean, I don't.

Right, but are you excited? Are you interested? This is here, the X-Ols are coming back with Charles Xavier in it? You're like, all right. Yeah, it's like the Starjammers, Lilandra, Xavier, and Kid Gladiator from the Wolverine and X-Men run. So, yeah, it just sounds like filler. So, yeah, Dylan and I, Dylan and I think B-E-tier. John, are you convinced on B-tier, or is there an argument you want to make that you should be higher?

I mean, I'm not going to, you know, die in the hill for Charles Xavier. So I'm happy with Beatier. All right. He's a bit of a dick. So we put Xavier into B tier. Okay. Up next, we have the first of the X-Men, the first recruit. We have Cyclops.

You know, Cyclops historically always been the leader of the team, except for a few periods of the time where he wasn't. And he was off leading a different team at that point. literally been in X-Man since he was like 16 years old. I had a brief foray as a kind of an anti-hero. And currently the leader of the adjective-less X-Men in Alaska. So thoughts on Cyclops. I would also put him in B because I never really like Cyclops.

I don't think he's terrible, but I also think that like he's become a crutch for the X-Men a lot. Like, I didn't like his run as, like, an anti-hero, like, kind of dig. I didn't like that at all. And I thought that, like, for a lot of the time,

whenever he was the, um, the leader, he was just kind of, like, it wasn't much to his character. He's just kind of a bland guy. And I don't get why he is always,

like, the de facto leader. You know, like, they've had Storm and other people, like, lead the X-Men, and they've been interesting and fun. It's weird that they keep going back to Cyclops. For a long time, like didn't really have much of a personality.

So like, I think he's a good figurehead. He's a good, like, image to put on the X-Men. But, like, for me, he's never been, like, the most interesting X-Men. So I would probably say the B again. John. I mean, I was going to go A. I think he's had some interest in stuff happen. Like, the whole relationship with Gene Gray and then,

when she seemingly died like hooking out with madeline prior and then you know like um like you say all of the stuff where sort of when he became disillusioned with charles xavier and the way he was like sort of running things then he sort of took on this harder edge to uh kind of you know like for mutant rights and stuff and then he sort of became more influenced by magneto and like there was good character development there and i think he's been in some good stories over the years as well so yeah i would definitely put him in an aid here i honestly i agree with john on that one for me cyclops is one of those characters who's kind of synonymous with the x-men um his leadership aspect is such an important part to the character but there's

also i don't know i really have been digging what they've been doing with him and the of this X-Men with Jed McKay. You know, he's a character who has been kind of dealing with, like, panic attacks and anxiety from having to lead the team, but also having to put up the strong front because it's what's expected of him because he's been doing it literally his entire life. I even really enjoyed that period of time where there was the time displaced X-Men, and the young Cyclops broke away from the group and was in the champions and had his own solo series where he was in space with his dad.

So I've always really like Cyclops. I think the power set while one note has always been used in really interesting ways. So yeah, I would agree with John on A. Okay. I mean, I could see it. I just never really like Cyclops. Like, I just thought he was really boring. All right, so we will throw Cyclops in A.

All right, up next we have, we have Bobby Drake Iceman. It B-tier, Ice Man, much like Cyclops Xavier, characters we did deep dives on previously. I'll be honest with you, this is a character I would put in C-tier, even though he is an alpha mutant, or a mega-level mutant. Because I just, to me, there has never been a good Ice Man story. I have never seen an Ice Man story or Ice Man's appearing in the series. I got to read it. And I don't know. I just have never felt the character has been relevant.

and I know they've tried, you know, he's obviously very important to the LGBT community as an openly gay mutant these days. But again, I just, there's nothing about him that is exciting to me. Right. I feel like if you're your big character defining trait, is it you're gay, you're like, that doesn't... Well, and it's... That's not a treat.

Yeah, it's like his two big character traits that people bring up, or roll three, if you really want to count it, is, He's, he's, like, best friend is Kitty Pride. He is a gay mutant. And also he is an omega-level mutant. And I feel like they've, there's just nothing to the character aside from that. Right. You know, I would have said, I totally agree with it.

I would have said C. Because, like, he's never the main character in the X-Man. He's a great, like, X-Man. He's a great character in the, book the X-Men. He's a great member of the team. But he's never like, you're never, you're never reading the story about Iceman.

You're never excited to see a story about Iceman. He's, like, he's a good, in a team book, he's a great member of the team. But I wouldn't, I wouldn't really be like, oh, you got to read the Iceman story, you know? So I think C is pretty fair.

John? I mean, I would have even gone F. I do not care for Iceman you know much at all so I mean can I Hey if you guys I'll fucking change my vote I thought C was harsh

You can Do you want this do F? Yeah I'll change my vote Like Not a whole lot of people Gonna go into F so like Well so yeah Well but here's the thing though

I know for a fact This character is popular amongst a group of people When he started showing up an exceptional X-Men. I saw like some people online that were like, yes, can't believe yes, Ice Man's back on this book. And I think they just like Kitty

Pride and they like that Kitty has someone to talk to. That's not Emma Frost. All right. We'll get to those. Yeah, we'll get there. Up next we have Beast, Hank McCoy, the first X-Men character we did a deep dive on. So Beast has been a hero.

He's been a villain. Uh, his appearance has changed drastically. He has done things for the good of mutant kind, both positive and negative. Um, a very nuanced character. So what are your feelings on Hank McCoy? Ass. Yeah. I don't know, man.

Like, I, I, I've, you know, we've been pretty vocal about my love for the beast. But again, like, the way he's been treated, the last. couple of years has been really weird and like out of character and didn't always play the right way um i think if you if you look at his stuff before that it's like a i would say it's a strong a me personally i would say yes but i think that if you look at the stuff before like the krekoa stuff uh beast is like a strong a so i'm going to say s but i think we all knew i was going to say yes and i will I can understand why you guys wouldn't because like I said, the last the Ciccoa stuff was a weird move.

It was weird, but I quite enjoyed it. Like, I've just finished reading, like, all the ex-force run. Oh, did you get to the end where they, where they, uh, they fixed the beast problem? Uh, yeah, yeah. Wasn't that anticlimactic, though? Like, they just wrapped it up in, like, one page? I mean, that it was a, a little bit more than one page, but it was

quite sudden, and like you say, it was a bit sort of, it wasn't the most exciting end into the book, but it felt like, even in the sort of the page after where, I can't remember who wrote it now, but like, Benjamin Percy. Yeah.

Yeah. He, you like wrote like, oh, yeah, I hope to do way more than 50 issues, but like, you know, this is it. This is... Marvel is as far as it's going to go. It felt like, you know, there was more story to tell there

and given the chance it could have expanded on it, but what it was, I quite enjoyed that whole storyline. But even then, I wouldn't... I would probably put Beast as like a B tier for me. Okay. Interesting. Corey, you're going to have to do some work here.

I... Well, here's the thing. I would go A. I like Beast a lot. Beast is another character that I so strongly associate with the X-Men. Plus, Beast was the first character that really broke out of the team with the Sten on the Avengers. I mean, there's a lot more nuance with Beast than I think people want to give him credit for it. Because I think people just kind of slot him in the de facto, well, he's the smart guy on the team kind of role.

That, yeah, I don't know. I enjoy the more childish things that they will do with him, you know, in the past. because I was like, you know, when I was thinking of Beast, I always thought of the X-Men cartoon. And in the very first episode, like, they show him, like, clowning around with Morp. You know? Yeah. So I think he's a nuanced character who is capable of very good and very bad things.

I know that's something that the character is currently grappling with in Jed McKay's X-Men book. Because he is a technically a clone from a simpler time for Beast that is aware of some of the horrific things that he has done, you know, as a, you know, the real beast, quote unquote, did. So I don't know. I like the character. Power set-wise, it's not the most exciting thing in the world. I mean, acrobatics, you know, he's blue and furry.

But I think that he's a character with a lot more variety that you can do things with than some of the other names on this list. So I go, hey. Yeah. Should we say A? That's fair enough. So we just take the average? I'm happy with it.

Yeah. Yeah, okay. We'll throw him in A with Cyclops. Like he said, man, like he is really recognizable. The cartoon did a lot for him. Kelsey Grammar. Yeah. Like, you know what you mean?

What more do we have to say? That's true. Well, speaking of character... I'm saying that because we're about the, you know, we're patting the beast art, because this next one is not going to take a long time. I don't think it will either. So up next we have Warren Worthington, the third angel,

also known as Archangel, also known as death. I'll start it off because I'm usually the person of the kinder thing say about Angel. I like the character a lot. Again, I think there's a lot of variety you can do. I like a character with simpler powers because they get forces the writers to be more creative with what you can do with them.

But that being said, a lot of Angel's storylines have always revolved around, like, the grasp of control that he has over the Archangel alter ego. I think power set-wise, when he is in the Archangel form and he has, like, the bladed wings, that's obviously a big upgrade over just having the fluffy white ones that help him fly. But I'd go C tier for him, honestly. What did you say C? I'd go C for Angel. just because I like the character, but I'll also acknowledge that they don't do too much with them aside from the Archangel storylines.

I'm going to go AF, like, nobody cares with Angel. They just don't. They tried making them interesting. It didn't work. Nobody cares. And like you said, it's always like either Angel or Archangel. Is he good or is he bad? Like, no, by this point, nobody cares.

They have. I was going to say C as well, because I figure, like, the first initial Archangel storyline where he's he loses his wings in the Muton Massacre and then

Apocalypse kind of finds him and basically turns him into Archangel like that was a pretty good storyline but like you say they just kind of keep going back to the well once too often and it's just always like is he good, is he bad

who cares nobody cares yeah but like that because the initial storyline was so good I would pick him in C rather than F

right but like one good storyline out of 80 years or whatever that's one more than Iceland's had that's one more than Bally Drake

right that's what like you know that's why they're to me they're pretty like they're not that dissimilar from each other

like they're in the CM bracket that's what I think you know so so dylan is this is one of those impasses that we're going to reach because two of us say c and you say f or or are or i don't care about you don't care but i don't care but i don't care but fair enough which is part of my point it's part of my point but fair enough fair enough so up next we have the first uh female member of the group uh this is jean gray aka marvel girl a.k.a. Phoenix. You know, usually when we do these sorts of things, we specify which version or whatever, but I mean, this is the entire character.

So, I mean, this is the Phoenix. This is one of the most powerful cosmic beings in the galaxy, on top of already being one of the greatest, strongest telepaths in the world. So thoughts on Gene Gray. I would say A, dear. I think they have been able to tell a lot of different storylines with Gene Gray. It's not always been, oh, she's a Phoenix. I think they go to the well one too many times with that, but I don't think that's the only story they have told with her. I think she's capable of a lot.

I think she's an interesting character, very recognizable, very powerful. I would say a... John? Yeah, I would agree with that as well. like I think you know obviously she's

had some pretty significant moments in X-Men history and yeah one of those rare characters who actually stayed dead for long time like quite a long time

so you know like I think she stayed dead for a long time twice then she didn't she? Yes well yeah Yeah, technically.

The first time... And the second with a few years, and then... Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I would stick it in the 80, I reckon. I won't disagree with that. Honestly, I was surprised. I thought Gene would be our first S-tier.

But yeah, no, I mean... To me, Gene is Jean. I've never found her to be super interesting. But, I mean, she is a linchpin to a lot of storylines. and I will say the one mark that will always go against her, my opinion is I'm not a fan of the Wolverine Cyclops, Gene Gray, Love Triangle. I had so played out after however many damn years it's been. We can thank Hickman for bringing that back up with the whole making them a thruple thing that the current editor-in-chief, you know, basically tries to deny. But, oh well.

So, yeah, we'll put Gene Gray over into A-tier. Up next, we have our first departure outside of the original X-Men lineup. We have Lorna Dane, aka Polaris, the green-haired mistress of magnetism. I'll go ahead and start off. Lorna is not a character we've talked about on the show. We're going to get to her eventually, as we're doing our deep-dive and X-Men characters, I'm sure. But Lorna is a character I've always associated more with X-Factor from the 90s in Peter David's run. I'm fine with Lorna.

I would probably put her C tier, though. I mean, the power sets, the power set. The whole, is she really a Magneto's daughter? Is she not Magneto's daughter? Because she doesn't seem as important in the scheme of things as like Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver in that regard. She almost kind of feels like the middle child, even though she's probably not.

But yeah, I think she's a fine character, but I probably wouldn't do much more than C tier for her. um i agree i was going to say c because i think that she's a good character but not a great character she's not really like super interesting or always like in storylines or um like there's stuff you could do with her but they don't really do anything with her so yeah i would say i would say see yeah i agree as well like uh you know her power set you've already got a guy with the exact same power set but like amped up even further so yeah like you know she doesn't really offer much in terms of like powers but in terms of character as well and stuff like that she i don't know she's never

really grabbed me so uh yeah c i mean i could have even gone with f but i'm happy with c i think c's good Okay. Next up, we have Alex Summers, aka Havoc, Cyclops' little brother. Alex was a member of the X-Men originally after being introduced, and then he went on to be the leader of X-Factor when they were a part of the government program under Valerie Cooper in the 90s again with Peter David. He had a stint leading the uncanny Avengers in the most recent years. Um, Havoc's powers are definitely interesting with sort of like these uncontrollable energy bursts.

Uh, something I've always saw interesting was that the Summers' brothers' powers don't really, they, they cancel each other out if they try to use them on one another. But Alex's main defining trait is sort of an inferiority complex. Uh, never sees himself as good a leader as his brother. Never sees himself as worthy of the person he's romantically involved. in. Also, the kind of odd, maybe not hero

worship of his brother and the fact that he was in a relationship with Madeline Pryor recently is also a little weird. Like, let me date your brother's ex, but also she's a clone demon from hell kind of deal, regardless. Havik,

I would also put in CTIAR along with Lorna, who was his very on again, off again, romantic partner. I would put Havik and half tier because I don't care about havoc I mean I would go see because like I

quite enjoyed that uncanny Avengers run where he was leading the team that's like the most I've ever kind of cared about havoc as a character so I don't think he's completely

worthless but it's definitely not one of my favorite X-Men yeah he's not completely worth this ice man he's not an ice man tier but I mean, like I said, I was a big fan of the 90s X Factor Rome of Peter David,

so I have a lot of fond, you know, feelings towards Alex. Okay. So are we good with C tier? Again, I don't, I don't care enough to be able to argue it, so that's fine. All right, somebody... This is what I'm saying, though, how the game is it so boring? Like, who cares? So is it just these are the characters that are kind of boring,

and then Iceman's a character who just has no storylines going for him? That's how we're ranking them. Yeah, it's just, like, he's super, like, it's, you know, this is, if you're reading a book, like, who do you want to read? I love reading a book with Beast in it. I couldn't, couldn't tie you anything about Iceman, you know? All right, well, up next, we have a character that I have a strong feelings that we're going to rate pretty highly. Kurt Wagner, uh, Nightcrawler. So this is our first from the giant-sized X-Men lineup.

Uh, Nightcrawler, of course, the, the demonic-looking teleporter. A long-time member of the X-Men went on to become a member of Excalibur. Had a period of time where he also was dead for a good couple of years. Came back and was put in charge of creating a religion for the X-Men on Crocoa.

Then he did a stint of Spider-Man, essentially, in a miniseries called The Uncanny Spider-Man. And currently is helping Rogue and Gambit mentor these these young kids in Louisiana in Gil Simone's uncanny X-Men. Sort of a very slapdash, you know, review of him. Any thoughts on Nightcrawler? I don't know if this is controversial,

but I would have put him in B-tier. Like, I like Nightcrawler, but I would love Nightcrawler. Do you know what I mean? I think he's a good character, very recognizable, lots of fun. But, and like, he's had good storylines and stuff, but like I would never I don't think he's like ever like you know that that high up I would say B I don't know if that's because B's still pretty good it's pretty good yeah but I mean he's almost like the heart and soul of the X-Men I would put him A tier he's you know obviously like he's had a lot of

storylines based around his religion and stuff and how important that is to him but he's also got his like whole history with his parents as well like mystique and as braille like he's had issues with that and stuff like i think he's had some some pretty good stories over the years didn't they didn't they make it official of his mystique and destiny yeah that mystique was in the appearance of a zazel. Oh, really? Yeah, so there was a one shot called X-Men Blue, John, that was during the, uh, during the end of the Kerkah period. It was happening at the same time as the Uncanny Spider-Man miniseries.

Huh. Okay. I haven't read that. I don't know if it'll come to a trade or not. I'm not sure how you would put, because it was uncanny or X-Men Blue was a one-shot. So I don't really know how they would bundle that into a trade. but in case you don't get around to reading it, that's essentially what it occurred. Okay, fair enough.

Hi, Corey. Yeah, no, I would go A tier for Nightcrawler. I think Nightcrawler is very recognizable. I love, I'm not a huge fan of Catholic Nightcrawler. I really hated the period of time and they had him in a little priest collar. I have always been a big fan of, like, the fun-loving Swashbuckler. Plus, he's like one of the few people, Wolfieckler. Vareen can stand to be around, which is always, you know, kind of fun to see their dynamic.

I really like Nightcrawler, and I think that's, again, he's a character that has a lot of nuance with Mystique, his sister, Rogue. There's just a lot you can do with them. So I'd go A-tier. That's fair. I see, I thought that's what you guys were going to do. That's why I said maybe my B-tier is controversial, but like... I don't think it's controversial. If you had said, like, F-tier, I think that would be controversial.

You think night crawlers the same as Iceman? Please, give him some credit. All right, up next, we have Loken, aka James Howlett, aka Wolverine, Antimantium's skeleton, essentially immortal, got the claws. When you think of the X-Men in the 90s, you think of fucking Wolverine. He was everywhere and still, well, no,

they've kind of calmed down on that. He doesn't, he's not in almost every fucking Marvel book like he was back in the 2000s of 2010. But yeah. Wolverine, Wolverine got around a lot. He's still very much a prominent member. He's got his own solo book. He's had multiple movies where he was played by Hugh Jackman. So, so yeah, thoughts on, thoughts on Wolverine. This might sound controversial. I'm also going to put Wolverine in B tier. I never, I think part of it was like the over exposure. to Wolverine that everybody had where I was just never a big Wolverine fan

I've been going back and reading some of the Chris Claremont stuff and I think that he did a very good job of writing Wolverine he seems like a fun character but like he still has an edge to him and I liked obviously I like the Grant Morrison run with Wolverine and that but for the most part

like I just I get it you know I get it he's just like way too overexposed way too overplayed and I don't think that a lot of writers like get you know wolverine they just make them this tough gruff whatever i'm like there's you know if you're going to do stuff with them do it don't do what they have been doing i don't i i say i know because he's the joker complex i know because he's wolverine he's going to get ranked very highly but for me personally i think he's just okay so i would say b tier for wolverine

and this is not me like obviously if you look at the impact he's had and the popularity and yada yada we're not doing it like that it's your own opinion my opinion is Wolverine here I'm gonna tell you I'm dreading the day

that we get to our deep dive on Wolverine because that'll be like a three-parter because they just they have done so much with the character um I see here's the thing

I'm not a huge Wolverine fan, but I do enjoy reading him, which doesn't sound like it makes any sense, but it just is. You know, like, I'm not going to read, like, go out of my way to read a Wolverine book, except sometimes I have.

So it doesn't make any sense for me, but I do like the character. I liked him a lot more when they didn't try to explain his backstory, and it was all mysterious, and then, like, someone would, like, he'd go somewhere, he'd, like, go to Japan, and then someone would recognize him,

And it was just like you'd have no real memory of what had happened. And, you know, it was just kind of fun, like, piecing it together and, like, coming up with your own theories about, like, what was this, what was this guy like before the X-Men? But, um, I don't know. I feel like, I feel like he has to be at least a tier or it's a disservice to the character. Well, fuck him. Uh, John. I mean, there's Wolverine. He's S-tier all over.

He's not S-tier. He's 100% S-tier. He's like one of the most important characters in the X-Men's history. That's not what we're doing this on. We're doing a personal opinion. But yeah, that's my personal opinion. And he's always, like, his characterization makes him stand out as well. He's always had a cool character.

His, like, surliness makes him sort of, you know, have all these horrible. horrible, well not horrible, but like odd relationships with the other X-Men. So he's, you know, he's, he's interesting. And then he's had lots of different stories as well. I will admit that I think the more backstory that they've told of him, like the less interesting he has become. But like he's still Wolverine. And at the end of the day, he's like the guy who's going to snick his. claws and then illsome people so who doesn't love that I feel like the compromise is to paint here is it I mean we are spread three

between them and we are we already had to do that with uh who did we do it with we do it with Xavier Beast do a beast because I said S tier for beast okay yeah we did it with Bs so we put

using that same logic because you're going B John's going S and I'm going A, we're going middle of the ground with Wolverine and A tier. I think that's fair. John? I mean, yeah, I don't agree with that, but with the sake of moving on, let's take him in A. I'm just saying we have set up high expectations for S tier. Someone who I don't know, what the hell.

Someone who I feel like won't be getting S tier. This one's a little sad for me. I have a feeling that at least two of these X-Men are going to get fought very home. hard to be an S-tier. Yeah, I have a feeling as well. I know. I would be very upset if both of them don't get an S-tier, so.

So up next, we have a character who sadly I don't think is going to place very highly on this, but it's a character that I'm a rather big fan of. And that's Sean Cassidy, aka Banshee, Banshee joined the X-Men with

Giant Size X-Men. He is a fellow countryman of Dylan, being from Ireland, named after the folklore creature. Really, when I think of Banshee, I think of hanging out with Moira McTaggart on your island, and I think of leading Generation X with Emma Frost. And that's, again, where I became a very big fan of the character, was that Generation X run. Aside from that, Banshee probably died in one of the more humiliating ways, where he got hit by a fucking plane

because his powers were weakened and he couldn't stop it. And then he was dead for a long period of time. And then he got resurrecting Krakawa and then Moira McTaggart killed him and wore his skin so that she could get through the portals or some shit. I don't even fucking know

really what's going on. But Banshee is back alive and feeling sad and that's what they're doing with him these days. so that being said I would not be surprised see Banshee in our F tier I was going to say C tier okay

because I again I like the character I think that he did do some good stuff the fact that he stayed dead was quite a surprise because that doesn't always happen I suspect it's because nobody knew

what the fuck to do with him just to shame but like I thought he was like an interesting character he had an interesting like moves set you know power base he's never been like oh you gotta see banshee but I think that like he's a solid you know

that kind of character you know um so I would say C but I can I can understand arguers yeah

um for lower John I mean I would have gone because you know it's Banchi what the fuck has he ever done he was you know

he taught generation X we watched the movie we watched we watched the movie yeah that's a good point yeah can we go lower than F then hey

that Canadian did tried so hard with an Irish accent boy then that movie was a wonderful piece of cinema I mean, he died and no one really cared. No one was like clamoring for him to come back or anything.

Can I? Just like, oh, yeah. There's a weird nuance thing about that, though, because I remember, again, in Peter David's X-Factor, when he died, his daughter, Siren was like, people are like, oh, I'm so sorry to hear about your dad. And she was like, oh, you know, he's going to come back. They all come back. Everybody comes back. And she was like a complete denial. And I thought that was such a unique take.

This was really great. It was so good. She's like, oh, the ex-cule, they always come back. And everybody else was like, dude, he's dead. Yeah, he got hit by a plane. I remember that a lot. I thought that was really, really good. Peter David.

That's the odd thing about the whole Krakowa storyline, though, is like that, you know, it was, you know, made into this big deal when it was revealed that all the mutants were being resurrected. Well, these guys were coming back from the dead anyway, long before Krakawa came about. So who gives them? Yeah. Oh, but come on, don't you remember Jumbo Carnation? Everybody remembers Jumbo Carnation. I remember Jumbo Carnation because I loved to grab Marsden books.

And the whole point of Jumbo Carnation was that he died. That was the whole point. He was supposed to be a martyr that kicked off the riot of Xavier. He's not supposed to be. What's the point of bringing him back? You can kill him again? God, I don't know. Well, that way everybody could have new clothes for the Hellfire Gala.

What, what, what, um, ranking is Jumbo coronation? See? So, so I would, so by the way, yeah, because of the whole Generation X thing, I, I, I would put Banshee as C. Okay. So are we, are we happy with that? John, are you happy with that? Are you okay with that?

Uh, begrudgingly go along with that. Okay. I'll take begrudging. I'll take begrudging. I'll take you for grudging. All right. Up next, we have, is it, now here's the thing. It's Aurora Monroe, correct?

The pronunciation? Yes. Okay. A.K.A. Storm joined with Giant Size X-Men. She became one of Claremont's favorite characters to write. Very complex and nuanced character that has done and been in a lot of stuff going on, whether it be her childhood as a thief in Egypt and under the influence of the Shadow King, to being a member of the X-Men, losing her powers and fighting Callisto of the Morlocks,

and then fighting and beating Cyclops for leadership rights. And yeah, just kind of always being around. I mean, even now, she's essentially a god because she got a hell of a power upgrade by, you know, being associated with eternity. so I mean I kind of I mean we all feel very strongly about Storm so I would not be surprised if she's asked here yeah I was gonna say yes 100% yeah storm is cool she's badass she um can I tell you I think the worst thing you ever did with her was the marriage of Black Panther interesting I didn't think that I didn't like it it felt felt weird and hackneyed okay yeah um but to be yeah I mean I didn't read much of that, so I don't know.

But, like, the stuff that I have read from Storm, like, she's just such a, she's an interesting character. She's always, like, like, a focal point, which she should be. Like, she really is. She's really cool about it. Like, she's written very well a lot of the time.

Mm-hmm. I, yeah, 100% I would put Storm and S tier. That's what the S stands for. That's for Storm. There you go. Storm tier. All right. See, that wasn't that.

I don't feel like that was going to be that complicated. I was not in that at all the way. All right. So up next, we have the last of the giant size X-Men editions because we are not including Sunspot or Thunderbird because they did not last terribly long on the team. We have Peter Ross Sputon, aka Colossus. Colossus was one of the younger members of the team when he joined.

He came from the Soviet Union back when it was still the Soviet Union. And a longtime member of the team had like the weird, pseudo inappropriate relationship with Kitty Pride. People, by the way, freak the fuck out about that right now. I don't get it, but getting retroactively upset about something happened in the 1980s. Yeah, like we can't fix that. It's already happened. You fucking weirdos.

Anyway, Peter S. Pudin has always been the team heavy for the most part. Some of his bigger storylines, honestly, I would probably say choosing to sacrifice himself to cure the legacy. virus. His return in astonishing X-Men was a really big moment that was written and became a member of the Phoenix force. He became the juggernaut for a period of time. He was in the X-Force run that John just wrapped up. We could finally talk about it. He was being manipulated by his brother into being a unwilling spy for Krakawa and leader of the X-Force team for period. And then he, uh, from the ashes, in a move that didn't surprise anyone when they announced this lineup, there was a big beefy guy wearing a metal mask and they said his name was Tank.

And then the next to last issue they revealed it was Colossus the whole time for no real reason. But what are you going to do? Uh, how would you guys rank? Surprise. How would you guys rank Colossus? I would put him in A tier. I would like Colossus. He's a fun, cool character, very recognizable.

Um, He was the best character to the playoffs in the arcade game. Oh, yeah. I find... I love Planet's Glosses. He was my boy. The middle noise whenever you pick him. When you make him go madly, look, whirr.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Spam the shit out of that button every now and then. Yeah. Oh, my God, every time. I would say ATA for classes. John. I would have gone be.

Like, I mean... Okay. I like Colossus, but he's had too many years where he's just been sort of a sad sack character, which has kind of dragged him down a little bit for me. Yeah. The Kitty Pride thing is kind of weird. Yeah, I mean, it is. Yeah.

It was, I don't know why people are just noticing this, but it was fucking weird at the time as well. Because she was like 15 and he was like 19. But yeah, it was weird. Yeah. But then also the Kitty Pride stuff. I mean, in a move that has been forgotten, he'd got this massive chest tattoo in honor of Kitty Pride

when she was still trapped up in space in the bullet. I remember that big old chest tattoo that disappeared and, you know, what have you. And speaking of him being a sad sack, I mean, she left him at the altar. So, like, Peter is associated with a lot of melancholy and sadness, which I guess if you've read a lot of, like, Dostoevsky and Russian literature, I guess it's on brand.

I like the character a lot. I would go B tier as well because I just don't feel like they do enough with him. Okay. Yeah, I'm happy with B. I think that's fine. Well, Xavier finally gets company in the B tier. All right, up next, we just talked about her a moment ago. We have Kitty Pride. Kitty Pride, aka Sprite, aka Shadow Cat. Did she have any other names? Oh, she probably had a million But I can't remember off the top of my head Yeah, she had a lot of names

Kitty Pride She was the young, plucky new girl That was added to Claremont's X-Men run She became a focal point of the book A lot going on with Katie Pride A lot of iconic scenes Very famously though We're going to jump ahead

Past the brood storyline Where stuff happened with her That was pretty body horror-ish. Anyway, we talked about it in our last episode. She saved the world by using her powers to make a giant space bullet intangible so that it passed through Earth, and then she got stuck on it for a while. Got brought back by Magneto.

She became a teacher for the Jean Grey School in Krakawa. She became Captain of the Marauders. I still feel like that storyline with she couldn't use. the portals. She was like the only you couldn't use the portals. I thought that was that it ended on such a weird weak point and I felt like the mystery had such a poor conclusion.

Regardless, she's the one who broke bad when shit went bad during the Crocoa era and she single-handedly killed a bunch of dudes using the ninja skills that Wolverine taught her. Current day, she has wants nothing to do with the X-Men aside from being in a book called

Exceptional X-Men where she is mentoring three young mutants along with Emma Frost and Iceman. I know my feelings on Kitty Pride, the character, are not high. I'm not a fan of hers. But again, I feel like it would be a disservice if I did not have her at least at B. So I would go at A, though, because I think she is a character who's had a lot of story and a lot of importance. I would think you know how this works. You just said, I already like her.

I'm going to put her in A tier. Your opinion is I don't like this character, so she's at 8 here. Well, my, that's kind of the thing. I don't like the character very much, but I can't ignore the significance of the character. Yes, you can. What do you actually think about Shadow Cat? I mean, here's the thing. There's other characters that I like a lot that they are dependent on their relationship

with Shadow Cat. Colossus, Storm, Nightcrawler, and Wolverine. These are all characters that have a close bond with this character. that like if you were to take her away from them, there is an impact. That's kind of where I kind of feel like I can't separate her because she's so ingrained with other characters. Except for Iceman. I know, man.

I think you could. Yeah, well, you could definitely take Kenny Pryde away from Wolverine and you wouldn't notice because he gets a new teenage prodigy like every fucking week. You know, that's no deal. But the problem is, okay, we'll talk about that a little bit later with Jubilee, I'm sure. But every time Wolverine gets a new one, they don't have the staying power of Shadow Cat and to a lesser extent, Jubilee. Because there was that period of time where they were putting him with armor and, like, fucking nobody remembers armor. That's bad writing.

I like Shadow Cat, but not a lot. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's a good character. But it's never been one of my, like, go-to X-Men. It's never been like, oh, dude, Shadow Cat's super cool. I would have said like C tier, maybe B tier, but probably C tier in my own, like personally. I would have just said.

Yeah, probably C tier. All right, John? I mean, I'd go A tier. I think because of her, like, I've always liked getting pride anyway, but like, evolution over the, like, the years has been pretty cool. Starting off as like the sort of wide-eyed kid who's, scared and like she doesn't really know what's going on when she joins the X-Men but

the fact that she's grown up so much over the years and you know had to take on all these extra responsibilities and stuff like becoming headmistress at the

the Jean Grey for higher learning and and you know then come Krakawa like becoming the captain of the morators and stuff like that she's always been involved in stuff and like Corey was then she's got all these good relationships

that you can play on with so many other characters as well like yeah I think Kitty Pride is way too important in the X-Men to rank any lower than A okay again I'm willing to get see because I don't care enough of like kidding pride okay a character that I know you do care for though

is up next Anna Marie what is her last is it just Anna Marie for the longest time she's just been rogue yeah I guess he's Leboe now yep technically we have

we have Rogue so Rogovic was originally a member of the brother of evil mutants, with her power being the ability to absorb and steal other character's powers. She got a massive upgrade when she used that ability on Miss Marvel, aka Carol Danvers, and seemingly permanently kept her powers, so she gained durability, super strength, and the ability to fly. She joined the X-Men during the outback years, right? Where she was in Australia. Mm-hmm. Perfect. And, you know, basically, I think,

a lot of people became attached to Rogue in the 90s, thanks to the animated series. Her on again, off again, fling with Gambit over the years that eventually did conclude with marriage. And right now she is the leader of the uncanny X-Men in Gail Simone's book. So how would you rank Rogue?

I really like Rogue a lot. So, you know, personally I would say S-tier, I would understand an A-tier. I think she's really cool she's really like a lot of traits that Storm has but like she's a very different character you know very different

and there's a lot of nuance with her and you know the fact that she can't touch people and she's got a lot in her relationship with mystique and stuff there's a lot you can do with Rogue and a lot that people have done with Rogue I really like Rogue a lot so I would say

S-tier but I'm willing to to listen to what you guys have to say. John? I like Rogo a lot as well, but I wouldn't go as high as as ST. I would stick with A. I think she's a really good character. And like you say, her power set

makes her pretty unique and causes a lot of drama as well. And then there's the relationship with Gambit, which has always been great. so I don't think he's quite in the top tier but she's very very close okay I would honestly I'd be really tempted to put her in S tier as well

Rogue is another one of those characters who just always seems important to me yeah that power set like I said is unique the ability to steal people's powers on top of you know the Miss Marvel powers that she still has inexplicably especially now she has the ability to control that ability to steal powers which again

was a huge part of her character for years was that she couldn't touch anyone because she couldn't control it so there's a lot of like I said there's a lot too rogue and I would put her at S for that reason okay are you happy enough would you be okay John with us putting rogue I'm not going to argue with that okay so I'm going to ask you a question we're going to take a break

from hold on when we do something real quick we'll get a clean one okay um we have been recording now like officially for the episode for about an hour and we still have quite a number to go would you want to break this into two parts or just push forward i reckon we could probably just knock through it okay because i feel like some of these we're not going to have as much in the way of discussion on yeah i think so i think we can just fly through them okay all right up next we have rachel summer Rachel Gray slash Phoenix slash Marvel Girl.

She is the daughter of Cyclops and Gene Gray from an alternate timeline, where she was a bloodhound and would use her abilities to track down other mutants for her masters. Rachel, you know, has had the Phoenix Force in the past. She is, again, top-level telepath like her mother. She has been around for a good long while. she was one of the teachers at the Gene Gray School. She had prominent roles in Crocoa. I will be honest with you, I find her to be incredibly derivative.

I don't see the importance of her, and I don't see what she does that no one else can do. I feel like at the time she was introduced, it was important, and it was different, but I feel like, you know, if we, We can't have, you know, Nathan Summers X-Man, you know, in the regular continuity doing stuff. Why on earth do we have Rachel Summers? I would put her at F-tier. Okay.

I don't really know a lot about Rachel Summers. I would have said, see, just because she does do stuff and she is kind of important. But like, I don't know enough about her to go any higher than that. and I'm very easy to sway down to F tier if needs be I guess my thing is like I was gonna say C as well what my thing about it is they don't even like treat her like a daughter like Cyclops will have like father-son conversations with cable even though it is kind of awkward

I have never seen anyone take a parental role with Rachel but is that part of the character that she doesn't have anybody to talk to and like that's why he's kind of the... I don't know. I mean, the most family drama is she got upset that Cyclops cheated on Gene and changed her name to Rachel Gray. All right. What do we think?

We don't have a whole lot to say about Rachel Summers. What do we think? I think she's... You guys have a cool origin, but not much to her. So I would stick with to see. Okay. Okay. I will concede on that.

All right. Up next, we had a long episode talking about his or... origins and his backstory are one of our previous episodes. We tried to kill the motherfucker. Up next, Eric Lyncher, aka Magnus, aka what other names he used in the past. It's Magneto.

I mean, if you want a breakdown of Magneto, we, again, had a long episode about him, so to have that on that one. I feel like I know where this one's going, though. So, John, we'll go ahead and go first. We'll let John go first. Yes. Should we just put him an ass here and move on?

I feel like we should put him an ass to move on. But I intentionally went with the sick-ass Jim Lee art, because that to me is that's Magneto right there, glowering underneath that helmet. All right, up next, this one's kind of confusing, because it's kind of technically two characters at once. But we're going to go with Silak, aka Betsy Braddock. also at the same time Kwanan the

ninja known as what was their name was like Revanche yeah I could see why we called her Sylo why she kept the name Sylock instead but yes so Betsy Braddock joined the X-Men in the 80s in that period of time

her mind got swapped into the body of Kwanan and she kept the Silak name and for the longest time was a British woman in a Japanese woman's body and people didn't think that was weird until a couple years ago where someone went like, hmm, that's a little weird. We should probably fix that.

And then they did. Right now, currently, Betsy Braddock is Captain Britain. And she was on the X-Force team and that book ended very recently. Quannon is Silak, you know, in name. And she is a member of the adjective-less X-Men under Jed McKay. Kind of rushed through that because it's a little, like I said, it's kind of confusing. because Quannon died from the legacy virus and Silak for the longest time, you know, was Betsy Braddock and she had her on again, off again relationship with Angel. And then there was that weird period of time where she had the Hots for Cyclops.

And yeah, there's a lot to it and a lot of it is kind of nonsensical to a degree. But where would you guys put Cylock? I like Sylock. I would put her at B. You know, I think there's a lot of stuff you can do with her. she's a fun character also incredibly confusing backstory that can get sticky from time to time so i would say like nice in the middle would be yeah i would agree with that like if it was the the original sort of pink-haired british slylock uh or betsy i would probably put it lower yeah the the classic um sialk in

Guanon's body was a pretty cool character, so I would give it a solid B. I would agree. Cyloxomy is a B player. Not to say there's not interesting stories to tell with her, but I can't put her on the same level as, you know, Cyclops Nightcrawler, Wolverine. All right, up next we have Forge,

a.k.a. His name has somehow never been revealed. But Forge... That's his name. That's his name. Forge is his name. The name is Forge. Forge has the unique mutant ability of being able to basically build and invent anything that he wants,

which doesn't sound like a lot until you think about it, and it's actually pretty damn cool. For the longest time, like Forge has had kind of a checkered past working with the government, sometimes working for the mutants, sometimes kind of working against them. He had his romance arc with Storm that was always kind of heartbearing. breaking. Addition to that, he led the X-Force during a period of time where it was kind of run like the suicide squad where Mystique and Sabretooth were members. He was in a couple of different versions of X-Force.

In Krakowah, he was kind of a liaison for the X-Men where he wasn't, I don't think he was ever technically on the team, but he did a lot of shit for him. And after Krakawa, he was the leader of the X-Force book that didn't terribly, didn't last very long. What are your thoughts on Forge? I like Forge. I don't love Forge. I think that like... I mean, you spent three pounds on him. That's a character that's really interesting. Yeah. You know, money well spent. I got him for three pines. That's amazing.

But like, there's stuff you could do with him that I feel like they don't really do or have done. Like, I think he's a character with a lot of potential, but I don't feel like a lot of that potential has been realized yet. so like realistically like I like I like him but I don't know if you could go any higher than C can you maybe P but like I think he's like a C player yeah that's sort of what I was thinking as well like I like the character even though like on paper he's maybe not the most interesting of characters but his power set is pretty interesting on its own but like you say it hasn't it doesn't really get used as much as it should do um in like interesting storylines but i mean yeah i would still put them on c okay yeah i think that's fair i don't disagree

i am a big fan of forage but yeah i would i wouldn't put them any higher than c is sort of like to me like the the area of potential like there is stuff you can do with these characters but no one really has um yeah yeah that's fair so that now Up next, we have a character that I... Up next, we have a character who I feel like we'll also do pretty well amongst the three of us. It's Remy Labo, aka Gambit. Gambit was the kind of the son of the King of Thieves in New Orleans growing up. Remember the Thieves Guild ended up getting hooked up with the X-Men after hanging out with a D.H. Storm for a period of time

and acting as kind of a mentor for her. Gambit is a guy with a checkered past and doesn't really make any qualms about it. Had an unfortunate role in the Mutant Massacre that ultimately led him getting removed from the X-Men. Did a stint as the death horseman of the apocalypse, got better, was a member of Excalibur,

had a very short tenure on a strange run of X-Factor. And as of right now, is with his wife in his native Louisiana, raising a bunch of kids to control their meat and powers. Where do we put Gambit? Yes. John? I mean, if Wolverine isn't S tier, then neither is Gambit.

As much as I love Gambit, I would think him A tier. Gambit's the coolest X-Man ever. He goes into a fight with a pack of cards and a stick. like he is he's the hardest clearly the hardest ex-man um his stuff for rogue is amazing like if you're gonna put rogue in s here you can see where you put gambron nest here um he's just the best he's cool yeah i mean honestly john i'm the whole he's the whole piece of enough so i mean here's the thing about it john i i absolutely agree with dylan i think gambit's the fucking coolest ex man ever so i would absolutely put him in ass and i think that ability of like

Anything he touches can be a bomb is pretty OP. And I think that it gets explored every now and then. The fact that he uses playing cards is almost a kindness to people because he could do way more damage with bigger stuff. I think so. Yeah, like there's a guy, like he's just on character to read. I know this. Like when they write him, yeah, I think of the rate.

So I know that Gambit used to smoke in the comics, and they removed their hero characters from smoking cigarettes and cigars. So like Wolverine doesn't smoke cigars anymore. And I am probably the reason why that happened, because as a kid, I thought smoking cigarettes was the fucking coolest thing ever because of Gambit. Never smoked a cigarette in my life. But I was like, ah, see, that's cool as shit. Look at him. Look at him. He's the coolest.

He's the coolest. you're reluctant to do it, but we do outvote you on this one. Are you okay with that? I mean, I've got no complaints about it, but I'm just retroactively aggrieved that Wolverine isn't in the S-tier. If Gambit is.

Earlier, I... There's going to be two X-Men. We're going to fight for it to be an S-tier, and I was pretty sure those two were going to be Magneto and Gambit. And Magneto put up no fight whatsoever. So, I knew once Magneto skied through, like there's going to be some words about gambit but i'm very happy to see him and as here um he's just he's

way better than wolverine let's not get into it too much though all right up next we have jubilation lee aka jubilee uh due to her little firework powers uh started out as the plucky kid member of the x-men in the 90s then went on to become a member of generation x then became a vampire after losing her powers, then got better. Then was in Excalibur during the Kerkowa era after she got her powers back and stopped being a vampire. And nowadays, she is also with Rogue and Gambit and Wolverine and Nightcrawler raising those kids in Louisiana. Thoughts on Jubilee.

She adopted the baby as well. Well, she gave the baby up. What, when? Spoilers. A while ago. Oh, my God. It's anti-climactic. I think it's anti-climactic, so don't worry about it.

You weren't enjoying that Excalibur run anyway. You told us you weren't a fan of it. Don't worry about it. But yeah, thoughts on Jubilee. F. Yeah. I don't care about it. Really?

Wow. Wow. Okay. I am. The worst character at the TV show. Like, fuck me,

dude. Every time Jubilee was there, it's just awful, all spray fireworks at their face, didn't do anything. She was in the way more than she did any good. She was a vampire for no reason.

She lost a baby. And when I say lost the baby, I mean, she just didn't have it anymore. Jubilee just sucks as a character. All right. I would put her at C, but I will concede.

I mean, it's two to one on that one. so C, as in cat. I wouldn't put her a B. Her fucking name is Jubilatian Lee. Like, that's... Yeah, I kind of want to know who decided that one. That was a little much.

Up next, though, we have Lucas Bishop, a.k.a. Bishop, the time-traveling mutant from the future, whose powers are whenever he takes damage, he can put it right back out of his body in the form of a concussive blast. Uh, more often than not, though, he's a guy with guns. Uh, Bishop, you know, joined the X-Men after getting stuck in the past.

Uh, then he became a villain for a while and tried to kill a baby. And then we, we decided that we weren't going to acknowledge that anymore and was a member of the marauders in Krokoa. And I think most recently he's been, uh, hanging out with cable doing, uh, black op shit. This is shit I, I hate. Like, why would he be hanging up with cable? when he tried to kill cable and ruined like four different timelines trying to kill cable. Mm-hmm. Shit like that drives me nuts.

We all agreed. We're just never going to talk about Bishop again in that regard. Because he also got his arm ripped off and that got better. Yes. What? How? I don't know. It just did.

Don't worry about it. We're just going to act like it didn't happen. Well, if we act like that didn't happen, then I really like Bishop as a character. Again, I think he's got a lot of potential. One thing that I always wondered with Hakeem and Cable were like they were sent back from their future to stop their future from happening.

But then they just kept hanging out here. So I'm like, well, didn't your future get better? Like, I don't know. You just hide in the present. I like Bishop. I don't know if I could put him any higher than B.

I could see a B or C for Bishop. I like him and I would put him in B, but I could understand the C. John. You know? I mean, here's the thing. If you're talking about a guy coming from the future and carrying a big gun,

there's a better character than him, which we're going to talk about next. Correct. I would stick him in C tier. I think the problem what we're going to have is that whatever, tier Bishop is going to be below. Yeah.

Yes. It's always going to be at least one tier lower than cable. So that's where I would have said, I don't want to choreograph finding them, but I would have said B for Bishop, but I can understand a C. Because again, that's where the potential goes, apparently, you know, C for potential. Yeah. So. And to me, what makes Bishop a perfect C character is the fact that they won't let anything stick to him.

So, like, nobody has figured out a consistent, like, way to present him. Because I remember during like the depowered era where like the 198 mutants, Bishop became like the sheriff of, you know, mutant town and was like a cop for a hot minute of in time. So like they experiment with like, oh, we'll have Kate, we'll have Bishop do this now. But it never sticks for very long. So yeah, I think C is fair for Bishop. He should be higher, but they won't commit.

Yeah, that's fair. I think that's fair. All right. We talked about it a second ago, but here is also another man from the future who uses a big gun. We have Cable. Cable is the son of Cyclops and Madeline Pryor and was contracted the... What was...

Oh, God, what's the name of the virus that he has? The techno-organic virus. The techno-organic virus that is slowly turning his body into a... machine, uh, that he's been able to ward off for years using his very strong mutant power of telekinesis. He doesn't use terribly often, mostly because he's using it to keep his body from being transformed against his will. Uh, but yes, cable was raised in the future, came back to save the past, ended up leading

the new mutants, which he rebranded as X-Force, uh, and, you know, has just kind of always been around doing black op shit. but he did get de-aged for a period of time. It was like a 13-year-old boy that gave Cyclops and Gene Gray the, you know, the period of time to raise him during the Kerkowa era. Of which I think he dated one of the Step for Cuckus and also was in a team book with Silak and X23. But yeah, right now, Cable's kind of doing his own thing. Again, you know, going on these missions to keep the timeline from getting fucked up. He had a mini-series called Love and Metal, I believe, very recently that I thought was very well written.

So what do you guys think about cable and where would you put him? I really like cable. As mentioned earlier, if you think about big guys with guns from the future, you think about cable 100%. I think he's got a really interesting, like, backstory and current story. I don't like well by current story I mean like what they did with him when he came to the present I don't know what they're doing with him recently I like the idea that he's like an incredibly powerful telepath

but he can't show it because he's using that to keep himself alive like that's a great angle there's so much to him I really really like cable I would put him in A tier um for sure like a solid A in my opinion yeah 100% like

all origin story like he's pretty much a quintessential 90s character as well yeah I wasn't so keen on kid cable but like he didn't stick around for long anyway

so who cares old man cable like the whole storyline we touched on with taking hope to the future to get away from Bishop and like raising her through this like chase through time and stuff

like that was pretty damn good and yeah he's just he's been pretty influential as well like in like you say basically being team leader of X-Force and uh you know looking after those characters and stuff and then there's his relationship with Deadpool as well

like he is a pretty great character so I would definitely stick him in A yeah i would agree um i think like you said cable's great uh one of the things i wish they would do a little more i'm i think they did actually i think they did do it but i haven't seen anything about it i would love for cable to confront jean gray about what happened with hope and i i won't get into spoilers territory because i know john's you know reading his way up uh but you know that's that's definitely going to be a complicated situation there but no i think cable's great the dynamic between like you mentioned him in Deadpool you know always the straight man

i actually really like Josh brolin in the second Deadpool movie and i was a little bummed out that he did not appear for the third uh but you know me too what are you going to do but yeah no a tier absolutely all right up next our penultimate pick uh we have the white queen aka emma frost umma frost debuted as a villain for the X-Men as part of the Hellfire Club, where she assisted in tormenting Jean Grey until she turned to the Dark Phoenix. She also started up the Hellions in the Massachusetts Academy, a school for mutants that she was kind of, you know, kind of evil mutant kids that were direct in opposition to the new mutants in Gray Malcon. Unfortunately, that team got massacred,

by was it the Marauders who killed the Hellions or was it the upstarts? Oh. I think it was the upstarts, but don't quote me on that. Sounds like the upstarts, which I think they should get used more. I'm a big fan of Trevor Fitzroy. But anyway, she loses her team there and goes on a bit of a redemption arc where she joins with Banshee teaching Generation X. and those students

then ends up joining the X-Men proper later on as their resident telepath and have a bit of a rivalry with Gene Gray because obviously a lot of hard feelings there that ultimately involves her having an affair with Gene's husband Scott before Gene

dies and Emma Frost takes her place full time. She also got the power upgrade where she could turn her body into a diamond form that gave her super strength and incredible durability. She broke bad by joining the Phoenix Force and then joined Scott's kind of anti-hero mutant group. She kind of helped fake his death during the Inhumans versus X-Men storyline, which we don't talk about because nobody talks about the Inhumans. And basically, Emma Frost has been associated with the X-Men one way or another for the last, like, 30, 40 years.

currently she is with Kitty Pride in Chicago mentoring the the three young mutants for exceptional X-Men thoughts on Emma Frost What are we going to do our inhumans Earless? Our breakdown, oh, I let's say our breakdown of each inhuman Yeah

Because I know you have thoughts on this one FTA. I know you have thoughts on Gorgon Except for, well, no Wait a minute Except for Lockjaw. The dog. The dog is Esther. Okay.

Yeah. Giant teleporting dog. I like me and Corey both. We're like, no, no, no, no. Giant dog.

Come on. Keep the dog. Keep the dog. I really like Emma Frost a lot. I think her stuff with Graham Morrison's run was really, really great,

like, character development for that character. It did a really good job of, like, you know, rehabbing her her. What I love about Emma Frost is she's a good guy, but she's not really. Like, she's still Amher Frost. Yeah. You know, she's still got her nose in the air. She's still like, has her own

opinions. But I thought her and Scott worked really well together. That's what's the only type like Cyclops is whenever they were together. They were a great couple. I would like Emma Frost a lot. I would put her in A. I could see her being a B, but I would put her in. But I would put her in A. I mean, I'd put her in A easily. Yeah, I would definitely. She adds a lot of nuance to the X-Men because of that hotiness. I mean, she is ultimately someone who's trying to do better. I think something that we should also not talk about is that weird period of time she was married to Tony Stark. I kind of wish that was a period that never happened because it, I mean, they're also using that in the Age of Revelation miniseries, her

short-term marriage to him, but, oh well. Anyway, yes, Emma Frost in A-tier. And it wasn't a very romantic marriage or anything like that, though. And they're trying to, but retroactively, they're trying to act like it was. Really? Yeah. There's a lot of, like, wistful, like, panels of them, like, looking back on it, you know? Like, just dumb.

Anyway, uh, we're going to get to our last person. It's Ilyana Rasputon. aka Magic, the little sister of Colossus. Liliana joined the X-Men, where she joined new mutants technically, before she was trapped in limbo for a very short period of time for us, but for her it was years,

where she became the dark child and basically like a ruler there. So she came back with some very amplified abilities and powers and kind of became a heavy hitter for a long time for the X-Men. currently, and I'm just kind of rushing through this, because I know at one point we will get to a deep dive on all these characters. Currently, she is a member of the adjective-less X-Men,

where she kind of has a friendship rivalry with Juggernaut. They usually just amounts to seeing who can one-up the other when they're in big group fights. But yes, thoughts on magic. I already know much about magic. Like, I don't know how, but like a lot of the books I've read, she's just not in it. I don't really know anything about magic.

I'm going to say C just because I don't know on the border. I'm just like, there has to be potential there. But like, I just, I don't know. C, fucking hell. I would have gone eight. I don't know. I don't know. I literally haven't.

I only have read a single book there in it. What? She's been all over the books over the last. Lee's the last, yeah, least last 15 or so years. 15. Yeah. But like, yeah, she's obviously got like a cool origin story. her time in limbo basically turned her into this badass warrior

he's got a big ass cool stole thawed as well yeah that's like the thing she's got like magic powers as well as mutant powers uh magic's amazing i will be honest with you john i don't even know what her fucking mutant power is because like usually in a fight she's like doing demonic shit and hitting stuff with a sword. So I'm like, I'm not even aware

what her mutant power even is. He's a teleporter. There you go. See, now I would have associated some of that with her with her demon magic and that's where the lines get crossed a little bit. But no, yeah, magic is for the, so we're going to talk a little bit

about Colossus, that is his little sister. And for years, like, he was super protective of her. And they did kind of a fucked up thing where she kind of had to break that from her brother. where she manipulated him into taking the, becoming the juggernaut essentially, and then like showing him hell

and making him realize that she is not the seven-year-old little girl anymore. And I think he threatened to kill her one day if she did something like that again. A bit of a fucked up thing. But yeah, Magic was a member of the Phoenix Force Five. That's not their official name, but the Phoenix Force Five just sounds like a fucking Japanese, like a Sentai Ranger thing.

she's done a lot of stuff she's kind of been a background in a lot of that stuff she's not at the forefront of it she just recently had her own solo book that just wrapped up as well one thing that I also think is a little underrated is her relationship with Cyclops I mean Cyclops likes to have her on a team

because he's someone that she's someone he can rely on and someone he trusts but it's weird because he kind of takes on the older brother role that Colossus maybe should have have. And I think it's because like Colossus still looks

through rose-colored glasses and sees the little girl in Soviet Russia, whereas Cyclops like, you know, recognizes, you know, oh, she's a fucking amazing soldier and good sense of humor on her. But yeah, no, I would, I don't know if I go.

Colossus is the sloping in the corner as well. Yeah. Here's the thing. I don't know if I'd go A tier, though. I might go B tier. Because again, she's part of these things, but she's not a focus of those things she's just also there okay that's quite funny that we put magic and classes in the CM tier they got to do more with the rascuans they love it I mean like I said I don't know enough of a magic to make like a I'm happy to go with whatever you

guys say terms of magic I think if you had read more magic stuff you would have put her a tier but maybe honestly like probably she does seem like a cool character but like I honest to God don't think I have any trade pairbacks with her in him and that's not on purpose it's just the ones that picked up she's not in him

you know what's a good one for me to pick up let me have a think and I'll get back to you I think so then I would tell you Dylan I would tell you anything from this current Jed McKay X-Men run

I think you would like the dynamic she has with Juggernaut and the dynamic she has with Quentin Choir Okay. Okay. So maybe I could like retroactively change that in the future. But I feel like because somebody said A, somebody said B, somebody said C, we're probably going to go for B. Let the difference. Yeah. Are we happy with that? Sounds like it. Yeah. Yeah. That's what do. I'm not happy, but. So here's our 25 X-Men to do a recap real quick. We have an Ft.E. Ice Man and Jubilee.

In C tier, we have Angel, Polaris, Havoc, Banchi, Rachel Summers, Forge, and Bishop. In B tier, we have Xavier, Colossus, Siloch, and Magic. In A tier, we have Cyclops, Beast, Gene Gray, Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Shadowcat, Cable, and Emma Frost. and in an S tier we have Storm, Rogue, Magneto, and Gambit. Are there any changes that we feel like need to be made? No, I think at the moment it's okay. Honestly, I think if there's ever going to be a change, it's probably going to be if I read comics with magic in it,

that she gets bumped up. I feel like that's the only real change that's going to happen in this, right? I mean, here's the thing. I mean, Wolverine should still be in this. I'm inclined to agree with John on that. that I do think that Wolverine does deserve the bump up to test here. If you want, I don't, I don't mind. Like, I know everybody loves Wolverine.

Like, this is what I said. It's a Joker situation. Even though his mask does look like too Batman kissing. Yeah, which is the Joker would love. If you guys want to move him up in that here, you can. I feel like that's just predictable and boring, whatever. it's Wolverine you know what you mean like I knew going into this and it was going to be a tough sell so you know I don't mind that at all okay one thing I did quite fight the S tier before that was like Storm

Gambit Rogue McNeino they all have a like a history together when you think about it there's a lot of intertwining history Gambit and Storm you know were thieves Gambit and Rogue have a thing McNeil and Rogue had a thing you know well i mean wolverina wrote it's quite a night did storm have a thing i mean they're kind of on again off again yeah we're in gambit fuck all the time you know magnino fucks everybody he certainly does you know so i got that syphilis he's got syphilis that's why yeah on the problem with that is he can't like wolverine is trying to get away but magnino's like no no no no well i mean wolverine doesn't care he's got a healing factor yeah wolverine a fuck anything as well

that's perfect. Yeah. All right. So yeah, I'm at all right. All right. We'll go ahead and switch back. All right. So that was our tier ranking.

Was there anything that surprised you in how that went? I think most of that went pretty, pretty fair. Honestly, honestly, the only thing that surprised me is John really pushed for magic to the point where I'm very intrigued. I think you like her. Yeah. Yeah. You don't have to read this. She's a lot of fun.

She's a lot of fun. Okay. Everything else, I'm pretty standard, I think. You know? Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, I can't have any complaints with it, really. If you look at the A tier list, which is still pretty good. If you look at that list right now, if that was a team of X-Man, you'd be like, that's a book you'd read.

That's a pretty standard X-Men, too. Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty good, you know, read that book. So I think that all came along pretty well. All right. Well, John, what is your movie count at for the year so far? I am now up to 773 movies. My goodness.

Very nice. And what was your most recent movie? It was Clint Eastwood's last movie they directed, Jora number two. with young Nicholas Holt I guess he's not that young anymore he kind of reunites with Tony Colette

after they were about a boy many many years ago as mother and son there you go good film what did you give it yes what did you give it was that oh did you ask

oh uh I have given it three and a half out of five. The unfortunate thing, when I think about Clint Eastwood now, I just think of him talking to that empty chair pretending it was Barack Obama during that Republican National Convention

like a decade or so ago. Yeah, that wasn't a good look. His old man grunting. Anyway, yes, Dylan, what do you get up to during the week? Wait, how would people find you on the letterbox? Oh, they just have to search for at. big John Bowsky or one word. Well, that's good to know.

There's also a link in the description to John's profile. His dating profile. There you go. So there's no. Yes. It's his Bumble account. Yeah. He's very active on it.

He will respond. Constantly swiping, right? I don't even know that's something you do on Bumble. Anyway. Dylan, what do you get up to during the week? So on Monday nights, I do a radio show where we play loads of music. It's available on ByncidigitalRadio.com.

UK, again, the links you'll be in the description. You can listen to it anywhere in the world so long as you're tuned in. Well, you can listen to any time in the world whenever you want, but if you want to listen to me, tune in at 9 o'clock on Monday nights or whatever the conversion is for 9 o'clock. Last week we played loads of stuff. We played Lana Del Rey, Alison Sheens, Megadeth, Primus, Our Lady Peace. And then a lot of other stuff you probably haven't heard of.

And next week, well, I say next week, at some point, I played placebo, rat on topsyllip peppers, back, Dave Navarro, Bockethead. It's an eclectic time. Lots of fun. And then sometimes when I get a chance, they stream art stuff on Twitch at Spookular Root. So go there and follow. Very nice. Again, the links to those places are down below.

I have my other show, large old cups, usually every Saturday or Sunday. It's about 28 minutes long, just whatever happens to be going on is off the top of the dome. I also have a new writing project called Henry's Usual, which are letters from a Generation X washout, sitting alone in a diner, writing a letter to maybe himself. So, yeah, it's a bit of it. It's, I kind of equate it to Seinfeld in that it's a story without a plot. And we'll just kind of see what happens with it. But aside from that, you could find, we have another link in the description for those places.

We also have a link tree with all of our social media shit. So if you're on, you know, you can find us on TikTok and Instagram and all other stuff. We're posting shorts and clips of the show. And it helps kind of get word out to people that we exist and that we're doing stuff. Because we are almost at 100 episodes of the show. Crazy. Absolutely. But until next time, we'll see you all later.

Goodbye. Goodbye. Bye-bye. Oh, he's a ghost.