The Smark Avengers - Vol 4, Ep 7: Dylan Ranks Batman’s Villains—And DC Fans Are Gonna Riot

Episode Date: April 11, 2025

🔥 Dylan Ranks Batman’s Villains—And DC Fans Are Gonna Riot! 🔥 Last episode, Jon made some questionable calls ranking Batman’s villains, but this time, Dylan takes the tier list to a whole new level of controversy! As another Marvel fan, he’s bringing his unfiltered opinions to Gotham’s rogues gallery—and let’s just say, DC fans might not be happy with his rankings. 🃏 Who Gets S-Tier? Who Gets DISRESPECTED? ✅ Joker, Bane, Riddler, Two-Face—where do they land? ✅ Which classic villains does Dylan think are OVERRATED? ✅ Who gets sent straight to F-Tier with NO hesitation? ✅ Will Batman fans ever forgive us after this episode? With spicy takes, brutal rankings, and heated debates, this is the most divisive Batman villain tier list yet! Buckle up, because it’s about to get messy. 💬 COMMENT BELOW: Which rankings do you AGREE with? Which ones are straight-up disrespectful? 🔔 LIKE & SUBSCRIBE for more comic book debates, tier lists, and controversial opinions!

Okay, I'm going to open a bottle. This is the bottle. And this is the bottle opener. Who's that? Who's that? Who's that a little distinguished gentleman? Who's that saucy lady? Works.

It works. It works. Great. So I was at a wedding last week for one of my best friends, and he got presents for, like, all of his friends for some reason. This is his wedding. He didn't have to do that. and he got all wild openers in the shapes of her faces and that was mine and apparently mine was the best one i'm a little confused because what well i'm just i don't know where this is going

well where are you confused there's two traits about me that i have known about myself for as long as i've been alive number one is I have blonde hair. I was about to say, the brunette was interesting. And number two, which is hard to tell. You can't see this either, right? I have blue eyes. Oh.

But I like, whoever was printing this was like, I got a lot of brown, dude. She's got a lot of brown. Okay, I want me to throw this batch out when I'm done? No, no, no. We're not going to throw that out. Keep it. That one's for you, you know.

But the rest of it was, like, really good. It really does look like me. Yeah, it does. Got my metal neck perfectly. You see that? Perfect. Yeah. How it flares out?

I just, like, you know, this, the body isn't real. That's a robot, but I just, like, pull my head up. Just pull it off. Yeah. And you just open bottles. Yeah. The problem is they have to be very big bottles for you to do it yourself. Well, you know I drank a problem.

and then I put the head back on the body and then off the time I go, you know. Hi, everybody, welcome, Spark Adventure's. My name is Corey, and with me is Dylan. Hi, Dylan. How about the night are you keeping in? I'm going to keep a lot of that in, honestly. It's pretty good.

We need to keep a good bit of that in. So John's not with us. I can't remember why John's not with us, though. Oh, for that reason. We can come up for that reason. I mean, he was with his last week and there was a horse race. So it cannot be horse related because that has not been a problem for him. Was that where I was?

Were you involved with the horse races? Were you a jockey? Legally, I'm not allowed to answer that question. There you go. What does John like to do? John likes music and movies. Do you've seen members of the Marvel universe in order to kill them. Rich, no, specifically rich, powerful people, like Magneto and Lex Luthor.

Those are the two people he's seduced. Kingpin? Kingpin. Yeah. He enjoys the arts, I'm sure. Wouldn't they be beautiful children, John and the Kingpin? Yeah. Beautiful, criminally insane children.

I feel like John wouldn't be as disloyal as Vanessa is. Yeah. I don't know. I know nothing of this character except. that they met they had a nice little romance story in Daredevil and then John was saying that they're in couples counseling?

You said that you don't think John would be disloyal but also John would try to kill him. Well, no, that's the problem is it's not so much, like, loyalty only matters to John if he's approaching the relationship with sincerity. When he approached Magneto and Lex Luthor, it was for the express purpose

of killing Aquaman and Wolverine. I think that he came to the Magneto thing with a little bit of like sincerity. I think he just really like Magneto. He really likes Magneto. I think he really just wanted to get admired to Magneto, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so this is kind of a follow up to last week.

So you were not here. John and I did a, we did a first for Smart Avengers where we did a tier system. We took a bunch of Batman villains, and we basically ranked them depending on how John viewed them in level of importance or effectiveness or cool factor. I'm not exactly sure what some of John's reasoning were behind some of them, and we'll follow up on that next week, I'm sure. Marriage ability. Marriage ability. You know, bachelor status. Yeah.

So because, you know, you and John are predominantly more Marvel-based. people, especially Spider-Man-based. You're very familiar with having a large rogue gallery. Spider-Man is a huge road gallery. I am. I love people that hate me. There you go. So, yeah, so what really is simple to your system. You've seen them around. We're just going to kind of go through them.

I'm here to act as a sign of a facilitator for you. If you have any questions about certain villains, if you're not familiar with them, I'll be happy to fill in some blank spaces for you. I have a question right off the bat. Yes. It's Batman, right? We're doing Batman? Yes, we were doing Batman.

Okay, so how far down the tier list did you go? So I've written, I'm writing them down and I've written down S-A-B-C-D-E-F. I don't know if we'll go down that far. Coincidentally enough, we have a tier system. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. Bye.

Get the fuck over to YouTube. So I exported John's results and sent those over to him. I did this myself and I have my results already exported. So, you know, level of consistency, making sure we're covering the same people, we'll do it this way through. So this is on the tiermaker.com website. Somebody already made this main Batman villains. I will tell you, I did notice a problem in this list. Mr. Freeze is not included.

So we will add him. next week when we talk about the results of hours combined. Okay. So, yeah, we have several villains here. Sorry for interrupting you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm writing them down. Do you want me to write them down or are you just going to do it like this?

Well, I'm going to do it like this and I'm going to export the results and send you the image. So if you want to write them down, yeah. You go ahead and write them down. That's totally fine. Yeah. A big writer. Yeah, of course. So yeah

I will tell you that John had a couple questions about the tier list before we get started For one he's like what does S stand for Special See I didn't know that I'm not a video game person I only ever see S tier when it comes to Capcom video games Yeah it's normally like in Japan they came up with that where like S rank is like it's normally like super or special I think it's super rank really but super special is pretty like Or sausage

Sausage drank? Sausage. There you go. The other... Sausages, like, got to be up there, right? It has to be. The other question that John had was,

what happened to E? Oh, yeah. I have a E of mine. What happened to... What? I'm going to say that is the American education system. It is not. Because...

Because when we get graded in school, your top grade is an A. And it goes, B, C, D. And then it skips E for whatever reason, it goes straight to F. Yeah, we don't, we never got, um, an E. You don't do two letter grades. I got a, I got a, I got a bunch of Ds. I don't think I ever got a, I never got a, I never got an F.

Yeah, so in America, we just don't do, we just skip E when it comes into the alphabet in regards to grading. Not far it gets two E's. So, uh, if that stated, like you said, there's, uh, it, this runs the gamut. You have big names here. You have not so big names here. You have some people you may not be familiar with. Again, that's kind of why I'm here is help fill in the gaps.

Okay. And I would like to do the inverse of this someday. I would love for you and John to walk me through a tier ranking of Spider-Man villains. We should, yeah. I think that would be wild. But then you're just going to put the big wheel at S. We're all going to put the big wheel in S tier. Big wheel at S, yeah.

So speaking of putting our villains in special little ranking slots, Our very first one is man bat. So, Dylan, how familiar are you with man bat? I want to guess a man bat is a bat, but is also a man? Yes. You are very correct. He's like Batman, but invert. Yeah.

I don't want on the bottom. Okay. So the equivalent to man bat in Spider-Man world is lizard. So man-bat is a scientist, doing some experimentation, when a Rye turns into basically a wear bat. Okay. So he has enhanced strength. He can fly.

He has some sonar abilities. Where from S to F would you put man bat? When you say it's equivalent to lizard. Yes. Do you mean that stylistically? Or do you mean that like story-wise? So it is very, he is a tragic character. like Dr. Kirk Connors.

I will also say that he has had moments of good as well. He has been a member of the Justice League Dark. But, I mean, for all intents purposes, he is a stylistic comparison in that brilliant scientist experimenting with animal DNA gone awry turns into a monstrosity. What does he have two arms? Yes, he has two arms because he needs them.

for the wings to flap. No, it is human form? Yes, yes. Okay. What does he do? Does he stop like bat wings and sonar and shit? What does he do? I mean, yeah, he goes into a feral state.

He doesn't retain his humanity when he's in bat form, essentially. So he basically is a wild monster animal man. I'm going to say, I mean, honestly, it just sounds like kind of like a sea. to me. That's not terrible, but also, like, you wouldn't read a comic of fucking manbats

in this one. I gotta buy it. You know, you'd be like, ah, I guess it. Well, I will tell you,

he did have his own series. He did have his own series a few years ago. There was a man bat solos. Everybody said to do a series. Yeah, right. All right. Next up is a character I'm not sure

if you're going to be familiar with. Also, a killer moth. What is he? do. So Killer Moth was originally created in the 50s to be a pastiche of Batman. He is also a man who has created a lot of technology to aid him in his nighttime adventures, a lot of gadgets. He can fly. He has little like grapple guns and stuff. But ultimately he is a villain instead of Batman. Everything he has is a moth motif. I would tell you he's kind of seen as a jobber character that is made fun, is kind of there to be

the butt of the joke more often than not. Like there is a bat girl story from the 1970s, I believe, where Barbara Gordon defeats him with a shoe. Okay. Well, there's a story in the 90s where Mary Jane Watson beats the chameleon with a baseball bat. I would honestly, I would say that killer moth is an equivalent to shocker and that he's kind of frequently portrayed as a down on his luck kind of guy kind of desperate that's a shame man if we were in charge i would i would put shocker like i would reach the the stock of shocker

we call him the stocker uh not stalker stock is in the stock door he's putting stuff on shelves okay i meant to the stock market but now he says my version of the stocker is he worked at a grocery store at night okay well we'll editorially we'll we'll we'll workshop it. Oh, we will a lot. John would be like, guys, stop talking about the stalker. I'm like, no, no, no, no. Does he stock things or is he stocks? It's important. I mean, what do we think? D, probably. It's your list. Do you tell me? Can I move stuff around later? Like, if I hear somebody words? Yeah, you, you have total, you have total, you have total freedom to do that. This is your list. That's put him on D for now. Okay. Killer moth? Killer moth. Is there such a thing? No. It's a shame. But I mean, he looks kind of cool. Well, so does the shocker. There you go. There's a stalker. It looks like the

stock market. This is a big line going up. We're done. Yeah, he's we just change his costumes. The quilt marks are like in directions instead of just like crisscross. That's how you know when the stock market's doing really good or really bad. You see. him and you're like oh shit dude like when he's like kind of whenever he walks see time uh loads of businessmen jump out of the 13th okay next up we have somebody you should be a little more familiar with uh he's a bit he's a more of a recognizable name killer crock okay he's kind of lizardy yep uh his is more of the result of a skin condition he had as a child that further mutated

condition that turns out into a crocodile. Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. Pretty much. You know, skin condition that makes your snogged, like... That was the mutation aspect of it. They've undone that. He looks less like a crocodile now.

He shouldn't. He should look like a crocodile. Yeah. He's not... I think it's more of like the... Killer crock kind of had that beast thing going on where for some reason they started changing how he looked. So like Beast went from like regular dude with big hands and feet

to furry blue ape man to cat back to furry blue ape man. No, he went to-crock is kind of... Yeah. He went to monkey after cat. Yes. Um... Killer Crock kind of went from that to like kind of a big guy with like scales to like a monstrous guy with scales to a monstrous guy with a crocodile.

aisle snout and a tail to now back to looking like a big monstrous guy with scales what how do you lose a tail editorial mandate it's probably in the last place you looked yep right behind him yeah um yep there you go since that crock is a durable super strong bit of a cannibal tends to eat people listen i'm not going to knock up for that You all get hungry. Had one of the more memorable parts of Batman in Arkham Asylum. Where he lost his tail. Yep.

Really? Really? Is that what happened? No, it's not what happened. Arquemisimum. He didn't have a tail in Arkham asylum. He just made it up. Yep. I'm going to say, I do know him. I'm familiar with him. But not, he's like, this is probably the same of you in the same of you. Spider-Man because you know like Spider-Man there's like you know the guys marky names and then

there's like the upper mid-cardors this pretty much what we're doing right now I'm ranking so like he's I wouldn't have said killer Croc is an upper mid-carder but he's a big card I would so if that's your criteria I'd say probably like a B okay I know him I'm sure you know yeah now again this is your list so you can you can you can pick and choose and do whatever you want with it. One thing I like about this is we have in a row had two characters that are A, self-proclaimed killers and B, animals. Yep, we have.

We're going to break away from that real quick because the very next one is the demon's head, Rachelgul. Oh. Oh, we talked about how to pronounce his name before. Razaagul, Rhaeguil. Yeah, I say Razagul because I don't read the book. But you say... That's okay.

You do read the book. I've heard Rae-Halgul many times. Yeah. But that's the voices in your head, Corey. That's the voices in my head. Much like Randy Orton, I hear voices in my head. Mm-hmm. And they're talking about Batman.

Yeah, they are. Well, I'm okay with it's like Batman, so it's just nice to have someone to talk to every now and then. And you know what? Batman likes you. That's good. I like that Batman likes me. And he doesn't like anybody. No, no, not.

And notoriously, not his legion of orphans that he's adopted. He's right. And you would think they'd be able to grateful, but no. No, no. Complaining. Someone died. Don't worry about it. Don't worry.

They might be on the list later on. But yeah, what we know about Rasha Aguil, or Razaul, head of a centuries-old old League of Assassins. They are responsible for the decline of many civilizations. A bit of an eco-terrorist. Eternal. He's been killed and resurrected multiple times over the years, played by Liam Mason. Liam Neeson in Batman Begins.

Oh, no, they are a pretty actor. There you go. You got to support the team. You got to support the team. So that being said, is that going to raise or lower his stock for you in this tier list? before we got to the Liam Neeson thing i'm going to tell you what my ranking was going to be okay it was going to be an a okay so like not like not like stone cold steve austin but you're like you know chris jericho like you know on the way there i don't listen it's it's it would be rude

to me to just take that bias and go Liam neason bumps it up to an ass because i don't think he is an ass i think he's a pretty big like pivotal batman villain i don't know if he's asked here frankly and i don't think leon decent playing him in one film would also elevate that entire character do you mean yeah yeah although that is it you gotta support the team that is a very that's weighing very heavily in my mind

that he's on the cusp i will say he's on the cusp because of leon leon leon let's put it that way Because like how many other actors do we have? Fucking nobody. You know what you mean? We're very small country. Just like 20 people in this whole country. Very small country.

Yeah, there were six people in my school of my class whenever I was growing up. Six people in the whole class. That's not a lot of people. No, it's not. And some of them died, I guess. I haven't heard from them. I assume they died. And they probably assumed I died.

So it even died. That's only fair. Anyway. Anyway, I'm going to say, I'm going to stick with A, but he's on the... How do you spell this guy's name? R-A-A-A-A-A-A-posterphy-S. Okay. Space A-L-S-G-H-U-L.

Okay. I like how it's just a jumble of letters. And you go, yeah, that's a real name. No, no, no, no. All right. DC do that a lot. I've noticed that. Just like tumble up letters and go,

that's the guy's name. Like, well, I mean, the most literal one is Mr. Mitzelplick. Right. You've no idea

how many times I've seen that written down and then I've heard somebody say it. I'm like, that's how you say it. And then read it again. I'm like, what the fuck?

It's not even, it's not the, what? That's, you know, you know? Yeah. I know.

I know exactly. Next of a character whose name isn't that complicated is Bain. He's pretty good. Do you know Bain? I do know Bain. We do the whole... Yeah, we had a two-episode review of...

Not even review, just an explanation of the storyline Nightfall. Bain played a big part in that. We talked about Bain very recently in an episode that won't come out because it never got recorded, apparently. It might... That might be next week. Who knows? But, yeah, you're familiar with Bain?

Yes. Tom Hardy. I'm good to remember Swinson. Jeep Swinson if you are watching Batman and Robin. Which nobody is. Nobody is. Nobody is.

Even as a wrestling fan, that's such a deep cut like 95% of people would have no idea what the fuck I just said. That's the thing, because we're all Resto fans, right? We're all comic book fans. If you told me the wrestler was going to play Bain and like, oh, great. And then they say the name of the guy, and they're like, who fuck is that? Yeah.

Is he a wrestler? Do you just make that up? You know? I think they made that off. I didn't bullshit, you know. He was in WCCW back in the 80s. When did that, was it, 97? 97?

Yeah, Batman and Robin. You're telling me you couldn't find a big fucking jacked up guy to play that guy in 97. I mean, they did. It was cheap. Swanson. a better on but then the problem would have been like if it was a better

guy they would have got him on set and then they'd be like hey you have to go over there and like say nothing and you're going to be in like four scenes and the guy would have been like that doesn't work for me brother yeah doesn't work for me brother brother brother okay so

Bain great character the problem I have of Bain from what I understand of Bain and you can correct me if I'm wrong, which I very frequently am. Okay. And the show, in my life, and my job as a police officer, frequently wrong all the time. Bad mistakes made a lot.

I mean, it's good when your police officer, nobody notices. You get away with it. But in the show, people will critique me for being wrong. So I wanted to double check. But I feel like Bain's... was a big, big character for a long time. But like recently, and I say recently, and I'm going to guess, like, in the last five, 10 years,

he's kind of, like, fallen off. He hasn't really been, like, the big fucking guy. I know you were telling me about, like, the Gail Simone stuff where, like, she tried to make him a bit more opium, which as much love Gail Simone, I don't think you need to do that with Bain. I feel like he should just be a big. Some guys can just be a big motherfucker,

and that can be their job. That's fine. And Bain was really good at being big and smart. and drinking poison, that could be a... It doesn't have to... You don't have to get complicated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They kind of feel you in a little bit there was...

So the Gail-Simone thing was, like, really playing up his addiction to venom. And, like, so that she was writing him as kind of a recovering addict while focusing on the fact that Bain is already just incredibly strong and very brilliant. But, no, Bain had his own mini-series called Conquest. That wasn't that long ago. That was by the creative team that invented him. So it was kind of a continuation of his story. And also, he killed Alfred.

So he's had some lasting impact. Oh, he killed an old man. Congratulations. That's more than like Joker. I mean, Joker hasn't killed Alfred. Ridler hasn't killed Alfred. And Alfred's been dead for five years now. That's kind of like a death that oddly has stuck.

I'm going to counter by saying, the Joker has probably killed plenty of other old men. Yeah, yes, yes. But not Bruce's old man. Who fucking cares? But no, Bain is Bain. They always bring him back in with his kind of, he kind of has that archangel, angel, angel problem where it's like the one storyline people want to run with Bain is Bain wants to control Gotham City. And he makes some really big strategic moves to make it happen. Right. So like, if you're thinking about that, you could say it's a one trick pony, but also the one thing you have you could say, but those tricks is that a lot of the time for a long time, for a long time. period of time, there's tricks seem to work out okay. You know what I mean? Like he comes in,

he doesn't, he comes down with a plan. He doesn't just go, I'm going to run Gotham and then, you know, try to be the mayor or whatever. Like he, he pulled some stuff out. So with that in mind, I feel like he's always been, like since this introduction, he's always been kind of like a, big character. I would say A tier. A tier? Okay. Yes. Not like bam, bam, this is, this is your boy. But like if he was to rise up you wouldn't be like you wouldn't be that surprised but yeah it's baines pretty fucking kick ass right yeah true all right next up we have catwoman okay what does she do who is catwoman well i mean catwoman is a is a burglar uh she is one of the very few characters who is a where the bad man is bruce wayne they were almost married very recently

um she's in she's one of three characters that are on here that's a little little kind of iffy just because Catwoman is more associated with being an anti-hero now. Like the Black Cat. Like the Black Cat. Yeah. So Cat Woman has been firmly anti-hero since the 90s. That hasn't not really shifted or changed. So she has her own title right now, a very long-running title. Usually the focus on that is very women empowerment, typically. Catwoman stands up for abused women, sex workers, that sort of thing. I'm with her sister. There you go.

But yeah, so Catwoman is next up. Where would you rank her on the Batman scale of villains? Michelle Pfeiffer. Incredible. Yep, Michelle Fyfer. And halfway. Yeah. Michelle Fyper out of the way, I think.

Perfecta. Can we, you just try it away with a shop Fyfer thing here. I don't know why you're doing that. She was the best catwoman, is what I'm saying. Michelle Pfeiffer? Yes. I will say, I will give you that. I will say that Zoe Kravitz in the recent, the Batman, was the most comic-like catwoman.

How I'm saying that? Okay. Therefore, it doesn't- Well, you also don't read, yeah, you also don't read Batman. So that comparison probably doesn't mean too much to you. If I say like, oh, yeah, Zoe Kravitz is probably the most comic-accurate catwoman. You're like, I don't really read it, so it doesn't matter. Yeah.

Michelle Piper, cool as hell. She's a whip. Eat a bird. A bird? Yeah. She said she regretted doing. Listen. She regards that live bird.

We've all regretted eating stuff. Yep. At some point in your lives. If we're going on the basis of like, because I think a big part of this is like how much I know about this character. Yes. You mean? I think that's a pop.

you know, again, for ranking this, like, like, rest, there's, like, upper mid-card or whatever. Everybody knows Steve Austin. Some people know Jericho. Not a whole lot of people know Midian, right? We can create it like that. I think everybody knows Catwoman, but in the same level as Bain in that, like, she's never like,

bam, bam, she's there. You'll see her in stories. But also, like, you said, she's not really a villain per se. So I think it would be a crime to put her. her S-tier because as a villain, she's not really a villain. But she's there in like popularity, but not as strictly as a villainous character. So I'm going to have to put her in A-tier again. A-tier is very, very busy.

So far. Yeah. I'm going to be very kind. I bet John was like really fucking critical about it. Like everybody's fucking half-tier. And I'm like, no, everybody can be A-tier. Everybody has a great time except for killer moth. Who I have to look down to check.

That he's still there. All right. Well, so here's a character that I'm not sure how familiar you are with him, aside from his recent, and by recent, I mean 10 years ago portrayal in the Suicide Squad by Will Smith. It is Deadshot, the mercenary. Dead shot. I haven't seen. Yes.

Suicide Squad. So Deadshot is most well-known. known for being a member of the suicide squad. He is a mercenary. His gimmick is he doesn't miss. So he is an expert marksman, usually preferring to use guns that are mounted to his wrists. And specifically, he has a death wish. So he is kind of like one of the more willing members of the suicide squad. He only really cares about his kid and keeping her safe and doesn't really give a shit if he lives or dies. So he's perfect for suicide squad. Wait a minute. He wants his kid to be say, but he also wants to die.

Therefore, not being able to look after his kid. Oh, yeah, no. Trust me. He's a, he's a piece of shit hypocrite. You know, like, that's the thing. I mean, suicide squad are not angels. Even though, like, he has that, that redeeming quality of, like, oh, he wants to be a good dad. He wants to be a good dad and, like,

money gets sent to the kid and wants nothing for, he does not want this kid to have anything to do with him because he realizes what a piece of shit he is. So it's the Elon Musk School of Being a Father? Probably. He didn't, now, Deadshot did not name his daughter a series of gibberish, so, you know, I think we're fine there. Deadshot did not inherit a diamond mine. He did not.

I was emerald. I don't fucking know. I'm not in the fuck, Corey. Okay. So anyway, yes. I just figured out you're the Elon Musk fan club. I got you. I am.

I lit a trap for you. I don't care about Deadshot. Okay. I don't know him. I don't know. I want to say either C or D, because I don't fucking care. You say he's an expert Marksman. I assume that means something akin to Bullseye.

But Bullseye's awesome. I love Bullseye. He's very, very similar to Bullseye. Another Irish man. There you go. Will Smith, is he Irish? He probably pretends he is. Probably.

Everybody in America pretends they're Irish. Torre you Irish? Especially this time of year. Yeah. I mean, I'm pale with red hair in front. It kind of is hard to avoid it. And my last name is what it is. So it's kind of...

That's true. You're more Irish than... It's pretty abundant. I'll give you that. Thank you. I'm not one of those weirdos you claim it, though. Can we do a list where we rank and who's more Irish? It's America people.

And then you're on the list. Yeah. I would do ahead of Will Smith. Like, way ahead. Thank you. Yeah. I appreciate that. I think you might be...

Because you got a lot of stuff, like you said. There's a lot of stuff. on your favor. Yeah. I've been doing 18th in that list, I would say. Well, thank you. Yeah. Well, it's taking your tiers,

between C or D, where are you putting deadshot? Well, what I was about to say was, I would have put Will Smith in, like, D tier of being Irish. For that fact, and for no other reason at all, Deadshot,

or whatever his name is, going to D tier. Dead shot? Dead shot, going right beside, Killer Moth. I already forgotten his fucking name. Who, who can? He's not cool like Bullseye is.

Bullseye's cool. Bullseye had a lady Bullseye. Does Dadshot have Lady? What? Deadshot? I forgot his name and they said his name. Well, so here's a character that we spent a little bit of time arguing about not that long ago. He is the inspiration of Deadpool.

The next one of this is Deathstroke the Terminator. Okay. Here's, you'll not find this at all surprise. I thought Deadshot was that guy. Destrored terminator. Said more about him and I'm like, oh, it's a different guy. So that happens. But anything.

It happens. Trust me. It happens. Well, I guess you were arguing a little bit. Yeah, it was Deathstroke versus Storm. I, but, well, that reminds me. I wanted to argue with this again, because I just read an article where, like, recently in the comics, of like upgraded Storm to like super omega level meetings.

Oh my God, really? We're making super Omega is now a thing. It's like beyond Omega because she got the power. It was like some god or whatever. So I'm like, I was like Storm totally would have beat him. All right. Well, we'll revisit that on another episode because we need John here too because John voted for Deathstroke as well.

Well, he fucked up. So Deathstroke the Terminator, expert, Marksman, expert hand-to-hand combatant, the most lethal man in DC comics. Portrayed by Ron Perlman. Yeah. Oh, yeah, Deathstroke is like the most... Yeah, he's the top-tier assassin in DC. In DC.

He's killed the most people ever. He has had... No, I probably would say that would probably go to Lobo, because Lobo does that shit intergalactically. but Destrook was just recently the big bad in a big crossover event they had. Okay. Like all of the DC world was involved in this crossover, and Destrook was the big bad. Okay. He killed lots of people?

I think he did, yeah. I know that it looked like he was going to kill Beast Boy, but I don't think. I think they pulled some bullshit because I don't think they would never allow a Teen Titan to get killed like that. He did kill Beast Boy. major team type. That the Beast Boy died, but a new clone of Beast Boy came in. But the Beast Boy only had the memories of the old Beast Boy from like 1986 onwards or after before I had that. You know, you know what's funny about that?

So Beast in the comics had pulled his own eyeball out because he had a small Russian spy running around inside of him. And he refused to be resurrected because it would mean that all his schemes would get exposed to the quiet council. When Deathstroke seemingly killed Beast Boy, he just blew out his eyeball. So both of them were walking around with that one eye. So it was really funny that you made that comparison. I made the comparison because it was called Beast. Can I?

Yeah. Once it was blue. I don't want to derail the cut this bit out if he want. That might be too much effort, but okay. Beast had a miniature Russian spy running around inside. him. Yes. Okay. Could you just could you see where like a man might get a little bit confused about the sentence? Yeah. Absolutely. But we're not normal men. We read comic books. We don't have to go into it too much. I just want to make it known what the fuck. Put that down in the

for today. That's at 36 minutes into the show. I said what the fuck. Oh boy, 36 minutes in the we got a lot more people to cover. That shot, I don't fucking know. I'm going to say B tier. B tier, okay. Like, he's pretty good. I don't think he's as good as Deadpool, but like,

put that on the record as well. Okay. I said that. Deadpool's cool as hell. That shot, oh, he killed loads of people. Whatever. I kill loads of people. It doesn't matter, you know.

I don't think he's as well known or as interesting as, like, a lot of the other guys we're talking about. So I would say he's a big deal, but not like a huge deal. So I think he's pretty fair. That's fair. Yeah.

Next up is a character you should be a little more familiar with. It's the scarecrow. Okay. Killeem Murphy, another Irish guy. Oh my God. Another Irish guy. He's knocking on the bar today. Killing it.

Christopher loves him some Irishman. He makes people scary or whatever. He gets pumped up. I know everything to buy. him. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I like the scarecrow as a character. I do. I really do. Um, I don't know how, like, of a big of a deal he is. I know they, you know, obviously they tried to put him in like all the old of badmads for some reason. Uh, I like him, though. I do like him. And not because of Killian Murphy. Although I do like Killiam Murphy. I'm going to do something controversial here. Okay. I'm going to move Deathshot to C tier. I'll put Scarecrow in B tier.

So Deathstroke. Whatever is fucking tier. Yeah. And then Scarecrow to B tier. Okay. Yep. I'm happy with that. I like the Scarecrow.

I don't think he's like an upper mid-quarter, but he's, again, on the cusp. He could get in there. He's European champion, but he's like, like William Regal. Yeah. But if he was Andrew Cronetal champion, you wouldn't go, what the fuck? Yeah, exactly. Is he Dilo Brown walking around with both belts? Maybe.

Maybe. He could wobble his head like that. You're looking at the real deal now. And all the other stuff he did. Yeah. He draws. Put that bit out. Fuck.

All right. Next up, we got Firefly. Are you? familiar with Firefly. Half. So real quick, just to give you some context, Firefly is an arsonist pyromaniac. He was supposed to be the big bad of the Batgirl movie, and he was going to be played by Brendan Fraser before Warner Brothers Discovery dumped that whole movie after they finished making it as a tax write-off, aka to give Tony Con that sweet-sweet TV deal money.

Well, he needed it. He did. He did. He did. So we will never get to see Brennan Fraser as Firefly because of that. So is an arsonist? Mm-hmm. A Piraminiac. What else did he do? So he has a jet pack that, you know, he flies around with the flamethrower.

There's not, there's not too much to Garfield Lions. His name is Garfield. His name is Garfield. F. Okay. All right. Moving on, this one, this character, a bit of a creep. It's the Mad Hatter. What do you know about the Mad Hatter?

I do know the Mad Hatter. Okay. What's his par? He can, like, eat people. So, Matt Hatter has, he is, basically is a master of brainwashing technology. And he hides the devices inside of hats, typically. obsessed with Alice in Wonderland and depending on who's writing

a bit of a pedophile. Yeah, I heard that. I heard that. Yeah, John and I talked about that a little bit when we were talking about Matt Hatter as well. Matt Hatter is obsessed with blondes that he refers to as his Alice. And again, depending on who's writing,

sometimes the blonde is just a young woman and sometimes it's a child. I'm great, because I have brown hair so I'm good. There you go. You didn't have to worry about the Matt Hatter. unless he's secretly hidden one of his microchips inside of your hat. I think you're good.

But you don't know. You don't know. You're wearing a hat. I'm always wearing a hat. It's my secret. He could be in you. That's my secret. So you're the Matt Hatter.

No. Good. I'm not going to say it. Make that, yes, make that distinction where you're like, it's definitely not that guy. Yeah. And because you enjoyed Firefly's first name, Matt Hatter's name is Jervis Tetch. I'm going to say this about a lot of DC characters.

As we already covered, but Raz Aguil, stupid names. So yes, where would you put the Mad Hatter? Who's going to put a pedophile, like, really high up on the list? I mean, if you're talking about, like, he's a. bad villain because he's a disgusting pervert. Right. My BS tier in that case. But does that make you a bad, I mean, it makes you a bad villain and that it makes

you not a good villain. True. Right. True. I mean, it's your list at the end of the day. Ah, F tier. Fuck him. F tier.

All right. Don't fuck him. Do not. Do not fuck this, man. Next. Next up is a villain. I'm not sure you may or may not be familiar with. It's hush.

Are you familiar with hush? Kind of. Okay. Because of advantages. Yes. Yeah. So Hush is, his name is Thomas Elliott. He is an old friend of Bruce Wayne's from when they were children.

Normal name. Thomas Elliott, there you go. We're off to a good start. This is, he's a more recent, created character from like the early 2000s. Oh, damn it. So Hush basically is, became obsessed with the Wayne family, bitterness and jealousy. His family were not nearly as wealthy. He tried to murder his family by sabotaging their car when he was a child so you get the money for it. Later on becomes a brilliant

surgeon and basically begins to plague Bruce Wayne's life trying to steal it from him. So master manipulator, pretty good expert fucking with somebody psychologically. I see a lot of myself in this guy. Yeah. Yeah. Well, no. is this a thing as well? You kind of what I was saying about Bain, like he was a big deal when he came in, the people he made him like wrote him really well, but after that he kind of like fell off the radar event.

Is that pretty similar to hog? He fell off the radar because not many people used him that often. Yeah, they didn't know what to do with him. So there is the next upcoming Batman run that's starting, I think probably maybe this month, is a storyline that's being just referred to as Hush 2. and it is Jeff Lowe and Jim Lee coming back to basically write a sequel to their story the first time.

So Hush is making a comeback on this one. The only other time that Hush got used pretty prominently that I'm aware of was in the story, the DC Comics time period where Batman was thought to be dead. Because he had used plastic surgery to make himself look like Bruce Wayne, he basically was kept under house arrest by like Nightwing and the others so that, that basically the world could still think that Bruce Wayne was still alive. But so Thomas Alliot kind of got what he wanted. He was denied freedom, but he got to have all of the money and power that came along with being Bruce Wayne.

I'm torn. Okay. See, I've heard of him. Yes. And if I've heard of him, that's usually a pretty good... Pretty good sign. Yeah. because I knew the bandages.

I knew, like, you know, I knew that about him. So I wanted to say B, but I feel like, because he, like you said, his more recent thing is going to be called like harsh two. They're like, that's bad. You've only had two big storylines, dude. And the second one hasn't come out yet. Like, that's... Yeah.

It's a really big storyline, but yeah, they've... I don't think a lot of people have really... I think they've been just too timid to try anything. with hush. I want to say B, but I'm tempted to just put him in C because, like, he's got potential, but he's not there yet. You know what I mean?

So let's say... I think C is appropriate because he could be a big deal, but he's not a big deal. Okay. I think he's like a guy that eventually he can strap a rocker to and make him a big deal, but he's not a big deal

at the moment. And he could be And they should have, I think they should have made him a big deal. Like they had the chance to make him a big deal. They didn't. That's their fault. So he's C at the moment. All right. So we are at the halfway point of the list.

And to do just a bit of a recap in case you want to make any changes. Like I said, you can make any changes you want at any time. So right now at F tier, we have Firefly and the Mad Hatter. Correct. At D tier, we have Killer Moth and Deadshot. Yes. At C tier, we have man bat, deathstroke, The Terminator, and Hush. Yes.

At B tier, we have Killer Croc and the Scarecrow. Yeah. And A tier, we have Raza, Gould, Bain, and Catwoman. I think that's a pretty accurate list. All right. That's the case. We'll keep pushing forward. Next up is our second of the three that are a little iffy because she's more known as an anti-hero now than not.

Harley Quinn. Hardy Quinn Harley Quinn Margo Robbie Yeah Taras Strong I think Did a voice Somebody else

Yeah I think she voices her She voices her in the Harley Quinn animated show That's on HBO Max currently Oh I don't think Taras Strong does I think that was Kaylee Kuko Oh fair enough I think Yeah the Tara Strong has done her before then

Tara Strong I think the video games i think she did like asylum or something but there was somebody before her that did the tv show that wasn't tarry strong i don't remember who that was um but i know tyra strong staffing done harlequin at some point it was arline sorkin was the original right that makes sense fair enough um very popular character i would say i would say more than well my that Hardy Quinn airs on the side of villain. Like I could see, obviously I haven't been reading the comics recently,

but I could see that like if you were to say Hardy Quinn was more of a villain, the Catwoman, I'd be like, yeah, that makes sense. I could see that. I think that. She's easier to turn. Yeah. I think.

And she's a big name. Like Margaret Robbie, I think, did a big number for Hardy Quinn. Do you know, like there was like three years in a row where every time you went to a Comic-Con, every woman was dressed like Hardy Quinn. That happened, like, for a long time. I'm like, there's other characters, dude.

Other people help be as well-bats. Come on, man, you know. But she, like, she was very, very popular. I'm going to have to, I'm going to put it with Catwoman. I want to say A tier. Okay. That's fair. I was supposed to say a B-tier, but I'm like, you know what?

Because she's so popular, as a villain, I see him a catwoman, as a villain, no but as a character yeah everybody knows hardy Quinn okay yeah I'm happy with that all right uh next up man with no introduction needed it's the joker oh F next next F F tier it is put him in all right next up do you do we want to do you think there's more to it he's an F tier I mean if you want to leave him F tier, we'll leave him an F tier, we'll move on. We have to talk with this. I don't want to.

We do. I hate the Joker as a character. Okay. I don't like him. I think he's inconsistent. I think that people don't know how to write him. He's just a crazy clown. And I think that A, a lot of people back in the day used to just just banking him being a crazy clown as a character trait, which isn't good. And then B, now people do the Heath Ledger Joker thing where he's just this psychotic, like, unpredictable, crazy, like, seven steps ahead of everybody, madman, which he isn't. He's fucking fine, right? I really don't like the Joker. I just not like, I'm not, but obviously I'm not

going to put him in F tier, right? Let's, I can't put him in F here. I just wanted to let people know I don't like the Joker's as a character. I think he's just not fun. Like, I thought that he thought his Joker was great. I thought that Jack Nicholson Joker was great. I thought that Jack Nicholson Joker was great. Like, that's, that's all great, right? But as a villain, I think that people have just, they've idolized him too much. They put him on a pencil too much. They've ruined that character. He's not fun. He's supposed to be fun. He's not. He's just this really weird, grotesque, horrible guy that always ends up getting away with everything. And he's just a regular man wearing a fucking Klein makeup and they're like, how does this guy

like always end up on top? Hi, hi, hi, hi. With Batman, supposedly the world's greatest detective always ends up putting him in jail, always catches him, always spoils his problem. How does the Joker always come out unskied?

What is it by one character? Out of all the other fucking characters, this fucking client, why is it him that's always the one that's the winner? I don't get it. I don't. I don't at it. I don't like him. Part of that might be

because he's a client and they're supposed to be unlikable. I don't buy that. I know I'm supposed to put him an after tier. This is a thing, right? People are going to yell at me if I don't put the Joker in a test here. Aren't they? It's your call. Right. Well, then fuck him

aft tier. Jokers and after. Jokers and F tier. John will have fun with that, I think. John is so my dick. But do you what I mean, though? Listen, if I'm being,

if we're being like, like, you know, some of the rules that have applied to some of these other guys, if you're talking about upper mid-carters, yada, yada, yada, yada. Joker is asked here, right?

And for being fair, Joker, what's the best Rast and equivalent I could do? Let's say Joker is like Hulk Hogan, because everybody knows him. He's always on TV. He's always pop. but also when you look at them under like surface level can't wrestle for shit and you hate him you're just sick of seeing him yes yes so like in a way Hulk Hogan you know in that in that terms Hulk Hogan's the most popular wrestler of all time but also he's dog shit nobody likes him right so if that's the parameters we're going with then yes Joker is an S tier so let's put him an S tier but let's bracket it and say Hulk Hogan

right but of an S-tier bracket Hulk Hogan Joker but you have to write Hulk Hogan after that okay and we all know what that means we all know what that means

so yes he is an S-tier but also he's Hulk Hogan so wrestling fans who go to a show when they see Hulk Hogan yes he's the most popular wrestler of all time but also he's still

Hulk Hogan so deal with that he makes children cry just by promoting his beer, is that what you want as your figurehead? Is that what you want an S-tier? I think that kind of behavior is reprehensible. I would put it in an apt tier. But everybody else, yeah, blah, blah, blah, bah, ass tier, whatever. Also, bracket that as well. Joker, brackets, Hulk Hoveen, closed brackets, open brackets. Dylan really wants him an F tier, close brackets. There you go. Put them in both, right? I'll put them in both. I'll put them in both. I'll put them in

the top and the bottom. Fuck the Joker. There you go. Next. All right, next. We have a character that I don't know if you would have ever heard of. Hugo Strange. I have heard of him. Okay, cool, cool. What do you know about Hugo Strange? I don't know on the bottom.

So Hugo Strange is effectively a brilliant psychiatrist that becomes obsessed with Bruce Wayne's mind after learning that he's Batman. and basically keeps putting him through a psychological ringer to basically see, like, what is it that makes this guy want to do this particular thing? He has gone so far as to fake his death and make Batman, you know, believe that he was responsible for the death. And, like, that was a long con that ran for a long time of the ghost of Hugo's strange, haunting Bruce Wayne.

So, so, yeah, basically brilliant psychiatrist that is mentally fucks with Bruce Wayne. harder than most people would ever try. Except for a clown. That's apt here. How did he find out who Bruce Wayne is? Basically, he analyzed Batman's gadgets and projectiles. Apparently, he also figured out that like the subtle references to the Wayne Tech logo that was hidden in some of Bruce's gadgets.

and created a psychological profile of a likely candidate of who Batman would be. And, yeah, basically deduction. He's like, to be Batman, you need to have a lot of fucking money in order to build all this shit. And somebody who had traumatic childhood, well, here's Bruce Wayne who watches his parents die in front of him when he was a child and has a lot of fucking money. He's probably Batman. That sounds like total bullshit. So I'm going to say D. D.

Okay. I was going to put him in C tier. but I'm like, I don't think he's better than hush. No, I don't think he would be. I don't think he's... Next up, you know? Yeah, next up, I think the most recent addition to the Batman Rokes Gallery in recent years

and the most... Definitely one's getting the most play is the court of owls, specifically Talon, who is one of their assassins. Yeah, I've heard of them. Are you putting Talon in or the whole court? I'm going to do the whole court of owls because it's like the picture is focused on Talon,

but it is obviously, there's more than one talon. Talons are basically their assassins. I hear that they've been a big deal like the last, like 10, 15 years. Yeah, about the last like 13-ish years since the new 52 launch. They were the, they were the Batman storyline that launched the new 52.

Yeah, they've been a big... It was Scott Snyders. It was Scott Snyders jumped to Batman from independent horror comics. Oh, is Scott Snyder were better with comics and Zach Schneider? Boy, I have my opinions on Scott Snyder. I think Scott Snyder has a lot of brilliant ideas.

I think he just doesn't know how to finish the story. Because I personally, I'm of the opinion that the Court of Owls ended with like, kind of ended really weak. And I read one of his horror comics that he wrote through Dark Horse comics called Canary. Brilliant setup, a lot of really creepy, spooky stuff going on. Ending was flat. Same thing. He had another independent comic book through, I think it was Image Comics called Severed.

That was kind of the same deal. Really creepy, really atmospheric, good buildup, and then it ended. And you're like, oh, okay, well, it's over. Okay. So they've been like fucking with Batman then. Yeah, so the court of Alas are basically a secret organization that is Gotham City's elite. They all hide their behind anonymity. And basically, they've been the movers and shakers behind Gotham. for centuries. And Batman, it was sort of like a moment of Batman's hubris where he thought he knew Gotham in and out until he started seeing signs that he did not.

One of the big ones being that Penguin was terrified of the Court of Owls because Penguin is old money and his family would have been associated with them. And he basically got disowned by the Court of Alice because of his activities as Penguin with an agreement of, I'm not going to fuck with you, you don't fuck with me. Also because I ate penguins. Yep.

owls eat penguins yep as simple as that happy enough with that okay we'll move on um to me they seem like a like I've heard of them because they seem like

if you're listening to like recent Batman stuff like I said last 10 ish years they seem to come up a lot I'm gonna say yeah I want to say B tier just because I feel like they're like a big recent kind of big bad that are still relevant, you know? Yeah, yeah. That's what I'm going to say. I'm going to write

quart of aisles. Okay. You know I mean talon as well. Sure. Yeah, I mean, talons are basically, they are, you know how winter soldier, they would just thaw him out to do a job and then freeze them again? Sure. That is what the talons are. The talons are essentially like undead bodies that they thaw out, reanimate to do a job, and then put back up. under ice when they're done with them. Okay. Good. So next up, we just mentioned it by name.

It's the penguin. Oh, ass here. Stop even fucking around, dude. Okay. He's the best. Yeah. That many a bit, though. Fast penguin.

There you go. Hello. Colin Farrell. Another Irish boy. Very good penguin. A lot of Irishmen in the Batman Rugs Gallery. I've noticed. Yeah.

Irish people are. villains. Great villains. Great villains. It's so good, man. Great villains. I love the penguin.

He's one of my favorite villains. You know, I just, I think he's so, he's so comic booky. There's so much bottom that, like, I don't know how you couldn't like that guy.

I mean, obviously it's a lot of villainous stuff, so you wouldn't like him for that. But you know what I mean? Yeah. He's, but he's always been one of the big, I would say there's like like well I would say like four or five like big Batman villains

big Batman names penguins always in that list okay so I'm going to put penguin as here we can talk about how good the penguin is if you want you probably want to this show at some point so we'll keep going it's your call it's your call you want to say anything you want to say about penguin floor is yours I fucking love the penguin we've talked about Don in the video as a penguin yes right yeah we did that one didn't get i was like which bobman i was so good it was the nolan it was the nolan ones that got fucked right so the good one where we got to talk about how good done in the video is as a penguin existed i love that i love donna dvito i love the penguin um i think he's just a great character overall it's a lot of fun very

recognizable like very distinct there's a lot you can love about the penguin just such great character you know what you mean yeah i also love the idea of of a penguin versus a bat beautiful stuff so up next poison ivy oh you know what i want to do right just because cattle and a hardy quater are in a tier i feel like poison ivy pretty similar deal i would i see them all at the same level okay do you mean i like poise ninety even a thermine. Yeah, so you see her as an A-tier as well. I would put Poison Ivy in A-tier, yeah.

I think, like I said, there's like a handful of like, bam-bam, you know those Batman villains. Poisonedin'i's like on the cusp. Like, she's like flip-flop and like she could be like any day and I would put her like A-tier. But like on the cusp, like Catwoman on the cusp. got a power upgrade now and she's pretty much on the same tier swamp thing when it comes to her power

of her nature. She eats that bug guy? Probably. What was this name? Weed Wacker? Was there weed wacker? It was like weed whacker, I think. Weird. Weed killer. It was something like that. Weed killer. Yeah, it was probably

a weed killer. All right. Well, that was for us. It was pretty bad for us. So, you know. So next up is a Grant Morrison creation. I don't know, because he is so

recent, I'm not sure how familiar you are with him. Are you familiar with Professor Pig? Yes, I am. Oh, perfect. He is a Grand Marcy character. Yes. Yes. I like him. Okay. I do. But I feel like because he's kind of new and I don't know

how well they followed up with him, I don't think I can put him any higher than be realistically. Like, again, our bias is coming in here. We love a bit of Grant Morrison. And I think he's a fun character. I think he's better than man bad, right? He's very disturbing. Yeah.

But in a better way than the Matt Hatter is, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, more fun to read than just a weird, creepy pedophile. That's not fun to read. Imagine. So I think I would say again like like B, C like cost. I would say yeah, like lower B tier. You know what you mean? Okay. I would say I like him. I think he's in it. Again, another interesting character that again, I think they haven't really followed up on because that happens a lot about like new characters when they introduce them. sometimes it's hard to follow up on those characters and keep building them up. I feel like Professor Pigs, one of those guys that has loads of potential,

but people just aren't writing him because they're like, well, Morrison did a great job. What else do we do? He was a featured villain, and there was an animated show that was only on for one season called Beware the Batman. And I think he was one of the main villains and Beware the Batman. That's good. He deserves it.

You know, it's an interesting character. So yeah, I would say B tier. Okay. I'm happy with that. Next up is the ventriloquist. Oh, fuck. You are with the ventriloquist and Scarface. I mean, we're probably talking about after here, but like indulge me a little bit.

Sure. So ventriloquist is a schizophrenic man who believes that his wooden puppet is a mob boss. and more specifically that he is terrified of and intimidated of this ventriloquist puppet. There was a period of time where the original ventriloquist died, and there was a new ventriloquist that was a smoking hot blonde lady. That was the puppeteer of Scarface. But that is not the case any longer. It is back to being the old man.

That's a shame. They could have got an extra point. Could have got an extra point. So Ventriloqu is going on F tier. for you that? Seems like it, doesn't it? Is he on the same tier as

Firefly and the Mad Hatter? And the Joker. And the Joker. I have the Joker in both tiers. Yes. Top and bottom. And I will fight people with this.

Okay. Ventriloquist, though, I'm not going to fight them. He, like, who gives a shit? Right. Okay. So here's the thing, right? Here's the thing.

If the Vitroquist wasn't in Batman, Yeah. Would you notice? Absolutely not. Bango, F tier. He had some good episodes in the animated series, but that's about as far as I would take it. Right. So that gives him a couple extra points, but like, not enough to get him up the D's here. Yeah.

You know what you mean? So next up is our third of the kind of iffy ones. This is the second Robin, Jason Todd, under the moniker the Red Hood. because when they brought him back, originally he was more of a villain that they have transitioned over into more heroic role since the new 52.

But pre-flashpoint, Red Hood was considered more of a villain than anything. Flash. Sabby War. Flashpoint, man. Get you every time. Oh, that fucking Flash. This is why I don't like talking about DC.

Flash was Abby War. What do you mean? This could have been the one episode. No more Flash. A great time. No, no, no. Flashpoint. That, blah, la, la. I have heard of this guy.

Part of why I've heard of this guy is probably because you've talked about him. Yeah, well, we had the Robin episode where we talked about the various Robbins. Yes, we've talked with Robbins a lot, a lot, a lot. I'm tempted to say, like, be your seat here. Sure. What has he done to Batman?

Oh, I kick, you know. Well, so, I mean, he is responsible for a lot of Batman's guilt for a long period of time because he felt he failed Jason. When Jason came back from the dead, one of the first things he did was basically go after Bruce for essentially like, wow, you know, I understand you never wanted to kill any of the villains, but you couldn't make an exception for Joker considering he killed me and I was your partner, aka your son. By Joker's apt here. Yeah. You got beat with a crowbar and then blown up in a building. That's how they killed Jason Todd. But no, like really, there was a lot of like fucking with him psychologically in that sense. He and Bruce never really came to blows for the most part. They had a very tense relationship at times. Even now with Jason in more of the heroic role, Bruce is always very conscious of the fact that Jason has no problem with killing criminals. So Jason Todd is an equivalent to Punisher to a degree. Like he is the guy that's like, listen, sometimes some people just don't need to be alive anymore.

I agree. But yeah, no, he is much more on the side of angels now than he was originally. Again, I'm torn. Okay. Once again, I'm torn with a B and a C, do you know? Sure. I feel like either what he did to Batman, psychologically sure, but like when it came to like actually fighting Batman, not a whole lot of stuff went on. Yeah, I guess it's one of those, Batman doesn't really like to fight him, doesn't want to fight him.

Because it's still his kid often. So again, if we're talking about like a pro wrestling scenario, Batman has issue with this guy, but doesn't fight him that often, then you're like, well, why would we get invested in that guy? because there's no there's no payoff to the fight. There's no reason to watch the- And I think that's... And that's probably why they've moved beyond Jason Todd being a villain.

He was a villain for the... He was a villain for the Grant Morrison Batman run where Dick Grayson was Batman. But then that was more of an obvious conflict because you have two Bruce's sons in Bruce's absence. You have his first son, the prodigal son, Nightwing, taking his father's place as Batman.

And then you have his second. son Jason Todd, who is the black sheep of the family, taking on the villainous role of the Red Hood and clashing. You know what? I'm going to say C-tier. See? Okay. Yeah, that's what I'm going to say.

Fair enough. Yeah. All right. Next up, we have one of the oldest characters on the list. He is an undead revenant that whenever he does die and comes back, he comes back a little bit different every single time. It's Solomon Grundy. Okay.

So Solomon Grundy is undead for all intents purposes. He is a giant hulking zombie. So super strength, super durability. When he does die, he pulls himself back out of slaughter swamp, which is where his body was originally laid to rest. And he will come back different. Sometimes he's come back smaller. Sometimes he's come back even bigger or stronger. One time he came back with a genius level intellect.

and nearly killed the Justice League. Wow. But for the most part, Solomon Grundy is sort of a kind of, you use more often not that it as an obstacle, like a thug almost, in the Arkham City game. When you're going to go confront the penguin,

you have a mini-boss battle against the resurrected Solomon Grundy that Penguin had been keeping hidden, frozen in ice underneath the iceberg lounge. Okay. I feel like like I've heard of this guy but he's a little bit like Hugo

Strange and that I've heard of him but I don't know what he does so I'm like on the cost of like C and D tier but because I acquitted him to Hugo Strange I feel like D tier is probably area for him right like he's close to see but like

I would put him yeah on D tier okay yeah I'm happy with that all right next up we have the Riddler Can I change something?

Yeah, go ahead, change. Can I put Killer Moth down one? Put him to F tier, sure. Well, I have an E tier. I do not have an E tier, unfortunately, is not an option for me. Put this caveat in here. I want Killer Moth in E tier. I will put him at the top of F tier.

That's the best I can do. Whenever we're doing the next episode with John, let it be known that Killer Moth is actually an E tier. Okay. Not an F tier. Okay. Okay. All right. So next up, we have The Riddler. I like The Riddler. I really do. I think he's one of those, you know, I said that was like a handful of like popular thieves of the villain from Batman. The Riddler is like right up there. Okay.

I think part of that is like the, you know, the Adam West Batman show. Yeah, Frank. Or should play Riddler? A lot of those really popular. recurring villains were ingreating in people's minds and those are the ones that like people remember and I know that like later on

the Riddler has had a lot of like really good success stories obviously Jim Carrey played him in a role that I don't hate yeah with this I watched it in a movie theater very recently and I will tell you Jim Carrey is Ridler is way better than I remembered

remembered him being it's fun it's fun exactly it's so much fun. I watched that, whenever I got COVID a few weeks ago, I watched that and the Batman returns. I don't know why. I had a fever and I was like, I have to watch Batman. Got to watch some 90s Batman. And I watch Batman Returns because I love Batman Returns. And then I was like, well, let me just watch this Jim Carrey when to see if it's good. It's still good. I mean, as a film, it's kind of all over the place. But Jim Carrey is a great

riddler. It's a very different, interesting riddler. that I like. And, um, oh, Paul Dano was, Paul Dano was great in the Batman. You,

I haven't seen that film, but I know Paul Dano was the Riddler. And I loved the, uh, idea they did with him. The way that played that Riddler as a new character. Like, that's great.

I think that's a lot of fun. I would put Riddler and S tier. Okay. I'm going to say that. I love the Riddler. Yeah. I think he's so he's, but also.

Also, what's really important is that he's a fun Batman villain. Yes. Like, he is a Batman villain. Batman's a detective. The Riddler sends riddles to Batman for him to the cipher and decode. That's fun. That's... You would really like the Batman movie then because there's a lot of detective work of, like, Batman

trying to figure out what these clues are and figure out the puzzles. There's a lot of that, so I think you would enjoy it. I haven't seen it, but I like the idea of the idea of, like, him being like the zodiac killer and then Batman being the one guy like like that's great that's such an obvious yeah you would really you would really enjoy it so that is my recommendation for you is to watch that because it is the most detective Batman movie they've put out yet that was a robin paterson one right Robert Pattinson yep there's any funniest that like for years I'm like oh he's just a fucking vampire guy vampire guy but then I saw a film called Mickey 17 recently with him and him

I've been wanting to see that is it good dude see that film. That film made me go. Do that tomorrow then. He can act. That was, he was so good in that film. So good. Like, I love, that's a great. That's the best one I've seen all year. That watch that film, dude. It's really, really good. It'll twist the tourney in ways you haven't, you didn't expect it. Nice. Really liked that film. So now I am like second guessing, like him as Batman. Because I always saw it that like, that guy's Batman. So he plays a young Batman. Like, that's the thing is this is Bruce Wayne.

He's only been Batman for a year now. It's good, though. Yeah. Well, that's why I'm like... There's no origin movie aspect of it, so there's no, like, watching the family get gunned down again, shit. Straight end. He's very good.

I got to say, man, after that film, I'm like, I've changed my mind with that guy. He's a very good actor. You would really like the Batman then. Because, again, Zoy Kravitz is a great catwoman, too. And your boy Colin is the penguin. And it's got John Titoro. Come on.

Who would love John Tuturo? A lot going on. A lot going on. It's a good movie. We see my boy. He says the penguin in that film? Colin Farrell? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Because I do he's in the show. I didn't know that he was... Yeah, yeah. The show takes place after the movie. Okay. So, like, at this point, yeah, at this point, Yeah, at this point, Penguin is like a lower level member of the Falcone crime family.

So the show is about him rising up the ranks. Yeah, but like he hasn't have the makeup one, does he? Oh, yeah, he does. Got the whole thing. Maybe I will watch that show. Yeah, you should. It's good. It's real good.

To get back to our list, though, real quick. No, it's talking about Penguin. Keep talking about Penguin. Next up, we have Two-Face, who is. was the other villain in Batman forever. Correct. Two-Face is another one that I think is very recognizable as a Batman villain. Okay.

Two-face, like, again, the duality of man, that coin flip, literally, between good and evil, whereas Batman is supposedly on the side of good. The idea of Toepheus is to draw out the fact that Batman is like a sliver away from me. being a bad person. He's a vigilante. He's going out there punching people in the face. He can say he's the detective and he's pretending that they're good or bad, but he doesn't know they're good or bad.

I mean, obviously, like, some of them are fucking bad, right? The Joker's bad. We, fair, right? We know this. FTAire. But I mean, like, the idea of, like, what Batman does is crazy.

And Toofias is kind of that moral ass, like, You know, are you crazy? Are you more like us than you think you are? That's something I don't think they always play up a lot. But I think that that's an anglers always are with Toothace. It's that duality of man kind of thing that I think works very well with Batman. I'm going to say Tooface is S tier. Okay.

Like 100%. I think he's one of those big classic, you know what I mean? If you think a big classic Batman characters, Two-Face, Riddler, Penguin, I suppose the Joker. Yeah, he's there. I have to say the Joker, but you know what I mean? Contractually, contractually, you have to say the Joker. Yes.

Yes, let it be know that I don't want to have to say it, but I have to say it. Yes, you have to say it. So next up, we have a character who, again, these next to you, I don't know if you would know them or not. This one is black mask. Are you familiar with black mask? The name sounds familiar. Okay. So black mask is the head of a crime family.

He's obsessed with masks, as a saying goes. He is disfigured underneath his that he wears. His kind of gimmick, though, is more so about torture. Remember we talked about when we had the Robbins episode, there was the Stephanie Brown, who was the fourth Robin, and how she died in action. Black Mask was the guy who did that job. Okay.

Basically, he basically captured her and tortured her to death of the power drill. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, he's, he's a sociopath, for sure. That boy. Yep, for sure, a bit of a sociopath. Your Irish connection is going to, actually, oh boy, I think I'm wrong on this. I'm going to take that back.

No, say it. You and McGregor? Yes Irish Okay I thought you Scott Like the second it came out I always said Scottish I wait

Wait Fuck is you McGregor One of us Let's take a look I'll look at it real quick Uh U and McGregor is

Scottish No he is got Scottish Yeah Here's a thing Yes This is a tree story if you live in Northern Ireland it's a very small country

and obviously if you go to the bottom of Northern Ireland everybody sounds like they're from the south of Ireland. They've had sounded very Irish but if you go to the north of Ireland everybody sounds very Scottish and I don't know how this

happened you don't even mean like the closer we get to that country the more we start even with the Scotland one we're across the pond if you go north in Northern Ireland they all of a sudden very Scottish

it's unbelievable so I'm going to use that as my excuse as to why I made You claim ownership that's fine also you and McGregor it could go either way McGregor yes that's why I was thinking with the second I was like wait McGregor

though could go underway that could be Irish could be Scottish it's definitely not English fuck that but you know what I mean very you know pretty close the thing about Ireland is In Scotland, we have a very close connection.

So we're basically the same country. Yeah, you're like cousins. Very close, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Ewe McGregor. Who are we talking about? Oh, Black Mask. Yes.

Hugh and McGregor played the Black Mask character in a movie that most people forgot existed called Birds of Prey and the Emancipation of Harley Quinn. Okay. So he was the big bad of that as, Roman Cionis, who is Black Mask's alter ego. Okay. So what do you think about the black, what's the biggest thing the Black Mask is done? What do you think?

I mean, um, definitely taking advantage of the War Games storyline to kill Stephanie Brown. That's up there. Who's Stephanie Brown? Usually she's the fourth Robin. Oh yeah, I knew that. Yeah. aside from that, usually Thorne in the side of Catwoman more often than not. He's more of a crime family guy, more of a mob guy.

The mask is just a mask. He doesn't have like superpowers. He's not like super gimmicky for the most part. Crime boss with a mask. All right. I don't know. Decapoid this guy, Black Mask. Let's just put him in D tier.

D? Okay. Yeah. All right. But he's not like Red Hood. Yeah. Fun fact, Red Hood almost killed him. Almost.

Oh, Red Hood fucking kill this. Come on. Don't we can put you down in tear. So our last person on the list, and then we'll do a recap, see if there's any changes you want to make, is a character who's a serial killer by the name of Mr. Zaz. Are you familiar, Mr. Zaz? So, Zaz is a serial killer, and his gimmick is that once he kills someone, he carves a tally mark into his body. So he is quite literally covered in tally murder scars, but he's a serial killer with a knife.

He's very creepy, little unsettling, like a good serial killer should be, but there's nothing supernatural about him. That doesn't matter. What matters is what impact has he had on Batman comics? Mr. Saz. Let me see. I know that he is like your first mini boss

in the Arkham Asylum, game. That sounds like he's pretty low down the list. Yeah, villain, it's psychopathic serial killer first appeared in Batman's Shadow of the Bat Number One. Saddamasticistic Hitman. I think he had a cameo in Dark Night. I think you see a, I think you see somebody like in one of the prison ships with like the tally mark scars, but that's about it. Dude. I mean, he's a serial killer. He stalks people and murdering. But what? So how many times Spallin fought him? Several. He's pretty, he's, if you're going to use him, he's, he's around.

He doesn't sound like a big deal. He really doesn't. No, not really. I mean, I'll be honest with you. He's not really. I'm going to say D tier. That's fair. What's his name? Mr. Zaz. Last name is spelled Z or Z, S-A-S-Z. That's a shitty. You know what? fuck that F tier. After here. After tier.

His name. F tier. Yeah, you're never going to see him in an animated show for sure, because that's his whole gimmick is slit in throats. All right. So, Dylan. Carnage's own thing was he was a serial killer and he was in like a load of the Spider-Man episode.

So this guy. Because I think, yeah, because I think aesthetically you could do a lot with a red venom essentially. this is just a dude covered he was covered in self-mutilation scarred right fucking nothing go on for me he sucks ass man so again I think a weakness of this particular tier list

we're using is that Mr. Freeze is not here we will save that well I was going to say can we put a caveat where we could just put Mr. Freeze on the list anyway well I was going to say that we'll say that for the next episode when we're comparing our lists because I don't think John realized that Mr. Freeze wasn't on there so

I don't know where John would put freeze So they will save that for when we're all together. I'm going to say I know exactly why I put Mr. Prys. I'm going to put him on my list. Okay, cool. Okay, he's on my list. I know why I put him. I mentally have him on my list, too.

Cool. So as a quick recap, Dylan, on F tier, you have Killer Moth, Firefly, Matt Hatter, the ventriloquist. Well, technically, yes, but he's done E-tier. Yes. Killer Moth is on E-tier. but top of F tier on mine Firefly

Matt Hatter ventriloquist Mr. Zaz parenthesis the Joker Yes There you go D tier You have Dead shot

Hugo Strange Solomon Grundy Black Mask Yes C tier man bat Deathstroke the Terminator Hush and Jason Todd

Yes B Tier, Killer Croc, Scarecrow, the Court of Owls slash Tallinn, Professor Pig. Yes. A tier, Razel, Gould, Bain, Catwoman, Harley Quinn, and Poison Ivy. Yes. And S-tier, you have Joker, parentheses, Hulk Hogan, the Penguin, the Ridler, and Two-Face. Correct.

All right, perfect. That's hard to beat. Now, is there anything that you want to make changes to this? list. I'm tempted to put Manbat down to D because I don't know if he's as good as like Deathstroke or Hush. Okay. Should we do that?

If you, it's your list, you tell me. He gives a shit about Manbad, yes, stick him in D. All right, we'll move him down to D here. Okay. Okay. Any other changes you'd like to make? No. All right, perfect. I mean, obviously the big change I want to do

is the Joker, but I can't do that. because people are going to fight. It was an outrage. Fuck him. You know, you know I'm right. Not about, maybe not about Apteer, but you know I'm right. Yeah. Joker is somebody they need to practice more restraint with, for sure.

He needs to be on that hush area of like, only write the Joker if you got a really good story in mind. Right. They have that problem where they're like, we have to write the Joker. Like, no, you don't. then it becomes Hulk Hogan and he's always on TV and I got fed up with this cunt and you're not doing a good story he's just always there and he's just like

I'm the Joker that's not fun you're not doing it well that's why in the first if we're talking about the Nolan Batman's which I guess we should talk about really quick right now first film they did

Joker wasn't in it they don't need the Joker they don't need him Batman's a good character without the Joker then when they did put the Joker they put him in because that's when they them. You didn't need them in the third one. They add them perfectly. They don't need to keep fucking bringing that character back. Do it smart. It's just about anything. You know what you mean?

Yeah. Ah, anyway. Anyway. So, Dylan, that's your list. I'm going to export that and send it over to you, even though you have been taking your own notes on that. Um, next week, when we're all back together, what I think we'll do is I'm going to create a brand new tier list. and we're going to have a three-way debate on we'll go through each name on the list. We'll stay where we have them ranked and if we can dissuade the other person if we need to on where they are. Because I'll tell you, there are some differences between you and John already, I can see. I know what one of them is. But yeah, no, I think that would be fun for episode three, but that'll be it for episode two.

Is there anything that you would like to plug? I don't think so. I don't do anything anymore. Okay, fair enough. Whatever. Buy your book. Yeah, it's on Amazon, I guess. Is it? Yeah, just buy my book.

It's good. Buy your book. Is it good? Is it by Shadow the Hedgehog? If I'm Shadow the Hedgehog, then yes. It is. But I only have my other podcast called Large Old Cup. It's also on Spotify.

by all means, check that out if you can. But until next time, I think that's going to do it for us. Like I said, we'll come back together next week when all of us are together. We'll combine our tier list to make the official Smart Avengers Batman Volunteer. Yes. Which I would love to do this with X-Men and other things. I think this worked out really well. This is fun.

Well, we'll see how it goes with the debate portion, because after the Marvel versus DC thing, God only knows what the fuck will happen. Yeah, that'll be something. All right. But until then, we'll see you guys later. Bye-bye. Goodbye. Bye-bye. Jeff's kiss. Beautiful.