The Spy Who - The Spy Who Almost Stopped 9/11 | Enhanced Interrogation | 3

Episode Date: September 1, 2026

At a CIA black site, FBI agent Ali Soufan is questioning the first high-value terrorist captured by the US since 9/11. But with the detainee’s wounds going septic and the CIA’s patience fading, the window for uncovering al-Qaeda’s next plot is closing fast.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of The Spy Who, add-free right now. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app. The following episode contains a depiction of torture and may not be suitable for all. March 2002, CIA headquarters Langley, Virginia. In a secure room deep in the building, CIA chief George Tenet listens as he's briefed on a new al-Qaeda plot. The detainee Abu Zubeda has reversed. revealed an active plot to carry out simultaneous suicide bombings of nightclubs in Tel Aviv. The stated goal is to kill approximately 200 people.

Despite his past connections with Al-Qaeda, we judged this intelligence to be reliable. Can we stop it? Yes, the detainee has revealed intimate details about the plan. Working with our Israeli partners, we should be able to prevent this one. This is great. Tell our team there to keep the good work up and give them my personal thanks. The CIA officer briefing Tenet looks nervous. Tenet's known for his charisma and ability to project warmth,

but also for his bluntness when things don't go his way, and he's about to hear something he won't like. Actually, sir, it's not our team. Tenet looks confused. Then whose team is it? It's an FBI agent doing the interrogation. Tenet's mood flips to rage. What's the FBI?

doing in the middle of our operation? Tell our people to get over to Thailand right away. This is a high value detainee. He's the crossroads of multiple al-Qaeda operations. We need our people on the ground. Not some cop who'll never see the bigger picture. He regains

his composure a little. For all we know, Abu Zubeda is feeding the FBI guy with Bologna. It could be hiding something bigger. We need to get more out of him. The CIA officer braces himself once more. He has more bad news for his boss.

Sir, that might not be possible. The latest report is that Abu Zubeda's condition is now critical. Without hospital treatment, he'll die. But rather than erupting again, Tenor takes this in quietly and nods. He plays events out in his head. The legality of what the CIA is doing to detainees abroad isn't settled. Sending Abu Zubeda to hospital could expose the CIA black sight.

It could also embarrass the Thai government and alert Al-Qaeda to where Zubeda is. But the need for intelligence and the wider war on terror trumps all that. Tenets made up his mind. Him dying is unacceptable. Tell them, death is not an option. James Arthur Ray was a charismatic self-help guru who promised his followers a path to wealth and enlightenment by becoming the best versions of themselves. but not all who followed him

finished their journey. For the best Vingable series, listen to the Audible True Crime podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm David Brown, the host of Business Wars from Audible Originals. In our new season, Sweet and Low, Equal, and Splenda

are locked in a bitter fight battling for billions while scientists and regulators threaten to shut them all down. Make sure to listen to Business Wars on Audible or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Raza Jaffrey, and this is The Spy Who, an audible original. In the last episode, Al-Qaeda carried out the devastating 9-11 attacks on the US,

killing almost 3,000 people, including Ali Sufant's former boss, John O'Neill, and wounding many thousands more. And the attacks might have been preventable if the CIA hadn't withheld information about the future hijackers from the FBI. Now, FBI agent Ali Sufhan is in a secret CIA black site in Thailand, questioning Abu Zubeda, the first high-profile terrorist captured since 9-11. But his injured detainee is close to death and is about to get stuck in the middle of an FBI-CIA turf wall. This is episode 3. Enhanced interrogation.

April 1st, 2002. detention site Green, the CIA's secret prison in Thailand. FBI agent Ali Sufhan looks at the prisoner he's supposed to be interrogating, Abu Zubeda. He's not a member of Al-Qaeda but runs a jihadist training camp in Afghanistan and has helped the terrorist organization in the past, and he's dying. The gunshot wounds he sustained during capture have turned to sepsis. He's groggy and weak with fever,

and the medics, tending him, are out of ways to stop the infection. He needs to go to the hospital. But how can they do that without exposing the CIA black sight in Thailand? As the medics bathe Abu Zubedo with wet towels to keep his temperature down, the CIA security chief proposes an idea. Now, this is a long shot. I'll tell you the longest shot you've got if it means keeping him alive. Okay?

How about we pretend to be soldiers? Sivan frowns, trying to work out where the CIA officer is going with this. And we pretend that Zubeda is one of us. So we pretend he's a soldier too? Yes. But we say he went crazy during an exercise and had to be shot to be contained. That would explain his injuries and the handcuffs. Sifan isn't convinced.

His wounds aren't fresh. Look, I know it's not much, but the clock is ticking. So if you've got anything better, now's the time. Saffan nods. It's the only plan they have, so it'll have to do. Minutes later, on route to the hospital, Sophan, now dressed in an army uniform, watches in horror, as Abu Zubeda's condition deteriorates.

He's struggling to breathe, and the medics are struggling to keep him alive in the cramped and jolting vehicle. He needs air. We need to perform an emergency tracheotomy. I'll cut. You ready? Hold him steady.

The medic performs the tracheotomy, cutting a hole in Abu Zubeda's neck, and swiftly inserts a tube. That borders a few minutes. Now we need to pump air into his lungs. I'll need help. The medics, Sufant, and the CIA security chief, take turns pumping air through the tube as they rattle towards the hospital. The next day, at the hospital. Abu Zubeda opens his eyes, only to close them at the sting of the bright white light. He opens them once more, slowly.

He feels numb. He tries to speak, but no words come. As he gets used to the bright light, he sees two young women smiling down on him. He wonders if this is it. Is this paradise? He's back with us. He turns his head towards the voice and sees the face of Sufane.

He glances down and sees he's in a hospital. bed. Another of his interrogators is standing at the end of the bed. He tries to speak. Sivan leans closer and whispers in his ear. Just play alone. We're doing this to save your life. If you play any games, it's yourself you're endangering. It's a few hours later, and in the hospital, Sufan has resumed interrogating Abu Zubeda. He's weak, but awake, and the need to clean intelligence from him while it's still actionable. is the priority. When did you last see Osama bin Laden?

After 9-11. Just after Pakistan betrayed us and turned against the Taliban to help America. Was bin Laden planning any attacks? Abu Zabeda winces and resettles himself in the bed? Yes. He has people working on plots. Like who?

Al-Zeyad. Sufhan recognizes the name. Azeat is an alias of one of the terrorists on the FBI's most wanted list. He's being sought for his role in the 1998 U.S. Embassy attacks in East Africa. Sufane uses his personal digital assistant to bring up a picture of Azeid. The device starts loading the image at a glacial pace. Not wanting to waste time, Sufane flips the screen round so Abu Zubeda can see it. Is this Azeid?

Abu Zabeda squints at the screen and looks confused. No, it isn't. Sifan normally tries to stay cool, but after the rush to get to the hospital, he's unable to contain his anger. What do you mean it isn't? We just saved your life and you're playing games with us. Abu Zabeda tries to lift his head from the pillow.

I'm not playing games. Please, don't play games with me either. I am showing you, I say it's picture, and you say it's not him. So who the fuck is it? That's not Azayat. It's Mukta. Sufhan freezes.

US intelligence is aware of a high-ranking al-Qaeda operative with the nickname Mocta, but it has no idea of his real identity. Sufan turns the PDA around to check the screen and realizes he loaded the wrong image. This isn't Azad. It's colored Sheikh Mohammed, who's known to his head.

to be involved in al-Qaeda's media operations and is nicknamed KSM. Quickly, Sifan realizes what's just happened. He's accidentally shown Zubeda a picture of KSM, causing Abu Zubeda to reveal that he is also known as Mokhtar. US intelligence thought these were two different terrorists. Now they know they are one and the same. Sufan stifles his surprise. He has to make the most at this moment.

No. Sorry, you're right. You're right. Wrong photo. But since Mokta's picture is up, why don't you tell me about him? Abu Zubeda is now flagging with tiredness. You know he is. Please don't play with me, brother. Zavarne says nothing. He just stares at Abu Zubeda. He's the one. The one who did thee play in his operation. As Zubeda drifts off,

Sufane absorbs the enormity of what he's just learned. He's just uncovered the identity of the mastermind of 9-11. And all because he selected the wrong image. Eight days later, the CIA black site in Thailand. Abu Zubeda is back from hospital, and Sufant is continuing to interrogate him while he regains his strength. But a CIA interrogation team has just flown in, and with them is a psychologist and independent contractor named Boris.

His eyes sparkle with arrogance as he informs Sufan that he is now overseeing the interrogation. He made some progress with the detainee and we thank you for that, but we believe he knows a lot more than he's telling you. By now, Sophan is used to navigating the tricky relationship with the CIA, or so he thinks. I know we haven't got everything yet, but it's been a successful series of interrogations. We're building rapport.

It's a process, and he's cooperating. Boris barely seems to be listening. I've developed new methods of interrogation that will get everything out of him much more quickly. Now so, instead of building rapport, we will expose him to repeated adverse stimuli to induce a state of learned helplessness. After which, he will cooperate fully.

Abu Zabeda must know where bin Laden is, but that intelligence is decaying in value every second. So we need to make him talk faster, using my new methods. And what are these methods? We call it enhanced interrogation. Forced nudity, loud music, sleep deprivation. We lower his resistance and he'll give up his al-Qaeda secrets.

Abu Zabeda isn't even an al-Qaeda member and he's trained to resist torture. Boris looks unconvinced and unwilling to listen. This is a CIA operation and it has approved his approach. We know what we're doing. Abu Zabeda will buckle and become compliant. You'll see. Svon. Looks horrified.

You've played a role, though, in order for my technique to work. We need to send the message to Abu Zubeda that until now, he's had the chance to cooperate, but he blew it. He has to understand that we know he was playing games. And that game, he gestures at Sufane, is now over. Sufant narrows his eyes. And you've done this before? With an Islamic terrorist?

No. But I know human nature. The next day, In a darken room, Sufan watches Boris at work over CCTV. On the blurry screen, Sufan can make out Abu Zubeda in the interrogation room. He's been stripped naked and is being blasted with loud music. The music stops and Boris marches into the room. Abu Zabeda looks confused.

What do you want to know? Boris marches out and music starts again. One month later. In the CIA black site, Sophan continues to watch the ongoing interrogation over CCTV. His sense of outrage is mounting. Abu Zubeda might talk openly of his desire to behead Americans, but Sifan's struggling with the methods the CIA are using to get information from him. Sifan's been trained to get results by building rapport.

His approach is to make detainees feel they are being treated with dignity and respect. But Boris is a very different kind of operator. Sweaty and bedraggled, Abu Zubeda hasn't been allowed to sleep for 24 hours. Sufan watches as Boris fires questions at him. Where is bin Laden? Abu Zabedah's whole body seems to shudder. His head drifts slowly to one side. Boris smiles and ducks back into the room where Sufan is sat watching.

See how he tilts his head? It's working. They both watch the screen as Zubeda falls off his chair, having fallen asleep. He's asleep. How's that for submission? Boris snorts with derision. How is this helping? You're getting nowhere.

You've learned nothing at all. It's a process. But maybe we've not gone hard enough. Savan loses his temper. You're just making this up as you go along. And you're taking risks with information that could save lives. Imagine you're reading Pride and Prejudice, except you're not reading it. Harris Dickinson and Marissa Abella are reading it to you on Audible.

Her barbs sting you. His coldness sends a shiver up your spine. Your heart aches, your ears burn. You yearn for Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy to profess their undying love for one another. You can't bear it any longer. Well, maybe a chapter longer. Performance is so good, you'll give love a second chance. Audible. Stories that speak to you.

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After breakfast, Sufan arrives at the interrogation room to find a wooden box shaped like a coffee. He confronts Boris. What is that thing for? Boris appears unbothered. We requested permission

for something special. We're going to Try a mock burial to break him. Sifan is dumbfounded. He stares at the coffin. Can I try it? See what it's like? Sure.

Svon climbs into the coffin. The lid is put over him. He enters a world of total darkness. All sounds are muted. Sufan can barely move. When he tries to shift his arms, they knock against the sides of the coffin. It's such a tight space.

Clostrophobia grips him almost instantly. It's as if the coffin is crushing him. He hammers the lid of the coffin. Out! And yells to be let out. Let me out! Let me out! The lid is removed. Sufan climbs out.

How long was that? Just a few seconds. Svane struggles for air. He starts to say something to Boris and then thinks better of it. He stalks off to the site's secure satellite phone and calls FBI headquarters. He gets through to the assistant director of counterterrorism. He explains what Boris is doing to Abu Zubeda. There's a moment of silence.

Then the assistant director responds. Ali, uh, this is a, this is a bad line. Did you say they're putting him in a coffin? Yes. Ali, get out of that. The FBI cannot. be a part of it. You get out of there right now. Manhattan, September 11th, 2002. It's one year since 9-11. At the blasted site that is now called Ground Zero, Sufane marches with his FBI colleagues.

In his hand is a wreath for FBI agents killed in the attack on the Twin Towers. He scans the masses of photos of those who died. Among them, he spots the face of his former boss. friend and mentor, John O'Neill. Safan wells up. Anger at Al-Qaeda rises in his throat as he tries to keep his hands and the wreath he's holding steady. Overhead, the sky is a deep blue.

That afternoon, the FBI field office, New York. Sufan sits alone in the office. Almost everyone else has gone for a drink following the memorial service. Saffan. just wants isolation. The CIA's behavior has angered him, but today has reminded him of the real enemy,

the terrorists who pervert his faith, murderers who use his religion to justify their bloodlust and the need to bring them to justice. His phone rings. It's FBI headquarters in Washington, D.C. Eight al-Qaeda operatives, including two high-value detainees, have been captured in our own.

Afghanistan. The CIA wants his help with the interrogations. I thought they'd never want me again after Abu Zabeda. CIA is an organization like any other. Not everyone there thinks the same way. Some respect what you do. And with all respect, this is not a request, it's an order. You leave tonight. The next day, Afghanistan, near Kabul. A convoy of armored four by fours rumbles towards a secret detention facility outside of the city. In one of the vehicles, Sufane and his FBI colleagues are being briefed by a CIA operative named Samantha.

The first of the high-value detainees is Ramsey Ben-Ears Sheppin. He just detailed his role in planning and executing 9-11 in an interview with Al Jazeera. The second is Karin, the younger brother of Kalat. The Khaled behind the USS coal bombing? They're very same. We caught these two in a raid in Karachi, Pakistan. The goal is to extract actionable, intelligent. from both.

The convoy arrives at the secret facility. It's a dismal, isolated place. Buildings that were clearly once part of a factory are now guarded by members of the Northern Alliance, the coalition of tribes who had been helping the US fight the Taliban in Afghanistan. Samantha leads Sufane to the interrogation room. Red carpet covers the floor and walls. Interesting decor.

It's unique? I'll give it that. A male CIA officer, CIA officer enters. He points at Sufine. Langley says he's not to have any contact with the HVDs. Sufan sees Samantha roll her eyes. He pushes back. Wait a minute. The high-value detainees are the reason I'm here. The way I came all the way from New York. The CIA officer shrugs. Orders are clearly orders. You can talk to the low-value detainees if you want. Sufan knows this comes down to interagency politics. And at the

the heart of it, like his objections to the torture of Abu Zubeda. Fine, we'll take the six, but please reconsider I'm here to help. The next morning, Sophan and his FBI colleagues sit on chairs inside the red carpeted room in the CIA facility, wondering what to do next. They've finished interrogating the low-value detainees. Since then, they've been waiting, and waiting. The CIA was supposed to pick them up hours ago, but there's no sign. of them, and that's making Sufan and his colleagues nervous.

One of the colleagues gestures to the door, and maybe we should go explore. Sufane nods. Why not? Maybe there's a satellite phone somewhere. As they step outside, Sufan exchanges wary nods with some bored soldiers sat in the shade nearby. Sophan and his colleagues are under the protection of some Tajik-speaking northern alliance fighters. But loyalty are shaky in the alliance. And the longer the FBI are stuck here, the more likely it is that someone will try

to take them hostage. What's that? Nearby, a dusty 4x4 is parked. A closer look reveals it's an old Russian vehicle. There's a photo of the assassinated Northern Alliance leader Masud in the windshield, and the keys are in the ignition. The FBI team look at each other.

Sufhan voices what they're all thinking. We could take this, make our own way back to Garbo. Do we even know the way? What if we get lost? You'd rather stay here and wait to see if someone decides to take us prisoner? I don't fancy ending up in some hostage video about to be beheaded. Saffan's colleague looks at the inattentive Northern Alliance guards and sighs. Point taken, let's get out of you. They jump into the 4x4.

Sophan turns the keys in the ear. ignition. The engine stutters, then rattles into life. One of Sifan's colleagues grips his seat tightly as they start to move. Do you even know which side of the road to drive on? Do you even see any road in the first place? They drive over pitted dirt tracks, passing barren hillsides, shattered buildings, bomb craters and the skeletons of burned out Soviet tanks. And they hope they are heading in the right direction. A couple of hours later, Sufan is driving through the chaotic traffic of Kabul, and through the security gate guarding the hotel that is now the CIA's base of operations.

As they unload their equipment, one of the CIA officers he met the previous days merges from the building. He looks shocked to see them. What are you doing here? How did you get here? No one came for us. So we borrowed this Jeep, and we drove. We were planning to get you. We just got busy. Sufan grabs his bag from the back of the four by four.

Sure, well, one less item on your to-do list. The next day. The CIA field office, Kabul. Sufan is making notes when he hears knocking on the open door. He looks up to see Samantha in the doorway. Hey there, I read your reports from the detainees. There's real good information in there. Some of the best intelligence I've read in a while.

and from low-quality targets too. Can we talk? Sure. What about? We're not allowed to give you access to bin al-Shib and Karim. They want them to be interrogated by other countries. Sifarne knows she means countries willing to carry out torture. Why have other countries do the interrogation,

and we have people who can do it better and do it right? I agree with you. So you have a plan to give us access? I do. I'm ignoring instructions here. I can gain 45 minutes with each of them. If they cooperate, maybe we can stop their rendition and continue interrogating them here.

It sounds good, but only 45 minutes? It's the best I can offer. They're new to be transferred today. Sivan nods. He doubts he can make much progress in that time. But if there's even a tiny chance he can stop another al-Qaeda attack, he knows he's got to give it his all. give it is all.

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Unreal. Listen now on Audible. September 2002, the CIA detention centre near Kabul. Sufane watches as Karim is bustled into the room. The detainee is naked, but a look of defiance is etched across his face. His chin is held high. As Afghan guards, chain is. to the wall, Karim sneers at Sufahn and spits on the floor. Sufarn ignores it.

I know you're a family, and they know you're a smart man, and that you realize what's happening to you. Sufan pauses. He's got the young man's attention. I want to tell you a story. I met a person in a similar situation to you, but he chose to cooperate with me. You may think that's stupid, but he was honest. and in our Arab culture, the true man, is judged by their traits.

He proved he was worthy of being called a man. I asked him questions I knew he had answers to. He told the truth. When I asked something he did not want to talk about, he did not lie to me. He just said, I don't want to discuss that with you. Karim glares at Sufane. Why are you wasting your time with this story? Sufan ignores him.

In return, when the interrogation was done, I asked this man if there was something I could do for him. Bearing in mind, he was a prisoner of another country. He asked to kiss his mother's feet before he died. I could not help him with that, but I understood his emotions, and I said I would arrange a phone call with his mother. Sufan sees Kareem shaking. As he hoped, Kareem has realized he's talking about his older brother, who Sophan questioned in a yet. Yemeni prison while investigating the bombing of the USS Cole. Sufahn finishes his story, so I did my best.

And I made that call happen. Kareem starts to sob. Sufane puts a hand on his shoulder. I'm sorry. I know how close you and your brother were. But I wanted you to know the truth about my meeting with him in Yemen. Karim sobs into Sufan's shoulder. then tries to compose himself.

The mother said, America allowed my brother to make a phone call. She prays for you. I cannot leave it as you. It's a small world. And I'm glad I could help him. Kareem starts to open up to Sufhan. He reveals how just before his capture,

he was visited by the 9-11 mastermind, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and another of his brothers. the USS coal plotter, Khaled. He also details a new plot to attack an oil tanker off the coast of Yemen and names the main operative. He also reveals that the boat that will be used in the attack has already been purchased. But before Sufane can get more details, the Afghan guards return to take him away.

Time's up. That evening, the CIA field office, Kabul. Sufane and the FBI team are in a jubilant mood. They've reported the actionable intelligence from Kareem to FBI headquarters. Sufan is proud to demonstrate that the FBI can get vital intelligence without using torture. But just as they're wrapping up for the day, the deputy head of the CIA station barges into the office. Who the hell told FBI headquarters these guys are cooperating? We did.

Actually, we just reported the facts. There is clear, actionable intelligence here. Don't you get it? Nobody can stop these two getting rendition. That makes no sense. You don't need to send them anywhere. They are willing to talk. Sending them away would be a big mistake.

This is bigger than you. There is nothing you or the FBI can do to stop this. This comes from the White House. The FBI team look astounded as the CIA man storms off. Moments later, FBI headquarters. calls Sufhan. Ali, the decision's been made. Bin al-Shep and Karim's rendition

will proceed. The official line is they are not cooperating and what you got from them is just lies. That's not true. As I said, the decision has been made. Sufane and the team cannot believe it. They've uncovered information

about a terrorist plot that is currently in motion and the CIA is just ignoring it. A month later, October 6th, 2002. Sanda, Yemen. In his hotel room, Sufane is typing up his latest update for headquarters. He's returned to Yemen to chase down the leads on the oil tanker plot that Kareem told him about.

Despite the CIA's dismissal of the information, he still hopes he can stop the attack. His phone rings. It's Marine Colonel Scott Duke, the head of one of the multi-agency teams exploring threats in Yemen. Hello, Colonel. What can I? do for you. Switch on your TV. Saffan reaches for the remote. What's happened? They did it. An oil tanker is on fire

off the coast of Almohala. On the TV, Saffan sees images of smoke billowing from an oil tanker in the Gulf of Aden. We could have stopped this. If only they'd listen to us. Sifan switches off the TV in disgust, ends the call

and heads to the hotel room window. He looks out across the rooftops of Sanna. Despite all his interrogation successes, here he is again, feeling that too familiar churn of emotions. Those that come from knowing that this is another terrorist plot, he could have stopped. If only his government had backed him. Almost a year later, August 2003, New York City. In a large room, Sufan sits before the members of the 9-11 Commission, which is investigating the events leading up to the terror attack.

They've flown in from Washington, D.C. to quiz FBI field agents. Sufan is the first they've called in for questioning. And they're focusing on the investigation into the bombing of the USS Cole. One of the investigators leans forward. And what did you do after getting this information from Al-Qaasa, Agent Saffan? We immediately asked the CIA if they had any information about Khalad in Bangkok. They denied any knowledge of it. We later learned that the CIA knew back in January 2000

that Khalad attended a meeting with other Al-Qaeda operatives in Malaysia before travelling to Bangkok with two of the future 9-11 hijackers. They also knew one of those hijackers, Khaled al-Mindar, had a US visa and that he entered the US in March 2000. The CIA fell to share this with the FBI until August 27, 2001. One of the investigators stopped him. The CIA told us that the FBI was informed about Khalad being in Malaysia and about al-Midhar and Hamzhi being present.

That is not true. And you can look through the files to see the information was never passed along. We keep a record of everything. You can see our request to the CIA. And their response is claiming they had no information to share. Sounds like we'll want to see all the USS cold files. Sufan sits forward in his chair. This is exactly what he wanted.

Absolutely. We have lots of files. The investigator nods warming to Sufan. That's not a problem. We have lots of people to go through them. Sofan gives a grim smile. The commission's work can't undo the missed opportunities. But at least now, the CIA's withholding of information

and its subsequent cover-up will finally be exposed before the world. In 2004, the 9-11 Commission released its final report. It heavily criticized the CIA for withholding critical information from the FBI and repeated missed opportunities to act on information it had about hijackers Khalid al-Mindar and Nawaf al-Hazmi. Ali Safan left the FBI the following year. He felt that senior people in the CIA were actively undermining his career, duty as revelations to the 9-11 Commission.

Estimates suggest the CIA used so-called enhanced interrogation torture techniques on up to 100 terrorist suspects at various black sites outside the US. Abu Zabeda spent more than four years being interrogated and tortured at secret CIA detention facilities before being transferred indefinitely to the Guantanamo Bay Detention Center. A Senate Committee on Intelligence later found that despite CIA claims to the contrary, the only useful information gained from Abu Zubeda came from before he was subjected to enhanced interrogation. In 2009, U.S. President Barack Obama

banned the use of these methods, calling them a dark and painful chapter in U.S. history. Abu Zubeda remains imprisoned without trial at Guantanamo Bay. The U.S. government maintains he is too dangerous to release. The real name of Kareem, the detainee who told Sufan about the oil tanker plot is Hassan bin Atash. After Afghanistan, he is believed to have been handed over to Jordanian intelligence before being imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay.

He was released in 2025. His older brother, Valid bin Atash, aka Khaled, the Al-Qaeda operative with the missing leg, was captured in 2003. He is currently a prisoner at Guantanamo Bay. He has been charged with conspiracy in relation to the 9-11 attacks and is awaiting trial. On September 11th, 2001, Sufan's former boss, John O'Neill,

survived the initial impact of American Airlines Flight 11 into the North Tower of the World Trade Center. He made it down from his office to the lobby, where he helped children in a daycare center reach safety. He then returned to the building and was last seen heading towards a tunnel leading to the South Tower, just before it collapsed. His body was recovered from the road.

trouble 10 days later. Next time on The Spy Who, Charlie Higson talks to Tony Camerino, who is a senior military interrogator for the Special Operation Task Force in Iraq about why Rappor is the secret to getting people to talk. Follow the Spy Who on the Audible app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to all episodes of The Spy Who, ad free by joining Audible. You've been listening to The Spy Who, an audible. original. Have you got a spy story you'd like us to tell? Email your ideas to the spy who at

audible.com. A quick note about the scenes you've been hearing. In most cases, we can't know exactly what was said. Those scenes are dramatizations, but they're based on the best available sources. If you'd like to know more about this story, we recommend the black banners declassified by Ali Sufane and the Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright. The Spy Who is hosted by me, Raza Jaffrey. Produced by Audible with Yellow Ant. This episode was written by Christian Donnell and researched by Louise Byrne, with thanks to Paula Richardson.

The senior producer was Jay Priest. The sound designer was Joshua Morales. For Yellow Ant, the story editor and executive producer was Tristan Donovan. For Audible, the executive producers were Estelle Doyle and Theodora Lilludis, head of production, Audible Europe, Chris Jones. Senior Director of Originals Lisa Higginson

Head of Audible Originals International Ovaly de Troil Sound recording, copyright 2026 by Audible Limited You stepped out for your morning jog Except it's not your usual morning jog You started listening to an epic sci-fi book on Audible 30 chapters later

You've accidentally run a half marathon You lost track of how far you've run Somewhere just past the city limits You can't stop You have to find out what happens next Then it's over. The universe seems bigger. You feel different.

You feel like you have no idea where you are. Audible. Stories that speak to you.