The Squeeze - Anna Cathcart: The Habit Of Anxiety

Episode Date: January 15, 2025

In this week’s episode, the Lautners are joined by actress Anna Cathcart! For the first time, Anna opens up about her personal journey with anxiety—from childhood struggles with separation anxiety and a phobia of throwing up to the tools and therapy that continue to help her today. She also shares what it’s been like balancing college life alongside her acting career, how her professors and classmates have responded, and how she’s learned to let happiness and anxiety coexist. Anna reflects on the unique challenges of transitioning from child star to professional actress and how her time on XO, Kitty has shaped her both personally and professionally. Plus, she gives an exciting sneak peek into what fans can expect in Season 2 of XO, Kitty!Be sure to follow Anna https://instagram.com/annacathcart/!Watch Season 2 of XO, Kitty on Netflix starting Thursday, January 16th: https://www.netflix.com/title/81324724To email us your questions or share your story, you can reach out to [e-mail] sure to rate, review, and follow the podcast so you don't miss an episode! Plus, follow us on Instagram:The Squeeze:  https://instagram.com/thesqueeze/Tay Lautner: https://instagram.com/taylautner/Taylor Lautner: https://instagram.com/taylorlautner/& TikTok:  https://tiktok.com/@thesqueezepodcastTo learn more from The Lemons Foundation, follow  https://instagram.com/lemonsbytay/ and visit lemonsbytay.comEpisode Sponsors:Go to Cymbiotika.com/SQUEEZE for 20% off your order + free shipping todayHead to ThriveMarket.com/squeeze to get 30% off your first order, plus a FREE $60 gift!Discover Drunk Elephant’s C-Luma Hydrabright Serum at Ulta Beauty stores and online at ulta.comVisit www.birdygrey.com now to get your first 6-swatches for free - available for a limited time only.Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney.com/squeeze today.Ritual's Essential for Women 18+ is a multivitamin you can actually trust. Get 25% off your first month at ritual.com/THESQUEEZE. Start Ritual or add Essential for Women 18+ to your subscription today.Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Dear Media Production This is something I actually so excited to talk about it because I've never talked about it publicly. Has it kind of just been this underlying feeling that you've always had? So when I was nine, really weirdly gained this like really intense debilitating fear, incredibly irrational and incredibly debilitating at its peak. You can't really place it in your mind.

Like, why am I going through this like weird thing that I can't explain to my friends? Because I just look crazy. My sister always joke. She's like, you need a level two therapist. Like you've leveled up. If you've been able to find a balance. between anxiety and happiness. Just because, yeah, I'm not 100% where I want to be.

That doesn't make the good feelings any less good. Yeah, like, oh, I'm in Disneyland with my family and this is fun, but like, you're not actually having a good time. Like, I'm still having a good time. What would you say is the most misunderstood thing about you? Whoa. Whoa. When life gives you lemons, what do you do with them?

Over here at the squeeze, we talk about it. And welcome to the squeeze. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Of course. We're honored to have you. Yes, we're very excited. But we start each episode off this jar. It's a game called Citrus Got Real. If you want to pull a little piece of paper out of there. So cute. And see what she has to say. Drum roll. Headphones, I can't hear my drum roll anymore.

Sorry. If you had to pick one person to live with the rest of your life, who would it be? Ooh. Easy, my big sister. Like, for sure. I mean, we already, like, already lived, well, we don't live together right now, but, I mean, we obviously grew up together. And then we, our first time moving out, we live together. And we always are sad. Like, what if we don't live in the same city one day? Like, what if we're not together? So definitely, definitely her. She's like best friend in the world. Be easy, easy answer. What's your age difference? We're five years apart. She's five years older. But weirdly, we get asked all the time who's older, even though I think it is so clear and so obvious that she's older. But, yeah, I'm very, very lucky. We've Like never, we've like never fought, never had any issues. Even when I was born, I think because of the five years, like, when I first came to the world, she was already like, I'm going to take care of you and you're like my like little like, like, I love you already. There was like no competition. It just worked. But yeah, it's the best. I have a six year gap with my younger sister and it's just the two of us. And for the most part, like same thing. We, we, everybody asked like if we fought and I'm like not really. I think like that amount of age gap gets rid of like most of the whatever. happens during fun teenage years. Because her friends thought I was like the cute little sister.

My friend saw she was like the cool older sister. Like there was no like, we were clearly different stages. Yeah. And now it's like balanced out more the older we get that like we all have the same friends and stuff. And this is who you throw the cookie party with? Yes. This is who I do like most things. She was literally just in LA with me as well.

I was like I need you here for press week. I need you here like for everything like such. She all the time, just like I'm basically like the emotional support dog. Like people will be like, oh like what do you do on Anna's team? because she'll often be around. And she's like, I'm just, I'm the support. She does so much, though. But, yeah.

So sweet. I love that. I don't have a sibling, so I don't know what that feels like. I would probably choose you. No, that's awkward because I would choose Remy. Are you? Thank you. I support it.

I mean, I mean, if you, yeah. Of course I would choose you. If not me, then who? Remy. Okay, a human. Um, oh, frick. Oh, man. That's a really tough.

I guess I said human and I don't even have a human answer. So maybe we'll go back with the dog. You don't have a human answer. It's not me. Like other than you. Yeah. That's tough. I know. If we couldn't choose each other, and I couldn't choose our dogs. I always say if I didn't marry you, I would marry Nell. Okay. This is a girlfriend of ours. One of my best. One of my close friends. This is just so. So that's who you would want to? I probably live with Nell. Yeah. Okay. Love you now. Okay. I don't know. I feel like you would also choose now.

She's just easy. I mean, yeah, she is very easy. That's so good to have a family. I can't choose. I don't want to offend any of our friends. We have such a wonderful group. I would choose all of you. You pick Jordan.

Potentially. Our friend is a really good cook. Oh, he could just cook for me. Yeah. That's huge. Yeah, it is huge. Yeah, okay. Yours is Jordan.

Okay, moving on from that. I'm curious because something you're doing is something I did not. And that is you're in college, right? Yes. Okay. Yes. How is that going? And is that like something you always, like, were set to do?

Like, it didn't matter what, in the career-wise, you're going to go to college? Kind of. I, like, dreamed of going, always growing up. Like, my parents both went to the same school. They both went to UBC. And then my sister went to UBC and, like, we were just like a very UBC family. and I was like, I'm going to go, it's going to be my turn one day, and I'm going to go to UBC. And, like, that has always been the dream since I was like five.

So I think being at her was never expected. And then once it happened, I was like, no, I like, we'll never get over it if I don't get to have that, like, chapter as well on that path. But I don't need to, like, I'm not necessarily in a super big rush to get a degree. Like, I hope to act forever or, like, at least work in film and TV in some capacity that, like, that's not even what I'm going to school for. Like, I study sociology and creative writing. So, like, it's not even. Of course, there's things that help it. It's not to do with this job.

So it's more just for the experience as well as, like, being an actor, I feel like you're not really in, like, normal typical environments growing up all the time. And I, like, really wanted to have, like, normal life. Like, I, like, really wanted to be in, like, spaces where people around me are my age, we're all learning to be adults. We're all growing up. We're all figuring out the same things. And, like, it's been so, so beneficial for so many reasons. Right now I'm actually, like, taking a little break. I'm not going to classes next semester.

and I've been doing like on and off because of work since I started and I took like a gap year, I guess, after high school to shoot season one of Exo Kitty. Yeah. But I don't know when I'm going to be back next. But like the reason to go is mainly like to learn how to be an adult and like to grow and have that space. And I like love going to class. I love learning in that type of environment too. It's like not as I don't know, high school is so, so, so different that I just like wanted the college like era. And I'm very grateful that I got the chance to like explore it because it's been the best.

That's cool. Has it not been challenging? Like, you know, because I was still in high school when the first Twilight came out. And that's when I realized that I couldn't do school anymore because I would be in science class. And like kids would be like literally recording me with their phone. That's crazy. Totally. Like, do you experience that? And is it okay? Yeah. It's definitely weird. Like I think high school, I've worked throughout like since grade seven, like very consistently. And I like went to record public. school that whole time. So, like, that was, like, I kind of learned those challenges, and that was one thing. But going to, like, a huge college is so different because, like, you're going to see new people every single day. It's not like they, like, get used to it. It's like, you're going to keep running into new people. And it is weird at times. Like, I do get recognized at school pretty often. And, like, it sometimes is tough because it's like, oh, like, great, we just took a picture, but, like, we're in a group project. And now I'm, like, need to give you

my chronic information and you're going to peer review my essay. But, like, you're, you just, like, wanted me to be on your story. I'm like, that's also like a weird thing. But I've been pretty lucky that it's worked out. And I found a really good community at school in my first year. And that was like a more chill time for me. Because like the movies, like, The Twel Boys movie had come out a while ago. Exo Kitty hadn't come out yet. I think people kind of like, I wasn't in the public eye too much. So I met a lot of really great people. And I'm part of like a club that plans events on campus. And like, they're my like whole world. Like that group people's the best. So to have a safe space is huge. And then coming back after the show came out, I kind of had to relearn that a little bit for sure of like how to handle that and how to navigate it.

But yeah, I don't know. It's, I've been very lucky. It's like still worth it. But I'm not going to lie. There's times for sure. I'll go home and like, lose my mind a little bit. So I'm like, it's a weird, weird situation. Yeah.

I never thought about the college thing, like being more people. And like you, like in high school, you know, I'd done like stuff before. So, like, in high school, I was just known as Shark Boy. And, but the people got used to it. Right. You see the same people every day. Yeah, it was, like, yeah, it was, like, annoying at first. But then eventually, it's just Shark Boy.

Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, college, it's like, yeah, there's so many more people. Yeah, it's definitely different. That is interesting. Yeah. It's a cool outlook, too, that you, like, want to experience, like, quote-unquote normal things because, like, there's things that Taylor

didn't do that I did because I grew very normal. My first like intro into the industry was when we first started dating. But like I'll talk about things I did in high school. He's like, you did that? And I'm like, yeah, that's normal. Or like talk about like things in college. And it's funny that, you know, there is like a decent amount of stuff that Taylor just like didn't do that I did. Totally. So it's interesting. Yeah. There's definitely been some things you've like told me about. And I've been like, people do that. And you're like, yes. I know. I always wondered like once we have kids and they're like want to go out, like, with friends in high school or whatever, Taylor's going to be like, no, you're not doing that.

Then I'm like, yeah, it's fine. Like, I did that. Yeah. You're literally going to have a panic attack. Yeah. Walk our children in the house. Oh, boy. That'll be the day.

Okay. I'm excited to dive into this mental health talk because you shared with us that anxiety for you has kind of been like this lifelong journey that you've dealt with. And I'm curious because people kind of. experience it both ways, was there a moment for you where you were like, oh, this is the first time I'm feeling anxiety? Or has it kind of just been this underlying feeling that you've always had? And then later on in life figured out that that was what it was. I definitely think it like now, I feel like it's always been there. Like I always make the joke of

like, oh, like, when was the last time I felt calm like in 2008? Like I don't. Yeah, I was probably four. Like, yeah, it just feels so ingrained of like, I just live. in the state of high stress and it just feels like a habit now. Like I'm like, it's just like how I'm used to existing. But I would say like looking back when I was six is like when it really started getting impeding your daily life like a lot. I had really bad separation anxiety at that age and that like, I don't know, somehow kindergarten, I was chilling and I loved it.

And then like once grade one happened, I like cried every single day going to school. And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know why that switch happened. And then anxiety just like keeps showing up in my life in different ways. Like it manifests itself in like very specific kind of like stages throughout that if I look back now, I'm like, oh, in those three years, like this is how it felt. And in those few years, like it turned into this weird thing or like then I had a new challenge and like it's just always kind of been there but looked very different at different times, which in some ways is comforting. Because I'm like in the moment when you

feel like this is like so impossible to get over, I realize that I have. Like, for example, with separation anxiety, that was like huge. Like for me and my mom. I like had, I mean, it's normal for like a little kid. You're like, oh, like crying when their mom leaves them when you're like four, when you're five, but not when you're 11. It's like, that's like, oh, this is something that's going on that's like not typical to be like not able to go to soccer practice in grade seven. Like that's like different. So I was dealing with that and then like it felt like I was never going to get out of it. And then I went to therapy and like a really long journey with that.

But like got out of that eventually. And I was like, cool. I went past it. But now I'm dealing with this brand new thing with anxiety that, like, is proven. It's just going to keep showing up, which I think in some ways feels like never ending. But in other ways, it's hopeful that you can get through those stages and, like, you'll get better at dealing with the things that feel impossible. Yeah.

So I don't know. It's a strange, like, a relationship that I have with anxiety. But, yeah, I think now I'm probably more aware of it than I ever have been. Yeah. Yeah. Thank. How did, how did, so you said to, like, age 11, the separation? anxiety? How did, like, was it just therapy that kind of helped you through that? Yeah, I'm like, I don't know. Sometimes I look back at it too, I'm like, when did you like snap out of it? Like, I think, so separations I started when I was really, really little. And then when I was nine, this is something like, I actually so excited to talk about it because I've never talked about it publicly. And like when I was thinking about doing this podcast, I was like, I think I should do this more often. Like, I actually open up about these things. Because I know if I was at that stage and heard someone else talk about the specifics of what they're dealing with. And

it would have been like world changing for me. So when I was nine, really weirdly, I gained this like really intense debilitating fear around throwing up, which is like really specific and a really specific type of anxiety that like it's really difficult to explain to people because it almost shows up as a phobia where it's like, yeah. And no one likes throwing up. It's like not a pleasant thing for anybody. But I'm like, it was like incredibly irrational and incredibly debilitating at its peak. where like I wouldn't be able to do certain things.

I would carry a throw-up bag with me everywhere I go in case something happened. Not that it ever did, but like there was so much fear and so much like it was just a really, really interesting time. And like looking back now, I feel like I can realize how like abnormal, I guess it was. Because when you're in it, you're like, everyone has fears and like, yeah, this is scary. And like I get more stress than this than typical. We're like, no, like I had a phobia. I had like a clinical anxiety around this topic.

So that happened at nine and it was triggered by me throwing up on a bus. in Paris really randomly. And that also really scared me to be like, well, things can happen in your life that are, like, you don't realize it at the time, but will, like, change the trajectory of your mental health and, like, really, really impact you up until your adult life is like so crazy. So I would say that anxiety, honestly,

was probably more prominent than the separation anxiety, but there was the combination of the two, which was really rough. And then many, many years, I dealt with this, like, phobia and this fear. And, like, it got to the point where, like, I wouldn't wear certain clothes because they didn't have pockets and I couldn't put a throw-up bag in there, or I would hide it in, like, I used to play field hockey, and I would, like, hide it in my high sock and, like, things that I was like, then, of course, you, like, as a kid, you feel so, like, shameful about this. And, like, you can't really place it in your mind.

I'm like, why am I going through this, like, weird thing that I can't explain to my friends? Because I just look crazy. And, like, this is not like, oh, she's stressed and, like, anxious about regular things. I'm like, no, I have, like, this, this, like, weird thing going on that I can't even explain to you. Like, that was really tough. And then now, like, I'm so grateful. I've gotten through. Like, I'm past that stage and is still with me in little ways, but like, we are worlds apart from where we were growing up. But that was like a really roundabout answer to.

I don't even remember what your original question was, but that was like backstory. Curious. Like, did your parents know about that thing? Yeah. They did know about it. And they were like, I'm so grateful for them for being like as supportive as they could be. But of course, like, I think when you're dealing with mental health issues, it's going to affect the people that you love and not always in the best.

ways because it makes everybody's life difficult at moments when you're dealing with stuff. So it was really hard for our whole family. But they were as supportive as they possibly could be. And then I started seeing a therapist. And I think it's so interesting to me now that looking back, I remember being so scared of the thought of seeing a therapist. And so, like, don't you dare tell my friends' moms. Don't tell my friends. Like, I have to lie and tell them I'm going to the dentist. Like, I don't, I'm not. And I'm like, how was nine? Like, how did I know that was something to be ashamed of? I was like, I can't believe, like, at that point in my life, I was already, like, so socialized to know this is something that you should feel bad about about is so crazy to me. And I was like, at nine years old, I was like, in tears being like, mom, you like, don't bring me to a therapist.

And I was like, how did that, like, how did that happen? Like, how did I think that? But it was incredibly beneficial and helped me a lot, a lot for sure. And then shortly after, like, when I was going to therapy, like, right after that I started acting. And I was doing a lot better with this specific fear and with this type of thing. anxiety and then it kind of came back while I was working on my first show, which was really interesting to deal with. And then eventually, like, when I got to high school and stuff, this kind of stage passed. And luckily I'm, like, in a good place with it now. But

now anxiety just shows up in different ways. But that's kind of like where the root of it was. And it's like one of the most vulnerable because it's so difficult to explain. And it's so specific. And it's like not the normal like, oh, social anxiety or like whatever, something that's more common. And it's like, no, it's like really like weird. And I don't even know why that happened and whatever. But yeah, I think if I had heard someone else had this specific type of fear, I'd be like, I'm not crazy. This means a lot. So it's cool to talk about.

Yeah. No, it is crazy how, you know, our early childhood, you know, things that happened to us can impact us in ways like that maybe, you know, don't make sense. Like you were like, I don't know why, you know, this has developed into what it was. was. Okay, lemon drops. So it is the new year and the hype that is going on right now, as always, at the beginning of the year, is a new year's resolution, a goal, a thought, feeling, something that you want to bring into this new year. And one of my goals for this new year, it's actually a smaller goal, but really something that I want to try to implement into my daily routine. And that's just prioritizing self-care. And doing that. And doing that.

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body? What is fear? Like, anxiety is a real thing and you might not have even known it. And, like, I felt nauseous a lot of the time throughout that stage. Like, I just, like, felt sick pretty much every day and, like, learning, like, oh, that's not, like, that can come from my mind. And, like, that's connected to everything going on and, like, working through things in a very, like, let's lay it out because it was, like, a kid's counselor and she was amazing, like, shout out to her. But I think it had like eventually like, oh, this is just a routine. This is something that I just have to do. And like almost treat it like a doctor's appointment. And I think I often now even in my adult life will like make comparisons to physical health when you're dealing with mental health just because it makes it like it reframes it of like imagine if like you broke your ankle and you had to go to physio like you wouldn't feel bad about it. And like if you had a harder time going on a run because you had a broken ankle and the person beside you didn't have a broken ankle, you wouldn't blame yourself for it versus like you deal with mental health struggles. The person beside you is not dealing with. with and you're both having to like go to school or do the same thing. It's not your fault that this is harder for you. And like, you can get that support the way that you would put on a cast

and not be like, I don't need to cast my ankle. Like that's my fault. Like that I think I tried to do that as well. Like this is kind of like going to doctor. Like this is something that I'm not doing grade in and I need to heal. So let's go heal it. And I think having that framework helped for sure. And then like, I don't know, after I stopped doing that, I had taken a break from therapy. And then I started going again in high school. When I like started showing up again and anxiety was like, looked very different, but still felt not great, obviously. And I've struggled with like going to therapy in my adult life because I think I've turned into a very like reflective person. And I'm lucky to have people in my life that I can talk to about a lot of these issues and about the things that I'm

going through and like, I journal a lot. I think way too much. I like reflect way too much. I'm very self-aware, which is great, but a lot of therapy sometimes provides that for people who maybe don't do that in their everyday life. And my sister always showed, she's like, you need a level two therapist. Like, you've leveled up. And like to have like that next type of support that shows to be beneficial, like I'm still looking for. That's like an ongoing journey. But definitely was the most beneficial as a kid. Yeah. I love what you said about the broken bone analogy, because that's literally like what we preach on this podcast is like you wouldn't just break your arm and then like never go like get a cast or like get it fixed. Totally. Go do something about it.

And like go see the doctor. Go take the medication. Go do whatever it is. Exactly. But I also relate a lot to what you said of how like your like feelings of like nausea can be like, you know, not because you are nausea. It can be like from your brain. That is something that I struggle with. I've gotten better since I've like really like understood. But my anxiety is in my gut. I've always had stomach issues. I was born lactose intolerant. So like I've always had, I've been a tummy girl. But as like, you know, into my 20s, it's definitely gotten more worse. And I have this thing where I'll go and get my nails done. And every single time I go, I feel like I'm going to throw up. And sometimes I've literally like jumped out of the pedicure chair to like go to the bathroom.

But I know I'm not going to throw up. But I like get like an anxiety attack almost every time I go. And just so weird because you like, getting your nails done is like something you love too. But you, it's so strange. And I'm stubborn. And I'm like, I'm going to keep going. to do this because I know that there is nothing harming me. So like, I'm going to get over this eventually and I'm literally just going to keep going and it's been two years. But I will say,

last time I went, I came home and I didn't get nauseous once. And that was like a breakthrough moment for me. And I have no clue why. No clue why. I was going to ask if anything was different. No, I don't. I don't know what. I mean, it was a different salon. Well, I've been going to this one. It's the first time I got my toes done. Sometimes when I get my toes done, I feel like trapped. I think because I, this is what I'm assuming, I, like, developed a weird thing of claustrophobia because I worked as a nurse during COVID and we had, like, all the BP and stuff. Yeah. So I think, like, it makes me feel like I need to be able to run. Yeah, if you have to go somewhere, you can't.

Yeah. But I've been doing little things, like, I figured out, like, when they put the water in, I have them put it, like, freezing cold. And instead of hot because that, like, brings your heart rate up. and that could like mimic an anxiety attack and get your nerves going. So when it's cold, it doesn't do that. It's like ground in a lot. Yeah. Is that enjoyable?

I mean, it's not the best, but I feel I would, I would, you'd rather have that. Absolutely. Jump out of the chair or run at the bathroom. I so get that.

It's so fun. It is interesting learning, learning that because sometimes I'll be like, okay. Okay, like, you know, am I actually nauseous right now? Like, am I going to throw up? Or am I, like, just anxious and there's like, something going on. Totally. So it's really, it's really interesting once you like kind of learn that.

Yeah. I also, something you said that I found interesting was like how a kid looks at therapy is like they, you know, you probably had that mentality that like something's wrong because, you know, as a kid, you think something's wrong with me. Like in that moment, you're like, you're like, you're, you don't know how to, you know, talk about it and think about it. You just think something's wrong with me. And it's so crazy because it's the same thing with adults in therapy. It's like they have the same mentality. You know, we all do as a nine-year-old kid is even as adults, we think something's wrong with me. That's why I have to go to therapy rather than just shifting that thought process to be like, you know, you can be going to therapy proactively. Like, totally. You can go to therapy.

on your best days. Like something doesn't have to be wrong with you to be going to therapy, but it's just crazy how like a nine-year-old's view of it and like adults can be the exact same. Yeah. Totally. Something I was curious about was if you've been able to find a balance between anxiety and happiness and if those two can coexist or not. Yeah. I really struggled with this concept of like, the gray area between like, back, back to the analogy with the broken ankle. Yeah.

I would often come to like this feeling. Oh, I had a really good deal. Like, this is really fun, but like my ankle's still broken. It's still broken. So like, you know how fun this day would have been if my ankle wasn't broken? And you're like, well, like that, just because it's broken, yeah, that sucks. And during that time, of course, you should be healing it. You should be working on it.

And like some days you're allowed to just like scream and cry that your ankle's broken and other people's aren't and you wish you wish you had like a fully. healed body for sure. But the fun you just had, that doesn't go away. Like that isn't, that's not invalidated by the fact that your ankle was still in the cast. Like you, that fun was still real. That fun was still valuable. Those feelings still existed in your body and in your brain. And like coming to that realization that just because, yeah, I'm not a hundred percent where I want to be, that doesn't make the good feelings any less good and any less real. And like, I really tried to work on that, especially since high school because I would find myself getting in that cycle of

like, yeah, like, oh, I'm in Disneyland with my family and this is fun, but like, guys, like, I'm still having anxiety. Like, I'm still a mess inside. So, like, yeah, I'm having a good time and like almost trick myself to be like, you're not actually having a good time. Like, because you're still have so much to work on and like, because there's so many things going on in your brain that you don't love, this can't be like real. And that's just like not true. Like both can totally coexist. And you would be able to see that with physical health. Again, like, someone who was in a process of healing and like they have a broken bone, you're not like, oh, well, they just went to a birthday party and had a good time, but, like, their bones broken, so it's, they didn't actually have a good time.

It's like, you see that that's irrational and it doesn't, like, those two things don't go together. But when it's, like, in your head, it feels like it can override it sometimes of, like, if you have a cloud over top of it, it's like, doesn't matter what's going on beneath it. The clouds on top. And, like, to get out of that mindset is so difficult. And I still struggle with that for sure. But I've, like, come a really far away since high school. I think that was, like, really prominent in, like,

grade 12. But they definitely can coexist and this balance of like you can you can still heal and you can still like be working on that and be going to physio but have a really good time even when your body's yeah like the happiness isn't not real just because of that. Yeah. Yeah. The bad doesn't have to take away from the good. Totally. How have you kind of been able to get yourself out of that mindset? Is there something that you've seen that's helped that you would maybe like give someone like advice on getting out of that. Yeah. I think like I know, I think trying to rationalize with anxiety sometimes it's hard because it's like that is what it is. It feeds off of irrationality. Like that's that's literally like what it loves. So it's really hard

to be like, oh like let's be logical here. It's like if we could be logical and we go away, we'd be fine from day one. Like that's not what this is. So it is really hard. But I think seeing those frameworks like do help of comparing it to like someone. else is going through this, you would be able to see, see it in such a different way than when it's your own brain. And like, I love trying to do that and, like, imagine what you're going through, but on someone that you love. And, like, how would you support them? And how would, like, I think sometimes it's way more instinctual of, like, what you would maybe say to the person that you love most if they were trying to tell you this was their issues or, like, just flipping it to kind of come out of your

own context and your own body because it can feel so much bigger when it's you. And, yeah, understanding that like what did you feel in that moment that was good, that is never going to go away. Even if you like had a great time at the party and you went home and then you had a really rough night because of like your own struggles, that still happened. The party still happened. It was still good. That good is like you felt it. You had it in your body. You had it in your mind. And no matter what, no one's going to take that away. Like I think seeing those as independent things and like understanding they can all just coexist is like comforting. And I'll remind myself that often. But some days it's obviously easier than others to tap into that.

Yeah, we had an expert on once and he was kind of like the stress doctor and like talking about like, you know, how it manifests and just basically like everything that it has to do with. And the biggest thing that he that I took away from talking with him is like there is a healthy level of stress and anxiety. Like that level does exist and like society we've felt so much of like how to get rid of stress and how to get rid of anxiety. But reminding myself like actually there is a healthy level. level here. Like, they're having a little bit of stress. Like, you know, I get my work done. I, you know, it gives you like kind of the nudge to get your crap done. For sure. And sometimes when I am feeling like stress, like, when I get into like these really serious work modes, I just like get like tense. And I just like take a moment and like breathe. I'm like, no, like healthy, we're going to

say at a healthy level today. Like this is what like this feeling is okay. We're going to maybe tone it down a little bit. Shake the hands out. But knowing. and reminding myself that this is actually okay. Like, I do have a lot of my plate, but I can handle this. Yeah. It's a good thing. For sure. It's been helpful. Yeah. Throughout your whole mental health journey, what have been the biggest, like, tools or resources that you've learned that have helped you? I'm very lucky to have people in my life to talk to. And, like, I'm a talker. We'll talk about everything all the time. And I also, like, love sharing. And I'm, like, pretty comfortable with it. Sometimes to the point where I'll, like, be worried that I, like,

share too much or that. Like, I'm like, other people, like, aren't as, like, open with, like, their vulnerabilities. And I'm like, is this too much for me to be like this? But I'm so lucky to have those people. And, like, I know that's really helpful for me to just get it out. Journaling has been huge. And I think that's, like, a lovely way to kind of do the same thing without the stress of, like, am I bothering this person? Or is that, like, going to be, like, impacting them because they have, obviously everyone has their own stuff they're going through. So it's like sometimes you can't always pour that onto other people and like finding that balance. Journaling's like, it's just for you.

It's there. It's always going to be there. You don't have to read it back ever again. It can be like whatever you want it to look like. So I have like a million completed journals and I love doing that. And I think taking the pressure away of like what like I used to have to write context I felt like in my journal. Like let me like lay like this is the lay of the land. This is that person like I'm like who?

Who am I trying to give you? Like I'm trying to set the scene for who. This is for me. And like my mind. And I know. Like, I'll just like, if I am referring to someone just by like, oh, like, she said this, it's like, that's okay that they don't know who she is. Right.

So I don't want anyone to read this. I hope no one's reading this. Like, I have no one reads this ever. So like, I don't need to do that. And that helped a lot to just like literally write anything that is going to be helpful and, like, draw a lot or just like express yourself. And that way I find really beneficial. And like, I think I'm just wired in that, like, direction.

So I love, love journaling. Yeah. And like, realizing that everyone is a mess in their own. way. And like it's so it's so empowering to talk about it and empowering to like own it a little bit. I think that's been really helpful. But I will say this kind of like come into a different conversation. But like right now I've come to this realization that like I've I've owned it almost a little too much where I've almost like accepted like I'm just always going to be anxious. And like there's a level of that that is empowering. There's a level of that to be like,

I know who I am. I know I've still lived a really awesome fruitful life. with anxiety for like all these years, but don't accept it to the point where you don't think it can ever change. Like I think there's like something dangerous with that too. Like, oh, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm anxiety girl. Like that's just who I am. And I'm like, well, like, no, it doesn't have. It doesn't have to be like, let's remember I can still get better.

I can still like improve. And it's possible to heal because I think I've, I've gone too far about accepting and like owning my struggles that I think sometimes I slip into this point of like, well, that's just who I am. Like, it's never going to change. I'm like, I'm so used to it now and I'm so. find to tell my friends and tell people about it that like, I think I need to, just, I don't know, find that balance of not accepting it too far where I've also accepted it won't change because

it can't. Is that what you met earlier when you said, uh, that it can become a habit? Yeah, I think this, like really changed my perspective and I thought this was fascinating that like I, like, like any habit, if you, if you've done this every day for 20 years, why would tomorrow you like, don't do that thing? that if I've gotten so used to living in an anxious state and like I can still be successful I can still do well at school I can still do a good job at my work while being anxious like why would my body all of a sudden

wake up tomorrow and not be I think that would almost like freak myself out like to not feel this stress would be like this is not who you are this is not what you know that yeah it's come so far that I'm like it is a habit I'm like used to it and I identify it with so

like identify with things so much that something I've tried to tell myself is like anxiety is a feeling that I feel more often than other people, but it's not who I am and that's not me. It's something that I feel and something that can come into my body, but we are not, we are not the same thing. Like it's not one and it's not a part of me. It's just a feeling. And that's like really helpful and really comforting to be like, yeah, it's just something that I go through. Other people feel it too, just less. And it shows up differently, but it's not me. And like, that's kind of been a way for me to frame it as that. Because I think, yeah, it gets to this point where you like, you get too caught up and like,

this will just be forever. Yeah. And that's kind of a barrier as well for yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I always say like it, obviously like, don't let it define you. So cheesy. But like, truly, like, it's not, it's not the label. I always say it's like, it's just a part of me. Like, I'm like, you know, I'm a wife. I'm a dog mom. I'm a podcast host. I have. have exactly. Like, it's just like one of the things that that make up me. It's not the sole thing that is defining me. So like not letting it have that power over you and like not making it, you know, habit, so to say. Yeah. By doing that. Okay, ladies, engagement season is officially here, which means wedding season will also be here before we know it. And Bertie Gray is about to be

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that most people don't really go through. No, for sure. I think like, I don't know, I think work stress and like the way anxiety is kind of showing up in my life right now is, is like the feeling of stress. And sometimes stress anxiety, like people think they're synonymous, but I think they're quite different things. But in this current stage, it's like just high stress all the time, even when it doesn't have a reason. Like it's not like, oh, I'm stressed because I have an exam tomorrow. It's like I feel like I would if I had an exam tomorrow, but I don't have an exam and the feeling's still there that like that is, been going on a lot recently. And like, if I try and think about it, it was when this show, like, started. And like, this stage of my life of entering my career from a different aspect has brought a lot of different stresses. And it was weird to have the transition. And I'm sure, like, you also went through this. Like, it was a hobby as a kid. And it was just saying that, like, I can't believe I get to do this. And like, this is my dream. And this is like the coolest thing

ever. I just love it so much. I like, I was like, I got to be Hannah Montana. Like, this is like, who I dreamed of being. To now I'm like, oh, this is my job. Like, this is, actually a job and this is a career and like you're gonna have, not everyone's gonna want to do their job every single day and doesn't mean that they should quit they don't like their career path. It's just like, it's job, it's gonna be hard, like work is hard. That with this show specifically,

this is the first time I worked as an adult. Season one was like, as brand, like I was 18, never been on set without a parent, never had 16, 17 hour work days. I was used to like 10 hours with a hard cut off and like school time and lunch I'm having to be exactly this amount of minutes and I was like, welcome to the real world like you're, but I was only 18.

but it's like you're a real, real actor now. And, like, I was a lead. And I was on a show that was, like, not a kid's show. And there was pressure that, like, things were told to me that would not have been told to me as a kid or, like, dealing with challenges that I just never faced as, like, a child. And I was really lucky to have a really positive child actor experience. Yeah. So this was like, whoa, I'm, I don't know what it means to be an actor.

I don't know what it means to do this. Like, I'm re-learning this, even though I've been here for a while. So that was, like, really steep learning curve. And season one was really challenging for a lot. of reasons, but, like, I think one of the hardest parts was, like, after and now just being this age of my career to realize that, like, it is a, it is a job. And I think that was kind of, like, I couldn't see that for a long time. Like, I would tell myself, like, this is supposed to be fun. Like, why are you not having fun? And this was, this is supposed to be fun as, like, a sentence was so,

like, damaging because it would create so much guilt all the time of, like, why are you so stressed out? You're living the dream. You know how many people would want to be here? You know how lucky you are to be here, like invalidating myself and invalidating my stress very often. And I struggle with that a lot now that, like, I always fear that I'm, like, I want to know how, how group, like, lucky I am, like, people would die to do this. And, like, I've been so lucky that, I don't know, that balance between being humble and gracious, but also, like, you're allowed to be stressed out. This is really tough. And this is hard. And, like, I used to be so upset when I was wrapped. I used to want as many work as possible. I was like, what do you mean? Like, I don't want to go

home and make this fitting like four times as long. Like I just loved it so much because I just never thought I could even do it. Like I was like, I get to be an actor. Like this is insane. That now I'm like, the first time I realized I was like, I just want to like, I want to go home or like I hope I get off day this week. Or like, I was like, wait, this is so sad. Like I had this like, no, like you're not allowed to think that. Like what's happening? I'm like, you're becoming adult. That's what's happening. And like you're, this is becoming your job, not your hobby. And that's a really weird thing when something goes from like your extracurricular to like your job. That I don't know. I'm still in that, but, like, this show really brought that crazy transition of, like, child to adult

career. Especially, like, being, like, the lead when you're 18 and, like, it, like, that would already be a big workload as a child, but, like, getting that, like, right off the bat as a... That whole thing is so fascinating because I've never thought about it like that. I wanted to ask you your thoughts on that. Yeah. No, it's fascinating because, um, it's fascinating because, um, Yeah, like when you look, somebody who's a doctor or a pilot, they weren't a doctor or a pilot. As a child, exactly. So it's so strange, yeah, because, yeah, when I was a kid, I would cry my eyes out when I was wrapped. Like it was just this saddest thing in the world.

And it's, yeah, making that transition from this being a cool thing you get to do as a kid. to, yeah, well, I got to, you know, wake up every morning at 5 a.m. and do a 16-hour day. And pilots didn't have to do that when they were five. Yeah. And I think there's like not this guilt attached to like work stress in other industries as much because like no, I think a lot of the time I was told like you're living the dream. And I'm like, why doesn't it feel like I'm living the dream? Like, why am I so stressed about this? I'm supposed to be living the dream right now versus like my friends who are studying marketing and they have an internship in the summer. Yeah, that's their dream. They got it. But if they're complaining or they're stressed to wake up tomorrow to go to their internship, it's like so understandable. That makes sense. That's like, wow, you seem ungrateful. You're not you're not having the best time of life. Like, you're wearing a pretty dress and you get to go on a red carpet. Like, well, big whoop that you're stressed about your job. Like, I wish I could do that. And I'm like, you're right. Like, maybe I shouldn't be. Like, why am I? Just you should give this to someone else and it's not deserving because this is like the coolest thing ever. And I should always be having the time of my life. And like, that was so negative and like realizing that recently. I've

being like, I think also starting as a kid, you're always asked like, are you having fun? Are you having, like, if it's not fun, it's not worth it. Like, what's the point if you're not having a good time? And I'm like, yeah, at 12, true. Why would I do this? it wasn't fun. I'm not, I don't, this is not my job. I don't need to pay bills. Like, I'm not doing this. Go play soccer. Yeah, go back to class. I go to school. Go live your life. That, like, that was the mentality for the first, like, eight years of my career was always, like, are you having fun and, like, you look like you're living in the dream? Like, every kid wishes they were you, that type of thing, like, in my, like, hometown type of, like, energy that I always

took that with me. And then now to not feel that, I'm like, that's not fair. My friends who are, like, working in finance do not feel like they're living the dream every day, though that's their dream career. Yeah. That was like a really crazy realization for me. Yeah. Okay, let's talk about season two. What can fans expect this season?

Fans can expect definitely some surprises that I am so, so excited for them to see. And like, I also think like it's just fun because for the characters and for us as actors, like, season one was us trying to find our bearings and like figure out what is the show and figure out like, like, how to do this versus season two. It was like, we, we know how to do this. We know who we are. And like, we can really like take a hold of this and go for it. So it's like, my character is in a very different space. She's like a lot more confident in, in who she is and like entering, she's going back to school in semester two and like didn't think she was going to be there at the end of season one. She's like kicked out of school. And then we realized she has to come back.

So she's like really motivated to be like, I'm going to do things right this semester. And she had a lot of realizations with her sexuality season one. And now she's like very comfortable. with it, which I think is also really cool to see on screen of, like, a character who's not, like, struggling with that new part of herself. She's like, cool, I get to like embrace this and, like, now go forth with my romantic chaos, but in a new way. And, like, that's really fun to see too. So I think fans will be very excited. And there's so many moments that I'm like, I just can't wait to see their reaction because, like, even while shooting, I was like, I think that people who, like, we're super invest in season one, they're going to be super invested in

season two. So I cannot wait. Are there any parallels? There doesn't have to be. But are there any parallels between your character's experience at university and yours? Totally, totally. Well, like, she, she's, like, in high school still. She's, like, in grade 11. But when Kitty, like, goes away for the first time, it was, like, obviously, she's going to international school. It's, like, all bringing new experiences. When I went to Korea for the first time, I was basically going international school. Like, I was like, I feel like I'm on an exchange. Like, I'm in a brand new city, a place I, like, never lived before. I'm becoming an adult for the first time. I'm experiencing all these new things, emotions are high. Those parallels were like very strong. Like we're both

experiencing something new. We're both in a new city, in a new place far from home. And like, just figuring out who you are and figuring yourself out is like basically the theme of the entire show and like very real for young adults for sure. Like your stages are changing and you're figuring things out. So it's very cool to kind of like hold her hand through it of like, oh, we're both doing this in like different ways. Yeah, I was going to ask how like portraying her has kind of influenced your own personal growth at all? For sure, it definitely has.

Like, I think season one was so impactful for me in so many ways, but one being like, honestly, like the themes of the show were like so cool to kind of like work through through a character,

but I'm like, oh, I'm also freaking out about like, who am I? What do I want to do? What is this? What's like my relationship to everyone in my life

and her dynamic with her family is changing and so is mine and like getting to kind of explore it though through someone else was like really, really interesting. And I came home from season one with like such a different perspective on things than I had before the shoot, which I'm like so grateful to the show for. But yeah, it like definitely helped me just be like, it's like so, it's so fine to not know what's going on. Like literally that's what makes growing up

cool and what makes like life exciting. It's like, you don't know what's going to happen in a few months. And like, how awesome. Like anything can happen. It's something way better than you can imagine could happen. Yeah. Well, we are excited. I am a sucker for anything Jenny Han does because I'm just, I am just, I am a big Jenny fan. I am a big Jenny fan. Should we head in a Lemon 7 quick? Sure. You want to start us off? Yes. Okay. This segment is called Lemon 7. Okay. We have seven, um, uh, fun questions. Love it. Lemony questions. I'm ready. Lemony questions. Okay. Number one, what movie or song title best describes your mental health today? I'm going to say you need to calm down by Taylor Swift. Okay. I think at most points, that would be helpful for me. I'm shocked.

I know. I'm shocked. Nobody's ever said that. Oh, I feel so proud of myself. I know. It makes so much sense. Like for this podcast, nobody's ever said that. That was so good.

Wait, wow. I love that we both were like, wait, no one's so bad. I know. That's where my mind went first. I was like, wow, that's great. That's had to have been said before. I was like, no, it hasn't. No, that's so good.

Whoa. I feel that one. Okay, number two is how open are you with people in your life when struggling? I would say pretty open for sure. I'm lucky to have like a really close circle, especially like my immediate family and especially my sister. I will like tell her everything all the time. Help so much. Yes, literally.

Yeah. Love it. We love a good dump. All right. Number three, if you could only follow three social media accounts. what would they be? You can go across platforms, but just three accounts. Oh my gosh. Okay.

I feel like one would have to just be like dog. Like you know the account that's just called dog? Yeah. And there's just like a bunch of different dog content will always be positive for me. Is there really an account just called dog? Dog. Really? It's great.

I think I follow like dogs doing things or something. Oh, that also sounds great. Okay. I need to add that to who I'm following. Anything with that is just going to be a little mood boost. so that's healthy. There's a company called We the Urban. I don't know if you guys know them,

but they post a lot of like in case you to hear this type of like quotes and stuff. And I save so many of them because there's like just like little things of like reminders that when you're like doom scrolling, it just like will stop you and be like remind yourself like all these positive like validating great things. I'm like, I actually like it's been so beneficial. So I would probably keep following them. Urban. Love them.

And then Zendaya. I love Zendaya. So much. There we go. I just think she's the coolest ever. And like I look up to her and respect her so much that she's in post that often, which I also like love. Like I hope to get there where I'm like only to post my projects.

Like social media stresses me out so much that like I want to see her updates. I want to see all her cool outfits. I'd be so sad to miss those. So those three would be pretty good. I feel that. We were at the Farmer's Market not that long ago. And Tom and Zendaya were there. Stop.

And I was literally like, we walked past them and he was like, that was Tom. Did I see? No, I was ahead. I told you. I, like, gave you a heads up because I knew you were going to get really giddy. I just love her. I just think her story is, like, awesome. I also, like, watched her on Disney Channel.

It's, like, cool to, like, see. Truly shake it up is, like, why I wanted to be an actor. Like, no doubt that show single-handedly, I was like, that's the dream. Oh, my. She's close. Especially, like, the dance, like. I never saw it. We have to, I mean, watching it.

Watching it now might be a little interesting as, like, a 32, like. Well, yeah. And because one of. the girls was my sister on a show. Oh. Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. Yeah.

That's so funny. Well, we'll do a little recap. Yeah. Yeah. The girl was not Zendaya. Number four. What is your favorite form of self-care? I would say journaling is like major.

Yeah. Magerly up there. Yeah. Number five, what would you say is the most misunderstood thing about you? Whoa. Whoa. I think this like sounds negative, but I'm like, I feel like this is the, this is the place to talk about these things. I think I'm seen as like a very cheery, perky, happy, sunshiny person, which I like, I'm very glad that that is the energy I bring into a room.

That's energy I hope to bring into the world. Like, I'm very glad. But I think people are like just do not think that I like think as much as I. I do as well as like, I feel like I can be quite cynical at times. And like, my sister always says, she's like, you are an like optimistic pessimist. And like, I think that is perfectly sums it up. Like I want to be optimistic. And like I am in the way that I get so excited over little things. And like, I am also a very perky person. And like that is a very real part of me. But I also can be very pessimistic. And my tendencies are like to see through things a lot and to see negatives and things.

And, like, I think people would be very surprised to know that about me because I don't think that comes across right away. Yeah. And I'm, like, always thinking all the time, very observant. I care so, so, so much. And I worry so much that, like, I think a lot of who are like, oh, like, you're so carefree. And, like, you're so, like, fun and very, especially people at school. I've said that to me a lot of, like, oh, like, you're so sunshiny and, like, happy-go-lucky type of person. I'm like, that is, like, wild, but I'm happy that you think that.

I'm glad I'm giving that. I'm, glad I'm, like, bringing that positive energy to you because that's, like, I really hope I, I can do that for other people, but it always surprises me that, like, people would be shocked to know. Yeah. How did you become so self-aware? Like, it's incredible. Thank you. I don't know.

I think sometimes it's, like, my greatest strength and greatest weakness that I, like, I know too much about myself. I, like, reflect to the ninth degree. I'm, like, also, I think very, like, empathetic and, like, will put myself in a lot of other people's situations. and weirdly I'm like, maybe that's why I like acting so much because I'm like, that's literally what you're doing actively every day as an actor. You're like putting yourself in someone else's situation and then like exploring their feelings through it, which is why I love this job so much.

I'm like, it's honestly made for me. But I think that helps of like understanding other people that makes you more self-aware of yourself. For sure. I don't know. Sometimes I really wish I was less though, because I think it would make you maybe a little more peaceful. But thank you.

Okay. Okay, number six is who has had the most positive impact on your mental health? I would say definitely my big sister, for sure. I like don't know how I got so lucky. I'm always like, thank you mom and dad. I feel like I won the lottery with this one, like to just be born into like, this is your best friend and she's going to be there forever. And yeah, I just cannot say enough amazing things about her because I don't know who I would be without, without her. Your guys' relationship sounds incredible. All right, last one. Number seven, if you could go back to one moment in your life. What moment would that be and what would you say to yourself?

Honestly, I think like at the very peak of all of my throw-up anxiety, it felt like I remember even being as a child being like, I can't imagine not feeling like this. Like as terrible it is right now, like I'm so scared that I'm never going to not feel this way. And like to go and give her a hug and be like, guess what? you are going to not feel this way one day. And like, sure, you're going to deal with other stuff and things are always going to be challenging. But this feeling and this scary, like, cloud you've trapped yourself into, you're going to break through from it. And like, you're going to do those things that feel so out of reach right now. I, like, would love to tell little me that.

And just like, I think that would have gone so far. Oh, my gosh. That's beautiful. I love having, like, people that are in your situation on that have. a younger audience because I think it's so awesome when, you know, having you open up and hearing your audience share that because so many people deal with that. And I'm sure you're going to help a lot of them by opening up. So thank you for sharing with us. Everyone, thank you. The new season of ExoKitty comes out tomorrow. I can believe it. Thank you for like creating a space

where I feel like I can do this and like be comfortable to talk about it. I appreciate it so much. Of course. Thank you. that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.