The Squeeze - Christina Perri: A Story of Resilience

Episode Date: April 2, 2025

This week, the Lautners are joined by singer and songwriter Christina Perri! Christina starts from the very beginning, sharing what led her parents to seek therapy for her at just eight years old, what those early sessions looked like, and how she felt about it all at such a young age. She reflects on the unhealthy coping mechanisms that developed in her late teens and early twenties, her struggles with drugs and alcohol, what ultimately led her to choose sobriety, and offers powerful advice for anyone dealing with addiction or facing the fear and shame of relapse. She also walks us through the whirlwind of when “Jar of Hearts” took off after airing on So You Think You Can Dance and how it catapulted her career. From there, we explore her journey through motherhood—navigating postpartum depression, miscarriage, and stillbirth—and how she approached those conversations with her daughter. Christina opens up about grief, the toll child loss can have on a marriage, and what’s helped her heal. To wrap it up, she shares the story behind writing “A Thousand Years” for Breaking Dawn, her love for the Twilight series, and what inspired her to turn the song into a children’s book!Be sure to follow Christina https://instagram.com/christinaperri/!Shop Christina’s new children’s book ‘A Thousand Years’ here: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/722851/a-thousand-years-by-christina-perri-illustrated-by-joy-hwang-ruiz/To email us your questions or share your story, you can reach out to [e-mail] sure to rate, review, and follow the podcast so you don't miss an episode! Plus, follow us on Instagram:The Squeeze:  https://instagram.com/thesqueeze/Tay Lautner: https://instagram.com/taylautner/Taylor Lautner: https://instagram.com/taylorlautner/& TikTok:  https://tiktok.com/@thesqueezepodcastTo learn more from The Lemons Foundation, follow  https://instagram.com/lemonsbytay/ and visit lemonsbytay.comEpisode Sponsors:Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at https://www.rula.com/squeeze #rulapodVisit premierprotein.com and go to Where to Buy to find a retailer near you or find where to buy onlineGo to Cymbiotika.com/SQUEEZE for 20% off your order + free shipping todayNuuly is a great value at $98 a month for any 6 styles, but right now you can get $28 off your first month of Nuuly when you sign up with the code SQUEEZE at Nuuly.comPut your water to work with Gatorade Hydration Booster New customers can get the Liquid Lash Extensions Mascara and a mini-sized Brilliant Eye Brightener at a special set price with free shipping available at thrivecausemetics.com/THESQUEEZEProduced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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or sunnycars. The following podcast is a dear media production. I ended up getting pregnant again. Every single test of mine was fine. And then in October of 2020, I went and got my 30-week anatomy scan. And that's when they found like there was an issue. And so for two weeks, I was being monitored and everything. And then I just stopped feeling her move.

And we went into the hospital and it was confirmed that she had died. And so I gave birth to her on November 24th. And it was the hardest experience of my whole life. I was able to hold Rosie and meet her and say goodbye. You know, like so many things, like all tied to doing it for Carmela. What was your conversation with Carmela about Rosie when you got back home? Oh my gosh. It was so, so profound.

Carmel was like looking at us a little funny because she could sense something was up. She's such an empath. She's so deep. And I said exactly what the doctor said to say. Yeah. Honey, you're here and your body works and you're healthy. And daddy's here and his body works and he's healthy. And mommy's here and my body works and I'm healthy.

but the baby came and her body didn't work and she died. And then we didn't say anything. And we sort of watch it kind of go in her brain and she like continues to play. And we're holding our breath. I mean, I'll never forget this moment. And she just looks at us and we're looking at her. And she goes, don't worry, mom and dad. You'll have another baby and her body will work.

Paul and I both were jaw dropped. What? I still cannot believe that that came to her little mind to say, that to us and to comfort us, I just had Carmela in my mind. I was like Carmela said, we're going to do it. And she was right. Christina. Hello. Welcome to the squeeze. Thank you. Thanks for having me. We're very excited. We've been trying to do this for a bit. So it feels a little bit surreal that it's finally arrived. I know. It's wild. It's wild to be sitting here with you. Also to be like promoting what I'm promoting and to be sitting with you. Like it's so full

circle. Like it's like knocking my socks off. Yeah. It didn't even. Oh, yeah. I know. I don't know why I didn't really put that all together. Yeah. Pretty crazy. Right? Yeah, we were talking about the last time we saw each other. Yeah. Probably at a show of yours. Yeah. Ten years ago.

Wild. Yeah. Well, wild for how much has happened in ten years. Like, but also wild that, like, it feels like yesterday. Like, I definitely don't feel like I saw you ten years ago. Yeah. You know what even is time? I know. But yeah, you came to my show.

I think it was the Greek theater. And we had a blast. I mean, you were, you know, we hung out a lot that season in our lives. I feel like we had the same friends and, yeah, it was a good time. I love that. Good to see you again. I know. Yeah.

This is so fun. So sweet. And now we're grown up. Look at us. We're adults. Adults. It's weird. We're adult.

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay. So we start each episode off with this little jar. It's a game called Citrus Got Real. Okay. You want to pull a little piece of paper out of there. Okay.

And read the question. Cool. All right. Drum roll. I'm scared. This is so appropriate. Favorite Disney movie. Ooh.

Okay. I'm such a Disney adult now. I don't know. Yeah, maybe we'll get into that later. But hands down, no doubt, Mary Poppins. It's my number one favorite movie of all time, my favorite female vocalist of all time, favorite songwriters of all time. That was a good question for you. Mary Poppins.

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. It's just Disney movie. Have you ever seen Mary Poppenter? Robbins? I honestly don't know. Oh my God. I need to leave. I really don't know. I'm just kidding. I haven't seen that movie in years, but when I was a kid, I would, I would just have that on the movie. Really? Yeah. I feel like it's one of those that we're on in the background. Like our parents generation really love that movie. So like my mom used to whistle it all the time. He used to sing it all the time. So that's also why I think I love it. Yeah.

But yeah, you probably saw it just from existing. Like how old is it? Mary Poppins is really old. It's like 38. No, no, no, wait. Really old. Julie Andrews is now like 90 and she was 30. So 60, it's been 60 years. 1964. There you go. I'm like 1930. It's a little far off.

Geez. Yeah, so it's old. I didn't realize that was Julie Andrews. Yeah, I didn't really put that together either. Dude, Mary Poppins sound of music, that's heard like best era. Wow. Geez. Well, now you guys get to have a date tonight and watch it.

I've been trying to get him to watch Tangled. A little different than Mary Poffins. Wait, you've not seen Tangled? No. Get out of here. That's, oh my God, that is absolutely top ten. Top ten. I won't say top five.

I just did this the other day. I did the podcast with the guys in the kitchen. You know the guys that same? And so we did a whole like Disney, because he used to work at Disney and it was like this whole thing. And they made me like rate a Disney movie. But like I didn't get to know like what ones they were going to tell me. And then I had to put them in order. And but Tangled was was in there.

She swears it's incredible. It is. I love them. It is. I know like every word of everything. Did you like start watching it? because of yourself or when you were babysitting Kennedy? No, myself.

Oh, it was a you thing? Yeah. Oh. Yeah. I just assumed like she used to babysitting. No, that came out. Okay. Well, back to here.

Yep. Well, I could probably guess. I feel like, yeah, we weren't 2010. That young. Yeah. Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mandy Moore.

Dude, I ran into Mandy Moore on an airplane and I was more starstruck that she was tangled than I was that she was Mandy Moore. Yeah. That says, I think that would be me. Right. I had her album. Right. But I was like, no, no, no, you, you know, you sing it last.

I see the light. Wow. Yeah, it's, it's really good. Here's the thing, though, like, you guys, like, I don't know if you want kids or not, but, like, when or if that is the season for you, you're just kind of fall into that and watch all that stuff. Do you know what I mean? That's going to help speed up my timeline.

Do you guys have a timeline? It's the best. Do it. I know. I know. I don't. We don't. We don't not have a.

My timeline was, so I'm 28. Okay. Oh, you're so young. Yeah. At 30, I was going to. 30 is such a sweet spot. Yeah. I was 30 when I had Carmela, my first.

That's what I've been told that that's, yeah. We're almost there. I'm almost there. Dude, you know what? You guys are doing it right? Because my husband and I were not married before we had a baby. And like, it's so funny because I, I'm always so against like the order of things and I love being different. Right.

And like, my parents were very religious and his parents were super religious. So, like, you know, I thought I was going to burst in the flames when they were. that happened. It was like a whole thing. And I was like, oh, now I understand why people get married before they have kids. Like I thought it was just like I was being rebellious and didn't want to follow the rules. But it's like, no, like we didn't have time together before a kid. We didn't, we weren't married before a kid. We didn't have like a foundation of our marriage. Like you guys are doing it right. Like just like enjoy each other, sleep as much as you can. And then like, you know, the baby season will come. And yeah, it's even sweeter.

Yeah. If you guys are, you know, because like Paul and I like were like hanging. on by a thread. Like now I can talk about it. It's been seven years. Like, I don't even know how we stayed married because like we got married when I was nine months pregnant. Like, do not, 10 out of 10 do not recommend, you know, but so if I were you good. Yeah, I did. I did. I did. I did. I did. We made it. We made it. I do. I do a lot of help. We had a lot of help. Okay. Let's dive into this because we definitely have a lot to talk about more than just our Disney movies and our love for. I could do this all day. But as Taylor said, you guys go way back, which we'll get into a little later, which I'm super excited.

excited about because I know some of it, but I have, I have questions. I have as a fan of a franchise and a song. Yeah. I'm excited to dive in your story because I feel like you are the true definition of resilience and just everything you've had to endure in life and overcome. And you're such a role model to so many people, myself included. And I'm just really excited to like dive into your story because I know our love and drops, our listeners.

Oh, cute. are going to be able to take away a lot from your story and all of the different aspects. But something that I think is super interesting is most of the time when we have people on, it's about how their mental health struggles started after fame and, you know, how fame affected them. But for you, mental health started when you were a kid. Yeah. And I'm curious if there was like what prompted was it like your parents or a teacher to like what prompted that to putting you in therapy?

Well, it was definitely my mom. So I remember like, I feel like I was eight years old the first time I said something that freaked her out. Like I know that there's stories about me when I was like four where I would say to my mom like, oh, I don't, you know, I'm not, I don't deserve any presents from Santa Claus. Like, because she'd be like, let's make a list and write him a letter. And I'm like, no, I don't deserve presents this year. My mom be like, like, those were red flags. But this is also back in like 1991, like where I feel like mental health. was just not talked about ever, especially if you had a kid that was like showing signs of like, you know, odd behavior. And like, I feel like if now, if my kid would say that, like I would, I would know exactly what to do. Like I can imagine my mom hairdresser, like never went to therapy. My dad's from Italy, barber. Like they're very like working class, blue collar. Like, you know, family and products of the 40s and 50s that like didn't talk about feelings. So when I would say stuff like that, which I'd imagine now as like, the.

very emo child, I can think back and, you know, of how I've always been. And also now that I have my own kid who's just like me and asks me questions that I used to ask my parents, like it freaks me out, but it's so cool too, because she's like a little existential queen. And like, I feel like I know what to say now based on my own experience. But if I was asking my mom those questions, which I probably was, like, I can imagine my mom being, like, confused and also like, what do I do? like what's the best thing to do like she just reached out to someone like to you know to get me a therapist so I feel like that was my mom's best idea in hindsight like I definitely felt like I couldn't then talk to my parents about this stuff like I've worked through this later on in my life but like I feel like if

the way I look at it now is if Carmel came up to me and was like I have this thing I can't hold it it's really heavy and I was like oh I can't hold it either but let's ask this person to help you hold it like that immediately like kind of separates you from your parents emotionally. So like I have, you know, I've done the work. So I know that around eight or nine is when I sort of felt like I was like a lone ranger. But also in hindsight, like, wow, thanks mom and dad. Like most kids weren't in therapy when I started at eight years old. Like that was the best they could do.

They also probably couldn't afford it. So they like, you know, had to work harder for it. And, you know, I survived. So I feel like it was the best thing at that time. and that was everyone's best idea. But it really was my mom. And I know because I was like, around eight or nine, I was saying things about like hurting myself.

And she was like, all right, like, I'm going to take you to this guy named Brian, you know? And then I like lied to Brian for like two years. But still, like I made it through. So like whatever I did in that room, whatever I like, whatever we talked about like however it all kind of played out, like it must have,

it worked because I'm still here. And I had giant feelings. And I had, you know, I was such an empath. and I felt things so now they have a term for it. It's called a deep feeling kid. Like all the mom groups and all like the Instagrams and stuff like everyone talks about your deep feeling kid.

And I'm like, oh my God, that was me. And I didn't know that. Jeez. Yeah. Were you like when you're that age and your parents put you in something like that therapy? Are you, do you remember if you were okay with it or were you mad at them for putting you in it? I think I was mad because I remember being like not opening up. And what's funny is like I'm so open.

and I'm so like, you know, the older I got, the more I was like able to talk about everything. So I, it's odd for me to imagine sitting there like lying to this guy. And you're like, how are you? And I'm like, I'm fine. How are you? But I was also like a rebellious, like, little like troublemaker, you know? Like I was, uh, I was always against. So I feel like I was mad at my parents for doing that.

But something must have worked. Like somehow this guy probably got in there and I said enough things that made me feel like comfortable or that made me just like slow down this like spiral. I think I was always spiraling and like I didn't know I didn't have any tools on how to stop that and then I probably got them from these different therapists because I ended up going to like three or four different ones. That's what I was going to ask. And like I feel like finally the fourth one this man named Jim Del Pino, I'll never forget, he and I clicked and he used to let me smoke cigarettes in the session. I mean this is also like I don't even know, 2003, and maybe, no, maybe earlier.

Oh, God. Yeah, I think like 2000, 2004. You're howled? Okay. Like a teenage. 15, 16, 17. So it was like cool that he didn't like tell me I couldn't do it. Right.

But I think, no, no, no. I wasn't eight. No, no, no. I was a teenager. But I was also like, you know, I felt like, like that was probably such a good idea from him like to make me feel safe. Because then I finally opened up. Like he was finally the first therapist that I really talked to about like,

really deep stuff. Yeah. And, but again, even the people between, you know, eight and probably 18, I, like, somehow survived. So I will say, I also think music happened at the same time. So I started writing music around 15. So from, like, eight to 15, it was a bit dramatic and messy. I didn't really have any tools.

I played some sports in school, but mostly I would, like, cry listening to Mariah carry in my bathroom and like listen to sad songs, which again, now I know is because I was like a budding songwriter. But, but then when I started writing songs, that's when I started to feel like I had like a tool. Like I had like something for my mental health. And then that plus this awesome guy, therapist that I had set me up, I think, to succeed in life. So Lemon Drops, you know how much I love therapy and how much I think it is. just such an amazing tool, um, to be able to have, to have someone that is a licensed professional that you can talk to. Um, but a lot of the times it can either be hard to find a therapist.

It's not cost effective. And also having to go out, you know, it's hard during the week when you're working to make that time to go actually visit a therapist in office. But that's where telehealth comes in. And telehealth really has made mental health care more convenient and accessible for millions of people. However, critical challenges like finding a suitable therapist, scheduling appointments, and expensive out-of-pocket costs still keep many from getting the care that they need. Well, Rula is on a mission to make high-quality mental health care from a licensed professional easy and affordable for everyone. Rula's got you covered. They take most major insurance plans and the average copay is only $15 per session. You can now get the quality care you need

when you need it at a price you can afford. Most online therapy platforms focus on connecting clients with licensed therapists, but they often fall short when it comes to help with medication management. And with Rula, they have a wide range of licensed professionals, including psychiatrists who will help you get the care that you need. Rula is the place to go for your mental health, even if you're not exactly sure what you need. Thousands have already trusted Rula to support them on their journey

toward improving their mental health and overall well-being, head over to rule a dot com slash squeeze to get started today. After you sign up, they ask where you have heard about them. Please support our show. Tell them that we sent you. Go to R-U-L-A dot com slash squeeze. Take the first step towards better mental health today. You deserve quality care from someone who cares. Lemon drops, you know that this new year I've really been focusing on my wellness and not necessarily, like external, physical, but more so internal what I'm putting into my body and making sure that I'm really taking care of myself from the inside out. And one of those major points that I have really been wanting to hit this year is getting enough protein because majority of us are not getting enough

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people that love caffeine, it is kind of a double header. If you guys have not tried Premier Protein, you really need to try it because I can guarantee you you are not getting enough protein in your diet. You can visit PremiereProtene.com and go to where to buy to find a retailer near you or to find where to buy online. Premier Protein, Sweeten the Journey. A question for everyone listening right now. How are those 2025 vision boards going for you that you made a couple months ago? It's okay if you're not going great. It happens to the best of us. But it's never too late to start picking up those goals that you really wanted to set for yourself and start romanticizing wellness again, especially your wellness routine. That's something that I've been really trying to focus on. I've been all about energy, gut health, blowing skin, because we all know that when you feel good, you'll look. look good. And spring is on its way here now, and it's time to refocus on those goals. One thing that I have been consistent with is symbiotica's vitamin C. And let me tell you, you are missing out if you

have not tried this product. My skin is brighter. I have more energy. It's clean energy and it's steady. And it's truly the perfect morning boost. I absolutely love symbiotica. You guys have when we talk about this company many, many times. And symbiotica is truly as clean as it gets. There's no seed oils, preservatives, or artificial junk, just high quality, real ingredients that actually do something. I'm telling you guys, when you take this stuff consistently, you will see and feel the difference.

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That's symbiotica.com slash squeeze for 20% off plus free shipping. You guys need to check out symbiotica. Wellness made simple. Yeah. Was your therapy as an eight-year-old like just talk therapy or was it more like? Because we've had some people on that have had like more like child psychologist. Yeah, like play therapy. Yeah.

Yours was more talk. Mine was sit down talk, yeah. So, I mean, I probably would have benefited from play therapy. Because I've already done that for my daughter Carmelo when we lost her little sister. And I was like, okay, so I'd rather do too much than too little. So we had her in like a play therapy, a music therapy. And then she does like guidance counselor at school. So she does like a combo of everything because we're just so pro therapy like in our house. And all of it is great. I mean, I feel like all of it works. What is play therapy? She can probably explain it a lot better than that. Well, I feel like it's, so you have, like, uh, therapists that are trained to see children's emotions and their thought patterns and their things that might be stuck on, like that they do in play. So for instance, like, I had this woman who came and she had this big sandbox. And then she had like all these figurines, like a hundred different figurines that the child

would then make their world in the sand. So like for Carmela, like she would make, um, like there was this pregnant lady, like she was like a little figurine that was pregnant, and Carmel would put her in a bird cage, like, every week, and she would, like, protect the pregnant lady. And then, like, she would also do all these other things, like with a school bus and, like, you know, all these other stuff.

And then the therapist could sort of figure out what's going on in the kid's head, and the kid thinks they're playing. Wow. So it's, like, really kind of a magical way to get into a kid's brain. And also kids learn the most through play. So that's why they do, like, play activities at school, and so as they're playing, they also open up. So, like, for instance, like, even with Carmel, again, she's my only example,

but she'd be playing and she'll, like, talk about some pretty heavy things, but she's playing at the same time. So her brain can do both things without feeling like, oh, we're having a really important time. Yeah. Like, it relaxes them and they're able to, like, you know, and then, like, what's really cool is with Carmel, that little pregnant lady that she kept putting in the bird cage,

like, eventually she stopped. And then she was, like, really worried about starting school. And then the therapist said to me, she has integrated this trauma and now she's on to like being nervous about school. Wow. He's like, oh my gosh, great. Wow. But like that's how like we knew that she was like, you know, getting better.

So it's really cool. Cool. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. That's unreal. Yeah, it's cool.

Moving into your like later teenage years, I think that's when like you started using unhealthy coping mechanism. Sure. Is that, was there something that happened specifically or did you just like, casually start drinking and then it just like added up and got worse. No, something specific happened. I will say I now know by being a sober alcoholic, I now know that like I had alcoholic tendencies maybe my whole life.

Like for instance, like I had one pickle and then I'd have to eat like the whole jar. My mom be like, why didn't you just stop? And I'd be like I couldn't. You know what I mean? Like that type of addictive thing, like as silly as that example, is like I think there were signs like my whole life so I think if you have a predisposition or if you have alcoholism in which we've proven as a mental disorder in some ways like I think it doesn't matter what happens in your life

where you're from where you come from how much money you have like your job like your schooling like I kind of think you end up seeing the world in that lens and like behaving that way either way I just want to say that but I also think that trauma and things that happened to you also expedited. So for me, I was 17. And I guess from like 13 to 17, I probably had beers, you know, like at my friend's parents' basement.

You know, we'd like drink a little bit and like fill back their bottles with water. And like, you know what I mean? Like we were just being like kids. Yeah. And then I remember it like shifting for me when I was 17 and I first did cocaine. And I was like,

I felt comfortable in my skin for the first time. And that's odd because that's not supposed to be your reaction to like a mind altering drug like that. So I believe I had like ADHD. I believe that like I actually, it like quieted my mind and it made me feel comfortable and normal. And then people would say to me like, I don't know, we'd go out and like my family would be like, oh my gosh, you were so fun tonight.

You were so like out of your, you know, you didn't seem uncomfortable. You weren't quiet and weird in the corner, you know. So it actually like brought me out of my shell, which, you know, I hate to say that about a drug, but I also think that, well, first of all, I'm super blessed. I got sober, but I think it saved my life a little bit. And I do think alcoholics say that. Like, if there was a season of their lives, like, where drugs and alcohol helped them get through, like, a hard time. And so for me, I actually had an experience of sexual assault when I was 17.

And so I don't think it's a coincidence that the same year that that happened to me, I started doing drugs every day and drinking all the time. So I think that's, I think that's like, was sort of like the catalyst. And then I think because of the way my body reacted to it and I loved it. And then I loved how people treated me and how comfortable. Like I was just, oh my gosh, the sense of ease that it brought me is what kept me doing it. I mean, truthfully, I was like, wait, wait, wait. Like, I don't feel insecure.

I don't feel, you know, embarrassed. I don't feel just like uncomfortable. And so I did. I rode that train as much as I could until it was absolutely a mess, which I'm grateful for and I ended up hitting my knees around like 23 where like I was crashing my car I couldn't hold a job I was like I mean I was only 23 but still I was I was a mess you know and I was not fun like it stopped working so for instance like and I hope that happens to people I hope it doesn't continue always working because then you might always do it like I feel like a common thing that happens is

you know the drugs and the alcohol just stop working and and instead of like helping you feel comfortable it messes up every area of your life. And it did. It did for me in a huge way. And I'm grateful for it because I ended up getting sober. Yeah. Was it you that knew you needed help? Or did somebody like point that out to you and help you take that step?

It was me. Yeah. Which I think is huge because like I'm pretty sure my brother told me 30 times. I'm pretty sure my mom and dad, you know, were worried about me and always, you know, checking to see if I was alive. Like there were so many things that happened that I didn't even notice. it was me and I do share about this often with sober friends mine like it felt like a gift like it felt like one day I woke up and like next to my bed was like this little present and it was like I should

get sober and I'd never thought it before I was like where did it come from so that's sort of why people think it's like a divine intervention too because it makes sense like I was 22 at the time like why like you know that's like when you're partying and having fun and like here I am going like maybe I should stop and then I was like what who said that? Like it was like so weird for me, truthfully. It was not something that like a discussion I had had ever with anyone. So then that's why I also believed it. That's why I was like, wow, maybe I should.

And then I found my way and asked for help and asked people if, you know, how do you do that? I knew someone who hadn't drank and like she helped me. And it was like this go here at this time and meet this person. It was like a whole thing. And it saved my life. Wow. Was it like when you woke up and saw that gift, was it like a, I'm, done like were you just like completely closed door? Were you still like was it an active like

trying to get sober? You were still like dabbling in you know in the drugs and alcohol. Well at first it was a full I'm done. And so that to me is like I guess I had like a physical bottom but also more an emotional bottom. I think they're more important. I think like you need to feel like spiritually bankrupt and like just empty and done. You know? And because a lot of people who just have physical stuff like don't end up getting. sober like it's not enough to scare them you know which sounds crazy to a normal person but to someone who's not it's like yeah of course like you just like get better and you keep going um but for me it was like uh i was sad enough and i was felt broken enough and i felt uh you know ready

and so i really i did stay sober for uh the first time i chose to be sober i stayed sober for a year and then interestingly when my career happened because it happened like overnight but while i was sober because of course it did i was a mess before like i would never have been able to to like catch my dream the shooting star in the Disney movie and like I caught it and I was like bright eyed and bushy tail because I was so sober I think like that was also a part of it and I was in my own skin like I was me I was like truthfully like my my true spirit and so all these amazing things happened and then what's what I also again don't find coincidental is that the day my album came out I wasn't taking care of my sobriety I was working every single day for an

entire year. I'd catapulted from being a waitress to a recording artist overnight. Like, I was living this whirlwind. And the day we got home from tour, I drank by myself in my big house with no furniture. And it was like so dramatic and like emo, you know, but it was that that's what happened. Like I, it makes perfect sense to me that I would do that. So I ended up losing my sobriety. And it took me a whole year to get it back. So I went in and out, in and out, in and out. But at the time, too, I wasn't, I wasn't going too hard because I was busy and I was older, you know. And so I was like, maybe I'm not. Maybe I don't need it. Like, I was questioning everything. And I'm glad I did that because then I was convinced when I knew it had little to do with drugs and

alcohol because I had stopped doing them for so long that it was really just about my mind and my perspective and my life and my mental health. And so that's when I very luckily got sober again March 1st, 2012. So I drank in May of 2011, and then took me until March to stop again, and then I've stayed stopped for 13 years. Wow. Yeah. Congrats.

Thank you. That's amazing. Yeah. It's possible. I love that. I'm curious if you have advice for someone who has relapsed and they're feeling ashamed and just like not advice to get them to. you know, be sober again like they want to, but they're just feeling so ashamed that they did relapse.

Yeah. Well, the truth is I feel like relapse is a part of so many people's stories, but you need to hear those stories. Do you know what I mean? So like some people decide to be sober and do it themselves, which is fine and great and everybody has their own story. For me, I couldn't do that. I tried it, but I work better in a community. So like I go to meetings and when you sit in a meeting and you hear people share, that's the magic where you relate and then you feel safe and then you feel hopeful and then you feel like you can do it. So I feel like that's the missing piece that some people don't want to do. And I just think it's such a huge piece because it would be hard to convince your own brain of solving an issue that your own brain is making. Do you think that's how I look at it?

Even if you just have one friend who says to you, no, you can do it or I did that. That happened to me. I've, you know, failed at this a couple times. Like you just should be having conversations with people. So I think the advice would be like don't carry it by yourself. Like there's so many people that, you know, probably are in your life that would help you carry it, whether it's people you know or people you could meet that could help you. Yeah. But like that's the beautiful thing about sober people. Like we all are there and like that's part of our like, you know, internal job. We know that like our hand is always there if someone needs it. Yeah. And so like finding people that are like that would be, yeah, my biggest advice. Like don't do it alone. Yeah. That's so important.

You mentioned when you were sober, your first time before your relapse, your first little rise to fame, catching your star. I know Taylor has a story about that moment, but. It's not much of a story. It's just the fact that I remember, we used to watch, so you think you can dance in my household, my family household. And I remember that night, like watching that episode and you sing a jar of hearts. and just me being like, who the heck is this girl? Like I was obsessed with that song after that. Oh, thank you.

Major foreshadowing. But what was that moment like for you? Oh, my God. It was insane. It was absolutely like a dizzy movie is how I look at it now. Yeah. But it was also really hard at the same time because I had not been performing. I had not been playing shows.

Like I moved to L.A. in the hopes of being a songwriter maybe for other people because I was like not super like I didn't sing in a hairbrush when I was growing up. I'm going to be a superstar. Like that, that really wasn't my vibe. And then the universe was sort of like, no, it is you singing it. Because I had sent in this demo

and it was me singing jar of hearts. And my best friend gave it to Stacey Tuki on So You Think You Can Dance. And my best friend's Kelty. And like, these are all like my fairy godmothers of the story. And like she, Kelty emailed it to Stacy who was like at the time huge on So You Can Dance for like these lyrical,

emotional, you know, ballads. Even though that that was her thing. Nobody had like happened to them what happened to me. Like I was the first one that so you think you can dance like broke. Right. You know what I mean?

Like I feel like Grace Anatomy did that for some artists like Ingrid Michelson or like in the early 2010s like it was possible to have your song on a TV show and then have that be the beginning of your career. It was just starting to be like a vehicle. Like going viral. Like wasn't a thing yet. And then it was like we were at, well, I gave the song to Kelty and she gave it to Stacey and said like, hey, this is my best friend like she's a waitress like you know maybe one day you could play her song on your show like she was Kelty was just thinking Stacy might like the song and Stacy was like I love it how about Wednesday and that was June 30th 2010 8 p.m. I actually went to the show so the first time it played

was it was it was just a minute and a half of the song and it was um Catherine McCormick and Billy Bell who danced to it and I was sitting in the back row like I was at the show I took off work I was a waitress I like got my hair done. Me and KLT went to the show and we're sitting in the last row and I'm like, this is so cool. And like everyone's like, who are you? And I was like, that's my song. Like it was just like there was no like, I mean, I didn't have a record label.

I didn't have a managers. I didn't have anything. I was just like, you know, it was so random. It was just like a magic random thing. And, and then what's crazy is that it went because I did have it on iTunes. So like that's the thing. So I knew someone that knew someone at iTunes. Okay.

So what's funny is every year on June 3rd. 30th for the past 16 years now, I send little gifts to the like nine people that were a part of that night because there's some random guy that worked at iTunes. There's a random girl that lived in San Francisco who was like my online person who like did this thing with my name where like if you Google it or you spell it wrong, it would still lead you to the to the video like geotagging or whatever. One guy that was like, I'll be your manager. Like it was just like these like nine random people. Wow. That all like had a hand in this magic moment. And so it's, always been, you know, very sentimental to me, uh, that everyone just like did that. Like,

the guy at iTunes even left the office. And this was back when iTunes had like that brick that would like switch, you know, it was like, it was like the big image when you go to iTunes. Yeah. And like, he went back and put me on the brick. Like that was huge. That could have been it. Like, I don't know what the magic thing was. Like I've thought about it a million and a half times. Like, what was the thing? Like the lightning in a bottle. And, you know, maybe it's a combination of everything. But I do think, like, everyone did something really special that night. that really worked for me. And so I was in the audience,

and then the song went from not existing to number six on the iTunes chart, and it stayed there for a whole week. And I flew to New York City the next day. I quit my job as a waitress. I, like, you know, I signed a record deal. Then I went on six days later to the show and performed it on the show.

And Kat Dealey had this, like, whole intro for me. She was like, we've just changed this guy's whole life. You know, it was like this whole thing. And they're like, this little waitress, you know, and there I am like, absolutely terrified. like terrified because I'd never done this. Like I had never done Jarve Hearts on piano because I wrote on guitar and then we like moved it over to piano.

So I had to like relearn it. And then I was like, okay, I mean, I wrote it. But it was like it just was so scary and wonderful and all and so fast. It was literally overnight. And what's funny is because most people that get famous overnight have been trying their whole lives. Yeah. And me, I'm like, no, actually it was yesterday. And I wasn't.

And so like I was so traumatized like in a good way. bad way. Like I had a lot of, you know, stuff to work on later on. But like that year was wild. It was like, and, and then the Twilight stuff happened. But like, the Jar Heart stuff was enough to like, you know, that whole first year was wild and crazy and wonderful. And then that next summer is when I wrote a thousand years. And then that's when I, I do say, like, that's when I sort of felt more comfortable in my skin. Like for a while, I thought like it shouldn't have been me. Like I wanted to be the songwriter, not the singer. I was like, how did this happen? Like, it's not supposed to be me. It's not supposed to be me. And then when I wrote a thousand years, I was like, okay, I think it's supposed

to be me. And I felt more comfortable, like, doing the job. But it was like, until that moment, I was like on some other planet. Oh, I mean, yeah, I can, I can only imagine. What's something that all of us ladies love to do. And that shop. I absolutely love shopping, especially shopping for clothes. And I love to, you know, try new clothes, new brands, but sometimes the price tag, it just, it's not feasible. And that is where Newley comes in. Newly is a subscription clothing rental service for just $98 a month. You can get your choice of any six styles each month. You choose whatever you want to rent for whatever you have going on. It's totally up to you. You have access to thousands of styles from more than 400 brands, everything you can drink.

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That's Thrive Cosmetics. C-A-U-S-E-M-E-T-I-C-S dot com slash the squeeze for 20% off your first order. Okay, so your mom, two beautiful little ones, but your journey of motherhood has not been the easiest. And it is something that, you know, we haven't gone through, but we, as of research, and have had to walk through with other people. Yeah. And I know it's a big, it's a big journey.

I'm wrapping up a lot of years into one question, but I would love for you to share kind of your journey of motherhood with our lemon drops. Sure. Oh my gosh. So let's see if I can sort of summarize it. It's been seven years. I will say when I first got back,

pregnant. It was not planned. My now husband and I were dating and I wanted to make babies with him. Like we were super in love and it was wonderful. And I actually moved to New York City for him to make babies with. And so I come from a big Italian family. I knew I always wanted to have a family and I had major, major baby fever. Like it happened like it was like so intense that Paul will say that like I asked him on our first date. I don't think I did. But he thinks I brought it up on our first date. It's possible. So I was like, super, super ready and excited. I was 29 when I got pregnant. And so I, I guess I just fell into it kind of easily, which, you know, I do want to say because then later I learned

the world of infertility, but at first, like, I have to be honest, it happened for me accidentally. And then my pregnancy with Carmelo was completely typical, normal, and perfect. And I only know that now through the, you know, the hindsight. And then I had Carmela in 2018 and she was like just the perfect little baby and had you know, no issues whatsoever. I, you know, held her right away and she went home. You know, everything was typical. And then I had a bit of postpartum depression, which I sing about.

I have a song called Mothers and like I kind of entered into that world of like, oh yeah, of course, like I have big feelings. Like, of course postpartum is going to sort of like mess with me because once I learned it was more of like the ocean and it comes in waves instead of like a condition that really helped me because I was like, oh, I'm just having a wave of it at four months. Oh, I'm just having a wave of it at eight months. It wasn't like, oh, I have this now and I have to identify as being someone with postpartum depression. To me, the best language around it was like, it'll come and go. It's how much it affects you hormonally. I mean, it's literally it's your body. It's like not, there's not

much you can do to prevent it. It depends on your genetic makeup, your experience, your, your your breastfeeding, your hormones. Like, it's so specific to each person. So I feel like I got through that pretty well because at this point, I had been sober nine years. I had a therapist who helped me. I had an amazing family. Like, I got through that.

Yeah. I didn't take medication, but I had my routines, my meetings, my meditating, like things I did, like my tools. Yeah. And every time I did that, it kind of like raised me up above water and I was like, I was good. And I say that now because it's not. what happened later.

Yeah. And then I got pregnant with our second in 2019, and we tried for that because Carmelah was a year and a half. And I was super excited. And Paul was super excited. And I got pregnant in November of 2019. And then I had my first miscarriage, January 2020. And I was 11 weeks pregnant.

And so what happened is like the short version is that I had already learned so much about miscarriage at this point by being a mom, by being, um, my friends. having babies by reading a lot of things. I've read a lot of books. I also shared about it online and like the amount of women that wrote to me were, you know, it was enormous, the support and love I got from that experience. So I didn't get super discouraged. I mean, the truth is I was like, one and four women miscarry. It's like, you know, the conversation is better now that we have about it. So I was like, okay. Yeah, it's like a risk of being pregnant. Like, I will say it was a little late because there was a heartbeat and then there wasn't. Like so now I know that something

happened, but back then when it first happened, like no one was worried. Like my doctors, everyone was like, this could be a genetic abnormality. Like there were no signs of anything. I had no conditions. I had already been tested for everything normal that everyone gets tested for. Yeah. So it was not alarming. And so I was like, okay. And so like, it was devastating. Like, don't get me wrong. I mean, I have like my whole journey of that and I did a bunch of therapy and I was stated and, you know, Paul and I both had to walk through that together. But Carmela was so little that she didn't actually know. So she was like, like, I wasn't even showing yet when I, when I miscarried. So that's also very important to note because it was easy to just be like,

okay, let's move forward. And then the pandemic happened. So now we're in March of 2020. And I ended up getting pregnant again. And I was not super scared. I was like, well, miscarriage is a, you know, a common thing now. And my body was fine and all the testing was normal. So maybe this will just be fine, you know? And the chances of that are very high. A lot of people miscarry and then have a really successful pregnancy right after. So I was not super worried, but I was in our house.

We lived in New Jersey. We had moved out of New York City. And we moved to a house in New Jersey just like 30 minutes away. It was a very old house. It was beautiful, but it was really like 200 years old. And we moved there, and it was kind of nice that we were there during the pandemic because we weren't stuck in Manhattan. We were in this house. We were in lockdown.

So we were in it for 168 days while I was pregnant with our third pregnancy. Nothing was wrong with me physically. I did all my testing. It was hard in the pandemic with like Paul couldn't come and, you know, everyone's wearing masks and all that. But we got through it. And every single test of mine was fine. And every checkup I had was typical normal, fine, everything fine. And then in October of 2020, I went and got my 30-week anatomy scan.

And that's when they found like there was an issue. And we're talking about my daughter, Rosie, now. And so she had this, like, intestinal issue, but everybody said that she would be okay. She would get surgery when she was born. I met with the surgeon. There was like a 10-day period where even though we were now on high alert and I was on a high risk, you know, I moved to a high-risk. you know, I moved to a high-risk pregnancy. There are so many things that could have happened where she'd be fine.

Like they were more convinced that she'd be fine than that she would not be fine. And so for two weeks, I was being monitored and everything. And then she passed away. It was November 23rd, 2020, and I just stopped feeling her move. And we went into the hospital and it was confirmed that she had died. And so I gave birth to her on November 24th. And it was the hardest experience of my whole life, being in the hospital with Paul, going through that.

There's a lot I can say about that, you know, trigger warning. It's like, you know, it was really devastating. It was the saddest thing for even everyone in the hospital. Like I just remember it was like the worst thing. And also it was the most I've ever been reached out to at the same time. So it was like, you know, now I'm four years from it. So I can talk about it a lot. but I was so loved during that, like more than my whole career.

So like I like to say like sometimes like I was so celebrated, you know, in 2010 and 2011 and all this amazing stuff. But the amount of love I got in 2020 when I lost Rosie was 10 times more than that. Like everyone on earth was there for us. I remember the day that you like shared about it. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, it was awful.

And also so, you know, heartwarming that people carried us through that. And then that taught me so much because I refused to believe that nothing was wrong. I had all the testing done for Rosie and for me and for my husband. And they said all of our labs came back normal. And that's when I refused to believe it. And I was like, okay, no, you know, I need to investigate. I need to like go on my own investigation, which I think is a huge part of my story, is like advocating for yourself, not believing that, you know, everything's okay.

if it doesn't feel right, you know? And so I went on this journey where I decided to do my own testing. I met with this doctor nearby here, this natural path doctor. I moved back to L.A. I was like, there's doctors in L.A. that will sit with me. My OBGYN is amazing. She sat with me for two hours. We went through all my paperwork. And she's the one that said to me, which I'll never forget, they get mad at me when I do this, but I'm going to test you for a blood clot. like now, like I still think about that moment because, you know, I had so many questions in that moment. Like, first of all, who's they? Who gets mad at you? What do you mean? Why is this not? You know, but I was also just like, okay, like I was trying to get to the bottom of what happened.

Yeah. And so I went back later to talk to her about that. But what happened was I tested positive for antifosophilipid syndrome, which is a blood clotting disease that apparently was the cause of my miscarriage at 11 weeks and was the cause of my miscarriage with Rosie. Really? And I, learn this information which you would think would make me feel a little bit better. But what I also learned at the same time was it was preventable with blood thinner if I were to take blood thinner. And so all women that tests for this can take blood thinner and when they get pregnant and then they can have a baby who's alive. So to me, this was like a life changing moment for me as a mom, as a woman. And now for the rest of my life because I'm now like full activist in every possible way for this. I actually have a round table in Washington, D.C. on May 7th where I'm like, I'm going to

make this a law. Like I've been working on this since this moment. So since the moment I found out, which was January 2021, I have been working tirelessly because I just want so bad to to like do this in honor of Rosie and like save babies forever, like forever. Like we're going to save millions and millions and millions of baby and it won't be me. It'll be for Rosie. And like her little tiny life will live like such a big purpose. And I feel so grateful to get to do that because a lot of people don't in this scenario. And a lot of people have been through. what I've been through and they didn't know this or they don't know this and they're still going through it.

So it became this moment for me where I was like, music's amazing. I will write that forever. I love singing. But like all of a sudden I felt like my biggest purpose was this. And so I spent from 2021 to 2022 healing my body because I found out that that very old house that I was living in had a ton of mold. And I had mold poisoning, which caused the antiphosphosphalipid syndrome in me. So that also is like, it's wild.

Yeah, the way you get blood clots is different for everybody. It could be the food you're eating, the water you're drinking, the environment you're in. It's a pretty, like, deep issue that, like, is different for everyone. Regardless, though, it's important to just know you have it because then you can treat it. How everybody gets it is different. For me, it was mold. So I did mold detox. And then I had this mission to have another baby.

I mean, in my mind, Carmelah at the time, was almost three. We had a nursery for Rosie. She knew she was about to be a big sister. I had an eight and a half a month pregnant belly. There was no getting through that without, you know, crushing her spirits. And so, and teaching her about death. Like, it was so hard and awful, which comes full circle of why she's done therapy.

We do it with her. Like, it was like, you know, it was very hard, but I feel grateful that I had tools. I knew what to do. I had a great team of people. I reached out to. I was like, help me help her. Dr. Becky Kennedy's like the biggest, you know, favorite mom, um, gentle parent Instagram account, doctor, woman, author online. And like, she literally wrote me the script of what to say to Carmela when I got home. I wrote to her in the hospital. I wrote to big little feelings in the hospital. They told me what to say. Like people were

so, again, the most helpful and loving they've ever been in my whole life. And I learned what to say to Carmelah through asking for help. And so this all led to then me healing my body. I spent a whole year doing that, doing mold detoxes and, you know, infrared saunas and vitamin IVs and like clearing out my system and like doing everything I could possibly do to get well. Yeah. And then I got pregnant with our double rainbow magic baby pixie.

So I do love that this story has a happy ending. And again, this is, sorry, this is one very long answer to your question of motherhood, It's like the amount of layers is insane. Carmelah became the big sister she was meant to be in October of 2022. Pixie came into the world. I took blood thinner. She came out completely healthy and well. And she now is two and a half.

And now I have like, I mean, they share a room. They're best friends. Carmela's seven going on 17. But Pixie's two and a half. She's hilarious. She's like the best spirit. She says, I'm a double rainbow angel baby. I'm a double rainbow angel baby. Like she walks around saying it all the

time. Carmela tells her all about Rosie. We have like Rosie's cremation box in our living room with little Mickey ears on it. She's a part of our family. Carmela corrects everyone when they say like, oh, you have one sister. She says, no, I have two. And, you know, it's really hard what we walk through. But like I feel a sense of purpose to share that one, we walked through it. Two, I walked through it sober. I don't know how I did that. I can't take full. credit. I asked everyone for help again. I was like, you know, I went to meetings, I went to therapy, I did trauma therapy, all those things. But three, also I learned what this was and I'm going to make this change absolutely. All the women and people I'm working with, no one has said no. Like, I just have

to get into Washington and like make this a law where like every woman gets tested for this blood clotting thing when they get pregnant. And it's that simple. Just put it in the prenatal testing instead of after two losses. Because that for some reason is the protocol. And now that I know what two losses looks like for a family, you know, at 11 weeks and at, you know, 33 weeks, like let me stand in front of this council, you know, in Congress and tell them. You know, that's like, I'll tell you what it's like, you don't want anyone going through this if they don't have to. So I think that that's all that needs to sort of be said. And then we're going to change it. And then hopefully, you know, women don't have to go through this. And until then, I just share about it word of mouth.

I did People magazine, I did Good Morning America. You know, I've like taking it as a, as a, you know, a part of my life now to really share about it all the time and, and help other people. And it feels really wonderful that we can do that. And that really feels like her, her purpose. Yeah. Thank you for sharing all of that. Yeah. I'm super excited for that because we have a friend who had pregnancy lost and come to find out.

It was because she had this. No way. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. She took blood dinners and then got pregnant. has the cutest little baby boy ever. There you go.

But if she would have known that, she wouldn't have had to. Why don't they want you? Like, why did that woman say to you they hate when I, or they don't want me to tell why don't they want you? Well, I think it's complicated. Here's, I mean, I've spent years trying to sort of decode this because I would like to believe it was an oversight, an accidental oversight that they don't actually like, you know, not want us to have this information because that doesn't feel correct.

But what I think happens is if you test everyone, I think it's going to point to some things that are wrong in our world that are going to affect a lot of people. Do you know what I mean? So like for me, I think I got it from mold. A lot of people have mold in their house. A lot of people are, you know, we're realizing now a lot of the chemicals that we eat. A lot of the things in our environment like aren't, aren't okay. So I feel like it's maybe she said they get mad at me because it would be breaking protocol in California. I think it's three losses that you are supposed to have before you get tested for this.

So I had two, and that was planning for me. You know what I mean? Obviously too many for anyone. Yeah. But some states it's two. Some states it's three. So I wonder if that's why my doctor said that or like her initial reaction was, you know, I always test for this like maybe she tests for it so often and it's not positive that it's a

waste of time or money or whatever. But it's one blood test. It's one file of blood. Like it would cost $45 at a clinic if you just went and tested it for yourself. So to be included in the blood panel that you already do, like when you find out you're pregnant, you do a huge panel with like 14 different tests. So my advocacy is like, hey, just add it, add it to that. And then you're not paying any extra for it.

But I think what it will reveal is that like, you know, maybe we're sicker than we really know. And like, again, that's sort of, I'm trying to stay sort of out of that topic because that feels a little bit too big to handle right now. And my whole point is just to like get women the test so they can choose to like take blood thinner or not, depending on their, you know, level of stickiness. It's like everybody has a, it's like a spectrum. So I think what's happening is like the more unhealthy we are, the stickier our blood becomes.

And then we're more prone to having a blood clot or more of these, these things are popping up due to the research that I did, I found. out 55% of multiple miscarriages are due to blood clots. The first reason of miscarriage is endometriosis. So that's a whole other thing. Yeah. Which is also not tested for and the, da, da, da, da, da, the whole other thing. Yeah.

But for me, I'm like, okay, laser focused and doing this for Rosie. It's just this test. Add it to the prenatal screening. Let women take blood thinner and have babies that don't die. You know, like that's all I want for the world. But I do think over time it will continue to reveal bigger issues, you know, about our health and our wellness. I'm curious to know what was your conversation with Carmelah about Rosie when you got back home.

Oh my gosh. It was so, so profound. So what happened was I told you we got a script from Dr. Becky Kennedy. And I had asked the, you know, the neonatal nurses, I asked like three different doctors. There were like two social workers that came in to talk to us. like what got me through that whole experience was that I was going to go home to Carmela. Like Carmela, I can't wait to tell her when she's older that like how much she carried Paul and I through that because she was so important to us.

And I'm actually grateful that we had her at that time, you know, because I feel like some people go through pregnancy loss without having a kid yet. And that is so, so hard. I can imagine that because Carmela was our reason to get through it. And so they said, you know, I could go home sooner if I delivered vaginally instead of a C-section. Because in my mind, I was like, just like give me drugs and knock me out. And she was like, well, I can do that, but like you'll go home to Carmela sooner if you do it this way. And then I'm so glad I didn't get checked out.

And I was able to hold Rosie and meet her and say goodbye. You know, like so many things like all tied to doing it for Carmela that helped Paul and I have, you know, a more, I don't know, fulfilling experience through all this. pain. And so I asked what to say, and I remember we were on the phone with our parents when we were driving home from the hospital. And both our moms were at our house. Our extended family, it was Thanksgiving. It was the week of Thanksgiving. So everyone was already there. And and so we said to them like, hey, you guys have to hide because we're going to come in the door and be really strong. Like we're going to not be crying because we don't want to scare her. But, you know, we're coming home without the baby. Carmell knows him in the hospital. She thinks she's

getting a baby. Yeah. So. So she's up in her playroom with the nanny, who is my best friend, Meredith, and my lifelong friend now because she was our Mary Poppins. And so Meredith was strong enough to hang out with Carmela because Meredith had lost her brother. And so she had, like, people who know grief, no grief. Like, I now know it's a language. And so, like, Meredith was like, I got this because my mom and my mother-in-law were like, we can't do this. Like, we're not strong enough. So we told our moms to, like, go in another room, please.

we don't want to see you first or we're going to we're going to lose it you know and rightfully into their arms we went right after you know but like at this moment i remember having like laser focus and it was like okay we're going to walk in the house we're going to go up to carmel's room meredith's going to walk out and we're going to sit down on the floor we're going to talk to her and we just have to get through this and then let the rest unfold and so we did and i'm proud of paul and i and we were holding it together and carmel was like looking at us a little funny because she could sense something was up. She's such an empath.

She's so deep. She's like, I don't know, a million years old, this girl. And so she's looking at us and she's like playing and, you know, we're probably holding our breath weird. You know what I mean? Like we probably weren't very normal looking, but we held it together for her. And I said exactly what the doctor said to say, which is, honey, like, you know, you're here and your body works and you're healthy. And daddy's here and his body works and he's healthy. and mommy's here and my body works and I'm healthy,

but the baby came and her body didn't work and she died. And then we didn't say anything. And we sort of watch it kind of go in her brain and she like continues to play. And we're holding our breath. I mean, I'll never forget this moment. And she just looks at us and we're looking at her. And she goes, don't worry, mom and dad.

You'll have another baby and her body will work. And we just lost it. I mean, all three of us are crying. We're all holding each other. I mean, it was one, like, what? She was two and a half. Wow. Well, almost three, but still, like, what?

I still cannot believe that that came to her little mind to say that to us and to comfort us in that moment. Paul and I both were jaw dropped. And then we, you know, sort of breakdown. We're all holding each other. And I tell her, like, you know, mommy and daddy are going to be really sad and it's okay to be sad. And then we, like, talked more and more. And truthfully, I didn't say much more about. Rosie until the months went on.

Carmelah was such a thinker that she would come up with questions and be like, so, like, out of nowhere. And I was ready. I was ready to answer her with the truth because I learned that you keep to the truth and you keep it short and you don't over explain. And then you answer their questions. And I feel like that really works with Carmela. And honestly, over the past four years, like, she'll still come up with questions that we

talk about and talk through. And like, you know, why doesn't she have a gravestone in Philadelphia? And I'm like, well, because I want her here with us. And I don't want to, you know, her. in someplace we don't live and, you know, just little things like that where, like, you know, she's wrapping her head around it. But she really, she really said that. And then I really believed her. And the entire time that I was working with doctors and, you know, holistic doctors and all these different medicine doctors and all these people to help my body work again, like,

I just had Carmela in my mind. I was like, Carmel said, we're going to do it. And, and she was right. Yeah, crazy. I can't imagine what like the toll of losing a child takes on your marriage because you know you're both trying to process and grieve this situation. What how was that on your marriage? Oh gosh. It was brutal. It was it was so hard. But I will say at the same time because I'm,

I mean, Paul and I are still together. And I feel like we're breaking like stereotypes and we are breaking odds at being together because there is like a really crazy statistic of like 90% of people who lose a child like don't stay married. And I understand like completely why. Like I understand like it was so difficult to get through that together because it happened in my body. And so I couldn't relate to him. He didn't know how to help me because I mean after she had died like I had postpartum. I had my milk come in.

Like there were so many things that happened like to my body for like the next two years that he couldn't help me with. So he felt helpless. I was mad at him, you know. But again, we had Carmela who again was like the carrier of us through the whole thing because it was like, well, all right.

Well, we have to figure it out. We can't do this, this and this in front of her. So we'll do this in therapy. We'll talk about this in therapy. We'll just make it through to the next thing. Okay. Maybe we'll stay together until Christmas.

Okay. Like there were moments where we were not sure. that we were going to make it. And then in my mind, I was also like, but we got to have more. Like, you know what I mean? And like, so I had moments where I was like, I can't stay married to this person.

And then I was like, but wait, we got through this together. Like, so I would have moments of clarity through the grief because I also feel like you're battling with grief at the same time. And so like we were grieving and I could differentiate sometimes when it was grief talking, when it was me talking, when it was him. and so we did couples therapy consistently for about two years to try to stay together.

And we did. I mean, honestly, like, then we got pregnant with Pixie. Then it was like a whole, you know, then you're anxious, the entire pregnancy. It was like a whole other beast, you know, to deal with because like every day was scary. But then you're like, well, I'm, you know, optimistic. And he's the best guy. I mean, like, don't tell him I said that. We will.

We will. But he is so wonderful. and positive and bright that like he carried you know me through that and then now seeing him as a dad to both the girls like it's it's made our whole marriage come around like he loves you know watching me with them and i love watching him with them and i guess our marriage like entered a new season at some point where we like we like settled into it but again like i said earlier like you guys are married and enjoying each other and learning each other before you have a kid is so good but paul and i didn't do that so But when we got pregnant with Carmela, we were dating, and then we got married, we lived together,

and then all of a sudden this infertility came and, like, you know, knocked us over. Yeah. And then life and pandemic and, you know, everything. There's just the world, you know. But, like, I guess we got really strong. And I kind of didn't notice until we were already there. And then we just, like, woke up and we were like, oh, wow, we did it. We made it.

And, of course, life's going to keep being hard. You know, I don't sound like a, yeah. full in any way, but I feel like this type of thing that we walked through together was so hard that we're like, we're a team. We're a team now. Yeah. What's like the, I would say, biggest thing that you've learned advice you would give for a someone dealing with pregnancy loss, but also be someone who has a close friend or family member that is going through pregnancy loss and they don't really know how to approach that. Okay, well, I'll start with that. So if you know someone who is struggling with fertility, there's a couple things that I would say, just my experience. One is, you know, if they lose the baby, whether it's an embryo, a fetus, any time in the pregnancy, you know, it matters and it's a big deal. Like I think whatever gestation it is, like I feel like a lot of people are quick to be like it's not a big deal. It's the first trimester. Like I learned like that sure, even though I've experienced both and losing Rosie was so much harder. It's the being pregnant and honoring that little life, I think is still really important. So being gentle the way you speak about it, the mom wants to talk about it. I haven't met one person who has gone through grief that they didn't want to talk about the person that they're grieving.

You know what I mean? And it's funny because in our culture, we're weird. Like everybody gets weird about death or like doesn't, you know, I felt like the grim. Reaper when I'd walk in the room and everyone looks down. It doesn't want to look at me. No, I want to talk about Rosie. I want to talk about my experience. So most people do.

They think, oh, I won't bring it up so they're not upset. I think that's an old theory, and I think we should move on. I think whoever is going through it wants to talk about it because you want to honor that version of you. I also think food is 10 times better than flowers. So I learned going through what I went through, like, please send me pasta. Like, I don't want to cook. I don't want to order food.

I don't, you know, you're home and you're grieving and like, it's just so nice when people feed you. So I feel like that's a, that's a trick and a helpful tip. Yeah. And then to women who are going through it, gosh, I mean, like I said, I got carried through the first time through asking for help, like, and through taking the help. I think it's really hard to take help. Yeah.

Especially because we're women, we're taught now, like we're even, we are independent. we can do this, we can do anything, which is true. Yeah. Because I'm also that. But like, I don't know. I do think that there's something really special about asking for help from other women, too. Like if it doesn't have to be, you know, anyone you even know. I mean, there were people that I didn't know at all who were like telling me their story.

And I really took it. Like, I really listened or I really felt hopeful about trying again. And like, you know, I just feel like that's really important that you talk to us. other people about it because other people have gone through it. And like there's nothing, you know, there is such a difference between feeling totally alone in a situation, which can be in any situation, whether it's getting sober or having a baby or losing, you know, your pregnancy or fighting with your spouse. I mean, any of it.

It's like, oh my God, life is so messy. Why are we not all continuously sharing about how messy we are? You know what I mean? Instead, we're like, look at my highlight reel. Yeah. Like, here on Instagram, I'm the best. Like, okay, like, that's not helpful. You know, like, so I'm sad a little bit for the generation younger than us because that's all they know.

Like, at least we remember MySpace era where it's like, no, we had one single tier and we were like, you know, we were not well in our 20s, you know? And like, here we are now and we can talk about it. So I'm grateful for our generation of like talking about it. And I hope that it will continue because I feel like that is the, that's the quickest way to feel better is to feel not alone. Yeah. You know, and that someone else knows exactly what I've been through, and you find that person. Yeah. That's so good.

I mean, yeah, that's the whole reason we have this podcast is, you know, I can't imagine how many people are going to listen to this and be like, oh, like, you've already said so many, like, helpful tools and, like, advice. I'm excited to watch this back. Listen to it again. Thank you. Okay. This is time for the fun part.

Go ahead, fan girl. A thousand years. Okay. I mean, I'm a, I'm a twilight girl. I, so am I. I love the books. I love this for both of you by the way. I remember when this all happened and I like, I've been, I've been a fan of you guys as a couple.

Oh my gosh. Stop. Since you got together. Yeah. Yeah. So fun. So, yes, I was, I was Team Edward, which we have to get that out of the way. Yeah, it's fine.

Same. Sorry. We're over it. Yeah, we moved on. But I'm curious. So did you write the song for the movie or did you already have this song? No. I wrote it.

So. Oh gosh, where do we even go with this? So I am such a big Twilight fan. Like I read the books when they came out. And I even had the four book covers framed on my wall. Okay. Like when I had an apartment in Hollywood, I had nothing else. Like I literally had a keyboard, what my friends called a dog bed, because I couldn't even afford a bed.

And then I just, but I thought that the book covers were so important that I should go to CVS and buy four frames and then put them on my wall. So like, I'm going to have to like send you a photo so you can like like have. a photo reference. Yeah. Because I have a photo of it. Because no one will believe me. Like, that's wild. You know, and I'm like, no, I absolutely love these books. And so when I signed my deal with Atlantic, this is like, it's funny. I don't have to be embarrassed because of, it's us, you know, but like normally I'm like, uh, so when I signed with Atlantic, I remember walking into their offices and, you know, I'm 23 and, um, they're showing off their like, you know, gold records all over the wall. And it's like, Aretha Franklin and like all these amazing artists. And all I see is

Twilight soundtrack. And I'm like, wait, I was like, you guys do this, you know? And they're like, yeah, but I mean, we also do, you know? And I was like, oh my God, oh my God. So like, in my mind, I was like, whoa, like I might be able, like if I sign with Atlantic, like, maybe I'll be able to be a part of this, my favorite books, my favorite franchise. You know what I mean? Like, it really was in my mind. So much so that every time I would like go to New York and I'd have a meeting with the label, I'd be like, so, you know, Twilight. Anything going on with Twilight? Like, what's up with, Because a few movies had been out by then. Yes.

And I saw Twilight when it first came out. I waited in line to see New Moon with literally kids, like, who were way younger than me. Like, I remember they were in their school uniforms and I was like standing in line like at Universal City Walk. Like, you know, I was like, I got to like bring a chair and like sit there. Like I'll get a bad seat. Like it was literally like. You could have been in line to see New Moon with Christina Perry. I did the ones where it was like they show, they would show the movie prior.

Yes. And it was like. You mean like the night before? Like the Thursday night? Yeah. Well, so you would go and then like they would play, let's say like it was four new moon. They would play twilight. Oh, that's cool.

So like you were sit by, you know, by the fifth movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Literally just a movie marathon the entire day. Oh, my God. I love that. That's what I did for literally all. Amazing. I also saw Eclipse.

I have the movie sub for Eclipse. I feel like this was all still before I got a record deal. So it was really just the breaking dawns that were yet to come out. Okay. And so I knew I had a chance, you know. But I also didn't know, like, what that means. I'd never written a song for a movie. I didn't know how it, like, I thought maybe a million people submit songs for movies. Like, I didn't know it was going to happen.

Yeah. I didn't even have, like, a confidence that was going to happen because I was just starting. You know what I didn't know if, like, they would, because the soundtracks were really good. Yeah, the soundtracks had amazing. Yeah. I mean, genuinely, like, those were the soundtracks you wanted to be on. And I was like, well, maybe I need to like earn more of like a career before I get chosen for something like that. Like, I had no idea what I was walking into. But my manager called me one day and was like, hey, do you want to go screen Breaking Dawn Part 1 and write a song for the wedding? And I just like flat out, fell on the ground, made some sound he said he'd never heard before. I was like completely like, yes, oh my God. I was freaking out. So this was, oh my gosh,

I want to say it was June 2011. Like it was, I went to some studio, I don't even know where, where we watched a screening of it, but it was like still so not finished that there were men holding like screen like like little wolf heads do you know what I mean it was like green screen like you're in like the yeah so you saw a rough cut I saw a rough cut and I it's so funny because I brought David Hodges who's a songwriter and dear friend of mine and at the time he and I were writing a lot of songs for my album yeah and I was like you have to come with me and he was like I'm good and I was like no no no you have to come with me because if you're going to write this with me you have to have seen it you know what I mean and he was like okay so he's like sitting I just remember

it was like a lot of people were like on their phone and and looked like very businessy and I was in the front row like like crying like literally and they're like who is this person like has she snuck in here from like the audience you know what I mean like it was like I didn't like there was not one part of me that was cool like it was not cool about it I was like this is this is the coolest thing that's ever happened to me like this is the best day of my whole life like I was like full fan girl energy only yeah and did you know it when you were watching the screening, did you, like, know you had the gig yet? Or was it? No, no, no, no. I was supposed to watch it, take notes on my phone, and write something

for the wedding. And then the studio will see if they like it. Yep. Okay. And I was like looking around and I feel like there were other artists there too. So it's like everyone is there. And they say to you before it starts like, okay, we need a song for those spots that have songs in them. Do you I mean. So then you could be like, okay, and like make a note like for whatever scene, you know, but for me specifically, they said, we want you to write the song for the wedding. Like, that's what the producer and, you know, whoever at the label, like everyone was like, oh, Christina can do that, you know? Yeah. And so what's so crazy is so, you know, I watched the wedding scene and I'm like, got it. I mean, I literally describe it in the song, which is so funny

because like, you know, everyone, whatever, you know, happens later, like everyone in the world gets married to it, but like I'm picturing Edward and Bella the whole time. I got the book out. I'm sitting. I'll never forget. I go back to David Hodges' house after we see the film and I was like, we're going to write it right now. We wrote it within like two days. And I had the book out and I'm referring to the book. And he's like, maybe it's this. I'm like, no, Bella would not do that. And he was like, okay. Like I was like so like protective of like the integrity of like what this wedding like felt like when I watched it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And so we, we, We wrote it. It's the version you still hear. Like, that's the, we added, like, really nice strings

when it got chosen. Yeah. I feel like the demo sounded just like the one that came out. And we send it in. And I don't hear anything for a couple months, I feel like, and a dear friend of mine who, do you know sleeping at last? Oh, yes. Right. Of course you do. Well, his name's Ryan O'Neill. Yeah. And he's, like, a really good friend of David Hodges. So he became a friend of mine later. But he and David were really good friends and he reached out to David and was like I booked the twilight wedding and so that's how we found out that we didn't which is interesting but he was like my songs called a hundred years and we were like oh our songs called a thousand years and he was like oh oh I'll change mine and he changed it to turning page what because he says I'm in a hundred years

but like no I'd weighed yeah a million more for you anyway so it he that truthfully happened and we were like we didn't even know if we got it like you don't have to change you know the title of yours and he's like no no he's like the nicest human on earth in hopes that you both could I hopes that we both could get it yeah he was like I'll change mine so he changed his attorney page we kept ours a thousand years and then the label calls and says okay we have good news and bad news the bad news is you didn't get the wedding we're using this other guy and we're like we know. And then the good news is we've got you the credits.

So it's like, you know, potentially could be a single. And I was like, oh, I mean, first of all, best day of my life. Yeah. Second of all, cool. I don't care if it's in the freaking, you know, 32 seconds. Whatever you want. I was like, this is the best. This is all I dreamed of.

I wrote this on my letter to the universe. I went a song on the Breaking On Soundtrack. Like I didn't say where or, you know. And my manager is like, oh, I don't know about the credits. I'm like, please, it's fine. Then we find out. the next call was like just kidding Bruno Mars is going to go in the first

slide. It will rain because that's the single because Atlantic also does Bruno. So I was like, okay, he's definitely not a twi hard, but it's okay. And so they're like, Bruno's going to go first, you know, and he's going to be the first single. And my manager's so bummed. And I'm like,

dude, no, we're not being bummed here. I was like, there's no being bummed because this was my dream and it's happening and I don't care. I'm like, people will wait. It's the Twilight fans. They're all going to sit and watch the credit. cut to the premiere, no one's there. It was like literally the Bruno Mars, because I was there, and it was like me and all my friend David and Kelty

and we're all there. And there's a picture of me like sort of from behind and I'm like watching the credits, but like everyone had already gotten up, you know? So there was like this moment, which I think is really important for like the story of this song is like I was still so grateful. I was like not, I was not bummed about it.

I did not like, you know, take it as like an offense that like they didn't use it for, what they, you know, hired me for. I was just so stoked to be included and, like, so grateful to have this happen and, like, go to the premiere. I was like, this is crazy. Like, I had these four book covers framed on my wall. Like, like, hey, let's not forget.

You know what I mean? I was like always reminding everyone, like, the little fan girl of me is, like, having the best experience of my life. For sure. So what happens is that. So it comes out. It's the second credits. Everyone remembers it wrong.

It's like the Mandela effect. Like, everyone thinks a thousand years was in the wedding, which cracks me. me up because it was a wedding song. I did write it for Edward and Bella. I did make it a walt so that it would be chosen for the wedding. But like, you know, intuitively people just knew that that was a- I forgot until this moment that it was the credit song. Well, I feel like, yeah, I feel like we, so we just recently rewatched them because we've

been doing like a franchise thing. Yeah. And when the wedding scene came and it was turning page, I was like, oh. And then like, the movie just kept going. So then I didn't think about it. But then, but I mean, I don't want to give away the word it ends up where it ends up being used. Sure. Well, right.

So what? I love that. I'm like, tell me what happens next. Yeah. The curtain call, right? Are you talking about? Yeah. So, well, this is why I also point out that like, I was happy with it, what happened.

And then what happened next is what like no one could possibly have imagined or dreamed, including me, which is they, they took Bruno off, the radio. and they were like, we're going with a thousand years because the fans are obsessed with this song. And I was like, what? Because at the time, too, it was like 2011. So there's maybe no Spotify. Like, you know, they were just going based off of like album sales, single sales, like whatever. So the label's like, yeah, the fans are freaking out about this one.

We're going to radio. And that's how they say it. Like, taking it to radio. And I was like, cool. Like, whoa, you know, great news. So that comes out on the radio. It does really well. but the fans like, you know, how they are,

just was like, all of a sudden they're like, this is our, like, swan song. Like, this is our anthem. Yeah. And I was like, cool. They knew I was a Twyhard. Like, so then they started putting me up for all this press. They're like, okay, we want you to talk about it, you know?

And I was like, I can talk about it all day. So then all of a sudden, I was on like a private plane with, you know, Ashley and like, you know, some of the cast. Okay. And they have me going around doing, they're like doing like a Q&A. and then I come out and play a thousand years and like open for them, you know, and they're like, so all of a sudden, like I'm on, like in this world. You're like an honorary cast member.

Literally, okay? But I was like sweating. And I remember being on this private plane. And this is before I was like friends with all you guys. So I was like, I'm sitting on a plane and I'm like, don't call Ashley Alice. Do not call Jasper Jackson or Jackson Jasper, whatever it is. And I'm like, and like, so I'm like, I'm just not going to talk to anyone. Like I was just sitting in the back of the plane with my guitar player like doodoo-loodoo.

And so all of a sudden I get like thrown into this world accidentally. I mean, I think they were just excited that I was excited about talking about it. But then the way that it all started to work out. And so then that's when the director was like, I want to do a seven-minute version of the song. Can you re-record it and do a full orchestra? And then we're going to surprise the fans with a seven-minute curtain call and have everybody at the end of the movie. And it's going to be this. Oh, yeah.

Got it. And so that was like everyone, all the fans' favorite part, you know, because it was like, such a cool moment. And then I was like, whoa. I was like, I went from being the second credit song to like the last seven minutes of the final film.

Yeah. And then what happens next is like, I can't even around my head around it still. It's like then everyone got married to it for like still. Like it was like the number one wedding song. Oh, I mean, I wanted to get married to it. I couldn't get married to it. Yeah.

That would have been a little weird. But I was, I was, well, thank you. I appreciate that. Well, honestly, like all of 2012, 13, 14, 15, 16, like it was all the number one wedding song of the year every year at like beating out Elvis and like John legend I mean me John Legend and Ed Shear and all joke around about like when we're old we're

just going to do wedding tours because like we were like the top three songs yeah and uh and so all of a sudden it becomes this wedding song which is awesome and I'm like I'm like blown away by the gift that keeps on giving kind of vibe and everyone's telling me and I'm just like thank you and then Spotify and then it's like a billion streams and then a billion views on YouTube and it's like amazing, amazing, amazing. But then it just gets even crazier when everyone starts getting married, like the people that got married to it

start having babies. And they're like, oh, this is my baby song. This is like, I'm going to sing this song to my baby because I love them forever, you know. And then I have a baby, and I'm singing to Carmela. And I'm like, well, actually, like, to Atlantic. I'm like, I don't really want to do a pop album. Like, can I do a lullaby album?

Because now I'm a mom and, like, my whole life is different. And I sing all these songs to Carmela. they were like, I guess, like, they were so not into it. So then I do a lullaby version. Yeah, they're like, literally, they didn't even let it count as an album. They were like, it's a, you know, specialty album. Like, it won't even count towards your record deal. And I was like, whatever, I just want to do it.

So I make songs for Carmelah, and I put a thousand years a lullaby. So I made it a lullaby. Yes. And then that becomes like the tic-toced, you know, the most ticot like babies, puppies, kittens, like all of a sudden, everyone that got married, when I got married, when I got married, it's now having babies, when I'm having babies, they're playing the video. Like, it just kept evolving as I get older. It's like, but the fans of the movie are my age.

So, like, they're all getting married when I did. They're all having babies when I did. And now the fact that I'm even, I mean, I'm here promoting my kids book up a thousand years because it has taken on a whole new form again. And it's a picture book. And it's like, of course it is. And it's my girls, like in the book. Like, it has just been this unbelievable.

journey for, but like this song feels like it's had its own, like, destiny all along and like, I just didn't get in the way. I was like, let's do it. And I was so excited for it. And like, the twilight season of it is amazing. The wedding season of it, amazing. The baby season of it. I'm in that right now. It's amazing. Like, I don't know if it, I don't want it to ever end. Like, you know, I don't know if it will. It might not. Literally, like, people played at their funerals. Like, it's like literally just this, this thing that I'm, you know, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm, grateful to be the vessel too, you know, but like it's just at the end of the day, it's a song about vampires. Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny. I had chills. I would say for 99% of that story.

It just, I just kept getting better. The fan of me was just like, so excited. Dude, same. Like, I can't believe it. I literally can't believe it. I just love that for you so much. Thank you. I feel like there's just a lot of, like, foreshadowing with that whole franchise and life. Like, you end up having this insane song. I love the franchise. I. end up marrying you. Like, it's just, there's a lot of, like, precursors that really, really took off. You never know. Well, it also did a lot of good things for other artists, too.

Like, all the artists that were on the soundtracks, I mean, it was just like a, yeah, it was like a blessing for everybody in, you know, whatever way they were involved. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. It was big. The Twilight fans are still, I think, the best fans of all time because they really made it, you know, the biggest. Yeah.

And the love for it is still so strong. I just met someone the other day who runs something for some Twilight something. And she was like, can you send a video to the fans? And I was like, sure. I was like, hey, Christina Perry here. Like there's equally passionate. Yeah. And also there's like a resurgence.

It's like cool now, right? Like Olivia Rodriguez is like wearing Edward Cullen in ears. And I'm like, girl, I was like, welcome to the club. You know what I mean? Like. So it feels like it's just like doesn't go out of style, which is good for us, I guess. For sure. Yeah.

Oh my gosh. Well, your book is out. Yeah. Yeah. Congratulations. Thank you. We'll leave a link for it, everyone. Okay.

Thank you. I'm excited. But where did that idea come from to make it a book? Well, truthfully, that sort of progression that happened, because after I had done a thousand years lullaby, I ended up making two more lullaby albums, one for my daughter Rosie and then one for my daughter Pixie. So I have three lullaby albums that all, funny enough, did really well. Then my label loves now because actually my second most stream song is You Are My Sunshine,

which I clearly did not write. But like, I don't know who did. from like the earliest songbook ever. It's like, you know, but my version of it went viral with like LeBron James and then it was like, um. A Bron James. Yeah, there's a whole meme on, I kind of don't know. I definitely hear the song.

I know it went viral. Yeah. Well, I think it started with LeBron James. Honestly. There was like, they would sing it to him at his games. Like there was like a whole thing. And then funny enough from that, I think that's how Nike picked it for like their commercial because they were like, oh, we know the song from LeBron.

I don't know. So like, again, like all these things kind of have happened from these lullabies where my friends are like, wow, you really plan this well. I'm like, dude, I did not plan anything. Like, I had babies and I made songs for them and like that's it. And like the, but, but again, I'm in this sweet spot of my career where everybody listening to my music's already in the same season as me, you know, mostly also. So I feel like after doing lullabies, I kind to love the kid space. Like, I really love being in it. And I do so many things with kids stuff. So it made a lot of sense. Like Penguin Books came out, uh, approached me and wanted to do a book. And I was like, absolutely. Now I have like four different ideas for what I want to do next. And I'm doing all

the music and lyrics for a new kid show that's coming out. And like, I'm just like in the kid world right now. And I'm just kind of loving it. Because I get to be a mom. I get to see my girls every day. And I get to do stuff that's like, you know, related to like what I'm actually doing. Like I'm actually reading my kids' picture books every night. So like to have my own and to like, you know, have the world have it too. If you like this song, you're probably going to like the book. If you don't even know the song, you might like the book too because it's just really

cute. The drawings are gorgeous. The story is about, you know, the little baby is born. And then like, you know, she kind of grows up and I send her off to school. But like she knows how much she's loved. And it's like about, you know, building that love, that relationship, the eternal love, you know, with your child. But like, it's, it's just so.

appropriate and like authentic. I'm just actually living this life. And like the little girl in the book is Carmela. So we started it when she was that little. So like four years ago was like when we came up with the idea. Yeah. And it's taken this long to come out. So now Pixie is the same age as the little girl in the book with pigtails and bangs.

They look like copy and paste anyway. So Carmela knows it's her, but Pixie thinks it's her. You know? And so like it's just so cute. It's just like my life just keeps getting cuter and cuter. And I'm really, I'm here for it. Like, I've been through a lot. Yeah.

And I'm like absolutely loving this, like, very cute era of the life that I'm in. I like this chapter for you. Thanks, man. Yeah. Me too. So sweet. So sweet. Well, thanks for coming and hanging with us.

Thanks for having me. So excited I feeling got to meet you and you guys got to see each other again. Some fun little stories there. I know, I know, right? Let's hang out and watch Mary Poppins. I'm just not going to leave. I'm going to make you watch it right now. He's going to want to see your children.

He loves kids. Please. Oh, my God. Specifically. I mean, he loves children. but he wants a girl's really bad. Oh, it's the best. Let me tell you, it's the best thing in the whole world.

You guys going to do it. Don't rush, but do it. It's the best. Sign me up. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products

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