The Squeeze - Colleen Pelly: Mental Health In The Workplace

Episode Date: July 30, 2025

In this week’s episode, the Lautners sit down with Colleen Pelly, founder of The Linchpin Co., a company focused on building healthier, more human-centered workplaces! Colleen brings a wealth of insight on the intersection of mental health and the work environment, drawing from her experience as a small business owner, mental health advocate, and mom navigating postpartum life. She dives into what’s broken in the way most companies approach mental well-being, why burnout and disengagement are at an all-time high, and the common misconceptions organizations have when trying to support employee mental health. Colleen shares her perspective on psychological safety, what it really means, and how leaders can begin to foster it within their teams, as well as how redefining your strengths can help you thrive both at work and at home. She opens up about the tools and daily habits that keep her grounded, the importance of boundaries in a world where we’re constantly reachable, and how small, intentional moments can make a lasting impact.Be sure to follow The Linchpin Co. https://instagram.com/thelinchpinco/If you’re a business looking for help with hiring, we’d love to connect. Head to our contact page at thelinchpinco.com, and when you reach out, just select The Squeeze under “Where did you learn about us.” That’ll unlock 10% off your first search with us—our little way of saying thanks for tuning in. To email us your questions or share your story, you can reach out to [e-mail] sure to rate, review, and follow the podcast so you don't miss an episode! Plus, follow us on all of our socials:The SqueezeInstagram: https://instagram.com/thesqueeze/TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@thesqueezepodcastTay LautnerInstagram: https://instagram.com/taylautner/TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@mrstaylautnerAmazon Storefront https://urlgeni.us/amazon/FDXj7 Taylor LautnerInstagram: https://instagram.com/taylorlautner/TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@taylorlautnerTo learn more from The Lemons Foundation, follow https://instagram.com/lemonsbytay/ and visit lemonsbytay.comProduced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. You know what we need for you? What? We need to put a severance chip. Oh my gosh. So, hey, your work day's over. Okay. Boob.

Burnout and disengagement are at all time high. A lot of companies see mental health has like a checklist item. If we make a post during mental health awareness month, we offer yoga. Then we're great. We've created this ability to be reachable all the time. There's almost like an expectation that responsiveness is like rewarded. There's some companies where people try to like set those boundaries. and then it's like, well, Colleen responded to me at 10 p.m., so I'm going to promote her.

An email can wait a day. Like, no one's going to die if I don't get an offer letter out. That's something I've actually had to work on because I'm so used to... That's what I was going to say. You're a perform. Like, you want to perform. You want to do the best you can. We're all replaceable, and no one really cares.

Toughen up buttercup. Hello, lemon drops. Welcome back to another episode of The Squeeze. We are so excited for this episode because we're about to dive. into all things mental health and the workspace. And if you guys know my story at all, you know that mental health in the workspace is a big part of my story.

For those of you who don't know, I worked as a COVID nurse, and we were not really provided any form of mental health care as we were working as COVID nurses, which then, as a result, led to lots of burnout, PTSD, and all of the above. So that's why I'm so excited about this episode, and I think whatever your job is,

I think there's going to be something for you to relate to, whether you're a president of a company or you're a new employee somewhere. There's really going to be something that can help you wherever you're at. We're going to talk about lessons that can be learned from layoffs, finding balance that can prevent burnout, which is something that I really needed to know. Psychological safety in the workplace, redefining your strengths along with daily mental health tools, habits that are useful not only in the workspace, but more importantly, at home. So without further ado, I would love to introduce you lemon drops to Colleen. Hi. Welcome to the squeeze. Thank you so much.

You are our expert today of all things, mental health, workspace. And like I said, I'm truly just so excited because I think this is a topic that is so prevalent. What's the word I'm trying to say? Prevalent. Thank you. It's so prevalent today with people working through COVID. But also I feel like we just hear of conduct and people not caring for their employees.

employees mental health or even them trying to but maybe not knowing how to. Right. Or it's talked about and not actually action. Yes. Precisely. Or like in my experience, we were given, you know, like beach chairs as a thank you for our. Oh my goodness. Do you remember that when I came on with a beach chair? That was weird. When I was working, so I worked as a coven nurse when I was working. Amazing. There wasn't any form of mental health care. Or even anyone being like, hey, maybe, you know, get some mental health services. But this beach chair But this beach chair, they were doing these things, which God bless these hospitals, they had no clue what they were doing. But, no, I remember one day after my night shift, I walked down and there was just like a row of beach chairs.

They were handing out all of the staff. And I was like, what am I going to do with this? Maybe they were like, take it to the beach and have a mental health day. Yeah, they were like, yeah, the beach is nice for your mental health. On my zero days off when they were calling me in because we were so severely understaffed. We can laugh about it now. It's fine. We can laugh about it now.

We've done the therapy. We've done EMDR. We've moved on from it. But I'd kind of love for you to just share a little bit about who you are, who Lynchpin is as a company, and what inspired you to start it? Great question. Good starting point. Good opener. Yeah, it is a good opener.

So our tagline is like recruitment with purpose. And so at a super high level, we're a people operations group and consultancy firm. But our bread and butter, the core, is like hiring a recruitment. So companies bring us in. when they're looking to add to their teams. And this is kind of like entry level through executive level search. Yeah, and I wanted to create something that was sort of like people-first recruitment. We talk about why we started.

I think the shortest answer would be solving a problem I kept running into, which I think is where a lot of things come from. But I worked in-house for a long time, so like hiring directly for companies for a long time for over a decade before I started Lynchpin. And in that time, I partnered with a lot of external recruiting firms, so like people like Lynchman. And it just never landed for me. It sort of felt like there was always a disconnect.

It never felt human. It felt sort of like transactional, I guess is the right word. And never really felt like people cared about the candidate experience or what they were going through or really understanding culture or like what we're looking for. So it was actually my husband who was like, okay, well, then why don't you make it? So why don't you create what you've been trying to ask for what you've always wanted? And that was kind of the spark that got it all started. Oh my gosh.

I love that. Yeah. It's been a journey, but I'm so grateful for the push. We love a husband. That is a support. Supporting. Yeah. I've been encouraging.

Yeah. I know when you first started your company, you had just given birth or you were about to. Can you tell me about that time? Isn't that wild to just even think about? So Lynchman was like a super side hustle first. Okay. And then when I went on my first maternity leave, sort of all of my business development work came to fruition at one time. And so I just was like, okay, let's do it.

Let's dive in. Let's go all in and we'll try it. Thinking back, that's insane. Yeah, good timing. I don't even know. Like, just thinking about it, I don't even know how I was operating. But, yeah, I think I felt like there's never going to be a right time, but let's try this. But it was definitely the hardest thing I've ever done.

Yeah. What's been your experience like navigating being a small business owner while also, I'm sure, trying to navigate postpartum? It's so wild. Like it's like being a parent or learning how to be a parent is hard. Starting a business is hard. And then, okay, let's do it at the same time while we're also navigating postpartum health. And I dealt with a lot of postpartum anxiety as well. And so it was this space of just never feeling, I don't know if enough is the right word, but it's sort of like how.

am I going to be present for this baby and then also build something that I'm trying to grow. And so I was consistently in this like spiral of doubt. And like, am I enough or am I doing enough? How am I handling this? And kind of what gets you out of it, I guess. Like, well, therapy. But also how are we leaning on our support systems and like letting go of this idea of perfection and understanding that, you know, we're doing the best we can.

But it was a really, it was dark. Yeah. Yeah. But coming out of it, I think I learned a lot about resiliency and understanding that you're just got to take one step forward, keep moving even when you feel overwhelmed and just like asking for help, I guess, and remembering that people want to help you and you have a support system. Yeah. I don't know. It's so funny. It felt like this fog.

And now I kind of'm out of it. Well, I guess I'm going back into it again. About to enter the fog again. But I don't know. I'm grateful for the support, I guess, is the best way. And you guys know that. You need help. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. What was therapy like for you during that time? Had you done therapy before? Yeah. So it wasn't new for me. I think I'm a super advocate for it. I feel like, I mean, I think there's less of a stigma now, but like going to therapy is just like, you know, I go to the gym to work out.

It's like my brain workout. Yeah. It was great. I think probably at first, it was in that time, it was just a lot of me being like, what am I doing? Yeah. But I think it was helpful to sort of have these tools to remind me how to like bring myself back into the moment and really find grace. I think that's what we all need in those dark

times is like, I don't know, self-forgiveness and compassion for ourselves. And more than anything, though, I think like if I'm actually looking back, I learned a lot about empathy for myself, but also anyone you meet might be dealing with like this invisible struggle that we don't know about. And like that sounds so simple, but it really shifted my perspective. And I think now more than anything, more than any business strategy, like that time actually probably helped, like, create the heart of what Lynchman is. And this, like, dark thing became a really positive one. Totally. I love that.

I relate a lot to, like, knowing, realizing that everyone is going through their own thing. Yeah. It's so random. But when we were planning our wedding, it was honestly the biggest thing that, like, stood out to me. And we didn't really have that big of a wedding. But it was so many people were like, oh, like, there was, I feel like I just knew. what everyone had going on in their life because they were like, maybe I can do this.

I have this. Oh, family members this. Oh, I have this job. And it was just. How much effort it took from each person to show up to this. And it was really eye-opening to me. I'm like, wow, everyone, like, obviously I know everyone has stuff going on, but like really getting to see that and hear it. Because we don't hear it. You know, our friends have, there's always stuff going on, but we'll get together on the weekend and then they'll tell us about it. But it was really eye-opening that truly, there's something going on. Well, and I feel like we all, or like the people pleaser in all of us

is sort of like, I mean, I'm probably projecting myself, but it's like you want to be like, everything's fine. I'm great. We're good. We got this. Like, I'm confident. And it's like you're like drowning back here. And on the outside, you're like, everything's fine.

And like, that's not sustainable, right? Yeah, exactly. It's so tiring. Yeah. We've been, I forget what guests it was somewhat recently, but they said we need to treat ourselves like we treat others. And in the sense of if your friend calls you and is like, hey, I'm really struggling today, you're going to be like, can I come over? Let me bring you ice cream. What do you need?

What can I do? I'll drop everything. Right. But we don't do that for example. We're dealing with it. We're like tough enough buttercup. Like it's, that's so true. And it's like, or, you know, you wouldn't speak to other people the way you like speak.

We're all so hard on ourselves. So you, man, that's so true. I like that. Who was that? Do you remember? I think it was Christina Perry. I think it was. Maybe.

It was so good. It's such. It really stuck with me. And I honestly think about it multiple times. She's very smart and very deep. So I like that. I know. It's good.

I'm going to bring that with me. I've never thought about that. Yeah. It's such like a, it's a cool like spin on such an old phrase. Like treat others like how you want to be treated. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

We've all been told that. Treat yourself. Yeah. Right. It's so funny. Okay. Diving in to mental health in the workplace. You've said that the work, that workplace mental health.

needs a redesign. Yeah. What do you think is broken in the way most companies approach it today? Yeah. This is a great question. So I completely, this is so important and something that nobody talks about. But I feel like there's current state, I would say a lot of companies see mental health has like a checklist item.

Like sort of like, if we make a post during mental health awareness month or we offer yoga, then we're great. A beach chair? Or beach chair. Yeah, exactly. We're covered. And so I think the broken piece is. what companies are presenting or promoting and then like versus like how they're operating day

today. And so what I mean by this is like you can't promote mental health and then reward burnout or generate a culture of burnout or reward overworking and not take into consideration sort of people's mental load. And so I think there's like a piece here where mental health is like this sexy buzzword. And then it's like, well, what are you actually doing to implement it? And so I think companies need to, you know, how? It sounds like. easier said than done, but it's like how are we evaluating what leadership looks like and communication and managing workload expectations and setting boundaries and psychological safety and all of those things. And so I think the disconnect as people feel like it's just something that they need to check off.

And it's like, no, it needs to be ingrained into how you actually operate every day. So I feel like, then there are companies trying to bridge the gap. It's just a lot of companies don't. Yeah. And I've been in your situation too where it's like, here's some pizza or like, you know, here's a beach chair. It's like, that's not going to fix the systemic issue of toxic leadership. Yeah. Right. What would you say if someone came to you a business owner and they're like, hey,

I really want to implement true like mental health care into my workspace? Yeah. What would you say would be the first step for them to take? Yeah. Great question. And I think the super high level, like we talk about how to create mentally aware workspace or what that means is, We need to start looking at people as full humans who have lives outside of work. And so it's not just about seeing people as how they're performing or how they're sort of adding to the bottom line.

It's sort of like how are we looking at them as whole humans outside of that. And so I think there's a piece there around remembering that, yes, there's deadlines and there's bottom lines and all these different pieces. But like at the end of the day, people have this life that's outside of work. And like, how are we showing that we support people as full humans? and giving them a space to show up as a full person at work and not just, you know, I don't know, optimizing performance. Yeah. I mean, you mentioned it, but burnout and disengagement are at all-time highs.

Yeah. I mean, does it just directly tie back to what you were talking about or are there any other hidden stressors behind why you think that is happening? Or like what they look like. I feel like probably one of the biggest ones that we've kind of done to ourselves is we've created this ability to be reachable all the time. Yeah. And so we're sort of like, oh, I guess we're be like, we're always on.

Yeah. And so there's almost like an expectation that responsiveness is like rewarded. Right. And so and then there's some companies where people try to like set those boundaries. And then it's like, well, Colleen responded to me at 10 p.m. So I'm going to promote her. And it's like, well, that's not the culture. So we don't want to promote that space.

And then the other piece for burnout for me that I, this is more like from my own experience too, but I feel like if you're not setting your team up for clearly aligning what success looks like for them in their role, they're going to be chasing, it's sort of like chasing this like unclear dream or unclear vision. And so I think there's a lack of clarity in the workplace too that creates burnout because people are sort of overachieving

to hit this target that they don't even know what it is. Yeah. And then if we don't create a safe workspace, we talk about psychological safety. If we don't create that, then everyone's going to be scared to speak up and ask questions. And so then they just continue this cycle of doom.

Yeah. Being reachable all the time is... It's a huge problem. We do it to ourselves. Yeah. It's true. And I feel like what I hate is I've even come into the spot where like I have a really high sense of urgency in the way I communicate.

Yeah. And so then if people don't get back to me and I'm like, hey, Taylor, I message you 15 minutes ago. Have you not written back yet? You know? And it's like, what? Why am I expecting that? Yeah.

Or my thing I feel like is during the day, let's say, we'll like, we'll have a taping or I'll have like a few meetings and then I'll go to this appointment and then I don't I'm not actually sitting down on my computer until like 7 p.m. Right. And then that's when I'm responding to emails. And then like I'll always tell our assistant, I'm like, don't respond. She's going to giggle. But I'm literally like, don't respond. I'm sending you all of these things. Like don't even look until the morning, which I'm like, I guess it's good that I'm like acknowledging it. But I need to get, I probably should just set aside time to do it in the morning. Well, sometimes people too have it like I'm responding at a time that works for me.

You don't feel like you have to in their email note. But I think maybe that's what it looks like for you. I think as long as you're not doing it all. Like I think there's like we talk about like the future of work not necessarily being nine to five. And it's about finding that flexibility. And maybe evenings is what works for you.

But like, yeah, you can't expect other people to do that too. Yeah. My girlfriend does this thing. She's constantly traveling everywhere. And she, her previous job, there was no boundary with, work home nothing she was so burnt out right like 24 so was not been compensated for the amount of hours that she was working and so when she started working for this new company it's definitely still a very stressful job but she'll send me her calendar and starting at like i guess 5 p.m it'll just

be like five to midnight it says like out of office so every day in her calendar it says that so it doesn't like alert her on her emails oh so and like that's such a healthy boundary yeah i love She's like, I'm away. And I was honestly shocked. Really? She's good about that? I know, yeah. Yeah, I guess, like, part of it is you have to do it. Yeah.

Like, you actually have to, like, maintain that. Yeah. But it's, I mean, I mean, well, you were in nursing. So, like, that's actually life and death. But a lot of what we're doing, an email can wait a day. Yeah. Like, no one's going to die if I don't get an offer letter out. Yeah.

And so I, that's something I've actually had to work on because I'm so used to. That's what I was going to say. You're a perform. Like, you want to perform. want to do the best you can. So, like, you do a lot of this to yourself. Yeah. I'm the same way.

I also have a people-pleasing thing where I want everyone to like me, which is so unhealthy. And then I'm like, well, if I do this now, maybe they'll bring me back. And like the life or death thing, I've had to, I wish I still have not even come close to doing, but I've really had to try and retrain my brain that I don't need to do 20 things at once in the sense of like I'm so used to going to the med room, pulling meds for these three patients on the way I'm so. by the supply room, getting more flushes, I'm going to this, I'm pulling, pulling this doctor, I'm pulling, like, literally it's like just, you're filling everything into your hands, and then you're stopping at all these places and doing all these things. And I do that at home. Like I'll literally, I'll have a basket, which, you know, maybe healthy, maybe not, but I'll, like, get a laundry little hamper thing and I'll put everything I need to do upstairs. Or I'll, like,

grab, I'm like, okay, I'm going to be walking by the podcast room. I'll put this there. This has to go in the guest room. Oh, this actually needs to go in my bathroom. And like, do you find you actually don't finish tasks because you're sort of half starting a lot of things? No. I mean, I do end up closing the loop on them at some point. But no, I'll start something. I'm like, oh, wait, let me do this. And then it's, yeah, it's just like this never ending cycle in my brain, which in.

There's a mental load there that is exhausting. Yeah. In a nursing hospital environment, you have to be, you have to be thinking like that. And critically thinking of what tasks need to be done first, what's going to take the longest, which one's the most important, which one. can wait. And that's how I like literally view like cleaning my house. And it's having to learn to like retrain my brain that no, I can vacuum downstairs. Yeah. And then I can vacuum upstairs. And it's going to be okay. Yeah. And then I can just wash your dishes and that could be fine. And then like I don't need to do everything at once. You know what we need for you? We need to put a severance chip.

Oh my gosh. I just finished season. Oh my gosh. It's so good. So good. The season one finale. I can't even. I'm still thinking about it. But yeah, we finish season two, too. It's so good. I hope we don't have to wait forever. I have a feeling we will have to. I know. I know.

Maybe I'd be three and four together, like at the same time. That would be nice. That'd be great for us. I know. Yeah. Because I don't want to wait. But yeah, you could benefit from that. Yeah.

Hey, your work day's over. Okay. Boobo. Yeah. Or what I'll do is I'll allow myself an hour to be manic. And then after I'm like, okay, I'm going to sit. I'm going to be calm. Like, I'll just set a timer.

I love this. My mom was always like, just set a timer. Like, play someone. one's album and like once you get through the album like you're done or it's almost like you're like timing yourself like how quick can I do this which is you know can be good and bad depending on how it's like a good outlook is if it helps you get through it and set your boundaries so then you can relax after then but most of the time I do need like I will set like a timer for an hour or 45 minutes whatever and I'll clean because I'm clearly have some OCD problems but I'll I'll just do things that

are around the house to quiet my brain. And then, like, when I wake up in the morning, I'll spend 30 minutes, like, just cleaning or putting stuff away and straightening up the house. And then it helps you start your day. Yeah. Like, I like making my bed first thing in the morning, too. I feel like it's a great start.

I will say, too, do you not do that? We're very different people. Most of the time, it's half of the bed has... I love those in the shit. I feel like I'm accomplishing something when I start my day making my bed. Totally. I get the concept.

I really do. I will say having kids has forced boundaries, too. because we have to pick them up from daycare school. And so that's been a forced boundary for me or a forced time to be like. And so something I've been really working on is being super present in what I'm doing at that moment. And I struggle with it too where my brain is like, you have all these things going on. And you need to be a wife and a CEO and a friend and a daughter. And I have to get 10,000 steps and drink enough water and like, ah.

And it's like I've realized the hard way that we can't be everything all. at once. And so like, how do I be super present with my kids and my husband when I'm with them? And then when I'm at work, I'm super present on that thing. And I found it helps me and I've gotten a better output from it, but it's so hard in practice. Yeah, that's so true. I'm curious what are some common misconceptions that companies have when it, when it comes to trying to support employee mental health? Oh, great question. I think probably the biggest thing is that like mental health means perks. So we talked about this a little bit. And I think like, it's not a wellness app or a yoga class or a beach chair.

I'll keep going back to it. But I think the misconception is that people think it's this outside support. So sort of like something you can add to your benefits list. And so it's not just benefits. It's like how are we looking at our leadership and the way we're communicating and the space we're creating for our team? And like mental wellness is not just, I'm giving you time to go meditate. it's like I'm creating a work environment where your mental health is prioritized and your

psychological safety is is prioritized and also like we've created a leadership system that supports that from the top down and actually implements it. So I think the biggest misconception is that, yeah, like a wellness day or yeah, like a yoga class or something like that or pizza or whatever is like that's going to solve it. And it's like it's not performative in that way. It's definitely not one size fits all. And so I think there's a space where you have to like individualize it and just create the space for everyone in your company.

But I don't know. I think there's a lot of companies trying, but I feel like there's a lot that aren't too. Like, I mean, we talk to candidates all the time who are just like crying at their desk and need to get out. And it's incredible what a leader can do. Yeah. So myself personally, like I, when I was still working in-house, I had the same job

at two major cities. So like when I moved from Toronto to Vancouver, I kept the same role. The only thing that shifted was my leader. And I went from, it was my favorite job I've ever had to me being the person who was crying at my desk. And it's like this incredible thing where toxic leadership can shift such an experience. So like how are we being really mindful in how we're training our leadership to create that safe space too. It's incredible the difference it can make.

I'm sure you all have people in your life who have managers that they struggle with. Yeah. Yeah. That's got a suck going from. going from an incredible leader like backwards like you'd rather like have it tough at the beginning and then like get the amazing leader and be like

I mean my silver lining person personality was like well now I can like understand what it can look like right I try to like be a glass half old person out there it exists not with me right now that yeah I relate to that one a lot okay you talked about a little bit about psychological safety yeah what what does that mean great question so

the super, super high level would be you're creating a space where people feel safe. So creating the environment where people feel like it's okay to ask for help or admit mistakes or admit burnout or like looking for support. And so it's not like if we're trying to figure out what that could look like, like if you came to me and we're saying, I'm your leader and you're telling me you're experiencing burnout, I'm going to respond to that with like adaptability and adjustment for what you're doing. And I'm not going to respond to that with like pushback.

or defiance, or you have a new, like a junior team member and they come to you and they're like, hey, I don't really understand this. Do you mind explaining it to me again? And you're going to see that as curiosity and not incompetence. And so I think it's just really creating a space where people feel safe to speak up, I guess, and feedback doesn't just come from top down. It goes both ways. And so if you think about, you know, a great follow-up to that is, okay, well, how do you do that or what does that look like. The biggest thing for leaders, right, would be modeling it. It sounds so simple.

But I think the first step is always, you know, if I'm going to be managing the function or leading the group, I can admit my mistakes and I can hold myself accountable and I can create a space where I show you that it's okay to do that. But more importantly than anything, I think it's coming back and repairing. Yeah. So we're all human beings. we're going to be, I think about this in parenting too. We're all human beings and we come to a space,

I'm going to lose it, I'm going to yell, or I'm going to be upset about something. But if I can come back and close that loop and have that conversation and hold myself accountable to my behavior, that's going to create way more trust with your employees than anything. But I, so I think the first step is really

just helping your leadership understand what it looks like and you have to hold them accountable to modeling it, and if they don't, it's not going to work. And then your turnover will be really high. Yeah. Yeah. You've said, which I'm curious about, you've said that layoffs can actually be a good thing. Yeah. So I'm curious.

My endless optimism. Right. Exactly. I'm sure somebody who's just been laid off. They're like, okay. Yeah, sure. This feels great. Could you walk us through your experience and what changed for you after that?

100%. I think the starting point is layoffs in general, regardless, there's such an ego hit. Yeah. Even if it's a mass layoff where they're laying off like you feel like, oh, am I bad in my job? Am I a bad person? Am I bet? And it's like this, it's very easy to fall into this like spiral of doubt. And so I'll start by saying, for sure, feel the feelings.

Yeah. Like I think it's, we don't have to go silver lining right away. Like, it's okay to be upset. But I think for me, when I can step away from it, I had such a big learning from it. So how do I explain this? Okay. I feel like what you learn when you're getting laid off to was like I was, like, I was able to walk away and I was in a place personally where I was that person who was

working 24 hours, like all the time, pushing boundaries, getting burn out. And then you're replaceable. Yeah. And so I think like the biggest learning for me was that we're all replaceable and no one really cares. And I mean that it sounds so bad. What I mean is still do your job and perform, but like remember that you're very easy to replace. And a lot of these decisions are business related. So it's like this isn't about who you are and how you always. operate as a human being. This is about what the bottom line was for the company and how they need to operate. And so the biggest lesson for me, or like why I would say it's one of the best things that's happened is it just taught me that my life is so much bigger than work. And I think I was so

career focused and feeling like the only way to succeed would be to hustle or like to really grind and dig in. And it's like what you learn is if you find a company that appreciates these things, but also remembering that like you can do your job well and then you can step away from it. you can be present with your family and with your life. I don't know. Yeah. It's hard, though. It's definitely an emotional time.

So anyone who's going through it, I'm not trying to not validate your feelings. Yeah. For sure. But, I mean, honestly, I feel like that's a really healthy way to look at it because I think you're right. Most of the time it really is. That's nothing to do with the human itself and more so what was best for. What they needed at the time even. Or like, sometimes companies overhire for specific projects and then the project finishes so they let everyone go.

but I don't know. I think it's like you think back to like working through your vacations and like leaving Thanksgiving dinner to go finish an email or something. And then when you walk away from it, you're like, why did I do that? Yeah. You know, they obviously didn't see you in the same way. So I think it's like how can you be great at your job, but also remember it's just a job. Yeah. How do you recommend from the leader point of view, they approach layoffs in a way that centers empathy?

Yeah. great question because no one's doing it. Well, no, a lot of people, that's not fair. I've seen it done really poorly and I've seen it done really well. But I think the most, this is going to sound so obvious, but don't blindside people is step one. Like, you know, a few years ago, there was that mass layoff at X and they all just woke up and couldn't get into their email. And then, so it's like, that's how I find out. So I think step one is don't blindside people.

I think you have to have these hard conversations. and so be as transparent as you can about what you can share and create a space and offer tools to make sure that they feel heard and questions could be answered. And then also following up. But, you know, I think the bad side would be like those blind sides. And then I've also seen companies who are incredibly empathetic and, you know, they do a mass layoff and then they create a database.

And it's like, hey, LinkedIn or, hey, world, here's a list of incredibly talented people and what they're great at. They're all open to work. How can we support them? And, you know, getting their permission, of course. But it's like, how can we help people? You know, like, these people are humans. I feel like that's what we forget sometimes

that there's human beings on the other side of it. So transparency, empathy, clear communication would be the pillars. Yeah. And honestly, it just sounds like we need to just care a little more about, like, each other. And what's, but I mean, you know, I'm also not a president of a very large company. And I'm sure that, you know, obviously can be hard to do. when you have hundreds as fast. I can't even imagine.

Yeah, like there's, it's probably really hard because it's like, well, we need to make money. But I think you can still create policies and procedures that get what you need to get done without, I don't know, it doesn't need to be so harsh, I guess. I'm curious, how do you personally protect your mental health as a founder, wife, mom, all of the above? Especially having a startup company because I can talk a little bit more after. but that is something I definitely struggle with. I mean, obviously I struggled with it in a different way when I was nursing. But even now, more so, when you are the founder of a startup company, it's like it's your baby.

So like I'm always like if I'm not going to do it, it's not going to get done, which I feel like I've, you know, I have some amazing people that work with me and help take a lot of the load off. I've got out of that too, though. I've re-trained my brain. But it's, I think there's like a. pressure we kind of put on ourselves because I'm like at the end of the day I'm the last line of defense because it's mine.

Well, and you're always going to be the one who cares the most if it's yours really at the end of the day. So I guess I'll start by saying I need to work on it. Great. But I think the, we talked a little bit about this before, but the learning to sort of compartmentalize has been very useful for me. And so scheduling my life, I guess, is the best way to put it. So like when I have mom things, I'm super focused in mom mode.

When I'm doing linchpin things, I'm super focused there. I make sure I find time to, like, call my parents and that kind of thing. But learning that you're not going to be everything to everybody all at once would be my biggest piece of advice. It's never going to work. I tried it. All that ends up happening is you sort of half-ass a million things. And really, you feel like you're letting a lot of people down. And so for me, tackling burnout looks like being super present.

and then also prioritizing the things that I need. And so moving my body every day or getting a good amount of sleep or having time with my partner, all of those things. And how do I fit that in and what does that look like to make sure that I'm prioritizing that just as much as I am like an important client meeting or something like that? And it's easier said than done. But I also, yeah, I want my kids to remember that I was at everything. And I was there every day and all those things.

So it's like figuring out how to delegate and ask for help. and also, yeah, we talked about this before, but grace, it's not going to always work. Yeah. And you've got to be kind to yourself. And progress, not perfection, isn't that like that's the quote? But it's hard. Yeah. It sounds like we're similar in the way.

I'm hard on myself too. And it's, we have to be kind. Oh, yeah. He yells at me. Not really. He yells at me all the time. For what? You don't actually.

Oh, just like being hard on yourself? Yeah. Or just, you know, he's like, put the laptop away. Like, it's nine people. Yeah, what are you doing? Let's watch severance. Yeah. Exactly.

Priorities. Yeah. But I think it's good because I think, I feel like we're a good balance of, like, work and motivation and also the reminder of let's like relax and watch TV or have dinner together. I think everybody needs that. My husband's like that too. It's nice. Yeah.

It's like balances me out. It's a good balance. I'm curious, what's something that you used to believe about success, maybe that you no longer do. Oh, yes. Okay. I think even like five years ago, Colleen or ten years ago, Colleen would say, yeah, like that hustle culture, like working all of the time and, you know, always getting there first and always being responsive and prioritizing everything in my career above everything else was what I thought success looked like. And it was the only way to go up. It would be like, well, that's the only way I'm going to grow. And I think now what I've learned is sort of like patience, boundary setting, prioritizing, like success for me looks like. And it's like, you know, finding that balance and feeling that balance and feeling like I'm taking care of myself. Whereas before I think it would be like, you don't need sleep, finish this.

How are you going to get more clients or like whatever that looks like? And what's amazing is when you set the boundaries and you find that space, everything's actually better. And we talk about finding time, those pockets are finding time for ourselves. And my husband and I are very supportive in that way. Like, what do you need? Like he's a bit, he loves mountain biking and skiing or, and it's like, how do we create the space to allow everybody to do that? And man, we're such better parents and we're such better partners when we like take care of ourselves first and whatever that looks like. Yeah.

But again, easier. It's all easier said than done. Yeah. What does your husband do for work? He's a civil engineer. Oh, cool. Yeah. So he's, his brain is so much more logical than mine.

And it's so useful to, like, he'll talk me off. But he, he's like, you know, very busy and could also. be working until all an hours of the night. And so, like, we're both very good about being like, stop it. Let's go watch something to have and hang out or play cards or something like that. That's sweet. Teamwork. Yeah, exactly.

It's important. I'm curious what you would say to someone like me that maybe feels guilty for, like, not putting in enough effort or not feeling like they're putting in enough effort. Yeah, at first I'd say, yep, right there with you. So listening to our own advice. but I think, okay, protecting your peace is going to be like the biggest thing for yourself. And like the guilt is coming from feeling like you're failing or like that's for me, that's where it comes from, is feeling like I'm guilty because I'm not being present

enough with my kids or I'm guilty because I'm not caring enough about this business. And so like what I would say to you and to like myself to listen to would be set the boundaries to understand, like redefine what success looks like for yourself and then remind yourself that you're doing that. And so I think if we talk about, you know, maybe successes that you're able to go on a run in the middle of the day or maybe success is, you know, yeah, like I'm able to pick my kids up every day or I have time to go see my family or whatever that looks like and remembering that I've created a life that allows for that and sort of giving yourself grace. But I think we feel guilty because we feel like we're not doing enough. But like,

how do we remember that? Like, oh my gosh, you're doing way more than you should be. Yeah. And sort of letting go. I think there's guilt sometimes for like high performers where you feel like resting is not productive. Oh, yeah. And so. Relate. Oh, yeah. Well, so like you're trying to like taking you time.

Yeah. Or even like I'll admit like I'm away right now and my husband has the kids. And so I'm here for work, but I have so much guilt because I left him. And now he, and it's like, it's okay. Yeah. And when you're with him and you're with the kids, you feel guilty for like not being at work. Yeah. So I think like the.

biggest piece of advice that we all need to take is just like, A, giving ourselves grace, but be, like, remembering that you are doing a lot and you are enough. And I think, I don't know, maybe it's like how we find ourselves worth and what that looks like in reevaluating that. I think I used to feel like your outward appearance or like, I don't know, there's like a validation from others that I needed to like feel successful. I like, especially in this like crazy world of like social media, it's like how present my or what does that look like. And it's like redefining that. like success actually comes from like how do I feel about how I'm operating and how I'm showing up.

But I don't know. I need to take my own advice. Yeah. I mean it's it really is like I feel like at the core if you look at if you look at like the feeling of like guilt and the pressure that we put on ourselves. Yeah. Really majority of the time is not there. It's such like it's such an interesting concept that so many of us just do it. And I guess it's I've never really thought of. about it. I mean, obviously I have, but just you just flat out saying because like we're scared of failure. Yeah. Like, I've never really thought about that on a deeper level before. Sorry, this sounds like a no, this is good. No, I love the woo-woo. Just like, really, but that's, that's kind of

what it is. And it's just interesting that that is such a collectively shared feeling. I feel that way about like mental load in general too. Like we talk about how like you and I having a lovely conversation, but in my brain, I'm like, okay, did I sign the kids up for swimming? Or, like, did I finish the will? Or, like, how do I, what does this look like? And it's, how do we shut it down and be present? And I think, like, that's probably my, like, overarching message for mental health in general is, like, focusing on where you are and what you're doing. And I kind of feel, this is woo-woo you too. I feel like that's kind of, like, the key to life. Yeah.

It's just enjoying it. Yeah. Like, instead of worrying so much about, like, what's next? It's like, how can we be great at where we are today and right now? Yeah, it's so good. My girlfriend, she, because I'll do this thing, which again, can be healthy, can not be healthy. But when I'm working and when I'm like focusing on something, I'll have like a notebook next to me. And if I have like those drive-by thoughts of like, oh, I needed to like go pick up the dry cleaning, I'll write it down. So I'm like, I don't want to forget.

Honestly, that is a bad thing because that is something that needs to be like picked up. I need to move the blankets into another closet. I don't know, something that is. random thoughts. No urgency, no nothing. Truly just like a drive-by thought. Yeah. I'll write it down.

So then it's like it's gone, but I know it's there. Because I feel like I can struggle sometimes with I'll have a thought and I'm scared I'm going to forget it. Yes, this is my life. I'm always worried I'm going to miss something. I forget it. Yeah. But my girlfriend told me she struggles with the same thing.

And her therapist was like, I think she may have been the one that told me this whole like drive-by thought idea. But she's like, if it's just. just a drive-by thought, it's probably not important enough for you to, like, remember in that moment, and it will come back. The welcome back thing is key, too. I feel like somebody told me once, too, if something's important enough, someone will remind you, A, or B, like, I don't know, you'll just be sitting there and all of a sudden it's like, who, blinkets. Yeah, whatever it is. It does come back. But you're right. We, we, like, if everything is urgent and important, then nothing is.

Yeah. It's so true. I heard you guys talking the other day about, like, things that people learn from therapy and I was like we need to do this more. I feel like someone just needs to have a blog that's like here's all of the advice my therapist gave me. He's so helpful. I know. I loved those. It's such good reminders and I honestly feel like majority of those things were a maximum of eight words. But they're so good and they're such good reminders and it also kind of makes me feel like weirdly we're all in it together. Yeah. And you're like these things that feel so isolating and alone and you're like, oh. Yeah. Everyone. Okay. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Once you say it, once you like talk about it and you hear someone, you're like, oh, that's not just me.

Yeah, oh, great. Great. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one. I'm curious, were there any pivotal moments that made you realize you needed to start prioritizing your well-being? Yeah. Just like, guilty. I'm going to, there's lots, but I'm going to, there's two that come to my brain.

Yeah. So the first one would be postpartum in general. And so I have never felt so alone while surrounded by. people. And I think it's terrifying. You're vulnerable. You're scared. You're doubting your ability to do anything. And like I said, at the same time, trying to like build linchpin. And so I was kind of letting everything I cared about go. I mean, you're not expecting. You're not going to be like going to CrossFit while you're just out of baby. But like I wasn't taking time for myself. I wasn't going to therapy. I wasn't asking for help. And then my people pleaser was like, I'm great. Oh my gosh.

This mom thing is so fun. And it's amazing. And like, meanwhile, I'm like crying. in the shower. And so that was probably one of the big ones. And the learning there was leaning on people. And you're doing more harm by not asking for help than you are. It's not sustainable. And then the other one is sort of a broader thing for my whole life where I was kind of evaluating the role I play in the different circles I'm in. And so what I mean by this is I've kind of fallen into, I'm the person that people come to for advice or to talk through things. And I actually, like, this is a point of pride for me. I actually really like it.

I think I'm a judgment-free zone always. I will support vulnerability, all of those things. And I don't ever want that to stop, but I got to a point where I was like, well, who's asking how Colleen's doing? Right. And it's like this exhaustion where you're carrying everything else for everyone and no one's really taking you into consideration. And so there was a learning there for me and just like setting boundaries and you don't have to answer the phone every single time or do everything. And it's like you have to prioritize yourself. And a big one for me too is like letting my husband in. Yeah. I think I always felt like I had to be together.

Like I was like, everything's fine. I've got it. I'll do daycare sign up and we'll do all these. And it's like, no man, we're a team and we're in this together. And like when you talk about it and you open up and you ask for help or I don't know, it's just so much more powerful. But yeah, I think there's just like a beautiful reminder that we're all humans and life is so hard. And we don't have to do alone. Yeah, it's so good. You mentioned the importance of like small intentional habits. Yes. How do you protect those pockets in daily life and what do those look like for you? Yes. This is so important. And this is going to sound so dumb and simple to you, but I schedule it like I would a meeting. Yeah. I did that for a small period of time and then I stopped. The problem is if you don't,

it's the very first thing that's easy to go to the wayside would be like my 10 a.m. walk. You know, like, it's very easy for me to be like, I don't eat it today. Yeah, but it's like, no, okay, I can stop this. So I think, like, I have to schedule it in. And it sounds so, it's not romantic, but it'll be like, like, Brian, like my husband and I'll be like, we're having lunch together together because we both work at home. So it's like, we're going to eat lunch together today.

And it's like, we're not going to have meetings during that time. And this is our time together. We're going to play skipbo or cards or something. And, yeah, or, you know, I'm going to go for a walk or I'm going to work out. and just remembering that that client meeting can wait till 2 p.m. if I'm doing this now. So I think I have found if I prioritize scheduling those times for myself and I take care of me first, I show up way more powerfully in all aspects of my life. So it sounds not sexy, but I'd say like added into your routine and schedule.

And just like don't not do it. Like sleep meditation has been helpful for me or starting my day with gratitude has been helpful for me. So like there's all these pieces that routine. I'm a creature of habit and having kids has made me very routine, to be honest, but I think not letting those little things that feel like they're easy to replace go away. So like take the walk or get a massage or whatever it is. Yeah. Clearly we need to just like put things in our schedule with my girlfriend putting her not office hours. Yes. Or like I have a group of girlfriends where it's like the first Wednesday of every month we have dinner. And if you can come, amazing. And if it doesn't work for you great. But that's like a standing day. So you can have that quality time with your friends. And I actually think it's like, if that wasn't in there, it would be like, I don't know, you talk about it. It finally made it out of the group chat.

But if you create the consistency, it'll be there. I literally just posted that specific video. It's true, though. We always talk about going on trips. I don't know, you never do it. Just make the things happen. I know. There's never going to be a right time for stuff too.

That's like one of the big things. It's like just go on the trip. I know. Yeah, my girlfriends last year, I don't know if we're going to end up doing one this year because one of the girls is pregnant, so we're trying to sort that. But beginning of last year, my friend sent this, I don't know, some app,

where we basically went through every weekend of the year that we were available. I love this. And all five of us did it. And out of all five of us, there was three weekends out of the whole year that we were all available. And we ended up picking one of them.

We're like, we don't know what we're doing. We're holding this weekend. No one put anything on that weekend. Please send me whatever this app is. And then literally like three weeks before we were like, let's go to Wilmington. Like, we're like, okay, great. We finally just like randomly picked where to go. Yeah.

And you did this like how long in advance? Yeah, great question. Well, let's see. Holding the day. We went. Oh, well, I mean, we did it in December, 2023 and we went August, 24. That's okay. Or I think it was, yeah, was that last year?

Two years ago. It's crazy that you need to do it that far, but it's true. It's wild. It was December of some year. and then like August of the following. Yeah, seven months or so. Yeah. Yeah.

But I love that like every like Wednesday, the first Wednesday of the month with. Well, and like you guys have insane schedules. Like how do you find time for friends and family and like what does that look like for you? It's a really good question. It's hard. Yeah. No, it's definitely. I mean, luckily do people that are close friends understand that that is our schedule and we have

amazing friends that will come over on a random Tuesday night when like they happen to be free we're free or they're traveling and yeah we just kind of like we should we do the best we can but but you know one of the problems is we feel guilty that we can't do it for everyone you know right you always you have somebody that is upset or hurt or offended like if you're going to be in a certain city yeah and you can't or just or just as simple as not finding the time to see them right And it's like, you know, you have all these friends and family. It's like, how do we see everyone and do everything? So everybody feels loved and appreciated.

You can't. Yeah. Yeah. So that's the pressure part. There is a beautiful thing with like, I don't know, when you think about like real true foundational friendships, like there's people, you don't have to talk to them all the time. And when you see each other again, you pick up, right, right? But like, I feel that too.

Like how did I call my mom today or have I texted my brother or my sister? like whatever that looks like. And it's like, you got to remember it's a two-way street too. This is something that I think about all the time. I'm definitely like a glue person. And I bring people to guide you all those things. But it's like,

yeah, people need to like, it goes both ways. Yeah, for sure. If this may be a tough question, maybe not. I don't know.

If people take away one thing from this interview, what would you hope that would be? Oh, this is a great question. And I, it's easy actually. Okay. Be kind to yourself and create space for

yourself to like take care of you. I think would be the biggest thing. I think we feel this, we just talked about, but we feel this pressure in our lives to be performing for everyone all of the time. And it's like nothing is as important as taking care of yourself and you're going to be way better for it if you take that time. So yeah, take care of yourself, but also just like be kind. And again, this is me projecting. Be kind to yourself. It's so good. Well, we're so thankful to have had you on. I feel like this episode is going to help everyone no matter what job or position you hold. For sure. And really just a lot of personal stuff too and such good reminders. And we'll leave a link down below so people can check out Lynchpin. Thank you. Thanks for making

the trek over here. Of course. No, thanks for having me. This was so fun. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.