The Squeeze - Dr Amen: Raising Mentally Strong Kids

Episode Date: March 20, 2024

For the first time ever, The Lautners welcome back a past guest, Dr. Amen, for another conversation on mental wellness, this time for children. Whether you’re a parent, want to be a parent, or have no desire to be a parent, Dr. Amen offers insight into relationships and development that we’re certain you can apply to your life in some way. Dr. Amen explains why he wanted to write a book with Dr. Charles Fay and tackle what is missing from most parenting books—brain health! He explains the importance of special time, active listening, and letting children make affordable mistakes. There is undeniably a youth mental health crisis, and Dr. Amen hopes that by offering a “parenting manual” that encourages firm, kind parenting, children will have a better chance at mental strength from the very start.   Be sure to follow Dr. Amen @doc_amen and pre-order his new book, Raising Mentally Strong Kids: How to Combine the Power of Neuroscience with Love and Logic to Grow Confident, Kind, Responsible, and Resilient Children and Young Adults  Thanks to our awesome sponsors for supporting this episode!   Caraway — Visit Carawayhome.com/THESQUEEZE or use code THESQUEEZE at checkout to take advantage of this limited-time offer for 10% off your next purchase  Cerebral — Cerebral is giving our listeners 15% off their first month of online therapy, medication or both. Get started at cerebral.Com/podcast and use code thesqueeze to make 2024 your best year yet. Offer only valid on monthly plans. Other exclusions may apply. See site for details  Honeylove — Get 20% OFF @honeylove by going to honeylove.com/THESQUEEZE! #honeylovepod  Clarins — Go to clarins.com/thesqueeze with promo code THESQUEEZE and get Multi-Active Day & Night Cream for 10% OFF, A FREE WELCOME GIFT, PLUS FREE SHIPPING on your first order  To email us your questions or share your story, you can reach out to [e-mail]. Be sure to rate, review, and follow the podcast so you don't miss an episode! Plus, follow us on Instagram, @thesqueeze and personally @taylautner and @taylorlautner + on TikTok @thesqueezepodcast    To learn more from The Lemons Foundation, follow @lemonsbytay on Instagram and visit lemonsbytay.com  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Auto-hue with Sunny Cars feels as if the children not be made-saint-mere. Tiselstrande. Zand-Worda. Actis-verkeer, verdwine. Vacanty can chaotic

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or sonikars. One of the big a haas in the book, but also with parenting with love and logic, is let children make affordable mistakes because they learn from them. If you rescue them, they won't. And then they'll become entitled. And entitled people are never happy. When life gives you lemons, what do you do with them?

Over here at the squeeze, we talk about it. Hello, lemon drops. Hello, lemon drops. You're just singing one two step. If that makes it in or not, we'll see. I think it should. Maybe our editors will put it in. We got good editors.

Drop the beat. Sierra. This beat is. Automatic, supersonic, hypnotic, funky, fresh with my body so melodic. This beat goes right through my chest. Nice. That kind of sounded like the bop it, the guy that is it. Twist it.

Yeah. Pull it. Wow. Pretty good, huh? Wait, what? Right? Whatever happened to that? Twist it.

Pull it. Do you think that's still a thing? Like, is that... Can I go to Toys R Us? Is Toys R Us still a thing? I don't think so. I... Yeah, no.

I don't... I think Toys R Us went under. Oh, that's sad. I don't know. Help us out here. At least where we are. I felt... I know there used to be won by us and it's not there anymore.

Huh. That's a good question. Toys R Us, man. What a spot. What a spot? Bob it. Speaking of Toys. What?

that goes great into what we're going to be speaking about today. Oh, because children love toys. Children love toys. What a segue. And we love raising mentally strong kids. Yes. Which is... Even though we don't have kids.

The title of our favorite Dr. Amon's new book. We are very excited to have Dr. Amon here with us today. And we just like dove into all things, parenting children, brain health. Because last time he was here, we talked about... You guys may remember that, you know, we have had Dr. Eamon on before. We have. Fun fact, he is our first repeat guest. And we talk about it, but it's very fitting that he is because we both love him and respect him so much.

He is just so highly sought after in this world. Yeah. That we just feel so honored that he takes the time to come and talk with us. Yeah. And you guys. So yeah, it felt perfect. Also, we've become close with him in the last year. The Lemons Foundation and his foundation are doing some exciting things together.

So it was really cool to have him back. And we hope to have him back all the time. Yeah. This is his 42nd book. Forty-second book. He wrote his first book in 87, I think he said. 87, 89, something like that. And then he comes out with like a.

a book or two a year. Yeah. That's what, yeah. Keep writing books. We'll have you back. I know. We'll have him back regardless of. Yeah.

He's unbelievable. He has just so much knowledge. I could listen and talk for actual hours. Yeah. But yeah, it's just, even if you don't have kids, a lot of what was talked about today is applicable in your romantic relationships, your family relationships, whatever dynamic relationship. I felt like a lot of the stuff he was saying was.

Like, yeah, and also it can probably give you insight. Like I know when he was talking about things, like it gave me insight to maybe I, you know, am the way I am because of, you know, growing up, like what my child life looked like. Um, but it also, if you don't have kids, and it's, it's good practice. Yeah. If you, if you, if you are a parent, then this is gold. Yeah. He literally, he described it as girl telly asked him, like, what do you want out of this book? like what's the biggest thing? And he was like, when you have a kid, you know, take that kid home from the hospital and there is no handbook. And you were just terrified and lost. And there's no, there's no book for it. And he's like, this is, I want this to be that. This is that guide.

Yeah. So encouraging. So much wisdom. We love the man. And I think you guys are going to love this episode. Enjoy. Enjoy. Enjoy. Dr. Amen, welcome back to the squeeze. We are excited to have you again. For people that don't know since our first episode in season one, Dr. Amen has been incredibly supportive of all things lemons. We have exciting things planned partnering with you. And you've just become a friend. So it only seems fitting that you are our first ever. repeat guest on the squeeze. Yeah. I'm so honored. We are too. We are too.

Truly. We love you and we love the work that you do. And yeah, that's fun. Always a good excuse to have you back on here. But we start each episode off with this little jar with a game called Citrus Got Real. Did we do this last time? I know. I'm trying to remember if we did it.

Because when we first started, we would forget the game a lot. Yeah, we did. And I know you were towards the beginning. So maybe we forgot to do this. I don't think so. Okay. If you would like to pull a little question out of there. These are very, very random questions.

An icebreaker. Favorite emoji to use. He's like, none. Get off your phone. Yeah, it really depends on news, too. But, you know, I think it's just the hard one because I connect to the people I love mostly. Is there a color? A red.

Red. I mean, if I really don't like you, I'll use yellow. But most of the people I choose to communicate with, it's red. I'm just going to send you yellow hearts from now on. What would yours be? Well, I do like that answer. But like recently, like going off of that answer, I've been doing the hand one, like the hand heart. That was going to be mine.

Really? Yeah. I've been doing that one. I've, like, transitioned off of the red heart, and I do the hand heart a lot. Yeah. But I also, I'm also pretty sarcastic in my texting a lot. So there's a lot of, like, winky faces. Oh, like a smirk or like that, like the wink?

I'm trying to do it. Like the smirky one was like this or is it like that? No, not the smirk, the full wink. The full wink? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So.

Take it. Anyways, so last time you were here, we talked all about brain health, but really for adults. And your new book focuses on children's brains, which I think is super cool. And a different outlook of, you know, addressing things sooner so that we don't have to address them as adults. Before this book, you teamed up with Dr. Charles Faye. You guys co-wrote it together. And I'd love to know why you decided to. to write the book together. Charles is the president of the Love and Logic Institute. And they have what I think of is the world's best parenting strategies program. When my daughter, Chloe, who's now 20, when she was six, she and Tanna, my wife, were at war. And I'm a child psychiatrist. Tana's not listening to me.

And like when she's seven, they're spending two hours doing homework. And I'm like, Tanna, you did second grade. This is hers to do. Get out of the fight. And she wasn't listening to me. But three other people recommended parenting with love and logic. And she took the course. And then anything they created, she took.

And she actually became a trainer and an expert in parenting with her. love and logic. And it crystallized in this one moment at home where, Chloe, are you going to do your homework? Not now. And Tennis stopped. And she went, sweetheart, I'm never going to ask you to do your homework again. I did second grade. And if you choose not to do it, you'll have to deal with your teacher. I'm not rescuing. And if your teacher is mad at you and she loved her teacher, that's on you. And if you don't go to recess, that's on you. And if you really don't do your homework and you repeat second grade, you'll make new friends.

Explosion. Chloe said, I never said I wasn't going to do it. I'm just not going to do it now. She stormed off. 20 minutes later, without any help, she did her homework. And no one ever asked her to do her homework again. And she's going to be a senior at Chapman University. she's the most independent, mentally strong, responsible person.

I know. And it came from love and logic. Yeah. But love and logic didn't have brain health. Yeah. And so that's why we teamed up together to create a really strong program using the latest neuroscience with love and logic strategies. And it's so important.

And I realized, and I sort of feel sad about this, that when my older kids were young, I got self-esteem by solving their problems. But what I realized is I was stealing their self-esteem. Interesting. And when you do too much for kids, they become entitled. And entitled people are never happy. Right. And so we spend a lot of time in the book talking about raising mentally strong, resilient, independent kids. And it comes from competence that if you're competent, you feel good about yourself.

If you're not competent because you rely too much on other people to solve your problems, you don't feel great about yourself. And then you end up blaming other people. So it's the number one hallmarked behavior, it's hallmark self-defeating behavior. It's blaming other people for how your life is turning out. Right. And you can head that off when they give you a problem on board. Hmm. I wonder what you're going to do about that.

Rather than run around and make sure they're not bored, which chronically stresses you out. Right. And then you're just significantly less effective. Right. What are you, going back to the Chloe example, what do you think it was in that moment that, what do you think it was that like changed, you know, her outlook? Tanna took the responsibility off Tanna. Okay. And put it on to Chloe.

Okay. And Chloe clearly wanted to go to third grade. Chloe wanted to do well in school. But she was dependent, and I think in subtle ways, unconscious ways, Tanna created that dependency. And when she put it on her, the whole world changed for her. And then there was another time, I don't mean to pick on Chloe because I adore her. But she had like this huge fit. And we were going to go, I think it was see Enchanted at the theater on Hollywood.

Great movie. Gromond's Chinese theater, I think. So we're going to go like the opening weekend, special thing. She had a fit. And Tana's like, you can't reward that behavior. So she actually got a babysitter for her. Tana never had babysitters for Chloe, because Tannish talks about this in her book, the relentless courage of a scared child grew up in chaos.

And she was abused by babysitters and so on. So never had a babysitter. Got a babysitter that she trusted. And when it was time to leave, Chloe, it's like completely forgot her fit. And Tanna said, I don't do nice things for people who don't treat me with respect. And I think everybody listening should just write that down. I don't do nice things for people who don't. treat me with respect. And she's like, dad and I are going. You're going to stay. Here's the babysitter.

And oh, by the way, and she told the sitter, you know, ever do her homework and then her chores and then you guys can play games. And oh, by the way, you need to pay her for this because this is on your behavior. And if you don't have enough money, she takes toys. Stop. Takes toys. That's good. But, You only have to do that a couple of times before people realize they're not going to put up with your bad behavior. Right. Wow. I love that. Thing.

Yeah, that's good. Okay, lemon drops. This is your reminder to make sure you're staying committed to those mental health goals that you set in January. Because resolutions aren't just for January. Yeah. They're for the whole year. Consistency is key. Consistency is key.

And one of my personal goals for the year was to go to more therapy. Stay consistent with it. Stay consistent with it. It's very important. Individually, but also, you know, as a couple, it's done. Therapy has done so much for us as individuals and together. Which is why I'm excited to talk to you a little bit about our next sponsor, Cerebral. Cerebral is here to help you achieve your mental wellness goals with professors.

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Yeah, the hardest part about going to therapy is. getting your butt up and showing up. You know, life gets in the way. You get busy, you know, and then you fall out of the groove. And you just, you feel so much better when you are consistent with it. So it's definitely, yeah, very helpful that you can do it all online. Because, yeah, then you have no excuses. Yeah, you got no excuses and it keeps you accountable.

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They don't talk anything about the physical functioning of their brains. Right. And they don't talk about brain development. You know, your brain is actually not finished developing. until you're about 25. And I always say God gave you parents until your frontal lobes develop. So the front third of your brain,

the most human thoughtful part of the brain, 30% of the human brain, 11% of the chimpanzee brain, 7% of the dog's brain, is not fully developed until you're 25. So supervision is really important. And too often, parents send kids away to college where they're in a dorm with a bunch of other underdeveloped

brains and it's it's often very problematic. I'm like a huge fan of keeping kids close until their brains a little bit more developed. Okay. And so, you know, if we think of early fame with a brain that has not fully developed. Yeah. It's a prescription for disaster for many young kids. Yeah. 25. Hmm.

I know. I was like, how old am I right now? I'm older than that. I'm fully developed. You're very developed? Yep. But think about it. If you started smoking pot,

because that's a big issue we talk about in the book. Oh. It delays development. So say you start smoking pot at 14. So that'll even delay it. Well, it stops this process of myelanization. So myelomization, a huge word. It's a really important concept.

When we're born, our brains do not have much myelin. And we start to myelinate the back of the brain and slowly goes forward. So if you take a brain cell, a neuron, when you wrap it with myelins, so think of it like insulation on a copper wire. it works 10 to 100 times faster. So if the front third of your brain, which is involved in things like focus, forethought, judgment, impulse control, organization, planning, empathy,

learning from the mistakes you make, that's maturity. Maturity is, I don't make the same stupid mistake over and over again. Yeah. And that part's not fully myelinated. Now, let's throw in alcohol or throw in magic mushrooms or throw in marijuana, it delays, damages, impairs, development. And so if you start when you're 14 and then get yourself cleaned up when you're 30,

emotionally you're still sort of 14. Right. And I think it's so important to teach kids to love and care for their brain. I have a game in the book called Chloe's game. This is good for my brain or bad for it. Teach them to love and care for it. So the reason they avoid those things is out of love, not out of compliance.

Because if you just tell kids to do things, well, they want to do the opposite. I mean, you know, in the Garden of Eden, in the book of Genesis and the Bible, right? Don't go to the tree. You go to the tree, there's going to be trouble. Yeah.

The next scene. I'm out of the tree. Yeah. Dang. Yeah, that's true. What are you, I mean, you kind of touched on it, but what are you kind of like witnessing regarding like mental health of kids, teens, young adults? Like, what are, and what are some of the like root causes to their struggles?

So it's one of the reasons I wrote this book now. It's a disaster. Yeah. Brand new study. 54% of teenage girls report being persistently sad. Think about that. More than half of our young girls and women, young women are persistently sad. 32% have thought of killing themselves. 24% have planned it and 13% have tried it. Numbers never seen before in history. Yeah. That, you know, the reason is social media is one, right, because of the self-absorption that comes with social media, you following people and watching

how many people follow you. The bad food is another. The news is another and the chronic stress and tension. And I tell everybody, turn off the news, turn it off. Right. I mean. It's my favorite. I hate watching the news. Like, mass, 10 minutes a day. Yeah.

It's the same thing over and over again. And if it bleeds, it leads because fear keeps your attention. And they just lead with that. And if you watch the news in the morning, you're 27% less happy in the afternoon. And so if we think of social media, the news, well, what about bad food? Yeah. Right. A brand new study out just last week on ultra-processed food, virtually damaged every cell in your body.

And driving up here, you know, I must have seen 30 fast food restaurants. Yeah. And, you know, it's available and it's not expensive. Yeah. And it damages us. And so Chloe's game. She and I used to play this game when she was two. Is this good for your brain or bad for it?

I said blueberries. She'd put her hands on her hip and go, are they organic? Because not organic blueberries. Stop. Hold more pesticides and almost any fruit. I'm like, of course they're organic. She goes, God's candy. If I said avocados, she would go God's butter.

I said ice cream. She goes, oh, I love it, but it doesn't love me. That's so funny. But it's that, that's the mother. question. Yeah. Is this good for my brain or bad for it? Yeah. That ice cream thing, I was just talking to my girlfriend yesterday and I don't know what got us started on it, but I was born lactose intolerant. Like I've never been able to like dairy out of the womb. I've been like that. And growing up, I always really wanted to have ice cream or just like a glass of milk. And we never had it in my

house because my mom, we definitely ate healthier than most families, but also I couldn't eat it. So I would, my parents have it. So that's a sign of love. A lot of parents of kids who are sensitive to milk, if the other kids aren't, the kid just chronically feels ashamed and bad. So. Good to know.

Good job, mom and dad. I'll listen to this. But when I would go to my friend's house, they would have milk and I would like drink it. And then I would be sick. And I kept doing that as a kid. And now I've like, because I couldn't have it,

but I wanted it. And like, I knew it was bad for me, but obviously I couldn't think of the consequence of me being sick from it that young. Yeah. And now as an adult, I don't crave ice cream. I don't crave milkshakes. I don't crave milk. Like, I literally, like, I tasted and I'm like, get it away from me because I now know what it does to me and how I feel if I have a sip of a coffee that has milk in it and what that outcome is going to be. Yeah.

So it's really interesting that you say that because seeing that changing me from, you know, child. to an adult is interesting. Well, I have a child who I'm very close to, who I love a ton, who I first saw because he had Tourette syndrome, which is a tick disorder. He had motor ticks, he'd blink and shrug and just had all these funny muscle movements. And vocal ticks, you know, where there's coughing, coughing, blowing, whistling.

And it really negatively impacted him at school. And the first thing in my mind is let's get rid of gluten, dairy, corn, soy, artificial diets, and sweeteners. And 90% better just with the dietary change. But the first time I saw him back, he's clearly better. And he's sad. And I'm like, I broke my heart because he was sad. And he's like, I just don't like any of the food. I said, is that true?

he's like, I don't like any of the food. So the next time I saw him, we went on a shopping trip. We're like, your job is to find 20 things you love that love you back. And we're up to now 175 foods. Oh, wow. And he just realized it was a mindset shift. Yeah. And he clearly doesn't want the ticks that make him stand out

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It's chef's kiss. It's great. I would love to know, obviously, we're not parents. So this is a very pre-educational topic for us. But I'd love to know how one's parenting style can nurture mental strength or weakness. Well, and that goes with mental health for sure. If you do the things we talk about in the book,

dramatically decreases the risk of anxiety and depression in children. Because it's when attachment gets broken, kids get unhappy and they get angry. And so all of us want to be attached. I want to be attached to our partners, want to be attached to our family. But when we're little, it's life-saving to be attached. So there's this need from a child to be bonded, to be connected. And when that gets frustrated early, it causes a great deal of anger in children.

But because they're dependent on these. people, they feel guilty about the anger. And then they turn it on themselves. And when something early happens in a family that causes this break, when children are four or five, six, they think of themselves at the center of the world. And if something good happens, they sort of think it's because of them. And if something bad happens, they think it's because of them. So there are a lot of adults who that happened to, they just go around feeling like they're bad people, but they haven't done anything bad. It's the rage and then the guilt about it that gets suppressed and then it gets turned on them. So if you want to raise mentally strong kids, step number one, know what you

want. What kind of parent do you want to be? What kind of child do you want to raise? And so if you know you want to raise independent, competent children, you stop solving all their problems. Right. But it starts with focus. What do you want? The second is attachment. It's bonding. And bonding requires two things.

Time, actual physical time, without the frickin phone. Mm-hmm. It's so important. I mean, you can see whole families walking down the sidewalk or at a restaurant. everybody's on the phone, nobody's talking to each other. I have an exercise in the book that if you do this with whatever children you have, money in the bank, your influence with that child will go up and stay up, special time, 20 minutes a day, do something with the child wants to do.

And during that time, no commands, no questions, no directions, just be with them. Right. And I don't know if it's true for you guys, but if I had time with my mom or with my dad, that was gold for me because I'm one of seven. And time was, my dad was gone, and my mom was busy.

Yeah. Right. So she would read with me once a week, and that was so important to me. But can you imagine the influence, parents could have if they just spent 20 minutes a day. And they weren't bossy or they weren't clean your room or they weren't critical. My first literary agent, when I figured this out, I think I was 35.

And he had a child later in life, Laura. And he's like, Daniel, she never wants to be with him. when I come home, she completely ignores me. He said, that's a girl thing, right? Girls, like, want their moms. They don't want to be with their dad. I'm like, absolutely not. You're ignoring her.

I said, do this. And I told him about special time. And he goes, that won't work because he tended to be oppositional. I'm like, oh, great, you represent an idiot. Maybe we should rethink this relationship. I said, do it because it works. And I'm going to call you in three weeks. I'm going to put you in my schedule and call you in three weeks.

Get the party started. And he's like, all right, three weeks later, I see him on my schedule. I call him. Damn, she won't leave me alone. All she wants to do is be with me. As soon as I come home, she grabs my leg. She wants her time. No way.

It's so powerful. Wow. It's so powerful. I had an Oakland police officer who, like, didn't want to come to the appointment. His 10-year-old was a hell. Hellian bad behavior. beating up kids at school and all then. It's like, it just needs to be spanked more.

I'm like, how's that working for you? Special time. Completely changed their relationship, especially when I got dad to be quiet, right? He wasn't critical. The second part of bonding. And you guys know that too, probably. When you guys spend time together.

Right. Well, I was just going to say, like, I feel like special time could be like for any relationship. Yeah. I feel like that would be great for us to, you know, set aside that. Well, along with one, which is goals. Yeah. What do you want?

Like with my marriage with Tanner, I'm like super clear. I'm caring, loving, supportive, passionate relationship. Yeah. Always want that. Don't always feel like that. These rude thoughts show up. Yeah. And if I've slept and I've eaten properly, they don't ever get out of my head, right?

Don't say every stupid thing you think. right know what you want time and then listening parents talk way too much and there's something therapists are taught it's called active listening when child says something don't give them your opinion just repeat it back and then shut up and then they'll keep talking and then just repeat it back and listen for the feelings behind it and it's gold special time listening. So I like to tell the story when my son was young. He came home and said,

Dad, I want to have blue hair. I don't know what your father would have said. I know what mine would have said. No, goddamn way. As long as you live in my house, you can have blue hair. But what does that do? It stops the conversation where it starts a bite.

Active listening is, oh, you want to have blue hair. It's just repeating it back. There's no judgment, nothing. And he's like, all the kids are wearing it that way. Now, I've been to his school. They're not all blue-headed children. But I don't know what your dad would have said if you said they're all doing that.

Mine would have said, I don't care what anybody else is doing as long as you live in this house. You're not having blue hair. If they're going to jump off a bridge, are you going with them? I hear that's so much trying. Yeah. But again, what does that do? Stopps the conversation or starts a fight. sounds like you want to be like the other kids.

And he might say, you know, sometimes I feel like I don't fit in. And that's the conversation you want to have. And of course, my mother would have said, what do you mean you don't fit in him? You're a good boy, you're a good-looking boy. Of course you fit in. And that's not helpful either. It's like, hmm, and then just listen. Now, at the end of a half an hour, if you still want to have blue hair,

I tell him, no, goddamn way, hell as long as he lives. my house. Yeah. It's not helpful to like look weird. Yeah. If I'd so supervision and boundaries are important. But kids are so much more likely to accept it. Yeah. If they think you care. Yeah. Caring is time and it's listening. Yeah. It's so crazy how this is like, it flows into every form of relationship. We talked about it. You brought it up when we were talking with Dr. Judy, who is an attachment style. Expert. Expert.

Yeah. And you told her the story about one of our friends with their child recently when they were thrown a tantrum. Just, you know, letting them get it out, you know, rather than jumping in and being one and a half. Or I guess he's almost two now. Almost two. I like that. Yeah. Because we just talked about rage.

and then guilt about the rage. The rule I have is if you throw a tantrum to get your way, the answer is no. It's always going to be no. Go for it. I have no tantrums. Yeah. Because, and what happens, they throw a tantrum

and you get anxious and you give in to them. Yeah. So what have you just taught them? Right. To throw a tantrum to get your way. Yeah. It's like, no, no, no. We teach people how to treat us

by what we tolerate. Yeah. And the two hallmark words of parenting, if you're ever, like, confused at what to do in a situation, it's firm and kind and do that at the same time. And if you're going to err, err on firmness, whoa, 10,000 kids study where they looked at parenting styles. And they looked across two dimensions.

firm versus permissive, loving versus hostile. And it gives you four kinds of parents. Parents that are firm but permissive, loving and firm or firm and permissive. And the worst, the kids who do the worst in life, how hostile, permissive parents. I hate you and I don't care what you do. But the second worst, surprise me.

Because you would think the second worst would be firm and permissive. Be hostile and firm. Oh, yeah. The drill sergeant type. But it's actually not true. It's the loving and permissive type. The kids had the most problem.

Right. And it's not good to be hostile. Don't be hostile to your children. It's not helpful. But if you really want to raise mentally strong kids who feel good about themselves, loving and firm, firm and kind. Yeah. Are there like any signs in children that parents could look for to be like,

oh, maybe I need to like reassess my parenting style or how I'm approaching things? Yeah, if your kids are anxious. if they're sad, if they're acting out, and becoming a child psychiatrist. So I did three years of general psychiatry training and two in specific child and adolescent psychiatry. Well, the first year of my child training, I did play therapy with these kids,

and I hated them because nobody got better. I was just like that wasn't very helpful. The second year, I did parent training with the parents, and the kids got better. Because when I teach the parents how to act in ways, because, you know, most people, when they have children, they act as their parents acting. Or they're really unhappy with their parents.

So they do the opposite, neither of which is often helpful. Yeah. And you have to ask you, is it ADD? Because ADD or ADHD, it's a real thing. and life untreated causes all sorts of problems, or is it ineffective parenting? So the first thing, when you have an ADD or ADHD child, get your parenting as good as it can be.

And if the child then still has problems with focus and follow through and organization planning and procrastination, impulse control, then it's important to change. treat it. Yeah. And there's so much controversy. I'd never get my child medicine. It's like, well, you'd give medicine if they were diabetic. You'd give medicine if they had cancer. You'd give medicine if they had heart disease. You know, if the brain's vulnerable, at least think about it. Yeah. How, this is like strictly out of curiosity. Like, at what age does, like, the feeling of,

like, anxiousness develop? Like, what does that look like in young kids? Oh, okay. and happen in babies. Okay. That'll look like, you know, they'll be in distress. Yeah. Now, you don't want to just give in to the distress, the first thing. You want to see if they consume themselves a little bit, right? Don't let them cry all night.

That's not what I'm talking about. But try not to be intrusive with trying to fix things. Yeah. Mostly we're fixing our own anxiety or, you know, I'm a bad pair. or they don't like me. They are six months old. It's like their brain isn't developed enough to have a big opinion. Yeah.

Yeah. That's so true. I know. I think about that all the time. I don't know. But just like, what are we going to do? Like when, you know, her baby's crying. Like how or how are we going to react to that?

And a little bit ago we're talking about we were watching a friend of ours give the speech. And she is a very, like, she's a strong. independent, knows what she wants, woman. And I'm, like, so proud to call her a friend. And I like a Taylor. And I was like, how do we, I want to raise my girls. We have girls to be like that. Like, I started panicking about, like, how do I, like,

I really want to make sure that my girls are, you know, independent, that they're strong. Like, they're able to express what they want. And I feel like I've learned a bit more about, like, how to. Who and what are you talking about? Allie, Reesman. Oh, got it. Allie, Raysman, the U.S. Olympic gymnast.

She's a friend of ours, but we were watching a speech she gave, and she's just, she's a great human. But she is so articulate and she is so strong. And I was like, I want my girls to be like her one day. So I feel like I'm a little more. I feel like there's hope. I feel like I can read that book and I can have a little bit less stress on me. Because that makes me anxious. But the anxiety.

So really, it's important to deal with that. So you don't end up overcompensating and doing too much. And that's the beautiful part about love and logic. It's like, you know, if Chloe didn't bring her homework to school, there's no way Tanna would have brought it to her. And she forgot it like twice. Yeah. If it was cold out and Chloe didn't bring a sweater,

and it wouldn't bring her in sweater because you only have to be cold ones to have that memory. Yeah. So she wouldn't rescue her. One of the big ahas in the book, but also with parenting with love and logic, is let children make affordable mistakes because they learn from them. If you rescue them, they won't. And then they'll become entitled and entitled people. are never happy.

Yeah. I love that affordable mistake. Yeah. I just thought of this and I'm curious if you have a suggestion for it, but let's say there is like one parent that is wanting to make a change in their parenting style and the other one is not wanting to make that change. What would your advice be to the parent that is wanting to change? I see this all the time.

Okay. And it happens a lot with divorced families. And you do what you can do. Yeah. And nudge, but don't push. Because if you push, so many people, I don't know if we've ever talked about brain types, but through my brain imaging work, there's 16 different brain types. And there's one type that if you say, hey, let's go do this, immediately say, no, I don't want to.

Right there, automatically going to say no. So how you approach those people is in the opposite. It's like, oh, I learned about this really great program, but you probably wouldn't want to know about it. You have to start with you probably wouldn't want to do it in order. You know, it's just their brain is not developed much beyond two. Remember, two-year-olds are just naturally oppositional. It's part of their brain, the part that says, no, develops, is myelinated before.

for the sort of more thoughtful brain. Is that why kids are so good at saying no? Like every, like our nephew, like, you know, everybody, every two-year-old I know. Yeah. No. Right. No. No is the answer to everything.

Yeah. I don't want to kiss. Then they have to kiss you. Right? But if you go, here, give me a kiss. No, not giving me a kiss. But I don't want one. And then all of a sudden they have to do it.

It's a Garden of Eden thing all over again. don't go to the tree the next scene they're at the tree yeah that is so funny yeah yeah right no no to everything yeah and they'll even say no you know like they'll say no even if they do want something they just like want want to say no yeah and they're like okay I actually want it yeah no and that's why I ask in the second time is often good because you get beyond their automatic response the other thing really good in family's rules, right? Society has rules.

Families, I think, should have rules. Not too many. I had a patient who had obsessive-compulsive disorder, had 108 rules posted on the fridge. I'm like, no, it's a little over the top. I'm like, no more than eight. But, you know, simple things, like tell the truth. Put things away you take out.

Do what mom and dad say the first time. It's my favorite rule. Because if you tell a child to do something more than five times, your chance of abusing that child goes way up. So my daughter, I have five of them. God punished me. I have five sisters. So anyways, you've impaired.

Caitlin, who I just talked to this morning, who I adore, the first response was no. And, you know, do it, do it now. And she'd oppose. And I just got really good at saying, I asked you once, if I ask you again, here's the consequence. I don't really care. It's up to you. But I'm really good to follow through.

So she knows she's not going to work me. Too many parents get worked because they love the children so much. But that's not really a sign of love. It's a sign of weakness. Yeah. What was that stat you said about? leads to abuse? If you tell a child to do something more than five times,

your chance of abusing them goes up because you're furious. And then what happens is you overreact and then you feel guilty. So you don't react and you don't react and you don't react and you don't react and pressure builds, built and then you explode. Right. And so the trick is react appropriately. The first time. I mean, by the fifth time, I mean, you're so incensed by the disrespect that you can lose control.

Right. That makes sense. And, you know, another thing we talk about in the book is when you don't know what to do, go, there's going to be a consequence. I have to think about it. I'll let you know what it is. Right. So good. Really ramps up the child's anxiety.

And when we talk about anxiety, what we're trying to create. is appropriate anxiety. People are like, anxiety is a bad thing. No, anxiety is an essential thing, right? If you're going to do a role, you have anxiety, so you go learn your lines, right? It's, I don't know, I've got to be prepared because you don't want to be embarrassed,

you don't want to let people down, whatever. It's modulating the anxiety. There's a great study out of Stanford. They looked at 1,514. 10-year-old children in 1921. And then they evaluated them every 10 years for 90 years, looking at what goes with health success and longevity. And what they found was the low anxiety people,

the don't worry, be happy people, died the earliest. What? From accidents and preventable illnesses. Oh, gosh. the conscientious people, which means they sort of live with on a scale of zero to 100, 15 to 20 percent anxiety. I just want to do the right thing. I want to be on time.

I want to do what I say. I'll get this deadline done a little bit early. It doesn't consume you, but it's there. But it's there to just sort of get your life going in the direction you choose. people who have low levels of anxiety go to jail. Because like if I get a thought, I think I'm going to rob the grocery store. My next thought is you don't like institutional food. Right.

It's like you could get caught. Don't do that. Right. But when your brain doesn't even allow you to think about that, you just do it. Right. Wow. And they actually, people go to jail, have slower heart rates and lower. sweat gland activity and lower frontal loat activity.

So appropriate anxiety. And, you know, some I don't know about you guys, but I know I behaved in part. So my mother, father wouldn't throw something at me or be angry. Right. Yeah, we had this guy, Dr. Rosmarron on. And he, we talked all about, like, stress and anxiety. And he was like, stress is like a healthy level of stress is good. Like you need that.

And it was just really eye-opening because we talk about, you know, you know, struggle with anxiety and we struggle with these things. But, you know, not letting that define you and turning it in a way that is actually like good and can motivate you, you know, to learn the lines, whatever it may be. Yeah. Well, and part of that comes, you know, if you get your homework done early, you're less stressed. Yeah. if you're conscientious, but also in the book we talk a lot about very practical strategies,

like teaching children not to believe every stupid thing they think. I call it killing the ants, the automatic negative thoughts. I wrote a book actually for children called Captain Snout and the superpower questions. I love that book. Because like for five, six, seven-year-olds teach them not to believe everything they think. Thoughts are powerful. And it's really not the thoughts you have that make you suffer. It's the thoughts you attach to that make you suffer.

And if you just carry this question around in your head, is that true? I absolutely know that that's true. I love the work of Byron Katie. She has a book, my favorite book called Loving What Is. And it's basically whenever you feel sad, mad, nervous, or out of control. So if a child comes home, it's like, I'm really sad. I'm really anxious. It's like, let's write it now.

Tell me what you're thinking. And then just take it through a process I talk about in the book that starts with. Is that really true? Do you absolutely know that that's true? Did you touch on this? I know in your new book you talk about mental hygiene. Have we touched on what that is and who should be practicing it? All of us. So March 10th, I had a feeling that was going to be the answer.

2020, March 10th, 2020. My book, The End of Mental Illness had just come out the week before. And I was in my office at home, getting ready to go to the airport to go to New York City. So if you remember, that's the epicenter of COVID. And I remember that night, writing down mental hygiene is just as important as washing your hands. we need to disinfect our thoughts so we don't have to believe every storm that your brain creates. Yeah. And so mental hygiene start every day with today is going to be a great day. Push your brain. Every day today is going to be a great day.

When you make decisions throughout the day, it's good for my brain or bad for it. It's good for my brain or bad for it because if you love yourself, you're going to choose good. And when you go to bed at night, perhaps my favorite thing, my favorite mental hygiene habit is to clean the day, which is I go to bed and I say a prayer and then I go, what went well today? And I'm serious. Like I start at the beginning of the day and I go hour by hour looking for even the smallest thing. We've had this tragedy at home. I was telling you a little bit about it. My mother-in-law got diagnosed with stage. for lung cancer. And I remember, and it's been stressful, just walking up the stairs and grabbing Tanna's hand because it's actually helped us even be closer.

And that made the highlight real at night because it was just a very tender moment in a dark time. And I remember the day my dad died was about three and a half years ago. And I've been doing this what went well, exercise. for more than 10 years. And that was like one of the worst days of my adult life, if not the worst day. And when I had hit the pillow,

I said a prayer and then I went, I went well. And I'm like, seriously, we're doing that today? Yeah. But because it's my habit, the brain is lazy. The brain does what you allow it to do. I did it.

And I remembered some just really funny touching moments in that day. And I went to sleep. Wow. And it didn't mean I didn't grieve. I still grieve. Yeah. But I'm managing my mind rather than my mind's torturing me. And it's a process and it occurs over time. Wow. That's really powerful. Yeah. I'm just curious, you know, what is like your biggest hope for this book? goal, hope, dream, who it reaches. So I love this book so much. And I've lived the content for throughout my whole sort of child psychiatry career.

Yeah. There's not a manual for parenting, right? You just bring the child home from the hospital and nobody gives you a manual. It's scary. My hope is, is the instruction manual that should have came with your child. That's cool. Yeah. So, yeah, it's true. My dad has told me the story several times of the day that they brought me home from the hospital and that moment of walking through the front door with me in their arms and going, whoa, I am in, I am responsible for another being's life. Like, what are we supposed to do? Yeah. Yeah. It's a terrifying.

He said it was the most scared he's ever been in his life. I felt the most human when I had my first child. Well, I adopted my first child. But having him in my life, I just felt like things were not just about me anymore. And it was wonderful. And awful. So wonderful and awful. He gets a shout out in the book.

One of the major principles. in the book that also helps adult relationships. Notice what you'll like about your kids way more than what you don't like. Yeah. And he was hard for me. So I adopted him. He tended to be oppositional and argumentative, that brain type, that no matter what you said, he'd then say the opposite.

And I was in my training, and I did my child's got your training in Hawaii, and I miss Hawaii every day. I love that place so much. And my supervisor said, it was basically the precursor, the special time. It's like, you need to spend more time. And I took him to a place called Sea Life Park. I don't know if you guys ever went there, but it's on Oahu. And we went to the Dolphin Show, and that was fun, and the Killer Whale show,

and the Sea Lion show, and it was all awesome. But at the end of the day, he grabbed my shirt, and he said, I want to see Fat Freddy. And I'm like, who's Fat Freddy? He's seven. my son. And it's a penguin show. And they had one more penguin show. So we get into this stadium.

And this little fat, humble penguin comes on the stage, looks around. So you know he's sort of full of himself, climbs a ladder to a high diving board, goes to the end of the board, bounces, and then jumps in the water. And I'm like, whoa, gets out of the water, bowls with his nose, counts. with this flipper jumps through a hoop of fire. I'm completely blown away by this little bird. I have my arm around my son. We're bonding. It's a good day.

And then the trainer asked Freddie to go get something. Freddy went and got it. And he brought it right back. And at that moment, time stood still for me. He's in my head. I'm like, I asked this kid to get something for me. And he wants to have a discussion for like 20 minutes. And then he doesn't want to do it.

And I knew my son was. smarter than the penguin one. And so I went up to the trainer afterwards with Anthony next to me. And I'm like, how did you get Freddie to do all these really cool things? And she said, she looked at my son and then she looked at me and she said, I'm like parents, whenever Freddy does anything like what I want him to do and notice him, I give him a hug and I give him a fish. And the light went on in my head that even though my son did. didn't like raw fish. My daughter actually does. Chloe loves sushi. So it would have worked great for her. Not for him. I was like my own dad. I wasn't paying attention to him when he did good things.

I paid attention to him when he was being bad because I didn't want to raise bad kids. So I was inadvertently giving him the wrong kind of attention. So I collect penguins. I have almost 2,000 of them. It's very weird. To remind myself to notice the good things about the people in my life more than the bad things. And what do you think would have happened if Freddie had a bad day and the trainer got a stick and beat the penguin? He'd never performed for her again because he would have raised the rage and the anxiety, which would have shut him. him down. But so often, you know, parents get angry at children and do not have thoughtful responses, which can create all sorts of trouble. Now, as parents, all of us have made mistakes.

All of us have had thoughts we don't really want or had behavior we didn't really think was smart. So forgiveness is important. But overall, if you're noticing what you like, So if you have clear goals, you're bonded, they're rules. You don't get into tantrums. You notice what you like more than what you don't. Yeah. Kids have become mentally strong. Yeah.

It's great advice for anybody and all relationships of life, too. Yeah. It really is. Yeah. So good. Well, we're going to leave a link to your book, everyone. Go check it out. I'm probably going to read it and learn some advice about my marriage.

I could probably help in there. But thank you so much for coming back. This has been so fun. We love getting to see you and spending time with you. Yeah. Thank you for having me. I am deeply honored. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Lemon Drops, for tuning in with us for another week. We are so thankful to have you guys along with us on this journey. We sure are. If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. If you can see me in this camera right here. And if you're listening to my lovely, sometimes annoying voice, be sure to click follow. No.

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