The Squeeze - Jameela Jamil: What The Frick?

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

In this week’s episode, Tay is joined by actress, activist, and podcast host Jameela Jamil for another girl-talk conversation! Jameela starts off by sharing how she got her start as a professional DJ before landing her first-ever scripted role on NBC’s The Good Place. She talks about the adjustment to being in the spotlight, how she’s managed to stay grounded despite the pressure to change in the entertainment industry, and gets candid about her experiences with cancel culture, body image struggles, and her past battles with disordered eating and anorexia. She opens up about what healing has looked like for her—including her journey with therapy and EMDR—and how those experiences inspired her to launch Move For Your Mind, a mental health movement focused on making exercise more accessible and less image-driven. Jameela also dives into the idea behind her new podcast Wrong Turns, why she believes in sharing our most cringeworthy mistakes, and how creating space for imperfection can be deeply therapeutic. Plus, she reflects on a wrong turn of her own and what she’s most proud of today!Be sure to follow Jameela on https://instagram.com/jameelajamil/!Listen and watch Jameela’s podcast “Wrong Turns”: https://open.spotify.com/show/48QtcFDDyQzKIc4B0fo4V7?si=ab0342bc3cd74791https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wrong-turns-with-jameela-jamil/id1498855031https://youtube.com/@jameelajamil?si=8MMPKVggAxU5FWViCheck out Move For Your Mind here: https://instagram.com/moveforyourmind/To email us your questions or share your story, you can reach out to [e-mail] sure to rate, review, and follow the podcast so you don't miss an episode! Plus, follow us on all of our socials:The SqueezeInstagram: https://instagram.com/thesqueeze/TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@thesqueezepodcastTay LautnerInstagram: https://instagram.com/taylautner/TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@mrstaylautnerAmazon Storefront https://urlgeni.us/amazon/FDXj7 Taylor LautnerInstagram: https://instagram.com/taylorlautner/TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@taylorlautnerTo learn more from The Lemons Foundation, follow https://instagram.com/lemonsbytay/ and visit lemonsbytay.comEpisode Sponsors:Try your new trusty favorites with an exclusive set for our listeners. New customers can get the Liquid Lash Extensions Mascara and a mini-sized Brilliant Eye Brightener at a special set price with free shipping available at thrivecausemetics.com/THESQUEEZE. Or save more with 20% off your first order at thrivecausemetics.com/THESQUEEZE.Go to cokeurl.com/simplyPOP to find out where you can try Simply Pop!Right now, Boulevard is offering new customers 10% off your first year subscription when you go to joinBLVD.com/SQUEEZE and book a demo.For a limited time, go to Tonal.com to get FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS OFF SITEWIDE.Visit LiveConscious.com and start your journey to natural beauty. Use code SQUEEZE for 15% off.Function is offering 160+ Lab Tests for $365 to anyone who signs up between July 7th and July 11th. To learn more and get started, visit www.functionhealth.com/THESQUEEZE.Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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adjusting to fame, was there an adjustment period for you? I think just not being such a . Two other famous people. When I first got famous, I didn't understand I was famous. I just thought I could just still continue to have completely no filter publicly. I was just a little asshole. I really hated celebrities. I still do, but I'm calmer about it now. And I used to just be really rude about everyone.

You have more power, you have more responsibility, you have more platform, you have to learn how to wield that power responsibly. Whereas I was like, I'm a little comedian. But I don't shy away from that part of my history because A means that I have a right to talk about trolls because I was one. I understand what a dark mental place you have to be in to even go online and say something horrible to a stranger.

But I also think it shows that if I can grow and change from being a misogynist prick to being who I am now, who fights for women all the time, then anyone can change. I'm a very big advocate for believing in change because otherwise what is the point of activism? We don't seem to have a lot of hope and faith in people anymore. I'm living proof that people can change if you just give them a bit of fucking time. Jamila, welcome to the squeeze.

Thank you for having me. I am so excited because as we were talking before, I've just like seen you everywhere. And just the way you talk about your body and beauty and the standards really, really, resonate with me and I just love the work that you're doing and you're just kind of being yourself. So I'm excited to like get to hear more about your story and all of that. But we do start each episode off with a jar that I do have here with me. It's a little game called Citrus Got Real. It's just like a fun little icebreaker question. So I'm going to pull a little piece of paper out of there for you since you are not with me in the flesh. Let's see what this says.

Ooh, if you were a board game, which one would you be and why? Scrabble. Because I'm a pedant. And Scrabble is a pedantic and infuriating board game. And I think it suits me perfectly. Very anal, very precise about things sometimes. Sometimes not precise enough. But yeah, scrabble.

That's good. I feel like mine, mine right now would be Candyland because I like, I've been on a really big, like, sweet kick recently. Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah. My husband does not, he is not a sweets person. He's definitely like a more. I don't trust him then.

Honestly. I used to really like him until just now. Yeah, I know. He is. Finding that out is really actually, I think I'm going to go. Yeah. Bye. It's probably for the best.

We end it now. Yeah. People without sweet tooth freak me out. And he doesn't. He also has this weird thing where he doesn't like fruit in food, like any form of like, he likes cookies, but if it's like lemon. Oh, fruit in savory food is demonic. I'm now with him again.

I'm back. Do you like strawberries and like a salad though? Absolutely not. No, that is an animal. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. Great. Then you guys will get along. Part of you. Yeah. Yeah.

No, I'm back on track. I'm back in the room. Oh, my gosh. That's so good. Um, okay. So I actually have a question for you. I'm in doing my prep for this. was the Good Place your first scripted show?

Yeah, my first audition. That's so, that's so crazy to me. Like, how did that come to be? Was that something you were seeking out? I just, I was forced to go to the audition. I didn't think that I had any right to be there. My manager really needed someone who was tall and English and annoying. And she couldn't think of anyone else.

So she sent me. And I got the job. I was perfect for it. What was that like? Was that nerve-wracking? Like being terrifying. Like, you know, people are like, oh, I have imposter syndrome. I'm like, try being a fucking actual imposter.

Okay? You want to know anxiety? Try actually not belonging there. Not just thinking you don't belong there. Try actually having no idea what you're doing. And then being opposite literally the most talented people in the industry. Like Ted Dantz and Lisa Cudra, Maya Rudolph, Kristen Bell, like all of these people. And then it's just me, just a woman off the street fighting for her life.

Well, you fought well, you fought well. Thank you. Thank you. I made it out barely alive. What were you doing before that? I was a DJ. Shut up. Really?

Yeah, that was my job. Yeah. I was actually really Jason Mendoza. That's who I really am. Everyone's like, oh, she's just like to honey. It's like, no, I'm actually Jason. I was a clueless idiot DJ. And that's how I met my boyfriend, who was also a DJ at the time, and he's a singer, musician.

But yeah, that's what I did. I was a DJ, and I wanted to be a comedy writer, and that's how I ended up in America. I'd written a script that I'm only now finally getting back to and finishing and hopefully selling the summer. But that's how I got signed to management, and then they were the ones that sent me to the good place, and then it changed the course of my life. And I have no idea that I would love acting. This is, like, such a fun. Like, I feel like so many facets of your life are like a fun, like party trick story. Like, I would have never guessed that. That's so cool.

Do you ever, do you ever DJ or do anything like that? Not anymore. I, like, he's so good that it made me not want to do it anymore. To be perfectly honest. I was like, oh, okay, never mind. Yeah. You know, I also sing, but I'm not going to fucking sing now that I've heard him sing. Yeah.

Like, no, no, thank you. I'm good. I'm good. I've been, I've been forever. humbled. Wait, did I read that you produced some, an album or something like that? Yeah, I produced some of his music, yeah, which is a little bit awkward, because some of the songs are about me. And that is really just, you see a pituitary of narcissism, isn't it? Truly, truly. Are they, like, good about you, or is he, like, complaining about you in the songs?

It's a mixed bag. It's mostly nice. I was really laughing the other day, thinking back to this time, he wrote this song with Travis Scott, and they were, like, Travis was dating Kylie at the time, and James are dating me and they're like singing about their girl friends and Travis's like oh she's so fucking sexy like big with a big bum like ass fat than a peach or something

and James's lyrics are more just sort of like you're such a lovely person because I just don't have a sexy vibe and I bless him for not faking it bless him for not like you know keeping up appearances it's just like she's such an understanding person oh my gosh that's so good

James's lyrics and so like yeah But Travis is so randy in his lyrics. No, they're mostly lovely, wonderful songs. And then a few of them were like at the beginning when we were a bit edgy with each other. And he quoted some of my angry lines from my emails to him. And I'm like, that's publishing. I didn't pay rent for months after that. I was like, you owe me money.

Oh my gosh. At least he like is talking about the important qualities because the physical ones will fade. They will fade. They will. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

No one's writing a song about my ass and that I can promise you. And that's okay. It's fine. We're okay with that. I love that. You are truly just one of the very few famous people that are like, quote unquote, still normal. Like I feel like you're just so authentically yourself. Do you feel like adjusting to fame, was there an adjustment period for you?

Yeah. I think just not being such a... two other famous people. No, what I mean by that is, when I first, you know, got famous, I didn't understand I was famous. I just thought that I could just still continue to have completely no filter publicly. And I was just a little asshole when I was 22. And so I thought it was really, I really hated celebrities.

I still do. But I'm calmer about it now. And I used to just be really rude about it. everyone and I didn't know I was one day going to, you know, fucking meet them. Yeah. That didn't feel very good. Um, so I think that was one of them. It's just, just understanding that, uh, you have more power, you have more responsibility, you have more platform. You have to learn how to wield that power responsibly. Um, whereas I was like, I'm a little comedian. Um, and just ended up offending loads of people. But I also think it's good and I don't shy away from that part of my history because

I think it A means that I have a right to talk about trolls because I was one and I understand what a dark mental place you have to be in to even go online and say something horrible to a stranger or about a stranger. But I also think it shows that if I can grow and change from being a misogynist prick to being who I am now who fights for women all the time, then anyone can change. I'm a very big advocate for believing in change because otherwise what is the point of activism. We seem quite hope. We don't seem to have a lot of hope in faith in people anymore. Yeah. And because I've grown up so much in front of my own eyes and in front of the world, and it's kind of immortalized forever in the media, I find that quite reassuring because

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join b lbd.com slash squeeze i am curious how i mean you seem like a very strong person and you seem like you you know you think what you think like you know what you want just that type of personality have have you always been that way is that really who you are that's it's really who i am i don't think i was always that way because i think when you're young especially you really want to find your people so you're much more willing to be malleable, you know, with your personality to fit in. And then as you get older, you find the people who matter to you and no one else really matters that much. And so I've kind of got my friends, my dogs and my boyfriend. And if they like me, I'm good. I don't really need a bunch of, you know, getting older, one of the

joys are getting older is realizing that you actually hate everyone. So why would you need them to like you? It's fantastic to get old and grumpy. I'm almost 40 and I despise everyone. And so now it's like, great. You don't like me. I don't like you either because it's perfect. It's so weird if I would want you to like me when I don't like you. So it's a joy and it's a relief.

But yeah, it was, you know, I think the amount of media manipulation when you're a woman with an opinion was something that I've always found really, really difficult stomach because it's the lies. handle when I get in trouble and I did something wrong, it stings a little bit, but they sort of fades because you're like, okay, well, I learned from this. And actually, I'd rather know this than not know this. But when it's just made up bullshit or taken out of context or, you know, hyperboised, that gets me, like, riled up because that's framing that is so unjust. And I think justice is truly like the driving force in my life. It's not as much compassion for other people as it is truly just justice and logic. Yeah.

And not giving people equal human rights is not just hideous and immoral, but it's also illogical and it leads to broken societies. So I hate the lies that the media inflicts upon women. We lie to protect men and we lie to demonize women. Yeah. And that is something that really bugs me. But I've, you know, again, as you get older, you just don't care as much. You're like, you know what?

It's just not actually my job. to be liked or believed or appreciated. I'm just going to do what I want to do. And everyone else can really just get fucked. Yeah. It's honestly, it's such a freeing feeling to really, like to really actively live that out,

to not care what other people's opinions of you are to not feel like you have to please everyone. It's not even not caring though. It's like I do care. Yeah. But I'm not going to, but I'm going to allow myself the space and the grace to figure this out at my own speed,

not at the speed of the internet. Yeah. You know? And so I think that's just really important, that I know that I'm going to be wrong sometimes, or I'm going to be behind, or I'm going to be out of touch because I'm a fucking celebrity, and I'm going to be tone deaf and I'm going to make mistakes,

but I'm going to keep trying. And I know my long game. I know the long-term vision. And everyone else doesn't have to. And there's many people who, when we look back at their lives, we're like, oh, no, she was actually okay. We just didn't give her or him the time. to figure it out.

Yeah. And so I know are my best, that I have the best, everyone's best interest at heart. And I don't really need to prove that to anyone now. If anything, performing perfection for everyone is just going to slow me down. And so I make the most progress when I'm not tap dancing for everyone's projections and needs. Yeah. And I have made a lot of progress in the work that I do for human rights and stuff. And so I'm just carrying on doing my thing and keeping the vanity out of it.

Yeah. I love that. You are a huge advocate for body neutrality and really just speaking against diet culture and where our society is at today with it. But when you were younger, you really struggled with body image and eating disorders. When did that start for you? I was 11 when I developed an eating disorder and it was kind of heroin chic and it was very normalized. So I didn't even know it was an eating disorder. I just thought it was discipline and that I was a good girl. and that I was clever whenever I could find out ways to starve myself or to work off my calories. And it consumed about 20 years of my life, I would say, thinking about it.

I was a very boring, very out of touch person. You know, navel gazing just makes you very tedious because you spend all of your time thinking about calories and really thinking about your body and you and how to lie to people and evade, you know, the truth. And it's this dark secret that you carry that you hide from everyone. And it's the shame and this guilt and this grief. It's really all-consuming. And so when I managed to fight my way out of that eating disorder, I think I just made it my mission to try to liberate as many other people as I could

because I've done so much damage to my body, you know, to my bone density and to my vital organs. And I just don't want anyone else to end up like me in any way. You know, I sometimes women are like, oh, you make me want to cut bangs and I'm like, don't do it. Don't be like me. But yeah, I've, I had to do EMDR therapy and just took time and I'm really just understanding the system that taught me to hate myself that made me stop hating myself.

Once you uncover the sort of, you know, the matrix of it all. Yeah. Not to sound like a Manosphere podcaster, but you know what I mean? Like when you start to understand it, like, oh, this is a scam. It's a dirty little scam. invented by men who don't fit the beauty standard who own these companies that they want us to buy stuff from and women are 80% of the market.

So if women keep the economy going because we buy stuff all the time, the fastest way to make sure that women keep buying stuff is to make them always feel like they need something. What do they need? Oh, let's tell them that they're ugly and they're too fat and they're too old forever. And every time they meet a beauty standard, let's change it again.

So that we can keep them feeling like something's broken and then we can sell them the salve to fix it. And that to me is so offensive that I think out of spite I got better. That's the strong personality. Well, it's just like, it's just, again, it's the logic. It's like, well, I don't want to fund this man who benefits off my horrible thoughts. And whenever I hear them, I just think of these, this kind of like border of men who are laughing at women. Yeah.

Laughing at the way that we rush to every trend and we panic and we do the short cut because we're so desperate to meet the beauty standard now. without realizing it's just going to change again. It always changes and it goes round and around and a loop of the same six beauty standards. And, you know, we'll be out of this moment into the next before you can even think, before you can even blink. And so out of spite. And I think part of it for me with body neutrality was just like, it's, A, it's very hard to love something that society's teaching you to hate. That just gives you another thing to fail at. But also, I just don't want to think about my body at all.

I don't want to think about how much I love it or hate it. I want to think about something more interesting that isn't. about me or that's at least about nourishing my brain and protecting myself and building an amazing life for my old lady's self. I'm very uninterested in whether I like or don't like some fucking bones and fat. Who cares? It's matter. Life is about experience. I'm not going to remember this on my deathbed. I am going to remember, you know, I don't know, doing fun, filthy things in Italy. Yeah. It's so true. I'm like, just hearing you say all of that. I mean, first of all, thank you for sharing it. But also,

like, I just don't know. I rely on my husband actually so much when it comes to this type of stuff, because he is like the most, like, all natural, loving, like, I don't feel like I have to shave my legs. I don't feel like I need to get filler. I don't, like, he is so, like, I got Botox once and he was like, why are you doing that? Why are you getting that? Like, he's so, he just loves me for me. loves like if I have a little extra something on the hold. He like and it's it's really nice for me to have that when I feel like the noise is so loud especially with social media of how we need to look and act and all these things and I'm so thankful that I have a partner that is yeah same yeah that's just like no like you're actually beautiful like the way you are you don't need to you don't need to do this like I remember

one time I was like I think I want to get a little lip filler and he was like what are you doing no you're not you're not doing that. No, he's like, go, go, go, go line them. It's so interesting that so many of the beauty standards are reinforced by people who are, I sound like such an asshole when I'm about to say this, and I'll regret it later, but, you know, publish and be damned. It's like a lot of people who are single and unhappy are the ones perpetuating and pushing the beauty standards on their followers.

And I'm like, I think we need to hear from more people in happy relationships. Yeah. You know, if women are going to do this, you know, I know some women are like, I do this for myself, but we all know that's a lie because of COVID. when we all started to look like the little trolls that we really are. Yes. Okay? So just shut the fuck up.

None of this is for you. It's not to empower yourself. Yeah. You're doing this for society to be accepted. And that's okay. And we all do it. And I participate in it. It's in,

the demon is in all of us. But let's just leave it alone. We all had beards. And one single eyebrow. Yep. Like, massage. No one got filler.

And we started to actually like and embrace our real faces, which is why the beauty standard became the most insane it's ever been. The most similar to a, an AI filter it's ever been straight after the pandemic because women got dangerously self-excepting. Anyway, I think if women are doing this from a position of I want to be seen as more attractive or have more opportunities to date, we should hear from women who are actually in loving relationships. Yeah.

Because this shit just doesn't make you happy. And it is, as I said earlier, it's all consuming. It makes you boring. And my friends who have, you know, who get a lot of work done, their husbands say to me, privately how do I don't want to tell her what to do with her face and her body but I hate the way it looks and so they don't feel like they're allowed to say anything to us but also it doesn't someone who loves you for you isn't necessarily looking for you to perform this AI level of perfection yeah you know I think they want to feel like you feel accepted they love you for who you are

and they don't want to see you put yourself at risk for made up beauty standards like that are like I said invented by ugly men. Yeah. I want to hear a little bit more about your EMDR experience because I talk a lot about therapy and I did EMDR therapy. I worked as, I'm a registered nurse and I worked as a COVID nurse during COVID and I had a lot of PTSD from it and I did EMDR for that. But whenever someone does EMDR, I'm so curious to hear how that experience was for them. How long after, how old were you when you did EMDR. 29. Okay.

How was your experience with it? Great. Super fast. I was in and out three months. I only meant to go once or twice, you know, for my, I was afraid of the dark because I was abused as a child in the dark. And I couldn't sleep in the dark my whole life. And it was really exciting to piss off people that I would go to bed with because then

they couldn't sleep either. And so I was moving to America and I was like, you know what? I'd really like to not go with this terror. you know, of someone being in my house or doing something to me at night. And so I went to EMDR and EMDR for me was very quick and felt kind of like, you know, I'd never had talk therapy before. And then I tried a bit of talk therapy and then I tried EMDR and the way I would maybe discuss the two. And I'm obviously not an expert.

This is just my personal experience is that talk therapy felt like therapy. PUTic services for a mental health problem and surgery, sorry, and EMDR felt like having surgery to cut the problem out of me so that I didn't have to do the work all the time. You know, a lot of what I found in therapy was me having to learn skills to cope with the trauma every time it would surface. And what EMDR felt like was it removed the trauma from my brain and from my thought patterns so that I didn't have to do that work every day so that I never even had to bring my nervous system down because my nervous system wouldn't get activated in the first place. And an example of that is my terror of the dark. You know, I was, the reason I started the

MDR was to deal with the fact that I couldn't sleep in the dark at night because I was abused in the dark as a child. And so I went to this woman and we imagined the worst things that could happen to me that did happen to me or could happen to me in the dark. And I left and I kind of didn't feel anything. And I thought, oh, it felt a bit like a waste of money or maybe, you know, I can't be hypnotized. I'm not good at meditating. Maybe I just don't have the right brain for it. And then I went one more time and again, we did the same thing. And I didn't really feel anything when I left.

And I went home and went to bed and then woke up the next morning and realized, oh my God, I turned all my lights off and didn't triple lock my door and didn't check under any of the bed or in any of the cupboards, which I used to routinely obsessively do. So it just kind of left me really undramatically, like a thief in the night. It was just gone. Wow. And I never had a problem sleeping in the dark by myself ever again. It almost made me too brave because then one time shortly afterwards my house got broken into and I just walked into the house and there could have been someone in there. And my boyfriend was like, too much EMDR. Wow. That's amazing. That's such a good analogy because I actually feel that. I've never thought about it that way. But now that you say it, I mean, me and my husband both go to talk therapy just to. Yeah, I think everyone who can accessibly tell someone there were secrets and not have them throw it back in their face during an argument later should do talk therapy.

Yeah. We'd have less war if people were doing talk therapy if it was accessible for everyone. For sure. You know, I'm just saying when you have like a trauma that needs to be addressed soon. Yeah. For me, EMDR, you know, it's quite intense, but I did it in three months. I got rid of all my main issues. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I think I did it for about a month. obviously mine was a lot different than yours. And I think most people that do it, I think it was easier for me. My husband tried it. He didn't really like it. Respond. Yeah, no, everyone does.

But for me, I think it was, I think it was really helpful too because I, a lot of my trauma came from being in the hospital and, you know, I developed like claustrophobia from it. and just all of these little things that came from it. And I know that I'm not going to be working again in that because I quit my hospital job. So I know that that threat, when I was doing it, it was a lot easier for me to put myself in that. Put me right back into working and into where that trauma was because I know that that's not going to be something that I'm going to have to deal with hopefully ever again. One of the things that keeps a lot of us from actually going to the gym is not knowing where to start or if your workouts will even actually give you a workout.

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Okay, let's talk about your amazing project that you have. Is it move your mind? Move for your mind. And I also have a podcast coming out on Wednesday, which I have to talk about. Yes, we're going to talk about it after, don't worry. Yeah, no, I have a project called Move for Your Mind. It's kind of an extension of Eyeway. which was a company I started to, you know, challenge the way that women are reduced to nothing,

but, you know, a number on a scale. And that's evolved into an exercise movement. Because I feel like lots of people are doing, you know, there's loads of safe spaces on the internet now for body neutrality or for body positivity. So I like to fill in gaps that I don't think are filled yet. I don't see the point in just trying to, I don't know, I'm not trying to become like a media mogul. I really just want to create safe spaces. And a safe space I realized was missing on the internet was exercise that isn't around

weight loss. And exercise is so imperative and has, you know, walking every day or gentle exercise has completely changed my mental health. And they say something like 150 minutes of exercise a week has has similar impacts to an SSRI. And so you think about how many people can't afford or can't access mental health care at the moment. It's like, well, I have a way that you can at least start on that journey.

of regulating your hormones and your mental health hormones, like dopamine, endorphins, etc. But people don't do it because we associate, we associate, we associate it with weight loss and we associate it with fitness and with the exterior, which is the least important thing that it has anything to do with. It's the least interesting or important thing. You know, you have to move your body for 15 minutes and nine seconds before you start to get the mental health benefits of it and the endorphin release. And so people think it's this big ordeal and you have to drive half an hour to the gym and then go to the gym for at least an hour and then you have to drive back and you have to have a shower and you have to wear a matching outfit and you have to look

cute and you have to be ready to be on camera and this whole culture and it's bastardized exercise and turned it into this very performative thing that actually is just a pivotal part of your life and we are on phones and everything's delivered to us we don't go to the post office anymore we don't go to the supermarket we don't do so many of the things we used to do we get in our cars and we you know we don't move and a lot of us live and where you can't really move. I lived in LA and I don't think I went for a fucking walk for a decade. And so I wanted to create a safe space with really great accessible trainers who look like you,

where you can exercise without being given toxic information about, hey girls, let's get our beach body ready and all this bullshit that we're told. It's just about the joy of movement, the privilege of being able to move your body. Yeah. I love that you're doing that because I relate to it so much. I definitely feel like I go through waves of it, but what you said is so true. And I feel like when you start working out because you want the beach body, because you want whatever this thing that society is telling us, it's actually not like, I'll try it for like a week and a half. And then I end up giving up because I'm like, nah, like it's not.

my intention behind it isn't a pure one and I think when you go into movement and working out with the intention of this is actually like for my mental health and I'm doing it for an internal outcome not a physical outward outcome it's a lot more sustainable and honestly like go ahead yeah but well I'm sorry I was just going to say that's also it's we need motivation we are motivational creatures we we like instant rewards especially now we want that instant gratification So if you're waiting for those abs or that ass or losing 100 pounds, it's very, very difficult to stay motivated because those changes happen very, very slowly. Yeah. But when it's, oh, I'm going to feel better than I did half an hour ago or I'm going to sleep better tonight.

Those are instant results. Yeah. And that is, I think, very easy for us to get on board with comparatively. Yeah. I just worked out for the first time in quite some time the other day because I mentally was like, I need to go and like go to the gym and like walk on the treadmill and just like stretch and move my body. And I came home and I was like frick. Like I, this was actually really good. And I know that I need to do this for my mental health. I know that it will. Did you just say frick?

I did. I say frick. My husband and I were fricers. Oh my God. That's so funny. I know. That's so sweet. I know.

We say fric. I know. It's the purest thing I've ever heard. I know. He does not cuss. like really at all. And I didn't have a potty mouth, but I did cuss a little and he would be like, babe, like careful, like watch your mouth. I'm like so sorry. So now I say frick. That is. Oh my God, that is absolutely adorable. Sorry, I beg a pardon you. I love when people clock it

though, because it is funny. Like when you ever hear someone go frick, like, I haven't had an adult say frick in my entire life. It's so good. Yep. That would be we say prick. That's great. Look, fuck was my first. word. Sorry I've just said it on your podcast, but like that was my first word and I said it to all the other children at the nursery and like, you know, there were numerous complaints. So I think your children are going to get into way less trouble than I did and more power to you for that. It's so good. It's so good. We also like, please make the film meet the frickers. Please. That's funny. That's funny. They definitely should do that. No, but that I was just saying that it's, I know that I have to do that for my mental health. And it is easier to attack it that way when it is for your mental health. But also my husband is very much like, okay, hon, let's go outside. Let's go walk the dogs.

I'm like, oh, no, I got to like do these emails. He's like, bro, you need to like remove yourself from a screen. And we need to see the sunshine for like 20 minutes. You need to walk. So he's, he honestly, I would be nothing without him clearly from this interview. He's just the sunshine. He is. He's a freaking little sunshine.

He is. Yeah. I'm curious how what would you say to someone that maybe is struggling with loving their body, loving themselves, and, you know, starting to, is wanting to start moving for their mental health? Well, I mean, first of all, just try and get to 15 minutes, nine seconds a day. And I dare you to tell me you don't feel better. So just that's it. Set your timer, 15 minutes, nine seconds, dance around your kitchen.

run around with your dog. It does not have to be intense. You don't have to go out in public. Do a little YouTube dance class. Go as slow as you like. Be as bad as you are. Look as terrible as you can look. Free yourself. Don't make it as about calories. I find eating ice cream just before I exercise makes my workout better and happier. And I squat deeper and harder. So it actually benefits my exercise to eat fun snacks throughout. And so I'll take like gummy worms or something with me and I'm like before I do a set I take some gummy worms I'm not into this calories in calories out nonsense I'm all about motivation um and so I I suggest you do that and I also suggest that you give yourself the same advice that you would give to any friend which is would I ever

tell my friend she's not attractive enough to go to the gym would I ever tell my friend she doesn't she isn't good enough for this good enough for that good enough for that person she doesn't deserve to find love she doesn't deserve to love and protect her own body no I would never say that I would never say, oh, you're not a professional dancer, so you can't go to that dance class. Oh, you don't have a six-pack, so you can't go to that gym. We apply completely different rules to other people than we do to ourselves. And it's just so important that people realize it's a scam that's all about taking women's money. It's not real. And, you know, there was this great article, I think, in Time magazine recently. I think it was Time magazine that said that, you know, now that

the beauty standard, you know, is so accessible, super skinny is so accessible because of the weight loss injections. What made it an elite, beauty standard is the fact that very few people could achieve it. Now that everyone has access to it, it's probably not going to be a beauty standard for much longer. And that's really important to think about, because it's always about elitism and classism and all kinds of different things that it's wrapped up in. And I think we should just be very wary of the trends and never rush to meet any of them. I'm 40 almost and I've been around the block a lot and I've watched this happened so many times and thin comes in and out and in and out and I just can't be bothered to

participate anymore. Yeah, it's so true. Okay, let's talk about your new podcast, wrong turns. Where did this idea come from? Because you had a podcast before, right? I've had multiple podcasts. I had one called I Way that was for five years and then I did a comedy podcast called Bad Dates, which was really fun, but I left due to scheduling. And I had always wanted to make this podcast, which is called Wrong Turns, which is a disaster comedy podcast about the most embarrassing things that happen to us that have no great silver lining,

no great lesson learned. You know, it kind of goes back to what I'm saying about toxic positivity. You know, I think we're expected to find the good in everything and sometimes life gives you lemons and it's just lemons and you don't make lemonade. And I think it sets people up to feel like they failed again when you get handed

just a plate of chaos and you don't turn it into something incredible. It's like not everyone's disasters of when they shit their pants or whatever leads to them becoming some sort of biohacking, ice bath having CEO billionaire. Sometimes life is just humiliating and I think I just wanted a break from all the inspiration that's being shoved down my throat and make this kind of like an anti-inspiration pro-commiserative podcast because we're in dark times and I kind of I think I just needed a break one of you know one of my best friends died last year I was in so much grief the world was in such a mess politically and geopolitically and I I just couldn't have any more serious conversations in

every facet of my life because my work is so serious and so about humanitarian work and I wanted my podcast I just wanted something that was an outlet for escapism just for 30 minutes a week and And so we got together a bunch of the funniest people in the world and we got them to tell us their stories. And it's just been such a bonding, fun experience that I think there's just something very democratic and universal about humiliation. It will find you no matter who you are or what you look like or what you're doing. And so I think that's why people respond to this theme.

And it's just a joy. Yeah, I love that. It's so true. It's called wrong turns. And it's just about, you know, it's about. just owning the cluster fuck. Yep. The cluster frick.

Cluster frick. The cluster fricks. Yeah. I feel like this is going to carry with you for the rest of the day and you're going to... I'm never going to forget it. I love that. I'm honored. Yeah.

I'm honored. Me and my husband are frickers is my favorite thing I've heard. It gives me hope in humanity again. It's good. I'm glad. I'm glad that brings you so much joy. It does. I really love.

I really like it. Okay. So you say that. Well, that was a big thing of a good place, right? Was finding. artful ways to curse. Yeah. So I'm a big fan.

Like, you know, soak my deck. Yeah. Yeah. Mother forking shirtballs. So it's very in my DNA. That's how I know when Taylor's like upset. I still start cussing.

I'm like, oh, he means business right now. Like he's really upset. That's how I know. Whereas if I start cussing, my boyfriend goes, oh, she's just alive. Yeah. Her heart's beating. She's breathing.

Just another Tuesday. Yep. Just another Tuesday. Okay. So you say that guest on the podcast or stories where they've learned nothing. Why was it important for you to create a space that celebrates imperfection and doesn't tie everything up into this pretty nice bow? Because life is ugly and people are ugly and we're messy and we've got to stop with this fascistic perfection perversion that we have. I really can't bear it. And everything I stand

for, everything I make is about people that make mistakes. My substact. newsletter that I write is called a low desire to please based on my dog getting a bad review from his dog trainer said he's very intelligent but he has a low desire to please and I was like that is my boy he got that from me he is my DNA and so I wrote a sub I write a substack every every week that is just all of my unpopular thoughts and opinions and for some reason it's very popular and I think that tells me that we are all having ugly thoughts and feelings. Yeah. And we all have vengeance and sin and, uh, and inappropriate conduct within us. And I want to set that free. I'm sick of this, I think especially women are not expected to be vulgar or

funny or imperfect. And so I've always been very obsessed with liberating women, whether it's not looking perfect or not behaving perfectly. And I think, you know, I'm a problematic person who's made loads of mistakes, but the thing that I think I am actually a role model for, the thing I would accept being a role model for is being a woman who's willing to make mistakes who can frick up and come back from it and carry on who doesn't excuse myself from society because I've I've finally been unveiled as imperfect because I have pause or wrinkles or because I've said something inoffensive or because I just didn't know what I didn't know. You know, we can't, we don't know how to separate ignorance from evil and that is in and of itself a very ignorant thing to do when it

comes to humankind um and so i just i'm determined to show women that there's life after death the death of your reputation and when people don't find you perfect that's fine because that's often where you find the most interesting people who do actually like they really do ride with you and they they enjoy your content and so you know i might not have a hundred million followers on the internet but i've got 3.7 million people who know exactly who i am who accept that and they stand with me and they're willing to go on the journey with me and I think that that's so beautiful and I would rather have that 3.7 million which is already like I understand a ludicrously high number but I'd rather have 3.7 million people that actually like me and appreciate who I

actually am in all of my mess and my glory than 100 million followers who like an avatar of me that is a prison of perfection. I cannot imagine all the unproblematic faves in real life are also unproblematic, so us also problematic. Yeah. And they live in this, like, terror that anyone's going to find out who they really are. Yeah. And I would hate to live like that. Yeah. That's why they're so, I think, sometimes scared of being stopped in public. Yeah. It's because someone might have overheard a bit of their real personality and their real conversation and someone, like, confronts them in the world. I don't feel self-conscious when I'm out because I just am who I am. Yeah. That's so good.

I'm curious. Can you give our lemon drops? Those are our listeners. Can you give us a wrong-turned story of your own? Oh, sure. You're like, I got loads of them. Yeah, which one. Which one? Yeah, everyone tries to bury their mistakes. I write mine down. So it was during COVID when everything was virtual and all my kind of panels I was doing around activism and stuff would all be done on Zoom. And that was fine. And they asked me if I would do this one live on like YouTube live to millions and make. millions of people and I was like yeah sure doesn't matter like I'm whatever and so I'm you know I'm only dressed really from like the waist up like everyone else I'm wearing

underpants but nothing special and I'm I'm very casual about the whole thing and I have a tendency to never read emails or read my schedule properly so I never know what I'm turning up for but I always know that I'll figure it out right I just like I I I think I get off on the edge of you know total disaster I like knowing that I you know I'm in danger in some way. And so I'm also just callous and lazy. So I don't really check the email. I press the link. We start this live. There's seven people there and no one's speaking. And I'm like, why is no one speaking? This is so weird. Where is the host? And then everyone's still kind of smiling each other. But you can't tell who anyone's smiling at on Zoom. It just all looks like you're smiling at each other.

So we're all smiling and I'm sitting there and like a minute goes by of no one speaking. And I'm that is a very, very long time of dead air. And then suddenly it occurs to me, wait, am I the host? And so I suddenly fake a technical difficulty. And I start miming at the, like, mouthing at the camera. And pretending that, like, I can't hear you, I can't hear you, but not making any sound. And I just go, like, I'll be back, you know. and so I shut my laptop.

By the way, I close my laptop. I don't just leave the Zoom. So you see the camera go all the way down, my body that's only half-dressed, and then I leave. And then I quickly check my email, and it goes, you are hosting this panel. And I don't know anything about any of the people who I'm supposed to be interviewing in depth

or what their names are or anything. I was supposed to have done loads of research, and I just hadn't. So I panic. I'm like, it's now been two minutes of dead air. I'd come back on being like, hi, sorry, out of technical glitch. Why don't we go around the room and introduce ourselves?

And I have to bullshit my way through this interview for an entire hour in front of millions of people just pulling it out my ass. And it was one of the most, like, more, I did a bad job. I was more. mortified and it felt so disrespectful to the people who were on the panel. And it happened in front of millions of people. And I was not brought back by that company. And I do now read my emails. I was just going to say, do you read them now? I've, I've, I've, I've been traumatized into learning to do that, but still not enough. Yeah. Like I'm sitting on the floor right now. But I'm sitting on the floor right now. because I didn't read the email from you saying make sure you have a full battery.

And so now I'm doing this entire interview on the floor amongst my luggage. My knees are killing me. Like everything is just a wrong, like my whole life is just a tapestry of wrong turns. And I don't want to hide it. Yeah. I want to own it. I want to live my truth with the public. And so that's why I made my podcast.

And honestly, it makes it more fun. If life goes perfect, there's no fun in it. Like you can't look back and laugh at that. things. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Every, like, I believe disaster comes just before a blessing. Yep. Yep. So I'm waiting any day now. Yeah, you just, any day. Want to come down. I just walk around with my hand open at the sky, just waiting for my blessing. It never comes. Okay, last question before we do our little rapid fire segment to end, but I'm curious, what are you most proud of yourself for? Because I feel like you have accomplished so much. But is there something that really,

really sticks out to you. I think similarly to what I said earlier is like, I just refusing to go away even when people really want me to. I love that about me. I love that for me. I just carry on. I'm like a straight white man, you know? I just make mistakes.

And then I go, oh, oh no. Well, that's new information. I'm going to keep going and try and do better. And I think that straight white men have that right. I think that absolutely right to do that. And that's what I want to do. and I don't believe women should just extract themselves from society every time they make a mistake.

And I like the fact that I run at failure. I like the fact that I'm not afraid of embarrassing myself. And I think that it's weird. You know, I wrote an essay about this recently that I think it's weird that we look at the people who try and put themselves out there as egomaniacs. I look at the people who don't put themselves out there because they're so precious about criticism

that they don't want to try. Those eagomaniacs to me. I think the rest of us are just adventurers who are willing to, you know, recognize that life is not a test. Yeah. It's an adventure. It's a story. And so how are you going to write your story? I don't want to treat my life as though I'm here to get graded or judged, you know, which was the exact premise of the good place.

And it really, like, messed up my head when I was making it. And I was imagining the point system in real time all the time. But I've released myself of that. And I'm glad that. I can be that role model even to myself to prove that the world does not stop turning when things go sideways. Yeah, I love that. We recently had a guest on and I asked her the same question and she said that she became like the person that she needed when she was younger. And I really feel that for you. Yeah. Well, you know what? I've actually stopped even trying to be

that now I have flipped it and now I want to be the person. that my old lady self goes, you really did that. You really lived that life for me. Oh, that's good. And it's changed my entire existence. You know, women are not taught to protect our older lady bodies and our older lady selves because society tells us that they don't need us after we're not fertile and, you know, shaggable. And the funny thing is, is that we're one of the only mammals that go through the menopause and aren't fertile up until death. And that's because we're so needed. We've evolved to go through the menopause so that we can stop bearing children and create society and keep society running. Women are imperative and they're wise and they are,

they know what they like, they know what they don't like, they know who they are, they understand the scams of society, they understand patriarchy, they understand matriarchy and the maternal gift and, you know, the feminine divine. And that's why they're so scary. And that's why people try to silence them and erase every sign of them. That's why they used to burn them at the stake. You know, it's really terrifying. And so I, you know, I feel sad that young people are being taught to dread aging and are so obsessed with it. And dread turning 30, dread turning 40, dread turning 50.

I cannot wait to get past the menopause and go into my crone era. I keep trying to launch it prematurely because I think older women are amazing. and I want my old lady self to know that I was prepared for her and I wasn't embarrassed of her and I wasn't dreading her. I want her to know that I built a body and a life for her, you know, because my young self messed up my current self's life. Yeah. You know, I've still got health problems now, but she did.

She did that. She was enemy number one. Yeah. So I want my old lady self to not look back on me in the same way and be like, why did you do that to me? Why did you hurt me? I don't want that. So, you know.

I think men are taught to build their lives and women are taught to just panic and do whatever they have to do right now. And I think that's very dark and very sad and we deserve better. So I'm just not going to live that way. Yeah, I love that. Okay, let's do this last little segment, get you off the floor. Thank you. Yeah, I've lost a feeling in one of my feet. It's God.

It's God. Okay, so this little segment's called Lemon 7. It's just seven questions. You can rapid fire them. You can go into a monologue if you please. Okay, first question is what movie or song title best describes your mental health today? Oh, Bohemian Rhapsody, which everyone will be too young, but it's like nine songs in one, and that's how I feel at the moment. I feel like I'm losing my mind with stress and overwhelm.

So whatever that song, the more chaotic that song becomes, the more I feel like it's my daily soundtrack right now. Yeah, that's good. Number two is how open are you with people in your life when struggling? Oh, not open enough. I go completely silent and that's how everyone knows I'm in trouble is that when I stop speaking, it's a problem. And she recently, I lost my voice.

This is totally separate, but I think it's funny, for several weeks, because I had a really bad chest infection. And my boyfriend came up to me and said both the most offensive and the sweetest thing he's ever said. He was like, I thought I would like this, but I don't. Which means he loves me. He truly loves you. talking to me, but also has been silently wishing I would shut out.

Yes. Now he learned. He does not want that. No, now he's always trying to stop me from getting sick. He's like loading you up of vitamin C. Yeah, truly, truly electrolytes this and vitamin C that, yeah, zinc. That's so good. Oh, that's good.

Okay, number three, if you could follow only three social media accounts, what would they be? Oh, three. social media accounts, it would be the account dogs and then at funny animals. And what else? What else? What else? What do I look at every day? Oh yeah, the shade room. I like to be very pure and then very toxic. Yeah. I did. I watch you. I watch your story today and I was like cracking up you just like reposts the funniest things on there. I repose the maddest things on there. Yeah. I just really just like gives you a sense of my algorithm and it's really just like dogs and gossip. Yeah. And that's it. That's what I live for.

I'm not I'm not a profound human. Yeah. I want to say something cool. I like kneel de grass, whatever his faces, but I don't. I just want gossip. I want celebrity gossip and I want dogs. That's it. Yeah. You want the juice and you want it. Yeah. That's all a girl can ask for. Yeah. All a girl could ask. for. Thank you. Number four is what is your favorite form of self-care? My favorite form of self-care is cuddling in bed with my dogs and my boyfriend. That to me is the ultimate self-care. It's what keeps me looking and feeling young and happy. Really, I find kind of active skin care self-care just to be more work and I can't be bothered and it's really expensive. But rest and joy

with my dogs and my boyfriend is, while we're all snacking, is unbelievable to me. So that's my ultimate form of soccer. And I carve out time in every day to do that. My boyfriend and I refer to it almost as a ceremony. You know, it's an imperative part of our day. And it's very bad, if anything, gets in the way of that. This is a side note. But how many dogs do you have?

I'm a dog person. Two. Oh, my gosh. I'm obsessed with them and I haven't seen them in six weeks. And I'm going, out of my mind yesterday, I was walking past a picture of a dog outside of vet, and I blew it a kiss, like, involuntarily. And I was like, I need to go home. I need to go back. I'm so sorry.

That's so long. Yeah, it's so long. And I'm being a real, like, dog pervert now. I'm going to the dog park, but I'm like that guy that turns up at the kiddie park without a kid, you know, like, I don't have a dog with me. So I'm starting to freak people out in Central Park. Oh, my gosh. You're just silly there. Yeah.

As the city bear, so I'm a dog pervert now. And I just keep asking, I'm going up to people in the street and just asking if I could like pet their dog. I'm being really creepy. Oh, we need to get you home. I really, I'm obsessed with them. I need to get home. I'm home in 10 days and I truly cannot get there fast enough. I'm only there for a week and I already want to cry.

Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, I hope you just stay in bed the whole time with them. Okay, number five is what is the most misunderstood thing about you? Oh, that I give a shit to what you think I couldn't give a shit to what you think That's it I don't want to hurt your feelings

But I couldn't give a shit what you think Yeah, respectfully Yeah, I'm so uninterested I'm so uninterested in impressing Truly anyone other than my dogs That's it That's they think the world of me And that's all it matters

I'm not interested In what you think about my hair Or my face or my weight Or how I choose to learn and choose to try to help people. I'm taking in the information that I think I need, but whether or not you like me or think I'm annoying, go away. No one cares. You know what? Now I don't like you. So we're even. Yeah. Yeah. It's not relevant to me whether or not you find me palatable. If you think something I'm doing is dangerous, let me know. Yeah. But if you just don't like how I am,

it's not my problem. That's your problem. That's a case thing. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Number six is who's at most positive impact on your mental health? The person who's had the most positive impact on my mental health is my boyfriend of 11 years. He has taught me how to prioritize being calm, being well. He's reinstated the value of life to me and he's made me want to live when I didn't. And he's just built this world around me that is so safe and fun and comforting and he's just my best friend in the whole world. and so he's yeah he's my safe space and and he's the person who's probably most fixed my brain

I love that it's so special okay last question if you can go back to one moment in your life what moment would that be and what would you say to yourself uh oh when my school teacher tried to weigh me well no weighed me in front of my entire class um what and that that She was a substitute teacher and she was trying to teach the maths class about how to gain data to build a pie chart. And so she was like, this is a way to gather data and she weighed all of us. And I was the heaviest and the tallest in the class. And that's the day that kicked off my 20-year eating disorder. I would go back to that day and I would pick up the scale and beat her over the head with it instead of standing on it.

Because I would just go to juvenile detention and then it wouldn't go on my long-term record. So that's what I would do. I would smash her over the head with the scale and then run out of the school. And that would have saved my life. Yeah. Oh my gosh. So that's what I would do differently. It's very violent, it's eventual, but I'm an ugly person.

I've said that. It's for the best, honestly. That would have been a better outcome. I think a little bit of juvenile detention is good for all of us. A little juvie could have been some help. Yeah, I would have been a better person. Oh my gosh. Well, this has been so fun.

I've loved getting to learn more about you. and I just love your outlook on life. And you just don't take things too serious. And it's so refreshing how authentic you are to yourself. And you're just like, I am who I am. Don't care. Yeah. As I said, life is not a test.

I'm not here to pass anything. I'm just here to do my best. And that's it. And I'm working at my own scale, at my own level. I'm not on anyone else's lane. I'm just doing my own thing. There are 9 billion people all in their own separate lanes. We are not competing with each other.

We do not have a monolithic standard. We're just here to build experiences so that when we're old and everyone leaves us by the window, we have fun memories to look back on. Yeah. So that's the plan. It's so nice to meet you. You too. Thank you so much.

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