The Squeeze - Kameron N. Saunders: Redefining the Mold

Episode Date: August 5, 2026

In this week's episode, Tay sits down with dancer and choreographer Kameron N. Saunders! Kameron opens up about what it's like working in an industry where your body is both your instrument and something constantly being evaluated, including his relationship with body image in a dance world where his body type may not fit the "typical" mold and the advice he'd give to anyone struggling with insecurities of their own. Kameron talks about his first tour, what it looks like to prioritize mental health on the road as a dancer, and what it was like joining The Eras Tour with Taylor Swift. He gets into what those first few shows felt like with thousands of people in the audience, the pressure that came with it, and how performing for a crowd never once felt like work. He also shares when he started therapy and what made him take that step, as well as his relationship with social media. Kameron wraps up by reflecting on what he wants this next chapter to reveal about him, what he hopes people remember about him beyond the performances and choreography, and what he's most proud of in himself!Be sure to follow Kameron on https://instagram.com/kamnsaunders/!To email us your questions or share your story, you can reach out to [e-mail] sure to rate, review, and follow the podcast so you don't miss an episode! Plus, follow us on all of our socials:The SqueezeInstagram: https://instagram.com/thesqueeze/TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@thesqueezepodcastTay LautnerInstagram: https://instagram.com/taylautner/TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@mrstaylautnerAmazon Storefront https://urlgeni.us/amazon/FDXj7 Taylor LautnerInstagram: https://instagram.com/taylorlautner/TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@taylorlautnerTo learn more from The Lemons Foundation, follow https://instagram.com/lemonsbytay/ and visit https://lemonsbytay.comEpisode Sponsors:Go to lululemon.com right now. New styles drop all the time and the colors go fast, so don't wait.Go to ButcherBox.com/squeeze to get $20 off your first box, plus your choice of free ground beef for life, or free chicken thighs or top sirloins in every box for a year, with free shipping always. Find your nearest Ross at RossStores.com.Check out staples.com/TheSqueeze for the most wonderful deals of the season.Find Primal Kitchen dressings, sauces, and condiments at your local grocery store or on Primalkitchen.com. Primal Kitchen - made for real food.Shop Honest on Amazon, Walmart and Target.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Wait, who's he? And are they dating? Wait, and she just kissed all of them. Wait, what is happening here? I hate kitten heels. I despise a kitten heel. Either be a flat or a stiletto.

I am probably not one to pass that type of judgment. I see a kitten heel, and I'm like, this has aspirations of being a real heel. I never felt like I was working not. once. It was heaven. The entire experience, my coworkers, my boss. There were days where I was tired. Oh, my God, yes. But it never felt like a job. It never felt like a chore to do. I would do it again today. Like, that's how perfect that was. I was very aware that I was not like a lot of the other people in the classroom, whether that meant teachers kind of would not talk to me or like walk by me as they would correct someone. else, just certain things on how classrooms were run that made me oftentimes feel othered. We are conditioned to believe that dancers should look and move and be and act and think a certain way. It's something I'm actively combating, staying inspired in a field that was not made for you can be rough.

Lemon Drops, welcome back to a very exciting episode of The Squeeze. I am so excited about this episode because I have been wanting to interview this guest for quite some time. I have heard nothing but amazing things about him and my time with him really stood true to that. And I would love to introduce to you Cameron N. Saunders. He is one of the most iconic dancers to Grace the Ere's Tour stage. That is how I was originally introduced to Cam. He is such a lovely. light such a joy and that feeling that you get watching him dance is truly just the same feeling you get by sitting in a room just talking one on one with him. We had such an intentional conversation. Obviously, we talked about Cam's background and dance where his love for dance came from.

We talk about touring and what it was like being a part of one of the biggest tours, if not the biggest tour ever in history of touring and what that was like on his mental health as a performer. He also shared with me where he's at in his mental health journey what that has looked like over the years and we really dove into body image and the standard that is in the dance industry of dancers' bodies needing to look and move a certain way and how Cam has really just taken that head on and how that's been for him throughout his whole dance. career before he became a professional dancer and how that is on him still now to this day. We talk about his relationship with social media, but also his relationship with his self-worth

and how that has evolved over the years. This was one of my favorite conversations that I've had in quite some time just because I already knew I loved Cam and I completely just fell in love with him even more. You guys are going to love him and adore him. And I'm so excited for you lemon drops to learn more about him and his story and where he came from and where he's going, not just as this backup dancer that we all saw on this iconic tour. So without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this episode as much as I did. Cam, welcome to the squeeze. I'm so happy to be here. This is so fun. I'm so excited to get in chat, get to sit down and chat. I have heard nothing but wonderful things about you from so many people. So I'm excited to just like dive deeper into your story and find

out who you are and have our lemon drops. Those are our listeners. Yes. Our lemon drops. Hi lemon drops. Yeah, you're sorry. So we start off each episode with this jar. Okay. It's a little game called Citrus Got Real. If you want to pull a piece of paper out of there and read it to us. And it'll be our fun question. Oh, gosh. Should I be scared? I hope not. Okay. Because I also answer the question. Oh, good. Okay. What's something everyone seems to love that you secretly hate?

This is Oof. Oh, I know mine. You know yours? What's yours? Well, I guess I don't secretly hate it, but I just haven't, I just can't get into it. Mm-hmm. Love Island. Okay.

Okay. With that, Love Island, I was like vehemently. Like, I'm not watching that show. I don't, I just, I didn't understand it. Yeah. And then. My best friend made me start watching the most recent season. I think he put, like, I was like episode five or something.

And I was like, I would pass the TV as it was on. I was like, I'm not watching this. Wait, who's he? And are they dating? Wait, and she just kissed all of them. Wait, what is happening here? And the next thing I know, I watched the entire. season and it was good.

Okay. Then I just, it's so many nights. It is. I think that's my problem. It's just so many nights. And then I miss like two nights and then I'm trying to catch up and then I like miss another. But then there are like the, the recap, like there is like a night off a week. And then one of those nights is a recap of something or something like that.

Okay. But yeah. Okay. So you're like those, the TikToks I see of like the husbands that are like a of the girls watching their, like, off-campus somewhere. I turned pretty shows, and the husband's just, like, lingered. I literally, like, that's how it started. And then I was the one that's like, okay, everyone get home so we can watch this.

Yeah. Like, it became a thing. Okay. I'm, I'll give it another shot. I'm not, we actually were going to give it another shot this season, but then we were traveling. And I just, it was like, I'm not going to try to make the commitment. But I, I don't. Yeah, I know.

It's a good TV. I need to. And the girls this season, girl power base. I love them. I'm obsessed. Yeah. Okay, wait. That I secretly hate.

Um, I would say, okay, I'm probably going to get shit about this, but I hate kitten heels. I despise a kitten heel. And I don't wear, I'm not, you know, but I don't know what it is. What is it about it? I think it's aesthetic. Like, I think that there's this, like, I'm like either be in a flat or a stiletto. And I am probably not one to pass that type of judgment. I should not be that person.

It's so good. But I am because I just, I see a kitten heel and I'm like, this wants, this has aspirations of being a real heel. What if it's a close toe, like, pointed kitten? Is there one that's better? Because I don't do the open toe, but I do the, I do the, like a pointy closed toe. Yes, sling back. Yeah. You can get amongst that?

I can. Okay. I can't. It's really, I think it's about the shape, the silhouette of the heel. But if I, oh, God, I don't know. I just can't. Oh, they are going to eat me alive for saying kitten heels. But I just.

Yeah. I'm not going to look at my kitten heels the same now. I'm so sorry. It's okay. I can't fit them anyways. I don't put them up pastries his feet, so I'm not wearing them. That's okay. That's okay.

Yeah. Hopefully I forget. By the time the swelling goes back down. Awesome. Okay, well, I want to start with talking about dance. Yes. Because I love you dance and I love watching you dance. Yes, thank you.

But when, I want to start from the beginning. When did dance start for you? Okay. I remember dancing very young, but like, you know, family communal sort of spaces. Yeah. I didn't start taking class until I was around middle school age. My mom, when I was really young, my mom started taking West Africa, these sort of community, West African-based dance classes, and she would bring my brother and I loved it.

Like the drumming was so loud. The energy was so perfect. And I would kind of just run around in the space. And that teacher later became a mentor of mine. But it wasn't until I got into middle school. She enrolled me in a Performing Arts Middle School. And you got to choose your electives. And my sixth grade year, I chose acting and band.

Hated it. Hate it band. Yeah. Love the acting class. Yeah. But then all the cool kids. kids were doing dance and mass media, which was essentially a photography class. Got it.

And I was like, I want to do that. Like, I don't, I'm just going to go and be with all the cool kids. And I was like, this is perfect. Tap, jazz, ballet. It was, it was through the school. So it wasn't like super intense training. Yeah. But that's where I met a lot of my current friends was in.

in that school. And then I got to high school, and there's a performing arts high school that all of those friends I met went to. And my mother was not having it because of the education. Okay. And she wanted me to go to this really academic high school. And I was like, no, I want to dance. And I knew very clearly that that was what I wanted to do.

And so I was trying to flunk myself out of the academic school. school so that I could go to the performing arts school with all my friends. Because my school, our grading scale, went A, B, C, F. We didn't have D's. Oh. And so, and if you had two or more Fs on your report cards, so anything under 70%, they kicked you out. Like that. Oh, wow. And so I was like, okay, well, I know I want to dance, and she's not letting me go to the school.

So I'm going to flunk out. And I was like actively not doing homework. I was actively not. It was, and I'm a nerd, it was terrible. Yeah. And so I, she was like, if you stay here, let's, we'll find you dance outside of school. And I didn't know that that existed, like training at studios. I had no idea that that was a thing.

So then I started training. I was in nine classes a week throughout high school. I went to college for it. And that became my, like, thing. I was like, I'm going to dance. whatever the discipline, ballet, jazz, hip hop, tap, whatever it was, I knew I was going to be doing something in the realm of movement, whether I was writing about it, teaching it, choreographing it. So, yeah, that's kind of where it started. Where it started.

When you were, like, in, when you started taking those classes and when you were in college, was there something that was pulling you, like, if you could have picked, like, was it performing? Was it teaching? Or were you really just like, I love this and I'll literally do anything with it? For me, the calling was the stage. Like I knew without a shadow of a doubt that I wanted to be performing. I felt like an entertainer. I wanted to be with lights on me and costumes with makeup and music is going. And I was, you know, living my best performance life.

and I quickly realized that the industry was not for people that were built like me. So I was like, well, if y'all won't see me in this way, then I'll teach and I'll choreograph. And I kind of fell into those out of spite. And I was like, oh, I'm actually kind of good at this. And so my passion for teaching and choreography developed. It wasn't something that kind of that was innate like performing was. But yeah, that was the, I knew, and I still know that being on stage is like it for me.

But the other sort of avenues around dance, excuse me, I kind of fell into later. And I love them equally, but I didn't start that way. Yeah. I want to know being, were you a dance major in college? So that was my original major. I danced growing up like my whole life and I was a dance major originally before I switched to nursing. Really? The 11 drops are like, we know.

Also, I hate leading with, I used to dance. But no, that's what I did. I danced my whole life. And I went to college for dance and then I ended up switching and doing nursing. Yeah. Love that. That's, I loved like hearing all that. But I want to know because this is what I struggled with.

Being a dance major was it, it took a lot of the, like, and I don't know if it, it could have just been like the school or like what I had going on in my life. But it took a lot of the, like, passion for dance out of it because it was just so much. I was getting graded on everything. And also, you know, it's just the very, like, modern. And like, you're like, maybe your buddy. You're like, no, like, I love performing. I'm like, I'm like, ready to, like.

do actually do something. So it took a lot of the like love that I had for dance out of it. Did you struggle with that at all? Because I know that I'm, I have friends that, you know, were also dance majors and they struggled with that. Of like finding the balance of it being something.

Because growing up, it was always like an outlet for me. Because I didn't do it. I didn't go to like performing art school, but I did studio my whole life. Oh, love. So it was always the thing like, after school I got to do for fun and it was like my outlet.

And then when it became my school, it was like, oh, like, this isn't really my outlet anymore. Yeah. I fully understand that because a lot of my peers, both in high school and then once I got through college of quite a few of them burnt out. And I think that that is testimony to the culture of what's being asked. of dancers in collegiate spaces in any space, to be honest. But especially at that time, you know, a lot of people, a lot of my, I didn't start like training, training until much later. But a lot of my friends and peers were like dancing at three and four and dancing with so

much abandoned and passion. And then you get into these spaces and they're like, you know, your hips are not the best. You have your butt is too big or you need to cross your thighs move. or why can't you have a, you know, stretch your feet better and, you know, higher dimmy point and more turn. Like, it gets really analytical and it can burn people out because of things that they may or may not be able to help. And so for me, I was like, I was not flexible. I did and do not have the best feet. I, you know, I'm not much of a turner, but I was overly passionate.

and it still am about the craft. Being in class, I loved. Being in a rehearsal, I loved. It just so happened that I was being graded for this thing. Yeah. And I could care less what the grade was because I enjoyed the studying the craft of performing dance, whatever the discipline was.

And so that kept me, I think it separated sort of the you must do this and you must look like this and you must be here at this time. And it sort of removed the pressure of dance. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Because I never saw it in that way. But I had a lot of friends who did.

And so I watched in real time how that can break a person down. ways. Yeah, for sure. You mentioned also your body image and struggling with that with dance. How was that effect on you? Did that happen or did you start to feel that when you went to college and started maybe like performing more? Was that something you had always kind of dealt with? Always. And not so much when I was doing dance in middle school, but once I was I got to high school and I found dance outside of school. Yeah. I was very aware that I was not like a lot of the other people in my room in the classroom.

Whether that meant teachers kind of would not talk to me or like walk by me as they would correct someone else or, you know, I just certain certain things on how classrooms were. run that made me oftentimes feel othered, whether intentional or not. Yeah. And so that was something that has always been a part of my dance journey because we, you know, our condition to believe that dancers should look and move and be and act and think a certain way. So it's something I'm actively combating. Yeah, I was going to say, how is that kind of more?

as you've now grown in yourself and become hopefully more confident in who you are. Absolutely. I've had the best support system. My mother, my brother, and my friends are like my bedrock. Yeah. And so I'm often reminded of my power in the face of insecurity, And even now, like I'm way more empowered and I know my, my strengths. I know, you know, what I mean to people who look and feel like me and who see themselves in me. I'm quite aware of that. And I hold that very, very close to my heart.

But it wasn't always that, you know, staying inspired in a field that is not, was not made for you. can be rough, you know? So it has morphed. Things have changed. And I'm way more present to my power in whatever body I have. This one, the body I had when I was in college and I was super tiny and I still thought I was overweight. The body I'll have 10 years from now. I'm my worth inside of the craft and as a person does not change because.

of what I look like. I love that. Thank you. What advice would you give for someone that might be struggling with some of those things that you have and, you know, were struggling with when you were younger? I think for me and what I suggest to anyone is find your people, find your people. You know, friends, family, chosen family. find your people and lean on them because the weight of responsibility,

the weight of whatever thing you are chasing, whether it's dance or not, doesn't stop. Yeah. It just, the more you chase that thing, the more the pressure becomes more and more dense. And so I lean on my people heavily, even when I was training. I leaned on my people. I leaned on the people that inspired me in the craft. Like one of my mentors, oh gosh, one of my mentors when I was in high school, he's a choreographer, and I wanted to be just like him.

And the studio I trained at brought him in. His name is Dorel Grand Mojee, amazing choreographer in New York City. And I admired him so much. Right before I graduated, I sent him this email, and I messaged him on Facebook. And I was like, hi. So I'm about to graduate high school. I love you and I love your work. And I would love to shadow you.

So I'm coming to New York and I need you to house me. And I need you to make sure that I'm taking care of for this week. And I'm going to stay with you. And I'm going to walk around New York City with you. Just ambitious and bold. And he's like, well, no, but I will help you in other ways. But it's like that sort of like he's now. a prominent figure for me

as an inspiration and as a mentor and as a friend and so I personally lean on those relationships to help me through any sort of uncertainty or insecurity and I would suggest people dealing with those things find the thing that gives you joy

and go after it whatever that is and bring the people with you. So they keep reminding you of that joy. So you're often like, okay, okay, this isn't, this isn't as daunting as people around me are making it seem. Sure. You know? I love that. So sweet.

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You could wear these on a beach day, out to lunch, running around all afternoon, and you look intentional and put together the whole time. What I keep coming back to is how effortlessly it is going with everything I already own. I'm not building a new outfit around it. I just reach for it whenever I want to dress easy and look good. And it delivers every single time. During pregnancy especially, that kind of piece is everything. Comfortable enough to wear all day, polished enough that I don't feel like I'm just in loungewear.

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Okay. Which feels not that long ago, but it's like pre that, pre-turing in that world, I was not, commercial work was not a thing for me. I was like, I'm going to be a company dancer. I'm going to get a job that is like stable living in one city that tours, you know, a few times a year. And I'm like, that was my thinking because that is how I was trained. Yeah. You train.

You go to college. You get your degree. You get a company job somewhere in like Chicago or New York or something. You offset that because dancers do not make a lot of money as some sort of like waiter or barista. And then you go back to school and get your master's. and then you become a professor and retire. That's the like. Yeah.

The plan a lot of people have. And I met a friend when I was living in New York and she's like, so I'm on a project. I would like for you to learn this thing and just send it into me and come to find out that was my first movie. Okay. And that film sort of catapulted me into all things. commercial work.

Okay. Which has been a ride. Yeah. I love it so much. Yeah. That's so special. I obviously want to get, I love talking about touring because whenever I have artists on talking about touring because there is so much mental health that goes into

touring that people don't realize, don't think about or forget about. So, and obviously not only like you being an artist, but also like, you're dancing literally not meant not even just mentally yeah physically also because you are dancing and doing asking your body to do so much nights on end um obviously want to talk about eras tour um because i cannot fathom what that would be like mentally and physically um as a dancer and that's like one of my obviously i've seen the show a few times yeah um that was honestly like When I go to see someone's show, I'm always watching the dancers. Obviously, it's just the dancer in me.

But I remember thinking the first show that I went to, like, what that must be like for you guys performing. Because not only is the audience huge, the Swifties, we are just one of a kind, diehard. Like the stakes, I feel like, would, like, feel so much higher. Going into that, like, what was, were you feeling pressure? I'm sure there was excitement. Like, what were those first few shows like for you? Oof. So I, it's funny because I, my friends would often ask me, like, oh, my God.

You know, 40,000, 50,000, 60,000 people to show was. that scary was, I'm like, absolutely not. Like, I eat that up. I just, the thrill of this sort of relationship of body to body, person on stage, people in the audience, like, that is so powerful and magnetic. And it's something I'm often, the feeling of that is something I'm chasing often. Yeah. in a healthy way, but it's like the thrill of that, I think, is so moving and powerful.

And so a job like that is so incredibly demanding, like you were saying, both physically and mentally. And the first few shows were, the entire run was absolutely magical. but that was my first time as a dancer on a headliner show. I wasn't an opening act. I wasn't, you know, so doing that was a new experience for me. But I wasn't, I think it found me at the time it did because I needed to be ready and I felt ready. I felt that this, everything I had done up until this point was leading me to that. And so, you know, every single night, the garage door goes up and, you know, all of us are in our wings.

And then you go through the door and the wing comes up. And that's the first time you see the audience magical. Yeah. Absolutely insane. Absolutely insane. Insane. And I don't take an experience like that lightly because it was just. I can't put into words the rush that gives you, you know, the people being transformed and watching it happen in real time.

What? Yeah. Like seeing, like actively seeing people in full tears, and, you know, in their costumes that they made at two in the morning. before they got to the stadium, like that experience, perfect. Yeah. Absolutely perfect. And I think that regardless of, not regardless, but even with what was being asked of my body, that's what you train for to be able to deliver something like that.

But it was like, I never felt like I was working not once. Not once. Not once. It was heaven, the entire experience, my coworkers, my boss, the wonderful crew that made the show happen. I never felt, like there were days where I was tired. Oh my God, yes. But it never felt like a job. It never felt like a chore to do. It didn't matter if we were on a plane for, 12, 16 hours, I was itching to be on the stage, burning to be on the stage. And, you know, even now that I've done something like that, and I'm like, okay, yes, I've done a world tour and it was fun. I can check that off my, I would do it again today. Yeah. Like, that's how perfect that was.

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. It's, I'm hearing you say that, like, makes me just smile because even just as an audience member, like you, I honestly feel like that's one of the few shows I've seen where it's just like the feeling of everyone there is such like a collective love and high. Like, and so nostalgic. And my girlfriends and I talk about all the time. We're like, can we just like go back?

Let's go back. Let's go back. Let's do it. It's just like that feeling of oneness and everyone there is just truly like loving and supportive and just like living their best life. So it's so sweet hearing that that was equally felt from performer to a viewer and vice versa. 100%. I think it's, I think about it often because you get on social media and you see people who whose lives have changed because of attending this or, you know, their moms who wanted to see this thing or their, they're, their moms who wanted to see this thing or their, their daughters or their generations at this one show.

Like, it was so incredibly perfect. And I felt every ounce of what people were feeling as it was happening. Like, I would run off stage and feel this high. And, like, in the van, headed back to the hotel or the airport or whatever, I'm still like, well, let's do it again. You know? Like it was so demanding but incredibly perfect. Yeah.

I started giggling because you're talking about when you come out of the garage with your little. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When we were at the Kansas City show, my husband came out of the doors and, like, had to walk down the thing. He's the opposite. You and I are very similar. I would live on a stage. I do not get nervous in front of people.

Yes. It is the most life-giving thing to me ever. Yes. He is like, no. I do not want to be on a stage. That is not how I do things. Yeah. So when he's on stage and these doors open, he told me he was like, I, he was like, I blacked out.

Like he was like not. Okay. And all he had to do was walk. And of course he flips because he gets nervous. And I told him we had this full conversation. I was like, you're not going to flip. You're just going to walk. But then he saw how long the freaking stages and then got nervous and then just flipped

because he was like, how do I get there quicker? I'm just going to flip. Yep. But it's just so funny hearing the difference. made me think of him just being like, it was so long that things opened. It was so right. There was so many people. So it was, that made me think of him and his fear of that.

And then hearing you be like, it was the best. Oh, babe. I'm like more. Yeah. More people. Like I think the show in, oh gosh, Melbourne, I think that per show was the most people. That was if I'm, I don't want to lie, but I feel like it was like around 90. thousand a night.

Perfect. It's so good. I'm like more. Pack of it. More. Let's put them in. It was so, I can't explain what it feels like, but it's something that really transcends just day to day. It is so magical.

I'm like, I want that. I want that in my day to day. I want to feel that sort of connection person to person, you know? Sure. How was it when the tour ended? Mm-hmm. And even between, like, between the legs was, did you ever feel a crash? Did you, were you ever like, oh, okay, like, I need a minute.

Like, what is the recovery or that, like, timeline after look like for you? Like when it was done, done or, like, on the breaks? Those are either. However, you would like. Um, so when the, when it, when it finished, it didn't feel like it finished. My body was like, when is the next show? What's, what's next? Like, it felt like something was coming also because of the, the, the, how it was broken down with, um, uh, you know, however long we would do a leg and then we'd have a,

a month or a leg and then we have a few weeks or like the breakdown of the tour I had gotten used to breaks and then going back to the thing. And so when the tour finished, I was like, this is sad. And then I said, wait, this is where it's done. We are, there's no, we don't go back. We like this is. So it felt strange because I was waiting for, you know, okay, and now we fly to Peru and go do, I was waiting for that.

And so I think that there was a very interesting come to terms with reality, mentally speaking. And I'm like, okay. Now I have to go find work. Like it was, it was, it took a second to grasp that. Yeah. Because, you know, my body was ready to go back. But it was, it was, I miss it. But that's a different conversation for a different day.

Yeah, no, I can only, I can only imagine those feelings towards missing it. Because I miss it. I know it. Oh, gosh, it was so perfect. There are certain phrases that people say sarcastically, And then one day you realize they actually just mean it. It's the most wonderful time of the year at Staples. And I'm telling you, once you become a parent or you're about to be one like me, you feel that in your bones.

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This episode is sponsored by Honest. And honestly, this one feels really personal to me right now because as someone who is expecting, I've been doing so much research on baby products lately, the amount of label reading, ingredient checking, and general overthinking I've been doing when it comes to what I'm going to use on my baby's skin is a whole new thing. And I feel like that's just what you do when you care because the decisions feel so important. That's exactly why I've been so drawn to Honest. They make baby essentials made for life's most delicate skin. And the whole brand is built around this idea that parents deserve to feel genuinely confident and what they're using on their little ones. Honest holds every product to

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Has, I know you mentioned to me that you've been in therapy for like six, seven years. Has, was that kind of the first time you were introduced to needing to mental health? I always say that I didn't, wasn't introduced to mental health fully until I actually started struggling myself. Was that at point in time when you were kind of first introduced to mental health? Yeah. I, I, I started therapy in 2019. and that was when I moved to New York

and that transition was remarkably difficult for me. Living there was hard. And my brother had just gotten drafted to the NFL and I moved that was all in the same like month.

And so I had saved up money and moved out there and I couldn't, my credit was terrible. I didn't have anything saved, save, but what I had to go and pay my bills there. And my circumstances were not the best. Where I was living was, it just wasn't great. And that was taking a toll on me.

And I didn't know that, you know, I was like, it just was hard. And I was talking to my people, like I mentioned, all of my support. And my godmother was like, maybe you should, you know, I have a friend that has a practice in Brooklyn. and maybe you should go and meet with her. And so I was like, you know, therapy is like taboo. And it's like, you don't, who needs, no one needs therapy. Like that sort of. And I went and she, my therapist, she's remarkable.

And that first meeting, I was like, this is great being able to talk about it and someone who's not invested in me. personally because of our relationship to have a wider view of my circumstances without being personally connected to it. Yeah. So I think that was my introduction into serving my mental health in a way that makes sense and keeps me on top of things, like keeps me actively choosing better for. myself and those around me.

So, yeah, I think that was up until that point, I knew of therapy. I knew people who did it, but it wasn't something that I was like, okay, I'm struggling. Let me go find help. I did that, but it wasn't, I didn't go find therapy. I went to my tribe and they were like, maybe you should. You need a little more. Go talk to this person. Yeah.

And I'm glad I did. I've been with, I've been with her since 2019. That's amazing. Yeah. I'm kind of the same. I didn't start therapy until 20, 22? Yeah. 21?

Until I was really struggling with my mental health. And I always tell people now that therapy isn't necessarily for when you're struggling. I need to do it before you are because it builds such a toolbox. for you. And like now, you know, when something, something comes up and there's like that moment of like the world's ending, it's like, oh, wait, no, let me just open this box. And I know this, this, and I'll call my therapist and I'll talk to him about this. And like, I've worked through something like this. And it just gives you that confidence to be able to. Because I always say, like, the mental health of it doesn't go away. Just because you've done the work, like life is still

lifeing. She's always going to life. She's always going to be there. It doesn't stop. She doesn't stop. Yes. But we know how to handle her more. Absolutely.

So. Well equipped. Yes. There are things like you said in your toolbox that you are. Oh, this feels like let me take a beat. Yeah. Let me take a second. My therapist loves to say low hanging fruit.

Take a second and think about this. Are you experiencing this? Um, do you need to respond to this thing happening? right now, is it something you can take a break on? Because, you know, life happens and you think, oh, God, the world is ending in this moment right now. Yeah. And being able to approach it with your tools, it's great because you don't really, you don't think about it as it's happening. Yeah.

That's so true. Yeah. What is your relationship like with social media? You're like, I'm going to need a full other podcasts for this one. Social media. I, hmm, it's, my relationship is, it's on and off, meaning I have all of my notifications for every app turned off. I feel as though, you know, we are in a culture that requires your presence. Not, you don't have to.

No one has to do anything. but in order to, you know, do things like this and in order to be in spaces that help you pay your bills and help you to be, that contribute to whatever thing that you have chosen to do, particularly in the sphere of entertainment, you need to have some sort of knowledge of how the culture is moving. And so I, you know, I scroll, I scroll, I scroll, I scroll, I scroll all hours of the night and then I have to put my phone down. I force myself to go to sleep.

But sometimes it can get to be a lot, which is why, you know, I talk to my therapist about things like this. And I also have my, like I said, my notifications turned off because the volume of which that comes at you can be aggressive. Yeah. That's something I'm even feeling just. in the tech, just texting right now, especially being pregnant because my mental capacity is so limited. Like I'm working on like a fraction of my brain power that I normally am. And I'm like, I was thinking about this yesterday like, like, because my mom is like, she is always like, just, you know, set 10 minutes, which is great advice. Just set aside 10 minutes a day, just like clear, you know,

close notifications, don't like it at a day. It's great advice. The pregnant brain in me goes, well, when you were pregnant, you didn't have a cell phone. And which is giving very practical great advice. But I've just, I'm really, I've been really thinking about it lately because I'm so like, I probably went eight hours yesterday. Like my phone was on the kitchen counter and I was like, I'm not even like touching you. Like I don't. It's good, but it's also like, because I, there's obviously a lot of feelings and emotions

going on inside of my brain. But I've just been thinking about that a lot in depth. more, how much is required of us to respond to people and then you don't want people to feel bad. And then there is the pressure when it comes to work of have you posted in, you know, a week and a half, have you done this? Like making sure like there is your presence online because of the career paths that we've chosen. It's very interesting. Yeah, it's, I go back and forth because I'm like, no, I want to post what I want to post, when I want to post it.

Don't tell me what I need to do and how I need to. Like I go back and forth between this like, okay, am I showing enough of myself? Am I showing too much of myself? Is this too personal? Like things, the back and forth narrative I have is, it's a lot. Yeah. But I, you know, I do enjoy the community that social media can bring. And also my brother and I are now in spaces where we are the ones that our family kind of depends on.

So I'm not having my phone gives me anxiety because I'm like, you know, I need to help my mom do something or, you know, my brother's kids need this. Or, you know, so I'm always like, where's my phone at any given moment, which is crazy? But that's the dynamic we now have, which I'm grateful. for super super grateful for but it doesn't allow me um i don't think i've ever not had my phone this close to me yeah you know yeah no it's understandable yeah um moving into this next chapter yeah of life for you um we just had the birthday yes moving on it's the new chapters What do you want people to know about you? What are you, like, excited for people to learn about you that they might not know?

Oof. Oof. Um, I think the biggest thing that I want people to take away from any interaction with me, whether that's on a TV, on a stage, on a podcast. I think what's really, really important for me is authenticity. That is like the hallmark of what I stand for. I want everyone to know that whatever the career path, whatever the circumstance, whatever is in front of you,

showing up as the biggest version of yourself, I think is so extremely important. And I grew up in a household that stressed that my mother, you needed to be you. She didn't want you to be anybody else. She would often, you know, have us do these sort of exercises in self-worth and and all these things. And I think that that has become very important to me in the work that I do and the spaces I show up in. Even as an entertainer, that's something I find to be extremely important. And I think that is what I want people to know and to find for themselves their own version of like powerment, empowerment and like what it means to show up.

boldly in whatever space. And so even like, you know, I think I'm not shifting. I'm never done dancing because that's like mine. Yeah. But as I move more into acting, which is like really exciting for me right now. But even as I move more into that, I think I'm still like, be you, be just show up as you in every space. And I think that's what I want people to know and hold close for themselves is the bravery it takes to be honest about who you are in any room. That's so sweet.

Last question I have for you is what are you most proud of yourself for? Oh. Oh. Okay. Wow. What I am most proud of myself for. I think I am most proud of how I show up to, to and for those that mean the world to me.

I think that my, like I said earlier, my tribe is my, they are my all. And I have a very loud love language for all of those people. And I think that any opportunity to show up for others in any space. And that doesn't have to be a financial thing. It doesn't have to showing up for people with heart and with passion and with kindness and generosity and all the things that make a great person. and showing up for others with that only makes the universe give that back to you tenfold. And I think that how I am with those who care and love me,

I fully believe is why I have, I've been blessed with a lot of the opportunities that I've been blessed with because of my support and love and care to those around me, close and far, you know, and I think that that, that version of myself is something that I, you know, am quite proud of. There's an interview with Viola Davis. Viola Davis says, you know, Egot won't be on my tombstone. And that struck me because I'm like, she's so decorated as, as an entertainer, as a performer. And she's like, yeah, I do have an egot. But when I am not here, that won't be on my tombstone, mother, wife, et cetera, et cetera.

And it hit me so deeply because I'm like, that. It's that. Like, yes, I have so many aspirations in this lifetime that I would love to accomplish, you know, awards and the like. but what's more important to me is my relationship to those that love me and the impact I have to those that I do not know. That I think is what keeps me actively choosing the things that I love and the people that I love and the spaces I want to occupy and the crafts I want to study.

It's really being able to check. change those with how bravely you show up for yourself and for others. I think that is what I'm most proud about myself. I maybe went around to get to that answer, but yeah. No, that was the perfect answer. That was the perfect note to end on. I'm so happy that we got to send this time together and that our lemon drops got to learn about you and hear your story.

And I'm just so excited for everything that life hasn't stored for you. I can't wait to watch you thrive and perform and all the fun things. Thank you for having me. This is, this is great. Yeah, I'm grateful to have been here and to have had this conversation and to see you with baby. You know, I think it's, these are the type of interactions that I hold dear because it's really important. It's important to hear stories, people's stories, to share them and to show up for them, even on podcasts, you know. like it's very valuable to have these sort of interaction.

So thank you for having me. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.