The Squeeze - Mayim Bialik: Life Is In Session

Episode Date: May 1, 2024

Calling all big-word fans, this one’s for you! A neuroscientist and actress from a little show you may have heard of…The Big Bang Theory’s Mayim Bialik joins the Lautners to discuss her journey with mental health, both in and out of the spotlight. She explains her thesis dissertation, which, (grab a dictionary), was: "Hypothalamic regulation in relation to maladaptive, obsessive-compulsive, affiliative and satiety behaviors in Prader–Willi syndrome". She then dives into her early career as a teen actor and her home life surrounded by mental illness and addiction. She and Taylor bond over being Enneagram 4s, before she highlights two key tools that have helped her mental health: identifying food triggers and somatic work. Lastly, the Lautners ask her for advice on continued success in the mental health podcast space, as she’s hosted her popular podcast, Mayim Bialik’s Breakdown, since 2021.  Be sure to follow Mayim @missmayim and listen to Mayim Bialik’s Breakdown where ever you get your podcasts: https://linktr.ee/BialikBreakdown  Thanks to our awesome sponsor for supporting this episode!   CeraVe: To learn more about nominating a nurse who has profoundly impacted your life, visit CeraVe.com/Nurses or DAISYfoundation.org!    To email us your questions or share your story, you can reach out to [e-mail]. Be sure to rate, review, and follow the podcast so you don't miss an episode! Plus, follow us on Instagram, @thesqueeze and personally @taylautner and @taylorlautner + on TikTok @thesqueezepodcast    To learn more from The Lemons Foundation, follow @lemonsbytay on Instagram and visit lemonsbytay.com  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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or sunnycars. combe. No one's allowed to place judgment on anybody else's experience. You're the only person who got to be you going through that. And that's what these kind of modalities are trying to open up for people. You know, many of us were told, like, shake it off. You got a roof over your head. Like, what are you complaining about, right? And I'm so grateful that we all are living in a time. We're like, we're allowed to talk about these things.

When life gives you lemons, what do you do with them? Over here at the squeeze, we talk about it. Myam, welcome to the squeeze. We are honored to have you. Thank you. So, nice to be here. So we start each episode with a game called Citrus Got Real. We have this jar full of questions. Do you want me to pull a question? Yeah, sure. Go ahead. I'll do the drum roll. We do an ASMR drum roll. Yeah, I'm very good at it. It's impressive.

Okay. What? If you had to hide a giraffe from the government, where would you put it? What? What? Who makes these questions? Our listeners, our lemon drops. Oh, okay. That's a great question.

My bet. You know, I feel like this is like a fifth grade, like elementary school, like, you know, quiz where they're like, let's see what the quirkiest answer is from the fifth grader. Yeah. If you had to hide a draft. If I had to hide a giraffe. From who? Who am I hiding it from? From the government.

I don't know that my answer would be different. Like, I don't know if my answer would be different if I was hiding. like from my mom, I would hide a giraffe in the zoo because there's other giraffes there. That's smart. It would blend in. Yeah. Yeah. Like I would put it in the giraffe enclosure, obviously.

Yeah. That makes sense to me. That's the most reasonable. I don't know why my first reaction in the most humane way would be like a fireplace, like chimney because like they're long. Like they could. Oh, their neck could just go up. It's very humane. Like in the most, a very spacious, humane in a fireplace.

If I'm living in a cartoon world where I can talk to the giraffe and he's like, okay, you're like, I'll go in here. Right. So he like, you know what? I thought my answer was silly, but then I heard yours. And I'm like, I think my answer was pretty good. Yeah. No, your answer was the most accurate.

I think there could have been. We were like, why didn't we think of that? Yeah. Do you even have one? No. No. I'm going to go with Miami on this one. Okay.

Yeah. That's probably probably smartest. Yeah, thank you for that genius answer, because I would not have known what to say. Well, let's dive in because we're just super excited to have you. We are big, big bang fan. That's, you know, try saying that. We're big, big bang fans. Thank you.

And we're fans of yours and, of course, your podcast. Thank you. But I found it so interesting. I'm sure you've been asked this a million times. But I am curious. So in Big Bang, you play a character who's a neurobiologist. Correct. But actually, before you did the show, you became a neuroscientist.

Correct. And neuroscientist is a more general umbrella term. Neurobiologist is more specific and indicates the kind of research. But, yeah, it was the only neuroscientist who auditioned, though. They weren't like, let's find scientists to play this part. That was going to be my question. Yeah. When you were auditioning.

I was like, were they, was that part of like the breakdown? Like, or did that, was that just coincidence? So I was called into audition for, it was actually the season finale of season three of the Big Bang Theory. At that time, I had like a just three-year-old and a newborn. So I had not watched television. I hadn't done anything in the media. Like, I had really been, like, I was in grad school. So I had never, I didn't know what the Big Bang theory was.

It's like a very popular TV show. at that time, but I didn't know because I wasn't watching TV. So, no, I went and auditioned and actually the character didn't have a profession at that point. She was just this, you know, this woman that Sheldon was set up with on a date. And so I auditioned with a bunch of, you know, very, very talented actresses, none of whom, you know, were trained as scientists. And, like, on my resume, I had just started auditioning again. Like, you know, I was about to lose my health insurance from being a grad student. I was not in the industry.

Like, I literally had just had a home birth and was, like, still actively breastfeeding. So I literally just, like, you know, went and auditioned. And on my resume, like, I listed under miscellany, you know, like, where you list, like, can roller skates, speak Spanish in Hebrew. Like, PhD in neuroscience. Casual. So Bill Prady, I think. I think, yeah, Bill Prady, who was one of the creators of the Big Bang Theory and our executive producer, he, I think, at my audition, was like, is this for real? I said, yeah.

But again, the character didn't have a profession at that point. It wasn't until they brought me back in season four that she was made. I think Chuck Lurie said something like, well, let's make it something so that if we do something wrong, she can fix it. Oh, that's cool. That's funny. So it was very tailored to you. I guess so, yeah. That's so cool.

Did you just use the word? Taylor? I didn't, I mean, I never even imagined. I know, right? How many times will we say that in this episode? No, it's so funny because I feel like I always, I always saw like neuroscientists in your bio. But I was like, at first I was like, oh, is that like a cute playoff like from the show? And then as we, I was been doing research, I was like, oh my gosh, she actually is one. Like, I thought it was just like. something like cute that you did. But I was like, no, she actually has. I think you can tell for my giraffe answer. I'm not really into cute answers or cute things.

Oh my gosh. I'm a nurse and I love like science and big words and stuff. And so doing our research on you, I found what your thesis dissertation was on. And I would love to like know about it. I'm going to read it. You can correct me if the internet got this wrong. Actually, maybe you just say it because I feel like I'm probably going to butcher it if you

No, I mean, there's a lot of words. You can go ahead and read the title and then I can explode it. Oh, gosh. Okay. Well, yeah, this is this is what the internet gave me hypothalmic regulation in relation to maladaptive, obsessive, compulsive, affiliative, and say, I don't even know that word, satiety, society behaviors in praetor Willie syndrome. That is correct. My field, you did great. My field is psych neuroendocrinology. So the psych part is like when you think of like psychology or psychiatry. The neuro is the brain.

I studied the hypothalamus, which is a region that controls a variety of very important functions, including limbic system stuff, which is emotions. And the endocrinology part is the hypothalam pituitary adrenal axis, which is where all of the hormones that I studied circulate. But the syndrome that I worked with is Prater Willie syndrome, which is a genetic syndrome. It's a spontaneous mutation on chromosome 15. And these individuals have basically genetic obesity, meaning this mutation causes them to not know when they're full. And that's what satiety is.

And some of the things about them, they have very high rates of obsessive compulsive disorder. And that actually was the focus of my thesis, was looking at oxytocin, basopressin, and cortisol. And if they correlate with obsessions and compulsions in this population. So I worked in the neuropsychiatric Institute at UCLA. I went to UCLA for my undergraduate and my graduate work. I ended up meeting someone in calculus class, and we dated for five years, and we were married for 10. We're not married anymore, but we have a 15 and 18 year old. My 18 year old was born right after I finished my coursework.

So I wrote my thesis laying down, typing and breastfeeding at the same time. And then my younger son, I got pregnant the week I filed my thesis. So I took my doctoral hood about seven months. pregnant. Oh my. I was that lady on stage, like taking her doctoral hood like as big as the room. Oh, wow. My gosh. I have so much respect from you literally after talking to you for 10 minutes. The fact that you've, everything you've done literally from acting all the way to getting your doctorate while pregnant and having kids and bread like doing all these things. I'm like, I can barely do that. I don't even have a child. Yeah, a casualable thing to throw in there.

Literally. It's quite impressive. I bet you were getting so excited with all of those words that she was saying, and I have no idea what she was talking about. I love science and Taylor does not. When I was in nursing school, he wouldn't even let me practice because you have to learn how to manually do everything. So my first semester, I was learning, like, how to do blood pressure,

and he would panic. I was like, babe, it's not going to hurt you. It just squeezes your arm. He's like, no, I don't want to know. And he would get very flustered and have to like me down. I'm amazed you finished. Because if I had someone in the house, I would need to practice all the time, all the things. Yeah.

Yeah. He was, you got, you let me eventually. Yeah. I drew a line when she was like, I want to practice putting needles in you and literally wanting to, what's it called? Do like an IV push. Yeah. My mom works in like a med spa and they do.

Oh, yeah. Like vitamin pushes all the time. I live in LA. You know, they do them left and right. Oh, yeah. She's like, you have good veins. I can practice. I'm like.

Absolutely not. That stuff terrifies me. I guess we know where his limits are, Tye. Yes, we do. Yeah. Made those very clear from the beginning. Yeah. So I have been using Sarah V for years now.

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Something that I feel like I can relate to in a sense is for people that know you just from Big Bang, you actually started acting way earlier than that. Like, you, you were a full on working child actor. Yeah, I was, I mean, I was a teenage actor. I was on Blossom this show from the time I was 14 to 19. So I spent, you know, five years on a primetime television show. We premiered after the Cosby show and then we were after the Fresh Prince of Bel Air for most of the time. So, you know, kind of a staple of the early 90s there. And, you know, I graduated high school when I was 17. So I basically had three years of blossom, you know, when I was finishing high school and then two years out of high school.

I started professionally acting when I was 11 and a half, which is very young and also very old for the industry. Most child actors, as I'm sure you know, start as toddlers or, you know, at six or seven, like, you know, doing commercials. That wasn't my path. I really liked acting in school plays. but I didn't come from a family with money or resources to be, you know, like taking me around. My parents were public school teachers and my mom was a nursery school director. So, yeah, it was kind of something I never imagined would turn into a full life. But, yeah, I mean, I learned a bit about your experience, you know, in preparing to have you on our podcast.

And, yeah, you know, sort of like it's kind of strange to take this thing that, like, you love. and you want to bring something of yourself to a craft and an artistic expression, but then it kind of can have a mind of its own. And then you don't get to have control over how famous you become. And you don't get to have control over what people think of you or what they say about you or what they shout at you in the street. Did you ever, like, reach a point where you were like, I need to take a step back and you just like felt like you needed to just have space from the industry?

because, you know, starting so younger. I mean, honestly, I think somewhere in, like, the third season of Blossom, I was like, is this really my life? Like, I was, I was not a particularly, like, showbiz kid because I wasn't raised in the industry. And, you know, my parents were, like, first generation Americans. They were born during World War II in New York. And they were, like, hardcore New Yorkers who were, like, transplants to L.A. So I wasn't raised with this, like, you're the most amazing child and, like, everybody loves you.

You know, like, I didn't have like a, that kind of persona, you know, I was kind of a mopey kid. I probably would have been that way if I wasn't acting. Like, I was like reading Dostoevsky in 10th grade and being like, the world is so painful. So I kind of found myself, though, in the middle of like, you know, a full-time contract that you can't break. And, you know, I wasn't miserable. It was a really, really positive experience and especially with all the talk about what is happening for child actors and the things that we're learning about things that we're learning about things. that happened. I didn't have that experience. We had a very safe set. Um, but yeah, I felt in some sense, like a little bit stuck in a life that, again, I think a lot of teenagers might feel at that

age, but mine felt magnified because like, I kind of was stuck. Um, and I was actually supposed to go to Harvard and I ended up having to defer. And, you know, it turned out for the best. Um, they didn't accept me, uh, when I was done with Blossom. And so I ended up going to UCLA and, you know, got to live in the same city where my grandparents ended up living before they passed. So, like, it all worked out the way it was supposed to. But that notion of, like, what am I doing? Yeah, it hit me as a teenager. And then I left the industry, you know, for 12 years.

That's how long it took me to get my undergraduate degree. I did a couple episodes of Curb Your Enthusiasm in there. I did some voiceover work. But, yeah, I was pretty much out of the industry for 12 years. You know, my hair was, like, down to my butt. Like, I didn't even know what size clothing I was because I just, like, wore sweats. and was like a breastfeeding mom. So I had a very different, you know,

out of the industry experience. And, you know, also I think for you, like you're very, very recognizable. And it's very hard for you to not be you, your face, your body, your voice. For me, like, kind of like if you're a lady, like you put on a baseball hat and you don't wear makeup and most people don't pay much attention to you.

So like the unadorned female is often kind of left to her own device. And that's kind of how I coasted through, you know. That's funny. When we were in like, you know, high pandemic, like, we would go to the grocery store and Taylor would wear a hat, sunglasses, and his mask. And people would still recognize him. They can smell it. They're like, it smells like Taylor Lawyer. I don't get it.

How are we? How? I don't think I would recognize my own husband. Right. I know. I've had it happen. Like, I've also another example of that that. Just find, it's probably the most confused I've ever been with that is being at a ski resort.

And same thing. Having a helmet, goggles and like a warming thing over my mouth. The only thing that was showing was my nose. Wow. And it like one person recognized me and then the word spread. And I think I ended up asking them because I was just so curious. I think I went up to them. I was like, can I just ask, how did you know it was me?

Wow. Because literally the only thing showing was my nose. I think you probably went on the most recognizable nose. They did say your nose. That must be it. Okay. I will often get recognized just because of my voice, you know, and that has happened when I'm wearing, because I do have, I am aware.

I have a distinctive voice. But yeah. Still. Yeah. Yeah. I will say it's impressive. It is a soothing voice, though. Thank you.

Yeah. My children would disagree. Oh my gosh, that's good. So growing up while, you know, being in the spotlight, being in those teenage years, you also grew up in... Wait, sorry, I had to ask the question. The question should have been, where would you hide Taylor Lutner if you had to hide? Instead of a draft. Sorry.

I put him in a very humane fireplace. Sorry. Okay, sorry, I'm listening to. We'll add that to our citrus card. real segment. No, that's so good. No, I was just going to say, you know, the pressures of being like those teenage years in the spot, like trying to figure out who you are. You also kind of had an at-home life of environment, of alcoholism and having mentally ill parents. What, what did that time growing up look like for you? You know, I'm sure you've heard like,

I mean, there's a few metaphors here. You know, if you put a frog in, you know, boiling water, It's a different scenario than if you just have a frog in a pot of water and then you turn up the heat slowly. And so, you know, I think it's important to voice that, you know, for those of us who grew up in a different time, if you grew up with alcoholism, if you grew up with abuse, if you grew up with, you know, what we would later define is like, oh, that's going to make trauma for small people. Yeah. It's just like it's, it was at that time just normal, meaning that was normal for me. I didn't have anything to compare it to. Of course you watch TV and like I grew up watching like growing pains and who's the boss and you know all these shows and like 902.10. And of course I knew my life didn't look like that.

But I always had another reason, right? It's because my grandparents were immigrants. It's because I'm Jewish. It's because, you know, I have large features. Like whatever it is. We didn't know to talk about any of this stuff. You know, my father, my father of blessed memory, like he didn't even know. We just knew that there were times when he would stay.

up for many days in a row and think that he had powers. And then he would also, like, be so depressed that I didn't know what I'd find when I came home. Like, we didn't know what manic depression was. Like, nobody talked about it. And, you know, the ways that a family has to adjust to that kind of complexity at the time, it was just like, oh, this is happening. What I know as a scientist and Tay, you probably know, as, you know, someone who's science literate and a nurse is like, children internalize all of the things going on about them. They try and make sense of it. And, you know, kids do a lot of things to cope.

Some kids become, you know, like the entertainer, right? Let me make everybody laugh. Some kids shrink and they kind of disappear. Some kids act out. You know, like kids will behave in different ways. I was a very obedient child and I really wanted to like fix everything. And I did that not only in my family, but that sort of became my role in friendships. You know, I was the one people came to.

And like, there's good parts to that, but also like, it can be too much. So, you know, I also saw that pattern in relationships. I was always more interested in what the other person was going on. Like, what was going on with them? And it's only really as an adult, you know, in my, really in my 30s that I started realizing, like, oh, I get what it means that you're supposed to put yourself first? Like, what do I want? What's my favorite color? Where do I want to eat?

Instead of being like, what do you want? Because that's what I'm interested in. I'm interested in what you want. Like, that's what happens when you grow up like that, for me at least. Yeah. Isn't one of the eneograms, the fixer? Yeah. I'm making that up.

Yeah, I'm actually, I'm actually not a fixer. I'm an enneagram of four, which is the most dramatic, special. No one understands me. Are you a four? She thinks I'm a four. That means you're a four because fours don't think that any anyagram can meet our needs because we're so special. Yeah, I'm a four. I can't figure it out, but she says you're a four.

I'm like, that's, wow, that's interesting. What's the, what's the four called? It's the artist. It's like the, what are we called? I mean, I just call myself the superfeeler. I think it's like the creative or the, the, let me look this up. The, yeah, the creative. It's something like that.

Okay, okay. But that makes sense. The individualist. Individualist. That's like no one understands me. Like, I didn't even fit in. Like, I never have a plate. There's not even an enneagram that can satisfy my needs.

Right, right. But also I feel like, like, it's like also like the feeler, right? Like, I feel everybody else's pain and joy, all aspects. You know, I feel everybody else's emotions so deeply. Yeah, you feel the degree that you feel things. That's why I think that's why we make a good team. because he like is like he knows his emotions and like he feels everything so strong and I am so I'm too laxadaisical with things.

Taylor's like no you need to care more. I'm like you're actually right. And then I could be like you need to. Yeah. Calm it down. Not get. Yeah. As worked up.

I just yeah, I go through the highs and lows of every feeling including other people's feelings. Yeah. And it really affects me. Yeah. Well, and that's actually, that's something we talk about on our. podcast, like people who have that kind of, you know, profile, like, historically, we would have been given a very special job in our tribe, you know? We'd be the person that people come to so that we can

help them understand things. Or maybe we'd be shamans or healers, right? Because we're, like, feeling something that they may not even feel, right? Some of those people accuse me of, like, you're saying a thing that I'm not even feeling. And then, like, two days later, they're like, okay, I was feeling that. You were right. So, you know, it's also interesting that, like, in our culture, that it can be detrimental because like I do. I sometimes like feel too much. I feel too deeply. Like I can't just like see a homeless person and be like, that's a homeless person and

that's sad. It's like I'm weeping at the freeway offram. And like I kind of like I want to turn that down sometimes. But I also realize that like historically there needs to be all kinds of people. You know, there needs to be people who feel that deeply and can have access to that, you know? I always say Taylor is like such a good character. reader. He could just meet someone and like if he

has a good or bad vibe or whatever it is. Like he or he'll know the intention of someone's action and I don't even see it. I'm like oh no they just did it because of this. He's like no, they did it because like all this whole deeper reason and I'm like wait you're so right. Like I so interesting. Yeah. No he's

he's great. He just doesn't share on anybody's first date. This he is. Except that he's Taylor Lautner. That would be. Yeah. That would be. That would be. That would be. Here, I'd like you to meet my friend.

They're going to scope you out. Also, they're a very, very famous actor. That's a good show right there. Yeah, that is. So I guess we could just, you know, fast forward to being on Big Bank there on the note of, you know, mental health. At that time, were you more aware of, you know,

mental health or what things were and kind of how was your experience with the show? I'm sure there was like positives and negatives. Yeah. I mean, in terms of like my own personal journey, you know, I was on Big Bang for nine years. So obviously, we were all there together. You know, the full cast had been there for 12 years when we finished. And then Melissa Raft and I joined, you know, in the third season.

And then the fourth, we were made regulars. So that's like a decade, you know, we'll just call it a decade. So like think of any decade in your life. Think of any decade in any portion of your life, really. A lot of things happen. You know, things happened for all of us. And we got to go through them together. You know, it's very unusual as actors to have a job, especially a sitcom job, with that kind of regularity where we saw each.

I saw them for sure more than I saw my own family. And, you know, in those years, I, you know, I got divorced. My dad got sick and my dad died. You know, I had grandparents die. Like, I had, you know, children transition. Like, I had all sorts of things. like um and you know i would say that there was a lot of real comfort in having a place that felt like home um you know again you hear a lot of things about sets and our set wasn't perfect

like there wasn't you know it wasn't like um it wasn't like there was no complexity to what happens when you put a bunch of people together every day for you know 10 years but i will say that like i had alliances there you know um i had friends like that was My people, those were people who knew things about me often before, you know, even my family knew things about me. I actually, I wrote my first screenplay and directed a film. It's called As They Made Us. And it stars Dustin Hoffman and Candace Bergen, which like a lot of people heard about it and some people didn't.

But I specifically wrote it with a part for Simon Helberg. And I started writing it at the time that I was on Big Bang Theory. And Simon ended up doing this movie. And I got to direct Simon Helberg. And so the notion that someone that like I worked with that, like that I'm just trying to use that as an example to show like how close we were. Meaning I wrote this for him. Like we had that kind of relationship. So and also I, you know, I'm happy to talk about my movie because it also talks about mental health and I'm growing up in the kind of house that I grew up in.

But, you know, we we did. We got to go through all those things together. And, you know, I've been in therapy like since I, gosh, since I was, I think 17. And so, you know, I maintained a relationship with my therapist for all those years, which was helpful. And a lot of ego stuff comes up, you know, even if there's not competition overtly on a job like that. I mean, Taylor, I'm sure you could speak to this too. There's just inherent ego stuff that comes up when you're an actor because you're constantly having to like decide, am I good enough? Am I thin enough? Am I pretty enough?

Am I this enough? Like, are the directors happy? Like, are the producers happy? Like being an actor is an incredibly codependent relationship you have because it really is about like if you're happy with what I'm doing, then I get to be happy. That's how you know you did it right is when someone else says, I feel good. Let's move on. So, you know, that stuff kind of comes up. And, you know, life is sort of in session no matter where you find yourself. And I will say that I also started acting before there were smartphones, before there was a PR machine before, you know,

young girls in particular were expected to have highlights in their hair and wear spanks and get their nails done. You know, I got to kind of be a kid on television when I was, you know, a kid. And then Big Bang Theory was so different. It wasn't my show, which felt great because the pressure wasn't on me. I wasn't in every scene. Like, I could still take care of my kids. And I was able to like, you know, I pumped for over a year while I was there. Like I was able to still have a different kind of identity.

And I think that was better for my mental health, you know, when I look at, people carrying shows in this culture with social media what it is and PR, like, I would lose my mind. I would lose my mind. That's pretty unbelievable that you started going to therapy starting around 17. I mean, it's never for a good reason that you go when you're 17. It's not like, you're doing so amazing. Go to therapy. Yeah, I wasn't crushing it.

But I imagine it's had a. a massive impact on your life. I mean, I'm one of those people who, you know, I believe in traditional psychotherapy. And it's not for everybody. But I do believe in traditional psychotherapy, which means, you know, psychoanalysis is, you know, kind of when you think about Freud and you think about people maintaining, you know, a long relationship where you think about Carl Young. Yeah, I've had a therapist.

I mean, it's like awkward to say. I've had a therapist for over 20 years. And it is. It's not about like, why am I not better? I mean, I ask that. about every other year. But the notion is, is that, you know, as life comes up, you're constantly evolving. And that kind of relationship is a scaffold of sorts.

And it fills in a lot of the kind of emotional and psychological blanks that some of us or that a lot of us, you know, kind of grow up with. So, you know, for me, it's really, it's kind of a way of life to know that I'm accountable to someone who understands me and knows me that way. You know, I also do seek support from, you know, places that support people who grew up in homes like I grew up. We tend to be vague in how we talk about it. But, you know, I believe that those two things that therapy and, and the rooms of the 12-step programs absolutely have saved my life, you know, I'm one of those people who, you know, struggled a lot and very deeply,

and continue to in different ways. But I've, I have so many more tools now, you know, that many of us are not taught. And some of us learn it different ways. For me, I'm a stubborn learner and I'm a slow learner. So, you know, I kind of like, I just sort of keep coming back. I keep showing up. And I really like having people around me, you know, that are on a similar path of discovery. And I don't really operate well with kind of like small talk and like light relationships. Like I like to interact with people who are thinking deeply and feeling deeply because that's just sort of like where my head resonates.

You know, my parents, my mother's, you know, still still alive and probably is going to be listening to So, hi, mom. You know, my parents were, you know, both like artists and very, very creative, loving, you know, people, very emotional, very complicated. So it's not like there's, I mean, I think this is true for a lot of people. There wasn't just one thing that was hard. There was also a lot of good things and a lot of joy and a lot of confusion, you know, and I think it's that confusion that really drove me, you know, to do this kind of work on myself. And I'll be honest, you know, I, um, I, um, I, um, I, I didn't really use drugs or drink heavily. You know, like I wasn't a party person not to disparage people who are, but I see why people do those things because you can kind of numb out and enjoy yourself a little bit. And, you know, I choose kind of not to partake because I know that, you know, addiction runs in my family. It's very, very easy for me to get lost in that.

And so for me, like, therapy is kind of, you know, that's where I put a lot of my energy towards trying to, you know, survive as a spiritual being in a physical body, which is really what we all are, you know, we're just, we're, everybody's got a self. And it's in this case, you know, for the time that we're here. On the note of tools that have helped your mental health, two things that you've mentioned that I would love to hear more about are food triggers and somatic work. Oh, yeah. Ooh, fun. I mean, happy to talk about food. You know, I've talked openly on our podcast about this. I, you know, I definitely had, I grew up with a lot of strange conversation around food. You know, my family, my grandparents, you know, left Eastern Europe at a time

leading up to the Holocaust. And so there's often a lot of food stuff in, you know, kind of post-Holocast families and a lot of families. But in particular, if you, you know, grown up with anyone who lived through the Depression or lived through those pogroms or was a Holocaust survivor, like, there's a lot of emphasis on food and a lot of attention on food. But I didn't, really acquire what is, you know, an eating disorder until I was 40. And I didn't know you could acquire one so late. They didn't teach you that in, you know, doctoral school at UCLA, meaning that wasn't my field. And I just didn't know. And I found myself, you know, with some really unhealthy eating behaviors that I was hiding from people. And I ended up getting help, you know,

from people I knew in 12-step rooms and learning more about it. You know, they often say the way we eat is the way we love and is the way we spend money. And I found that to be true because I kind of like either want like all the candy, all the love, all the money, or I'll just like go without everything. And like I don't need to eat and I end up just be a nun. Like I'll be a Jewish nun. And I just don't need like I don't need to spend any money. It's fine.

Everything's fine. So I really like kind of have this like see sawing between. And so, you know, for me, I tend not to use the word trigger unless I'm speaking about it super clinically. But I understand, you know, kind of what you're asking. But, you know, honestly, one of the hardest things for me is being around people who have eating disorders who don't admit that they have eating disorders. So, like, disordered eating is very, very common. And it's not for me to diagnose.

I should be really clear about that. I don't diagnose people with an eating disorder. But, you know, I was even shocked when I came back to the industry and after being gone for 12 years, just how normalized it is to just not eat. Just don't eat or just like coffee and cigarettes or like, I'll have a little lettuce or, you know. And sure, there's people with like allergies and sensitivities. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about like, I didn't know there was a culture of like, oh, here's what you do if you have a red carpet. So you can't eat carbs for three days before.

And then the day of like you can't do any of this and like you can't and you have to like do a laxative thing. I was like what? There's like a whole culture around it. I really didn't kind of fall into that. But, you know, I think that especially having kids, like there's this hyper awareness, especially when you live in L.A. about appearance and what people look like, and it affects men as well as women, you know. That makes sense. Yeah. I mean, that's, yeah, that's kind of, you know, been something for me, too, on a part of my journey. So, yeah, I really resonate with that.

Yeah, I have to sort of, you know, be accountable to other people who get it. You know, that's part of what I do around it. And also, like, even if you don't have a notion of God, the notion that, like, I don't have a notion that, like, I need to be healthy. Like, what does it mean to truly be healthy? Like, I know when I'm doing unhealthy things to my body. I do. Yeah. And so the notion of, like, my highest good, you know, for me to be in this body is to eat three meals a day, you know, to be nourished that way.

So I kind of, you know, try and get back to basics on it. But it's an enormous if you live in Los Angeles. I don't know if I can explain it to people. Like, unless you've been here, like, it's hard to explain that, like, everyone looks like a fitness mom. model. It's kind of crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

And that makes it tougher. I remember that being like one of the first things that I learned. Everyone was shorter and they were even more petite than I thought they were. Because I'm not from the industry. And obviously my first experience was when we first started dating like almost seven years ago, six, seven years ago. And I remember just meeting people. And I've always been like a smaller person. and I for the first time ever, like, actually really was like, oh, wow, I'm actually like not small.

And like that kind of was like making me kind of start to like question my own body and my body image, which is just so crazy. I mean, even, yeah, even when I was a size six, you know, I was considered hard to fit. That's hard to fit for the red carpet, a size six. Wow. And I think the average size for women in the United States is like a 12 or a 14. So, yeah, when I was a size eight, it was like, Oh my God, we don't even know what to do. Like, what do we, how do we address this person?

Crazy. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. What was the second thing you wanted to talk about? The somatic work. Yeah. What exactly is that? So, somatic work is, you know, that's an umbrella term that includes, you know, a lot of different modalities.

But the basic notion is trying to get you in touch with physical sensations in your body and seeing how they relate to emotions. or if they relate to emotions. So one of the kinds of somatic work is somatic experiencing or SE, and that was kind of coined by Peter Levine, who we recently had on our podcast. And what Peter Levine described is what typically women for thousands of years have done as part of their practice.

You know, laying of hands is kind of one way to think about it. If you've heard people talk about energy work, it is a form of kind of energy work, except he's sort of explaining. scientifically what's going on in the body system. Sematic work also calls upon memory systems that may be storing memory. And this is not a conversation. I'm not trying to open up a conversation about like repressed memories and like did it happen. But if you've ever met anyone who, you know, has chronic pain or who has what we call mind body syndrome, where you have,

let's say, an injury that has healed. And there is nothing else physiologically wrong in the body, but pain is still felt in that part of the body. Or sometimes pain will be felt in certain situations or circumstances. That's known as mind-body syndrome. And so some of the somatic work tries to find where's that memory being stored in the body. And, you know, this is, again, something that for thousands of years, practitioners and healers have done. And it's only when science can sort of, like, put a name on it and describe it and, like, find the pathway

and do electrophysiological studies on it that people kind of, we're like, oh, that's a thing. So that's sort of some of it. You know, there's, there's some of this work that is, you know, energetic and it's, it's Reiki work and it's Tibetan healing and things like that. Sometimes those also are somatic practices, but craniosacral therapy is something that's actually recommended by a lot of Western doctors for certain treatments. You know, acupuncture, again, for thousands of years, has been used and it operates on the meridians of the body, which we actually know now are real things. It's connected to the fascist system. And, you know, know, fascia and the interstitium is known as the 80th organ of the body. So all of the somatic, you know, practices kind of fall under this. There's also incredible work being done specifically on fascia, where if you have any scar tissue, which every time you have a scar that is an injury of sorts, and especially for people who have significant scars, fascia work, where they specifically break up that tissue and see where it attaches to all the musculature. It's a fascinating kind of somatic work. And sometimes you'll have fascia work done and all of a sudden, you'll

be in your childhood bedroom in your head. And I've had this experience where I was having work done on, I've, I've had four hernias and a bunch of surgeries and I've had a hand surgery twice. And she's working on, you know, and we're not talking. She's working on the fascia. And all of a sudden, I'm basically describing what people who do EMDR will describe. Okay. I'm like in my childhood home. And I'm like, I'm conscious. I'm not asleep. I can talk. And it's as if I can like scan the room. I don't know. And honestly, the practitioner doesn't always know what specifically is being, you know, pulled. But we know that the body holds memory.

And if you know anyone who's experienced trauma, the body will hold memory. You will seize up when you're in the location where trauma occurred, right? Or if you've ever heard of anyone having a nervous stomach, that's actually a somatic reaction to an anxiety-provoking situation. but if you have someone say, oh, I get migraines when I'm stressed out, it's like, maybe it's all in your head or when women report fibromyalgia. Multiple sclerosis, people used to say, it's all in your head. You just need to relax.

You know, you just need to have a glass of wine. No, the body is actually holding information and it can be released in ways that are really cathartic and healing. Wow. I think our friend Lauren, she went through a bad accident and she was having worked done on her scar, I think, four. or it was, it was facial work for that. Yeah.

I remember her telling us something about that. Yeah. Yeah. It can be very intense. Stuff like that is so fascinating to me, just how, like, complex our bodies are. Yet how simple almost in a way. Like, we think that there's,

there wouldn't be built up memories or something in a scar from an accident, but there actually is, like, things like that. I mean, we've both done, well, you kind of started. I fully did, like, EMDR. Mm-hmm. And it's just like a crazy process how now like I did I did my EMDR because I worked as a COVID nurse and that was a very difficult thing for me. And I did a lot of work through that and just kind of finally working through what I had gone through. Yeah.

And it's crazy now how much I feel like I can talk about it or like I found out through doing it that it not only was a hard experience for me. obviously physically, mentally, the hours, I was working nightshipped, all that stuff. But also, I was grieving, you know, my, this career I was so excited to go into. And I, I, nursing was like one of, like, I never did well in school, but nursing school, I was like, this is my favorite thing. I got all A's. I was obsessed with studying. It was my favorite thing.

And I ended up learning that I actually was grieving the end, because I had to leave the hospital due to, like, significant mental health stuff. But I at the time was grieving that loss of like a passion of mine, too, which I had no clue was going on and like grieving the loss of something I looked forward to and, you know, grieving a loss of time too. So it was really interesting that I don't think I would have ever realized that if I hadn't done EMDR at well. Yeah, I'm really impressed that you, you know, were able to to have that experience. I mean, also just the timing of being a nurse during COVID. but like I can't even imagine. And, you know, all of us paid a lot of lip service.

Like, oh, frontline workers, frontline workers. But like, you know, learning about your experience, you know, it was traumatic on so many levels. It was traumatic on a global scale. And it was traumatic on a community scale. And it was traumatic on a personal scale, you know, for a lot of people. And I think what I really respect about the way I've heard you talk about it is no one's allowed to place judgment on anybody else's experience.

Meaning you're the only person who got to. to be you going through that. And that's what these kind of modalities are trying to open up for people. You know, many of us were told, like, shake it off. Like, you got a roof over your head. Like, what are you complaining about, right? And I'm so grateful that we all are living in a time. We're like, we're allowed to talk about these things.

And we're allowed to say, like, this is touching on something that's older than this, right? Like, we say, like, if it's hysterical, it's historical. Meaning if you have a reaction that is strong, there's likely something. that it's, you know, touching on. And no one's going to have the same experience. We're all completely different people. And someone else in your situation might have been like, I got this. This is awesome, right?

But you're allowed to have that experience. And also, like, that's your journey. And no one can take that from you, both the best parts of it and the hardest parts. So I'm just, you know, these are the kinds of things. Again, like this is what we talk about on our podcast. Like, it's a human right to have this access to process. It should not just be something that wealthy people have access to. It should not just be something that people who have insurance have access to.

This kind of processing works for a lot of people better than pharmaceuticals that they tell you to take every day for the rest of your life. And no one likes to talk about that. Right. Yeah. The fact is, you know, we talk a lot about the psilocybin research and ketamine research. And what that research is like is it saying that some people can have a transcendental experience. And some people can get there through yoga and deep meditation. Some people get there through holotropic breathwork.

But sometimes one experience with a skilled therapist guiding you on a journey can help you understand more about your trauma than being told that you have to take a pill every day for the rest of your life that has side effects that you may not want. And I've been on medication, on and off since I'm 17. I don't have a particular, you know, prescription for what people should do. There's been times when I think, medication's super helpful and necessary and it can save lives. Absolutely.

But for a lot of people, that's not the only answer. And sometimes EMDR is and sometimes talk therapy is and sometimes exercises. You know, exercise has gone like toe to toe with SSRIs and some really powerful studies. Sometimes getting out of your house and finding your people and finding people that care about you. You know, what we talk about a lot on our podcast is you don't have to believe in God, but guess what? believing that there's something bigger than you is absolutely critical for your physical and mental health. It's called spiritual health and we're finally hearing what is it about having gratitude that makes you healthier? It's not just that you have a church function where people will

serve you, you know, pudding if someone dies. Like that's not why religious people have more hope. It's not because they know someone will show up if there's a funeral. It's because they know that they are cared for by something bigger than themselves. And what does that look like for those of us who don't believe in God, right? What does it look like for everybody? But we're all kind of trying to touch the same thing. It's just a lot of different ways to get there. I happen to believe in God.

Sorry, I didn't mean to say I don't. It's just using an expression. That's great. No, that's, it's so true. And I think we're really heading into a good space here. I think we're like of mental health and, you know, learning that these things do actually work. So I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful for us.

We'll be hopeful together. So we've been talking about your podcast, which we are big fans of. And it's in, you know, the same mental health space. You have been doing it for three years now. Yeah. A couple hundred episodes and counting, yeah. Wow. Okay. So you have plenty of more experience than us. You are plenty more successful than us. We're just...

Funny more educated than us. Yeah, for sure. We're just a little baby. And, you know, honestly, we just look up to you and what you've done with your podcast and would love to be there in a couple years. Since I have you trapped here and you can't go anywhere, if you could give us a piece of advice for our podcast, what would it be? Well, first of all, thank you for saying all those things. You know, my partner, Jonathan Cohen is, you know, he's the engine behind a lot of what drives me as a human and as a podcaster. I had never listened to a podcast when we started on.

Same. Like, I didn't really understand the format. He would argue I still don't understand the format. And he's probably going to listen to this and be like, see, that's how you're supposed to interview people, the way they did. My own. Oh, please. Yeah. But, you know, I think that it's hard.

It's really hard because, you know, it's a business, you know, meaning you have to pay the bills. You have to keep that pretty neon sign, you know, that's behind you lit up. So you have to kind of balance, you know, the way the structure of this business is. It is a lot about, you know, numbers and like ads and, you know, all those things. And so that stuff gets me really stressed out. And I don't know, Taylor, if you. might relate because like I'm just like a I'm like a heart with ears you know I just want to like talk to

people and help people. So I'm really grateful I have Jonathan and we have an awesome producer Valerie Floyd and like she she handles a lot of that stuff so that I don't get bummed out about just like the corporate like business part of it. You know generally speaking and I think you you already do this but you know the the level of vulnerability and honesty that I think we can have as people that can like pull eyeballs or earballs as I call them you know um the notion that we're not just airing dirty laundry like I'm not looking for people to be like oh this celebrity had this problem or why is she talking about this the notion is we're all part of this human experience and so when I choose to be vulnerable or when I choose to you know be brutally honest

about things that I've experienced the reason that I do is it is because I want other people to feel safe to do that for themselves. And maybe it'll lead them to further introspection. Maybe it'll lead them to explore therapy. Maybe it'll lead them to ask questions of their doctor that they didn't think they had a right to ask before. And I think, you know, kind of goes back to one of your early questions that Tay asked me. Like, you know, I grew up in a time when I didn't know that it wasn't normal for people

to behave the way people behaved in my home. and you don't have to live like that anymore. And the notion is also not, you know, there's a lot of conversation about this generation. And like, we're giving them all the mental health words and they're more depressed than ever. And suicide rates are through the roof and like everybody like, what are we like, are we doing something wrong, you know? And so I think it's also important to realize that like it's not our responsibility as podcasters, right, to fix everything. But if there's something that we can add to the conversation that comes from an authentic place, My hope is that it will open up a conversation and not feel like I'm telling people, this is your diagnosis.

This is what you need to do. Like, I don't know. I barely know what I need to do after this, you know, to just like feel okay. So I think that that kind of honesty is it's really important. And it's a weird culture that we have that like if celebrities say it, then people will, you know, maybe take care of themselves more. But, you know, for me, I really do. I try and come from an altruistic place. Jonathan often, you know, tells me that just need to be more casual.

You two seem a lot more casual than I do. So I think you're ahead of me. And I was like listening to how you talk and I mean, I'm glad that I have a partner who thinks I'm adorable. You know, I just sometimes when I hear people speak like casually, I'm like, why don't I know how to talk like that? So I think you also, you have, you know, you have a really a lovely way of, you know, kind of interacting both of you together and sort of you know, with your guests. And so I think that's, I think that's really awesome. And yeah, I think you'll always know intuitively, especially if you're an enneagram for if you're doing it for the right reasons, meaning what feels right, you know, and isn't driven by other things.

And I think just the way you started it seems so organic. So thank you. That was great advice. Great advice for sure. We're good. I think we're good. I think we're good. Yeah. Now I'm I'm curious what it was. Okay. Oh, we have a segment that we sometimes do at the end. That's like seven random questions. Oh, I want to do it. Okay. Are you sure?

It could be rapid fire. Yeah, we can make them more, you know, rapid fire. I can be a little rap. I like that. Okay. Okay. Let's just go through it. You start.

Okay. This is Lemon 7. These can be rapid fire if you want to explain something, totally up to you. Okay. But now, you know, sorry. Do you know what I'm going to think for the rest of the day and probably the week? I'm going to be like, he didn't think I was fun enough to do the rapid. We just don't want to keep you.

It's fine. I'll be quick. I'll be quick. Okay. What movie or song title best describes your mental health today? She's like, I wish I didn't do it now. Right? She's like, why did I say I wanted to do this?

Falling down. Falling down. Okay, there we go. Number two, how open are you with people in your life when struggling? I think on a scale of one to ten. Sure. I'm pretty open. I think that, you know, I think especially I spend a lot of time with my children.

And so I think there's like, I've learned how to be age appropriate open because, you know, I grew up with like, everything's fine. Everything's fine. And I was like, but I know it's not fine. So when I'm not, when I feel like I'm falling down, I'm also just getting over a virus, when I don't feel great, I've found a way to be age appropriately open and be like, I'm having a hard day or I'm feeling super sensitive. So let's not tease mama today, right? Or I really, really need help with the chores.

Like, I need to not ask you seven times to unload the dishwasher because I'm just like feeling like I don't have a lot of patience. So let's do the chores. And that usually helps because I don't want to pretend I'm okay when I'm not. Like, that's really what it's about. And as an actor, like, we're taught to like be. okay when we're not okay. But with the people who are close to me, I have no choice, you know, but to be open. And also, like, I'm told that I have like a cartoon face. Like, you can tell when anything is wrong. Funny. That's why I got Botox in my forehead because my face was really

expressive. I grew up dancing and I got in trouble a few times. My eyebrow would raise and I would even know it was raised and they would be like, excuse me. And I'd be like, oh my gosh, it literally just moves. I'm so sorry. That's why I got butt talks. Oh, geez. Okay. Number three. If you could only follow three social media accounts, what and who would they be? Can go across platforms, but just three accounts.

I really like animals. So I don't know that I could name a certain account, but like there's one that shows. Animals doing things. Like, like, I think I. Okay, I'll tell. Like, seals sneezing. Oh, oh, specific. I mean, well, that's one of the things that I really like, like, I like seals, sneezing.

I like goats making funny goat sounds. So I'd want one of those accounts. One of those accounts. And then I'd love to follow my older son's Instagram, but he won't let me. But if I, in the fantasy world, and it's, I don't think there's anything illicit. And he sometimes will show me things. He's really good at, he's really good at, like, photography. and things like that.

And so I would love to follow him. And then for a third one, I'd probably pick my cousin Rebecca because she takes the most pictures of people in our families so I could see the maximum pictures of my family. Oh, yes. Those are good answers.

Seale sneezing. I have to look that up. Seale sneezing. It's very funny. Very cute. Number four. What is your favorite form of self-care? I'm thinking not because like I don't have one,

but because there's a lot of ones that I, you know, choose. Right, because it can be such a wide spectrum. It can be broad. And like for some people, it's like, my self-care is going to a spa and having a mimosa. Like that's not my jam. My jam, which that's fine if it is. But I, you know, I've recently gotten into kind of more old school instructive meditation.

So learning specific meditation techniques. And, you know, sometimes I do like unguided meditation. But I happen to use the 10% happier app, which has people like sharing. Salzberg and Joseph Goldstein and like some of the original people who brought over meditation and loving kindness meditation from India. And so I like learning from old masters. And so they have all these guided meditations and their voices are just like super soothing. And, um, and I learn techniques that I find that I'm using in the day. And so that's been really, that's been a very effective form of self care. Okay. I'm going to have to look that up 10% happier. Yep. That's a Dan Harris's,

uh, yeah, based on his book. Okay, very cool. Really good meditations, yeah. We'll be looking that up. All right, number five, what would you say is the most misunderstood thing about you? I want your honest opinion after this, if you are happy that you decided to do this or not?

No, I am. I like these. I'll say something sort of controversial. Okay. I'm a liberal person, meaning I identify as a bleeding heart liberal. and I also am a person who believes that Israel has a right to exist as a country. And a lot of people believe that if I believe that Israel has a right to exist, I can't be a humane person and I can't be a compassionate person.

And that's a terribly disturbing misunderstanding of me as a human because my heart hurts when anyone is suffering anywhere. And to be miscategorized as someone who would, in any way, you know, denigrate the suffering of anyone in particular in Palestine, in Gaza, is really devastating. So it's kind of a heavy one, but it's true. It's very, very painful to have people not believe that those two things can exist. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. I think you've shown your heart how caring you are. Thank you. Try. Four people already. So I see it's there. Number six, who has had the most positive impact on your mental

help. My partner, Jonathan Cohen, 100%. And like, in a way that I used to hate him for it and fight with him about it. And I was, I, I have a living amends to make to him for the rest of my life for how dismissive I was of many of the practices that I am now being told by even Western doctors that I need to, you know, employ to maintain my mental and spiritual well-being. So, yep. That's great. That's beautiful. All right. Last but not least, number seven. I hope it's fun and not heavy. You can take it anywhere you want. Is it about a giraffe? Okay, go ahead. It's not about a giraffe or myself. If you could go back to one moment in your life, what moment would that be and what would you say to yourself?

I gave birth without drugs and unassisted until pushing about 10 feet from where I'm sitting right now. It was the most unbelievable empowering. It was intentional. I was intentionally having a home birth, but there was traffic and the midwife was late and I was by myself. And I didn't even know I was ready to push the baby out when the midwife's assistant walked in the door. I didn't know. I had been laboring for about three hours and my water never broke. And so I thought I must not be ready to give birth. But some people give birth without their water breaking. It breaks when the baby comes out. So that was my experience. But I just thought I'm not ready to give birth. And And I think if I could go back, you know, and be able to celebrate because, like, the feeling after giving birth like that, you feel like you've just, like won the marathon and been given $5 billion to like cure world hunger and solve the solution.

Like like literally create world peace. You feel so powerful in in such a, you know, resonant way. And I relished it. I really did. There weren't smartphones at the time. So like there's like literally one photo of it. But if I could go back, I would love to, you know, to tell myself like how proud I am of myself that I was able to do this. And I had a very, very different experience for my first son's birth.

And so it was very empowering to have that experience. And yeah, I felt proud of myself. But I think knowing what I know now about what I needed at the time, I needed to hear it more. Yeah. Wow. That's incredible. I didn't know that you could, that your water didn't have to break. Yeah, it's called the baby's born in the call, C-A-U-L. And it's a very kind of, I was told he would be a very special, mystical child. And indeed, he is a special child. Wow. Isn't that crazy? He's pretty cool. But like, that's my kid that was born without my water breaking until he came out. Wow. Dang. That's amazing. I love that answer. That's such a good answer.

No, that was perfect. Oh, my gosh. Are we glad we did it? I can be fun. Yes. Are you happy? Yes. I'm happy.

Are you happy? I feel really happy. Okay, perfect. That's all that matters. Thank you so, so much. We really appreciate it. I've, you know, in that short period of time, learned so much from you. So just really grateful.

Thank you. Well, thanks for having me on and can't wait to have you on Miami-Bilex breakdown. We'll see you soon. Can't wait. Thank you guys. This podcast has been brought to you by Podcast Nation. Thank you.