The Squeeze - Natasha Bedingfield: Feel the Rain

Episode Date: April 9, 2025

This week, Tay is back for another girl talk episode—this time with singer-songwriter Natasha Bedingfield! She opens up about growing up in a musical family, how she found her way into music, and the role her supportive parents played in helping her pursue her dreams. Natasha shares the excitement and challenges that came with sudden fame, and how she’s learned to stay grounded while on the road. We talk about the often-overlooked reality that fame and fortune don’t make you immune to mental health struggles, including her personal experience with prenatal depression and the tools that helped her through it. Natasha also reflects on how motherhood has reshaped her perspective, why she once felt like she “was too much of a parent” as a child, and how she’s now learning to embrace more play in her life. Plus, we dive into the legacy of her song Unwritten, its recent resurgence in 'Anyone But You', and what’s coming next for her!Be sure to follow Natasha https://www.instagram.com/natashabedingfield/To email us your questions or share your story, you can reach out to [e-mail] sure to rate, review, and follow the podcast so you don't miss an episode! Plus, follow us on Instagram:The Squeeze: https://instagram.com/thesqueeze/Tay Lautner: https://instagram.com/taylautner/Taylor Lautner: https://instagram.com/taylorlautner/& TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@thesqueezepodcastTo learn more from The Lemons Foundation, follow https://instagram.com/lemonsbytay/ and visit lemonsbytay.comEpisode Sponsors:Right now, Tonal is offering our listeners $200 off your Tonal purchase with promo code SQUEEZERitual's Essential for Women 18+ is a multivitamin you can actually trust. Get 25% off your first month at ritual.com/THESQUEEZE. Start Ritual or add Essential for Women 18+ to your subscription today.Go to belliwelli.com and use our exclusive code SQUEEZE20 at checkout for 20% off our order.OpenPhone is offering my listeners 20% off your first 6 months at OpenPhone.com/squeeze.Go to cokeurl.com/simplyPOP to find out where you can try Simply Pop!Dogs deserve the best, and that means fresh, healthy food. Head to Ollie.com/SQUEEZE, tell them all about your dog, and use code SQUEEZE to get 60% off your Welcome Kit when you subscribe today!Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Production You've written multiple timeless songs, but Unwritten truly is just, like, it stood the test of time. And I don't know what magic sauce you put in there. I feel like the song has grown up with us. Like, it's relatable at any point. That's how everyone sings it. Like, everyone sings Unwritten, like, absolutely releasing their inhibitions, absolutely not caring how they sound. And they're not, like, trying to be perfect.

Where the idea of the song came from, what you wrote it about. The first intention was just to write a song that was speaking to a 14-year-old. who's my brother, that was just kind of all the things I wish I'd heard at that age. And I remember that age where a lot of people were just always asking me, what are you going to be when you grow up? And I remember that feeling like this very crippling pressure. And me being like, no, this is my story. I hold that pen.

You know, I can write it how I want. And I want this to be an adventure book. Like, I want this to have highs and lows. And that gave me courage to step out and to quit university and to try things because it's like, well, if it doesn't work out, it's a good story. You know, so you might as well try it. Natasha, welcome to the squeeze. Thank you. It's so fun to be here. This is so exciting, just because I've literally listened to your music my entire life. So it's been fun to have all of

your songs like restock in my head the past couple weeks as I've been doing prep for this interview. But I'm excited to get to know about you and what makes you and some stuff that you've been through. but we start each episode off with this little jar. It's a game called citrus got real. If you would like to pull a little piece of paper out of there and read it to... I like citrus got real. That's funny. I know.

Okay. Let's see. Oh, this is a long one. If you had to pick one person to live with the rest of your life, who would it be? Ooh, that's a nice one. Well, I mean, it's probably my husband, who I have already promised that I'm going to be with for the rest of my life. I know. Maybe if it's...

If it could be a famous person. Yeah. Let's say a musician, Herbie Hancock, so that we could write songs together because that would be so cool, right? You just write songs all day. Ooh. Who would I want to live with? But Billy Elish, that would be fun.

We were literally just talking about earlier, and this is the point that I'm about to make, is you and your brother were literally Billy and Phineas, like, before they were, like, you were literally them. They are you. In some ways, because we were homeschooled. Oh, okay. Also, yes, my brother was, my brother had hit songs before I did. And he taught me how to sing.

And he has that song, got to get through this, got to get through this. And another really huge song. And so I'm his little sister. So in that way, it is kind of like Billy Eilish. I learned that that was your brother's song while doing research. And I hadn't heard that song in years. And it was like instantly, I was like, I know every word to that. Like it was just it unlocked and made.

memory I forgot was there in my head. The beat is so good. And he's so good at producing as well. He produces all his own stuff and everything. He's great. But he doesn't make my music. That's where it's different. I think Phineas and Billy, like they do all their music together, which is so cool.

Where did the music start in your family? Like, are your parents musicians at all? Or how did that be? It's a good question. My parents are, everyone in our family can sing. but we grew up in church. My parents are from New Zealand and they came to England just before I was born

and we grew up going to church and went to this amazing soulful black church called the Wade Brothers and they, I think we have to say probably a lot of it came from them because there was this amazing thing of encouraging young people to do music and it was so much encouragement.

It was so incredible. Oh wow. like my um like they had an eight year old on the drums and everyone was like yeah my brother would get up and rap and everyone was so encouraging and he had a little beatbox machine you know just kind of like doing these kind of cassio sounds and so your parents were like on board with like i mean that was our uncles and aunties and they were all from jamaica and london jamaican and um so that was a huge part

and i i kind of like realized it later that was really influential for us but also my brother was extremely talented as a kid. And so, and my sister and I, we just copied everything he did. I mean, I guess we were talented too, but in the family, he was like the talented one. Yeah. And we were like, we were just the little sisters. Oh my gosh. But we ended up both really being deep into music too.

We actually have a sister and a brother, but both of them are really good at songwriting and singing too. So I don't know what was in the water, but it's just. There's something. Yeah. Normally I feel like it's like one person and then the other sibling has like no. I mean, my sister's incredible. It's an incredible songwriter.

Because she sang on some of your albums before. She sang on Unwritten. Okay. Yeah. You can hear her voice going, whoa, yeah. She's like really,

you can hear her at the end of the song of Unwritten. That is so special. Why did your parents homeschool you? I mean, they were kind of a bit anti-establishment kind of, you know, but I think also because, because they noticed that we were unique kids and didn't want us to feel like we had to fit in,

I think, thinking back, probably. How did you go, like, you did homeschool all through, like, junior high and high school as well? I homeschool from 11 until 16. Okay. So I only homeschool for my teen years. And I loved it. I really loved it. I'm really an introvert, and I liked self-study.

Yeah. I liked wearing my pajamas all day. Yeah. So when did you decide that you wanted to, like, actually pursue music? I was 12 and I started to want I just started to have like this burning desire to write stuff and all my journal entries were like I've got something to say but I don't know how to say it yeah like I had this real kind of like blockage that I wanted to get over I just felt like there was this bubbling up yeah that I needed to say something but I didn't have much experience

so I don't know how like what I'm going to say you know so then your brother goes off he starts making music and do you do feel like more comfortable with it like he kind of showed you the ropes so we um like we grew up uh like just singing together singing in church and then um he had this DJ um he was making songs at at home and this DJ put his song on his compilation album and suddenly there was a bidding war about him and he was about 18 I think and all these labels just wanted to sign him maybe it was 20 and I I decided to get a degree in psychology. Oh wow. Yeah, but I love how the mind works. I love all the questions. I love trying to figure it out. Oh, wow. So you should be interviewing me, basically. Well, except that I quit

after a year, so I'm not a psychologist, but it was enough to give me like a lot of things to write about. And I realize that when you write a song, you don't have to have the answers. Actually, it just feels good to ask the question. Asking a question is somehow very validating, especially through music. But I was doing music and I was, I was bitten by the bug. I was writing with other people like myself who were just starting out. And after studying and working and stuff, I would go on the tube, which is the English underground train.

And I would try to look a bit tough because it's a bit dangerous in London because I would be traveling late in night and I'd be wearing puffy coats and just kind of like scowling. Because if you smile, you know, like someone could attack you or something. Oh gosh. You know, when you're on the tube and there's like one person on there who's a sketchy-looking person. Yeah. But either way, I was so bitten by the writing drug, songwriting bug, that I was studying, but then I was like doing late-night writing sessions. And kind of under the radar, even like, I don't think my own family knew how much I was writing.

I was just kind of like stealthily doing music. But eventually, like, my dad noticed how much stress I was under at school. And I was dizzy every day. Like, something about the studying was really hard for me. Yeah. And he was like, come on. Like, you don't have to approve anything. Like, you're a singer.

You're a, you know. Yeah. Just quit university and do music, which I was really grateful. And my dad encouraged me to do that. Yeah. You know? Because most people don't, like, most people don't have parents that are like, go pursue this career that most of the time doesn't actually amount to anything or just negative things come with it.

But I feel like that's really cool that your parents were like, go do this. It really was. And my brother had a number one hit. And then he was telling everyone, by the way, my sister's also great. And they were just kind of rolling their eyes. Like, everyone has a sister who's great, you know? And then I really had to be great. It was good.

It was good pressure. Yeah. He hyped you up too much that you really had to. Yeah. You know, you have, was it, did it feel like a skyrocket or did it feel like it was a slow build for you? Because I feel like so often we hear like this overnight success and all of the stuff. And clearly you had been putting in so much, you know, all of these late nine hours while you were still in school. Did it feel like for you it happened quickly or did it feel like it took a while?

So, I mean, nothing can prepare you for the stress of success. Yeah. It's like stress. Getting famous is a really weird. It's a really weird thing. It's amazing. It's what everyone wants kind of, right? So you feel weird that you feel bad about it because it's kind of like, how can you complain about something that we're all, that so many people are aiming for? But, you know, I really feel this because when I've seen people who have just become famous, that first year, it's really like nothing can prepare you for it because it's just coming at you from all sides. And you feel so excited.

excited and so grateful, but at the same time, it's a bit like a washing machine. Yeah. Where you're, you can't, I mean, you can't even remember. I have a lot of memory loss from that first year, and a lot of the artists I've talked to have the similar kind of thing. Because your schedule is so crazy. Yeah. You don't really, yeah, you're like, yeah, it's out of your control.

Yeah. No, I know. My husband has something very, like, similar. Like, I feel like he, I remember some things. Other times, he's like, oh, like, I. completely forgot that that had happened. Yeah, and then there's all the people who you offend because you could take them with you. And, you know, like, all your friends who, so many people are at the same level of talent.

But for some reason, the gods picked you. Like, for some reason, you're the one who got the spotlight. And then there's that feeling you want to, like, share it. Yeah. But, like, there's not a lot of bandwidth to be able to kind of, I don't know, it's a really bizarre thing. I know. There's a lot of survivors guilt, you know? Yeah.

No, that's so true. And I feel like as, because I grew up very normal, my first introduction into the industry and all of this stuff was when I met my husband. And, you know, it's been, it's been fairly, because he hasn't been, he took some time away from work and it hasn't been so much going on, which I feel like has been a nice adjustment. But so often, like, people are always like, what I see a lot is. being like, oh, famous people, like, they're rich, like, why, why are they struggling with their mental health? Like, they can do whatever they want. Why are they struggling? And it's such, like, it's been something that I've learned just, like, meeting people who, you know, have been in this industry for so long. And it's, I honestly feel like it's inevitable. Like, just because of

media outlets, the things that they say, the standard that you hold yourself to are that a label might or that, you know, like my husband after Twilight came out, it was like, it was, he was set to this standard of like, there's nothing else. Like, he could do a movie and it could crush at the box office and do great numbers, but it didn't beat Twilight. So it was a failure. Yes. But in actuality, it's just like setting these standards that are truly like unmeatable, not because lack of talent or anything, but just because this one project, this one, whatever it was, just took off. And, you know, that was great. And the pressure that a lot of people have to, like, do that again, to write a song like that again, to come out with a movie like that again, whenever it may be

is so real. And I feel like it's at you. And you literally, you, you can go as far as you're capable of. Yeah. So you are the limit to yourself. And that's amazing, but it's, it's really hard because no one's enough. Like, you know, I mean, you eventually have to go like who, you have to kind of take probably like what your husband's doing, take a moment and just kind of go, well, what's my purpose? Like, why have I been given this microphone in front of me or this camera in front of my face? Like, there must be more to it than just, because fame itself is not enough to satisfy someone because it's just a never-ending thing. Never-ending of like wanting more or needing more or not feeling like you're enough. Yeah. I mean, I love when I see someone like Chapo-Rone

talking about like just how like when she's off yeah she's off from work or when she's at work you know and just this kind of awareness around um that everyone's real people so i'm actually loving where where the world is at right now too with the real more um the honesty the bravery of really just showing who you are no filter i'm loving how um gen z and like i'm just loving how, you know, all the apps that people are using are having no filters now. Yeah. And much more towards just the realness and how important that is and the bravery of that. Yeah. Because 20 years ago, when I released my stuff, it was so much about like this, creating this yeah, perfect kind of illusion. Yeah. Of what a pop star is. Yeah. And now it's a lot more playful,

I think. For sure. Yeah. Do you feel like you ever struggled with your identity outside of Natasha, everyone knows who's written all these amazing songs and who you are, like, at home with the door closed. Yeah, I mean, I think that first year was so crazy and I had that experience of not being able to go out in London and, like, I lost my own city. Because I didn't like being chased by paparazzi. And some people love it. Yeah. I didn't, it really was stressful for me. I don't like the lights and all of that. So I am really lucky because I kind of made a conscious choice that I want to be famous for my songs. I want to be famous for what I do and not for what I wear or who I'm dating. So I made some very conscious choices to not chase it in that way.

And I actually saw other people doing it the other way. And I was like, I'm really lucky that my career was able to flourish in that. I could listen to my own intuition on that, on what I needed. And I know that's really rare. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's very much so. Yeah. But if you were asking if there was anything If there was anything that was tough as well The one thing that really came to me Was as a woman the messages that we get as a woman And how important how we look is

Yes to me that was really challenging Because Well firstly your label Record company spends like so much on hair and makeup Like it's like $5,000 for your makeup and your hair Every time you do anything And the messaging you're saying you get is that I'm not okay. Yeah. I need to have all this to make me okay. Like I need to have

a makeup artist, a hairstylist and a stylist and a, like, if I'm not, if I don't have those things, I'm, there's something wrong with me. Yeah. And it was a really, that was a, sometimes these messaging, they come quite subtly. Yeah. Sometimes they come quite forcefully, you know, but I think every woman, every girl gets this. I feel like, oh, I'm sorry, I don't look good today. You know, like, somehow it's my responsibility for, to make you, to be something beautiful for you to look at, you know, or, you know, so I, for me, it's been a, it's been a journey and sometimes I feel that pressure of how I look, you know, and I know that there's trauma there. I know that it's like from this extreme pressure to be liked that, you know, but in a way I'm grateful that my,

like, I've been forced to kind of deal with that. Yeah. Because I'm on camera all the time. Yeah. You know, and I learn tools. I mean, and I love hair and makeup. And I love doing it myself. And I find it quite therapeutic to do it for myself. Yeah, your wing eyeliner came in. She came in hot today. Thank you. I love that. Working hard is worth it if you're seeing results. And when it comes to working out, the same thing is absolutely true. You want the maximum benefit in the time you have, and that's exactly what Tonel is built for. Tonel's at-home strength training system uses adaptive weight to learn from your movement and set the optimal weight for every move. I don't know if you guys have heard of Tonal, but I have talked about them before.

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Okay. So obviously with your job, you're on the road a bunch. You're traveling. I am always so intrigued by musicians. And I'd love to know just how are you on the road? like do you feel the need to maintain some form of routine, normalcy, like how do you integrate that into being on the road? Yeah, I, the fun thing is that people often ask me, like, do you get nervous? But I don't actually get nervous before going on stage, which is great.

But it's because I created, like, for myself, really routines. So I have to have two hours before I perform. I have to stretch. I have to do warm, warm, up. And I do my own hair and makeup. So if I don't have those things and I actually do get nervous. Yeah. But I seem really calm. Yeah. And so sometimes people want to talk to me and like, but it really messes me up and usually I'll mess up on stage or something if I don't have that.

Yeah. How do you, if you do mess up on stage, how do you like get, how do you just move on and keep going? Like what is the mentality that you walk through? So I, I actually laugh and it kind of resets me. Yeah. So now you'll know. But like when I'm saying it, if I did a bum note,

I'll be a ha, ha ha ha, and I'll go straight into something else. And the one thing that I do get, which I don't know if other people get this or not, but I have huge shame hangover. So sometimes I'll do the most amazing performance, you know, like a festival of 30,000 people. The next day I'll just feel so shit. Like I'll feel so bad. And it's tiredness. It's like burning so bright that you just feel really low.

Yeah. And I have to know that. That's how I'm going to feel. And that's normal and it's just tiredness. And sometimes it's this feeling like maybe one mistake I did. I'll just ruminate over and over. And what I realize is that I actually don't get nervous before I go on stage. I get nervous afterwards.

So I've saved all my, I guess I found a way to control my nerves. But no matter whatever emotion you suppress, it still comes out anyway. So I think what it is is that I'm like holding it for later. Yeah. I then have to deal with it later. Yeah. Yeah. How, I know there's quite a few, I mean, I feel like this is very common in the music industry being, having to be on while you're performing and having like these high, high moments of people screaming and just like you're like on, you're there, like you're giving, people are giving you all of their energy. And then the next day you go back to normal and normal, like you said, feels like such a low. And I feel like that's where the. Yeah.

The, where unhealthy coping mechanisms come into play with musicians because you're having such major swings. How do you know about this? It's so true. And you feel that's why people take drugs and things like that because they're like trying to, trying to keep that high going. It's a huge crash. Yeah.

So I think working out is really helpful. Yeah. Did you experience that crash? feeling like when you first started and were you like what's going on? I mean every time, every time. Still, you're like last week. Yeah. I'm still working on my, like I've got my warm up routine, but I'm still trying to work on a cool down routine. Yeah. Some way to put a lid on it, you know, because you're burning so bright. And it really does feel so amazing. Connecting with people like that and having them all sing and sing with you. It's so cool.

Yeah. It's just, yeah, self-nurturing, self-care stuff afterwards, I think. it's pretty important. Yeah. What are some self-care activities or tools that you love? Well, everybody, I mean, so many studies now are saying how important working out is for your mental health. Yeah. So working out, stretching, yoga, sleeping.

It's hard to sleep and you've been really wound up. Oh, yeah. So sleeping, finding ways to sleep and relax and just being kind to yourself and, you know, not kind of like rushing into something else. I know, I feel like we're at a good state now because I feel like people were, when people were saying work out, you need to work out more. It was more for physical purposes. Yes. But now I really feel like we're at a good place where working out for yourself, like it's actually being grasped that that is a thing that is useful for your mental health.

And even just going outside and walking for like 25 minutes is something. Yes, outside walking. That's 100%. And also jet lag, like getting outside, having some sun. Yes. All of that is great too. Yeah. You're right because people used to, and they still do, but like definitely there's definitely

been an emphasis where you look in the mirror while you're working out and you're trying to fit into that dress. Yeah. Which I think is, is, it's just, if you kind of work out from a place, how do I, like, let's be healthy, let's get the blood moving. I think that's, for me, that's totally better. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. to love yourself and be proud of yourself because you're doing it, not because of the result of the action.

But some days I just can't work out. And so I just, like, sometimes I just put my workout gear on and that's enough. Yeah. Because at least it was like a habit. Yeah. Something I've been trying to do recently is I'm like a sweatsuit just look like Adam Sandler half the time, like basketball shorts, baggy t-shirt. Like that is what I wear.

And because I work from home. I've found myself just wearing, like never getting into actual clothing. And so I've started to do two things. I put jeans on like I did today. Yeah. Um, comfy jeans. We don't need, we don't need tight jeans, but just something that's comfortable. But also, I've been sleeping in matching pajama sets. And I have girlfriends that do this and they just love them because they're cute. But I honestly feel like it does something mentally, like when you wake up, like when I wake up, I'm in, like a form of an outfit that isn't mismatched baggy clothing. Yes. It's a, it's a cute pajama set. And I like make my coffee. I have my morning. And I feel like, okay, I'm going to go.

Like, it just gives me like a little boost. I've been thinking about this, this is why for me. Like I think I like working hard was something that was important. Yeah. For me as a kid. Like that my parents help. It was a gift they gave me that you should work hard. Yeah.

But the problem is that like I wrote on my Instagram, play hard is my, like, Did I say play hard? No, I said, I'm busy playing. Because being busy is one thing, but busy playing. So what I'm saying that is I'm thinking, what about when I'm at home, if I think about Chrissy Teigen and like the way she's wearing like amazing satin pajamas and kimonos, like what if like when we're at home there's a luxury to being home? And sometimes when we're at home, it's a bit like, oh, I'm picking up dog poo and I'm like I'm

Cinderella. Like, I feel the experience when I come home from tour, home, I'm a bit kind of like a, yeah, like I'm just glorified cleaner or something, you know? But like, just kind of be home and just kind of luxurate a little bit. Yeah. Actually, like, rest in a way that feels glamorous. Yeah, I feel like we've reached this stage with TikTok of like romanticizing, you know, making it latte or going outside and doing something, like just adding that little bit of like umph to and i mean it's not even it's not even adding anything it's maybe like having a cute mug or just like really taking the time my favorite thing to do in the morning is i put it's on youtube it's just like these um soft jazz or like just piano and it's like a pretty it's like a pretty little

photo i put that up and then that's how i like start my morning routine having a ritual yes yeah having a lovely teapot like making a tea listening pouring it slowly listening to it like yeah trickling down, doing things slowly. Yes, I forgot. You're a tea person. I am a tea. Should I tell you that? Well, I figured. I figured all tea fixes everything. That's the British thing. I do, I do love tea. Every time I go over there, that's literally, I don't even drink coffee when I'm there. Like, all I drank is tea. I love tea. My husband recently just really got on a tea kick. We were staying somewhere at, I don't know, we were traveling somewhere and there was tea in the hotel and he made tea and he was like, this is really good. And I was like, yeah, tea is great. And I have like my whole little tea collection downstairs. I love that. We'll have some tea later. Oh my gosh. I know. I need to actually try it the way that British people have.

We could make a lemon tea or something since the show is lemon. I know. Unfortunately, those aren't real lemons, but I do have real lemons downstairs. I love lemon tea. Yeah, those kind of rituals are really good, I think. And we're talking about mental health, like rituals really help, don't they? Because it's like, I think things like depression, like just finding a way to just get out of bed and just do like a practice that kind of gets you out. Yeah. Yeah. Apparently, like, there's one thing of, like, just narrating what you're going to do. Like, I'm going to put my phone down right now. I'm going to stop looking at Instagram. Yeah. Saying it out loud and then counting down three, two, one. Have you heard that one?

No, but I love that. And just go three, two, one, count it down, put it down. And, like, interrupting a pattern, you know? Like, I definitely scroll too much. Yeah. And I lose time in that. And so it's like, how do I interrupt that pattern? Yeah. You know? No, that's, I like that. that a lot. I love, this is why I love this podcast because I hear, I hear so many, like, little things like that. And there's, there's so many different tools and things to integrate. And I feel like sometimes it can be a little overwhelming because it's like, I'm going to do

this and this and this. But just even adding, like, that one little thing into your routine. Yeah. How do we notice? What am I doing? What, what am I up to? My friend told me, like, what am I up to right now? That's so good. Why am I doing this? I love that. What am I avoiding with social media is? real one. Okay, so in 2017, you became a mom. Yes. And while you were pregnant, you experienced prenatal depression. Yes. Which is not so common. It's not so common. And it's honestly not talked about. Like I know a lot of people that have experienced postpartum, but not that many that have experienced prenatal depression. Did you even know that that was a possibility? I didn't know. And I was on

tour with train. I was opening for train, which was so fun. Oh, wow. But I nobody knew I was pregnant because I was like, I don't want to, like, for me, it was like that time of like, it's kind of nice that you have 10, 10 months to kind of think about it because you actually change your own identity. Yeah. So I didn't want anyone else to know as I was like becoming a mom, you know? Yeah. But I did notice this chemical change. And it's the first time I understood people who have depression because I, I'm quite a optimistic, like my, and my natural thing, it just kind of floats. Yeah.

You know, I turn it around. So I have low thoughts, but I'm able to, you know, I'm able to kind of resolve it usually through writing songs. I'm like that as well. But you know, like how when somebody you love has depression and you just see people going, just get over it, you know. And that was the first time I realized, I mean, I knew that you can't just get over it, but I've experienced this is like, this is a weight.

This is a thing. And when I Googled it and researched and found out that it's just a chemical thing. Yeah. And when you're pregnant, you go to doctors and you tell them stuff, they're like, great, that means you're pregnant. Like, it's the only time in your life where any sickness, any symptom you have is good because it means you're still pregnant, you know. So it's a really tough, tough thing, actually. How did you get, was it through your entire pregnancy? Do you feel like it was more so in the beginning?

Yeah, it was just a, it was because I was feeling nauseous the whole time. And I would just crawl back in my, I would get on stage, jump around and then crawl back into my bunk. and you look so great when you're pregnant. So no one really believes you that you feel sad. And I remember telling my husband, like, you've got to get, I need you to come out and always like, but look at you. You look great. You're doing great.

I'm like, no, I'm not doing great. And I started sending him articles and he came out. And, you know, yeah. And my son is so amazing. He's such a ray sunshine in my life and I'm so grateful. But it was good to experience how chemical it is for people. Yeah. That's so real.

Because similar to me, I feel like I had a lot of people in my life, whether I struggle with addiction or just mental health problems. And I had never experienced it until after working through COVID. And then that was the first time I was like, oh, something is like, something's going on in my head. And I like don't know what that is. Was your husband coming out, did you feel like that helped? Was there other tools? Like, did you start seeing a therapist, or was there something that you had to do? I mean, you have a tour.

Yeah. You're like, get this thing out. Yeah. I think that was for me, it was just this terrible lowness that I'm like, like, literally, it was almost, like, it was just so bad. Yeah. And then, and then I had my kid and it was totally fine, you know. So, but, you know, there's. other, I do think that mental health is, is the new pandemic. And I do think there's not a lot of

support. So I really love that you have this podcast. Because I've just seen, it's just even through that we mentioned the pandemic itself, there's just people being alone that long. Like, it just wasn't good. And so I think it's so important that we're talking about this stuff, you know? And I even write about it in my new songs that I'm writing. There's a song I have. and it kind of addresses that and you know just like we yeah I don't want to give away too much about the song but um we're all struggling you know and it's a cultural thing it's a even if it's not it doesn't even have to be depression it's just with having having being bombarded with so much information yeah um that you almost don't know your own thoughts and yeah so you know I think it's

it's something that we all need to kind of share with each other as much as possible and and and kind even though we feel like being alone or something, but really like being with people because that's where the healing and the magic and the growth is. Yeah. I feel like that's been one of the biggest things I've learned is how important community actually is and having that human interaction. Yeah. And, you know, going out to coffee with someone and, you know, it's so easy to be like,

oh, I just want to stay home. I don't want to go out and meet this person or do whatever. But truly, like this, even like this podcast is right now, like this is so life-giving to me and like being able to like talk with people and hear their experiences and just having that interaction truly is like we forget how important it is and I feel like I'm like I am realizing and from not having it to now like really needing it and seeing how important it is. Yeah and even as you're talking there's been a few times as you're talking I feel goosebumps in my body because I feel my body agreeing like and saying yes you know it's so important and like it's

it's more dangerous outside your house, you know? Like, but being alone, like, you can be alone in a big city, but feeling like someone else gets you or understands, it's so powerful and it's so healing. And it's like, like I said, with my songs, you don't have to have the answers. Like, you don't have to give people advice. And sometimes when people are going through hard stuff,

I've noticed that people pull away, oh, let me give you your space. Like, you're going through something with your family. You know, someone's going through grief, death, or, like, and people are afraid that they're going to, to say the wrong thing. But it's the thing is you don't need to say anything. Sometimes just being with someone is just so powerful and being like being someone that they can release their emotions with and not giving them like really holding back, not giving them a solution. Because that really

hurts actually. Like when someone's like, well, you should just do this. Yeah. Or that. No, it's so true. One of my favorite things to do as of recent because I feel like I've been really, my phone's been giving me a lot of anxiety because so much of my work is, you know, through the phone and emails and all of this stuff. Me too. I've really been trying to, like, especially on the weekends, I'm like as far away from me as possible. I've seen like some people create little houses for their phone with a door and you lock it. Oh my gosh. Isn't that fun? So cute. Yeah. Yeah. I think we're all going to be doing that more. I know. I think so. I know. But what I've been doing is I'll, because I love, like, when you get a text from someone's like, hey, miss you, hope you're doing good.

Like, I love that. Or, like, even, I sound so silly saying it, but I'm going to say it because I know people agree. It was just my birthday a couple weeks ago. And I felt so loved and just on cloud nine with how many texts, like, texts I got from family, from friends. And I'm like, this is so sweet. I definitely got a little overwhelmed having to reply to everyone because I wanted to also make sure everyone felt loved. And then there's also those few people that then respond back and then are like, how are you doing?

How are things? I'm like, no, no, no. Like, my husband and I were joking, and I was like, no, you don't, you don't respond to a birthday text with like a joke or with a question. But that's, but that's just me being anxious and how I know how I feel. So what I've been doing with people recently is I'll text someone and say, hey, don't reply to this. I love you. I'm thinking of you. I miss you.

That's nice. Just so, like. They don't feel anxious to reply. Yeah. Because I know how I get when, like, if I'm busy and I have messages. And I think it's just this thing that the phone does. Like, it's a very easy reply for me to do. Like, I could pick up my phone and respond.

I think also because there's so many different platforms now, so that people are DMing you on all the different things and Snapchat and Instagram and MySpace and, well, not so much much. But all the different ones. And so you really can miss people. And it really is scary that people get hurt if you don't reply. Yeah. Just because you would maybe living your life. Yeah.

Just being present. Yeah. A friend of mine says, he's like, I love to follow up. with people. He's like, I'm not offended if someone doesn't reply. Like, they could be, yeah, they could be in the middle of something that could have missed my text. Like, follow, like, he's like, I love to follow up with people like once, twice. Like, I love doing that. That's my best friends that they all understand, that we all understand each other and pick up where we left off. Yeah. I'm kind of great. Like, I'm in L.A. and I haven't called a bunch of my

friends, and it's the first time that I haven't felt really guilty about that. Usually when I'm in L.A., I'm like, oh, my friends are going to be annoyed that I was here and didn't tell them. But I'm at the point where I'm like, oh, every single one of my friends, my real friends understand. And that's amazing. And I haven't seen able to say that. So I think that's really intentionally having those kind of people who's your friends, right? It's so important. Yeah.

I have that with my girlfriends. And sometimes I know they like see my text, but they don't respond. I'm wanting an answer. I'll just be like, answer me. Like I'll like keep saying. Yeah. Proof of life. Yeah.

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and enter code squeeze to get 60% off your first box. You guys need to get your dogs on this food. it is absolutely amazing. I was taking this earlier, and I just remembered, do you feel like your relationship with songwriting has ever struggled because of needing to come out with a hit, having that pressure of the music industry? Do you feel like you've been able to keep it a place of,

this is therapeutic, I love it, or did you ever struggle with it? I love songwriting so much, and I like the process of it. Like, I like, I like it when it's mine. Yeah, I like it before I share it with people. Yeah. So that, the hardest part for me is when I, like, I like performing it. Yeah. And I love writing it. The hardest part is just playing it to someone. Because, because of the industry, because of the industry scarring, because of the way that, like, music executes, they just listen to things and just, like, it's just, you know. Yeah. I find that really hard.

Because a lot of times there's those people who are like the bosses in those, like, they don't really know. how to make music and they don't, they don't, yeah, they don't appreciate. I'm like, listen to the lyrics. Yeah. Yeah. I have so much respect for musicians because I just don't, especially like songwriters. I have a few friends that are musicians, songwriters and just like the process that you guys have to go through and like you pour so much of yourself into something and, you know, they could get shut down or it could have like not get a good risk. It's just. The thing that is cool is because AI is making really good pop songs now, I think that singer songwriters have to become more artistic and more human and more imperfect.

And you have to like have more cracks in it. And because actually like stuff that's more packaged computers can do that. And so I think it's going to be really an amazing explosion of real, real stuff. Are there boundaries with AI in musicians? It's a really rough, it's a really weird time right now. My friend Imogen Heap is she's creating an app where you can train your own AI so that you can own your own voice. And if somebody wanted a Natasha Bettingfield record, they could pay my AI to do it. Oh, wow.

Which is really cool because what's happening is that the labels are just letting AI train off people for free. And it's just a weird, it's a weird time. So we need to change some of the laws. to make it so that people do own their voices. And I think it's same with models. A lot of times they're using people's faces and things that don't belong. I just saw an ad that was an AI ad of,

it was Jay Shetty's podcast and it was Kendall Jenner and it was all AI and it was an ad on YouTube. And it was, I don't even know, promoting some product, but I was like, is this like, is it legal? I mean, I think the lawyers need a step. up right now because there's some things happening that is not legal. Yeah. Yeah. I don't even like, what about your own kid? I don't know, like all people's photos on Instagram. Yeah. Like there's laws that protect children. What about all the like famous children on

their parents are making them into influences and like who's protecting those kids? And those laws used to protect kids on TV shows and movies, but they're not being applied over to social media. And I don't know why. Like why are people sleeping on this? I'm not sure. Yeah. We were actually just talking before this about that and how apparently in California it is now a thing you have to pay, which, you know, my husband grew up and that was a normal thing. Like in acting, you have to put, you know, a percentage of this into the savings account for the child. And this is now, I don't know if this is now a law or it has been a law in California. But apparently there's influencer families that are leaving California because they don't want to pay. the percentage to their child saving account and they're moving to states that don't. It's wrong. It's wrong. So this is why I have kind of obsessed with this where at some point in history people decided let's protect people. Like let's set up, let's set up agencies and things to protect musicians, to protect actors, protect songwriters. And for some reason,

the technology's changed, but they haven't kind of like, you know, anyway. I'm all about like, let's find a way to protect, especially children. Yeah. You know, sometimes people grow up and, like, actors grow up and their money's all gone. Yeah, no, it's very weird. Yeah. Yeah. I love Ray.

Do you love Ray, the artist Ray? Yes. Oh, my gosh. She's been talking about protecting songwriters because, again, like spot, but a lot of these big companies are making all the money, but the writers who are doing that kind of, the real artwork, they're not getting anything, you know. Yeah. But she's also an incredible artist.

Yeah. Yeah, she's so talented. Wow. I'm curious to see how what comes to fruition with all of that. Because there was obviously the whole, the actors had a whole thing with AI and had that whole little. Did they win? I think they did. It stopped, so I'm assuming they did. But yeah, I'm curious to see where that lands. I'm hopeful. Me too. I'm really curious. I'm hopeful. I want to get involved as much as possible in that. Yeah. That's good. That's good to know. Yeah. That why Kim Kardashian is becoming a lawyer. Maybe she'll save the artist. She'll save the artist from AI. I am curious, after becoming a mom, my mom always says, like, you'll understand once you're a parent, once you're a mom. Do you feel like your perception on life, fame, maybe even how you approach your music has changed since becoming a mom? I think like looking into your child's eyes and seeing some resemblance of yourself in your

son, in your kid, so I've got a son seven years old, so amazing. It's definitely made me love myself more because you kind of just see like a pure soul. And so it helped me think of myself as a child too. Like I'm like, how do I be my own mom? Like how do I mother myself? Like how do, what if I was my own child? And so the way that I look after him, him is so, it's so natural to just, it's so instinctual that you just, you really do whatever is best for your kid. So I'm like, how do I do that for myself? Like, how do I make sure I eat good food? Yeah. How do I make sure I'm healthy? And, you know, so in that way, it's been so great. Just self-love, really upped its game. You're taking care of yourself for someone else to and

taking care of them. It's awesome. Creatively, I feel so inspired because it's just a wealth of life. Yeah. So it's, there's just never a shortage to write about right now. And it's also kind of like that experience of, you know how fighters they go and train in the mountains

with very low air supply? And then when they go and fight, they are 100% like they're breathing fresh. it's giving them an advantage. That's how I feel looking after a kid is actually quite hard. Yeah. You know, your endurance really goes up. Like your endurance level, you don't sleep much.

Very true. It hurts your muscles, you know, so then everything is easier. Wow. Yeah. Wow, that's, I love that analogy. It's very true. Moms are superheroes. I don't know.

Yeah, the Tiger Mom. You start to just get a little more ballsy and, you know, you kind of choose what you fight for a little bit more clear. I love that. So our alum and drops now, we do a little, we have our guest fill out this pre-interview form, which you're the first person to ever compliment us on that form. So I love it. Thank you very much. Really? I thought I was so open.

I'm impressed. I giggled when you wrote that in there. But honestly, one of the questions is, like, what's the greatest challenge you've been through in your life? And I loved your answer so much. And I honestly have not had anyone answer it this way. you said when I was a kid I was too much of a parent now I'm working on being more of a kid yeah why do you feel like you had to be such a parent when you were a kid I was a really good kid there was four kids in my family I was the oldest daughter and I think like my I was only mom's buddy

you know and I think that I just was given a lot of responsibility my youngest brother was born when I was seven. Okay. And I would be the one to sit outside his room as he was going to sleep. Like, I would just sit for an hour trying to, like, keeping on going in and make sure. Oh, wow. And I was always put in charge of my family. I was literally babysitting my big brother even.

Yeah. Like my parents, like I was 10 or something, and I was in charge of my older brother. Oh, wow. Yeah. So, yeah, I was a very responsible kid, and it just kind of fit naturally for me. And then I don't want to do that anymore. I don't want to do that for people now. Yeah. I don't want to be the mom.

Yeah. Yeah. How do you work on healing that inner, I feel like we hear a lot of inner child work. Yeah. And how do you implement that into your life? It's a daily thing. Yeah. It's a daily choice.

I just don't feeling and noticing when my body, when I tighten up, you know, like when I feel a burden on my shop, when I feel burdened or when I feel tight in my face, I'm just trying to notice it and breathe through it and just like let go. I have a therapist. I'm, what else? I just try, I do things like the artist's way. Yeah.

Which I know Dochi has been talking about issues. I've been doing that for years. And that's called them you do things like you do the morning pages, which is where you write whatever you're thinking in the morning. I go on an artist date. with myself, where you go, it's really cool, actually, and I need to do this again. I'm glad you brought this up. But you ask yourself, what is five things that when I was a kid, I wasn't to be when I grew up. And so I think, like, I'll go join the circus, be an artist,

be a teacher, go to the moon, you know, like some crazy things that a kid would think that is not possible, right? Yeah. What you do on that one date with yourself every week, You just do one thing that is related to one of those things. So you nurture your inner child. So you go, okay, go to the moon. That's not possible. But go and visit a space museum, you know, or go to, you know, just do an art course and do art for yourself, not for a career, not something that you're posting on Instagram.

It's just like just pick up a paintbrush and just find an artist and just try to do what they did, you know, or watch a documentary on art, you know. But just finding out those little things, nurture your inner child and they bring creativity alive. And I guess that's the other thing I was going to say on this podcast is just to remember anyone listening that creativity is the cure for anxiety as well. And when you are afraid of something, when you're scared or angry of something or if something keeps coming back to you, it's your body telling you what you care about, you know.

And so sometimes finding a creative way to outlet that is really, is really great, you know, put on rage against the machine and jump around the house and just scream, you know, or go in the car if you can't, you know. Yeah, creativity. And I think that's, it's a problem when people think it's just about your career or it's just about, it's just aspirational. Yeah. Like, you don't have to show anyone your art. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I recently did like a paint and sip night with some girlfriends. I love that. And it was the first time I ever really like painted. I've done like the, what is it called? Like color me mine or paint a dream where you paint like the the mug or whatever it is. But this is my first time

ever really like painting on a canvas. And I just found this cute little photo on Pinterest. And I was like, let me just recreate this. And it was actually so much fun. All I've been doing recently is like painting TikToks. And I've decided, I just garden a bunch this past weekend. So I'm finishing that up. But I wanted like, I think I'm going to buy some canvases. And just paint because it was so enjoyable and fun and I really loved it. Like I didn't think that that was something. Yeah, it's so good. Because I've never been good at drawing, so I don't.

I didn't think that was going to be fun. Well, you know the unwritten staring at the blank page before you? Yes. That's about me in art class. Oh, wow. And there was a blank page before you. And the, I always found that blank page really daunting. Yeah.

For that first brush strokes on there is really scary. Yeah. I remember my teacher just saying, just draw a picture in 10 minutes. Like just... Don't deliberate on it. You have to draw anything in 10 minutes. And so you have to choose to be messy. Oh, wow.

And, like, do something like a 10-minute picture every day. Oh, wow. It really releases you, and it becomes a joy. Yeah. Wow. I love that. Well, speaking of Unwritten, I would love to talk about that song. Oh, good.

Okay, yeah. That, honestly, is, I love that the song, I feel like, has had this surge again from anyone but you. And I feel like you've written multiple time the songs, but unwritten truly is just, like, it's stood the test of time. And I don't know what magic sauce you put in there. It is just, it's so, it's so relatable and it's so good. I think we sang it at my like sixth grade graduation. And it's so, it's so crazy how it's relatable. Like, I feel like the song has grown up with us. Like, it's relatable at any point in your life. I'm assuming the answer is now, but did you have any idea it was going to be so relatable for so long? It has such a staying power. It's so great and it just keeps going. And I'm here for it.

You know, I'm just like riding along with everyone else. For us, me, Danielle, who I wrote it with and Wayne, Danielle Breesbois and Wayne Rodriguez, we knew it was special. Yeah. Yeah. We wrote another song on the same day. and then the bones of that song just kind of came through and we didn't have the chorus until the next day

like we actually couldn't figure out the chorus and we came back the next day and we had it and I think the test of a good song is what I always done is I try and sing it like I'm an audience member and sing it like I'm like soccer, English football You know, I feel the rain on your skin And it's funny to me because that's how everyone sings it

Like everyone sings unwritten Like absolutely releasing their inhibitions Absolutely not caring how they sound And that's the best You know not like trying to be perfect Just like a togetherness Yeah And yeah

We knew it was great The funny thing was that Is that I got nominated for best pop vocal Pope for best pot vocal I think in the Grammys and that was funny to me because when I sang Unwritten wasn't trying to sound like a great singer I was just trying to sound simple and honest

and so I was surprised that it would be like you know that my vocals would be something that people would have loved about that it was just like very simple and just talking you know I know you've shared before but I would would love for our lemon drops. That's our listeners. They're our lemon drop community.

I love that. I'd love to hear a little bit about where the idea of the song came from, what you wrote it about. I wrote unwritten, or we wrote unwritten about what we can kind of combined our own experiences. Obviously, what I like about songwriting, co-writing, so songwriting is that you kind of bring different elements to the room. But the first intention was just to write a song that was speaking to a 14-year-old, who was my brother, that was just kind of all the things I wish I'd heard at that age. And funny enough, I still love to hear it now. I still need to hear those messages, you know.

But like if you talk to Danielle, who I read it with, the lyrics with, both her and I had different experiences in our life of dancing in the rain. And she had this moment where she was in New York City and the rain is just coming down and drenching. And it's this decision to just enjoy it and just that it's part of the story. And for me, I think I had a lot of fear. And I remember that age where a lot of people were just always asking me, what are you going to be when you grow up? Like, what are you going to do? Who are you going to be?

And I remember that feeling like this very crippling pressure. Yeah. It's too much. It's too hard to figure out all of that in one go. And also people telling me who I should be, telling me this is who you are, and putting me in a box. And like my brother was a talented one. I was the one who works hard. I'm the one who looks after everybody.

And me being like, this is my story. I hold that pen. I can write it how I want. And I want this to be an adventure book. I want this to have highs and lows. And that gave me courage to step out and to quit university. and to try things because it's like, well, if it doesn't work out, it's a good story. You know, so you might as well try it, you know?

And so I kind of like try that along the way in my life, just like, okay, dump that boyfriend because maybe where you're going, he's not going to come, you know, and maybe you will be on stage one day. Wow, what a crazy idea. Everyone wants to be on stage. How could I, you know, how could I, but maybe I will. Why not try, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

Oh my gosh, when you were just talking, it made me think about, I was recently in Mexico with my husband on a little vacation and it started raining. And I was, I found myself laughing because I was just enjoying, we were on the beach and it just started raining. And I was laying in the sand, like in the rain, just like getting all soaked and gross from the sand. And I found myself laughing at normally, like, we're like rushing like in and out of buildings or like in the car, like through the door when it's raining and we're like, we don't want to get wet. We like feel this need to like feel safe. But in this moment, I was like felt so free to like be out in the rain. And I feel like it just is when you're saying that I was like I should have been listening to Unwritten while I was having that moment. Because as you're describing it, that like the lyrics of the song was what I was feeling in that moment. It's amazing. And it's such a good reminder for people to like just have that moment of Freeness. Yeah. No matter what age or stage of life that you're in, it's so important to like still have that moment of like just release. Yeah. I mean, I've got so much I can say about that because because there's these funny TikToks where people are going, Natasha Battingfield. You're wrong because it's freezing and it's miserable and it's true. It can be, if you're in a cold country, the rain, like I'm from London, like, the rain can be so miserable.

But also, like, okay, again, I'm from New Zealand as well. It rains every day in New Zealand. What I notice is that people just put a raincoat on. Like, they just figure out how to do life, even though they just accept it's going to rain and just, and dress up warm, but enjoy it anyway and splashing the puddles. And it's kind of like that. It's not like about, like, just finding joy when there isn't joy. Yeah. But like kind of working around life stuff and finding out how to, how to, I guess it is like how to enjoy yourself anyway.

Yeah. When anyone but you came out, how did you know that your song was, like how does it work? Did you know your song was going to be in the movie before it came out? Yeah, so they did reach out to me and I was really excited because through my publishers, they told me that it was the director of EZA, which I love that movie and he used Pocketful of Sunshine in ESA with Emma Stone singing in the shower and stuff. So I was like, absolutely yes, but please put me back in touch with the director

because he was so cool. So we got back in touch and he was like, by the way, it's really in the movie a lot. I'm like, cool, you know, but no, really a lot. Oh, wow, great. And it wasn't until I went to the premiere and saw that it really, he made the actors sing unwritten in every scene, which I've never seen a use of. Yeah.

I haven't seen a use of a song like that, really much. I thought it was really cool. And I felt so honored. Like, it just felt so cool and so funny. It was really the perfect song for it. That is, I feel like, my husband and I've watched that movie, like, so many times. It's just, like, the most feel good movie. And I feel like the director picked such a feel good song.

Like, it just, everything about it blends so well. Thank you. And I'm, that it's just, it's so great. And I've had the song stuck in my head. And I love Sydney, Sweeney. And I love Glenn as well. I mean, I love those guys. They're so lovely.

And yeah. Yeah. They made that all work. I mean, really, I'm so great because it happened with that. How crazy is that when something happens without your own control? That's the thing that why the song keeps speaking to me again and again, because I'm like sometimes there's things outside of my control, career, back to the mental health thing, but like you can try to make things happen.

Sometimes just stuff happens that's great. Yeah. It's so good. I mean, that's why I'm like I'm along for the ride, you know? It's so good. Yeah. I love it. What can, you mentioned you were writing, recording some music that you didn't want to give away too much of.

What can our lemon drops expect from you? New music. I know we talked about your touring. Lemon drops. I love it. I love your name, lemon drops. Yeah. I can't wait for you to hear my music.

I'm at a place where I'm like, it's got to come out soon. And, like, it's not going to be what's expected. because I'm the person who wrote unwritten. Yeah. You know, so I've got to live out those messages for myself as an artist and the things that I'm going to write. Like it has to be things that are, that's really odd. And it has to be unexpected.

But also you can never write another unwritten. Because basically I used up all my wise sayings in one song. You put all your eggs on one basket. And also unwritten's not going anywhere. So that's the thing. I don't have to beat that song. But I do think that I owe it to, anyone who loves that song to really live it through my life that I'm going to keep expanding

and growing and, you know, keep on being kind of tapped in in an inspiration way. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. It's so exciting. Okay. Last question. And then I will let you go.

I'm curious if you can go back to one moment in your life. What moment would that be? and what would you say to yourself? I just, I'm very present. I'm a present person. I'm in the moment right now. Yeah. I don't really want to go back to any moment.

Yeah. And I read, there's this book called Stumbling Stones, and it says that, wait, is it like that? Yeah. It says that humans are the only animal that they ruin the present by thinking too much about the past, either worrying about the past or glamorizing the past

and the future, glamorizing the future or worrying about the future instead of just being in the now. So for me, this is the moment and I really want to learn how to make the most of this moment. Oh my gosh. I love that. That was so good. Thanks for sweating. Thank you so much.

Thank you. You're awesome. So lovely. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.