The Squeeze - Nichole Schmidt: Gabby Petito’s Story

Episode Date: April 16, 2025

In this week’s episode, the Lautners are joined by Nichole Schmidt—mother of Gabby Petito—for a brave and honest conversation about the murder of her daughter. Nichole begins by sharing Gabby's vibrant personality and the moment she knew something was wrong when Brian returned home without her. She discusses filing the missing persons report, the overwhelming reach of Gabby’s story, and the heartbreaking confirmation of her daughter’s death. Nichole reflects on how her grief has evolved over the past three and a half years, the hardest parts of coping, and how her other children are navigating their own grief. She talks about the challenges of mourning publicly, the painful “what ifs,” and what to say—or not say—to someone who is grieving. We then dive into the Netflix documentary American Murder: Gabby Petito, the failures of law enforcement, and Nichole’s last interaction with Brian’s family. Nichole also shares the mission of the Gabby Petito Foundation, why domestic violence is a systemic issue, and how we can all be better bystanders. She closes with advice for parents and those worried about loved ones in abusive relationships—and what she hopes the world will remember most about Gabby.*Nichole is sharing her personal opinions and experiences, and the views expressed are not statements of fact.Be sure to follow Nichole https://www.instagram.com/niki_schmidt_/!Learn more about the Gabby Petito Foundation: https://gabbypetitofoundation.orgIf you or someone you know if a victim of domestic and/or sexual violence, please visit: https://rainn.org/To email us your questions or share your story, you can reach out to [e-mail] sure to rate, review, and follow the podcast so you don't miss an episode! Plus, follow us on Instagram:The Squeeze:  https://instagram.com/thesqueeze/Tay Lautner: https://instagram.com/taylautner/Taylor Lautner: https://instagram.com/taylorlautner/& TikTok:  https://tiktok.com/@thesqueezepodcastTo learn more from The Lemons Foundation, follow  https://instagram.com/lemonsbytay/ and visit lemonsbytay.comGo to Nuuly.com and enter the code SQUEEZE and sign up to get $28 off your first month.New customers can get the Liquid Lash Extensions Mascara and a mini-sized Brilliant Eye Brightener at a special set price with free shipping available at thrivecausemetics.com/THESQUEEZE. Or save more with 20% off your first order at thrivecausemetics.com/THESQUEEZEHead to Target or Target.com to find Cremo’s new line of antiperspirants and deodorants in the Italian Bergamont and Palo Santo scents.If you think you may be struggling with OCD and want to learn more about therapy with NOCD, go to https://learn.nocd.com/squeeze and schedule a free 15-minute call with their team. Visit masachips.com and use promo code SQUEEZE to get 20% off your first order today.Feel good... and mean it when you say it!! For a limited time, get Headspace FREE for 60 days at Headspace.com/SQUEEZE.Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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podcast is a dear Media production A plea for help Gabby Petito. Gabby Petito. Update now on a story we've been following for over two and a half years. It was a case that gripped much of the nation. New evidence, new questions.

Details continue to emerge. What Gabby's mom would have been thinking, knowing this is really the last footage of my daughter. Nicole, welcome to the squeeze. We are just honored to have you here with us today. We first want to apologize for the circumstance that you are here with us. True crime documentary. We get lost in the... the fact that there are real families behind these things that are gone.

And I will say straightforward, I don't think he killed himself. His mother is a sociopath. It was like a gut punch. Clearly, he did something to her. So did you hear from the kids? I haven't, I got nothing back. Yeah. They knew what he did.

And they hired an attorney, which we didn't know, obviously, till the depositions. I'm not going down without a fight. I actually just found out some new information a few days ago. A few days ago. And I'd love to share it with you. Nicole, welcome to the squeeze. Oh, my gosh. I'm so happy to be here.

I even wore my special sweater. You really dressed the part. That was the first thing I noticed. I had to. That's incredible. Oh, my gosh. Wait, I was going to ask, do you prefer Nicole or Nikki? I can go by either one, to be honest.

It's whatever you feel comfortable. Oh, okay. I know. I was watching something and they said Nikki, and I was like, oh, wait, Nikki or Nicole? If we call you Nicole, does it feel like you're in trouble? Sort of. Okay. So, Nikki, it is.

Nikki, Nikki. Perfect. Thank you. Welcome to the squeeze there. She's not in trouble. She was Nikki. I love that. Okay.

I mean, we are just honored to have you here with us today. And we first want to apologize for the circumstance that you are here with us and what your family has had to endure over the past three and a half years. But we're truly so honored that you chose to come to come. sit with us and share Gabby's story and your family story and just the beautiful legacy that you guys have really built for her. And we did this with Stacy Chapin, who we talked about before, has become a dear friend of yours. But I feel like it would be a great place for us to start to let our lemon drops to our listeners. Tell them a little bit about Gabby, you know, what was she like growing up? What was her childhood like? And just a little bit of

her personality? Sure. Oh my gosh. I love talking about Gabby. She came into this world and I always say she was a spitfire. I mean, she had this really big energy and big personality from day one. I was 20 years old when I had her. So, I mean, it was just crazy, but I'm glad I had a child young. I was able to keep up with her. And she was just going, going, going. She always wanted to run and play and got into art really early on. I mean, she picked up her first crayon at like probably six months old. It was, you know, she was already starting to color. And it went on from there.

And she just became this amazingly brilliant artist. I mean, she could just pick up a pencil and draw anything anywhere. And then she had a knack for photography. And obviously videography, if we watch her YouTube video, that was her very first video she ever made. So just a natural everything she did. Yeah. She was very much a person who liked things in their place neat and clean and tidy. Yeah.

And I loved that about her because I'm the opposite. I'm a scattered brain. Yeah. That is interesting, though, that she was very artsy but liked things in order because I feel like it's normally the artsies are just they can have things scattered everywhere in their brain. Totally. That's me. Exactly. I'm the artsy one, but yeah.

That's me. Yeah. She was just so opposite. And I was like, I love that about you. I don't know because she was a Pisces. I don't really don't know. But yeah, so she, I got her a tattoo gun before she went on the road trip. And she actually gave her brother a tattoo.

And he's the first, only person who has a tattoo by her on this earth. So he cherishes it. It's fading a little. What was it? It's a scene on his thigh. It's on his thigh, and it's like a scene of mountains and a river and like a camping scene. Oh, wow. It was perfect.

Like she, the first time she ever did a tattoo and it was, of course, because it was her, it was flawless. Wow. It's just unbelievable. Yeah. That's got to be really special for him to have. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I can't even imagine.

I think he feels very special to have that. I'm a little jealous. Yeah. Also, cool mom. Right? I knew. A tattoo god. I know. I was like, don't tattoo any strangers until you get licensed.

Yeah. That's funny. Still had to be a mom. But I knew she would be good at it. Yeah. Yeah. When you think of Gabby, this may be a tough question. But when you first think of Gabby, like what is the first thing that comes to mind? What's the first thing that pops into your mind? I just see her, her bright blue eyes and her big smile. and her energy.

And when I think about her, I always think about the last hug that I gave her. And we were standing in my driveway. And she was crying. And I hugged her. And I said, what's wrong? And she was like, I don't know. I don't know. And I thought she was just really excited.

And I cherish that hug so much. And I talk about it all the time because it's my favorite thing. And I'm so lucky. I'm like the only parent who has. had that out of all four of us. And, you know, I cherish it. And, but I just, I just see her. I can picture her in my mind anytime. She's just beautiful. Yeah. I'm pretty, I'm pretty good about holding back the tears as a, I'll try not to make you cry. Oh my gosh. No, no, no. We came prepared. We have, we got to share. So we came prepared.

Is there just kind of like pinging off with that Is there like a little mannerism that she would do or like a joke she would make something that you're like that was like Gabby's thing? She she would, I called them tall tantrums. She would stomp her foot and say, ugh. If she didn't like like get her away. And she did that pretty, pretty late. She was definitely an adult when she was still doing that. And she would just like roll her eyes, you know?

That was just, you know, but she, I don't know, she was just always happy, but, you know, she wanted the way she wanted. She's expressive. Yes. Very expressive in every way. Oh, yeah. You talk about, I love that you talk about just like you see her. And because it feels like, so I remember the end of 2021 when, when. when it was all over the news, all over the internet.

I've never seen anything quite like it, like the response to it, even when she was still just missing. And I truly think it is just because people, I think it's the same thing. I think people that didn't know her saw her and immediately saw that same thing that you see and think of that you know so well is just like the warmth and just like the brightness and positivity that just like exudes off of her. I think I don't know. I have wondered, you know, for the last three years why so many people became so, you know, involved and just like caring about this case so much and I think it is because of that and you know and because of gabby but I mean at the time it was happening did you know I mean obviously you did but how long did it

take for you to realize like how big of a story this was becoming as it was unfolding I it's so hard to describe because it was really really surreal um She went missing. You know, when I finally reported her missing on 9-11 of all days in 2021, I finally able to report her missing because she was an adult. It was difficult to do. Okay. The first thing I did was I went home, and now that I had this missing person's report,

I was able to make a Facebook post. I blasted it out to everybody I knew. And for some reason, 24 hours later, it was shared all over the country already. I was getting calls by the FBI. the next day. Wow. And this was literally just from sharing it on Facebook. I had the news calling me.

I think we did our first press release like two or three days after I reported her missing. And I just remember being terrified in shock, all these cameras in my face. And I just was like, I need to find my daughter. At that moment, I had hope, but I also had a mom feeling that something was really wrong because he was home with the van, and why would he be home with the van, just leave her? I know she wouldn't want to be alone. So it was just terrifying. But the FBI, the media, they told me they had never seen anything like this either.

Yeah. And it was just probably two to three days in. I realized it was worldwide. Yeah. And I always say it was Gabby. It's her. It's got nothing else to do with anything, but her energy and her spirit was like, I'm not going down without a fight and you're going to find me.

And she just touches people. I don't know what it is. It's her spirit. Yeah. Yeah. How did you feel about it going worldwide? Were you okay with that because it would help, you know, put attention on it or did it feel intrusive in any way? When you're looking for a loved one, it's what you want.

You'll take it. I feel horrible because there's families out there that get almost no local. attention. So the fact that it went worldwide, we were like, good, more eyes on it. You know, that's what you want. I would have went to the end of the earth to find her. Yeah. So at the time, yes, once we found her, then things got a little bit overwhelming with, because we were still in the media consistently for months after that. Yeah. Yeah. You touched on it, but I was, I was curious if there was a period of time that you had hope and held hope that she was just missing, or if from the beginning you had like mother's intuition and knew.

I want to say that I forced myself to have hope. But the second that detective told me that Brian was home with the van, I knew in my gut that she was gone. That was it for you. Yeah. I just, I went into shock. It's hard to describe what that feels like. But yeah, I knew. I knew.

Yeah. When did the detective tell you that, like, how long after you had posted that she was missing, did you learn that he was home? So it was early afternoon on 9-11 that I reported her missing. The detective, I guess, called down to North Port Florida, had them go look at the house. And they seen that the van was there. They never spoke to Brian, but they spoke to the parents. And then she came to my door and told me that that's what was going on. And it was like a gut punch.

It was a gut punch because I knew that clearly he did something to her. Yeah. And really scary. There wasn't a chance. Like in the back of your mind, you don't think he would have just. just left her, like they got in a fight or whatever, and he left her. And that's why he's home with the van. Did that? Or you're like, no. I tried to come up with thoughts. Maybe she found a group of people that were like hippies and she went off with them and left him. Or maybe he left,

they got no argument. He just left her somewhere and she just doesn't have her phone. I mean, I came with so many scenarios, but I'm like, by now she would have called me. It was almost two weeks that she was off the grid. Yeah. So, I mean, other than me getting a text, which now I know was from Brian, thinking it was her, she would have gotten in touch or at least she was trying to be a vlogger. I mean, she would have been on social media at some point. Yeah. Yeah, that was hard because we all talked and we were like, maybe this, maybe that.

But I just knew in my gut, I knew. Yeah. You touched on this a little bit and I'm just curious. You said it's a lot harder to file a missing person when they're an adult. Can you explain what that process is like and how it differs from a child? So typically, law enforcement will ask you to, let me really rewind that because with Gabby, she was in a different state. I was in a different state. She was living in Florida.

I was in New York. She was traveling. So that made it extra difficult. Typically, it's hard as it is with an adult because they're an adult and they can leave if they want to. That's according to police. But I called all the park rangers out west. I called the police department in Northport where she was living. Nobody wanted to take that report.

And I said, what do I need to do here? I begged when I went into the New York precinct. And they finally took it for me. And I was like, thank God, because I don't know how much longer the weather was. getting really bad in Wyoming, to be honest. If we had waited any longer, we might not have found her. So it just, the timing worked out perfectly. Wow. And then from there after you posted on Facebook, how long until she was found? It was nine days. She was found on September 19th. And that was other than the 11th being one worst day of my life, that was really the worst day of my life.

I knew I was going to get that call. But my husband made that call to me. And all of us were on the phone together. And it was, I can't even think about it because it'll take me back. And I don't want to, I don't want to go there. But it was really rough to get that phone call. Okay, lemon drops. let me tell you about one of my new favorite companies, which is Newley.

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Obviously, it's a little bit different circumstances than others. but how has your grief kind of shaped and changed and morphed itself, maybe from when you got that phone call to sitting here today? Wow. Yeah, that's a great question. Grief is like a roller coaster and it sneaks up on you when you least expect it. When you think you're having a good day, something triggers it. I don't think it'll ever go away.

There's never going to be closure or healing fully. But I get through it in certain ways. I forgive myself for having a bad day. Sometimes I want to lay in bed. Actually, the other day, I lay in bed all day on my computer doing work for the foundation. And I said, I don't care. It's just all those days. You have to, you have to just get through the moment by moment. You don't have to rush into anything and realize when you're having a trigger, it's okay. You have to give yourself permission. I see something on TV and I start to cry. I hear something on the radio. I can't. listen to certain songs, you know, that's going to be forever. But what's helped me through the grief is one running a foundation, which sounds crazy because it's really hard work, but I know that we're saving lives and like changing lives. And it just makes me feel, it fills my bucket, you know? Absolutely. So I love doing that. And self-care, lots of self-care. I've got to just slow down sometimes and say, I need a day. I'm going to. I'm going to.

go get facial or massage, just stupid things, you know, that I enjoy. Yeah, very important. We're all for self-care. I feel like that is something that is so important, just taking, you know, a little bit of time out of your day or week, whatever it is to go, like, get a coffee, go get a facial. Like, it can be, you know, it could be $5, it could be $50, like, whatever, whatever it is. It can be free. You can go out.

Because you're going to get burnt out without it. Like, look at the amazing work that you're doing with the foundation. Like, you don't want to sacrifice that. You're getting burnt out. So it's just, it's an absolute necessity. Yeah. Yeah. What do you feel has been the hardest part of coping with grief and Gabby's death?

That's a hard question. Sometimes I try to be too strong. I think that I'm like, I got to do this. I got to go do the speaking thing. I have to, you know, I push myself a little too hard. And I think that's my coping mechanism. So I have to tell myself, again, back to the grieving thing, take a break. But I do feel a lot of joy now.

And I know that Gabby wants me to feel that. I have the sadness when it's necessary and I get through it. And then I feel a lot of joy because she would be mad at me if I was miserable all the time. So I know she wants me to go on an adventure. and lived life just like she was doing. So, yeah. Yeah. I feel like that's just like a mom superpower that moms have of like.

I mean, I feel like I feel like we're talking with Stacey. Just like in the things you say like, you know, pushing through, keep going and talking about it. Like, you know, it can be hard, but also like that's just what you have to do. And I feel like it's such a mom superpower that, you know, you're able to keep doing all this. And, you know, definitely it's hard to kind of slow. down sometimes and take those breaks, but I think that's just a super power. And my other children. I have to remember that they're still here and we need to spend all the time we can with them to show them that it's not all about their sister, but also help them through their grieving.

Yeah, I was going to ask what their process was from the beginning until now, three and a half years. They're all so different, right? I have a 21-year-old son who was 18 at the time. time, you know, and he, uh, he's quiet about it. He just kind of goes about his day and doesn't really talk much about it. And my 16 year old, she struggled a lot. She just will be sad and doesn't know why she's sad. So I have her in therapy and, um, and then my youngest is 12. And she's probably handled it the best because she was, you know, nine-ish, nine at the time. It's funny how the younger, the younger one handles at the best. She'll be like, I have dreams about Gabby. And she'll, She talks about her, like, with no issues at all.

Like, she loves talking about her, and she loves pictures of the two of them together. And I'm like, maybe that was, like, an okay age for that to happen. But then I wonder, how are they ever going to trust anyone? Yeah. Because they trusted him. They liked him. Really? And, yeah, we all did.

I mean, we all were, like, he's a little weird, but he was really good with the kids. And I'm like, they must, I don't know what's going through their head with that. So that's hard. Yeah. Yeah. Has the therapy been helpful for your middle child? Absolutely. Okay.

Yeah. She enjoys it. She'll talk to me about it afterwards. She'll be like, oh, the therapist mentioned this and she thinks I should try this. So she seems to enjoy it because it's just an unbiased person that's not going to, you know, judge her for anything. And, you know, she feels comfortable talking to her. So it worked out. That's great.

I'm curious because you talked about the me. media attention at the beginning being a positive thing. But is there a difference in afterwards in your grieving process with it being just all over? Does it is it comforting having a collective grief or does all the attention on it make it more difficult to just make it that much louder and just. Yeah, not be able to step away, never get away from it. I think a little bit of both. We have amazing support, and we're very lucky to have that. But there were times when we felt like we didn't have time to grieve quietly as a family

because it's always been, it's consistently since 2021 been in the news, like something new comes out every like a couple of months. And we're like another thing. and, you know, some of it's positive. If it's for the foundation, we're, like, we're enjoying that. We're, like, getting so much love for that. But when we, when we need a break, it just, it's hard. It's hard to get a break.

Yeah. Yeah. Do, I just thought about this. Do you're younger to, did they have social media at the time? Yeah. So my middle and, you know, older son. obviously had stuff, but my daughter actually did have an issue. And there was someone at school that was making videos and crying about the story. And somebody she went to school with. And this

person didn't really know us well enough to even do that. So my daughter got very upset and responded on social media. Wow. The parents got upset about it and I didn't know what was going on. So I sent the videos of what their daughter was doing and they were like, we're so sorry. And I was like, yeah, I told my daughter we don't respond that way, but at the same time, I, like, understood why she was upset. Yeah. Yeah. But, but, yeah, so she had social media. I told her to just stay away from it as much as she could.

The younger one didn't at that time. But now she does, like, she's on TikTok and stuff, and she's, like, sees the videos of Gabby. But it's mostly positive. You don't really see a whole lot of negative stuff, which I'm, like, very blessed for. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. there's, you know, five stages of grief.

And the third one is the bargaining stage. And I'm curious, do you ever find yourself having those bargaining thoughts of, you know, I wish I could have done this? What if I would have seen this? Like, do you have those thoughts? And how do you combat those? Yes. There's the guilt.

The what ifs, the Monday morning quarterback. Is that how they say it? Yeah. If we had done this differently, if we had saw this, if we had learned this, at the end of the day, I tell myself, it was somebody who did this to her, and I'm not responsible for that. And I have to just let that guilt go. Yeah. Because I do think I did a really good job as a mom, and I don't want to ever blame me or her dad or her stepdad or her stepmom. We didn't do it.

at the end of the day, somebody else did this to her. And we trusted what she was telling us. We trusted that she was okay. Yeah. Even though I talk to her almost every day and I was always asking if she was okay. But yeah, I definitely go through those moments of looking back going, what if I just did something differently? And it eats a lot. It eats away at you. I'm trying to say it, right? It eats away at you. So you got to get rid of those thoughts because It's just going to take you down a rabbit hole that you don't want to go down. Yeah. I haven't experienced much grief in my life.

I've been very blessed to this point. So I always like asking people if they have any advice of something, because I haven't experienced grief myself, I feel like I never know exactly what to say to somebody. Yeah. What they like hearing, what they don't like hearing. So has there been anything that is nice to hear and also vice versa, the things that don't really aren't really the best? I'm okay with people not understanding and saying, I'm sorry for your loss. I mean, that's just what all they know, right?

They don't understand it and that's what they say. Some people get upset about stuff like that, but I'm like, I understand you're trying to be nice and that's fine. I mean, I have people come up to me and ask me questions about the case and the murder and Gabby. That's kind of rude. If I'm having a conversation with you after a while and you feel comfortable and you can ask, that's one thing. But like to just come up to me and be like, so, you know, do you think Brian's still alive, you know? And I'm like, is that really what you want to talk to me about? So I'm like, yeah, no, that's not what we're going to talk about.

And, yeah, I mean, some people just kind of look at you and they just give you that. I'm really sorry. Look, and that's fine. You don't have to say anything, really. You just be like, I am here for you. If it's somebody you know, if it's a friend, obviously. There's really not a whole lot to say. Yeah.

because it's difficult. Just to be there and show up. Be there. You don't have to say anything. Yeah. It's a hard, that's a hard question. Yeah.

Yeah. We recently had someone on that. She was saying food is better than flowers and how like she, she's like, flowers are pretty and all, but like bring me pasta. Like that's what she was talking about when she was going through. Yeah.

I would agree with that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we had something called a meal train when we were going through the whole process and that was absolutely helpful because I was not thinking about food or eating or cooking or anything. So yeah, it's a good point. This regular everyday things that people forget about. Sure. Yeah. It's a good reminder. Imagine constantly having thoughts so disturbing and out of character

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Yeah. Because, yeah, I mean, we watch, I probably all of the true crime documentaries and docu-series, but something that always sticks out to me, and we talked about this with Stacey Chapin, is there's real families behind these

things. Like people love to tune in and get their popcorn out for these, but I think we get lost in the fact that there are real human beings that are gone. There are

families like yourselves that have to live with it every single day. And I just think it's so important for people to remember that. Yeah. So I'm curious with the Netflix doc how it came to be. Was that something you were reached out to about or how did that, how did it work? During the process in the beginning we were having different interviews. I know we were like on Dr. Phil and we were just like meeting more and more people in that unscripted community, I would say. And we were approached about it and we didn't want to do it at first. And there was other ones being made about us. So eventually we said, you know, maybe we should because it would be our voices.

And that was important to us seeing all these misinformation coming. out. So we ended up meeting our producers and they were wonderful and they said we're going to work with Netflix. And it was a long process. It was like over a year. But in the end, I think it was beautiful. A lot was left unsaid. I mean, they had to cut out a lot. But they did a beautiful job for Gabby. I think she looked great. And the end scene when she's dancing on the beach is my favorite. So, yeah. So it was, it was your way of saying, we're going to take the, we're going to take the power back into our hands and we're going to tell the story the way it should be told and not let other people write the narrative. Correct. Correct. You know, you know, like Lifetime, like I mentioned before. And then whatever, you know, ID, date line, all those other shows out there, they just kind of put stuff together based on what they have instead of. us telling that story. So I mean, we turned down a lot of people because we were grieving. But they could have waited. They could have waited for us. Yeah. Yeah. Having to, I mean,

in this documentary, you really have had to relive all of this and explain, you know, every conversation. Like, we, I feel like we've just touched the surface of what you really dive so deep into in the documentary. And I can't imagine how hard that was for you to like really kind of dig back up and talk about it and relive. Was that experience hard for you to do? Yeah. I mean, it was about eight hours of interviewing like a straight day. That was hard. That was hard. And a lot of crying. A lot of like sometimes you have to say things over again because you say it right the first time. But then there's the B-roll. They have to take you, let's film you doing things. I was emptying my dishwasher. I mean, that wasn't even in the dock. So I'm like,

they didn't have to do all that. So the process was a little bit over the top, but I understand that lots has to be filmed and then it gets cut down and get the process. Was it tough for you to watch the footage back of Gabby and Brian? Oh, yeah. And I have all her, you know, unedited footage. And I had to go through some of it. And I just, I kind of would watch a little bit in the, I would just send it over to the producers because I was like, I can't want, I didn't even see the part where he rolls his eyes. I didn't see that until I saw the dock. Oh, wow. So that was like, whoa. Like, I never seen that side of him. Usually he was very polite and gentle. And like, I didn't, you know, just. And then now I can read his, the text messages back and forth between the two. with them. So I'm seeing another personality that I didn't know. Yeah, that was rough to watch. I hate watching them together. You won't usually see me use him in any of my presentations or talk about him much because I just, it should be more

about Gabby. She was the victim here. You know, we glorify murderers in this country and we don't talk about the victims. I don't even know the names of the, you know, famous serial killer victims. And that's sad. Yeah. It's really, really sad. When, you know, in the dock, they have the, what was it called? The police cam. Body cam. Body cam. Thank you. The body cam. Thank you. The body cam footage. And it's like a kind of eye opening. And there's, that's a, I have chills thinking about that whole part of a documentary. But had you seen the body cam footage before it was used in the dock? So it came out, I think, on the 13th or 14th of September publicly.

Oh, right after. So I did watch it then, like with the rest of the world when it was released. And while she was still missing. Well, yeah, while she was still missing. And that was shocking. I watched the whole thing like just I was intent and I'm like I have to I have to watch this to see if I see anything that gives me a clue. And I couldn't believe the way she was treated as a victim of domestic violence. She had marks on her.

She was locked out of her van. The 911 one caller was a witness that saw that she was being slapped. I just don't understand what more evidence do you need. And then it got turned around anyway. And she was going to get a summon. summons or something for that. Yeah. And then they told her, take the van and go take a shower and fist bumped him, put him in a

hotel that was paid for by domestic violence funding. Yeah. That was a... I know. I was going to ask how, I mean, I obviously know the answer, but I was going to ask how you felt about how enforcement handled that. Because I think after people saw the dock, and it just enraged so many people, including ourselves.

They dropped the ball. They definitely dropped the ball. They didn't even know their own statutes. And if they had used a lethality assessment, which they were supposed to be using, it might have been eye-opening for Gabby. And I think she would be here today if they had asked her those very important questions. Yeah. What is that assessment? So it's an assessment, and based on your answers, it will let you know if you're in danger of homicide. which it's pretty accurate. You only have to answer, I think, four of them, yes. And a lot of it is, has he, you know, they'll say choked. That's the language they use. Even though it's strangled, victims will use the word choked.

Has he choked you before? Has he, does he have a job? There's just a bunch of questions. I don't know why my brain is drawing a blank right now. Yeah. There's 11 questions, and based on how you answer them, you could be in danger, and then they could connect you with services. If you're willing to go, they can say you should go talk to an advocate.

And now in Utah, where that was, they are using it and they have to because it's now mandated. So it's doing its job. There's been really good data coming out of Utah. Yeah. Yeah. That seems like it would be a whole lot more helpful. then go take a shower and you guys stay apart for the night. Which they actually didn't.

I found sex messages and they did not stay apart that night. Yeah. Without knowing what was going to happen when we were watching the doc, I was like, we all know that they're not going to stay apart. Right. That's a ridiculous thing for the police to assume. Exactly. Yeah.

When you're a victim of abuse, you're going to go back because you're a friend. Yeah, and she doesn't want to be alone in Levan in Utah either. Yeah. I mean, he was still her, the person that she was, you know, being protected by, even though he was also the opposite of that. Yeah. So it's a weird dynamic. Yeah.

When was the last time you spoke to Brian's family? I mean, it was probably when they came to my house in New York to pick up Gabby's things to bring down to Florida with them. I think we texted a couple times. We were Facebook friends. I thought they were just quiet people, and I'm okay with that. You don't have to be my best friend. But yeah, I never actually spoke to them after that until we saw them when they did the depositions for our lawsuit.

I didn't speak to them then either, but I listened to everything they had to say, which was horrible. I think that that was that whole part of your story and the documentary watching it happen was really hard for me. Like that was the hardest thing. Like I can't imagine, you know, just the fact that they weren't helpful. It's the most infuriating part of the documentary. Yeah. In my opinion. Everybody feels the same.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, no, I can't imagine not helping another family. I don't understand other than the fact that his mother is a sociopath of some sort. I can't comprehend anything. If it was the other way around, I would have called them immediately. Yeah. I mean, I texted her asking if they heard from the kids.

I said, did you hear from the kids? I haven't heard from them and I got nothing back. Yeah. Because they knew. They knew what he did. They helped him. They hired an attorney out in Wyoming, $25,000. They put a retainer down on a return, a very high profile defense attorney, which we didn't know, obviously, until the depositions.

What was your, did you have a positive relationship with them beforehand? Or did you know how crazy they were? No, I just thought they were quiet people, but very nice. I actually have a text message I sent Gabby. After meeting them in my driveway, I said, oh, my gosh, his parents are so sweet. Oh, wow. Yeah, you don't know people. Yeah.

Yeah. It sounds like. It's very scary to think about. It sounds like that whole family has like two sides to them that they hide very well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, on this note, I just feel on the note of us just being infuriated by that, I feel like the second part of it is people not being held accountable for their actions.

And, you know, his mother definitely has knowledge of things and definitely seem to be cooperating. with him in some regard. How it like gets me going. I can't like think about it because it's just like so frustrating. But like I can't imagine you and like how have you had to like wrestle with that and people not being held accountable for their actions. It's infuriating, but I don't know what else I can do. I've asked the FBI. I've asked anybody,

why can't they be charged with something? They were there. And the only answer we got was that it was a misdemeanor, what they did, and because of the different states that were involved. But I'm like, how, I don't understand. And I actually just found out some new information a few days ago. A few days ago.

And I would love to share it with you because it's part, it goes right along with this. Okay. There was, I actually don't know their name, which is better. That was at the house when Brian was missing. And I would say he was hiding. He wasn't missing, but he was actually dead. But his room was completely gutted and renovated.

None of his things were there anymore. It was gone. So that very same week, Gabby was missing and cops were going to their house to try to get, I guess, a scent from their dogs to look for Brian. All his things were gone. The room was completely empty, just gone. And they said that there's something wrong with that mother. She's clearly not mentally well.

And I'm like, that's just add it to the list because I didn't even know about that. Yeah. That was crazy to hear. So, yeah, it drives me absolutely insane. That's the one thing I can't let go of because I'm, like, trying to figure out what can I do to make them pay for what they did. But there is really nothing I can do. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, why would they not, why would they allow, like, access in there? Like, should that not have been, like, a crime scene? because there's definitely a likelihood that there's stuff that would help, you know, information-wise in there? Like, how are they allowing things to be stripped and cleaned and thrown away and whatever from that house? Yeah, I have the same questions. The van was completely cleaned out. Mattress was never recovered.

And then all the things were packed away in a closet. Gabby's stuff was packed away in a closet. I mean, I don't understand. Yeah. I don't get it. Just strange behavior. And I know the scene where they go to the door and talk to the parents, they never actually talk to Brian directly.

Right. Nobody had ever seen him. So, yeah. That one gets me too because he was an adult, not like a child. Right. Yeah. Why are you talking about this? I'm like, why?

Yeah. It drives me crazy. That's the one thing that keeps me up at night sometimes. Yeah. Is the part, was this in the dock or was this something online? Is the part about his uncle identifying his teeth true? No. I believe, I don't.

have all the details, but there was a family member who had dental records who was a dentist, possibly. Either way, the FBI's, whatever, anthropologists, whatever they are, they identified his remains through DNA match from his parents. So it was legitimately identified. You know, I know a lot of people came up with these scenarios, but they were definitely all rumors. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. Is there any, other misconceptions like that that you hear a lot of that just isn't true or maybe is different? I think the biggest thing is just that Ryan's still alive. That people still think they only found part of him.

They found his whole body. They found his whole skeletal remains. And then people are like, well, how is that possible? It's because it was swampy and hot and animals were there and the water. It was just, you know, but they did find all of his bones except for two small foot bones. And, yeah, it was him. I mean, they did the DNA match. They did what they were supposed to do.

Is it awkward the way it happened? Yes. I don't understand how the parents were able to come and all of a sudden he was found. I know it's weird. It's definitely weird. And I do have questions about certain things like the bag being found so easily and stuff. But I let that, I let it go because I'm like, he's gone. That's, I can, I need to move forward.

Yeah. I don't need to worry about stuff like that. But yeah, it was definitely strange, strange situation that happened. The whole, the whole thing has been strange day one. Yeah. And all of, it's all around those parents. It's all around his parents. You know, and I will say straightforward, I don't think he killed himself.

I think either his father did or she did. I have no problem saying that. That's just my opinion. Okay. That's not a fact. It's an opinion, but. Were they able to identify a cause of death for him or no, since he was? They said suicide.

Okay. Yeah. Why do you think they, one of the parents, would want to have killed him? Better than going to jail or facing what you did. Got it. Um, that's the only thing I could come up with in my mind. The way, if you, you know, read her burn after reading letter and just the weirdness that, that they are, I, I don't, I don't find it, um, impossible. I think that it's very possible that they did something. Is there anything about him? Why you don't believe that he would have taken his own life? Well, you know, if you read the stuff he wrote in his notebook, kind of made a little stuff.

up excuses. So he didn't want to take responsibility for it. So then why would he take his own life? You know, it was almost like he was a coward. Yeah. So, you know, I just, it's just a gut feeling that I have. And I mean, I just, I can't even believe that they're just walking around. Like, nothing happened. She didn't even cry during the depositions, talking about her son, you know, calling my daughter Gabrielle saying that they did love her and stuff. No, that's not love. Yeah. So, yeah. A lot of anger, a lot of anger still towards them, but I try not to think about them because I have so much good work to do.

It was so much good work to do. Yeah. And it just feels like a lost cause. Like, it's like they don't even deserve like a moment because clearly they just don't make sense. Like there's just so much wrong there. You could spin your mind for the rest of your life. Yeah. Trying to figure out why they do these things and why.

It's like you are never going to get to the bottom of that. It's frustrating. Yeah. It is best as hard as it is to just like. Let them. Yeah. Just have to hope like karma is real and does its thing there. And, you know, they'll answer to somebody someday. Yeah.

And at the end of the day, too, like they also lost their child. So, like, you know, whether they feel. Well, that's also the crazy part about her saying that, like, you know, they didn't shed a tear at the depositions. Like, you also lost your child. Yeah. Like. It's very weird behavior. Because even after everything they did, you would think that they'd be still sad that they lost their son.

Yeah. I actually see sadness in the father. But I don't see any emotion in her at all. Nothing. It's like blanks. Nothing. Yeah. Yeah.

I can't imagine how hard that is just like trying to find closure for yourself in the sense of, you know, you obviously will never have closure with Gabby being gone. Right. But just closure of this mess of what has happened and just people not being held accountable. But I think, you know, actions definitely speak louder than words. And I think people's actions have shown. Yeah. Well, people's actions should have consequences.

Yeah. But again, yes, you're right. I'll never have closure there, but I can't dwell on that because I'll be miserable. And that's not what Gabby wants. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you can, Gabby, I'd love to talk about the foundation.

Yes. Sure. That's all right. Can you tell our lemon drops a little bit about why you started the foundation and the mission behind it? Well, it's crazy because it was like basically. right after we had the service for Gabby. Wow. I was getting a bunch of emails from survivors of domestic violence and people that actually

had already at that time said, I saw Gabby's body cam footage and I'm safe now. I left my relationship because I don't want to end up like Gabby and things like that. I just got so many chills from this. Literally. Wow. I actually am starting because of Gabby section on the website soon because I get a lot of that. And I was like, oh my God. God, like, we have to do something.

I don't want this to happen to anybody else. So I called the other parents, and I was like, I don't even think my husband was home. I think he, I don't know where he was. I just called everybody. I was like, can we start a foundation? And they were like, okay. We were all just completely delirious, right? We're like, sure, Nikki, whatever you want.

We're delirious, exactly. I'm like, let's just do it. So we did. And we had so much support. I mean, the fire department that my husband belonged to for many years, they put on our very first fundraiser. I think it was like $30,000 first right off the bat. Wow. So we just went for it.

Yeah. And it really kept me going. I think that really helped me. It kept me busy. Yeah. I met a lot of people, amazing people, and helped a lot of people. I just, it feels really good to do that. So, yeah, Gabby Petito Foundation.

What else would I have named it? Because it's her, it's her light. You have this saying that domestic violence isn't a woman's issue. It's a systemic issue. What do you think needs to change in the way that domestic violence cases are handled? I'm going to come back for a whole show on this. But yes, everything needs to change. Stop asking why doesn't she just leave?

question. Stop asking that question. Why are people abusive? Let's change that. Start asking that question and start teaching kids at a very young age about healthy relationships, including friendships and it goes into the same loop bullying and all that. Like just teaching them healthy relationships. Schools don't want to do this. And we've hit roadblocks trying to get into schools. Some have invited us in, which is amazing. I talked to teenagers a few weeks They are so smart and they want to learn. Yeah. And this is what they need.

They need to know that they have boundaries and what's not okay, what red flags are. They just need to learn. And also I had one kid ask, how do I know if I'm being an abuser? Like how do I look at myself and say, am I doing these things? Wow. That's the awareness that we need because if people become self-aware and then they want to change, I believe it can change things. How old was that kid?

Oh my God. 15 or 16. Wow. Yeah. They're brilliant. Like kids these days, I feel like, I don't know if it's social media or what. They're just so much smarter than I was back in the 90s. Yeah.

Yeah. The whole why don't they just leave thing. Yeah. Is so infuriating. It's, yeah, that's always, that's always bugged me. Because I've heard so many people say that in so many, you know, different. scenarios and situations, you know, in relationships, whatever. Why don't they leave? Why do they keep going back?

Yes. And that's the problem with law enforcement. They don't understand those dynamics. And they do get frustrated. And I understand that because they get frustrated that they made an arrest. She went back. They make an arrest again. She went back again. And then they stop caring. But then if they learn why that happens, that would make the difference. They don't learn why that happens. So we want to teach, you know, police officers, first responders, 9-1-1 operators, all the different dynamics that they need to understand to say, she's going to go back a few times possibly. And I use she because, you know, not all men are abusers, but most abusers are men.

So I just use that term openly. Statistically, yeah. Yeah. Not that women are abusers and then, you know, same-sex relationships. There's abuse in every relationship. Parental, I mean, there's all kinds of abuse, elder abuse. But when you're focusing on domestic violence, it's typically women being abused. And I've been seeing, there's a lot of body cam footage out there, which is great because I can, like, study it.

It flips around every time it's called Darvo. It's deny, attack, reverse offender. and it happens and like the person who's being abused will get arrested. And it's so frustrating because they're clearly the one that needs the help. Yeah. But it's also frustrating that when there is someone found to be an abuser, they get arrested even. The abused person has to pick up their life and go. They have to pack their bags.

If they have kids, animals, they're expected to leave the home. And I'm just like, why? Why doesn't the abuser have to leave? And it just drives me now. So we just need to flip the narrative in society. Yeah. And I think we could do that little by little, you know, through all the different trainings and getting the youth involved and just it's going to take a long time.

But we have goals. Yeah. Yeah. I do feel like the narrative has slowly started to change a little bit around it because it's definitely is something that is so stigmatized. Oh, yeah. why does she keep going back? And I do feel that we're starting to see a mentality change in society with that.

I think, yeah, we're slowly chipping away at it. Yeah. And then there's great. There's police officers that want to do better. And I love that. LAPD reached out to us. They want us to come to a training there. Massachusetts had a law enforcement agency reach out.

So I'm like, you guys are great. Like you're looking for help and you're self-aware. And I just, I love that they're asking. That's amazing. That's really great. In the documentary, it shares the 911 call of the bystander that witnessed their whole altercation. How can someone be a good bystander if they see or suspect that something might be DV? Well, the first thing is personal safety.

Don't get involved if you feel unsafe too because you don't know what's going on with that person. He did all the right things. he I mean that couldn't have been a better a better witness I mean he had the descriptions he said what he saw he's had the description of the vehicle

the license plate the direction it was going and the operator on the other end of the line was like terrible yeah terrible two different sides of the spectrum there and I mean I respect you know 911 operators they have a hard job

they're the first first responders sure and and they might be jaded and have bad days, but when you have a witness that's telling you exactly what's going on, that could have been easily communicated to the police officers, which it was not. Yeah. What advice would you give someone who suspects that a loved one might be in an abusive relationship?

I get that question all the time, and I've learned that you can't judge them. You can't tell them that you think they need to leave that person. You have to be more just there for them. You have to be a safe person that when the time does come, they know that you're going to be the one that they can come to. A lot of times I get a lot of it from parents. I want my daughter out of this relationship. And I was just working with a mother that did all the right things. And her daughter's back home and safe.

And I'm like so happy. And she just, she was there for her daughter and didn't push. you know, her way by saying you need to leave him, you need to leave him. So just being there, letting them know you're there very subtly. And if you're concerned for their safety, you can in the right moments mention like, hey, I'd like to talk about something I'm concerned about. But doing it in a very minimally aggressive way. You know, you want to just show them that you care.

Yeah. That's good advice. My last advice question is advice for parents on how to keep that open line of communication with their kids if maybe it's a parent that suspects that their child is an abusive relationship. Just trying to keep that relationship close where doing normal things with them, taking them to the mall, to the movies, just opening up communication by talking about normal things. And then, you know, it's the same thing like we just talked about or don't judge them for anything. But let them know that you're always going to love them.

They're not going to do something that, you know, you're going to be angry at them for and that they can come to you and give you that information and that you're going to be there for them and try to help them through anything. I mean, being parents hard. And kids are sometimes afraid to tell their parents stuff. I mean, obviously Gabby, I don't know why, and it has a lot to do with domestic violence dynamics, but Gabby didn't feel like she could tell us what was going on. And I want parents to understand that, like, just at some point, let them know,

if somebody's ever hurting you, you need to come to me because I'm going to be there for you. But when you're suspecting it's already happening, you have to be that safe place. It's hard before you push them away. Just be there for them. Yeah. You're doing really amazing work with the foundation. I mean, you truly are going to save so many lives. So it's awesome.

Thank you for doing what you do. Thank you. Appreciate that. You touched on this earlier, and I was going to bring it up because I've thought about this a lot is, I feel like most of the time when we hear stories like Gabby's. The victims become forgotten and all the attention is on the offender. Yeah. And in this case, I feel like it is the exact opposite. And I think it goes back to, you know, what we talked about at the beginning when, you know, you're just talking about seeing her.

It's just so many people that that don't know her immediately see that light and pure spirit of hers. And I just think it's a really wonderful, amazing thing that Gabby's story is Gabby's and no one else's. If there's one thing you hope people take away from Gabby's story, what would that be? I want people to remember that Gabby was a person. She's not just a story or a documentary character. I know we watch these documentaries and we think that could never happen to me. It can happen to anyone. I want her to inspire people to live fearlessly and go on the trip, take the photos, you know, live life to the fullest because tomorrow is not promised. She wouldn't want any of us to live in fear because of what happened to her. You know, you have to just go for it, live the dream. And that's something that she did. And I was, I was envious of that.

I'm like, you're so young and I can't believe you're doing this. And I just want people to take that. And I think they do. I mean, Gabby touches people all over the world. It's crazy. Australia, we get a lot of people from Australia. They feel like they know her. They're like, it's so weird.

Well, that's the thing. Yeah, people literally act like they know this person. Yep. And that clearly has to be something to do with her and her magic. Yeah, I don't know. It's just she's a bright spirit and she wants to do more work from where she is now. I always say she's able to save lives and do work that she couldn't do here. Absolutely.

Yeah. Wow. Well, Nikki, thank you so much for. joining us and we are just so honored that you are trusting us with Gabby's story and your story and yeah we'll leave a link to your foundation so people can go and check it out and support but yeah thanks for thanks for coming thank you so much oh this was a lot of fun thank you if you leave some off being out my door because it would take a whole lot of medicare to realize what we used to have, we don't have it anymore.

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