The Squeeze - Victoria Garrick Browne: Athlete to Advocate

Episode Date: July 31, 2024

This week, Tay is sitting down for a girl-talk solo episode with former Division I athlete and mental health advocate Victoria Garrick Browne! Victoria opens up about her experiences with mental health as a student-athlete and reflects on how the high pressures of sports can affect mental well-being. She shares invaluable advice for student-athletes on maintaining a healthy headspace and delves into her personal journey with body image and eating disorder recovery. Victoria also discusses the inspiration behind her #RealPost movement and the importance of not comparing your life to others on social media. She talks about her nonprofit organization, The Hidden Opponent, which was recognized as a standout resource for athletes by Kobe Bryant in his novel, Geese Are Never Swans. To wrap up, Victoria shares which crucial steps are needed to make mental health resources more accessible for athletes!Be sure to find Victoria Garrick Browne on Instagram @victoriabrowne! Also, check out The Real Pod and The Hidden Opponent.To email us your questions or share your story, you can reach out to [e-mail] sure to rate, review, and follow the podcast so you don't miss an episode! Plus, follow us on Instagram:The Squeeze: https://instagram.com/thesqueeze/Tay Lautner: https://instagram.com/taylautner/Taylor Lautner: https://instagram.com/taylorlautner/& TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@thesqueezepodcastTo learn more from The Lemons Foundation, follow https://instagram.com/lemonsbytay/ and visit lemonsbytay.comEpisode Sponsors:Ritual’s Essential for Women 18+ is a multivitamin you can actually trust. Get 25% off your first month at ritual.com/THESQUEEZE. Use code SQUEEZE at checkout for 15% off your entire order at www.vionicshoes.com when you log into your account. 1 time use only. Get your free LMNT Sample Pack with any purchase at drinklmnt.com/SQUEEZE. Also try the new LMNT Sparkling — a bold, 16-ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water.To learn more about therapy with NOCD, go to nocd.com and schedule a free 15-minute call with their team. Go to badlandsranch.com/SQUEEZE to get up to 50% off your regular-priced dog food order with a 90-day money-back guarantee. Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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without your re-sadviseur or sunnycars. The following podcast is a dear media production. Our culture has created this belief that we need to be achieving all the time in order to be happy. This idea that once you achieve one thing, you're never going to have problems or compare it.

Like, that's not real life. Look what internship she got. Look what trip he went on. This constant scrolling of people who look like they're doing so, so well. We all are like comparing our life to someone else's, and then that person is comparing theirs to someone else's. The crux of being human is like, we all suffer.

You sit back and say to yourself, well, what am I doing? I just gas at myself of like, oh my God, are you not cut out for this? If you don't puke, faint or die, keep going. try to break the comparison pattern and have the abundance mindset attached to no achievement. So you work so hard to get to Cloud 9 and then you have to like stay afloat on Cloud 9. When life gives you lemons, what do you do with them? Over here at The Squeeze, we talk about it. Victoria, welcome to The Squeeze.

Thank you, Tay. This is very exciting. We've been trying to get this going for quite some time. And this is like the perfect day. I'm feeling like I want to yap, yap, yap. I love that. I'm here to yapp. with you. Okay, we start every episode off with a game called Citrus Got Real, this little jar.

I literally heard the sound effect in my head. As I said, that's like, did-de-de-de. That's not a good, that's not a good, um, recreative the sound. But feel free to pull a piece of paper out of there. Okay. And you can read us the question. Fun. If you could suddenly have a random talent, what would it be? Oh, frick. Um, what would yours be? I love singing and I'm, I'm average. If I was in the back of a bar, you wouldn't be like, hey, who gave that girl the mic? But you also wouldn't be like, that's undiscovered talent. Yeah. So I would say I'd want to be like, I mean, unreal. Like, I'd love to have like an insane singing voice. That was my, that was my first reaction to, was to be able to sing. Because like, that would be insane. And also I just, I just went and saw, well, you just saw Tate McCray, too.

I'm just, like, obsessed with her. I know. She's, she's mesmerizing. Yeah. My second one would be to dance like that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So if I could like just sing and be like a cute little pop star, that would be really fun. God, being a pop star, that was always the dream. Always the dream. I literally was so delulu. I would be like at, I remember going to see my favorite artists. Obviously, Taylor Swift is one of them. And I would be like, one day, like, I want to be up there doing that. Oh my gosh. And like almost sort of like, what was I thinking? You could still do it. I have that same, that same thing. I feel like I could like even like still today. If someone was like, do you want to do this? I'd be like, yeah, sure. Like I could do it. Right. That's, I'm just a really big dreamer. That's probably not. I'm mesmerized by people who have like the dancing, singing, acting triple threat. Yeah. No. I danced growing up. Obviously, I'm not to the degree of these backup dancers into Tate McCrave. But I'm like, if I could just sing, then I could like get by. You need to try the DCC Thunder struck dance. Oh, I have. How is it? I have. It was good. I haven't posted it. I can't kick, though. I'm not flexible anymore. So I can't do like the kicks. But my girlfriend was over and she was like, TAY, you need to learn this dance. I need you to learn it. And I was like, okay, do I mean teach to you? She's like, no, I just want to watch you do it. So I learned it. And like, my knees are still a little sore because she made me do it. I need you to post the footage. The people want the footage. I know. I need to do it. She was like, can you do it again. She's like, it needs to be more full out higher kicks. Yeah, literally. Oh my gosh. I need to do it. I need to do it. She was like, can you full out higher kicks. Yeah, literally. Oh my gosh.

That's so fun. Okay, wait. I was going to ask earlier, where are you from? I'm from Northern California. Okay. I was actually born in Chicago. Fun fact. But I was raised pretty much since I was like three years old until 18 in Northern California.

Okay. Where in? Right by Stanford. Okay. So like near Menlo Park. Okay. Palo Alto. I've only been up there.

Actually once. I went to a 49ers game. Well, I went to a Lions game at they played the 49ers in the city. Yeah. Yeah, well, it wasn't that fun because we lost. It was the NFC championship game. So it was a little, do you follow football at all? You know, now that my husband is a full-time football broadcaster, I feel like I.

Oh my gosh, cool. I know. It's so exciting. That's recent for him. He just made a big career switch. Oh. So this season, yeah, he'll be the lead analyst on the CW network. Oh, my gosh.

So I will be watching every ACC football game. Okay. So I think if you asked me after this coming season, I think I'm going to know a lot. Yeah. Like I'm able to talk shit about like players. Yeah. Is the goal. Yeah. I always like loved, I loved sports. I'm an only child and my dad like raised me like a son. Like I played every sport. I know all the sports. And Taylor's obsessed with football. He likes college, but like NFL is like where his heart is. So like Sundays he's like locked in his like little TV room with like all the games on all the screens. And yeah. He's definitely taught me some. But it's fun like learning it. Because. and like I like I follow the news of it. So then I like send him like the quick little messages because I wake up before him like, oh my gosh, so and so got traded to so and so. Totally. That's fun.

I'm passionate about more women understanding how the rules of the game are because I totally get how confusing it is. But I've made a few like football one-on-one videos because I want people like because otherwise when your man's is watching it or your dad or your family, you feel like you're so left out. But if you knew what was going on, I think. it makes it more interesting. Yeah. No, definitely. And it's more fun and like, it's really cute because like Taylor will like, I can tell when he's like watching some like sports interview or reading like some news or stat or something. He like gets ready to tell me. I'm like, what do you want to tell me? Like I can like feel it. And he's like, okay, guess who the top five paid running backs are? And you like just like random. Like it's so excited to tell me because like I actually know some stuff.

It's a cute. It's a cute little bonding thing. How did you and Max meet? We met in college at USC. Okay. There's a long, a short, a mediums. There's so many ways to tell the story. But I would say, so yes, we met in college. Actually, my very first party ever.

Okay. Literally freshman year. I was there early for volleyball training. So school hadn't even started. And the very first party I went to that weekend, we met from his memory. I don't remember meeting him. Oh, my gosh. Not because I was like drinking or anything.

We just met a lot of people. We were like the new volleyball girls. We were being paraded around by a teammate to meet everyone. Yeah. It wasn't until, like, as the year went on, I, like, got to know him more. And I always thought he was, like, so funny. And I love being around him. But I knew he, like, really liked me.

Uh-huh. And I was coming out of, like, a high school relationship. And I just wanted to be single. Yeah. Like, I literally, it could have been anyone. I would not have wanted a boyfriend my freshman year of college. Yeah. So, you know, I did friends own him.

Oh, my gosh. That's so funny. And then a year later, I realized I was a silly girl and he was husband material and like my favorite person. And then we, I basically had to like give him an alleyup to ask me out because I'd kind of dodged him a few times. Yeah. And so then that hangout, I remember we kissed. And I like don't even remember it because I was just like butterflies the whole time. And then from that moment on, we've like been inseparable.

It was eight years ago. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. That's so sweet. How funny is that. We have a friend that is the same. They don't remember. The girl doesn't remember their first meeting with the guy, like, absolutely remembers it.

And she's like, I didn't mean to, but like the same thing. It's so cute. It's like kind of the love at first sight type of thing. He always says he's like, I saw your smile and I could just tell you were like so genuine and not like, you know what I say? Not like the other girls. Not to be so pick me because we love other girls. Yes. But I think it's cute that he says it was my smile.

Oh my gosh. Wait, that's so sweet. And you guys have just been together ever since. Yeah, we have. We've done long distance. We did three years. He was at Pittsburgh. I was at S.C. because he transferred. Okay. And then he was in New York. So we have, yeah, had a lot. It seems great now because we live together and we're in Santa Monica. But we did three years of long distance. Oh, wow. And when did you guys get married? We got married almost two years ago, August 13th of 2020. Okay. Oh, great. So we're just like a couple months behind. I know. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I love that. I remember seeing your wedding on like.

It was so gorgeous. Oh, thank you. It was fun. Okay. Let's dive into this mental health talk. Before, so before going into college and being an athlete, was mental health a thing for you? Was it in your family? Was it talked about?

I would say it was not. Okay. I was someone who was always trying to be like a standout in my class, especially when in sports, you know, in eighth grade, I was like female athlete of the year. And so I say that because I was really focused on like succeeding and I put a lot of my worth and like my ambition and my drive and, you know, the pursuit of success. Yeah. So when I would hear about mental health, which wasn't a lot, these are different times. I feel like we're now like our parents being like, it was different times. And I know for them it was major different times for mental health.

But I only remember like a few specifically one like seminar and how. high school, my sophomore year, where we had something about mental health, education. And I remember just thinking, not like this isn't important, but just being like, oh, I can like zone out because this just won't ever affect me. Like, I work too hard. I'm too focused. I'm too strong. And the way this conversation is communicated is it's a weakness or you've fallen off the track somehow. And I will not accept that like that could be me. Yeah. So going into college, no. know, like, that was not on my radar. And I'm very privileged that it wasn't until I was 18 years old that I really started to deal with mental health issues. Of course, I had body image and

disorder eating up until 18, but I wouldn't qualify like what I went through as as severe as what I experienced in college. When did that start for you? Oh, young. I would say, I think I remember being like 12 or 13 and being really aware of my body and how much I weighed. And I was that young having like slim quick shakes be cut for meals. Oh, wow. Yeah. I was me. It wasn't that bad. Me. Maybe it was. Oh, wow. Yeah. So would you say that do you think it got worse as your mental health worsened your body image stuff? Or was that just like, has that always been a thing for you since you were a kid? I think it got worse because when I was in before college, I would diet. I would count my calories. I would do these crazy things to lose weight. And I was very like into it.

And it was definitely not healthy. It was not normal. But because I was able to kind of keep up with my rigid rules and routines, it never like, I think got too far. The problem was in college, I was dealing with performance anxiety and I was in a completely new environment. And, you know, we were lifting weights like crazy. Like I'd never had before. I'm way hunger than normal. I mean, our double days, we're going through two practices, a lift. Like, I mean, my practice block freshman year was the hours of one to six.

Oh, wow. Was during the school day, Monday, the Friday was dedicated to sport. Not that we were like exercising from one to six, but that whole block was either two to three hours of practice, an hour lift, film, you know, fuel, rehab. So my body was changing. And it was, of course it was. It was getting stronger, right? It was adapting to the new level I was playing at. For sure. And that was really hard for me, like not fitting into the jeans I brought, seeing the number on the scale go up, being terrified of gaining the freshman 15. Yeah. And so. to combat that, I was like, okay, I'm just going to go back to my little thing, which is I do this diet and I count my calories and I have my shake or, you know, whatever. This is what I'm going to do. I'm going to get really rigid. But it no longer worked because I was so anxious and then so hungry. And the output I was demanding from my body was so much greater that that's what led me into a binge eating cycle. So then it was like the binge eating, the restriction, the binge eating the restriction,

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like the lettuce patty, like just the lettuce. No, like just like strictly lettuce and like a little thing. And someone was like, were you okay? And like someone literally just asked me if I had any, like, form of disordered eating or like what was going on. And I was like, oh, it's a good question. I never actually like thought about, yeah, that probably wasn't a thing. Because yeah, same thing. Like I am a smaller person. But I always like, I have quads. I have like, I always have had like meat on me. And, you know, when you're like a little ballerine and that's not like a desired thing. So I was like, oh, maybe I did. And a lot of that was really normalized. I think when we were very much. It was like not a weird thing for me to be on a diet and counting calories and have my meal plan

pasted to the fridge for my whole family to see that I was trying to lose two pounds a week. Like that was, oh my God, good girl. You're so on top of it. Like that wasn't a weird thing. Yeah. We just like didn't know. I feel like from working, this is a sideware, but from like working in hospital and then like having PTSD, my brain like has forgotten so much stuff. And I like randomly get little things back in my brain. So I'm just like remembering little things from like high school right now as we're like talking through it. I was talking about that with my therapist this morning because I feel like I have a bad memory is what I'll say. Yeah. But she is pressing me to realize like my like high functioning anxiety like has like a thousand thoughts happening at one time. So of course

I can't like really process a moment I'm in and remember. it well, but like if I do sit down and I try and I think and I go back to look at the pictures, like it comes back to me. Yeah. But I do think like with trauma or things that we experience that are really difficult in our life, you just, your brain doesn't remember all of it. Yeah. And also, I don't know if you feel this way as an advocate for mental health, but I found that I've done so much storytelling around it. Like, I mean, I used to travel around the country and give keynotes and there's only so much you can say in 45 minutes. And so I've almost felt like it's this weird relationship where my story is so much bigger and my experiences are so much

more vast than what I like go to say immediately. But it's what I decided to put on paper and put into a talk. Yeah. And then this is why I don't do that much public speaking anymore. And then that's so warped. It's like I'm performing a telling of my. issues and then I'm hoping people like it. So I'm like seeking validation in the way I deliver it and not the people who paid me to be there think it was good. And then I just couldn't do it. I was like, this feels it's not working for me. Wow, that's so real. I love your therapist's advice because I she's like to that so hard. And that made me feel very validated because that is how my brain is. I'm like, I always have to have a piece of paper like by me if I'm working because I'll be like responding

to emails and then doing something on my phone. And then I'm like writing. another thought that's coming to my mind. So I always have that piece of paper because all of my little things. And then I'm like, oh, crap, I forgot what they were because there was 15 million of them. So now I've been, like, writing them down on a piece of paper to, like, actually get them down. So then I don't forget. That's good. Quote unquote. She would say if I'm cosplaying my therapist. Yes. That the next step is, like, of course, there's going to be really important things. But, like, just like not writing it down and being okay with, like, something's going to fall. Yeah. And, like, I'm going to be fine in my business.

will be fine. Like, I think as entrepreneurs, like, no one's going to work hard on your business than you. Yeah. And so you have all these thoughts constantly. And also just like care as deeply about it. And I think I just have this like, oh my God, like it used to all live in my brain. And now we have a calendar system and we have an asana. And we have all these processes. And I help me, which is amazing. But even like on my drive here, like, I'm listening to an audio book and I'm trying to be present. And I'm like, oh my God, did I do the thing? And I was like, we're here. We're driving. We're doing this. Like, and if I remember it, later, I'll remember it later. And if I don't, no one's going to die. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's so true. I feel that, yeah, I feel that same way as like, but it's hard. Being an entrepreneur and like having all of these things and like, yes, you have people, but like it's not their life, but this is like my life. Like all of these things are like my babies. And so like learning how to like turn my brain off and I don't sit still

very well. I always feel like I need to be doing something. So like trying to find that balance of, okay, no, I can't actually, like, turn off. Like, if the social post goes up an hour late, it's okay. Like, if these things happen, it's okay. The world's so going to turn and it's still going to go. Totally. And I'm reminding myself trying to learn all this stuff, too. It's kind of, I think the growth state I'm in right now is healing my perfectionism

and deep sense of urgency. Are you, do you, have you done like the Enneagram test before? I haven't. But I think people tell me I'm. I forget what they tell me. A three. A three. Yeah. I'm a two wing three. Yeah, the three is like the perfectionist achiever person. Two is like the helper. That's like my nurse and me comes in. But yeah, I have I have the three. So I'm not as achieve oriented as you and a couple of my close friends are like very similar to you. But that's definitely like a driving force in my life. Okay. Back to the story because we

side shot and this is probably going to happen five more times. When did your anxiety start to set in when you were in college? I would say it was gradual and then it hit me all at once. And when I feel like this, you know, it's almost like did you see inside out too? I haven't seen it yet. I know. I haven't seen the first one. You were like the person who should be I know, I know. I'm so bad with seeing like this is my problem. I can't sit down. I feel like there was a moment that this door in my brain opened to like the floodgates of anxiety and fear and paranoia. And I was in practice and I made a mistake and we're undefeated and we're the number one team in the country. And I feel like in that moment, I just was like,

oh my God, like I can't make mistakes. I can't. And like everything changed. And I feel like that's when I started overthinking everything and like not being able to go to sleep at night and, you know, feeling my heart pound as I like biked the gym and then being in the gym and not being able to stop thinking about the possibility of fucking up somehow. So yeah, it was gradual. And then I didn't even have like the language to say performance anxiety. Yeah. I just gas at myself of like, oh my God, are you not cut out for this? Like what do you not have that the other players do? If your coach knows he won't play you. If your teammates know, they won't trust you. Like, wow. You like pull on this every sports quote. If you puke faint, if you don't puke faint or die,

keep going, right? So that was how it started. I'm trying to cut myself off because I just keep going. No, keep going. No, keep going. I'm here for it. I was locked in. You're like, is this girl okay? I'm like my body language is fully to you. Like, I'm just like, no, I love it. I had across my legs because my foot fell asleep. No, I'm, I'm literally, I'm locked. I'm here. Okay. Keep going. Tell me more. So, yeah, that's how it started. And then I, towards the end of that year, like went to my first therapy appointment. because I realized, like, I was just so unable to handle this by myself. And that freaked me out. I did not like my first therapy session. It was just the processing of being at a therapy session for someone like me who always viewed that as, you're crazy. And that's what I used to see in movies and stuff and hear about was really tough. Then that's, then I came back my sophomore year.

And of course, because I had done nothing to properly cope or work on anything, I was now in a deep and ugly depression. And then I started going to therapy consistently. Okay. And then that is where I learned how amazing it is and how I was thinking about mental health in the completely wrong way. And there was nothing wrong with me for feeling these problems. Of course, I was in like a really high pressure intense environment for a young kid and didn't have the tools and wasn't prepared. And it's totally fine to seek them the same way you go to a tutor for school or you go to spend more time in the gym for fitness. like I'm going to talk to someone about my emotions and how to regulate them and how to deal with stressful situations because no one's born with a brain that can handle like tough moments just like that.

Yeah. So as I started to get better and seek the help and I felt empowered again and I started looking at it differently. And I was also just like in disbelief at like how I hadn't understood mental health and specifically the mental health crisis facing student athletes. So that's what then, like, really lit a fire under me to share my story and advocate for these issues because I felt like no one should feel as, like, blindsided and alone as I did when this happened to me. So that's how my journey of advocacy started. Yeah. Dang. I love that. So what year, so your sophomore year, you started, like, fully going? And then, yeah, the spring of 2017 is when I gave my TEDx talk, the hidden opponent. Okay. Oh my gosh. How was that? It was awesome. It was awesome. It was, yeah, it's kind of wild, like, to think that I did that and look back. That, like, changed my whole entire life.

And I almost didn't even get it. I was, like, dropped from, like, the third round of the auditions. Oh, wow. And then I got called back at the last minute. And I think I kind of scared them into giving it to me. I was like, I don't know who, I have me, like, on my bike practicing what I was saying? Because when I didn't get it, I was like, oh, that's okay.

Like, you know, like, what did I think I want to give it? Yeah. And then when they called me back, I was like, Okay, come on. Like, there's something. So I was like, I don't know who you are talking to you. I don't know what they're going to talk about. I'm sure it's lovely.

We are in a crisis when it comes to student athlete mental health and no one is talking about this. And this is 2017. Like, no one was talking about it. And shout out Winnie. She was head of the committee that year. And she really pulled for me and believed in me. And it's the most viewed TEDx talk from USC. Oh, wow.

Well, congrats to you on that. Thank you. Thank you. And I say that. part not to be braggy, but because if you really believe in yourself, there will be people who doubt you or just think, you know, I remember, I think a feedback point I got was, oh, there's too many TED talks about mental health. And this 2017, like, there weren't nearly what there is now. Oh, yeah. But I just really believed in it and I knew it was needed and I fought for it. And it worked out.

And so I think if someone's listening, even if someone says no or they're not sure, like, don't let that be your final answer. Yeah. No, I love that. I love sharing those. Just numbers. It's important. And you worked hard for it, you know? And you are very deserving of that and all the things that I come from that because of your heart. And just like, you can see like how passionate you actually are. And if you weren't as passionate as she thought you were, like, you wouldn't have done all of these things. So it was very, very well deserved. And also you were, didn't you start your freshman year too? I did. Yeah. Well, yeah. I could imagine. and how freaking nerve-wracking that would be. Yeah. I mean, that was like my goal, right? And I started and played in every game freshman year. And I, I, that was also the irony.

Like when you get something you've really wanted it and worked really hard for and it's happening. And then you're there. And it's just, you have to maintain it. Like I used to say, you know, you work so hard to get to cloud nine. And then you have to like stay afloat on cloud nine, which is difficult. Yeah, for sure. When you were first running to go to theory.

was there like something that was like like a light bulb moment or like something that made you feel good or something you had never thought about, maybe like a different perspective? I think just the actual art of looking at the past and connecting dots to understand why you are the way you are in the present moment was like eye opening for me. I'd never thought about that before. I think I remember an early session where my therapist at the time said, to me, well, something like, why do you have to achieve? And I was like, what do you mean? I achieve. And she was like, why? And I was like, oh my God, I'd like never asked myself that. Like, what is the, and I'm, that's still something I am like unlocking today, right? It takes years. But I think it was just the actual, like, act of sitting there and talking about the way that things have impacted you and created the person you in the way that you think was so fascinating to me. I mean, I love it so much. I love deep conversations.

I saw this TikTok the other day. I sent to my best friend. And it was like, my best friend and I don't even gossip anymore. We just sit there and we assess why someone is the way that they are and talk about what they're projecting. I'm like, that's literally us. I'm like, if someone's like rude or mean or anything, I'm not like, oh my God. I'm like, wow. I wonder if they were loved at home. I wonder if like I, that's where I go. Yeah. I'm like, they're projecting. I really go there. Oh my gosh. That's so funny. It's hot now. It's summer. We're here. She's come full swing. And it is so important. I cannot stress this enough to stay hydrated. But it's definitely a little hard to do that when the best way to do that is drinking water. And water doesn't, you know, it just doesn't do anything for the taste. So that's why I love to incorporate element electrolyte packs into my routine and drinking them every day. I didn't know. I didn't. know this, but electrolyte deficiency or imbalance can cause headaches, cramps, fatigue, brain fog, and weakness, which none of us want. We don't want that. So, incorporate some element into your routine.

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Okay, so let's jump into like social media and whatnot because I'm sure body image and your achiever mentality, becoming a content creator and having these businesses, I'm sure that did that like come back, not to haunt you, but has that been something that you've like continued to kind of struggle with? Yes. Not as deeply. Yeah. But I think I noticed, you know, a few years ago, oh, now I'm having a goal of being the best advocate. for mental health and have the most relatable content and have a really successful ability to do this work, right? Like, I think, of course, like, it's there, you know, wanting all the

different aspects of my business and what I work on to be really successful. Yeah. Even though they're for this amazing purpose, I felt that come back through me of like, okay, you know, we're not going to, we're no longer posting Photoshopped photos and acting fake. So can we be so, so real? Like, can we make sure? Like, so, yes, like, the pendulum swings back. Yeah. But I would say I'm definitely, like, at a really great spot when it comes to awareness.

Like, I don't, I used to just, like, every day, like, post something and then just go check my DMs just to see, like, what are the reactions? And fortunately, I love my community. And I never, like, sometimes I'm like, should I go private? And, like, I don't want to. I don't have a desire to be like, I don't want to be that famous or well-known ever. I like not being known currently, except for my corner of the internet. So I feel like I've within that tried to be like, okay, like, we can just like create and we can post and hope to create impact and not actually check to see like what it is.

Yeah. Because that's crazy to me. Sometimes I'll be laying in bed at night. And then I'm like, oh, let me just click my DMs to see like, what? people have said today. And then I'm like, it's 1130 and you want to open up chats from people you've never met or spoken to and see what they're writing. Yeah. And I'm like, why would I do that? Yeah. You know? But then of course, it's like fun because I want to interact and majority of the time it's good. But also just that's like crazy. Our brain's not designed for that. Yeah. No, it's so true.

Finding that like that balance. I feel like the same way. I kind of like pendulum swung a little too. far. And like when we first started the podcast, I like would never read a comment. I wouldn't like look at anything. And so our listeners, we call them lemon drops. Our lemon drops would be like, would comment on our post and be like, I know Tay, you're never going to see this because you don't look at the comments, but I really like today's episode, like things like that. I'm like, okay, I actually need to start like implementing this. But finding that like healthy way of, you know, posting, I'll like leave it open for like a couple minutes and then like where I'm at now. Like, I forgot I posted this morning and I'm just remembering now, like, in this

conversation. Like, being at that place is something that I, like, really, like, love and strive for. But I feel like your, everything you just said, like, about your content makes sense. But it's also, like, I feel like your content's, like, very intentional. Like, I feel, like, I don't feel like you're, like pumping out content to, like, pump it out. Like, it feels very, like, intentional and, like, genuine. I'm definitely not. I'm definitely not. And I think sometimes I'll be tough on myself, like, oh, I see content creators who like have a post every single day and they have a plan. And then I remind myself like my content is based on my feeling or inspiration of the day or the week. And I just simply can't predict like this is what I'm going to feel the next seven days. Yeah. And I don't know.

I just like don't like to function. Technically I could delay everything a week and be like, you know, and then that way I could have a consistent flow. Like I have no idea what I'm posting this week, next week after the week after. No idea. It will come out because like I do. Yeah. But I appreciate that because it's also, yeah, that is, that's how it works. Yeah. It's a blessing and tough at times. Yeah. It's hard not to get in that cycle of like seeing people post. I'm like, I need to post more and like do stuff. I'm like, no, actually. I don't need to. I don't need to. I don't need to. Like that's, I was with at one point in time I was with the management and they were like telling me like I had to be posting like, you know, I had to be posting every day. I had to do like. like at least three stories a day. I had to be posting it. This is when I did like a YouTube channel. I had to do like YouTube and like I had to do all these things and they were like telling

me all of this stuff. And this was when I had just left the hospital and I was like, okay, for work, I'm going to start doing like social media stuff until I figure out like what I want to do. And they were like, oh, well, you're not getting like brand deals because of the, you're not doing enough work. You're not doing this. You're not doing that. And I realized that that just like wasn't true. Like it wasn't what I was doing. It actually was what they were doing. And I ended up leaving them and going to a different company and doing the same, if not less work. And they were able to get me a bunch of really great partnerships. So I had to learn, I feel like I learned it. And during that time, I was like, no, I actually don't like need to do this. Like it's okay. Like my followers are going to

come when they come. Like content and like engagement. It's going to come. It's going to be there. So not to like stress about it. And the quality is important. Like you want to feel good about it and not like you're being turned and burned. I've had that same experience and it's like just not good for your mental health and you have to be like, I can't like work, do this much stuff. Yeah. Now, it's hard. Props to people that can do it and are alive and thriving and well because I cannot. Yeah. I cannot do that. That's just too much for me. Okay. When did you start doing your hashtag real post? I started doing hashtag real post that same year in 2017. Oh, wow. I had a really big awakening. Like it was, it was a big 180 in my life. And that was really inspired by

trip where I was at the beach with my family and I got this like bikini photo that I, you know, slaved away for and dreamt of getting all trip. And, you know, it's like you want to post it just so you can enjoy your trip. Right. Like, I've got my photo out. And now I can enjoy my trip, which is just wild that we like don't have permission to enjoy the moment unless people have validated like our outfit, our body, our experience. So, you know, I was going to post that in my older brother and I had this deep conversation. And he basically was just like, what are you doing? And it was the first time I had to really sit and think, like, I'm looking at the photo. Like, I'm gearing up to post. My mom had just, you know, done this whole thing for me. And I took her away from her relaxation.

And I was under the not even looking at, forget the ocean. I'm under a towel looking with the good lighting. Like, what are the pictures, you know? And I just sat there kind of of the absurdity of the whole experience. And I was like, wow, like, I'm really, like, everything I just said, it was coming to me. And I posted it because that was my habit at the time. But then when I saw likes and comments, it, like, felt weird to me. It didn't hit me the same. It wasn't the same dopamine hit. It was like, wait, this feels icky and sticky. And literally the next day, I was sitting on a beach chair looking at my yaya and just thinking, like, I am Greek. Are you Greek?

Yes. Shut the off. Are you really? Yeah, yeah. My mom's side is Greek. I say I'm Greek. My dad doesn't have any form of nationality. I mean, I felt something too.

I love that for us. Oh, are you 50? Yeah. Me too. Oh my gosh. It's my mom. Yes, my mom. Oh my gosh.

I love this for us. I hate going. I literally was like, what? Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. And she, yeah. So I just was thinking about how precious she was.

And I was like, she's nowhere to be found on my feed because it's just all face tuned photos of me on a beach or. this fake, happy, perfect life. And so I posted a no filter photo of her and just use the hashtag real post. And that was kind of the start of me kind of reclaiming back my social media and being like, I see a tree and I like it, post. I see a quote and it moves me post. Like I don't care about the likes. You don't care about the comments. And my feed just changed. And it was funny. Like people were interested in that. And after the TEDx talk came out, there were more people coming to my page and it was just kind of the start of like a new version of me.

Yeah. It's funny because I feel like, I mean, I don't know this, but I were, if I were to guess, like, now when you do those real posts of like, you know, when you're sitting and like you have a role or like what our bodies just look like majority of the time when we're not sucking it in and doing all these poses, like, I bet that actually probably does better for your engagement than like a normal like cheesy photo of you would. Definitely. feel like if I would have kept going with this, like, idea of what I thought my life should be,

I would not be sitting here with you today. So it's like stepping into your authentic self and being who you are. Like, I care so much about that. Like, I want everyone to be themselves because whether it's about tied to a career or something down the line or not, your experience of life and like the connection you can have with people and with others is going to be so much greater because it's coming from a place of being real. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's so good.

I love this post. Oh, thanks. They make me feel good. Okay, so when did you, I want to talk about your nonprofit because I also have a nonprofit and we got to support our nonprofit girl. We do. Tell us more about your nonprofit. When did you start it?

Obviously, I know a little bit about the background, but you can tell our listeners about it. So my nonprofit is called The Hidden Opponent, and I started it right before the pandemic. And it was named after my TEDx talk. And it was really inspired by going to so many universities and campuses and meeting student athletes who also had a mental health story and would say to me, I love what you're doing and I want to be a part of it. Or I want to share my story.

Or I see you and this and how can I help and we make this bigger. And so the hidden opponent was this way to kind of cast a wide net and create. and create like a team of all these people who cared deeply about the same cause. Yeah. So, you know, as far as the nonprofit, I had no experience in it. I had no plan. You know, I always, when we're talking to people about THO, we really did a reverse model. People usually assemble their board.

They raise funds. They do all the stuff. We did it backwards. We started with community impact and engagement and then had to put all the other pieces into place. So I'm just so grateful for the community. It's so special. And now we do those things. Athletes all around the world are able to share their stories with us and know that they have a voice in a platform. We provide free resources to student athletes to help educate them on the mental health issues that they're experiencing. We just signed our partnership with Adidas, which was just so surreal and reassuring for us to have Adidas believe in our mission. And we have so many excited. ways that this is going to help us create further impact. So it's amazing. And then on a personal note, like, I'm feeling farther and farther removed from my student athlete days as my life goes

on. Yeah. So to have THO be able to keep going and now through the voices of the athletes of today and their stories just makes me so happy because it's still a problem. It's still an issue that needs attention. And like anybody, you know, I now am married and I don't play sports every day. And I'm not depressed right now. And there's other things that I'm interested in and that I want to do. So I'm like, every day, like, I'm so glad that that one day on my shag carpet, I googled how to found a nonprofit because now this incredible community exists where I can still be a part of that change from a founder standpoint, but also not feel the mental toll of it being like on me posting Instagrams and giving talks about it every day. Yeah, that's so good. What do you feel is like the biggest thing

that still needs to be done to better support athletes' mental health? I feel like most sports teams have an athletic trainer or someone there to tape ankles and to deal with physical injuries, which is so important. And the access to that on most sports teams is not even a question. It's there. That next level would be having that same ease and access to a mental health professional who can deal with the invisible injuries and the hidden opponents. So, you know, that's something that I think is major and it varies. You know, I was really grateful and privileged at USC to have the red carpet rolled out for me at that division one level of USC athletics. That's not the case for the majority of athletes at the

majority of schools. For sure. So I think those resources are what's one of the most pressing issues. Yeah. I relate to that in my field of nursing. That's something that I'm like so passionate about is like making an actual like counselor available to these people. Because like when I was working and like in the height of COVID, no one was like, hey, do you want to go talk to a therapist? It was just like once a month we'd get which we kind of already did anyways, but our, like, nurse manager who was, like, in charge of our floor, she would, like, pull us in her office and be like, how are things going?

And, like, you don't want to say you're, like, struggling in front of the person that's, like, literally employing you and could fire you at any moment. So, like, having just having that accessibility to someone that you can talk to safely is so important. And it's crazy how that just, like, from a college athlete to, like, in a hospital, like, how that just translates. And I think you can. can relate a lot to just the unique stigma for your group because you are supposed to be the

caretaker. Yeah. You know, but who takes care of the caretaker? Yeah. Well, it's so true. I feel like you have just, you've been living life in like the best way over the past year or so. I honestly feel like I've been following you and I didn't realize I wasn't following you until I actually followed you because you've just been like popping up on my TikTok for forever. But you've, I feel like you've gotten to do some pretty cool things over the past, like, year or so. Is there something that, like, stands out to you as, like, a pinch me moment? I would agree. I feel so much gratitude the way that this year started. And for anyone who doesn't, like, know me at all, I don't expect anyone to, you know, I've had some really cool opportunities this year. And I feel like, gosh, what, like,

stands out to me. I mean, we were able to do this crazy campaign with Price Line where my husband and I got to go to see Taylor Swift in Tokyo and then fly to the Super Bowl and attend that in Vegas. It was like this challenge to see if we could make the route the same way Taylor Swift was. Oh, my gosh. I mean, that like right there could be my entire year, like how insane that opportunity was. So, I mean, that definitely sticks out to me as like, my kids will be like, what? Like, You did Tokyo in the Super Bowl in three days. Yeah, I would say that. You know, and then also, like, on a on a real note, something I've been thinking about and I want to make a post about is like I could see people looking at my page and thinking, oh my gosh, like she did that. And then she went to the Golden Globes and she's been on Kelly Clarkson. Like they're looking at all these things. Like, oh, my God, that's that's so cool or whatever they're thinking. And then I'm sitting here on my same social media at night looking at so and so who's on a yacht in this ocean. and so and so through this influencer party with all these people that I feel like would never like me or we're not friends for some. And I sat there and I put my phone down and I was like,

this is crazy. I'm like, we all are like comparing our life to someone else's. And then that person is comparing theirs to someone else's. And like it's just this really sickening cycle of assuming that like there's always more to be obtained. And I've been trying to have the abundance mindset of like, I have everything that I need. And not even immaterial things or trips or not even like making myself feel good. Like, well, these are all the things that I did and this should make me feel happy.

Like I was grateful to have the recognition of Forbes 3 under 30. Of course, been a major goal for mine since the first time I ever opened that magazine and I saved it in my drawer all throughout high school. And I still cry. And I still think I need to be better in business.

And I still think I have many things I want to accomplish. like this idea that once you achieve one thing, you're never going to have problems or never going to struggle or compare. Like, that's not real life because we're human. And the crux of being human is like, we all suffer. So, you know, I'm currently working on how can I try to break the comparison pattern and have the abundance mindset and have the abundance mindset attached to no achievements and no

accomplishments and no external validations. But just like closing your eyes and breathing and feeling the wind or looking at a tree and like filling the underlying current of being. Yeah. That sounds really deep. But I do a lot of reading of Eckart Tollay and he talks about that. And it sounds really existential. But in the moments you tap into it, you're like, oh shit, this is real. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I love that. Dang, that was such a nice answer. I love that. Thanks. That was so sweet. Okay. Let's do our last little segment. It's called Lemon 7. Seven questions. You can rapid fire them. You can go into an explanation. Whatever you're feeling, you just run with your bad self. Okay. Number one is what movie or song title best describes your mental health today? I mean, I want to say peace by Taylor Swift

because I'm feeling peace, but I know the lyrics of the song aren't really peaceful. So that title, Okay, yes, the title. That works. That works. That's funny. Number two is how open are you with people in your life when struggling? Very open. I love that for you. I could have guessed that one. Three, if you could follow any three social media accounts, what would they be? They could be from like any platform. I would follow my husband, Max Brown. Shout out. I would follow Eckart Tolle, who I just mentioned. And I would follow something. sort of puppy account. I love that. I'm there for that one. Number four is what is your favorite form of self-care? My favorite form of self-care is, I want to say spending time with my people. Yeah. Whether it's my best friends, Max, family, spending time with them and like not having my phone be involved in that time. Yeah. I feel like that I'm very similar to you and that. Like, we'll have a really busy schedule and like our like close friends who like I don't need to like be on for we'll want to hang out and Taylor's like you really want to like have people over. I'm like it's like it's our

people like it's not really like it's not draining me at all if anything like after I'm like oh that was fun like I have like a little bit more energy yeah yeah but it's only with a certain amount of people for sure. Okay number five is what is the most misunderstood thing about you? I love this question. It's my favorite one to ask people. So kudos. I would say, God, I haven't answered it in a while. And you know how it changes often? Yeah. Do you know yours? You can go first and inspire me. Oh, what would might be? Yeah, I haven't, I guess I haven't answered this one since we started the podcast. What do you think about me? I'd be so terrified. When people post like, what are your assumptions about me? You would never see me putting that chat box up.

I know. I've never done that. Watch me do it later after you leave. I'm like, what do you think about me? No, I could not handle that. Like, it feels like it's just. like asking to receive negativity. Yeah. That's, I think the biggest thing I've seen, like, on the internet that has been misunderstood is, like, how normal of, like, a life I actually live. Like, we were just recently talking about this. We did a brand deal.

And actually, no, it wasn't a brand deal. It was just a story I was posting of a spider that was in my laundry basket. And, like, Taylor had to come and, like, kill it because the laundry basket had, like, holes in it and it just, it was a whole nightmare. But I had so many replies from people and they were like, oh, my gosh, you do your own laundry. Like, things like that. I'm like, what do you? I'm, yes, I do.

Like, I'm not a Kardashian. I mean, this is nothing bad to them. But I'm not like at that level of status where, you know, I doubt Taylor Swift is doing her own laundry. Like, you know, like, I don't have people working for me doing my laundry. So that would probably be the biggest thing. Like, my life is truly, obviously, you know, same thing. We, like, I get to go do all these amazing things. go to these amazing places, these trips, and all of that is definitely not normal per se.

But like my everyday life, I mean, when you literally showed up, I was sticking a note on the door for the freaking pest control guy to clean out our garage. Like, please, if you see this. So, like, that would be the biggest thing is like my life day to day is like, is pretty normal. And like, I like to keep the normalcy that way. I love that. That's a really good one. Oh, thanks. I still don't have one because I was listening, but I think I would say, I don't know. I feel like people think I'm super happy. And I definitely am a bubbly person and I'm happy. But I think people probably don't realize like how much my mood fluctuates and I'm not always happy. I'll have people all the time. Not all the time. But recently I had a friend be like, oh, I wouldn't have known that about you.

I thought X, Y, Z about your life. And I'm like, no, like, I'm like everyone else. Like, I've had shit that I've gone through. That's not fun and ideal, you know? Yeah. So, you know, I would say that. Okay. Number six is who's had the most positive impact on your mental health?

I would say my husband, Max, comes to mind at the moment. Yeah. He is literally just like the best. I saw this meme the other day that was like, thank you for loving me. me when I'm struggling, when I'm upset, when I'm mad, when I'm impatient, when I'm agitated. And like, I just feel like he is the best. I literally, I call him my, he's my battery. And whenever we hug, I'm like charging. Oh my gosh. Stop. I just got that little visual of my head. Literally. He'll be like, do you need a charge? I'm like, yes. Oh my gosh. Stop. That's so cute.

Wait, I'm obsessed with that. Last one is if you can go back to one moment in your life, what moment would that be and what would you say to yourself? So many ways I could take it. Funny, deep, real. I think I would probably go back to my wedding day. And because I want to live it all over again. And I would probably say to myself, I don't know, like, because I did really enjoy it and I had a lovely day. But I would just want to live it over again. So I think I'd go back and I'd say, this is me coming. to you from the squeeze, giving you one more chance to live this day. So enjoy it, bitch, because you're not getting another one. I love it. That's so good. And it's so real. And if you're listening to this and you're going to get married, this is us reiterating that to you. Because I second that one. I second that one. I was ready. I mean, we had like a wedding

weekend. So we had two days of events before our wedding. And then one day after. And actually, the second day, I had a full on like anxiety attack because everyone's like, it's going to go so quick. You're going to like, you're going to blink. It's going to be over. And I was like, I don't want it to be over. Like I literally like had a whole like panic attack and our pastor had to like call me down because I was unwell. But all that to say, wedding day was great. And then our night after, I was like, okay, I've lived this and I'm good. I'm good. I don't need to see any more people. I'm ready to go home. So I feel like I got to like fully soak it in. So if you're listening to this and you're getting married, soak it in. Coming to you from the

squeeze. Yeah, don't squeeze it out. Yeah. So get it. She's potty. She's potty. Thank you so much for joining me. This is so fun.

We're going to link your social media. We're going to link her nonprofit. And then also, we didn't really talk about this, but your podcast, real pod, we're going to link it down below. You may see a familiar face on there at some point. I'm not going to say who it is and I'm not going to point at who it is. But there may be someone on there. So go follow her there.

And thanks for coming. Thanks for having me. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.