The Squeeze - Zac Clark: The Miracle of Recovery Never Gets Old

Episode Date: May 17, 2023

TW: addiction, overdose, and body dysmorphia   When conceptualizing The Squeeze, your hosts knew it was going to be people like Zac who make it special. Today, they are joined by dream guest Zac Clark, founder and CEO of Release Recovery, a full-service substance use disorder and mental health organization that offers transitional living, interventions, case management, and other essential family and recovery support services. This episode is very personal, as Zac shares his history with addiction, rehab, and recovery, and Tay shares more about her family’s experience with addiction. Zac discusses his time in the hospital after being diagnosed with a brain tumor, and how that inevitably furthered his addiction. The three discuss the importance of boundaries, advocating for men’s mental health, and Narcan. Zac also touches on the incredible work Release Recovery and the Release Recovery Foundation are doing to offer support to those struggling and break the stigma around addiction and mental health.  This episode is dedicated to Chris and anyone out there suffering from addiction, or loving someone suffering from addiction. Help is out there. Please find resources below:  https://findtreatment.gov/ https://releaserecovery.com/  https://www.releaserecoveryfoundation.org/  https://www.lemonsbytay.com/resources  You can follow Zac and his work on Instagram, @zwclark, @releaserecovery and @releaserecoveryfoundation To email us your questions or share your story, you can reach out to [e-mail].  Be sure to rate, review, and follow the podcast so you don't miss an episode! Plus, follow us on Instagram, @thesqueeze and personally @taylautner and @taylorlautner. To learn more from The Lemons Foundation, follow @lemonsbytay on Instagram and visit lemonsbytay.com  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Auto-hue with Sunny Cars feels as if the children Not me's Beasel stramble Sandvorda Actisvercere Verdwine Vacantcy can chaotic

But who'sorgalose An Auto-Huert Says No No Stress No eigener Noxed Novert to cost Always Follettable

So foothr Sondergare Go to your Reisadviceor Orsoniccars. combe Mom deserves the best And there's no better

place to shop for Mother's Day then Whole Foods Market. They're your destination for unbeatable savings. From premium gifts to show-stopping flowers and irresistible desserts, start by saving 33% with Prime on all body care and candles. Then get a 15-stem bunch of tulips for just $9.99 each with Prime. Round out Mom's menu with festive rosé, irresistible berry chantilly cake, and more special treats.

Come celebrate Mother's Day at Whole Foods Market. When life gives you lemons, what do you do with them? over here at the squeeze, we talk about it. So everyone, and welcome to the squeeze. I am Taylor Lautner, joined by my wife, Tay Lautner, and our lovely puppy Remy, who's on the floor, biting the carpet for no reason. Remmer.

I think she's scratching herself. Oh, sorry. She was nibbling on her foot. Oh, you scratching yourself? We all itch. It's okay. I'm sorry for calling you out. That was embarrassing.

How you doing? Happy Wednesday. I forget what are you been doing. What are we doing? Hey, guys, this is the squeeze. Happy Wednesday. We're here. And this episode is one of my favorites.

So far, we have Zach Clark on. And I have been wanting to have him on the squeeze. Honestly, since before we even launched, he was one of the first people on my list that I wanted to have just because... It's true. She's not lying. Of all the work that he's done and is doing and his story is so inspiring. and he's just a solid dude that has a huge heart and has really overcome a lot and is helping people

every day with recovery and it's just it's just awesome everything that he's done and continues to do yeah this story is amazing where he's come from what he's gone through and what he's doing today for the world just affecting so many people's lives and we were so thankful to have him join us and talk about his journey and what he's doing now. And I mean, I'll be honest, we, we knew him in who he was from a little show called The Bachelor or The Bachelorette, but we never had any intention of, we were like, we really wanted to talk to this guy, but, and I'm a diehard Bachelor fan for those of you that don't know. But we didn't want to talk to him about the Bachelors. bachelor, bachelor at all, because this guy's life is just like so much bigger than that.

Yeah. It's awesome that that's how we found out about him and who he is and what he does outside of that show. Yeah. But, I mean, that show does not define him in any way. Yeah. And he's just so much bigger than that. And yeah, it was just so thankful to talk and have him here in our house and get to know him a

little bit and he truly is like te said a stand-up guy and learned a lot from him and um you should definitely check out release recovery yeah if you yourself or somebody you know or love you know is battling addiction in any way i would definitely recommend um checking out release recovery and everything zach is doing yeah and also we we definitely got personal you know addiction is a big part of my mental health upbringing. So it was just really cool, you know, to get to talk to him and get the perspective from. Yeah.

Someone who was an addict and obviously is sober now and is great. But, you know, just to like hear the thought process or just advice because it's so. A linear, you know. There's no one way that is the way for recovery. It's totally different. Yeah. So it was just really, it was just a really personal time that I truly really enjoyed. Likewise. Yeah. Hope you guys too. Yeah. Hope you guys too. What did I just say? Hope you guys do too. I'll learn English next. Welcome to the squeeze sack. Thank you so much for coming.

Thank you guys. I was honored when you reached out and I just love what you guys are doing. So we, especially me, but both of us, really want to thank you for coming because when when I started thinking of this, you're actually one of the people that came to mind to have on just because of your story and everything that you are doing. Addiction is a big part of my upbringing and it has heavily affected my family. And so I just love what you're doing and I'm so passionate about it. It's true. Don't tell me that. I'll put you to work.

Hey, give it to me. I'm so down. But I just want to say for people that are listening and I'm just, are probably like, are we going to talk about The Bachelorette? Your story and what you're doing is so much bigger than that. I don't even want to waste our time and people's time because you are just doing so much bigger and better things than that. I mean, I will say just on that, like,

I acknowledge that a lot of people know me from The Bachelorette, and I'm very grateful for that. And I met a lot of amazing people that worked on the show and we're on the show. And there's a lot of positive to come away from that. So, you know, I'll just, I'll say that for sure. Yeah. I love that. Well, we kind of know a bit about your story, but I would love for you to share with our listeners kind of the.

Like where the journey began. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was born on a night. No, I mean, look, I grew up in a very welcoming, loving home.

I'm one of five kids. My parents are still married today. like there was no reason for me to end up like a heroin addict to end up, you know, smoking crack. Like there was no reason, right? On, on paper. Yeah. Yeah, I was going to ask, does addiction run in your family? And I'm sorry, sidebar.

No, sidebar is cool. No. I mean, like, I'm sure, yeah, like moms, moms, you know, like there's always like. I definitely remember some thanksgivings growing up. I'm like, what's that brown stuff? And then, you know, like. So, but I think I was the first one. to really like get taken to my niece in this kind of generation.

You know, my, my sister, Catherine, has openly struggled with some of her mental health and eating disorder. And I think my mom would tell you that she's a pretty anxious person. So there's some stuff there for sure. Like there are in every family. But for me, I definitely, I caught it. Yeah. No, but like I was telling you guys before we started rolling here, like, yeah, I grew up in

South Jersey, like really, really awesome upbringing. and I think I felt normal like growing up. Like I didn't feel like I had any like the world was like against me or anything like that. But when I started drinking, I guess it was like, you know, freshman year or whatever it was. I knew that I loved it. You know, like I knew that I loved it. And I knew that it like my mind runs so fast and so hot. It was the first thing to kind of quiet it down.

And so I look back on that and. you know, know that I have this thing, right? Like I remember that first drink. And so from there it was kind of like I had your typical kind of like high school experience or what I thought was typical, right, like drinking in the woods and smoking pot. And then I went off to college and I played baseball in college. And, you know, a lot of that, those four years was fueled by, you know, work hard, play hard. Right.

Because that's kind of how like I was brought up. And while I don't think there's, you know, addiction or substance abuse, in my family per se. Like, we definitely, like, I definitely party with my parents. We definitely had fun, you know. So that kind of opened the door for me to turn it up a little bit. And then I would say that the real pivotal moment for me. So I graduated college.

And, you know, at this time, I'm probably, like, drinking three, four nights a week, definitely, like having some blackouts, but not really sure what a blackout is because I thought everyone just forgot, like from 11 o'clock on that that was like I thought that was normal right like no one ever said Zach you're drinking too much and then uh I kind of like I was destined to live this kind of like the suburban life right I had a girlfriend that was going to move home with me to South Jersey where like my family and and everyone lived and what happened was uh I ended up getting diagnosed with brain tumor and so I'm 24 years old geez I'm sitting in the hospital like I just had this thing

cut out of my head. And it's the first time in my life, I realize at a moment when I'm supposed to be pretty happy that I'm alive, pretty thrilled that I'm having, like, this new lease on life, if you will. Yeah. I was kind of sad. Yeah. And I miss drinking. Like the drinking had been taken away from me. Oh, wow. And there was so much, I don't know if you guys have ever spent time in the hospital, but I'm in there for 20 days or whatever it is. And there's family. There's friends are bringing me soft pretzels or watching the Phillies games like we're just kicking it you know and and everyone's telling me how much of a hero I am and it just didn't hit like it wasn't hitting like I was dead on the inside and on top of that the nurse was putting you know these pain killers in

my arm that were making me feel really good yeah and so getting out of the hospital and having that lived experience my best thought was to one like accelerate my life so I end up proposing to my girlfriend and getting married and doing the whole thing that I thought I was supposed to do. Yeah. And also going out and finding the drugs that were making me feel so good, you know, when I went through the surgery. So it was this perfect storm of emotion and at the center and the core of it all was, I think, this anxiousness about life.

And then knowing that the one thing that made me feel better was the drugs and the alcohol. Yeah. So that was a jumping off point. And then it gets pretty gnarly. I end up getting married. And she was a beautiful woman. And I loved her very much. But I wasn't ready for it.

I'm 25 years old. And I'm going on my honeymoon. And I kind of detox my stuff. I mean, it was just, it was insanity. And what ended up happening is I in 2000. So got married in June of 2009. And then 2010, I ended up in rehab for the first time. My parents or my mom and wife at the time,

kind of said, Zach, like, the party's over. You know, like, this is, this is too much. This has gone too far. And I went 30 days, thought I was cured, and was high within five days of getting out of there. Oh, wow. And to your point, I don't, you know, I don't know much about your story, but I thank God every day for my ex-wife because she was a loving family member and my parents

stayed by me and the people that really meant the most to me hung in there with me. The best way that my wife knew to hang in there with me was to say, I can't support this anymore. So she set a boundary and she left, which was really hard. And then that kind of set me out on this run for the next eight months that ended, you know, in the streets shooting heroin, smoking crack, just really behaving like an asshole. And I think about that a lot in my work today and in my life today because so much of when I was bringing up and and what I thought, you know, drug addiction looked like was, was not what I was living. Yeah. There was a stigma around then.

Here I am like this, you know, middle upper class, like white kid from South Jersey. Yeah. On the streets, hustling. And so it was, it was crazy. Yeah. And thankfully, at the end of that run, I ended up in rehab again for the second time. And I stayed for four and a half months. And from there, I, like, I disdeme.

decided to move to New York City and I haven't looked back. So that was 11 and a half years ago. And it was a, it was a wild run. I learned so much. And I still, to this day, people say, you know, what's your greatest asset? I said my experience, like being out there and the survival. Yeah. Survival. Like each day was just such a grind. Yeah. So crazy though. That second rehab place you went to that you were there for four and a half months. Is that the place that you now today are on the board of. Yes.

Okay. Yeah. Karen treatment centers in Pennsylvania. It's crazy. The miracle recovery never gets old. Whether it's substance use or mental health or whatever it is, the miracles never get old. So this past weekend, I was actually in Florida with my family and, you know, we've been able to do some pretty cool philanthropic work for Karen. And so they named their new dining hall in the center down there, the Clark family dining room.

So we're sitting at, I know, like, so we're sitting there at this thing. And we're thinking about 11 and a half years ago when I was completely out of my mind. And here I am like on the board. Yeah. It's just and it's just a testament to hard work. Yeah. You know, never giving up. And I'm just, I'm grateful.

And then it took a lot of people. So something as you guys know that has been a huge part of my mental health journey, Taylor's mental health journey journeys as individuals. and as a couple has been therapy. Amen. And that is why I am so excited to share our next sponsor with you guys, which is cerebral. Cerebral is here to help you achieve your mental wellness goals with professional therapy and medication management support 100% online. You will experience the all new cerebral way, an innovative approach to mental wellness designed around you.

You'll get a personalized treatment plan from a therapist, prescriber, or both in a safe and judgment-free space. I love that cerebral is 100% online because that means you have no excuse. You have to go. There's no, oh, I don't have time to go drive. It's too long of a drive. No, you can do it on your lunch break. You can do it before work, after work. And it's honestly just, it's convenient.

Yeah. It's convenient and they have great therapists. Yeah. And it'll just keep you accountable too. So we highly, highly encourage that you guys check out cerebral because therapy is just done wonders for us. And we know it'll do the same for you. To get started on your path towards better mental health, cerebral is giving our listeners 15% off their first month of online therapy, medication, or both. Get started at cerebral.com slash podcasts and use code the squeeze to make 2024 your best year yet.

That's Cerebral C-E-R-E-B-R-A-L.com slash podcast and use code the squeeze. Offer is only valid on monthly plans. Other exclusions may apply. See C-S-C-C-C-C-E-C-C-E-Sight for details. Get going on that therapy. What was it that second time around? Was it just simply getting you in that door? Or what had changed or shifted in your mindset?

or like what what did it take that second time where you got to the place where you were like it's it's time right now is the time i was ready i was ready like i knew i either had to surrender and put what i thought was my best thinking aside or or i was actually going to die yeah i knew that but what i know now 11 and a half years and working in behavioral health care sometimes even that's not enough. Yeah. And so when I look at my treatment experience for people that are listening that are thinking about maybe I have a problem, maybe I should talk something, whatever it is, I gave myself time.

You know, like four and a half months was not the typical length of stay. Like I extended and I extended and I extended. I really took my time. Yeah. I surrounded myself with some really good people. I got the clinical help that I needed. And then I took a risk and I moved to New York City knowing that. nothing and knowing no one, but understanding that I really needed to start a new life of purpose.

And so it was kind of, when I look back on it, it was the perfect situation for me. And that's not to say you can't stop drinking or improve your mental health by going to outpatient therapy or just changing little things in your life. I just is what I needed. Yeah. You know, I needed to detox. I need to get the drugs out of my body. I needed to understand what it felt like to be sad or up.

set and actually deal with those feelings rather than, you know, stick a needle in my arm or whatever it was. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's something that's so like wild about recovery is. I mean, very similarly to mental health, there isn't like, uh, these are the, this is what you do, you know, like it's, it can vary so much. Like, so.

We know some people that literally just like quit drinking, smoking, everything, cold turkey. Just one day was like, I'm done. Never drank again, never smoked again. We're like, you didn't get help or do anything. And they're like, no, and then there's also the other end of people that have been in and out, in and out. Yeah. So it's just wild that there's. Yeah. So you guys have some people in your life that are in recovery and you're like familiar, like you get it a little bit. Yeah. I think we know both. But yeah, I mean, yeah, we know people that have been in and out and, you know, relapsed and eventually conquered it or whatever. And we also know people who like had severe. your problems, but one day was like, I'm done. I'm just going to be done. And like, they didn't go anywhere, see anyone. They just said, today is the day. And they just quit. I'm like, that seems,

I mean, that's kudos. Yeah. I think one of the largest impacts for me is, and he's a very, like, large part of my like mental health story and why I am so passionate about mental health is my cousin Chris he I don't I'm an only child so I he was kind of like a sibling to me is my closest cousin my cousins are like 10 years apart on both sides of me so he was like the closest one older so your brother Chris yeah very very close with him growing up I was probably probably would say like I was very young I mean yeah he definitely started using drugs I had no clue obviously I was so young but I'd say I was probably eight or nine when he had overdosed from heroin and his friends had thrown water on him because I thought he passed out but it ended up going into his lungs and so then he was in ICU for a few weeks and for some reason my parents took me as an eight year old to go see my cousin with all the tubes, all of all the things, which was funny because I ended up being a nurse and saying that on a regular basis. But I went and saw him and he couldn't speak because he was

intubated, but he was kind of awake. And we had gone in there. And my aunt was like, Chris, like your aunt and uncle and cousin are here. And he had signed my name to me. It was just laying in there and just signed it. And later on when I graduated high school, Actually, I actually think it was he was in jail later on down the line. He had gotten arrested. It was in jail. He wrote me a letter saying, talking about that moment. And he said that he felt so ashamed and so sorry that I had to see him like that.

And when I left the hospital, so that's what he was thinking. I had no clue. I was just like, why is he like this? How did he get here? And then my mom kind of explained to me. as you can to an eight-year-old, what happened? And I was just kind of like, well, why did he do that? Like, why didn't he stop?

Like, why did it get there? Like, trying to understand what addiction is as an eight-year-old. But on our drive home, my throat was, like, hurting so bad. And it was like, I felt like I was having sympathy pains because he had the tube down his throat. And it was, like, the first time I think I ever, like, felt sadness, like, real sadness. And I feel like that slightly scarred me And I've never done drugs, I think, because of his experience.

But he's been in and out of everything. Transitional homes. He went away to this rehab ranch that was great. And he's just, it's been a very big roller coaster. So interesting because I'm sorry to hear that. You should be proud of yourself for hanging in there with him. That's cool. But it's so interesting because that feeling that he wrote to you in that note,

like the guilt and the shame. I mean, that keeps people. sick, you know, whether it's, you know, struggling with mental health and not wanting to reach out because you don't want to be a burden on someone else. But like that's the pain in the ass about all this. Yeah. Is that when we're in our darkest moments, the last thing I want to do is reach out to someone and tell them I'm struggling because then I feel like I'm burdening them.

Yeah. And that's why when I talk to families about the substance, like you just got it, you got to keep showing up and you got to keep reinforcing that. You love them because inherently we're going to. going to feel a lot of guilt and shame about the way that we behaved. And it's hard to break through that. Yeah. Without a really supportive community around you.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, even still to this day, he'll, I'll hear from him randomly when he has a cell phone and my aunt. And so she's a freaking saint, man. I mean, he is, he is one of the kindest souls to walk this. Are so giving, so loving. So we all are.

So I know. He's just, it's. It's Chris. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's kind of like where we're all at now is just like just loving him. And I know my aunt's kind of watches and she's probably going to be crying watching this.

But I mean, it's true. We've, we're just saying, hey. I'm giving your aunt a hug if you're watching right now. But it's so true. Like we've just gotten to the point where we're like, hey, like we love you. Like when you're ready, like, holler at us and we'll like. Yeah. We'll help you.

Yeah. what I guess this kind of leads into it advice for both parties and that advice for someone maybe that is seeking sobriety and also advice or a spouse or a loved one that doesn't know the right thing. Yeah. Yeah. How to approach them or what to do. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I think to your point, like for the family, there's no playbook. Yeah. If I knew, if I had all the answers, I wouldn't be here. I'd be flying around on my private jet because I'd sold the answer to, you know, somewhat. You know, like I, and that's the tough part of the work I do. For me, whenever I talk to someone who's struggling with substance abuse, I try to hear them. You know, I really try to listen and understand why they're behaving the way that they're behaving.

And then explain to them that there's an easier way to live. And a lot of my work is about sharing my own personal experience, right? And being that light for them when they need it. ultimately they're going to have to surrender and be willing to really look at themselves and have a desire to make change. And so for that person, I would just say hang in there, you know, go easy on yourself, but also understand that help is available. And you most certainly do not have to do it alone.

There's millions of people that struggle with substance use disorder. It's a real thing. It's a real disease. It's unfortunately killing more and more people every day. So you're definitely not alone. And then for the family member, it's all about taking care of yourself first. You know, you're going to be of no use to your loved one if you're not taking care of yourself. It's really interesting.

The first time I was in treatment, they did this exercise where I was the patient and they basically asked me to write all my symptoms on the whiteboard or the chalkboard or whatever. So I was like, sleepless nights, anxious, stomach problems. you know, overdrink, all the things that I was experiencing in my active addiction. And then I left the room. They flipped it over and they asked my parents and wife to do the same thing. And they wrote, anxious, depressed, stomach issues, over drinking. And then they brought me back in.

And they, you know, they brought the two groups together. And the symptoms were the same. So when one person is struggling in the family or in the system, the entire family gets sick. And that's why it's so important when I work with families to say, you know, are you doing your own therapy? Are you taking care of yourself? Yeah. Do you know what a boundary is and do you know how to set a boundary? A boundary is not don't drink or I can't talk to you.

It's, hey, I just want to let you know, for me, this is not healthy. So I can't continue to X, Y, Z, you know, support your drinking or support your drug use. Yeah. Because the old, like, in your face, confrontation stuff, I don't really think works. Yeah. Yeah. But we've talked about this with, I can't even think of it off top of my head, but like several different scenarios over the years,

that finding that balance of the boundaries and like, when do you decide it's time to like cut it off until like you see some sort of movement? But of course that's the hardest thing in the world to do if you love somebody and care. about them, but sometimes is that the best thing to do? Like, you know, we've like had that discussion before with circumstances and I know, you know, people that we know have, you know, struggle with that same thing. It's like. And I think the answer.

I think there's a way to do both. You can love someone, but also set boundaries that are going to protect you, right? Like, and do it in a healthy way so that they, they still feel the love. I can guarantee you that if you're telling you. someone who's in active addiction or struggling with their mental health, they hear you. They might not display that back to you and their actions. They might yell at you and scream at you and blame you for whatever it is. But that's just, you know, their shit coming out sideways. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think a lot of it is really an education, like understanding what

what a boundary really is. Yeah. And being able to do that for yourself and not to save the other person. Mm-hmm. I think that's like the hardest thing for. that's been like growing up and seeing my family like knowing that it's nothing you can do and then it's out of your control. It's like one of the hardest things I feel like to grasp. I mean even like addiction aside, even mental health, you know, like when one of us, like when I went through like a really bad depression when I worked as a COVID nurse,

got really bad PTSD depression from it, ended up leaving. And when I kind of started my like healing journey that I've, will forever be on now. Taylor, he come to me and be like, are you okay? I'm like, yeah, I'm fine. He's like, but like, are you mad at me? Like, did I do something? I'm like, no, I just, I don't feel like, at the time I didn't know I was depressed, but I was. And we talked about all the time how it's so, it could be so hard even just as a spouse, if your spouse is dealing with their mental health, like knowing that there's nothing like I can do to make Taylor feel better or vice versa, it can be so, so challenging. Yeah. And so hard.

That took a while for me to grasp. I don't even know if I've still completely grasped it. I mean, sometimes when she sat or whatever, I just want to, like, shake the happy into her. Yeah. But then it starts to affect you, right? That's all about attachment. Yeah. Right?

And it's one of the hardest things we as humans learn how to do because if you see someone you love struggling. Yeah. All you want to do is make them smile and help them. And sometimes the best thing to do is to give them the space to kind of to feel, to feel, to feel crappy. Yeah. And just let them know, like, I understand you're having a hard time.

I want you to know that I love you and I'm here for you. Yeah. But I'm going to step back and if you do need me, I'm here. Yeah. I'm going to give you your space right now. Yeah. Because sometimes when we're anxious, depressed, feeling like crap, we actually don't.

We want to wallow in it. We want to sit in it. We want to feel it. And that's okay, too, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's important to feel those. Yeah.

Feel those things too. You guys are the best. Look, it looks at you too. Doing the, work. Love it. Oh my gosh. Okay.

I want to touch on men's mental health. You know, kudos to you guys for doing this. I'm like, this is crazy. Like a couple sitting here, like being so open. I mean, like, you don't see this shit today. So it's good. You're going to help a lot of people. Thank you.

That's, that's the goal. Goals to help for sure. You know what? If it's one person, that's exactly what I say. If it's one person, then we did our job. Men's mental health is very important to me. My cousin, I've had other males. family members struggle with addiction. I lost a friend to suicide who was also a male.

I'm a male. You are also a male. Mental health is, I almost feel like more so impacted men in my life more than women, which I feel like a lot of people. I mean, according to statistics, that would make sense. Right? It isn't like, we've looked up the statistics. Isn't like the percentage of more men die of suicide than women. I mean, it's like, it's off the charts. Yeah, but you wouldn't think that because women are just the ones talking about mental health, which we're changing today. I know you have a similar view of that. What advice or what, I guess what has helped you kind of like just be more comfortable

with like being vulnerable or being open? So one of the things that I learned in my recovery journey is I can't afford. to be anything other than honest. And my, like, there's only one story for me, and that's, that's the truth. Yeah. Yeah. And so if I really choose to lean into it and be honest and open about that,

everything tends to, to work out. Yeah. As a man growing up with a dad who was, throw strikes, son, like, work harder, give me 20 push up, you know, like, I was taught to just suck it up. You know, I was taught to, and a lot of that probably, drive some of my success today. And I'm grateful for some of that.

But on the flip side of that, I also acknowledge that if I am not being vulnerable and letting people know where I'm at and doing that with other men, then I'm not going to feel great. And the response that I've gotten and the connections that I've made by being open and being vulnerable

tell me all I need to know, that people are struggling, that they are looking for connection, that they don't know how to ask for help. Yeah. And so if we can destigmatize, you know, what it means to be a man when it comes to mental health,

we're going to be doing ourselves all a favor. I mean, I can say this. Like I was in a little bit of a jackpot the last couple months. And last week that I was talking to you guys, about the trip to Florida and I decided to like delete the social media for a week and kind of tell the office that I was going to take a break because I needed that reset. And that's something that I would have been really embarrassed to share to a buddy, let alone

on a podcast with with both of you. But men have struggles just like just like women to. You talk about I mean just even something like erectile dysfunction or like There's like the gross shit that no one wants to talk about. You know, like if we're not having those conversations, then we're never going to heal. Yeah. And it's like, so I don't know if I answered your question,

but it's so important. And I've found the more that I talk about it, the more men begin to come forward. I know that for me, like my audience, my nature of being on the petred is largely women. Yeah. But what happens is women will reach out and say, would you talk to my, you know,

Yeah, it makes sense. And so that's a gateway to to help on some guys, then I'm down for that too. Yeah. And it doesn't mean I'm not tough. It doesn't mean that I'm not going to fight or have grit or hustle or like all the things

that define like being a man in our country. But at the same time, like the real hard thing to do is to ask for help. Yeah. Yeah. I always say if anything, like men being vulnerable and like sharing what they're feeling or their thoughts and whatever

it may be is more manly than like putting it down like I feel like suppressing it and not addressing it is oh that kind of rhymed um is more like childish and like a real like adult man I feel like that is like where we're where we're headed which is nice obviously I was doing a little bit of my like research on you know and I saw you know some of your stuff tail around the body dysmorphia stuff and I was like that's some that's badass that he over opened his mouth and shared some of that stuff. And I'm sure you've had people, you know, inspired by that. You inspired me.

So you talk about helping one person, you, you, you help me. And like, I struggle with that shit. Like, you know, I look in the mirror sometimes. Like, what am I even doing? I've worked out every day for the last 10 years and I still look like this, you know, like whatever the mind is telling me. Yeah. I don't know.

I mean, was that a powerful experience for you? Or did that give you the courage to kind of keep doing some of that stuff? Yeah, for sure, for sure. Because, yeah, that was, I mean, in one of our first episodes of this. And the reaction to that I was not expecting and seeing a lot of... A lot of guys. A lot of men reached out. Yeah.

Which also, both of our audience is female. This podcast is mainly female. So we were really happy to see that. Yeah. Seeing guys reach out and just say that they can relate and how... they can't believe that somebody like me is going through the same thing that they are. I'm like, dude, you have no idea. Yeah, it was really powerful.

And it definitely, like, was the ultimate stamp of approval that this is what, like, we are supposed to be doing. Yeah. Because, yeah, it's just, it's, it's been awesome. And it's only been two months, but. Yeah. But, yeah, it was, it was really touching. and just made me feel so happy that we're doing this and we'll continue to share and be open and honest and help whoever we can. I can tell you this, 11 and a half years.

So when I got the treatment, I was, I think what America would classify as overweight. I was 250-something pounds, right? And so my best thinking being there for four and a half months was to go out on the hill in front of the treatment center every morning and just rubbed. And like I was I was going to sweat that weight off as quick as I could. And so they turned around and they put me in a body image group. And so I walked into this body image group at the rehab center. Yeah. And there were six other dudes in there, you know.

And I'm looking around and I'm saying these guys have body image issues. Yeah. And this is 11, you know, this is when it was even less likely that men would be talking about it. And so that for me opened my eyes because I was like, this dude's a total stud. Yeah. Yeah. And then what do I have, you know? Yeah.

I know. It's crazy. The power that the mind can have over you. Like, don't even get me started. It's nuts. Oh my gosh. Was it you that said recovery isn't about what you lose? It's what you gain.

Yeah. I love that. Look at my life. Like, that's all I need to do. Like, look at what I've received over the past 11 and a half years and the way that I'm able to show up. And it's not about the cash and prizes. It's about. the peace of mind and the relationships and just actually looking in the mirror and saying,

I kind of like this dude. That's the next level shit. I'm here for. Yeah. And it's like when you were talking about your cousin or your brother, Chris, the greatest guy, right? Like the greatest guy. And I think that's what people would have said about me, like great guy. Yeah.

But huge heart. Love, drugs. Yeah. Some demons inside. Yeah. Can you tell our listeners what release recovery is? I can. When I got out of treatment, I was working in the business world.

And I knew, much like I think the experience you are both having right now in this moment with this podcast and wanting to help people and connect with people, I knew that I loved recovery. And so I found a job. I found a job working in recovery early on in my sobriety and did that for five years and worked my way up. And then back in 2017, late 16, early 17, started release recovery, which is a, what I classify as a full service, substance abuse and behavioral health care organization. So we have throughout New York City and then Westchester County, which is north of New York City, we have 60 really kind of like highly structured high end sober living bed. So when people come out of treatment, they come back to us for three to six months and we help launch them back into the world. So everything from your, you know, 20-year-old who fed out of college and, you know, wants to come back to New York City to start a life to, you know, the 45-year-old, you know,

mother of three whose husband isn't ready for her to be home and kind of like everything in between. So we do gender-specific. And it's amazing. We've built an amazing organization. We have about, I don't know, 60-something employees now. And we also do a lot of case management and intervention work. And really, we can work with families no matter what point in the process. they're in.

Yeah. It's just been, it's been an amazing, amazing journey. And it's really just getting started. I mean, we're, I'm out here in California,

visiting some other programs and connecting. And so it's really cool. And then we also have, right before COVID popped off, we started a nonprofit, the Relief Recovery Foundation, which we weren't the brightest in our names, because people get them confused a lot.

But the nonprofit essentially raises, money to support people to get treatment who otherwise couldn't afford it. And none of the money goes towards the Ford profit. We actually work with other programs to scholarship these folks. But that's really what's filling my cup today is giving people the opportunity to get really good treatment who needed that truly, you know, couldn't just couldn't afford it. Yeah. And so we're super pumped.

I mean, there's a lot going on. It's a lot. And that's why it's important for me to continue to take care of myself because if I I get lost in my work and, you know, the helpers aren't getting help, then yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It all goes to shit. So.

Yeah. Wow. That's awesome. Yeah. It's been cool. Yeah. I love business and I love people and I love helping people. So it all, like for me, it all works.

Yeah. Companies like release recovery, I feel like are so important because so many times people will like come out of rehab or it's just like there's not much help after. I feel like. Like it's hard to. Like you go away. Yeah. You're like in this intense thing for 30 days or however long.

Yeah. And then all of a sudden you're thrown right back into the environment that you were in before. Yeah. And it's like I just feel like it doesn't set you up right. Yeah. Well, I mean, I've seen Chris multiple times go and rehab come out. And then he literally will go live with the same roommates that are still using. And so that's why going to places like release recovery are so helpful for people that are, you know, in situations.

like Chris and like that. Well, I'm like you guys with the inspiration for this podcast. Like for me, that was the inspiration. I knew when I left treatment, when I left Karen and I moved to New York City, I moved into like really a sober living home. And I like that first 24 to 72 hours of like landing in this new place and having people around me and being able to connect and just even having a dog come up and say hi and having someone say, hey man, nice to meet you.

so much of mental health and substance. It's all about isolation. I mean, left to my own devices, I want to sit in my hotel room, text you guys, I don't want to come to this podcast. I got to head, like, whatever it is. Like, I just want to isolate. Yeah.

You know, so it's so important to be around community. And then that's what I do today is I try to mirror, like mirror a life to these people who are new that is possible to them if they just kind of put in a little bit of the work. Yeah. How cool. I knew you were going to love this one Oh yes I know I wrote that a lot

Oh yeah we're gonna yeah we're gonna connect I mean like Oh oh yes I yes very much So I have lemons by Tay which is like my I saw You have a nonprofit Yes you did a sound bath look I prepared Come on Have you done a sound bath before?

You know I don't think I've done a sound I've done I think everything besides the sound bath You I highly record Taylor actually recommends it It was his first time. Yeah. He does not sit still at all. Like, I didn't think he was going to like it, but he came to support his wife.

I did breath work a couple, like the real, like intensive breath work. And I was like, I was in another planet. I mean, that stuff works. Yeah. I didn't have done that. It ended in a way side. I mean, you just lay there. But he like got up and he was like, well, I really liked that.

I was like, oh, you did? That's so funny. So we have less thing. I think because I don't even know if you know this, but I would love for you to, explain about Narcan what it is and why it's. Narcan, huh? So, yeah, I'm on a big Narcan push today these days. So what's happened in the last more than a couple years,

but so the drug fentanyl has worked its way into our society. And fentanyl is a synthetic opiate. So you think about like heroin or oxycontin or whatever, like it's a man-made opiate that's 50 times stronger than anything you guys have ever really heard about or so it's lethal yeah that's what's killing a lot of people right yeah and what's happening and separate and aside from substance uses young people are going to college for the first time or they're in high school and they're trying cocaine or whatever it is and it's it's laced it's actually being laced with fentanyl because the drug dealers want to get the user hooked and so the person doing

that drug for the first time has no tolerance they end up overdosing there was no intention to to do fentanyl, they do. And they end up dying because there's no Narcan in the house. So Narcan is an overdose reversal drug that's super easy to use. Everyone can get trained on it. It looks like I should have brought, I have some of my backpack, carry it everywhere because my biggest fear is not having it. I'm dealing around someone who overdoses.

But anyone can get trained on it. It's super easy to use. There's some rumors that it's going to be available kind of over the counter soon. And so it's a life-saving drug. Yeah. And as we saw, you know, 100,000 plus people die, a drug-related overdose deaths last year in our country, I think about 80,000 of those were contributed to fentanyl.

So it's vital. It's necessary. It's needed. It's super easy. I mean, you Google it. There's local organizations that do trainings. We do trainings out in New York. So it is, and a lot of people don't know about it.

I was just talking to someone last week and they said they lost one of their cousins, who was 23 or 24, lost two friends in the course of a week. And they didn't even know what Narcan was. I hadn't heard of it. Yeah, I had a feeling. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah.

Yeah. I guess. I mean, I only know of it from nursing, but. How do you, how do you give it to somebody? Is it a shot? No, it's like, like, after. Yeah. It's a nasal spray.

You just, yeah, boom. I mean, there's a training, which is if you've done CPR training or anything else, there's steps, but really it's, are you okay? No, you're not okay. Get them on their side, blast it in their nose, call 911, do it again. Wow. And then hopefully they come to it. It reverses. It knocks the opioids off the brain and reverses the effects of an overdose. I mean, it's crazy that it even exists. Yeah. Is it a newer thing? Narcan. I mean, it's, it's not newer. It's gaining more traction because of the overdose rates and where they're going. Wow. I bet newer like in society.

because that's always a thing in the hospital. That was in our movie we just watched. And she gave him too much morphine or whatever it was. And she was looking for the Narcan. That's what it was. That's what she was looking for? Mm-hmm. Oh.

You used to be able to do it in a shot. And so the way I think about it, right? Like, are you going to have a fire extinguisher in your home? Yeah. Right? Like if the house burns down. Yeah. Yes.

So it should be in every club, deli, home, business in America. Because the reality is more people are doing drugs than we know. And my big thing, just so I'm clear, is I'm not here to tell anyone not to drink, not to just because I'm in recovery. That's something that is, you know, personal to me. And I still go out. I have plenty of fun. I'm around people that drink all the time.

And sometimes I even enjoy like the secondhand smoke of being around the rowdiness, right? Like it's, it's good energy sometimes. But I do ask people that do drugs to be educated and mindful and at least carry Narcan. Yeah. You know, fraternities, sororities, whatever it is. It just needs to be available. So. Wow.

Yeah. I feel like that's, I'm like that with Benadryl because a couple of my close friends have severe, like, tree nut allergies. So I'm always like, if one of them, they always have their epipens, but I always like have to have Benadryl in the house. I always have an epipen here. If we're out, I'll keep a Benadryl in the car. And that's like, it should literally be the same thing. Yeah. With Narcan.

So for sure. The nurse and me. Wait. Did we do Citrus Got Real? Oh. No, we didn't. No, we didn't. We could do it now.

Let's do it now to lighten it up. We're supposed to start every episode. I was too excited, guys. I'm sorry. Yeah, right? You're like, we got Zach. Let's go. Let's get deep.

We start every episode with our guest pulling a question from the Citrus Got Real Jar. They're very, very intense questions. Oh, here we go. I'm doing one of these. Yeah, just one. Oh, my God. So I don't eat fruit. Wow.

If you were a fruit, what fruit would you be? Why don't you eat fruit? Yeah, I just don't eat fruit. Okay. Just don't like it. Texture or something, eat it growing up. And now I think my friends would tell you it's a miracle that I like vegetables now, but fruit is not.

That's so funny. Oh, wow. Do I have to say lemon because you can make lemonade? Heck yeah. Should probably go. with that yeah that's so funny i'm weird i i will have fruit although i'm not the biggest fruit eater by any means just sloppy and like the juice and i don't know for me i'm give me a cheeseburger which is also sloppy but i won't put i can't do fruit i don't do fruity desserts and i don't

like fruit in like salads like other things like i will have it alone but in things I despise. So I'm halfway there with you with the fruit thing. I like fruit. Yes, you do. What was the question? What fruit would you be? What fruit would you be?

I don't know why, but dragon fruit came to mine. Okay. The hot pink one with the white inside. Yeah, that's a fun fruit. I don't know. I was feeling that. Okay. Well, I'll be a kiwi.

You like kiwi. I actually love kiwi. It's probably my favorite fruit. There's too many seeds in that one for me. It's like none of this sounds good. Even just you saying seed is grossing me out. Yeah, right. Lemon all day.

You know, the stuff you guys are doing here in this room, it's going to help a lot of people, the squeeze. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Well, thanks for coming and chatting with us. I'm so excited to listen to this back. You're like, let's get it.

No, thank you for your time. You're just full of so much wisdom and doing so much good for the spec. world and um yeah it was really cool to just sit down and get to know you a little bit more it didn't feel like a podcast felt you were just shown which is like the way it's supposed to be yes may like it's like we'll pizza next time yes oh my gosh yeah part two is pizza sign me up yeah exactly all right thanks guys wow well yeah there you have it yeah some true wisdom and amazing advice and inspiration from mr zatt clark and everything

he's gone through and in doing today. Truly blessed to have him with us today. Hope you guys enjoyed it as much as we did. Yeah, we'll leave links to release recovery and some other resources that we think could be helpful if you are struggling, if someone you love is struggling, because it's definitely a big topic, especially just right now. You know, addiction is a very big thing and has a lot of little things to it. So we'll leave some links for you guys. Be sure to give us a little rating. Subscribe to our YouTube channel.

We have the full episodes on there. Also, who doesn't like watching things? I like to watch podcasts. Yeah. Yeah. Why not? You can always follow us at The Squeeze on Instagram, Taye Lautner and Taylor Lautner and of course,

Lemonsby Tay. lemons by tay.com for additional resources or blogs. We've been having some good stuff up on there recently. I've been digging it. You've been crushing it. Yeah. We also have our email latner. dot thiswee's podcast at gmail.com for questions, comments, concerns,

all the good stuff. We love getting those emails because we get a lot of ideas from you guys, especially for like lemons by te content too. You guys really send a lot of helpful stuff. So thank you for that. But most importantly, please continue to share your journey with us and with those around you and send our show to a friend that you think could use a little extra squeeze in their life. Yes.

Thank you for listening, everyone. We are very thankful for each and every one of you. And we hope you have a wonderful rest of your week and weekend. And we'll see you right back here next Wednesday. We'll see you next week. This podcast has been brought to you by podcast. Podcast Nation.