The Startup Ideas Podcast - How to Become a Super Ball with Anthony Scaramucci

Episode Date: December 17, 2021

When things don't go your way, how do you react? On this episode of Where It Happens, former White House Director of Communications Anthony Scaramucci (@Scaramucci) joins the show to discuss how to turn bad situations into opportunities, the future of live events, and why he's bullish on crypto and Web3. Also, hosts Sahil Bloom (@sahilbloom) and Greg Isenberg (@gregisenberg) discuss their meme moments and whether it's time to reinvent The World's Fair.Want more community? Learn more here: http://trwih.comSPECIAL THANKS TO OUR SPONSORSFOUR SIGMATIChttps://us.foursigmatic.com/roomWe do a lot of drinking on the show, and we need to balance it out with something a little healthier. That’s why we can’t get enough of [Four Sigmatic](https://us.foursigmatic.com/room). Our go tos are their Hot Cacao Mix with Reishi Mushroom and Sweet Vanilla Plant-Based Protein. The Hot Cacao is packed with 500mg of Reishi to help you relax before bed. And the plant-based protein is filled with 18g of protein per serving as well as 7 different functional mushrooms and adaptogens, making it the perfect post-workout recovery drink.They’re delicious and we can’t recommend them enough for your daily routine. And by the way, they’re a great holiday gift!As a subscriber to this newsletter, you can receive 15% off your order. Head to https://us.foursigmatic.com/room and enter the code “TheRoom” at checkout.EIGHT SLEEPhttps://www.eightsleep.com/whereithappensThere’s still time to get an incredible gift for yourself or a loved one this holiday season. One of our favorite products of this entire year is the Eight Sleep Pod Pro Cover. We’ve both prioritized good sleep and haven’t found a better product on the market. The Pod Pro by Eight Sleep is the most advanced solution on the market for thermoregulation. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking. With the Pod Pro Cover, you start sleeping as cool as 55°F or as hot as 110°F. It also splits your bed in half, so you can have a completely different temperature than your partner.The result: Eight Sleep users fall asleep up to 32% faster, reduce sleep interruptions by 40%, and get overall more restful sleep.As a subscriber, go to eightsleep.com/whereithappens to get up to $250 off. This deal will only be available for 2 weeks, so give the gift of better sleep today.

So, found, find your phone sway. I'm still trying to get it like every day. Humbleness is hard when you start receiving praise. Giles here, but some words can never be taken away. Got to do what's best for you. Morning. What's going on? Dude, so, big week.

Had a lot going on. We both in the last week became a meme. We became memes. We became memes. And probably a lot of people that are listening to this or watching this saw something around this. But I wanted to talk about it because I thought it was a pretty interesting case study of the new internet. In this new age, we live in, ma'am. All right, so tell me your meme story.

So I'm going through the airport. And by the way, I'm going to preface this by saying this is a true story. So I got a lot of flack for this and everyone was giving me shit saying it wasn't true. I'm going to walk you through it. So I'm going through the airport. I'm at John Wayne Airport in L.A. going to flying back home. And it was like a week after I dropped that

Evergrand thread, the thing, the Chinese company where you were giving me crazy saying I was the Evergreen guy. So I'm walking through the TSA checkpoint and the TSA guy is like talking about Evergreen and I overhear him. And my first reaction is like, oh, I'm going to chime in here. I'm going to come in and say, yeah,

oh yeah, Evergrand, interesting story, interesting situation, whatever. And as I'm about to do that, he says, yeah, I read about it on Twitter from this guy Sahil Bloom. And I was like, damn, super cool life moment, overheard some guy that had seen about this. Wait, stop there. Best part about that is the Sahil Bloom.

I thought it was hilarious. It's also how my name is like so commonly mispronounced. Everybody, that's like the first thing, the first way they pronounce it. So anyway, he says it. I grab my bag, I walk away. I don't say anything about it. And then I tweet it out. Like, there's a cool life moment for me.

It's like an interesting thing. And so I tweeted out. and within 30 seconds, it is becoming an internet meme. And I've never experienced that, but, like, everyone over the course of the next 24 hours is tweeting out, like, the exact same format tweet with their own thing, trolling me. And so it was basically, like, I'm sitting on a plane and I'm flying back, and my internet is just blowing up with people, like, tweeting at me. Most of it was, like, good fun.

Some of it was not, and just, like, people openly just being mean about it. But it was kind of a wild situation. Like, how viral did it get? Pretty fun of viral. I feel like I saw it everywhere, man. It was everywhere. I mean, there were people, and it was so viral that there were random people saying it,

not citing me as, like, the original source of it. And then people saying, like, oh, this is a really hilarious thing, and a hilarious way that people are talking about. And did you feel bad? No, because I knew it was true. Because people were kind of making fun of me. Yeah, I mean, part of me was just like, I know it's true, so I don't feel bad.

And I'm just going to wear it. And, like, if people want to make fun of it, it's fine. But dude, I just leaned into it. I basically said, like, it's fine if you want to make me a meme. I'm going to donate money with it. And so, like, I got a bunch of new followers from it because a lot of people saw my page. And, like, Nidama Kong Su, the NFL player

who we're going to have on in an episode in season one, like came and said he would donate money and match me on whatever. So we ended up donating 10 grand to a charity associated with it. Like I said I would donate a dollar for every new follower I got from becoming a meme. And it was kind of cool. But basically, I had to just lean into it

because the internet is just permanent, man. can't like run and hide from stuff the way you might have used to be able to where you can just say oh yeah I'm just going to delete it walk away whatever and so I leaned into it four-sigmatic is the secret sauce behind the where it happens podcast you know how much I've been talking about that hot cocoa the one that's jam-packed with the rishi mushrooms it absolutely has been transforming my mornings I have it at night completely chills me out takes out all my stress and allows me to have a good night's rest after those long days I of tequila on the set. I'm sure that's helpful. I mean, it does help. The sweet vanilla plant-based

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and I can't fall back asleep, and I don't know what to do. So I was literally you. And for the longest time, I was this, like, hustle culture, bro, sleep when I'm dead, didn't want to sleep, didn't care about my sleep. And then I honestly, I started reading more of the research and realizing how impactful sleep is to your longevity, to your health, all of these other things. And as part of that, I found eight sleep, which has completely revolutionized the way I sleep. I've heard of eight sleep. Can you tell me more about it? Think of it as like the future of sleep. All of these mattress companies have created these

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Don't be like Greg Eisenberg. Be like Zahill Bloom. with it. There's basically two things you can do, right? You can either lean in or delete. Yeah. And we have a friend who... Yeah.

He would totally delete it, right? Yeah. He was panicked that whole time. He was texting me being like, dude, what are you going to do? This is awful. Your brand is shot. Right. And I don't know, man. I just think when you have something like that,

especially if you can stand behind it, just lean into it. So, can you double-click into that for a bit? Like, why didn't you decide to delete it? We were just like, it's true. Yeah, I mean, dude, it was true. And I didn't think the numbers were that ridiculous, by the way. The thread had gotten like seven million impressions.

I had gone on TV talking about it. And so I had actually been around talking about it. So I actually didn't think it was that low probability of an incident to occur either. And so I was just like, I'm just going to stand behind it. It's real. It is what it is. You want to hear my meme story? Yeah, quick.

I'm going to start pouring us drinks while you do that. Okay. While you do that, I posted a third. thread how, you know, I'm just like obsessed with NFTs and Web3 and I'm, I did this thread on why NFTs are the future. And the first day I posted, I'm getting so much love by all these people I respect. Like, the top people in like the Web3 community are like just sharing it and and just talking about how it's such a good thread and I'm feeling really good. I go to sleep at night. The world is beautiful. I wake up in the morning and I have thousands of replacements.

lies and retweets and likes on one portion of the thread that is just people meaning it. So I just pulled it up. There's actually 3,800 quote retweets, which is basically just people. Always bad. You wake up and there's 3,800 quote retweets. And I was, the tweet was most people who make fun of NFTs don't own NFTs. They've never minted. I remember this.

Yeah. They haven't staked their NFTs. they've never earned an NFT playing a game, et cetera, et cetera. Like the basic idea was that, like, there's a ton of people dunking on NFTs. But they're not in the game. They're not in the game. They're not in the game. Exactly.

Yeah. I got it. I actually didn't understand why it got memed. Yeah. But you did really become a meme. And our friend, same friend, was freaking out that whole time. I remember that. Yeah, because he was.

So I was everywhere. Yeah. And I, like you. Yeah. was like, what do I do? I mean, it goes in, it's only natural that it goes into your head. You're like, should I delete this? Yeah.

But I'm kind of like, this is what I believe. Yeah. You got to put it yourself out there. Yeah. I agree, man. And, uh, it's a good segue too, because our guest today, yeah, we're going to have in, has had his fair share of internet trolls and hate. So he's going to have some interesting perspectives on that as well.

Obviously, we've got a little ways that we need to, uh, dive into before he comes in. but it'll be fun to talk about with him. Yeah. So let's get this drink going and dive right into it. Let's do it. Hudson Whiskey, four-part harmony. Special edition, man. Hudson, like Hudson, New York?

Hudson, New York. Okay, yeah. It's a beautiful bottle. I've never... Have you had this? No, I haven't had it. Keep in mind, it's nine in the morning right now, so we're really committed to this whole drinking thing.

Oh, it's good. It's sweet. It's sweet, right? It's sweet. It's sweet. Sweet. It's good. So what are we talking about today? I want to talk World's Fair, if that works for you. Big World's Fair energy. I'm into it. I'm into it.

So let's talk World's Fair. I want to set the stage for this a little bit. So the World's Fair I first read about, I'm curious where you first heard about it. I first read about the World's Fair in the book, Devil in the White City, is the name of the book. Eric Larson, one of my favorite authors actually is amazing. It's like narrative nonfiction is his archetype. And Devil in the White City is really about the first serial killer in history effectively. And it's a true story, based on a true story, but it's based at the 1893 Chicago World's Fair. I think it was called the Columbian Exposition then, but it's the World's Fair.

And the whole thing with the World's Fair is like a gathering of the entire world, culturally, etc. You bring people together and share all the amazing things, progress that's happening. And I think it started in like the late 1700s. I think it was in Bohemia in Prague. They did the first one. And over the course of history, it's become this big way that basically countries went and flexed on whatever their progress was. And so it was like, you know, early days you'd go and flex on some industrial progress. Like at the 1893 won in Chicago, the Ferris wheel, the first Ferris wheel, was like the massive thing. People showed up, and there was this enormous circle there

that people didn't understand. You can imagine the first time you see a Ferris wheel, that's bananas to go and see that. You're going to get into a thing that's going around this 200-foot circle. That seems ridiculous. And so people would use it, these countries would use it, to flex on their progress.

And it was people, and it was also countries, and it was like a romantic aspect to it. You would go, and there was people from different cultures, and they would do dances. And there was like this amazing, amazing thing. And for a lot of history, it was like the one time per each year, every few years, where the world would actually come together. It was like an intellectual Olympics, like cultural intellectual Olympics sort of, rather than being sports, it was people coming

together. Okay. So you know about this guy, because we've talked about this, but there is someone out there today who is pitching the idea of bringing back the World's Fair. Basically, Making a new world's fair, right? Yeah. Because doesn't the World's Fair already exist? Like, it still happens. There was one in Dubai recently. Right now.

Right now? So Dubai was supposed to have the 2020 World Expo. I think they were calling it. It was this massive thing. COVID obviously got in the way of that. So now they're doing, I think it's still called 2020 World Expo, but it's Dubai, 2021 through 2022. But the whole idea is like six months, six extravaganza.

People come in. It's this huge economic boon, et cetera. So we recently got pitched on the idea of the new World's Fair, bringing it back, bring back the World's Fair, go and do it bigger, better than it's ever been before. And I don't want to talk about it because I think it's interesting. Okay, so let's talk about it. Okay. Hit me. What do you think?

I mean, so I've known about the World's Fair my whole life because growing up in Montreal, the World's Fair, it was called Expo 67. Yep. It was a big deal. And I actually... The Montreal Expos, by the way, the baseball team and baseball guys, so I got to say it, Montreal Expos named after Expo, whatever they... 67. Yeah, 67. That's how they got their name.

So everyone in the city, everyone in the city knows about, you know, how important the Expo is. Yeah. Where you can go out on the street and just be like, what is the World's Fair? What is an Expo? And people will tell you. Is that like the moon landing for Canadians? It's like, everyone knows where they're. they were when the moon landing happened in the U.S.?

Is that like, where were you when 67 Expo happened? Pretty much. So, recently I actually went to, I don't know if I told you this, but I went to a hotel in Montreal and it was World's Fair themed. And you walked into this hotel and everything, like all the walls had like things about the World's Fair. All the rooms like were unique and different and they all had like, you were maybe in like the Chinese room or the Japanese room or different, all that sort of thing.

And you put on the TV and there's like, you know, you don't get like CNN or CBS. You get like videos, old school videos of the World's Fair. Yeah. And I actually learned about like I watched this, like I turn on the TV and I watched the making of the World's Fair. And it was this in Montreal. And there was this beautiful moment where I think like in 1963 they were like, we want to do this World's Fair. and they built an island in four years and they did The Impossible

and the story about how they did the impossible and how all of Canada came together to make it happen. This is just like beautiful story. It's very romantic. It's very romantic. And I think like the more, that's the common thread of all of

Expo stories or World Fair stories is that it's the coming together of people and it's the showcasing of these different cultures. And there's a lot in the same thing. for that. Yeah. So on one hand, I love the idea around like showcasing cultures, promoting other cultures, bringing people together, experiential stuff. Like I think there's a huge business opportunity there. Like I'm sure you've seen like museum of ice cream and stuff like that, but on a bigger scale. Yeah. On the other hand, like isn't the internet that,

Like, isn't the internet where you, like, go and, like, showcase stuff? Like, if I'm coming out with a new product, I don't, like, I don't need to showcase it at, like, a physical event. You know what I mean? Like, that's kind of the bearish case for this. Yeah, I mean, I have a lot of thoughts here. So basically, look, I think this is either, there's something I really like about it. I love the aspect of nostalgia. I love the aspect of bringing people together.

I think the cultural blending. I think it's amazing. And a lot of cool things happen when you bring a lot of people together. Cool business ideas get formed. There's intermingling of thoughts. I mean, amazing things can happen at something like this.

But it's got big fire festival vibes too. Like this whole idea feels a little bit like, okay, we're bringing 50 million people together. We're going to, you know, it's like events are not easy to do. I mean, I know a lot of people who try to do events. Our guest today has one of the most successful event businesses in the world. I mean, it's really hard to do. There's a lot of little nuances to doing something like this.

It's not just like, oh, yeah, slap an idea on a page. We're going to go create this massive event. 50 million people are going to come. We're going to make $20 billion in the first run. And to give him credit, I mean, this guy is clearly selling a really cool story and vision and ambition. And it is romantic and it brings up nostalgia. He's raised a bunch of money. There's real people that are coming on to it.

So I'm either, like, in love with the idea and I want to just be a part of it because I think it's going to be really cool. Or I think it's just like the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. There's no middle ground for me on this and I don't know where I'm landing on it. I think like what's smart about what he's doing is like he picked a business idea

or startup idea that like is cold, like there's a lot of connection culturally. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like he's not and in those types of businesses you can raise tons of money because like you're pitching, let's say people like me like, you know, I brought this.

This is an astray. It's an astray from the Expo World's Fair, 1967 in Montreal. And, like, people like me, I get pitched on it. And it's like, yeah, like, you know, maybe I would invest. Maybe I want to see a new World's Fair, you know? And I think, like, there's... Like, from an actual business standpoint, starting and running something like this is insanely complicated.

It's not like... A lot of the business ideas we talk about here. And some of the things we've talked about in our first show is you could go spin up in a weekend, like a MVP for this. Doing a 50 million person event, even if it's one-tenth of that, a five million person event, is a ridiculous undertaking. And it needs to involve governments. It needs to involve all the municipality. Like if you're going to do all these pavilions, there's all the building involved. I mean, there's like a crazy, crazy bunch of coordination that has to happen in order to make this work.

And so, like, that's the part where I just, like, I guess I can't understand the idea because it's so hard to actually execute something like this at a grand scale and in a good way. I mean, like, Billy McFarland, right? Right. Fire Festival was a great idea. I would give him credit for it. He's, like, fraudster and, you know, did a lot of things that are really bad. But the idea of it, if he had executed, it would have been dope. Here's what I would do if I was the New World's Fair guy.

Go for it. So I wouldn't raise a lot of money and like go and build a bunch of events from the get-go. I would think about how can I build it, like how can I do community first, internet first, validate the demand and then build events. Because like right now what he's going to do is like he's going to have to go work with cities. He's going to have to get space. He's going to have to like get vendors. He's going to have to coordinate. It's a lot of stuff.

Yeah. I would, you know, if I was him, I would kind of just. build, you know, start with Discord, start with Facebook groups, start with, you know, start with like no code solutions, build it out, build the demand, and then go to like the city of, you know, Miami and be like, hey, I have a million people who are interested in this thing and there's like a lot of like real digital activity. Let's translate that into like the physical. I like this a lot the way you're thinking about it. It reminds me, have I ever talked to you about the mental model, like the map is not the territory? Have I ever talked to about this? No. So this is this whole idea that you are fundamentally the map is supposed to be a representation of the territory that you're looking at. And the more you abstract the territory into a map, the worse it is,

like the lower fidelity the map is. And so if you have a massive stretch of land and you're trying to create it into like this tiny map, it's going to be a pretty crappy map because you're trying to boil down this massive piece of territory that's very complicated into something very simple. We all create maps. Like maps are mental models.

You're going around the world. You're trying to create different maps of everything you're looking at. And the challenge is when you're using a map that actually doesn't match the thing that you're going and trying to create and do. And I think this is a perfect example of where that can come into play, which is basically to say he has created a map based on what the World's Fair is. And it's based on what the past looked like. So what World's Fair has looked like in 1893, The Devil in the White City in Chicago, this amazing hundreds of pavilions, etc. And he's using that to play out how you should pursue and build everything. When the reality of what you're hitting on is that maybe the World's Fair of 25, 2030 looks a whole lot different than what it looked like in the past.

I mean, maybe, like, certainly. Certainly, yeah. And the pursuit of building it looks a lot different than what it would have looked like in 1893 or in 1950. or whatever year it was. Maybe it doesn't have to be physical at all, to your point. Maybe you end up building a digital world sphere where people can come together. Because how many people, the thing that I push back on with all of this is there aren't that many people that are going to be able to or have the means to travel to these things.

And in a digital world, one of the most exciting trends that's happening is that we're breaking down the barriers to anybody having access to these amazing cultural and intellectual experiences and learning experiences. And so if you could build a world's fair, like if his idea can become the genesis of either him or someone else building something really unique that becomes like a hybrid physical digital world's fair like experience, that's pretty darn cool to me. I think he hit on a really smart insight around like people want to connect. Countries want to show off their stuff. And I think that there probably is space for something like this. But I think what we're saying, it sounds like what we're saying is maybe like the entry point is kind of a bit of a miss.

Yeah. And maybe he's changed and like maybe he's going digital first. I mean, I love the ambition. I love the vibe that he's putting up, raising money for it. Let's talk about things we love about this and things we hate about it. So things we love, you know, what do you got? I love the ambition. I think it's a huge idea, which I think is really cool.

And if you're going to go build something, you might as well build something big. something big. I think I can think like Steve Schwartzman, the Blackstone guy, talks about that where like it's just as much effort to start something small as it is to start something big, so you might as well go big. And this guy is clearly going pretty big as it makes about the idea. And I love that. Can I just edit that for a second? So I totally agree with that sentiment, but you don't need, your MVP doesn't need to go big. Yeah, that's true. Minimal viable product doesn't need to go big. Your vision could go big, but the entry point needs to, you need to go big. to be covert, it needs to be tactical, it needs to be super smart, it needs to be intentional.

And you need to test along the way to your point. I just don't know if there's 50 million people that would want to go to the World's Fair today. Right. So is that your bearish, is that your kind of bearish hat? No, my bearish hat of these can't do it. This is so hard. I just think there's so many nuances to doing an event business.

I mean, we, like, again, we'll talk to our guest when he comes in and talk about the nuances of running an event business. But there's just a lot that has to get coordinated around it. And when you're talking about on the scale that he's talking about, you have to involve national governments, municipal governments. I mean, it's everybody. It's insane. What do you think happens to this business in 15 years?

What's your prediction? My prediction would be it gets boiled down to something more manageable and doable. And I think his ambition and his energy is amazing. And I never like to bet against people that have good energy. So I would guess he ends up getting something spun up that works. Yeah, that's my vibe with it too. It's rare you meet people who have like that ambition. Yeah.

And like I think he was able to raise a lot. Yeah. It's not a venture bet. Like I just, I don't understand it as a venture investment though. I really don't. I just am like, I don't know, what's the valuation of a. I mean, he's pitching it like it's $20 billion revenue. I don't know.

Like you buy World Expo supposed to generate. I saw some projection this morning when I was looking this up, like $20 billion for the Dubai government. It's just, like, how can that possibly, how can you project anything out? I think my prediction is he zigs and he zags. Yeah. And he, you know, he kind of Trojan horses his way in. Yeah.

And he makes something happen. Yeah. He seems like the type of guy that can do some zig and his ag and make it work, man. And, like, I'm all for that. I love people to do this kind of stuff. So I feel like we're at a good spot on it. I want to bring in our guest and get his perspectives because he's actually built event businesses and he's actually done the nuances and the details of trying to build something like this out.

And he'll have a lot more interesting and informed perspectives than we will on it. So Anthony has a really long career. He's done a bunch of stuff. He was the founder of Skybridge, which is one of the most successful fund of funds in the world, has done a lot in crypto recently, as you know, very, very cool. Also the founder of Salt, which is one of the biggest conferences in the world within the financial world, in particular, has been very successful. But, as we all know, he's most well known for his 10-day stint as White House head of communications

under the Trump administration, was famously forced out of that position and has been an active critic of our former president since then. So really excited to have him in. He's very opinionated and a lot of fun to be around, as both of us know. So very excited to welcome into the room where it happens. Our friend, Anthony Scaramucci, the mooch. Do you mind being called the mooch? the mooch. Let's train.

You like that? Cheers. Just so everybody knows, it's 7 a.m. These guys are already drinking, okay? We're degenerates around here. That's what we're known for. So we were talking before you came in about the World's Fair. And there's a young man, I don't know if he's even a young man.

He's probably 30. Going around raising millions of dollars right now to try to bring back and rebuild the World's Fair. But you've actually done this shit. Like you've gone, you built Salt, one of the most successful financial conferences, conferences in general in the world. And you built it from the ground.

up. Can you just talk about, like, is this ridiculous? Is it possible? What do you think? Well, your generation is your age, I'm assuming, or younger. I would never doubt anybody in your generation. I think you guys have balls, courage, conviction. You're more mature than my generation. I think we had more fun, by the way. I like being the oldest person in the room because I walk in, I'm like, okay, I definitely have more fun than these guys in college because you're not allowed to talk to people anymore. Everything's politically correct. You could end up getting canceled for saying something stupid.

That didn't happen to us. We were all reckless and totally fine. And there was no social media. So there was no record of me being an idiot. It just happened to be a fall on idiot. When was that in the 80s? Yeah, that was in the 80s. Yeah, unless I go too far.

It wasn't the 60s, Bloom. But here's what I would say, a project like that is probably different from a conference, right? because now you're talking about global exhibition and you're talking about figuring out a way to get at least a 15 or 20 industrial nations involved. And so you're creating a mini-epcott. And so that is a massive undertaking.

Having said that, if he can raise some money and he can get the ball rolling, and it'd be smart enough to do what somebody like a Jeff Bezos did, which is delegate, farm out, create a collaboration with a group of people It's not impossible, and you can probably get it done. The number one thing I tell people is you can't do everything yourself.

But if you've got a team, you've got a really good group of people, and you're willing to collaborate, you can get an unbelievable amounts done. And in my organizations that I've run, people work with me. They don't work for me. See, the distinction is very important. Because if you're working with me, you're now empowered, you're my partner, we're collaborating. If you're working for me and you have that ordnance structure, it can be limiting and then sometimes it could be suffocating. So I don't know the guy, but he could be, he could be on to something, he could pull it off. You want to talk to him?

Do you want to invest? No, I don't want to invest, but I definitely talk to him. I like mentoring people. What advice would you give him? You know, he's just starting out, he's raised a bit of money, he's got great ambitions. Oh, look, I mean, it's on the world's fair in a lot of places. They did it in Knoxville. They did it in Seattle.

Have you ever been to one? The one that I went to in 1964, I just might add, I was in the stroller. Right. By my mom and dad, okay, out here in Queens, those people are probably long gone in terms of those planners. But I would go to the most recent ones, and I would identify people that have planned this thing before and get them in the loop. You know, when we were talking about the Sall Conference, I'll take you back to 2009. Every major investment bank was leaving Las Vegas because of the tariff. money. And so what was that? The government gave all the banks money to help defend their

balance sheets during the crisis. And so they all felt compelled to cancel any highfaluting conferences because they didn't want to be seen spending the government's money in a place like Las Vegas. I think President Obama didn't do it on purpose, but he was like, hey, now is not the time to go to Las Vegas. And so all these guys canceled. And here I am as a small time entrepreneur seeing that opportunity. So I go, wait a minute, you know, we shouldn't be giving up all of our conferences, I'm a smaller company, I didn't receive TARP money, I'm going to put a stake in the ground and fill that vacuum. But I couldn't do it on my own. So I called the mayor of Las Vegas. I called Steve Wynn. I, you know, went to people that have built conferences before, Michael

Milken. It's my first keynote speaker. And so I would tell him, you've got to think like that. You've got a great idea, but you're not going to be able to do everything. Find people that can help you do the things that you need to do. What do you think? I mean, you built something incredible with salt. You just ran, I know, your most recent one. It was in person, which was a huge thing for New York to bring that back and do something in person.

I know people were really excited about it. It was a great event, by the way. I really enjoyed it. Thank you. What do you think the future of these events looks like post-COVID? Do you think it's going to come back and I'll be in person, or do you think it's going to be some kind of digital hybrid experience? Well, I think it's coming back.

I think we need each other. I think we need the physicality. We're a social organization, social organism, if you will. And I also think that one of our problems is that we're always tied into a screen. And so we're always here, and we're interacting with each other here over Zoom. And so we're losing that physical connection. So I actually think the conferences are going to be bigger and weirdly better because it's like a concentrated dose of human personal contact.

So in the case of our conference, we did it at the Javid Center. We ran those air conditioners and those HEPA filters overtime. We paid the money to do that. Very high ceiling. Scott Gottlieb, a friend of mine, who was the former FDA commissioner, came in and gave me a safety protocol, which we followed. We had a vaccine mandate, which I feel very, very strongly about. And a result of which we had little to no breakthrough COVID.

And people could wear masks or not wear masks, because that was a vaccine. the health guidance. And of course, we had big outdoor spaces for networking. So it worked. I think people were happy. You were there. Yeah, it was great. People enjoyed it. And so I think we're going back to that. And I think as we start to normalize in this pandemic becomes an endemic situation, which is treatable. I had the opportunity to go to the Damon Runyon Cancer Research Foundation breakfast this morning. Ken Frazier was being honored, the former CEO of Merck. And we had a chance to connect before the breakfast, talking about these antiviral therapies that are coming, it's going to be very promising for us.

That's why the future is always bright. There's people like you guys that are going to be running the future. But you don't want to think linearly about our society. You can get very pessimistic. You want to think exponentially about our society. And that's where you get very optimistic about technology and things that we can do to solve our problems. It leads to something really interesting because one of the things I've been most impressed about you as I've learned more about you and as we've gotten to know each other and

become friends is you're someone that's come from a different generation. You've built in multiple generations, different businesses. And yet you've been such a massive proponent recently, especially of cryptocurrencies and of Bitcoin and of Web 3 and you're supporting it, investing in it with Skybridge and doing all these other things. How did that happen? Like, where did you come from on that? What got you so excited about the exponential potential? So I have kids your ages. Yeah. They are pains in the ass.

I will tell you that. I'm not a manned ass, for what it's right? I don't know he won't. I'll judge that after the podcast. It's over where then I think you're a pain in the ass. But here's what happens. You have to make a generational decision. So I can remember my parents thinking that we were naive, large generation gap.

They couldn't learn anything from me. And by the way, I couldn't learn anything from them. And I think that is a very big mistake that generations make. You know, you guys are in the future, and you guys are doing things that I have not experienced. You know, when you got to college, there were computers. You know, when I was in college, believe not, there were no computers. We had a mainframe. You had to sign up for it.

And I had to go and wait to get on a terminal that was hooked into a digital equipment mainframe. And so if I was typing up a report, I had to send it to the same thing. the main frame and then someone would print it out for me the next day. Okay, that's how I grew up. I used to a frame of reference. So, but I have life experience. I've been through market cycles. I think people your age could learn from me in terms of that perspective. You know, Bitcoin is at an all-time high this morning as we're speaking, but it could crash by 50%. How do you weather those storms? How do you think about it? So I think my generation can offer that perspective. So I want you guys would be open-minded to listen to that.

But the flip side, I've got to listen to you guys. I've got to listen to what you're working on, whether it's programmable biology, the blockchain, cryptocurrency, things that could be related to the ecology of the planet. We both, all three of us know that the planet is not doing well. If you look at the diagnostics of the planet, the carbon admission, the fires, the pollution in some of the big cities like Beijing as an example, We don't need to be debating whether or not we're hurting the planet anymore.

I don't think. I think we've litigated that. We're hurting the planet. We have to figure out how to solve for that. So your generation, I think, is going to come up with those ideas, those innovations. I've got to be listening to that. And so, you know, it's interesting about my son, AJ, went to Stanford Business School, Bright Kid, running a venture fund.

He's a crypto skeptic. He's not the crypto ball. Okay. One of his partners happens to be a crypto ball. But what got me into it is speaking with guys like Anthony Pompellano, taking the time to understand it. One of my intellectual mentors is the guy named Charlie Munger, who's that? He's 97 years old. He says that Bitcoin is the worst thing that's ever happened.

Rap Poison Square. We've had Holocaust. We've had Earthquoise. But Bitcoin, we've had bombs go off. But Bitcoin's the worst thing that's happened in civilization. And it's surprising to me because when you learn about his history, life, he was a lawyer with the Harvard Law School, looked up to him, I still look up to him. But would he say know the other side of the argument better than your own argument?

And so I have found that anybody that studies the blockchain, studies Bitcoin, cryptocurrencies, a guy like Ray Dalio, a brilliant guy, a Bitcoin skeptic, studies it, he buys Bitcoin. Paul Tudor Jones, a skeptic, studies it, buys Bitcoin. And I can name 10 or 20 these people. So once I started to understand. understand that, I said, okay, well, wait a minute. This is a technological delayering mechanism for our society. We can take the middle men, the middle women, out of our transactions, and we can start transacting peer to peer. And it has unbelievable long-term ramifications. The blockchain is going to allow us to trust each other without knowing each other. We don't have to go through a JP Morgan where you pick a firm, a well- Wells, Fargo, whoever, we can go to each other over the blockchain. I want you to think about the echo-friendliness of that, the efficiencies that will create,

and it will free us up to do other things in a society. So for me, once I got that, once I understood it, and I had this conversation with Michael Saylor yesterday, he's been a very good friend of mine, is, I'm like, okay, I'm not long enough. Okay, how do I get more long this? And then, of course, I'm dealing with my generation, which are poo-pooing it. and they're all institutionalists, and they don't want to be embarrassed by being wrong. As you guys know, I've been fired from the White House.

I got fired from Goldman Sachs. I've been torched in business. I don't mind being wrong, okay? I'm like a human crash dummy. I have no problem being wrong. What I would encourage your generation to do is take risks, hit the pavement, and be a Super Bowl.

You don't want to be going China. You don't want to be the guy that went to Stanford. It's like, oh, my God, I went to Stanford, so therefore I can't. fail. I've got to do everything perfectly and I've got to please my parents and I have my career art's got to be a 45 degree angle, take risk. Be willing to fail because if you're willing to fail, then you can get exposure to Bitcoin. I've got buddies in mind that are like, man, I hear what you're saying, but I can't be embarrassed if I'm wrong. Well, what do you mean? Well, if I put

3% of my portfolio in Bitcoin at $8,000 a coin and it goes to zero, now I've embarrassed myself. I got huck stirred and it was a con. But I'm not that guy. I'm willing to take that risk because I see what you guys see in the future. And I think we're all going to be right about it. But even if I'm wrong about it, I have it sized in my portfolio from an allocation perspective where I think it's going to be fine. And I have to deal with now clients of mine that hate Bitcoin. So I created a ETF called Crypt, CRPT.

It's got unbelievable correlation to Bitcoin, but it's in Coinbase. micro strategies, marathon digital. You see what I mean? So now I can go to my fuddy dutty, these old farts I have to deal with, and say, okay, you don't want to buy the Bitcoin, but how about these companies that are growing at 50% a year? It's equivocating. It's good.

It's smart. Yeah, you have to be flexible. Be flexible. Neurly plastic. You hit on something, I mean, the Super Bowl thing, I've never heard it referenced that way, and I think it's amazing. You're someone who you've learned how to take a punch really, really well, and pivot, gather yourself. a lot of practice, but throw the next one.

But, like, there's something amazing in that, and it's probably one of the biggest signals of someone that's going to be successful, is the ability to take a punch, gather yourself, pivot, and still fight back after that. What taught you that? Like, what in your life? Remember, I grew up in a blue-collar family, okay? You know, my father didn't give me a lot of advice because he was wearing a green uniform when he went to work.

He was loaded with grease when he came home. And he got up at 4.30 in the morning. I can remember my mother putting his lunch pail. in the refrigerator at 9.30 at night. He came home with 3.30. I mean, God forbid, you weren't at that dinner table. At 515, you got your ass kicked by him. But if you were in sports, then it was okay. But if you weren't in sports, you had to be sitting at the table with him. And he was a hard guy. He was a very honest guy. And he couldn't give me a lot of advice. But he said to me something that I'll share with you and you should think about it. When I got my job at Goldman, okay, so I graduated from

Harvard Law School. My parents think it's Hartford Law School. I mean, they have No idea. They never want to take me to Hartford. I'm like, Mom, it's Harvard Law School. Why the hell would they call it Hartford Law School if it's not in Hartford? It's not called Hartford Law School, right? It's like an everybody loves Raymond's sitcom, right? Right.

So I'm coming out of school. I got my job at Goldman. I'm buying myself some suits. And my father says to me, I want you to never complain about your job. And I said, what do you mean? Just remember something about your job. You're indoors. You're out of direct sunlight, and there's no heavy lifting.

Okay, I just want you to think about it every second. My dad spent 42 years on a crane, hot and cold weather, working the crane. Crane broke down. You got to get out of the cabin, fix the crane. He did that for 42 years. And so here I am blessed with this opportunity to wear a suit. You guys dressed like shit, by the way. We'll talk about that on our fashion podcast.

I can't believe the way your generation dresses. I can't believe the way your generation dresses. It's like unbelievable. me but that's fine these are the billionaires of the today's podcast I'm the pauper but it's fine but I just want to think about that so my expectations were here okay so when you get hit and you watch your father get up in the morning at 3.30 look okay this is no big deal okay he's got five big fucking deal let me dust off and get back to work oh I'm getting fire from Goldman okay

fine let me go find another job turns out I found a job of gold right so this is another funny part of my life They gave me an $11,000 severance check. They fired me on February 1st, 1991. I'm looking for a job. I get a job offer back at Goldman. The personnel director, she's a lovely person. She's like, we're going to mark you down as in the departmental transfer.

You'll never have to tell anybody that got fired. Can we get the $11,000 check back? I'm like, no way. I need the money. I'm paying off school debt. I said, you can tell the whole planet I got fired. I don't give a shit. You see what I'm saying?

Why would you give a shit, right? So now I'm back and good. Goldman working, and I realize that I got to start my own business because I don't fit into their culture. I don't have the right personality. And that's another big lesson for your listeners is don't conform. You don't want to be a conformist, okay, because your life will suck. Every day will be dread, and every day will be work. And so you got to figure out who you are and be comfortable in your own skin. And so I realized that I couldn't be there. And so I wrote down on my book, if I can pay off my school debt, the day after I'm leaving.

even Goldman Sachs to create my own business. So I paid my debt off in May of 1996, at the age of 32. I left Goldman Sachs on December 1st at the end of their fiscal year. So low expectations, accept failure, be willing to pivot. You got to have a sense. You know, when you're getting your ass fire from the White House, and they're lighting you up on Saturday Night Live, and you run into Lord Michaels at the Met Yankee game,

you know, you're saying, hey, a little more hairspray, please. The tie wasn't tight enough, right? What are you going to do? You're going to do. The exact thing we were talking about at the beginning of the show. You've got to lean into it. Like, stuff happens in your life. You get embarrassed.

Even Colbert asked me. He said, do you think you're going to last a long time in the white house? I said, longer than a cart in the milk in the refrigerator. I don't think it was going to get blown out like that. Do you think our generation is softer? No, I think your generation is self-conscious. I don't, not softer. No, you got very tough.

Remember, I've been on troop support missions to Iraq and Afghanistan. You got some killers in your generation. I don't think they're softer. There's a layer of your generation that might be a little entitled where they have high expectations, but there's self-consciousness that you have to do away with. So in other words, I'm going to start this company. I'm going to go to the cocktail party. I've got to be able to brag about the success of the company, and I've got everything figured out.

I've got to tell everybody that. That, I think, is a weakness. That's not a strength. The strength is telling people authentically what's going on in your life. because the minute you can turn to that and you can express your vulnerability, people start trusting you. They say, well, how are you doing?

You said, well, look, this is how I'm doing? You know, we just had a set back here. I tried to launch the website. It blew up. All of a sudden, someone will look at you, say, this is a real guy. You know, because everybody's dealing with that. Everybody's got problems.

And when you're trying to gloss over your situation or paint a perfect picture, to me, that's a sign of insecurity. So, no, I think you've got very tough people in your generation. I'm very impressed with your generation. I have high hopes for your generation that, frankly, are going to solve a lot of the problems that my generation costs. You know, we were neilist smoking pot.

They're going to Woodstock. People are still smoking pot. Of course they are. But I'm saying they're going to Woodstock, then they're driving around in BMWs with yellow ties in the 80s, and they're peeing on each other in the politics. You know, it's not enough for me to be 100% right. to have to beat your brains in on cable television, and that's hurting the country. We have to figure out a way to focus not on left or right, but what's right or wrong.

That's why I like reading your stuff, because you're looking at it from a heuristic perspective. You're looking at it from a clinical perspective. What's going to make somebody successful? What's going to make a kid motivated to read and write? Let's focus on things like that. Let's not focus on the politics and the unions and all this stuff. how do we get a kid and give him a platform of equal opportunity?

I'm all about unequal outcomes. I want you guys to both shoot yourselves into space and your own rockets, like Bezos. God bless. If you can create public good and make that level of public profit and you want to shoot yourself into space and a rocket, go for it. Bring Captain Kirk with you, okay? But we have to have equal opportunity.

We have to have a platform of equal opportunity. born in Harlem or if I'm born in inner city and you know maybe my parents haven't figured it out is there something in our society that can help me figure it out I grew up with a modest amount of money in a middle-class environment but they were strong people and they were hitting me to go study and they they wanted us to go to college they didn't know what fucking college it was but they wanted us to go okay and we have to do that for our our young people and you guys are going to figure that out I have high hopes. You guys, these technologies are going to allow for brilliant educators to enter everybody's classroom.

If our politics and our policies and how we deal with unions and all this other stuff, allow that to happen, and that would be transformed. It would be very good. Yeah, I think that's what, I mean, if I were to have a takeaway from it, I think that's what I find so exciting about Web3 and about cryptocurrencies, is that it's not the rich kid that grew up and went to Goldman and, you know, has been an MD at Goldman for the last 20 years that's getting rich off this. It's anybody. I mean, there's a massive generational transfer of wealth that's happening right now. And the incumbents don't like it.

Insiders don't love the fact that anybody can get onto these on rails and operate in this system. But it's such a cool thing. Some of the incumbents. Yeah. Some of the incumbents. I would say, I would say all of them. You know, listen, I love it. You know, I'm a product of a blue-collar family. That's true. But you're a little different. I want the society to be flatter. I want good thing.

You know, I was with... You didn't grow up in a country club culture, though, going and playing golf on the weekends. You've made yourself into what you are. That's one of my best stories that we make ourselves into what we are. You never do it on your own. Trust me. You need mentors and professors and you need parents and you need siblings. When somebody tells me they're self-made, I did it all on my own.

And I'm like, okay, it's not possible. Not in our society, right? But I'll tell you guys a funny story. I'm at the Charles Hotel. Boston? In Boston. The Goldman Sachs has set up an interview room. And I walk in there, and this is the 80s.

I'm in 100% polyester. I got a polyester black suit. Okay, I'm like a young funeral director. I'm setting the scene. I got a polyester shirt. Like, I'm literally glowing. I mean, this shit can come out of the dryer. You don't even have to even bring it to the dry cleaner.

I got a black Guido tie, and I'm wearing these Capizio dance shoes. We used to call them Cockroach killers because they had points on them. You could kill cockroaches in the corners, okay? And I got them laced up, my hair's blown back, but like Tony Minero from Saturday Night Live, and I'm in the interview, and there's two guys sitting there like you guys are, and they're asking me questions about the TED spread and the Euroswap and the PetroDollar,

and I'm hitting every question, and the one guy gets up. He says, can I see you for something? I said, yeah. I got to tell you, you're a smart kid. You were the worst dressed person that we've ever met at the Harvard Law School. What are you doing in this outfit? And I looked at him like,

I thought I looked great. I had no idea, okay? And I, this is my best clothing. I said, okay, listen to me. I can't bring you to Goldman Sachs dressed like this. You've got to go to Brooks Brothers or Jay Press. Go buy yourself some natural fiber clothing, okay? I was literally fully flammable for my first Goldman Sachs.

Okay. And why am I telling you this? Because it's a right of passage. You know, you don't go from my neighborhood with my family members, never hitting a golf ball, never swinging the tennis racket, never seen the inside of a country club, never seen the inside of an office building. And it's easy.

You know, you go and you have tremors of embarrassment and self-consciousness and doubt as you were trying to find your way and try to make that transition. So anyway, you know, that's why I think you guys are dressed like shit. We're not flammable for one of it. Yeah, exactly. You're natural fiber. Maybe our hair products is flammable.

It's probably a sign of intelligence, though, that like I'm dressed like this all cramped in my suit, 10 pounds heavier than I need to be. And you guys are dressed comfortably and casually. It's probably a sign of intelligence. I'm going to have to put on a suit later. Yeah. If I go on doing it. You're going to go on television?

I got to do something. I got to look nice. That's another big thing for me. Like, if you're going to be on TV, generations watch television, young and old. And old people like seeing people in suits. They get turned off by the other stuff. I like looking nice. My profile picture on Twitter is still being in a suit.

Dunkin for it. Be you. It's going on with the hair, though. Honestly, I know you like looking at it. But what is this whole thing with the floof and like spraying that? Palo Alto Energy. Is that what it is? So you put shit in your head and you look like that.

I woke up like this. You just woke up like that. Believe it or not, that's $600 right there. Is it? Yeah. $600 to do that? No, no, no, no. You know, I come from modest means.

I'm impressed. I'm impressed. So I know we're up against the end of the time. Low expectations, high performance. That'll get you a long way. Low expectations. The world doesn't owe you anything. Yeah.

Okay, you got to make it happen. Yeah, but what I'm hearing you say is also the mend. your mindset is so, so important. And almost like your mindset is the difference between... 100%, of course. Yeah. I also think, I mean, my biggest takeaway from some of the stuff you're saying, too, is you can't do it on your own.

Can't do it on your own. You said it as it relates to the world's fair. You need help. You know, would have Ben Franklin say, if you want to make a friend, ask a stranger for a favor. That's how you make a friend. The beauty is... I wrote about this once.

Yeah. I wrote about this once. Okay, of course. You've got to ask people from... Because let me tell you something. I mean, human beings have a nature, good human beings, where they want to reciprocate. Reciprocation is a six-continent, universal language. If I do you a favor, you are inclined to want to do me one.

And so I ask you to do me a favor. Now you feel good about yourself. And now you know you've got an OZ for me. Yeah. You know, and it's not linear. I'm not making it a quid pro quo. You want to do non-linear favors, and you want to be a karma bank. for people. You want people to know they can call you if they're in a pinch,

and you're going to be there for you. Okay, and you do that, you're going to have a very happy life. And you know, you wrote about this recently, and I tell my kids, okay, I can only give you two gifts. You want to hear my? Yes. The only thing you can inherit from me are two things. Forget about the money because the money's not going to make you happy. It would make you comfortable. Two things. Number one, celebrate the successes of your friends, and I've seen you write about that. I can't emphasize that much.

You want to be the first call for your friends when something good is happening for them. They're flying themselves in a space. Hey, Mooch, I'm flying myself into space. That's awesome. Okay, let's go drink champagne together, right? And then the second thing is find what you really love to do and do that. Don't do anything else. You know what it is.

I don't know what it is. I know what it was for me. I like selling. I had a paper out is 11 years old. I love people. I like meeting people. I like connecting people. That's how the Salt Conference.

came about. I like building businesses that are on teams. I was a, you know, played a lot of team sports as a kid. That's me. That's manifestation of my professional life as a result of the things that I love. And that's what you have to do in your life. Okay. And you got to relax. Like Mel Brooks says, relax. We look relaxed, don't we? You look very relaxed. But you're not getting out of this thing alive, so you better enjoy yourself. Drink whiskey. Yeah. Well, for what it's worth, you have definitely embodied those principles in mind. with you. I'm super excited that we were able to get you in here and honestly really excited for what your next act is as well. And you took my fashion and haircut shots pretty well. It's a sign that you

guys have some personal resilience. Well, I appreciate you coming in. Thanks so much. Thank you. In the room where it happens, Anthony Scaramucci. Thank you. Thank you guys. All right. That was awesome. Thank you so much. Seriously. This is great. You're the man. Hell of a discussion, man. mind blown. Yeah. I love him, honestly.

I know he's gotten a bad rep for some of the stuff. Trump administration and his experience there, but man, he's a great guy. He dropped knowledge. Tons of interesting insights. What were your big takeaways? What was the one big thing you took away from that conversation? A few. I can't give you one.

Well, hit me with your first one. I mean, top of mind is how important it is when you fall down to get back up and how important that mindset is. And he talked a lot about that. I think it's just, it's okay. You know, we talked about that actually in the beginning with it, you know, some of our memes, right? Like falling that, you know, if you're going to walk, you're going to fall. He hit me different with that Super Bowl thing. That was good.

Yeah. I never heard that. You need to be a Super Bowl and you need to be able to bounce off things. I love that. I, you know, for me, the one big takeaway I had was that you just can't do it alone. He referenced it in the context of the World's Fair, actually, like bringing it back to our earlier conversation. If you're going to go and do something really ambitious, you cannot do it alone. And I think that's such a powerful framework for thinking about starting something

because the reality with anything, when you're going and doing something big, you just need to have people you can count on. You need to reach out to people, collaborate with different people, et cetera. And so my call to action, like when we think about this community and what we're building, we have all these people that are coming together all ambitious, all want to learn, all want to go do things. We should collaborate with each other. We should be in the community, talking to each other, interacting.

We'll be there to do that alongside you guys. It's an amazing, powerful thing when we can bring each other up, raise each other up, and work together to get shit done. Yeah, and I think the beauty about the internet, like he was talking about the 80s, right? You had to, like, be physically in a place, right? And now it's just like you don't, you know. Go on your iPhone, hop into the Discord, hop on Twitter, meet people, do good things. and good things will happen to you.

And it just compounds. He talked about the karma thing and just continuing to help people raise other people up and the benefit that that creates for you. And we're creating a platform for that. And what I hope we do with this community is continue to build a place where you can do that, where you can help each other out,

where you can look out for one another, where you can support one another, connect someone with someone else. It might not be you that knows the specific thing. But if they have an idea and you know someone that might know something about it, help each other out, connect them. We're happy to do it, reach out to us.

But there's something really special here. I'm really glad he said those things. I'm really glad we had the conversation around it. I thought it was a blast. I'm going to do some good things today. That's super fun. Well, cheers, man. Cheers, and cheers to you.

Cheers to you guys. Right. Why do you look so tired? I look so tired because I did not sleep last night. Have you never slept well? Or is this a new thing? It's not that I can't fall asleep. I fall asleep, like, right away.

But I wake up a couple hours later and I'm just sitting in my bed and I look at the ceiling and I can't fall back to sleep and I don't know what to do. So I was literally you. And for the longest time, I was this like hustle culture, bro, sleep when I'm dead, didn't want to sleep, didn't care about my sleep. And then I honestly, I started reading more of the research and realizing how impactful sleep is to your longevity, to your health, all of these other things. And as part of that, I found 8Sleep, which has completely revolutionized the way I sleep. I've heard of 8Sleep. Can you tell me more about it? Think of it as like the future of sleep. All of these mattress companies have created these mattresses.

They're just stock. They're stock mattresses. Eight Sleep is technology plus sleep combined. So the whole product is built around optimizing the temperature that you sleep at. And so you've read about sleeping cold is the key to sleeping. And it's not quite true. Everyone has a different optimal sleep temperature. changes throughout the night, which is the crazy part about it. So you might need really cold to

fall asleep, and then you might need it to be a little bit warmer to keep you asleep. And the eight sleep actually transitions your temperature through the night to keep you at the optimal sleep temperature at any point during the night. It keeps you asleep. It helps you fall asleep faster. And I actually, since I started using it, have been sleeping better and feeling so much more energized during the day as a result. Sounds like I need an eight sleep. I think everyone needs an eight sleep. So if you're tuning in right now and you want to try out the eight, sleep to completely change the way you sleep, rest, recover so that you're ready to take on all of life's challenges. Check out 8Sleep.com slash where it happens to get a discount on your first

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