The Startup Ideas Podcast - Jev is HERE. How to use it

Starting point is 00:00:00 Jev is here and it's a big deal. It was created by Diogo Almeida. Yes, that's the same guy whose research built Chatchip-T. Now, it's such a big deal because it's a whole new way to do AI. So I brought on my friend Ryan, who's on the founding team of OpenCode, to just come on and clearly explain what Jev is, what are some insane use cases, and break down some startup ideas that are now unlocked. As of publishing this, Jev is invite only, but good news.

Starting point is 00:00:30 By the end of the episode, you're going to see how you can get access today. So you're going to want to like, comment, and subscribe right now so your algorithm knows to bring you content like this to get your creative juices flowing in the future. Happy Jeff Day, and I'll see you at the end of the episode. Ryan Vogel, welcome to the pod by the end of the episode. What are people going to learn? We're going to learn about a new type of AI, a type of AI that we haven't really seen before. But I think it's good. It's Jev.

Starting point is 00:01:07 And people are ready for this new type of classifier AI because we've been so used to just learning and using these LLMs, which are slow. They stream. And I think, as we'll cover today, this AI is fundamentally different in so many different ways with quality, speed, and price that there are so many different usage applications for it that the possibility, are truly endless and it just becomes on the humans again about how creative you can be. Cool. And so I just have a few things I need from you because I haven't used Jev. I want you to give me the simplest possible explanation to Jev. I want you to give me like, you know, three or four insane use cases so that people can walk away from this episode with like productivity, making money, just like, you know, even boring use cases that could become,

Starting point is 00:02:03 you know, $10 million businesses, $100 million businesses. And I just want you to put it all together, wrap it in a bow that people understand, you know, if they stick around to the end, that they'll be able to understand why should they care about it? Can you commit to that, Ryan Vogel? I can. I can. And I'll add one better.

Starting point is 00:02:19 I'll make it entertaining so that way you can actually get excited about it. Because first up, I'm just going to start out with a demo. This is my email. I'm not afraid to share it. I've been working with email. If you know me at all, you know that I love email because it seems unsolved. I mean, like, Greg, how many spam emails do you get every day? Like, there's too many, right?

Starting point is 00:02:42 There's too many. You can't reply to all of them. And it's just so frustrating. And some of the email algorithms that exist are good, but it's not the best. But then some people are trying to like take like traditional AI where it's like they're having like a GPT 5.6 Luna, like kind of read every email and then score it. But that takes time. and it's not like instant.

Starting point is 00:03:03 And it's just like, I wish we could just have something that could like instantly categorize all the emails. So this is that. This is using Jev. And before I run it, I'm going to break down Jev in a super simple example. Jev is a classifier at its truest being,

Starting point is 00:03:20 that's what it is. I won't get into the architecture and stuff like that because honestly, I don't even understand it that well. But essentially, you define an input. Let's say you have this iPhone as an input. right? And that's the input.

Starting point is 00:03:34 And then the output is a schema. So we could have the schema be, what color is the iPhone, is the question almost. And it has blue, orange, red, green, yellow as the output options for that question. And the classifier,

Starting point is 00:03:50 Jeb, then looks at this phone in a text format and says, hmm, what, uh, is this orange? Is it red? It could be red. But then, It says, okay, this is about, I'm pretty confident it's 80% orange, but it could be 10% red or it could be 10% blue, which adds up to 100.

Starting point is 00:04:13 And it's the probabilities of those choices. So it's not just going to be a 100% affirmative, this is orange, this is blue, this is red. It's a, hey, I'm 80% confident that this is orange or this is red. And the best way to illustrate that is with this email example. So each one of these rows that you see on the table is a full email object. It's got a subject. It's got a description. It's got a body.

Starting point is 00:04:40 It's got a cinder. All the snazzy email jazz. And what the input is, is that just entire email object. There's no sugar coding or any special treatment. It's just the email object. And we have four outputs. We've got a category, which is an option where basically it can say, is this shopping, work, marketing, finance, security, yada, yada, yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:59 Then we've got a priority, which it can allow to select from, I think, five different options where it's like low priority, medium, high, important, or urgent, which is like, oh, no, you have a missed credit card payment or something like that. That's obviously urgent. You want to be able to nail that right on the head as soon as that comes in. And then we have a spam score. This is what I was talking about with those percentages. Obviously, not every email is going to be a true or false when it comes to spam. It's going to be a percentage. It's a range, if you will. So it's like, Some emails are more spammy, like this Kickstarter one. It's obviously trying to sell me a bunch of stuff and junk. I don't really care about that. I signed up for that Kickstarter thing like two years ago. Still haven't been able to unsubscribe from the list since. And then we've got some like Mercury things. Okay, this is just like a payment thing.

Starting point is 00:05:46 It's like, okay, Exxon Enterprise, received $22 from Stripe. That doesn't seem spammy. That seems just like it's informative. And it's just informing me that something happened. And then we've got the reply percentage. This is how much does this warrant your reply? So if we go back here, and I'm not going to click on this because this is a real email, but 90% account violation possibility. This is a user saying, hey, my account seems to be violated somehow.

Starting point is 00:06:14 Jev identified, hey, this user seems to be having some trouble. We should probably warrant a response on this. Now, I've already got these all categorized, and there are 1,700 of these emails. And this is where we come back where it's so sad because it just takes so much time to run all of these. And it's probably going to take like 10 hours to do. And then I'm going to have to go through and probably pick out some of the data. And oh, my God, the price is going to be so expensive. And oh, it's done.

Starting point is 00:06:48 Oh, it didn't cost 18 cents or 1,700 emails. That is the power of Jev. I can't explain it any better than that. We had 4.2 million input tokens and 500,000 output tokens. The entire cost was 18 cents for each one of those emails, all categorized, all. I mean, you can see here, they're all categorized. They're all ranked. They're all given that score.

Starting point is 00:07:18 So if you were to imagine, like, let's say, Ryan, what I'm, here's what I'm hearing. I just want to make sure I enter. I have a good mental model for what Jev is. And correct me where I'm wrong, okay? So Jev is basically like an AI decision maker. Yes. So you give it some information. In this case, you're giving it, you know, the content of the email and like a set of possible choices.

Starting point is 00:07:42 Like is it spam or not? Jev's going to go ahead and look at that information and choose an answer. So for example, like is this email spam or urgent or normal? But you can also have it do things like, you know, is this customer likely to buy or unlikely to buy? Right. Exactly. Right. You're almost there.

Starting point is 00:08:03 That's like 90% correct. It makes it, it makes a probability of a decision. Okay. So the difference between it making a decision because a decision would be you, like you submit an API or something like that. And it tells you buy or not to buy. Technically, what happens on the underside is that percentage. So it would be like 83%. by 17% no buy type of thing.

Starting point is 00:08:28 And obviously the answer that is the stronger percentage would win and that would get returned to you. But it's not a 100% decisive action type of thing. Okay. So instead of asking chat, JBT, Claude, whatever, read this email and explain what I should do. The new mental model is use ask Jeff. I mean, you ask Jeff, like, you know, read this email.

Starting point is 00:08:54 and choose a set of action, so like reply or escalate, and then you get like a choice from Jev, and that gives you some sort of confidence score. Is that the way to think about it? It's kind of, so we've been, the LLMs that we know nowadays have, like, corrupted our minds so much

Starting point is 00:09:12 because there's an interesting point you said, you said, ask Jeff. You don't really ask Jeff because Jev isn't a text model. What's really interesting, if you look at the actual spec of Jeb, It doesn't generate any text at all, which you're like, okay, that's kind of weird. It obviously generated text because how did you get the data for this, right? That was defined in the schema.

Starting point is 00:09:34 So let me see if I can pull up a little whiteboard here, a little whiteboard action. Not too good at this. So we've got our schema, right? We'll call it, I don't know. We'll have our email, right? And this will be our email input. And then we'll do a circle for Jeff. Jeff seems like a circle guy.

Starting point is 00:09:53 I would say, Jeff. There's the entertainment you promised. There we go. Yeah, exactly. Jeff seems like a circle guy. That's just the type of guy that Jeff seems like. Okay, maybe a tiny circle. There we go.

Starting point is 00:10:06 Tiny circle, because it's fast. You know, it's fast and cheap. Okay, so we've got our email, and that goes in to Jeff. It doesn't get asked to Jev. It doesn't, you're not asking Jeff, hey, what should I do with this email? It's just an input, like a standard API. and you define a schema up here and we'll have a, we'll have like a simple little schema and be like,

Starting point is 00:10:31 is spam? And that can be a what they call a newel, which is a true false, but it's a scale. So it could be a 1 to 0. Let me format this. Yeah, I told you I wasn't good at whiteboards. I don't know about this.

Starting point is 00:10:45 So it could be a 1 to 0, which means that it could be 0.31. or it could be, I don't know, like, 90. And that's that percentage. So if it were to return is spam 0.90, that would be a 90% chance that it is spam type of thing. So it doesn't give those definitive answers, but you can infer definitive answers from that sort of choice. And then, let me get rid of this. Why are we doing Jason?

Starting point is 00:11:16 And then we could have a choice, like, let's see, category. and that would be like marketing. It could be finance. It could be spam. And it doesn't generate the categories itself. It looks at the categories that you've passed into it as like a model. Because like you pass all of these, this like essentially this output schema in.

Starting point is 00:11:43 And you say, here's the email. Here's the output schema. I need you to generate the answer for me. And it would. A schema is just a fancy word for how a database is organized, right? It's just how the database is organized, but not even the database. It's just how the output is organized. It's just a fancy way, which is why all the developers love it, because they're like,

Starting point is 00:12:03 oh my gosh, it's actually TypeSafe, which is a whole other video on everything like that. But it just means that you can take the output that this Jev model gives you and instantly use it in code. Because like this Newell that it returns is a number. object. It's not like text that is a number or something weird that you would have to do some additional data processing on. It just basically gives you this object, which is the structure of the data. And so like, let's say we pass in this email and we have these two classification categories. So then the model would just evaluate, okay, is this spam? And what's the category? And it would just return the percentage and the category. So it's not exactly like generating text like in a

Starting point is 00:12:48 traditional like LLM like chat GBT. It's not saying, hmm, well, I think this is a spam email from Kickstarter. So I should probably rate it. Nope. It just says category, spam, is spam, 90% type of thing. There's no internal reasoning or anything like that, which is why people are like, well, I don't know if I can trust it because the whole recent development with AI, as you've probably seen, is the models are reasoning, which is basically just saying the

Starting point is 00:13:18 models are speaking out loud to identify possible issues in their sort of thought progression. And Jev doesn't do that at all. Or it might do that, but it might just do it like really fast on the server. We don't really know. But from our point of view, it doesn't reason. It doesn't have any other text output. It just gives you the output. So just shoots it back.

Starting point is 00:13:37 It just gives you a decision. Exactly. That's the way to think about it. That's the way I'm starting to think about it. It's a decision model. And that's what I pointed it out. like right here, like all of these are just decisions. It's not because everyone has started to assimilate AI with LLMs,

Starting point is 00:13:56 which is like that next token prediction where it's a conversational agent. This isn't that at all. This is still AI because it's like machine learning, but it's a decision model strictly. You can't ask it to be like, hey, how are you doing today? Or can you? So I like to think around with these ideas a little bit. bit. And I was like, okay, it's a decision model, right? Well, I'm a decision model. When I'm

Starting point is 00:14:24 typing on my keyboard, I'm making the decision to type each letter. So like if I were to type hello, I'm making the decision to type H-E-L-L-O, which is technically text, but I'm also making the decision for each key. So I'm like, what if I can apply that same principle to Jev? So if we go back to our Excalajal. Whiteboard here, let's say instead of this category, we just have all of the letters, A through Z, right? And each one of those letters is a newel. So the model can basically predict each letter and say, okay, what's the percentage, what's the decision of this letter based on previous letters? So if it types H-E-L, it's like, okay, my next best decision is to type O to complete the word hello. And I didn't know how it would work, but this is how it worked. So this is me asking it the

Starting point is 00:15:18 prompt, what is bigger? A cat or an elephant? And this is all real time, by the way. So it's very fast. But obviously, it's not as trained in these sort of next letter completion stuff. But it's still fun to see because it's just like, this is cool. But it also shows this isn't a traditional type of LLM where it's like you can talk to it and it's a conversation. It's a decision based LLM, which we've kind of learned. So I guess that, I mean, that begs the question around what should I use Jeb for? Especially the person listening to this is someone who wants to build a business, who wants to invest in themselves, who could be a side time job, a side hustle or their own thing. And they see this and they're like, I notice that this is really interesting. I see, like I believe Ryan when I, when I, when I, when I,

Starting point is 00:16:10 I hear him talk. And I could see that this is a glimpse into the future, but I don't know how to use it. Right. And there's something really interesting about this because this is the first model that's been, that can cater to a lot of different applications, which I'll say in a second. But it's also really fast and really cheap. So it's, you don't have this high barrier to entry that we've seen with other AIs where it's like, okay, I've got to dedicate like $1,000 a month to this.

Starting point is 00:16:35 You could dedicate like $5. Like when we got, when our open code team got set up on the. account. We had like a $5 like, I guess like intro credit, I guess on the account. We were able to use that for two days without hitting it. And we were using it like a ton, like all of my demos and everything like that. We were using it. So it's extremely cheap. So you could probably like load 10 bucks on it and be good for like maybe three months. But some cool things that you could probably use with this is I already got my girlfriend working on it because she runs a graphic design agency and she gets a lot of inbound and she needs to know if this inbound is high quality

Starting point is 00:17:14 or just like if it's just maybe like solicitation spam because she has a contact form on her website so she's using jev to essentially say is this a good lead and uh it basically does that same sort of category where it's like is good lead and it ranks that on a percentage so it's like is good lead and it ranks it from one or zero to one so if it's like it's like it's like If you get a 98% lead, that's a pretty high lead. And you're probably going to want to reply to that. But then if you get someone who's like, hmm, yeah, I think I might want graphic design, but I'm not too sure.

Starting point is 00:17:48 They probably don't know what they want. And that would probably require more effort from you as a business owner or her as the graphic designer to sort of feel out that client. So you can use Jev to make a lot of the decisions in your business that you might have to do yourself. So like going through, I love the email example just because it's such an easy fix. That way you can go through all your emails and all your historical emails and be like, are there any leads I missed? Are there any high value clients that I could maybe attack again to see if I can extract more value for them and me? And basically, you can kind of think through your workflow and anything where you're looking at some data. It can be any type of data.

Starting point is 00:18:27 If you're looking at some data and thinking, hmm, I have to make a decision on this. You should probably think about adding Jev at that layer. obviously not for like 100% of interactions and stuff like that should be a very heavy advisory role but jeb is really good because it can make those split second interactions um if you run a business that has a a contact form or like for issue triage um let's say you get a lot of support uh inquiries and someone comes in and ask you and they're like hey i need help with xyz product jev can do instant classification and say okay let's make the decision what product team does this need to get routed to. Let me route it over here. Let me rout it over here. And there's so many

Starting point is 00:19:07 different things where if you say, hmm, this is a decision. Maybe I can use Jeff here. I guarantee you will have good results. And it will be super cheap and fast because it takes around 200 milliseconds per query to Jev, no matter like what the input output structure is. So that is something really shocking too because AI can take like up to like 30 seconds for some things. And you normally have to do like streaming where then you wait for the response to be done and then you've got to like have a listener and it's all this complex stuff but with jeb you can just do like a boom like quick API call and it just works so jeb is basically this you know AI traffic cop so there's information that needs to come in and then jeb is going to decide you know where it should go and what should happen next so jev is

Starting point is 00:19:55 basically going to pump out you know what is this information how important is it what should happen next and it's either going to go to a human being in the case of, you know, your girlfriend's agency where it's like, oh my God, this is a lead that she needs to act on like right now. This is like Coca-Cola. It's a CMO of Coca-Cola. But if it was, you know, the confidence score was lower, but also like, you know, local business in Orlando, maybe it's you automate it or use an LM to do something, draft something up or send something. Or the confidence is so low that you just. ignore it. So am I getting that right? Yeah, that's like spot on where you basically think of anything that you would have to make a decision that would need to be quick and fast and maybe like provide feedback to a user and you can do it with that. So where my brain goes with, you don't know me too well, but like I'm all about like startup ideas. That's what this podcast is about. Oh, me too. My brain is always always thinking the next way to do something like this. So I'm kind of like, oh, wow.

Starting point is 00:21:01 So Jev now exists. How do I find a business with an expensive queue of incoming information? And then just put Jev at the front of that queue. What I mean by that, what do I mean by a queue? I mean like... You've got like a lot of inbound coming in. Exactly. People need stuff from you.

Starting point is 00:21:20 And you need to get them routed to the correct person. Exactly. So something that immediately comes to mind, which would require a little bit of But let's say you run a services aggregation business like a like a SAS level on top of a local a lot of local services stuff in your area and You type in and you say Hey, I need my my driveway power washed right and Jev could take in that information and then it could take in a lot of the input stuff of like all of the other businesses in the area and it could like return percentages of which one would probably be the best

Starting point is 00:21:59 fit for you. So you type in a form and then you get an instant match with a company that's like near you. It could require, it's obviously a little bit more complicated under that, but Jev could do stuff like that where whenever you, you know the forms that you always see when you're trying to sign up for a website and it's like get an instant quote and it's never instant. And it always is like, well, email you by end of day. Then a lot of that stuff can be put into like a classifier and it could genuinely be an instant quote that they could get to say, hey, this is a good match, hey, this isn't a good match. And Jev could be used to do that.

Starting point is 00:22:33 And that's why the speed of Jev is nice, because then that client could see, you're not wasting the client's time, which if that client does become your client in the future, that's an insanely good virtue signals to say, hey, we're not trying to waste your time. We're not trying to waste our time. Let's get this done and work on it together. So what other Jev use cases do you want to show? Let me see. I was messing around with this.

Starting point is 00:22:57 and it doesn't seem to be doing well, but I wanted to see if I could hook Jev up to a Bitcoin signal. So basically every minute it would run and it would have this decision mix right here where it would tell me to buy, hold, or sell. And it does not seem to be doing well, which shows that this model is great, but it does have some regressions.

Starting point is 00:23:17 I would not put this model in front of like your stock portfolio or Bitcoin or anything like that. This is just for like routing or other sort of decisions like that where it doesn't need insane and model intelligence. Like I did a test with this with GPT6 Astra, the OpenAI's latest frontier model. And it did a little bit better than this

Starting point is 00:23:37 because it cross-referenced some news information and everything like that. But it's completely, it's not apples to apples comparisons, apples to oranges, because it's just a different type of model. So that's where it's like, this is something that a classifier and decision maker could be used to do,

Starting point is 00:23:53 but it's not the best in all of the stuff. situations and everything. And I also, let me see if I can find it. Yeah, right here. So I made a little, I made a YouTube video here where everyone who makes content is aware of this issue, where you make content and you make a like a longer form YouTube video or something like that, but you want clips. And the cool part about this is, so this right here, I'm dragging and dropping in a video file. And what this process is going to do, and I'll explain it really quick, is it's going to transcribe the video and get a like word level transcript of it. And then it's going to pass that entire thing into Jev with some different classifier decisions to find the best clips. And we'll get to

Starting point is 00:24:38 see how quickly it works. Paste it in. It prepares audio and scores 17 moments and around like three seconds. And each of these moments are like one of the interesting parts of the video. They're not like the filler text where I'm like, so I'm going to set this up. It's like let's go ahead and watch that. It's flying. It's absolutely flying. We've got 1.1 million tokens, yada, yada, yeah. So it allowed me in this demo to be able to find the best clips that I could publish on short form content. So honestly, and I worked on this for maybe 10 minutes. So if you worked on this and iterated on this to create your own startup with this type of idea, you could probably get pretty far, especially if you combined it with other different AI agent types. So that way, you could have a really good

Starting point is 00:25:20 clipping sort of feel on it. But there's so many different ideas that you can. could come up with this. And honestly, the best way that I've thought about it is if you just think about it for like a night in the morning, you'll be buzzing with ideas like, oh, I could do this. I could do this. I don't know if I already showed this one, but the browser use for browser control with Jev is pretty insane too. I'm going to play this clip right here. This is in real time done by the browser control guys or the browser use guys where this is Jeff controlling this browser to pick a flight from Zurich to London in 7.1 seconds. Let's watch it. This is all real time, by the way. So selecting the dates. And it found a flight in 7.1 seconds. If you asked any other

Starting point is 00:26:09 sort of like browser use AI agent, this probably would have taken a minute, two minutes, even three minutes in the same type of regard. Yeah, that's a big deal. That's a really big deal. If people want to get set up with Jev, how do they do it? So Jeff right now is on a wait list. but by the time this video drops, it might be out in general accessibility. But if you want instant access to it, you can go to the Varsal Gateway and they have Jev available on it right away.

Starting point is 00:26:37 So you can just instantly start testing it out. They've added some stuff into their AI package so you can start messing around with it. But honestly, if you ask your AI agent and drop it, this link and the TypeSafe AI, to say, hey, how can I start experimenting with Jev? You can probably get started right away. And that's a great way to get started too.

Starting point is 00:26:56 Any type of AI agent, you could talk to it about your business and with Jev and say, hey, what sort of workflows do I do on the daily basis that could benefit from a decision maker like Jev? That's a huge tip. I appreciate that. I'll include the link in the show notes, in the description, where you can go in and play around with this. I also include links for where you can follow Ryan. He's got a criminally underfollowed YouTube channel. I think it's like a thousand subs.

Starting point is 00:27:23 I know. It's crazy. So I'll include that as well. Ryan, thank you so much for coming on. You know what I'm doing after this. I'm going to this for sale link. I'm going to play with Jev.

Starting point is 00:27:34 I'm going to start classifying some stuff. Let me caution you, though. It is dangerously, it is dangerously addictive. The amount that once you see the speed and once you see the price, you will just be like,

Starting point is 00:27:47 holy cow. And to all of you guys watching at home are listening, please just try it out. It's so cheap. You won't even notice. It would be like like one, one thousandth of a cent type of thing to test it out. It is so cheap. Please test it out. This is a new

Starting point is 00:28:01 type of AI. If you've ever done any sort of classification or if you just want to build something for your own email or other system, try it out. It's so fun to use. And the experience with it, it's just going to be mind-blowing because I don't think we've seen AI this fast in a long time. All right. Can't wait to play with it. Thanks, everyone, for your time. Ryan, you're a legend. And I'll see you next time. See ya.

The Startup Ideas Podcast - Jev is HERE. How to use it

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