The Steve Dangle Podcast - All Or Nothing: Toronto Maple Leafs Fan Reaction | Episode 2

Episode Date: October 2, 2021

Steve Dangle, Adam Wylde, & Jesse Blake react to episode 2 of Amazon Original, All Or Nothing: Toronto Maple Leafs. Watch the episode here: https://youtu.be/f9kkAZeKMNQ Get a behind-the-scenes look at the 2020-2021 @NHL season with All or Nothing: Toronto Maple Leafs, on Prime Video  Get More Prime Video: Stream Now: http://bit.ly/WatchMorePrimeVideo Facebook: http://bit.ly/PrimeVideoFB Twitter: http://bit.ly/PrimeVideoTW Instagram: http://bit.ly/AmazonPrimeVideoIG All Or Nothing: Toronto Maple Leafs – Official Trailer | Prime Video https://youtu.be/VQXqcILCMPw Visit https://sdpn.ca for merch and more. We've joined The Athletic and you can too! Hit the link to subscribe: https://theathletic.com/sdp Follow us on Twitter:@Steve_Dangle, @AdamWylde, & @JesseBlake Follow us on Instagram:@SteveDangle, @AdamWylde, & @Jesse.Blake Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

the steve dangle podcast with your host steve dangle adam wild and jesse blake episode two of the leafs all or nothing amazon reaction and so so obviously a-o-n-f-r that's not what it's called at all it should be aonfr for sure it rolls right off the tongue you know i sdp so this is episode two and it will talk about episode two of the series um obviously if you haven't seen episode two you might want to watch it first or you can listen to us and then watch it whatever whatever floats your boat doesn't matter but we will have three more episodes of this released uh tomorrow the next day and the day after that just so you know when these things are coming out and let's talk about this so it's obviously the fallout from the leafs and sends

collapse the leafs blow a five to one lead and uh not pretty and not pleasant and all the same reasons that sheldon keith talks about in the first episode yep which continues again and again and again we'll keep coming back to this it's and he says it perfectly in the series we get up and the game should be over but it never is and the one of the first scenes you see actually is um the the two sides of i think what it's like to work for or with however you'd like to characterize it dubas and keep kyle dubas yes bringing ilya mikhail into the into his ugly blue office he's wearing a lovely cardigan again take a shot and uh and ilya mikhail and kyle dubas talking about you know his place on the team and his role and obviously you can tell mikhail wants to score

right he wants to score more he wants to be a part of the offense it's it's it's a reminder it's a reminder that everyone in the nhl is great every like they all were the top scorer in their league right yes like he was he was one of the top scorers on his team i can't remember which one um okay i think it was avant-garde in the k he was one of the top players and that's what earned him a contract and i remember there was talk about remember babcock took him out to breakfast and he took took him to some like bizarre thing and then in rexdale like eggs expectations right next to the practice facility or whatever it's called and uh i've been there it's nice and um you know oh he's gonna play on the top line with matthews and i think it was

kneelander at the time so it's gonna be mckay of matthews kneelander and but then he finds this niche as this sort of third line speedy penalty killer low offense but really responsible guy and what i thought was interesting about that is we recently discussed on our show how he's supposedly requested a trade because of his lack of ice time and then we see this episode and we're clobbered with that exact issue that has obviously been a problem of his for months like months and months now nearly a year yeah because that clip is from what february ish and relatively early remember i said it didn't make sense i'm like why does he want to get traded remember we talked about on the show it's because he's been complaining since february and nothing's really

been done because since then he's still been in and out of the lineup that's your role like come on what's the problem and but he doesn't see it that way no he wants some consistency to put up some numbers he just wants to be every day on the ice and i want you to extrapolate this too because that's just mckay there are 25 26 other guys who roll through this roster um taxi squad and otherwise who all feel the same way i want more ice time i want to score more all of them and it it definitely contextualizes our conversation about him because he asked for a trade after the season and i talked about it as well yeah he's heading into a contract year so he has to score this upcoming year because it's a contract year but no fresh off of signing a two-year contract

worth over three million dollars total it's not a money thing he just wants to score he knows he's contributing he just well i actually i don't know if he does i don't know if he feels that way and I think Kyle's trying to build them up and say, you are contributing. This is the role we want you to play. It was interesting that that's how Kyle context it. You know, he was trying to build them up and to be like, you are doing stuff with this role instead of being like, oh, no, we need you to do more. He was like, you're doing enough.

Like, we like you and just stay comfy in this role. Good cop. Yeah. Good cop. Yes. Then. Two in five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters.

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You gotta try breakfast at A&W At participating A&W locations in Ontario In the middle of periods, and this is man the intensity of playing and coaching and doing whatever in the nhl is crazy so they have a video room that's got more televisions than the back end of a tv studio like if you've ever seen the control of a tv studio there's like 40 televisions and i think the leafs have more can confirm it it's crazy and so they bring them in and and you hear keith say the assistant coach said mckay evan and if and you know between periods you get what 15 minutes to just chill

you know that that's cutting into his chill time number one right his break like his breather right between periods number two if the coach wants to see you it's probably not good what the what caught me about that i'm trying to remember if this was mckay ever not i'm pretty sure it was keith was like walking through and he asked for him and he knew his route so he's like if he's trying to or i thought the implication was maybe i'm just right if he's trying to avoid it no no no no this is the way he walks in you cut him off and bring him to me that's what he said that's really interesting that you picked up on that so he's not getting out of this and all it was was a 10 second meeting you see this i don't want to see this i want to see this that's it over and done

and that's that's why you're not scoring that's why you're not generating offense that's why you don't have the puck so you're seeing two very different views of the situation it's sort of like the austin on defense um conflict from the previous episode mccabe's like i'm being played in this role this is why i'm not generating offense dubas i mean not dubas sorry keith then bust out a tv and he goes this right here this is why you're not generating offense after getting built up and everything oh that's a tough one right oh that's a tough one yes this is the this is the tough thing about being a head coach you're a bad cop all the time you're a bad cop and and it's a first place team right he doesn't need to do this but but keith is in such

a unique position because we all viewed him as good cop when he came in and maybe he was because he was coming into a completely different scenario but their confidence wasn't there right their confidence wasn't there and this this season also begins after his first training camp right as head coach you forget that this this is his first full season it wasn't even a full season right this upcoming season will be his first full camp first full season right how unbelievable is that so now you know we talked about establishing precedence last episode now he's got eight preseason games to do that establish precedence for the season and a camp preceding that and if you were at rookie camp i'm gonna yell at you about this and that and if you're screwing up in the middle of a

game i'm gonna bring you in and curse you out about this and that so now he's bad cop and there's a role like it's bad cop doesn't mean wrong doesn't mean jerk um but now other people have to play the role of good cop dubas has stepped in and been one and i'm sure the assistant coaches uh have as as well you have to i mean if all you're doing is getting criticized they're gonna hate you for it i'm i'm just i'm sitting here waiting until we can talk about dubas's kid oh well that is the next thing obviously there's the drake montage and then there's dubas's kid and i what i loved about that was he's like on the ice and teaching him how to play hockey and also quizzing him on when the least win the and counting the banners yeah oh what year is that

no try again try yeah you didn't get it right leo no cardigan for you this christmas yeah but that's how i'm gonna treat my leo like no to get it right they won in 64 and who scored that who scored the game winner in game six bond that was game seven i'm talking about game six no i'm kidding you've got the right answer i'm in this scenario i'm guessing leo you're berating your child but yes until he gets it right bad cop that's how you learn adam can come in and be good cop if he wants uncle adam uncle jesse can come in too but um and it's heartbreaking because of the way we know the season ended but i liked if we win we get a new banner yeah and i was like oh that's so cute and i wish i didn't know what i know i thought i think it's it's it's a cool

inside look that when you are the gm of the toronto maple leafs you get access to things like professional ice you can you know just hit the ice with your kid with your kid and your family like that that's a cool little perk very cool yeah very cool and i'm glad he takes advantage of that yeah right i think you need to that's the thing right if you're gonna have an office that ugly you should at least be able to use the ice you get something yeah yeah is your office up there uh yeah yeah it's a closet his favorite thing is the banners daddy can't see those from his office can they move one of the banners into the office to make it prettier i think the office is fine

like I don't know what you guys see I'm so uncomfortable also you can only see like half you can only see like half of the office I assume it's ginormous

right okay here's what I'll say we're an independently produced podcast our office is nice than Kyle Dubas' office that's untrue that is very true

that's untrue we don't have a beautiful board with everybody's salary cap on it yeah we should have magnets with everybody put Steve on the fourth line

can we do that zero dollars why don't we do that I think we should do that yeah we should I want to have the roster in front of me i like that we're on to something we could do that yeah we could uh steal it uh now let's steal what i so i want to steal their idea so we get into the freddie

and muzzin injuries right freddie's been struggling with all season and and obviously jake muzzin uh puck to the face uh oh my god which is crazy it's like oh and i forgot about that he just broke a bone in his face i forgot that injury happened too and what was crazy to me and but i'm just i'll let you jump in just a second what's crazy to me about that whole thing is they they show those two and they show the traders talking about it and then they show the injury ward which is nicer than dubas's office and it looks like an emergency room with joe in there with the thing and and wayne and there's a few other guys wayne has a bone stimulator on his wrist yes and i just want to say life i just want to say if you're a regular person and you fracture

your wrist you're not getting the the bone stimulator on your wrist it grows actual bone I wonder how many sports fans have suffered an injury and been like, ah, four to six weeks. No worries. It's not four to six weeks for you. The access to the world-class medical care that these guys have. Because the whole thing about sports is your body. That's literally your job is your body. So that's where all the money is gone.

And it comes up with things like a bone stimulator. Electrify your bones. It blew my mind watching it. And, and honestly, it like, again, these guys are like triaging these hockey injuries. Yeah. Like there's, there's two or three doctors in there and there's seven or eight players. In between periods. Like aggressively injured.

And you gotta be good. You got, because, uh, I've, I've told the story before. Luke Shen has the, the, the cut on the bridge of his nose that we talked about, um, in previous episodes that you need to get on TV, but his keeps opening because when he was in junior, someone stitched him up improperly. properly oh it opens really easily because it was stitched so they can't fix it now i'm sure they could like once he's with a laser it's probably not worth it like like guys with missing teeth yeah and stuff like that remember do you remember dave manson when he played for

the leafs and he could only whisper because he'd been hit with the puck in his larynx and to fix it yeah so he used to do interviews and he'd be talking like this oh i don't remember that at all couldn't speak and so he uh when he was playing with the leafs and he was like a hard hitting defenseman rugged guy right he was an animal so when they i guess what i remember the interview being at the time i think was on hockey night was that um he couldn't get it fixed until his career was over because what if you do it once you can never do it again however they were going to fix it so at that time 20 years ago that would have been the only opportunity he would have had to fix it so he wanted to finish his career so imagine this guy's like whispering for years

so he could play some more hockey and then get his voice back. Holy cow. Isn't that crazy? Crazy. That's unbelievable. Yeah, and I'm surprised you don't know that story because you're like Leafs encyclopedia.

I do now. But yeah, so you see them triaging this and you see how important it is to the team, you know, to have Freddie healthy. And I think we sort of, because later on, we'll get to this, Jack goes on his winning streak. We forgot how precarious

that goaltending situation really was. like freddie would be hurt jack would step in jack would get hurt freddie freddie would return and also no no don't forget hutch hutch during the the edmonton three game winning streak it was three different goalies yes his reputation from the previous season uh is almost unfair at this point like he had i don't know a bad game maybe two this past season he was really good you got a shutout in that three game series with the oilers that was cool yeah like he was there I was actually at the game once when he had a shutout. His first game with the Leafs against Vancouver.

5-0. And everybody stood up and gave him a standing ovation. It was cool. A lot of goalies have come in and had a really good debut with the Leafs. It's tough to play goal here. It really is because a lot is expected of you. Jesse, I'm time checking you. What are we at?

We got like 15 minutes left. Right. Okay. So let's get into the Jimmy Vesey story. Well, did you want to do a little bit more on the Muzzin thing? Oh, sure. Well, I remember. No, I don't.

I'm kidding. first of all it illustrates how nails he is and immediately it brought back memories of roman polak who in a lost season garbage piece of crap nothing to play for a season polak took a puck to the face similarly to uh muzzin i think he uh muzzin actually took a stick but it still broke uh the bone uh polak returns to the game though with this grotesque monstrous face i guess because they're like well yeah it's really swollen but it's not broken he's like all right cool i'll get back out there so but um that that injury was actually debilitating for muzzin in a way because the the fishbowl he had to wear he would lose the puck in his feet yes and that was a that

was i remember a big storyline um just wait till he gets the fishbowl off yeah because you know every mistake he would make you would sort of give him the mulligan of yeah but he cannot see the puck. I also would say too, like, cause these are, you know, it's the edge of a knife when you're playing pro hockey, right? That one little mistake and that's everything. And it's so blown up, right? Like he, you might mishandle the puck once and it's all anybody's talking about. And frankly, teams can capitalize on it like that. That's why it's pro hockey. So, uh, and, and Muzz is not exactly known for being fleet of foot. He's good handler, but he's not, he's not the guy that's going to blow past you on the ice anyway. So anyway, I, I. Two in five Canadians will hear

the words you have cancer that's why every step and dollar raised matters on september 19th join thousands in toronto for the princess margaret cancer foundation walk challenge yourself friends and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research together we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer register today at pmcfwalk.ca And what better way than with a delicious Pret Organic Coffee Starting at just $1 all day Every day now until December 31st

At participating A&W locations in Ontario i want to talk about jimmy vc because this to me is one of the most as much as jimmy vc story didn't play too much of a story into what the leafs did last year i think the jimmy vc story is interesting because of what they show and the most one of the most poignant scenes of the entire documentary for me is is jimmy bc sitting down with dubas and they're talking you know they talk a little bit about throughout the episode while you you know we need you to grab a spot we need you to step up this is you know you're 27 years old and you know he's he's facetiming

his family and stuff like that at the beginning and you get to know the guy a little bit and then and then keith on the ice going i haven't seen it you need a thing can i can i read the quote i wrote it down because uh i thought it was so important keith says we brought you here with a good opportunity and i want you to know it's been very vanilla you gotta find something that's going to be your thing and vc's response was what you're telling me is that you don't know what my game is or you don't like it and i'm gonna be out soon that's the that's one after the other that's his response to his coach telling him that you need a thing and you've been very vanilla i thought The guy who began his season with Tavares and Nylander and scored in the first game.

I think that's it. I think. I don't think it's a great attitude. I was going to say, what a poor attitude. It's, you know, sometimes like we do a lot of talking on the show. And I. It's all we do. Talk show.

It's all we do. You might say that's our job. And I painstakingly in the moment try to get it right. And I spend the whole drive home thinking, did I get it right? and before i go to bed at night i'm like did i get it right and sometimes sometimes i fail and we fail it's going to happen um we say a lot of things about this team and i'm like are we are we extrapolating are we talking about something that's just not there and jimmy vc's whole story with the leafs is something we and this entire fan base nailed nailed he didn't

have a thing what do you do here yeah and and and keith was not asking him to go out and score a thousand goals just do go if you want to be a puck getter go be that guy if you want to just play hard be a play hard guy throw a hit throw a hit in someone's face do something yeah the puck's not always gonna go in you're like yeah yeah the puck's and then i think later in the episode they show him i think it was a game against the canucks and he was with spezza and they clicked and he scored and he's happy because goals are his oxygen right but it's it's empty calorie stuff yeah it's it's always good when you score you but you're not the goal guy on this team yes just because he scored did not mean he found success or his thing and it goes to the theme of the season

And it goes to Keefe's message of establishing an identity. And the team needed to establish a Stanley Cup identity. And all Vesey had to do was establish any identity, and he couldn't do it. He couldn't do it, or didn't want to. And Dubas said a couple of things. He said, you know, we'll get to the scene where we talk about waivers in a second. But one of the things that really stuck out to me is he said, listen, highly touted college free agent. and you want to tell me

you got screwed here and you got screwed there because right, he got traded from the Rangers to Sabres or whatever and new coach takes over with New York and he's all of a sudden

out of favor because remember Jimmy scored close to 20 goals a couple of times, right? 17 twice. Yeah. So he's not, no joke, right?

Nope. But obviously, what Jimmy thinks is that Jimmy got screwed. Yeah. But at the point now you're at three teams, I get one of them

is the Sabres. I get it. But at a certain point, That is pretty tough. You do need to look inward and go dubious said here's your opportunity to write that narrative if you got screwed prove it here that what happened over there is you got screwed and here you're you're going to be successful yeah and he couldn't live up to that his good games were good i had that i had that

twitter bit going be nice to jimmy and then he and then he went on a little bit of a streak and i'm like be nice to jimmy and i kept doing it so i don't maybe maybe this is a situation where we're looking too uh much into or we're taking too much uh from his attitude like you know context is difficult maybe he's like trying to joke with keith in a very awkward situation like maybe he's being realistic i know but i'm saying maybe i'm trying to be maybe guy about that's a reach i'm trying to yeah i i'm trying to be maybe about this um but he needed to establish a thing and he couldn't establish a thing so then they bring him into the office and the only other time i've seen a meeting like this is the uh is the uh is movie money ball where you know they tell

they tell the guy okay you've been traded so what do i do uh that was also fiction yeah well it was fiction but like you know it's supposed to be right but but with this one dubious is looking at him like okay i'm sorry but i gotta put you on waivers it did look difficult for dubious i don't think that's ever easy no matter what happens and and then um and then basically then he's got to tell him hey we're surprised too but you got claimed by vancouver and i think my most the funniest reaction to me in a dark way was shannon going in going really wow okay okay well like we move on all right i was oh you just lost a third line left winger right winger whatever and okay it's sort of like that vancouver huh he's like i got lunch at two yeah i'm also wearing a nice

cardigan today who's that guy it was a jeremy clarkson that oh no anyway yeah yeah it was literally that i mean you gotta you gotta move forward but but think of think of the contrast uh between those conversations between um jimmy vc and ilia mckay of ilia mckay of was a player who was playing well well enough he did make mistakes as a coach pointed out has a role and the gm instills listen you're doing a good job in your role and then there's this other player who they're like you don't do anything so there's a there's one player who is good and doesn't really like his role but at least he plays it well yep then there's this other player who he just never found a niche right and that does happen you know you could that happens in any organization but

it's it's tough to watch because again you're looking at a guy with limited time this is it and uh and so anyway it was fascinating so what's the time check jesse just so i know about seven minutes okay so you know there's that and then i love that they transition from that which is a little dark to william nylander yeah and they sort of introduce him and they're like different dude shows shows it's a masterful thing in television to go from something serious and kind of depressing to comedic relief and for the purposes of this documentary William Nylander's built in like beautiful he's built in you he doesn't even say anything he just throws on a Mona Lisa smile and you're like ah willing like he's just he seems like a fun guy to be

friends with yeah like we talk about this team like they lack so much like last episode we talked about how joe thornton has to be the guy who keeps things loose they it's nice to have more of that willie to me is the year in and year out loose guy everything is loose willie has no bad days no he's the perfect toronto maple leaf the perfect toronto maple leaf he is he's exactly what the Leafs need somebody look affected he's unaffected by everything that goes on in this city like I can't love him enough and and Dubas describing him perfectly like in a way that even I'm sure your uncle would be like all right fair fair enough Kyle brownie points Dubas also being very honest about his play when they were uh they cut to him and he says uh Nylander handled that

puck very carelessly is the exact words he used which is something he does sometimes which is yeah exactly that but that's yeah it's just sometimes the personality comes out on the ice where he's a little loose and a little careless with his game and but he's so needed in this locker room where i assume the majority of the guys they take everything they understand the gravity of the situations and they are influenced that because how could you not be you have a guy who understands it but it doesn't get to him we're we're obviously looking ahead i'm i'm i'm excited to do this but in in terms of character arcs in terms of guys who eventually do get the message nylander had five goals in the playoff five and seven he's a monster so i'm excited to

see over the next two episodes that journey continue yes the the him still not quite getting it and then it eventually sinking into where he's literally philippe's most productive forward 100 by a lot by a lot it's not even by a little by a lot best player on the team in the playoffs um so there's a little bit at the end here about you know jack campbell and there's you know a little bit of an injury thing talks about his injury and then talks about it hints at this guy's pretty cool oh yeah you're gonna like him we'll get back to him the injury the game versus calgary he tears his groin and he says i know what uh torn groin feels like popped it and because i popped it and then he finishes the game and he tells his teammates mid-game hey i tore my groin

but i'm gonna finish that's the things hockey players do i crazy people and that was one thing from the first episode because i was sort of paying attention to what game we're on and that game wasn't in it or at least that moment wasn't in it and i was like oh i wanted to know what happened there but they're isolating uh players individuals right from the the the player stories aren't necessarily chronological what and i was so happy they went back what moment in the season is that because i don't have your brain uh the campbell groin game it's really it was early it was one of his first starts it was like start two or three so it was within that first 10 game window that they highlighted in the first episode i'm not totally sure but i think so oh wow i'm not

totally sure but i think so and that's uh yeah matthew kachuk falls on him i feel oh man i feel the same i feel the same way about it as i did that night he knew what he was doing that wasn't an accident dirty yeah but i mean that's his game and that's he that's why he gets a lot of money for that there's very few players that do that sometimes i wonder when a player says something on the ice and the building's full it's probably pretty hard to hear them um it's difficult to know what it sounds like on the ice unless you're there right like i've never been on the ice in front of a pack stadium those buildings are empty so campbell's going oh i tore my groin and it's loud enough that like he's still shouting a little bit it's going through his

yeah you know he sees he even good chance of flame hears it right they know this guy's got a busted i mean there's someone probably on the bench going hey something's not right with jack let's make a move side to side as much as possible yeah but if you hear him say that you know this this is a vulnerable player right now yeah and these guys are in our division we're trying to make the playoffs we know we're going to see them a bunch more times screw them and also let's not forget what happened in the beginning of the season which they didn't mention in the documentary was jake muslin flipping the cup but the pocket could chuck no i think that was after that game oh was it after that yeah it was it was but it didn't it didn't uh make that that so so that part i'm like

man no wonder they hated us that was that was more of a flame storyline but it would have been nice to get Muzzin's perspective? Like, the audio thing, I was wondering that I had that exact same thought because of how many scenes they had of Keef just yelling on the bench.

I know he's mic'd up for the show, but how clearly he's heard. And I was like, we've sat, all three of us have sat in between the benches there. And I've never, I don't sit there and be like, oh yeah, Keef's yelling all game.

But literally all game, he's yelling stuff. And I guess because of the empty arenas, you can hear just him loud and clear, he's mic'd up. But I wonder how that would change going into this season, you know, because you're not hearing all of this conversation happening. There was a scene at some point.

I can't remember when, but the team is skating through the neutral zone and Keefe is barking to do something. And if you're the other team and the building's empty, like, how do you not just adjust to exactly what he just said? Right. Because you can hear it. But what I'm also. And if you're in row one at Scotiabank, you can hear all that. I'm also laughing at the fact that I've sat between the benches more than once. i never heard a player say a single thing that's how soundproof it is but at a playoff game i once

yelled at the bruins so loud that half the bench turned around right that's how loud i am so i give her lastly before the episode ends and again foreshadow big time foreshadow keith with the quote of the episode i'm not sure the teams believe we are what we think we are which was quoted uh several times throughout the year leading up to the playoffs remember there was that anonymous player i'm not impressed yeah yeah not and and you know this there's good team has major flaws they're first in the division but nobody around the league is scared of the toronto maples and even it was tough even if he believed in their progress um which it doesn't sound like he did as the head coach it's you can't uh keep your foot on the gas for for the

players if you don't keep it on yourself yeah so that's him constantly reminding himself there's work to do here hey the access we have to keep is so good it's crazy it's crazy it's the best part of it so far can i the one thing i'll say as a fan is that it's nice that they knew that's the one thing i was validated i got solace in that too it goes back to to what i was saying i'm like am i seeing this wrong and all i'm getting from this documentary so far is we're right yeah yeah we nailed it they're just not going to communicate that to us mid-season which you don't blame them which i get like i i'm always i always say like i don't know if this is rocket science i think some of it's pretty obvious and so far yes it has been then going into the montreal series when you

were worried all right so tomorrow episode three drops and it will be the reaction to episode three of all or nothing with the toronto maple leafs we call it aonfr on stp no we don't aonfr nope catch it tomorrow terrible episode three ptyo guys on twitter at steve underscore For Dangle, at Adam W-Y-L-D-E. And at Jesse Blake. Connection complete.