The Steve Dangle Podcast - Ask Those Guys | December 19, 2025

Starting point is 00:00:00 So a quick programming note, we are going to be taking some time off on these these holidays, but you're still going to get all the Steve Dangle podcast are used to Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Plus VIPs. Oh, it's good, right? That's so much content. When are we shooting all that? Well, we've done it. Oh, you see. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:00:16 Apologies to anybody who's been getting their Steve Dangle podcast a little later in the evenings because we've been banking a lot of episodes for the next couple of weeks. So you're going to be getting content over the next couple of weeks because we did that that recordings beforehand. and live streams will still be taking place so be on the lookout for those too not maybe as many as you're used to but we do need a little bit of time because when we get back it's going to be january and then it's going to be olympics and then it's going to be trade deadline and playoffs baby it's going to be a roller coaster so we hope that you and your family have an amazing holiday and enjoy the show sometimes life throws your curveballs and you don't have time to get to them and that's where task rabbit comes in and i think you should check this out because here's

Starting point is 00:00:55 deal one of the things one of the weird quirks about my condo building is that they use my floor to repel down and clean all the windows but they never clean my windows oh and they're way around on that it's like well it's a patio window you can do that yourself and i'm like well hang on a second what if i don't want to i don't have the stuff because you gotta have that scraper thing and the and the washer thing chemicals you gotta have the right chemicals see what i'm saying And that's why I used TaskRabbit and I employed a tasker. Here's the thing. TaskRabbit connects you with taskers in your area for furniture assembly, home repairs,

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Starting point is 00:02:03 Planning a vacation for the new year? Well, good thing you got Saley You don't have to worry about roaming fees And your data's encrypted How about that? How about that? It's so great Saley's awesome

Starting point is 00:02:12 Jesse used it last year on a vacation I did It's really cool And it's really easy to use Even a dummy like me you can figure out how to use the saley app some countries you go to there's like those weird sip like all those sim stands those sim card stands you can go to don't do that don't do that it's already in your phone like just download yeah i don't know the saley app don't just hand

Starting point is 00:02:32 over your passport no i'll give it to the sketchy guy on the street yeah no he's he's totally he means well uh yeah no definitely use sailing here's the thing there is global and regional plans so wherever you're going even if you're hopping around like our very own maddie who loves to travel. She doesn't just stay in one place though. She's like, you know what? If I could go to one place, I could go to 40. So I'm going to choose 40. Why not? That's what you do. And avoid scams like we said because

Starting point is 00:02:56 it's backed by Nord Security which is pretty sweet too. Go to sailey.com slash dangle. It's S-A-I-L-Y dot com slash dangle to get your plans and get it all hooked up right now. S-D-P-P The Steve Dangle Podcast with your hosts, Steve Dangle, Adam Wilde, and Jesse Blake.

Starting point is 00:03:21 Oh, what's this I'm holding? That would be the Connor McDavid Trophy for the OHL Top Prospects game, which is coming up. And by the way, it's awarded to the players of the game. Last year's players. Let me just. We had Jake O'Brien. I'm just screwing with Adam. You know Jake O'Brien and Cameron Reed.

Starting point is 00:03:38 Jake O'Brien, Bradford Bulldogs, Cameron Reed, Kitchener Rangers. Can I cosplay Steve's career? Oh, yeah. Okay. Steve, I'm going to give you the trophy as if you won it this year for your outstanding performance, okay? Okay. Let me get my coffee mug out of the way so we don't do this.

Starting point is 00:03:52 Okay. Got it. Got it. All right. Here, I'm talking to my boys. Yeah. Yeah. And you got to skate over to me.

Starting point is 00:03:59 I'm the commish. Skate over. Yeah, skate over. All right. This year's 2026 Connor McDavid 97 Award, awarded annually to the players of the game of the Connor McDavid OHL Top Prospects game. Steve Dangle!

Starting point is 00:04:17 Yeah! By the way, we are actually holding the real trophy. It's substantial. The OHL gave us the real trophy. They were like, here, you keep this for a bit and show it off on the show. And so that's what we're doing. And by the way... Adam, you're lying. What? We have it because

Starting point is 00:04:33 Steve won it during his OHL career. Steve won it. Yeah, yeah. It's time with it. That's why. You know what? Right. You're right. Anyway, long story short, the OHL Top Prospects Showcase, that's U16 and obviously the OHL

Starting point is 00:04:50 Prospects game itself, presented by Enbridge Gas, takes place Wednesday, January 14th. And we will be broadcasting at Miskin, well, it'll be a Miskin Law Community Complex in Peterborough. We're going to be there on the 13th and the 14th, doing some interviews, talking to players. Tickets are available. I think tickets are basically sold out at this point, but there are some secondary market things. Keep it going.

Starting point is 00:05:11 But yeah, we're going to be there and we want to see you in Peterborough. So we could be Peter bros together. Yeah. You know, you know, I don't think a ton of people with gray hair have won this. No, I don't think so either. You would be the first and good for you. Yeah. You know, I'd be for you.

Starting point is 00:05:24 I'm a, I'm groundbreaking. Yeah. I'm a trendsetter. Anyway, that's the, that it's unbelievable that that trophy is in this office. I can't believe it. Like, it's just weird that we're here, but here we are. So if you're a fan of the OHL, come see us on the 13th and 14th of January in 2026, which is not that far away gentlemen it's not am i making people nervous oh i'm not gonna drop it

Starting point is 00:05:47 you might be all right let me bring it over here so you don't break here you want yeah no because you know i figured i figured starting the show i figured to start the show with something fun would be good because i feel like we're in a we're in a tough spot we're in a tough spot not really and uh the tough spot is um what do you say at this point right see when a team i know exactly when the team is bad for a while you can sort of have fun with it that's sort of what we did with the beginning of this show is like the leafs had not made the playoffs except for the one and out against boston uh it had been like one time uh in you know 12 13 years when we started of the show right and so you know then they finally get smart get some good draft picks

Starting point is 00:06:39 and then one year one year they tank on purpose you have to remember the Toronto Maple Leafs came together Nylander was a year they didn't mean to be bad and were Marner was a year they didn't mean to be bad yeah and then Matthews they were like okay we're gonna be bad and then they got matthews right and so i just want to caution anyone who really feels this morning like a rebuild is on the books i just hope you are prepared for what you're wishing for uh i'm not asking for a rebuild i know you're not i'm just saying that most people in my stream last night were uh they're not they don't have license to have a rebuild well we're not getting into that yet yeah we're getting into the quote heard around the world now i told you guys earlier this week

Starting point is 00:07:24 that I felt that Craig Berube had lost the room. And I think Craig Berube confirmed last night in Washington that he has, in fact, lost the room. The quote is small in words, big in meaning, and we're going to break it down. Let's have a listen. And to me, they played with more passion than we did tonight. I mean, that's what it boils down to.

Starting point is 00:07:47 It looked to me like they had way more urgency in their game. More passion in their game. That's the difference. How do you explain that, considering where you are at? Ask those guys, not me. Pause. That's it, right there. Ask those guys, not me.

Starting point is 00:08:08 I nailed it. Like, I talked about, like, oh, yeah, like when Craig Berube did the one shot on net one scream, and I was like, that's the moment he stopped being the Leafs head coach. right um and there was something else i can't even remember what it was oh i called him a liar remember he's like oh yeah i thought we played all right and no it's outside of the first few minutes and no he's lying he doesn't think this and like you know justin fisher our social lead said something i thought brilliant uh you know just before the show began i don't think bad

Starting point is 00:08:53 coaches win the stanley cup i think it's pretty rare um but it's over it's over you can't coach her anymore not with this group i was thinking about it last night guys and it felt like you know a relationship where it's like it starts off really good but you know by about the year mark you're like this isn't working the way it should and by about 18 months you guys are broken up there are times when there's chemistry at the beginning and then that chemistry fades for whatever reason and it's over and it doesn't mean that any person is a bad person i'm just talking about the relationship context i'm not talking about the leafs context it just means that hey you're not meant to be long term and i think that's what's happened here i think that it

Starting point is 00:09:36 worked last year uh they won the division they got to the second round yay uh but you know what's gonna be crazy this year this year it didn't work and it's not working and you kind of got to call the ball he's gonna be head coach of the sabers by the end of january oh sure yeah um now there were other quotes and we will get to them but what you saw last night or perhaps what you didn't see because a lot of people just won't watch uh good for you was a four nothing drubbing maddie and i were we did the stream and boy it was pretty sad what was that like like so i i find those games really hard really the um so the oilers game that i did uh this past weekend all i had to tolerate was one bad period and that was hard and i spent the whole 20 minutes going

Starting point is 00:10:32 where did they go where did they go what is it like when they are dawn to dusk hot ass well they basically were on tuesday too yeah right except for the end where i was like man this doesn't change anything how i feel about this no i'll enjoy i will enjoy the win but no not a lot you know what it was you know what made it good uh i have to be honest is um there was a lot of people on the stream sort of commiserating like you feel like you've got a a chance to talk it out with other people who feel the exact same way you do and maybe there's differences of opinion on how to tackle the problem itself and find a solution but at the end of the day the the best part about those streams is that i'm not at home alone i'm at least talking to people we will be

Starting point is 00:11:20 your consolation 100 yeah like it's a community right sure and so i feel like that that for me was what made it good remember i had to do canucks preds playoff games that was horrible right that were those were horrible games that was trial by fire yeah nothing happened but you know at least it was playoffs i guess you're impartial it's playoffs there's stakes yeah What are the stakes? Oh, I don't know. And what's crazy is, I think, coming into this game, Jesse, combined scores in the last two Sabres – or in the Sabres –

Starting point is 00:11:51 combined scores in the last two Capitals games were 10-2 in favor of the other teams. Oh, no. The Capitals have been blown out two games in a row. And so this is a team that was not doing well as it stood. And they came in and just ran the Leafs over. Now – You know who's the best –

Starting point is 00:12:10 Oh, go ahead, Jesse. best troll talking about the capitals coming into the game and then being on a losing streak and then leaf speed up on them best troll of the night last night was on leafs reddit i like perusing leafs reddit every once in a while after tough losses like that top tier rage bait on the internet a dude makes a long post about how the loss was dennis hildeby's fault so there's a fan of another team going let's go so he's like the capitals came in on losing streak this was the one they're gonna get and you needed top-notch goaltending for the Leafs to win this game and Dennis Hildeby wasn't able to provide top-tier goaltending for the Leafs to

Starting point is 00:12:52 win this game and it was like two paragraphs long and just the comments of people going at him and I was like that guy won that guy won last night yeah Leafs Reddit is very good for finding a clip of me where I make a good point and they're like you know what I usually hate this loud mouth fat sack of crap no nothing piece of shit but he was spitting in this one like him he had a really good point

Starting point is 00:13:19 every time there's Steve Dangle and it's in the little square brackets and then you say something and it's like oh he said something really smart and right it's just insults followed by oh this is a good point you can just say good point that's alright that's alright you can just say good point that's alright

Starting point is 00:13:34 you know who had a good line last night that deserves a shout out hat guy yeah hat guy with a tariffs bar yeah about the washington capitals and the tariffs on the goals that's a that's a bar i'll let him know yeah yeah let him know when he gets out of your basement i will uh producer drew uh sent me a text about that this morning and i forgot about the intro of the video because i spent 20 minutes lying on the floor yeah you do a good impression of hat guy could you recreate the bar for us like oh what was there a tariff on goals too it made me chuckle yeah no he's good yeah he's good he's got something going there

Starting point is 00:14:15 he should keep at that uh should should we have him on the show no no no that'd be a disaster no uh friend of the show sid six hero posted this but it was it was readily available in the in the in the um leafs post game on youtube if you wanted to watch it uh But what does a former Stanley Cup champion think about this team and the way they're playing? You know, because here are the quotes that I keep getting, right? So I'm going to pull up Luke Fox's article. Here's what we got.

Starting point is 00:14:48 John Tavares. We weren't really crisp with the puck. Things weren't always clean. And that's where you got to fall back on being a difficult team to play against. And we weren't tough to play against today. William Nylander. We're a bit disconnected. I mean, some stints where we got them, but not good enough.

Starting point is 00:15:03 I mean, a couple of shifts here and there. It's not going to cut it. Austin Matthews. We just made it really easy on them. The neutral zone was a highway for them to get through. I don't know. We just made it easy for them. Who's we?

Starting point is 00:15:14 Well, the whole team. Yeah. I would like to hear what Oliver Ekman Larson had to say. Because Oliver Ekman Larson, former Stanley Cup winner. No. That's where you're wrong. What do you mean? Stanley Cup winner.

Starting point is 00:15:29 Okay, all right. There's no former about it. No, he's the Stanley Cup winner. Forever. He's right. Forever. Okay, fair enough. Forever.

Starting point is 00:15:37 What did the Stanley Cup winner have to say? Jesse Blake. I don't know. Let's hear from OEL. What made the Capitals a difficult challenge for you? I think they were a little bit more desperate than us. Obviously, we got to come out harder. I thought we were pretty flat the whole night.

Starting point is 00:15:59 We didn't really create anything. We gave up a lot of chances, and, yeah, they looked good. How do you explain that they're more desperate when you look at the standings and maybe you guys should be? No, I agree. Totally agree with you. That's what we're talking about. That's what we want to do. But it's one thing to talk about it. It's another thing to do it. and I think that's the hard part right now and that's that's something we need

Starting point is 00:16:29 to figure out I think we I mean it's gonna be nice that you don't have it it's gonna be nights that you don't have to puck play but the compete is gonna be there so that's something that we have to bring every single day and I thought they competed a little bit harder than us today. Why did you power play struggle today i thought we had some good looks but obviously didn't get get the goals get the results it's particularly disappointing that you guys had that momentum drive to finish the game the previous one and it wasn't kind of you weren't able to carry that forward yeah i don't think we deserved better tonight um bar i thought uh

Starting point is 00:17:11 And, yeah, turned too many pucks over. Had to defend a little bit too much. And, yeah, I think the power play is going to have to step up too because it's a big, big part of it, like you talked about. And you don't get any points for looking good sometimes. But it's a start, and I think, yeah, we've got to work. We've got some work to do here. Is that not a leader?

Starting point is 00:17:38 that's such a vet he made like he had like one slight blemish in the whole thing and he went out of his way to interrupt himself in the middle of his next answer to be like actually i have another another thought on the power play and you don't get points for looking good this got like who's more decorated on the leafs roster than oliver eckman larson he's got a really disrespected career and that's because his best years were in arizona and his worst years were in vancouver that's tough that is tough for your reputation but like hockey reference one one of the things like every website does something better than everyone else and hockey reference will tell you what the votes were for individual awards my favorite thing about

Starting point is 00:18:33 their website in his third season in the nhl he was seventh in norris voting 14th 17th 9th and 11th like this guy was in the atmosphere in the orbit of the norris conversation for the prime of his career it went away and it went away fast bad and he gets out of vancouver completely reinvents himself wins a cup and now he's having his best season in 10 years and that's not a guy who it's his first rodeo perfect a plus how often do we get on this show and watch a press conference from a leaf and go a plus never he nailed it and he has license to nail it because he's a leader he's a vet he's decorated and uh he's one of the only guys on this team this season who's pulling his weight and i gotta i gotta say matthews again with the pointing remember in the panthers series

Starting point is 00:19:54 you know too many passengers you know it's okay to say we and when you say we you're like yeah well i'm included in the we you know how much respect he would get from leafs nation if he was just like i have not been up to my standard at all it's scary the idea that matthews is gone he's gone the idea that matthews is gone is our it's our number one fear it's been our number one fear since october 2016 he scored four goals and we thought please let nothing ever take the the greatest gift in this franchise's history away from us i want he's gone i want to bring you back to june 11th 2021 and i'm just going to quote it we don't need to run the clip i did send it to jesse but it's just it you know it's two minutes long i

Starting point is 00:20:57 don't know when we're going to get to it who said i'm going into my ninth year next year and i haven't won shit nathan big giant balls mckinnon what happened he won a cup in short order yeah because that's who nathan mckinnon is he's a dog and and if you notice in his press conference in that particular press conference or even the one guys when nathan mckinnon and the colorado avalanche were eliminated in game seven by the dallas stars this year um like earlier this year in the spring he's his eyes are red he's in tears and he just said like again i don't know what we're gonna do and i know now we know what what they're gonna do yeah they're gonna take it out on the entire league they're gonna be pissed about it all summer and then yeah and what's

Starting point is 00:21:51 amazing is if we got one press conference like that from any one of these guys no people would be like i can i can relate to that you know i hear the austin words sure not really just made it really easy on easy for them um neutral zone was you know a highway for them to get through and And, yeah, just, I don't know, we just made it so easy for them. And they're obviously a skilled team, a lot of talent, a lot of speed. And, you know, I don't think we put enough stress on them on both sides of the puck. What has to change on the play?

Starting point is 00:22:21 Well, I mean, just execution. Like, you know, it's like one, two passes, and then, like, the next one's, you know, not a good one or it's just not being executed. And, you know, I thought we had some good progress, and then tonight was definitely a step back in that regard just as far as execution goes opportunities you can really get much going in that regard especially in a game where there's not much offensively going on why was it difficult for your line

Starting point is 00:22:46 in particular to get things going thank you good question i don't know i mean it's just uh you know it's stuff to kind of pinpoint what that was i mean i think it was a number of different things um you know as a team i just don't think we competed hard enough uh they won more battles And like I said, we just didn't make it hard on them. Didn't win puck battles, didn't forecheck well. You know, a team that has that amount of skill that, you know, plays a lot of east-west like that, it's going to be an easy night for them when you can't break up plays or you're not on top of people with speed.

Starting point is 00:23:26 Just really uninspiring and disheartening. And the question about, like, you know, what happened to your line or what was up with your line tonight, nailed it. I think the bottom six last night and lately has been fine. Fine. Wah and Joshua, every time they're on the ice, something happens. Lawton and Lorenz, same thing. And whoever they put with them.

Starting point is 00:23:52 There was that one Bobby McMahon play where he just torched, sort of forgot he was out there. I don't know what that was. But he did have another one where he used his blazing speed finally. oh he's got like for the first half of the game he was one of the only Leafs who vaguely had a chance right the Lawton Lawrence and whoever is with them line doesn't seem to matter could be Domi Robertson Yarncroke usually does pretty well I know they were on for a goal against last night but they usually do pretty well on on D I think it's a talent issue um it's a decor with flaws

Starting point is 00:24:29 but those flaws are exacerbated by they're missing two-thirds of the right side like that'll kill you right um the top six is hog shit hog shit like like Matthews is getting a lot of criticism and it's deserved because he's a husk of his former self and at the end of the day he's the captain I would scratch William Nylander for the next game I would what the fuck are you doing out there there was one like he hates the puck I think he hates it I don't know if they got into an argument he insulted his family or what he hates the hockey puck he hates it cannot stand the damn thing I don't know what he's going through I don't know if he's just very nakedly trying to get his coach fired which is what I'm pretty sure it is um or if he's just not interested

Starting point is 00:25:23 in the thing he's paid 11 and a half million dollars to do right now I would not put him in the lineup for my pro hockey team's next pro hockey game because he's that awful and irrelevant um it's the top six like you know Tavares you know we give a pass to because he took the huge discount but the hot start that's gone right nice he got the big contract he's been cold lately and there's two guys who i think james myrtle had the stat they haven't gotten a power play point in 20 games that's so insane they're on the top unit and like that's one thing that savard and berube have to wear what the fuck why is the top unit stayed nearly identical while you're in free fall actually you're not in free fall you're at rest by the way it's like an

Starting point is 00:26:22 The acorn being described as being in free fall once it falls off a tree and lands in the grass. It's not going to go further below. The Myrtle thing you're talking about? Yeah. It's incredible. It says last power play. Leafs.

Starting point is 00:26:37 No, you got it. Leafs power play is down to 10% over the last 16 games. Unbelievably awful. PP production in that span. William Nylander has three points, one goal. Morgan Rielly has two points. Austin Matthews has two goals, two points. Max Domi has one assist, no goals.

Starting point is 00:27:00 Nick Waugh has got one goal. Michelli has one assist. Bobby McMahon has one assist. Those are the only seven. Michelli hasn't played in nine games. Michelli hasn't played ever. Where's Tavares? And Nye.

Starting point is 00:27:18 Where's Nye's? they're not they're not on this list oh my god that's incredible okay like listen macelli has been not very good he has not been scratched for nine straight games bad he has not he's been an offensively capable player all season he has but anyway that's macelli and we're getting into the weeds here um like i'm i'm kind of like there isn't the hellfire and brimstone that there is because when when you see me screaming and angry and full of full of fire piss and vinegar piss and vinegar oh that's such a good dad one piss and vinegar i uh am fighting to protect something i'm begging i'm pleading and it's like i'm and now i just feel like that would be asking for

Starting point is 00:28:23 something that is uh no longer available um it's over um this coach is no longer the coach of this team uh his staff i think chunks of it are gonna go as well i'm perfectly open to a gm change um and i don't know what that changes but the idea of sitting here and doing nothing is completely infuriating like i've heard things about like the pro scouting staff just being at a loss you are the most expensive staff money can buy what are you talking about the coach is going uh i don't know ask those guys what do you mean what are you talking about the ford f-150 tremor oh you've heard us talk about it it's design its features create a fantastic foundation but accessories are what turn it

Starting point is 00:29:33 into a mobile adventure base if heated seats oh hell yeah do they keep your butt nice and even has cooling seats jesse oh my goodness that to me is the future oh no i'm jealous imagine a sweaty guy like me in my f-150 in the summer put those cooling seats on and we know you you would use that in the winter i'm sure they were on this morning well you know what's cool is that yeah first of all uh when you use the ford connect app you can turn on your car and warm it up from inside your house or cool it down or cool it down and you don't have to tell it when to cool down it knows wow yes so unlike those really like roasting hot crazy days in the summertime you could turn it on the ac will be on it'll be nice and cool in the cab when you get in wow how

Starting point is 00:30:21 beautiful is that now the future purpose built to navigate any environment from forest trails to the 401 it doesn't really matter unique off-road tuned suspensions deliver a confident and comfortable ride and you know whether you're stuck behind a snowplow uh or you're stuck in traffic like steve was again this morning which was fun i'm sure you loved that didn't you love that uh there's so much to love about a ford f-150 tremor and you should build yours i mean it is the holidays why not give the gift of yourself to ford sorry give forward to yourself that's what i meant they got it yeah you get the idea what's the website or.ca slash f-150 build yours right now oh look at this you know maybe to drown your sorrows you start cheering for another sport

Starting point is 00:31:05 there's steve dangle maybe it's that gigantic soccer tournament that's happening right around the end of the playoffs oh you know next next year next summer oh maybe you got a specific country maybe well listen jesse what does steve always say my wife has one opinion i have another so we compromise and do what she wants yes so let's say steve has to cheer for team scotland next year for the big tournament. Skyscanner can get you at all those Scottish games, Steve. Oh, thank goodness.

Starting point is 00:31:34 And we still don't even know if Italy is going to make it, although it looks like they will. It looks like they will. No, they still got to win. They still got to win. Don't count your wins before they hatch. That's right.

Starting point is 00:31:43 No hatching any wins. Skyscanner's got the Football Flight Finder. It's skyscanner.ca slash football dash flight dash finder. Now, Skyscanner's great for just finding great flights at a great price, right? But you can follow your favorite team

Starting point is 00:31:57 and your favorite country at the big tournament next summer using skyscanner.ca slash football dash flight dash finder. Book your flights now, set alerts, and book them later. Whatever works for you, it's on your schedule with Skyscanner. Skyscanner. It's Bonnie. I think one thing I'm going to, and you mentioned it, I think the thing that we should start with is the power play, which has already been referenced.

Starting point is 00:32:21 And let me add one more thing. You have no assets to do trades. okay well do me a favor put on the hot dog costume and we're all gonna try to find the guy who did this yeah so the power play is interesting because um for the second season running the power play is bad through the first 30 games uh-huh and you know you can get away with that one season because hey the power play rebounded and actually they were really good and they turned it on towards the end of the season and that's great okay you can't do that two years in a row i might be wrong last year their power play was bad i don't remember it being close to

Starting point is 00:33:03 this well no it wasn't 31st in the league which is what it is this morning at 14.1 i can't believe they're not decidedly 32nd well and and no calgary exists calgary that's insane the calgary is an nhl team they're gonna be below everybody else like it's crazy to me that any team is capable of being worse than this it's crazy and toronto according to travis yost is tied with calgary for dead last at 4.7 goals per 60 on the power play this year so they're as bad as calgary and flames fans are like oh man you're as bad as us just turn it down well so this is where i so i noticed last night a little bit where baruba is like oh my big message is i'm going to start the second power play unit on the fourth power play of the game that we've gotten and you know at a

Starting point is 00:33:51 certain point he's got to look down the bench at the guy he's friends with who he brought from st louis and say you're not the guy pal that's where the accountability starts mike van ryan too sure whatever i i but but the power play guy is mark savart yes yeah no i'm just i'm trying to set up for everyone the implications of berube getting fired yeah yeah but let's do other guys probably Let's just talk about other sports for a second here. Sure. Where they fire offensive defensive coordinators. All the time.

Starting point is 00:34:19 All the time. This guy can't do it. This guy can't do it. You've got all the proof. You've got over $50 million on the first power play unit. And two of the guys have not had a power play point in 20 games. I don't know what you need to switch that up. Also, the best defenseman on the team is not on the first unit.

Starting point is 00:34:41 Befuddling. um like it's oliver ekman larson is not on the first power play unit are you kidding me like it's and and this is where it all sort of starts because if you get a couple power play goals you're in that game how many uh what were they over five over four or over five over five yeah how many games this season have they gotten five power play opportunities zero zero games i don't think that's ever happened and they completely blew it completely blew it yeah well you know we've talked about on the show it's difficult for me right like i know savvy a little bit and uh it's unjustifiable it's unjustifiable i can't do it how how can you possibly they're 31st

Starting point is 00:35:28 tied with the team he came from yeah uh how how with austin matthews who is still capable of some things william nylander matthew nye's john tavaris and whoever else you want to put there how are you getting 4.7 what was it 4.7 goals per 60 okay it's unjustifiable Yeah. And, you know, I've been saying on the show, like, how often do you see an assistant coach fired by themselves midseason? It is rare, but it does happen. In other sports, it happens all the time. Yeah. Well, it happens in hockey, too. It's just it's so rare that we forget about it. And like the Habs did it. But I think it was like right before the season began a few years ago. and one of the most recent teams to do it and i wasn't shocked at all i was like man who did it

Starting point is 00:36:31 oh them that makes sense the minnesota wild they did it i think it was 2022 and i'm like god that makes sense just a team that never whines and complains about well we can't do it we couldn't possibly do it bill garren there's a reason they talk about him like he's randy march trying to get weed that guy slams it on the table and the windshield of your car shatters with the Kaprizov contract and trading for Quinn Hughes and the unfathomable psychosis of buying out Zach Parise and Ryan Suter at the same time for the cap penalty that the Wild had to endure for years.

Starting point is 00:37:26 Three years. Three years of $15 million against the cap. That's crazy. And what does he have to show for it? he's got he's able to to afford the risk of going out and spending a ton of his future on Quinn Hughes because he's done such a good job drafting he's able to spend a bajillion dollars on Kirill Kaprizov because he's done such a good job on contracts if you are a fan of anyone really and you just need a good cry like you just need to get it out of you go and look at Boldy and

Starting point is 00:38:04 fabers contracts oh my god and the reason they have the cap space to do these things is because of the sacrifice that was made a few years ago they have two potentially top 10 goalies in the nhl like two of the best young players and i know i know what we're talking about like i'm getting a little sidetracked i know what we're talking about is the idea of firing an assistant coach I am routinely saddened and disheartened by my team can't do this or won't do this. The only team that would even think about doing this is followed by a good team. Vegas, Minnesota, a few of the ruthless teams. Florida is a ruthless team.

Starting point is 00:38:58 Tampa can be ruthless. Here's what I want to say. If your plan is to just not do anything, you could have hired me and I would have cost a lot less. One of the things that I've been thinking about, guys, and I wanted to get your thoughts on this, is, you know, whatever Berube's time in Toronto was going to be, it seems like the Mark Savard hire is going to sink him. It seems like that decision above any others is the decision that will end Berube's time in Toronto. And I think we're past the point now where you're looking at firing an assistant coach. I think you're blowing the staff out. This is not a, oh, well, you know what, we'll fire Savard and things will turn around.

Starting point is 00:39:41 Because what's happened on the power play is sort of the most microscopic, you know, that's the thing the flashlight's on, right? Or the spotlight. yeah but when you look at the rest of the game that they are playing it's a piece of the bigger shittier pie and the goaltending is picked up the defense has i mean somewhat improved from at least the beginning of the season and at least they're getting offense from their defense yep their bottom six has picked up their pk has picked up the power play and top six suck well the top six and the power player made of the same dudes and the devil's advocate there is well if those guys suck then the whole pie turns to shit i guess but you can't have the 31st ranked power play you

Starting point is 00:40:34 can't jesse do you think that there's any chance the leafs go all right half measure this we flip out savard for whoever the fuck and we keep going with the brew bay team because what i am seeing and i think steve mentioned this on the lfr i'm seeing a team that is telegraphing to management every night we don't want to play for this guy and i'm not talking about savard i'm talking about berube the savard thing he shouldn't have ever gotten the job and i think it's a it's a good point that if you look at savard and the way the tenure has gone you gotta then question the decision making of the people who hired him and then keep him in that that position because brube loves savar because they work together in st louis in the 1920 season where the blues had the

Starting point is 00:41:21 third best power play so he's like oh he's great in power play he goes to calgary for the 23 24 season after coaching the windsor spitfires and they have the 19th best power play not good not good comes to toronto it's a mess the beginning of year last year they pick up they're in and around where they should be last year by the end of it and then this year it's a disaster but you look at mark savard and what he's done like he should have never been in this position other than like berube really liked him from five years previous and the game's changing so fast what the what he's asking these players to do clearly isn't working in this world's nhl that might have worked in five years ago's nhl with the 1920 blues and that was pre-covid it's another yeah

Starting point is 00:42:11 That season was ended by COVID and then the bubble and all that. Yeah. It's another disappointment of the Leafs where, like, again, you're a multi-billion dollar team. The one place where you are completely unhindered is you can spend as much money as you want on as much staff, scouting, coaching, executives, anything. And who do you hire? the the coach's friends yeah i like you're just some other you're an npc of a team so any any team who doesn't really understand what they're doing is going to be like yeah i'm just going to hire my friends like so you're just listen i want special results for special money

Starting point is 00:43:06 and mlse ownership is getting ripped the fuck off and i mean i i know fans are sick of getting ripped off and it'd be nice if ownership was too but they just got more to blow i guess so just just back on back to the the thing though on the uh the there's clearly a disconnect between the players the front office in Bradshaw Living and Berube and then Berube's staff he thinks Savard's the guy for this they want the players to play a certain way and it's on the power play in particular and it's clearly not working and then as for the game as a whole he's asking the players to play this really dump and chase attack the puck kind of style of hockey that they're not capable of playing because they're not those types of players but Bradshaw Living hasn't brought in players that

Starting point is 00:43:59 can play the brew-based style of hockey and that's where that whole disconnect is is is going in this organization why they're losing so much so it's a matter of where do you want to chop this thing at the knees to fix it do you want to fix it by bringing in a new coach to try and get these collection of players to play a different way or do you say to the gm you need to build a better roster that's going to play more in this style because i don't think i like i look at the roster on paper i've said it a couple times i don't think the talent's there to win the way they're trying to win no i think you're right i think it's a mismatching style yeah he didn't build a good team to win in this way it's an ugly d that's the injuries are a thing you got to take that

Starting point is 00:44:41 into consideration but like even that the forward group is so it's it's so uninspiring you know there aren't the pieces there where i think this team could contend for a stanley cup no chance but those were their goals coming into the season i mean they should though they have enough they do have enough to be in the playoffs they have enough talent i don't think they're playing the right style i don't i don't know if they do they have enough i think they do have they have enough i disagree with you fully on that jesse i appreciate where you're coming from yeah but this team this team is better i will say it until i'm blue in the face this team is better than what they've shown i don't i like i told you i think it's a relationship that's gone sour after 18 months

Starting point is 00:45:20 I don't think there's a fit between players and coach. I look at the what it takes to win in this league and the way you got to play. And I don't know if the talent exists on the roster, if any coach would be able to get this collection of players into that with all of the injuries that they've dealt with for this season, if this team would be anywhere other than a six through 11 team. That's where I'm not looking at like, oh, they're either in the playoffs or not. It's that range of teams. i don't think the collection of the roster on paper and with everything they've gone through

Starting point is 00:45:53 is anything more than that little range of flirting on the playoff line well especially if your best player isn't scoring 70 goals anymore yeah not even 50 dude that's why i don't know how you look at this roster and think oh if they were playing up to their abilities they're a division winner it's not there no not division no i mean i think they could win this division i mean it's Tampa was the division leader a week ago and they've lost seven of nine, right? Like it's,

Starting point is 00:46:19 it's, and the injury bug has bit them too. Like I do, I do think the division's wide open. I don't think it's a good division. Yeah. You're not going to win the Colorado Dallas division, but they don't have one player.

Starting point is 00:46:29 I look at, I'm like, that's the superstar all-star because Austin isn't that anymore. And then the rest of the, like Willie's not trying on three quarters of the ice and JT has been cold for so long. Nice is young and isn't playing like the bulldog. He should be where,

Starting point is 00:46:43 What am I pointing at that's good? The fourth-liner center? I know. Like, oh, man, Lawton's really good. That doesn't win you. What does that win you? It doesn't win you anything. Your fourth-line center is your best player?

Starting point is 00:46:53 It wins someone else the cup is what it does when you trade him. Yeah. And it's like, oh, my God, imagine what you could get for Scott Lawton. You can get, like, a first in Grabenkin. Right. You can double retain on him. Someone's going to get Scott Lawton for less than league min. 500 grand.

Starting point is 00:47:10 750 grand. Something like that. So I think long and short of that, I think everybody's responsible for everything that's gone wrong here. It's Bradshaw Living not building a good roster. The players aren't good enough. Berube doesn't know how to coach these players. And Marc Savard sucks at his job.

Starting point is 00:47:22 Can I show you how deep the rot goes, by the way? Because I'm operating like Berube and his staff are gone. I doubt Lalonde goes just because he's so new. I don't know. But I'm operating under the assumption Berube and his staff are gone. so okay you got to go into the market but people might not necessarily want to sign with you right now or okay so you promote guys from the Marley's how many teams in the AHL have a worse power play percentage than the Marley's probably nobody the answer is six oh okay so it's not quite as bad as

Starting point is 00:48:00 you thought how many teams have fewer power play goals in the AHL than the Marley's I have no idea two they have 11 well i don't think the marlies are going to come up and fix the power play though i that's not what i expect no no no no i'm not saying marley's players i'm like oh you mean coaching yeah no no i i think that that but you know when we talk about what berube and tree who seem to be on the same page in terms of what they want out of the team i think it's pretty clear that it's not going to work with either of them they don't connect on the players that they want they don't like i it's i think it's very clear with what berube is doing with michelle yes that is bradshaw livings one of the bigger signings this offseason like shame on us for thinking that was

Starting point is 00:48:43 a big asset we have no assets why yeah but i have you paid an honest to god asset for matias that's one of the his biggest offseason acquisitions and berube hates that player and doesn't think he should be out there and won't play him there is clearly a disagreement in philosophy amongst who should be on the ice yep like who the organization should have in the organization to play hockey for them so who's over who's gonna who's gonna be the one that's gonna lose their job to then usher in somebody who's connected as a whole in how this organization should be run i i think that's an important question if you want to go even deeper uh the leafs star goalie from last year is in witness protection the best player

Starting point is 00:49:36 in the franchise's history scored 69 goals this is the order of events he scored 69 goals we were told he was fine then we were told he was day-to-day then he's in fuck off europe then he misses a month then he comes back then he's still pretty mid by the end of the season he put together a pretty good season but it wasn't near his usual standard this season begins and we're like here we go and they tell us he's healthy and they tell us he's healthy and he says he's healthy and so he's healthy and it's like oh so you're just bad then yeah you're just bad I think part of it, too, is there's nobody getting him the puck on his line. Okay, there's no one getting him the puck.

Starting point is 00:50:29 What if it's harder to get him the puck? It could be. It could be. But I don't think anybody's getting him the puck. No one's getting him the puck? I mean, we talked about that power play from the previous game last episode. And I'm like, it went from Nyes to Nylander to Riley the entire time. And Matthews didn't touch it.

Starting point is 00:50:46 And, you know, he had the puck 11 seconds for the first two periods. And people are going to say, well, that's on him. That's on him. i'm sorry actually guys that's not because that is austin is not a power play quarterback austin is the guy that you get the ball to as i go as i go back oh you know what i don't feel like passing the ball to michael jordan i don't feel like passing the ball to lebron all right austin well hold on to your socks here's william kneelander instead and he doesn't and he's completely disinterested so like and those two played together for a solid four years oh yeah and

Starting point is 00:51:19 had great results so there's there's the conversation about uh berube and the coaching staff and they definitely can't motivate these guys and they definitely don't listen to them but like also the stars are paid very well and are playing like shit because they are hurt or sick or just bad now we don't know there is nothing to have faith in in the leafs organization at all like here let's all let's all it's christmas hey look at your sweater it's christmas look at the snow behind me it's christmas all right let's all let's have a christmas cheer segment what's your favorite thing about the leafs what's something no it doesn't have to be your favorite what is something they genuinely do well they are top five in the league at this

Starting point is 00:52:16 I love the Toronto Maple Leafs fan base. I think we have the best fan base in the NHL. Oh, I think someone's had a little too much eggnog. Those are the fans. I'm talking about the team. The team has a really good penalty kill. Hey, that's good. And when they're healthy, three good goalies.

Starting point is 00:52:39 Adam, you know what? Someone's not getting a lump of coal in their stocking. Okay, I'll go. At one point, they'll have played their 82nd game and it'll all be over. It's so dark, so bleak. And thank you to Craig Berube for announcing, I can't be the coach of this team anymore, less than 24 hours before the roster freeze.

Starting point is 00:53:10 essentially putting Brad for Living in the unenviable position of firing a guy before Christmas. Well, I mean, he'll still get paid, so it's not the end of the world. Yeah, this isn't exactly like... That's not the same as getting fired and getting... He's not exactly Bob Cratchit, is he? No, he'll be fine.

Starting point is 00:53:29 Yeah, no. This isn't a telecom firing 10,000 people before Christmas and they all don't get paid. Yeah. Or Conestoga College. This is a guy getting millions of dollars and we'll be fine. And we'll probably get hired pretty quickly.

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Starting point is 00:56:17 from the fear of cancer register today at pmcfwalk.ca you know i think i think what i think everyone's still getting present if you're to game plan this you know people were asking in the chat last night i think rightfully so what's the date what's the drop dead date of hey this team doesn't have it december 19th i think this week is the drop dead date for all of us i think we know now now well december the game was last organization 18th you'll notice when people are executives are trying to hang on to their job they'll try to slow play things uh and this is in any industry not just hockey they'll try to slow play things and hope that it works out because they are out of answers so you know they've there's nothing to trade there's nothing to do what will happen i'm

Starting point is 00:57:00 gonna just i'm gonna tell you what's gonna happen okay sure because i've been down this road before i've seen the leafs fall off a cliff before here's what's gonna happen matthews neilander oel all going to the olympics right and probably other guys too i don't know um and they are going to come back and matthews is going to sit the rest of the year and if nylander is in fact hurt nylander will be shut down as well no um the coach whether the coach gets fired or doesn't i don't know whether it happens in season or after season but it's going to happen it should happen i think it needs to happen today to me that that was almost on on parallel with what john Tortorella said to the Philadelphia media in late March last year I just I can't coach this team or

Starting point is 00:57:43 I can't keep doing that I would argue that was that was as bad as this to me I would argue what what Berube said was a little more justified than what Tortorella said um still unacceptable whether it's justified or not you can't say it you can't you got you you are paid the big bucks to be the big leader and you're the accountability guy and you're not holding your own coaching staff accountable right holding savard like listen if savard was a player and he was playing if his results were as bad in his play as they are as his coach he'd be benched you you he was you can't prolific as a playmaker i know that and it's and it's breaking me that like his power play can't make a pass it's a results business the results are terrible you need to pull him off that

Starting point is 00:58:31 that's number one you will get no pushback here and so the other thing that's going to happen if this continues and i think that it will i think we're all kind of resigned to the fact that it will unless some miracle happens if we're talking to you in a month and the leafs are on a on a heater i'm going to be shocked but i'll be thrilled um if this continues this way you're going to see you're going to see a sell-off you need to get carlo back in the lineup to show teams he can play so you can so you can trade him once he recovers from uh the whatever leprosy or like i don't know you're gonna sell him you're gonna sell michelle for pennies on the dollar because the coach won't play him so that third round pick that you've you've fired into the sun your ass

Starting point is 00:59:12 you might get a seventh back and it might be a second so yeah jesse's got a point games or something so no it's if he puts up a certain amount of points and if i'm not mistaken what could still happen here is let's say michelli's traded to the bruins if he goes to the bruins they play him on the first line and he's incredible and scores 55 points in the 82nd game uh it could be a second round pick so it's going to be a third one of the conditions is if toronto makes the playoffs oh well yeah and oh so the let me just read the conditions yes yes the conditions are it's a third round pick that they send for michelli it upgrades to a 2029 second round pick if Toronto makes the playoffs this season

Starting point is 00:59:54 and Michele records at least 51 points in 25-26. The language is important. And... And, yeah. So I think we're good. Yeah, we're good. Still, it's a third-round pick. Still, it's a third-round pick.

Starting point is 01:00:04 Oh, yeah. No, no, no. That's a lot for a player not in your lineup. Nobody's saying this is a small price to pay. This is huge for a guy who literally doesn't matter to this team because he doesn't play. A third-round pick ought to get you an everyday NHL player. Like, it's not a first, it's not a second,

Starting point is 01:00:19 but it's still quite a bit. A player. um so you're gonna you're gonna look to sell right that's what you're gonna do uh the way i look at this roster this is not to me a situation where you tear the whole thing down i know everybody feels that way um i need to know i'm gonna i'm gonna assume in this scenario that whatever is ailing austin matthews is fixable i i tend to be on the side of sports science on this one uh it's come so far hold on hold on just let me let me get this out i think what's happening is that austin hasn't wanted to go the full way to fix what ails him i'm talking surgery

Starting point is 01:00:56 all right so he needs to go and get the surgery done whatever it is there's no games in february well i think it's going to be march or april but yes um oh no that's very gonna play for country no the leafs play a ton of games in march and april february would be much more better that that'd be way better well i think it's going to be like a six-month recovery process and I think he's going to the Olympics. Now, I think more games will make it better. No, no, no, you're right. More games will make it better.

Starting point is 01:01:24 You're right. Mario Lemieux, just like last year. Mario Lemieux did it in 2002, played in the Olympics, didn't play a single game for the Pens afterwards that season. Yeah, and he was part owner. So if anyone told him,

Starting point is 01:01:35 hey, Mario, you shouldn't play. That's true. That's where you inform them. Go fuck yourself, mid-cigarette. You're going to sell. You're going to sell, guys. Okay, you're going to sell. You could look at selling Lotton,

Starting point is 01:01:44 although I think that guy's a part of the solution here. um you i think you're going to sell joshua i think you're going to sell michelli i think you're going to sell yarn croak if you can uh i think you're going to sell if you go down to the defensive side carlo i think you're going to try to get a huge package for oel as well you should right well and once all those guys are sold off like that creates a huge opportunity for like minton grovankin hold on though all the what point is that you use those to try to begin the stockpiling if mint if carlo got you minton uh and a first last year oel can get you a similar package this year with the way he's playing and the great thing about oel is look at that contract

Starting point is 01:02:26 3.5 million dollars it does not look bad this year next year and the year after that's a spectacular contract that's great and it's a partial no move i get it or partial no trade or whatever that that thing is but you can you there is things to be done here there are things to be done here here's my problem and this is where i want to turn it over to you guys who do you want making those trades that's the issue another guy you can you are gonna have to sell and by the way anybody that's saying sell a goaltender nobody's buying two goalies made a glass and dennis hildeby so you're stuck with those guys i'm fine with that personally i think having a triage of goaltenders three guys that's fine by me when i look at uh the last piece that

Starting point is 01:03:10 I would think is part of this roadmap is it is time for somebody in management, whomever is going to handle this sell-off to sit down with Morgan Riley and say, Mo, we gave the opportunity last summer to come back and play a better game. You haven't. And yes, I know your point totals are there, which will make it easier to trade you. But the reality of the situation is despite your no movement clause, your future is not here. So go home, speak to your family, talk about where you might want to play the next chapter of your career because it will not be in Toronto. And you're either getting moved at the deadline or you're getting moved on July 1st, but you are no longer going to be a Toronto Maple Leaf. Teams do this all the time. Players waive no movement

Starting point is 01:03:55 clauses all the time. And that is what needs to happen. I think Chris Tanev is going to stick around he signed the six-year deal he owns a house here like he he's gonna retire a leaf and you need somebody back there uh who who's actually good at you know hockey and teach a guy like ben danford when you were like oh well you could try this guy this guy this guy this guy i like i don't think i have the appetite for a full rebuild that's not what i'm saying right that's why i'm saying you sell off the guys that you can get something for and guys like cowan nice matthews depending on his health like we we need him back to full so whatever it takes to get there sure Nylander Tavares is going to be here there's five guys right there that are definitely a part of the

Starting point is 01:04:38 future I would include Nick Waugh and I would oh yeah and I would include Scott Lawton absolutely you're gonna probably hold on to Bobby McMahon no you trade Bobby McMahon well I see to me the guy you trade is Max Domi well yeah no shit no offense but like and he's a playoff performer like playoff gamer it's crazy how much better he is in the playoffs like i that is how you start to retool this the lot in line was was on for a goal against last night and they're showing the replay and here's the shot from the point and here's max late to the point like just there was a perfect angle from behind the cabs d-man and i was just like if that ain't it if that ain't perfect remember he also found easton cowan with a wide open net twice and easton cowan

Starting point is 01:05:28 biffed both of those yes yes and cowan is real rookie real up real down yeah he's a rookie like to me i watch him play and he's the prototypical rookie and he gives what he takes when you talk about bobby mcmahon like that to me reinforces my point about like the roster not being good enough that's the guy who makes 1.35 million dollars plays in your bottom six he's fourth on the team in goals it's it's the big three guys matthews willie and jt and then fourth is bobby mcmahon the guy who is like oh just move him a million dollars irrelevant there's nobody on this roster no no that's your fourth leading goal scorer maybe you should keep him i i think that the the fact that he is your fourth leading goal scorer is the reason that you've got bigger

Starting point is 01:06:19 problems and you can solve them with a bobby mcmahon package yeah you could get a lot for that and you know i don't care about how the marley's do this year i don't give a shit so if these guys all get sold off and you put a bunch of marley's in the lineup i don't care i don't give a shit give them some hockey they don't care either uh yeah the oh no we're gonna lose two out of every three while i get an nhl page yeah no like get some guys that that want to want to prove themselves at that level and i also think nick robertson you look at the market for him he was so good last night he was and that's what i mean like that's a player i'd like to keep nick robertson but uh frankly you know we're in the mode of we need to get as many assets in the door

Starting point is 01:07:03 as quickly as possible they need to do that and they can't just go and get a bunch of draft picks like i know everybody's gonna be worried about the first round this year and boston having that pick and i know it sucks if they fought finish outside of the top five in the in the in the draft pick you know lottery then okay fine uh uh boston's gonna have that pick and it's gonna sting what you need are players that are closer to nhl ready you need prospects you don't need the first round pick you need the grabenkin or the minton or the whatever now grabenkin's not playing just for everybody that's like worried about the philly thing grabenkin's not playing in philly regularly yeah like i also think they're wrong they might be wrong but the flyers are just

Starting point is 01:07:43 wrong i don't know that if he's a i don't know if he's more than a fringe guy i just don't know i kind of wonder if there's a world where they could get him back uh which i know is insane but like i'm pretty positive the flyers did not get nikita grabenkin to not play him and they're not playing him at all and and i think he's still up with the team because they risk losing him if i'm not maybe they could fire a michelli over there for him like at least he's good vibes listen well like what i'm saying is they're gonna need guys and like what do you sell hey we gave you that guy and you're not using them you want yeah can we have them back yeah can we have them back for like what would the cost be now the flyers may end up in the same position yep but

Starting point is 01:08:28 like they're i think if i haven't looked at the standings but like i think they're closer to in than the Leafs are right now, which is nuts. Anyway, I'm getting lost in the Leafs. The point I'm trying to make is you need to start looking at these guys and going, what is a reasonable package that we can expect for all of these players? And are we making the trades before the Olympic deadline or after? But you're going to have to make those moves.

Starting point is 01:08:51 Gorobankin, by the way, doesn't need waivers. So what are they doing? He can go up and down. What are they doing? Well, who cares? Why are they holding this man hostage? um I Fraser Minton 12 points in 35 games in Boston Fraser Minton's not solving any problems on the Toronto Maple Leafs this year no he's good he's a good player but he's not solving

Starting point is 01:09:12 any problems this year right so if you're worried about anything be worried about the first round pick I look at Easton Cowan's development and I compare it to somebody like Matthew Nye's Matthew Nye's been a point of game player this year um remember that in his first full 80 game season he had 35 it takes time to get there it will take time but that's what we need to start planning for the next the next 18 months to 24 months that's what it's got to be um they so they need to start looking at you know how i'm always like hey nhl gms what do you do all day they should have the answer to that already for every single player on the roster again you ought to be when i think of what the leafs executive

Starting point is 01:10:02 like what their front office should look like it should be the best front office money can buy and every moment that it's not is a waste of time and a waste of money if you don't have the answer to what you could get for all of those guys at your fingertips you're doing it wrong you guys all have like this crazy technology you took a hundred thousand dollar fine on purpose a few years ago remember this um coming out of the christmas break the leafs took off uh for a flight to a road game i think it was like 90 minutes early um they you weren't allowed to go on the flight until midnight because it was a violation of the cba rules and the holiday like basically

Starting point is 01:10:57 you're cutting the players holiday short by 90 minutes but they took the fine and did that so that they can get into town i think it was st louis earlier get in a good sleep be rested for the next night and win the game well what did they do if i'm not mistaken the game was tight and they ended up winning so you spend a hundred thousand dollars on two points every time every single time that's the kind of financial might they had they're like let's just break the rules what's the fine for breaking the rules a hundred thousand all right fun coupons and you just throw it out there why aren't they the envy of the league i'll never understand it yeah but i want to get away from the existential stuff for a little bit i want to get i can't help it i know

Starting point is 01:11:47 but i want to get into the details of like because people i think want to hear what what can be done what can be done now right because they already feel all those things and i'm not saying they're not rational and reasonable because they are yeah i feel them too but we need to go into okay let's get into problem solving mode here what's the direction this team needs to take and i think the biggest problem that faces them right now is it's clear that there needs to be a sell-off if this continues and it's also clear that you can't trust current management with the sell-off it's yes so like i'd clean house honestly okay i'd go gm and you make a decision about the other guys like some other guys have been there a while some other guys just got there whatever

Starting point is 01:12:27 um and i do coaching stuff i think it's easy to justify both and you bring in and by the way you don't immediately bring in your next head coach you you do i agree with that you do it like the horacek thing it's like here's an interim guy uh all the red wings fans are gonna laugh at this but maybe you hold your nose and it's lalonde no it's it's not no but it's not on an interim not to be the next head coach i think interim that's fine interim basis yeah yeah i you gotta think it out for three months you can do it yeah i hate i hate that idea i like bruce boudreaux better than that no i wouldn't bring in anybody from the outside to just do three months or whatever i think that's a fine solution and you just who cares who cares if you

Starting point is 01:13:11 win any games yeah okay okay as long as that's the goal i agree with the both of you honestly like i think either is justifiable bring in bruce just to keep things a little light and he's always dreamed of coaching the leafs yeah whatever i don't know fuck or you just have lalon do it i'm perfectly fine with either that what i'm not perfectly fine with is leaving things the way they are yeah and the bradshaw living part of it where it's now we got to get into the solutions and everything i don't trust him to be the one to retool the team because he doesn't have a great track record making trades like it's not with something in a specialty adam you always talk about dubis being a 10 out of 10 trade he's amazing at it you know he can't negotiate a

Starting point is 01:13:53 contract for his damn life but he can make a trade and bradshaw living is kind of the complete opposite where so we look at some of these deals and we're like these are pretty good deals he's negotiated yeah i don't hate them at all but anything where he's just making trades trying to upgrade the team i haven't really liked in his tenure in calgary it's a little clouded by ownership tapping him on the shoulder a little constantly they fucked him on it's so impossible it's very difficult to evaluate it's hard to say what he did and what was forced upon him yeah so it's hard to judge from that standpoint but if so if i want to scratch all that and the kachuk trade and throw it out the window the least tenure doesn't give me any confidence no

Starting point is 01:14:32 so if i'm in there as keith pelly i'm like okay this thing's a disaster let's start a start a new with the people i hire what was the first thing he did was leafs gm uh bradshaw living yeah i don't know you tell me david camp contract well that was shanny though that was shanny and by the way Well, then it's the same shit. Well, so was Berube, though. Berube was shanty as well. This is why I'm saying let's just start over. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:15:00 Start fresh. I agree. I agree with you both. I think that's the way to go. And I think the guy to step in and be the interim GM is Brandon Pridham. And I think you put interim tag. I don't think you say, Brandon, this is your team now. It's, hey, Brandon, you know what it was like when the Leafs had to farm draft picks and prospects from other teams.

Starting point is 01:15:21 using the trade deadline capital that they had, okay? Do that. I think just as I would be very fine with Lalonde being interim for however long he needs to be interim, I'd be fine with Pridham too. You know, as long as it's interim, you think like that's the three-month holdover

Starting point is 01:15:37 before the off-season where you could hire a guy. Maybe he becomes the guy, but it's fine for interim. I also think this organization, like it did and intelligently did 10 years ago, this was smart. If they'd stuck to it, it would have been even smarter. um they had a a top-down approach that was not top-down it was i guess it was bottom up uh where the marlies were supposed to train to be leafs and the role that you played on the marlies

Starting point is 01:16:06 you were trained so that when you came up to the leafs you would play that same role the dubious leafs graduated a lot of players they did and then they just stopped them themselves the dubious Marley's graduated themselves in that Dubas went from running the Marley's to running the Leafs, and Sheldon Keefe went from running the Marley's to running the Leafs. They all graduated.

Starting point is 01:16:30 Great internship. If I'm not mistaken, their video staff that get all the offside reviews right, I think they came from the Marley's too. Marley's guys. I might be wrong. Man, they graduated so many guys. And this is where he did

Starting point is 01:16:46 so many things well and I wish he didn't suck so much butt at contract negotiation and COVID and that COVID would have saved Dubas in a lot of ways if it didn't happen and they didn't but they didn't reality

Starting point is 01:17:01 changed and they didn't and here we are yeah and and I think I also think Kyle could be he could be blamed for loving his players from the Marlies too much yeah like sorry but like Pierre Engvall

Starting point is 01:17:17 everybody and their mother could see that that guy was not a player except for kyle and lou uh and lou yeah yeah we gotta be honest about that who's he on year three of that thing yeah so a couple people believed in eggball yeah yeah this is my this is my oh i thought you were talking about zaitsev for a sec well that was lou uh yeah turns out the guy who was best known for running the devils uh seven is not his number Should have been six. Yeah, seven-year deals. Not great.

Starting point is 01:17:50 But Lou was also the guy that got Riley and Cowdrey into those great deals that they were on before the deals they're on currently. Uh-huh. Oh, my God. Those are two of the best contracts they ever freaking signed. All I want to say is this. The decision is now.

Starting point is 01:18:05 Now, whether they make it now, to me, is going to be interesting. But the decision is now. And this is where we're going to find out whether Keith Pelley is good or a disaster. hmm this is on keith now this is where keith has to speak to ed rogers and tony staffieri ceo owner and go guys um this ain't working and i'm new at this but i'm going to tell you uh and and here's a hilarious story i'm just going to add on to you jonah siegel

Starting point is 01:18:35 said that the toronto maple leafs are not selling out tickets this year and it's jonah siegel uh james myrtle and josh cloak and this is the lowest average attendance in the history of their time at scotia bank arena ever since they got there in 1999 now being maple leaf sports and entertainment they're not blaming that on the product they're saying well the jays were in the playoffs which is true and a lot of people were spending the money there and then you know we had all our all of our home games compressed at the beginning of the season which they did and you know it's the olympic thing and people can only spend so much money per week on nights out and it's also a shitty economy let's be honest but the toronto maple leafs tickets the last time that they didn't

Starting point is 01:19:31 sell out the arena regularly was the horror check your reliefs that is this type of product and and The reality of where the Leafs are at is it's not even a good watch. Even if they win, it's not a good watch. Can I read you some texts I got before the show? Give it to me. Are these just friends of yours, or are these just people in the industry? This is my wife. Oh, okay.

Starting point is 01:19:52 This is my wife. Oh, a friend of yours. Yeah, a friend of mine. So the morning after Leaf games, she gets the kids up, and she brings Isla to daycare and Leo to school. Sure. Because Daddy was up late. um and she said because again we're going to the penguins game this upcoming week

Starting point is 01:20:14 this stupid team is going to be such a bummer to watch next week every morning after a game leo asked me if they won a and if i tell him no he is legitimately so disappointed yeah and i responded fuck period she said i know poor kid he's just a mini innocent version of you i said what have i done and she said we failed him as parents well yeah but but this is where keith pelly needs to be a ceo this is where keith pelly needs to be ultron he needs to be given permission from ownership to be ultra he has permission good and to give you an idea of what i mean by that i think a lot about meteors i can't do an ultron voice i think a lot about meteors the purity of them boom the end start again the world made clean

Starting point is 01:21:12 for the new man to rebuild that's what we need how often have we had this woven web of i just got here mm-hmm enough like the okay so keith is the new ceo and he didn't hire the gm and that gm did brad true living hire craig berube oh yeah he did he did so this is his guy but berube who very obviously should be fired by the time the show is uploaded uh has the blessing of the ceo but the gm needs to make this decision but the gm maybe can't make the decision because of the ceo which that whole chain of command is fucked but now we're assuming that though i don't know that that's necessarily the case anymore things change things do change and they have to today like berube to me is the free space that is the easiest decision you can

Starting point is 01:22:21 make this season that guy can't be the coach of your team anymore after last night nope nope hold on i would go a step further and make it the gm because i don't think this gm has done a good enough job to warrant hiring the new guy and making the changes necessary to this team and i worry that if you allow him to you perpetuate this cycle of i just got here blow it up i know it's mid-season do what rogers has always done with every problem in their path and throw money at it until it fixes itself well it's mid-season money well no one's of it money how do we get money well they also make cuts when they need to they're not afraid to do that maybe make some cuts they were never afraid to let go of anyone

Starting point is 01:23:23 i've ever known what why are these guys so special they've done such a good job you're gone money for the solution well and i think they gotta wait for the solution to appear that's the other thing i don't want them to do i don't want you up here in front of the solution no steve no you misunderstand okay what i'm saying is don't go and make a quick hire at GM or coach oh I agree with that that's you have to wait for that to happen wait to find the right person I'm okay with like okay who's in their front office they got uh Shane Doan you're just a Brad disciple you're gone uh Haley Wickenheiser been there for a couple administrations that's pretty interesting uh and Brandon Pridham who has been there a very long time and they're a little

Starting point is 01:24:14 shifty about like what his role even is like some of the tidiest work the leafs did uh in terms of accumulating assets during the rebuild was when they had no gm and they just let mark hunter and kyle dubas run uh the leafs in tandem uh for that uh was it the 2015 draft yep i think they did some interesting things during that era some things that helped them when they were eventually good what if it's just wick and pritam for a little bit or there's no one else you could bring in to do anything i think you don't need to bring anyone in i think you have your guys you have your people there internally and you you play it out to the end of the season all right brad shane boom yep uh coaching staff start with berube would you like fries with that okay great

Starting point is 01:25:05 savard van ryan boom and there you need other living human beings behind the bench so okay uh But Lalonde does this. Who else is back there? I feel like there's one other guy back there. Clancy or something. Is there a Clancy somewhere? I don't know. I don't even know.

Starting point is 01:25:19 It doesn't matter. King Clancy? Not King. That's a Brad hire. There you go. You know, like, it's the perfect time. Yep. It's the perfect time.

Starting point is 01:25:32 And, you know, I hate that it's before Christmas, too. I hate that it's happening at all. Um, but it's a multi-billion dollar team in a multi-kajillion billion dollar industry. Your team stinks, asshole. Please change it. Two in five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation

Starting point is 01:26:03 Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. For the person on your list, Jenny Bird might be the place you want to go, okay? We're talking about modern and timeless designs, and it instantly levels up your gift game, and it's easy because it's all there, and all the styles are great, and it's for a great price. And I can confirm that you still have up until the 22nd in most regions to get something from Jenny Bird and deliver to you by the 24th.

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Starting point is 01:27:33 Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. so the next question we have today is what is goaltender interference the ongoing saga the the days of our lives of the nhl and this is a goal that happened uh about 11 minutes left in

Starting point is 01:28:14 the second period uh sends penguins by the way the penguins are looking like the penguins we thought that they might be i think it's over for chris letang by the way i'm just going to throw that out there i think it's over no i'm on the penguin side on this one this happened against the Sens? No, I think the Penguins got jobbed. So, Jesse, do you want to take this one? I can start playing it. Oh, yeah. Let's start playing it. So, Linus Olmark. You see him there? Look at Linus Olmark.

Starting point is 01:28:38 And Ricard Raquel is getting pushed into Linus Olmark. He is not in the white paint. By Jake Sanderson. Not in the white paint. Not trying to initiate contact. Gets knocked over by Sanderson and maybe

Starting point is 01:28:54 the stick of Olmark. Can't really tell from that angle. But this goal was ruled not a goal that's hog shit that i don't know what the rule is supposed to be i know what it's supposed to be excuse me i don't know how they come to that conclusion i always think of what elliot friedman likes to say and the league needs more goals and not less like if you're going to take a goal off the board it needs to be egregious this is not egregious even kind of right no this is you know you can definitely be like well raquel accidentally on purpose made contact or he flopped that would definitely be my cope if this happened to my team

Starting point is 01:29:43 and we can all be guilty of cope regarding our teams but i i earnestly think he got shoved into and when you look at the footage you see that there is a stick in between raquel's legs he does not have agency of what he can do in this moment he is allowed to be in this part of the ice he's not in the blue paint he is on white paint he is tangled up with his man in front and he is simply trying to move and the Sens player is Jake Sanderson is moving him with his stick there's no reason for this goal to not be a goal you could even argue he so if you go back a few frames you can even argue he intentionally avoids yeah right there yeah he intentionally avoids contact with all mark because if he keeps his right uh sorry his left skate where it is

Starting point is 01:30:41 drags it along the ice and he clank skates with all mark that's obvious goaltender interference yes raquel is intentionally in the areas where he's allowed to be he is trying to not be in the blue paint not touch all mark and he does a really good job while engaged in a battle in front of the that to not touch the goaltender and the main point of contact with all mark is sanderson stick oh and they got the wrong stick anderson touches all mark first does that not then negate everything that happens because your own player is turning you with his stick i i guess he like two things can be true right like you know he he got his stick in there on his own goalie but that doesn't give the other guy license to like elbow drop him but i just don't think that's what happened

Starting point is 01:31:34 rick hell did a spectacular job avoiding all mark and all mark who was never going to make this save because the save was not impacted by rick hell touching him or sanderson stick touching him The puck is right here. It's a blur because it's going so fast. But the puck's there, and it's gone past all mark here. That's in the back of the net. It's a goal. There it is.

Starting point is 01:31:59 It's very fast. You can see the little blur going through. This is already a goal. That's a really tough call. So what was the call on the ice? That's what I'd like to know. And I'd also like to know, did the league release an explanation? I don't have an explanation.

Starting point is 01:32:16 call on the ice was a goal and then it was challenged for goalie interference and it was an unsuccessful no it was uh called no goal and they challenged for goalie interference and the challenge was also pittsburgh got a penalty yeah that's i'll say it again that is a perfectly valid challenge and i hate that teams get penalized for challenges that don't work that aren't frivolous challenges every scoring play in the national hockey league should be automatically reviewed it's ridiculous that they don't take the minute 30 seconds between the guys doing fist bumps to the bench and then the linesman fake drop in the puck that whole time just do a quick review of everything come to a conclusion in toronto and then send the game on

Starting point is 01:33:07 every scoring play in the national football league is reviewed automatically so there isn't this nonsense of guys playing a little game of like oh i'm gonna win this challenge i'm gonna make it a little game between you and me referees yeah toronto backhoe don't make it a little mini game inside of a game just play the game to the rules and have every scoring play automatically reviewed it really is very simple yes it really is a side quest that's ridiculous a side quest is a perfect way to describe it yeah no like that is calling it a no goal on the ice i like again like i rip on the refs all the time i don't blame them for making that call in the moment no i think refs should opt to challenge things themselves a lot more often than they do or they should be given

Starting point is 01:33:54 license to do that um because at the end of the day it's a really fast game and if you if you ultimately come up with the right call it's the right call i don't think that's the recall at all and when you go to the game logs and you see something that says two minutes for delaying game unsuccessful challenge you handed out a penalty to the pittsburgh penguins for simply trying to get the rules right it's that doesn't seem fair by the way they still got the rules right the penguins still got the rules right they were right it's the it's the challenge the penguins were right if you want to spin it that way yeah yeah uh the nhl got this wrong and i don't that's the part for me that i don't understand is like how we took a cursory look at

Starting point is 01:34:37 that and it's obvious yeah the puck was by him by the time like the main point of contact that would be the goalie interference moment the pucks already by all mark what are you calling yes i don't know i don't know and like let's be honest about the game itself the penguins wouldn't have won this game yeah but they still deserve that they deserve that goal yeah pens fans you probably wouldn't have won this game they know but there's a shutout that's on on against your team that shouldn't have been a shutout yeah you should have at least had one who knows how momentum changes yep but i'm just saying probably don't win but you guys got screwed on that so like i just typed in like penguins challenge just to see if anything comes up the nhl public relations uh twitter

Starting point is 01:35:25 account uh we'll just tweet out like hey here's an explanation for blah blah blue there's nothing not for this one no no there's a couple days ago there's one from the other game why isn't there an explanation for this no because it's so clear and obvious this is everybody gets it steve it's just not a lead no no they they think everybody understands this one i don't know if they do one for every single one that would require work imagine having to explain your own decisions that's not going to do your job oh here it is yeah two days ago uh ironically explanation of coach's challenge uh from the first period oilers penguins so there was a there was a there was a challenge in the oilers penguins game two days ago uh but and and that one was

Starting point is 01:36:11 perfectly fine so i guess the nhl values edmonton more than it values ottawa or what is that there was a challenge if there was a result and you didn't tweet anything about if you were to ask gary with truth serum you'd probably say yes i don't like michael and lauren i think it's probably what he would say i think the real i think if you gave gary betman truth serum he would evaporate yeah i think he would vanish into ash like getting thanos snapped um i don't get that one and uh guess what folks never gonna get it they haven't said anything about it yeah that's the thing like the no explanation is so funny because now we're forced to just move on with our lives and we can't ever the conversation we have here is the end of the conversation

Starting point is 01:37:06 because there's nothing else to talk about because the nhl shut down any conversation because they don't provide an explanation so it's it's so sad it is yeah that's it Explains no goal video review At the end of the second Avalanche Kraken That's the last one I can find Maybe they just haven't got to it yet Maybe they're gonna

Starting point is 01:37:27 It is quarter after one in the afternoon And we're never going to get anything else Oh good Headliner Heard through the grapevine That role model will be at the 2026 NHL Discover Winter Classic And I don't know who this person is

Starting point is 01:37:45 Musician am i just old and irrelevant well i hated emma chamberlain he's he's a guy i don't know who that is so uh so you are 42 that's not i hate you and so that's not the only sad thing that happened in net last night the edmonton oilers appear to have lost tristan jari uh as of an hour ago uh he got on a plane and went back to edmonton to be evaluated today and it looks like alex lion is probably on his way to edmonton maybe before the roster freeze but if they don't get it done now then they gotta wait like a whole week well it's interesting right like if you maddie love i mean could calvin pickard hold the fort for a week sure he's done it before yeah like it's not

Starting point is 01:38:30 the end of the world but also like you could come out of this with a jari lion tandem which i gotta to say is an upgrade it sure is sure is i mean but i wonder even a lion pickard tandem if jari's hurt long term i wonder how much the the actual thing like i don't know what buffalo wants back i'm assuming they didn't want to take calvin pickard back maybe they did what if calvin well yeah i don't know you already have you have three goalies right they've had some injuries back there so maybe they were like well we needed three i think i think we might be barking up the wrong tree with the second goalie in in edmonton because i i see that they're going to bring up connor ingram he's been awful who has been bad he's got a 4.04 goals against average

Starting point is 01:39:20 with an 856 save percentage in 11 games for the condors but the uh yeah it's it's ugly 56 yeah It's not great. But the report from Sportsnet here is that he's expected to be called up. So that's going to be what we got. The Pickard Ingram show. Eight. Fifty six. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:39:49 Hey, it could be a Hamburglar situation. We're bad in the. I was just about to say it in the NHL. uh the Hamburglar Andrew Hammond was legitimately bad yep the year literally the year he was called up to the Sens from wherever their AHL team was at the time Binghamton I don't even remember he was bad he was straight up bad and he went what was his record something stupid like 21 and 2 it was crazy you couldn't beat the man you could not beat the man nearly literally maybe that's what happens here with ingram i should mention hamburglar's safe percentage

Starting point is 01:40:33 was better than 856 856 is crazy it's crazy it's crazy 11 appearance in the ahl is crazy yep that's nuts yep yeah no that can't happen well it's going to happen also like crazy bad luck for edmonton yeah yeah for jari and then he immediately gets hurt like that's that sucks i'd rather stewart skinner oh oh bring back skinner rogers arena rogers arena place yeah rogers ice um start those chance bring stew back uh last thing i wanted to hit on this in this episode guys also good win good win for them sure against boston yeah uh jari leaves they get the the emergency goalie i hated the emergency goalie last night hey you got to actually be uh just a dude off the off the street he he played in like

Starting point is 01:41:35 the echl like well that's the rule now now you gotta fly guys yeah i'm upset well that's i want the guy from the stands who has to come in there and put on a jersey and sit on the bench and maybe he gets in the game it was such a cool rule yeah this guy i was like four years ago he was in the e yeah that's not emergency enough and before you think oh but he'd get shelled are you a leaf fan two and five canadians will hear the words you have cancer that's why every step and dollar raised matters on september 19th join thousands in toronto for the princess margaret cancer foundation walk challenge yourself friends and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life saving research together we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of

Starting point is 01:42:23 cancer register today at pmcfwalk.ca uh now i want to very quickly touch on this before we go because i've been trying to hold off on this story as long as we can um because i feel like this story is a sad one and this one started happy and it started hopeful but it has not worked out and that is the play of jonathan tase on the winnipeg jets who have fallen like a rock in the standings remember this is a team that started nine and three you'll lose connor hellebuck who's a heart Vezina Trophy winner last season. That's going to hurt you, but you would think the Jets are better than this.

Starting point is 01:42:58 Central Division, too. Tough division, but they're supposed to be one of the really good teams in this division. Central is hard. It's a tough division. They have less points than the St. Louis Blues. Oh, really? Wow.

Starting point is 01:43:13 They're tied with the Blackhawks. They got two points up on the Preds. You haven't mentioned the Leafs yet. I'm sure the Leafs are right in there. That's good. No, the Leafs have 35.

Starting point is 01:43:27 So, you know, the Jets have 32. Moving on up. Yeah, you know what? Listen, don't talk to me about success because I see it in person. Pays, though. 33 games, three goals. Okay. Six assists, nine points.

Starting point is 01:43:42 Okay. Now, we always say plus minus is a dumb stat until it gets dumb. Right? Stupid until it gets really stupid. A minus 13. Oh. And Jets fans, you're starting to openly see. And it's not that Taze isn't an NHL player,

Starting point is 01:43:59 because those are objectively an NHL player's numbers. He's fine. He's an $800,000 NHL player. He's not a $5.25 million NHL player. And from what I understand, he is six games away from another $550,000 bonus. This is what I'm not understanding. they intentionally smartly signed a deal with jonathan taves with like safety measures built

Starting point is 01:44:27 into the deal what was it every 20 games or every 10 games or something like that they didn't make it points based they made it games based right he gets a five hundred thousand dollar bonus and Kevin Sheveldayoff put in all these safety precautions and they're blowing through all of them. They're just lighting money on fire for the purpose of what exactly? Well, you take the risk with Tejas that you hope that he comes back to partially what he was, right?

Starting point is 01:45:00 Okay. But at $5.25 million, that's the base. $5.25 was always an insane risk. That's a lot of money, but it's winnipeg so they have to pay more to bring in free agents how what triple well at the time the 5.25 million seemed high and if he hits all his bonuses now the jets would have to like win the cup or something like that that he's not gonna hit all of them no but seven million is the top end of this deal has he been a healthy scratch at all this season i don't think they can't they've

Starting point is 01:45:29 had some injuries and stuff like those are healthy scratch numbers like those are take it or leave it numbers see i think they can't do that because he was their big free agent get so it makes them look shitty if you go and you scratch your your big free agent get no you know what makes you look shitty is your ego getting in the way of smart business i agree which is 100 what that is yep right so the you know one one of them makes you look bad and the other one makes you bad right makes you look bad and makes you bad it makes you look bad because you're bad um and what they're choosing to do by keeping them in and just blowing through all these little pit stops uh it's not doing the jets any favors not smart not smart business but what else do you want

Starting point is 01:46:20 me to say i don't know like uh it's it would have been great if he came back and wrecked shop but Like, what were the sheer odds of that? Especially at 5.25. That's a lot of money. You're talking about a Gabriel Landeskog-like comeback with more hurdles to climb. Landeskog worked out with the Avalanche the entire time. Taves didn't.

Starting point is 01:46:49 I don't know why they ever thought this would end differently. Well, and then the question becomes, like with the Leafs, what do you do so i i was reading uh mike mcintyre mike mcintyre in the winnipeg free press because he did a good article really good article after the one nothing shut out to the blues on wednesday that kind of felt like the tipping point for the tape season and for the jet season at this point right now and he pointed to how like the stars have really shown up for the team like hella buck's been good shifley's been good the guys that they need to show up have been good it's just all of the parts around the lineup haven't been there at all and he pointed to a lot

Starting point is 01:47:30 of guys in particular it was um the summer signings of taves nyquist and pearson have been a bust he wrote nyquist has no goals in 24 games oh my god tanner pearson five points in 27 games colin miller a healthy scratch for 23 games so far this season uh so those are all of their three or all of their bigger unrestricted free agents this coming offseason. So if you're looking to sell these guys at the deadline, say you're not where you are, even the deadline guys are underperforming. He goes into how you can't blame Kyle Conner and Shifley and Morrissey, along with Gabe Velarde.

Starting point is 01:48:09 They've been Winnipeg's best players. And then you look at the rest of the pieces around them, like I mentioned those guys, and then you add Vlad Domestikov has one assist in 22 games. You might soon spot his face on a milk carton. line mate nino nita rider has no points in nine games oh my god cole perfetti and what was supposed to be a breakout season has regressed significantly with just two goals in 19 games and not helped by the ankle sprain suffered in the preseason dylan de mello skating with morrissey has been prone to

Starting point is 01:48:40 costly turnovers and lastly i'll mention dylan sandberg doesn't look like himself falling a broken wrist in camp and neither does captain adam lowry added one more and then taves to put the cherry on top one secondary assist in 17 games here can i give you one ugly ugly stuff by the guys who are not the stars on this team so velarde shifley and connor are one two and three on this team and goals you know who's tied for fourth logan stanley it's not ideal logan he has six goals it's actually insane in his career he has 11 which include the six goals he scored this season more than half of his career goals have come in the 33 games he's played this season he's played 235 games i think a lot of this looking at the moves that shovel day off tried to make

Starting point is 01:49:44 and how expertly they've failed, this has got to rest on his shoulders for taking a President's Trophy winning team. Let's not forget they won the President's Trophy last season and then turning them into complete dust this season. So here's my question then on top of that. Is the Scott Arneal experiment similar to the Craig Berube one where the relationship starts off great

Starting point is 01:50:06 and then the honeymoon period wears off and suddenly you're in half-end going, we're probably going to have to break up. i look at scott arneal as one of the main reasons they got to the levels they got to last season and i they were there before though not that good yeah they're not president's trophy yeah they were not damn good they were unreal during the regular season last year and i know they get shaky once the playoffs roll around they have that scary first round series and then they get bumped in the second round right yeah and then yes but like i look at shovel day off trying to

Starting point is 01:50:40 make these moves to supplant the stars that they have and those extra guys aren't working so i put that on the gm and scott arneal i mean if he were to get fired he wouldn't be the first uh coach to get fired unfairly because yeah his goalie stopped goalieing yeah and with hellebuck it's obviously different because he's injured but like he's back now yeah oh he's back well then they're definitely fucked uh well we'll see i thought i thought he was a longer term yeah you know i i look at this and I think maybe there's a scenario here where people keep floating Pete DeBoer's name. I still think he's going to be a Predator coach,

Starting point is 01:51:16 but I definitely don't think he's going to be in Toronto. Jets to me. They're in trouble. You might need a coach. Anyway, we'll leave it there. Hellebuck on Wednesday was in that goalie duel against Joel Hofer. Oh, wow.

Starting point is 01:51:32 Stopped 25 of 26 shots. Nobody in front of him scored, so they lost 1-0. Okay. All right. It isn't. It's not great. They have four guys at the top of their lineup doing all,

Starting point is 01:51:45 and I mean nearly literally all the scoring, and then there's not. It's a really underrated story. I'm glad we got to touch on it a little bit, that the President's Trophy winner from last year and the team with the Vesna and Hart Trophy winner from last year has fallen off a cliff early on in the fall. Yep. And they lost Nikolai Ehlers, the straw that stirs the drink.

Starting point is 01:52:05 They sure did, Steve Dangle. They sure did. All right. We'll leave it there. A reminder that we got two streams this weekend, Saturday and Sunday. Steve's doing, but no,

Starting point is 01:52:14 I'm kidding. I'm doing a reminder that we are off the next two weeks. You're going to hear prerecorded episodes on Monday, Wednesday, Friday for the next two weeks. We'll be back in the new year. Happy New Year, everybody.

Starting point is 01:52:27 Merry Christmas. Happy holiday. The Steve Dangle podcast. Follow the guys on Twitter at Steve underscore Dangle at Adam W Y L D E. and at jesse blake connection complete

The Steve Dangle Podcast - Ask Those Guys | December 19, 2025

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