The Steve Dangle Podcast - Chief Keefe | November 24, 2019

Episode Date: November 25, 2019

On this episode of The Steve Dangle Podcast, Who Wore the Crown?!? (00:00), Leafs win two straight and Sheldon Keefe remains perfect (17:00), Babcock, Mike Commodore, & Mark Fraser (49:00), Bortuzzo was suspended (1:24:00), the Edmonton McDavid & Draisaitl's are amazing (1:40:00), the Canadiens blew a lead (1:48:00), the Flames continue to struggle (1:50:00), and Nazem Kadri (2:08:00). Originally aired: November 24, 2019 Watch the full episode here: https://youtu.be/IZmpguc9RrA Merch: https://teespring.com/en-GB/stores/fancydangleshirts Follow us on Twitter: @Steve_Dangle, @AdamWylde, & @JesseBlake Follow us on Instagram: @SteveDangle, @AdamWylde, & @Jesse.Blake Subscribe to us on iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/steve-dangle-podcast/id669828195?mt=2 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

panago pizza presents s s d p p the steve dangle podcast with your host steve dangle adam wilde and jesse blake we're embarking on new territory how new this could be the most positive podcast we've had of this particular season. Jesse, I think, on the way in, said that I have a little pep in my step. Yeah, I was telling Steve how he seems genuinely happier because one man is no longer in the Leafs organization.

Well, what if I told you that after not having a lead for over 400 minutes, the Leafs made a change and did a thing, of course, several hours after our last show. Which we need to talk about. And are now 2-0. Adam, 45 minutes. 45 minutes. max after we stopped recording.

They have seven goals in two games, if I'm not mistaken. Eight? Eight if you count the Hyman goal. It was a goal. And unassisted. What a dog. I love him. 25% of those goals

came from Tyson Berry. That's math. Is your math correct? Yes, it is. Two of eight is one of four, which is 25%. What'd you get in Mr. Amani's class? 60% Wow, so Adam is the better at math of the two of us

Because I got 57 Oh wow, alright And you know why I still remember that? I'm proud of it Hey guys I was following up a 50 Let's get into Who Wore the Crown, shall we? Who

Wore the crown Live generously and life will treat you royally Why not? Why not? Pour yourself and a friend a crown roll Because we're going to talk about Who Wore the Crown Where we talk about Who gave it their all for the Leafs

Who played the Toronto way? And you know what? This might actually be the easiest time we've ever had, except for Jesse, doing this segment. Because we can actually recognize a Leaf player that's playing well on a sustained amount of time. Mine is also easy to pick. Hey, it's brought to you by our friends at Crown Royal. Live generously and life will treat you royally. Let's get into this.

Steve Dangle, don't base your answer on what I'm going to pick. Just pick one. Yeah, you shouldn't do that. Yeah, you're like, well, I'm going to not pick the guy you're picking. Is Steve a crown hipster? He might be. Does he have to not pick the guy that everybody else is going to pick? I actually think he's just being polite.

Okay, I am absolutely not a crown hipster. That's why. Hold on, are they counting this 5-3 goal? Yes, yes, it was 5-3. No, they counted it. Oh, they did count it. Yeah, okay. I'm not a crown hipster, you guys.

So my pick is Adam Brooks. I just think. Are you going to get into a fight about Potentially fourth liners Because I can't wait for the twitter threat Adam what better thing to do on a Sunday A beautiful Sunday too It is so good

But I just Can't enjoy it Listen The crown has got to go to the new king Who is not the king And I think He understands he's not the king He's the damn coach

This isn't a monarchy He's the coach Are you taking shots at someone? Yes Sheldon Keefe The crown goes to Sheldon Keefe Chief Keefe You're welcome Raptors Twitter

What happened? Did they Joke their tweet Jesse? What happened? I tweeted Chief Keefe When he signed They joked it The hour later Raptors Twitter. Why did they chill? How do they they tweeted chief Keef?

Right for me. They stole it from Jesse right for me. It's not that it's a very obvious cultural reference. Thanks, right So they stole it they stole it obviously I had rappers Twitter at Twitter accounts or just the entire No, no, like their Twitter account tweeted it. Oh the Toronto Raptors. Yes No, they're a group of guys the Twitter account Shout out to Raptors Twitter by the way, they're great Also, I'm wearing a Raptors jersey, did you notice that? Yeah This is Kyle Lowry's team that's going to be in NHL 20

What does it say on the shoulder? I called him the sugar shack But I know that's wrong The syrup shack And look at that, K-Lo I don't want to get into How is his team going to be in NHL? So it's like his

Like Hut team And you can play against it I haven't played against them yet, but I feel like Kyle Lowry might be a creative character in them. So you can play as Lowry in MNH? I haven't checked yet. Okay. I haven't checked yet.

That's cool. It's been a busy few days. Okay. I haven't had a chance. No, you just tweeted about it. Yeah, I just tweeted about it. It's pretty cool. Sheldon Keefe comes in and he identifies right away.

This team is good. What does he identify? He identifies that the team is good I just need to make them feel good I need to make them feel Like their input matters Like This is work

But it's also not work You do get to play at the candy store You get to play at the candy store You're a Toronto Maple Look at all you All you with all your You see the things Austin Matthews can do with the puck Tell you what Austin

I'm going to try out something novel. How about your ice time starts with a two? Hey there, $11 million player. Tell you what, your ice time starts with a two. And tell you what, other $11 million player, so does yours. For a start. Hey, one of the best power play quarterbacks in the league, how about we let you do that?

Where can I look up ice time, by the way? It's a good website. Usually just the game sheet. If you want a specific game, just go to NHL.com I'm going to click the game, and then I go to game log, and it's all there. And then there's a time on ice chart. Cool. And a shift chart.

So here we go. Amount of shifts is important. Hold on. Am I looking at scores first? This is important. What do you want? I want to look at the shift chart, and I want to look at the ice time. Oh, good.

Go to game center, like on the, you just click on the little top. This is a great podcast. It's terrible. Listen, whatever. I don't care. Where is it? At the top? You know what they always do on Spitting Chicklets is they go, how does this work?

Is that what they do? No! Did you click it at the top? And then you click game center And then on the right bar The right bar is scrollable Scroll all the way to the bottom And then you'll see TOI Maple Leafs on official game reports

There it is Did you see it? Can I get through who I give the gosh darn crown to? Who do you give it to? Sheldon Keefe Making the team feel good, feel valued Using the team the way it's supposed to Listen

The reaction on the bench when Barry scored Was huge Huge. But even more so, Engvall scoring on that breakaway, the reaction on the bench, everyone's focusing on Sheldon Keefe looking like a proud father, which he was. My reaction was solely on Spezza bursting out laughing. Bursting out laughing. And I can...

We haven't even heard him laugh in Leafland. Which is a shame because his laugh is the greatest in NHL history. It is so good. uh and i and i just saw andreas johnson look at him immediately and actually andreas johnson had a front row seat also to the berry reaction matthew's losing his mind and he looked straight at matthews and i just felt like so many things went said without words in that first game against arizona and then also in the game against colorado which we'll get into i may or may not have screwed up the order of the goals because I was so excited in this video. I gotta give it to

Sheldon Keefe for catching John Tavares' terrible puck throw in his hand. That was good hands. Yep. And winning his first two games. No, it was the opposite of good hands. No, it was bad hands. He dropped, but he caught it! He caught it! You can't have good hands if you almost drop something. He gets style points. Alright.

Style points. He's like a goalie out of position. Yeah, he was out of position, that's why he to make the great save, but damn it, he made the great save. So he's Jonathan Quick. He's Marc-Andre Fleury on Nick Batan's shot. That was definitely going high. The Marc-Andre Fleury save that ended Mike Babcock's tenure as Leafs coach. Also

a terrible save. Also, it was, yeah. Matthews only played 17 minutes last night, by the way. Yeah. Are you sure? At a game in Sarazona, he played much more. Yes, he did. Rachel Doherty's got a theory on that, but I'm gonna let her tell it on her podcast, because she

Saf and Graf? Yeah, because I'm not going to get into it. But to finish your Keith discussion. Yes. He won his first two games, and for a team that had just lost, what was it, five or six straight? That seemed impossible, so good on him. Now, I got a question. Are you going to do your crown?

Yeah. Okay. My crown starts with a question. Oh. How can anybody on this show, on this panel, on this hot stove, This panel. On this group, on this gathering, how can anyone? Watching in one of the four cameras, that's right, four cameras now, set up in this studio.

That Jesse controls right there. The one that's on you right now. Four cameras. This pedestal of pundits. I don't know. Punditry. Punditry. You might say.

How can anyone? How? How can anyone not give the crown to one Tyson motherfreaking Barry? Well, the first person just did it. No, you gave it to Keith. I gave it to Sheldon Keefe. Yeah. And then I was like, take it away, Adam.

Guys, Tyson Berry, and again, he wouldn't have done this if it wasn't for Sheldon Keefe. Literally no. However, he still has to do it. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, he was given the freedom, but he could have been like, you know what, I'm scarred. And I'll never do it again. I'll never be Tyson Berry the rover again. Wasn't it obvious that heading into that game against Arizona, that team had one mission,

and it was to get Tyson Berry a goal? Yeah, I think so. I think they all want him to stick around. It's like, it's almost like the Leafs are like, hey, listen, we know, listen, you are the best right-handed defenseman we've ever had. We want you to stick around. Let's get you some goals and let's get you back on board and you'll make your money and then walk away.

And Spezza. And Spezza. And Spezza. Like, just, sorry, keep going. Well, I, okay. Keep going. Here's what I love about it. We're going to get into it, folks.

What I love about Tyson Berry, and I'm going to be real quick about this because we do need to actually break down the game outside of this. I give him the crown because it was not only like a monkey off his back and it was exciting and the coach let him do it, whatever. There is a, it seems now, a genuine fire, passion, desire to win and do it again here. The whole team. The whole team. Which is why I pass it to Jesse, because I'd like to get his crown in.

I feel like we might know who it's going to be. I don't know. And then we'll get into the actual breakdown of the game. What game number is this? 25. This was game number 25. Listen, Jesse, I'm going to make a request, okay? Because you've been getting very flippant with your crowns

Alright Just hand them out willy nilly Yeah Literally willy nilly Literally You didn't even notice he did that Whoever you give your crown to You better make sure

They're on pace for a career high In goals and points Alright Well that's a check I can check that off the list Yeah? Okay. Should they rank 12th or higher in goal scoring for guys paid $6 million to $7.5 million?

They should. They should. That's a good requirement. The crown means something, Jesse. You know, I'm going to give it to a specific player. All right. But first, I think my crown should go to LFR25. Because LFR25

In between all of the Breaking down each goal Which you might have gotten in incorrect order I don't even know I'm literally going off of one tweet that I saw I uploaded it, took the dogs on a walk, drove here And now I'm talking In between all of those weird goals

In whatever order they were You stopped And you decided to break down a question That you were asked What was that question, Jesse? Why is William Nylander so great? Was the question I don't think that was it.

It wasn't the question in so many words. But Steve, what did you do on today's LFR? Someone asked, I believe the question, Jesse, was, what do you think about William Nylander's play so far, and is he living up to the contract? And I admitted to chastising William Nylander recently. However... One of the dumbest things ever said on this show,

and we've said a lot of dumb stuff... Right. Backpack full of weights. was that William Nylander needs to be more clutch. That was said last episode by two men I'm sitting next to. Now! I think you're getting very flippant with the wording again. But that is all right.

Now, when there are 18 guys being paid $11 million ahead of William Nylander on this roster. He's the seventh best player on the team. Is it his responsibility to be Mr. Clutch? Can I hear that for a few minutes? Seventh best player on the team. That's not bad. He always leans back when he says it.

Can you look into the camera? Don't understand. Don't tie my tie. That's not bad Berkey at all. Berkey is terrible. His Berkey's good. You sound like Dick Sheldon Keefe and look like Baldwin

Donald Trump. Alright, anyway. Jesse, I think you asked me a question. Yes, go ahead. And it was, what question was I asked? Is William Nylander living up to his contract? So what I did was I went on capfriendly.com and I found all the forwards making between $6.5 and $7.5 million, which I thought was very fair. William Nylander makes $6.96, barely under $7. And Nylander's right in the middle.

Actually, just about top half in terms of points per game. He's currently on pace for 26 goals, which would be a career high. He's on pace for 62 points, which would be a career high. We talked about how he needs to step up in absence of Mitch Marner. Now, the Leafs in general have been terrible since Mitch Marner went down. However, in the eight games since Mitch Marner's gone down, William Nylander has eight points. Guy stepped up.

He's doing about what Kyle Conner's doing in terms of production. I don't hear anyone talking about that contract. Quick list of the guys. He has more points than Ajo, Backstrom, Hoffman, Giroux, Larkin, Oshie, Wheeler, Arvidsson, Kessel. Quick list. It's not bad. He's going to stay above Arvidsson, and we'll get to that later. Four to six weeks, unfortunately.

Also, Kessel's been having a terrible year. I didn't realize that until just before... Pittsburgh unloaded him at the right time, unfortunately. Maybe. That trade did not yield a lot for either side. Anyway, so yeah, the question, your conclusion. William Nylander has absolutely, so far, lived up to his contract. Everyone talks about, like, the Mount Rushmore of contracts on the Leafs.

No, there's three heads on that mountain. It's Matthews, Tavares, Marner. William Nylander is not on that mountain. He makes under $7 million. Two of them make $11 or above, and another makes just under $11. He's not, stop expecting him to be them. He's performing the way a $7 million player performs in this league now. He's a top six forward, and he's usually going to be five or four.

Or probably maybe four to six in that top six range. You know? That's it. And he's been excelling in that role. I think it's also legitimate to say Nylander on a different team would score more points. Yeah. Even though he... Like Connor Brown on a different team.

I mean, yeah. But even though he plays with Matthews, He'd be on most teams top power play unit And he is currently With the Leafs but as soon as Marner comes back I'm hoping he won't be Because I'm hoping it's Marner slotted back in And they keep Barry up there

For the love of God Right so I think he's doing just fine based on the money he's making And there's my crown By proxy Through Steve To William Was I your crown translator?

Yes. My crown by proxy goes to William Nylander through Steve Dangle. That's who wore the crown for this week. Brought to you by our friends as always at Crown Royal. And next time the puck drops, why not? Why not? Live generously. Treat your friends and your Leafs crew to a Crown Royal old-fashioned.

First thing I want to address. Elliott Friedman's mustache. It's gross. Oh, yeah. And I freaking love it. But it's disgusting. The fact that it goes kind of around his lip halfway but not all the way. He must know, right?

He must know. He knows. He knows. He grew that beard two summers ago. Yeah, that's right, Elliot's summer beard. He wakes up in the morning and looks in the mirror and goes, how could I make this as upsetting as possible? And he makes it so.

He favorited my tweet about it last night. Oh, he did? I said, I got to say, Freed, your mustache is terrifying. Never shave again. I want him to keep it. The fact that they let him go on national television like that is, it's magical. Oh, my God.

Absolutely. The fact that Sean McKenzie has, like, the best mustache on the network is disgraceful. Didn't Bob used to have a mustache back in, like, the 80s when he started? Gino Retta had a legendary mustache. I don't know about Bob. He had a... Gino Retta, it was like your shirt. Like, there was no hairs or break in it at all.

It was just a black strip across his face. Oh, yeah. Like Bert's eyebrows. He's got, like, Sean McKenzie's looks like a hamster on a top bunk. Like, it's just, like, it's just, it's solid, man. It's great. It's unbelievable. Did I spit in your face there?

Yeah, that's all right. No, you didn't. Thank God. Oh, my God. It's just, it's great. By the way, I was tweeting about that new Tesla truck, and Sean's like, Sean apparently tweeted me, and then I didn't see it, and then he tweeted back a couple hours later. He was like, great talk, man.

Oh, no. Great chat. Sorry, man, I didn't see it. That truck's stupid. It looks it looks like a car from twisted metal that truck is not stupid It's amazing and it's exactly why I would get it if I had the money to get a car from twisted metal That's the dream. It's that PS2 graphics. That's why we all work hard. Why why did we work hard if not to live in a video game? Fair enough. Right?

I'm gonna park it on your I know mrs. Dangle hates it so I will definitely bring it over and park it on your front lawn. Can't wait I can't wait as long as you get it in bright yellow. Oh 100% Nashville Predators yellow Gino Retta's mustache is up on the screen right now, by the way. Look at that legend. Now, is Bob McKenzie's? I couldn't find anything. Okay.

I thought he did. I'll do a quick Google search again. I thought he did. Maybe, I don't know. I used to have that Gino Retta face on a mug until I broke the mug by accident. You know what? Because I'm me. Maybe that's one of those things we tweet at Bob.

Because occasionally Bob will get back to you. Show me your mustache! Actually, I want to look at one of his books because he's got some old pictures in his books. And the only reason I say that is because my one buddy, he's always talking about that book, and the only reason he talks about it is because he's in one of the pictures. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, that's funny.

Like, he happened to be on a team. I think he was coaching, or he played with Sean. I can't remember. Oh, Whitby! So the first thing was, obviously, Elliot Friedman's mustache. The second thing is the last two games. And forgive me for making this statement if you didn't agree. But if you didn't agree, I don't know if we could get along.

those could be two of the most enjoyable games of hockey i've seen since 2017 easily easily those were forget forget the systems forget how they are in defense forget who scored enjoyable to watch entertainment that's entertainment well and that comes with scoring first which they did once and scoring i want to say four times in seven minutes or 11 minutes the best part of last night's game, though, was the final three minutes. When they pulled the goalie, and you got to see the abs go to work,

and then the Leafs just kind of bailed themselves out. It was insane. It was great hockey. Austin Matthews almost made me pull out my hair, though, when he just sort of flipped me. He could have had that blasted out of the zone so quickly. Little king. Whatever that was. I love Austin, but

under 18? Well, yeah, they had the lead the whole time. Austin, man. But I want him out there in those situations The only way he turns into this Jonathan Tays That Babcock wanted him to turn into Which he's not I still want him to turn into something like that

Yeah sure He's not going to be as defensively strong As Jonathan Tays But my point is Put him out there in those situations So he does goof up and then learns Because what skilled players do is they learn And they learn by doing

And Nylander had a really key faceoff There in the defensive zone with about three minutes to go. He faced over Nylander. Get out. Because he's good at them. The both of them still, though, they float too much.

Yes. They float around in the defensive zone a little too much, the both of them. Those glide around for a little bit and you'll lose them and then they're not really playing the puck. It's interesting. They're playing their roles.

You talk about playing without the puck. I think Matthews and Nylander are excellent at playing without the puck in the offensive zone. Yes. They're so good. They know how to get open, especially Matthews.

Yeah, get open, stick lifts. That's a key thing with this team Is when they're going They're stick lifting wizards And they're so annoying to play against In their own zone if they don't have the puck Forget it, it's trouble It's like they're like, oh I don't want to do this

A little bit I know they're not actually thinking that Because they're professional athletes I think they're worried about Really being out of position Which leads to them being out of position That is I've seen so many bad tendencies

just dissolve in two games, but that is one I can't help but notice. Once the other team establishes possession in the leave zone, all they gotta do is send it up to the point where no one is, they find a way to pass it around, and then it's in there for the next 30 seconds minimum.

Honestly, last night, and we're gonna start with Arizona, but before we get to Arizona and then we'll get to Colorado, I felt just like Kale McCarr to Kale McCarr to Kale McCarr. It was just Kale McCarr. He should just win the Calderon. He's won it. He's won it.

But one thing about those shots is since in the two games, smallest sample size ever, they've been getting the exact same amount of shots from the points, the other teams, but the high danger shots have dropped dramatically. Arizona was a good example of that. I never really felt like they were much of a danger. But they have the same amount of shots. It's just they're not threatening, which is great. And it's such a quick change.

So here's the thing. After that Arizona game, tell me how you felt after that because you're cautiously, you're excited cautiously optimistic though right you want to see it again well it's one game and that game pulled them to 500 yeah that's how bad it's been so barry's first goal the bench reaction was great uh barry's first goal ang ball's first goal spezza reaction was great and didn't i say that though didn't i say something like all those previous teams they had the magic of first career nhl goals and everyone just losing their mind every player on the bench is losing their mind for someone scoring their first NHL goal.

And the thing about having a bit of a more experienced team is you get fewer of those. Right? Has Sandin gotten one? I don't think he's got one. No. Right? And they would have lost their mind for that.

Call it pure Engvall. First game. Come on. Tavares' speech in the dressing room was great. Or second. I didn't know Tavares knew. I didn't know that he knew swear words. But he knows some swear words.

He's an hockey player. Yeah. Every now and then you go, oh yeah, he played in the OHL when he was 15. Like, think about that I turned 15 at the end of grade 9 That's when he was playing in the OHL Learning God knows what What's the highest age you can play in the OHL?

21 21, but like Only if you were born in a certain month So he could have been playing with 21 year olds at 15 Yeah, it's a little It's slightly fucked It maybe shouldn't be allowed It's very rare that they allow 15 year olds to play

But yeah, you could be like an early high school student getting crushed by a fully grown man a man at 30 or University Yes. Yeah. Yes. I was 21 when I went to the Olympics You went to the what did what did you want comedian? friggin figure skating Almost getting arrested Keep got the game pot the players reaction. That was great, too It was, it was a bit, it was a bit, it was weird because you watch him get the game puck and the reaction was like, it was like a roar, but it didn't seem phony.

It wasn't like the typical NHL. Like it was like, they were like jacked. It was, that was weird to me. That was really weird. Another telltale sign. And kudos to him. Okay. And a good weird, by the way, just want to throw that.

And by the way, I read the ice chart wrong. Matthews did hit 20 minutes last night. Oh, he did? I thought that was strange. Okay. That's okay, so am I. If you're going to interview a Leaf, who are you talking to? Who am I talking to?

Yeah, okay, coach just got fired. Do you want to interview a leader? And you get one shot at one guy. One shot at one guy. It is not Riley and not Tavares because they're boring. Okay, so there's two. Mitch Marner. You're going to talk to Mitch Marner.

Well, he's not playing. That's going to be Austin Matthews. A leader, right? There's Austin Matthews. Well, those are your four leaders, right? Are they not? No, you've got to pick up anybody on the roster. Oh, you told me leaders.

Okay. My game is different I like Jesse's better Pick anyone on the roster You gotta pick someone who's been here a while Yes You gotta pick somebody who has Something to say

And that's what I'm trying to figure out Because Nylander's not going to say anything Matthews really has anything to say Tavares is pretty boring Morgan Rielly was thanked in Mike Babcock's statement So you know that they were buds Three very specific people We'll get to that too

Holy smokes There's a lot to unpack And So you know Doesn't it feel like Our last show was last month Yeah it does A year ago

Oh yeah I would talk to Nick Shore Mike Babcock's favorite I'm kidding I have no idea He was not playing Against Arizona Yes

But he did play last night Yes You know what No I think I think the guy to talk to Is probably gonna be The guy I'm interested in Is Austin Matthews

And the reason is It's not What he says it's what he doesn't say. So if you can get a quote from him that's a read-between-the-lines quote because you know there was some sort of disconnect there,

then you got your quote. That's the correct answer in my books. Sean McKenzie, before Keefe's first game, has one shot at one player. He picks Travis Dermott. I would have never thought Travis Dermott.

Okay, that's smart. You want to pick an ex-Marley. Or are you going to call a guy who he didn't even play all that much during the Calder Cup run. He was injured, facing a lot of injuries. Why not talk to the MVP of that run? Yeah. Why not talk to Andreas Janssen? You could talk to him. Yeah.

Why not talk to Zach Hyman? That guy's like sort of loosely part of the leadership core, right? He played under Sheldon Keefe. Why not? Travis Dermott had something to say. What did he say? I missed that. What is it about Sheldon Keefe? McKenzie

loosely said. What is it about Sheldon Keefe and Travis Dermott said matter of factly boys want to play for him and if that's not it in a nutshell man like I listen did they set that up beforehand holy shit with this no they didn't that is a sledgehammer yeah it's in hockey quotes anyway all the Babcock stuff uh and we'll get to some of the stuff that's over the top I'm sure yeah but uh all the rumors we heard has the reaction of the first two games not confirmed almost all of it. Almost all of it. Seriously.

The guys gave up on him. They didn't want to play for him anymore. Tyson Berry, he didn't want to use him the way that Kyle Dubas wanted to use him. Other guys in the lineup, eh, no. Jason Spezza, I don't want to use him. We knew he wasn't going to use Jason Spezza after one

preseason game in which Jason Spezza was arguably the best player. It was a style of coaching that didn't work for this team. Yeah. Yes. It worked for the first five years Like he got them to this point He didn't even make it five years Jesse You don't believe Babcock didn't make it five years

So here's the breakdown So Steve was If you go back and listen to last week's episode Or Wednesday's episode There's a shouting match Between all of us I've made more videos over the past Four days than I have calls to my parents

I love you mom and dad if you're watching this Holy smokes And one of the things we talked about Is like why haven't they done it yet? So apparently according to CJ Chris Johnson, I was listening back to your points They were really good Sorry guys, I was just eating. Were you unreasonable in the moment? You're like, but like the Board of Governors.

And I'm like, fuck that. They were going to be different. They promised me other things. I was lied to. So, when I read what CJ said, and there's some good stuff in there about what happened. The one thing that they decided on keeping Babcock, what kept him there was Game 5 last year. They were really happy about Game 5 against the Bruins. That was so, so concerning when I heard that.

Like, we were talking about that three-game sample size. Oh, let's see how the next three games go. You're going to base it on three games? Okay, I know the Leafs played a good first five games of the playoff series against Boston, which, by the way, that's where the bar is. play a good most of the series and lose it. Are we going to ignore that they were shit

for four months leading up to that series? I think the point is... They were garbage. It was like, okay, they played well up to game five, and game five specifically is what they were talking about. It wasn't even the games before that. It was game five. They were probably like, you know what? We got a coach that's 700 wins. They played good in game five. Let's just see how it goes.

You go up 3-2 in a playoff series. The puck can bounce anyway in two games. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, and I get that. And we don't need to go back down the road because we yelled about it for 45 minutes last episode.

I think the point is, you're absolutely right. The reaction, not only on the ice, but off the ice and on the bench, like dressing room bench ice has been 100%. This is, this is the right thing. Even Shanahan, like not very somber. Dubas looked like a new person. His shoulders were a little lower. Yep.

You know what I mean? Yeah, they weren't up around his ears. Yeah, it's not tense. Keef didn't look like a guy who was surprised. No. Did he? He knew this was coming. Come on now.

You could smell it. You could. And in the last episode, I mean, we even said it. They're going to do it. We said it before we knew it. And it was actually, I got a couple of messages from people privately who said, you knew. And I said, nope. Did not know.

They're like, no, but you knew. And we're like, no, we didn't. Appreciate that. But we did not know. You know, the game last night was a really big one Because To me, and this was the key The team in

Was it 16-17 when they made the Caps playoffs? Yes So that team would get scored on first all the time Right? And they'd blow leads all the time And that happened all the time, no problem Well, Austin Matthews was scoring first For the entire team that year as well It was ridiculous

It was just a gunfight every game so what happened last night is 30 seconds in Freddie lets in a soft goal which happens

and Freddie's not a guy that lets in soft goals all the time so you're not like mad about it it's not like Vesitascula from the other

blue line one thing that was also fun about that was Steve's twist of logic to not blame Freddie for it and blaming

the shooter for just being good and planning to do that oh I didn't say that it's knuckleball time I didn't say that is not the first thing

No, but like... Well, Ken Reed said something recently that made me sort of... You ever have something that completely interrupts your way of thought? Sure. And he was talking about broadcasters used to just talk about... I host a show with him, actually. Yeah. Yeah.

They used to... Shut up. Ken Reed just goes, broadcasters used to just talk about how good a goal was. And when Gretzky scored a goal, it was, hey, look at what Gretzky did. It wasn't, look at the idiot defender in front of him. And so I tried to do that.

The problem was that was the goal I tried to do it with. That's not the goal. It was a bad goal. And I thought, time and place, Steve. But like, JT Comfer's not scoring that goal, I don't think. Yeah. I think you might have scored that goal. I got a dart.

What are you saying? So the point here, let's not get held up. I got a laser beam. I just thought that was interesting. The point is, 30 seconds and they get scored on against a very good Avs team. The Leafs of last Saturday night would have packed it up. Yep. And what was interesting is the team that we saw in 2016-2017 were too young to understand what going down early meant.

That's why they did it all the time. They didn't understand that it made their life harder. They were like, well, I guess we're just going to have to score a bunch of goals. And they did. They're used to playing in the OHL and shit. There was an OHL game like two weeks ago that ended 11-10. Right. That's the kind of hockey I want, man.

It's fun. So maybe 7-6. But the point is, the point is, the Leafs come out, and by the end of the period, it's 3-1. 4-1. 4-1. And I think specifically the goal that stands out to me is the Matthews goal because of the 15-foot-long toe drag that he pulled backwards, shot in.

Beautiful shot. And obviously the Tyson Berry one was an emotional one. That was great. And it was nice to see him get that. But the Austin Matthews one is big because that's your big goal scorer in a game where you went down early against a very, very good opponent. A very strong, well-made team. They're going to win the West.

I think so. They're going to win. Like there was a two-on-one where it was Don Skoy and I think he missed the net or Freddie got a piece of it or something. If that's Landeskog or Rantanen like it usually would have been, it's a goal. And the point, I think, here is that they're able to now look at situations like that and go, OK, we'll get it back. The Leafs?

The Leafs. We saw a team that we have not seen since, remember when they first went into dead hockey, which was, I think, the first season that they lost against Boston, not 2013, 2017-18? 17-18 was the first one. So they started that season with just wild, like the first three months were just nuts. And they shut it down. They get to January and they shut it down. It was one of the most dry, boring three-month stretches of hockey I've ever watched in my life.

All of last year was like that. And then these two free-flowing games. And you realize what this team can do. And what was amazing, too, is they're cycling back out of the zone. And they started that in the first game. Rather than give up the puck to change, they'll cycle it back into their own zone, then change, maintain possession, and come back out. And what used to drive me fucking crazy was they would just,

it would be like Nikita Zaitsev just firing a bomb, icing it, and they're trying to change. They forced a lot of icings out of Arizona, I noticed. Yes, they did. And they do these things, they're doing these little things that were so easy and they were always so capable of, and they just had a coach that didn't want to do it. And I think watching it now, you realize, oh, my God,

the skill on this team is on. They were playing keep-away. It was like the Harlem Globetrotters at certain points. He's trying to bake a cake with cayenne and shit. Like, man, make something that you have the ingredients for. Yes. You know what I mean? Now, and I'm not trying to take away from the Avs,

who dominated the second period. Absolutely dominated. Came out on fire. And third. The Leafs have a real issue, still, with stopping a cycle. They just cannot do it. I don't know what they need to do to learn that. I don't know if I've ever watched a hockey team that...

Because I watch the Leafs mostly. I don't know if I've ever watched a Leafs team that could shut down a cycle. I don't know if I've ever seen a Leafs team be able to do it because they've been bad, they were bad for 15 years, and the last three they've made the playoffs. And they still couldn't do it. And last game was, the Arizona game to me was a far better indicator of what this team is going to be. Because you're not going to be up 4-1 after the first in most games. And score effects come for absolutely everybody.

So, of course they were in their shell. I also like that they don't back off now. I mean, they backed off a little bit against Colorado, but what I saw with Arizona when I re-watched the game was that they didn't back off on playing offensively. What they started to do as early as Austin Matthews and Mitch Marner and William Neal ended up playing for the team was they would get the lead, and then they'd back off

and let the other team in. There was no back off, which I liked, and I think that's going to be really important going forward. So, you know, these first two games are great. You know, it's a nice thing, but they've got to keep this up. It's four points is what it is. It's four points. It's fantastic.

Now, Kerfoot on Eric Johnson. Yeah, he's got a hearing. He's got a hearing. Would be shocked if he didn't get suspended for that. He's got to get a game for that. And he got, someone rightly pointed out, he sort of got away with one against Max Domi earlier in the season. Can't do that. He got a penalty, I think, but he didn't, I don't think he got fined or suspended or anything.

It was interesting seeing the entire Colorado bench call for five minutes. I'm surprised this is not what it's like. I definitely thought it was going to be five minutes, and everybody did, and they called it two. It's very weird. I'd be curious to know what the reasoning was. Does he blame it on my depth perception screwed up because of the gear he's got on his face? Or does he say, listen, I played with that guy for two or three years, whatever it was. I didn't mean to hurt him.

You saw that when he immediately went down and was like, oh, crap. Well, then it's not murder. It's still manslaughter. Right. Well, yeah. You still got to go to jail for that. You got to serve the penalties, though. I don't know if it was malicious intent.

It doesn't matter. But he had numbers the whole way. Yeah. Like, Bortuzzo, which we'll get to, malicious intent with a history. Yeah. Kerfoot, I could see non-malicious intent, especially because he's not a guy that would get suspended very often. However, the results are still the results. You got to keep down your hand.

Kerfoot's a little bit of a rat, though. Yeah. A little bit. Yeah, well, we need a little bit of a rat. The more I watch him play, the more I'm like, he's a bit of a cadre replacement. You know what was interesting is that I loved seeing, so obviously the abs were pissed at him, because it's always interesting when you see a player go up against another team that they used to play for for years, and then the team gets mad at them.

And it's always sort of fun because it's sort of an awkward anger. it's like I'm like when they when they pushed Kerfoot around afterwards it's like I really like you but I fucking hate you right now and the first guy to get in his face was Kamenev yeah and my first thought was I feel like they played together but only a little right and so he's looking for cues from the rest of the team like do it do I punch him am I supposed to do you want to punch him and do any of us punch him and I don't know if you noticed this too when Eric Johnson was talking to the ref at the bench saying it should have been five minutes he like the ref skated away and he's like sprayed Gatorade

out. I saw that! Yeah, yeah. I saw that. You didn't get him. Yeah, no, of course not. Now the other side of this was, and this is not Nazem Kadri's fault, but Travis Dermott pushed Nazem Kadri into Freddie Anderson. Freddie Anderson was already pissed about the bent mask thing. Yep.

And Freddie Anderson and Kadri Kadri's like, I didn't do anything! And Freddie's like, F you man! And I've never seen in the entire history of Freddie Anderson in the Leafs jersey. And I don't know if Ducks fans, maybe you saw it. I've never seen him mad. I've never seen him legitimately mad.

Remember, oh God, I think it was two seasons ago, could have been last year, Freddie, after a game, basically chastised the whole team. And I want to say the player at the center of it was Kadri, actually. And then supposedly... Yeah, I remember he said that. It was something about effort, wasn't it? Yeah, there was some play where I think he cost him the game, and I want to say it was Kadri. And then CJ wrote this thing.

It was about Freddie, Austin, and Riley all went on vacation together because that quote came right before the bye week. And then they all went away. So maybe there's something there, but, I mean, they're teammates as well. Or ex-teammates. Also, underrated storyline, Barry's still living in Kadri's place. Yeah, in Kadri's mother's place. And Kadri's living in Barry's place.

That's wild. Yeah. When you come through, do you stay at your own house, or do you stay at the team hotel? Do you think Barry stayed with Kadri? No, I think he stayed at the team hotel, right? He had to stay with the team. Yeah, Tyson got into the other bed, okay, goodnight, and turned off the lamp. I don't know, I don't know.

I have to say, watching Nathan McKinnon is just breathtaking. What fun. I'm so jealous of, I mean, Avs fans, we're all so blessed with a lot of talent here, too. We haven't seen it lately, but watching Nathan McKinnon just be Nathan McKinnon and watching Cale McCarr feed him, wow. McCarr is a terrifying player, but should the All-Star game not just be McKinnon and McDavid in a bunch of different races? The correct answer is the All-Star game should not exist.

Well, there's that. Well, how about we just make them race then? Maybe. Hey guys, only two players have to show up. We call it the All-Star race. Oh my god. Make them do a lap. Make them do

A bag skate Make them do A lap with the puck Yep Who did he Who did he embarrass Like out in front Or was he like

Along the goal line All of them Early I forget who it was I'm trying to Any team he plays against ever There was one play Where he dusted Kapanen

And I was just like Jesus Christ Yeah There was another one I don't remember if it was him But Riley Got left in the dust Pretty hard

Nathan McKinnon's a monster He's crazy He's a top five player In the league I hope And wouldn't it be I mean listen The Leafs still have to

Make the playoffs We know the Avs probably will But Wouldn't it be fun A Leafs-Avs Stanley Cup final It is Cause it would be

High flying and wicked Rather than slow And trudging And we're going Into the trenches boys This would be full on Like Oh yeah

We're just We're just gonna throw our Throw our shit at each other And see what happens And the Avs can do that Like the They can grind you? Oh yeah

They can do that They led the league In penalties last year I'm pretty sure They're uh They were the antithesis of the Leafs They were the team that I always brought up When we talked about the officiating with the Leafs

Oh, how weird, the Leafs take the fewest penalties And also draw the fewest penalties Go to the Avs, they drew the most And took the most And that's because they equalized them They equalized them, which is super stupid It's so stupid It's one of the dumb things about the NA show

One of them, CJ always talks about How fun it'd be to watch the Leafs versus Tampa I think Leafs Colorado would be what we all think Leafs-Tampa would be. You know what I mean? Just break next beat. I don't get a good feeling about Leafs-Tampa. Well, they're both...

I don't think either team is in the playoffs right now, so we don't have to worry about that. Yeah, that's true. That's a good point. Leafs are a little bit closer because they won two straight and the Avs coughed up a 4-0 lead. Tampa has 24 points, but also five games behind Leafs in terms of games played.

Yeah, I think Tampa will be all right. Leafs have some work to do. Probably. I remember. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Well, I was going to say a few years ago, the Leafs were like a point or two behind Boston for the longest time, and they had five games in hand.

And I remember they wasted it. They completely. Yeah. But that, again, see, this is the thing. When your schedule condenses, it gets harder, man. We're going to get into the Keefe stuff and the Babcock stuff and the follow-up from all of that in just a second. But first, Jesse.

Hello. You're buying Steve a gift. Oh. And you need to use thoughtful.co. I love it. Thoughtful. Uh-huh. Full of thought.

Some word. It's one word, excuse me. Thought, but F-U-L-L, .co, .co, okay? If you're from England, .co is part of your life, .co.uk. This is just .co. So here's the deal. You go to that website, and the first question you're asked is, who's the gift for? So I'm putting in Steve, okay?

Okay. So Jesse. You put my name? Who is Steve to you? Is that how we're? Yeah. Is he your partner, friend, sibling, mother, father, parent, colleague, or someone else? Parent.

He's your parent. No, no, no. What was the... Partner, friend, sibling, mother, father, parent, colleague, or someone else? Can we do someone else? You don't want him to be your parent? All right. I'm curious to see what someone else would be.

I'm special. Okay. Now, what is the occasion? Is it birthday, anniversary, just because, thank you, holiday season, host, wedding, something else? Just because. Whoa. Yeah.

All right. All right. All right. Now, how would you like Steve to feel? Appreciated? Inspired? Adventurous? Surprised?

Or relaxed? Relaxed. Yeah, Steve needs to be relaxed. Is that possible? See, that's why this gift is going to be really special. Okay, now tell me about, we've got some interest for Steve, okay? Okay. Three to five.

And then what we're going to get here is a curated list of things that you can get Steve. And you can get them today. Oh, cool. That's the best part with Thoughtful.com. Like same day delivery. Yes. Or I got to go pick it up. No, no, no.

It comes to your house, and then you can give it to Steve. Let's say you're going to Steve's house tonight, and you're like, you know what? I've got to bring something, and I want to make the guy feel good, and he needs to be relaxed. You will be able to pick from a curated list, you'll be able to order it, and then it will show up at your door. Do I have my plane tickets ready? Because I have to go out to Oshawa. Oh, man, that's true. Do you get your passport?

There's an airport just north of my house, and I have considered using it once, just to see. Can you actually fly out? I don't think you can. I think you need to own the plane, but I'm gonna work on it. You could go, yeah, Billy Bishop to Oshawa Airport. Can you? I don't know. I would think.

Let's try it. You're gonna be some kind of rich guy. I see all these Trevor Phillips from GTA 5 planes flying over my house. Maybe stop complaining about the commute. Get yourself a helicopter. Oh my god, if I could just fly above everything because I hate traffic, just turn into Bill Burr, get my helicopter's license just because I'm like, I hate LA! Is that what he did?

Yeah. That is literally what he did. Oh, smart for him. That's great. So he doesn't take it like that. So would you say self-care is something that Steve is into? Zombies do. Interest-wise?

We're picking three to five here. Self-care, no. No. Okay. Creativity. Yes. Okay. Creative guy.

Beauty? No. No. Not beauty. Cooking? No. Home? Yes.

Okay. Steve likes his house. Foodie? Yeah. Okay. Steve likes a good sandwich. Travel? Not really.

Coffee? Yes. Is it good? It's good. Okay. Design? No. Wine?

No. Bar? Yes. Okay. oh so that if you give them five rather than three gives you a few more options right there's lists to choose from and here's the great thing what's the great thing with thoughtful you will get curated apps so a recipe for comfort in for the foodie in your life there are 16 gifts in that list there is coffee gifts brewed for relaxation 12 gifts in that curated list by andrea there is

an artist repose basically something for the creative person in your life and it could go from anything from books to uh they've got oh my god they've got uh leather-bound pens and journals they've got record players they've got a guide to better living and you can buy any sort of thing that you want or any combination of thing that you want curated by somebody who narrowed it all down for you and that's the key right when you're buying like when you're buying on one of these big websites which you know everybody does the big thing can be uh what do i where do i even start right what do we look at so these are things that go together kind of like a really great dinner right you got you got your main you got things that go with it ingredients yeah and then and

then they're like well i've included this and this and this and you're like i didn't know those two went well together but they do so thoughtful.co check them out for all your gift giving needs and especially around the holiday season it's gonna it's just gonna make things easier for you And that's the key. Make it easy, make it smart, and make it time efficient. You're busy. Don't waste time. Thoughtful.com.

That's all I've got to say. Now, let's get into the Mike Babcock stuff. That felt nice. Because I don't know, like, you know, you're going to hear, I don't know if we need to go more into the games. The games were fun to watch. Yes. The reactions were fun to watch, and you said something, and I want to repeat it. The reaction from the players said it all.

Yes. Now, we do know that Mike Babcock, according to Elliot Friedman, is going to take some time on what his job is going to be. But we do know this, and this is interesting. Sheldon Keefe phoned Mike Babcock after the coaching change. Those men had a nice conversation, and this is from Elliot, traded some notes on what had been going on with the team, and it's just a sign of the good relationship they had built

while working together inside the organization the last number of years. Mike Babcock also sent Keefe a text message after the Leafs won in his debut in Arizona, And I know that's something that Keefe really appreciated. Yeah. I think we, again, need to separate the difference between a coach that maybe doesn't manage players very well and a bad person. Right. Too many people are talking about Babcock like he's the devil himself. And maybe he's treated some players poorly.

Evidence suggests, yeah, he has. But can we stop talking about this guy Like he's a horrible person Obviously you've seen Mike Commodore's tweets forever And I don't know I don't know what there is to say about that Other than it's a little sad Do you have Mark Frazier's tweets?

I've got them right here So I'm going to read them So Mark Frazier Who never played for Mike Babcock Played for the Leafs Never played for Mike Babcock though Anyone who thinks at Commie22 Mike Commodore needs to lay off babs just doesn't understand how much players have how much hate players have for

him it's beyond him scratching commodore or saying he was out of shape nhl players are a very small population of athletes and people we share stories throughout the years with each other and those outside the locker rooms you will never fully understand some of the terrible undeserving things babs has done to some of his players you don't have to like all your coaches but he is one who 95 of players can't say a good thing about with the ability to end players careers he's chosen to do so to long serving vets that have resulted in all of his players turning against him. He's used his power to turn teammates against each other and chose continuously to lie to his players. Commodore may have strong public opinions of Babs, but in our fraternity of NHL and former

NHL players, he's speaking for the masses. He's speaking for the countless players who have personally told me their terrible stories of Babs just being a bad guy. He's speaking for all the Maple Leafs who wouldn't dare speak the truth right now, but damn sure want to. Commodore has so many players respect if only the outsiders in the hockey world knew the truth so that is that's great and our and and makes a ton of sense and is well put don't tweet out pictures of the guy moving out of his place you freaking psycho what's the matter with you right so that's mark frazier saying all the right things and if mike commodore had just said that i would have taken that totally fine and been like ha hadn't thought of it that way or ha some great points but you're

tweeting some pictures that someone sent you like like what a creep what a creep that's gross man yeah i'm not i'm not i'm not down with it and it spoke volumes to me so i was watching the spit and chiclets uh reaction to it and uh everyone was going oh you got to get commie on and they were they all sort of at the same time were like no

not right now I think they might at some point knowing our luck it's probably getting uploaded right now but something's wrong

with that guy the man selling t-shirts based off of Mike Babcock's fire pack your shit he sells

pack your shit t-shirts like is that is that new because he's always said pack your shit though are they

yeah it has Babs on it Which is amazing because I tried to sell a shirt that said Babcock be getting paid And they wouldn't let me He said Babs though He just said Babs So that's fine Also just literally William Nylander's face three times is also fine

But the actual word Babcock That's because it's his name That's a different level That's not a regular reaction You were an NHL player for god knows how long He climbed Didn't he climb, like, Mount Kilimanjaro or something, it says in his Twitter bio? Like, he's led a fascinating, fulfilling life.

Yeah, it says he summited Mount Kilimanjaro on 5-2-16. He's led a spectacular life by most people's standards, and his entire brand is hating one guy? Well, is it just a brand? Is it just a bit? I don't know. I think he really hates them. You know, also That'd be interesting if it was just a bit

As long as we're tracking all the breadcrumbs Like, one of Matthew's most recently tweeted pictures On his Twitter profile Is him tweeting at Mike Commodore Going, hey, thanks for letting me use your stall Because he was at something or whatever Why would you send that to someone everyone knows hates your coach's life and i want to say that was within weeks of the famous

arizona summit the first one between matthews and babcock why would you do that well because he was 20 uh yeah okay fine but like i just i just we pretended like everything was fine i think things have been rotten for at least two years with this team you know what i mean but uh uh commodore going that far is is it's ridiculous it's concerning man like oh i hate this guy oh let me tell you this story i'm down for all of that the the picture was way too far i think i think you can you can understand the point of view but you can question the method look okay we roasted a website called 25 Stanley for that famous picture

the Tampa Bay Lightning were in Montreal. Stamkos. What did I say? No, no, I said, I'm adding to your story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they were standing on a street corner looking into Stamkos' hotel room and they took a picture of him. What's the difference? What's the difference?

Just because he's the next NHL player, it's not creepy? It's just as weird. It's definitely just as weird, except Stamkos at least waved. He knew what was going on. That's a guy trying to move out of his house after getting fired. I don't know. That's creepy to me.

Well, and I got to say, I take umbrage with Mark Frazier. Okay. First off, you never played with him. Yeah. So it's none of your, it's not, this is not your story to tell, which he didn't tell any stories. So here's the, like if, like at least Commodore played for him, Mark Frazier never played for him.

And he's defending a guy who literally puts out rage porn. What Commodore is putting out there is rage porn. That's all that is. People love to see, and you can hate Mike Babcock. I don't care what your opinion on Mike Babcock is. It's the same people that retweet Donald Trump and burn him. Oh, I got Donald Trump. I made him look stupid, and I got 10,000 retweets.

That's funny because I know the specific people that do that. They're like, oh, I got the president. Oh, man, he's going to step down now. Sure got him. I tweeted, okay, boomer, at the president's account. Whoa! And I'm going to do the same thing to AOC. Yeah.

And I'm just, okay. No, like, like. Chill. Okay, that's outrage porn. Again, it's Sunday. Go do some other shit. Right. You're loving the fact that a successful, notable person, which Mike Babcock is,

is getting torn down by a guy who used to play for him. You love it. Sure. And there are a lot, actually, you look at the replies, actually, and they're not good. Commodore, like, it's decidedly people going, dude. They're not good because you're you. And Twitter's dimensions are catered towards you, though. So it's probably a lot of people that you follow who are like,

Like, the further down you scroll, you're going to get a lot of LMAOs and certain logos. But yeah, it's weird to see Mark Frazier, a guy who's uninvolved in the Leafs organization with the guys who are currently in it, coming to defend this NHL. And what Mark Frazier said might have been true. But Mark Frazier's not just defending what Mike Commodore, the essence of what Mike Commodore is saying. He's defending the specifics. He's saying, you think, you don't understand.

What do you mean? This is this goes beyond my Commodore could do this. I fucking hate Mike Babcock Here's why and you let it go which he has But he's been shit-tweeting the guy for years at what point does that become unhealthy and and Mark Frazier saying anyone who thinks Commodore needs To lay off Babs just doesn't understand. No my Commodore needs to lay off Babs for my Commodore's sake Yeah, she's brand you gotta move on Unless it's a bit and you're making money off it And then I guess you know I'm sure he needs it

But this is this is a lot of the problem that we have right now with with this is a social media issue But in this particular way, it's people going. It's it's honestly all this is is Real Housewives, but Hockey Edition You love the Real Housewives draw you are actually you know what a lot of people that listen to this show When we're talking about The Bachelor, and we're having fun with it people like that's bullshit. I hate that fucking show It's the same thing you guys are pussies. Why would you watch that you think this is any different? no this is a fucking reality show

and it's you know what it's toxic it's toxic Mike Commodore is not doing Mike Commodore any good

by doing this I don't know I'm just sitting here and I'm like and Mark Fraser I'm sorry but who and I don't like

how he framed it as you don't understand because you've never played in an NHL no fuck you man come on it's called real life come on

I will say I can understand what Mark Fraser is saying about people hating Mike Babcock. His point is I never played for him and even I know how bad it is. Great! Say that!

You can't defend posting a picture of the guy leaving his apartment. Yeah, that's where I'm like, I think what he said was legitimate. His timing and reasoning was horrible. If Mike Medano puts out and tweets, you know what, I don't like Mike Babcock, you know why?

Because my HockeyDB says 1,499 games played. I'd be like, concrete example, guy who could not like him. You know? But Mark Frazier's thing is... How about... I want to see a Players' Tribune article from Mike Medano about what it was like to sit in the press box

the night of what should have been his 1500th game. Yeah. I'd love to hear that. I would love to hear that. Mark Frazier is, I heard from some guys. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I'm going to defend this shit.

And for Mike Commodore, I feel like... I don't want to... No, I feel... No, no. I'm going to say it. I don't... This is my opinion. Mike Commodore needs to move on, man.

No, you're 100% right. Because Mike Commodore deserves better than this. How many years ago was that? In his life. Like, when... This is... Dude, it's at least 10. It's a lot.

He deserves better than this. He deserves not to have this anger in his world. Mark Frazier. Commodore deserves better than this. That's what I mean. Yes, yes, yes. I agree. Commodore deserves better from Mike Commodore.

Mm-hmm. Mark Frazier. Stay out of it. You didn't play for him. Sorry. Yeah. I understood the point he was trying to make. No.

But he... No. I think he bombed it. You're not the guy. He bombed it a little bit. You're not the guy, Mark Frazier Who I actually didn't mind when you played for the Leafs I enjoyed him

No, man, that guy broke his face Yeah, man, he was great For the team It's not And this isn't a personal attack on Mark Frazier I understand what he's saying I get where you're going But you didn't play for him

None of these stories are yours So you're just propagating hearsay And what good is that doing? Oh, you have to understand that a whole bunch of people hate Hate Mike Babcock We knew that, Mark We know that Detroit said that

You think Datsouk and Zetterberg and Lidstrom loved Mike Babcock? No. Didn't they? When, when, when, uh, who was still playing in, were Datsouk and Zetterberg were still in Detroit when Babs left, right? Uh, yeah. Or was it Datsouk, just Datsouk? I think, I want to say they, I want to say Datsouk and Babs left at the same time and

Zetterberg stuck around for one or two more years. One of the two of them said it was probably time. Yeah. And that was all you needed to know. I think that might have been Zetterberg. I felt didn't I read a quote from Dan Cleary

this past week that was like a little bit critical and I'm like oh my god he was the number one guy who I saw Red Wings fans complain about

going why is Babcock putting Cleary in the lineup and he had something to say I was like oh my god there's gotta be something here because of what Mark Frazier said

and because of what Mike Commodore has been saying for years and what's been whispered about moving to Mike Babcock for a second yes

Babcock did coach Datsouk and Zetterberg. Well, I know that, but I was just wondering if they were still there after he left. When Datsouk left, sorry, I phrased that wrong. When Datsouk left in 2015-16. That's when his contract was traded to Arizona.

That was Babcock's first year as a Leafs head coach. Okay, so it was probably Zetterberg then. Probably. Probably. Yes. Doesn't matter. Yes, yes. The point here is, let's move, let's shift the conversation away from Commodore and Frazier. I understand what both of them were saying i don't i don't particularly like the method either i don't like the method i don't

like this this outrage or this this this rage porn that's on twitter i really don't like it i don't like it when people do it for political reasons i don't like it when people um you know you could you could tell someone off online you'll never win but you can do it no and there was there was a lot of that with the bartuzzo stuff from like guys yeah you're wasting your day stop yeah but like it's like at a certain point it's like okay fine you got to put your opinion out there whatever but let's move on to what Mike Babcock is Mike Babcock is a good hockey mind fair

hockey mind yeah sure Mike Babcock as Mike Stevens said did not luck into 700 wins sure but at a certain point and I don't think Mike Babcock's the kind of guy to do this at a certain point you need to realize

when the game is passing you by there's I don't even think it's the game it's culture of the game It's response from players And Mike's a guy, doesn't he have a psychology degree? Something like that So he's always about mind games He's always a silent assassin sort of thing

Where he's messing with your head Everything that you say means something to him In some sort of way that he interprets it And what Mike Needs to do And I don't think he will But I think this is what Mike needs to do Is to go back to his ranch in Saskatchewan

Or go somewhere hot, wherever he enjoys it the most Maybe Michigan. And have a look at why everybody who's played for you hates you. Why is Mark Frazier... Well, damn, Adam, stop skirting around the issue. Why is three-year NHL vet Mark Frazier tweeting about how much everybody hates you, Mike? I feel like he's done a little bit of radio. I don't know.

I don't know what he's done. The point here is not Mark Frazier. The point here is not Mike Commodore. Mike Babcock, for the longevity of his career. Listen, Mike's made his money. He doesn't have to work again in a day in his life, neither do his kids. Mike is the kind of guy that needs to work, though, because he needs to have purpose in his life. Sure.

If Mike Babcock wants to be successful and contend with this generation, he's going to have to change. You can't tell me as an NHL owner GM, wherever you are, looking for a new coach. Let's say Calgary fires Bill Peters, which they're not, by the way. We'll get into that. Sure. And the next guy to walk through the door is Mike Babcock, which would just be hilarious. It'd be like Slapshot. Trade me right fucking now.

Don't tell me that this has not given Brad Trilliving or any other potential employer a little bit of pause. Oh, my God. Because when he was coming off of Detroit, it was like, yeah, the players are tired of him, whatever. But he's been there 10 years. And, yeah, I guess a coach's message can get lost. But now you've been in Toronto, under the spotlight, and everybody knows. No offense, Detroit. Different.

It's different. That is a big hockey market, though. Huge. Different. Not Toronto. But that's like saying, well, it's Boston and New York. New York's the bigger market. And I think Bostonians, you're not going to like it, but it is what it is.

Did we ever hear these stories when he was done coaching Team Canada? Like after those two weeks. It wasn't long enough. Yeah, but we'd never hear anything after those two weeks, right? It was kind of, it was fine. Well, other than that was the most boring gold medal game I've ever seen in my life in Sochi. Just awful. Oh, that was awful.

They won, though. I feel like you can stomach anyone for two weeks. Yeah. You know? Because those are all the top NHL players in one room, right? And you're winning. You're winning. You're winning.

But I think the point here, guys, is that for the longevity of Mike's career, and for the success that he hopes to continue to have, he cannot keep doing this and there's obviously something very wrong there's obviously manipulation at work there's obviously unfair practice at work it's obvious we don't have to question it it's sort of out there and it's because of guys like tommy and fraser whatever do you think well no adam it's all snowflake millennials that need to be coddled snowflake millennials like Mike Medano and Mike Commodore and Dan Cleary

and yeah, Henrik Zetterberg. Stop it. Stop it. It's a cross-age groups, folks. Yeah. I think if I am a GM in the NHL, yeah, he's got 700 wins, but I think

long and hard about bringing in a guy who has a reputation like that now because he has left. Now, the Leafs were not performing well. All of a sudden, boom, they perform well. It's not just that the players hate them. It's also, you watch the Leafs for the next 10 games

and see where Mike Babcock's reputation goes. I don't know how the Leafs are going to look for the next eight of the games, but we played two already. They look pretty good. It's like, you know how a player wants to get revenge over their former team? It's like they're getting revenge over their former selves. Exactly. I look at this, and somebody will hire him

Because there's 35 names in the coaching pool And they always go back to the same names But I look at this And go You know There could be something to this So Adam Does it make sense to hire

A coach who you know Has a bit of a Suspect past Wins a lot of fucking games Wins a lot of games And has a lot of very expensive years Left on his contract No.

That you don't have to pay. Well, you do, though. You have to pay some part of it. Once you hire them. No, the Maple Leafs make up the rest of it. Yeah, they make up the rest. Yeah, so you don't have to pay the full amount. Right.

The Maple Leafs also could choose. If a team goes, yeah, we'll offer you $500,000 and the Leafs will pick up the rest of it, the Leafs will go, no. Right. Yeah, no, there are certain rules against that. Yeah, the Leafs will be like, yeah, you pick up half or whatever, then they're in. But they can also choose to say no. I want to say there was something with Bilesma, or I can't remember who it was.

They can choose not to. But Adam, the guy I just described is John Tortorella. So there's a guy who I completely... I wrote him off. When Columbus hired him, I was like, are you out of your minds? He was coming off trying to fight the entire Calgary Flames team by himself. He got suspended. When was the last time you saw a coach get suspended?

For fighting. For fighting. Like, what decade is this? I couldn't believe it, and that team was such a mess. And I go, man, this happens with every team he's been with. It happened with Tampa, and he ran his course. It happened with New York, and he won a bunch of games, and he ran his course. In Vancouver, he didn't run his course.

It looked like there was this degeneration of John Tortorella. He gets to Columbus, and it started to come up again. And there was this story of, like, a one-player's meeting where they're like, coach back listen yeah we actually like you we actually and i've heard none of the same things like about tortorella that i've heard with babcock there were obviously the comments like about anthony duclair last year and stuff like that you know sort of throwing them under the bus but for the most part players like playing for him and they're like dude let us do all the crazy stuff you dial it back a bit and all of a sudden tortorella is like this like kind of

Likeable guy Happy-go-lucky Sort of grandpa figure Also let me throw out there Who could probably Kick your ass All the key free agents In Columbus left

That I think Is a money thing Also a Columbus thing Also a Columbus thing You might There might be something There Adam For sure

There might be something I think if they love the coach They'd stick around I think they tolerate him At very least I gotta tell you man They couldn't have Got out of there fast enough

It was like a foregone conclusion. He got into a fight with Bobrovsky mid-season. Duchesne's, well, there was that. Duchesne's wanted to go to Nashville.

Okay, you know what? Yeah, I'm not going to try to justify it. Duchesne's wanted to go to Nashville forever. Bobrovsky wanted to go to Florida since forever. Right, and they put

the full court press on. The guy's like, yeah, peace. You can't tell me it's just Columbus. But the other side was New York. It's like, okay,

Columbus, New York, and they're offering me the sun and the moon. You know, I think that was more circumstance. Columbus offered more money. How about this? They offered Mitch Marner money.

They offered him $13 million. Mitch Marner, $13 million. Yeah, but like, I don't think that was a Tortorella thing. I don't think Marner ever wanted to leave. Yeah. I think that was all just a farce. Oh, of course. You know what story we forgot about in all this?

Because there's actually so many, if you actually count them up, all the little Babcock breadcrumbs. Mike Green refused to come here. Yeah. In a trade. Mike Green refused to come because he had a locker room full of Red Wings telling him not to go and so did Val Philpula there's another one

how long is this breadcrumb road like I Hansel and Gretel up in this show like dude there's the whole forest is on fire it's not smoke there's something here

and again I'm not doubting what Commie and Fraser are saying I don't like the method it and sometimes i don't like the the person now it's not i don't like the person i don't like who it's coming from i want to hear from people that played for him and i want specific examples but i don't but i i i agree i think that there is a real issue here and i don't understand tell me how it's beneficial to mike babcock to make players hate you like you think about it in life how how many people really hate you right dislike yeah like don't have time for you even the shitty twitter

guys that you come after you i'm sure if they met you in person they wouldn't hate you i've done it before they might like they might be like hey i don't i don't like your hockey i don't like the way you deliver hockey i don't like your opinions fine but to hate you think about what it actually takes for somebody to hate you and and even your exes might hate you at first but do they do they hate you now five years later they probably don't hate you anymore no but these guys hate them years later. That's concerning. To give you a little context, I don't remember

if he was traded from Detroit to Tampa or Tampa to Detroit, but Commodore played for the Detroit Red Wings 17 games, right? It was 17 games in 2011-12. He stopped playing professional hockey in 2014

when he played for Vladimir, sorry, Vladivostok in the KHL. So his final two seasons Weren't even in the NHL We're going on We're inching closer To a decade here

The better part of a decade He's just It's reached a point where In whatever, if you want to call it generational Or societal The way Mike Babcock chooses to Manage people just doesn't work And especially with the team

That is currently the Toronto Maple Leafs these guys aren't going to be motivated by that. It worked kind of for the first three-ish years where it was a team who needed a boost. If that was the way they got the boost, then so be it. But it seemed like it just fell off last year, and then this year it was just the final straw. I said last episode, it's the Leafs needed a disciplinarian when they started.

Yes. They now needed inspiration. And he didn't realize that himself. No. Like he could never turn. I don't think that's what he can do. Right. because I don't think

I think Mike thinks that his way is the only way that Sean Fitzgerald story when he was on here it's fucking nuts it's because that was the whole

Don Cherry episode so that story kind of got lost that sent a chill down my spine and that's why I don't think this is the problem

I don't think Mike's going to sit back and actually do an inward focus but he should because Mike has too good of a hockey brain to waste on shitty management skills

and it's not hard to go out and pick up a few books on how to manage people. And it's not hard to go up and look at, and Mike's a numbers guy and a science guy and a mental health guy. Not hard to go and look that when you are talking about managing human beings,

you take money off the table because literally money as a motivator beyond meeting your needs, it stops being a motivator beyond just meeting your normal needs. That's what they found through science. So yeah, it sounds like, well, you know, if I can make $100,000 a year,

that'd be great. but then after that money's not really the motivator anymore you might like making money you might have a business it makes a lot of money the motivator then becomes who am i working for and what am i working for what's my purpose here what's the end goal and when you when you break it down and i'm i'm you know you can look this stuff up what they have found in studies is and i've said this before the guys that scare you will get 100 out of you for a while and then it'll dip to 80 and then 60 and then you'll say fuck off and you'll quit. That money number,

by the way, is $95,000. That's what the study says. Because your basic needs are met at that point. You can feed yourself. You don't have to fall into debt doing anything. You can have a car. You can have whatever, one vacation a year or something like that. You know what I mean? Whatever it is. Make the minimum payments on your student loans. There you go.

There you go. Whatever it is. The system's fucked, but we're going to ignore that and talk about sports. The point is if Mike was able to turn himself into an inspiration that number that 100%, 80%, 60% fall off

goes from 80, 100, 120 and up they want to play for you back to Travis Dermott and I think Mike Babcock needs to take a good hard look at why people hate Mike Babcock if the common denominator is you

everybody hates you then it isn't everybody's problem it's your problem It's like what we talked about. But we're going off of what we heard from, you know, Mark Frazier heard from a guy who heard from a guy. Well, I've had bosses I did not like. Sure.

But, like, I look back on them now, and, like, I don't really look back on them with any bitterness. I'd talk to them. I'd have a friendly conversation with them. I might even get a beer with them. Like, the word I would just use is taxing. Like the stories of Mike Babcock calling up all his players Throughout the summer Whenever I got a call from those old boys

Now I gotta talk to you I'm having a great day I look down at my phone My entire butt And it doesn't mean I hate them But I don't know that you can relate What is the word?

I don't think you can relate to hating a boss Interesting Okay These guys are using the word hate I've been very fortunate I have been very fortunate I think these guys are using the word hate

I had teachers I dislike but very few and far between I've been very lucky I had a boss I legitimately hate it I've had two actually

oh that's good and I'll tell you one was in radio one was in landscaping and the one in radio once reached out to me later he was awful to me

and again I'll tell the whole story when I write a book one day he was awful to me one day he reached out stay off my turf I know, right? Only one guy on this podcast can write a book.

And that's Jesse. And it's going to be called the world's tallest book. And you can only get it if you're 6'5". That is discriminatory and a brilliant marketing tactic. I'm going to pirate it. Sorry. Yes, Adam? I hated this guy.

And the reason I hated this guy was not because he was an evil person. It was because he was a deceptive person. Oh, I hate that shit. and intentionally so he went out of his way to make me 19 years old at the time new to new to work learning how to do radio he went out of his way to get me off his own staff and he went out of his way to make me look foolish in front of people not only because of because i was 19 and on the radio and he didn't think 19 year olds should be on the radio that that was a direct quote from him but also because my mom was maryland dennis well and he really got a kick

out of making Maryland's kid look bad. And, to be frank, I didn't do a whole heck of a lot. I didn't give him a whole lot of ammo. Like, I was there to, I wanted to play. Put me in, coach. Like, I was like ready and excited and like a puppy. You drove your Subaru Baja there.

Every day, every, a couple times a week up to Barry. And that guy, forever and always can go fuck himself. When I hear you say foolish, I think of sitting a guy who's playing the home opener on the first night of his new team.

You mean the Spezza stuff? I hear you're embarrassing Spezza. See, that didn't even bother me, because if you're working on the fourth line, I get it. To think about him, like, we defended it at the time, being like, okay, I understand that. The Ottawa thing, I didn't get. The Ottawa thing, too.

What was the Ottawa thing? He didn't play. He didn't play. You went back to Ottawa. I didn't even think of that. $14.99. Yeah, that's... You're making Mike Medan...

You're embarrassing him in front of his guys. And what Mark Frazier does say... 19 other guys. ...is he played head games. Right. He turned guys against guys. Right. So when your reaction to the boss you hated is that,

I think of those real concrete examples, not just guys yelling, you're a dick on Twitter. Like, those things. He tried to embarrass guys in the locker room. Yeah. Yeah. And that's not right.

That boss, by the way, reached out to me a couple years later. and said, boy, you sound great. And all I wanted to do was say, yeah, I told you. Oh, did you make a nice candle at dinner for yourself? I didn't. You ought to have. But I did thank him, which was weird, because I didn't want to be impolite. You were the bigger person.

Yeah. I should have just rubbed his face in it. No, you shouldn't have. No, you're right. You did the right thing. You're right. Thank you, Jesse. I appreciate that.

Anyway. I'm glad that you put me in my place there. Yeah, it takes a great deal for me to hate someone. That's right. And I'm very fortunate that no one has made me hate them. That's the key. Yeah, not everyone's as lucky. You know the difference between dislike and hate, taxing and hate.

Yeah. That's the key. If we're talking about guys that hate, hate, that's an issue. And if I'm hiring in this day and age, I'm not looking for a military disciplinarian because that's not how this generation responds. and you guys are always snowflake need to toughen up no what i need is results so what am i going to need who can i hire that will get me results and if this guy's going to make my team not want to play for him i'm not hiring him i don't care how many wins he's got in the past i need to know how many wins he's going to have in the future that's what's important and like and i mean

Scotty Bowman's players hated him too Iron Mike Mike Keenan Is still coaching hockey Hasn't been in North America For a very very long time He's apparently the only coach that Wayne Gretzky Ever hated

Wayne Gretzky? Oh with the Rangers? St. Louis That is very interesting And the only coach to ever win a Stanley Cup And a Gagarin Cup And the reason he has that fine distinction that literally nobody wants is because he was booted to the KHL.

Do Blues fans claim Wayne Gretzky? I still see a couple of Gretzky, like with the trumpet jerseys. Yeah. Those jerseys are so good. I love those jerseys. Do they go greatest blue of all time? It was Wayne Gretzky.

Do they claim him? I think they claim him a little. Do you? This is my arrogant stat thing that I like to throw out. In terms of adjusted goals, The Blues still hold the single greatest era-adjusted goal-scoring performance in NHL history. Brett Hall.

Brett Hall. Because he did it in the 90s. Brett Hall, I think, owns number one and two. Like, just for himself. Like, his season. Individual goals. Okay. Because he had two 85-plus goal seasons.

Flames legend. Wow. Yeah, Flames legend, Brett Hall, sixth-round pick? Just so you guys know. We'll get into this right now, but I think it's sort of wrapped up. Robert Bortuzzo has been suspended for four games Wow. Extremely light. One game worse than spitting Meanwhile Arvidsson's gonna be out for four to six weeks. How many games is that? With a lower body injury. Now it's interesting when you watch the replay when Bortuzzo does the initial

I don't think Arvidsson was injured. On which Arvidsson dove. Right. Dove into the net of course, but then Yeah, you know whenever guys want to get a call they dive face-first into the crossbar. When he crawls back Out of the net, Fortuzzo cross-checks him again, and that, I believe, is where the lower body injury came from. So, because he, like, Arvidsson sort of, like, bounced? Did he? Was his? Yeah, okay, Jesse's got it up on the screen.

Yeah, what's wrong with him? I'm trying to figure out what the injury is, which is always a dangerous game. Yeah, what a dive, face first into the crossbar, shut your face. Yeah, he, like, bounces. So I wonder if his ankle or knee What a piece of shit Yeah, that's garbage How often do you hear me say that about someone

Or I'll say they did a chicken shit thing That should be double digits Oh my god, that is a pathetic Pathetic Suspension On Robert Bertuzzo A history of being a predatory player A history of suspension

Robert Bertuzzo is so lucky His name's not Nazem Kadri right now That's a fucking disgrace. Go off, Steve Dangle. That's awful. He's a predatory... Oh, back when there was respect in the game. Fuck you!

Shut up! Shut up! Robert Bertuzzo's one of the only close to goons we have left in this league. So if someone's fighting, it's gonna be him, because he can't do much of anything else. Like, all I ever saw when I did a little bit of Twitter homework today is there would be a terrible incident like that, and then there would be a fight afterwards, followed by no more incidents like that ever.

WRONG! It happened again and there was a fight! It hasn't gone away! Fighting solved NOTHING! What's Victor Arvidsson supposed to do, get up and kick his ass? Also, what is any Predator gonna do fighting Robert Bertuzzo? If I'm the Nashville Predators, I go, no, no, no, no, no, you get him out of the box. Four games, you make Robert Bertuzzo play 45 minutes for the next month.

That friggin' guy... He has to stay on the ice. That guy, Robert Bertuzzo, plays 40, his, the sentence should be, Robert Bertuzzo plays 45 minutes a game until Santa Claus can be tected on the NORAD thing. Going around. NORADSanta.org. NORAD, NORADSanta.org. My favorite thing ever.

You know why? He sucks! And he's a goon, and he does that stuff. What Jesse's bringing up right now is an old hit. I thought this was last night, but I figured that was wrong because it's Nikolaj Gulen and they're on the Islanders. Only reason Bertuzzo's hammering down at Brock Nelson there is because he thinks he's a teammate.

Guy's a piece of shit! You know what? I gotta give him credit, though. He wasn't on for a single goal against in Game 7 against the Bruins. Oh, that's right. That's because the Blues scratched him. Well, hey, listen, great guy, only four-game suspension, thank your lucky stars. So there's a tweet by Cameron Beaumont, it's a random user, they tweeted out Bortuzzo doing the exact same thing to Brock Nelson. Multiple cross-checks directly to the spine where there's no protection, guy's a predatory

garbage player. Shame on you, NHL. Shame on you, NHL. Shame on you, Robert Bortuzzo. shame on anyone who defends this Neanderthal. That's bullshit. And now the Preds are without one of their best offensive players for the next four to six weeks? Fucking joke. Andrew Berkshire, a middling defenseman who is a repeat offender, purposely injures star player on divisional rival, and I'm getting pushback for saying it should be 20 plus games.

Hockey, man. Stupid. Listen. Listen, we'll get pushback on all kinds of stuff, and I'll listen to it. Not this. If you're defending Bortuzzo here, you're an idiot. You're wrong. You're wrong! Go hang out with all your buddies who miss the past and shit, and hang out with them. Go hang- aw man, remember when- aw yeah, I remember when- and rot. That's all you're doing. Is vaguely occupying a body. Get on board with progress. That's in any other the world. That's assault. I saw some people going, that should be assault. Now, listen, dirtbag shit happens in hockey all the time. You're not allowed to punch anyone or slash

anyone in real life either. But that four game suspension? George, that is a joke. I'm not even mad at Bortuzzo. That's a joke. I'm not mad at Bortuzzo anymore. You should be. Rob Bortuzzo is doing what they pay Rob Bortuzzo to do. Rob Bortuzzo did Rob Bortuzzo things. I'm mad at him. Let me talk. Let me talk. Sure. Rob Bortuzzo is on brand, guys.

George LaRock. George Peros. George Peros. George LaRock, I hope you're having a great day. George Peros is just doing the weak shit that he's paid to do. That's the guy you got to be upset with. I can be upset at a guy for being an asshole. Okay, fair.

Robert Bortuzzo is being an asshole in this thing, and I'm upset at him for being an asshole. and upset the NHL for not punishing the guy who's being an asshole. Let me ask you this, guys. Everybody is an idiot here. How does it help the NHL to have star players? And Victor Arvidsson is a star player in Nashville. Yep. He brings eyeballs to the screen.

He's a reason that Nashville people watch Nashville Predator games. Tell me how it... No? Sure. You guys had your thing? Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. Tell me how it benefits the NHL to have Bortuzzo in in a week and Arvidsson not in four. Here's how, Adam.

Oh, I haven't thought of it that way. What, what do you expect the NHL to be forward thinking or smart or intelligent about anything? It's a stupid league. Stupid league with stupid people in charge. But why is it so far behind? Why would people rather watch, like, college volleyball on a weekend than fucking hockey in a lot of places? Because it's a stupid league run by stupid people.

I'm sorry, would someone like to point out the lie? Anyone? Oh, here, go ahead and point out the lie in your little, oh, yeah. Remember the, you know, chilling in your bar with the felt seats that smell like four decades of farts? Jesse. Like, shut up. Shut up. Jesse, you know what I can't wait for?

What's that? I can't wait for the first tweet directed at Steve Dangle that says, well, listen, the Blues won the Cup last year, and they have a guy like Bortuzzo. Maybe the Leafs could have a lot more success against the Bruins if they employed a guy like Bortuzzo. Yeah, but it's okay. What do you think Steve will say?

And how, pray tell, do you think Steve will react? No, Steve will say, he'll quote tweet and say, you're right. And that's it You're right He's good It's uh It's so weird That like

Isn't it amazing how amazing Phone technology is these days That you can like Actually get signal in your sarcophagus To send a tweet like that How Sorry I'm very riled up I got something for you from Adam Gretz

Yes, Oilers blogger Robert Bertuzzo has developed a track record Of using his stick as a weapon Usually in response when he thinks an opponent Has taken a dive or flopped A thread And this is from just this afternoon It's probably only one or two things

The most recent one was obviously last night And then you saw the Brock Nelson one a couple years ago And he said remember that last shift in last year's playoffs When Esa Lindell flopped a couple of times It ended with a cross check to the face And he said And then there's another one Where Evgeny Malikin's upper body injury, it was listed as week-to-week,

and Bortuzzo, I believe, cross-checked him in the ribs. Yep. Oh, weird! In the one spot where there's no protection? It's what he does! You cowards at the NHL! Cowards! It's a stunning league.

It's a really stunning league. How will they fuck up the same way next week? Can't wait to watch. So let me ask you this. They're terrible. Let me play devil's advocate on this, guys. Let's see this. All right.

So forget the guys sitting on farty chairs for a second. And we're ignoring the fact that he beat the brakes off a teammate at practice also. Yep. Yep. So tell me about what do you say when the NHL says you can't have the punishment fit the injury? The injury is separate from the punishment. So what they're looking at is not the injury. They're looking at the act.

The act is two crosschecks. So if Arvidsson's not injured, are you this outraged? I mean, probably not, but he is injured because that's what he did. But the way the NHL looks at it is it's two crosschecks. But he would, well, okay, let's say he shoves someone from behind and they break their neck. Would I be as outraged if he didn't break his neck? Well, no. But because of what he did, that player broke his neck.

I can't ignore the specific thing in front of me. And for the NHL, who takes things in a case-by-case basis, I think it's cowardly for them to say that. So if they were to say... The NHL will be cowardly. 100%. So what was it? The NHL says... They're looking at it.

This is not what the NHL is saying. I'm just saying, here's what they would argue. Okay. The argument is, we're not looking at the injury. The injury does not play into the suspension until later. Because that's how they say it. They always say it's the injury later. First, it's the action.

Steve, you are arguing incorrectly, once again. Okay. I mean, you have to say... I'm not surprised. You have to say, yes, NHL. I do agree with that. you shouldn't fit the punishment to the injury because that's a slippery slope. I would say, NHL, if you have a player who is on the ice,

who is trying to intentionally hurt another player with their stick, that suspension in the books should be more than four games. Minimum. I would say I agree. Regardless of whether he was injured or not, If a guy is weaponizing his stick, that should be minimum more than four games. Or he's not suspended and is forced to play the rest of the season with a rubber chicken. That's fair, too.

Instead of a stick. Whichever one you want. Can I just read it to you? It's absurd that it's four games. It's a disgrace. Just fly out that action. A disgrace. Now, I think I'm one of these people.

I'm one of these liberal cucks. Well, Adam, who thinks? These pussy-ass Twitter bitches, which have been called before in my DMs, thank you very much. I would love— Great that you have them open. Oh, it's fun. It's so good. You know, honestly, most people are great.

I'm sure. Like 99.9% of people. I believe you. And what's interesting about this is I actually think the injury does play a part. Because you look at any other part, this is the NHL's thing, oh, well, that's later. Well, if you were to look at it in any sort of crime punishment situation, because that's what this is, are you sending a guy to jail for stabbing someone or are you sending him to jail for stabbing and the person died?

And it's a little bit of both. And again, criminal law, suspensions in the NHL, very different. But they have some similarities, do they not? One is society, one's a private company. Agree. Yeah. I think that the way this private company protects its stars is a joke. and you might say

Victor Arvidsson's not a star he sure as hell isn't in Nashville and that matters the NHL is a local market brand it's not a national

brand like the NFL or the NBA it is not an international brand because they refuse to do anything internationally that actually will

make an impact they're going to skip China they're going to skip China again because they suck but the NHL wins when it's local

the all-star game wins because it's local the outdoor games win locally do they win on TV No. Should they win on TV? Should they try to make them win on TV?

Sure, but that's a different conversation. If you are taking local stars out, then you are hurting your own revenue. And I'll throw this out there. Let's say it was some random fifth liner. It shouldn't even be on the team were it not for injuries. And they're like, whoa, how did you come up with a fifth line? Whoa. Don't even allow that.

Like some guy, congrats some guy who's never going to score a goal or whatever. It would still be, like, I would love to know the injury. What on God's green earth did Robert Bertuzzo do to that man? I think getting a stick jammed in your back is injury enough. Like, did he fracture a vertebrae? Is this something that's going to recover well or something that's going to stick with him for the rest of his life? Let me read this tweet. You can tell Nashville's not happy.

I think David Poyle had to have approved this tweet. As a result of the cross-check taken during the first period of last night's game, Preds winger Victor Arvidsson will miss four to six weeks with a lower body injury most times when you have an injury even if it's a result of a play the team will just say Victor Arvidsson will miss four to six weeks but as a result

of the cross check taken during the first period of last night's game they're not happy that is it is rare to see that put in a tweet so as a result Nashville is probably going to go after Robert Bertuzzo with who why why I think they want

the revenge and it won't be with him it'll be with goals it won't be with him oh no i don't think it'll be with goals either adam but it's okay because it's all about peacekeeping right it's all about peacekeeping so what is that's how this will be about oh you think it'll be one of the stars why not you think it'll be if you're on the preds right now every single player in that room is looking at the next game against the blues and they're going up around up up and down the roster who's got the most points Jordan Bennington all of a sudden

thinks he's a tough guy what did he do he immediately after those two cross sticks he took one shoved Victor Arvidson

who was already hurt how much does that guy weigh 165 pounds yeah he is a he is a bit of a gumby it was it was a bullshit play

for him to just like get in a love tactic and I'm not saying that should happen that's more of the same that only makes it worse

but Robert Bertuzzi It's what makes the Blues safer? Are you sure? It's what will happen. A guy like him makes the Blues safer? I disagree. You guys know who they play tomorrow night. Are you kidding?

The St. Louis Blues. Is there a back-to-back? The day in between, but yes. They play them tomorrow. I will be watching that game. I will be watching that game. And they're probably top fighters out of the lineup now. Watch St. Louis and not dress Bortuzzo?

No, he's suspended. Oh, he's suspended. Four games, yeah. Ahhhh. Well, and we know Arbiton's not playing. He's not playing another game for the rest of fucking 2019. Yeah, he won't play until January now. Man.

Good league. Good league, great league. Four games. Four games. The Oilers won again last night. Has Erika Branson recovered yet? From the spit? Fuck off.

Stupid. Oilers won again last night. Hard-fought game against Vegas. Kind of looked like the playoffs, and here's the thing. Drysaddle with 3 assists Connor McDavid with 2 goals Zach Kassian with 2 assists But I want to bring something to your attention

There's a couple things Is it the tweet that I think it is? I don't know Maybe there's a tweet that you know about that I don't Because there's no tweet on my notes When you look at the Oilers stat line Leon Drysaddle 16 goals, 31 assists, 47 points

25 games Connor McDavid 18 goals, 28 assists, 46 points 25 games He's so good Holy shit. Next guy, Zach Kassian. 25 games, 8 goals, 10 assists, 18.

Dude, that guy's on the same line! And then from there, it goes 17, 16, 16, 11, 8. It doesn't matter. But it doesn't matter. Here's the stat you need to know. Teammates with 45 points in team's first 25 games last 35 seasons. This list. Bossy Sutter

Gretzky Curry Lemieux Brown Gretzky Nichols Lemieux Yager Drysaddle McDavid That's end of the list Holy shit They're too good

That's amazing They're too good So what's funny is All the things I said in criticism About the Oilers In the preseason 100% apply Yeah

McDavid and Drysaddle are so good That it doesn't matter That's unbelievable Well, it's interesting because we criticize them for doing exactly what they're doing last season. It's just a different coach and a different system, and it's working. And they're getting better goaltending, I believe, yeah. Yeah, that too. Yeah, Koskinen's turned his career around.

But they weren't scoring like this. They were scoring a lot, but not like this. And the criticism was Todd McClellan going, well, I'm going to play McDavid and Dreisel together. And we're like, what is he doing? Is he nuts? Well, they've got to have depth. They've got to score more. McDavid can score with anyone.

And he can. He scores more with Dreisaitl. Those guys are on pace for 160 points. Both of them. Both. They figured out a cheat code where they can just be so good it doesn't matter. And whether or not you can ride that to deepen the playoffs, who knows? But they can clearly do it in the regular season.

That's enough right now. Well, here's the thing. Like, any team I think could probably, a lot of teams anyway, especially playoff teams, Could ice lines 2, 3, and 4 And their second line will be better Than the Oilers' second line And third line And fourth line

And their defense You could throw them up Against the Oilers' defense And they'll probably be better What the hell do you throw up Against McDavid, Dreisaitl, and Guy? Like Zach Kassian It's funny

I was watching There was a gif going around Of McDavid and Dreisaitl Talking to Zach Kassian And people talk about it Like it's the easiest job in the world I don't think so. Oh, I don't think so.

Any problems with that line, immediately everyone's going to point at you. Because you're a guy. Yeah. It's not an insult to Cassidy. He knows he's a guy. He knows. I would be the happiest guy in the world. Oh, my God.

A guy who is happy. A guy who is happy. A guy who's thrilled. This is a guy who Montreal gave away for free. Oh, he's going to get like a third of the points McDavid and Dryside will get. And it'll be a career high by leaps and bounds. But it cannot actually be easy to play with two players that are that god mode. Like, you've got to play your role to a T.

It'd be weird because you wouldn't know what to do. Because you're never the main guy in any situation. No. Case in point, he's got, what was it, 18 points? Well, they both have over 45. Holy shit. They're unbelievable. Like, there's no defense pair in the league, you could throw at those two. What I remember, so I went to McDavid's last game in junior, game 5 I think

it was, of the OHL final in 2015, and what the Oshawa Generals did was they triple teamed McDavid. They literally, there was a Canucks prospect, I can't even remember his name. In a hockey game. Yeah. They threw three guys at one guy. And Dylan Strom had to be hurt If he wasn't hurt No, he was hurt

He was 100% hurt If he was healthy The Otters probably walk To a win in that round But the Gens knew All they had to do Was just literally throw a line At one player

And they had a good chance of winning Also their goalie Ken Appleby Stood on his brain What Dreisaitl gives McDavid is an unbeatable combo. It's, you know, you ever play a game of president or ass, whatever you call it?

It's, they're the joker. The avalanche. Who I could potentially have the best line in hockey when they're healthy. Landeskog, Rantanen, and McKinnon. They don't. That doesn't beat two of those guys.

But the only way this works is if they're historically great. And that's what they've been doing so far. So far. It is going to be difficult to maintain. Like one of the things we were robbed of as a hockey fan, like I'm watching this with bated breath as a hockey fan because Sidney Crosby, the year he got all those horrible injuries,

he was on pace for like 145 points or something stupid. He was on pace for the best season since like Yager won MVP in the 90s or something like that. Like a Lemieux season in the 90s, yeah. It was ridiculous And then obviously he got hurt Now we have two guys The Oilers have two shots at this

Who might pick up 150 each And if one of them goes down It Kind of ruins the whole thing No one's You might throw someone else on McDavid's wing Instead of Dreisaitl and they'll do well They're not going to do 160 point pace well

No I think to talk about the fact that they might get injured you could apply that to anybody. It's like, oh, I could get hurt. Okay, well, whatever. Well, this was the whole concern with them, though. In the same way that Leafs fans had concern about Freddie playing 60 games. Yeah, yeah.

We're worried about riding McDavid and Dreisaitl too hard. Leafs are toast. Oh, they're done. They're done. Leafs are finished if Freddie gets hurt. So the one stat I wanted to bring up that nobody's really mentioned is what do we say after the first 10 games that Edmonton played. We said it wasn't really sustainable, didn't we?

We did. I can't remember. And that may or may not turn out to be true. I don't know. I can't remember. But my favorite part of that was the first game he played, James Neal single-handedly won the Milan-Lucic trade for Edmonton. Yes.

And what's been interesting is in that first 10-game stretch, I believe he had 9 or 10 goals. I think it was 8 goals the first 10 games. It was spectacular. He's got, like, two in his last 13. Oh, really? Well, he went back to where he should be. Well, he should be a 25-goal guy.

That's what he should be. Well, and that's roughly what he's on pace for. Actually, he's on pace for better. Probably. But, yeah, he's slowed down. He might be a streaky guy. I just thought that was interesting. Funny that James Neal only has 13 goals now.

He had 10 to start the season. He's still only got three fewer than Matthews. Like, that's how hot he was. Yeah. Outrageous, yeah. Only five fewer than McDavid. Oh, he was going head-to-head with Pasternak for a while there. That's what was so crazy about it.

There's another guy. Pasternak's another guy. You just go, holy moly. Having a God-mode season. Montreal blew a, does this sound familiar, 4-1 lead yesterday. 4-0. 4-0 lead, yeah. And then a 5-3 lead and lost 6-5.

Montreal. Man. Currently, just to point up on the Leafs, two games in hand. They are third in the division, which is not a bad place for Montreal to be, considering they made the playoffs last year. But Eric Engel said it's a symptomatic thing that's lost them more games than they've won through 2020. They had Carey Price in that, too.

They have defensive flaws. And you wonder with Montreal, can they outscore their defensive flaws? We wondered that in Toronto. Man, they're an exciting team. I love watching the Habs. And they sure are excited to be there, too. They seem like they love it.

Yes. Yes. They don't have a problem playing for Julianne, I don't think. Max Domi was also on a nine-game goalless drought until last night. He was? Yeah. That surprised me. And then he got two, or at least two.

The league is in a really interesting place right now. We're talking about players on 160-point paces. Pasternak, I want to say, is on pace for 70-plus goals or something like that. And that is at least the fourth time this season that a 4-0 lead has evaporated. At least the fourth. The Devils gave up a 4-0 lead to the Jets, and I want to say their first game of the season. The Rangers overcame one against Montreal. And Florida erased two in four days or something like that.

They did it against Boston in Boston, and I can't remember who the second one was against. it's a the league is in an interesting spot the Leafs were up 4-1 in the Avs and I was like no they couldn't

be in a worse spot boys keep it at 2-1 this is dangerous Kapanen doesn't get that breakaway goal it's a tie game it's wild about a week ago

the Leafs I compared the Leafs to the Flames and I figured that they were basically direct that was last episode was that last episode

okay so last episode four years ago who fucking knows man we entered some weird time vortex for sure right now they have 26 points in 25 games the flames right now and they won last night have 25 points in 26 games um almost identical the flames did you see the brad trilliving thing no so he comes out and the flames are not doing well they're three six and one in their last 10 games it's a team that was a top of the west last year nothing's changed except they

They have Milan Lucic instead of James Neal, and James Neal was a non-factor for them last year. He comes out and says, this team, the responsibility of this team is with the manager. Me. Not the coach, not the players. It falls to me first. I would agree with him. And I have been horseshit. So he used the Jim Noline.

Oh, well, this is what he said. Is that something called himself horseshit? Yes. And I have to tell you... Is that a Western Conference thing? I don't know. Okay, go ahead. At least in Calgary and Dallas, it makes sense.

A lot of horses. Fair. A lot of horse shit. Very ranch. Both very ranch country. Hats? Yeah, hats too. Dressing?

And dressing. Sure, why not? Ranch dressing. Brad Treliving came out and said Brad Treliving was horse shit. And that explains why the Flames aren't good. I'm sorry. But that was the most feeble attempt to be a Kyle Dubas and take, like, Kyle Dubas takes a lot of shit and takes responsibility for a lot of shit that's not his fault. Like, I respect that he's doing it, but at the same time, I'm like, don't, don't, like, it almost like, it almost feels like you're talking down to me here.

It's a little annoying, right? Yeah. Dubas would never come out and say that the Leafs aren't a good team. Like, the guys he assembled aren't good enough. Well, he said that he's been, his performance has been horseshit. Brad Treliving's performance as a general manager happens in the summer it happens at the trade deadline

and it happens when he hires a head coach beyond that a general manager's performance really is in the in-between spots the players and the coach are the people responsible truly after that

so for Brad Treliving to say for the first 20 games that Brad Treliving has been horseshit and then say I'm not firing the coach, and I'm not trading our star players. Okay, so you rate yourself as horseshit, and you're not willing to do anything about it? Right. Like, did you mismanage the hot dog prices? Yeah.

So this is what I don't understand. And he's come out and said, we are not changing the coach, because they said they've changed the coach a lot lately. They had Hartley and Sutter before that, and they just hired Peters. Peters didn't take over Hartley, though. I forget who the hell the coach was before that. Oh, my God. Galutzin? Yes.

There you go. Glenn Galutzin, the world's happiest head coach. Galutzin. Remember he threw his stick into the freaking board? Yeah. He threw it into the... And then I memed it into Batista's bat flip. Yes, yes!

They are not changing the coach because Bill Peters was just hired in 2018. But I gotta ask you a question. When you make a mistake, don't you want to make a mistake quickly and move on? I love that line from you. Yes. I think that Brad Treliving's performance will be horseshit if he doesn't do anything. And I'm not saying he's got to trade Johnny Goudreau. That's stupid.

Why would you trade your best time? But will he really enter more points per game? The Lucic trade, you look at that and you could be like, oh, that's horseshit. But that was this summer. Yeah, but that's when he did his performance, like you said. That was stupid. Yeah, and now he's seeing the results of it. He's like, oh, I guess that was horseshit.

And how are you supposed to feel if you're Tobias Reeder, or Milan Lucic, or Cam Talbot, or, wait, those guys were all Oilers last year. Anyway, how are you supposed to feel if you're any of the Flames acquisitions from this summer, hearing him say that? And you can't have it both ways. You can't say those acquisitions were horseshit, plus I'm not going to do anything about them. But he also said, also it's not of the players, but I've done a bad job. No, your job is the players. And he said his performance through the start of the season has been horseshit. He hasn't done anything. If he said his performance this summer was horseshit, I could be like, yeah, I think it was. You took the cast-offs, three of them, from one of the worst teams historically ever.

And they're just down the highway. Yes! You knew they were bad. You played them six times. You knew. And you knew those guys specifically weren't good. Reeder was washed. Talbot, for whatever reason, didn't have it.

And Ruchich is done. Says here he's got one point in 17 games, but it's a goal, damn it. I'm just saying, guys, Brad Treliving, and not enough is made of this, just goofballed all over his own face, just fell all over himself. Phrasing? Okay, yep. And then comes out and goes, well, you know, it's on me. Every player that you brought in, not just this year, every player that you brought in, you could call to account.

The coach, you could call and got it. You could call everybody out. You're the one blaming yourself. At a certain point, they have to take responsibility for it. You can't say something like that. And I know the players have. But you can't. Don't talk down to people.

Flames fans aren't stupid. No. They know. You can't say something like that and then not do anything. Yes. So the Flames need to do something within the next, I would say, week or two. And they're going to trade Mangia Pani or something like that. Like, are you serious?

Mega Payne. Like, that's what they're talking about. They'll go, well, the Leafs and Flames could do a deal. Man, Japanian. Why? Why? Dude, didn't I call this, though? Didn't I call it?

Who makes worse moves than a good team that had a disappointing playoff? Tampa Bay, I won't really throw into that category. Toronto was okay the last couple years. Yeah. They've had disappointing playoffs. They haven't, like, done anything stupid. No, not too stupid. like Kadri was reacting

to the playoffs I think but that's actually you know what I forgot to bring that up let's get back to that that's a monster of its own yeah I want to talk about him

now or in a minute in a minute okay Tampa didn't do too much stupid they gave away JT Miller to the Canucks they got pretty decent return for him

Calgary what the fuck are you doing seriously what are you doing that's the point what are you going to do and I I don't know call me crazy

You're crazy. I'm crazy. Anytime you have a super talented team that's underperforming and has a coach with a history of super talented teams, Carolina, that underperformed until he left, gee, I wonder. I'm sure Bill Peters is a great guy. I'm sure he's a great hockey mind. Babcock disciple.

Guys, it's obvious. You could make a mistake, make it quickly, move on. or move on commit commit well they are committing let's say it is the coach then or sorry

let's say you want to keep the coach well then it's the players change up the players you said you've been doing a horseshit job right but they're not doing anything they're just kind of

trying to see it through so Berkey Ryan Burke had a thing last week when he was talking about Dubas and Shani and they said listen

he said I liked this about Burke he's like I love the fact that they went outside the traditional coaching pool I love the fact that they're bold enough to pick a guy

that's never coached NHL game. I love the fact that they're putting their careers on the line for this. Because they are. Dubas straight up said it. I'm putting my career on the line. You get to the NHL, put it all on the line. If you fail, you fail. At least you put it on the line. If you don't put it on the line, you're definitely

going to fail. Brad Trilliving, this is the issue. Burke said, but now Dubas and Shani have used their bullet. Their bullet was this coach. They've used their bullet. Usually you get to pick one coach. You don't normally get to pick the second one. And I wonder if that's what's happened in Calgary. Trilliving

picked the wrong guy, but he can't be the one to pick the next guy because his ass is on the line too. Well, if you're going to make a GM change, now's the time. I think you blow both of them out if you're going to do that, but I don't think to be honest with you, I don't

think Tree Living deserves it. I think he's done a great job. I think the only thing he hasn't done is get a like Big Save Dave was great last night, but let's be honest. He hasn't gotten the goaltending thing sorted out. That's the only thing he hasn't done. Otherwise, that team has been pretty damn good.

And they've done some pretty damn smart thing. The Lucic trade was just, I don't understand. Old school bullshit hockey move. That would be enough to me. Didn't that get Peter Chiarelli fired? But that's a great example of, dude, make

this player I got you work. I think Bill Peters is trying. I don't think No, I'm talking about Neal The problem was not getting him right In the first place Yeah, you're right

You get him right Who knows? Maybe you beat the Avs And then what? Right? That's a good point You figure out the James Neal situation You get him to score more than seven goals

Which, it's James Neal How hard is it? It's like how we were looking at Barry He doesn't have one goal How hard is it to get Tyson Barry one goal? No assists in his last 10 or whatever? If it's Martin Marincin, okay, that's a challenge. Right, but it's James Neal.

That's a good point. That's a really good point. Yeah, so to me, the mistakes, they're old. Yeah, they've already piled up. They're still paying for it. It sounds like they've run out of time. So this, you know, I don't think he deserves it. Maybe he does.

If you're not willing to fire this coach, he deserves to pay for it with his job. But maybe he can't because they're saying, no, you hired him, you want him. Well, then it's on people above Treliving to shit or get off the pot and figure out what they're doing. Well, I'm sure Treliving probably doesn't want to go to them and say we need to make a coaching change because they'll say, why should we trust you to make another one? You already did this. You just hired this guy. Well, if you have to ask Brad that question, then he's not your GM, is he?

No, he's not. That's what I'm saying. That's what I think is going to happen. These guys don't turn it around. Forget Bill Peters. It's Treliving that's gone. If Jim Shurleving was sitting there on Dragon's Den and he saw the Calgary Flames as a business,

he would not buy into it. I know. He would. Exactly. Actually, I think he would invest, but then he'd have to make some wholesale moves. Because remember, they sometimes come in and they're like, now I am the captain now.

Kevin O'Leary is like, I want to hear more. What's this about Milan Lucic? Kevin O'Leary, if he said what he really thought, I think he'd probably just be like, no, no, no. but they have to continue to make a half an hour show. Right. You've got to fill 22 minutes of television. I'm going to hear more of this terrible pitch that you put in front of me.

Oh, so you're going to take toenails and turn them into houses for the homeless. And you value your company at $10 million? That's always my favorite. Where did you come up with that number? And they're like, well, we think that's the number. Oh, so you have nothing to back this up. So many, there are so many people, and I learned this, there were a couple of courses I took in school.

People, it's, ideas are almost easier to come up with. It's justifying them financially. That's a difficult one. So many people, oh, I got this wicked product. What do you value yourself at? And it's like, what? Sorry, what was the question? $200,000, 5%.

$200,000? And what is that based on? Nothing. I want that. So you've invested your entire life savings into this. This is literally what you're doing for a living. This is how you're going to feed your family. And you've put no thought into any of the financials.

That's correct, yes. But they're really sturdy houses. They're only made of the finest toenails. Are you in or are you out? What's it going to be? Mark Cuban. What's it going to be? Hey.

Come on, you have the money, Mark. We don't talk about Shark Tank, those Steelers. We talk about Dragon's Den. What came first? Dragon's Den. It's so much older. Yeah, that's where the idea is. But Kevin O'Leary was smart enough.

It's a Canadian idea? Yes. CBC. I'm so proud. And then so Kevin O'Leary was like, ah, interesting. How about if I change the name and bring it to the States? Right. And put myself on both.

And now I'm on NBC. And he owns it. Yeah. He owns the American version. Also, Family Feud. Family feud Coming to Canada Yeah with Jerry D

That'd be cool I like Jerry D The commercial that ran During Hockey Night Was very funny Yeah It was good Now

Anyway The Flames are very Very interesting If they turn it around None of this matters None of what we talked About matters But if they cannot

Turn it around I hate to say it Because I think it would Be a loss to the Flames And if it were me I'd say to my GM You know what Fine you made a mistake

Get it right this time You'd give him another shot I would give Tree Living another shot. I would also never have allowed him to do the Luchich trade. I guess maybe as an owner, you're not supposed to get involved. But if it was me... That must have been signed off, though. It had to have been because it's an expensive deal.

Tree Living is a guy that I think is a benefit to any team he's a part of. But I also think he needs to be surrounded by people that can stop him from his worst old school hockey vices, such as trading for a Malayan Luchich contract. Man, like I'm looking at the Flames and like RFAs and UFAs, like, well, UFAs, you deal UFAs at the trade deadline. Man, they got Travis Hamanek and Michael Froelich. Everybody signed long-term though. Yeah, man, like. But this is the thing, that's a talented team.

What you maybe do, I think, more realistically, again, because I learned from you guys talking about how upper management works. You gas the coach immediately You give him a shot With one interim coach Yep You have until the end of the season to impress us And if you don't, gone You're gassed

Because it's not like they're fitting to have A really big deadline Here's the problem with that Now you're 25 games in Who's out there? At least the Leafs had Keefe Who they'd waited to develop for four years And Babs isn't an interim coach

They had a plan. Who does Calgary have? I bet. Who's open? I bet they've called Babs. Like, I think he's probably, I think he could be lured by a Calgary. Oh, 100%. I'm just asking if, first off, if Babs wants to do that, that's great.

I mean, I actually think that they'd turn around under him. I honestly do. I think he's effective right away. Maybe. But, like, he's not interim. No, he's got to be the head coach. I'm talking about, you know who I'm talking about. I'm talking about like a Peter Horacek.

Oh, you can't commit to that. No, no, no. Not literally him. I'm talking about he was Randy Carlisle's assistant. I know, but you can't bring in a guy like that. You have to bring in a new head coach. This is a team that's supposed to win. They need a guy who's going to stick around.

They can't have an interim tag on a team that just won the Western Conference. This is never a good sign when we're grasping at straws here. That's the thing. That's the other problem they're probably facing is who do we bring in? Mike Keenan? Mark Crawford? Trying to think of who else. Like, everyone was hoping so bad that Minnesota would be worse than they are

so that they could fire Bruce Boudreaux. Who are the Chicago's affiliate team? Rockford? No, sorry. No, I've got it wrong. Vegas' affiliate team. Oh, Chicago Wolves. By the way, why do the Blackhawks not have the Wolves as their affiliate?

I don't know. It would be a lot easier. Anyway, who's coaching the Wolves? I'd be calling that guy. I have no idea. They're pretty good, aren't they? Why have the Chicago—oh, just because they're a good team? Aren't they one of the best?

I don't know. Well, isn't Garrett Sparks, like, backstopping them too? Oh, well. I mean, yeah, any team looks good when you have a 9.50 safe percentage or whatever he's got. Rocky Thompson. Rocky Thompson? That guy used to be coach of the... That's the most hockey fucking name I've ever heard in my life.

Rocky Thompson, I think he used to... Good for Rocky Thompson. I want to say play for the Toronto Roadrunners. Yes. Did he? Yep. I remember Rocky Thompson. He played 10 games with the Panthers, and, yeah, I remember him, too.

Adam, the Chicago Wolves are currently second last in their division. Okay, that's wrong. Who the fuck? What? Isn't there a team? I thought Garrett Sparks was, like, killing it for them. He was. They sit 26th in the league out of 31 teams.

They have 17 points. Who's number one, other than the Marlies? The first team in the AHL is the Milwaukee Admirals. They're 14-3. Who's their coach? They've won 10 games in a row. Good for the Milwaukee. Who's head coach of the Stockton Heat?

I don't think this is a good exercise. No, it's not. Again, we're grasping at straws, right? So I'm not aware of their system, right? Like I am with the Leafs. Yeah, of course. There might be a guy. So, yeah, there might be a guy.

But if that's not the guy, I'm at a bit of a loss. Other than just steady on the rudder and keep going, I suppose. I feel like they've made their mistakes. They've made their mistakes. Dougie Hamilton's having a good old time. I don't know. You can't put this on Elias Lindholm either. They're not looking good.

The Nazem Qadri stuff yesterday was interesting. Because he did the sit-down with, was it Dave and Amber? Yes. And they talked about the trade. And Qadri said, well, you know, I know these trades happen quickly. But I didn't even get a face-to-face with Dubas. and then Dubas when asked about it by Ron McLean's like well these things

happen quickly and you know I absolutely should sat down with him but it was kind of like the trade was made and I had to call him and say the trade was made well because you have minutes yeah because you're sending it to the head office and he also had a no trade thing yes and but also you don't want him to

find out from someone else he reads it on Twitter from Chris Johnson or something like that right I found it quite interesting that Nazem Khadri thought that he deserved a sit-down from an NHL general manager. This is a guy who's been in the league how long?

Knows that that's not how it works. And after two straight suspensions at the worst possible time of the year, you think, and I love Kadri. So let me be that. This is the caveat. I love the way he plays. I love his attitude.

I love how much he loved this city. And this city loved him too. There were a lot of people that hated on Nazem Kadri the way they're hating on William Nylander now. But there was a lot of us. He was a bona fide star in the city of Toronto. Yes. He couldn't walk down the street.

Yes. However, and I'd say this to my good friend. Sorry, you think after what you pulled. And forget the suspensions. You think that you're going to get a sit down from an NHL general manager ever if you're not the captain? Sorry. if you're Matt Sundin and you've played here 12 years and then they're about to

trade you, I'd probably go to your house and sit down and say, Matt, listen, we gotta rebuild. Do you mind going to Philly? Which is almost what happened. But not quite. But not quite. Or you know, if you know, if it's Sidney Crosby and the Penguins

need to rebuild and Crosby wants to have one more kick up the can. Ray Bork. When Ray Bork was traded from Boston to Colorado, I'm sure Was it Harry Sinden who was the general manager? I'm sure it was whoever the GM of Boston was at the time sat down with him and said, Listen, Ray, we're going to trade you. We're going to rebuild.

You've been amazing here. Thank you. Nas, are you out of your mind? You do not get, after what you pulled, and sorry, level of player, you don't get a sit-down. And he's sick. And you move on. He's sick, but he's not like super-duper. He also said, I know it's a business, but he also, no, you can tell he's upset about it.

Like, hey, I'm a little, like, I didn't understand. What don't you understand? Did you think that you were going to stick around here after two straight suspensions? Yeah, like. Come on. It broke my heart. It did. And honestly, if he doesn't get suspended in that Boston series, I think he's.

Leafs win. Well, forget they win. He's still a Leaf. Right. Yeah. Okay, you've got to trade a forward in order to get some better help on D. Cabin and Janssen They would have gladly traded either of those guys

I think for the value Kadri Oh well you still this three center thing Dude put him on the wing then Look what the Oilers do with Dreisaitl And look what the Avs have done with Kadri They lost guys And threw him on the wing For fun, funsies

Kadri's a great player He's so good, he doesn't get suspended easily And it wasn't just the playoff suspensions man This guy, there were all kinds of If we're going to talk about Babcock, Brad Crum There were all kinds of pain in the ass Breadcrumbs with Nazem Kadri And that was part of

What I've said on the show multiple times Dating back to last season It was a miracle Nazem Kadri was still a Leaf Yeah Friedman brought up his parents being called On the broadcast I didn't know that was public In the headlines he brought up his parents

Being called in to talk to him About the first time he was almost traded He said it? He said it on national television. We've known about that for years. We weren't allowed to talk about it because of how we heard it. I wonder if it's still in the headlines clip. I'll bring it up. I would love to see it. I've known about that for years.

It wasn't just him button heads with Eakins and Ron Wilson not liking him very much. And I don't know, Randy Carlisle sort of found a role for him. And I don't think... Him and Lupo were pretty dynamite together for a while. Absolutely. As like this weird third slash first line. and then liking loophole's thing when loophole

is like I'm ready to play like just and then getting suspended by the Leafs for like

showing up hungover and how many times do you go Nas yeah so that's another one where you go Nas

come on man we love you but it's like your friend who's really talented really smart

but also occasionally does bonehead stuff and you're like man that was boneheaded come on man no but if you

just get to know him he's actually and he probably is it no but like with you with your friend all right um it was you couldn't possibly come back with head into this season much less the playoffs with a player who's gotten suspended in the first in the same game in the first round of back-to-back playoffs can't build a team on that and i love him and i think if he keeps himself out of suspension territory, him and the Avs will go to the Stanley Cup Final. I believe that in my heart of hearts,

but it's up to him. I would also love to see him back in a Leafs jersey later in his career. Oh my God. That'd be awesome. Nothing would make me happier. I want to see him back in a Leafs jersey tomorrow.

But, it is what it is, man. It is what it is. So I just found that a bit like, come on, Avs. Really? Come on. You were not going to get a sit-down.

Stop, and stop. Do we take a pot shot to Kyle Dubas for? It also happened on July 1st, you know, when all the moving parts happened. You think Dubas is going to take some time to go sit down with Kadri? Yeah. I'm sorry. Kyle Dubas doesn't have time for you.

No. He was also, he nixed a trade to Calgary. Yep. Before that. So he knew this was coming. So, like, on top of all those pain in the ass things, you shot down a trade. Like, come on, man. Hours before.

Work with us here, man. And the city, man, when he comes back to Toronto, the city's going to explode. Oh, yeah. It's going to be what the Avalanche fans gave Barry and more. I think that Nylander will follow a similar track to Kadri in the sense that I was talking to my brother-in-law's father-in-law last night. And the one guy that he picks out, this is a guy who's an older man. The one guy he picks out that he doesn't like is Nylander. he said that contract stuff what's he what's he think he is i'm like so the martyr stuff didn't

bug you oh that bugged me but you know and and i said you know that willie didn't do anything he just was willie and wouldn't sign for what the leafs were offering him but martyrs people leak shit into the public and that was okay yeah and i think what'll happen is is neil hander when he comes up big and i'm serious about this i meant what i said last episode and you were absolutely right. Willie, I've defended you for years.

Can you pay me back? And not pay me back in zone entries. Pay me back in spectacular fucking goal at a time when it's needed. Thank you very much.

It's not on William Nylander to be the... You're paying John Tavares, Morgan Rielly, Mitch Marner, Austin Matthews. Nylander can score

a big goal once in a while too, man. No, but he's like fifth on the rung of guys you expect to score a big goal. Morgan Rielly makes less. No, but this is not

about the money. It's his role on the team it's a little bit about the money it's a lot for everybody else it is about the money

and I would love for Willie I would love for Willie to come up with a big play he doesn't have to even score come up with something like listen I love this guy

I defend this guy I don't know where you're going with this because he's the same as Nas in the sense that people didn't like him didn't want to like him didn't want to like him

okay begrudgingly I like him okay I fucking love this guy and Willie's gonna be that guy but when it's gonna happen like it did with Nas when he start

when there's a big play that people can wrap their heads around I'm sorry to everybody that loves advanced stats, but the average fan doesn't give a shit about zone entries. William Nylander isn't going to get suspended in back-to-back playoffs. It's fine. That's true.

You never know. He just snaps. I don't even know what snapping would be for him. Do you know his Stanley Cup interview, when the Leafs win it in June, is just going to be him going, Woo! So, Willie, you scored the game winner between your legs on a breakaway, shorthanded, and triple overtime.

Lacrosse style. Lacrosse style. With a clown who broke onto the ice riding on your back. What do you got to say about that? Woo! I think that's the only word he knows. Uh-huh. And maybe his name.

And how can you hate that? Give me Willie's big moment and let it happen this year. What about the five guys before him that should have a big moment? They have had big moments. Matthews in his first game. What have they? They haven't won anything. No way.

They haven't had a big moment to win. Guys, they've had big moments. They haven't. Willie, set up. Name one thing they've won to have a big moment. It's not about. It's about a big moment in the season. I'll name them.

Okay. I'll name some. Okay, well, okay. Smaller moment. Willie set up Barry's first power play goal as a lead. That's not. That was the biggest moment. That's Barry's moment.

Stanley Cup winning power play goal by Barry's. That's Barry's moment. Leafs are down 3-1 to the Washington Capitals on home ice in game three. And who scores the game-tying goal to make it 3-3? William Nylander. He goes up to the grandstand. No one cares. That's in the tie.

So you're backing my point about these moments don't matter because they haven't won anything. Well, that's not necessarily what I'm saying. How did we get here? You can't ride both sides, Adam. No, I'm not. Oh, since the contract. Since the contract. Well, last season, you're changing the goalposts.

Guys, that's when people started hating him. You got a breakaway goal in game one. Guys, people started hating him. Breakaway goal in game one. Well, that's not a big fucking moment. Oh, it's such a big fucking moment. They're not big moments. No.

Then they haven't. I'm talking spectacularly. Nobody has. Guys, know what I'm saying. Nobody has had a big moment yet. They haven't done anything spectacular. Is there anything this Leafs team has done that you would tell your kids and be like, I was there for that.

What's the bar? Maybe drafting Matthews, yeah. No, no, no. What's the bar for big moment here? The team has had big moments. The team has had big moments in, listen, not in the playoffs, granted. Granted. Matthews scores four goals in his first game.

That's something you tell your kids about, right? If you're there. Fair enough. Oh, awesome. Mitch Marner has done some shit that has obviously endeared him to Toronto fans. He's had some big moments. Bobby Hastings gave him a stick that time. That was a big moment!

John Tavares Our bar for big moments Is low you guys Right It's fucking low It's a little bad Imagine being a Patriots fan Here's what I need

Here's what I need from Willie This is all I want This is what I want Just do something spectacular That's undeniable One time Are you asking that of Morgan Riley That singes in people

Morgan Riley had a 70 point year last year Morgan Riley's had his moments That's not a moment That's not a moment That's a fucking season That's bigger than a moment How many rounds of the playoffs Did that win

None. Exactly. None. And that's true. But I think what I'm looking for from Willie is less the sublime, give me something spectacular sometime, Willie. I love you. I defend you.

Please give me something to defend. So I can go, hey, guy who doesn't know a goddamn thing about zone entries, what about this one play? It just sounds like you're picking on the fifth guy down the run. Seventh. Oh. That's what Berkey said. Yeah.

Berkey said he's the seventh best player. How did he say it? He said, you're playing the seventh best player on your team. Well, I don't do ties. Like, come on, Bert. He's not the seventh best player on your team. Get out of here. So what you're saying is Kadri shouldn't have got suspended.

No, I think Kadri and Nylander have a lot in common in the sense that Kadri was the guy that Leaf fans hated. The local kid that they hated. Nylander is the Calgarian that Leaf fans hate. No, I'm kidding. But I do think that popularity-wise, Leaf fans will eventually, the mainstream ones that are older, will come around to Nylander. But it's going to take some, like, you know when people turn the corner on Kadri? That one stupid game in October against Connor McDavid when McDavid had, like, an assist. Like, whoa!

Kadri, shut him down! Babcock's greatest success. That happened on a... But that's when it turned around for Kadri. It was a Saturday night, too, right? No, I think it was like a Wednesday. It wasn't a Saturday. Was it?

I want to say it was Wednesday Night Hockey Still a national game Yes But you see what I'm saying That's what intangible weird shit That people grab onto I'm saying those guys don't matter And we shouldn't worry about pleasing them

I will say And another thing with Nas He was vulnerable with the fan base And a really good quote Willie has no choice but to get in Everyone's good books on the ice Because this guy doesn't say anything Does not say words

Naz was also great in the community Like one of the best guys on the team For being out at Sick Kids every time And Willie might be too He just doesn't say stuff And he probably likes it that way Probably I wouldn't blame him

Let's do the press conference We are running out of resources So we will skip a press conference We are 2 hours and 15 minutes in Holy shit we are So let's get out of here Bye Bye.

Bye. Bye. The Steve Dangle Podcast. Follow the guys on Twitter at Steve underscore Dangle, at Adam W-Y-L-D-E, and at Jesse Blake. Brought to you by Panago Pizza. Order at Panago.com and stuff your face with deliciousness.

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