The Steve Dangle Podcast - CJ's Preseason Party | September 26, 2017

Episode Date: September 26, 2017

On this episode, Chris Johnston is in studio! And Adam paid WAY TOO MUCH for pre-season tickets (0:00), Auston's Matt-Trick (5:00), Leaf line combos (17:00), Marleau (27:00), who's starting on D? (32:00), Babcock said Anderson is "in shape" (50:00), Back to the D core (52:00), what did you think of the Canadiens last night? (56:00), who's looking great in the East? (1:03:00), who's looking great in the West? (1:09:00), Luuuupuuuul (1:15:00), AND politics, visiting the White House, Crosby, & protesting (1:22:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Panago Pizza presents SCP, the Steve Dangle Podcast, with your hosts, Steve Dangle and Adam Wilde. We've been waiting for this moment, I think, all summer. I have. I personally have been waiting for this all summer. A man who definitely took care of us during the Stanley Cup Finals last year in Nashville. Oh my god. A man who... No!

Has definitely mentored us. All the way through Our favorite favorite guest of all time Mr. Chris Johnson Who's on his phone Because important things are happening No I'm on my phone because I'm trying to figure out when Steve Booked me for this

I'm really good at doing this week You know in terms of planning This goes way back Like I had to put this in my calendar Yeah at least August It was when we had our big like Summits Or podcast summits

Yes. In my backyard. I made them slum it in Oshawa. You and I have been texting a lot. Anyway, it's somewhere before August 23rd, so this has been in the calendar for a while. Well, see, we wanted to make sure we could book you before the season actually started and you're all over the place and basically MIA until we see you pop up on Sportsnet and on every radio show that Rodgers has.

So we wanted to make sure we got you before that. But one thing I think... I'm waiting for him to call up and be like, are you going to renew your cable? I have got some great deals new packages can we interest you in the hockey package

this year Steve you get meat get a lot of meat let me tell you a little bit about Game Plus young man but there was there's an incident

that I think we need to address before we even get started with this there's a lot of tension in the air a lot of tension in the air and it's

you know it's something that I think you know both Canada and the United States felt the aftershocks of and that is me big-timing Chris at the Leafs game on Friday night.

You big-timed reporter Chris? Apparently so. So here's how I found out. Well, okay, I saw you, and then what did I do? The lovely Mr. and Mrs. Dangle, we had a nice chat. I said hello. And you're like, oh, there's Adam over there, down at the front behind all this velvet rope and all this stuff, front row.

I spent too much money on those tickets for preseason. Oh, you actually bought them? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I know. I was one of the... Just say the number. Say the number. It was $100 a ticket.

You're an idiot. Did you really? Yeah, I did. You know, I'll tell you... You didn't just wait a month. I just rented my condo out and I was like, I'm going to celebrate because now I can... Because I did it because it's rented. But why did you celebrate with tickets to a real game?

Well, I mean... Oh, hang on. Hang on, Jesse. Well, the reason... Sorry, say that again. Why didn't you... Oh, no. I'll just leave him on.

I asked you, why didn't you buy tickets to a real game? Why didn't I buy tickets to a real game? It was a really good question, and I have no answer. I have no answer. I just did it. Now I feel bad. I was excited. No, no.

I thought you called in some favor with some entertainment thing. Oh, you think we get favors? Oh, no, Chris. No, we get nothing. Listen, Adam chirped me for my $60 James Reimer figure, and let me tell you something. I still have it. I have the memories, okay?

That's true. I have the memories. You could have had better memories. Probably could have, yes. You could have regular season memories. You're right. Yeah, but Jesse, then he would have had to sit all the way up with pond scum. Yeah, we could have bought the $60 tickets, which would have been smarter, but I was like, no, $100.

Thank you very much. At Rico Coliseum. You bum. Do you know what he got for his price? He couldn't hear us. We're just yelling, Adam! Adam! And he wouldn't even turn around.

He's like, no, I'm in the front row. A solid quarter of Rico Coliseum was looking at me because I was screaming my lungs out. Really? Yeah. Wow. We were like, who is that maniac? Okay, so yesterday, I want to rewind a little bit here. I'm like, hey, Chris, so excited to have you on the show, whatever.

And he's like, yeah, well, you big-timed me at Rico. I was like, what? So you had a conversation with Steve, and I was like 10 feet away, and then what happened? Was that it? You wouldn't look over. And again, I thought it's because you were just down in the fancy section eating your sushi. They do not deliver sushi to that section. I was a little disappointed.

Yeah. Well, it's okay, though. You got to see Morgan Rielly's end. Oh no you were buying food I was buying food for that It would have been nice if you got to see that up close With your expensive ticket but you didn't I even bought arena food

That was a pricey night And it's funny because I don't think Rico was ready For 9,000 people They ran out of pizza We had to call Pizza Pizza for more pizza There's just that many people there right It's not something that's usual And also that's garbage

What? Pizza Pizza That's terrible. Oh, they had to call an unnamed pizza company for more pizza. Trash. We should bleep that out. Yeah, we should. Like it's a swear word.

But yeah, so I- They had to call Panago Pizza. Sorry, Chris. I don't know why I didn't assume that you were there, because of course you would have been there, but I didn't see you, and I apologize. And there's no real tension. There's no real tension, no. This is actually worth it, because I found out you paid that much for that ticket.

I know. Listen, I don't feel bad about it. I was excited. You were reveling in your misery. You know, that Austin Matthews... Do you know what would have been exciting if you paid $100 for last night's game? That would have been worth it. Austin Matthews hat trick?

Yeah. And he scored two of those goals right at your end. Actually, all three. Oh, great. Right at the end where you were sitting. That's cool. No, that's cool. There was a similar shot that went wide.

There's a similar shot that went wide against Linus Allmark, but he was not the statue of Al Montoya that showed up in net last night. What? Yeah. What was that? So was that first shot, was that one of those ones that just fools you and you get handcuffed, or was Al Montoya? Well, he wasn't supposed to play the game.

Oh. So the goalie, Charles Lindgren, was supposed to play and somehow injured himself warming up. Oh. So I don't know, maybe Al, maybe he had a few the night before. I don't know. Maybe he wasn't at his best. He wasn't expecting to play.

We're going to title this podcast, Chris Johnson thinks Al Montoya was drinking before the game. I met the day before, not right now. And then I find out the guy backing up, who wasn't even sitting near the bench, is actually with the Marlies on a tryout contract. So Montoya just had to sit there the whole game. Yeah. Well, he was an emergency goalie, that guy.

Yeah. Because they only brought two goalies, and one of them got injured warming up. That's crazy. So one of the, I think the Marlies had like four goalies. So we lent Montreal a goalie. Yeah, basically. Hey, he got a jersey out of it. That's pretty cool.

We were actually debating if Montoya went down. This is before they announced the emergency goalie. The Leafs just send over, like, Kaskasuo. Why not? I have no idea. Why not? It's a preseason. Who cares?

Yeah. He'd probably be happy for the ice time. They might not have wanted to give him a sunburn, though, with the way Matthews and them were going last night. So, they, like, I don't want to, obviously, I don't want to dwell too much on the fact that, you know, that it was a 5-0 win against Montreal, which we always love, but it was preseason. 5-1, sorry.

But it seemed like that line was really going. It seemed like they have been going since game one because those are the first two guys to score were Matthews and Nylander. And they've been a major factor in pretty much every game that they aren't breaking up the Hyman-Matthews-Nylander thing. What have you seen? Man, this could be a special year. I mean, it's hard not to get a little bit ahead of yourself, especially with regards to those two guys and the fact that they're now looking at a full season likely playing together, which they didn't have last year, and they are pretty filthy.

I mean, two guys that can shoot the way they shoot and pass the way they pass, I'm not sure that there's much another team can really do. And, you know, last year Austin scored 32 goals at even strength. So it's only eight power play. He's at the NHL, right? Yeah. Wow. And you have to believe he was second in the NHL in even strength shots.

So basically, he was already owning the league at even strength last year. I would expect he'll be better this year just by being another year older and experienced, having Nylander all season long. No offense to Connor Brown, who spent some time there, but I think Nylander's pretty special on his own. And then he's going to be on the top power play this year, whereas last year sometimes that was not really their top unit. They were using the Bozak JVR guys, and they were having a lot of success,

at least for second in the league in power play. So I could just see a huge jump for him with power play points and him and Nylander together. Like, that could be the best line in the league. It's not, to me, it's like not out of the realm of possibility whatsoever. I mean, they are, like, see the goal Nylander scored? There are not many guys who shoot the puck like that. No.

Like, anywhere. I mean, even Phil Kessel, I don't think. I mean, Phil shot hard and it was different the way he did it, but, like, that was, it's crazy how hard Nylander shoots the puck. Well, and Phil's often, like, off the rush. Like, Nylander's just standing still sniper. Have you ever seen him panic with the puck? Like, ever?

That whole, like, it's funny. The best players on the team are so, like, what makes Matthews lose his mind? What makes him, like, yell and scream and go crazy? Not a whole lot. Like, he looked bored last night. Nylander's always bored, basically. They're pretty stoic, both of them. Have you ever been in a scrum with Nylander that was over 90 seconds?

I think he got to about two minutes last night Whoa Wow By his own modest standards He was verbose last night But he's actually not so bad one-on-one, Nylander You just have to come armed with questions Because I find if you sort of let him know

That you're not leaving He'll eventually just be like, alright I'll actually talk to you But anyway It's only preseason Sure, of course it is All this stuff can go wrong there could be injuries and things that we can't really predict at this moment but

man if those two play a full season together it's gonna be something i think i think really that like 90 points for both of them for me is not out of the question wow you can stop talking about the marlo thing it's not gonna happen it's not gonna be matthews and marlo no i don't think so again yeah absent absent injuries i think that that i mean because this is the counter argument to Zach Hyman. I mean, Matthews led the league at 5-on-5 second and shots, first and goals with him on his line last year.

So, I mean, it's not like Zach's dragging him down. I think people just looked at the 29 assists and said maybe he should have had more, you know, if he had more finishes on his line. Well, now he does in Nylander. Right. I mean, last night him and Nylander just going back and forth and Nylander just scores from the top of the circle.

And Zach Hyman had a fight? He did. It was such a preseason fight, though, between two surefire NHL players. Like, they were both like, alright, we're mad! And then the second they both had their gloves off, they're like, this is dumb. Let's not break a hand here. Let's not lose money. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Well, and Brendan Gallagher's broken his hand a couple times. Exactly. So I'm pretty sure he's just, like, he's willing to engage, but only so much. You know, with the way the team you kind of knew going into the season what spots were available,

right and and even even so i you know i i would never have called going into the season that that fourth seed spot the fourth center would be up for grabs i never would have thought because you just assume that well they signed an nhl player a guy with a great face-off record a guy who's played here before a guy that's played over 800 games but it seems like and we'll talk about the you know the defense stuff in a minute it seems like that spot is truly up for grabs and if last night was any indication which it seems like it was because babcock and julian both wanted to start their NHL lineups, Altonen is the guy right now. And is that, from what you've seen, is that what you deduce?

There's nothing else to conclude. I mean, the one thing, watching, this is the third training camp with Mike Babcock, this reminds me so much of Brooks-like last year. I mean, because Brooks was kind of presumed to be on the team, but every day I'm going to practice and I'm writing down the lines and I'm like, he's on a line that isn't going to be on the team. He's on a line that isn't going to be on, like, he was with players throughout camp and never using the rule that suggested

that he was going to make the team. That's where Dominic Moore is. Like, literally, he's never been on a line where I'm like, that is going to make the team. Like, he's played with Josh Levo. I mean, the thing is he might make the team. It just doesn't suggest to me he's going to start in the healthy 12 to start the year.

I mean, he might be the extra forward or the 14th forward. But it's a surprise. I mean, I'm with you guys. I didn't expect at all that this would be a conversation. And now you're getting down to it. I'd be stunned if he is a fourth-line center on opening night. Again, absent an injury in one of the remaining games. But it looks like he's gone.

First of all, this raises two questions to me. First is, Altonen is not your typical fourth-line center under Mike Babcock. He doesn't win face-offs. He's like 43% in the KHL. He's little, man. He looks light on his skates. I know Steve's been pushing the weights around a lot, but I feel like if Dangle went up to him on the ice and just leaned into him,

he might fall over. If Daniel went up to him on dry lands, maybe, on skates, I think he'd still... I mean, he'd have to skate into Steve to hit him, for Steve to hit him. It's centrifugal force, though. That's true. That one game at Ricoh, someone was coming up along the boards, I don't remember who it was, and Alton just flies into him, and he doesn't have to completely nail him. It's just one stick touches the puck, the other is on the player, the player no longer has the puck.

But when I think Mike Babcock, fourth line center, I'm thinking Luke Glendening, Byron Fraze, Ben Smith. I mean, guys who are underwhelming in most areas, not at the NHL level, but they can win face-offs. They can kill a penalty for you if you need. And Alton Inn, he doesn't fit that mold. And Dominic Moore certainly does. So I wonder what it says about why Mike might be changing what he's doing. And that can spin off in one conversation. And then I also wonder, maybe Mike didn't really want to sign Dominic Moore.

Because let's remember, the management signs the players and the coaches play the players. And it might just suggest that he didn't really like the signing, he hasn't seen much. He does not give a damn, eh? About what management does. But that was the problem here for so many years, is that they played the guys that shouldn't have been playing. Way back, I mean way back. We're talking, you know, there were guys that were never given a shot. Don't go too far back, my memory's limited.

Yeah, like, this is, man, I think of, like, remember when Dave Nonas was Leafs GM? Like, that is a distant, far-off fairytale land that, well, maybe not fairytale, but, like, I barely remember it. I barely remember it. It seems like a traumatic thing that I've completely blocked out. Remember when Michael Grabner scored his first goal from his butt on the Leafs? Remember when Michael Grabner was a Leaf? He tweeted about it. He was a good-natured guy, actually.

Yeah, Bernie's great. I was, like, two when that happened. But even, like, Horacek feels like forever ago. Who? Like, he goes to the league. Who? I don't know who you're talking about. I remember they used to have, like, this camouflage hoodie for player of the game,

and they gave it to Horacek after he won his first game, and he came and did his interview and, like, took a camouflage hoodie. He was a good dude, but there was not a lot of success in that period. No, there was not. Is he anywhere in the league right now? I think he's a scout somewhere. I think he is. What?

Poor guy. I mean, that's the good thing about hockey. Usually people look after their friends, and people have sort of gray area jobs where they're getting paid and traveling around watching hockey stills. And that was not his fault. Let's be honest. Oh, no. He was like a total fall guy.

Yeah. Yeah. It was like he couldn't have done anything about that garbage end of the season. That was just the way it was. It was like handing the Brooklyn Brawler the heavyweight title and being like, all right, buddy, you're headlining WrestleMania. Do you know what he did, though? It was the best.

He just chose to be the good teacher. So they played, I believe, one game here after he got hired. It was just after the calendar turned in January. And then it was straight to the California road trip, which is always a weird – I've done a few of them with the Leafs. It's always a weird trip because you're far and it's just – I don't know. Usually they go there to lose 10-0 every game. It's always at a very strange point in the season too.

This year it's early. But anyway, that year, the first practice is in L.A. at like 3 p.m. So that is the ultimate go night, obviously, the night before for the players. And then afterwards, they bring in all these in-and-out burgers. So, like, literally just a pile of in-and-out burgers right after the players got off the ice. They're playing that night? No, the next day. Oh, the next day.

But still, he comes in, gives them a favorable practice time. Remember, the team is in crisis. They've just fired their coach midseason while in a playoff spot. Like, the end is nigh. And Peter Horacek's like, screw it. Late practice, in-and-out burgers, let's get these guys playing. and they got smoked all three games on that trip. Buried that in my memory.

And now Mike Babcock is coach. Yeah, so just keeping with the forwards, you said, Chris, that this might signal a change in what Mike Babcock wants to do. What do you mean by that? Well, we already saw late last season and then in preseason, he started having Nylander take the right-side face-offs and Matthews take the left-side face-offs. So I almost wonder, and it's really hard to put this to him,

like I will ask him this at some point, but this is the kind of question when there's still roster decisions, if you ask, he's going to bite your head off because he doesn't really want to give away too much of what he's thinking. His last scrum was very ornery. Yeah, I took a couple of those, like belt-type fastballs right back at my head. Yeah, he wasn't having it. That's okay. It's all part of it.

No harm, no foul. But I wonder if he's got more confidence in the team's face-off ability in general because he's found a way where on each line he's got more of an advantage by having a righty and a lefty take a strong side face-off. And so maybe that's why he doesn't feel that he needs a fourth-line center that can win you that draw because he's got more confidence in these guys. I'm just trying to think. I mean, it's a clear change in tactics.

Like literally in March he started doing that with every face-off, right and left side, and right through the playoffs, and they're doing it again. And now all of a sudden he doesn't just have a pure face-off guy as fourth line center. I mean, the fascinating part about Mike Babcock, and sadly he only shares just the littlest bit, is that he wants to be an innovator. And he's not a guy in any way that just does it this way because it worked last year. And I would just love to know what's going on either in his head or behind the scenes

because this just doesn't seem like a decision. I mean, granted, they probably didn't have a choice to have a skill guy as a fourth center in the past since he's been in Toronto, but this doesn't feel like something that would normally happen. And then I wonder what it says about Matt Martin, who is going to be on the team to start the year. But, you know, we know the clock

could potentially be ticking there. Do you think so? Well, I mean, I think that's the biggest question with Leaf fans is with all this depth, how do you, it's not, like last year, it was one thing the analytics community has their opinions about Matt Martin. They're well publicized, we know.

But this year, he's legitimately taking the spot of somebody who is not just a little better, but probably far better. Far more skilled, for sure. More skilled, sorry, yes. And could bring more offensively to the table with what Matt brings, which is a very calming influence in the dressing room, puts players in their happy place, and that can't be underestimated. Is that role long for this team? We played 82 games last year, and Babs did say the other day, he's on the team, Marty's on the team. So it's clear that he's going to start the year, I think,

still playing every game. But I just wonder over time, he's got three years left on his deal. So, yeah, so Kasperi Kapan, he's going to the AHL. Yep. Probably the same for Soshnikov. Eric Faire probably is waived and down to the Marlies. At some point, maybe Jeremy Bracco tears it up in the Marlies, and you have Kapan in there.

And they're going to have to try to create a space. I mean, another way to do that is to trade another forward. But at some point, I could see him being knocked from the lineup. It's just we're not there yet. Okay. But I don't know. If he plays all four years here and is a regular player the whole time, I will be surprised.

And gets a ring. Well, he might get one of those just hanging out. Singularly? Oh, sorry, a couple rings. Multiple rings, many rings. Multiple rings. They're going to have to sort out the D, though, still. Well, I wanted to get to that, too.

Let's not go give them the cup just yet. I want to do forwards and then D, yeah. I thought Matt Martins looked very good, actually. I don't disagree. I don't disagree at all. And listen, I hated asking that question because I hate to be one of those guys who comes across as I don't like him because I think he actually does play a valuable role. And I know what it's like to be 19.

And I have no idea what it's like to be 19 with that much pressure. Not only are you playing in the NHL, you're playing for the Leafs. It's a different ballgame. And to have a guy in there who's unaffected by that, who can pull you through that, even if you are more skilled than he is, you know, like a Mitch Marner might be or an Austin Matthews would be, and they're more skilled than most guys in the league. I feel like having a guy who can just go, it's going to be cool. Everything at 19 or 20 feels like it's up or it's really down.

And I know that from all the relationships I was in at that point. And I just, I'm glad that they do have guys like that in there because they do need them. and if he takes that role and runs with it, fine. Well, him, Boyle, and Kapanen at the end of the year last year were pretty good. They were. So I'm sure seeing that, maybe they're thinking, hey, if we put a little bit more skill on that line with him, that it works better.

And so maybe that's part of what goes into Alton as well because Alton and Brown and Martin, there's some actual guys who can score on that line too. And there was a definite problem at 4C last year. I mean, like, Ben Smith just was not cutting it, and I don't think they expected to do as well, but they couldn't rely on that line until Brian Boyle got to town. It was crazy. Like, it was a carousel.

I think Holland played eight games, probably six were at center. Byron Fraze got a couple in there. Gauthier played about 25. Smith was about 30, and I think Boyle was another 25, plus the playoffs. Like, it was never consistent. And even Boyle, by the way, who was supposed to be, like, the savior of that fourth line, he had three assists. Like, that's all he had in that stretch.

He didn't score a single goal as a Leaf, although he set one up in the playoffs. That was pretty good. Sort of important, that one. Yeah, and Matt Martin was a key part of that play. So, I don't know. I don't know. Just a thought.

Anyway, I don't want to come across as a Matt Martin hater because I most definitely am not. If you're Kasperi Kaepernick right now, though, and you're looking at the right side of this team, I mean, you're wondering where your chance is. You have to be. Marner, Nylander, Brown. I mean, I guess the fourth spot, if right now Komarov has been shifted

to the right wing on that line with Marleau and Kadri, and he's a free agent this year, so if he doesn't come back, maybe. JVR, do you flip to the left? Maybe he can play to the left. I mean, it's got to be discouraging. I actually feel a little bit for the guy because most NHL teams, he's got a spot right now, and I don't see, put it this way, Yesterday, Mike Babcock said he had a meeting with everyone on the bubble,

and I went in the room and asked Kasperi if he had a meeting, and he said he didn't have one. So I don't even think he's legit on the bubble right now, just because of the waiver situation. It's not because they're disappointed with him, but I just think they can't justify losing someone on waivers when they can just send him down for a little while. And I think, when does his contract end?

At the end of this year? And he's an RFA, or is it at the end of two years? Because for a team that's going to have a tight cap situation for the foreseeable future, I'm not so bummed about him playing in the AHL. You are heartless. Yeah, really, man. Hey, they're deep. You know that he—

The Leafs have literally never been this deep. Do you not care about this man's livelihood? Of course I do. He makes $70,000 when he's in the AHL, and he is making $925,000 when he's in the NHL. His dad's Sammy Kaepernick. Literally, the difference of his checks is like he could pay off your mortgage if he— It is. One check.

One freaking check. Yeah, that always blew my mind. And I didn't say that with tongue-in-cheek, but it's crazy the difference. Oh, yeah. Like, I remember, like, Ben Scrivens, for example, being with the Leafs. He was making 60 Gs. Gets called up, he's making 600. So for as long as he was with the Leafs, even just practicing,

I think it was like two weeks, three weeks or something, he's making 10 times what he was making in the American League, plus he's playing in the NHL. Do you know what's a fun game? So NHL players get paid based on the length of the season. I actually don't know the exact number this year of days because it varies a little bit year to year, but it's somewhere around $185,000-ish.

So if you just want to plug in a $5 million player and you divide it by $185,000, he's making $27,000 pre-taxes a day. Or, why wasn't I athletically gifted, damn it? Or like young Mr. McDavid, and this doesn't kick in until next year, but he'll be making like $68,000 a day. Remember when Alex Rodriguez signed that first huge contract

for 10 years with the Texas Rangers? I think they calculated that every... He was still playing shortstop at that point. Every at-bat was $60,000 or something like that. It was like an annual salary. Every caught ball was $30,000. That's the one that stood out to me. Every time he caught a ground ball, $30,000.

Like, that's just crazy. He's really good at catching ground balls. Yeah, it's nuts. Anyway, I feel like I'm not bringing any structure. I'm just like introducing all these random elements Welcome to podcasting Have you not listened to the show? I'm listening, you must be new here

Yeah, and I'm the one who's like You know, bringing up random You know, you were talking about something that was a really good point And I was just bursting inside going The Leafs shutdown line has actually three centers Did you know that? Because Kadri and Marleau Can play and Komarov can play

And it's a useless point and I just wanted to make it And I saved it for this moment For no good reason It's not that useless, though. It kind of links in with what we were talking about, how having different guys take different face-offs. I thought so. On topic.

Steve Dangle on topic. Quickly, how do you think Patrick Marleau has looked? Pretty good. Pretty good. He's skating well. And do you know what's hilarious? He is notoriously a slow starter. And let's not put too much stock in the preseason again,

but he scored two goals. And I think that will do a lot for just his mind. I mean, he's a veteran, but let's face it. If he didn't score for 10 or 12 games, The questions come. Yeah, of course. Carson all over again. Remember when Matthews didn't score for 10 games and people were like, has he hit a wall?

Is that it? He had two major droughts last year, and he scored 40. One of them was 13 games. Yeah. The second one was a little less than that. Yeah, the second one was basically right after Ottawa, right? Right, but then he had four on opening night. So if you average it, it's pretty good.

Four goals in your first 10 is pretty good. The goal he scored in the St. Pat's jersey, I think he had a seven-game pointless streak. Wow. And I only remember that because I saw the highlight recently. Well, clearly a bust. Oh, obviously. Like, cut him. Does Marleau play out his entire contract with the Leafs?

Probably not. No. I mean, it's just hard not to look at the way it's structured and have some doubt about that because, you know, I think this year and next year are fair. That's prior to Matthews and Marner's extensions kicking in. And then the next year, on July 1st, he gets paid $3 million signing bonus,

and he's only owed $1.25 million the rest of the deal. so to me that screams he gets paid that by the Leafs and then the Leafs probably trade him somewhere or maybe retires or I'm not sure I don't know what mechanism they'll find at this point they'll cross that bridge when they get there though

but it's certainly structured in a way that they can probably get out of the third year if they have to and he still gets most of his money I mean he got a 7 million dollar signing bonus talk about a payday the day he signed that thing and even when you've made the money he's made in his career like 7 million right out of the gate

And I heard he bought a pretty nice pad here in Toronto. I hope so. But think about that. Again, even if you have money, even those guys don't have huge money laying around necessarily. It might be tied up in investments, all this other stuff. He got $7 million, like, boop, boop, in the bank account. $7 million?

I don't know how the taxes work exactly, but anyway. Yeah, you could get, like... He'd get a condo for that. Yeah, he might be able to get a one-bedroom condo. My house is Curtis. I'm telling you, North Curtis. Okay, so, yeah. Anyway, that's a big payday at his age, though.

I think it'll be interesting with him this year. I mean, you've got 30-goal scorer Nazem Khadra. You've got, the year before, almost 20-goal scorer Leo Komarov. 19 goals, all-star team. And, yeah, 19 goals, an all-star team. Crazy. You have a guy who can finish. You have a guy who's responsible.

You have a guy who's been there. But what I like about this position for him is that he doesn't have to be the guy anymore. Right? Not finish. No, the... Like, he's not, he doesn't have to be, he's, you know, second or third line. Whatever, however you, you know, you judge those lines, he's not the guy that they're relying on to score points every night

like he was his entire career in San Jose. No. I mean, really, you just have him, I mean, I doubt he'll kill penalties for the least, but he's done that. He's going to be on the power play. You just, he's just another great piece. Yeah, I mean, look, I think that they would like to have got Joe Thornton, too. Like, in a perfect world, they wanted both of them.

But they felt like they had this window to spend a little bit more, maybe, than market value to Adam. And as long as he's healthy, I mean, he can definitely skate. Like, the Leafs, again, will be one of the fastest, if not the fastest teams in the league. I mean, especially if Callie Rosen makes a team on the defense, which it looks like he will. Like, that guy skates like the wind, too.

So then you're going to have Gardner, Riley, and Rosen on three different pairings, all guys that skate well. Carrick's pretty mobile. and you have four lines with some speed, especially if captain never gets up there and plays in the fourth line. I mean, anyway, there's a lot to, this team could be,

it could be Harlem Globetrotter depending on the circumstances. But like, honestly, they could be winning games 7-5 and stuff. I'm sure Babcock doesn't want that, but it's kind of how they're built. Why couldn't they get Joe? Joe loves San Jose.

Okay, fair enough. I mean, he did $8 million. Joe loves $8 million. $8 million wasn't bad. I think he loves San Jose, though, too. Like, the lifestyle and everything. I mean, it's a big... Big change.

It's a big change. I mean, he's got kids. I mean, Patrick Marleau to uproot four kids, all born in the U.S. His wife, who I believe is American. I'm not saying it's bad, but at his age, he didn't have to do that. Right. Like, he could have got a decent contract in San Jose, gone out as a lifelong shark. He's played 1,493 regular season games as a shark.

Wow. Like, it's hard at that point to move. I mean, it's a little bit like his... Oh, my God. Since getting traded by Boston? Sorry. No, I mean Marlo. Oh, oh, oh.

Sorry. I was doing so well. I screwed up so early on the last show, and I was... Go ahead. It's all right. But still, most guys, and granted, we talked about the payday. He wasn't going to get paid what he'd get paid, but he probably doesn't need money either. So I'm just saying...

$7 million. That would be enough for me. I'd be like, okay, see you, San Jose. Great times. Right, but he's made, what, 80? Yeah, of course. I actually don't know how much he's made, but he's made a lot. Yeah, yeah. I know. It makes sense.

It's just not everybody's down with that in their life situation at that age. So it would have been interesting. I mean, Tyler Bozak would really be on the clock if they had a guy like Joe Thornton. Probably would have traded him. I would think. Like, couldn't afford him. Well, even if you could, you don't really want him as your fourth line center. I mean, at some point, it's diminishing returns.

Right. That's a very expensive fourth line center. So moving on to defense, do you think Callie Rosen's a Maple Leaf at the start of the season? I do, but I saw that the pairings did change today. What were they today? Marincin Carrick, I saw. The return of Martin Marincin. Oh, man, everybody's excited about that.

Man, I just watched back the first game of last season, and I blocked out of my mind that he started with Riley last year. Morgan Riley's had a lot of NHL defense partners, given how little time, relatively, he's been in the league. But I do think that Rosen has a good shot at it. I mean, he's played four years in Sweden. And he skates well, does it right every day. He's a good man.

A good player as well as a good man. Do you see then – Sorry, I'm not making fun of the Babs. It's just like you actually start to – He's a caricature, yeah. If you spend as much time around him as I do, you hear it in your mind, like his descriptions of him. But, yeah, you know, I think he's on the team.

Connor Carrick? Yes. Okay. I'd be stunned. Yeah, he's great. Look it, Wright D is still a problem. Ron Hainsey, left shot on the right side. I'm not sure that this is going to work.

You can't say it's not. But, I mean, I know they made it work in Pittsburgh when LeTang was out. And that's some of the logic, you know, I'm sure, what the Leafs saw there in signing him. But he's not young. I don't know. I got some concerns because if that goes awry, you know, Zaitsev Gardner was pretty good last year down the stretch.

This team needs right shot Ds. And so I just don't see them risking losing Carrick on waivers or something like that. I still think there's a lot there. He's a young, still pretty young player. He had a monster AHL playoffs a couple years ago. I still like him. I know it was a tough end of the year for him,

but I just don't think they're ready to pass on him just yet. In terms of the American League, the right-handed options are pretty limited too. I think they got Justin Hall and the new guy, Laverde? I thought you meant Lil' Grin. Oh! Yeah, he's a guy. When he's ready

That could be a while though Let's maybe move on to him Is he going to be a Marley? He's going to be a Marley I phoned his GM in the Swedish league Like two weeks ago And I didn't know anything about the guy I just found out he was a GM and contacted him

And then I call him and I'm like What do you think the Leafs are going to do? Is he going to stay? And he's like, I've known Lou for 30 years He was my GM in New Jersey in the 80s And this guy, Anders Karlsson was his name He's played like 100 games with the Devils even before my memory, so like a long time ago,

and he's known Lou for 30 years. He's like, yeah, Lou called me. He said, yeah, we're probably going to keep him. So I think, I mean, that doesn't mean it's done. If they think he's not going to benefit from it now that the Leafs have seen him in some games against NHL players, it could have changed, but I suspect they'll opt to keep him down the street where they can really monitor his development,

monitor what he eats, how he trains, just his ice time, his usage, all that stuff. I mean, it's tough for a team to give that up. Because you have to remember, the Swedish league, they have promotion and demotion, like they do in English soccer, say. And so, like, if you get on a team that isn't doing that great, you know, he might not play. And the Leafs would have no say in that. I mean, that team's maybe fighting for a playoff spot or to stay in the top league.

Or, you know, there's all kinds of circumstances, and he's still a young player over there. So I think that there's a lot of benefit. You can only keep your first-round picks from Sweden. So Carl Grunstrom, for example, can't play for the Marlies because he was a second-round draft pick. What a silly rule. Well, it's to keep the stars in Sweden, right? They're protecting – because it's funny.

I also talked to the GM of his team, of Grunstrom's team, Ferlanda, and he's like, we think we can win a championship, especially with Carl. Like, they are counting on Grunstrom. Especially with Carl. But he's only 19 years old. You know, he was drafted in 2016, but he's an impact player for them. So they're counting on him coming back. And the rules say before age 21, unless you're in the NHL

or you're a first-round pick, you can't play in the NHL. But that seems, just based on what you said, that seems like a situation where he'll play a big role rather than get buried. A big role on a good team, too. There you go. Man, and he looks like, to me, a guy who's going to be in the NHL sooner than later, to be honest, Grundstrom. He's like the new Komarov.

He doesn't find a hit he's not going to finish. And he's just kind of a bulldog. You know, he's certainly not spectacularly gifted. I don't think he'll be competing for one of the scoring spots. But to me, he's another player to keep an eye on for next season and beyond. Do you think that with Leo's contract coming up, they're looking at him going, well, there's an easier, cheaper replacement that's younger? Probably.

And with no disrespect to Leo Comrock. No, I think everybody loves Leo. I mean, he's probably the most popular guy in the dressing room. just straight goofy and speaks every language that anyone else could speak in there. He's an awesome guy, and he's been here through the tough years, and I know he's done a really good job, even with Nylander and Kapanen when they first came over,

would come and hang out at his house a lot. Soshnikov stayed with him when he first came over from Russia, and he speaks Russian. I mean, there's a lot of value. He's like the United Nations of the Leafs. But I'm not saying for sure he's done beyond this season. and maybe he'll come back on a cheap deal that they like as well. But there are replacements coming.

I mean, I think that's the reality. Even if you're James Van Riemsdyk, who's coming off his best season offensively, and even though he might have another great season, they might want to move on just because you can't keep all the oil under the ground. I mean, it's, like, bubbling up at this point. Well, and I wonder that with Bozak as well. Like, is, you know, let's say Freddie Gauthier steps in or Adam Brooks steps in. They don't have as much at center, though.

They don't. They don't. And if Bozak does come back on a deal that's similar to the one that he has, is that that bad? Probably not. But I don't know if they'll do that. Okay. But that one, I— Or do they slot Nylander in at center

and split up the Matthews-Nylander thing next year? Maybe not. I mean— Like, why would you do that, right? Right. They have options. But you kind of have to decide who you want Marner to play with then because we're talking about potentially his two line mates not being here

because they're both free agents. and the team's going to look pretty different. I would suggest to you when we do this podcast a year from now and we're talking about the lines, it's going to be quite different, I would think. Just because there has to be change there. It's going to be force change.

I don't think they're going to just sign everybody. They're pretty important UFAs. Yeah, absolutely. We're talking, these guys with Kessel were a line, right? They were the top line for years. They've been around in sports terms forever.

I mean, Bozak's the longest-served guy on the team. When he leaves, I was just thinking it will complete a generation of Leafs as me as a journalist because I remember the day they introduced him. They had a press conference because they signed him as a college free agent in March, and he was there, and I remember that day, and I'm like, oh, my God, he's now the oldest guy on the team or longest tenured, rather. And then when he's gone, I will have covered every Leaf from him. It's like hundreds of Leafs.

So present. Wow, and, yeah, there have been. There have been a ton. What was it? A couple years ago, it was 70 players they used or something like that? It was crazy. 50-something. 50?

Like, Zaliyev played 10 games with the Leafs. Wow. Like, who even remembers that? And how far down the depth chart is he? With regards to, because, you know, Rosen, obviously, back to the defense, has been great, but so has Bortman, it seems, anyway. And Dermott. And Dermott.

And I'm surprised they nearly killed Kapanen in practice yesterday. Oh, really? He's a heavy hitter. He didn't mean to. Like, it was, sorry, it just happened. But he's a big man. Like, he looks like a fighter or something. Like, he's jacked.

He's, the hit that he threw on Friday night was audible around the whole arena. And I forget who it was against. Evan Rodriguez. Yeah, and he went right off the ice. Right? He was gone. Gone from the game, at least for a little bit. And then he threw a big hit on Mike Blunden in the first game and had to fight.

First fight of his whole career. He said, because in Sweden, if you throw your gloves down, and you're automatically suspended three games. So it, like, never happens. I mean, something really bad has to happen where someone's willing to do that. So he's never actually fought. But, again, judging by him, I'm not concerned about him

in the martial, the dark arts or whatever, of hockey. I think he can handle himself if it comes to that. Now, do you think, what do you think of his skill set? What do you think he brings? I haven't seen enough yet. I mean, he's a rookie of the year last year in the Swedish Hockey League. I mean, and he played for the championship team, HV71. So this is a good signing.

I mean, the more I've thought about this, I think this is going to be the avenue the Leafs go. And you sort of hinted at this earlier, Steve, but when you sign these guys that are 21, 22, 23 from Europe, they get signed to entry-level contracts. So you haven't had to worry about developing them because they've already been playing pro, so it's different than getting a draft pick.

but they're on entry-level deals for up until age 25, so up to two or three years, depending on their age when they sign it. So that gives you two or three years, first of all, where you hope they're developed, but you can send them back and forth to the Marlies without losing them as assets. I mean, and plus, the Leafs just have the money to do this and the resources to go scout like crazy and to woo these guys.

And I think it's a little bit of a market inefficiency. I haven't looked around. I'm burning a story idea for down the road by talking about it here. I hope none of my competitors listen to the Steve Dangle podcast. But, I mean, I just think the Leafs have found something here. Even by signing Soshnikov, which happened before Lamorello was around, Altonen, Borgman, Callie Rosen, it makes a lot of sense because now you have guys you can move up and down that are a little bit older

and a little bit further along than your prospects. And all those guys, well, not all of them, but Rosen, Borgman, and Altonen for sure. if they hit all their performance bonuses, 1.775. That's it. That's it. And if they hit all their bonuses, great. Great. Well, most guys in that situation don't get bonuses.

So that's the other beauty because it's really only your Austin Matthews. I mean, you get picked first overall. Like, Dermott doesn't have any bonuses, right? None. Pretty sure. Signing, I think that's it. Okay. Yeah, but signing is only, I mean, it's nice for him

because it means he literally gets 92,500 the day he signs. But it doesn't add on. It just takes away from that $9.25. Right. Oh. Oh, okay. So most guys get a signing bonus because it's a nice gesture to a young guy who hasn't made money. Right.

Because the Canadian Hockey League doesn't pay players. Here's some money to get you started, yeah. So unless you've got a side deal or you're getting something greasy, a lot of these guys, their parents have paid a ton of money for them, and they haven't made any money yet. Oh. But then if you score 40 goals as a rookie, you promptly make $2.5 million in bonuses. So, I mean, it can come quickly if you're good.

I remember it would have been summer 2009. I got to talk to Jesse Blacker and Nazem Kadri. Blacker used to be a second-round pick of the Leafs. And, you know, in between takes or whatever, while the camera was off, Blacker just kind of goes to Kadri and goes, signing bonus? And Kadri's just like, he was happy. Ninth overall pick or whatever he was. Probably get a signing bonus.

Yeah, he was happy. So how do you think Lilligren's looked? uh up and down up and down like an 18 year old he looks like he looks like an 18 year old but i almost think it's irrelevant in a sense because i didn't believe for a second he had a chance to make the team and we should have talked to you months ago i was hoping you would but yeah here we go it's but i think the leafs didn't expect that he okay here's some perspective i've been covering the NHL draft for 10 or 12 years or whatever it is literally every first overall pick tonight they're drafted or sorry first round pick you know because there's usually one per team

so like like the Flames all the Calgary media is there right doesn't matter if it's the 18th pick or the second and you know do you think you're ready for the NHL and like every kid I've ever heard for 10 years yeah I'm I'm going there to make it this year I think I can do it Timothy Lilligren said I think I need another year in Sweden and obviously that was before the plan was Hatch where he's probably going to stay in North America but I've never heard a first round pick say that i mean i think a lot of them probably know it in the back of their minds but they feel like they can't be that honest or whatever i think he he's been realistic i mean that it was no small thing the the mono you know he missed two months where he didn't skate let alone didn't get like

stronger or whatever like he he was not skating in his draft year and he's still only 18 so let's remember if he's only been skating since he was 13 he's missed like if you start doing the math he's missed like a significant portion of development time for how young a man he is so maybe not even a man yet so it's going to take a little time but if he's ready by next year we're not you know

it might be three years though like who knows and so be it once upon a time earlier in the year he was supposed to be like a top five pick and like he was I didn't really see this on the broadcast but every couple years there's a player that the camera always

focuses on after every single pick and so he hasn't picked yet once upon a time it was Alexey Cheropanov and then it was Cam Fowler was a really bad one because he was supposed to go like third and it's like Angelo Esposito back in the day. Oh, he fell to like 20th, something like that.

He played on like four world junior teams or something. Yeah, it was nuts and played well too. Was there any sense that maybe that affected Lilligren a bit, falling all the way to 17? I have a sense of that. You know, he He says that as soon as it all happened, mentally, he was just like, screw this.

I'm not going to worry about the draft. I mean, I can't control this. But realistically, I was 18 once. Obviously, I wasn't an elite athlete like he is. What? No. No. Sadly.

Played some badminton in high school. A little bit of hockey. That was about it. More than me, man. But, you know, let's face it. You would worry. I mean, think about it. If something that's affecting, like, such a major thing,

it'd be like if something went wrong and you really wanted to get into a certain university and something was impacting, one of your grades was slipping or something, you'd be anxious about whether that's going to happen. So I don't see how it couldn't have affected him. And to me, it's great that he can be here and be with the team and be like a Marley and be around. And who knows? Like, if three injuries happen, maybe he gets to play a game or two.

Like, I just think it's not a bad thing for him to get used to living in Toronto. He's had an interesting story. You know, he was raised essentially without his dad. And his mom had to do a lot for him, as you would imagine, as a single parent. And had to move to a different city when he was younger. I mean, he's had an interesting sort of path to this. And, you know, I think the Leafs are really going to look after him. And that there's a lot of benefit to giving him this year and not putting pressure on him.

Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, he hasn't looked great is the easy answer to say. I don't think he's been horrible. He's bad in the one rookie game. There's a rookie game I went to against Montreal, and he just looked lost. He hasn't been that bad when he played the one exhibition game, but I think everyone's realistic about his development curve,

and he needs some time. Dermott? He's knocking. He's knocking. He's knocking. I think the perfect thing to do is to play Dermott on the left with Lilligran and the Marlies and see if they can maybe get something going there

because down the road maybe there's a fit. And, you know, Travis wouldn't want to hear that. Travis wants to play. He wants to make it, of course. Well, and look, I know the Marlies guys, like the guys around that team, think he can play in the NHL like now. And I don't dispute that he can,

but Rosen's a little bit older. And here's the other thing. Like, we're all going to go nuts with what the lineup is next Wednesday in Winnipeg. Like five games into the season last year, Milam Mahalik got sent down. Yeah. And I could see that happening again.

It's kind of cool. You know, Babcock said essentially you get the first 20 games to tinker. So even based on what the lineup is out of camp, we're not going to know until mid-November, late November probably, what this team looks like. So even if Travis starts with the Marlies, which he can without waivers again, you know, maybe he gets a few games there and then comes up later in October. Yeah, and maybe he has some fun with Lilligren too.

And, you know, those two can tear it up together, right? It's kind of like Nylander and Matthews now, honestly. Like this year, I hope those guys are keeping a diary. And I know no one's keeping a diary anymore. But this is like no matter what happens next in their lives and they both look like they're going to have wildly successful careers, like these couple years, last season and this season to come, are going to be like the best years of their life.

I mean, I hate to say that. I don't mean that they can't have happiness in the future. But it's more that this is so unique when you find yourself in this environment with other young people that are also just amazing. You're going through it together. They're having fun. They like each other. They're buying crazy clothes.

They're making lots of money. They're becoming stars. Like, it must be. Purple suits. Yeah, they're amazing. Honestly. And look, they've worked really hard to get there. And I just think it's such a cool thing that they get to do it together.

Because I think there's a lot less pressure, in a sense, than maybe we think because it's really shared by a couple guys on that team. I mean, look, Austin is the main cog. but he's got a lot of people sharing in the weight. Even guys like Morgan Rielly who aren't that old, but I notice he's wearing an A now, it looks like, permanently. And it's getting spread around pretty well. Even Freddie Anderson, who's a little older yet still,

but I don't think he's not like one savior. It's not like getting Nathan McKinnon in the draft, and I guess the Atlantis Cog and Duchesne, but it's not just getting one guy and going, he has to change everything. I mean, this is all happening together, and that's what makes what the Leafs have, like the potential of it, so great.

I could ask you about the Leafs all day. I guess we can talk about other stuff. We've got to keep talking. So I'm going to. Yeah, keep going. What's going to be the next thing we've got to talk about? But we have to talk about this stuff. Yeah, there was some confusing.

Babcock said something about Anderson that confused me a little bit. Ooh. And basically it was. A little mystery? Well, he came to camp. What was it? Prepared or healthy or something this year. But he wasn't referring to the injury at all.

It didn't seem that he suffered last year. Oh, you mean that he like. Oh, he's in shape this year. He's in shape. There you go. Thank you. Sorry. I forgot the actual words.

Yeah, he's in shape this year. What does he mean? Well, he's skinnier, man. Yeah? Because I saw last year. Him and Kadri. Kadri too, eh? Kadri lost some weight, didn't he?

Noticeably. Really? I mean, in the summer, when I was just looking at Instagram, I was like, whoa, he posted a couple pictures. I mean, he wasn't fat, but it's just like by, from where he was, I think, this is the There's all this competition now. Even when you're Nazem Kadri, even with his contract, even as good as he played last year, I think everyone wants to be part of this, right?

And the coach has been pretty clear that everyone's got to still shape up a bit. And, I mean, I don't like going here because every player around the league, best shape of my life. Of course. But definitely Kadri is noticeably slimmer, as is Anderson. Okay. Last year I saw Anderson weighed 230. Well, he's a big boy.

I mean. Like, not fat. Yeah, but most goalies these days are like bone racks, though. Goalies are shaped weird, right? Yeah. They're a little gangly, man. But that's why they're goalies. They're literally skinny, long-limbed, with giant eyes.

Speaking of, you know, like just... So we got two guys that are interesting to me. Polak and Marincin. So is Marincin making this team or not? Which one of them is your whipping boy, or is it both? Neither. Neither. I don't want to make Polak – we gave him too much hell,

and I think he played well at the end of last season, given the role he was put in. Sucks that he had the knee injury, but you've got a slow guy who's now potentially slower. Yes. I don't know what's going to happen there. You know, he said the other day – we had a chance to chat. He's one of the – he's like a real character, a really funny guy.

But he said there's going to be pain all year. So I really think the only question here is his health and where the Leafs feel he's at. If they think he can play, he's getting a contract as the extra D or, again, it might even be the number eight. He might be the number eight who's really the number nine, meaning that when trouble comes, they're bringing someone up and they're playing instead.

I'm not sure. But, you know, I think that they'll probably keep him around if he's healthy. But I don't know if he's healthy. We haven't seen him play in a preseason game. He sat out the very first scrimmage at camp. Like, I got the impression, and this guy's a tough guy, but that he's struggling a little bit. And Marincin?

He's in trouble. I think it's possible they put him on waivers. What do you think they put? What's the Leafs' defensive lineup look like next week? Well, you're going to have Hainsey and Riley for at least the first game. Because I'm not convinced that's going to work long term. Zaitsev and Gardner. And then I think it's going to be Carrick and Rosen.

And then Seven? See, that's just the thing. Seven is probably Marincin if I think about it. Because it doesn't make sense to keep Dermott or Borgman for that spot. For sure. I mean, you'd rather have them playing. That's a pretty deep Marley's defense, by the way. You think about that.

Dermott, Lilligren, Borgman, and then... Hull, too. Hull, yeah. He played really well. Borgman, Hull. I know Nielsen, Leverdi. Like, Valiev's not even in that lineup. And you have Nielsen on a third pair or a second pair?

Potentially. I'd probably put him underneath Borgman. By mid-season. That's crazy. Probably. And I think he has the potential to be a player if he shores some things up. Marlies are looking crazy. Yeah, they're going to be fun.

You know, the more I think about this, maybe this will impact what they do with Lilligren then. Maybe if they're worried that they don't have the spot. Oh, I think they make time for him. I think so too. That's the guy you're like, okay, Renat Valhev, sorry, but we're going to play Timothy. You have a word with Sheldon Keefe. Yeah. Timothy Lilligren, you give him the ice time.

I just don't think, I don't see any reason why. For the reasons you said before, Chris, and I've been on this train for a month and a half, why would you have him go back and you can't monitor him with a team that was in disarray last year, where you could have him in the Marlies, pretty stable team, deep team. He's not going to be expected to do too much with guys that have been there before and that are a little bit older. So you can shelter his minutes a bit. Maybe you don't put him on the first pairing, but he's a right-handed defenseman that you believe in. You can make time.

You can manage his minutes, manage his expectations, and manage his diet and video coaching and all the other things that the Marlies have that no other AHL team and many European teams don't have. Well, and he can come down the street and just be around the Leafs every once in a while. Yeah. Sit down with the coach, watch practice. Practice in the same building. You know, last year, it's funny, last year I remember there was a practice and Jeremy Bracco showed up. And he told me after, like they just invited him in and kind of had him around when they had a meeting

just to get him a feel for it and see the facilities a little bit. And, I mean, I think there's value in all that. Because then when you get there for real, it's just you're comfortable. Yeah. Right? This isn't new. You know, I think that there's really something to be said for that. And it was a brilliant idea, it's probably 10 years ago now,

to move the team back from St. John's. Because, you know, it's a disadvantage just for same-day call-ups, but also some of that underrated stuff where you can use Barb Underhill or, you know, Daryl Belfry, some of the skills coaching, and skating coaching they have. I just think there's a lot more crossover in what they do with basically being in the pad next to each other out in Etobicoke. You saw Montreal last night.

Both of you. I'd like to know what you saw from Montreal last night. Remembering that it is preseason, so all the Habs fans listening, don't jump down our necks here. But I have personally thought that their team seems just incomplete. Like, it seems like there's holes in that team that they meant to have filled that they weren't able to. I 100% agree, but I don't think last night was the perfect game to show that.

They hit, I think, three crossbars, three posts. They beat Freddie on all of those. He tried to stop it, couldn't, you know, didn't go in the net. So it's not a shot on goal if it hits the post, which I think is a little silly. But, like, they're inches away. They're so close. So last night might have been the best they've looked offensively all preseason, and they only got one goal.

Chris? It's going to be an interesting season, man. They've scored seven goals in five preseason games. Please look at Chris's face on the video when you're listening to this. Please go to this part of the video just to see Chris's face. But I'm not laughing at them. I'm just thinking of how much time I spent in that city and how it really gets even crazier than Toronto about stuff around a team.

And the concern for this team was that they couldn't score. And it's not just that they're 0-5 at this point. They haven't scored. And so, as Steve says, yes, they hit the post and stuff, so maybe it is going to come and everything will go away, but, you know, they're going to want to take advantage of a weak Leafs lineup in Quebec City on Wednesday. How have they not signed Yermir Yager?

Scoring's an issue. Wow. Speed's an issue there. Speed's an issue, okay. Or, you know, I was surprised they didn't go after, like, a Thomas Vanik or something like that. You know, that's all he can do, but at least he gives you that. They've been there, though.

Yes, they have. That's true. They got him before. As a Leafs fan, I have seen many a perfect storm. It seems like the perfect storm for unhappiness in Montreal because you've got a guy like Jonathan Drouin, who I think is fantastic, and I think he's going to do a good job, but he's going to be basically burdened with carrying the whole load for this team.

Him and Pacioretty, for sure. Him and Pacioretty. Well, and Pacioretty already gets dumped on. You know, the guy always scores 30 goals, money in the bank pretty much, and he still gets dumped on. And I just feel like no matter how much he scores, if the team overall has trouble scoring, it's going to come back to him. Well, on the blue line, there's some issues there.

I mean, this Victor Mete, I hope I'm saying that right. I think so. Mete, I think they called him yesterday. I mean, he's been their most exciting guy in camp. Out of nowhere, this guy looks like he can make the team. But their blue line is questionable, much like the Leafs, granted. But, like, they don't have a regular partner for Shea Weber at this point. And it might be a guy on the Knights.

And it might be a 19-year-old kid from the London Knights who's buddies with Mitch Marner. Wow. Which, you know, maybe that'll work out. I mean, it's not – he might be a September sweetheart. Like, it's hard to know. Like, there's always these guys – I saw Kaler Yamamoto, first-round pick of the Oilers, has five goals in preseason.

He's probably not playing in the NHL this year, at least for any length of time. But, you know, and I don't want to diminish what those guys are doing, but there's a different – I don't think the league's trying fully yet. Right. But there's This is man Like Montreal has

I mean they're Doubling down on everything Right They're not rebuilding Like they're trying to win With this core They just paid Carey Price

A lot of money Which I think he's worth But it's a gamble It's eight years extension I mean I get why they did it But You're not leaving a window

To get crappy In there You know I don't think They want to I think they've honestly Had this internal Look we all know They need a center

And they're hoping John and Duran could be a center in the NHL. They're done with the Galchenyuk thing for now. But how do you get a center? You win the lottery. And they nearly won the Alistair Matthews lottery. Oh, I know. I know.

I think you were the first one to write about that. Oh, my dear God. Well, someone that works in Montreal told me about it, so it wasn't that I even realized. Like, my point is it's in their minds. The Leafs nearly won the Conor McDavid lottery. Yep. Yeah.

The way the Leafs were one lottery ball away from winning McDavid, the Habs were one lottery ball away from winning Matthews. Right. I mean you could do this to death. Yeah. I mean even and I don't know how good Nico Heischer is going to be although he's looked great in preseason. He has. He has. But like that was the weirdest lottery ever in terms of it was like the 5th, 8th and 13th teams

of odds ended up 1, 2, 3 or whatever it was. It was the first lottery that was actually like chaotic. It was a true lottery. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't just so this we could go back through any since they've instituted the draft lottery. I believe do you remember the Patrick Steffen

play where he had the empty net and he hit the post. Yes, and then they come back and score, right? Now, I believe I should have fact-checked this, that that made Edmonton get an extra point, and they would have won Patrick Kane. That that point made the difference of them getting Patrick Kane.

So you could always do stuff like this. Yes, I think you're right. My point is, you could always do stuff like this. I mean, it's such a crazy game. And when you introduce lotteries and weird things, but I mean, imagine McDavid... Now, imagine this, since I don't know why we're down the rabbit hole here.

Imagine McDavid became a Leaf, but then Matthews became a Hab the next year. Utter chaos. Chaos. Anarchy. Anarchy. Because I'll say, I definitely have McDavid as the number one of this young group,

but I think Matthews might be a little bit closer than he's getting credit for at this point. Closer to McDavid. Yes. I think that I could see those two... Dueling? legit being the top two players in the league in a couple years' time, and sort of unquestionably. What about Jack Eichel?

Where does he factor? Number three? Yes, he's very good. After coming back from that injury last year, he was nearly a point a game. I'm not really a big fantasy hockey guy, but I'm grabbing Jack Eichel. Career high of 24 goals, he's going to beat that. I'm not down on

Jack Eichel by any stretch. I'm actually more saying that I think, because Austin Matthews didn't arrive with the same hype level as the Crosbys and McDavids, because he was kind of an unknown from a weird place, an unusual place for hockey. Then he played in Switzerland. No one really saw him play.

He got hyped up. It wasn't the same degree. I think we're only just understanding how good he is. I mean, he was second in the league as a teenager in five-on-five shots. Like, he is a monster. Like, you watch him on the ice. He gets the puck from everywhere. He just, like, it's crazy how much he controls the play.

And he's got a shot. He's got all the physical tools. Did he get knocked over, like, what, more than two or three times last year by a hit? No, he's strong. Jake Dodgion hit him once. I think he got hit by someone on Detroit in the outdoor game. Of course Jake freaking Dodgion hit him too, man. Leaf killer.

He wasn't even hit hard. I think he got, like, knocked over by Chara in the second game, and it made all the highlight reels. Right. But it's just, I mean, and obviously he got hit a little bit more than that, but, like, he, man, he doesn't obviously have the speed. No one does of McDavid. And I think McDavid is likely to win a whole bunch of scoring titles.

But don't be surprised if Matthews is a little closer to him than I think we all think right now. I mean, even people look at last year and they look at 100 points and 69 points. It looks like it's a huge gap. I bet it will be much narrower than that when the totals are done this season. Who else around the league? Sorry, I'm not trying to get you excited. No, no, no. No, I really believe this.

I'm not just trying to stir up some hype train or something. I think that the hockey world doesn't totally yet realize how good this guy is. Who else around the league fascinates you? Players, teams? Who are you going to be following this year in terms of intrigue? Tampa fascinates me. Yeah? Because they're amazing, right?

They should be. I think they should have won the Cup last year. I called it. I was like, Tampa-Nashville is what I thought. Yeah. One half right. But it might still happen. That could still happen.

That's the funny part, right? You get a Tampa-Toronto series with the way the Divisional playoffs work. That'd be amazing! Imagine that And it would be all Canadians at the Tampa game too Not that there's not Lightning fans, there are But there's so many Canadians down in that area I just think it'd actually be kind of cool

There'd be a lot of skill in that series John Cooper would be a riot Cooper versus Babcock In terms of the hype machine, that would be amazing Matthews versus Stamkos Yeah, that'd be a storyline Kucherov, Nylander And they are a deep team

They're deep Tampa, I mean, right now, if they were playing that series starting tomorrow, Tampa's favored for sure. Absolutely. Their defense. Headman and Strollman, come on. And even that Sergeyev, like, I think. Which is so not fair.

Like, they have Sergeyev, too. Like, come on. Steve Eisenman, man. He's brilliant. He's good. Well, and Julian Brisebois, who doesn't get talked about so much. He's the assistant GM. I'm not saying he's the total brains behind the operation,

but I think that that duo has something. I mean, if I was another team hiring a GM, I'm going to get Tampa's assistant. But anyway, they've made a lot of good decisions. And even when they ran into cap trouble, like somehow they're like trading players. They're like a go-between at the trade deadline last year. They get rid of Phil Palah. I mean, they just, even when they lose, they kind of win, if you know what I'm saying. They handled that sort of loss season well, I thought.

And they didn't give Drew Annaway. They didn't panic. Like, they got – I mean, Sergachev could be special. And I get why the Habs make that trade. Like, the Habs, again, because they're extending their window as long as they can. They need a center. They don't plan on finishing last. And they hope.

But, like, Tampa, I don't know. They could have given him away two years ago or whatever when he went to Syracuse. Didn't want to be there and held out for six weeks, was it, and then played in the playoffs? They get the ninth pick for him. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so power players in the East and the West. Who do you think are the big teams in the East and the big teams in the West? So Tampa's one of them.

Tampa's got to be one. I mean, you can't – I can't look over Pittsburgh. Of course not. I mean, it seems crazy. They are kind of an afterthought. They seem even more decimated. Like, after having two of the best centers in the world, I'm not sure what they're going to do with their third and fourth line centers. Carter Rowney.

But they lost Nick Bonino, who is a pretty decent third-line center. But I guess you can address that if you're them. Every player wants to play there. Might be Greg McKegg. Might be. I saw an exhibition. They have Greg McKegg. The rise of Greg McKegg.

Yeah. Wow. Wow. That guy's been around, man. He's been on a lot of teams. He was on Tampa last year. Florida. Tampa.

Toronto. Yeah. They're going to have Letang back. They won the cup without Letang. and you know matt murray has all he's done in his two years in the league is win two cups so you know that's a decent goal garbage he's just garbage he's like 23 two cups at 23 and he's like he's got the aura man yeah i spent a lot of time around him because i covered their cup runs like he's got the like i'm the best goal in the world aura like i know he's not recognized as that yet

but i mean we can't say he can't get there he's it's unbelievable like look at his ohl numbers like I've always tried to figure out what happened here He was not a bad goalie But he was not the star of the OHL Didn't make the Canadian World Junior Team And by 22 he's got two cups And he has like the best AHL season on record

Goalie scouting is fascinating He's got the mindset And I think obviously it's physical But I think mental that position is It's all in your head You gotta be on a different level So that team If they don't just fall apart

We've played 380 games in the last two years. I'm exaggerating a little bit. But if they could win again. Caps are an interesting team. What happens there? Do you think they're better now that the pressure's off? No. No.

They traded away some good players. They lost Justin Williams. Pride of Coburn, Ontario. Absolutely. Da-ding. I think that they're worse right now. They lost Nate Schmidt, who was pretty good in that first-round series against the Leafs. They had Shattenkirk in their top six last year, and obviously he left in free agency.

They're taking a step back. I mean, a step back from winning the President's Trophy by, like, 20 points. They were, like, resting guys on March 8th because they had it all locked up, basically. I want to talk about teams that should have won the Cup. You know, that might actually help them. I mean, you can never do this, but to be in a real playoff race might actually have them in a better position come the playoffs. Makes them sharper. I believe that, and you can't stimulate.

I'm not faulting them either, but you can't. Like, the Leafs could have beat them in that series, seriously. But the Leafs were playing crazy games right through the stretch. I mean, they lost three games in overtime. I don't know if you remember that. Yes. No. Yeah.

I bet you weren't sad when they got beat out, though. I handled it better than I thought I would. It's like one of those things, like, you're happy that it happened rather than being sad that it's over. Like, when it went to overtime, I remember, like, prepping myself, like my inner dad, just going, now they might lose here, Steven. They might lose here, and I want you to just remember

how proud you are of this team. And then they lost. In the West, we had Gus Katsaros on a few years, a few weeks ago, and Gus said that he doesn't think the Chicago Blackhawks are a playoff team. What do you think? I think they're a playoff team. You think they're a playoff team? I get where he's coming from, though.

I mean, their blue line after Duncan Keith is our old buddy Cody Franzen trying to win a job there. But, you know, they've just been slowly stripped of talent. I mean, it's what the Leafs are going to fight or the Oilers are going to fight, you know, now that they're paying McDavid and Dreisaitl. They've been stripped of the depth that you need to be really great in this league. So I think they'll be worse, but missing the playoffs. I mean, he must be high, what, on Winnipeg maybe? It's a really good division

Dallas is probably going to take a step Dallas is going to be better for sure Who do you think the real power in the West is? Besides Nashville If you went to the Stanley Cup Finals last year I don't think you can discount either of those teams Edmonton and Anaheim to me I was just about to say both of them

They played a pretty epic series Last year as a second round Very underrated All sorts of chaos Controversy, goals waved off A 7-1 7-1 game. Genuine hate.

How many millions of dollars did Leon Drysaddle make in Game 6? Oh my gosh, so many. All the millions. All the millions in one game. Playoffs will do that. Do you think Calgary's a factor? Mike Smith is just a real X factor in that. And whether they score enough.

Why did they go with Mike Smith? They had other options. But they didn't really have other options. I mean... Was he the only guy that you think... Well, think about it. Who else moved spots? Steve Mason went to Winnipeg.

Yeah. I'm not more sold on Steve Mason. Mike Smith has done it. And keep in mind, there's strong ties to Arizona in Calgary. Brad Tree Living, the GM of the Flames, was the assistant GM with Arizona. Don Maloney, the old GM of the Coyotes, is there in capacity. I'm not sure his title. Even some scouts.

So there's an old Arizona connection in Calgary, and often people believe in their guy. And backed up by Eddie Lack, who did not have a very good season last year. They got that Gillies kid, though. Yeah, they have two good goaltenders. Everyone seems pretty interesting. Yeah, in the AHL. I'm trying to remember the fourth one.

Err, me too. But strong defense around them. Yes. Arguably the best blue line in the league, or certainly in that conversation. Just because Nashville's got some injuries right now. Mm-hmm. That's what they figure, right? Pretty dynamic group.

And then, you know, I think they still need some scoring on the right side. Do you know what I'd be curious to see? Because we didn't even talk about him, but Josh Levo needs a new home at some point because I don't see a role for him with the Leafs. He would fit perfect to Calgary, I think. For a draft, though. It makes a lot of sense.

They need someone on the right side. I think that they've looked at Jager, the Flames. I think that they were even interested in Justin Williams back on July 1st, another right-shot winger. They need a little bit more to play with some other skill guys. And I wonder, I mean, that could be, Levo might hit the jackpot. He might end up playing with Johnny Hockey or something.

And he'd be lethal. He's got a great shot. I mean, I'm not saying it's going to happen. That, to me, looks like a place where it makes a whole lot of sense. Justin Bourne the other day tweeted, Josh Levo strikes me as the kind of guy who will get traded to a team like the Coyotes and score 15 to 20 goals. And I think you just laid it out right there.

There's the framework. There's other teams. St. Louis needs help on the right. You said in your last article at Sportsnet.ca that somebody actually inquired. about Josh Levo. I did. And that the price was prohibitively high. So what does prohibitively high on Josh Levo mean?

Six firsts. I think the Leafs aren't giving him away for like a fourth round pick or something. Okay. So we're talking maybe a draft pick for him? They're asking for another player, I think. So... A player or a plur?

Plur. Plur. Okay, all right. It's very important. Uh, so I, I just, I sense PL apostrophe R. It's true. We should just caption Mike Babcock's thing and just like, just a picture of him with white writing underneath.

Good player. The time might come though, where they do the right thing for him because they did that for Frank Corrado. You know, I know it was Rocky, but he did eventually get trade to Pittsburgh. Was Holland a trade? Yes. Yes, it was. Conditional sixth.

They did the right thing for Peter Holland when it was clear he wasn't going to play and it was stretching on. So if, in fact, Levo just ends up as a scratch again, he only played 18 games last year between the Marlies and the Leafs, and he had a small injury, but it was largely just the Leafs were so healthy and they had a good season and there wasn't a lot of reason to put him in. Even though he played well when he got in, he was always behind someone. So if he's still in that position and the season starts dragging on,

I could see a trade. Was that an example of the Leafs cheating and everybody letting them? How so? Well, he was just on injured reserve for so long. Well, no, he told me he had hip issues, though. Okay. No, I was just referring to Joffrey Lupo. Yeah, which we wanted to ask you about anyway.

I think that's going to shake out. I think it's done. Well, it looks like it's done. The deadline's passed, right? Didn't the NHL launch their own, though? We have to remember, the reason this story got the play it got is because Joffrey in his Instagram post seemed to suggest that he was healthy. Seemed to suggest that the system was a joke and that he could have passed his medical.

Waiting for a call. I'm awaiting the call. Which is still up, by the way. Ha ha, failed physical, you know. But they passed the window where he could challenge that. So if he's not actually in an official way challenging that he's healthy, I just don't see the league going there and going like, oh yeah, he's healthy. Because keep in mind, there's a huge bit of gray here.

Like, Joffrey Lupo, like, go to his page. He was injured a lot in his career. I don't think medically it's that hard to find evidence he's not. Didn't he have back surgery? Like, couldn't he even? He nearly, he had to spend, like, a month straight in bed. He got, like, a rare blood infection when he had back surgery in his 20s with the Anaheim Ducks. And, like, he nearly lost his career.

He missed a whole year. And then came to the Leafs and was an All-Star. Yeah. But had all sorts of stuff. And some of it totally not his fault. Like, got hit with a shot in practice and, like, broke a foot or something. Like, just stuff that's going to happen. Broke his arm with a...

Dion Phaneuf. He accidentally blocked a Dion Phaneuf shot. Right. I mean, it wasn't all just because he was fragile. Just, he had some bad luck, too. So, but my point is, if he's not contending he's healthy, I can't see an independent doctor going and saying you're healthy. Unless he actually is.

And he didn't fight it. So, like, to me, he made a flippant comment in the moment. He's not pushing it. I would suspect this will just be the end. Because as soon as the NHL doctor says he's not healthy, the Leafs have said he's not healthy he's not challenging anything well they're just going to pay him for another year and that's that uh an article of yours that i read a week or two ago began the same way that a few uh other articles that i read about him began which was the last time i spoke to joffrey loophole was that

when was that february 2016 you said yeah so the exact context of that was mike cormack we both report, too, at Sportsnet, had said, we need a story for Sunday on the Leafs. And I was going away that weekend. I was doing some other trips. So I needed to get something that was not of the moment so much. And there had been minor, and I mean really minor, suggestions. Lupo might not play out his whole contract. He still had two and a bit years left to go.

So it just happened, as happens sometimes. It was his 700th NHL game that night. It was the morning skate. And a whole bunch of people are just saying, do you remember your first game? the sort of questions that guys get asked but so he was kind of going down memory lane a bit and so i just waited for the scrum to end and i said have you ever thought about like the end and we had like a really i was just surprisingly candid conversation about imagining what his life would look like when he's not playing anymore uh talking about how the league had changed so much

in his years and i was looking around and seeing all these young guys dominating the game and he wonders if he can keep up and and he he made a caveat in there i don't have in front of me but He said something like, you know, I hope I still have a long time left, but you never know. So I saved that story for about four days. I believe that was like a Tuesday just because it was a feature. And I ended up writing the story kind of, you know, what it's like to be an older guy in a league that's changing really quickly and you feel like the sand shuffling on your feet. So anyway, he played that night in his 700th game.

He played on the Saturday in Ottawa, his 701st game. That story went up first thing Sunday morning, and we never saw him again. I mean total coincidence honestly but he disappeared and they didn't say anything for like two weeks you know they probably said lower body injury or this or that whatever and that's actually where you came on this show

I think the first time you were on this show and you said he doesn't have a locker anymore right all this stuff you broke that here that's right so it was just weird because we had this really open conversation kind of like more I wouldn't normally be comfortable asking a guy that especially in the middle of the season but he was kind of down memory lane and I don't know I felt

we weren't tight or anything but like i just felt like he knew i wasn't i wasn't a jerk yeah yeah it's just sort of like what's it like man to get older in this league essentially and and he was really honest about it and he talked about how he has all these other interests and people know about that but like for him hockey is everything and that he really doesn't want that to be taken away it's just kind of eerie because then he disappears then i hear he didn't have his locker then i'm told he didn't that year that was in february they announced he had sports hernia surgery but on locker clean out day he wasn't back for the team picture which is very strange because that same year, James Van Riemsdijk blocked a shot with his foot,

missed about the same period of time with a broken foot. He was back for the team picture because he's part of the team. And you always got the sense something was wrong. And so the reason I started my article that way, I always wonder when I asked him that, did he already know something was going on behind the scenes? Was it just literally pure luck that I asked this question? Did they let him play a 700 game in a sentimental thing before shuffling him off?

I mean, probably we'll never have the answer to this unless Joffrey wants to illuminate it, and I can't see why it would ever be in his interest to do that. The other writer I was alluding to was Steve Simmons, and I just got to read the excerpt because it's so funny. Simmons, Maple Leafs don't want Leupold, and there's nothing he can do about it. The last of our conversations was accidental. Joffrey Leupold answered his cell phone and said hello, thinking he recognized the incoming number. Shit, he said upon my introduction.

I didn't know it was you. I have a friend with a similar number. I thought it was him. If I knew it was you, I wouldn't have picked up. See, I saw someone was making fun of that opening to a story. I actually thought that was pretty good. It's a good hook. Oh, it's great.

It's great. It went viral. It got some attention for the story. I don't feel like that's betraying anything between him and Joffrey either. I mean, it's kind of amusing. I think people are, I mean, and I think sometimes for good reason. I think people are bound to blow whatever Steve Simmons posts a little bit out of the water just because of the type of attention that Steve attracts through some of his tweets.

He's a controversial writer, controversial guy. That's what happens. But I feel like I'm missing something because I certainly would go on record. I thought it was asinine, the whole hot dog thing. I thought that was just such a cheap shot. It was. and so my point is i'm not defending steve per se but i to me first of all i want to read what comes after that which is good writing to begin with yeah and and i don't feel like he's really

betraying joffrey's trust there you know he's he's just he's kind of giving you a sense that he's one of the last guys that has talked to him if not the last and there's always been this shroud of mystery around it and that even joffrey wouldn't have answered the call had he known i was a reporter um yeah that was the impression i got it wasn't uh but it's funny Someone in the press box said, like, can you believe he led with that? I was like, are you kidding? I thought that was a great lead. It's perfect.

That's called a story. That's what hooks people in. That's a great story. I get that Steve Simmons isn't everyone's cup of tea, but, like, that's very funny. But, you know, this would be crossing the line in a very hypothetical world. If you're writing about someone, and let's say you say, last time I saw him, he was 10 beers deep at this bar, and I bumped into him. You know, something like that that's sort of incriminating him. But, I mean, it's normal for reporters to call people for interviews.

It's normal sometimes to catch people off guard. It's normal for them to be wishing they weren't talking to you. I mean, I guess just because I've seen it from the inside, to me, I'm like, yeah, that's perfectly a normal exchange. And good for Steve for telling a good story about that. This is the part where, you know, I know that there are certain people that are not jacked about us. Dude, timestamp it, please. But, you know, I think we would be remiss and we wouldn't be a proper show if we didn't address what's going on right now. So, you know, we have just, you know, everybody knows about Donald Trump's tweets.

What's going on? Everybody knows about the NFL protests and everybody knows about the NBA and the Warriors being disinvited and LeBron calling Trump a bum and Steve Kerr and Greg Popovich speaking out and DeMar DeRozan and Kyle Lowry and Masai Ujiri here in Toronto speaking out about it last night. And all of those people that I just named have been so eloquent about it. And then, you know, NASCAR not even waiting for Donald Trump and going, you're fired as one of our drivers if you ever kneel during the anthem. And then Dale Jr. responding and going, well, that's the whole point is you're supposed to be able to do this. Blake Wheeler actually saying something. JT Brown getting death threats. Jacob Truva said something.

Matt Hendricks. So yesterday you were at Leafs, I guess it was the game day skate, Chris, and Austin Matthews talked about it. And he said something, and I'm paraphrasing here because you have the exact quote, but it was something along the lines of, listen, I believe that's their right. They can protest anything. That's the whole point. It's the First Amendment.

but he said for me personally I find protesting during the flag disrespectful because I had members of my family in the military, that sort of thing and then Nazem Khadri talked a little bit about the slippery slope you get into when you get into these types of conversations

What did you deduce from those conversations that you had with the players yesterday? How do they feel? This is hard man Greg Popovich honestly put it the best way for me like you brought clarity to just because even myself like you sometimes forget how privileged you are as a white person it's not something you actively are thinking about

all the time I think at a time like this you are because you reflect upon it and you really are I mean if you're not I don't know how you're not human right now if you're not at least thinking about this this wider conversation and so it's so hard for the hockey community i think at times to think about this and it should it really should so i think first of all it's very fair because i had a lot of people on twitter yelling at me and i'm sure the other reporters saying you shouldn't be asking players about this i mean i get that maybe some people don't want to hear it but we're not excluded from the world and this is a like everyone who works for a pro sports organization in north america yesterday and probably today but yesterday

for sure was asked about these kinds of questions. I mean, this isn't a small thing, but you know, it's hard for me to criticize too heavily any of the players themselves, because there's a lot of things in my own mind I haven't figured out, or I haven't, maybe I've taken for granted. And it's hard to expect a 20 year old kid, for example, like Austin to be the face of this because even though he grew up with a Mexican mother and a white father you know and I don't actually know this side of him or maybe he didn't experience racism the way certainly it seems a lot of the NFL players and the NBA players that have stepped up and discussed their experiences and why they've taken certain stances and maybe he hasn't thought about all this I mean maybe he's

thinking differently about it right now I sure as hell wasn't a 20 I wasn't aware of it I know what white privilege was later and seeing the reaction and maybe thinking out more like I know he's a big fan of russell westbrook kind of as a guy in his fashion and everything but you know i saw russell had some really interesting comments yesterday maybe austin went home and watched that and maybe he's thinking differently today too but it's hard for me to like take one sentence from any of these guys and say like you know they really screwed up here i mean i think the penguins is a different conversation and crosby is a different conversation because he's he's lebron's equivalent and they as an organization really had to think about this make a decision why did they

come up with that press release on the day to take in the nfl hashtag and all that was happening why that day i think maybe before we get to that because there was some confusion on twitter where does a decision like that come from because people were like man they're pr guys stupid and i'm like i don't think from a little higher than that they would consult the pr the twitter account I'm just going to just throw it out there. The audio is a bit wonky right now because our computer hard drive ran out of space for some reason. So you're going to hear some camera audio there. But I think Chris made a good point.

Let's go back to, and I know Chris is completing a message here. To my nephew. The question we ended at was. Who makes that choice? The PR. So is it the PR person who's told what to do? The Twitter person, as Jesse so eloquently said? Well, typically this would involve the president of the team, a guy named David Morehouse, who worked actually with Bill Clinton back in the day.

So he's a noted Democrat. Ron Burkle, actually, the other owner with Mario Lemieux of the team, has donated lots of money to the Democrats. So strangely, the top decision makers in this organization are actually democratically leaning. But it would typically be in a room, I think, with the GM, Jim Rutherford, the president, David Morehouse. They have a senior PR person there that used to be like on the ground PR, but that's been around. Then they have a PR staff. I mean, I think everybody would be in on a conversation, but come on, the boss always makes the call. I mean, to me, that's on the president of the team, and he's probably talking to the owners.

Is Sidney Crosby the boss, though? No, not on this. I mean, he's the boss. He probably has some sway. Like, if he wants to fly for a certain road trip a day early or something, he can probably go and say, hey, we should do this and this is why. But I don't think, you know, it wouldn't have been his decision. Again, though, he would have been there as a player's voice

or he would have been talked to at some point if he wasn't involved in the actual meeting. But I'm sure a lot went into this. They must have been getting asked. That's the only thing I can think about because the news about Steph Curry came out Saturday. so I mean I wasn't the one asking them but it would make sense other reporters like hey wait there's this other championship team in our sport and they started

pushing the Penguins to get information on what they were doing it's a bad look though you don't have to say anything it comes out Sunday morning it's at fever pitch Sunday morning with the NFL it was Sunday morning and I was like eating my

popcorn watching it was like it was really fascinating it was like it was a cool day in sports I think in a lot of ways i realize a lot of it is fueled by hate or anger frustration but i mean it's a unifying day too there's a lot of people standing together on these issues and again even making me reflect on things that in my life and i assume i'm not alone i mean it's the kind of day that gets your attention and you know i'm a sports fan too and so to have them come out with the wind blowing the other way i just i don't understand why they had to why they did it that

day but they owned it i mean they played that day as well so their players were available sydney crosby talked about it mike sullivan talked about it said he supported it and you know part of this is that i think we're we are all recognizing that free speech has to be respected and and so well i would not in their situation advocate in any way to go stand with that president and to help him with his propaganda and what he's selling he immediately used them as a propaganda the tool like yeah immediately minutes later and you and you let's imagine like they haven't said when they're going yet but they play in washington on october 11th so it could be as soon as a couple weeks from now they would play there later in the season too so i don't know when they're going but

it could be in a couple weeks and you don't think that picture you don't think trump isn't going to be on some high horse about that and again to me this isn't political it's not about something much different than republicans and democrats and just because the guy in office is a misogynist like known noted long time before he got elected like like audio and video numerous yeah things oh he was just joking this isn't a matter of conjecture that's how real men talk it's a matter of fact shut up floyd you know things that have happened since then he's taken very clear racial stances that are just not what any country should think and should have the leader of their country be not the least of which is you know a country that is has been through this many times before

You know, this is supposed to be stuff that we're past. But he's using it. That's the worst. He's using it to divide people. He saw what happened in Virginia, and he's using it to say, well, some of these people aren't so bad. Like, he's appealing to friggin' neo-Nazis. And yet, NFL players are sons of bitches for kneeling during a flag. There's supposed to be a neo-Nazi rally in Peterborough.

Today? I think it's on the weekend. Peterborough fucking Ontario. That doesn't surprise me. So I think this is why it's good that it's coming to sport. I think that the hockey world needs to look at itself. And look, I grew up in a small town. I'm a white guy.

There weren't many people of color in my town when I was a kid. I've been associated with this sport professionally since I was 18 years old. There's not a ton of people of color in the NHL, be it in media relations, be it in front offices, be it on the ice, be it referees. the more i think of it even people covering the sport i mean there's certainly some some of these people are my friends you know it's like it's not but it's it's a long way off being representative of even what toronto is as a city or what canada is as a country or what north america is no matter how you view it so i think that the hockey world has to think of its place

in the wider world because what's comfortable or easy in hockey shouldn't just be comfortable and easy i think that that the questions being asked by these other athletes and what's interesting here to me is that all these players have cover or all these teams have cover because you have lebron james you have tons of influential people across the nfl you have steph curry russell westbrook like the most recognizable athletes in north america like just really taking a strong stance here you have guys like greg popovich and steve kerr like really articulating from a position where there are white people talking about this, and I just feel that the hockey world needs to step up a little bit.

But I'm not going to hammer them only on yesterday because maybe not everyone has thought about this. It took the NFL a year to get it because certainly Kaepernick was the only guy doing it last year with maybe a couple teammates. It's taken them this long, and it wasn't until, and I don't know if you saw Shannon Sharp's rant on Undisputed last night. Yeah, it was epic.

unbelievable so like such a brilliant thing that he said but what you know but basically the just the conversation was are you kidding me it took you this long to get this now we've got jerry jones nice to see you ray rice yeah and and bob craft and all these guys that donated to trump going now we're going to be unified right now we're going to take a knee uh not ray rice no ray lewis ray lewis yeah who took both knees sorry i know like ray rice is also players I think what gets me and I wanted to ask this question because I don't know the answer to it

this entire discourse is uncomfortable and it should be it should be uncomfortable, we should be examining ourselves and going what is it that we want to be what is it that we want our kids to say about us what do we want to accomplish in this time because things are changing whether we like it or not

hockey literally just got together and had a press conference three weeks ago and said, this is what we want to be. Which you can wipe your ass with now. Right. But it's called the Declaration of Principles, and it's literally pretty straightforward. It's not that long to read.

Look, we got the Pope! We got the Pope! And one of the principal tenets is hockey is for everyone. And I feel like by going and standing with the president, you're supporting him. Now, it's not because he's a Republican, right? It's because it's him. Well, it's because what's been said.

Right. And what's happening in the other sports. and to me it's a message that suggests that it isn't for everyone and I know that they're going to say they don't intend it that way that they're trying to stay out of politics but you can't stay out of this like this is bigger than you can't just say well we'd go if it was this president

like this is big this is serious this has gotten the attention of the sports world and you know I just think hockey has to think people in hockey really have to think about this stuff because a lot of their experiences are similar to mine. And it's from a different place than where the people that have, you know, where Karl Kaepernick came from.

Even though it's, you know, it's a pretty small, I've traveled all around all these places, but like sometimes you just take for granted certain things. And I think this is a period where those that are from predominantly white or European backgrounds, you know, a lot of the hockey, it's Canadians, it's people from Sweden, that's two of the top three countries in the NHL representative by numbers, I have to think about this a little bit more. And this is an opportunity to do it.

That's the positive side of this. And, you know, I'd like to see more players follow Blake Wheeler and, you know, really say something about this. Because to me, hockey looks really bad in all of this. It's hard to define hockey. There's a lot of people in hockey. That means a lot of things. Professional hockey in North America.

But the NHL does not come out of this looking very good. Okay, a couple questions. And these are ones that I've been dying to ask you since yesterday. First one is, is it unfair of us? You know, we already kind of established, you know, 20-year-old kid, Austin Matthews. You know, he's not the captain. He's not, you know, we acknowledge that at 20 years old. Your perspective on life is a lot different in 30 than it is at 30.

And being almost 30, I can attest to that. Sidney Crosby, you mentioned, is the face of the game. He is the LeBron James. He is the, you know, the Bryce Harper. You know, he's the big face, right? he's fair to criticize is it unfair of us to expect a guy

and I don't want to take away from any of the charitable initiatives that he's done because he's done many but is it unfair of us to expect Sidney Crosby and I don't know the answer to this to be a champion of social change and I have my opinion

on this but I don't want to give it I want to know what you guys think all three of you is it unfair of us to ask a guy who's literally never taken a stance on anything other than let's win some hockey games to go, this is wrong. Someone else go first.

Jesse? My disappointment comes, there's this thing fuck you money. Sidney Crosby, LeBron James, Steph Curry, Jerry Jones they have fuck you money. Dave Chappelle had fuck you money when he told Comedy Central I'm going to Africa for 10 years

and coming back and doing whatever the fuck I want. And Sidney Crosby has the ability to say whatever he wants for the rest of his life because he can do whatever he wants he has enough money to live he he doesn't need hockey yeah he can go live his life and he has the ability to say whatever he wants beyond his enormous contract incredible endorsement deals yep never do anything ever again he'll be fine he'll live his life and he took he decided to take no stance and it's disappointing to see somebody in a position of power who millions of people listen to take the stance of nothing so that's my opinion steve you're next and like to expand on what you're

saying like i feel like sydney crosby is kind of a mystery and like we've talked about for over 10 years how he just kind of says nothing and we know very little about him and then you know the one opportunity he has to take a stance on something to show us something about him this is what he shows us and it's shitty like i met sydney crosby i made a really funny video with Sidney Crosby and I I don't know it's just all a little tainted like it's gonna be harder to joke about all the big butt jokes like I used to make like

he's not he's not all shucks anymore there's a stink there's a stink about it and it's not taken away from who he is as a hockey player for the love of God like he's the been the best guy for the past decade that's not what we're talking about we're expecting guys to Be better than this

I saw some people arguing about LeBron James' athletic legacy Yesterday like that That's not what this has to There's nothing to That's not what this is about You mentioned a word there And Bob McKenzie mentioned it on the TSN broadcast

Yesterday and that's divisiveness I was really angry Yesterday and I'm going through Well for the last couple days Just on Twitter and I was going through this Twitter's a tire fire right now. It sure is. Oh, my God.

It's terrible. And I never tweet. Never tweet. Never. Oh, sorry. What's that? Never read the comments? Sorry.

I interpret that as always read them, which is what I always do. Read every comment you've ever been given. Yeah. I took a step back. I go, okay, what's going on here? Like, it's good to slow things down sometimes and compartmentalize them. the kneeling thing and the warriors not going to see the president are two very different issues yes they are incredibly different issues and they were painted as one thing and then the whole

the the kneeling thing which was supposed to be protesting one thing was then turned into this care this this uh care bearers countdown unity thing it's it's not the fucking same and then the war like the warriors were taking a stance against something it wasn't police brutality and they have in the past in fairness the nba many stars in the nba have made it very clear where they stand on that topic but it's not the same so you want to talk about divisiveness it's almost like a package deal when it comes to ideologies if you believe the penguins should be going to the white house i feel like people felt pressure to take a certain side on the kneeling thing this whole leave sports alone stick to sports like fucking the president's not sticking when

when the sports ever not been political though beyond that okay because some people change jackie robinson jesse owens come on like are we kidding yeah but some people will tell you to shove that up your ass and they're wrong but they will we as you've put before we work at the toy store like this is wonderful we just we spent the first 90 minutes of the show talking about the Leafs and it was fantastic. You think we want to talk about this shit? We have to! We have to! Because the other option is do nothing

and be complicit. I will not be able to look my kids in the eyes when I'm older and say I did nothing and said nothing. Whatever small impact I have on the world because I do have a microphone in front of me and I know it's small. I get it. I've only got like my 24,000 little fathers. I'm still going to make an impact with that.

You and I both really liked history in school. Yes. And I remember learning things in history and going home and going, mom dad fucking really and they'd be like all right let me give you a little background because they lived it our kids are gonna come home one day and be like what the fuck really that guy was president yeah that guy who's i hope probably head of a tv network or in prison at the end of all this i don't know jesse do you have more to say back to the original question though yeah that's what's sydney's responsibility is sydney crosby responsible yeah absolutely he's

got fuck you money. He's got fuck you money, fuck you money. The team is there because of him. The team's there. And not to mention, like... But he has the fuck you money because he can play hockey really well. Does he have to be more than that? That's the question. I don't know the answer either.

I just want to hear an opinion from him. Right. Just anything. Just give me something. And he gave us nothing. It's like Michael Jordan back in the day. Never take an opinion. Tiger Woods never took a stance on anything. But they never had to face this. This is different, right? They never had to go and say, like, Muhammad Ali took a stance.

Right, but most of the people we call among the greatest athletes, for some reason, don't use the pedestal. But that was during the good times, right? Clinton? The worst that he could say is that he had an affair. Okay, fine. Yeah. Oh, but then you're going to get flamed for what about this, what about that. We're in the age of what about.

Because this person did this, I don't have to listen to them. And now we're just, none of us are listening to each other. So hold on. back to the Sidney Crosby thing back to the Sidney Crosby thing here's where I think it's a problem it allows people

to think that they can be let off the hook on this one I gotta tell you that picture with President Trump is not gonna age well and this is not a Republican or Democrat thing I think people basically know that if I was living in the states I'd probably be a Democrat

he's not And that's the point. It's not Republicans versus Democrats. This is as close to good versus evil as I've seen in my lifetime. And I mean that. This is a person who genuinely does not wish well on anybody else other than himself and his closest family. And even some of those members are, you know, pushed to the side. Oh, and the second... He's supposed to be worried about 300 million people.

He's supposed to be putting the people above himself. Let's ask Puerto Rico what they thought about the football game the other day. Like, fuck. They have no power. Yeah. So I so my my my expectations, I think, of Sidney Crosby were that, you know, you are you do have you're from an area, by the way, in Nova Scotia, that is one of the most racially charged areas in eastern Canada. When I was there, the summer I got there, there was a race riot at Coal Harbor High School. 2008. I was there. The whole Robert E. Lee statue getting torn down.

When I was there this past summer, there was all this talk about, oh God, I wish I could remember the name of the person who was supposed to get their statue torn down. And there was supposed to be a protest there. God, I wish I could remember who it was. But to answer your question bluntly, no, Sidney Crosby absolutely does not have to take a stand. It'd be really nice if he did. He's, you know what, let's talk about glass ceilings. His glass ceiling is greatness. Muhammad Ali is above that.

Legend. Sidney Crosby, if all he wants to do at the end of his life is look back and have us remember him as a very good hockey player, That's his right That's all I'll remember him as You know Fucking You know Put some pucks in the net

Set up some goals Win some rings Sell some skates Sell some bread Yeah and I'm gonna be Disappointed in that Because I know He could have

He's capable more Absolutely You know like We talk about Like people in our everyday lives Like At our jobs You know

If you only do What's in your job description You're not gonna get a pat On the back for that That's the shit you're supposed to do It's the above-and-beyond stuff that gets you promoted that gets you ahead that makes your company special out of Chris's point earlier Tiger Woods my way in Gretzky guys. I don't need to speak more anyone else on this well those guys were Those guys were you know they didn't have to take divisive stances on things right?

They didn't have to now in that time you're talking about. I mean you know there were athletes. It's not like the world was ever perfect. No, but it wasn't. I don't think that they ever had a president quite dividing the country the way this is. You know, I think even, you know, even during the worst days of the Bush administration, I think people spoke out about the Iraq war.

Where were you in this? Where were you in that? Okay, stop with that shit. Can you at least acknowledge what is happening presently is bad? Yeah, and I think that's the thing is that so those guys were never forced to do it. But it's one thing that separates LeBron in this is that, and I feel like he's done this before he doesn't need to do any of this but he's not what he's doing he's not afraid

to step up remember it's during the uh nba finals and he has a house in la and someone had written something racist on his garage the n-word yeah and he but like he he takes that and stands like i don't know he says even what i feel like he's he's more than just an amazing athlete and he's obviously that like that guy is really standing for something i do you know what's funny i don't know Sidney Crosby but I know him a little bit and he's got a lot going through his mind like he's actually honestly a thoughtful guy and that's why that's what I don't doubt so annoying about this I don't doubt that but honestly like he's not you know I've met some players that will go unnamed because it's not productive in this conversation but that literally just like shoot

a puck in the net really well and they don't even really think about why they've just got like this this whatever some kind of gift and they just do it because that's what they do that's sort of they haven't, like, thought twice about why it is they do that or what their choices were in that. Sidney's a very thoughtful guy. That's why I wonder, first of all, if he might make a second statement at some point. Maybe he'll rethink something.

Maybe not. Maybe he's already made it and we've missed it as we were recording. That's true. That has happened. That would be wonderful if at the end of all this, the Penguins go, you know what, never mind. Well, it still could happen. It could.

And, you know, here's the thing. I want to respect people's rights here. Well, him too. Yeah. It's just really what we're saying is we expect more of him. If you want to be the face of a league, is that part of it, is my question, I think. Should that be part of it? Is that a job expectation?

Do you know what I mean? Yes. Yeah, we expect more of you. Woe is you. Like, there's a reason we do. There's a reason we do. But let's make no mistake. Like, he's carried hockey for 13 years.

Yes, he has. We're not asking him to carry shit related to hockey right now. But that's what I'm saying. Hockey has to be better. So I think it's on him. It's on him to... I mean, think about it. If he had to come out and said something along the lines

of what we've heard other athletes say, I think yesterday plays out different in the NHL. Because he gives cover for everybody else. Well, if Sidney did it, then I can do it. I mean, it's one part that... You know, in hockey, it's one of my favorite things in the world. It's given me my lifestyle and everything. But one of the things that frustrates me about it

is how conservative people are. I'm not talking about a political leaning, but conservative in the way that everything like this gets approached. That so much of it is that no one wants to stand out. But I feel like if that guy had stood out, he would have given a lot of cover for other players that maybe had more to say yesterday and didn't step up. Maybe Austin had more to say.

Maybe Nazem Khadri had more to say. Or maybe they have more to say now. I mean, maybe they didn't want to be the one guy in the league who's Austin Matthews. You know, that's how players think. They shouldn't. He's a human being above everything else. I mean, as much as we glorify the sport and the Leafs

and everything that's going on, I mean, he's got feelings. He grew up as an American. You know, his mother is a visible minority. He probably has some thoughts on this, but maybe he doesn't feel like, first of all, maybe he doesn't feel informed enough to air certain things. Maybe he doesn't feel comfortable enough, surrounded by a bunch of white Canadians asking him the questions. Maybe he doesn't feel like he should be the one to support him.

I mean, there's a lot of unknowns, and it's not just him. I mean, there's guys on 31 teams that might be thinking more than they're saying. Well, but now, because the Stanley Cup champions made their statement, and Sidney Crosby, well, no, he wasn't MVP this year, but former MVP has made his statement. Like, anything that would be speaking out against that is now officially speaking out against the company line. The company line is that.

Will an NHL player kneel for the national anthem? This year. J.T. Brown said maybe. If there's one, it's him. I mean, give him a lot of credit. He was the one who came out against Tortorello, and Tortorello said, no one on my team at the World Cup is kneeling. And, you know, he funded, put some money in to have a statue pulled down in Tampa.

He's put himself out there more than, he's the one exception. Look, his dad played in the NFL. Yep. You know, maybe he's got a different view on these things because he's been growing up in a different sporting culture than just hockey, that he's been around, or maybe just he's, you know, I don't know JT that well. I've met him a couple times, but I don't.

But maybe he's the one. But it doesn't feel like something. Hockey is so much about, you know, because it seems like that's kind of what the Steelers were trying to do. Although I see there's like statement upon statement afterwards, so now I'm even more confused. Yeah, but then there's stuff about him as well. Well, because he walked out too far

and then got caught when the anthem started. They were supposed to, he was going to just stand in the hallway, but he walked too far out the hallway and then the cameras caught him and he said, well, I can't be seen walking away from the National Anthem. So he was stuck, so he apologized to his team and that sort of thing. So I understand. Listen, I get it.

There is not going to be on either side here, there's not going to be perfection in terms of if you're conservative, if you're liberal, whatever. What we have to understand is there is common decency. Whatever your political leanings, there is commonality in what we all consider

to be decent. And what right now is being challenged is what that is what is common decency what is inclusivity what being a liberal or a conservative means because i don't know it doesn't even i've had so many people tell me what i am it's what it's the things we have no no it's the things that if i was a conservative and you're a liberal it's the things we have in common that are being challenged which is why we're so divided it's not it's not our ideology it's our it's it's the things that binded us before that now seem to be miles apart. And I still think that there is so much that binds us together.

I don't have a problem with people that are conservative. I might be a little liberal leaning, but there's certain conservative values. I'm like, I get that. I'm behind that. And I think vice versa. I also, I wonder at the effect that the internet, text messaging, Facebook, all this stuff are having. I have a rule in my house, and this is going to sound really stupid, But I have a rule with Caprice that we don't fight over text message ever because anything you say good rule anything you say written

Can be taken out of context taken the wrong way into intonation the way you say something your your facial expression Talk with my hands. I got a weird face. It's Yeah, it matters and I wonder if a lot of this divisiveness isn't coming from That same problem on Twitter and Facebook and all the other places Alabama and all people who are sons of bitches and pitted humans against each other. For sure. I totally agree with that, Jesse, and I'm not

trying to diminish that. I'm wondering if, I think before that, I think this was coming, this has been coming for years. This has been a thing that's, you know, we were talking way before the election even started about how nasty people can be online,

right? And how it's pushed people off into their groups, and I think he's taking advantage of that it's not even an online thing um kaepernick's original protest was he sat down for the anthem first of all he never knelt he only started kneeling after a navy seal told him it'd be more respectful if he knelt instead of sitting a navy seal told him that and the original protest was just because there were so many wars against the police and minorities so he decided to sit down to show hey i'm against all of these injustices that are going on in america So it's happening.

But what about the soldiers, Jesse? It's not just online. It's people being killed in streets. Agreed. I know. I realize what you just said and that it's based on history and facts and nuance. But what about the soldiers? I think something we ought to remember, too, is that the flag does not just represent the military.

No. The flag is representative of the military, but it's also representative of teachers, social workers, broadcasters, anybody, everybody. It represents the country as a whole, not just the military institution. It has nothing to do with the flag. Agreed. There's so many people who keep losing the point when they talk about it. It's not a national anthem protest. And even if it did.

It was protesting black injustices in America. And even if it did, the military is not one organism, gelatinous blob. It's a series of individuals, some who support him and some who don't. Just like the regular world. Anyway, it's a very complex, a very tough issue. But, Chris, I think you're right in saying that hockey does not come out of this looking good. And you know what? Gary Bettman was on Sportsnet yesterday with Ken Reed in PEI and said,

I don't think people come to our games to see politics. And I thought, I was not even disappointed with him at this point. I just sort of expect that. I think that's the most Gary Bettman statement I think I've ever heard. I don't expect Gary to be progressive in any sort of way, but that was sort of telling. Well, this is not something that – Gary's a lawyer, and this is not law. I mean, I guess it's about the protection of the law, the fundamental law of being an American. But it's about a little bit more than that.

I mean, I'm not putting this on Gary Bettman. I'm honestly just saying it to other people that have a similar background to me. If Roger Goodell can make a statement, though. If Roger freaking Goodell – and now, we know why he did it. But see, everyone just is angry right now. So we're looking for all these people to be angry at. Yeah, you're right. You're right.

And I just, it would just be nice if the hockey world owned this one a little bit more. And really just was more respective of the other sports leagues. Or some of their fan bases. Or the people that you want to play the game. I mean, they're going to China because they want to make Chinese hockey players. Those players won't be white, most likely. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, they're trying to make this sport bigger.

We all are. and have it be loved by more people because I do think it is a sport everyone can love but I just think that it's got a long way to go in a lot of ways but when you get to this big of an issue

you can't just sit it out and say we're apolitical and this doesn't matter that doesn't exist in this we need more Blake Wheelers and there were a few so that's why I don't want to totally overshadow but there's a few people that

listen to Blake's thing Is he the only hockey player that's really tweeted about this? I don't follow a lot of hockey players, to be honest, because they don't tweet much. A few have, like, because they don't have much to say, weirdly. People have been keeping a close eye on, like, retweets and likes and stuff like that. There's been a few players who have been caught, you know, favoriting or liking stuff related to Trump. But I think Braden Holtby or his family, something like that, has been seen basically approving the Warriors not going to the White House. There's been these little subtle things in terms of actually coming out and saying something themselves, I don't think.

Anyone really before Wheeler. And a bunch of the Jets. Winnipeg is the strange front lines of this movement in hockey. Pete Blackburn was like, oh, sure. The resistance is in Winnipeg. Well, but, you know, it's... It's got to start somewhere, man. It's part of the reason Matthews was asked, you know,

the bright future of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Well, he's an American. Blake Wheeler, I believe, is an American. Matt Hendricks was on Team USA at the World Championships. Jacob Truba, I think, is also American. All the Leafs Americans were asked. Connor Carrick as well. Oh, yeah, that's right.

JVR. What did they have to say? JVR, he was just, you know, he really defended the First Amendment. He talked a lot about that. You know what Conor Carrick said is that he thinks hockey hasn't confronted this head-on because hockey hasn't been challenged in the way other sports are, and that he himself is kind of in a contemplative mode about it. And I kind of got the sense he wasn't taking a pass because he is a super thoughtful guy

that he wanted to really be sure that he believed in what he said. He's not one to pass up an opportunity to talk. No, but he wasn't trying to get rid of the questions. He wasn't hoping that that answer— And it's okay to not be prepared for an answer. Well, and it's okay to not... Think about it. I guess we can't ask every person in the world

to take a huge stand on every issue. You know, I'm not blaming the Leafs' third-pairing right defenseman. You know what I mean? I am. Ken, you ought to be angry at everyone, Adam. I'm passionate. But I'm even willing to go so far as to say it's not just Gary Bettman's problem.

It's not just Crosby's. It's just that those people, if they really said something, would have the impact that I think we'd like to see. And I'd like to see... I just think, man, I hope some of this gets salvaged. I don't know where this is going next, though, even in the other sports. No one does. I'm not sure.

Is this Sunday in the NFL? Is it all gone? Did we forget about it? I mean, I know it won't go away. It finally bled into baseball. Is it going to recede a little bit? I saw Chris Archer, the pitcher for the Tampa Bay Rays, said that basically he was told by his teammates they didn't want him to do it.

They didn't want him to kneel or sit or whatever he was planning on doing. I mean, I don't think we've clearly heard the end of it, but is this going to keep growing? or is it just going to recede into the background? That's an unknown to me, but if it grows, man, I hope there's some people in the hockey world thinking twice. For the stick-to-sports crowd, take it up with Trump. He made it about sports.

That's your enemy. And let me say this, too. If you are a conservative, if you voted Trump, if you are a Republican, whatever, the issue is not with you or your ideology. The issue is with decency, straight up. And it's how we treat our fellow people, and I think we need to make sure that that is said,

because I know as I said to Chris on the way in I was like man I can't wait to talk about hockey with you but I sure as hell am not looking forward

to the follow up from this fucking subject I'm so tired of it and we still have to hit it still got to talk about it still got to give our opinion still got to do it I cannot wait

cannot wait till we move past this in a positive constructive and take a step forward as a society sort of way I don't know how long

that's going to take but I sure as hell do not like where it's going at the moment Jesse you got anything else I don't consider myself one of the smartest people Or the most knowledgeable about politics But I always side with

Team human race I'm always on the side of People and other humans Because life is hard And someone's trying to make life difficult For people and I'm not on that team I mean it's simple But I think the right way to put it

I'm cheering for team human race And I'm on team Jesse I feel bad for constantly being like and now we go to Jesse for his comments. It's a fair thing to do because I am a visible minority, so I definitely feel like I should say something. Yeah, well, three white guys going, here's what I think, you know, without asking you.

Well, I figured you should jump in. I mean, that just makes sense. I would shut you down if I didn't want to say anything. I'm not afraid to do that. Chris, thank you so much for making time for us today. Man, that went quick, and that was a long show. show yeah it was uh especially especially what you had to say about how you're thinking inwardly you you echoed a lot of the things that i've been struggling with for the last year year and a half

um and i i just want to say i appreciate you saying it because it was said in a way that i don't think i could have said it i just have not been able to articulate it in that way and in so many ways you're very good at that that's your strength is articulating things that i think people find complicated with hockey, and so thank you for saying what you said. Hockey isn't that complicated compared to the last half of this podcast. Yeah, that's true.

And I really appreciate the fact that you came on and made time for us and told us all that you told us about the Leafs, man. This is going to be, I think, a special and an exciting year. Who knows where this goes, but it should be a lot of fun. It's going to be an awesome season. I'm not just speaking to the Leafs,

but I'm legit pumped, and if we're being totally honest, because how can not at the end of that that was like open the vein and like not every season am i excited for just because sometimes the summer you feel isn't long enough or you don't maybe the storylines aren't getting you i mean you see line a score a couple goals last night matthew said a great night his goals mcdavid is just gonna like rule the league this year talk about best lines in the league that line they have in winnipeg it's a destroyer of worlds this is so exciting it should just be called the line i had i had one one like a little personal question for you though all right

On Thursday, I have my fantasy draft for my hockey. Just some sleeper picks I should be looking at. I have a better question. Is this cheating? Insider knowledge. So what counts as a sleeper? Someone who is certainly not like McDavid or Matthews or Nylander. It's a bidding draft, too, so you have like $200.

So who can I get on the cheap who's going to overperform? That is a dollar a bunch. I'm so bad at betting. Whose PDO is going to explode this year? A typical eight-goal scorer. Who do you think has a shot at 15 or 20? 20 would be nice. 20 would be nice.

Zach Hyman? He was the first name that came to mind, but I don't know. No, you can't be drafting Leafs, though, because I'm assuming it's mostly Toronto-based crowd. Yeah, they know it. Leafs are going to be overvalued. That's true. Last year, I think Komarov went the second round.

That's so stupid. Oh, tell me you're not in a league that values hits. Oh, yeah, hits is a stat. Matt Martin was on a team. I made a mistake years ago of valuing penalty minutes too high, and I think the first overall pick was Zenon Kanopka. Cody McLeod always gets picked up on the numbers. Well, okay.

So maybe someone along those lines. I'm going to have to give you someone. I'm not even punting on this. I just... Can you send me an email? Yes, I'm comfortable, and you guys can share it, too. I'm honestly not trying to avoid it. I just, my brain is not working right now on that.

All right, so we're going to get an email. Well, if the league is designed as you described, and he's not. So do goalies get heavily valued? I find goalies, like, tend to win you fantasy leagues. Yeah, because there's a strict goalie category, so goalies have their own four stats. I think it's wins, save percentage. Like, I would bet on, like, Scott Darling probably going a little higher

than people think. You know what I mean? Good defense. I think Carolina's going to be good, and I think he's good, but there's an unknown there. He's going to play a lot. I think Cam Ward's days are done. Steve Mason?

Maybe, but that's risky. Yeah. Well, I don't think he'll play high. You like living dangerously, though. You've been a Leafs fan all this time. I know. What about Antti Ranta? He'll play a lot.

He'll play a lot, and the Coyotes are stronger on defense. You can get them dirt cheap. You could probably sneak him in there. Well, I guess it's your bidding. He could be like your third goalie, though. Yeah, but you could have a team that's like an expensive goalie and then maybe a guy like Darling and then maybe a guy like Ranta. Yeah.

Be a pretty flushed out little lineup. I've got to be able to think of somebody that no one's really thinking about that's going to probably have a good year. While you're thinking, if the league is designed the way that you've described, he's not exactly a sleeper, but Dustin Bufflin would clean up. He's going to get a ton of points and he's going to get a ton of penalty minutes. No, he usually goes high every year. And especially with the crackdown, he's going to spend a lot of time in the box.

How does Martin Jones in San Jose? I mean, I don't know if they're as good. I don't know what they are this year. I don't know if they're going to be good. I mean, I think they're as good as Martin Jones. They're not going to be bad. Anyway, Chris, any thoughts? I'm dead.

You know what I would do? Pick up Josh Levo if he gets traded. There you go. That's what I would do. There we go. That's my guy. Good suggestion, Chris. That was sus.

You sounded a lot like Adam But no That was a really good one Chris it was a pleasure Having you on man And I hope we can have you On again soon I know that the next time

Will probably be over phone Because that's just The way it is That's fine Whatever I'll come in Huzzah That'd be great I'm not that busy

Oh no Just every show And every game And every radio show That wasn't even modesty I'm serious We could probably find a time Alright well we will again

We'll check up with you In a couple months And if you want to come in sooner You walk in here anytime Okay, so by then you're saying that's when Matthews and Nylander are 1-2 in league scoring and you guys can you imagine? I I've actually really whether it's this year another year I'm excited to see what happens when the Leafs are like Fully on their way and you guys are just gonna be like little giddy schoolchildren

Well, you already kind of are but but now it's like yeah now it now it feels like like it's Thursday and Friday's tomorrow. Don't get spoiled by it though. That's my one piece of advice Okay, I remember going to game three of that cap series and it was just so it was like I love it It was like a big civic celebration and I was thinking it will never be this good probably Because the expectations are gonna just make it be more dread filled or like I don't know remember the joy cuz it's it's still meant to be fun Remember that if they're in the second round they got to the effing second round Joe Bowen's voice like

He is a play-by-play guy has a lot of subtext to his voice and the subtext was HOLY SHIT THEY'RE LEADING THE SERIES NO WAY I NEVER THOUGHT IN A MILLION YEARS AND HERE THEY ARE and then game 4 happened alright we will be back Thursday

thank you so much Chris for coming on Leafs season starts next week isn't it? I'll be in Winnipeg next Wednesday oh my god line A Matthews our next show will be yeah because Matthews is better than line A You see, because it's proven

Won the Calder, end of debate, it's done Next week We'll, or sorry, next week, two days from now Will be our first Just the Three of Us show I think since July Yes, we do Sorry, Jesse So, hey, thanks so much, Chris

And we'll wrap it up later If you want to take it off No! Follow the guys on Twitter at Steve underscore Dangle at Adam W-Y-L-D-E and at Jesse Blake. The Steve Dangle Podcast.

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