The Steve Dangle Podcast - Dead Wings | January 21, 2020

Episode Date: January 22, 2020

On this episode of The Steve Dangle Podcast, the history of the hat-trick (00:00), who wore the crown?!? (10:30), fixing NHL All-Star weekend (21:00), changing the NHL point system (47:30), the terrible Detroit Red Wings (57:00), should the Leafs make moves at the deadline? (1:15:30), the potential deadline moves for the Leafs, Flames, and Oilers (1:31:30), and the press conference, the Blackhawks are fighting each other and McDavid "Whatever it Takes" (1:50:00). Originally aired: January 22, 2020 Watch the full episode here: https://youtu.be/XJ_w8tb_7uI Merch: https://teespring.com/en-GB/stores/fancydangleshirts Follow us on Twitter: @Steve_Dangle, @AdamWylde, & @JesseBlake Follow us on Instagram: @SteveDangle, @AdamWylde, & @Jesse.Blake Subscribe to us on iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/steve-dangle-podcast/id669828195?mt=2 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Panago Pizza presents S-S-D-P-P, the Steve Dangle Podcast, with your hosts, Steve Dangle, Adam Wilde, and Jesse Blake. Let's go! We start the show with breaking news. Breaking news. It's breaking news, and it's that I forgot to buy Jesse a pizza again, because I lost a bet a couple episodes ago, and I don't know what the bet was even about again. Oh, yeah, it was about the Pacific Division All-Star team and who would be the coach, and I thought it was going to be Gerard Gallant, and it should have been Gerard Gallant. It will not be.

It will be Dave Tippett. It shouldn't have been Gerard Gallant because that wouldn't have made any sense. Jesse, what's on the Bad Friend Pizza? On the Bad Friend Pizza is a history textbook. Oh, okay. A yellow Subaru Baja. Wow, it's a large pizza. A two-time dropout.

Whoa, okay, wow, wow, degenerate. And everything in between. Maybe a job in Barrie, doing local radio. Hey! All of those things come on the Adam Wilde bad friend pizza. All of those things are so boring. Do you look back on your hits in Barrie and go, I was good at that? No.

No. No, I was not good in Barrie. I was awful. It's a wonder I ever got out. like honestly like people not good at things when they immediately start them yeah it's crazy right well the thing was is that like i was there for 10 months and i still wasn't good took a long time uh two things i want to read one from uh alex leblanc hey man sorry uh for yelling uh to you from my work truck it was just at the street corner oh hey i couldn't hear what it was something

about alan mccauley apparently but i didn't understand apparently i had a rant about alan Macaulay. And the breaking news from Elliot Friedman, Akeem Alou has signed with H.G. Litvinov in the Czech Extra Liga. There are 14 games left in the season, although he will try to help them

make the playoffs. He leaves tomorrow and plays his first game on Friday. Wow. That's great. Interesting. Randomly, I also got one of those, that first message, I also got one of those. You got yelled at on the street? I got one from Troy Bell who DM'd me. He says, hey bud,

It's the dude who just yelled at you on the subway Sorry, I didn't mean to freak you out Just a fan of the podcast and wanted to say hi Saw the doors were closed We're closing quick Probably not the best choice of action to yell Give Nylander the crown Anyway, hope you have a good night

It's the subway in Toronto No one even looked up And I just thought you were funny, Troy Shout out to you I also want to throw this out there Hey bud, I'm the dude Is quite the arrangement of words And that, I believe

That marks an SDP listener from everybody else Hey bud, I'm the dude What a great Twitter handle Or dudette, doesn't really matter Hey bud, I'm the dude You can be the dude if you want You can be the man, go Becky Lynch style You're all the dudes

You're all the Budski dudeskis in our minds Now I do Steve, of all the things we've talked about In the last two weeks What has been the most contentious thing And we're doing this before we get to Crown Royal Right, I would say that's easily, at least

in terms of the, there's been a lot of stuff where people will immediately yell and go, no, I have an immediate opinion on that. But Jesse is the king, the king of saying something, and you can tell most people

are like, no, I'm not gonna, you know what, I want to go to bed tonight. Jesse, you're wrong about the hat tricks! And I'm gonna sleep on it, think about it, and then write you back No, you know what? We're still on that. It's it's definitely not worth my time, but on second thought I am done. I'm done with it, but everyone else is not here's the reason We're still on that because I received a DM from Coupe de Tete

Bespoke hat and leather good maker Here in Canada with by the way 15,000 followers on Instagram because their hats are cool as hell wait This is a company. Yes, you know those goofy goofy ass fedoras that people wear they make the good-looking ones Oh right, and they make actual like you know like it like amazing amazing like it's art right. It's beautiful Hey, that's a hat that Pharrell Williams would wear that hat. Uh yeah, wouldn't be as good Pharrell Williams hat was still goofy I'm sorry I think it stunk anyway. Here's what Coop had to write to me And it had to do with the hat trick his name's Jay

Backstory here obviously passionate about hats. I am it yes, and that is why it's so interesting. We're talking about the hat trick Oh, full circle. Welcome to your history lesson today. Backstory here, I'm a Toronto hat maker and a history buff. The process of hat making hasn't really changed much in the last hundred years. So to find out how to make hats when I was starting off, I found myself reading old articles and books from eras when hats were worked on by almost everyone. Sorry, excuse me, were worn by almost everyone.

This is when I first heard of Sammy Taft, a Toronto hatter. A hatter. Here is his story from my research. Was he mad? He was not mad. Okay. He grew up on Spadina Avenue. Growing up on Spadina Avenue, which is why you see a bunch of, if you come to Toronto,

you'll see a bunch of big old buildings on Spadina. That's because that's where all the garment district was. That's where all your clothes were made, your shoes, your hats, everything was all made on that one street. That's where Minona worked. Oh, yeah? She put food on the table by working in the garment district and fighting off all her co-workers for material.

Wow. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Really cool stuff. So growing up on Spadina Avenue, Taff discovered a gift for the gab while working as a tie salesman. He was barely out of his teens when he opened his store during the early days of the Great Depression. So we're talking early 30s here.

One day, this man walked in and he said, why don't you sell hats? He told the star in a 1981 interview. I told him I was desperate. I could sell anything, but I didn't have any money. The gimmick was he'd give me a start and I'd either have hats in the store or his money would be in the bank. When the man returned a month later, all but two of the hats had sold. The legend goes that the Chicago Blackhawks A left winger named Alex Coletta

Wandered into Taft's store while visiting Toronto in January 1946 Alex Coletta, I don't believe any relation to Patrick Coletta No And Alex Coletta made the original six, Patrick Coletta could not A fedora caught his eye But he didn't have enough money to pay for it So thinking of the promotional This NHL player doesn't have enough money to pay for a hat

Yeah, this is the year after World War II. Actually, World War II is wrapped up six months ago at this point. But are you still on the fence about unions? I don't know. Man, the unions are nothing for the NHL. I don't know. They seem sort of uppity. Yeah.

I don't know. Them and their asks. Yeah. Stupid. Let's go back to the days when people couldn't buy hats. That's right. Professional athletes could not buy a hat. A fedora caught his eye.

He didn't have enough money to pay for it. Thinking of the promotional possibilities, Taft made an offer. If Coletta scored three goals against the Maple Leafs that night, the hat was his. Are you joking me? Three. Oh. Coletta went... Hold on.

This is where it's good. Coletta went one better. Though the Blackhawks lost 6-5 to the home team on January 26, 1946, he scored all but one of Chicago's goals. Taft claimed he heard of Coletta's accomplishment and referred to it as a hat-trick on the radio. Taft went on to offer any

player that scored three goals in Maple Leaf Gardens a free hat, and the story grew from there. So, to Steve's argument that four goals should be called something else, the first hat-trick in hockey was awarded to a... Sorry, to Jesse's, I'm assuming. To Jesse's argument that somebody who scores four

goals, the first hat-trick in hockey was awarded to a player who scored four goals in a game. And side note, we have taken up the mantle of making John Tavares a free hat to mark his first hat trick as a Leaf. We're going to make a free custom hat to any Leaf who scores a hat trick this season. We're off to the game tonight,

sizing up Matthews, our town, our crown. Let's go. Free hat, free hat, free hat. Pretty cool, right? Wow, that's an incredible story. Isn't that great? Wow. The hat trick started in Toronto.

Wow. And has crossed over to all sports, but started here. Wow. That's... Wow. Great story, huh? That's unbelievable. See, the Leafs getting lit up just adds to history.

That's right. So, Coop underscore Day underscore Tet, T-E-T-E. You can follow them for some pretty amazing hats, and also a great history lesson. So, when you score three goals in soccer, it's also called a hat trick, right? So, did this... I think that migrated to Europe. Wow. Yeah.

From Toronto's Garmin district. Yeah, what's that? It all started on Spadina in Toronto. Yeah. Yeah. Because a Blackhawks player made, like, four grand or something like that. Maybe. He couldn't buy a hat.

He probably had to buy his own bus ticket to the game in Toronto back then, because the Blackhawks' ownership was brutal. They were just as bad as the Leafs. Cheap, cheap, cheap. He just went door-to-door. Like, is this the arena? No. He almost missed the game.

Spadina, you're not that far. No. Just keep going east. Exactly. Poor guy. Anyway, pretty neat. All right. And so now you know, Jesse.

Now I know. Three goals is a hat trick. And so is four. Now imagine the difference in the story. Hey, I scored four goals last night. Where's my hat? And the guy goes, hey, give me that hat back. The agreement was pretty ironclad.

You score three goals. You get the hat. Second you put it to fourth, it's like you spat on it. No hat for you. And then he kicked him out of the score. I don't think he should have gotten a hat. I think you're right. He scored more than three.

I think he should have worked harder. Shouldn't he have? Should have. I mean, if he wanted enough money to get the hat, he should have played more games. Somehow. Should have scored three goals is what he should have done. That's what he should have done. Yeah, worked harder to score less.

Let's get into Who Wore the Crown. As you know, living generously, life will treat you royally. And why not point yourself and a friend a crown royal because today we're going to talk about who wore the crown Where we with the help of you recognize one leaf player who gives it all for the blue and white It's our town. It's our crown. It's not what you have, but what you have to give We're going to crown a leaf that lives generously, but this one's going to be a little bit different It's brought to you by our friends at crown royal live generously and life will treat you royally. We will get into it. However However, however

Why not? We have not had a leaf game since our previous show. So what are we to do? So I think we're going to do the all-star break thing. I think we're going to do the all-star break ask. It's the bye week. And by the way, I didn't know they had been syncing up all the bye weeks, basically. Is that what they've done? Yeah, they did a – the first week they had bye weeks, it was like – it was a clear advantage for the team that had been playing versus the team that had been resting. So now it's not as pronounced.

I want to say it was like a full week's difference. and now it's not so much. I think the Leafs and a bunch of other teams get a few days off before the All-Star break, and I think a few teams get a little bit of time off after. Okay. I don't think it's a full week. I like that a lot better.

It's five days. Yeah, there you go. Better. Yeah. Much better. It was a nice idea in theory. It just wasn't executed properly. Yeah, it's like so many things.

Right. Here's a great idea, and then you do it. No. Well, that didn't work. It's back to the drawing board with that, and then they figured it out. I feel like what they should do is just, Link, why wouldn't you just sync it all up? Everybody's off at the same time. Like, why do before and after?

I think it's too much to take a week off a season in the middle of the season. Well, they're doing almost that with the All-Star Game every year. But they could take a couple weeks off and go to the Olympics. That's just my thing. No, we need to make the heart of every decision we make cater to people who could take or leave the sport. Yes. the whole sport needs to revolve around people who don't give a shit about it

who watch a game a year please watch us now I'm going to ask you guys for your honest assessment of who you'd give the crown to through 49 games this season I know we kind of did this at Christmas

but there's been a bit there's been a lot that's changed since Christmas to be honest it's been pretty up and down it was like you know they were 15 15 and 5 in 20 games, and now they're what are they? Out of a playoff spot? Out of a playoff spot. The Panthers won again yesterday. Yeah, so it's

I think the answers could have changed. Who would you give yours to? So this is from Christmas. Since Christmas or on the whole season? Well, I guess we could do since Christmas. Yeah, you know what? That's even better. Since the bad spell started, who would you give your crown to? Well, since the bad spell started. Yeah, so like Christmas is basically

where the good times sort of ended. Where would you give it? hmm it's really tough you know what because even during their streak the Leafs should have lost at least a few of those games and the reason they didn't and this is a player that's been criticized he's been criticized on the streak he's been criticized all season long and yet we're talking about this guy might score a record-breaking amount of goals for this team This guy might win individual hardware for this team. It's got to be Austin Matthews, right?

They shouldn't have got a point against the Rangers. He willed them to a point. They shouldn't have gotten a single point against Carolina, and they got two. And there was another, the Jets. Shouldn't have got anything against the Jets. And he ties it with 13 or 12 seconds left. So I got to give it to Austin Matthews because even when the team's been struggling, He's been finding a way to will them through.

Where would this team be in the standings without those three or four points that I just mentioned? All of a sudden, it's a lot more bleak. Yeah, it would not be great. It would be less great. If it's not great, it would be less great. It would be less great, certainly. More bad. More not as bad.

That's right. Something like that. I think this is a perfect time to go to you, Adam. Well, I'm going to say, for me, I'm actually going to defer to Jesse because I'm going to give my I'm going to give my crown to the same person he is and so

I do know that I'm going to guess that my crown will sync up with Jesse's and there's a reason why but I want Jesse to do this because Jesse even though he picks it's still funny in our timeline I was reading some of our comments last episode and someone's like

has anyone noticed that Jesse keeps picking Nylander in the crown now? It's the strangest thing When he deserves it, I give it to him. Okay, and so, Jesse, does he deserve it now? Well, today I learned that four goals can indeed be a hat trick because the first ever hat trick was given to four goals. Whoa.

So I can change. Now that I have a new opinion on hat tricks, maybe I have a new opinion on crowns. I'm going to read a little piece from John Tavares. Okay. He was interviewed by Luke Fox. Drew Fox. Fantastic article.

It's called Q&A with JT. He said, he's very competitive. He's knowledgeable in the game. To me, he's still growing and learning and continuing to find how he can be better. I think he's very driven. He wants to be a great player and make a difference every night and be counted on and help this team be successful. Wow. Now, who could that mean?

He's talking about William Nylander. And I think that's the best way to describe Nylander. He's clearly trying to get better after his down season last season. I actually thought it might be someone different. I'm so stupid. Oh, man, that's great. He's clearly trying to get better after his down season last year. And I think you were naming off all of those moments that Austin Matthews saved points for the Leafs.

Big ones. I think you'd say the same thing about Willie. That Calgary game, only one to score. He tried to keep him in the Blackhawks game. Didn't work. Desperately. He scored the overtime winner against the Devils because one of the Devils scored on their own. Because it went off of his foot.

Yeah. But still. But he's scary intimidated him into it. What is his, how many goals is he sitting at right now? 21? So he had 22 goals. 22? Hmm.

He's almost a point a game player. 43 points in 49 games played. I just think he's been such a bright spot this year. How can you not give him to a halfway point? No, he really has. I don't know if he counted as the biggest surprise because he's been paid $6.9 million, so you can't really be a surprise when you're... I think you can be a surprise.

But you can't because... I think the way people counted him out, I think he is. Exactly. The way people counted William Nylander out and the way the media continued to try to downplay who he is. As recently as this past week. Right? And then you show up this year.

I just saw a tweet. I can't remember who it was. They're like, I just turned on the radio and they're talking about trading William Nylander. Oh my God. Oh, gosh. And he showed up this year and just consistently, almost a point a game, he scored 22 goals, halfway point. He's got to get the crown.

With no disrespect to Brian Burke, because I do thoroughly enjoy him as a broadcaster, I am so eternally grateful he no longer runs the Toronto Maple Leafs. And I mean that, and I would tell him that. He's traded William Nylander so many times. Darren Drager has too. TSN made it their mission in William Nylander's first full year to trade him. I don't know what it was.

there was just this... I remember Darren Drager tweeting about if the Leafs had signed Jimmy Vesey, Nylander would already not be a Leaf. Do you remember that tweet? That was a take! Imagine how that would have gone down in history. Right now, the Leafs had Jimmy Vesey and Nylander

somewhere else put up 30 goals in a year. Come on! You know, third and a half liner, he's like that middle between third and fourth line Vesey. He's not great. He's a player. He plays

in the league. He exists. He's not a guy who's on your top line every night. No. Yes, exactly. No, he is not. Here's where Vesey finished that year when Traeger tweeted that. That was Vesey's first full year in the NHL with the New York

Rangers. He had 27 points. Oh, I was like, goals? Points. 27 points. William Nylander, that same year. I'm just having a look here. 61. He had 61 points.

So, but don't worry, Vesey caught up the next year with 28 points. Oh, boy. And then last year at 35 and has 14 this year in 45 games. Hey, that's, I'm trying to math that. Oh, boy. Yeah, see what I'm saying? Yeah, it wouldn't have gone well. But as for, okay, the only minorly acceptable way to talk about a William Nylander trade.

It's a sliver Because we've talked about Janssen We've talked about Kapanen, we've talked about Bracco And it's unanimous None of that is enough To get you a Throw a name out there, Alex Petrangelo Right? None of it is good enough

To get you a player of that Quality, a top two Right handed D Right So why not, why not Try for William Nylander since he has higher value No team is making that trade No team

There's a reason they're so hard to find They're rare They're rare And I'm not saying William Nylander's skill set is common But it's easier to find It's easier to find a player who can do what he does Than a Certified top two

Right handed D I would also trade Nylander for Connor McDavid That's a fair trade Wow And that's, that's, that's Nylander's like biggest supporter. You would make that trade. I would, a hundred percent. If they offered McDavid for Nylander, I would do it. It would address the Oilers' wing issues on depth. It sure would, and if there's anything good teams do, it's take away from a strength to address a weakness.

That's right. Jesse, would you trade for, would you trade William Nylander for Conor McDavid with his PCL snapped in half? Is that what happened? Depends on if he wants to run in a pool a lot to rehab it or take surgery. Right. Right. Well. Depends.

Very good point. Depending on that answer, then we'll see. Mm-hmm. All right. Fair enough. Right. Adam, have you said yours yet? It is William Nylander.

And the reason I say that is he seems to be the guy playing most consistent right now. Now, I feel like an idiot. Can I change mine? No, I think you made a good point, too. Beer angle. I think there can be more than one. And that is why we like to live life generously and hand out crowns royally. Yes.

Get it? Yeah, I get it. Live life generously, and life will treat you royally. Why not put yourself in front of Crown Royal? Why not? And that is Who Wore the Crown for this week, brought to you by Crown Royal. Next time the puck drops, why not live generously and treat your Leafs crew? You said it again.

Crown Royal to old-fashioned. Who cares? You say it again. No, I get it. Why not? Thank you. We will not have one again until after the All-Star game, because this is our last show until next Monday, after Steve is back.

And I'm going to guarantee you something. Before you get it, I know you've got a point to make. It's not a point. It's a question. Okay. Before you get into the question, I can guarantee you that Steve walks in next Monday and goes, Oh, I'm so tired. I can just guarantee it.

Because here's the thing. Steve's got layovers, Jesse, on that Sunday. Layovers. Are we recording? We're recording Monday. Yeah. So you're not going to be back in time to do a Sunday afternoon show. No.

Because I have a layover. He's going to be so tired. Where's your layover? North Carolina. So he's got to go fly south first and then fly north. He's flying Missouri to Carolina to Toronto. Because there's an international hub there. I'm surprised they didn't put you through Chicago.

I don't know. Or even Minnesota. Because you're already going to the other time zone, right? So you might as well go to Chicago. Because there's several international hubs when you fly around enough that you fly through. O'Hare is one of them. I forget what the Minneapolis-St. Paul airport is. And I forget what the North Carolina one is.

but you fly through those to get everywhere, basically. And it's two and a half hours. So it's like, it's just long enough that you can't really leave and do anything, but it's so long that it's a shitty amount of time to be in an airport. It's great. It's cool. So you're going, so you only have Leora when you're coming back. No, I have both.

Oh, everyone there. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to be with Sportsnet, though. You're going to have a bunch of people with you. I'll be with Producer Drew, which to some of you means nobody. I'll be with someone who doesn't exist. A lot of people don't think Producer Drew exists, but he apparently is the guy you do the dang-its with.

Yes, and hat pics. I've never seen him. Well, he's tall and handsome. Okay, sure. Did you do dang-its today? No, we're either going to have to do them from St. Louis or not do them this week. Do them from St. Louis. Problem is we have a 10-hour day on Thursday.

Oh, wow. Jesse's going to be so tired. All right. You sound like you contracted tuberculosis every time you walk in here, Arthur Morgan. sounding ass. Here's the thing, Jesse, what time is it right now? It's 3 o'clock, right? It is. Time to wake up this morning? I woke up at 3.50.

Oh, okay. Time of year at work? I get to work for 5. Right. So it's a 10-hour day for you. Well, I got a break in between. Yeah. A couple hours. You guys are the worst friends. You don't get him a pizza? I didn't get him a pizza. You lambaste me? Lambaste?

Is it lambaste or lambast? I don't know. Is it lambast? I've heard it both ways, and they're both weird. Is one a present tense and one a past tense? And is it lamb? Are you basting a lamb? Yes. Is that what it is?

You're literally dunking a lamb. You got Portuguese neighbors? Yeah. I don't. Do you? Or no, it was Macedonian. I had Macedonian neighbors that ate a lamb once. It was very nice.

Can our next crown be for the All-Star game? Sure, yeah. We'll pick an All-Star. Who looked like they tried? Right. Oh, man. I'm giving it to someone in the skills comp. Oh, yeah, probably.

I'm excited because it sounds like it might actually be fun. I think it is going to be fun. But we've talked about this a lot. The All-Star game, I've bitched and whined and complained about it for a long time. But I think it's great for the local market. It's great for where it is. They're great to be at. If it was in Toronto, if it's in New York, if it's in Pittsburgh, wherever it is, it's great for that city.

The NHL is very good at putting on events for that market. All outdoor games are great. We always settle on that. We always settle on the outdoor games. The all-star games are great for the city. It just sucks everywhere else. It kind of does not translate on TV as much. You don't get the energy.

I think part of that has to do with the broadcast crews, to be honest with you. I don't think that they capture a lot of the energy and the fun and the party. I know I'm going to piss some people off that we know, But I think that I don't think they do enough to really capture what All-Star Weekend's about. And I think if you watch, you only have to watch the NBA one to understand where the NHL needs to go with this and where broadcasters need to go with this. The NBA one is like, it's like rock stars. It is just a different level. Now, I understand that the NHL doesn't have a grip on pop culture right now the way the NBA does.

The NBA is pop culture. It's mainstream culture. But still in the early 2000s. It was all, it's all always just about the flash and the flare. Yes. You know, they always just focus on, Hey, this is just going to be a special thing outside of sports. We're just going to do something that's flashy and we're going to have celebrities and we're

just, everybody's going to showcase their skills. It's never about like, let's actually have a product. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And it's never about the game. It's always about everything around the game, except the game. And on, on that and going back to something we were talking about earlier, the, the skills,

Whatever the hell they're planning on doing In the stands Like that to me is such a good idea But we'll see if it's a good idea in practice Right? Because that sounds to me like the sort of thing That can be cumbersome And take too long and suck

Or it can be really fun I don't know, is it like What if I don't know, one of the players doing it just hands their stick To a fan in the stands It's great, they should And they just, I don't know, they fling a puck in it Hit someone in the third row.

Can I take a guess? Sure. Sure. The NHL is going to screw up this people going into the stands. Yeah? Oh, no. Oh, no. I don't see how they're going to do this.

Oh, no, we forgot to provide skate guards. No one thought of it. Just trying to control. I hope that they figured out that they'll have to do an event in between. So while the guys are going to position there, they'll have to do an event in between those guys that's setting up. So whatever it is you're going to do, if that's going to be one of the marquee events, do what— I don't even know what the events are anymore, to be honest with you.

But, like, do something while those guys are moving there. Please don't have a camera following them while we're waiting for something. Like, you can cut to them and that sort of thing. But don't make it all about the walk-up, the first concourse up to— Because that will be boring. I don't— Yeah. Because I was watching—

You see any of the clips from the KHL Ulster game? Yeah, it's been fun. It was fun. I mean, I didn't like the goalie shootout thing. I know that was kind of stupid, and nothing really happened, but I think if you're there, it might be fun. The only thing about it, like, yes, there needs to be fun moments, but part of me was just like, oh, so you're just doing this for, like, the gifts. Yeah. Which you should.

That's what they should be aiming for. I guess that is what they should be aiming for, like the coach eating the board. Did you see that one? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I saw the dollar bill flip. I haven't seen that. Instead of flipping a coin, they took, like, a paper bill.

I don't know how much it was, but, like, say you take a 50. Like a ruble? And then they tried to flip the 50 and it landed on the side, like on the ice, so that it was nothing. Did it? It didn't land on head or tail. Oh, I haven't seen that. It's incredible.

But like, that's what the All-Star Game should give you. Just a gif-able moment. They did have a position player play goalie, which is something I've always wanted to see in the NHL. I'm dying to find out who can actually do it. And didn't he win in overtime or in a shootout? He made a, like, who knows how hard the shooter was trying, but it was Linus Omar. the the former oiler who you know famous for his flashy shootout moves and and everything like that

uh yeah but like the save looked really nice it i don't know i'd i'd kill to see something like that and or just it'd be funny like what if you know you're in the stands and oh oh you know you fake an injury oh my back i i can't take the shot is someone could someone around and like Wayne Gretzky stands up, and he takes the stick and does it. That'd be amazing. Or like, Yager comes out from nowhere. Yeah.

Matthew Kachuk. It's another all-star appearance for Yager. Matthew Kachuk is like, Oh, no, I can't do it. I have a stomach ache. Oh, okay, that's a better one. I was going to suggest Zach Kass. No.

I don't think that's going to happen. Yeah, his dad. That'd be awesome. Yeah. That'd be awesome. They could have, and it looks like they're open to having a little bit more fun with it, which is cool.

It just got so stale there for a few years until the John Scott stuff happened. And even then, the John Scott stuff only happened because it was so stale. It was a pushback. It was a pushback. It was fans rebelling. And the year before, that was Columbus, I think, and the Kessel versus Sagan race, which was the first event and the peak. Yes. Okay.

It was the peak for, I think, everyone else. The local peak, the in-arena peak, was Ryan Johansson, who was still with the Blue Jackets at the time. Taken off his jersey and having the whatever the college football team is Buckeyes, yeah. Oh see like yeah, you guys are like oh, yeah Yeah, and the other one was that they pretended Johnny Gaudreau was a kid. No you were telling a great story though super No, this is what I'm saying though. It sucks Locally locally that sounds amazing. Oh the crowd Oh that's our football team!

They play here! They play here! But everyone else is just like The Buckeyes aren't a team they're a religion Oh, yeah? Yeah, they're a pretty big deal. I'll never understand that. Well, you won't understand it unless you grew up there, but I think you have to compare it to how you grew up watching the Leafs.

No, I mean, I'll never understand high school and college football. Oh, yeah. I feel like that's the way it should be. Like, wouldn't it be better? I feel like it'd be better if we were passionate about our school teams. Oh, it would be amazing. It would just be nice if they paid them. Well, there's that.

So I have a moral dilemma with that, but I still think they should pay them, but especially football. Football where you have a shelf life of about three years and you're destroyed. We got this thing at your locker where your hologram comes out and shakes your hand and makes you pancakes but no. Somebody gave him a hundred bucks once and now he's going to be

suspended for the year. You took free shoes? One second. One second. How about we strip your entire education? That's right. Yeah, there's a lot. And well, and I think, too, like there's there's yeah, there's a lot to be said for university sports. And I think the CIS is doing a much better job than they used to.

Yes. Finally, you can see the games on TV and the CIS is our NCAA for anybody who doesn't know that. I think it would be great if Canadian universities just joined in or had some sort of involvement in the NCAA if the NCAA wasn't so problematic, because it would be really great to have the entire, you know, like North America. and then you've got Canadian schools competing against American schools, and that would inevitably bring the Canadian programs up. Yeah, well, and now there's more universities in the GTA for, like, ex-OHL players to play at. For example, like, I don't even, is the U of T team a thing?

But now that Ryerson's finally got Maple Leaf Gardens, like, they have an arena that's exciting that people can play at, and also UOIT has a team, and I know some former OHL players play there and stuff. Yeah, but I just don't understand how rabid it is. Even the most hardcore Jens fans or any junior hockey team's fans, you're not even casual high school football fans. I think that's America, though, versus Canada. I think we're a lot more, and forgive the term,

but a lot more of that Protestant, like, no, everybody sit down and shut up and I'm enjoying this game, don't stand up and get in my way. It's like it's like if you ever watch, you know, you want to see the difference between North America and Europe Watch live aid from 1985 you watch those so you watch you watch the you know some of the biggest bands in the world they started in in North America, I believe and So they have shouldn't they be doing it the opposite way? I don't even I don't know it doesn't matter Okay, so anyway, they have these bands and they're coming out and you know, the audience is like yay

Hooray! And then you see the queen performance. You see Mick Jagger, and you see Keith Richards and Ronnie Wood, and you see Tina Turner, and like in Europe, and the crowd is literally a wave of people. They're insane. And it's just, there's a, so there's European sports fans that I know about. They're nuts. There's American sports fans about football.

They're nuts. And then Canadians are just like, well, we're just going to sit here and enjoy and clap nicely. Yep. And apparently, I was reading, when I was reading the Motley Crue book, they talk about how when they used to go to Japan, the belief was that, the cultural thing there at the time, and I don't know if this is still the case, was that you didn't say anything during the song because you were supposed to listen to the song. So they'd be playing the music, nobody would be saying anything. You could hear a pin drop, and then the eruption would happen after the song. That was great! Yes.

But they were not, so you imagine, right? They try to get people to sing along and they're like Dr. Feelgood and they're like trying to put the mic out and everybody's like

no no no please sing it we don't want to get in your way. He's the one that called doctor he's the one that makes you feel

and then afterward he's like oh man these guys hit a yeah! So anyway wild it's just

it's different cultures right? It's different kind of ways of handling games. Also I think at the top of the list of most fanatic

sports fans South American soccer fans. Oh! They have literal fences that have to be put up so people don't catch people on fire. The ref is missing. Literally. Yes.

No. I remember growing up, there was a defender that accidentally scored an own goal, and he died the next day. He was assassinated. The South American fans are crazy. The worst I've heard of, who was the CFL, wasn't it a Rough Riders kicker? He missed a field goal And I shouldn't be laughing

But because it's Saskatchewan And there's just tons of pissed off farmers When I guess the football team loses They dump manure on his lawn That wasn't that long ago It was within the last 10 years That's shitty Hey we'll be back after the all star break

That's the end of it Speaking of all star break I hope Because last year the thing that I remember most like when I'm like oh 2019 All-Star game what do you guys think of? I

nothing I couldn't tell you who won a single game I couldn't tell you who won a single event what I remember is Kendall Coyne oh

winning the fastest all that yeah sorry we only talked about that for a month and not being really timed and then everybody trying to get her the money

and all that stuff so I hope like this year they just make everything right and there's no I think they got it now you don't remember a controversy out of an All-Star game

like that was that was so depressing Well, and when, wasn't part of the controversy that not all of it was televised? Yeah, so her lap wasn't on broadcast or something like that. Which is ridiculous. She just did the test run or something like that. And it wasn't officially timed, but people timed it in the arena, and then it was a whole mess. Okay.

Yeah, I remember that. And that's a broadcast lesson learned, though. Right. Like, I mean, maybe they just didn't expect her to smoke everybody. To win it. And, yeah, win it, but apparently not win it, but did win it. And, yeah, depends whose friggin' phone you go by. Well, maybe react on the fly, too.

Like, if she won it, you know that night. Like, the NHL head office knew that night. They could have taken that ball and run with it, and they didn't. That's their biggest problem, too, is they just, I don't think that they're in touch with what the average fan wants. And they miss huge promotional opportunities out of their own obstinacy. It's like they do, they, what was the, there's a Winston Churchill quote about America that I think applies here. He said, America, America will do the right thing after it's exhausted every other opportunity

not to do the right thing. That's a Winston Churchill? That's a paraphrase, but that's essentially what he was saying. And then he said, build a long road in Mississauga after me. Yeah. And they did. Winston Churchill. That was with his dying breath.

Yeah. Everything he's done. Mississauga. With a very long road. That goes from Lakeshore all the way up to Steeles. Please, and thank you. And I want it in an area of the greater Toronto region where everything is five or six lanes wide

and no one moves. Not a single person. You're like, look at all these lanes, it'll be fine. And it never is. No, it never is. Never. Because it's a proven fact that adding more lanes to a highway does not take care of traffic.

You need public transit. It just doesn't mathematically work. Oh, well, Toronto's in great shape, though. Oh, no, for sure. And now, so here's the thing. Just kidding. We're fucked. Anyway, what I mean by that, and why I mean bringing up that paraphrasing of a very famous Winston Churchill quote,

is that the NHL seems to do that, too. Against, the NHL will do the right thing kicking and screaming. Like, what do you mean we have to donate to charity? What do you mean we have to give Kendall Coyne a thing? What do you mean we have to allow a player who was voted on to show up? Yeah Exactly. But not before we demote him to a lower level. Right, get him traded, demote him to a lower level, call him and say I don't think your daughters are gonna be proud of you. Yeah, not not before there's like literally a conspiracy to trade him, allegedly

Allegedly, we don't know that, you know, just maybe That's why it's a conspiracy, you don't have to say allegedly, it's a conspiracy. Yeah, that's true Tinfoil hat, Infowars sticker All that shit John Scott and black helicopters Yeah I think it's

I have faith in this one It feels like it's going to be fun I think you also added a bit of excitement Because you're going to be there For sure I'm a bad traveler Like I said, I hate going to the gym I like being at it

This plane is going too fast No, too slow. It's always too slow. Oh, okay. Well, on the highway, you're too slow. I'm always like, how long have we been in the air? Oh, seven minutes. I love planes.

You're a bad traveler. You're a bad commuter. You're a bad driver. Those are all the same thing. Yeah. Exactly. When I was over at Steve's house on Saturday, his lovely wife, who I haven't seen in forever. It was just so nice to hang out.

We were talking about something last week where you came home and you were grumpy because because the commute had been bad, and she's like, he's just such a piss baby sometimes. No, so I got home from that, and it was like I hadn't even taken my coat off, and the Panthers scored, and then the Panthers scored,

and then the Panthers scored. Yeah, that's what it was. It was that night. I was like, just fuck everything. It should not take an hour and a half to get... Anyway. I read a book recently called The Four Agreements, and one of The Four Agreements...

By the way, highly... Where do you get these books? I highly recommend it. The library? I read all the time. iTunes. Yeah, iTunes. Why don't you just read my book over and over again?

Because it's not Harry Potter. I'm kidding. No, it's a great book. But what I'm saying is the four agreements, one of them is take nothing personally. That means negatively or positively. So if somebody says something terrible to you, they're trying to send you poison. Don't take it personally. If someone says something positive to you, they're trying to send something good.

But again, what people say about you has nothing to do with you. Is there a Twitter logo on the front cover of this book? No, but the reason I say this is that Steve, what I realized when I was over at his house on Saturday night against the Blackhawks, is Steve takes every Leaf goal against personally. Like, it's a personal insult. Whenever someone blows coverage, I'm like, you fucking, you just spat in my face. You did that to me on purpose, Martin Marincin, you immature hick. What does he have against me?

What does he have against me, Martin Marincin? Steve Dubas is employing Cody CeCe right now because he's mad at Steve for something that he said in one of his videos. I'm sure of it. He, oh, listen, and did you see that he's starting to transition away from the glasses? Because I wear those glasses now. Oh. And until they're in a playoff spot, he doesn't freaking deserve them. So he got one and got LASIK.

He better have. Wow. Are you going to go back on your promise to never go to a Leaf game? If CeCe's involved. That was not the promise. Okay. The promise was, if the Leafs re-sign Cody Ceci, I will not go to another Leaf game, asterisk, unless I'm paid. Okay.

Because that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. What if they re-sign him for like 700 grand? No. Alright, alright. If that's the best, if that's the best, okay, so, got in hot water at the beginning of the season for criticizing the Oilers for, That's the best group of wingers you could surround McDavid and Dreisaitl with. Like, for real? For real.

That's the best group you could do. None of them were necessarily bad, but it's just that's the best group you had. If Cody Ceci is the best right-handed shot defenseman available, and they sign him, and people go, well, it was the best option available. They didn't do their damn job! I'm sure you could get a better right-handed option at the KHL, or even Liga. Yes! I think you could.

Just need someone who can skate and pass a puck. Yes. Backwards crossovers and shit. What's Callie Rosen doing after this year? I'm sure you could get him back. There's one. Yeah, you know what I mean? So, anyway, I wanted to, because there wasn't a lot of games.

By the way, Kadri scored his 17th goal last night. He has more goals now with the Avs than he did with the Leafs the entire last season. So, just throwing that out there. What? Yeah. He didn't have a lot of goals last year. He didn't have a good season. He scored 28 goals last year?

No. No, he... No way! He had trouble finding even strength ice time, and he... As I remember... You know, it's funny that he had trouble finding even strength ice time, because it was clearly available, it's just that Mike Babcock chose not to play him. Well, there was that.

And also, the power play wasn't very good, if I remember, and the power play goals they did score, he had nothing to do with. Like, he would never pick up an assist. He, I don't know, Tavares scored so many fucking goals at the front of the net that they never needed the bumper. It was 47 for Tavares? Yeah, and he was always the net front guy and Kadri was the slot guy. But that just, that slipped my Leaf history completely. I didn't realize it was that bad.

I thought he had 32 goals. He had fewer goals than Kapanen? He did. Now, if you look at, so here's last year's stat line, you ready? 73 games, 16 goals, 28 assists, 44 points. Respectable. How many points? 44.

Man. All right. Third line center. Third line center, respectable, yeah. Yeah. That's what Kerfoot would get. And so what Kadri was being paid, like going into last season, we would have said, well, that's one of the better deals in the NHL.

But based on what he was paid last year, that's about what you would expect, right? Now imagine. 34 points is what you expect. Now hang on. Okay. Hang on. Okay. This year, at $4.5 million, I believe is what he's making.

Yep. 46 games, 17 goals, 14 assists, 31 points already. So if he gets Let's say you double that minus a few You're talking just less than 60 points And his career high is 61 So he is going to be right up there With one of the best seasons he's ever had

Now with the Avs And just throwing this out there too He had 43 penalty minutes last year He already has 89 this year But I believe there's a misconduct in there He beat the shit out of someone For hitting He stuck up for a teammate in a fight

I can't remember who it was It was December, yeah. Yeah, it was against the Rangers. And there was one recently, too, where he beat the pulp out of somebody. Lindgren, something Lindgren. Yeah. I forget. There's a lot of Linds.

Lindholm, Lindgren. There sure is. It's trendy. The Leafs have one in their system. They have a Jesper Lindgren. There you go. Nope, nope, they don't. I think that's the Ranger guy.

I don't know. Anyway, imagine, Adam, and you brought this up, and now I'm going to make it real. Uh-oh. Hyman, Tavares, Marner. That's the Leafs' top line last year. Mm-hmm. Nylander Matthews

Kadri would have been great they never even tried it nope they never even tried it why try it

when you can Babcock why not oh my god why never even tried it and then you have center

but you give him no help you only give him Janssen and Kapanen oh no oh fuck um Sean Mathias

actually wrote an article on the coaches that he played under, best to worst, for DeanBlundell.com. He would have had... He did? He would have had... I know, I was like, oh, I didn't know that they were working together. But anyway... He would have had Babcock the 15-16.

Yes, yeah. And he said Bab's biggest problem is his ego. He's got an enormous ego. And he said the sports psychology thing, which Babcock has, he's got a degree in that, he said you'd think that would be helpful, but it's probably one of the least helpful things. He said it was very, very difficult.

he's like you they they basically they used to go to the steam room to get away from him because you know like sometimes the guys go eat in the lunchroom and the coach sort of leaves them alone so they can have some time to talk and hang yeah babs wouldn't do that he'd just be standing there looking at them so they would go he's like there'd be like 15 or 16 guys in the steam room just to get a minute which is sort of funny i was like wow all right damn so that really was a problem Jesus. Man, I got a speeding ticket when I was 18 and I stayed at work two hours late just so I wouldn't have to go home and face my parents.

That was there every day, but with Babcock and as adults. Yes. Brutal. Absolutely brutal. So the Leafs are a couple points out of the playoffs. And I like that Greg Wyshynski does this stuff because Greg and I think Jeff Merrick, too. It's funny that they used to be on a podcast together. Greg's friendship tour.

They are the, yeah, Craig's Friendship Tour. They are the guys that consistently put forward ideas, concepts, and then, you know, beat those drums that can be very unpopular. And one of them is the 3-2-1 point system, which a lot of people have talked about for a long time. So this is where you would get, what is it, three points for a win. Three points for a regulation win, two points for an overtime or shootout win, one point for an overtime or shootout loss, and then zero for a regulation loss. So you lose a point if you go in overtime, right? So that really pushes the game to get really strong at the end of it. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then, you know, what if you're pushing for that point and you make a mistake and all of a sudden instead of three, you get nothing because you blew it with like 20 seconds left. It's good.

It's good? It's good. So Greg put out for ESPN.com how the standings would be different right now if it was a 3-2-1 system. Interesting. You have to keep in mind that the points explode because there's teams in the 90s already with points, right? Because a lot of regulation wins. This is the problem, right? I don't think that's a problem.

I think it's just a different point scoring system. It's the opposite of what the NHL wants, though. Like that little That shot of I think the top team In the Pacific Had 58 And then there were

Like 4 or 5 other teams With 57 That's exactly What they wanted And then you have to be Okay with blowing out Every team point record In the books

Yeah The record book Is written on I think you just Start a new That's the old record book This is the new record book As long as the NHL

Is okay to change Which they're not Which we don't think They are No Now I'm a big proponent Of wins and losses Did you win or did you lose?

Me too Games back Right? It's baseball, it's basketball, it seems to work the best, it's the easiest, and you can explain it to people that don't understand. But under a 3-2-1 point system, I wanted to kind of go through each division and tell you about how it would look. Interesting. So if we're looking at... Did he arrange it by points percentage, or this is just points?

No, just points. Just points, okay. Oh, God, can you imagine if he did it by points percentage? Then no one could understand it. So, okay, we're going to start with the Pacific Division, where the LA Kings are currently last, and they still would be last. Anaheim would be second last, same. San Jose, third last, same. Calgary Flames, interestingly, which are tied currently with Vegas and Arizona

for third, fourth, and fifth. They would be, I guess, they would be fifth in the division. Coyotes would be fourth. Vegas would be third. And they'd all be, Vegas and Arizona would each have a couple more points than Calgary

because of regulation wins. And then it'd be Vancouver and Edmonton. So it is exactly almost the exact same. The only difference is the point spread. So the top team in the division would be Vancouver with 79. The bottom team would be LA with 54. In the real world, it's 58 points for Vancouver and 41 for LA. Still a large gap.

So what is the point gap between Vancouver and Calgary? Right now? No, no, in the new system. Vancouver and Calgary. Both. would be, they're five points different. So a win, a regulation win and an overtime win in the three-point system.

And now it's one? So they have five points under 3-2-1, and it'd be one. Yeah. Interesting. That's why the NHL wants it the way it is. In the Central Division, you'd have the Predators with 70 at the bottom,

Minnesota with 70 at the bottom. Currently in the NHL, both are at the bottom. However, Nashville has one more point than Minnesota under the NHL's current system. So in this one, they'd be tied for the bottom. You've got the Blackhawks tied with the Jets. Making a move, by the way. We were picking them apart the other episode. They're making a move, but they've got 54 points.

I think we can, we'll see. They both are tied in the three-point system and in the current system with 54 and 73, I believe, 72. And then you've got the Stars, Avs, and Blues in that order. Three, two, one. Stars, Avs, Blues. And by the way, Central looks exactly the same. Stars, Avs, Blues for the top. And this is what I wanted to do.

I wanted to go through this because, you know, we've advocated for this system. But Greg's, I don't know if this is Greg's point in the full article. I'll be honest with you. Nothing would change? Too many words. Nothing's changed. It needs to be significant. And it just doesn't seem like it would be.

It doesn't seem significant. And again, we'll go check in at the end of the season. I'm sure Greg will post this. So, we'll go to the Metro next. The Devils would be at the bottom. The Caps would be at the top. Here's how it looks currently. You got the Devils at the bottom of both.

You got the Rangers second from the bottom at both. Now, here's the difference, though. No, you got... No, I'm sorry. I got my numbers mixed up. Philadelphia, third last. Fifth in the division. So, I guess fifth would be Carolina.

And they are still fifth in the other thing. The Islanders and Columbus, though, they switched spots. So, Columbus would have 80 points. The Islanders would have 79. In real life, the Blue Jackets have 60, and the Islanders have 61. And then you've got Pittsburgh and Washington at the top. Pittsburgh would be eight points behind the Caps in this new system. They are four points behind the Caps in the current system.

And then lastly, I'll just kind of run it down for the Atlantic Division. You've got Detroit at the bottom, obviously. Then you've got Ottawa second from the bottom, obviously. Nothing's changed there. Montreal third from the bottom. Nothing's changed there. Buffalo, 5th. Toronto, 4th.

And in this system, it's interesting. Toronto would be one point behind the Florida Panthers. So they'd be better. Well, yeah, they'd be, but they're currently two points behind the Panthers. Yeah. So it's like, okay. It'd be a little better. Two's bigger than one.

And then you got the Lightning and Bruins. Math. In the exact same spot. So there are like, I think I named four teams that are out of position there. The 3-2-1 point system does not change a single thing. No, which brings us back to wins and losses. And unfortunately, this little exercise changes nothing because we don't know what these games would result in

if it were continuous overtime or seven-minute overtime or ten-minute overtime or if we just allowed ties. But the discrepancy between the team with the least amount of loser points, so overtime losses, shootout losses, the discrepancy between the team with the least amount of loser points and the most is three versus 12. That's huge. Carolina, who's fighting for their playoff lives right now,

has the least amount of loser points in the entire NHL with three. Boston, who is now all of a sudden in this really interesting race for first in the division with Tampa Bay, could come down to the wire. Boston has 12. They have six wins worth of losses. That's garbage! So they've had 12...

Overtime losses. Or shootout losses. Yes. They have more overtime or shootout losses than regulation losses. Their record is 28, 10, and 12. That's crazy. So you look at that and you go, oh my god, 28 and 10, they're absolute world beaters. Nobody's going to beat them.

In reality, they're 28 and 22. What does that say? They're 28, 10, and 12 They have 28 wins 10 losses And 12 funsies We get a point losses So

Okay, ah And the Blues too Blues, you look at them 30, 11, and 8 Great record You cannot beat them But it's really 30 and 19 30 and 19 is a lot better

and 28 and 22. They have this same amount of friggin' points. Mm-hmm. With 68. And I'm not gonna excuse the Leafs from that conversation. They are... Tampa would be top of the division if we were wins and losses. They'd be 29 and 19.

And I'll throw this out there, too. The Bruins have 12 loser points. The next closest team are the Blues, Blue Jackets, and Sens with 8. They have two wins more worth of losses than the next closest team. If the loser point. It's not the 3-2-1 system

that we need to go to that. The loser point sucks. It's good that we have the regulation win as the tiebreaker, but it's just not good enough. Just dog it for the last... Look at the clock. Pay attention to how

the game's going. You need to risk it? Nah. Why risk it? Just literally rag the puck for the final 10 minutes of the game. 5 minutes of the game. Whatever it happens to to be, get it to overtime, see what happens. You at least get a point.

Secure a point. They're doing what they gotta do. They're doing the smart thing. I agree with that. I think it's funny that the NHL wouldn't do everything it can to make the game more exciting. The Blue Jackets too. Again, we're talking about the wild card now with the Leafs in the picture.

They've played one more game than the Leafs. They're three points up. They have more loser points. The loser point could potentially decide the first overall pick this year. The Sens have 8. The Red Wings have 4. You know what I mean?

The Red Wings are 28 points. Oh! Fuck! Okay, if the Red Wings don't get the first overall pick this year, it's not fair. The... The Red Wings have... Oh my god. Okay, we're about to enter a new conversation.

What's this? I didn't realize how... This is stunning. The 28 points? I was talking about how bad the Sens are. The Sens are 28th in a 31-team league with 42 points. Horrible. The two teams behind them are tied for second last. New Jersey and L.A. both have 41 points. Detroit has 28.

Wow. They have not broken 30 when no other team in the NHL has failed to break 40. Holy shit. And that goes a shout-out to all the Detroit fans who got super mad at us when we said the Marlies could beat them. The Marlies could absolutely beat the Detroit Red Wings. I don't care. They've also had a redonkulous amount of injuries.

That doesn't matter. They're still bad, man. Come on. If we're talking about real wins, they have the least. They have 10, and the next closest team has 13. Holy shit. They've won one in regulation 10 out of 50 games. They win one out of every five

Holy shit Yeah but to me Well like Mike Babcock used to say Take every season five games at a time right And they're going They're 20% Remember Mike Babcock that was his thing No it was six

Oh was it five Friggin guy Friggin guy But what was funny is In the first season In 16-17 it's like yeah we could maybe make the playoffs if we do that. And then, like, four years later, we're like,

we might miss the playoffs if we do that. What are you talking about? It was like a 96-point pace or something like that. I'm looking up something on HockeyDB for a second here. What are you trying to find? Well, let me ask you this. Ask it. The Detroit Red Wings in the 80s were known as the Dead Wings.

They were bad. They missed the playoffs five years in a row At a time when it was pretty tough to miss the playoffs 16 teams made it, there were 21 in the league And listen, the Leafs were no better But also, can you please stop using This is so stupid, I get this all the time I criticize a team and they're like

Yeah, but the Leafs aren't even in a playoff position So what? The criticism still stands Guys, we are Leaf fans Here, but Okay, now we're talking about this other thing Yeah, which is still relevant I got a lot of Montreal Canadiens fans I was like, well, and I'm like, no, no, no, here, we're not talking about them.

Let's, as a Toronto person, let me tell you, we talk about the Leafs too much, folks. Yeah. Now, the Red Wings lost, missed a lot of playoff hockey in the 70s. From 70, 70-71 to 76-77, they did not make the playoffs. So that's seven years in a row. And then the next year they make the playoffs, and then they miss it again. There's like no teams in this league. No, it's terrible.

And so, starting from 1980 and going right to 1989, the Red Wings made the playoffs three times. And that was when they started to kind of coin the Dead Wings era. Now, they missed the playoffs again this year, which is going to happen. You never know. How many more times... St. Louis! How many more times do the Red Wings have to miss the playoffs in a row for this to be the second coming of the Dead Wings era? I think...

Three. Three more times? It'd have to be a lot more. If they miss the playoffs five years in a row, it's not the new Dead Wings? No, well, because this is very intentional. If it becomes apparent that Eisenman's doing a crappy job... The last three years were not intentional. No.

The last three years were Ken Holland going, I don't know what I'm doing. So, I would say this is the bottom. This is the bottom of the canyon. And everything from here on out, if everything goes according to plan, is their journey up. Is that unfair? We'll see if they go up. I'll be very surprised if they don't. I would be too.

I would be too. But they still have to do it. It'd be legitimately difficult to do worse than they did this year. Now listen, Toronto's been a bit weak, but you've got a resurgent Florida team, you've got a Toronto team that's been strong for a few years, you've got a Boston team that's extremely strong, and you've got a Tampa team that's extremely strong. How are the Red Wings?

The Red Wings are going to really have to compete. And I think they miss the playoffs next year too. I don't think they're... Yeah. This is not a team that can turn it around in one summer, guys. Sure. Missing the playoffs five years in a row isn't missing the playoffs 15 out of 17 years. Not equivalent.

Who did that? The Detroit Reds. Oh, the 70s. Sorry, I was like, wait, that sounds like the Leafs. Is it the Leafs? There needs to be a hockey book on bad owners. Oh, I'm sure there are. The Hawks have had bad ownership in the past.

The Red Wings have had terrible ownership. The Leafs have had terrible ownership. The Sens, terrible ownership. And the correlation between bad owners and bad teams I don't know why nobody's written a book on that But there needs to be like a bad owner Bad team like bible Look at the Cleveland Browns

I don't know what this book was about But I saw NHL History girl Jen, she was tweeting about a book About the Rangers from the 70s Called We Did Everything But Win Or something like that, I just thought that was really funny Oh, and it had a story in it

about Tim Horton that I wanted to bring up on the podcast and I will abbreviate it but basically he tried to buy like a soda from a vending machine And he's playing in New York or Buffalo at this point? Great question Adam. Okay.

And the soda machine ate his dollar and so he's like I'll try it again and so he puts another dollar in and it ate that dollar too. Yeah he played from the Rangers sorry Rangers from 69 to 71 So there it is. So he calls the front desk He's like hey your machine ain't my dollar And they go we're too busy

We can't deal with that right now So sorry it just Ate your dollar we'll have to deal with it later So Tim Horton Notoriously would have been The biggest monster in the NHL If he just had a mean bone in his body He was just the world's strongest

Man But gentle He picked the vending Machine up Wow. Put it in the elevator and sent it to the lobby. Wow. Holy

That's crazy. And he said, alright, now fix it. Wow. That's fun. Man, that's cool. What a Gronk. Yeah, that's crazy. Everything about him was Gronk. He had the Gronk body and the Gronk head. Look at his head. He couldn't have been anything but a Gronk.

It was ridiculous. Anyway. From 68 to 78, the Detroit Red Wings had 10 different head coaches that had a new head coach every single season. Maybe this one. Nuh-uh. Maybe this. Nuh. Maybe. They did that for 10

years straight. Like scratch tickets. This is the one where I'm a millionaire. No! This is the one where I'm a... This would have been the Bruce Norris era. That was the owner? That's who owned it, yeah. Was that the era where

there were two divisions And it was basically the original 6th division In the expansion division So that would have, we're talking about Revamping the point system And the standings and all that Imagine being a Detroit fan back then And every year it's

Okay, so Bruins, Habs So there's two spots gone automatically And then the Leafs Who were coming out of a pretty good era Entering a not so good one And the Blackhawks and Rangers Basically Like, how many teams made the playoffs?

Yep. Was it two or three? Because two of those spots are basically spoken for right off the bat. Couldn't have been fun. I'm just looking at this now. Yeah, so the Bruce Norris, obviously the Norris Trophy is named after his... Brother of Chuck, yes. Yeah, after James Norris.

I believe his half-brother, wasn't it? Yeah, James Norris. Yeah, Bruce, James, and Chuck. They owned it for almost 50 years, and they sold it to Mike Yellich in 82. too. And so I'm just kind of looking at this. So they're in the Hall of Fame and that sort of thing, but it seems like

yeah. There's not a whole lot on the Wikipedia page on it, but I would assume that they went through a lot of the same things the Leafs did in the Dead Wings era. You would think. Where one factor in the Red Wings decline was the end of an old developmental system. Another factor was

Ned Harkness, who was hired as coach in 1970 and promoted to GM midway through the season. A successful hockey college coach, Harkness tried to force his two-way style of play on veteran Red Wings teams' resistance to change. They chafed under his rule and demanded short hair

and no smoking. He put other rules in place for drinking and phone calls. What? Yeah, I'm looking this up. Let's have some fun with this. Hang on. This is from an article in 2008. Oh, no. I can't look it up,

but I guess he had a rule. He was forced to resign in 74 ending a colloquial era in Red Wings history referred to as darkness with harkness. Red Wings acquired star left winger Frank Mahalavich from the Leafs after 68. Traded to Montreal. Yeah, so they don't say a lot about the Dead Wings era,

but the era lasted from 67 to 82. So we'll see. There you go. So you mentioned the crumbling development system. It was such a cheat code for a bunch of teams The Leafs basically had the pick of the litter for the Ontario-born players Wasn't there an actual bylaw if you were Quebecois, you had to play for the Montreal Canadiens? They had to be able to draft you

I believe they had the first pick of the Quebecois players So you have dibs on one of the greatest regions of hockey players on earth Yes, and the idea was, and part of that was, there was a, it was less about, I believe, and I could be wrong on this, but I believe it had less to do with the fact that, not just for the Francophone players to play at home, which obviously would have been a big deal, right? Obviously playing for your hometown team is a big deal. Of course. But I think it had a lot to do with the fact that there were a lot of people that were anti-Francophone back in the day. Probably. And there was lots of that going on, and it's like, nah, keep them there, which was a bad decision.

They should not have They were pretty amazing And it reminded me of something This was written This was posted by John Kreiser History is terrible Right?

Oh Jesse Every time you say A new thing You're just like Wow it gets worse It is about to So this was written September 3rd

2019 But it's a This date in history So Again Development Right? Getting guys

At a young age This date in history September 3rd 1966, Bobby Orr, an 18-year-old defenseman, signs a two-year contract with the Boston Bruins, beginning a new era in the NHL. A new what? Era!

In the NHL. That was a good one. The Bruins haven't qualified for the Stanley Cup playoffs since 1959. So that's seven years. Oh, gosh. Wow. Spend months haggling with Orr and his agent, Alan Eagleson, before coming to terms on a contract that pays him $70,000.

Plus a signing bonus Probably a coupon A hat A hat Or has been Or has been property Of the Bruins Since age 14

When he signs a contract To play Junior A With the Boston sponsored Oshawa Generals Of the Ontario Hockey League So The Leafs get their pick of the litter I believe they turned down Bobby or if I remember that correctly the Habs get their pick of the letter for the francophone players and the Bruins have had one of the arguably the greatest players in hockey history since he was a 14 year old boy

they still kind of do that in soccer with the development camps for that the The big clubs have you know isn't it a baseball thing, too? Yeah, but I think it's like 16 you guys I'm a player like the Dominican or those that's what they did That's how the Leafs got Vladi Vladi, who the Leafs Blue Jays Oh, sorry, my bad Yeah

Yeah, they can't do that anymore, right? No, they can still do it You can still do that? Yeah, yeah But in soccer, I know Like, you'll get down to ages As young as like 12 and 14 And like, there's scholarships going to children

Right Children You don't know, it's a kid Let them go to school That's so ridiculous But like, if you don't have it If you didn't have a developmental system back then That's it

You don't have a hockey team Yeah, it's true You don't have some grizzly scout over in Russia. First of all, they would never go to Russia under any circumstances. And he's certainly not going from game to game, finding you some guy with a little bit of pop. Do you have more Red Wings facts for us? I'm looking up Ned Harkness stuff right now. Okay.

So I guess this is really good. Part of the reason Gordie Howe left the Red Wings organization is because of Ned Harkness. Oh, interesting. Let me read this part. This is from Bleacher Report. This is the five worst coaches in Red Wings history. So he is number one, by the way, listed as Detroit's worst head coach. Ned Harkness.

Is Babcock on that list? He's not. Harry Neal is, though, at number three. Mid-80s coach Harry Neal, then became broadcaster. Ned Harkness was a highly successful college coach, mainly at Cornell, where his star goalie, some guy named Ken Dryden, who's ever heard of him, helped the Big Red win the NCAA championship. The Red Wings brain trust was led by an executive named Jim Bishop,

who was a lacrosse guy, as was Harkness before he made his name in hockey. Bishop decided to make Ned the first NHL coach who made the jump from college when Bishop hired Harkness summer of 1970. The 69-70 Red Wings made the coach under GM coach Sid Abel, but apparently Sid's long-standing relationship with the organization meant nothing, and Bishop really wanted Harkness. So Harkness's rah-rah attitude rubbed veteran Red Wings guys the wrong way, to say the least. Then, Ned got into a spat with star center Gary Unger

about the length of Unger's hair. By Christmas, the losses were piling up. Mattingly, shave those sideburns! And the team uninspired, Abel, who was still the GM, became concerned. It was clear the players despised him. After a 13-0 blowout loss

to the Toronto Maple Leafs in Toronto January 2, 1971... Was that Sittler night? I don't know. That was against Buffalo. No, it was against Boston. It was the 10-point night and Don Cherry talks about it every five seconds.

So it wouldn't be Sittler Night, then, because it's 13-0 and it's Detroit. Oh, my bad. So, anyway. Idiot. You tried. So after this 13-0 blowout, players signed a petition stating they would never play another game for Harkness, and they gave it to Sid Abel, the GM. In fact, during the second intermission of that 13-0 game, Unger recalled that Harkness

sank to his knees and said to the players, Why won't you play for me? In the dressing room. Abel was further incensed when Harkness was quoted as saying that things basically weren't his fault. Ned said the organization was paying for the sins of the past decade, which is a direct slam at Sid Abel, his boss, who'd been the coach and GM during those years. Abel wanted to fire Harkness, but Jim Bishop and owner Bruce Norris sided with the college man, Harkness. Abel resigned in protest, and Harkness was promoted to GM.

Minor League coach Doug Barkley replaced Harkness behind the bench. Defenseman Gary Bergman recalled years later, the moment he met Harkness, he knew he was in trouble. So here's what he did. This is a good little story. He said he showed up at my house that summer, and he starts rearranging the furniture in my front room, using my chairs as hockey players. What? He was trying to sell me on his hockey theories. My wife peeked in, saw the state of the room, and shook her head.

I knew we were in trouble. Oh, shit. Harkness stayed on until 1974, by the way. And you just reminded me of something with the Babcock thing He would just stand in the room Like, remember, oh yeah, he calls like once a week He would call and text players like at least once a week You just, you spend all hockey season trying to get away from the guy

And then he's friggin, leave me alone I'm trying to escape you Gordie Howe had to call Bruce Norris at home During that petition when they said they would never play for him again. One of the players said, we asked Gordy to make the call because he had so many years

with the team and he's always been very loyal. Norris was reportedly shaken by the phone call. He conferred with Abel who advised him to fire Harkness. Then when Norris refused, Abel later admitted he checked with the team lawyer to see if he could fire Abel.

He could not and that led Abel to sit down. He's like, I couldn't agree with the team policy nor work with this guy. And so Gordie Howe calls the owner and says, please fire this guy. And he never did. And that call was a courtesy. It's Gordie Howe. He could have just crushed his head like the mountain.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he still didn't do it? I'm still looking for, I'm looking for the phone calls rule, this Ned Harkness phone calls rule that I have not seen. So I don't know if anybody is a Detroit Red Wing fan and can find the Ned Harkness rules that the players hated. Obviously, you want them to cut their hair. I mean, God, the Leafs did that recently.

Wingwheel podcast, help us out. Yeah, I'd love to know more about Ned Harkness. He sounds like one of the most interesting players we've never, or people we've never heard of. Now, I want to talk about this. The Leafs are sitting outside the playoffs right now by two points. Boom. We know that, whatever.

Chris Johnson was on Fan 590 this morning, and he thinks the Leafs are, he said they're willing to be creative, but the deadline could pass and nothing could happen. My question to the room. The room. Are you okay with that? Nothing happening? If the Leafs do nothing at the deadline, are you okay with it?

The conversation I've had with a bunch of people is to win the Stanley Cup, you need too many good players. Up front, I think they do. I think they have more good players than they need. They have more good wingers. Centers, it's certainly passable I mean, they got the two-headed monster up front And then if either of them get hurt It's obviously a disaster

You can't replace talent like that But they have a redonkulous amount of talent up front Has the past week or two Not proven beyond a shadow of a doubt That they do not have too many good defensemen They're boned in that regard So I think, you know, Riley and Muzzin in the lineup, healthy, A-OK. I think their defense still isn't great, but it's close enough to the middle of the pack

that their scoring makes up for it. And I assume Freddie will get back to what Freddie is. But if any of them go down, the whole Jenga tower comes down. So the Leafs not making a move at the deadline, I think, is an enormous mistake. Okay, Jesse, your thoughts. In the last 12 months, Kyle Dubas has gifted the Toronto Maple Leafs with, I include, Sandeep, Lillegren, Barry, Muzzin. Yes.

I think he's done a lot for this team. Who has he got rid of? He's gotten rid of Garbage. Garbage. He shipped it out of town. Jake Gardner? Jake Garbage-ner. No, no, not Jake Gardner.

No, not Jake Gardner. No, we're talking about... He's gotten rid of a bad back, but he's gotten rid of guys like Ron Hainsey. Yeah. Nikita Zaitsev. Guys like Nikita Zaitsev. Roman Polak. Roman Polak.

Yeah. Hainsey makes $3.5 million. Yeah. Ron Hainsey is a $1.5 million defenseman. Right. Yeah. I feel like he's done so much for the team already that eventually it's like, okay, see what you got with these defensemen and stop acquiring defensemen

because that was just happening. I think we're seeing what we got, though. Right. And if they don't do anything, that's what I'm saying, I'm okay with that because we'll go into the playoffs and then we'll see. Right. Yeah, but then if the answer is they don't have enough, then it's just another playoff. So it's just another wasted— No, but then it's another answer.

It's a process. It takes time to build, and you keep building and building and building. What if the answer every year is nope? Well, that's anxiety talking to us, Steve. We haven't seen that yet. And I'm going to tell you what mine is. And mine would be is I'm fine with it. I think, first off, this is shaping up to be one of the worst trade deadlines in history.

Wait till I show you the TSN trade bait board. It is sad and pathetic. And it's from TSN. So if you're going to move a player and you're going to try to get something, chances are you're going to have to pay too much to get too little. What was it? The Leafs were trying to get Brandon Manning last year. Remember who they were going to have to give up to get him? No, Adam, I think we're getting in trouble again.

It wasn't Brandon Manning. It was not Carter Hutton. And it wasn't Matt Benning. Was it Ben Hutton? No, it wasn't Ben Hutton. He was playing for the Sabres. Ben Hutton was not an oiler last year. It was Matt Hutton.

I think it was Brandon Manning. God damn it. Anyway, it was Connor Brown. It was going to be Connor Brown. Yeah. So, by the way, Brandon Manning was suspended. He's a Bakersfield Condor right now. He's suspended for using a racial slur last night against the Ontario Reign.

He was just suspended about 10 minutes ago. Here's what he said. Last night, I made comments to an opposing player that were stupid and offensive. After the game, I spoke with the opposing player in person, which I'm very grateful for. He allowed me to apologize, and he took responsibility for what I said. To say I've learned from the situation is an understatement. I promise to be better. This just happened?

This happened 10 minutes ago. Beyond that, though, let's get into, I mean, like, listen, I don't know what else to say. I don't know what happened. And I know that there were some videos circulating yesterday of somebody's doing a rehab stint. for the Oilers. It's betting. It is betting. So I guess that there were

some fights going on. Anyway, he's been suspended five games. I'm okay with Dubas not doing anything at deadline. I don't want him to pay too much to get too little, just like you said.

I'm going to back Jesse on that. Let me have... You guys have said your piece. Let me say mine. And I'll tell you this. So you've got... You've got a guy that's made his moves.

Okay? So you got Tyson Berry to start the season. And that was a big deal. You got Kerfoot to start the season. Steve's going to miss all this. But Jesse, I'll tell you...

I'm listening. No, I'm bugging you. I'm just trying to find out. He's done so much in the last 12 months. He has done a lot. One more thing we asked about. Here was your trade deadline accusation. Are you ready?

Sheldon Keefe. The team has looked way better. Interesting. The team is. I mean, that was a first round pick a couple years ago, but sure. I think your move happened. You got the coach that you needed. Yeah.

At a certain point, we need to stop throwing these players a bone and say, figure it out, boys. the Leafs gave up a first round pick last year two first round picks last year they gave up one to get Muzzin the other to get rid of Marleau so now they don't have a first round pick till next year and they probably can't trade that one either because they need to bring some new talent

into the system at some point I think that you let this group unless you can make that move for a backup Georgiev is top of my list but if you can make a move for a backup goalie and slash a goalie of the future I say you make that move

But beyond that, I don't see this. Yeah, everybody's like, well, they could go get Brandon Dillon. Okay, so you throw a fourth-round pick at them. I know they've got a couple fourth-rounders this year. Sure. I don't know what Brandon Dillon. If Brandon Dillon's moving the needle for you, you're not a good team. Yeah, is that winning you a playoff round?

I don't think so. Maybe it's a depth move or whatever, but I don't see that being a big deal. I want to see this team. There's a question of it. Remember the 16-17 year where at the trade deadline they went out and got Boyle? Yes, who somehow never scored a goal for them. No, but he set up Kisberry-Kappen in overtime. You sure as shit did.

Now, by the way, Dan Boyle and Kisberry-Kappen were playing in overtime. Brian Boyle. Brian Boyle, excuse me. Brian Boyle. Matt Martin got an assist on that goal. I know, why were they playing? Why were they playing? But anyway.

Because it was double overtime. And you got to dip into your fourth line. No, he was rolling them equal because he's an asshole. But, sorry, I'm kidding. I don't know if he's an asshole. No, you're not. The reality of it is this Has this team

That team Earned A fourth line center And they earned The Leafs giving up A second round pick for it Sure The next year

Yeah I guess they earned it They just went out And got the wrong Fourth line center Placanitz was really good They paid far too much Far too much for Placanitz And they

I think that another deal Fell through And they couldn't get The guy they wanted So they had to go after Placanitz And pay too much for him He played He turned out to be

One of their better players In that playoff round Yeah but leading up to that playoff run, he was hot garbage. Awful. I don't think this team has earned the Leafs going out and being aggressive at this trade deadline.

I don't think that they've earned it. And I think you have to earn that. I think you have to for you to get a general manager to put all of his cards on the table, you have to be in two positions. You have to be in a team that's going for it. This is your year. We look amazing. Like what Tampa looked like last

year until they ran into Columbus. Or you've got to be Jarmo Kekulainen. We're going to lose three superstars in the offseason. They did. Duchesne, Panarin, Bobrovsky. We have to make a go of it. Right. And the third one is the GM has to be this is my last year. If I don't win, I'm out the door. You've got to be Alex Anthopoulos

being like, if I don't win this year, I'm out the door. And that's just not Dubas. That's not Dubas. He's not in that position. I think we agree more than you think. Because when you said it was Chris Johnson said they want to get creative. Willing to be

creative i'm i think any blockhead gm can go out and buy at the deadline who's a ufa here's a draft pick and you just knock it out the window yeah uh and that's it any blockheaded gm can do that getting creative to me is getting jake muzzin you get it yeah you know cost control d he provides some of what you lack you give up a little bit more for him but you get him for two years in a way, the Leafs' deadline pickup this year is Jake Monson. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because he's a deadline pickup for two years. Yeah. If they

go out and get someone who's going to be on the team next year, I would love them to explore that opportunity. Like an Alec Martinez sort of thing? Something like that. Or, you know, they go out and they get a backup goalie of the future.

Yeah, I think... A goalie of the future that happens to be the backup. That's when We're not having the right conversation here We're getting a backup goalie for this year But, for the future As well That is something I would like Unless you can get someone unreal like Robin Leonard

One thing you also said is that To win, the team has to have too much good talent But at some point You've got to have enough talent And then you've just got to accept what the guys are Why can't the guys there just play better And be enough talent for the team Because they can't

You can't keep building until you're like, oh finally we've got an all-star roster Now we're good enough and going to go for it. Eventually, maybe the guys here have got to play a better system and be more like Pittsburgh down the road, who can withstand injuries and play when guys are out. Have three guys named Dominic you've never heard of. Right. Make Conor Terry millions of dollars in Buffalo.

The Leafs have an all-star team up front. They're forwards, but they're not that on D because you can't have both because nobody can have the perfect roster. You're never going to win with the perfect roster. You can't keep trying to build it. Eventually, you've got to win with the guys you've got. The last year, Tampa had as close to the perfect roster as you could possibly have. And they were healthy going into the playoffs.

Except for Hedman. Hedman wasn't one guy. Yeah. Tampa had enough. They shouldn't have gotten fucking swept. They did. Columbus was a unique last place team to make the playoffs in that they bought the shit. Like, bought so hard.

Tampa should not have gotten manhandled. That was bizarre. That's still one of the weirdest playoff series. We're talking about it a year later. The NHL's seen a bunch of eighth place teams go and make the Stanley Cup Finals in the last decade. Like it happens. There was like the Kings were a completely different team after they got Jeff Carter. This was a team that I don't even know if they were in a playoff position when they made all these deals.

But they're like, we're going to get him and we're going to get him and we're going to get... It was really weird. They didn't load up with one guy. They loaded up with everybody that could get their hands on. I just think eventually the Leafs just got to make the guys they got right now play better. And they can't just be like, oh, we're one guy away. That's the reason they didn't win. To quote a guy I wouldn't want to quote in this situation, Bergevin, the answer's in the room.

And I don't think the answer was actually in the room for Bergevin, but I actually do think the answer's in the room for this Leafs team. I was very reactionary on the Martin Marincin thing last video, but I've already talked myself out of that extension because of one bad game. Listen, I get that he knows the organization. I get that the numbers say he's better than he looks. Aren't there a thousand Martin Marincins available every freaking summer? There are. You know what?

If you're getting Martin Marincin, I think what they did was they're signing him for the AHL. I don't think they see him as an NHL defenseman next year. No. It's like a guy in a pinch, but you can't. He's, he's a, he'll be a well-paid American League player that doesn't count against the cap. Yep. Which they can afford to have. But like, he isn't, he aren't, I look at him and Callie Rosen as the, one is the defensive version of the other, who's the offensive version of the other.

Mm-hmm. They're, they're fringe guys who can do a couple things okay. Mm-hmm. Who, you didn't need to sign that player in January. What? Yep. What are you talking about? Yep.

it's pretty painful. Yeah, it is. It's a pretty bad look. I've seen him in the playoffs, too. I didn't enjoy it. I didn't either. It wasn't for me. No, I think, I don't know.

It seems like, to me, if you go out and you reward this team that has not rewarded you, you know, you talk about... You rewarded them with Babcock. Yeah, you rewarded them with Babcock because you sort of had to. But I think Kyle Dubas, like, look at, not to bring this, keep bringing this up, because it is resolved legally. But you look at what happened with Austin Matthews this summer and the fact that he didn't contact the Leafs organization. Right. Which is insane.

Insane. You look at the brutal contract negotiation. I get that it's business and that sort of thing. But the mudslinging that happened from the Marner camp through various members of the media towards the Leafs. And we're talking about the team's two best players who have played like it. Yes. Yeah. And they've played well.

Yeah. But then they've played not well on certain nights. I'm sorry, but your reward was those contracts. That's your trade deadline acquisition. And if that's not good enough for you, then you're not going to win. And I don't think you go rewarding a team that has been this inconsistent. I don't think you send that message. I think you say, sorry, guys, you're stuck with what you have.

And if you want to go golfing in April, that's great. Kyle Dubas will be fine. The thing is, people worry. People look at this and they go, well, Kyle Dubas could lose his job. Yeah, guess what? He's now in the rotation, baby. He'll be picked up the next flippin' day at another organization who will let him do what he wants. Part of the reason he has this job is they were going to lose him.

Exactly. Part of the reason. And so when you, you know, Kyle Dubas will go and he'll make the same amount of money somewhere else and he'll be fine. He'll be just fine. Kyle Dubas will have a longer career than probably every guy on the Leafs roster right now. Yes. Yes. Absolutely.

He's not worried about anything. Kyle Dubas' chips are in, man. He's made his move. He's younger than Spezza. There's no reason for the Toronto Maple Leafs to make a deadline move unless it benefits the team long-term. I could see an Alec Martinez for a manageable package. I can't see a first-round pick for Alec Martinez.

It doesn't make sense. Not that it doesn't make sense for the Kings to try and get one, because I think it does. But Alec Martinez is a good defenseman, a very good defenseman, But the Leafs do not have a first round pick to give What about something Real small Like you can, I don't know

Brandon Dillon Fifth or sixth round pick for a guy like Michael Delzotto Like it's literally just Michael Delzotto is one of the worst defense First guys on defense Yes, but he doesn't move the needle He's just guy in a pinch They have guy in a pinch

Who's guy in a pinch? They've got Marincin I want to see KV Halmy I want to see Lilligren When they decide to show up I agree. Do you want one more guy in a bench on the roster? Is that what we're looking for?

Kyle, Michael Delzato. On the right. Michael Delzato. There's no one behind him. And no offense to him, but this is a team that's already bad on defense, and you're going to have a guy who would actively make you bad on defense. And that's just not Michael Delzato's game. Why are we getting him?

You also don't want to trade for a guy and then healthy scratch him. That's a bad look. Yeah. And people are like, they should go trade for Robin Leonard. Why? Go get him in the offseason. Nick Patan's grinding his teeth right now. Yeah.

Right? You don't want to be the team and the guys talk and be like, oh, I got traded there and I got healthy scratch. So Sportsnet put together. Is the best. They had their various reporters put together a list of three names that maybe each team would want to go after. So the three teams that came out with articles today, we get the Leafs, we get the Flames, and we get the Oilers. So on Luke Fox's list about the Leafs, Georgiev's number one with the Rangers. Then you got Brendan Dillon for the Sharks, who they've already been linked to.

Luke said, yes, the 29-year-old is a minus 4 this season But his club is a minus 37 Oh, shit He starts the majority of his shifts in the defensive zone And finishes most of them in the O-zone That's good That's good Listen, he's a tough prick

And the rules are just different Yeah They are different I hate him playing against my team The Leafs have six 2020 draft picks in round 6s and 7s The Sofs toss in as a sweetener And he mentions Timoshev, Korshkov, Bracco, Petan Agostino, Aberg, like all names that could be packaged as a part of a thing.

You got the wheels spinning last episode when you said Agostino and Korshkov. I want to see what they look like as Leafs. I'd like to see what they look like as Leafs as well. The other one that came up here is Travis Hamanek. Now, we know that the Leafs tried to make a deal with the Flames last summer. Apparently, that was a treat to TJ Brody, but it could have been Travis Hamanek who they're interested in. They have been interested. Now that Rasmus Andersen has signed, Hamanek is up at the end of the year.

what do the Leafs go out... You know, Hamanek's a good defenseman. He's better than what they got. Better than what they got. All of a sudden, you got Barry Hall-Hamanek? Barry Hamanek-Hall? Who do you give up, though? Hamanek's in the last year of his deal.

He's going to be a UFA. That's not... Unless the Flames are giving something else, that's not Kapanen-Janssen territory, because they're signed long-term. You know, like if it was a player for player And they made the same amount of money Yeah, sure, maybe

But those are younger players Making cost-controlled money They're exactly what the Flames need What else are the Flames giving in that deal? They do need cheap offense The Flames? Yeah I just

I look at, I don't know Flames fans would be like Milan Lucic Like I'm looking at I'm looking at Bracco Or like Timoshev Can you get Oliver or Shillington? Probably not

Probably not I'm just like how do i do does anything the leafs can offer them like they don't be useful to the flames but do they move the needle at all hammock would no no no for the flames i'm trying to come up with something to impress the flames i think johnson moves the needle i think captain moves the needle oh yeah yeah no sorry i thought you were saying not them well no i think if you're gonna give them you have to get something back i'm saying it's got to be hammock plus right okay now we're Because now, Flames fans will be like, what are you talking about?

But you've got to look at this from a situation of, where are their contracts at? Because that matters sometimes more right now than what their level of play is. Flames have a lot of good defense. Leafs have a lot of good forwards. Chris Johnson said today, the Leafs have like 17 NHL-ready forwards, right? They've got the deepest forward pool probably in the NHL. I think it's more than that. It doesn't mean they have the top, top talent.

Clearly, that belongs at Edmonton and Pittsburgh. but they have the deepest pool of forwards the most complete forward lineup in the NHL I'd say they don't perform that way at least half the Marlies forward group I would take on the NHL roster so is it a draft pick? you know are you getting

like the Leafs don't have a first rounder this year are you trying to get a second rounder or a first rounder out of the Flames so that you can at least maybe you can try to get that first rounder that you're lacking and maybe it's still low it's low 20s because the Flames are a great team

What about a Jantz Okay, something like a Jantz And a Bracco And you get a Hammonick And something, pick, I don't know And maybe it's a conditional pick Maybe if he re-signs, it's a second Or it's based on playoff rounds

Or if you win a round, you get a first We're cooking, we're cooking, here we go They're open to being creative So anyway, I just thought we'd throw that out there But that's a move that's not just, hey, get guy For whatever guy It has a purpose There's a purpose and a point.

Yeah, where you're building, you're improving on the team, hopefully for long term and short term. Here are some other names that Luke Fox put forward for the Leafs to consider. Sammy Vattenen, Mike Green, Eric Gustafson, Dylan DeMello, Andy Green, Ron Hainsey. Dylan DeMello's a name? Sean Walker, Michael DelZotto. Sorry, which one? How dare I who? Ron Hainsey.

You know what? I wouldn't hate it at this point. I think we're done here with that. I don't hate it. I don't hate it. If he's played in the right spot I don't hate it No

Okay, so let's go into what Eric Francis said about the Flames Because Eric Francis mentions the Leafs Oh, Dylan DeMello is not having the season I thought by the way, sorry, 38 games, 0 goals, 7 assists Hamnick has less Does he? I think 3 goals, 7 assists

So, here are 3 things the Flames could look to do by the deadline He wants them to call up austin zernick uh and demote mark janikowski because the flames need scoring which means the leafs can provide that and the leafs supposedly looked into mark janikowski um uh he said they should trade sam bennett no this isn't a fire sale but the 23 year old is not working out in calgary uh there's a chance they could use him as a valuable trade trip i don't know how sam bennett becomes a valuable trade ship if he's not working out in calgary i think

that's the opposite of valuable trade chip. He's going to be a Leaf. All Leaf Flames trades need to have at least 19 players. Let's do it. That's true. You know what? That is a rule. Almost all of them. Minimum. The Gilmore trade. Massive. The Strollman trade was actually fairly big.

The Phaneuf trade was friggin' enormous. Let's go. Let's have a 19 player trade with the Flames. Um, and he said the third thing they need to do is acquire Kasperi Kapanen. That's very specific. Okay. Yeah, that is fair.

He said he checks all the boxes for the Flames being a right-handed shooter with a reasonable cap hit, $3.2 million for the next two years, and he would still be at the RFA at the end of it. He said while Bennett might be a part of the deal, the more obvious chip would be TJ Brody. TJ Brody's left-handed. I know he plays the right side, but he's left-handed. I don't want to get— Anyway, the Flames have tried to trade Brody and his $4.6 million cap hit for a while, included in Nick's deal for Nazem Khadri last summer.

I've soured on this deal very fast. Yeah, the real object of the affection could be pending UFA Travis Hamanick, who the Flames do and should covet as a virtual untouchable. Hamanick embodies everything the Flames need in the playoffs. So he wants them to give Brody, even though the Leafs definitely want Hamanick. Defensemen are coveted at this time of the year, which means the Flames would have to replace TJ Brody or Travis Hamanick with a back-ender of significance.

Such an addition could be Juso Valimacki, if his surgically repaired knee shows signs it might be able to return before things. So, Eric France, it's not really that. He's more like, hey, can you rip the Leafs off? That's mostly what he's trying to do. I look at it, you got three arguable luxury players up front in terms of their contract and importance to the team. There's Kapanen, who makes, I want to say 3.3.

and is 23. You got Kerfoot, who I think makes 3.5 and can regularly play center. And you have Andreas Janssen, who, what does he make? Three point, maybe he's 3.3? Three point something. Three point something. There you go.

Janssen is 3.4, Kapanen 3.2. Kerfoot 3.5. Rank them in terms of importance to the team. I'm going to put Kapanen first. Me too. Kappy, Ker, Janssen. Yeah. I think we all agree on that.

Honestly, I think Johnson's coming off a pretty nasty, you know, broken ankle, so it's tough on him, but yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah, and I mean, he had pop in the Calgary game, I thought. Here's what I'd ask you. The Oilers need to trade for a defenseman, right? And so here's what, this is what Speck said for Sportsnet.ca.

He said they need to acquire a 3C, they need to find a winger to help Conor McDavid, and they need to add a D-man if Matt Benning is iffy. that's a lot that's a lot love stuff they need something at almost every position yeah well they do

and they are they are cheat code with Dries Seidel and McDavid but let me ask you this let's get creative again because this is a podcast and this is what we do here

sure let's say it's the Leafs and Oilers lining up a deal okay which I've always tried to make work in my head

and I can't because they need the same things well they do and they don't you need what do you need more you've got

Clefbaum, Larson Caleb Jones and Ethan Baer, and Darnell Nurse on defense, right? You've got a lot of young, good defense there, and you have Chris Russell, too. Not a lot of top talent, but guys. But guys that are, what are you, 3-4 guys? Which the Leafs need, right? The Leafs need a 3-4 guy. But I would say, if I'm Edmonton, I'd say it's not deep enough for me to remove from it.

However, agreed? Yes. But if your options are find someone to play with McDavid and remove from the defensive pool, do you not take that? I say, hey, I'm going to do this McDavid-Drysaddle thing. Yeah, okay. And run with my defense. If there was a trade to be had, you've got cost-controlled guys,

and the Oilers need this because they're apparently going to commit four years to Zach Kassian. And money's got to come off the books for them as well. Or they'd rather pay three and a half million bucks to Janssen or Kassian. Holy moly. Depends on how you look at hockey.

Yeah, it does. The Oilers need cap-controlled, Guys that can score 50 points a year. You imagine Janssen with Kapanen. I know. I mean, sorry, Janssen with McDavid. Imagine you have a Darnell Nurse, because they're saying his extension is going to be big and long,

or that's what they're saying in Edmonton. He would be so fantastically popular here. He would, because he's tough. And Speck said he wasn't sold on him, and that he may not develop into the top-line player, whatever. Darnell Nurse is an RFA at the end of this season. The Oilers have very little space. but and and you're getting a cost-controlled winger from the leafs for the next three or

four years depending upon whether you go with johnson or capitan you know it could be yeah johnson or capitan plus or it could be nurse plus i don't know how you work that deal up but does that not make some sense the way the oilers think about hockey i think you're about to head into what you hope is a two-month war against psychopaths with knife shoes and you're going to trade one of the toughest friggin' nuts in the entire league. I don't think they would.

But if they would, I would certainly listen. I'd be intrigued by it. Like, Darnell Nurse is a great hockey player. And I'm not trying to be Toronto-centric and being like, well, we're just going to walk away with whoever we want.

Because that clearly isn't how it works. But you have to say, the Oilers and the Leafs can help each other out with a trade here, you would think. I mean, the more, Kapanen and Janssen have more value than just what their stats are. And by the way, their stats are pretty good. Yes. It's their contract control. It's the fact that when Kapanen's deal is done, he is still an RFA. Still.

Oh my God. He, listen, he would have tremendous value in a trade, but I'm not letting him go for nothing. Exactly. And I don't know, is Darnell Nurse enough for you? The Leafs, the soft team that will not hit and all that. Darnell Nurse would look amazing. Imagine a seven-game series. You're trying to come up the left side, and you've got healthy Riley, healthy Muzzin, healthy Nurse.

There's not a lot of room to breathe there. That's unpleasant. Yeah, Darnell Nurse is a left-handed D. Which doesn't necessarily serve. The Leafs would, here's the conversation. Dermy, you play the right side now. Sorry. And the thing is now with Dermott is at least you know Dermott can move the puck.

The issue against Boston the last couple of years is they had pretty good puck movers on the left side and guys who could not move the puck on the right. Not at all. Now you've got Berry, you've got Hall, and you've got Dermott. All guys that can move the puck. Darnell Nurse then takes away the idea. You can sign Jake Muzzin in the offseason, but now you don't have to. Every conversation comes back to, and they have friggin' Cody Ceci.

Ah, whatever. Like, whatever with that. He's not playing, so it doesn't matter. You don't think he's going to play in the playoffs? In this situation, are you telling me? You don't think Cody Ceci's going to play? No, but in this situation, we're talking about this hypothetical. The Oilers get the winger they need.

I don't know who the winger they need is. They want Kapanen, you know, whatever. The Leafs get Darnell Nurse in this scenario. In a Kapanen for Nurse deal. Yeah, and whatever that looks like. I'm not saying one for one. It's just whatever that looks like to you. With me kicking and screaming.

Darnell Nurse comes in and is a scary player. Because he is. He intimidates people. He's awesome. He's the fifth overall pick that we all thought he would be. You're telling me that if you got the option to roll Barry Riley, you know, Muzz and Dermott, and then, let's say, Hall Nurse, just for it. Let's just say what it is.

Hall Muzz, C.C. Nurse. No! CeCe makes that line You're gonna put Cody CeCe in there? Yeah right If you acquire Darnell Nurse That just leaves more room for Cody CeCe Because more of his bad plays

Is covered up by great players What have I said about Brad Marchand What have I said about Brad Marchand for the longest time Part of the reason he's able to be Such an asshole Is he's had just murderers around him So here's what you do Riley Berry, you make it work dammit

Muzzin Hall We know it works It does work It's done well And then you have Dermott Who is a utter prick He is a prick But he's not that big

But he's a prick And you put him With the toughest fuck you can find All of a sudden That's a very interesting looking little decor No you have to play Cody Ceci No! You absolutely

He's the backup He's the third goalie He's the third goalie You're not benching Cody Ceci There's no way If Freddie gets hurt It's Hutch If Hutch gets hurt, it's CeCe.

That is the plan. Backup goalie of the future. That's how it works. No, we're done. I solved it. I'm not putting 4.5 up in the press box. What about on the moon? You know what I think you can do?

Could you do the moon? You know what I think you can do? If a team is, like, if you need the space or whatever, you could probably retain on CeCe and flip him to another team, you know, for the last 20 games of the year or whatever. Like, I don't think at this point of the season it becomes that hard to move him. Like, if you want the Red Wings to take and be like, listen, we'll give you one of our six rounders. Just take two and a half million of his salary so we can bring in more salary or something like that.

You want getting creative? The Red Wings would help you out for that. You want getting creative? Do the undoable. Which is moving that player. No, that's not getting creative. That's dumb. Why is it dumb?

Because what possible, what does it serve? He makes 4.5 and sucks. He's taking up a spot on this team. So when you bring in a guy like Nurse for a comparable deal, say, in Janssen or Kapanen, who make about the same, what does CeCe have to do with any of that? No, make both. I would like to see both deals happen. I would also like to live at Disneyland.

I would like a lot of things. It's just silly to think, because why bother? Why even think about it? Adam, I cheer for the Leafs. Why waste time on the phone? I cheer for the Leafs, as if I like realistic things. You have a limited amount of time in your life, especially around the trade deadline, and you're going to waste time on the phone trying to work out a deal for Cody Ceci,

that is not going to move the needle. Darnell Nurse moves the needle. Travis Hammett moves the needle. Those are just two names that we threw out there. Sure. Cody Ceci moving his $4.5 million on the cap, which at that point will be less than a million bucks, that makes, Steve, that makes absolutely zero sense.

You leave him on the roster. If you need him in a pinch because someone's injured, I don't know if he's a... I think Marincin might be a better option. But you got stuff. You got Sandy and you got Lilligren. You got Marincin and you got CeCe going into the playoffs. People are going to get injured.

You do need those guys. And there's no cap in the playoffs. Look at Adam. Look at Adam. Trying to make sense of hockey. Hockey's dumb. It's dumb. Just do the thing.

Do the thing that I want. It's dumb. It's Steve and I want to do it my way. The playoffs always say fuck your plans. Yes. That's why I'm saying. Right. You need the depth.

You need body. You need a guy who's played in the playoffs. You need a guy who's going to play 82 games for the Leafs. You're going to want him on your playoff roster. I think so. At least he knows the system. He knows it. He doesn't necessarily play it, but he knows it.

He knows it. Okay, I'll settle for this. If they can find a way where he's not playing every night, I'm jolly as can be. Darnell Nurse is the way he's not playing every night, and everybody's healthy. Interesting. And by the way, let me throw this out there. The Leafs are not negotiating with you. You said, I will settle for this.

They don't. Again, this is where Steve gets, every goal is personal. It's personal. Every. It is a goal. It is a vendetta against me. It is. First of all, it is.

Freddie allowed that because of me. He did. He did. He did. And he points to the camera and he goes, that was for you, Steve. And I'm like, you Danish bastard. Why? I cheered for your team at the World Juniors.

Why? And by the way, the traffic on the way home, also a personal affront to Steve. Yes! It is! They're doing it so you can't see the first period where the Panthers light up the Leafs. Quick, quick, quick, quick, quick, quick, quick, quick, quick, here and park. And they all just put their cars in park. That's how it works.

I have to leave for ice surfing relatively soon. Okay, well, we can wrap it up. We gotta do a quick press conference? Yeah. The Presser S.D.P. The Steve Dangle Press Conference. The Press Conference is Did you see Duncan Keith and Jonathan Taves fight at practice? No, I was about to, and then the show began.

It was more of a wrestling match. It was like grappling. They both laughed it off, but Duncan Keith apparently left with his sticks after they got into a fight. Oh. Well, Taves said it was a... That's why you do the pre-games, or the morning skate, to get you ready for the game, and now we're ready for the game. What the hell? Oh, so that's interesting.

Because anytime you hear about those teammate fights They're at practice This was at morning skate That's weird Fun times in Chicago Very fun times And things have been going well for them What the hell

Second thing Did you see the preview of Sportsnet's feature on Connor McDavid No I read it though You read it Well I read the So supposedly Why did you watch the two minute video I friggin I didn't

I just happened to not I'm about to go to Sportsnet. I'm going to see it. Okay. What happened? You read it. Yeah. You know what happened.

Well, I want you to say it. Explain what you read. Connor McDavid, when he hit the net in the last game of last season against the Flames. When he hit the net, there was that famous clip of, if you do a little bit of lip reading, it looks like he says it's broke. He thought he broke his leg. Actually, it sounds worse. Supposedly, he tore his PCL in half.

His PCL, PCL is one of the ligaments in your knee. I think it's the one behind it. I don't know. Very important. It was a potential career-threatening injury. Surgery would have required a 10-month recovery. So if I'm not mistaken, he wouldn't even be back yet. What's May to April to whatever, 10 months.

May, June, July, August, September, October, November, December, January, February. He'd be coming back in a month. There you go. And he chose to do rehab with no surgery. And he rehabilitated it. And he rehabilitated his torn pectoral. And he's got something like 75 points in 49 games. He is a mutant.

Question to Adam Wilde and Steve Dangle. Do you think there is something wrong with that? They told Connor McDavid, hey, you require surgery. He says, no, I want to be ready for training camp, which he says in the video. He says, training camp is my date. I'm going to be ready for that. So he does this other thing, and he gets ready for training camp. He's healthy now.

It worked. Is that a problem, though? It reminded me of, do you know the Brock Lesnar intestines thing from when he was in the UFC? No. so he won the championship and was clearly why are you laughing no keep please keep going he won the championship but then clearly wasn't himself right he was only at a certain percentage of his strength turns out he was his diet was so fucked up that he had holes in his intestine and they're like forget mma your career is over you're going to be shitting into a bag for at least the next

six months potentially for the rest of your life and brock lesnar said no and instead i'm gonna eat vegetables and stuff and his intestines healed and doctors were like you're a goddamn alien how the hell did that happen so that's what it reminded me of athletes professional athletes are not they're not like us guess what i tear my pcl in half i need surgery maybe mcdavid doesn't But, I would say it's The lesson learned here I would say is not a good one The outcome is good, the lesson learned is a horrible one

The outcome is McDavid is fine, great The lesson is Don't listen to doctors Apparently it's better than ever Looking at him play, I'd say it looks fine Everybody's better than ever before the playoffs too Remember that

What if it snaps again because you never fixed it properly I think my favorite part About the question you asked Jesse was, Adam, what do you think? And then Steve brought me into the story. Yeah, and you looked up at the sky! So I was like, I'll jump in! And I like how you noticed.

I gave you time to think! I thought. It's my favorite. I love you, man. There's only one Steve. Listen, I think you have to let people have control over their own bodies. You can't mandate this stuff.

I know not a lot of people that pay attention to this, or watch this show, watch a lot of mls but i do and the uh toronto uh uh captain um michael bradley was it was announced today that he won't be back till may uh because they knew about an injury that he sustained in the mls cup final they said if you rested it might work out and he did and then he now needs surgery because it hasn't healed and josie altidore another one of the team stars came out and said this has happened before this is the the medical staff has let us down again oh wow and it's unacceptable so that's a pretty major statement from the star player who they committed to right so you know i

think you know i'm sure that the the uh i'm sure that it's up it is up to conor mcdavid ultimately you cannot as a team order a guy to get surgery so yeah is it the right thing yes steve you're right though wrong message and i think but where are the others going to make the playoffs this year if conor mcdavid gets that surgery so not a chance no literally zero chance zero chance so it's what i'm worried about here is not mcdavid's injury thing in a vacuum i'm worried about the oilers staff you look at what happened with boy arby um you know the hips that's a major major thing and i i just i feel like there's something something doesn't smell right there It also might have just been him going, no, F you.

Yeah, it might have been. Right. It might have been, but you can't deny there's a bit of a connection. Can you not? Like there's, even if, even if none, neither have anything to do with each other, you can't blame me for going, yeah, but we've seen this before. That is true. That is true.

But it's, it's the, at least the third example I can think of in hockey where we're like, you're, you did what? And you're okay. Yeah. Mike David, Stamkos with the broken leg, Carlson with the Achilles. But, now, Stamkos isn't exactly a young man, but he's done fine. McDavid's still a young man. Carlson is no longer a young man.

And we're looking at him almost every game and going, this guy cannot do the things he once could. He simply can't. But that was also because, that wasn't because of the original injury. That was because of a later injury. It's multiple. But the ankle was always there. Yep. And who knows?

Your body, the way everything's connected. I'm learning this, dealing with all my frigging bullshit. Everything is connected. So if your Achilles is making you skate differently, all of a sudden maybe it's screwing up your groin. And that led to the groin injury and now blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Is McDavid, who is the best player in the world right now, bar none, mortgaging his future? And this is the conversation we always have with athletes is, like, so many of them cut their career by five, six, seven years, but they get a championship out of it. Wasn't that what you're playing for?

Yep. And millions of dollars. Yeah, and millions of dollars. I don't know if it's the, like, Paul Correa. Let's go to one of the most notorious examples in the sport. Paul Correa gets his brain just demolished by Scott Stevens. And Gary Suter. Yep.

And he comes back and he scores the game-winning goal. And he brings his team to within one game, within three goals of the Stanley Cup. He probably does it again 99 times out of 100. Right. Maybe even 100. That's what he was playing for. If I were in that position Would I have handled it any differently?

I don't know If I was a professional athlete And I had worked my entire life to be in that moment Would I have been like No, I can't go out there and play in the Stanley Cup Final No, I think you'd I don't know Yeah, I think it'd be pretty tough

You're all looking at it Because there's no There's no skin in the game for you Yeah You've never done this It's super easy for me to go Connor, get the surgery for heaven's sake You're asking

him to look at it rationally, which I don't know if he can, because it's him. And it's not a McDavid thing, this is a professional athlete thing. One thing, if you remember when Clay Thompson injured his, he tore his ACL in Game 6 of the NBA Finals

last year versus the Raptors. He shot the free throws! He came out, he shot the free throws, he went to the back, and he started running on it, because he said I'm going to go out there. It was a torn ACL, and he said he wasn't, he was like it's fine i'm gonna go back out they told them no you can't do it derrick step on um a couple years ago broke his leg at practice and everyone's like how do you break your leg at practice because

it was already broken it was broken and then he broke it you know what i mean like there's there's so many examples throughout sports the what was so unique a few years ago and maybe this is the difference between what it's like in the major leagues when you're living out your childhood dream and the minor leagues what was so unique about game seven marley's versus the texas stars is travis dermot had the option to play and he chose not to interesting because he was that's because he was injured in the series against boston he was going in the nhl yes i because he was looking out for his future if that game seven is game seven of the stanley cup final instead of The Calder Cup, Travis Dermott is playing in that game.

He's not going, here you go, Andrew Nielsen, you take it, which is what he did. He's playing in that fucking game. By the way, just as a quick aside, you talk about how the body's interconnected and how you're learning stuff. So I've been going to, a lot of people have noticed, and somebody thought I had a cocaine problem, actually, and they were really sweet about it because of the way I played with my jaw. I do remember. And I know you've got to go to ice surfing, but I've got to tell you this story quickly, quickly. Sure.

So it was really nice of that person, by the way, to reach out and say, hey, do you have a problem? I had one too, and they were really kind. It was a very very nice. I had the same thing about my back Everyone's like oh man. I see you adjusting old. Yeah. Yeah, it's So so anyway, I mean I'm at this rehab clinic now because I finally had enough I was getting to the point where I had headaches every damn day. I'm not out for your drug addiction no rehab for my job and My jaw has been bad for years and you've seen it on the show and you see me playing with it caused by drugs What's caused by drugs? No, but I was taking Advil or knockoff Advil every day

And that's bad for your stomachs bad for your liver you should not do that so i finally go and i'm in the assessment room and the guy's like okay so um he's like any injuries or anything like that i'm like no not really he's like do you play sports growing up i'm like yeah i played hockey for 12 years but like i wasn't good and didn't play at a high level so i didn't really get injured and uh and he said okay so he's kind of feeling around my neck and whatever and he looks at my hands and i've got a really tight neck really tight jaw get a lot of headaches in in you know temples above my eyes and in the back of my head it doesn't matter every day it's something different and so he he looks at my hands and my right hand's

fine nothing right what do you see on my left thumb you have a cut yeah you have a scar i have a 11 stitch pirate scar on my thumb it looks like a pirate scar like one of those ones you draw on your face right how'd you get that again i was cutting uh we bought uh costco laundry boxes basically of of powder for the laundry machine and basically at the time we had these tiny little gray bins that you could fit your cardboard in. And if you didn't get your cardboard in the gray bin for them to take it, they wouldn't take it. So if you put the cardboard

beside the gray bin, the guys would be like, no, screw you. And you'd never get your cardboard taken. So my dad was anal retentive about this and it was going to be my job. So I took a brand new X-Acto knife and I'm cutting through a box that is double layered and it slipped and sliced my hand. We've had this conversation before. My dad has a

similar scar, similar spot, similar it was with an X-Acto knife. So he said he said, what's that? And I told him the story that I just told you. And I said, well, it's, you know, he said, can you feel anything with it? And I said, yeah. And he rubbed his hand. He's like, no, no. And he rubs both of the the thumb wrist area.

He said, can you, do those feel the same? I'm like, well, no, it feels a little different. And he's like, okay, so here's what, I'm going to tell you something. I'm going to ask you something first. When did, when did you get this scar? And I said, I was probably 13 or 14. So when the jaw trouble happened, I said 15.

He said, mm-hmm. So apparently there's a nerve called the C5 Okay. C5 nerves goes from your feet, apparently, to your thumb, to the back of your neck. Is it related to the CTV program W5? It is not. Ah, damn it. If only.

It's not investigative journalism, sadly. The C5 nerve, and he said, I noticed that the left side of your face is, that's where the majority of your jaw trouble comes from. Oh, yeah, it does. he said that's because you've got nerve damage in your thumb that your body is now overcompensating for in your neck and jaw

and that's why you've had jaw trouble for 15 years and so this little cut this little 11 stitch cut is the reason that I've been having headache after headache after headache and it's funny I've had since then he's put me through what's the needle thing called

acupuncture and they put like electric Currents in it too, so your your arm starts to like I've heard nothing, but good things Incredible incredible stuff and right away. There was there was a point where he grabbed a piece of my um my back and I was lying down. I went oh You know what I mean yeah, and he's like oh just to let you know that that This is how much pressure and he pinched the back of my arm He's like this is how much pressure I'm putting on and he barely touched me and

There was a point he hit a point on my back right away That was like I would have if I was standing up I would have been on the ground hearing this makes me tense. It's crazy to get that feeling. I'm sorry. I can hear you yeah, so you bet but imagine what a PCL or or With the back your ankle that Carlson had or I know imagine what that does to the rest of your body It's not just isolated. It's not just in a vacuum. It's everywhere. So anyway, I told you that random story because What is it gonna do to make David's career later on? what did it do to Carlson's career

who admittedly had other injuries I think that's part of being an athlete your body is going to be destroyed after this and they'll tell you it's worth it yes and you know what, McDavid makes so much money that he could literally drive around on a Segway

the rest of his life, doesn't matter I've met Bobby Bond you know what that guy's got arthritis a limp and four cup rings one of which he's responsible for directly Yes, like, so, it's, listen, Adam, if you had a radio accident, if you got a shoulder injury from a ridiculous radio accident, you were being stunt boy on the radio, I'd be like, Adam, as your friend, you gotta take ten months off and get that surgery. Yeah, yeah.

Conor McDavid makes $12.5 million to try to win the Stanley Cup in the National Hockey League. And what he does is his prerogative. Now, if someone is encouraging him to not take the surgery, I think that's wrong. There's a moral issue there. I agree. I think that's wrong. I agree. Yep.

But if it's his choice, okay, man. It's his body. Go for it, but I don't think that's a good idea, but go for it. It worked out this time. It worked out this time. We're told, anyway. It very often does not. I think about a guy like Andrew Hammond, who I got to talk to, who had many health issues he was dealing with.

And then the Sens call him up. And then he wins 20 out of 22 games or something like that. And he's free McDonald's for the rest of his life. And free McDonald's. And he becomes this phenomenon. And then, so now all of a sudden you're in the offseason. You're going to get off-season surgery and miss training camp and miss the beginning of the season? You're not going to do it.

And it wasn't until it was finally time, like you cannot play right now. You stink because your body won't let you play. It wasn't until then that he finally had to go, all right, and then he took a step back. The correct answer is my body hurts. I'm going to go out and fix it. I'm in the show. That's what I've been doing this for. I'm in the show. I won. I'm winning. I'm in the playoffs That guy was one of the worst goalies in the American Hockey League that year by the numbers and he played in the Stanley Cup playoffs

they didn't win but Played in the Stanley Cup playoffs the responsible thing to do would be to not play But he friggin got a three-year multi-million dollar contract out of it. It's called trading future wins for current wins, right? It's like why you trade draft picks. Sometimes you got to do it. Yeah. But it depends who you ask. I'd be interested to talk to like Nathan Horton, who, you know, we know his life is pretty tough right now because of that spine surgery that supposedly he needs.

Would he do it again? He's got a cup ring. He's got millions of dollars. Can't play with his kid. Can't play with his kid. What would you do it again? David Clarkson's got a really nasty back injury. I wonder what he would say.

And the elbow. And he doesn't even have a cup. Right. One day, I think we're going to ask Steve Dangle, was writing that book worth it? All those back injuries you have now. Yeah. All those back injuries from carrying the show. And commuting.

And the Leafs organization. Yes. Because everything they do is on him. Everything. And that's why I love Steve. I'll settle. Kyle, listen. I will settle.

Four. You know, the trainer just told me, you know what actually contributes to a bad back? Interrupting your co-host. No! So? Your back must be terrible. It is! We found it.

I love you. We'll never know. We'll never know. Jesse, this is the show. You are such a good sport. This is the show. I'm mortgaging it. I'm worried, but I'm going for it.

I'm trying to win a ring. Quick aside, and we should mention this. We weren't sure. Ice surfing. Ice surfing. I don't know. Listen, one last thing. One last thing.

this is important. Not really. Listen, I didn't realize that this was a thing, but there's a Canadian podcast awards. We were sent an email

about it and we were like, yeah, okay, what organization is this? Apparently it's legit. You never know, right? Yeah, we didn't know, but we are,

I think we're nominated with Chicklets, Tight End, 31 Thoughts and Dimitri Filipovich's show as well. So anyway, listen,

it's nice to be nominated in the sports category and made it into broadcast dialogue, magazine but listen hats off to whoever wins it and thank you for nominating us and

screw spitting chicklets yeah fight me biz you hear that fight Steve in shape biz versus bad back Steve I saw him try out for the lacrosse

you know no I can never hate spitting chicklets Ryan Whitney contributed to one of the happiest moments of my entire life. He was on Team USA when they lost to Canada in 2010. We'll see you Monday! complete.