The Steve Dangle Podcast - Es | October 24, 2022

Episode Date: October 24, 2022

On this episode of The Steve Dangle Podcast, Support Rachel's Raiders and Easter Seals Ontario: https://eastersealsontario.akaraisin.com/ui/lindros/pledge/sponsor/donation?pid=8152719 The Vancouver Canucks are still winless this season (00:00), You Can Bet That with Sports Interaction (22:00), the Toronto Maple Leafs beat the Winnipeg Jets (28:00), John Tavares and Ilya Samsonov have looked great (47:00), Shane Wright's awful start to his career (53:00), and Lead NBA Reporter Es Baraheni on his start with sdpn! (1:05:00). Originally aired: October 24, 2022 Watch the full episode here: https://youtu.be/b_i88eachbU Visit https://sdpn.ca for merch and more. We've joined The Athletic and you can too! Hit the link to subscribe: https://theathletic.com/sdp Any opinion expressed is not advice, a promise or suggestion that increases the chance of winning. Gambling can be addictive, please play responsibly. To learn more, visit: https://help.sportsinteraction.com/hc/en-us/articles/216779528-Responsible-Gaming-Self-Limitation-Self-Exclusion Or if you have concerns about a gambling problem, call ConnexOntario 1-866-531-2600. Ontario Only. Must be 19+ or older to play. Visit this episode's sponsors: Get 20% off + free shipping with the code DANGLE at https://Manscaped.com/. That’s 20% off + free shipping with the code DANGLE at manscaped.com. It’s time to get wet and clean with your new MANSCAPED™ Shower Routine." https://sportsinteraction.com/sdpn https://athleticgreens.com/sdp https://betterhelp.com/sdp https://www.mintmobile.com/sdp https://linkedin.com/sdp Follow us on Twitter:@Steve_Dangle, @AdamWylde, & @JesseBlake Follow us on Instagram:@SteveDangle, @AdamWylde, & @Jesse.Blake Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, you scaped your man lately? You've been scaping your manhood? Manscaped. It needs work. Manscaped.com slash Dangle. Promo code Dangle. 20% off and free shipping. Start the show, Jesse.

Okay. This is Steve Dangle Podcast. Powered by Sports Interaction. Canada's sports book. Backhanding. Woo! S-D-P-P. The Steve Dangle Podcast.

With your hosts, Steve Dangle, Adam Wylde, and Jesse Blake. Oh my God. You got a piece of Vancouver Canucks in your arm. They're just falling apart at the pieces. Oh, Adam. At the seams, that's what I mean. How could you? Is it really going to go down like this in Vancouver, guys?

Are we really going to fire a coach because the team is doing bad stuff? I don't know about fire the coach, but like, listen. It's October. i think we found out that that expires after six games i think that's it right that's it that's all and i think uh management knows that it's not on the coach this time and it's on the players um i mean luke shen going at jt miller at center ice oh and the game's not even over at the end of the second period yeah luke shen's 100 correct yeah and then before before before you said what were they yelling about i don't know the exact play that they were yelling at

each other about uh i assume it has something to do with jt miller being on the ice for uh every goal against ever and you know we've given the jets crap um because you know shifley is not the greatest defensively wheeler's not the greatest defensively jt miller is absolutely shocking he's absolutely shocking and that contract i don't think has even begun that extension yeah that they needed to sign had to sign like it's to the point where like do they got to get rid of him like i mean i know they talked to teams over the summer like just because he signed doesn't mean that he can't be traded oh of course i think they signed him to trade him it was just that they couldn't find trade value right now jesse what did you what were you going to say

there because we were trying to get both of you had good points going at the same time yeah Are we getting into this? Are we starting with the Canucks? Oh, yeah. I've got the quote from Horvat, if that's what you mean. No. Have you guys heard this quote? I was going for the quote for Jim Rutherford on the fucking After Hours.

Jimmy Ruff. Let's go. A lot of people missed it because it was so late. Yeah, because it happened literally at one in the morning. But some of us can't stop watching television. Some of us are a loser. And we watch a lot of stupid hockey. I was up doing the LFR, and I'm reading these quotes, and I'm like,

I feel like more people should be talking about this, but they're all asleep. So the problem here with the Vancouver Canucks is that they should have had a rebuild a couple years ago based on how the team is performing now. It seems to be true that they should have probably gotten rid of these older assets and started a rebuild. So they asked Jimmy Ruff, hey, where the hell is this rebuild? The fans want it. Let's go. Jimmy Rutherford said, I think people have to realize how long rebuilds are. You look at some of the teams that went through it, and we look at them now and how good they are now.

But there were a lot of tough years. We may very well be in a rebuild in the direction that we're going. But ideally, we'd like to transition this team on the fly. We do have some core players, some young players that are really good. And these guys just need to keep working and try to work through this at this point. But we will continue to add younger players to this team and bring it together in the next year or so. Those are so many words. Can I compare and contrast this with a uh something that should ring in your mind especially if you're a canucks fan but anybody in the nhl imagine this is your captain on your team saying this my jersey got your unsigned captain yeah my jersey got thrown on the ice last year and i'll never forget it for as long as i

play because somebody's jersey was obviously thrown on the ice um this past game on saturday that's bo horvath said that it's something that hits home and when you see it happening this year it definitely sucks but i understand their frustration we haven't given them much to cheer about it's been a lot of years in rebuild stage and at this point in the season it just feels like it's never going to happen like we're never going to win again cool so rutherford gave you word salad horvat gave you direct not to bring him up again but this is the second time luke shen has been on a team that hasn't won in any of their first six games and this has it's his fault hey at least he won a cup no no no i'm not saying it's his fault and also stanley cup champion

luke shen exactly absolutely right um god every former leaf just anyway um i listen i said one two games ago that the canucks are on track to be the oh seven and fun leafs they're close now they have what is it two overtime losses they do okay so they're already a bit better but no two overtime losses really i don't know it's they're either oh four and two or oh five and one oh four and two they're all four and two oh four and two dude um you're already so far behind the eight ball like here let's let's talk about how important the standings are or the the early season points because you talked about the gap how far back of a playoff spot are the canucks right now right now so they sit in the last in the pacific i think they're only two

points out they have two points and the king's sitting fourth at six points yo the pacific stinks go the wild cards yeah oh my god okay so wild card wild card standings the second wild card spot is the kings at six points of vancouver so they're four points that's okay you know what things aren't as bleak as i thought they're fine i thought we were gonna i thought there was gonna to be like an eight nine point gap not yet wild not yet and chicago sits in a playoff spot which is absolutely crazy but isn't philly in a playoff spot yeah the philly started off uh just on fire they're secondly the metro before in our season previews we identified there were maybe four or five teams really genuinely trying to lose and two of them are in a playoff spot right

right the the reason the Canucks should be concerned is the play on the ice it's not just even the record on top of that it's the effort that was given in the third period on Saturday which uh Boudreaux had to acknowledge to the media that's how apparent the team effort in in forechecking and playing defense and giving up on the game was so firing Boudreaux is not going to fix that well no and to add to that they've been outscored 13 to 1 in third periods oh 13 to 1 you're not gonna win you're just not like flat out you're not winning yeah you have a negative 12 goal differential in the third holy so they they asked him at the podium on on saturday hey it looked like your team quit in the third period budro says i never like to use that word

oh there's no way we can catch up type of thing and because they haven't had success yet i mean i would like to think that there wasn't anybody that was saying there i don't care what happens now i quit but i just can't i'll never accept that in my mind so brujo said you know what i can't i would never think that a player could quit but he didn't say that his players definitely didn't quit in that third period it was so bad the buffalo sabers handed them their lunch early on and it was over because their greatest defenseman in the history of the national hockey league rasmus stallion five goals the buffalo sabers dude record-setting greatest defenseman of all time rasmus stallion and the the canucks literally gave up by the second intermission yeah it was

pathetic and and so sabers are away what is it yeah by the way yeah they're four in one sweep of the west that's that i didn't know that's crazy and they're they're getting um in terms of uh goals goals saved above expected they're the top goaltending team in the nh incredible that's yeah that's so perfect i love craig anderson and eric comrie yes yes come on you know why because eric comrie's winning the vesna this year actually it'll be a tandem vesna win like it used to be in the 90s and 80s comrie and wouldn't it be sick if craig anderson who's eight million years old wins a half vesna i think we really got to figure out who's scouting hockey and why they're bad at it i think it's like i think you're right yeah like look at darcy kemper uh wasn't he

like darcy kemper was was a goalie that a couple teams gave up on darcy kemper has had three careers like i remember talking about him as like a non-option in the nhl because he was years ago now he's won the stanley cup and now he's in washington who doesn't really feel like helping him very much who leaves the sabers and goals rasmus dahlin nope no no mcdavid the sabers sabers i think he said the nhl oh um oh man talk alex tuck has six goals a lot of tucks wow a lot of tucks for alex he's got some uh some some ground to make up hey oh yeah just a bit he had a slow start last year too and i don't i know that's a story league wide because he won the heart and won the rocket he looks great i'm sorry oh man he looks great we'll

talk about the leafs a little bit later on but i just i i know i'm not taking shots at austin matthews i think he's had a great start whoa you hate him yeah i know what do you gotta say about yeah yeah what's next so the canucks yeah they get not trying well and and so okay so with bruce brujo saying that he's saying i would hope that they're that they haven't quit um and and and you know so maybe they haven't quit in terms of themselves but they seem to quit on each other at least for now they're not playing for each other and like listen we talked about body language last show when it came to mitch martyr elliot was talking about it again this weekend my body language comment is for jt miller and luke shen what was so pressing at that moment that you guys

couldn't have waited the 20 second skate to the dressing room to scream at each other that's what very tiny conor garland was trying to get across he's like conor garland's in the middle of them and they're both towering over him yeah he's telling for a back check jt miller's been awful on defense is it we've been on this for years and oh he's worse he's so much worse is he worse than Shifley and Wheeler? I'm joking, Jets fans. I mean, they are bad. Way worse.

They have bad moments where I feel like GT Miller just doesn't know how to do it. Or doesn't try. Both. Defense is not about not knowing how to do it.

Okay, red flag when you're a good player and Tampa lets you go. Red flag. Red flag. I don't care how many points he's put up. Dude, red flag.

When did we stop hounding guys for that? By the way. For defense? Yeah. Well, I think... Phil Kessel got shit for it. And he played defense.

His entire tenure in Toronto. And I never hear it get brought up. I think because, first off, it was lazy at the time. Because he played defense, but the team was so bad. Like, you're gonna... They took a ton of shots at Kessel and Phaneuf. Phaneuf had his limitations. Kessel had his limitations.

But their biggest limitation was that nobody else in the NHL probably would have been on a roster of a playoff-bound team. Like, their entire roster was bad. This is a team that played, well, they played Jay McClement 15 minutes a night to 18 minutes a night regularly. They had Jared Smithson come in and he was, Jared Smithson in the Kessel era was like statistically one of the worst players to ever play for the Leafs and no offense to him and his family or whatever, but he was, Dave Steckle, like think of the guys they had.

Their numbers were atrocious. They're atrocious. and the reason we're bringing these names up is i look at the canucks roster and i go what's a good roster it's it's at very least fine their blue line's not great uh what upgrades you i think is up thatcher demko demko's great i'm begging for a win thatcher fuck my fantasy team bro holy shit well that's what he's gonna get if he's not quitting on on you that's like i can't drop them because what am i oh yeah what they always tell you in business so low i got jt miller too i'm dying stop it anyway oh i'm gonna score for you though oh uh tic-tac-tomar just beat me this

week i am i'm dying please for the love of god i need the canucks to get back on the rails i pitched this as a segment idea to jesse and steve and i think we're gonna do it at some point either this week or next is jesse is going to go through because we're now like a month into the season here and we're gonna have jesse go through and go where steve went wrong with his drafting not not necessarily the players he drafted but how he went wrong i want to i want jesse to analyze steve's team and go do not make the same mistake steve did my team's actually doing pretty well it's there's no goal i thought you just lost there's no no like it's a really tight pool this year i have no fucking goalies like i can't win i can't win i i had seven goalie starts last

I think one win is that what he can't win or is he flawed when he drafts his players I don't know well I did it's all dependent on the league of the team we'll see I want to know I'm gonna kick both your asses I thought Jesse was gonna go in on you there no JT Miller here yeah so okay Mr. No Defense and like this is a league with no plus minus thank god oh yeah because oh I mean, if I had it, I'd be negative a million. Because JT Miller is... Listen, he got his contract for a reason. These are the expectations that come with it.

And when you stink, you get lit up for it. If bad players are on the ice for all these goals, it's the coach's fault. The coach has to play you, JT. He has to play you. You're supposed to be the team's best player. Yes. based on the money or at very least top three and he's looking like a non-option so they play

tonight versus carolina which is a tough out yeah that's tough that happened to the leafs last year they had that horrible game against the penguins followed up with chicken soup for the we got our ass kicked soul you play the hurricanes uh i think oh five and two is potentially on the horizon here the hurricanes this is how you win in a game that doesn't make any fucking sense their hurricanes are three one and one this year in five games so and and i don't know if you saw did you see uh brent burns get hit in the face with the cross check no oh yeah this uh this past weekend it was uh who the hell was that they must have been reaching pretty high so they were i forget who it was it was a pretty notable player as well cross-checked him right in the face and

brent burns just goes to the bench typical brent burns right takes a water bottle just sprays his his bloody lips off and it goes all down his shirt back on the next shift uh i mean the positive there is he doesn't have any teeth to knock out that's true they all they have their you know that from the kit kat commercials you would i mean you talk about a guy who has really capitalized on all the things his face lacks he's every commercial it it should it i mean i want him i want the script for his next commercial to just be like check it out i got a big beard and no teeth anyway buy this yeah i would apple auto glass like you can't fix this face but you can't fix your car window shield yeah yeah you can fix your empty gas tank i'm brenn burns for eso

i can't find the uh it's it's a hell of a cross check it's it it's it's worse than the cross check for matthews and doleen and it won't get looked at really yes absolutely well no because matthews is dollying it slid up his thing this guy it was it wasn't it didn't slide up anywhere cross-checked him right in the mouth i love how like the toughest like rough and tumble players in the league all of a sudden turned to it was an accident when stuff like that happened i gotta see that clip um so so with the canucks playing carolina hurricanes tonight obviously the third period is like if they don't the game doesn't start till 10 30 so i will miss this game but the period to watch here is that yeah it's a 10 30 start it was 10 wait oh the canucks yes okay

thank god no 9 30 leave yeah i'm pretty sure the leaves are 10 doesn't matter guys doesn't matter uh the point is the third period is going to be the one to watch and that eastern standard time will be after midnight but i think it'll be fascinating to see how because because i think of all the of all the things that matter the most for the canucks the third period's been their achilles heel it's the reason they're in this position if they don't turn it around tonight like you could be listening to this tomorrow morning going oh the canucks kicked the hurricane's ass everything's good you could be listening to this and saying that and you made you made fun of me for talking about uh seattle and their first game last year where they had a

three nothing lead or no sorry they were down three nothing came back but they weren't able to win it canucks had a three nothing lead over edmonton if they just hold on to that thing even if you win three two oh you can't tell me their season isn't going completely differently right on friday show i said about saturday's game that they needed to win that that was a must win they didn't do it yeah but even if they're like if they win that game they're one three and two which looks a lot different than all four and two that doesn't help this roster like i think the conversation now needs to be about what is the gm gonna do like are we are we gonna do the rebuild here jim rutherford are we tearing it down well he's the president yeah the patrick

alvin but they they have that very interesting who's actually in charge dynamic right but like are are we actually gonna try and move jt miller fairly soon before his uh before this contract like we get any deeper into it you know it's so low foolproof strategy talking like at the end of the summer or something like that like are is it a sell time for the canucks they're gonna try and rebuild on the fly how do you do that well how what do you rebuild though like right horvat i think is worth holding on to um no one's in hughes no one's taking oel yeah peterson should be part of your rebuild hugh should be part of your rebuild uh you could trade besser but i think he'd be decently served as part of your rebuild and also he's hurt um hoglander you can't trade

a good goalie like demko you want to hold on to that of course you want to and you don't have anyone to replace him with unless you like you can the canucks can really really really commit all in for bedard if they get rid of i i think and and there would be takers for demko because the goalie market it would be you imagine what it would do to those but i think i don't want to do that yeah if you're the canucks you do what the jets do you you have a good goalie you hang on yeah you build around the goalie like yeah i know people are are saying rebuild rebuild rebuild what what what are you doing oh i think you gotta i think you gotta get out from under the myers contract i can't believe yeah that oh remember oel still plays there and at the moment that he

plays 7.2 until 2027 dude yeah but none of those things like when i think rebuild i think dude with one or two years left on his deal who's useful Myers isn't good OEL is not good who else we got so that's 13 million right there Horvat's a UFA at the end of the season that's all you got so committing to a rebuild to me means trading Bo Horvat but it also means handing over the team to JT Miller and by the way Horvat and Miller are from what we read and what we heard last year that's the dressing room split along those two guys lines are you a miller guy or a horvat guy do you need to eat that horvat horvat i was just taking it out horvat just he's opening a peppermint patty i hadn't even put it in my mouth all right horvat jt miller well now i'm gonna eat it

yeah you weren't gonna eat it i was just taking a peppermint patty opening it and putting it there to not eat it first of all no i'm steve i was never gonna eat this chocolate that i just had in my hand so so horvat jt miller the team has to decide whether it's the horvat team or the jt miller team but that's the reality even getting rid of horvat looking at their cap friendly everybody's locked up yes what does that get how do you it's such a good question how do you rebuild the team if you were trying to rebuild and we go back to vibes they're horrendous they were they're catastrophic they have to split that dressing room up they're gonna kill each other yeah man like i really don't think this team is miles away from

being competitive and like what how many points out of a playoff spot are they four yeah they have two and uh la has six canucks could be in a playoff spot by saturday night literally yeah just one good week there are seven teams in between them though yeah they could be what if they all lost all week no every game holy shit 31 teams lost four straight Oh, my literal Larry. Jesus. And you know what? Steve's also not going to eat the chocolate.

Just going to take it out and look at it. I'm having another one. These aren't even my favorites. The thing about peppermint baddies is you always look at them, never eat them. You got to wait for them to season while they're in the air. It's like a bottle of wine. You definitely underwrapped that chocolate not to eat it. Oh, man.

I was going to eat it, just not that fucking second. but now i gotta eat it all right let's get into you can bet that with dave bastel sports interaction canada's sports book presents you can bet that with david bastel must be 19 plus please play responsibly ontario only all right dave we got a big night tonight so leafs and gold nights we're gonna get to in a second but i i want to start with da bears and the new england patriots what do we got on tonight's game and the reason i'm bringing this up is because jesse is very very about the the football stuff and i always want to see what your opinion is and then see how jesse would play it well interesting okay yeah you know what new england favorites heavy

favorites about eight and a half points i don't i don't usually like laying this many points but i think they dominate the bears and the and the pats defense is so good um i wouldn't be surprised if this is a two touchdown win for the pats a lot of good props a just with the running backs on both sides um i uh i i can't wait to play some of those a little bit later on this afternoon when i kind of break down some of the numbers what about you yeah i think the the easy choice is under anything passing with justin fields uh because that guy cannot throw a ball downfield throwing the ball isn't big on justin fields i know it's not like a part of his job description he's not good at it but um a lot of people are gonna be scared away from the high line for the

pats but i agree 100 agree with you that uh they're underrated in the way they can dominate a bad team and i think they'll cover that number how is it that chicago always gets the worst quarterbacks like cutler cutler had like a couple good years they made the finals once with him right but like mitch trubisky who i'm seeing now as a stealer i'm like oh my god and then this guy can't throw a football what's the deal i don't know they haven't been able to produce a good quarterback in a long time. In a long time. Steve loves it all. Jim McMahon maybe.

I think the Bears are going to get eaten up by Drew Bledsoe. That's all I'm saying. That's right. Throwback take. Yeah, really. Yeah, the most famous Pats quarterback. Leafs and Golden Knights tonight. Pretty even matchup Dave. Pretty even matchup.

The Leafs, slight favorites on the road. You know what? This doesn't really happen too often when teams go to Vegas. Now, this Vegas team is obviously a lot different than some of the vegas teams we've seen in the last couple of years so uh leafs opening up as uh 181 on the road on the money line and uh vegas just a little bit over two so and also by the way i've added this i don't have confirmation yet but i'm going to say by the time people watch this this will be on the site for sure a lot of phil kessel props because you always have the phil leafs thing

yeah exactly you got to have it right so whether you're cheering against or for him uh i uh i'm a big fan of phil kessel i think he's kind of turned into a little bit of a cult following now that he's left toronto but uh it's gonna be there on this site definitely check that out do i take steve do i take any time point or any time goal for phil kessel see this is my thing because i have a couple golden knights on my fantasy team as well like i want uh the over in this game in this i mean yeah why would you bet against phil jesse especially against the leaves former leaves against Leafs always bet always bet the goal.

Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be there. We've also heard that the that the the prop about about Phil Kessel's goals this year at Sports

Interaction may have reached his ears and he said hammer the over. That's the rumor. He was not happy. Well, that's what we heard.

That's what we heard. Anyway, Dave, thanks so much. You go to Sports Interaction dot com slash SDPN to sign up. We will see you on Friday, sir.

And thanks for not bringing up Saturday. Oh, I'm sorry I should mention that Later on in the show you're going to hear from Brand new lead NBA correspondent For SDPN, Esper Haney

He's coming into the studios We're going to get to know S a little bit better But in the meantime The Leafs win round one of the Shifley Cup That was That was a tasty game It was It was a fun game

There were some things that went the Leafs way That should not have gone the Leafs way Take your comeuppance what do you mean take your comeuppance my comeuppance no the fucking fourth line sucks the fourth line did suck all right so i got the game winning i know i tweeted the fourth intangibles ftw get fucked boo wayne simmons pulling a 2015 between the legs what did you say i said they were useless i said it was like 2014 vibes they were yo shelly keith wasn't even playing them they were so bad they were so bad they had the fourth liniest fourth line game

oh yeah ever oh my god awesome don't tell me that was good that was the that was the most fun i had watching a least game all season yes i agree it was a great game they they weren't a part of it they were hitting scored the game winning goal okay they were they were hitting everyone intimidating everyone getting hemmed in their own zone taking flashing calls taking totally unnecessary penalties both of them Clifford with the trip two minutes into the game two minutes into the game

first or second shift in the offensive zone useless penalty absolutely useless and then Simmons with Shifley was entertaining but you can't be taking that penalty especially when your team is in the lead because of you Wayne but

they also win the game and it was also they won the game it's guys they were completely ineffective in that those intangibles that they bring it kind of felt like it mattered in that game it in that game versus the jets where the jets are all chippy it was important to have wayne and clifford okay so let's fucking but you take that line and you throw it out again against boston in the first round we're not doing that yeah but if they did this is the problem right so the leafs play a team like the jets who are objectively just not as good okay they should beat the jets the jets are good that's another

team i look at on paper i'm like why are you bad they're just not as good they're fine okay but they're not as good as the leafs is that fair are we are we arguing in that yeah no so so the leafs can go throw clifford and simmons out there all they want against the jets because they have three good lines that can compensate my problem is and again we're reaching too far ahead but i'll say it anyway in april when you need the tough guys to come we need tough guys to play we can't have tough guys doing what wayne and and uh and kyle clifford did um against a team like the bruins like the lightning a team that we're likely going to play you mean what clifford did last season in game one yeah a hundred percent man we need listen i'm so down this what i was so impressed

with with the leafs it's fucking morgan riley going yeah no you're not gonna fucking do that to my guy and and punching somebody's face in and and and i i think the leafs do stand up for themselves a lot more than they used to i think there is toughness there from the players and i do think they play a little bit tougher when clifford and simmons are in the lineup that's what a lot of people are saying however those guys are not good enough to go if you want that you need to get a higher skilled version of that that cannot be what we have being tough going into the playoffs it can't this is the challenge though for so zach aston reese doesn't look like he's going to play tonight against uh that's right because they they liked it he's going to get

healthied um obey kubel was a healthy scratch against the jets and engvall was a healthy scratch against the jets engvall is going to get back in obey kubel still out zach astin reese is still out zach astin reese and obey kubel were the guys on camp's wings right and i like their potential for being a really good fourth line they in the games that they had did not prove they could be as effective as the wild cards that wayne simmons and kyle clifford are and they're wild cards they are um they're gonna give you a shift where they fuck shit up and they're gonna give you a shift where they score a goal and they're gonna give you a shift where they put you that line put their team down for four minutes unnecessarily and scored the game winning

and and and that's cool i'm down but what i'm saying is we need if that's what's going to make the team get tougher if that's what's going to you know if that's what it's going to mean for morgan riley to throw his gloves and you know matthews to throw the hits he was throwing he was awesome we'll get to that but i'm i'm if that's what it will take for them to feel a little bit then you got to go out and you got to get some toughness that can play a little higher up in the lineup or be more effective fourth liners that's such a difficult thing to acquire like a tough guy who can play up in the lineup isn't something you just go out on the street and purchase a third line guy you can ah what if what if wayne's the thing that gets morgan riley riled up and allows

him to defend nick robertson then we need more from morgan riley and like we saw in the broadcast even mentioned it they became unplayable when the game was close in the fourth in the third period like they didn't they got benched for the last seven minutes of the game because you couldn't trust them on the ice you can't do that like david david camp is your top pure defensive center you can't put them out with those two frankly defensive liabilities right so you're gonna put them out there with I think it was Kerfoot and Yarncroak that's a good

third line right I can deal with that Kerfoot with Hampton Yarncroak okay yeah that's how you shut a game down but based on what we said about those guys and the challenge laid down Engvall

can you finally fuck shit up finally I'd love to see that Aston Reese fucks some shit up next time you get in the lineup obey kubel 20 hits great can you do anything else fuck some shit up for as chaotic as the fourth line has been it hasn't been chaotic enough they haven't been disruptors enough that's what the leafs want out of their fourth line this is a message yeah but and they got guys that did it they got exactly just and those guys are going to keep their lineup spots i don't mistake it this isn't i i i think i misread the situation

this isn't wayne and kyle getting a couple games and then they'll go right back to the other fourth line no aston reese and kubel obey kubel have for the time being lost their spot they lost it this isn't an experiment they've lost their spot for effort alone our Not in terms of skill. Chaos. Not even ever. I think they were trying. They just weren't effective.

So eventually, either Simmons or Clifford are going to have a stinker, and they'll lose their spot. It's probably the next game. Who knows? Guys, it's not a good line. It's not. I would prefer to have Obey Kubel's speed against Vegas, personally. but this is the message this is how you need to play to get in our lineup whatever you bring

to our team you need to bring more is there anything wrong with the standard for the toronto maple leafs getting raised no i think that's great for for for intensity for belligerence for toughness and frankly because it's a contact sport violence there's something and wayne and kyle are not afraid of that and there's something that triggers our reptilian brain i think if keith randomly put simmons and clifford into the lineup against dallas we'd be like oh okay well dallas is a big team i suppose i get that but we'd be concerned it's winnipeg and everyone's like yeah all right that's fair no one no one had any objections did they they made complete sense and it it worked frankly so and saying they're not good i think is unfair because they were good

at the things they were supposed to do but they were also bad and they were lucky they you know they put the team down for four minutes for two stupid penalties they were if those guys are going to be effective they can't take penalties like that and this is the thing i'm not rooting so whenever you criticize a leaf player these days it's a little bit like you you must hate them i fucking love wayne simmons are you kidding me i want to see success for these guys it's my team i'm cheering for them but but when you play a team like vegas as highly offensive as they are uh it's gonna be a problem if you take penalties like that so yes it's great that you got a goal yes it's cool that you that you you brought that but if if if you're telling me steve that the

clifford simmons line experiment whatever them taking it will draw more out of obey kubel and aston reese and eventually make them better players great i'm good with that but i am not good with us going well our tough guys are simmons and clifford we're playing the bruins in the first round yeah i no one wanted to hear this from me in the summer no one wanted to hear it it's an 82 game season and you're 82 games simmons would have been on the opening roster not necessarily in the lineup but he would have been on the opening roster had the waivers and cap situation been a little more tenable that dude was on waivers both of them were yeah actually um but they 100 would have kept them as an extra exactly for this situation wasn't that nice it was cool

wasn't that good i loved it felt great it was the best game all year and i agree with you you probably shouldn't be playing every game you should definitely be playing that game i do a couple things i want to mention when marner was had his head smashed into the board and it was pretty it was a pretty nasty how the fuck isn't that a penalty well so i think it was say that about eight things the exit no i agree the exit made a good point he's like well if you don't call the marner one you can't call the sandin one on perfetti they're both real bad call both it makes sense to call neither yeah no call both call both but yeah but but i think at the time it would have been good you know the leafs answered and they won the game that's great but it would

have been good to see an answer right away on the marner thing no i i agree with that i think i think there needed to be and i'm not talking about people like what do you want them to do take a stupid penalty no i want you to grab the guy's collar and shake him around a little bit and go next time your head's coming off well that's what i want and who like that game was rough and tumble and well it's because of simmons and clifford right no no the jets still drove the physical aspect of that game absolutely because there was that dirty hit or unfortunate incident whatever you want to call it i don't know if damel is a dirty player but the game didn't get chippy until the leafs got the lead leafs got the lead they crashed him sewn off they try to take tavaris's

fucking head off thank goodness that hit didn't connect they run over uh nick and then all of a sudden there's your first fight sandin hits perfetti there's your second fight the jet still drove it so as much as that was a step in the right direction in terms of sticking up for yourself it still wasn't good enough and to be fair about the Marner play it kind of happened on the side where

there was and there was action in front of the net if you remember where it happened because it happened a long before it was in the corner so I wouldn't like maybe the Leafs just didn't see it as it happened because for those instances you need to react right away I don't give a shit you see Mitch Marner down on his knees you uh Rich

Klune ask questions later right but they might not have seen the actual hit like the players on the ice i don't care no but if they don't see it then you then there's no reaction you turn around and if you see marner down yeah and i'm saying that they might not have seen the whole thing of it like he might have he they might have thought he slipped into the boards like that it was kind of off the side of the play the robertson one there was such a reaction because it happened right there the puck was going and everybody saw it so i'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt for not immediately going after that kid's such a tough nut in that oh yeah yeah oh yeah that's that was a hard he's

been you know he's been rocked like four times this year dallas got him a couple times he doesn't give a shit it was really close to his head i was scared yeah for a little dude yeah it was close i don't remember who i think it was josh morrissey i mean you got to give him credit for oh well i was gonna say at least it was clean but it was called interference yeah it was borderline he thought the guy was going to get the puck and i wouldn't call it dirty i listen winnipeg jets fans i said it in the lfr i'll say it again i have a buddy who's a jets fan and a ref and i could hear him from here i uh i don't understand how the leafs get out of the riley morrissey fight not down a man with a power play no no they no no that was even strength oh okay

And then after the Sandin thing, not only did the Leafs come out of it with a power play, but Sandin had a positive penalty differential. Yeah, Sandin was on the bench. Because he drew one. Yeah. Dude. That was bad. It was bad refereeing.

Yeah, it was. Yeah. Well, and then Simmons hitting Shifley late, and then Shifley coming back and cross-checking him, but Simmons getting the only penalty. There's a little payback, I guess. Yeah, that's... But it's late in the game for that. It was a little even up.

It was early enough in the third that it should have made a difference. Or could have made a difference, I should say. But it's just, it's not even just the calls were bad. It's the Leafs get their insurance marker on the ensuing power play. Do you remember when the ref kicked the puck to the Bruins player? Yes, I do. Yeah, I do remember that. The ref who kicked the puck to the Bruins player was one of the refs in that game.

Was it Graham Skelleter or Corey Sovret? Corey. Wow, you know the damn ref name is Skelleting the Ref. You need to keep track of that. Yeah, you're right. so this is a thing before you get your point this is a thing that's huge in uh english soccer like soccer football or in the premiership they uh they track the referees one for for betting lines because there's a lot of advantages there and they know how the games go differently depending on what

what referee you have and it's a thing that we're starting to pick up in north america it's happening a lot in football uh in terms of flags that are being called but it's kind of i know the nhl hates scouting the ref and now and now people like steve dangle are up on it and they're bringing up who's reffing and there was a huge home uh no away team advantage with cory that you mentioned in your lfr which is that's bizarre right so that's an anomaly that you keep track of because you're like okay how is this game gonna go uh like i'm trying to look it up here it is so just for today right uh october 23rd um we got the kraken at blackhawks was that yesterday it doesn't matter anyway for the refs they have how many games they've done this year they have how many regular

season games they had last year they have career regular season games and playoffs first nhl game the date birthplace goals per game power plays per game penalties per game penalty minutes per game percentage of penalty uh for the home team uh holy shit more penalty for the road home team win percentage uh home team record etc etc so and this is why the corey servette thing uh was a big deal so just just looking at the two refs for the seattle chicago game because they're the two guys at the top of the website we have justin saint pierre and steve casari well steve casari has been around forever justin saint pierre has more games holy shit okay so the home win percentage for justin saint pierre is 68 that's high that's high right for steve kazari it's 57 which is more

in line with where it probably should be well home teams do win more games i mean it's an 11 discrepancy that's pretty ridiculous right um cory savrettes was 46 the home team has a losing record now there are a number of factors that go into that maybe he officiated a bunch of games where the home team sucked oh my god but but how many games how many games has he done for to have a 46 it should come out in the wash you should be at least like low 50s you know what i mean on either side i thought that was interesting so listen uh i'm not necessarily criticizing those guys i'm not saying the home team should have a better record or i want to you should cater to the home team i am however i want to bring up a comment though i want to bring up a comment though

yeah on hockey night in canada if i'm not mistaken kevin bx actually said you can't criticize the ref i didn't see that well no that was in the i believe in the second intermission or right after the game this week yeah and he said well you can't really criticize the refs and i and i'm wondering is it that they can't criticize the refs or is it that well refereeing is going to change from game to game so you can't really criticize it because you got to leave no doubt and well the old hockey out what was the context the context i think it was they were talking about i believe uh the perfetti sandin hit and the morrissey morgan riley and the thing that led to that and the more and you know um and the uh mitch marner hit from behind underratedly simmons bumping into his man

before the game winning goal yeah i thought that was just two guys colliding but i understand why the jets were upside for sure especially because that penalty's been called against the leafs before well so you know all that to say like i was like and i've heard i've heard people on that broadcast backtrack any sort of criticism against the refs too and i'm just is it is it because like fans aren't stupid right we can see this uh but you don't see it a lot on the broadcast about the about like you don't see a lot of and jesse brought it up like they're talking about it in english soccer you don't see a lot of any discussion about the refs at all ironically i was trying to calm things down uh because leaf fans were dreading graham skilleter being an official

because sheldon because graham skilleter i want to say had one maybe two particularly bad games with the leafs and sheldon keith said fuck you graham and he got fined for it yes i do remember that which yeah you you can't just say fuck you to the ref and then use their name because like listen you can scream at the ref uh you can have heated discussions that's quite personal so i don't have a problem with with keith uh in that regard but uh like leaf fans are like oh man it's an automatic loss like no the leafs have a winning record for the last like three or four years running and i know this because of scouting the refs amazing website they're not paying me to say this but they should um they they uh they have a winning record with this guy for the last several

years running and they probably should because they've been one of the best regular season teams over that stretch and if they had a losing record with him that would be an anomaly that would stand out but they don't they don't guys he's just another guy relax stop picking on graham fuck you graham not not actually though okay um i want to move on to a couple other things before we bring on s here so it's important that we we get through these next few uh tavaris absolute beast this season that tip was spectacular i don't know what kind of kale smoothies he's drinking these days but whatever it is he got a lot of shit last year and boy i hope this continues i know we're seven games in but he's looking like the tavaris who's who's kind of a pain in the ass and you

know by the way against the coyotes he got his 900th career point nobody talked about yeah yeah no they did the little gif post on leaf's twitter it's oh it always happens in a losing effort eh it's like matthews gets four goals leaves lose like it was in a it was in a frenzied comeback effort so i get that also 900 uh a thousand a thousand okay that's that's the we'll talk about that the last thing i want to hit before i go to the next thing ilia samsonov 936 save percentage now do we expect to stay there no but what is it that this goalie is doing right right now that's leading to this he makes the first save nearly every time and against the caps in his first game yeah there's a couple of those were touched a couple of those

goals were really bad but against the jets he made the first save literally every single time including the goal he actually gave up so some goalies are better at redirecting rebounds than others other goalies are just taught make the save figure out figure out all the rest later that was a criticism of james reimer um you know he would make all these saves he would face like 40 45 shots a game and one of the criticisms is well yeah because every shot on goal is actually three because he would bat it down and it would be there what i always argued is okay so clear the goddamn rebound play to your goalie strengths you know he's going to make the first save be there to clear it the the reason the leafs got scored on on the first one is pierre luke dubois

had two completely uncontested shots including the rebound for the rest of the game the rebounds were there but so were the Leafs and they were there to clear it and I think it's a good match so far well that's a pretty simple directive right defensively uh just clear the rebound just clear the rebound play hard in front of your own net and get rid of the fucking puck the one thing it's not rocket science the one thing I will say is I hope Sam Sonoff stops handling the puck please stop he's got to stop doing the same line say the line if you're a goaltender 10 the goal he is in terms of uh goalies playing the puck he's got to be bottom 10 he's so bad the whole nhl please fucking stop maybe nhl history it's like as the announcer

as chris cuthbert beautifully he said it's an adventure every time he touches the puck it's an absolute adventure and listen you can be a good goalie while not being good at playing the puck pecorino that dude might end up in the hall of fame miserable puck handler holy shit yeah uh anyway that would be my only criticism of samson that backward save looked pretty cool but it just didn't need to stay in your fucking neck what are you doing oh my god the leafs have been there for i wonder how many more goals against there would be if the Leafs hadn't had so many timely blocks we know Matthews saved a goal at least once we know Hall has saved a goal at least once and I think about those things and I'm like oh where would Samsonov

have been um no I think that's called a good hockey team I was like where are you going with this that's called blocking shots where I'm going with it is the like those are committed Help your fucking goal. Yeah, that's what every team does. Vasilevsky doesn't play behind an ECHL team. Right. You know what I mean? The Lightning help him out.

If Matthews is going to block a puck, then whoever the hell else you are on the team, you're blocking pucks now. The rest of them are better. And they do. They do. But when you see the commitment at that level, your 60-goal score is doing it.

It does make a difference. I know it's early in the season. you're starting to see the leafs process come out and they're trying to play a certain way and that certain way is different from the way they have played and there are going to be struggles there i still don't excuse the coyotes loss there was just a complete lack of effort there but the way they're winning games is the way you need to win in the playoffs hooray um i want to throw this out there too the leafs are at a plus 1.1 uh goals saved above expected so far this year as a team that's even with the murray first game in shelgren washington

is a full seven games behind them and they're not russian machine tweeted it yeah sorry seven no no seven places behind them they're only uh they're at 0.08 uh sorry sorry 0.8 big difference but the shocking one for me at negative 8.8 the minnesota wild wow what is this goal save above expectations in all situations. So they're goaltending. Well, that's because of their first game. Didn't Fleury let in like seven or something like that? They lost like 7-1 in the first game. It's

a little skewed right now. Early season goalie stats are... That's why it's fun. Can we not have fun? No, I know. I'm not debating. But guys, I'm just trying to have some fun. It's October. I don't know if that was a lot of fun. Don't you guys know that that will not be the way it is in April? Duh. It's fun.

Some context to the numbers would be nice. your children played like i think 12 games last year but one of them he got murdered and it ruined his numbers last season he was an 888 i promise you he wasn't that bad but he got he did that was a bad game i remember that one uh that one game uh okay i want to ask you guys something so he's injured now but you're i slavskovsky when you start a player who's like a first round pick and you're playing them to start the season in the nhl what do you normally want to do uh play him and surround him with talent right so slavkovsky has had 10 minutes and 34 seconds 9 37 12 41 952 14 26 that's really good and then he got it that's good right like good good solid

start right you know they tried to get him more ice time in a game that was out of hand right in that last one right shane right six minutes 650 636 842 551 what are we doing guys what are we doing here and like i understand the argument uh you know maybe you can say he hasn't earned it he had that one game where he goes fucking rocked um wayne simmons played 10 minutes yeah man for the least yeah well shane white played six one of them's an nhl player and shane wright needs to go back or or is dave haxtell just not good at this like you gotta give him a chance to play right the right hasn't looked good are the kraken just arbitrarily trying to get nine free games out of a player before they send them back yeah and they've been because

he's been healthy scratched a couple times they're trying to extend that nine game window that they have what do you do i don't i don't think this is what i'm talking about though what what's going on over there this is a guy you picked fourth overall he's he's an extremely important whether he's playing well right now or not he's his success is vital to your success as a franchise you got to do what's best for the player and i'm positive it's not this it can't this is not the right move it can't be no that it's a it's a waste of uh like the the nine games because he's not playing anyways it's it's weird that they're doing it this way right i think he's only got one point it's kind of weird he's even got that he didn't even get he hasn't even gotten any special teams

time not even put them on the power play and i have to say like is seattle that good are they that deep you can't put shane right on the power play and this is why i ask dave haxtell and flyers fans back me up on this one questionable coaching decisions forever and ever amen even with the leaves i was like ah but then then we get to the tumultuous relationship between every gm and every coach ever where coaches are like listen it's not my job to develop these guys it's my job to try to win hockey games and if given the choice i don't think dave haxtell would have him on the team clearly he doesn't want him on the team but but how what does that do to an 18 year old player when your coach is like fuck off i'm playing you six minutes a game like think about the dave

haxtell's got to think about his own job here too because he they had a god-awful year last year and you got the fourth overall pick and you're trying if he's actually trying to send a message upstairs my message would be what success have you ever had at the nhl level you were terrible with the flyers the leaves were disappointing when you were an assistant coach there and then and now you're the head coach in seattle what resume what great sparkling resume dave haxtell do you have wow it's it's it's well and wasn't his whole thing supposed to be he's good at working with young guys i don't know because of his success in college don't know yeah i i just i i man if i was ron francis i'd be flipping my shit right this is a run he can fix it with a phone call

you're going to kingston the the point about hackstall is it it's really important i think uh adam it's a really good point because i was looking for this quote from hackstall after one of the games uh last week where shane wright only played it was on friday where shane wright only played like six minutes and and 33 seconds or something like that uh so hackstall says we've talked a lot about a real good plan for him develop developmentally we're making sure he's got some real good positive opportunities to be in the lineup that quote is just not factual he's playing him on the fourth line so he's not playing with highly skilled players and he's not he's playing him less than seven minutes every single game of his nhl career haxell's lying to

the media saying about he's putting in a position even if the argument is we're putting him in the lineup we want him to be effective on the shifts where he is on the ice and he and we're challenging him to be effective but he's not being effective even if that's the thought process how many times are you willing to do that before you mercifully let the kid go yeah or just like try him up in the lineup yeah yeah with the nine games try stuff like if you have a back-to-back play him more on the second half if you have a weaker opponent chicago maybe you give them a little bit more ice instead of less this guy hasn't had a winning record i'm looking at his record with philly it was actually it's better than i thought the reason he got let go is remember they went to

the they finished third they they were out they were out in the first round in 1718 and then in 1819 they were just trashed to start the year he hasn't had a winning record since 1718 his his winning percentage his last year in philly which is a half year 452 then last year in seattle it was a 366 because they were bad and now it's now i know it's seven games but it's a 429 again what come on here's here's the one experiment i would love to do and maybe you uh gave me an idea please do remember i did that article about paul maurice's coaching career how he never had a good goalie uh dave haxtell he didn't get he got he had carter hart but he didn't have good carter hart well he didn't have good carter hart one year because they did it oh he did 42 and 26 yeah

yeah after that right yeah he was he well but carter hart's been a since then well he's been bad what came first the chicken or the egg right and then you know grubauer gets nominated for the vesna probably shouldn't have been but he got nominated for the vesna goes to seattle and he's immediately terrible i'm wondering what the correlation is here when does when does seattle have that conversation well i think they gotta have it now i mean listen they had he okay fine he was better in philly than i'm than i can remember but i can remember those flyers years being a bit tumultuous he he honestly he doesn't have the resume to justify this treatment if you don't want shane right you got to tell your gm and if your gm says too bad you're keeping him

you better play him yeah what is ron francis doing he's sitting on his hands here he needs to make something happen with the guy he drafted yeah you're putting this on hacksaw i ultimately see this is ron francis's problem ron francis wants him to play they'll tell him to play him send him to kingston yeah if he go get 25 minutes at night playing first line center in kingston and light up the league i don't know light up the ohl it doesn't make sense yeah literally it doesn't make sense having him there playing seven minutes and then if they are gonna like listen i think we all agree that this is gonna end up in chain right getting sent back to the oh yes yes should not be sending a player back to the ohl in november shit or get off the pot yeah they've been they've been

delay they've been healthy scratching him so that they can delay these nine is it nine or eight i believe it's nine it's nine games yeah and then on 10 the first year of the um it kicks if if they send him down after nine games his elc slides which i think that's what they're gonna do fine stop extending this it's whether you send them down now or three games from now it's the same outcome is he eligible for the world juniors oh definitely yeah okay that's i think that's an avenue he's got to take as well go play in the world junior i think even if he sticks with the kraken they should send him to the world yes is that what you're saying both like i don't care like either way just get him some ice time in some competitive environment that's not seattle

and uh i don't know if you guys saw his first career point no most underwhelming first career point ever so whatever you got a point in the show it happened uh in the second period he had like tipped a puck that eventually went into the net and it wasn't registered on the score sheet that he got an assist on it so he didn't officially get the point until like the third period when they recorrected the scorecard and we're like oh shane right actually tipped that it probably doesn't even have the puck i don't know if they i assume they somebody went back to the tape and tried to find the puck but like who knows if the puck went over the glass or whatever whatever happened but he didn't know he got his first career point until like 20 minutes after into

the next period that's fucking shane right i feel for you dude it's an awful start to your career so much man yeah you're playing six minutes you have one point your first career points delayed because of scoring error someone someone save shane man yeah save this man get him back to kingston what the fuck okay listen been a good one shall we bring ass on yeah