The Steve Dangle Podcast - Hurrican or Hurrican't | May 26, 2025

Episode Date: May 26, 2025

On this episode of The Steve Dangle Podcast, 00:00 Edmonton vs Dallas 54:00 Florida vs Carolina 1:24:00 Treliving's expanded role 1:39:00 The Matthew Knies contract Visit this episode's sponsors: For all the odds and to learn more visit ⁠https://betmgm.com/DANGLE⁠. Any opinion expressed is not advice, a promise or suggestion that increases the chance of winning. Gambling can be addictive, please play responsibly. To learn more, visit: ⁠https://igamingontario.ca/en/player/responsible-gambling⁠ Or if you have concerns about a gambling problem, call ConnexOntario 1-866-531-2600. Must be 19+ or older to play. Subscribe to the sdpn YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@sdpn?sub_confirmation=1Join - SDP VIP: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0a0z05HiddEn7k6OGnDprg/join Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/thestevedanglepodcast Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sdpvip/subscribe - Follow us on Twitter: @Steve_Dangle, @AdamWylde, & @JesseBlake Follow us on Instagram: @SteveDangle, @AdamWylde, & @Jesse.BlakeJoin us on Discord: https://discord.com/invite/MtTmw9rrz7 For general inquiries email: [e-mail] Reach out to https://www.sdpn.ca/sales to connect with our sales team and discuss the opportunity to integrate your brand within our content! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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download that. TaskRabbit.ca. Code Dangle. Two in five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself friends and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research together we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer register today at pmcf walk.ca the steve dangle podcast with your host steve dangle adam wild and jesse blake all right so i just i i just have one question based on what we saw yesterday a short show them

one this guy this guy sorry uh i i have a question guys do the do the dallas stars know they're done yet yo no they don't do they know they don't know no they don't know we know but they don't know they don't know carolina knows carolina knows for sure for sure they know you can see it in their eyes they're dead inside is it worse to know or not to know i think it's worse to know yeah because then you know because the execution's coming like if florida doesn't win tonight i will be i will literally be gobsmacked like there's not been a single moment where carolina's had the series whereas i look at dallas i'm like they've won a couple periods at least florida's a bunch of times in recent memory had a chance to win a series and not done it yeah but

remember aho took out reinhardt and yes and they're pissed they are pissed they're so pissed dallas dallas could conceivably you know win a few more periods like you said win a few more games they might even steal this thing they might they're only down to one in the series it's not that big a deal carolina's toast they're so toast they're toast jesse do you think dallas is done no i think they're done i think that's a six or seven game series like i i think dallas is gonna win at least another game in this series hints being out changes things a lot i saw a stat yesterday that shocked me um wyatt johnston has the worst plus minus in these playoffs he's minus 16 that's such a good player what the hell happened uh it's just bad i mean at

certain point it it might be down to your play like when when plus minus gets goofy you do have to have a conversation well yeah like it is plus minus but also and like he's been playing with jamie ben there's guys on some of the eliminated teams if they had kept playing they'd uh they'd pass that by a mile oh yeah yeah like you only get to minus 16 because you're in the third round yes right it's a tricky one it's a great combination of bad and good yeah like you had to do enough good things that you're here but yeah you're minus 16 most points to three games of a conference final in the last 30 post seasons got it so i'll work uh i'll work one more time uh most points in the first three games of a conference final last 30 post seasons so last 30

years okay okay um and i'm gonna work my way from five to one and there's three people tied at number five uh or sorry three people three people tied it yeah number five so braden point 2020 lightning nikita kucherov 2020 lightning ryan nugent hopkins 2025 oilers okay they all have seven points in three games ryan nugent hopkins is seven points through this is what i'm saying okay jeff carter 2014 kings eight points remember when jeff carter became a king it was like oh wow they can score i guess they're gonna win the cup aren't they yeah right uh and then gino malkin has the most nine points uh through three games of a conference final 2009 penguins so trying to ryan nugent hopkins is reminding the world that hey i was a number one overall pick too dude and like he

doesn't even the oilers are doing this so by committee it's it's frightening like they have it it's fascinating to me that we could be setting the stage dallas isn't done dallas isn't done carolina i'm not going to say the same thing dallas isn't done but we could have the stage set for a really unique stanley cup final rematch because i don't think either of these teams look the same at all they're different they're different i mean the panthers have freaking marsh and yeah right so that's a big change there were big changes to their decor and the oilers like mcdavid his first goal last night i was like damn that's that's mcdavid man that's that's what he does and then the the thing comes up on the screen mcdavid four i'm like that was his fourth

goal of the and then he got number five hyman got two he only got to number five like it's not like everyone's just their top guys are completely blowing the doors off this is a by committee effort dry saddles line mates are pod Colson and Kapanen those guys

are they're like cast off heading into this season they were replacement level NHL players yeah like first first round what a lot of people would consider busts busts who are like probably on their last chance to play in the league Kapanen definitely Kapanen for sure and like Pod Colson is maybe a little younger so maybe not

yeah and they look dynamite they look great you go all the way down the lineup they're playing really disciplined structured hockey like I don't recognize Evan Bouchard from like I'm starting to understand why Oilers fans were like ah well you only saw the clips well yeah the clips were dog shit that's why i was so gobsmacked by what i saw but the oilers are just playing really frustrating lock them down like forget bouchard the right side is bouchard stetcher clingberg that is a final four and clingberg scored d court yes yeah i'm not gonna lie to you i'm i'm still mad about people saying he's obviously cooked no either they're wrong i'm still mad about that like because he's a defenseman oh look at him he's

ass yeah no he's no he's broken his body is it hurts it hurts to like live it hurts to play hockey it hurts to get out of bed in the morning it probably hurts to sit down it's his hips are fucked you know what ended his leafs career was it a bad hit was it a uh you know did he fall and it was a plane ride he played a good game against the Canucks we saw it they boarded a plane to Sweden that's it he never played again never not once he a plane ride ended his career in Toronto but you fix him up a little bit us by not re-signing here at least wanted to well and then he betrayed us well we fixed him and then he went to Edmonton well he wanted he wanted he didn't want the pressure of toronto so he signed in the tiny hamlet of edmonton where they

don't really care where they don't care about hockey they don't stand out in a big square by the thousands standing room by the thousands with edmonton building with edmonton edmonton paint their faces giant chains and dude there were like six stars fans in that entire building like they pack the place no i'm so impressed by what i've seen from the oilers and like i really uh don't i don't even think the stars have played poorly no they're playing great just really good i don't think they're playing ranting in enough i know there's a thought out there that he's not playing well enough i don't know if you have miko ranting and you're missing like one of your biggest players like play them till the wheels fall off yeah double shift them and they didn't

really do that until late um ottinger hasn't been good enough stewart skinner was unreal like i really i want to know i want to study the oilers how do all of these somewhat like they have some average players who are playing fantastic or like good players who are prone to having off nights the stewart skinner stat makes no sense he's four and four He has allowed one goal in the four wins. Total. And like 14 in the others. It doesn't make any sense.

They're so much fun to watch. I really, really, really enjoy watching the Oilers because I don't know what to expect any given shift. Jesse, I have to ask you, if there's a player on the Oilers roster that has impressed you the most this postseason, if there's one that really stands out to you, who would it be?

well like how how don't we just praise connor mcdavid every day of the week like it's it's so much depth but like sometimes the easiest answer is is the correct one like connor mcdavid and leon dryside are are both one two in playoff scoring yeah like that's every everywhere up and down the lineup they're getting so much scoring like evander kane if you want somebody outside of the top guys like evander kane not playing all year stepping into the playoffs and being i think the most dynamic player on the ice outside of the top guys every time he's out there he looks like a slam dunk top six player like you want even though he's not playing in their top six but you want a guy who can look florida in the eye and say i can do everything you can do and

i'm not scared of you evander kane is that human being yeah he has all of the attributes to be a great playoff player but like for me at the end of the day it starts with those two individuals And I think the way they're playing frees up the rest of the roster, like how they're creating and making it easy for their teammates. And like I said, if they're getting so much depth, but those guys are still leading the way in terms of points, like they are making it easy to get depth scoring and get a completely balanced lineup of scoring. It's been unbelievable to watch. mcdavid uh in this series it it reminds me of uh crosby in 2016 against the sharks because that was the year everyone wanted phil kessel to win the con smith and i think he led the penguins in scoring um and oh man he got robbed he got robbed ah it would have been fun

if he won he didn't get robbed and the reason he didn't like it was so much better to see this in person i was in game one or at game one in pittsburgh and they're the body language change in every shark on the ice when crosby has the puck oh shit or shit or shit or fuck out and they're just doomed then they know they're doomed and they know we're not getting anything productive done this shift nothing good is happening it's just survival mode and we're trying to prevent the worst from happening every time mcdavid's out there just try to keep it away from him yeah that's basically the best you can do i was trying to remember the uh it wasn't the the evan bouchard goal i think it was the evan bouchard goal the first one the the the one he

scored i think his the like second goal of the game whatever like mcdavid's out there creating space i don't even think he touches the puck but like his presence there where he's on the ice and i think it's nude who has it just him being out there affects the play oh yeah you know like watching that whole breakout like sequence happen mcdavid's presence sucks in defense and evan bouchard comes back from from the blue line slaps at home and i think that was the wobbly one right yeah we barely got a piece of it it goes right right right in the goal like mcdavid doesn't get anything on the stat sheet about that goal but he's there he affects the play and same thing with that clingberg goal at the end on the power play there's they're on the power play but

they're he's drawing two guys oh yeah and then clingberg gets an open and you're right to put two guys that's dry saddle sorry with the puck that's what i meant like i didn't say dry saddle you you i don't know you take your chances yeah yeah i mean and and honestly if you're playing the odds you probably want to take your chances with those two yeah uh and shutting them down because you you i you hope that you can shut down here's the thing watching the oilers for me and i'm gonna make it about the leafs because that's what we need to do uh is is it's such a a reminder of why you don't run this back there's a gap like anybody that's watching the panther series or seeing the panther scores and going see the leafs were close no no because because here's what

happens you've got the leafs you shut down their top six and their bottom six gets caved edmonton you shut down their top two guys their bottom six comes through and it's because it's not four guys making that kind of money it's two and you've got a bunch of guys in the five to seven range who are effective right you can we've talked about this for years that middle middle ground of money you can really get into a lot of trouble with bad contracts in that area but you look at i mean evander kane i think has since re-signed his contract like it's not a big number it's not the it's not the um it's not the sharks contract no and then there's you know hyman's got the 5.5 which has you know gotten a lot of play in toronto of course um and you've got you've got a bunch of

guys in that range who are very very useful and allow the oilers to get favorable matchups for those guys when the top line guys were you know connor mcdavid's only got his fourth and fifth could could nudge be a top line winger on most other teams could he could he be a first or second line center even on a lot of other teams i i don't know we'll never know but like he plays his role next to those guys incredibly well and was happy to take his five and a half six million bucks and how did he stay in that game uh yeah i have no idea how he stayed in that game liam ambitial um i don't i don't think it was malicious intent um in fact it even looked like he tried to slow him down but like that that big fella wrecked him and like the trainer

all his teammates on the bench everyone's like are you freaking okay and he's just like yeah i'm fine i'm fine like uh nuge he's all these years into his career still has a baby face but he is like a really underratedly tough nut remember when he tuned up justin hall no oh it was so embarrassing like bless bless justin for answering the bell but he got his ass what like i don't remember this very specific hit on justin hall no no it wasn't a hit it was a fight oh fight uh no well he got hit a few times during the fight and it wasn't it didn't look like a tickle adam if you remember the evander kane contract he had with the sharks that was the whole dispute because they terminated it over the i think it was the covid situation like lied about it or whatever

and that's that was the seven he was making then now he's making he sounded like that bridge little thing with the oilers to play for the rest of the year and then now he's making 5.1 and through next season too it's a good deal great deal that's a great contract 5.1 that was ltir the entire yeah they just got for free yeah yeah this is fine well one of the things alan and i talked about on Agent Provocateur this past weekend was Alan thinks because the cap is expanding, a lot of teams are not going to spend right to it, but you're going to have a lot of veteran guys

who take the first half of the season off and rehab injuries or work out or whatever, and then they join teams as like a free ad at trade deadline that you can sign rather than having to trade for it. Well, why not? It's the Rob Gronkowski. Every year at the end of the Super Bowl

when the Patriots won he'd like retire and then he'd come back in like December to get fine-tuned up for the playoffs yeah and it's he doesn't need to do training camp and the first half of the season who cares and it's barely even a new concept Marc Messier is greatest leader in the history of hockey but like we keep getting told that they need an award after him then guess who decides guess who awards the award every year the leader the leader himself he's the leader is literally a single guy who picks a whole trophy yeah i like this okay now imagine this story austin matthew skips training camp because he just doesn't like it eric carlson did that this year yeah eric yeah but carlson's not the captain right right like imagine you know oh

mcdavid carlson was hurt hurt i mean it's conceivable that he would have been hurt but oh yeah connor mcdavid skips training camp because he doesn't feel like it that's what Messier used to do he used to just be like man so like it's this has been around in that form but it hasn't been around in yeah I'm just gonna miss a month or two well but I think you look at what a guy like John Klingberg brings uh and what Corey Perry has brought down he didn't sign mid-season but I feel like teams like the Oilers uh are gonna take advantage of that because it's like you call up like let's say let's say it's you know in this particular case like Max Pacioretty right let's say he's he's not going to play the full year he's going to play half the year like

alan sort of mentioned like he did this season like he kind of did what literally happened okay yeah so imagine uh he's like oh okay i get to pick uh between three or four different teams that all are going to go to the cup who's not going to the oilers for that oh i know who's not going to join that team well there's a reason why like i do think it's funny uh that you know a guy like cory perry like everyone who ends up in that sort of situation where all right you got kicked off your team or whatever like they end up in edmonton because they're like well i might as well try to win a cup you know do do i want to i don't know like the edmonton thing and the tax and the weather and i don't know oh i don't have a job right now and it's like in the middle of

winter and who plays there connor mcdavid and connor i could be convinced yeah and a lot of guys were you know one one thing you got to credit the Oilers with is they brought a lot of guys in over the last you know year or two and they stayed yes Perry stayed Henrik stayed Stetcher stayed trying to think of the other guys they acquired who just opted to they didn't go anywhere yeah they stayed um and Bouchard's gonna be on that list he's not going anywhere it's also worth mentioning that the weather in edmonton has been spectacular uh it's been amazing yeah but they don't know that when they sign uh no but like the the spring is actually not a bad time to be there um good weather here stunk stinks this year way warmer in edmonton than it is here freaking

beautiful today this yeah but it's still cool like edmonton it's like 25 degrees and sunny the uh the only one recently that i'm trying to think that didn't work out for the oilers uh would be the duncan keith deal or what they traded for duncan keith well he just retired and it made and it was bad it was a big thing he went to the final four he played one season with them and then they played like that was the 22 season yes so yeah they won a couple rounds and then he then that was it i'd kill for that yeah yeah i'll take it sign me up for that saying like it wasn't like duncan keith stuck around for a little they got the guy truly at the end this time and yes the examples were given like usually they can nail it where they get cory perry it's like cory

pierce look at like i guess how long can he go would they get evander kane he's still great and he's gonna go for a long time and the duncan keith one wasn't as successful as the one year and that was kind of it um uh oh god what was i about to say sorry i slept on the train on the way here i was just woke up yeah uh like they've done they've done an extremely good job they've done it oh here's what i was gonna say ekholm yes they look as tight as they do and they don't even have matias at home i don't know like he doesn't even he doesn't even need to play this series right now maybe not imagine they're able to get to the cup final without echo i would have never would have never agreed to that like before the playoffs oh steve do you think no

what you can keep in mind i thought the kings would beat them but the second they beat the kings i'm like all right they're going to the cup like i just have such a hard time uh picturing anything other than a rematch yeah stars could realistically do something like for sure they can carolina might win game four i don't think they're gonna but they might they might it's hockey it's hockey they might but i think we all are pretty convinced as to how this ends unless like what what do the stars need to do they have to find a way to score they're not scoring um they're you know they're getting some chances here pucks are skipping over sticks and everything and they need jake ottinger to be just way better they need him to be better

he's been bang average maybe less it's not good enough was there skinner was way better was there a reason nashville had to move off of at home at the time like they got a first reed shaffer and tyson berry go and come into them for echo and that was dave and retained that was and they retained a little bit for a long time it was the waning david poil years i think they were doing a quick retool and then yet last year they were supposed to be bad and then they went on that 12 game winning streak or 15 game winning streak or whatever made the playoffs and then everybody myself included was like well i guess they're good now yeah and then they were bad again this year so it almost like kind of that in retrospect it looks weird but i think that they were actually

like they were trying to suck yeah because like it was at the end of um who was the guy wasn't at the end of pecorine's thing and oh like isn't that the end of his deal and like uc soros was gonna take over and ask rob was gonna be there and like you know i'm just looking reed schaefer played well like he had 14 points in 19 games but that's all he played so he must have got injured oh oh heavens i don't know about that deal it's just it seems odd in retrospect considering what nashville did this past off season where they're like hey we're we're really good and we're going for this whole thing but i guess at the time they weren't trying to be good and they didn't think they were good and they like that 23 season when they made that deal they finished three points

out of the playoff spot dude like it's not it's not like they were a bottom feeder and they were trying to sell i'm trying so hard not to interrupt the preds like i feel like we haven't mentioned them in a while and obviously it's the playoffs and they're not in the playoffs but like in every off-season conversation i just want to be like the preds might do something silly like i'm i'm so oh the draft is gonna be friggin barry trot season and it's gonna be so fun he's gonna do so much weird shit what is he gonna do weird shit adam it's gonna be awesome oh i can't wait i can't wait till he does it was there potentially a contract thing there jesse did like the oilers resign at home no they haven't resigned them since no no that was the weird thing

is the preds were retained i think it was three years of his deal but it was like a quarter million it was like this nothing amount but it claims a retention spot though yes so it eats up a retention spot for it was like three years that's a stupid deal it wasn't clever it was it wasn't clever the what was happening at the time for the context because yeah clearly i didn't remember um what was going on at the time the preds were in full rebuild mode that 23 season because they made the tanner geno deal oh to okay so they've been full rebuild going for it full rebuild yeah that's that is accurately describing their last three years kind of what i i'm i'm getting to and like laying out here as we remember everything that went on in the 23

season at the trade deadline they thought they were cooked they were done they moved tanner genoa to tampa they get a hole they got it that was a crazy trade that was a really good trade they move ekholm to edmonton they're selling all the pieces they can they get reacher they get that first round pick they get barry back who's just the salary you know matching and all that stuff puts that first round and and schaefer and then the next season as you said adam was a surprise yes they sneak into the playoffs they lose in that first round pretty competitive series in a really close series yeah yeah and that kind of fooled them into thinking that off season the 24 off season this past off season we can go for it in a hard way and get stamkos and make all the

shade and marsh or so and and and brady shea too and brady shea and all these they spent a lot of money but they were rebuilding at the 23 trade deadline and we all we all forgot that but but For that moment, we're all like, oh, Barry Trotz is a genius. There's no way that this 15-game winning streak is not repeatable. Now wait, the Preds got, I think it was five picks. How did they get more for Jeannot than they got for Ekholm? How did they get more for Jeannot than anyone has gotten for anybody? What are you talking about?

Gretzky didn't get that one. I know, it's true. The first rounder from that trade, they haven't even used yet. That's this year. wow that's part of the reason they have three first this year is because of that trade um oh my god there's all these players that will be a very fun uh trade tree to do one day except for the part where cal foot is in that deal um that part didn't work out dylan mckinnon jason shagabay kevin bicker leo saline walenius and whoever they pick in the first round this year i think like

year to year just kind of spelling this out i think maybe we should think about kind of where the teams were at before they like surprise yeah so considering like like montreal they go on this crazy end of the season run and that sort of stuff and i guess you got to look at the context of the year before and if you actually think they're going to take that step like ottawa a team that made the playoffs this year they were building towards that it wasn't kind of a surprise that they made it so much all they're building towards that like nashville their playoff run last year it's because of the sphere and a really good run mid-season and it comes out of nowhere and that kind of wasn't who they were they were truly the team that snuck that got close in the 23 season

and then snuck in and this year we're kind of see what they actually are right and i okay so i am trying to figure out okay so here's something interesting too okay march 19th 2024 what do we always warn people about when when we talk about how good a team is in the regular season uh all those garbage wins october to december no i always talk about the garbage wins after the playoffs start to solidify oh like buffalo if you're a rebuilding team oh yeah the march Buffalo's like the king of that. Or Vancouver under Boudreaux. You know what I mean?

You know, so I have a tiny baby daughter. She eats these things called puffs. Yeah. And you put them in your mouth and they dissolve. She's eating, but she's not. She's not eating anything. It's just an activity. They're just air.

Yeah. And those wins from March onward, they're just puffs. The teams that get eliminated from the playoffs and all of a sudden they're good. Maybe it's because the games aren't that competitive anymore. The Leafs were that team for half a decade. They might have been a top five marching onward team and never made the playoffs once. Listen, I don't want to be this guy.

But March, because again, I went hard at the Preds for that. They went 13-0-2, right? Holy shit. At the end of this year? No, last year. Oh, you too, Rod. Oh, got it. And guess like it was like it was like March 20th is like when it ended.

So you're talking about a post trade deadline run. The majority of that. It was in the middle of it. Remember, it like screwed their plans. Oh, that's right. And I'm just and I'm thinking like, is there a little bit of that going on there? Like you got it. You can't be fooled by March runs, right?

You got to be careful with that. And I listen, what's clear is that the Preds have committed to a direction. What they could have used. So we had too much Shana plan. they could have used the shanna plan they could have used that we this is our plan and we are not veering from our plan and we'll never veer from our plan not ever not once if they had done if they'd stuck with the plan and they didn't have shea and stamkos and marcia so they would have the most money in the nhl to spend this offseason to do whatever the hell they want right and still

have a lot of money they do tax-free situations but like they sucked now they got three and we're like we're rebuilding they go on a run in 24 they're like we're good they suck in 25 and they're like we might rebuild and then remember they said that yeah can i the the to to compliment them please yes the heist that was the tanner janeau trade yeah oh yeah tanner janeau is a rookie this is a player you want you're insane if you don't want this player 24 goals 17 assists 41 points in 81 games 130 penalty minutes how big is he though 6-2-2-20 that's right nail gun beef beef um so those 41 points in the 203 games since he has 45 it's gone hey you know why because some somebody on bad teams has to score

no gotta be careful of that no you do sorry you do he looked good yeah you know what ryan had a 20 goal season too and then he went to the leafs and they immediately put him on waivers during that season bates pataglia bates pataglia i'm telling you man there there are guys no disrespect to tanners you know he'll find his way and he'll find like he's been around a few times we should create an all one-time 20 goal scorers team oh man guys who only scored 21 baleski on the first line captain by bobby mcmahon yeah let's freaking go bobby mcmahon will get another one Well, he's only got one now. Yeah, I think he'll get it.

Oh, I think that number is going to skyrocket to two. Oh, hey, all right. I hope. Sometimes life throws your curveballs and you don't have time to get to them. And that's where TaskRabbit comes in. And I think you should check this out because here's the deal. One of the things, one of the weird quirks about my condo building is that they use my floor to repel down and clean all the windows, but they never clean my windows.

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Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. Anyway, the Oilers are just, they are sort of breathtaking. Now, for the Dallas Stars, you got Jason Robertson scoring his first, which is, you know, coming off injury, you can kind of understand it. Can we play Jason Robertson discovering that he scored his first goal? Yeah. I don't know.

You guys, have you seen that? No. Because he didn't know. It was a deflection, wasn't it? That's the clip. Give me a second, Matty. All right. Jason Robertson being told that this was his first goal of the playoffs.

I feel pretty good to finally get that first playoff goal for you. they gave me it that's why I was asking oh really I didn't even know that okay no I'm sorry I'm sorry I didn't know that I don't know I don't know I mean whatever I have a lot of scoring chances today and uh hopefully he goes in more thanks cool this guy genuinely didn't know he scored a goal I like that he got

i like that he actually had the like there was a chance for levity after a game like that yes at least for the report he didn't seem too down to be jokey jokey that might have been like the best thing to happen to the stars yes like yeah oh all right all right cool they gave me that all right nice i mean it's good for him to get one like the stars have a bunch of guys who can give more i mean why johnston it's not given nearly enough jason robertson not good enough for you no it's pretty bad uh well and like he's not scoring yeah and not having rupe sucks not having ropey sucks can i can i ask you guys about that we didn't get the chance to talk about the darn oh and i i just i wanted to talk to you guys about that because that happened friday night and

i i do you like obviously pete deborah's comments after the game were well if that had happened to connor mcdavid i'm like yo have i've watched enough connor mcdavid playoff hockey to know that that's objectively not true he doesn't get calls he's only drawn five or six penalties yeah But this postseason. OK, the moment the playoffs begin as a coach, your number one objective isn't video sessions, X's and O's inspiration. It's lying. Yeah, it's being such a liar. Right.

Every one of them is such a liar. The moment the playoffs begin. When people said that that should have been more than two minutes, to be honest, I didn't get that. OK, it's it's really. so like is it difficult tent to injure and they never call intent to injure if you're if it's at someone's ankle i want to just don't do i want to get one thing out of the way right away ropa hints made the trip and then he was on the ice for warm-up and a lot of people were like oh hallelujah he is risen as if he was milking it well i tell you what let's give this guy an academy

award because he didn't play he's injured and you guys are assholes for that here's pete deborah on the darnell nurse slash sure do you have an update on rope and what did you make of that slash um well i'll answer your question with a question does anyone in this room think if connor mcdavid gets carried off the ice like that that it's not a five minute major that's the part where i think he's right oh that's my that's my answer to your question right side third row follow up on that mason marchman said he thought there was intent by garnell on the slash against hints do you well again you know if if if that's 97 carried off the ice in the same situation i think we all know the answer to to what that looks like for us sorry you know what is there an update on

his injury i have to be honest i don't think that's true yeah that's not how the nhl's handle Look at the way the Winnipeg Jets rode Conor McDavid like a pony. You're right. In the Canadian division. Are we kidding? I take it back. Who are we quitting? People are allowed to evolve within 30 seconds.

I changed my mind. Yeah. No, that's not true. But I get what he's saying, which is he wants more for that. I don't know, though, that the league, because the way that they set up like intent to injure, it's always like, did you try to take out his head? Can I tell you where he looks stupid? Where he looks completely stupid?

Sure. Is it Western Conference Finals? Well, it's generally, it's the Western conference finals. Yeah. So Western conference final, you went in front of the media about your guy getting hurt. What'd you do in game three? Besides take a sound beating. Well, that, that part of it for like Mason Marchman was like, well, he better keep his

hat or something like that. And then it proceeds to do nothing. Did you hit anybody? No. Did you fight anybody? No. Did you even get a power play then? I don't think they got a power play.

I will check that. Maybe one. for anybody who hasn't seen the slash here is nurse in front of the net oh it's bad taking a big hack at rupe so it is a two-handed or is it two-handed i don't even know yeah yeah yeah it's two-handed when he connects with him he kind of lets go of one because he whacked him so hard right so dallas had two power plays i don't think it's intent because darnell looked genuinely confused like like what are you doing well like it's funny he didn't like immediately call hints a diver or anything because he's like oh huh he's actually hurt why is he actually hurt

i hit him in the shin guard yeah and i think he got him between the shin guard and the skate tongue yes so we've talked about this i don't know that this is exactly the injury but we've talked about this type of injury before it's a really confusing looking injury and it's more common in like the ufc and mixed martial arts a foot drop where they hit a nerve and it like shuts your foot off like it's really weird um i don't know how painful it is i've never had it um it looks pretty painful right there um but it strikes a nerve and you're just not able to use the thing you're it's not so severe that you're not able to do anything because obviously hints you know he took warm up he's obviously walking around like he's not hobbled but he wasn't good

enough to go for this game i don't know how that happened i'm so confused but here's the thing it's a two-handed slash which is a vicious hard slash and it resulted in a bad way if you high stick someone it's two minutes if you high stick someone and arbitrarily draw blood it's four right because one is oh that's no good but it happens all the time the other well that's no good and it happens all the time but there's blood like it's so arbitrary yep it's so arbitrary and ridiculous but you're taking you're taking a common infraction and you're going because there's blood let's increase the severity of the punishment yes this is a two-handed slash that resulted in an injury this isn't some fourth liner trying to take darnell nurse out of

game this is their number one center going down and not returning to the game that should be more than two minutes should it be five but i don't know if it's if you're gonna call an intent to injure they by the way again like if if if alex petrangelo gets back into the playoffs and comes in and tries to hack off leon drysaddle's arm again he's still not gonna get an intent to injure penalty he's not how about because they only they only do it with head targets i don't I don't know why refs have it in their head that that's what it is. But listen, okay, you think it should be more than two.

What do you call it? How do you... Because then you're looking at intent. And intent is impossible to judge. I don't think so. You two-hand slash someone, you're trying to hurt them. Are you not?

So should there be... Here's an idea. You cross-check someone in the ribs, you're trying to hurt them. Here's a thought. High sticking, if you draw blood, it's four. Yeah. slashing if you use two hands is it four i think so it's a one-handed slash or a two-handed slash

the refs i don't think have that option here they call it no i know but i mean i'm just saying i'm creating a rule no no that's the problem is you're creating a rule like i think it's i think that's a perfectly reasonable outcome there okay you call it five you get to review it the only option they have is to do five or two i think calling that five and having the option for five two or four there makes plenty of sense that's more than two it's very clearly a slash is it a five minute major like i've always said there should be more types of penalties like no one wants to call the five minute major because that's like a death sentence like it's five minutes you could score four goals on the thing we've seen it happen or you could score none but you can score more than

one why does what if it's five minutes and if you score it's it's over you know what if you know why aren't there one minute penalties like why does it have to be two or four there's no three or stuff like that I maybe I'm over complicating a game that is already very complicated and refs have a tough time underratedly and I'm not saying this is why the Oilers won or anything it was going in both directions the refs had a terrible game yep they were bad wasn't that a west macaulay game or am i uh kelly sutherland and eric was eric furlatt oh boy i think it was oh i mean we're in the conference final they're all bad they're all bad that's the mount rushmore of of oh god refs the kelly sutherland eric furlatt and and west macaulay it's all refs with like plus

1200 plus 1500 games played and the more games played you see i guarantee you the worst they are yeah that's how it works they resent the way the game is now compared to when they started in the league so if you see these guys so the rest from last night kelly sutherland began his nhl career in 2000 furlap began in 2001 that means they began officiating at least 5-10 years before that you know so we're talking about they grew up with the 90s whistle yeah maybe even 80s yeah like when did they play because they they probably grew up playing it's probably a violent game yeah and they hate the way it's played today they hate it all the old head hate it like i i am so tired of them faking it they hate it and they don't like um rules they hate them and so they don't call them

but like last night the oilers should have got a delay a game penalty it went out it went out and not off of anybody it went out and they missed it the next shift the oiler score and then they score again it's two nothing now calls get missed all the time cry about it don't maybe don't go down to nothing right um there was a trip on an oiler by a star i think it was jason robertson i don't remember who the oiler was his stick is in in the skate blade automatic every single time nope nope didn't get called they by my count and i can't remember them all off the top of my head i had like four or five missed like missed or just bad calls oh there was a high stick that was called it wasn't a stick it was it was his own stick yep that hit him in the face i think that went

against the oilers maybe that was the one power play uh they had just such a bad game but getting back to Darnell Nurse uh a five minute major seems like too much two minute minor seems like not enough Jesse what did you think I think by the definition of the rule they got it wrong on the ice they called it a five minute major I think they called it correctly initially and then downgrading it to two minutes was the incorrect um ruling by the definition of what's outlined in the NHL rule book NHL rule 61 says a major pellet penalty at the discretion of the referee based on the severity of contact shall be imposed on a player who slashes an opponent when injury occurs a major penalty must be assessed under this rule oh whenever a major

penalty is assessed for slashing a game misconduct penalty must also be imposed thank you to scouting the ref who does some of the best work i think we have in in the nhl circles they always cover this stuff um with great depth and outline everything very clearly i think the refs should have taken rule 61 and understood that when an injury occurs a major penalty must be assessed under this rule it's their discretion to call how severe they think a slashing penalty is they leave that up to the referees which is like yeah you gotta have some discretion on how they call it but i think in that instance we can see a very vicious slash whether he intended to hit him there specifically in the body or not it's away from the play it's a giant hack and it leads

to injury that is a perfect summation of what it is i feel like under what i just read they should call a five minute major 100 and i understand why they didn't slashes like that happen a hundred times a game in front of in front of the net net front battle maybe it shouldn't yes but what did this lead to this led to an injury there are a million slashes there are more cross checks i should say than slashes that happened in front of the net and a lot of that stuff goes uncalled because it's net front paddles but in this instance it was so far away from the play the guy was on the ice injured and then he didn't play the next game yep so the result of a bad outcome is an injury yes and in the definition of the rule they specify that when an injury occurs

a major penalty must be assessed under this rule i don't know how you get away from that i don't know how you how you call it any other way well jesse here go on to the next thing which was what the refs had to say about their call after the game go ahead they don't talk after the games oh okay well here's what their superiors had to say after the game go ahead they don't talk about these oh okay well here's what the department of player safety had to say after the game go ahead they don't they don't say it's a it's not a league it's just it's listen um we're watching the best hockey players in the world compete for a trophy handed out by an alleged commissioner a commissioner of what it isn't a league it's not it's i mean it's it's horrifying having a look at the dallas

uh stat line by the way why johnson's actually a minus 17 after last night good uh matt duchesne is a minus 13 okay i'll get to duchesne in a minute how many points does johnston have eight eight okay how many points does the chain have six because he was snakebit through the first he did score in this series yeah you got a game finally got it finally got it um grandlin by the way has five goals but three of them came in one game in the second round like you got a it's actually kind of crazy like they're they're centered they have an issue at center right they're not getting well they have a bigger one now without rupe yeah they're not getting a lot of good performances out of people and they're still expect good performances yes and there's

and they still have come this far and they still look okay yep it's tough back there though yep it's tough yeah matt duchesne's never been a crazy playoff performance looking back like his best run was with columbus in 1819 where they remember they swept the uh yeah the he has some big playoff moments yeah but like overall but i'm looking at like last year he had six points in 19 games for dallas this year six points in 16 games for dallas so far so he's you know a little bit of that leaf in him and it's funny because the free agent he is a free agent and he's a centerman and they need that oh great you know i i i curious about where dallas is if they don't have the balls to make that ranting and deal like are we talking about we're talking about the winnipeg jets

well you need a game breaker and this is what people have been saying about the hurricanes and i this is why i kind of really liked the ranting and deal for the hurricanes when they got him i was like okay listen they have a huge collection of good to very good players like very few weak links you're going up against the craziest monsters the nhl has to offer and i just don't think you can send wave after wave of very good at them and ironically that's sort of the dallas stars it's wave after wave of very good and then they get this game breaker who i don't think they're playing enough but also he's not performing enough like after basically winning a series on his own he's not really scoring i mean i thought he played okay so it's funny guys when he was

playing against winnipeg 25 minutes a night uh this series 1956 2052 and 1809 that's not nearly enough let's play the wheels off the guy what are you doing yeah what'd you get him for you see all the money you gave him what are you doing double shift him jess i want to ask you something you've watched the florida series right yes if miko rantanen was playing with fetch in ajo would would the carolina hurricanes have at least a win right now no no the carolina hurricanes the way they play hockey doesn't lend themselves to miko rantanen's game i think we saw that during the brief moments that he was there um he doesn't rod bridenmore system doesn't lend to miko rantanen being able to do what he wants and i don't think it would have been a great fit and i think we all

saw that right um i don't think that even having rancid and helps the hurricanes in the series against florida florida's just the better team i mean it's not it's one guy yeah yeah no but i mean like we're talking about his outsized impact on the dallas star so far yeah right and i'm just wondering not in this not in this series against florida yeah like no that one guy doesn't help this team they got to get grandlin more ice because i like his game anyway and they got to get ranting and more ice and i mean getting hints back would obviously help yeah they don't got them two and five canadians will hear the words you have cancer that's why every step and dollar raised matters on september 19th join thousands in toronto for the princess margaret cancer

foundation walk challenge yourself friends and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life saving research together we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer register today at pmcfwalk.ca real canadian superstore has everything you need this back to school season save on lunchbox savers like ziggy sliced le me products for always 375 and get life brand pure vita shampoo or conditioner for eight dollars each at real canadian superstore when you're ready we're ready with a whole world and more let's talk about that florida series for Zach uh well just announced Reinhardt Mikula that's how I was going to start the same career not playing there you go I didn't know if you'd seen it sorry I keep forgetting you're the one

with the computer in front of you it's funny Mikula is the I mean that's the that was just a weird play you know trips and it looked I I think he put his shoulder out like that was goals I know I know but I look at the uh Marner had two goals the Panthers and I go even losing that like remember they the one of the other adjustments they made in um in that series against Toronto was they flipped their fourth line out they changed every every guy and Gajevich Greer and uh who's the last guy Nosek Nosek came in and they were immediately an issue or immediately a problem oh Nosek especially was a huge issue that's what Florida did last year yeah they completely switched it out and that was one of the things I flagged this year because I'm like well like

who's their stemland because stemland to me was so good for them i thought lorenz was really effective ryan lomberg kyle akpozo uh nick cousins like all those guys are gone every one of the names i just mentioned are gone one of them was even on the team they played and what did they do they friggin kicked their ass they found other guys they found other guys nosik was great boquist uh uh i think i you know i mentioned marner had two goals in 13 games i think boquist has tied him um and now he is back ahead of austin matthews for career goals uh after the first round oh god um like they just they just keep regenerating so to me like no disrespect to greer that's not the loss because it's built into the equation that they can replace him right micola is a little

more difficult i assume balinskas gets back in and uh reinhardt adam you you've been streaming the series on the youtube channel i sure have i've found like from puck drop of game number one through the whistle at the end of game number three this series has been relatively boring because i think every time these two teams step on out on the ice one team is clearly better than the other oh yeah have you had fun streaming this yes have you found it entertaining uh i've i've had a blast because our our panthers listeners are a hilarious bunch and our cadence listeners are very uh they're very honest about their team they're very much like this sucks and i hate this but okay just to give you an idea like so we get into the third period start the third period third

period of game three saturday night saturday night hockey night in canada that's right hockey night in southern united states it is one one hockey night and sunrise it is a tie game and go either way it's one totally and i'm like this is i said this is the best the carolina hurricanes have played and and it was that was the best they had played how could you deny and they it's clearly and they were getting shots and listen they weren't creating great opportunities but whatever kachakov looked good yeah and the holy shit did he explode the panthers go and score more goals than they have

in a game in this series. So far, it's been 5-5-6. How many 5-goal periods have there been in these playoffs? Oh, I don't think there have been any. That's the most in Panthers' history. 5 goals in a single period? They've never had a 5-goal period. And I think... And they were doing side quests!

They scored 5 goals, and then were like, we're up big, let's go kick Sebastian Ajo's ass. Yeah. Oh yeah. And then you saw... They did a side quest! And Marshan's going after Goss' bear for the throw, you know, shooting the puck out of them. Side quests! It's crazy. You know what I like about the Panthers? There's a lot of things I like about the Panthers.

Guys, the thing that... So, Anthony Stallers gets injured in the second round. We all know it. What do the Leafs do about it? Fuck all. Fuck all. Well... So, no. Did they win? Yes. They took some guys out. But hey, guess what? You have

to do the side quests, too. Yeah. Well, there was some... They did get into some chippy shit. Chip? Come on. Well, like Domi on Barkov Ekman Larson on Rodriguez like Rodriguez missed games who who went at Bennett no one no one no one no one no one he's your starting goaltender no one I know no one no one Reinhardt goes out and they're like we're gonna kill you Ajo and you saw Kachuk in the box at the end of the game yelling at Ajo keep your head up in game four Barkov Barkov uh got hit by Brandon Hagel and

the next game Aaron Eckblad's like I'm taking your fucking head off and he paid for it with a one game suspension I think it was two but it was one oh whatever like it was it was worth it to him it was one game against the Leafs yeah that's all I remember but like it's almost oh man

I don't like that Barkov got hit but now I get to take revenge on whoever did it and it happened to be a good player on the lightning who duken like just And by the way, Aaron Ackblad did the flying elbow, the flying forearm thing to Jackson Blake in game one.

He's done that to three or four people in his playoffs. To the back of his head in game one. And that's fine. It was totally, it was the, guys, it was the exact same play as the Hagel play. What did you think of Lou Streening getting five for that hit on Blake? I think he absolutely deserved it. And here's what, so Greg Wyshynski makes a point in,

immediately after that, because he's at the game and he's like, listen what is luster ryan is supposed to do and because jackson follow through jackson blake puts himself in a bad position yes and i get that but he follows through but but it's on the guy throwing the hit to not throw the hit luster ryan and and by the way we've said time and time and time again the accidentally on purpose o meter for the florida panthers is sky high they're the unluckiest team and hockey at them unluckiest team and you know what i bet they feel real bad about that let's reward them with another cup let's let's give it to them they're gonna deserve it a parade at a bar uh it's uh listen uh i'm so tired of the the pearl clutching and everything that goes on

so luster ryan and finally gets a penalty that matches the the crime i think go i guess what the florida panthers do what they do what i've been screaming about teams needing to do on the on pk they they pressure your defense they pressure you at the blue line what does it do it leads to turnover after turnover they've been doing that for three years and nobody's ever adjusted they've been doing that for three years they're gonna make you make a mistake it's crazy how good they are at it and nobody goes you know what maybe we should try that i don't know how they're not exhausted all the time like they have the craziest engine of any team in the league no one's got a better engine not even the oilers um that doesn't mean the oilers don't do some

things better but like they're just non-stop completely non-stop and your job as a gm uh this summer is to go out and get a team that sort of looks at least a little bit like that like okay they're fast you know it's not the easiest to find fast guys who are also defensively responsible who have a scoring touch they'll kill you if you get a player and you're not afraid of them are you would you be afraid if your team was playing this player if the answer is no don't sign them well specifically if you're the canes they need to get some fear in that lineup is anyone afraid like no nobody's afraid of them and and you look at so jess what i don't know if you saw the comments after the game rod brandamore said the best players on the ice can't be jordan martinuk

and jordan stall for the carolina hurricanes yeah he's right and he's right and what's scary about that is i would have told you after game two and i think i said it on the show i'm not sure jordan stalls an nhl player he's an nhl player i think he's an old one i think he's close to done and a series like this he gets exposed by florida very quick and i know he was never fleet of foot and i know he carries a lot of gravita in that organization i'm not trying to hate i'm just trying to say i don't know that he's got it anymore and he was along with martin nook their two best players okay which is you're screwed this is very funny it's over this is very funny because of how big jordan stall is i tried to type jordan stall into hockey db and it came up

as jordan's steak oh beef um he had 36 points this season he has two points in 13 games in these playoffs um uh from the beginning of the playoffs i wasn't afraid of this team like kind of makes you wonder they're not terrible like they're very obviously not terrible they won two rounds yeah which is something i would kill for my team to do we all knew they weren't gonna win they're not they're not built for winter you know what i mean they're not no they're built for winter they're not built for spring well they're not built for spring they're not thick enough they're not hardy enough they're not mean enough there's not a single guy on that team where you go if i take a cheap shot he's coming after me i mean

Brent Burns is so damn old. Dude, Brent Burns is physically a non-factor. Brent Burns back in the day, but it ain't back in the day. He's 38. Jordan Stahl back in the day, but it's not back in the day. And then you're looking at like, oh, they got Cockney Emmy back. Oh, like gives a damn, man. They have two rookies on their decor right now.

Yeah. One who they were playing without injuries. Yes. I just, they might win a game. It's a little bit of revisionist history. like i thought they looked really good through 10 games like they didn't play a bad game for 10 games i don't think that should just be dismissed i thought they'd have a better challenge against florida and i have the foresight to see them show up like this and like there's a case to be made

for the team needs a complete overhaul yeah based on the last few times they've flamed out of the playoffs and their performances in the eastern conference finals and even last year in the second round against um the new york rain they look great against the rangers yeah yeah but like clearly they don't have whatever it takes to get over that final hump and like i don't know if i knew it going in but i think it's clear now that they don't and adam you were talking about how uh brendan moore is talking about how stalls the best player on the ice like that um did you know that shveshnikov has one shot in this series oh he's one shot on goal he's been terrible in three games and three bad penalties too i think that's a case of where you build a roster where we're

going to rely on our systems we're going to rely on not having the game breaker and they've been trying to do this formula for enough years now that i think they've come to the realization it doesn't work and that's why you go out and do the miko ranson and deal but that was temporary because you couldn't get him to sign a contract and he didn't really work in your system so there's some sort of push and pull here with the hurricanes where they need to play a different type of game that'll lend itself better to the later rounds of the playoffs and not just beating up on lesser opponents. And they also need some better high-end talent

that's going to show up more consistently than the performers they have right now because consistently year in, year out, you have the Aho and Shveshnikov and Slavin doesn't provide offense. So where are you getting this game-breaking ability? And you lose Pesci and Shea and that sucks. And that definitely sucks.

And Sean Walker, while good, is not a replacement for those guys. Goss Dispair is not a replacement for that. Brent Burns is old, as he said. So the thing with the Hurricanes and they also have one of the lowest payrolls in the NHL. Yeah, they had the money. I mean they were going to spend it on Miko.

The Canes It's unspent. The Canes, yeah, because it rots now. Now it's just like bad apples at Loblaws. You throw them out. There's no cavalry coming over the hill. Yeah, you don't get a bonus next year because you didn't spend it at the cap. The thing is with

Carolina, if you ask their fans and i think they're right about this this is technically a retool year anyway right because they the ranting and thing didn't work out uh they lost shea and pesci there are places in this on this roster they need to build it's a good outcome in context i guess but that's because i asked after game two i put a video up i'm like is rod's job potentially on the line because they are not in this series at all they've scored four goals in three games they've had 16 scored against 16 to four in three games yeah that's insane now but but but okay the so who was the guy they were in they were looking at acquiring and were close to acquiring other than miko rantanen ricard

no other than that i thought it was ricard ricard no no no bigger name oh mitch marner bigger than that well not bigger than that uh connor mcdave before sorry before miko rantanen the other name was alias petterson oh and so my question is on jesse's point are they actually really committed to changing because alias petterson is more of what they have and i don't and he's also a very expensive version of that and also has legitimate issues of what kind of condition is he's going to show up to camp in but i think it's a sign that they are looking to do a big deal for a guy who can be a more impact offensive threat sure like i think i think it's actually a good thing that they are looking into because they didn't do petterson you know they didn't end up doing that

because they they had enough evidence there but i think tulsky is looking at the situation and he knows what they're missing and that's why they're in on petterson and they did the ransom they they right you don't need us to tell you the hurricanes need to make moves the hurricanes think the hurricanes need to make moves right they tried to make them and the problem is they didn't they even made one and undid it i i like again they're not bad they're obviously not bad i think they're in this weird category of team that is clearly not bad clearly good and clearly not good enough who's in that category hurricanes leafs or they're clearly not bad they're clearly not good enough kings clearly not bad clearly not good enough you maybe throw the capitals in there

maybe maybe um i i just i don't know what you do there and maybe it's solved by simply spending the cap space that you have yeah you have so much and and apparently they're one of the teams super interested in marner and i get that i think they made a mistake oh they're interested in everyone do something i i i think they made a mistake extending freddie in the second round because now they've got him through next year and i'm not he doesn't make anything that's a it's a small contract i guess i and you know how far can you really expect a team with the top four of slavin great walker good gossespierre good in certain contexts and jalen chatfield and you know brent burns and dimitri dimitri orlov has got to be hurt he got orched man what was he minus five

it was crazy again every goal was him all of it is just good not great it's good not great and like they're gonna have to spend some money and i think hurricanes fans i know have been a little frustrated or sorry 28 million they have to spend hurricanes fans i know have been a little frustrated with the way we've talked about the team they have the same amount of money to spend as the leafs do essentially what right now no for free agency this year yeah yeah it's not that great they're not gonna spend it okay sorry that's not what they do i didn't mean to interrupt but i just no no it's it um their series against new jersey like yeah you give them credit they won a series series are hard to win but yeah you you should you played the albany devils or whoever the

hell their their minor league affiliate is these days i don't know it always changes um i know that's what it was like 10 years ago i don't know um and then the caps didn't scare me i don't think you need to go back and dismiss their victory no i'm not i'm not that's what it sounds like you're doing no well yeah i guess maybe a little yeah but like like they they won those games and they also won them in impressive fashion yeah so like i don't think i don't think there's anything to you shouldn't take away because they beat the opponents that they should have but but here's here's been what some people have said in a one through eight or a one versus eight playoff system the current eastern conference final is a first round matchup yes the hurricanes versus the

panthers and then the hurricanes are out first round and maybe it's a completely different conversation right we're like yeah it's time to blow this up yeah yeah well like you can't but like that's not the reality because like you look at the where the who the leafs should have played in the first two rounds like they wouldn't have faced florida until the eastern conference finals it would have been um they would have played i think new jersey and then they would have matched up with tampa assuming tampa won their first round matchup dude sign me up for that path and then they play florida in the eastern conference finals if everything kind of broke out that way and then you're like okay so keep brendan shanahan like you can't exist in that world where you hypothetically

made the eastern conference final like the florida they won two rounds here like they did that i don't i don't think you live in a world where you're like we need to win x amount of rounds it's you're in a playoff series who cares what round it is you're getting killed sure yes and i think we've reached that now that we see them against florida and it's not close yeah they need a bit of a retool here at the higher end of their lineup i think the depth works i think they have a bunch of depth i think that's their entire roster is is 20 guys worth of depth yeah it's about the problem it's about the higher end of it like you got you got your top end defenseman too in slavin like not to take away from him i said he doesn't have the offensive capabilities of like um macar or

or bouchard even but he's all world defense but the defense is the top is top end of anybody you know it's about getting more of the offensive side of things in the high end talent which is like an impossible thing to just acquire easily in the nhl that's the hardest thing to get and we've said this a few times this season every team has good players every team some so well yeah maybe perhaps not every day they're the better version of the kraken they're a better version of the kraken they don't have a single player on this team oh god they don't have a single player on this team that's a point of game player not one not a single player this season this season oh shit you might have nailed it oh shit oh no they are a better version of the

cracking better goaltending better overall players but i like joey to court a lot wow i mean like the cracker is such a negative what group are such a negative though like oh yeah if it's the tandem versus i i go out and win it for us joey what at some point we need to have the cracking conversation because i am still this is now what they're on their third or fourth head coach already like ron how how many bullets does ron francis get uh how many bad contracts Didn't he just get promoted? Yeah. How many big lumbering defensemen can you pick up?

Not enough to make Philip Grubauer look good, I guess. It's crazy. Crazy. No, like, listen, it doesn't matter what round it is. You know, you get to the Stanley Cup final. I think you get to feel good about yourself being in the Stanley Cup final. You get swept. You don't feel good.

How close were you? It's a difficult evaluation. like man we won three rounds of playoff hockey and then we got murdered yeah how did we let that happen that happened like four straight years in the 90s it was weird every year like oh okay this team's really good they made it to the cup final oh they got swept the panthers who else got swept panthers got swiped capitals got swept again capitals got swept the flyers got swept yes and the red wings got swept actually they did as well it was four straight years it was 95 96 97 98 uh yeah not only did the red wings win back-to-back cups they swept back-to-back crazy

they swept the flyers they swept the caps crazy they swept lindros and brindamore and brindamore and kolzig john leclerc was crazy people forget how good kolzig was in that little pocket of time dude i mean uh so you're good enough or you're not so what we're saying here jesse i guess is what you're you're hinting at is that this is a good baseline team they gotta add elite talent to it exactly okay yeah all right they're not in a bad position like to improve they're not like they they have a ton of assets that was the i was disappointed at the trade deadline i'm like you got these futures for ranton you need to use them and i think they tried and they failed stankhoven is so clearly a player like he's he's so good for them um but if you're gonna have

him on the roster he's five eight that's okay i need you're gonna need bigger guys around him yes pummel yes yes you have to balance that i think he's a tough nut he's good player he's really young spectacular you got you have to go out and make yourself a not a relevant team because again that's just they're too good to be talked about that way you should be elite and and you might think well we're in the final four we're elite no you're not on the other end of the things uh brad marshand is the best trade deadline acquisition i think in the history of time i agree with you first round pick it ends up being after the second gets upgraded to a first where's the leafs made that deal instead of lot oh oh god it would have been fun who i like but

still um well then we would have been pairing can you imagine domi and marshand on the same line oh my god the all the all would never play with marshand he's not defensively responsible enough second in on the team in scoring right now like uh who would have predicted like man when he arrived it didn't he looked busted up well he was he looked he didn't play for the first three weeks after he was acquired at the trade you looked old yeah well he was he was starting to look old literally injured yeah he didn't play he started to look old and he worked his way back and this is same old brad same old brad unreal trade deadline a disgusting fit like a genuinely disgusting fit he's perfect dude he might be more of a panther than a bruin he's not leaving

by the way anybody that thinks oh the least one take a run i'm like why would he leave if bennett's going you're keeping marshan the difficult thing with marshan we did talk about this before is he's never cashed in on how good he is yeah and they're saying he could make as much as eight million bucks and i'm like that is too much he's never made close to i love him i love him but eight million yeah but you're not paying for his production you're paying for his playoff you're paying for i mean he's still a clearly elite two-way player yeah he's still clearly such an asshole he is like he wasn't on team canada to be one of their elite guys he was there to be a prick and also a leader can you imagine next year brad marchand playing next to

austin matthews no that'd be a pretty defensively responsible incredible it'd be an incredible line okay maybe eight million it's not so bad what what what i saw with the leaf series so i was i was doing some thinking about this the leaf series against florida top line versus the panthers top line they did pretty well leafs leafs second line versus the panthers second line it started pretty good and then it obviously tilted the other way what on earth were you throwing out there was even sort of the lindell marsh and lusterine in line nothing nothing and that's what that's what completely turned the series on its head maurice went oh wait a sec they don't have an answer for this even sort of kind of killed them so like i you know when we when we talk

about the leafs need for a center i would love to see them try to recreate that line it'd be great something along those lines there's a fantastic article in the athletic today by michael russo about the brad marchand acquisition that florida made i've never heard of i've never heard of that name they and michael russo does a fantastic job giving the behind the scenes details on how they actually acquired him and paul maurice was initially skeptical at the idea of of of uh acquiring brad marshall why so they have the quote in there um it's bill zito on trade deadline day uh this year on march 7th a half hour before 3 p.m maurice figured the panthers were done for the day and was leaving when Zito walked out of the Panthers war room and asked, what about this

guy? This guy being Marchand. That was the first time I said, oh, he's serious. If he says it, if he says it, it could happen. Maurice was initially nervous about the potential addition. I didn't think we had a huge hole on our team. This was an ad. It wasn't, it wasn't, hey, if we add this guy, it's going to fix a bunch of things. I thought we were pretty good. And then you don't know how would that fit? I'd never met the guy. So there's always a bit of nervousness. There's many stories about bringing in high-end guys toward the end of their career and it doesn't work out and it doesn't fit. But they were sure. I would say the thing that I think that our management group does the best is they identify as guys that can come and fit in the room and

play our style of game and kind of flourish. Zito is bewildered that anybody could have been nervous. There's no decision that's 100%, Zito said. Even the easy decisions we make are like 49 51 percent one way or the other but i would say out of all the acquisitions that's probably the easiest because of marshy's great body of work and knowing what you're getting man so i'm now at the point in our lives by the way where brad marsh and is the grizzled vet giving giving advice i love that this i i maurice didn't see a gap on his team so i just typed in like panthers lineup february to see what came up this article from the hockey writers came up here's the projected lineup for the Florida Panthers.

Carter Verhege, Alexander Barkov, Sam Reinhardt. Not much difference. That's what they started with against the Leafs. And then Verhege dropped out. Second line, Mackie Samaskevich, Sam Bennett, Evan Rodriguez. Again, not a huge difference. Samaskevich, I mean, basically, I forgot about him as another option for the Panthers.

I'm going to skip ahead to the fourth line. A.J. Greer, Thomas Nosek, Jonah Gajevich. That's just a combination of the guys they've been using. Their third line, Justin Sordeef, Anton Lindell, Jesper Boquist.

That is the big difference. Obviously, Lou Starinin is missing from this lineup. I assume he was hurt. By the way, Boquist is now on the first line and doing great. Yeah, and you replace Justin Sordeef, who bless him. I think he's

young um with brad marchand like oh we don't have a gap on our team yeah sure you do you if you have the opportunity to get brad marchand yes you do yes you do have a gap could you improve on this player whoa i like that guy okay would you replace him with brad marchand well is that an option yes i'm bill zito i'm nuts my laser eyes my i think the coolest thing about the article is just how much they outline how much fun the panthers have off the ice yeah and brad marchand like he's come in and fit right into the room and all the guys love him and because he's so outgoing and how much fun he is like he's been a catalyst for them just enjoying their time here in the playoffs and it feels so

easy for them to just play and win these games and and and just play good hockey and they're just having a blast off the ice and i think it starts from like maurice down and marshan has come in and just added to that and they're and they're true so that so when they talked to marshan about the dairy queen visit my wife uh we were watching we're watching the highlights and they and they showed that sort of uh that clip and my wife's like she's like we're out of the playoffs and they're fucking dairy queen dude she's like they're enjoying their lives at fucking dairy queen you really and she's like i don't think our guys are going to dairy queen no you got they're not having fun like that you got sunned by a 37 year old who's eating a blizzard you suck

go golf yeah no the dairy queen thing like it's the perfect microcosm of what the florida panthers are like they're they're they're just having fun and here we are in shelbyville having a warm glass a turnip they take this thing so seriously on the ice and off the ice it's just a good time playing hockey uh it's brilliant and you know what i can see why panthers fans uh especially the ones that are joining us on the stream that'd be cat the cats fan and uh jose pantalone joey pants you know they're having they're having the best time and by the way every time it's so interesting every time the panthers score i get more panthers fans watching so you know how when steve scored when the leafs when the leafs are scored against steve streams

go up by like a thousand people like oh what's steve gonna say for me it's like panthers fans are like i'm gonna wait till it's about three nothing maybe four nothing and then i'm coming so now we're gonna dance i i went i went through some stats for my channel and for the sdpn channel and i and i learned some things so this has been the biggest month in the history of my channel it's been the biggest month in the history of the sdpn channel um it is for sdpn we've had bigger months uh since may 2023 because we started streams so it's a little skewed but for me this was the biggest month on my channel since may 2023 wow when the leafs won a round winning is better for business oh your numbers go up when they lose they can't lose when they don't

play they can't win they can't lose they can't do shit uh you don't need to argue with people who can't do yeah well i'm proving it with numbers argue with people who can't do math simple math two and five canadians will hear the words you have cancer that's why every step and dollar-raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research.

Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. Now, I want to talk about the Leafs a little bit. CJ mentioned this on the show this morning. by the way cj show was spectacular today they're going a little bit of morgan riley talk which i i believe they they gotta move morgan riley but one of the things that they're not gonna do uh with this new management setup is replace brandon shanahan right away now they might eventually and

cj talks about why a president's role could be helpful for a team like the leafs because that's a heck of a lot on keith pelly's plate and keith pelly uh i know he's like adhd to the max and i know he but uh there's only so much uh one human being well hey you gotta run what is it six teams Yeah, it's a lot. Good luck. So what's interesting, though, is now Craig Berube is in a new position where he probably has more influence on this on this team than most coaches in the entire NHL. And Brad Treliving, as a general manager, has more influence on this team than many general managers in the NHL do, because essentially you're reporting directly to the guy that represents ownership. that's what Keith's job is and I wonder what you guys thought about that because in the past it's been a bit of a chain of like we got to go here and then we got to go there one of the things one of the criticisms I think Keith Pelley has of the least front office is how many just there's

like a lot of holdovers from Dubas and Lou and there's it's a little bit bloated and they probably are going to thin it out a little um I'm curious about that is that a good thing or is that a bad thing is that what this organization needs you guys think or do you feel like oh like might be setting themselves up for failure i'm happy to give craig berube more power because i believe in craig berube um but the difference is coaches the difficult thing is coaches gets get fired all the time and now if you give him an increased role like say i don't know i'm just spitballing he's the head coach and like director of hockey ops no but he's just a head coach he's gonna stay that oh they're not going to give him a title like i said there's no title he's just he's going to

have more input well if you give him a title there's a vacuum but since they're not going to do that yeah why wouldn't you want more input from a veteran head coach so then my question is when you see a veteran head coach go into management it usually goes poorly look at barry trotz so because coaches see things a certain way yeah but there's a there's a safeguard there in brad and brad okay yes what do you think i think this is a good thing for the organization Nick Kriperios was talking the other day on a post-game hit. It must have been one of the things around the Leafs, like when Brandon Shanahan got fired or something like that on Sportsnet Central.

He was saying how the Leafs front office has over 100 people employed. And a typical front office in the NHL has 43. So like you said, that's been a large topic of conversation over the last week or so is them thinning things out in the front office and Keith Pelley coming in there. now that he has the resources to do what he wants with this organization since he's been there a year and it's like time for change. Okay, I've seen how this thing plays out. I see how they've operated for a full season.

Now let's clean things up and get it streamlined. And I think this whole thing is going to be very beneficial for the Leafs in the end. Having too many cooks in the kitchen in pro sports, I find, is always troubling because the best teams like they're run by a couple of guys who have really great visions on what their team should look like and a couple of guys who have great ideas of what it takes to build championship rosters and the Leafs getting down to the guys they know

and the guys they trust which will be Treleving and Berube and whoever they're keeping in the front office whether it's Pritam, whether it's like the great video guys they have like everybody in the office who they trust is going to stick around And I feel like that's going to result in a better product on the ice. I think there's an echo chamber there. And I say this without much insight, and I'm sure I'll hear from somebody who works for the team who goes, you're an asshole.

But I think that they need more dissenting voices in there. And I think under Dubas, you had a and I was one of these disciples. You have people that really, truly believe in what he says. And a lot of it, in retrospect, looks like shit. You can't build a decor. But they sold us on revolutionizing the way hockey is played, right? And that's what a lot of these people were hired on. And I wonder if you don't move to just an office that goes, let's just find good players and not worry about revolution.

The game's played the way it's played. Let's just identify good players. And I look at the way Florida's built. Brick by boring brick. like like you know a little deal like oh well get that luster ryan and kid in this vinny trocek deal forsling forsling off waivers both from carolina do micola i don't even think was on last year's cup winning team and then when they added him i was like god how did you win the cup and then become more the panthers i hate you this is and and you know picking up reinhardt from from buffalo

for a bag of pucks um and now he's a selkie nominee right like we scored 60 goals yeah this is the verhage who was a cast off from the leafs and the islanders and the and the light and the lightning too and they're able to identify these players and bring them in for relative like people think all the i'm having conversations with people all the time they're talking about like well i don't know what the leafs can do they've already traded their first round picks guys they only have easton cowan in the system ben danford's a few years away like uh what do they think they're gonna do here and i'm like i don't know i look at the way the panthers built their team and it wasn't big spectacular moves until hubert owen wieger for kachuk and what other big spectacular

bobrovsky signing uh that that whopping contract that was a huge swing spectacular move that was a big swing what else like uh like even you know how the lightning are always like yeah we drafted this guy fifth round he's uh like whl mvp and you're like oh get lost frig you they're always doing that florida i don't know a lot of the guys they've drafted have been like with really high picks yeah most of them that i can think of oh sam bennett for pucks did you say about that or did you say that reinhardt reinhardt no but bennett that it was a first round pick though wasn't it i don't think so that sam bennett trade let me i don't think so no because daryl sutter was uh hell bent on cratering his value um that was crazy i still can't believe that guy couldn't

play for daryl sutter daryl sutter didn't see the value in sam sam bennett and a six to florida for emile heinemann and a 2022 second so heinemann i think was a second round pick so it's sort of two seconds but heinemann pinged around like a couple times but i'm just saying sam that deal sucks dude like that sucks that stinks and that's where you need good pro scouting and now Bennett's with Kachuk but so the Leafs though don't have the time they don't have five years to build this the way the Panthers built this guys they got to do it in the next three so I'm looking at their front office first first of all the Leafs have not updated their front office page on their website Brendan Shanahan is still the president and alternate governor you got a GM and Brad to

living special advisor to the general manager shane doan that seems exactly like the sort of position they would eliminate but i don't know um assistant general manager brandon pridham capologist assistant general manager player personnel derrick clancy that was a true living hire assistant general manager player development dr hayley wickenheiser i don't want to lose her assistant general manager hockey research and development daryl metcalf so i believe he runs the analytics department assistant general manager minor league uh ops and gm of the ryan hardy so one so they have a special advisor to the gm assistant assistant assistant assistant so it's brad for living and essentially five assistants that's a lot it's kind of a lot

i think uh some people are going to be absorbing roles here um then you got senior advisor player personnel dave morrison i don't even know what that means director of amateur scouting obviously director of hockey scouting and operations forever too yeah director team operations bradley like i don't know i don't know i don't know enough about also a hundred kipper a hundred no there's a hundred people on this i don't what find me a hundred okay like leafs equipment staff those people aren't in the front office player performance that's not the front office i think what he's saying is that there's usually about 45 right yeah he's at 43 43 yeah i think i think it's the extra like i think it's just extra bodies in there like people who just work within that part of the

organization like it's not like those executive roles i think it's the more the so it's three branches out yeah it's not the assistant general manager it's the six people working underneath them exactly oh can you can so like all those assistants would have people who work for them yeah they have departments that's why they're assistant general manager i think golly that's what he's referring to i think he knows what he's talking about when he says those things yeah that one i trust him no do a quick google and nick kiprios what's this guy's resume uh i didn't i didn't agree with his toronto star article and i would say this to him about the leafs undervaluing mitch marner i think if anybody valued mitch marner he's big it was it was the

toronto maple leafs he's scary perhaps more than the fans oh nick yeah he jerseyed me once on live tv that's right and the latest out of the mitch marner stuff was it dregger who said he's like 99 percent yeah he's gone i don't know why like uh frege said in 32 thoughts this morning he was like uh oh the leafs want to get clarity on that i'm like you have clarity don't tell me you don't have clarity okay you maybe haven't had the conversation but you guys know and unless you can pull some wild sales pitch out of your ass that is not only going to pay him

handsomely, but also rehabilitate the relationship between the fans and Mitch. Guys. This is, it's not happening. Guys. And don't do this to, don't do this to yourselves. Don't do this to him. It's over. And he's, by the way, gonna make the call. He's not gonna be here. It's over. You're getting

nothing for him. It's your fault. Sit in it. Fix it. Actually, it's not even their fault. The guy that's, uh, the guy that made that choice is gone now. well then it's keith's fault so brad treliving just got here i'm assuming jesse brad treliving is going to speak this week to the media um but unsure so do you think that they can get away with the general manager not doing an end of session press no he has to talk at some point i'm just unsure when it is and you haven't heard anything no we haven't been given notice that he's

gonna speak yet i feel like this is that time of year where they're like right can i just wait till the draft can i just talk at the draft you can't at some point we'll have a meeting of uh media availability but it probably should have happened alongside keith belly but his his daughter's graduation got in the way and now they're like okay so we don't really have any urgency to do this so maybe we just delay it and it sucks for like the the reporters who like fuck off after that because like that's that'll be like hey you got a couple weeks off for those guys and they kind of just kind of stick around until that happens and you got to go across the street yeah for me no like i'm working here anytime so it doesn't really matter but i feel

bad for those guys so i got a call i got a note from a guy named logan on instagram okay he said hey adam i got a bit have you ever been to japan got a bit of a funny story for you uh i heard you mentioned that Brad for living was in Calgary watching his daughter graduate. Well, as it turns out, I go to the same school as his daughter. And I also just graduated today with her or rather yesterday, since I'm sending this to you after midnight, I had absolutely no idea. I was going to the same school as the daughter of the general manager of my favorite hockey team. And I quite frankly feel like a dumb ass. Uh, at first when I heard them call her name during the summer ceremony, I thought, huh? Her living. That sounds pretty familiar. Then after the ceremony, I saw

him walking around and then i thought to myself huh that looks a lot like brad he's like six five he's huge a few minutes later i saw him again and i honestly thought my mind was playing tricks on me so i finally decided to go up and ask for a picture and lo and behold it was him i couldn't believe it and uh he did get a picture which i thought was nice to brad to do that and i thought you'd find that funny who's taller you were brad uh we're about the same height ah yeah who's friendlier between what you and you and brad between me you're quite friendly and i've heard He's quite affable as well. Brad, like the one, two times he's approached me and just said hello.

Like, he's been very nice. Is he a good banter? We haven't had banter. No? You're not flirting yet? No. He just said hello. You will.

I like your change. I told this story on the podcast. I'm curious. It was a long time ago. I'm curious about this, Jess. Going in, do you think the questions will be about the series or will it be about what's next? It's going to be about, like, where we are at that moment. i there's gonna be some conversation about like how he looks back on the florida series and like

games five and seven because you want to hear from his perspective on what they were missing what happened there because brube gave his answers on the structure that they lost in those games and you want to hear from the guy who instructed the team on what he thinks happened there so it's a hundred percent going to be a question but it's going to be a lot about like okay what's what's happening now one of the things that was floating out there earlier on in the season is is like it was like basically five games in and darren drager was like here i'm gonna drop a matthew nice bomb bang and uh and he said uh yeah they're not even going to negotiate until the end of the season and uh yeah it's good look it's better be a bridge deal because the kind of money that

would take him for a long-term deal the leafs can't afford right so it was sort of like uh and and well so now with martyr gone i wonder if they can and i was quite i wondered about this so let's just have the the matt and i's conversation this is a player who had a breakout year and he shows up in the playoffs uh-huh this is a player with some injury concerns i think some i think that's fair yeah but he hasn't missed like significant time no he's missed time no but not significant um 58 points in 78 games i think he'll he had 29 goals not 30 uh so right there i think he's a 30 goal score uh maybe one day he's a point of game player i don't know what is the comfort level on an eight year contract for this guy perfectly comfortable

with him getting i don't know eight times seven would be i think incredible but i think with him i'm leaning bridge so you so you want like a three to a five year uh yep or like even four but because again Marner's out of the picture Tavares even if you bring him back will be old like by the time for me everything comes down to when Matthew's contract ends yeah Willie is going to be a leaf beyond that fine but you're going to need to build around if Matthew's leaves you're still going to need people to build around and I feel like a cost-effective Matthew Nye's and a cost-effective William Nylander's not bad that's not a bad I don't know about cost-effective fixed cost you don't think william kneelander's cost effective he's a second 11.5 11 second leading

goal score in the entire nhl this year what 11.5 is for you okay now do it again i would call that cost effect now do it again you got to do that every year for 11.5 we have a skewed view of of so steve hold on making this money so so what is not cost effective about 11 and a half and being second in in goals i've only seen it once i want to see it again no but after one year after one year okay but after one year yeah what's not cost effective about your one because it's oh man 11 and a half what a friggin bargain like no that's it's i'm not talking about a bargain you're saying cost effect cost effective which is no getting your value back cost effective that's the definition getting your value back i would say above value right that's that's what i would say that's a

bargain effective no you're looking for a bargain okay well and you're not gonna get a bargain on William Nylander on his third contract. So they've been getting less than cost effective out of these guys. Agreed. Especially in the playoffs. So cost effective is you're making your money back, or you're getting your value, and then getting better than your value as a bargain. Yes. Alright, fine.

So, yeah. Cost effective for William Nylander. I don't hate a single dollar they spent on William Nylander this year. Sure. Fine. Listen, I'm sour. You're sour about the leagues generally. Yeah. Fair. I don't know. Where were all of you? like it's very rare at the end of a playoff run you're able to look at all of them and be like

actually all of you were bad yeah like at the end when it came down like the final four games Tavares was bad Nylander was bad Matthews had the one good game and was bad same with Meyer um I'm just grumpy about all of them because Nylander's locked up if you lock up Nyes long term now you're guaranteed at least Nylander Nyes to build around for the next six or seven years But I look at Matthews, who we keep saying is the best goal scorer in the world, right? One of the best players in the world. Like, do you build a nice bridge around the idea that, hey, he, you know, Matthews could leave at the end of this. And then you maximize your dollars to surround Matthews and Nyes and Nylander with the most talent possible.

Right? You could free up another three, four million. Okay, so you're thinking that a Nize-Bridge deal would be $4 million over three years? Well, that's what we keep seeing. Is that what you think? Drew, who did he... He's a Dawson Mercer. Who did he...

Yeah, and they have somewhat comparable numbers. Different player. Yeah, different player. But if you were able to get that done, that could be all right. Realistically, I want Nize to be a Leaf his whole career. So if you lock him up until he's 30, that's a good outcome to me. um and the cap reminder it's exploding it's exploding i'd be okay with just about any nice contract i irrationally love this player i i have enough uh introspection to know i overvalue this

player right you just don't want to overpay him you want i don't want to overpay get money out i hope he signs eight years league minimum i am not there's a hard cap i'm not cheering for you to make the most money i'm not jesse and everyone who does is weird i think you're weird if you want you're not you're not cheering for million money people to make money off of billionaires then that's i think that's weird yeah yeah i think that's weird well there's a salary cap i think that's weird nope i think you got to cheer for him why are you cheering against the leafs you're cheering against the leaf stop stop billionaires millionaire there is no little guy here i wish i wish everyone would stop okay jesse i despise the idea of a matthew nye's bridge

deal at this moment because i look consistently throughout the league and the guys who have this potential where it's like we can see this guy as a first line player for his entire career he already is right now in the structure of this team and he's only getting better from here the way you get this crazy amount of value on these guys is you lock them up long-term early yeah you look at how uh nathan mckinnon's first deal went out when he signed that long-term one you're like oh my god nathan mckinnon making that kind of money dry sidles deal when he locked him up and i was like oh my gosh dry so i was making that type of money but even the kale mccarr contract right now is absolutely absurd um just down the list and then you go on the other side where you see guys who

sign these bridge deals like suban doing his and if the the canadians have to get killed they have to eat it he made less than three two years later one year later it's two two years later he wins the norris and they just gotta go pay him all the money in the world matthew nye is gonna be that same situation we have enough evidence here where we know matthew nye's is gonna be good the only time in his entire career where you're gonna get value on matthew nyes is now because at the next deal you're not gonna get any value he's gonna be in the prime of his life in the prime of his career he's gonna be a pending ufa he's gonna want all the money in the world there's not gonna be any type of value there i think for the sake of your franchise and having this guy on the team

you need to maximize the value you can give him the eight years give him the seven years whatever it has to be and just lock him up now that salary cap that's going up it's gonna keep going eight million dollars now is an eight million dollars in five years no you know we could have a cap in the 130 range in five years we're in 2025 right now the matthew nye's eight million dollars in 2032 is gonna be like a mid uh guy in your lineup card like a third line guy it'd be like a second liner you know and he's gonna be playing on that first line for the next decade you might as well give them the money now and get value back at the like the entire half of that contract jesse solid logic i'm on board i hope he's locked up long term adam eight years 15 million what do

you say i'm not doing that bootlicker bootlicker capitalist pig why are you cheering for the billionaires i'm looking at this like if it's eight times seven eight times seven and a half maybe i feel okay about it i i do why not nine well because i don't think he's worth nine why not 10 because he's not worth it i'm asking him to get liquor paid but i do want to say i think what one thing that matthew knight what the one thing the leafs can become this year up steven lawrence makes five mil one thing the leafs can become this year is is likable to the majority of their fans again and i hate to put it this way down goes brown fucking nailed it in one of his so good at the pulse he he was like these guys have not been likable for years and they come

across as petulant and you know who doesn't matthew nize matthew nize to me and i said it in the interview uh that last interview whatever uh uh the the locker clean out interview that guy feels like future captain to me i i i just like this city's gonna die for yeah i think i think you're making a mistake by giving them four years you're asking yourself for trouble yeah once that next contract and matthew's like it feels it feels like hey you got the opportunity to sign mitch for eight times eight again yeah and like i don't want them to get to this point where we're in contentious negotiations with all these guys because we see how this plays out time and time again the william neilander deal like it played out in the worst possible way to get it done in

that first year we went over last episode how much of a waste of a season that was but 6.9 looked like the craziest overpay at the time it was crazy complained about that deal for the first like two years we want he was the guy you can trade because the contract was like oh my god you can get rid of this contract and well you couldn't trade it because it was too much and then now we're like through all those years he made 6.9 yeah underpay like yeah yeah so i don't know with matthew nyes you i think you lock him up now and you get to that point where it's like okay first two years it's like oh you're making all that money but in the last six it could look like a crazy deal i have changed my mind you're right long term is the better play that's why we have

these discussions that's why we have them i don't know i i always hate that on the clips like steve's a fucking idiot no i was an idiot five minutes ago yeah but then i was convinced i'm right now yeah i'm surround yourself with friends it's great because when you're wrong then you become right two and five canadians will hear the words you have cancer that's why every step and dollar raised matters on september 19th join thousands in toronto for the princess margaret cancer foundation walk challenge yourself friends and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life saving research together we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer register today at pmcfwalk.ca um the the unlikability of this team and it's underrated

we don't talk about it enough we don't talk about it enough we should so and i didn't i sometimes that's on purpose because it's like listen i don't want to start an october show in the first thing and go man these guys were fucking unlikable last year and by the way they're the same fucking team this year i i had a video a few years ago i don't remember which season it was the leafs lost they they they had a 3-1 blown lead to anaheim i think it was the 10th game of the season and i hit the roof it's it's one of my most viewed videos and it's the 10th game of the season against anaheim reeves was on the team so maybe it was two years ago and people were like dude 10th game really and i'm like they look the same i'm so sick of this they're making the same

mistakes they're going to make the same mistakes because they're so damn stubborn i've been blessed through this podcast and with the book i've met literally thousands of people this year shaken thousands of hands this year people don't fuck with this team they don't like them they're not like yeah i'd love to go get a beer with them which i know is not the the bar for how you judge a good team as if i would get a beer with them but would you get a beer with the panthers fuck yes they love the oilers like the greatest time i don't think i get a beer with the panthers no i don't beer with matthew kachuk sounds like uh an interesting time i think listen that's a little toronto salt and cope and and i feel like i feel you jesse oh no no i'm taking away my own

personal biases like no right now like absolutely they feel like they'd be fun don't you think you'd have a good time no i would i would call jesse's not gonna answer it if i found out the panthers were in a bar and oh steve they invited you for a beer i'd be like oh that's great tell them i'll be right there and i'd call the fire department i'd be like there's too many people in there so it's not up to code but i think you should go investigate no like um yeah like it's not just marner although marner does get the most attention there you know the uncles still don't like willie very much austin people should like your captain and when he's scoring a bajillion goals yeah it's hard not to love a player who scores 69 goals but there's got to be something

there and this is what mystified me during the playoffs like it became an issue towards the end of the panther series but i was like this guy is an animal out there the two-way play hits blocks winning battles in the corner exactly the sort of thing where you would expect you would expect players on your team who do that sort of thing to be beloved and he didn't get love like that at all john and i think part of that's a function of the stubbornness of brandon shanahan and his regime to make any changes like i feel like he has spoken to a leaf fan for the last five years i don't i he must but it's impossible it's impossible he has and decided to run the team the way he did it's impossible and i think he put those players in a bad spot i think he put those players in a

position now listen does some of that fall on them for not getting it done 100 but i think by not because he's supposed to be the adult in the room yeah and by not making those moves the necessary changes he in effect doomed those poor kids and they were kids to fan outrage and anger when this was all they were ever capable of and do you think for a second like listen you throw a beer on the ice in there you throw a jersey on the ice in play there they will find you oh yeah they will have you on camera they will ban you from the arena for life you probably won't make it to the concourse but otherwise they'll find you yeah and and they will ban you and you'll never see another game in person again ever at least in that arena as long as you live and for for that to happen in a game

seven you have to understand you might be watching this going i don't know what the fuck these guys are talking about i love all those guys and i wish they'd run it back you are in the minority i hate it i hate to break it to you but there are a lot of people who are not online who don't have instagram and twitter who don't don't go on reddit and and bitch about whatever they want to bitch about they are just normal people and they're going i've had it i've had it i've had it i've had it and that is the proof of that and you saw in the keith belly press conference he didn't thank people for doing that but he thanked the fans for their passion he is he did acknowledge hey we got a special special group of fans here and they've taken a lot of shit and it's time that

we embrace that a little bit i don't think there's an unreasonable amount of pressure on the leafs i think there's an uh a perfectly reasonable but extremely high amount of pressure on these leafs and and did that fall out of the sky is it just because no it built over a decade you won two rounds in nine years the pressure is everyone going are they going to choke again carolina who we think are bad has won two rounds in the last month like no one is looking at the panthers going i wonder if they choke this series away and they might i doubt it very very much but they've given us no reason to think that. We go into every game

seven like, bet they fucked this up again. And then they did without fail every time. How will it happen this time that it breaks my heart? Without fail. They never won one. Not one. Mitch Marner came, had one of the greatest Leaf careers of all time, in the regular

season anyway, and left having never won a winner take all game. And Jesse, that's crazy. Jesse, I think you're right in saying that it's sad the way that's gonna to end because i was listening back to our one of our clips on it and i was like man what a great point he will not very likely ever get his number retired he will not very likely ever be on legends row and the re if he leaves and the reason for that is the bar was set at eastern conference final or western conference final in the doug gilmore wendell clark years they because they

were a western team that's so weird they they those guys went to game seven against gretzky and the kings and lost but they were a hard-fought team and it's not that it's not because doug gilmore won the selkie it's not because he had 125 130 points in the regular season it's because they fought like dogs and the city identified with them and not having their jerseys retired would be a disservice matt's never got past game six i think of the eastern conference final i don't think they went to a game seven austin matthews already has more individual career accomplishments than the two individuals you just named yeah he's got a hard no one and no one cares no one no one he has a heart trophy yeah and you compare dougie and and matt's

to austin and it's like not even those guys are sure fire put their jerseys up there build a statue for them and austin's not even close a few years ago like every now and then for the lfr i would gloss over like a milestone that the guys hit and people oh why didn't you mention that it'd be like oh you're right yeah i probably should and then i kept glossing over them and people stopped asking no one oh man he passed freaking hank mcgillicuddy from the 1930s no one even sort of cares yeah these stats these milestones these accomplishments don't championships that's that's what it's about what at a certain point it needs to be right and or at least a sniff at one and i think jesse you made a really good point going into either game five or

game seven when we were doing our pre-streams which i loved doing by the way i'm sad those are are gone um the uh the point that you made about matthew's not having a playoff moment doug has had a playoff moment wendell had a playoff moment matt's had a wendell had several playoff moments, especially in overtime. Their Sundin's like craziest playoff moment is a loss. They lost that game. I think the one, I think one of

my favorite Matt Sundin playoff moments is the slap shot on the Sens in like game three or game four. I think it was game one. It's an early series that is on par with Domi's, Benoit's like their early series

OT winners. Yeah, and like Like, Matthew, his playoff moments, game four against Columbus, it's like, okay. Man, in front of no one, in an empty building. It was in August. Yeah, and, like, all of that is mute because of how game five played out because they did it again. And he's had good game threes against, what was it,

last year against Boston, like, game five, four? Before he got knocked out of the game. Game five? Like, he had a really good game. He held them in that series. he Leafs won 2-1 game 5 Boston 2019 and after the Leafs got shit kicked the next two games CJ comes in and he's like well the Leafs front office really liked how tight game 5 was and that they won it it's okay but you see how you allowed I think it was 11 goals in the next two games

right are you fucking stupid and the answer was an emphatic yes we are that fucking stupid yeah they did that for another they ran that back another six runs or five runs you're idiots like i like i there's no more oh i wouldn't have done that you know you're idiots and you're also assholes because you made the fans look like idiots well and then it and then they who do the fans take it out on the players the players and so the players hate the fans boo the manager's box they would have if they could have yeah well and this is where i think guys like matthews and neilander who steve you were admittedly salty about which and i get it i'm salty towards all of them i think that they will not be i think that they'll get a newly sun life here i think

with marner going and it's not because of mitch but i think it's because it's the end of the core four you know what ryan o'reilly said after 2023 de-emphasizing the core four well it's going to be John Tavares is going to make between five and six million bucks if he's back next year uh Marner's going to be gone that is over I think there's a real good case to also let go of John Tavares if you really want that change I agree yeah it's difficult because like who else do you get that'll leave a hole but say that about Mitch then yeah like it's the same discussion it's a better argument with Mitch it's like okay who are you gonna get anybody anybody I don't it's just as long as try something else it's not the same guys you're running back try something one piece

I'm like, okay, you remove Mitch, but then you got the rest of the core that's still there and Riley's too. No, Riley's got to go. Tavares has got to be, if he's coming back, he's 3C. You have to have an answer at 2C. There are no excuses. That's what you have to do. I'm not going to lie. I know he's got a really

good cap hit. I'm not interested in Lotton being the fourth line center for what the Leafs gave up for him. Fuck that. So my point is you can be a winger then. He's got to be more important. I think when you look at this whole scenario, I do think that Matthews and Nylander get a different lease on life with these fans now that this is

over now that the core four is over because I think that they have and this would be the same if Matthews was leaving and Marner was staying if now that this is over fans are going to have the chance to experience a training camp where you don't know what's going to happen in game seven from preseason right and i and that's that like you were right in in 2024 to light them up because what happened they lost in game seven and in 2023 yeah and people people got on us for like hey guys like don't be so negative so early and i agree with that or um uh you know there was like a i remember there's like a twitter account that would like subtweet us all the time their whole thing was like we're gonna be only positive about the least what happened at least fucking losing game

seven 2022 and i just and i was not only were we right we were right for a long time and i and i look at this and i go these guys are going to have a much different interaction with fans next year and i'm excited for that there's so many different stories to tell finally with this leafs team can i give the leaf some advice give it to me what was the most popular leaf team since sunday and left uh probably the 16 17 16 17 conor brown scoring that goal a lot of fun yeah but a unique team that you can't replicate here's all these like top 10 5 picks coming in all at once can't replicate it what was number two i have my answer i don't mind this year's team i like this year's team a lot lots of lots of characters lots of

personalities this is close to number two i might put this three my answer is 2013 oh just the coming off the lockout yeah now now that team sucked but they made it they weren't very good they had a crazy goalie and they had a few guys who could score i don't know what team you're going to put together this summer game one of this season in that building behind us you go out there people aren't gonna mind what the score is you go out there you grab the other team by the collar and you punch until someone makes you stop that will get you the fans in the city i promise they tried that with ryan raves they need a better no fuck all that you got an old man who couldn't play hockey anymore he was still one of the toughest guys in the nhl

it wasn't a good hockey player the florida panthers are full of animals who will beat the shit out of you and then score two goals you need that you need that those are the teams that win every year those are the teams that win every freaking year and i'm so tired of that being the formula every year and everyone going no but what if we try get your ass kicked get beat up get filled in everyone who tried to be special and unique you got your ass kicked there are some outliers but it was either teams who did the punching or could take it colorado could take it tampa could take it all the others are animals i think to expect that you're asking austin matthews become a different kind of person no i don't know barkov's not that barkov's not that he can be

barkoff right like you can be that type of there's a leaf size bennett signed bennett they can get him yeah like there's room out there for like obviously it's diverse like i'm not like oh fuck here comes e2 loose to ryan and he's gonna he's about to fill me in but every jackson blake and then yeah like every yeah maybe you will every line has at least one guy on it who's gonna fuck your day up and play really good hockey while he does it if if you don't have that you're doing it wrong yeah and i'm saying the core of the lease right now and the the guys they have on the roster aren't those people here comes kelly yarn croak we've seen it for nine years so if that's the expectation like get ready to be disappointed so jesse you you are you i'm

always ready to say move move on from tavaris because i think next year actually is probably a step back year for the leafs i think they're a playoff team but i don't i think they're probably a a regular season third or wild card team that's what i think third place in the division or wild card um i'm okay with that because summer 2026 looks to be a pretty good free agent class and i'm not just talking about mcdavid and caprizov um i'm fine with that i also think the leafs instantly and we'll wrap this show up in a second here took themselves out of the running for any opportunities that evolved during the season by consistently spending to the cap yeah so when you had dollar every dollar taken up plus ltir going into training camp there's no battles for spots

although i have to give true living credit he has battles in the training camp now which which dubas never did dubas set it up like it was an ea nhl team and that's the way it's going to be terrible with with with true living you're seeing hey you're gonna fight for this you're gonna fight for your spot i love that yes then if you go into the regular season let's say you got 10 million dollars in cap space okay whoa he didn't spend in the cap now Carolina didn't spend but they took advantage of Colorado's opportunity when Mikko Rantanen became available and going into this season going into the season previews if I had told you at the Colorado season preview Mikko Rantanen does not end this season with the Colorado average you guys have been blown away yeah the

Leafs need to open themselves up to that you need to open yourself up to a Pierre-Luc Dubois for darcy kemper situation or or or jake chikrin on the last year of his deal and you get him for a second round pick or a sam bennett not working out with his team and you get him for a second round how about a deal that's not just a buy or a sell there's other kinds of trade well that's what i'm saying right like that's like dubois for kemper it's not a buy it's not a problem yeah it's crazy that it was problem for problem one of those problems got nominated for the vesna and the other problem dubois has been pretty good yeah oh maybe you know no he's been great he's been He's been very good.

Eight million's a lot. The Leafs shouldn't be too quick to spend the 10.9 that Marner's making. Have that cap flexibility to do something. It's 10.904 because it was 10.893 and it got fixed because of COVID. He had to get his junior number in there. I think it's a great point.

Having that cap flexibility is something they haven't had in a decade of Leafs hockey. So I feel like it'll be important going into this season. And if you want to get assets back, why not play a facilitator role too? You can do that, too.

Use your head. Yep. Get creative. I promise you, there are moves you can make. Jesse? Wrapping it up. By the way, Freddie Anderson is starting for the Carolina Hurricanes tonight. Oh, they went back.

Wow. They did. I thought the checkout was way better, but okay. Until he super de-duper wasn't. But he got 40 good minutes. Freddie has not had 20. So. Oh.

S-T-E-P. The Steve Dangle Podcast. Follow the guys on Twitter, at Steve underscore Dangle, at Adam W-Y-L-D-E, and at Jesse Blake. Connection complete.