The Steve Dangle Podcast - Källgrezina | March 16, 2022

Episode Date: March 16, 2022

On this episode of The Steve Dangle Podcast, Erik Källgren shuts out the Dallas Stars in his 1st career start (00:00), Adam is tired of the John Tavares hype (15:00), evaluating the Leafs lineup moving forward (28:00), will the Colorado Avalanche place Gabriel Landeskog on LTIR and perform cap shenanigans? (37:00), the Vegas Golden Knights can't stop losing (45:30), Moritz Seider is too young to win the Calder (55:00), Peter Holland announces his retirement on Twitter (1:00:00), Frank Seravalli joins Agent Provocateur (1:15:00), and the old man trophy award (1:26:00). Originally aired: March 16, 2022 Watch the full episode here: https://youtu.be/8YCSgUSRglk Visit https://sdpn.ca for merch and more. We've joined The Athletic and you can too! Hit the link to subscribe: https://theathletic.com/sdp Visit this episode's sponsors: https://manscaped.com/ CODE: DANGLE https://www.edmunds.com/ https://www.workable.com/ https://betterhelp.com/sdp https://athleticgreens.com/SDP Follow us on Twitter:@Steve_Dangle, @AdamWylde, & @JesseBlake Follow us on Instagram:@SteveDangle, @AdamWylde, & @Jesse.Blake Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

i want to read for you a direct message that i got from pasmir chi pasmir chi now pasmir chi is a hockey nerd and they spell hockey nerd as one word and my profession is that i love cats hockey nerd and that my professionals love cats 14 followers following 138 people i got it and this is from saturday so saturday night saturday night or so saturday morning at 7 13 a.m because we were talking about shalgren we were talking about who is this guy hiya eric shalgren is not to be underestimated in the shl playoffs eric shalgren actually won the championship for the, is it Vasho Lakers? Vasho. Vasho Lakers after former Oilers goalie Victor Faust went down with a career-ending injury in the semifinals against Orbero, my hometown.

Eric Shogren was absolutely, in caps, outstanding for the Lakers and arguably the reason they won the championship in 14 playoff games. He had a 1-7-4 goals against average and rocked a 9-30 basically a 9.30 save percentage. And I didn't respond to that because I get a lot of DMs and sometimes I can respond, sometimes I can't. Sometimes I don't see them. And then this morning at

10.08am, I get a message from Pamishri from Sweden. I gotta see this name. And all he says is, told ya. I haven't even responded to him. Professional

cat lady and then where's the name right there pamitri pamitri regardless pamitri was right eric shalgren was nothing to be messed with at least at least during one game and it was nice to see and it was sort of a relief we saw a goalie now give it the dallas stars can't score goals okay thank you for getting to that let's get this the dallas stars can't do anything offensively on a hockey rink no rick bonas is strangling his own team with the way they play that's just sort of how they are yeah they've been that for a couple years but it's it's awful in games like that it's weird like stylistically it's not good for offense but they have some guys who can score the hell out of goals also we it's also a little bit on rick bonus adam isn't wrong on that of course your

your coach is in charge of coaching the team and if your team can't do anything offensively it's time to change the draft they're currently 17th in the league in goals for which isn't good because the next closest teams are chicago buffalo and arizona and i think they're five on five goals four is like awful it's like bottom ten is it or organizationally though like it's a decision you know what i mean like it's not just the coach there isn't a disconnect they've decided we will not score and we will win but well the islanders tried that and it worked Right. Until it didn't.

But the Leafs are like their defensive kryptonite as well. The Leafs have these weird rally games where they figure out, oh, defense. Oh, you wanted to do that. Where they listen to the Arkells beforehand. Oh, yeah. That's the only reason. That's the only reason. And the Arkells show up at another Canadian event.

You know, when the Leafs finally win, you know what they're going to say? They're going to say it was the Arkells. No, they're going to say it was years in the making. oh because that's their new song what was promoted in hamilton and they've got their show which is the years in the making show in hamilton right okay i see what you did there yeah no so they have these rally games i'm super happy for eric sheldren um and here's the thankless part about being a goalie in the nhl all right do it again well yeah i mean listen i think i think you're absolutely right yeah okay do it again and peter morazic by the way is out in his saint

paddy's day pads today at morning skate so i think he's gonna get the next start yeah absolutely thursday and uh for first carolina st paddy's and and here's the thing right this is the carolina game here's why i think he should get it because you know i've had a bunch of detroit fans reach out and go listen you don't understand peter morassic the 9 10 save percentage that kyle dubas quoted is a mirage i think it was eiserman brz on twitter that was tweeting us about it i saw and and he said like listen it's it's it's a mirage he has games where he's absolutely unbeatable and then games where he he's played like he's played the entire season here in toronto i think he's wrong for the right reasons what do you mean if that makes sense well okay we clarified

it before like stylistically he's a nightmare he's a nightmare stylistically he doesn't do any of the things you're supposed to do 9 10 save percentage the 9 10 save percentage suggests that it comes out in the wash right yes this is not an elite goalie but he stops enough pucks generally to give his team a chance to win this is the worst hockey of his career right so we're talking about what marazic was versus what he is currently he's not an old man although he does have an injury history um i'm willing to believe he's better than this but holy shit like this isn't a goalie who's struggling because the puck is just it just happens to be finding ways by him this is a goalie who has no clue what he's doing right doesn't know where the post is but eric

shogren knew where the posts were last night sure did it was such a calm viewing experience i'm like oh look at him yeah you know uh what what do they what do they say about goalies they they they say uh you know joe bowen has a thousand nicknames for them they always say between the pipes what what do they say for peter marazic in the general vicinity of the face-off circle which one the center ice one or the hex or where is he the dude like he's halfway to being offside yeah a lot of times so but would you not agree and i'm sorry to interrupt you no but would you not agree jesse and steve and i want to ask you both this question it that peter marazic starting versus carolina on Thursday solves this

once and for all. Because if he has a bad game to me, and then Shalgrin follows that up with a good game, Peter Barazic is now third on your death chart. And second, until Jack Campbell comes back. I think we're already there, personally. Right, but don't you feel

like there's got to be that one final nail in the coffin? This is a guy on a three-year deal, right? When you have a three-year deal, when you're being paid this much, you do get a few extra chances than a rookie coming into the league. You know, like Like, Garrett Sparks didn't have a good run as the backup goalie for the Toronto Maple Leafs.

And he didn't get as many chances as Mrazek will get because he wasn't an established NHL player already. Right? Is that fair to say? Mrazek, if he was on an expiring contract, I don't think we'd ever see him again. Yeah, but he's got two years left, so you're right. You've got to make it work. It's against his former team, so that's a big one.

um you know and then if he plays an amazing game against carolina you have a fantastic problem i think i think they did it incorrectly i would have given shalgren a run here with uh with campbell out like i think yeah i think you probably should have because you know what you have in marazic you know what you have in campbell you don't know what you have in shalgren one game isn't enough so you take advantage of this and give them a little bit of run a couple games in a row and see what you got and then you evaluate the three goalies and you rank them but they're giving Mrazek back the net, which I think is kind of odd. Well, here's so

it's official. He's playing no, but he came out with the old school brown pads for the same pass because he ordered this because he ordered that shit doesn't mean he can't wear it on the bench, right? Okay. Okay. And that's fair. Yeah, because here's the

thing. Let's say he pitches an absolute gem against the Hurricanes. All right. So the Leafs entire deadline strategy is going to be around one good game against the Hurricanes. I mean, I mean, they've based it on less. They based Mike Babcock's job on one good game five against the Bruins. Yeah, and they were wrong.

It cost them millions of dollars wrong. And 20 games. And 20 games. So what I would say to that is your mind should be made up. Shalgren starts every game heading into the deadline, which is only two, by the way. And they're not doing that, it seems like. I would have given him Thursday,

And then if he's great on Thursday, then go again on Saturday. If he's hog shit Thursday, I give him Saturday. Yeah? I give him the full experience. It should have been three games, so you have something going into Monday and you know. Here's what you got. You got a defensive brute force team like the Dallas Stars. He shut them down.

You got a high-flying, high-octane offense like the Carolina Hurricanes. We'll see how he does. And then you give them the bright lights of Saturday night. I don't even know who they're playing. That's what I was about to double check. It doesn't even matter. Preds. That's a great evaluation game there as well.

It's a great evaluation game. I don't put any stock into what pads Mrazic is wearing today. He can wear them on the bench. And the Leafs can also order other pads, I'm sure. Of course. They can order pads in Shogren's size. And the other thing with Mrazic, though, is, and we sort of get a little bit tunnel vision at this time of year,

there are games after the deadline. like the leafs have what is a lot 22 games left 21 yeah and he can play some of those games yeah it's perfectly fine he can here's a great scenario the leafs could potentially head into the playoffs with a healthy jack campbell with a uh resurgent peter morazic and look at this found money in eric children who was a 904 in the ahl we didn't even know he was this good i give him give him the net give him the net for the next two games peter you had your shot wow i i agree where you just need to evaluate your talent okay you can't do that in practice you gotta do it in the game so and here's an opportunity with your number one goalie out to

just evaluate your backups and you need to take advantage of it especially going into Monday when you gotta make a decision I noticed something so the AHL it's so hard to look at the numbers and be like this is the player they are because you'd look at certain

players and be like oh they're god you look at TJ Brennan and that is Zeus holding lightning he's going to join the NHL and win the Norris and then you watch him and you're like oh that's why he's not here But the one statistical anomaly I found interesting, Hutchinson's a 9-0-1, Wohl is a 9-0-2,

Shulgren's a 9-0-4. They're almost identical in the AHL. Hutch has a record of 5-4-3, Wohl is 5-7, Shulgren is 15-8-1. So there's got to be something there. So yeah, maybe look at the record, right? And I know wins are a terrible way to evaluate goaltenders.

I know that. But it's not a great team, is it? They're fine. They're okay. They haven't been great since Greg Moore joined. They're fine. They don't have a ton of players under. They have a lot of AHL contracts on that team.

Right. And it's sort of unnecessary. Interesting. Well, I think they want their guys playing big minutes wherever they can. Like, they have a lot of guys in the KHL, VHL, MHL, Finland, Sweden. and maybe that all that maybe the khl part changes next year yeah well dimitri avchinikov has already come over to the marlies so i i think i think we're gonna stop seeing that i think there's an aspect of the leafs that they went heavily khl because of covid and they're like

all right everyone get the hell out of there yeah one thing that was interesting pre-game on sunday before the heritage classic when dupas was talking he mentioned he's like we have i'm i'm not necessarily looking for goaltending at the trade deadline which he's been saying this company line lie he's lies but when he was listing the goaltenders they have he threw in joseph wall he said they have shalgren they have uh marazic and they have wall and i was like he walls the odd man out but there's an opportunity for wall that i think he's missing out on because he doesn't seem to be in the running but if he was i guess better earlier in the year there would have been an opportunity for him to jump in and that's competitive sports right yeah good well

and be ready for your opportunity so this this is hilarious but wall and shalgren have started to combine five games for the leafs two shutouts that's so ridiculous they have a shutout each yeah but i don't want to forget about joseph wall he's still there he can still have a backup job i don't want to forget about him either and for shalgren it's a very small sample size i tell you what wool never made me as comfortable as shalgren did last night now wool was playing in the midst of the standard of all-star jack campbell and uh even i mean usable peter morazic uh shalgren is just like he's a he's a he's a pond and he's an oasis in the deserts like he's just we were all dying of thirst and he he quenched it last night but wall right now in his career

belongs in the minors shalgren i think this is his shot yeah shalgren he's a little ahead of wall in his development i guess but it's the conversation has been around wall more than shogren like absolutely shogren hasn't been on the radar at all wall's gotten the starts earlier in the year at least not to the average fan too right like the average fan is not like to be honest with you even the hardcore fans not many of them had heard not many of us had heard of eric shogren wall was my next guy a hundred percent so this this is uh tricky with the ahl is um we look at guys getting called up as oh this is where they are in the depth chart it's not always the case because i'm barely certain when wall got the call up um shalgren was hurt i think he had a concussion

um from earlier this year i'm not entirely sure um but they've sort of traded injuries the marlies have had nightmare injury luck over the over the last few years um i i like well i've year after year i say i believe in them um but this is this is shalgren's time in the nhl yeah it's it's it's fascinating to see now I'd like to talk about something that has arisen and I'm not totally sure why and I've said this I've said this for weeks now uh but for the I don't know how many seasons John Tavares has played but in every season except for last one which was shortened you know he has scored 20 goals or more and last night he got his 20th goal and last year by the way he had 19 goals in 56 games so he was on pace for 28 to 30 goals last year something like that

And he was still over a point a game. He has 20 goals. He's got 37 assists. Or sorry, last year he was just under. Can we do away with the John Tavares is A, washed up, or B, not worth the money narrative? You know, you could talk to me about, well, an $11 million contract should be worth this.

Well, it was free agency. He's an unrestricted free agent. When you buy an unrestricted free agency, you will overpay. Listen, he accepted less money. If he had been a San Jose Shark, and he could have been, he'd be making $13 million a year right now. He'd be the highest paid player in the NHL. That's what the Sharks offered him.

So just to put that into context. Now, John Tavares stepped up last night and was great, I thought. Absolutely, and he needed to. And he needed to because Austin Matthews is gone today. And he's really going to be gone against Carolina, which is going to be hard to deal with. That just occurred to me. That hurts, right? Carolina is just a killer team.

Unbelievable. God, that sucks. And John Tavares, every day, whether or not it's going in for him, goes in, plays defense. You ever hear about John? Well, that was a shitty defensive play by John Tavares. Do you ever hear that? Sometimes.

I mean, he's mortal. Right, but it's never like, you know what I'm talking about. He's not an idiot. Yeah. You're not terrified when he's out there. Here, I'll give you an example. Tyler Sagan had a horrible game last night. Yeah, and by the way, Tyler Sagan rolled into town with 299 career goals

and did not get 300 in Toronto. Shocked. You have to imagine. You have to imagine that he expected to. And a solid quarter of them are against the Leafs. Unbelievable. Crazy that he didn't get it. I want to once and for all put that to bed

because I think that that's just been one of those storylines that's been lingering out there. And for anybody that thinks that, my question is what does washed up mean to you? What is washed up truly? He had a couple of bad weeks. So did Nylander. Nylander's been great.

he's been okay he's been he's been better okay shitty game against me lander's been wandering a little i don't know you think so he's a little his passes are a little okay they're a little less crispy these days big time no he looks confused out there it's weird wow really you think so yeah i mean he's still he's getting his cookies the his shot is stupid stupid he still gets like one or two breakaways a game he always he's always the guy they're springing which is awesome but in the neutral zone and a little bit defensively he's he's kind of loosey-goosey so he's got you know he's got 56 Tavares has got 57 for your second line center and your second line right winger what team is unhappy with that in 60 games I think it's a chemistry issue right now and

people are conflating it with he's bad and I'm talking about Tavares I think casual fans have an issue with John Tavares the last season and a half I feel like that that thing's been bubbling up where they don't like the contract and they look at matthews and they're like this guy's making 11 million like that's that's you should be making a less trade every center in the league would look bad with the exception of conor mcdavid and sydney crosby would look bad next but i think a lot of casual fans just point to that simple thing and they're like he makes so much money and he's he's not the star you know you can move him for a big defenseman and i think that's a lot of a lot of the audience and it's not a correct take three guys matthews tavaris

marner they all make double digits well they're not going to complain about matthews he rules marner's been all right so we're gonna we're gonna carve marner oh wait oh he's playing the best hockey of his career wait who's the other guy uh taveras i think that's our guy we're gonna kill him yeah we're just gonna crucify him at every turn uh because and i get it like this is what comes with being the captain of a team, with making a lot of money. It's an honor bestowed upon the best.

We're not having a conversation like, guys bring it in. It's Alexander Kerfoot washed up. You don't have those conversations. No. You don't. Listen, he's great. He's great. Good game for him. So you're looking

for somebody to carve? That's the guy you carve? Not me. No, but obviously not you. but i'm talking about you we're talking about this narratives because people are saying it's been out there some people they they look at it and they nitpick that's the captain a lot of people think austin matthews should be the captain so they'll go at the guy as the captain he's that he's not he's the second star on the team in terms of production you know so there's a lot of things you nitpick but none of those things are valid it's a great player on a good contract i would

listen i would listen to somebody saying maybe it's time for devars to pass the captaincy to matthews i would listen to that and that's happened before peacefully sure and there has been harmony any of the land. Marner, sorry, Marlowe did it to Thornton. Thornton did it to, wasn't it Pavelski?

No. Brent Burns? No. I think it was Pavelski. Pavelski, Pavelski, you know what I mean? And they all played

on the same team together. I could listen to that argument, but don't tell me that John Tavares isn't good or worth his contract anymore. It's just factually incorrect. No, it's silly.

You need a guy. I get it. It's fine. Listen, I understand it a lot more if he played goalie, but he doesn't. He doesn't.

So let me let me run you through this just from just just straight up from the charts. Austin Matthews, Austin Matthews, like so these charts, the Dom decision puts together a lot of yellow. Right. So what's what's that one that it will. Jesus, dude, I can't read GSV. A Steven. Sorry, GSV. Yeah.

Goals saved. I forget. What is it? I don't know what it is either. I keep forgetting ideas. There it is. I forget. Here, we'll do this.

Game score value added. Game score value added. Sorry, there's a similar one for goaltending. There you go. So I was like, wait, how does this apply to Matthews? Right. So Matthews is a 5.8. I think McDavid at the beginning of the season was like a 5.9.

They're like a tenth away from each other right now. Marner's a 4.2. Sorry, what? what is that good it's very the highest you can be i think is like a six or a six four or something it's like some ridiculous number marner four two bunting is a three two now i think some of that's inflated because he's playing with them i'll give you that i still think he deserves the call to calder kneelander a two two and and tavaris a two six can i talk about something with dom's work yeah is uh these these charts that dom does and money puck they've been getting some negative

press recently and the reason is because people use them wrong they just they just tweet out the the card and go see better look at this right very good i do that sometimes yeah no totally but it's dumb and provides no context which dom will provide in abundance right like that's why we don't call them dumb decision hey hey that would be a dumb decision anyway sorry no like uh listen like well i guess the card ends up on free twitter yeah and the explanation is behind the bay wall but like just don't have such a passionate opinion about the card if you didn't read it so if you didn't read the article that went with but pure part of what i really like about this is it actually talks about the market value of certain players here's

what their salary is here's what their market value is based on this model doll's models are pretty good so like austin matthews his salary is 11.6 his market value if there was no cap and he was paid properly can you hazard a guess 15 jesse hazard a guess uh 16 19.4 million oh wow mitch marner 10.9 million what's his market value 14 17 14.3 steven hey okay let's go uh michael bunting here's how this will be so i i know this one okay well tell me what it is jesse what do you he makes a million bucks what's eight okay eight million market value 11.4 11.4 million william nylander salary seven million market value guys what do you think neil uh nine jesse bunting was 11 yeah 11.4 so i'm gonna go 13 it values at nylander at an eight

but here's where the Tavares one's interesting remember what I told you and this is again I'm cherry picking from Dom's charts and in no way doing this justice but I wanted to show the market value for Tavares remember his salary is 11 his market value according to Dom's charts is 9.4 million

oh I was going to say 11 no it's not 11 but and that's a quote unquote overpay I don't even think that includes last night's stats but if that is if you're overpaying a guy who would probably be the number one center on 25 of 32 teams a million dollars a year are you upset about that no so i just want to put that to bed because i think it's ridiculous it's absolutely

insane dom does not believe michael bunting should be paid 11 points no he doesn't and i think that's also part of it right this is a model that he is constantly working on okay yeah yeah so sorry i'm not talking to you no i don't know no no i get it i totally get it so long story short i just think Tavares needs to I think we need to back off the Tavares thing and what you need to focus on if anything's not good enough it's well I'd like to see the fourth line

make more of their minutes you want to talk about something they were good last night they were Kyle Clifford without Wayne train it made me uncomfortable when do we send them out to pasture Jesse how dare you he's got another year yeah it's variable though

mostly yeah but I don't want to I don't think you bury it you know he's never playing a game in the nhl he can be your 13th forward yeah i don't mind that him and clifford are but i gotta say kyle clifford played like he wanted a spot in the lineup he played fresh yeah also there have been a couple guys on that fourth line recently who don't belong kerfoot kerfoot and kasha like they don't they super don't belong there so that's helping to make it look good um clifford based on that one game i think it's uh extended kyle clifford look time kyle clifford needs to play once a week i don't think at least yeah but you gotta give him

a couple games in order to see what he what he does but i forgot he existed once you once you sit tight with your lineup kyle clifford isn't in there every day i don't i think you'll you'll waste his energy like that i think you bring him in every and the 40s messing me up by the Nazem Clifford here. It's messing me right up. And underratedly, Nick Robertson had a really good game. Well, his brother was there. Did you see his mom picked the Leafs jersey to wear

rather than the Stars jersey? She had the Stars hat. She had the Stars hat. She had a Stars hat on and a Leafs jersey. By the way, her name's not before. It's in Toronto. I just want to throw this out there. Okay, you guys are both siblings, right?

You guys are siblings. I've never had to do this. With each other. But Jesse, sure do you think that your parents would have if it was you and your sister going head-to-head in a professional sport yeah whose jersey are they wearing uh are you picking barter lisa they're doing both they're doing are they gonna do both they'll do one aware one or uh they'll do split down the middle jersey have you seen those i always thought franken jersey oh yeah

the franken jersey is horrific parents know how to do things yeah i don't know i just i remember it reminded me of a moment and the reason i asked is you know sometimes i think parents go defer to the younger sibling a little bit because the younger sibling came along later and needs a little time or whatever and somehow that carries over into adulthood. But it reminded me of when Rob and Scott Niedermeyer were going head-to-head in the Stanley Cup Finals.

2003, I was just about to say that. Ducks, Devils. Yep. And Scott, they talked to the mom who was in the box and they said, who are you rooting for? She's like, well, Scott's already got one of these, so I'm cheering for Rob. And he was a monster in those playoffs, right?

He was really good. He was, man, that was the little team that could. It was. That was Babcock. J.S. Jaguar and his band of merry men. Yeah. That was Mike Babcock, though. Was it?

Yeah. Pretty sure. And he won the Conn Smythe in a losing effort. Last guy to ever do it. That's pretty amazing. Question for you guys. I wanted to ask about the third line, which has been steady Eddie all winter long. And it doesn't seem to matter who's on it.

It's always David Conf is playing well. And he always gets like a chance a game, which is shocking to me. Short-handed, too. yeah they're awesome shorthanded i love them so what my question is what of mckay of conf engvall and kasha do you like the best what combo do you like the best because i like the mckay of conf kasha thing but the problem is in that situation i always find that it's mckay of that gets sprung and then you may as well close your eyes because it's not going it man he i know he's so fast i know he he's so fast and i know he's got 11 goals and he got his

goal last night but like can be on ilia mckay has stone hands a hell of an empty netter was that oh he earned the empty netter yes you know what he's underrated bang and crash guy okay a lot of his goals have come from in front of the net and i mean we know he's going to be the first one there um so that's good but yeah the the breakaway i mean he'd be better off hard stopping and just taking a slap shot ideally for me robertson's not in the lineup really yeah i and then i run with uh probably kasha up with uh willie and jt yeah well and then or kerfoot you keep clifford over robertson because what do you have robertson on the fourth line for yeah so why do you ideally not have him in the lineup i don't think he's there yet i think no i think robertson needs

some more seasoning i he runs around a lot which is fun but i don't think it's the type of hockey the least newbie playing in the playoffs and i think there's more talented forwards who are who will help you win four to seven because that's the whole goal here and i think kasha needs to be a little higher in the lineup and um you're not going to waste kerfoot's minutes kerfoot's so talented um and robertson's the odd man out to me he's not going to play on the fourth line like he's like that should be clifford or simmons he's going to come back next year and be an absolute monster who's that robertson robertson but he's not there yet no uh you know the you know sometimes you oh injury prone i mean what's he gonna do do there are there any push-ups you can

do for your bones he broke his leg man like i think he's a he's a super hard work and determined kid um i think he's gonna be first in the gym last out and he's gonna be great next year we're We're just not there yet. I just want to shout Jesse out here for being Nostradamus because David Alter, friend of the show, just tweeted at the practice lines for today. Okay, so you got Bunting, Tavares, Marner, obviously. Nylander, Kerfoot, Kasha.

There you go, yeah. And Robertson is back on the fourth line with Clifford and Spezza. So that's one guy that can skate, one guy that can shoot, and one guy that can kill you. Is Simmons still out? Simmons is still out, and Matthews is suspended. Those are the two extras at practice. and and then robertson is on the fourth line he is on the fourth line okay i mean you can still

use him the fourth line can be used as like storage yeah that's basically what they did with kasha self-storage yeah it's here you're gonna be storage and also yeah here second power play so so i gotta ask you this because there is more combinations that i want to talk about but last night they tried the riley labushkin uh lineup together and then you have He flattened Jason. It's funny how little we talk about the defense when there's competent goaltending. Spear and shield.

Everything kind of works out when you got somebody who stops a puck. So do you like LaBushkin Riley? So far. I mean, it was one game. And TJ Brody moves over to the left side. Yep. Plays with Justin Hall. I don't love that.

Yeah, it was weird. Okay. But we're trying stuff, right? Yep, I get it. And then Sandin and Lilligren, who have played together a lot this year. I think they've had really good results considering how old they are. Lilligren's got five assists in his last six games. Sandin with the hands.

We were talking about that fucking goal. That goal was insane. After a big hit. Doesn't he have like a point streak growing or something? He scored a lot in the last five, six games. Sandin as well. I don't know. It's difficult because it's been broken up by the injury.

Yes. Yeah. But I just, I think that, you know, we talk a lot about Matthews and Bunting and some of the other success stories here. But Sandin and Lilligren look like guys that you cannot scratch every night and they're like 21 and 22 yeah and they're defensemen that is rare and they're playing together lilligran needs to be used correctly i think we've discovered

that um i just don't like him in front of his own net like that's my big complaint with him that's a problem you could fix by the way oh yeah and like uh his offensive instincts are good his neutral zone instincts are good generally his decision making is good i just don't like him in front of the net so he's probably not a great partner for muzzin you know what i mean that's fine that's fine i uh am looking forward to the battering ram of muzzin labushkin all of a sudden the leafs have a very good problem on defense because if we're looking at the projected lineups for late in the season or the playoffs it's i think you go back to riley brody that has always worked well yeah and then you have muzzin labushkin labushkin and then

sandy lilligren and if you're asking holland dermot to stay out that's not bad if you're asking holland to stay and you're asking dubas to go get somebody on monday who's that guy who does he replace you is it an issue anymore do you take that and you go get a defense you go get a goaltender i don't know well are we asking lubas to get a defenseman anymore there's you're going out and getting that middleton from the sharks middleton's such just a guy no he's good the leafs want him so he's good i heard uh i think it was like last week or whatever colorado was in on middleton as well there's a couple teams that are better so am i breathing heavily yeah i was trying to do it subtly but sorry i'm having i'm having problems i guess it's because it's spring ish so

My nose has been clogged up lately, so I apologize for bringing you just your hover right here I know I'm sorry. I'm a heavy breather and I've gone to like your nose and throat guys are like there's nothing wrong I'm like there is there's something wrong. Yeah, don't tell me that Middleton's a guy he's the report. He's the guy stay at home defenseman type, you know But the where does he fit in the lineup? Who are we kicking out for Middleton? Listen, listen This is all I have on the mind. Jesse singularly focused package with Reimer well

so is that is that is that out there oh it's just something I want badly that's all except

does it make sense yes it does fuck it I want it how does it make sense he's a very good goalie and I love him that's how it makes sense

eat shit so the rumor from LeBron was that Jacob Middleton would cost a second-round pick.

Okay, never mind. For the Leafs to acquire him. He's 26, final year of a two-way contract. That's 725. So, like, Middleton could be an extra defenseman, but for... That's an astronomical price. Second-round pick for your seventh defenseman.

Full marks for asking. Sure. Sure. I mean, it's a rumor worth looking into because Dubas does do deals with the Sharks. Do you guys want the stat that's highlighted on Middleton's resume? This is on what? The score?

Let's go. No. Six blocked shots per six. What? Wow. That's a lot of blocked shots per six. I don't know if that's good. That's a lot.

Yeah, it's a lot, but that usually means you're in the defensive zone and have two blocked shots. That means that you're not controlling the puck. That's the debate between Corsi versus Fenwick, right? because you know you could argue yeah you don't have the puck so it's bad that you're blocking shots or you could argue well it's a skill it's a skill that not everyone can do or is willing to do you know and that's that's just the difference in ideology really i mean who's not losing their mind for a great block shot oh it's great the problem is is that you don't want it to be your

highlight stat because again well who's not losing their mind for a 50 save performance I love a big hit but I don't want to leave the league and hits yeah means I don't have the puck I know you mean sure I don't mind the Leafs getting a two-way defenseman who makes 725 that's a good

deal if Dubas goes out and gets a Jacob middle not I don't mind it but not for that price by the way we're in fourth it's all good we're in big show getting spoiled by a trade territory so you think something's gonna happen well it's just we got today and we got friday right and there's i just i feel um

you know the wood on the dam it's creaking midday friday trades are a thing they are yeah it's ready to it's ready that dam is ready to burst yeah because what what did we get we got the josh manson trade and we got there was another jost jost yeah it's a small one but it's uh that's that's the that's the uh the tremor before the full for drew for drew and also patrick kane i saw that i saw the people punching patrick kate into the avalanches lineup calm down avalanche fans producer drew um yeah yo you could have you can have jeru producer drew can i but you can't have patrick i knew drew was in a meeting when that trade broke so i was just like texting him,

texting him, texting him. Drew has been heavy on the Twitter lately. Because. He's like aggressive on the Twitter. Because he's anxious.

He knows this is a big year for the Avs. Yeah, it felt like projection. That's what it feels like, Producer Drew. It feels like with the Avs fans, it's like,

this is really great. This is really great. I sure hope this works. Because this team was unstoppable last year. Yeah. They were unstoppable the year before.

And I think a little bit the year before but what happened each time no drew they were stopped drew showed his hand yesterday the abs fans are not thinking this is really great what they're thinking is it's not going to get better than this and they're right they got cadre final year uh it's either this year or next year nathan mckinnon's best contract in the league expires can you explain the strong the strom yost trade anyway like what's that oh stern stern yeah what's that do um yost uh has a higher ceiling um and is younger than stern stern is older but they're both basically the same guy um like in terms of where they fit in the lineup like their bottom bottom line center

basically can i tell you the whole purpose of the contract please do 1.275 million dollars that's what it is they traded contracts so the the wild probably get the better player probably um and if he's not now he's going to be but he costs far more money right so the avs save money on the cap i don't know what it so they can make another move yeah people are like man they have saved 1.2 million no they didn't because it's march right they saved whatever the rest of the season Their deadline cap space is nearing $3 million. It's like $2.9. But since we're on Avs talk.

And Landeskog is on. We have to talk about their shenanigans. Dude, why not? Gabe Landeskog is shenanigans. Are you kidding me? You're telling me he could have taken surgery in the offseason if he wanted to. If today was game one of the playoffs, he wouldn't have had surgery. He would have been out there playing.

Yes, but hockey players are out of their minds. and they play with grotesque injuries all the time i believe that he needed this surgery because hockey players are crazy when did he need it uh probably months ago yeah okay so why did they delay it till now so they could get some extra cast spaces then you can come back for the playoffs here's why i i tend to even though it's bullshit i will agree with you that it's bullshit but it's justified bullshit it's justified a tampa did it and they won uh b vegas is kind of a cautionary tale because oh we're gonna talk about vegas that's the whole thing well footmarks okay this is all i'll say about it but they put their captain on uh ltir

and all of a sudden like they're maybe not gonna make the freaking playoffs here uh but yeah we'll get we'll get to them later land of scog i believe i believe i believe what i believe that he's a hockey player with messed up knees yeah i believe that too i believe he needs surgery and it's very convenient timing and it's not a point on the colorado avalanche for not there didn't break any rules for taking advantage of the rules it's on the nhl for creating dumb rules this is this This is another example of the ridiculousness of how the cap is structured and how having guys injured is advantageous to your team if the guys come back and just play.

It's only advantageous. Here's the thing. I think it creates disparity because it favors the good teams. Bad teams can't afford to do this. Good teams can because the abs are – I mean, Gabriel Landeskog is a fantastic player, and he's the team's captain, and they're barely going to miss him because they're that good and they're that deep. Is he going to be back, though? He's coming back, right?

They don't have an exact date. It's going to be like Arthur Scott, probably, so it's not going to open up his knee and he'll rehab and all that. They think he'll be there for the playoffs. I'm just trying to make sure that people know that because knee surgery can mean a lot of different things. Right, yeah. It could be like PCL and career shortening. It totally could be like scope. It needs to be on number one on the list when they renegotiate the CBA is to fix this because it's getting ridiculous to the way we're looking at guys going out for injuries and timing them perfectly so that you get a cap advantage.

At a certain point, a luxury tax makes a lot more sense, doesn't it? Well, like why? Like why are we doing this? Yeah. Because it already exists. It exists for the rich teams. like just to put it into context what if the leafs were just like uh yeah peter marazic's hurt for the next two years

and then they can just like we're talking about teams acquiring shea weber's contract like it's an awesome idea like we there should be no scenario whether it's for the rich teams of the poor teams where we're like it's great this team is acquiring this player who does not play anymore it doesn't make any sense and why why the better the player the greater the benefit yep yep you know what i mean kucherov makes nine and a half and the lightning go hell yeah our mvp's out lots we can do with that yeah yeah well yeah i think if you're deep you can but i'm with you jesse i think there's a there needs to be a fix but i would also say that the rich teams who control the league do not want this to be fixed because it's a cheat code yeah see

is it the rich teams or is it because like i thought the teams in charge are the cheap ones well they saw they all spend in the cap though yeah but jeremy jacobs is cheap he doesn't want to spend above the cap you know what i mean but he does montreal does toronto does new york does not that okay you're what that's one team there's an executive yeah of eight teams jeremy jacobs despite despite the jeremy jacobs iron fist we do know that he can be outvoted real life mr burns yes 100 yeah and for for just clarification on joe sackick's dealings he has not utilized the ltir on landis cock just yet he hasn't utilized it uh for uh gerard either like he has those both guys and he hasn't he can throw them both on ltir and get 12 about 12 million dollars in cap space

if they stay out to the playoff that's real bad news on gerard by the way oh yeah but he's gonna be back his timetable is before the playoffs so that's why they're not doing shenanigans with him back injury yeah that's you know what it reminds me of gardner oh like he'll be back but how back will he be for the rest of his career because the back injury not necessarily for the rest of his career but definitely this season you can expect a sub-optimal sam gerrard i have a friend named steve dangle who has back injuries and i don't expect him to return to the nhl anytime soon do you know how hard i've worked to get my back to be somewhat adequate like holy shit man i i can't imagine i don't know how you play hockey with a bad back it's the way of carrying uh carrying a

whole network on your back anyways i had such a good workout yesterday landis gog isn't on the LTIR just yet. He might be very soon, but he's not there yet. And if they do, they can get like $7 million for him just to use the couch for the deadline. Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong on Land of Skog this week. It said he was going to get fined, and then

he did not. And the knee surgery happens on Monday, so they get some clarification on that, I believe. Let's talk about this. Let's talk about those Golden Knights. Let's talk about how the Golden Knights have lost five games in a row. Jack Eichel's Vegas Golden Knights.

You go Sabres fans and apology, you piece of shit. Let's talk about how the Vegas Golden Knights have won five of their last 15. Let's talk about how the Stars are one point behind them with four games in hand. Leafs did you a big favor, Vegas. Now, Robin Leonard is out with an injury, is he not? I think he is, but also he's been bad. Frank Cervalli. They need a goal.

Frank Cervalli mentioned earlier a couple weeks ago that they had expressed some interest now the Golden Knights vehemently deny this they had expressed interest in Marc-Andre Fleury that is so interesting so listen if the Golden Knights

hadn't gotten rid of Marc-Andre Fleury they would not have Jack Eichel right now right that's true so that like it just wouldn't have been possible to do that and I say got rid of because they traded him for literally nothing yeah um and he found out on twitter i forgot the guy's name that used to be my favorite trivia thing and now i don't even remember it what

do you mean the guy who they traded him for oh yeah i was like who knows he's finished that's all i know yeah who knows who cares and i just think it's funny how how a team that gave up the goalie that won the vesna for nothing is now struggling with goaltending issues and and listen i want the golden knights to succeed it's a fun fan base you want jack eichel to succeed that's a fun storyline right and i don't think you could pin this one on jack i just got back from neck surgery eichel yeah seriously like people like oh this guy sucks i'm like okay all right you go go do anything after a neck surgery talk to me he's playing particularly admirably considering considering he like is recovering from neck surgery and hasn't played hockey in

like a year right i don't want to give kelly mccrimmon like oh i don't want to cut him a break you know i don't want to be like he's benefited out mr mccrimmon but the vegas golden knights over the last like month have put an all-star team on ltir and like that's none of it's their fault oh uh elliot friedman was going through their ltir on yeah on 32 thoughts i was like because i was like oh man does vegas suck now and then he went through the list i'm like holy shit so currently a cup contender currently out for the vegas golden knights robin lenner riley smith brayden mcnab matthias yenmark brett howden mark stone alec martinez jake bischoff that's that's a team and a half like how are you supposed to contend when you got

I don't even know how many guys. Three, six, seven, eight guys who should be in your lineup out of the lineup. I'll tell you how. Eight guys. You put them all on LTIR and you go load up for the trade deadline. Take eight Leafs off the roster. Oh, they're going to be terrible. Tell me they're going to make the garbage. They're going to be actual garbage.

They don't have Jack Campbell right now and Austin Matthews isn't in the lineup and I'm like freaked out. Yeah. I want a camera crew to follow around the post-deadline tandem of robin lenner and james reimer you think that's what's gonna happen my favorite odd couple buddy cop movie ever oh they'd be so cute together could they be more different i'm not sure but

they're very kind both of them yeah but very different types of kind yeah i want to see it oh yeah okay i think the real buddy cop movie would be james reimer mike smith oh yeah right you know but like this you know shoving buddies a little bit of that but um they need a goalie They don't necessarily need a world beater. Yeah, you can't do it with Logan Thompson and Laurent Boussois. You can't. I don't know who Logan Thompson is. There you go.

That's what I'm saying. Those are their goalies. By the way, they had to pull one of them and put the other one in. Who got pulled? Who cares? It doesn't matter. That's what happened last night. Oh, heavens.

When you let the Winnipeg Jets steamroll you 7-3 at the end of a 5. This is your fifth game in a row you're going to lose, and they steamroll you. Now, again, Jesse, I think you're absolutely right. It's difficult when that many players are out. Especially Pacioretty, Leonard, Stone, Martinez. Those are big, big names on this team. Even Riley Smith was having a year.

He was. He was. Really good player. Former Leaf Michael Amadio still has a spot in the lineup. I love it. How crazy is that? Who do they have? They had like three Leafs fourth line centers.

They had Adam Brooks at one point. And I think Adam Brooks is now in Winnipeg. Yes. Which is his home city. That's right. That's nice for him. But all that to say, I do find it. I'm going to watch with interest.

Because here's the thing. Do you think it's funny how? If you have a goaltender there that's competent, maybe you lose three of five, but you didn't lose all five. They need points. They need points of any kind. They need points right now. You can't help the fact that you've lost this many players to injury,

but if you have a confident goaltender, you're going to probably still make the playoffs, considering where they started. But this is already pass-damaged, right? This is a problem. They are in free fall right now. And the Stars just really nipping at their heels. Dude, the Canucks are right in there, too.

Yeah, they're making a run. Canucks are one point back. man the Canucks making the playoffs what a story that would be they've just been hanging around Jim Benning would be like I was right the whole time yeah oh yeah I told you they could see idiots Edmonton hires him as their next GM that's right Oilers fans I just put that on you Edmonton who's been the beneficiary of everybody around them being kind of awful you know they've what have they made but what have they made of it jesse like last night um they won uh even though koskinen allowed five goals like detroit has a brand don't they detroit

is so good at scoring so many goals and allowing a lot of how did thomas okay thomas grice was pulled in the first five minutes oh so it was grice yeah and then nadalkovich comes in and lets another one in before the end of the third or first like it's that tandem is it's it's rice was good and adelkovich was good what happened when they put on the red wing jersey they played for the red wings i guess but are they that i mean listen i think if there's one person you can pin this on it's more insider which is why he shouldn't win the calder trophy amen am i right amen am i right garbage player right people people are like hey bunting didn't score last night i guess cider's in the lead uh did you see him play in the game

Sider actually looked I've got a new take I'm just giving it I got a new take on the Calder trophy More at Sider's too young To win the Calder How about that one What if we do that anti-take

Now tell me how that would work If we were to take that position Lawyer Jesse Blake Tell me how you would argue that in court Sider, he's too young To win the Calder is my premise right you know i i think he's there's no experience there the calder trophy should go to somebody who has learned the nhl game before getting the nhl no within this first

year of the nhl it's a rookie it's a rookie trophy within his first year at 19 he's not mature enough out there he doesn't have the skill set developed i get he's putting up the points yeah but his brain his attitude at that ripe age and 19 isn't quite there and i want to give it to the guy who's 26 who's an adult in his first year in the nhl has learned to be an nhl a professional because that's what this is about it's about playing the game of hockey as a professional and more insiders out there like he's still in junior yeah i rest my case your honor adam more insider wins the calder all right let's let's have this scenario he probably gets some sort of bonus i think you do get a calder bonus don't you probably he uh goes to the nhl awards

yeah wins the calder wins calder uh-huh goes up there he accepts the award yeah when he goes backstage uh he sees all his friends and family after that his friends and family all want to go out to celebrate right and then uh what what's something that you celebrate with alcohol go to jail oh so he's got he can't do it so he'll have to go to chucky cheese to celebrate yeah it's like the rest of us unless it's in canada in that case don't go to jail by the way straight to jail i heard this crazy historical fact can i just tell you guys something this is crazy let me hear so the drinking age in the united states used to be 18 i don't know and it used to be 18 in canada as well because you were an adult and could hold a gun and go to war why can't you have a drink it's

18 in a lot of parts of canada just not this one yeah not this one which is also stupid it gets like even younger in some places isn't it like 70 in some provinces i don't know about that i don't think so no i think it was like i think it's adults uh and in europe it's it's like 12 if you're italian you've like chugged wine you know but you don't never got a clear answer like when i was in the uk i'm like so what is drinking age here they're like but but apparently and i don't know i haven't looked into this but apparently the reason it's 21 in the states because is because ronald reagan in the early 80s like ultra conservative guy came in and wanted to up the drinking age because they thought it would help people from bit or

stop people from binge drinking in college and focus on their studies and so what he did was he said to all the all the states unless you um up your drinking age you're not getting any money for your highways and infrastructure this year wow and then they all basically turned on it and did it well now they got their highways isn't that crazy switch it back yeah switch switch it back And apparently also there's been studies done and it leads to more binge drinking when you can't drink till you're 21. Isn't that crazy? I just thought that was nuts. I'm like, that is so stupid.

I cannot believe that happened. Drinking is more fun when it's illegal. It is way more. It stopped being fun the second I turned 19. If Detroit was really smart, they would create a cider that's cider cider when he turns 21. And then you could celebrate with cider cider. Go drinking at 21. Well, I like a good cider.

Two seasons from now. When he's, I don't know, still up for the Calder because they're mad about bunting, so they changed the criteria and you're allowed to win it for five different years. You know, maybe then. But right now, too young. You could start a good pub and you could call it More Eats and Cider. What? Oh, man.

I would do that in Detroit. I would do More Eats and Cider. I don't know. Yeah, come on. So you get some good food, you get some cider. I'm upset, but he's right. I mean, come on. that's a perfect business opportunity more eats cider comma cider yeah it's just a list of the

things that you like yeah eat a lot and drink cider cider i like it come on big guys fall come on big in the fall big money ideas here coming out of this cranium i want to read you guys something that broke during the show it's a press release from peter holland and i read this because i'm like i wonder if there's anything interesting in here peter holland peter holland Like the former Toronto Maple Leaf? Oh. Former, I believe, Anaheim Duck, Arizona Coyote. And he was the guy that the Leafs brought in.

Ranger. When they had no centerman. No. And we were really hoping Peter Holland, he's a former first round pick. We were really hoping that he was going to. Peter, do you want a spot in an NHL lineup? Yeah, sure. Do we have an opportunity for you?

100%. You're going to be first line center tomorrow. So Peter Holland sends this out. Said, press release. I have decided to step away from the game of hockey. it feels weird to say retire, but I guess that's what it is. I'm not sure if a Twitter thread is an appropriate form to announce this, but when you're a bubble guy, there's no press conference or banner raising or puck drop, et cetera. So here it is. It's strange to think that something

which has been a part of me since before I can remember will no longer be a part of my future. This was not an easy decision, but in order to be honest with myself, it was time to confront the reality that hockey had become unenjoyable for me. I was no longer committed to getting better. And therefore, I was getting worse. It was an unsustainable trajectory, not only for my career, but also for my mental health. And therefore, it was better to stop altogether. Also, life comes at you fast. With a young family of my own having to pack up every six to eight months and being away from extended family, sometimes as far as 10 hours apart, just wasn't worth it anymore. But perhaps more importantly, and don't worry, guys, I'm getting to the part

where I think you'll find extremely interesting. I'm doing it on my own terms with my health, something not to be taken for granted, especially after playing a highly competitive physical game professionally for over a decade and not to mention 15 years before that. Admittedly, my passion for the game really fell off a cliff the moment I was traded out of Toronto. I could never rekindle that spark I had when wearing a Leaf jersey. It was like my hockey path was always destined to allow me to wear my boyhood colors, the blue and white. And wow, am I ever blessed to have gotten that opportunity. Once that was over, it was as though I had accomplished the pinnacle of all my hopes and dreams did i dream of hoisting a stanley cup heck yeah but as a boy uh to even make it to the

nhl was a long shot so what are the odds i was going to get to play for my team too there's just some things in the world that you can't explain and so he goes on to talk about um his family being a part of the community uh working with sick kids i remember actually peter holland and the toronto maple leafs were sort of like locked in a will they won't they rfa conversation but he still came into breakfast television repping the toronto maple leafs talking about sick kids and was really great that morning he and believe me not every professional athlete's great at 6 a.m and he was spectacular i remember we had like a tongue-in-cheek thing with him where the leaf sent him to everything because he was the local guy who lived there yeah back when there weren't

a ton of those now there's lots yep but uh yeah he was a local guy who wanted to be there at a time where no one really wanted to be there finally if i can offer my advice and this is an 18 tweet thread so i'm not going to read the whole thing so finally if i can offer my advice to parents of young hockey players out there, let them decide how much they want to play. I played multiple sports growing up. It was never just hockey. I played flag football, basketball, volleyball, competed in track and field, golf, and competitive soccer. I truly believe I loved hockey as long as I did because I didn't burn out of it. If your kids are lucky enough for hockey to become a job, that's great, but I promise they'll miss those days when it

wasn't. That's it. Thanks for reading and taking part in my Twitter press retirement conference. so peter holland i thought it was interesting and i think the way it ended in toronto you have to look at the way his career ended in toronto differently it's terrible well it's because mike babcock came in and and mike is one of those guys who decides he doesn't like you and then there's no way to win for those of us who don't know how it ended can you go through how well so you know how there was freevo with josh levo and frank free frank corrado peter holland got that treatment too it just wasn't as high profile and the i think the torture for him is uh peter holland's time with the toronto maple leafs was done long before he was traded yeah and

uh i don't think that was necessarily his fault he was on a different and rebuilding team with coach that didn't want him uh very obviously didn't want him um and at that point you're looking for an opportunity to get into the lineup um or you're looking at what is best for your career and that's to get traded and sure enough you know he goes the arizona coyotes and a week or two later he's back in toronto scores the shootout winner yes i remember oh and so toronto of maple leaves for a guy to come back and do that which was a big tv moment for me that was that was hilarious because before the game i literally said how how on the pregame show i said how is he gonna do it and they like sort of followed it throughout the show and they're like

oh my god he was right no of course i was right i'm a leaf fan i go with the worst case scenario and then it happens it's not that hard um but uh i'm i'm i'm sad for him that that's the way it went i hate hearing that story and i've heard it from a lot of guys um remember the story of stephan legion so i sort of remember it i remember watching him play for team canada and stuff but can you can you give me that so stephan legion i think was the second round pick of the columbus blue jackets played for team canada uh had some sort of injury before the gold medal game his arm was in a sling so he couldn't play but he was out there getting the gold medal and he retired at 19 um because he just didn't love the game anymore he didn't love it he ended up uh coming back he

went and like went on a fishing boat for a year didn't he wasn't that him i don't remember there was another player just like that who fell out of love with the game paul ranger was another guy that could have been a pretty strong defenseman played for the leafs for a bit i think played for the bolts for a bit was a high draft pick so i had heard that one of steve eiserman's first orders of business when he became gm of the lightning so paul ranger had already been away from the lightning for quite some time steve eisman came to the lightning and he uh offered paul ranger money like yeah like a couple million bucks and he said no yeah and it's not like he stopped playing like uh i would go to i'd be working at the zoo and i'd be talking to guys

and they'd be like yeah i was playing hockey last night and there was this guy who was unbelievable and it was paul ranger and he would just wreck durham rec league hockey like he'd just be he was the best rec league player because he was very clearly an nhl player still uh but it wasn't for him right he's still he's a guy who still seemed to love hockey but he didn't love the league um it's my understanding the leafs offered him an nhl deal and he said what about the ahl and they were like okay yeah sure yeah he wanted to get back into it that way i thought that was interesting yeah it happens there was those guys so my friend is friends with somebody who was a high draft choice. My friend

Philippe was friends with a guy who was a high draft choice in the NHL. Sidney Crosby? No. But this guy never panned out to be anything. Like Crosby. But he was supposed to be. That's true. Yeah, Crosby's garbage. Maureen Sider is going to be the next Crosby. Garbage. Both of them.

It's just fun at this point. I hope Red Wings fans know. Do you know how many of them are in my... Every time Maureen Sider breathes, I'm getting tweets now. it's great so so my friend philippe's friend uh was big you know big guy scored a bunch in junior and got drafted and quit another guy just quit and they were saying like he had a stature like he was big like eric lindros was big back in the day and could move um would have been a very good

nhl player but just didn't care anymore and apparently this guy didn't put on skates for like 10 years he just stopped i believe it i have another person that i used to know that you know uh made it to the peterborough peats and after the first day of camp 16 years old or 15 years old or whatever it was said i can't do this anymore and quit and has never played hockey since and he's in his 30s no it's crazy sometimes it's just okay i'm done now like i can't do this anymore and he said i i didn't have a childhood i played hockey seven nights a week well like even think of the ohl their their schedule is 68 games a lot of games i think but like think back to high school think back to how stressful high school was like as a teenager right like as an adult you

can handle high school no problem sure but you know with all the tools i have now as a 34 year old man i'd probably manage it i would crush math class but uh you know when i was 14 i didn't have the tools right 20 years ago so it was stressful now imagine you're spending hours and hours and hours a week on the bus and at practice and you're playing all these games and dudes are trying to take your head off and they're twice your size and they're scouts and there's millions of dollars at stake and your parents are relying on you and you've already been doing this for over half a decade yeah right you know all those road trips and everything i understand burnout on that level absolutely it it it makes me feel especially sad for peter holland because um he holds a special

place in my heart just because i got to talk to him when he was uh in junior and now he's got me blocked and i'm not 100 sure why we talked about that on the show before too i don't know that peter holland blocked you yeah we talked about this i don't know why um i hope i wasn't rude to him um i have a feeling it might have something to do with his departure from toronto and and babcock's quote about you know some guys thought they could hang here and they went somewhere else and they discovered they couldn't right um which was about peter holland yeah it doesn't help that he's fucking kicking guys on the way out that's super unnecessary how many coaches do that. Um, but, um, I, I still remember interviewing him center ice, um, with the

Guelph storm. We had the whole arena to ourselves. We hopped the glass to do it too. We couldn't get onto the ice. Um, and we both agreed to hop the glass. And as I'm watching him climb, I'm like, okay, first of all, this is going to be much harder for me to get over because he's an athlete and i'm not second of all if he lands funny and tears his knee this dude's a projected first rounder like yeah i'm never gonna work again that's scary and uh i remember he like he took it really seriously i had my notes with me for the interview and he was looking through them and seeing where he was in the draft rankings and everything and uh you know just a really well-spoken guy big frame good score he was part of the guelph storm had a ton of players

that year who were supposed to make it um and a lot of them didn't really have the same the the career that was expected of them it was him it was michael latta was another guy wow yeah trying to remember who else there was one other guy who was who was on that team who was highly touted um it's it's a shame but i'm glad like he's made that discovery about himself and it's this is a decision that is difficult to make peter holland could absolutely play hockey somewhere well he was playing in jurors garden in sweden juror garden juror garden and uh optimopolis right yes so that is uh joffrey loophole lasted nine games there and and he did two seasons and had 43 points and 36 points pretty good north americans lasting in the khl's

eastern conference is rare it's usually you're a mercenary you go in you get your money you get the hell out there's rare examples of guys sticking jesse blacker uh nigel dawes and not a ton of other people um it's in the same way that north america might be a culture shock for some russian players eastern russia russia is a culture shock for canadian and american players and a lot of them don't last i can see that it would be different it'd be very different yeah they have a super cool logo yeah but loophole lasted nine games yeah so so like you know i i just wanted to say i thought that was a really interesting thing and by the way most players go out like peter holland they don't get the puck drop they don't get the press conference they just

go and like he you know he might have made more than you or i throughout most of his career but like now he's he's 31 and that's what i mean right he's 31 okay now what 30 years of working life left maybe also by the way let me just throw this out there um peter holland's younger than us and he's retiring that's here that's happening steve it's happening more and more oh i know Wayne Simmons is our age. Oh, dude, junior guys are retiring. I saw Louis LeBlanc play in an alumni game. That dude's younger than us, too.

Yeah. Same draft class, I think. I was going to say, to your point where most guys go out with a whimper, that's why books like Ken Reed's One Night Only are so fascinating. Because that is the majority of stories. Guys who get five games in the NHL and then are gone. His specifically is for guys who get one game and then never reach it again. But that is the majority of these NHL players.

It's the rare case where you get the 10-year career. I'm a little upset that Ken Reid has given up on the audiobook thing. What do you mean? Because I would really like if he would translate some of those in audiobooks. I narrated my own audiobook, and Ken did that for one of his books, and that's why he hasn't done it for two of his books. I've heard it's really hard. I enjoyed the experience, but it was tiring.

I'd do it again, whereas Ken is like, nope, don't have time for that. he doesn't have somebody just to like the publisher is not just going to get somebody to do the other two i think you have to pay for that right don't you imagine you it might come out of here because i got paid to record my own um but uh yeah it's true i wonder if it comes out of the royalties or whatever cut yeah and i mean you don't write books to get rich not in canada not in canada no no no anyway uh shout out to peter holland on a great career and really enjoyed

that Twitter thread. Let's do the press conference. The Presser SDP. The Steve Dangle Press Conference. And one quick thing before we get into it, I do want to mention

and I didn't realize I'd done this, but I scooped I scooped Julian and Chris on their episodes next week. They will have one Sunday morning pre-deadline. They will have another one

Tuesday post-deadline. The SDP will also do tuesday wednesday friday next week steve is obviously unavailable to us because he's got sports net um you got work you got some serious work to do and to be honest with you nobody wants a pre-deadline show the day of right you want it on the sunday you do not want it on the monday because what's the effing point well and cj is going to be up for like 48 hours so yeah i'm surprised he even wanted to do tuesday but it should be spectacular um shows passion for it doesn't it well and you could see you could see like the the the show is just in its element right

now they are killing it so please check them out and there's a new noxian cats out right jesse there is but i wanted to get to a more important show on the network sorry noxian cats no i'm just joking uh noxian cats yesterday were joined by uh megan turner who is a member of team bauer the boston region of the pwhpa and one thing they hit on that was very fascinating was that there's people like to make there's a war between the phf and the pwhpa and they were like amongst the players there is no war like there might be uh a war amongst management and building these two leagues and there might be two women's league professional leagues but i believe that all the players they're friends they're like oh yeah we hang out with the girls all the time we go to

their games we're good so don't think the women are infighting here these two organizations here's what you need to do support women's sports yeah there you go that was the whole point support it the best way that you can possibly don't make it about them against each other exactly i was in an elevator with a bunch of the canadian women's team at the outdoor game were you yeah and no one had to push any buttons the elevator just went oh that's cool on its own because they were all wearing their gold medals they put them together and they just the they glowed and the whole thing just rose all the way to the seventh floor very convenient so go check out noxian kax there's a new episode tomorrow as well that'll drop around uh i think one or noon tomorrow but today there's

an episode of agent provocateur with frank servali and alan walsh and our dear friend alan agent provocateur is that how you pronounce it provocateur provocateur cj said it really messed up on the last i was listening to it on the way here and i was like we're just gonna gloss over that. I want to play a little clip from Agent Provocateur. It's out right now. You can go listen to it. And here's a little preview of the kind of conversations you'll get. And then Adam will go into it. I've always had a beef with the NHL putting games on deadline day. And I think that it is not too much of an effort to just make sure on that one day of the year when all of this is going on, that players not have to play games that evening. They're so distracted during the

day. Nobody's taking a nap. You've got teams in the air. You've got teams on the ice at practice. Every Canadian team, every 15 minutes, a report from the practice rink of wherever they are. And I just think there shouldn't be games that night. Of all the beefs that you have with the NHL, this might be the most reasonable. That's Frank's hand, Wally. Can you tell us about the episode? Yeah. So the whole thing was I've wanted to do this pretty much since the beginning uh when i first talked to alan last summer my thing was like wait till trade deadline we can do

trade deadline from an agent's perspective we get the player perspective we get the coach perspective sorry coach and gm perspective sometimes we even get the family perspective hey how's your wife and kids sometimes they ask that when someone gets traded well we never get the agent and no one ever asked the insiders or the agents how are you how are you doing and but what's interesting is alan and frank both said it's pretty much the worst week of the year like The most anxiety around this. Like, obviously, they understand it. It's exciting for everybody else, but for them, not an exciting time.

And you can see throughout, Frank is checking his phone, looking at his phone. Alan's checking, looking. You know, Alan tries his best to put his phone down. But at the end of the podcast, we ask him how many calls he's missed, and it's 24. Whoa. In an hour. 24. That means he could have gone on a call for two minutes.

each of those calls for two minutes and that's how we would have got to the 24 one person could be one you could have been one person i bet it's huberto saying mvp right mvp yeah um it's just 24 voicemails that just say mvp there's another moment in the in the podcast where frank goes into a story about the dominic ducharme firing and right because he got into it with someone about that he broke the story and he broke it a little too early because he broke it around like i don't know three o'clock in the afternoon and then it was a big deal and afterwards somebody hit him up and they said there's a reason the ducharme firing wasn't announced it was because his kids weren't home from school yet and they didn't want his kids to walk in the front door

knowing their dad got fired and he said this is the doubt and he's like i didn't know that when i hit send on the tweet yeah no one told him this is the delicate balance that insiders have with these real life people who have lives and and families and everything and he's like that's an incident where i just didn't know and i hit send and his kids found out and they knew before they got home before their dad could tell them it was like when i don't know if you remember this but john liu at tsn in in montreal who is a spectacular reporter above board on everything ever since i was a kid i think he i think he accidentally broke that carrie price and carrie price's wife that they were having a baby or something.

Oh, I do seem to remember something like that. And he, you could not, like, you could, he tweeted an apology, he had one on the air, like, could not be more apologetic, but that's what, you know, you're dealing with. Very sensitive things like that, right? And it wasn't like, Cary Price is pregnant, or Cary Price's wife is pregnant.

It was more like, hey, and, you know, they're having a baby, and blah, blah, blah. It's something that came out in conversation. And it's just shit. But they hadn't told the world yet. Yeah. Yeah, so anyway, long story short, fascinating episode great to get those and and uh and and the trade deadline is honestly you know

what we all live for here trade deadline free agency draft it's all fun so uh let's enjoy it while they hate it good good for frank for being open to like telling that story because that's embarrassing right yeah there's a lesson there yeah 100 uh do you have any questions jesse yeah yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna clip that one that's gonna be up on our twitter if you want to watch that little clip from the episode and then go watch the full episode so this question comes from Philbex, because the Calder Trophy has been such a conversation on our show. Philbex asks,

What do you guys think about an end-of-season award for the best player, 35 plus? I love that idea. You award longevity and talent. Yeah, I love that idea. That's kind of cool, right? What do you call it? Joe Thornton Award? No, the Yarmir

Yager Award. Yeah. Gordie Howe? Gordie Howe even, yeah. Gordie Howe would be the guy. It'd have to be Yarmir or Gordie. and Gordy played into his 50s in the NHL. Gordy Howell. Do they have? They don't even have a Gordy Howell.

Is there anything after Howell? See, I've always thought they should have, and people are going to laugh at me because I don't rate assists as high as I rate goals, but that doesn't mean that they're not important. I just think goals are more important. They should have, the Wayne Gretzky Award should be most assists

because Gretzky would get like 100 a year. That should be absolutely an award. Oh, you mean the Jonathan Huberto Award? Well, there you go. It would have his name stapled on it for sure. What's your problem? I love the veteran award. I love whatever that is.

That's a good idea, right? What's like a good, like who's the most, like Joe Thornton has got to be the most embodied, embodiment lately of a guy who's a grizzled veteran who's old, but Gordie Howe has got to be the old and good award. I like the idea of Yager. Joe Thornton can win it if he wants, but yeah, no, it's got to be. yeah i yager chelios or how even bauer well and i i do i i like the idea too of it not being a north american no offense to gordy how but like there's a lot of awards that are just named after

north americans everything's north america i get that so you know be nice that includes someone else the the yarmir yager award of longevity yeah i think it just needs to be the awards title. They don't do the Rocket Richard of scoring goals. The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. We'll call it the We Can't Buy Out Your Contract Award. Oh, there you go. Because at

35 plus, remember, it's a full plan. Can't buy it out. That was a good one. Yeah, I thought it was a great idea. I thought I'd bring it up. Last thing. It's going to be boring when Ovechkin wins it for the first five years. Two things, actually. Wesbo says Arizona's 8-3

since they got Richie. yo Richie's been on fire so funny it's yeah honestly good for Nick Richie you're not cheering against him no we wanted him to work like we wanted him to

succeed here now he's playing in the NHL scoring and still making 2.5 million dollars good for him he's winning and the last thing Miranda wants to know what the hell is up with the Leafs and so many bench minors

man they've been guilty of that for a while since babcock um i don't i don't get it i don't get it i wish i had an explanation minor leaders they're a lazy line changing team like they have been for years like i'm always it's the one thing nhl players do that always mystifies me like whenever i see a guy casually gliding on one blade towards the bench i'm like you know you're in an nhl game they do that every shift yeah willie does it really badly like but like even like a like a a guy like um mckay of i saw the other day i'm like what the the left foot glide with the stick up you know yeah bench get on the fuck you're not in the play anymore get out of here the longer you're on the ice the more uh the guy who just hopped over the boards for you is risking putting

the team down and can't play literally cannot play and it comes down to just hustle bozak used to be really bad like yeah they used to tell you in when we played hockey you skate as hard to the bench as you did on the ice for the puck because you got to get off you got to get out of there i don't know man i i it's so frustrating watching the leaf sometimes with that now last night it was labushkin and riley jumping over i think that's just i think on that one it's just they weren't focused and they weren't paying attention when labushkin tried to jump back on the bench the swan dive into it you know what a for effort but like guys you're nhlers you're gonna make a mistake i would rather them take a too many minute penalty or too many men penalty do for

that then just i'll just casually leave the ice and the puck hits the guy extra guy and then the penalty grab some popcorn is someone where to put my credit card i gotta order some get off the ice jesus you're trying to win a game get out of here i wonder if other teams fans of other teams have this issue or if this is a leaf thing maybe because i don't i don't evaluate that versus the rest of the league if we actually take more bench minors i'd love to know well i'm not paying attention to like oh man dallas stars really have a problem changing right right now there was it sure never comes along at the right time but i guess it wouldn't for any team right i do remember the owen sound attack um the year they won the ohl championship in 2011 they someone pointed out

they're like watch they all change at the same time and it was all i could focus on when watching them all five guys hop over the boards at the exact same time like it was just it was like how do you have a signature line change style that's so strange and they won and they won yeah i'm the worst way were you able to find it we're delaying long enough i cannot find i can find coaches for this year um it wouldn't be hard coaches with too many men on the ice statistics like the most that i can see is bob boogner is he coach yeah craig berube's got five bob mooder he's not got five i'm looking for john john cooper's got four where's sheldon keith sheldon keith sheldon keith um i don't see the thing is like i don't even i don't know where

he is unless there's oh there's a next page don't worry about it sheldon keith has 10 this year oh my god the most in the league most benchmark 10 10 too many men 10 too many men he was pissed yeah he was sheldon keith has 10 this year that is the most in the league so yeah there you go there's something it's not in our brain and let me okay so let me just check the previous year because season uh oh wait start season stop season so sheldon keith let's do you want to look at the last three years sure okay regular season the most too many men too many men too many men hang on too much man oh my god stop promoting sarah sivian's podcast yeah it's a very good podcast um sheldon keith 21 john cooper has 24 craig berube with 25

uh dj smith with 24 by the way there are calls for his job in ottawa right now if it's the last three years, Sheldon Keefe's only been a head coach for two. Okay, so Sheldon Keefe is among the top, and he's only been the coach for most, like he took halfway through. Yeah, so it's not good. It's not good. It's just, the NHL is hard

enough to win in as it is. He's got 15 in his last two seasons. 123 games. So that's 100 penalty minutes worth. It's 10% of games. Yeah, you could have gotten into 20 fights instead.

and had probably not been on short-handed if you got into 20 fights right i mean you need to got a fight so i know how many leave players over that amount of time have drawn 20 penalties it's probably a pretty short list i was wondering something the other day and i want to leave you with this if that's okay unless we've got another question we want to get to all good here's my question for the press conference if the nhl really wants to get rid of fighting why don't they go down to four on four once there is a fight i think that's funny i think because that would favor the team like a leafs team that would be like high flying would it not well see that would would that not encourage the leafs to fight if you're losing you get into a fight to open up

the ice so you can score oh yeah no then all of a sudden it becomes part of strategy i just feel like that okay maybe not maybe not yeah all right all right i like the idea and i equally like shooting it down okay just a thought um to end the show you want to breathe into the uh mic for two minutes straight sorry no all of us all three of us you know what we need the mic stands it'd be nice to have like sometimes the ones that hang or get ones that are a little bit higher i always crouch down at this microphone you're like this you got your nose right in the i do i'm sorry about that how's that one subwoofer guy wow that was a that was a big one the steve dangle podcast follow the guys on twitter at steve underscore dangle

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