The Steve Dangle Podcast - Lots of Trotz | June 7, 2021

Episode Date: June 8, 2021

On this episode of The Steve Dangle Podcast, people won't stop talking about the Leafs (00:00), the Montreal Canadiens are rolling into the third round (10:30), the Islanders vs Bruins series and Barry Trotz' legacy (21:30), Adam asks an interesting question about Lou Lamoriello and Brendan Shanahan (30:00), Carolina is one loss away from elimination (41:00), Colorado doesn't show up for two games versus Vegas (51:00), the North divisions travel exception (57:30), everyone and no one wants to hire Gerard Gallant head coaching (59:00), Egerton Ryerson's statue was torn down in Toronto (1:05:00), and will the Leafs Amazon Series be entertaining? (1:24:00). Originally aired: June 7, 2021 Watch the full episode here: https://youtu.be/YiRdOuQm14o Visit https://sdpn.ca for merch and more. We've joined The Athletic and you can too! Hit the link to subscribe: https://theathletic.com/sdp Visit this episode's sponsors: https://magicspoon.com/sdp https://www.creditkarma.ca/ https://www.getroman.com/sdp https://ca.manscaped.com/ https://betmgm.com/dangle Follow us on Twitter:@Steve_Dangle, @AdamWylde, & @JesseBlake Follow us on Instagram:@SteveDangle, @AdamWylde, & @Jesse.Blake Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

the steve dangle podcast with your host steve dangle adam wild and jesse blake they blow it oh they freaking blew it we feeling good now no no this is exactly the kind of win that it's going to get worse. What? The Habs beating the Leafs. The Leafs choking the Habs. Yes, it is. It's getting worse.

They're a game away from sweeping the Jets. Yeah, if that's where we're starting, why aren't we giving credit for the Habs being a great team right now? What is with this motivational speaker nonsense? You can't tell me you don't look at where the Habs are right now and go, that could have been the Leafs. No, I'm just playing with them. Not at all.

Running Gustafson out there with two minutes to go. He's just like, I know you can't do anything, so I'm going to put the guy who's the defensive liability out there. They were this great the whole time. Did you know in the last six, so the Habs have won six in a row right now. They have not trailed in any of those six games. That's a good, that's a damn good team.

Why were they down 3-1? They picked it up after that loss, after starting 3-1. they turned it on because teams go through waves and right now they're a hot team that's really good that's firing on all cylinders and their type of hockey that they're playing right now is working extremely well in the playoffs versus these two teams versus the least versus the jets the jets who are short shifley obviously and who are just looking like the jets who lost nine of ten to end the season and the leaves who didn't have anything going either and the habs have just done what they can do and capitalize

on that. Didn't have anything going. Because they're a good team. I think two things can be true. The Habs can be good and the Leafs good. Two things can be definitely true. The Habs can be a good team and the Jets and Leafs struggle at the beginning of this series

and at the end of the Leafs series. Also, I want to throw out there. Two things are true. Those are rubbery goalposts. Edmonton, you have not gotten away with anything here either. Oh! You also unfortunately, with us leaf fans we're in this together i got news bad montreal montreal gets killed in the third round oh just it validates everything said about the north division and completely resets how i view

this season completely well when montreal gets through and they'll get through um i want them in the finals just so the north division thing can go away so if they really are a hot good team if you'd swipe ripe on the Montreal Canadians because they're sexy and they're hot and it's the summer um then I I would say that you should be hoping that the Montreal Canadians are going through the finals because it it will every dumb thing that anybody's ever said about the north division will be true if Montreal doesn't get through we know that I can't wait I can't wait for all of Leafs Twitter to have to dunk on Kevin Paul Dumont again. He says how bad the Leafs are, he thinks,

and how they're going to trade Tavares for Bobrovsky or something. Like, it's just... Everyone shut up. We got it. Everyone shut up. By the way, Leaf fans, we are all in this together, but we all in this together need to stop doing that. The reason they're tweeting about your team

is because they know it'll boost them up. They'll get 20 more followers, 30 more followers. if i send this tweet i get 60 000 followers somebody who's never heard my name before is gonna shit post me back and they might even follow me and and that's just because a lot of people will follow you just because they hate your guts and it's it's the uh it's the dallas cowboys of any of the american talking head shows it's okay i'm gonna talk about this team because i know if i talk about this team i'm gonna maximize the audience that i'm gonna reach because nobody cares enough about that team as much as those fans like there aren't as many fans as uh as the

other teams than as of leaf fans so you're gonna get the most reaction you just talk about the leafs it's like if you're if you're in baseball and you and the and the yankees lose or they don't make the playoffs um uh which happened a couple years ago uh you can gain a lot of followers by just just targeting yankee fans now i do want to read something that brooksie that's what i'm saying brooksie wrote about the leafs and i did want to get your opinion um we will get to other teams yeah yeah yeah but this is fun okay so okay so basically there is a culture of postseason failure in toronto where there has been an annual and total eclipse of the heart this is a team that has blinked in the face of adversity every single time and has become frozen in fear when the stakes

are highest correct so far yeah is there anything there so far the inability to change that culture has been the biggest and most surprising failure of brendan shanahan's presidential administration for the leafs are only slightly more exaggerated version of the red wings of the early 1990s who regularly conquered the regular season which is true only to wilt away uh in the postseason that changed when detroit acquired shanahan in 96 97 it was he not eiserman not federoff not the russian five and not even scotty bowman whose presence transformed the red wings into champions the interesting take and just wrong um yeah it's just wrong so okay the red wings of the early 1990s all right so so let's go through it 91 lost in the division semifinals

to the blues first round by the way jesse do you know that isn't it lovely that steve doesn't even look this up he knows the entire playoff tree from 1991 oh no you looked it up i know i looked it up oh you did okay all right sorry sorry sorry i thought he was rhyming off the top of his head i was like what the fuck so and i don't like over here i feel like it's manipulative because he's trying to appeal to leaf fans sure is i think i feel like this whole argument is based off of uh so 92 they made it to the second round didn't do very well 93 red wings team great in the regular season but they lose in the first round to who the plucky toronto maple leafs plucky toronto maple leafs who beat them in seven games in 93 they lose in the first round in 94 you know what

to tell you what he's right so far but the idea that brendan shanahan was like the first sign of life for this team they i don't think he was suggesting that i think he said they were and then they didn't make it much into the postseason the only time steve in the 90s they made it past i believe was the conference finals against colorado with the infamous claude lemieux hit where they went 95 they went to the cup final cup final against jersey against new jersey they did get swept but they got swept in the stanley cup final and they were in the west i forgot they were west division at that point uh them and the leafs right uh then the next year they went to the conference final followed by back-to-back cups after shanahan arrived yes yes for sure

but just the red wings like when did they just become this massive misremembered team well i think it's easy to pick and choose from a team 30 years ago i guess like oh like i love the the new romanticized story of steve eisman one day just deciding you know fellas i i know how we're gonna win now and it's that scoring goals isn't important it's me on defense and the whole room was silent and everyone looked at Sergei Fedorov to see his opinion and he went Lidstrom joins in yeah and everyone just Chris Draper's just all on their knees cheering and from that day forth they never scored a goal again and they went on to win back-to-back

Stanley Cups the end what the what what are you talking about what are you talking about I don't understand it also those were the unrestrained cap years too let us not forget who spent a bajillion freaking million dollars they were one of a few teams who could do that like i just i don't get it i don't understand our new fascination i think right red wings and in a few years the narratives about the blackhawks are going to be nauseating yes for sure i think i think at the end of the day guys it's pretty tough to compare what the leafs have gone through to any other team pre-cap right and there hasn't been a lot of teams post-cap to compare them to because frankly they do fail in a spectacular fashion the one thing we can all agree on it's not that they lose it's how

they lose and it's always historic it's always memorable and it's always really bad and leaves you sad it makes for the podcast so yeah it doesn't yeah the podcast we've been thriving we'd be thriving if they made it to the second round we would be yeah we would be thriving if they made it to the third or the cup final if they won it we'd be thriving no matter what i saw someone like hey steve you got the payday though from the game seven video i lost an entire round worth of videos because of that one they could have made it to the second round lost in game seven of the second round i still would have had the big game seven video and an entire round plus they actually won a round game seven video we were gonna do streams for every round the

Leafs were in I was gonna get paid per round and now they're gone and by the way I just want to say to everybody that thinks this is easy I don't think there's a lot of people to do but you'd be surprised how shockingly low YouTube's ad revenue is like just oh in terms of the money you're like holy shit like we had a great month no you didn't said youtube uh logan paul yeah you what you do is you gain a big subscriber base then you do a bunch of really untoward shit in japan and fight floyd mayweather it's just how it goes it's just how it goes um so anyway we're building towards let's move on here because i i do think we should talk about the montreal winnipeg series montreal looking absolutely dominant like i said it's like two charms play with them berkshire tweeted about

it but gustafson out there in the last two minutes like it's no big deal um this is this montreal canadians team is rolling and i think steve you made a really good point in our uh in our group chat with jesse because you guys were talking about it last night and i think i think it bears repeating it's it's not just that montreal is beating up on on winnipeg it's how shockingly not effective winnipeg looks without mark scheifele oh oh they're they're just they're just not even close and like listen my opinion on the jets is well documented i don't think they're anything special at all and the the stretch uh after the trade deadline uh validated that then they go and they sweep the edmonton oilers and i go oh okay so are they actually are they

actually this like kind of veteran group that turns it on before the playoffs or maybe the oilers aren't quite ready and the habs are are making them look like absolute dog shit yeah um it it would be a different series if dubois was doing anything anything yeah that trade has had no return i he he got injured shortly after the the deal and i gotta think it's it's affecting him still because that's not a bad hockey player um and now they don't have shifley and hey you want to talk about incentive to win a game the Jets uh go up 3-1 and then they get or well go up sorry they stay alive 3-1 and then the Jets get Shifley back I mean the Habs still have an enormous advantage but it's just a lot harder to pull that off with Shifley there it's

just it's they're just not a very remarkable hockey team they're really not I think sorry go ahead Jesse and like right now just with the center situation like Stastny was clearly like I know he played uh was it last night but he's clearly still hurt so you have Pierre-Luc Douas as your new number one center with Shifley out and he's a little hurt and not playing well and then you got Stastny who's hobbling on like one knee and then like you got who else he got down the down the mills like Adam Lowry and Nate Thompson it's like what are you relying on in the second round of the playoffs to get through and win a couple games and they also looked a tad we probably overrate the series versus Edmonton in hindsight because there was three games that

were in overtime and if a couple calls go the other way go to Edmonton's way same with the Leafs like if a couple calls go the other way for the other team if any of those penalties are called on McDavid if he gets one power play that leads to a goal then they win Edmonton wins one of those OT games and we're maybe we're sitting here and it's Edmonton Montreal in the second round the Montreal beating up on Edmonton instead yeah that's a good team that stat from CJ last episode So we, I was so fixated on McDavid drawing zero calls in four games against Winnipeg. Apparently it's been eight straight Stanley cup playoff games.

That's a travesty. That's a travesty. It's a, that's absurd. It's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. It's the sort of thing like it should cost someone their job. That that's I'm at LeBron. James goes eight straight games without drawing a foul. Like it's Connor McDavid.

like does sydney crosby have to put up with this like and i know he gets abused too well i here's what i was straight here's what's going to happen uh next postseason you're not going to be able to breathe in conor mcdavid's direction so i feel bad for any team that has to play them because you know this is never happening again all edmonton has to do next season and and this is not by the way to diss the oilers this is the way it should be um you know they're gonna you think that the nhl is annoying now with their even up calls wait till they do an even up series i can't wait it's gonna happen that's why tnt and espn tnt and espn are not gonna stand for this shit they are not gonna they're not gonna pump conor mcdavid's tires

from a city that most americans don't even know exists honestly honestly ask how many my american relatives and i love them could not point out edmonton on a map not a chance and and we're gonna pump this this this edmonton player up again we're gonna do this like we did with gretzky in the 80s gretzky won gretzky won stuff hockey was exciting in the 80s they are they're absolutely absolutely going to call the shit out of anything anyone does to conor mcdavid next season but specifically in the playoffs you watch you know like steven a smith has been trying and it's really it's just been low-hanging fruit is all the oilers lost and they shouldn't have lost but they did but i love it i don't know why why is it so great and then the leafs oh they lost

again people didn't think they would and they did anyway whoa can you believe it you know that it's gonna be it's a matter of time before you're featured on first take you know that bring me on the steves bring me on with steven a and steven b i'll be steven b um bangle steven bangle what about steven g works steven a steven g i can do that stevie d i can be whatever letter you need me to be steven i will be on there but a story that i feel like espn and the likes of steven a let's just say they're big guns would latch on to and it we did not make a big enough deal of it like as an industry uh what was it one of the top 17 cap hits in the nhl is playing playoff hockey right now and that's carrie price and it's carrie price yeah not a single skater

how far down the list do you have to go to get to a skater right that's unbelievable and like like You talk about, like, ah, the Leafs lost and they shouldn't have, and the Oilers lost and they shouldn't have is low-hanging fruit. How about none of the stars are worth paying attention to? How about that? Look at the league. Who are the stars remaining? Who are the stars?

I mean, Kucherov and Stamkos are stars. Hedman's a star. Mm-hmm. They are stars. He's just named three guys for the same team, so that's tough. Okay. You've got to spread it out. Nathan McKinnon?

Star. It's a star. petrangelo i don't know if he's a star he's an important defenseman is he a star vegas does not have one vegas has mark stone who's extraordinarily underrated but he is not a marketable star no you don't see him on boards so what because like locally you could say jonathan marshall so is a star like i'm sure there's billboards of him in vegas you know but it's got to be national so we're talking about national appeal stars in flower huge in in hockey yeah or in a sports marsha and then you have two well in sports we have two so let's just go with hockey okay okay

in hockey marsha and bergeron come on they're big everybody knows brad marshawn come on yeah come on if you're saying in hockey then i think you have a lot of stars like within hockey circles or to the average fan to the average to the average fan i think you you could run down a good list so barzal is becoming that bergeron um bergeron and uh uh astronaut and marshan i think are i would even put pasta there pasta for sure on his way up for sure they need to do a better job marketing him but welcome tnt and espn um uh with colorado Oh, yeah, for sure. It's Nate McKinnon.

I do want to do one last thing, though, on the Jets, Adam. Oh, please. Because Brad, who I play NHL 21 with, he's on Team Dangle Navy. He keeps wanting me to bring something up. Okay, let's hear it. And it's that you – I'm putting you on blast, Adam Wild. You did not like the Dylan DeMello signing when it happened. And now he's out of the lineup, and we see just how bad the Jets miss him.

right well if your team hinges on dylan de mello then you're unremarkable hey you do not talk shit about mississauga steelheads alumni dylan de mello well i'm sure that all five people who saw him play for the steelheads are because they're always so cool hey we had upwards of 150 in a snowstorm okay for a free game steve it was free oh yeah i remember when it was a snowstorm and they said whoever shows up can just go watch the team can just come watch risk that was a really bad snowstorm though risk your life see free hockey like why not right like why not make it outside they're telling you to stay home why not go see a hockey game meanwhile i drove from scarborough to be the in arena announcer to no one i i have a 30 bucks i think i think steve you

make a really good point you know you've got it i know i know that i know that the nhl has this thing with the playoffs about what becomes more of a team game it's a tougher atmosphere and when you watch and we'll get into this you watch the bruins and the islanders what a great series that's a spectacular series and that's how honestly that's hockey i i i can identify with and understand and uh i'm gonna tell you why i turned off that game okay so we'll get to that But my thing is, is it to watch Logan Paul? My thing is with this, you know, you, you do have to, you do have to, you, you can't, I don't think you can go on calling the games these way,

this way. I don't think you can. I think you need to have stars in the playoffs. Remember it was the big famous story about the, the Lakers. They submitted a highlight reel of Kobe Bryant getting like slapped and not getting calls. And then for the next season and a half, he got every call. and you know i think i think edmonton needs to do that like i think we need stars in the damn twitter account they need to upload it on their team twitter account don't put any don't put uh like captions don't put like what i would love to see i would love to see if the nhl find

them find them we didn't say anything we simply compiled footage from broadcast what's the matter ah they're too friendly finest for what the nba is more fun the nba is more contentious the nhl is like ah we're rich we're you're rich i'm rich we're all losing a little money here who cares no no team run by ken holland is going to do that he's way too deep in the muck yeah but a forward-thinking team would absolutely do that and every oilers fan would back it and let us not excuse uh you know the oilers for for instance the there's some mismanagement there and they should be deeper for other reasons oh they're not good but like for god's sake eight straight games that's ridiculous now i do want to now jesse has piqued my interest

with this um boston and the islanders my favorite series right now i'm i'm shocked first off shocked to see taylor hall fight somebody for the first time since 2011 that was just wild like and it didn't even look like it didn't even look like grounds for a fight but you know it's that boston thing it seems to like rub off on players these guys are like yeah you know i'm a pretty finesse player they go to boston like i'm gonna i'm literally gonna deliver a knuckle sandwich and it's called an identity ah and i imagine having one so jesse curious to hear your thoughts you turned it off why saturday what is it saturday uh boston new york they're playing possibly misses that wide open empty net oh oh my god that was the game dang it's preview dang it's preview

if you get if you get that one you're probably up to one at the end of uh i think it would have been like the second you would have been up to one or whatever anyways three one in the series new york the islanders they take a 3-1 lead in the third period from 6 6 18 in the third period until the clock hit triple quadruple zeros on the scoreboard boston didn't register a shot on goal because the hockey game that the New York Islanders play is the worst damn hockey in the world. And the next time the Islanders take a lead in this series, in a game, I'm turning the channel to something else.

There's a lot of NBA playoffs on right now. I love Sunday watching the Mavs and Clippers play. It was a great game. I'd rather watch that than this stupid hockey where the other team can't get a shot on goal because your defense is just circling and holding the puck and there's nothing being done on the attack by the team that's trailing. There's not even score effects.

Score effects when you're playing just a regular system that's not limiting the entire offensive strategy of the game would have Boston get even more shots on goal. But they created this whole thing where they can't even shoot the puck. And that's how the New York Islanders won the 2021 Stanley Cup. Any billionaire who wants to grow hockey should go to Barry trots and just go, how much money for you to never coach again?

Like how much dude he's good. He's amazing. He's extremely good. And for everyone who wonders like for the, for the youngins out there who are too young to remember the dead puck era or to live through or remember the dead puck era. I want you to imagine every team in the league plays like this. their goalies are better and bigger and there are essentially no rules slashing hooking it's all

holding and the jerseys are twice as baggy everyone's it's it's like a poncho it's like a poncho with a nike logo on it every team plays like that no wonder people stopped watching no wonder they were like let's add a glowing puck to this it also didn't help that it was on like the outdoor life channel or something like that yeah you have like you oh you need cable no you need super cable oh you don't it's not the first hundred channels it's the next 150 so good luck it's the one where we show fishing all the time yeah yeah going straight from bass fishing to hockey excellent they are the dang it makers though they make you make mistakes they have the skill to capitalize on it when they present themselves they got a great uh goalie uh

department there they when was the last time the islanders had a bad goalie it was a few years ago it was pre-lou lamorello pre-lou lamorello that's for sure lou is going to win brooks he also noted this in his column his six if they win it'll be their sixth series win since he left toronto wow just just just eat me with utensils throw me off throw me off the uh the throw me off the niagara falls like i'm just i'm just i'm so sick of this and also in ontario did you know you can't buy silverware but you can buy plastic spoons knives and forks here's a fact for you it's fun unrelated it's just everything sucks right here right now is what we're saying just everything sucks um sorry go ahead you were

a big inspiration for the morning show today because jacks came in yeah tell me about that jacks came in and said um she was trying to purchase jesse what was she trying to buy she was uh coat hangers yeah so she's trying to buy coat hangers at walmart and they brought him to the cash and a manager came over and she said you can't buy these and jacks being jacks was like what like she was like scared like what why and she's like it's not it's a non-essential item you cannot buy these and then i i read your tweet out from the day before where you can buy a pool for your son but you can't buy baby clothes in store can't buy baby clothes you can buy an inflatable pool though but yeah and so and then we had people texting in so

we had a guy texting and goes um i i could buy a mop but i can't buy a bucket uh there were some other really really good ones somebody said i bought an atv at a dealership but was not allowed to buy the helmet because that's a non-essential item and up until like two weeks ago like they're they're like but open the schools yeah yeah yeah yeah it's crazy anyway so everything in ontario sucks if you if you want to know why why this is just doubly depressing from for anybody listening or watching from outside ontario yeah oh it's crazy it's a shame that the leaves are out but at least now i can get back to nothing nothing in the world if you don't golf you're fucked you can't do shit you can go to shoppers drug mart and go home and fuck yourself that's all

you can do it put that on the license plate doug that's all you can do at dollarama you can't buy a birthday card or a condolence card but you could buy a father's day card yeah because seasonal items are essential so yes so what's funny we have another person go i tried to buy an ice cube tray they wouldn't let me but they said go to the seasonal section we have one there and you can buy that one it's good to be alive gentlemen Barry Trotz runs these stores Can't go this way Can't go that way

About Barry Trotz And let me ask you this Okay so you're the owner Of Washington And I forget What's his name again I forget He owns the Wizards

He owns the Capitals He was partying With the fans and all that I forget Yeah he's great President General Manager Comes to you and says We don't need this head coach anymore

Ted Lee owns this Oh Ted Okay so you're talking to Ted Owner of the Washington Wizards Yeah And Capitals Wizards and Capitals No this is a different guy

it's definitely else's owns the capitals yeah yeah he doesn't own the islanders no he owns the wizards islander which wait are you we're talking about washington and i'm talking about barry trotz let me make a point here i understand let me get there there's a slight connection sorry sorry so so let me ask you this so you're you're the i don't even know who the president of of washington is but i the general manager i believe has been there since Barry Trotz was like, oh, won the cup with the team, the whole thing. So they knew going into that season

that was probably going to be Barry Trotz's last. There were Caps fans that season who were like, yeah, it's probably time for him to go. Brian McClellan. Brian McClellan. So they go in and they win the cup, okay? So Ted, if you're Ted, do you not say to Brian McClellan,

listen, we should probably try to keep this together because as much as you guys maybe don't see eye to eye, something worked, something worked. And we've got a really good thing here. Okay. No. And he somehow convinces you, no, we don't need to pay $4 million for a coach and keep when you, when Brian McClellan comes to you now, having seen your performance since then, which has been, I mean, you're starting goaltender who looked like an absolute stud, never the same again, the team's not looked really good. They've, they've, they've had their moments. The caps have definitely had their moments. They have still

have insane firepower still have insane talent signings of dano char was just cool and you know there's stuff that they do you're like man this team has it but they haven't really had it since barry trotz left even though they're making the playoffs do you not say might be time for a change because that's bad talent talent evaluation oh everyone who is like we don't need trotz like everyone who is on the wrong side of history there's got to go so same argument toronto Maple Leafs Lula Amarillo you're the board at MLSC you represent Bell or Rogers or Larry Tannenbaum those are the three owners and Brendan Shanahan and Kyle Dubas come to you and go we or no not Kyle you just Brendan you know it was time for Kyle Dubas to take over was it now

because I haven't seen the performance so Kyle kind of forced the hand of Brendan when Colorado came to Dubas and was like, hey, we want to make you our general manager. And then Shani says, no, don't go to Colorado. You're going to be GM here shortly. And then it happened. Sure. So who are we placing? I assume it'd be Shanahan, whose head would have to roll for choosing Dubas over Liu.

Well, what I'm suggesting, I'm not even suggesting it was the wrong choice. I think given where the Leafs wanted to go with their direction, Dubas was the right choice. however if you're a board member of mlse you're a passive fan um and you are insanely rich like all the board members are and your friends who are also rich in like new york and la and all that stuff are making fun of you because your team stinks or keeps losing like this they don't stink they just lose fantastically 10 out of 10 loses um do you do you not look at brendan shanahan and go how can you tell me how can you tell me next season's going to be different you want we will

We let Lou Lamorello go. We kicked him upstairs. We knew he wasn't going to stick around. Signs with the Islanders. He has six series wins, maybe. At least he has five. How do you justify this? And how do you convince me?

Forget the fans. Convince me that we're on the right track. With the team, by the way, that even people who covered the Islanders were like, oh, they're about to finish last. Yes. Yes. And they signed Leo Komarov to an outrageous deal.

And they brought on Matt Martin for nothing. although Mets, he's effective again because he's with Sezikis and Clutterbuck, right? And they didn't sign the guy that Toronto signed as their big free agent. Tavares, who they wanted desperately. Here's, okay, so I'm not going to about face on Kyle Dubas. I'm not either, just so we're clear.

No, no, after saying that I wouldn't have done anything differently from the trade deadline. I mean, Hall instead of Foligno is the easy one. all maintain that things go differently if felina was healthy and it's unfair to criticize felino's performance because we'll just never know no one ever asked for that situation right they should have got hall well they should have done a lot of things they should have won game five yeah but you know what i mean um that being said adam makes a hell of a point and a big argument for dubas's performance the first couple years well he's got to clean up lou's mess and

he's got to get out from under marlo and he's got to get out from under zaitsev and he did those things and he had a full season without either of those things now what is the biggest problem facing the toronto mapleys i don't know adam jesse take a stab i know what it is they're very was that winning certainly that would be the result of the problem though right yeah what is the problem they can't win again the result not necessarily the part of the it's the after can't win is after the equal sign what plus what equals can't win you run the toronto maple leafs what is the biggest obstacle in your way uh cap probably you have the crest you have the name toronto maple leafs yeah but

they changed that too they changed the crest they did they did um you have four guys four guys making 40 million dollars combined lou did not do that shit lou did not do that shit there might have been one to do with that there might have been one and it would have been tavaris had he state in toronto like if lou had signed tavaris it could have been two it could have been matthews and tavaris and you understand both of them no questions asked you go one is a truly special superstar in this league who has money in the bank 40 goals every year and the other is a guy who's been a captain in the nhl and is probably money in the bank 30 goals every year and 50 yeah you i mean you're it's it's a game about goals goals for and against and you lock up two

players who you can confidently depend on for 70 in a light year every year everyone understands that everyone but then the other two willie okay he's got good value whatever fine now he does i don't know i think it's i think it's a lot of people going to bat for him because they feel obligated to is it good value or is it just what a seven million dollar player or is it just value right i think it's just value i think the value in willie's contract is that it's mostly paid already yeah and then marner like you don't even need to argue that he's bad it's just the cap is 81 and a half million dollars and half of it is dedicated to four people and none of that was by the way makes seven million dollars sorry just the islanders highest paid player is is

matthew barzal who makes seven million dollars seven million dollars he's a what what does he play what position center eyes a center interesting now uh this is not to say that i don't i tweeted at the time i was like god i was so relieved that the mitch marner thing was over who cares it's just 2 million bucks. No big deal. I think it strikes deeper than that. And I think that going for every last penny can hurt you. Like Mitch Marner could have made that money up in endorsements. God knows he endorses literally if it, if it, if it sells on a shelf, Mitch Marner is endorsing it right now in Toronto. Trust me. I saw a CIBC commercial. There's a real estate one when coming home, Mountain Dew, Red Bull, all this other shit. He's making enough money. But if you come back

and you sell Toronto Torontonians on I took a hometown discount because I am from here and I love it here you're a hero forever they've already got the statue made but what has happened is again we look at the cap hit and we go we're really hamstrung here now I have to say you know I would have laughed at you last year when you when people said well there's not a certain there's not a single player in the playoffs making over 10 million bucks past a certain round now there's one carry price there's one now i understand that some of that's luck well that's the playoffs luck is part of it um not a single single player over 10 million we got three i mean i i like we want to talk numbers that's a number is it not

is that not are we like that's not really a fancy number but it's a number it's a it's an enormous problem and again it's somewhat unfair just because no one asked for the cap to stay flat but it is now and this is what i keep coming back to it's a it's a cold factual conversation this cannot maintain this cannot maintain the highest paid player in the playoffs right now by the way is nikita kucherov at 9.5 million player like skater skater skater yes so this is i think i think this comes down to and again this was supposed to be a conversation about the islanders and how smart they were to grab lou and barry trotz um and and lou was by far like i don't i don't know what would have happened if lou'd stayed in toronto i certainly

wasn't um i wasn't like convinced i mean the zeitz have deal was just an abomination i'm sure lou would have been able to get out from under it got out from under Dion Phaneuf as well how good did they think he was going to be like yeah but but you cannot argue with this the Islanders for the Capitals and Leafs have been more successful than either franchise since those two people left they left in the same year yep and they have way less talent way way way less talent nobody's gonna argue me on that not an insult it it's not it's not and you know i have to man i have to give islanders fans credit i watch the games to see islanders fans they are so all the way ballistic for this boring ass team and it evens out the fact that the game kind of sucks when they're winning

the the islander fan base is awesome they're awesome they're great i think there's so much now you get on their bad side like we did a couple years ago and it kind of sucks i'm not gonna lie I did that six month period was not fun after Tavara signed here. No, but man, that's everything that you want hockey to be is what the Islanders fans are. And it's so spectacular that that's happening in New York. That's so spectacular that, you know, there are a good team going into an ESPN and a TNT deal. You need New York teams to be good. The Rangers should be better next year.

Hopefully we'll see what happens there. I mean it's it's a it's to me if I am a board member of the of MLSC as much as I like Kyle Dubas as much as I love Brendan Shanahan worship at the altar of Brendan Shanahan and personally I do I think he's spectacular I have to ask that question and I don't know if there's a good answer for that you know I'm telling you it's it's a much it's a much bigger story than the the ink that's been spilled over it. Not enough ink has been spilled over the fact that

most of this league's highest paid stars are not in the playoffs right now. There's eight teams left. That's a lot of teams. One guy. Carey Price. It's an ink good.

And the other guy sat on LTIR all season. Oh, he didn't even play! He didn't even play! Oh my God. Two in five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters.

On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. and what better way than with a delicious pret organic coffee starting at just one dollar all

day every day now until december 31st you gotta try breakfast at a and w at participating a and locations in ontario we are a game away from losing the carolina hurricanes tampa bay is a i mean they're the defending stanley cup champions they are loaded with superstars careful tampa that's what i thought yeah true um we know how good tampa is and we also know that there was some legal shenaniganery going on with the cap it's legal to do what what tampa did and until it's not don't get mad at them for it they want to win a cup again so don't get mad just be mad that your team didn't think of it first now Carolina for so many years has been this franchise on the rise we've really really seen sort of a blossoming lately if you are Kane's

fan management or you're Tom Dundon do you look at this year as a success if you're out in five against Tampa in the second round or is it about what the expectation could have been it's so hard because it's it's like what i was saying i think it was last episode or a couple before the st louis blues of all the 2010s kept running into the damn kings of the damn blackhawks there was a huge stretch where every year they lost in the first or second round and it was to a team that ended up going to either the final four or winning the entire thing sounds like the leafs uh boston yeah boston in uh two years they make the final 2019 and they went to the third round i think the year before no 2018 is they got stomped by tampa oh okay okay okay fair enough

fair they won the first game against tampa and i was like oh my god i can't believe the leafs these monsters to seven and then tampa killed them okay fair enough um it's uh yeah it's it's a lot like the uh the blues of a few years ago with the hurricanes because i've said you know at some point they got to get over the hump tampa's a hell of a hump like that's that's easier said than done but you've got to get over the best team to be the best team yeah right like you want to win you got to get past them they got kind of shafted because they went super all in at the at the 2020 deadline they got like three games with that team before the season shut down and uh this year the one thing i will say like the idea that dougie hamilton's

name is being brought up again like there should maybe be a little bit more urgency to buy the deadline and compete if you're potentially losing dougie hamilton i will say that i don't think carolina should overreact if they lose to tampa here but it is a little bit of uh all right all right guys is is this the maximum because making the playoffs and having moderate success can still be viewed as a failure see the toronto raptors at some point they went you know what like okay we've peaked at round two or sometimes three like we can't get past this one force of nature so we got to get one of our own and they did and they won so with what's interesting with with carolina i don't know what's fully been written about dougie hamilton

other than the fact that he is a ufa and they haven't started negotiations yet because it's the playoffs and they're not focused on that what's curious to me is people are talking about and this toronto fans do this all the time i you know people are like well dougie hamilton's available he's got to come to toronto fair okay you want dougie hamilton and we probably could pay him a lot and that's great. Okay, cool. Okay. And now people are like, well, and you can also double back and trade Morgan Riley to Carolina because they're going to need a right shot defenseman. And he's got a, you're left and he makes manageable money and is very good. I I'm curious to know if Carolina does lose Dougie Hamilton, who's the force of nature

that they can go get is it sebastian ajo just being bigger and better you know if they if you lose dougie hamilton you're you're working at a disadvantage i mean if they do trade for morgan riley and re-sign reimer it could be reimer handing the stanley cup to jake gardner and then to morgan riley that would be very funny fans can laugh and they'll be like hey we also Beach in the conference finals that one time. Remember that? That was fun. David Ayers gets to hoist it. David Ayers would for sure get to hoist it. I am curious for Carolina, what does get them over the hump? Is that an internal thing or do they have to add? Is there a major deal brewing there if they can't get over the hump? Because you know, as much as they don't like

paying for coaching staff until recently, Tom Dundon's competitive. This team has looked completely different since he bought it and they are a franchise for sure that should be really tough to play for a long long time where do they go you remember the washington capitals conversation we had a few episodes ago where i i looked at all their top scores and i'm like guys i'm having trouble finding one that doesn't start with a three uh for their age remember all the caps are in their 30s yep all of them and the ones who aren't they're talking about trading so that's a bad situation you don't want to be in that situation carolina hurricanes sebastian ajo top scorer 23 trocek second highest scorer 27 andrej svetchnikov third highest scorer

20 dougie hamilton 27 martin natchez super underrated player 21 jordan stall who i was under the impression was 38 is 31 really 31 he was that young had no idea how old is eric uh oh god he was drafted 2003 man but he's like he just feels prehistoric like i don't know it's crazy still there i know no i listen i'm not and he's effective too play great yeah nita rider 27 pesci 25 fogel 24 uh like the next who's the next player who's 30 you have to go all the way you got to go all the way down to jake gardner oh wow like almost all of their team is in their 20s and the shame for the hurricanes is aho and sveshnikov are two extraordinarily important pieces of the puzzle and you just can't make them older right the only way to make a player older is

to wait um you could argue well don't the leafs have the same excuse no i don't think so i think a bunch of those guys are older and they surrounded them with xyz blah blah blah but aho being 23 sveshnikov being 21 and nature's being or sorry 20 and nature's being 21 it's a factor they're gonna get better every single year you can bank on the hurricanes getting better every single year they they have a few more years um before we have a washington capitals conversation with them they do need to continue to surround their young talent with good experienced talent but they've found the young talent to surround it with the core is there yeah and hence you know they got a first rounder from the leafs for their troubles like it's it's just gonna keep

going for them uh by the way they go back and look at that vinnie trachek trade okay just go back and look at it uh you said he was their second leading scorer this year yes and and only in uh 47 games you have 43 points but they paid for for vinnie trachek am i gonna be upset yeah i think i'm gonna be upset nhltradetracker.com you're joking i could not believe the trade when it happened and nobody talked about it and here we are read it so the hurricanes get vinnie trocek on february 24th 2020 and a few weeks later nothing happened no um the panthers get eric holla who this year at 21 points in 51 games for the predators that's effective for the gold knights yeah yeah i mean like it's

that's fine whatever um then lucas walmart who played in 20 games this year had three points wait is that even this year or was that the last year no this year he was with the blackhawks yeah 20 games 20 uh not even with the three points uh e2 lots lots to ryanen uh played in finland this year he was the second round pick in 2017 and chase prisky who should be a nascar driver yes that's a great nascar name great name uh sixth round pick in 2016 he had seven points in 15 ahl playoff games this year is that the worst trade in panthers history uh oh i'm sure we could find a worse one but it's pretty bad imagine first off imagine how much better the panthers are this year with tracheck number two carolina paid nothing nothing they paid 20 points from eric

holla that is a project that's a super diet version of the joe thornton trade from boston to san jose uh with marco sturm and well like you just look at the trade and you go there's no picks none there wasn't one joe thornton what was like a rising star in the nhl former like a not a captain a not that far removed from me in a first overall pick and he got traded for three dudes no picks no prospects nothing three dudes and none of them are bad dudes they were all nhl dudes but they weren't joe thornton dudes and then they won the cup so i don't know maybe the panthers are onto something i don't know but it's just the vinnie trojic thing bothers me that is a trade that's a great trade well done it's worked out really well for them don waddell i know

brendan moore gets a lot of the credit and he deservedly so but don waddell what a fucking g that guy is i still i still think you need to if you haven't checked it out look up the bait and switch job he pulled on uh carolina management he was signed to like no money they wouldn't pay a general manager it was like 600 grand which is a lot to me to be honest with you but in nhl level it's pretty small they paid him almost nothing on a one-year deal the wild come in and offer him a fortune the next year and he's like i'm gonna go and they said no you're not we'll pay you whatever you want now it's don waddell's sick he's amazing and if there's gm of the year he deserves it every year he's sick just for that well i mean look at what he's pulled off it's crazy anyway um moving

on and this one is surprising how is it possible guys that colorado looked like the monsters that they actually are the first two games of this series and then the last six periods forgot how to play hockey like vegas not that vegas is ever not strong what was surprising about the first two games is how human colorado made them look and then all of a sudden colorado's the one looking him is it two great teams or is colorado just foot off the gas and something's wrong no i think it's two great teams it's the the first game you'd never know vegas was a playoff team colorado beat them what was it eight one it's crazy yeah wild um i think well no actually that's who vegas beat you see um no it's two incredible teams and uh i would like to see the games be a little tighter

though like the series is tight it's as tight as it can be two two i want the games to be tighter and you can count on five six and seven being that way um this is the series we were all waiting for we've been waiting for the series for months you know no offense to the blues or the wild this is what we all wanted this is what we all expected and it's here now i just want to see the games be tighter it's such a close matchup that it seems like home ice actually has a really strong advantage here because in the two games in uh vegas it seems like vegas really shut down uh colorado's top line like it seemed like uh mckinnon ran in and landis cog were playing a little slower like i know they didn't have or they had one goal combined over the last three games

like after that eight, one victory. So I feel, I feel like it's, it's so close. Like you're saying, Steve, that every little thing matters right now. And I know, I know Vegas has played like a different kind of hockey than they did over the first six periods. And they kind of changed it when they got back home. And there was, I think it was, it was last game, Colorado nine shots in the first period. And they've kind of played, I don't know if it's if rope-a-dope is the right term,

but they kind of let Colorado go at it and then it just kind of it burns out and then Vegas kind of does their thing and then they end up winning the game but yeah they had nine shots in that first period and then nine shots over the next two periods like they kind of they let them go at it and then they kind of shut it down once they got the groove of the game and they're playing at Vegas's pace they're a really great team it's unbelievable to watch we're gonna get a lot of answers from game five and it's a problem for vegas if home ice advantage is that big of a factor because colorado's got it right it's it's it's not good news but uh you know the one thing they really lacked is that true stud back there and we were like go all in on carlson and that might not

have been the greatest move so instead uh they go out and they get alex petrangelo in one of the weirdest circumstances ever um and i and i just wonder if that's what finally gets them over the hump because whoever by the way whoever wins that series it looks like he's playing montreal yeah i i'm looking at this as like i guess tampa's on the other side too but this is kind of the mini stanley cup that's happening right now i think so we got the two best teams going at it Yeah. Every year there is one. Just to further the point of the bolstering up the defense,

the expected goals for Dom Lusigian had the tweet was 1.4 for Colorado. And he followed up the end of the tweet with, Colorado has not had a minus two game score, expected goals game or worse since the second round of the 2019 playoffs. What a performance by Vegas. So yeah, minus 1.4 expected goals for in the game. So Peter DeBoer has taken his sword and stabbed the other team this year

rather than his own goalie. Shocking. Stabbed Philip Grubauer, one of the three Vesna nominees. Did you see the criticism of the Vesna conversation? No, what was the criticism? Well, they announced the three Vesna nominees and it's just the top three goalies and wins.

Let's just rank them one to three. There you go. Well, Vasilevsky is going to win it. and like i didn't care who the other two nominees were yeah and like i guess i looked at it jesse yeah like hey whatever who cares yeah but like no one like grubauer is good but i don't think any colorado fan is like he is a top three goaltender in this league as a leaf fan i'm upset that jack campbell didn't make it in there he won 11 games in a row which is the equivalent of winning like 15 games in a row in a regular season so where's the jack campbell respect

you don't get to do that no i do get to do that i say he does it you multiply all stats by 1.7 or whatever he does it by the way speaking of i say he does it james myrtle's joining us on wednesday what will we talk about i wonder uh we're also going to obviously talk about the playoffs and that sort of thing so don't worry don't worry last week was all leafs this week it's it's fun stuff the teams that are still in the playoffs and you know once you get over the heartbreak of your own team being out it is kind of fun to watch as a disinterested party because you just get to watch the game and it's fun i like it i'm watching tonight can't wait don't even know which game's on don't care gonna watch i i'm sure y'all would yeah well yeah i love that

about the first three rounds of the playoffs there's hockey every single night yeah cup final you dig in a little yeah 100 well and the cup final this year will be interesting because like we could be through the second round here pretty quick except for i guess vegas and colorado and since the nhl waits for no one if that goes to seven i'm sure we'll be halfway through the third round and everywhere else right i i don't can't wait for the north division but we got to wait for everybody else uh it is interesting that the north division now has a travel exemption though yeah i mean it's good news um you know all the players are fully vaccinated the weird thing about that so if you're if you haven't been paying attention to this or you missed it that's okay

because it's fucking boring but the the canadian government has finally let canadian teams cross the border so montreal can play in montreal and play across the border somewhere else and they don't have to go through the 14-day covid restriction or whatever and teams can visit not totally surprising the the issue is all the other teams that play in canada so for instance mls you've got the whitecaps you've got uh the montreal impact and you've got tfc in toronto and they want to play here and they're like we're all fully vaccinated too we've been in the states we were at every team member all the staff we could follow the same protocol as the nhl did and it's crickets from the government and baseball all of the staff and all of the players

fully vaccinated right the jays the jays just confirmed their extended stay until july 27th that seems like the day when it's going to be over in buffalo like that's the fingers crossed but hopefully have they been playing in dunedin or are they in buffalo no they came up to buffalo starting uh this month oh yeah they've been in buffalo so it's going to be now till the 27th of july and hopefully then you know the government's like okay you can play in the rogers center adam you didn't see ridiculous you didn't see lewiston's own uh freaking jack armstrong sitting in the stands yeah no i didn't i haven't i i honestly we're missing because of the nhl playoffs this year running so late we're missing just complete domination by vladimir guerrero

jr it's insane uh one of the best single season j things we've ever seen in our lives and everybody in toronto's like i'm really sad about the leafs so it's a shame really it's a shame so if you are in toronto please watch the chase um i guess from here um there isn't a whole lot more to talk about in terms of like where we want to go with the show today unless you guys really want to get in the world hockey championship where canada won yay that's cool connor brown downtown yeah Andrew Mangiapane, MVP, like insane tournament. Dude, really good player. He's a really good player.

The storyline coming out of the World Tournament, I guess, is Gerard Gallant's going to have a job in like 60 seconds whenever any team's like, hey, we want him, and he's going to have it. It's for sure the Rangers. Excellent coach. It's the Rangers. What I have a problem with,

the Gerard Gallant conversation over the last 24 hours, the problem I have with that is the idea that the world hockey championship in 2021 is what got him the job yeah and not that he's a fucking fantastic coach and okay really because he led the intra squad sends and ducks to gold this is this that's well well now now all doubts out the window we were on the fence the whole time and then he won gold and now we're convinced when they were oh and three to start the tournament they were they ripped up the contract and oh they had to take your own uber yeah yeah they had to they had to canada was going to leave him at the airport

he wasn't going to be able to come back you stay in latvia you stay in latvia gerard but no he gets to come home now like i i don't know that's a great point that's ridiculous i i want to ask a question that I think is important with Gerard Gallant though what's wrong so every person has flaws Florida was pretty good and the players loved him Vegas was really good and the players would have died for him and there was a betrayal when Peter Boer came in and ruined it all why does Gerard Gallant get dropped like that doesn't make any sense to me what's going on there just a perennially disrespected coach and his departure from both teams uh the the question about why is more than fair i i wish i had an answer for you i will say like we know 10

about teams just in general yeah the people they are and the dramas they go through and there's still there's still like i'm waiting for like an expose type piece about what happened to the canucks socially this year not we know what happened to them but i want to know what happened when you need them can we lock a room yeah like there's a every team has some sort of story to be told and so little of it actually gets told all we ever heard about the i think it was the 2004 leafs the last leafs team to ever win a playoff series you all know the infamous story they all broke into uh different cliques and they went out for dinner on their own after they lost that game and that's all we ever heard that's all we ever we never heard about like

this guy didn't like that guy or that guy didn't get along with this guy or this there was this fighter y'all you hear are rumors I would love to know what on earth it is about uh Gerard Gallant and and there's you know why didn't Bruce Boudreaux have a coaching job all year um why he's holding out for the Maple Leafs and I'm holding out for him I want him to be an assistant coach on the Maple Leafs please please we'll throw Ted Nolan in the mysterious coaches conversation like the I don't I don't get it I don't get it it sure seems like if you want a team to win a lot of games uh you'd be wise to hire gerard galan or bruce boudreaux because it's what they do they very rarely don't if the leafs are going to continue to be a dominant regular season team you

need one at least one of those two on your staff i wouldn't even mind both can you imagine that that's a pretty formidable staff what the hell right part of me bruce boudreaux loves the leafs so much and that's why i hope he doesn't join them you don't want him to hate the leafs yeah Ah, he wouldn't hate the Leafs. He might. Why? Because former coach Randy Carlisle, former coach and former captain of the Leafs,

Randy Carlisle doesn't like the Leafs? Maybe. It's just who... So few people seem to leave this team and maintain their reverence for it. You know what I mean? And any of the ones who do end up staying and broadcasting with the team,

or about the team but they don't necessarily have the most glowing things to say about it well if they won i'm sure they would you gotta win stuff man what do you mean if they won what do you mean if they won is dave keon joining someone's broadcast group right now that's a little different steven who won anything you're talking about an absolute like monster of a human being the owner he was a dick yeah and then blocked keon from working like he's no no but what i'm saying is no leaf has won with this team oh okay i know since keon right i'm sure what they'd have to say would be better had they won anything you got jeff o'neill and carlo coliacavo and mike zigamanis and colby armstrong and you know and like i chirp colby

like he was making fun of my skating one day on ice surfing and i said wow thanks for the advice colby that's that's the kind of advice that gets you nine career goals as a leaf and he just laughed because he's like i know you know like well let's get to the press conference then how many goals per million did colby make one yeah made nine three years three mil each nine million dollar contract he had nine goals what unbelievable good for him it's good value for him good for him it's i mean ah we can get into that you know what i don't have nine million dollars so yo i would like that yes adam where do i sign up for that two and five canadians will hear the words you have cancer

that's why every step and dollar raised matters on september 19th join thousands in toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. You gotta try breakfast at A&W.

You gotta try breakfast at A&W. And what better way than with a delicious Pret Organic Coffee Starting at just $1 all day Every day now until December 31st You gotta try Breakfast at A&W At participating

A&W locations in Ontario I don't know if you can do this off the top of your head But I'm going to ask anyways We have an Adams History Corner request There's been a lot going on In the city of Toronto At X University formerly ryerson university yes and last night they uh tore down the egerton ryerson statue out

on campus i am a ryerson alumni uh steve is a ryerson alumni adam mild is a ryerson dropout uh so this this university has a lot of um it's very relevant to this podcast in a way yeah can you speak to egerton ryerson and why the students of this university would want to behead his statue so so uh man okay so here's the here's the short story because i don't know enough detail to properly tell the long one also this is i just got to shout the person who asked the question at tfc and you too thank you to us okay so um egerton ryerson was uh one of the um people when canada became a confederation and it was only the eastern side of the country plus bc with a random land mass in between at that point um it's bizarre that they thought they

could make a country of that but here we are was that rupert's land autumn yeah rupert's land and and uh what's the what was the i forget what the prairies were called but it was some like hudson's thing or whatever and of green gables sure no that's that's east coast don't you dare take and green gables away from nova scotia or pei don't you dare now um i think i think okay so egerton ryerson um was one of the architects of the modern school system in canada he is he was a huge proponent of free school everybody knowing and learning how to read um no matter what class you were from that was really important good so far good so far which is why ryerson polytechnic uh which ryerson was a college before it was a university which is

why nobody took it seriously for a long time after it became a university not true anymore but that's that's the case for a while um it they they named it after him for that reason it's not like he was like it's not like cornelius vanderbilt giving a pile of money to the city of nashville after you know the civil war for reconstruction and going i'm founding a university here egerton ryerson didn't have anything to do with this university they just were like here's a guy and good so far and so this is this is where the so far isn't so good he is one of the main architects of the residential school system which i spoke to you about last episode of the episode before episode before and because of that um i think people are rightly saying hey why do we have a statue up of

a guy who created one of the biggest frankly horror shows in canadian history um and and that's the thing is that you got to remember uh colonialism in our colonial past racial superiority is such a major part of everything that happened probably from about 1500 to about 1950 1960 you could argue it's still happening now um there was it was like an accepted fact especially uh after charles darwin that's when they really put it into words before that it was like it was like while we're doing this we really don't have any justification for this treating other people like shit uh and taking their land from them but since charles darwin came came along and i think it was like the 1880s they had this thing called social darwinism which is well if

you look the whites have all the land and all the money and all the guns and it's that must mean that us whites we're superior and we owe it to our cultural inferior people inferiors in asia in Africa, in South America, and in North America to impart civilization, education. This is the way to live. This is the only way to live because we figured it out. It's us, the Europeans. We have figured out civilization, ignoring completely the fact that Muslims were like 500 years ahead of them. And if it hadn't been for Genghis Khan, the Middle East would be completely different right now and would have absolutely been the head of civilization even to this day, even to this day. Anyway, long story short, racism's probably at its height in the

world, in its justification as well, between the 1880s and about 1910. That's when colonialism hits its peak. That's when social Darwinism hits its peak. There's also a whole bunch of stuff out of Germany called eugenics and things like that. Is it eugenics? Maybe I misquoted, but something like that i think something like that uh where it's basically they tried to so they it's the whole shooting an arrow and then painting a bullseye around it and calling it a bullseye right it's like i i shot this arrow into the wall and i've now painted my target and look at that it's a bullseye they they they work backwards from this theory of well the whites are superior and here's why and said how do we justify it well they did a bunch of science experiments on people

that were for sure not above board and not okay and completely morally wrong. They tried to measure brain size. They tried to measure function. They kept coming up a little empty, frankly. But if you were to go to a museum, say in England, like London, Paris, Munich, Berlin, Vienna, at any point during that time, you would walk into a natural history museum And you would learn about how white people were superior to everybody else. So even the museums were built to reinforce this idea of, you see, we went to Africa and we shot this elephant so we could bring it back, stuff it and show you how superior us, the white men are. and white men is the key word here. And if you don't believe me, read some books, man, it's, it's, it's all out there. And at the end of the day, what the issue with, with Ryerson is, is that yes, there was some good there. There was, he created a school system

and a, and a foundation in this country that people still glob onto today, which is we believe public education here to our immense benefit. But we also have this residential school thing. And it's not just a thing, it's a tragedy in Canadian history. And I'm not sure, and again, there will be people that are in my DMs about this. I'm not sure how much Egerton Ryerson had a hand in the formulation and foundation of public schools around this country. I'm sure it was quite large. So I'd have to do a little more research on that because again, this is off the top of my head, but it's like, if you are responsible for the stripping away of a culture of taking kids away from their families against their will, how can we have a school, an education,

an educational system, a bastion of truth, which is what the point is. That's the point of a university is to, is to reason and to learn and to know what truth is not alternative facts, real facts. How can you build it around a guy who did both of those things? There's a duality to Egerton Ryerson. I grant you that, but you cannot put a statue up of a guy like that because you look at that and you go for what people who get statues are people that have accomplished great things and haven't accomplished it at the expense of hundreds of thousands of people dramatically affected in a negative way the ramifications of of which we are just starting to reckon with there's no way there's no reason that ryerson should be named ryerson anymore

with that gone to light now i went to ryerson had no idea who egerton ryerson was didn't give a shit i know jesse i'm curious because you went there for as long as i did did you once during your four years google who he was no i had no idea his first name was egerton even until like this second that is why the school mascot a ram is named eggy which i always thought was stupid but i never asked the question you you just taught me something this moment eggy the ram well eggy the ram i know i because i was drunk the whole time i went this is great this makes sense let's go let's enjoy rammer time where bottles are 275 now wait there's a big argument that this is erasing history which you always hear no it's not you always hear when

this happens i learned more from this happening than i did in four years ago yeah i never bothered looking it up for myself i was never taught it because i didn't give a shit and evidently the school didn't give a shit they didn't think it was relevant and i took history classes they didn't think it was relevant to tell me who egerton ryerson is now uh what you know has happened in this country has come to light his role in it has come to light now i'm learning i learned from people calling for the renaming of a school and from the tearing down of a statue? I got news for you. Statues do not teach history. Textbooks do. No plaque is going to teach you context. No plaque is going to give you an understanding of extremely flawed individuals.

I mean, America lionizes Washington. Washington owned slaves, guys. He did. Now, he came around to the idea towards the end of his life that maybe that was the wrong thing to do and freed them upon his death. But, you know, we have to look at these figures in the sense of when you have a statue, the sort of the idea is this person is to be respected. This is a person that you want to know about because they deserve your respect. There's a difference between everybody knows who Hitler is, right? I don't see any Hitler statues. We all know who Hitler is. You can learn about Hitler. We don't need the statue, right? And that's an extreme example. There are still statues of Stalin in Russia, but that's a completely different thing. My point in saying

that is you are not erasing history. You are reframing history to the truth. And it's the important part of what's happening here at Ryerson. People are like, oh, don't change anything, whatever. Ryerson didn't have a fucking thing to do with that school. They just put his name on it. So university students there, and actually it came out today that hundreds of faculty want the name changed as well. They all signed a petition.

The kids are calling it the students are calling it University X, which by the way is a way sicker name and they should just stay with that. And then put up a honestly, just put up a statue of Wolverine because he's Canadian. But at the end of the day,

it's a joke, at the end of the day you don't have can you imagine i know it would be kind of cool though like who's gonna argue with that he's a hero um i think but they put the they put the name on the university to honor the person that they wanted to honor and then now we know that he's not somebody to be honored because he did terrible things in his lifetime and and just like uh americans have a major base in their country named after a confederate general a traitorous confederate general who committed the highest crime in the land which is what what's the height what's the worst crime you can commit treason it's worse than murder treason is worse than murder and we have and

the americans have that we have this and we got to deal with it so reframing history is not erasing history reframing history is getting to the truth and people have got to get that through their thick fucking skulls it's outrageous that you think a brass statue is going to teach anything any about about history it's outrageous stupid and i walk by that thing every day in the quad and i didn't know what it was it's a bird toilet yeah exactly sweet it taught me nothing it meant nothing to me and anyone caping for a statue of a dude who died 140 years ago i think needs to give their head a shake i also think we got to look at situations like that as um you know it's it yes it's a chance for learning but keeping the statue up again

denotes respect give people who've actually solved these problems the respect they deserve there's a reason why we need to pull some people off the bills that we've had on for years and move some other people on there you know we've solved major societal problems in the last 50 or 60 years and those people should have some statues and i wouldn't even begin to have the arrogance to tell you who they should be there's people far more educated than me on that but i can tell you it's not this because this is not what canada stands for anymore it might have been when we had a british colonial past which we always will but and it means that we have come forward as a society as has our our predeceasing nation england they got a lot of work to do but they are not they're

not believing these things anymore either right they're pulling down statues left right and center over there same reason and dragging them down the street and throwing them in the lake like they're they're uh they're real serious about it yeah it's really hard to admit that the context of something has changed like in terms of hockey terms like we'll talk about a trade and be like oh you should you should have definitely signed that guy at the time and then like a year later we look back and we're like okay that's a bad contract because the the the world played out the season played out and the expectations and like the stats and it changed. So at the time, it could have been a good thing. It could have been a great thing to give him the name of this

university at the time because we didn't have the information. And now you have more information because time has played out. The world has spun around the sun a couple more times and you've learned something. And now you can edit what you did in the past and change it and make a new decision. That's a great thing. You can always change things. And I also I want to throw this out there. A lot of people are like, why weren't we on this sooner? And I think that's a fair question. I think you have to remember that access to information was severely limited up until about 20 years ago when textbooks started making their way online and Wikipedia started existing and things, things of, you know, literally the things that you could only learn in university. Now you

can actually learn all of the, that subject matter just as thoroughly, maybe without the certification, you can learn it all online all of it back then how many books on egerton ryerson do you think there were and how many people do you think would search which librarian in toronto maybe the toronto public library like the major library for a book on egerton ryerson and then that person has to go to a newspaper or a radio station and say hey this person did some pretty terrible things too right right you understand that that the the reason that a lot of these changes are happening is because people are able to in a second pick this stuff up and go oh my god we can't we can't get behind this anymore remember encyclopedias like look at the big volumes yeah

you just want to look up one word and what it means you got to go to an encyclopedia to look up the history and it's just a little fragment like if egerton ryerson was mentioned in a canadian encyclopedia it'd be a paragraph right there's no way that you could ever ever fully understand that now if you're a native canadian and you've been directly affected by this You would have firsthand experience. But remember, for us who didn't grow up with that until recently, none of this stuff was readily available. And then and then after that, how do you disseminate it? How do you get people to care? And that's why I think this disruption that we're seeing in our society and all things, feminism, race rights, human rights, all of this stuff, it's all happening at once. it's extremely stressful because it tears apart the fabric quote unquote of society, but the fabric is not a fabric. We want it, or we should want these. We have these morals. We have these values, especially as Canadians, we expect something more of ourselves. And now I look at

this as us trying to live up to the values we've espoused as Canadians since world war II, since we were the peace loving human rights nation. That's what I see us trying to do. And I like it. I like it a lot. At least we're trying. And you might say, well, nobody's perfect. Nobody's without sin. All right. Yeah.

We were well fair. Yeah. Like, well, we're not talking about like, you know, he returned his library books late. We're talking about he helped form residential schools. One of the greatest atrocities in this country's history. That's what we're talking about here. So I hope they rename it. I'm glad the statue is gone.

Did you hear the sound it made when it fell? no i didn't was not a particularly well-made statue um people were like was that like was it a basketball like it just didn't crack like it's it looks it was made for durability you know it looked like it came out of a dinosaur size kinder surprise it's funny the people were like people were like so uh well we're gonna form ryerson polytechnic and we're gonna get a statue and uh what's the budget for that as little as possible okay cool sounds good all right literally that's what it was but anyway long story short it's the right thing to do don't care if you disagree and uh uh i don't uh do they have to rename eggy yeah but they can keep the rams thing

i think that's cool just keep it around for the ryerson yeah i'm not anymore well no you're the call him rami you're the x rams yeah rami yo call the ram x hey hey ryerson fans welcome x and he comes out and he does all the mascot stuff well not see you did it too not right you can't say ryerson yeah you can't but his his intro music can be x gonna give it to you from dmx it could be come on welcome to eugene levy polytechnic everybody something like that something fun you know anyway long story short that's my that's my diatribe sorry it was so long yes and thank goodness for the internet that can mobilize these groups and teach and we can all be learned in things that's right the past

i like learned him um this comes from dave dayan dd dayan 15 on twitter are you less likely to watch the amazon prime series do you think the leafs not closing it out cost amazon serious dollars in viewership okay here's so this this is very interesting because i have i have a teeny bit of background and i at least know what it's like to assemble an episode of reality television right so this was my practicum project in university i know it's not on the same level as goddamn amazon prime but but let me tell you what i learned we would sit there for the first day or the first half day and the next day we would hope certain things would happen and then the following day we would hope something else would happen and we would identify all these

stories that are happening and we but we need to be able to wrap this up all the stories need an ending or a cliffhanger or somewhere where at the end of it we're not leaving the audience going well what what happened to this so we we did it was it was a it was a it was a a guy got in trouble one of the dealers at a car dealership got in trouble because the owners like priest bought a car from the place and when it arrived it had a crack in the windshield priest priest is very upset the guy's in trouble how's he gonna make good on this damaged car given to a personal friend of the owner how's how is he gonna fix this problem so we followed it and we we got to the end of it the reason i'm telling you what happened i can't remember this was years and

years ago this was what role are you it's not a hockey game jesse it was only his own show yeah no so what role were you in the practicum project i don't remember my exact title but i was basically in charge of i was basically in charge of following the story and what was so stressful about it is we would have to get a beginning middle and end for all the stories we were following because it's multiple but we need to also have it on camera so we might know the answer to everything but like okay did we arrange an interview with this person to make sure that we got their final thoughts and something we could put a bow on so you were kind of like footage of this the the dop you're the director of photography kind of

sort of sort of sort of i mean keep in mind we're like people who are 20 years old doing this about the amazon series the reason i'm telling you all that is so that you have background now if i'm amazon i'm following the leafs all year there's really i i i can't imagine uh you know there were some dramatic negative moments losing to vancouver those couple games william kneelander going on covid protocol that's going to be a fascinating episode he goes in covid protocol after being at morning skate and all the players go what do could there be an outbreak right now So there's all that, but all season long, you're following the first place, Toronto Maple Leafs, almost all season. You're following the first place, Toronto Maple Leafs, and everything's going right. Everything, everything the whole time. And then the playoffs begin and the Tavares thing happens and that's horrible. and then over the next three games a story you couldn't you couldn't ask the hockey gods for

develops in front of you they win three consecutive convincing games without their captain and then they blow it so like the whole season i like i just need to know what perspective they're making the episodes from because if these are already made episodes the difficult thing is i think they're going to be from a perspective of optimism whereas i'm going to be watching with the perspective of doom because i know what happened you know what i mean it's hard to how do you tell the story of january to the beginning of to the middle of may how do you tell that story without tainting it with what we know now they fucking lost i think i think knowing how they lost is going to be the most interesting part

i think hanging in there to see how confident they were and knowing the ending sometimes like a tarantino movie you know the ending but how do we get here and i think that'll be fucking great is this going to be torture you know what i mean oh i think it'll be spectacular i like you think about the hbo series and how many quotes we got from that oh mama i cannot wait i cannot wait and i bet there are some players not to name any names who are hoping for an image rehab when this comes out be a very very interesting to see how everyone's portrayed i'm i'm not out to get anybody but i hope amazon gets as much control as possible because you're there to shoot a doc not uh not a PR fluff piece right there to shoot a documentary I want to see what happens on you say to MLSC

we're Amazon we can do whatever imagine thinking about you yeah imagine having enough money to think MLSC is poor now you see the partnership is between the league and Amazon which I would argue are on the same level in terms of hey in terms of pull you know so the final cuts are going through batman and his office i see what you mean the nhl is a far bigger entity than maple even prime you know it's it's the prime division of amazon that matters yeah that matters i don't know i think i think if there's a true doc if there's some stuff in there they don't want out they're cutting it out i have to say too amazon prime's pretty freaking good like i love it i love the shows they have like okay do you you guys probably watch more prime

than i do like what are the odds we're gonna see things that maybe the leafs wish we hadn't i think they're pretty good it's a it's a niche sport you're gonna have to you're gonna have to have outrageous moments you need espn talking about this yeah because you can't release this documentary with just everything's great when is it coming everything's great and then the last episode happens they fuck it up like really man we should do a watch party just watch it all together like what you did with the hockey games yep why not why not why not and that steven thank you for that wonderful deep dive into your personal history that you can't remember um so great i know we were all hoping what director of photography wow what is it oh

jesse made that up there's a stunning conclusion and we can't remember it it's amazing it must have been a great show um everyone was happy i remember that part of the conclusion when you brought up comparing it to your ryerson practicum days it made me laugh yeah that's why you took but it's applicable this show is like five minutes longer than it needed to be thanks to you jesse appreciate that that's just yeah he's so pleased with himself right now steve we love you jesse i love you and uh thank you so much for listening to the show guys we will see you on wednesday the steve dangle podcast follow the guys on twitter at steve underscore dangle at adam w y l d e and at jesse blake connection complete