The Steve Dangle Podcast - Make Up Podcast | March 25, 2021

Episode Date: March 26, 2021

On this episode of The Steve Dangle Podcast, Who Wore the Crown? (00:00), Tim Peel (10:00), Joe Yerdon joins the show to talk about Peel and the Sabres (24:00), more on Peel (54:00), and Lowry is STILL a Raptor! (1:15:00). Read Yerdon's article here: https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2010/11/15/colin-campbell-exposed-says-marc-savard-is-biggest-faker-going-berates-officials-for-picking-on-his-son/amp/?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR0P-Qv-pm45ww1DAhQYIzMNPMo6rkP3AiQK6XxN2_Rq9ER-LAfhWtBfHm8 Read Wysh's article here: https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/my-night-at-the-bar-with-tim-peel--nhl-ref-and-object-of-scorn-171058557.html Originally aired: March 25, 2021 Watch the full episode here: https://youtu.be/tCIB7QuF3OI Visit https://sdpn.ca for merch and more. We've joined The Athletic and you can too! Hit the link to subscribe: https://theathletic.com/sdp Visit this episode's sponsors: https://ca.manscaped.com/​​​​ https://bluechew.com/​​​​ https://www.babbel.com/​ https://www.candidco.com/​​ Follow us on Twitter:@Steve_Dangle, @AdamWylde, & @JesseBlake Follow us on Instagram:@SteveDangle, @AdamWylde, & @Jesse.Blake Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

the steve dangle podcast with your host steve dangle adam wild and jesse blake impatiently waiting to see over the next hour of kyle lowry will in fact be a raptor much longer if you're not from toronto maybe this doesn't matter to you as much but you have to understand that we're watching the best player in franchise history potentially walk out the door in the next 60 minutes so it's sort of a big deal for us and you know i think there'll be a lot of discussion around that we're going to save that a little bit to the end of the show but it's kind of sad and it kind of hurts even if it doesn't happen it kind of hurts because you know it's gotta right you know it's it should happen for the future of the franchise it needs to happen

but damn tough to lose kyle lowry hard to believe he's already 35 years old too like i can't believe that yeah i can't believe that that's just it's just crazy so nine years ago i think he joined the raps wasn't that the barniani deal or no was that somebody else no no he almost got traded to the knicks what that's what it was with kyle right it was early on i saw there are people doing like different versions of the trade tree and today's uh norman powell deal is connected to the raptors trading gravis vasquez wow remember that yeah i do i remember I think he was pretty popular for a hot minute in Toronto. He was good for a hot minute in Toronto.

He was. And then not. So, you know, it's a shame that we're waiting on this Raptors news because there's nothing to talk about in hockey. Nothing at all. Nothing that set the entire sport on fire, basically. Dude. This is a huge frigging story.

Well, we can't get to it now. because we need to get to who wore the crown who's it brought to you by jesse uh give me one second to pull up the uh march by the way if you don't know what steve's talking about it's tim peel tim peel is what steve is talking about that's the answer to the big question today's real crown should go to uh gary forbes who was traded for kyle lowry in 2011 to the houston rockets who i don't think he ever ended up playing a game for them and we got the best player in our franchise's history so it's not too bad you know and a future first round pick but like i don't know who that became yeah gary forbes all right and today's uh who are the

crowd do you guys not have takes on gary forbes no i have nothing to say i was waiting for the part where you go kidding his name was actually no that's like i don't i don't there are raptors who came and went who i was like ah yeah i couldn't tell you much about it but i remember gary forbes what i don't remember any of that nope he's a human who existed yogi stewart my favorite i bet yeah chris hubbard is our sponsor of who wears the crown today he played for the raptors in 2003 and no sorry it's to celebrate his daughter brooklyn's seventh birthday oh so her birthday is april 1st and she's the biggest little leaf fan in the world well happy birthday april and hey listen uh when you want to sponsor who wore the crown the best way to get to our

hearts is little kids and their birthdays and congratulations and happy birthday to you uh when you're sponsoring the crown why not why not where reach out to jesse and let us know who you want to shout it out to and what donation you're making because we're getting lots and lots of those as well and thank you so much steve who do you give your crown to today uh well you know it's fun because uh the leafs have not played uh since our last game so uh since our last show last game my brain is on such autopilot uh producer drew is giving me crap because uh we did our dang it's video yesterday and i called them hat picks which is the opposite that's not the same heaven steve that's the friday video not the wednesday um let's give it to

ah i know who i'm giving it to austin matthews i'm giving it to austin matthews the team's best player leader on the ice i know john tavaris is the captain but he is the leader on the ice and when matthews is rolling he is a true superstar in this league the best player on the team no disrespect to mitch marner it's just goals you know goals are a big thing but more importantly he gets the connor mcdavid treatment sometimes in that he's so good we overlook him and someone maybe you guys have it up someone sent us a list of all our crowns from this season yes and matthews is like ninth so i'm gonna give him a crown because damn it he deserves one all right shout out dylan uh at

dylan bt 94 who's been keeping track of our crowns it's a very fun list it's the same reason matthews will never win a writers voted on award it's because he's just it just seems like it's too easy and we never pick them it's ridiculous yeah the heart the heart goes okay well it's connor but who else could it be exactly sometimes they come up with a list of more than three names which is wild and then 2017 happens yeah um jesse who would you like to give your crown to oh i get to go next yeah uh i'm gonna give my crown to the raptors all women broadcast that happened last night yeah round of applause absolutely i think it was uh it's really cool to see something like that it was um amy aubert i believe megan mcpeak kian nurse kayla gray

caper ness and they all of them hosted the game it was just it's a really cool thing i said it on the last show when we had the uh all black line in first time in professional sports or professional hockey in like 50 years when when kids can see it they can believe it and having that there for all little girls out there who love basketball like it must have been cool to turn on the tv and be like hey look at all those look at all those women up there doing the thing that i dream one day i can do so shout out tsm for putting that on shout out the women who uh were on the broadcast who made it happen incredible work and uh shout out you can achieve it kayla gray uh i i told this on on the air virgin but she was when i when my dog escaped i hope you guys remember that in the fall

yes um she was the first person to reach out and dm me and go what can i do oh wow yeah she would and i don't i didn't we've never met in person but she was like instantly what do you need it was pretty amazing so uh shout out to kayla gray super awesome person i do i do love kia nurse's attempts at um like i mean i would absolutely do this too in the situation she and if i may get that garbage out of here oh it wasn't quite jack but uh she tried it was very it was great no that's exactly how she should have said it yes no yes that's the only way it would have worked right it's so good um i want to i want to shout out uh a reporter named david w cochran for the cbc in ottawa for today right now breaking that the federal government in canada is poised to

approve a seven-day quarantine with extra testing for nhl players traded from american to canadian teams before april 12th um according to a government source that means ladies and gentlemen that the 14-day quarantine that is preventing eric stall to toronto from happening will no longer prevent eric stall to toronto from happening so eric thank you welcome to the leaks appreciate it sorry i'm already getting inundated with tweets are you done recording the podcast yet we are not thankfully so that should change the makeup of the trade deadline a little bit um and like they said extra testing if you test them i don't i don't know if you test people over and over and over again i think eventually you're going to know one way or the other if they have it

and i think also it would help too if um you know if the vaccines are available in their area if every nhl player gets it um probably easier to trade you cross border don't you think uh probably i'll just say listen do whatever's safe and also helps my team yeah which would be a vaccine anyway listen uh jesse who are we shouting out again who was the sponsors you know i'm terrible with names it's chris's uh seven-year-old daughter brooklyn brooklyn happy birthday and thank you for listening to who wore the crown when you're listening to who wore the crown why not why not make a charitable donation or shout out your kid too because that's really sweet and happy birthday april 1st was the birthday is april fools yes it's coming up on

april that's it's that's a tough birthday to have in your early teens that's a tough birthday all right now um i don't know guys is there any other story to talk about other than tim peel no not really uh anderson went on ir for a little bit officially you know is that he's still on it i didn't see that i didn't even see that yeah yeah he went on um i'll pull it up here okay but he's officially on like let's talk about that fuck him we don't need that oh okay really reggie anderson out seven to ten days there you go well i hope it's i hope it's more than that because it seems like he needs some time i'm pretty sure about the ir retroactive cap space stuff from last episode i think that'll probably end up happening but they're just being very

cautious about it now did you guys do some reading last night because i did some reading uh i read i read a lot of stuff my twitter timeline was surprisingly full of some of the most horrendous takes on this particular incident that i've ever seen like i can't i don't even know how to fathom the way certain people who represent the game view the game and think fans want the game can you explain what happened first yeah where do we start well let's start with let's start with tim himself the peel peel master this is usually your bag adam you want to do this so tim peel nashville detroit game useless fucking game no one cares and we're playing that game because yeah because you want to get traded out of the city that you're in let's be honest right

okay so then so for whatever reason you've got what the most tenured nhl referee the guy who knows the rules the best the guy who knows the rules so well that he's done multiple stanley cup finals which is a big deal for a ref and he's retiring in april this guy has been exposed to the league for decades yes he was i he's at least done 2011 and 2019 oh okay so i know he's interesting i've been around for a while and tim peel um well liked well respected and as they are going to break a clip runs saying basically i was trying to get nashville a penalty early and people were like who said that the only people on the ice that are mic'd up and it was clearly somebody that was because you know the difference between a microphone like this and a and a lab microphone

on the ice you can hear the echo uh the sound isn't as full you know you know what a microphone from the ice sounds like well who is it washinsky tweeted both guys names out which one of them was it? Well, and obviously there are people in hockey who know the game so well. They are nerds that know the difference between Tim Peel's voice and the other guy's voice. And good for you if you're one of those people. I am not

because I don't care that much about the referees. Wish would know because he drank in a bar with Tim Peel. Right, so there was a story there too. Yeah, we'll get to that later. Also, I got the audio ready whenever you want it, Adam. Can you play it? Let's go.

it wasn't much but i wanted to get a fucking penalty it wasn't much but i wanted to get a fucking penalty by the way the he's from new brunswick and if you can't tell by the way he says fucking that guy that is a new brunswick man that is i have been there and that is a new brunswick man Now, it's interesting, because the first thought is, who is it? My first thought is, who let that run on the air? And apparently, it was a broadcast technician on the game who was testing the line, wanted to make sure that the referee's mics would actually work through the broadcast, because that's really important if they're going to have a penalty and call it. that's something you do all the time you kind of you pot up things and you just check it when you're in a tv studio on a truck because everything's going so fast as an audio technician you can sit there and you just pot up a line be like oh i hear something pot it down usually don't

have that come to air he thought that that they were to commercial had they been this never makes the air we never hear about it yeah here i got i got the tweets from sean shapiro uh on the tim peel thing i was curious of uh how the clip made it onto the broadcast turns out an audio technician in truck was checking on ref mic and thought broadcast had already gone to commercial uh this also isn't uncommon in broadcasting audio is checked and sometimes the commercial space is missed by a couple seconds obviously 99 of the time no one notices or something incriminating is said right really what did uh what did uh you just say what i just said yeah wasn't it along those lines of that tweet you never just get through a fucking show always gotta get shit

on for something jesus christ i just try to help i'm halfway through reading it i'm like this is exactly what adam and jesse just fucking said but i'm gonna keep saying it hopefully no one notices and there it is how long into the show are we 10 minutes jesse what i'm confused about is why why why were they testing the line and by the way where did gary go to school i just need to know the zoo let's talk some more about the zoo tim peel once visited the zoo and he pointed at a kangaroo and he said that's a polar bear and i said you got that call wrong too tim now anyway so so here's um here's where it gets very interesting you know obviously um this is a mistake by a broadcast technician. It goes to air. People go, what the hell? Now, I wonder

if this is the non-Twitter era. In fact, if this is the early Twitter era, before you get any sort of video replay that fans can literally strip off their television, throw on the internet and make it go viral over and over and over again, you wonder if this local game between two nothing teams and two markets that are not really excited about their hockey teams right now detroit's excited about the future and they should be but right now they're not really excited about the current red wings right yeah i wonder they make it tough if this ever even sees the light of day again and i don't think it does but the reality is there are too many people out there who are stripping these things putting them online and frankly doing everybody else's service because

it gives you a nice little sneak peek into how the game is called now you're probably asking if you don't know already what happened with the referee man well it's interesting the NHL has said Tim Peel will not ref another game again which amounts to them giving him a four-week vacation was he fired no will he still have a pension yes he just will not ref another game again because they take the integrity of the game seriously which is what Bill Daly from NHL head office, who is the second in command, to Gary Bettman said. Now, you take the game seriously. If you really did, and if you really thought what he did was egregious, let's say Tim Peel, and he wasn't, let's say he was caught betting on the game. Then Tim Peel would be fired.

Then the integrity of the game is called into question. When you make an action that causes people to doubt the integrity of the game you get fired the NHL is very aware of this they clearly through their actions do not think that what Tim Peel was doing it's not about what he said because this is a public facing move they think they clearly do not think that what he was doing at the time giving Nashville the early penalty when maybe they didn't deserve it maybe it was a weak call, they clearly don't think that that's affecting the integrity of the game despite their statement. Now, if you are to look at, and I want to bring this up to you guys, and then I'm going to let you run with it, okay? Sure. This goes back to an issue that people have had with

the NHL for a long period of time. And it's this evening out. You can catch it. They do the even out penalties if you've never been aware of this before you're going to be sort of shocked by this but have you ever found that oh if your team gets a couple of penalties go their way in a row that they instantly get some weak ass call about the next minute after their first their second power plans whether it's or it's either you get the penalty called against you or the team that keeps taking penalties continues to struggle but the whistles are put away now i looked back at the last three nights of hockey i actually right up until saturday i didn't look at saturday night because there's like 12 games and i didn't have the time to do the research but i wanted to see

how many games finished tied in penalties or within one penalty of each other i found three total that were not holy shit out of how many uh well let's count shall we a couple dozen so here we go last night penalty stack up is this flames and sends three three the ducks and wild are seven too. But if you pull out the fighting and instigators, it's 2-1. I'm talking about in-game penalties here. I'm not talking about extra added 10-minute misconduct bullshit. That's not a penalty, right? It's different. Pens and Sabres, 5-3. Jets and Vancouver, 3-3. Kings and San Jose, 3-2. Previous night, the Tim Peel night. Jersey and Philadelphia, 4-3. Florida and Chicago, 3-2. Detroit-Nashville, Tim Peel game, 4-3. Dallas-Tampa, 4-3. Phoenix-Colorado, 4-3.

You noticing a trend here? Monday nights. Sabres-Rangers, 4-3. Jackets-Canes, 3-2. Flames-Sens, 2-1. Isles-Flyers, 2-1. Wild Ducks, 3-3. Colorado-Phoenix, 3-2. Vancouver-Winnipeg, one one vegas st louis three two and san jose la kings six three which is rare see how rare that is and i just and for shits and giggles let's do four more on sunday night pens jersey two two tampa bay florida seven six vegas and la five three dallas and nashville two too. The NHL has pushed its referees for years to call even amounts of penalties or within reasonable even amounts for the entire time. Rather than calling their own rule book, you have to understand that there are teams with different characteristics. We can all identify, say the

Boston Bruins, I would even say Tampa Bay with Blake Coleman and some of the guys they have and Pat Maroon, you know, guys that maybe are more prone to taking penalties than the average team. but the NHL will even out the penalties between the teams that are more likely to take them and the teams that are least likely to take them just because they want to be seen as fair. When in actual fact, that's the most unfair thing you can do. It's inaccurate. It benefits a certain team. And you're exactly, and you're not calling your own rule book. And that's why tougher teams like Boston, you don't have to like this and Boston Bruins fans, you should love this.

it affects your team positively because you will take some penalties, but you'll also get a lot of penalties that just won't be called because they're trying to play the game. Even Boston smart. They knew that. And they built a team like that. And if you, if you want to debate me on this,

please keep going. You want to go through all 14 games on Saturday night, the previous Friday where there was like six, keep going. You can go back years. Do you guys want to bring Joe into this conversation? Yes, absolutely.

I forgot he's going to be on the show here. We got to set it up a little bit. yeah um because so this goes back so far and there's a big issue here what is the first thing that i messaged you guys uh the night the tim peel stuff happened what is the first thing i messaged you i don't remember you know if i if i lost money on the detroit nashville game oh yeah i want my money back i want every dollar every cent that's an illegitimate game i bet on an illegitimate game i lost money you give it back if i bet 500 bucks and i lost it you give it back if i bet uh on you know the over or i bet on the spread or i bet on anything you're

giving my fucking money back and elliot friedman basically was talking about the gambling implications so wavelengths um on the broadcast i think it was last night the nhl is trying to get more and more into gambling it's an enormous part of the entire business model of the arizona coyotes we've learned recently through ownership they want to get in arena betting you can't have illegitimate games and we've all known this has been going on the facts back it up right the numbers are there to have concrete proof to if you know the next penalties if you know tim peels or whoever because you shout out to tim peel for being the first ref to ever do this you know what i mean he's just the one that got caught he's the one who got caught um but if you

know that the refs watching you like a hawk and and guys were tweeting about this like it's normal not understanding the point that they were making they're like all right boys yeah we got we got three straight penalties uh for us which means they're going to be looking to call one against us which means you know that even up calls are a thing you went to the locker room talked about it and adjusted your game because of the way the refs call it and you have major media personalities and we'll get to joe major media personalities going well it's affected it's benefited your team too and hurt them the fuck it's not good what are you talking about what are you talking about okay so you put your whistles away it benefits uh the dirtier teams the greasier teams you uh

use the whistles a lot oh so i guess you want a lot of penalties well that benefits the uh speedier more skilled teams hey i have a wild idea guys call the fucking game the way it's supposed to be called now sorry we'll get to joe here so joe is coming on because he wrote an article 10 years ago for nbc on something that is not talked about nearly enough and it is a court case in which the nhl had to get rid uh or not had to get rid of an official they fired an official that official took the league to court and therefore uh emails from colin campbell with the nhl were released to the public and holy shit did he say some things let's bring him on joe yurden well known die by the blade the ap joe we've known you for years it's great to finally have you on the show honestly

we've been following your work forever yeah it's all it's awesome to be with you guys I mean geez I've been following you guys forever as well so this is this is great at least a decade as we're about to find out we've never brought someone on because it's something they wrote 10 years ago right and and Joe I mean this the last 48 hours in the NHL has been pretty insane this Tim Peel stuff has been very very interesting and before you were coming on for context we were sort of setting up the issue of evening out calls and this story that you wrote 10 years ago all of a sudden and this must be wild as a journalist this is something that just doesn't happen when you're when you're a podcaster that you know said something a decade ago comes in and it's like

bam the most relevant thing of the day so can you tell us at the time about the situation and what happened well it's it's pretty wild because it with all of this stuff coming back around again with with this whole peel situation and everybody's reaction either being a mix of yeah this is what we've been talking about forever or oh my god this is actually happening and you know it's one of those flash cut things to me and i'm like i've been saying guys this is insane uh but back in the day uh tyler dello who now works for the new jersey devils uh had uncovered a pile of emails that were part of a part of a case in which the nhl was settling with a former referee in which Colin Campbell had reached out to Stephen Walkam,

who was, is the head of referees still? I'm not sure. I don't know if he retired. But he was for a while. And it involved him reaching out and complaining about players. Calls made against Mark Savard saying that this guy is just a faker, he's a diver, and maybe don't go so harsh on guys that get in his way. and also complaining about calls made against his son, Gregory, which a little bit of a conflict of interest there.

I can't believe that wasn't the end of it. Right. Right then and there. Right then and there. That's the whole thing that drives me nuts, going back and rereading that story, which I wrote for Pro Hockey Talk 10 years ago, was that basically my closing paragraph was like,

oh, this is probably it for Colin Campbell. And nope, it totally was not. When you're in, you're in. Yeah, that's definitely the way it is in the NHL. If you're in everybody's good graces, you're there until you want to leave. And let's face it, Tim Peel hasn't exactly been in great graces with the league. I mean, certainly him showing up at Foley's in New York City with Greg Wyshynski and shooting the breeze and doing shots probably didn't sit too well with them.

And he wasn't a guy that got too many playoff assignments anyways. We certainly didn't see him get past the first round too much. If he did, he did do a couple of Stanley cups though. Did he not? I thought I, I thought I saw that was, am I wrong about that? Cause I did say that earlier, but I thought maybe, maybe I'm wrong on that. I'm not totally sure on that. I know after the whole thing with Wyshynski happened, I was always keeping an eye on to see how far into the playoffs he would go.

And usually he was on the cut list after the first round, but wow, that, that might've, you know, that might've been like a Stefan OJ type of thing where it was like, Hey, you've got a lot of bad publicity it's time for you to go bye-bye uh kind of thing which i think everybody's forgotten about stefan og and what happened with alex burrows ages ago which is which is a whole other thing where it was apparently og had a had a beef to grind with with burrows and burrows being alex burrows said decided to not be quiet about it and called him out on it and oj was under the microscope for forever until he was kindly asked to retire uh which they let him

do which is kind of what happened to tim peele here and yeah i know right steve like this is it's a lot it's funny how things work out and you know the fact that tim peele wasn't fired he was just not scheduled anymore it was a very milton from office space kind of thing like hey we put your we put your desk in the basement and you know hey if you're not getting a check well hey that's fine is that because he knows where the bodies are buried i think the referees would know where they're buried but it's just a question of whether they report it or not that's uh that's the whole thing so you know so when i when i read your piece from 10 years ago so it's it's about a court case an official was fired and a wrongful dismissal i think is is what he was asking for

by simply being like hey we'll pay you not to ref in the nhl right now you're not fired just go away is to me it seems like the nhl is trying to avoid going through that again with tim peel what do you think yeah um i their move when these types of things happen is that they want it forgotten about as quickly as possible and i don't blame them because when it involves officials and integrity of the game and the whole the whole ball of wax that goes with that uh you don't want that to be an overhanging subject of discussion you don't want to be you don't want that to be the focus taking away from the games and the the problem there being that like yeah okay maybe in a lot of a lot of leagues and a lot of fans just might forget about it i

mean you know nfl fans certainly kind of forget about some things like you know people got mad about past interference calls and everybody forgot that involved the the saints and the and the rams a couple of years ago where the saints saints guys were getting mugged and then they were just like oh we'll just change the rules it's fine or the tuck rule going way back when where they're just like oh yeah no it's fine it's uh it's not a rule now um but in the nhl everybody remembers the stuff and any the hockey fans have memories like an elephant and they never forget and yeah i mean yeah sure you might forget about oj and burrows because it's just it's just a blip considering all the nonsense that we see with with calls constantly and there's always some

kind of some kind of problem and you know i i found it hilarious that the first player to speak on it was matt duchesne considering that offside reviews came into came into effect mostly because of a play that involved him in nashville of all places uh while he was with colorado and you know it's if it's not one thing it's another and if you're calling into the question the integrity of the game that's what gets everybody upset because because now they gotta now they gotta worry about gambling like gambling's a much bigger and legalized deal uh in a lot of places teams have deals with gambling outlets the league has deals with with a gambling outlet so you can't go upsetting the money and if you got referee questions man who's who's gonna want to spend

money on it well joe that was what we were sort of talking about um coming into this because there were about in the last i would say four days there's about 20 games and i can find maybe three that have penalty uh differential of more than one most are tied or within one and then there's a couple there's one with san jose got like seven penalties because they were just being they were just not good um and then a couple others vegas game or whatever but the chances in real life of two teams going head to head and having almost the same penalty differential and having it happen. I don't know how many, how many days there are this NHL season, but they're usually like a hundred days of, or 140 or whatever the hell it is. There's a ton of days of NHL and almost all

of them are within a, within one or tied in terms of penalty differential. And we have teams with very different characteristics in this league. We brought up Boston and Bruins fans are going to be pissed at me for bringing that up but the Leafs have experienced Boston the most that's why they're top of mind they're a tougher team they play a tougher game and they know they know literally how to manipulate the refs they do a great job of it that's how you win that's part of it but when you even out penalties when you have a team like the Leafs which they were a little bit softer a little bit faster uh playing against the Boston and the penalty differential is going to be the same, then you've eliminated what the Leafs are good at. And I wonder how long the league can

continue to do this without starting to actually call the game. Because when you do get gambling involved, gambling's bigger than the NHL, much bigger. Yeah. And you know what? I'll flash it back to 2006, 2007, and think about how the Anaheim Ducks were built that year. And they were basically built to take advantage of that fact um you know they they ran a you know they ran a team out there with chris pronger as a captain who ran afoul of the law constantly during that playoff run um you know you have brad may out there who you know hey great leader at all but he's a tough guy uh you know you get cory perry as a kid kind of running around out there just you know cutting his teeth on being somebody that everybody grew to hate and just everybody

involved with that team was you know typical brian burke let's get nasty truculence though you know that whole thing like that team was built on basically taking advantage of of the referee saying well they can't call everything just do whatever you can we'll take care of it and they got away with it constantly um they got away with it in i think it was the conference final against detroit uh you know they basically almost ended dean mccammon's i think it was dean mccammon's career in ottawa uh there was just a brutal elbow and they were just kind of like you gotta do you know them that's hockey that's that's toughness and from that point on it was basically just kind of like well you got to keep it even no you don't you can punish teams for breaking the rules all

the time and if they do it well that's their own fault i don't care how much the bench screams about it i don't care how much the coaches and the gms get mad that that's the case if you break the rules you should be punished and the the sad part is is that everybody thinks of that 05 06 year fresh out of the lockout and everybody says well if you call every penalty it's all gonna be gross like that i was like i don't know man i thought it was pretty fun it was a fun year there's like eight penalties aside it was great you know and people were just like oh you can't have the whole game on the power play you can if you keep breaking the rules like that'll adjust that's exactly and teams did adjust and speed took over skill took over it was great and then

everybody was like wow the game's too fast guys are gonna get hurt it was like i don't know guys are gonna get their heads taken off otherwise that hurts more so to me it's always been about it's been about game management forever and i mean it goes back even before that i mean if you want to get back into the stone age days of the of the the trap years and the the um the uh the obstruction years like that was all based on that that's why they let everything go and um you know beside you know never mind my own insane conspiracy theories about why that happened but um but the fact was was that they were just like we're not going to do this every team's doing it so we're just going to let it be and that's completely what game management is and that's bad what's the

benefit like why do they do this what does how does the league benefit from this or how did they before gambling got involved they benefit because it keeps the games closer ideally um and that's how they always want it that's why the point system is still as broken as it is it's the the fake idea that they're going to be able to have more teams involved in the playoff race because they have the the point system the way it is if you keep the penalties even well not one team's going to be able to have their power play run out there constantly and and score goals at will because they're only going to have two or three or four opportunities compared to the other team getting the same chances so they look at it as a way to just keep things balanced because that's

they always want balance they don't want they don't want teams to be over excelling and and just running away with stuff because then it's just it becomes one-sided in their view and i don't know man i i'm getting kind of tired of seeing a lot of bad teams at the bottom and then just a just a whole glom of very average teams in the middle and maybe one or two that seem to exceed expectations and that to me it's it's the whole race for parody and parody is bad parody you're not allowing excellent teams to be to be themselves you're not allowing you know you're allowing bad teams to catch up with teams that they shouldn't even be in the same contest with and you know i get it you want to keep arenas filled you want to do all that stuff but

it's such a drag it's such a drag and it happens and it's literally every sport now with with all this stuff and caps get blamed and all that but really it's it's this run to make everybody on the same par is just insane because some teams can just evaluate better some teams just have better talent let them be the better teams just let them excel joe do you have any guess on what the nhl's next step is like do they have all the referees on a zoom call and tell them not to do these things or do they just kind of continue to try and bury the story so people stop talking about it i i think it's it's going to be business as normal um you know it's you know tim peel i think is just disliked you know for the most part i mean when you know a referee's name it's not

usually for a good reason it's it's pretty rare when it is i mean not everybody can be uh can be the guy out there just doing you know five minutes for fighting and just you know turning it into a little bit of a us but i mean you know it's uh you know it's it's that sort of thing where if you know like if you go to a game you know and you hear tim peel announced before the game what's your reaction are you just like oh boy here we go this is this is going to be some kind of this is going to be some kind of mayhem like that's that's how it is with that so they're gonna they're gonna look at it as an aberration and say you know listen we don't have a problem with our officiating everything is good there's nothing to see here pay no attention to the man behind

the curtain i think that's that's the way they're going to treat it because that's the way it's always been treated so that's that's how the nhl deals with fans whining though and that's how they dealt with it in 2011 or 2010 whenever it was uh you wrote that article uh yeah because really it was just a bunch of nerds let's be honest it was it was a bunch of nerds like us uh digging through these uh documents that tyler dello dug up and now he works for the devils i would love to see their penalty differential since he got hired and i would love to see the oilers penalty differential when he worked for them uh so you just got nerds going through their files and it makes a few blogs and wow isn't this interesting and the nhl responds no it's not what happens then when the

gambling companies go fix your shit now i bet they do yeah uh they 100 do and i think we all have that to look forward to at some point um you know i look at like what's happened with with tv in the united states where all the fox sports carriers became bally's sports you know and you know they're not bally's isn't a broadcast network they're again they're a casino like they're gambling and now they now they run tv stuff so that's already a big part of it and like i said there's already sponsorship deals in place and if the leagues get in the leagues getting a cut of the gambling money from for many of these places where where it's okay like they're getting a cut like you know even i know it's it's a competitor with you guys but even the score jumping into this

in a big way with gambling like that's that's that's a that's a whole that's a whole other thing where you know you're talking about a giant operation of people just saying hey this is going to make us a lot of money and it's going to make you money too and let's face it money talks and the NHL might be dumb in a lot of ways but they're not dumb when it comes to money because when it means money in their pocket they're going to do what it takes to make that better the thing I wonder about and it's you know to me it starts with like doing even just basic injury updates instead of just being like uh yeah upper body uh i don't know we'll see when he comes back or you know lower body uh i don't know he's he's week to week how many weeks like how you know how

soon are we talking about you know getting clarity on that stuff i mean nfl teams sometimes play loose and free with that i mean i think of bill belichick putting you know his entire offense on the list being you know uh being uh you know questionable for a week and it's just kind of like all right you're just being you're just being a dick about it so whatever have fun but um but if you try to generate more interest and let's face it degenerate interest is still interest and if you want gambling money in there you gotta be truthful you gotta you gotta show that at least that there's some sort of faith in what you're doing and you know listen if they want it to be game managed balance let everybody know it's going to be that way if you're going to call the game by the rules

okay fine but if as long as it's clearly stated that like this is just the way it's going to be instead of just wink wink nudge nudge like oh no we're officiating right you know you're not going to be able to get a lot as much money moving on hockey let's hockey's tricky enough to bet anyways and if you're clouding it up with this kind of goofball stuff i mean especially if you're if you're doing prop bets on power plays and things like that like i don't know man like that's that's still cash on hand that's still cash that can be in your pocket and if you're just going to avoid it you're not going to see it and then people as soon as people stop caring about it man they bail and bettors are not going to stick around they don't have any patience for for any kind of nonsense

when it comes to this stuff do you think the nhl has gone too far down one road with this game management stuff to now turn back because if they do change now even if it's for money people are going to say well okay so that's what you were doing here's what i could see happening this year goes on the way it does you know the way you expect you know the rule book will change completely in the playoffs again and then when next season comes around i think you're going to see some new directives and maybe the beginning of the season you start seeing the calls being made a little bit different and suddenly you're going to be like wait a minute this isn't i mean these are the right calls but it's a little weird they're getting made so regularly this is this is

fascinating because I could see them just kind of trying to play it off and just be like, no, no, no, no, no. Everything's fine. Everything's fine. And then just come right back and say, Hey, look, things are different. This is a different season. We're going to pump things up, but you know, we've got our ESPN deal. They don't want to see things kind of be all clouded that we got all this other stuff. Let's, let's make sure we got things all squared away. I mean, think about, think about the old crease rule back in 99,

that whole, you know, and I don't even, you know, I'm mentioning that. I mean, being in Buffalo, I might, I might get a cruise missile sent through my window. But I mean that whole year that, and the whole playoff and right up to the very end, they're like, Nope, this is the rule. This is the way it is. That's how it is. And then the next year, the rule was nuked completely. Like never happened.

Sorry. We know we did this for two years, but it never happened. So these things can change, but it's doing it mid season. The only guy that can make a mid season change is Sean Avery. And there it is. It's about it, man. i wish he did it i wish it was him joe uh speaking of cruise missiles the buffalo saver season uh and here's the here's the funny part the the fact that they haven't won in 15 games but it's

not a losing streak it's a winless streak because they lost a couple of games in overtime because as you mentioned earlier the nhl point system is broken for parody sakes but that's not even going to save the sabers this time what what do you think what do you think's going to happen now that obviously the quarantine rule between the United States and Canada has changed. What do you think happens with the players that are dealt? Who do you think's gone and where do you think they're going? And then what happens with the Sabres going forward?

What do you do with this team? I think it's time to dust off the old video of the fire sale, the Buffalo Sabres fire sale video that went viral. What was that, like eight years ago, nine years ago? I forget, but yeah. I think all bets are on Taylor Hall going somewhere. um i would put money on any one of i mean i know you guys are very hot for him up in toronto and people are pointing at the lack of production and saying this like oh geez he's no good no he's

really good the sabers are historically terrible this year so um so he's he's got to go to some place where they need him i don't know if it's going to be the islanders uh that seems to make a lot of sense with lee out for the year uh or pittsburgh maybe with malkin being questionable you know for you know who knows how long i mean obviously i mean toronto just take everybody on please just you know make it even funnier if the leafs have to play in buffalo in the in the playoffs right point like i'm i'm all for chaos so i really if it means the leafs in like this in the stanley cup semifinals and having to play in buffalo please please make it happen i want to laugh forever i think it would be i think it would be amazing last last thing with the sabers

it's unfathomable how bad rasmus dalin has been and it's more unfathomable the idea of trading him um what do you think the percentage is there like because surely a player with that kind of talent first overall pick 2017 four years ago for god's sake surely he can be salvaged you would hope so and he i think the sabers are in a position where he has to be um what i worry about is that it's going to turn into a Rasmus Ristolainen uh Redux situation where you put the blame on the coaching and the situation so much which I personally do I think Ristolainen fell into bad habits um playing for playing under Ted Nolan and then you know just kind of getting stuck in like hey banging off the glass and throw it out um playing 20 minutes a night on one of the worst teams ever

in 14, 15, like that's no good. You can't have young guys like that, who you're counting on to be, you know, a future, you know, top four defenseman. You can't have a guy like that play 20 plus minutes a night. They did. And I think in Darlene's case, everything that he did great his rookie year, they've spent the entire Ralph Kruger spent the entire time trying to say, well, we're not going to turn them into Eric Carlson. We need to have him play defense. And I was like, I don't know. I think a guy with great possession numbers who gets 70 points a year is really good so why not i don't know maybe lean into that a little bit more instead of just you know hey throw your elbows around hit some people get bigger like it's it's backwards it's

very backwards thinking it's it's been around in buffalo since like phil housley like i mean granted they traded housley for another hall of famer so i don't think of that too bad but i mean they you know brian campbell they got tired of i don't know he turned out to be pretty good he was he was all right andre sacara got run out for the same reasons he was a pretty good player you know, like just guys who, who play offensive defense and don't get out and rough it up and get nasty in the corners just seems to make people get weary here. And I, for the life of me, I don't understand it, but but yeah, Darlene, they cannot afford, they cannot afford to have that go sideways. And, you know, maybe Dan Girardi is going to help them out. I mean,

we know what Girardi's career was. He's, you know, he was a tough guy. He blocked a ton of shots. He was a torts guy you know maybe he can help get his head around here in the meantime but for me go hire a coach that you know can get it done um you know they've tried every version of of a new coach they went outside the box with Kruger the new one up and comer with Housley the Stanley Cup winner with Bilesma they've done all this stuff go get go get freaking Bruce Boudreaux like I think of what he did in Washington and you know he pushed Mike Green to be a just hey listen I know your d stinks just go and just go and get a ton of points i don't care about the defense just do it and in minnesota i mean he gets to run with ryan suiter and jared spurgeon spurgeon became a pretty

damn good defenseman under boudreaux um and so i just see all guys like that where i'm just kind of like hey this this guy's out there right there just go hire him just just bring him in right now and instead of just kind of dawdling around and waiting for a college coach to become available or finding some sort of cheap way to get through it. But, man, you can't screw up on Darlene. You just can't let that go sideways. But Kruger is going to make $3.75 next year, part of his deal. Can they afford to wrap $7 million up in coaching?

Because Boudreaux is going to cost something like that. Yeah. I mean, they've done it in the past when they've fired guys and had to hire a new guy where they had a bunch of money tied up with coaches they had just fired for the next year or two. Okay. I mean, they should do it if they feel weary about doing it. It's a weird time to draw a line in the sand

because if it goes really sideways next year, if you think about trading Darlene's bad, when Jack Eichel's no-move clause kicks in after 22, 21-22, you want to be Kevin Adams and being told, hey, I want to leave and here's the only teams I'm going to accept going to. Good luck. Yeah, right. but you don't see jack being traded in the next i don't know in the in this calendar year no i don't

think so i i think i think i think with ralph being fired this whole season just being a murphy's law situation where everything that could go wrong has gone wrong i think that you kind of have to take a pass on it i mean the the covid thing that happened with the devils like you know that they were doing okay up to that point i mean things weren't great but like they at least won games yeah you know they basically had a hex put on them by covid and they've been you know lost 15 straight since then so um so i'm willing to give this year a pass but i mean clock's ticking as far as jack's concerned like he's at some point you just get sick of it you want to go you mentioned uh college coaches briefly there is mike babcock anybody's thought

in the organization like is that crossed anybody's mind you bring in mike babcock and kind of straighten things out no i don't think so i think i think once mike babcock decided to go to toronto instead of buffalo a few years ago uh that that that basically sealed it with the with the pagulas uh pagulas have a long memory for that kind of stuff and i don't know for sure that they feel like they got slighted uh by by mike but i know that they are in preparations to get ready to announce him as the coach uh until you know i think the story the story the way it went with Babcock was that his agent told him to go, Hey, talk to the Leafs one more time, kind of like how Tavares work, but,

but, but, but Hey, listen to the Leafs, see what they got to say and, and, and go from there. And obviously that, that's how that, that changed out. But I don't, I can't imagine they circle back the ghouls love to circle back to guys that they've interviewed in the past for positions, but I just cannot see them doing that with Babcock. Right, Joe. I mean, great to have you on the show. We're going to have to keep bringing you back because there's a,

The Sabres are, unfortunately, in this case, we're going to have to keep talking about it. I have a feeling that if anybody's going to make some noise at this very dead deadline, which is what we're thinking it's going to be, you know, we're going to have to get a little bit more insight on that. So, Joe Yerden, thanks so much for your time today, man. And it's great to finally have you on.

Yeah, no, this is awesome, guys. It's a pleasure to talk with everybody. It's sweet to finally bring it on. I'm glad I took a story I wrote 10 years ago to make it happen. That's my favorite part of this. we want to see you writing more now in 2021 and we will include a link to that story by the way uh in our uh in our bio on youtube for anybody that wants to check it out joe yurden thank you so much for your time today appreciate it guys thanks so much well joe was great uh and uh with

that we conclude this tim peele thing i'm sure in 10 years this will come up again and we'll be 10 years old are talking about it again and nothing will have changed the nhl is broken right yeah like that's not how you should run a professional sports organization where your games are just rigged for parody like that problem the problem is that it's an echo chamber at the top yeah they do a lot of things right they do at the top well the media was everywhere by uh twitter it was wild yesterday the the the amount of people going the game management's the right way no it fucking isn't uh it's terrible um well and like well now they're not gonna wear mics anymore ah so they can get back to max match fixing and peace right so we can cheat in secret like okay like and and by

the way so you everyone listening you have reading homework uh joe yurden's piece from 2010 or 11 we'll link to it also greg waschinski 2015 when he was with yahoo sports so he criticized tim peele for a long time and magically and this is the sort of thing that i feel like only wish would do they met up at a bar called foley's and they got drinks together and tim peele actually got in trouble for it um but they you know they hashed it out you know tim peele was talking about hey listen i know i screw up this hurt my feelings these things i find funny etc etc the the colin campbell stuff though in the nbc piece from a decade ago um i i can't let go of and to me it shows eras of the internet that story breaks today we never see colin campbell again he's fired fired

so fired so so incredibly fired but it happened back then and like i told you it's it was nerds and if anybody brought it up steve it would be cancel culture yes it's just nerds it was nerds like nerds don't care this dude was he was calling mark savard who he had previously coached a giant fake artist he was uh on more than one occasion emailing complaining about penalties called on his son talking about and and there were some worse ones in there oh this guy's complaining about calls assign him this ref in this ref we'll see how he likes it i'm pretty sure it was on more than one occasion throughout that article that i read of joe's from tyler dello's down now deleted website uh because he works for he previously worked for the oilers i think that's when he

deleted it and now he works for the devils you know so he's intentionally talking he's talking about intentionally sending refs to certain games to fuck with teams telling the head of officiating so-and-so's a giant fake artist telling the head of officiating i don't appreciate the way my son is being officiated that story breaks yesterday march 24th 2021 we never hear of him again and it's a decade later he's still here so that to me is where the problem comes from it comes from the top and tim peele is an enormous scapegoat and the unfortunate individual who oh they of course they do and it's so unfortunate for him that it had to be him there's already name brand recognition the stefan og thing by the way man i forgot about that so what is that

explain the oj thing one more time because this was crazy at the time too yeah you gotta look it up so your uh joe was talking about that basically what happened it burrows he like he like dove in a game or something that oj officiated or basically oj watched a penalty that he called he re-watched it and he thought burrows made a fool of him and there's footage of oj skating up to him before the game and they're having what looks like a decently animated discussion and what burrows alleged after the game is oj is like uh i saw what you did last game you made a fool of me and i'm gonna get you and burrows took like four penalties right it was like three or four penalties they were brutal brutal and by the way the penalty that peel ultimately called

on arvidson the makeup call is stunning it's stunning like it's not if if you're looking for makeup calls right some refs if people talk about all makeup calls they're part of the game they're part of the fabric so you're telling me calls that shit happen every single game on purpose i'm i'm not betting on hockey folks you're not getting my money you're you're not and i'm not talking about me steve individually i'm talking about people with actually deep pockets and hockey's already the one of the most difficult sports to bet on because of just the uh it's so hard it's so difficult to predict because it's so even across the board and there's so much randomness and then these things where you kind of know hey it's gonna you don't know what's gonna

happen each night and like it might be a hot goalie it might be too many penalties you just don't know that's why it's not fun to bet on hockey just with the with games like football you have you have these strategies and these teams and all this history where like okay you can get into this and you can see trends and patterns and people have all this all this um numbers around the games and betting on football and hockey just doesn't have that and eventually they need to get to that point because of the amount of revenue that betting can drive to your sport if they want to make up all this money lost in pandemic that's where it needs to go in the future because that's where sports is going and people are not asking for much like people okay what do you want you

want them to put the whistles away what do you want you want them to call more penalties some people are even saying we'll just call the rule book my request is so much simpler than that do not fabricate calls for game management that the penalty against victor arvidsson was a it's a fabricated call it first of all was not tripping so uh the tripping call it wasn't just bad though if a ref fucks up makes a mistake gosh gee willikers try not to make another one don't then exacerbate the problem by making it worse and calling another one that was nonsense nonsense so how often are refs then so do refs have two modes in the regular season they're looking to make up calls and then in the playoffs they just go on vacation but in person you ever

go on an in-person vacation where you're just doing fuck all at work come on stopping games from getting out of hand that was another argument another bullshit argument that i saw refs are there to make sure games don't get out of hand this was a early second period game on a what days on a tuesday night between the preds and the red wings who are both very shit what are you talking about adam what did you say about the game earlier oh it's a horse shit game anyway no one cares like really it was a nothing game guys i know let's manage loser one and loser two this isn't this isn't uh a case of a like six nothing game that's getting chippy and guys get misconducts that i don't have as much of a

problem with i do because there's a part of me that's like oh kill each other no but you're right you don't want to you don't want to yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but like also i understand and you don't know these are these are assets to the league you don't want people going down because of a six nothing game i get that too right i want to get anything out of hand but like i better never see prop bets on a on a scorecard on a betting card ever again for the nhl like because if it's over under penalty minutes that's a lie like because you might just you might make up a call and there's evidence that you might so just you can't have that ever on the nhl betting card like and if you want a game called a certain way we know from joe's article from a decade ago

with colin campbell it all it takes is an email yeah please call the game this way call more penalties tonight so you're rigging the system yes it's a terrible look and you know it's funny the nba had issues with officiating we there was actually a guy that like went to him donaghy did he did he go to jail i he did fix matches um and then there was like a whole bunch of stuff that came out about the lakers sending in um you know a sizzle reel of kobe bryant fouls that weren't called and then you know kobe bryant started getting every call go his way which was an overcorrection and now nba officials have to post a public here's why i did what i did every game yeah and the reason for that is the integrity of the nba game because of money

matters more than ever because you can bet on NBA games. And I would be interested to see if any of those same partners that get that from the NBA start asking the NHL, hey, where's that? We want to see that.

We want to see that or otherwise we're just going to not. Yeah, there's a report post game. Like if an NBA referee misses a call in the last two minutes of a game, there's a report released by the NBA that says

this referee missed this call in the last two minutes and it should have been a foul here or whatever they miss they that's a official document that's released to the media and the nhl needs that equivalent to hold these referees responsible so they're actually making the right calls the nba will go back and change the score i've i can't believe that i like that was something i i didn't even know they did it uh until i was at a game one day i'm like it's it was between quarters i'm like the score changed what what happened yeah because like if

they if they check like hey his foot was on the line they'll switch a three from a two like from the second quarter you know and what's wrong with that nothing i don't think there's anything wrong with that this has been my contention if you're gonna have replays if you're gonna have these things use them then then then be robotic about it but if you're gonna have nb or if you're gonna have referees just do it and you're gonna be willy-nilly then i guess you're accepting that there's human error it's one or it's the other commit one way fully or commit the other way fully do one chaos or order which whatever one you want but i just want to be able to know what the fuck i'm gonna watch yeah tennis is kind of tennis is in that in between space right now where

they have the technology to um to call every single point just on like a button if it's sitting in front of the umpire he can know if a ball hit the line or it didn't hit the line and they haven't gone fully that way but like they soon will i was listening to a a podcast recently of the founder of reddit he's married to serena williams and he was sitting there watching a tennis match he's like i you guys have it right here this technology where you can just say this ball is in instantaneously and eventually it's going to get to that level i don't understand what the holdup is and you know you know the here's the thing tennis invested in that the nhl has not and will not invest in that it doesn't benefit them because it calls them on their own bullshit they'll tell on themselves so

they're not going to put millions of dollars because the the nhl game is extremely difficult to call i mean you've got four officials for a reason right there's so many fucking rules yeah and and so so i think you know i mean like they've talked about how you can have like a goal line you've got goal line cameras you know when a goal when a puck goes in you could have that on the blue line you could you know for for offsides you could have all that already and then that and then it shuts the play down immediately because somebody's offside you know that that could happen but they're not going to invest in that it's cheaper not to and then then their bullshit's called and i think i think the reality is until um a betting company i think

joe nailed it until a betting company gets pissed off and walks away or here's the other thing that the nhl could face so the betting companies come on board with these teams right and they find no fucking wants to bet yeah what if they what if they try and the money's not there and nobody's there matter yeah oh boy we got a problem we can't even get gamblers yeah there was a new jersey made a billion dollars in a month last uh from legal gambling i think it was in the devils no new jersey like the state oh yeah i think it's the state of new jersey where their revenues are reaching a billion dollars a month from legal gambling a month yeah like it's absurd god so oh my god how canadian do we sound right now thinking of billions a lot of money

that's nothing nothing no i was thinking about that area and i'm like oh wait that's shit all yeah honestly legalized pod legalized gambling just met just regulate it oh keep it going adam what else yeah slippery slope where does this end anyway um there was one more thing uh matt duchesne i thought it was very interesting that he was the only player i saw speak about this There was Jason Demers as well. Tavares talked about it, but he Tavares-ed it. Oh, Tavares did what everyone else did. So for some reason, every coach in the world got asked about it,

and they all handled it like geniuses. DJ Smith, Paul Maurice, Daryl Sutter, they all, in different words, praised officiating, which, no, no, don't shake your head, Adam. These guys are trying to win games. Mm-hmm. That's how you do it. Grease the wheel.

That's how you do it, man. Forget the betterment of the game. Let's just try to win it for the now. Yep. Correct. Correct. That's their job, man. That's their job.

And you're right. You're absolutely right, Steve. No, and I understand the underlying problem there. They don't give a fuck. That's their job. I found it very interesting that Matt Duchesne was the guy because i have heard someone in hockey drop the infamous uh b on him the notorious guy bad guy and what did he say matt duchesne well he's basically like you that can't happen he's right

is absolutely right but that's not the way hockey thinks therefore bad guy so somebody called him a bad guy for that no but he's already got a reputation i'm saying as maybe an outside thinker bad guy now i don't know what else there is to it i didn't it wasn't very in depth um but like dougie hamilton going to a museum oh bad guy gift a team hangout to go to a museum sorry but you're banished to the hurricanes dougie go play with a good team you don't fit in calgary we're gonna be successful and we're sometime we're gonna have a unusual amount of confrontation over post-game pucks in a single season and we're we're four points behind montreal oh oh not good man by the way calgary season hanging by a thread hanging by a thread that is

sorry go ahead on the penalty stuff like is the little things in the game like slashing in front of the net like is are those things ever going to get called out you know when because that's clearly a penalty you know you can cross check a guy in the back as long as he's standing in front of the goalie like those little things about hockey are we ever going to work towards fixing them where the game is just kind of fair i think yes but this this group's got to go the the thing is jesse like people keep dragging this conversation into different areas and every time that happens there are so many more variables so what are we going to crack down across checking in front of the net and slashing and all that no the task at hand is literally don't rig the game

the task at hand is don't and that's what tim peel did and uh i know he's not alone that doesn't make it right but that's literally what he did he rigged the game now nashville won two nothing thank goodness but he called a false penalty on victor arvidsson and put the predators at an intentional disadvantage now maybe he did that because he didn't like the penalty that he called for nashville that they scored on maybe he didn't like that that's it that's an yes where of the fucking thing that is an unintentional mistake was it even a mistake that penalty call was a lot more legitimate than victor arvidsson breathing on the guy guys um my parents are divorced i i took my mom's car she let me use it and i blew it up uh so to to make that right

to make that right i blew up my dad's car too literally like it's just the dumbest it's so dumb this is dumb this is dumb can we move on i'm tired of how dumb this is uh i blew it up yeah yeah i like that i i'm trying to look up like penalty differential uh on the nhl website which i gotta tell you is a lot of fun um oh so they have yeah if i had researched this we could spend more time on it but it's it's all extremely even it's extremely even and that's just not the way it should be that's not the way it should be uh you can't tell me that the last place the last five teams are going to take the same amount of penalties as the top five that's right and i saw someone go like the only player who should be happy about this is connor mcdavid

why is that well he's on a 144 point pace over 82 games and what's amazing about that is it should be more it should be like he should honestly be on like a 200 point pace uh oilers he the oilers could draw a penalty every shift he's out there then the question will be well do you want that and uh no but like there's rules man like i be better like i don't know what to tell you oh so you're okay because we don't want to see the entire game played on the power play you can just do whatever you want to connor mcdavid is what you're telling me right like a child right i'm sorry you're a child that that's that does not that it's not adult thinking oh god it's we're not done with this i don't care if everyone else is done with this i'm not letting this go i'm gonna

be a dog and a bone here let's uh do the press conference the steve dangle press conference so you want let's do lowry first and then adam forgot to do his thing i did i forgot to do research so we're doing that monday yay all right cool no so go to your car research it for four minutes do it the proper way no i want to make sure i get it right i haven't had time it's been a busy week yeah because we teased adam's special history corner uh for this episode and uh adam forgot so we're not doing it now and then uh steve i was gonna do a zoo corner but i don't i don't know if the people want it no well i gotta i got so many tweets like i don't know i was looking forward to your zoo story like you got a lot of your friends are dicks yeah uh yeah it's weird

that they had that perception like what do you think might have caused that i don't know i don't know nothing at all no wait are you giving me zoo corner as a makeup call uh i was going to but we're running out of time so i want to do lowry first and then next episode we'll do history corner and zoo corner oh god i can't wait very interesting i'll get my i'll get my allergy meds ready because we're gonna get up and close and personal with steve the zoo guy hey you know who's a raptor kyle lowry now okay let me ask you this let me ask you this and this has got to be we got to be quick here because we are running out of time like we're super tight uh i know listen i was sad that kyle lowry is going to be traded but this is a 35 year old um and the raptors clearly

got low balled because i don't think the what was the offer it was from the heat wasn't very good and the offer from the Sixers wasn't very good and they ended up trading for someone else. And I don't know why the Lakers were ever in it because they don't have enough pieces to give away. Like, I don't want KCP in a deal for Lowry. That's not going to be worth it. So besides telling the league,

you're not going to lowball me, basically. No. But then do they have to resign him now? Well, they were able to recoup, what was it, a second for Terrence Davis, a second for Matt Thomas, and who did they get from Norman Powell? again gary trent jr gertrand jr and i and uh there was another player there was a guy rodney hood i think it was so they did get they recouped some assets i'm looking at shams uh saying uh victor

oladipo so obviously the silver medal here from miami houston traded victor oladipo to miami for avery bradley kelly olenek and a draft swap and i'm looking at that going like no he were probably like you know kelly olynyk's canadian this would be popular they would i don't i don't want that for kyle lowry like i'm not you're not you're not going to trade him for nothing like that i think miss i did the right thing because like from the heat you want duncan robinson a bunch of picks or tyler here on a bunch of picks or those two guys and then no picks but like if you keep the best player in franchise history for the rest of the season maybe he comes back on like i don't know hometown discount but i think not probably goes

signs with 76ers his actual hometown but like you don't you don't give away lowry for nothing it looks bad on messiah if he does that now i gotta imagine if lowry wanted out he'd be out right now yeah i don't think he does i think i think the thing is is that the raptors are not in the position that say the leafs were in 14 15 when they had to sell veterans because they needed to reset because they sucked the raptors have had a bad year but this is inherently a pretty good team that's not a whole lot different from last year the only difference is they're playing in a hotel in tampa and they don't have their home fan support they're not at home and like you know like it don't don't kid yourself that it's not been a fun season it's depressing as

hell i don't think they're this bad i don't think so either and i think the raptors brass knows they're not so they're not in a fire sale position so why do it yeah uh going into the all-star break they were playing really well they were i think they got up to i think the fifth seed fourth seed in the conference like this was a team that was on a roll and then it fell off a cliff but and you don't want to blame the pandemic on everything that happened but it's also an excuse it's a very legitimate reason for all of their troubles a bunch of them got covid the coaching staff was out for a while for fred said kovid just it destroyed his body for that week and he wouldn't wish it on anybody like it was it's been a terrible experience when you're not in your

hometown you haven't seen anybody from like your neighborhood where you've been living for the past couple years in toronto it's it's it's an excuse that you have to be like okay i understand yeah hunter it affects everybody so yeah um and you know what the reality is they're only 11th they could make it they could still go on a run and make it i don't want to see the rappers in this in the play-in tournament like i don't want to see that because they could uh yeah they're one they're one seat away from getting into that little thing but i don't want to watch that i'd rather they bottomed out or got up to like a sixth seed got a delicious first round draft pick out of it yeah yeah no but it's okay those seconds messiah is going to get the best player

in the draft that's how this works yeah he'll draft them from his blackberry yo forget great forget messiah or sorry forget kyle they got to re-sign messiah still that's a good point yeah he has not been re-signed no he doesn't have a deal for uh next year but as jeff blair likes to say this is a guy that could run for president literally so he's one of those if you meet messiah and i've interviewed him and met him a couple times uh there's a presence about that man that is just different there are some people that are just on a different level and he's humming on a different frequency um so i i would suspect that there's more than just basketball open to masai uchiri and he may want to take advantage of that which

would be really sad yeah but also very good yeah for him and for the fan you're like no i'm sad yeah exactly exactly how anyway you guys if if kyle lowry this offseason how would the two of you feel if he walked away in free agency fine he's done what does he owe us he owes us nothing basketballs well i was about to say yeah but then it opens up the cap space but no if you traded them you'd have that too so i mean realistically this probably isn't the best thing for the organization um but we we too often forget the human aspect of it all and it you know i've brought this up a few times what uh elliot friedman was talking about with the playoff picture uh last week like the canucks should they be sellers probably one of the hottest teams in the

in the league and country right now what message does it send to sell off a bunch of guys with your best player out by the way and you're on a roll and might actually make it what about the blue jackets what about the kings what about like all those teams should maybe try to recoup assets for certain guys it sends a bad message to the team and to the fan base when you're actually competitive and you pull the chute unless it's a situation like the blues where you're like you know the blues a few years ago where they're like we're not good enough we're going to retool and hey look at that we won the stanley cup like two years later or the rangers who announced a rebuild i think uh i think elliot's i think elliot's right in the point that he's making

but it's the wrong view to have you know i think the raptors have a pretty good young players to build around so do the canucks but the canucks are capped the fuck out and they're not going to get better until they start managing that um and yeah okay so they've been good for three weeks who fucking cares the point is the whole season well there's also uh like are you like three weeks the flames were playing like shit come on no not anymore and not anymore let me check yeah they are are they i thought the flames were fifth men no oh am i wrong yes you are well okay in points percentage the flames are above them uh but the canucks have 35 points the flames have 33 canucks have played three more games so that's sort of a big thing that's

a big detail it is a big detail but like get there and the flames uh flames will fuck it up for sure but they have been they have been fucking it up man vancouver come on it the the the points make the standings look a lot closer self-delusion sometimes it's crazy it's crazy coming out of that city it's insane you can still you can manage the group as that's crazy that's crazy if they You can still do all the things people are asking you to do. You can still trade all those players, but you have three weeks to evaluate. And if this run continues, why would they ruin it?

No, you know what? They're going to go 500 the whole way and go, we're hot. We're fucking hot. Look at us. Everything that they do now, if they don't lose 80 games in a row, like they did at the beginning of the season against Montreal, is going to look good.

it's hilarious that they're two points back of that very same team with 86 more games yeah yeah much like 31 games vancouver's 37 oh yeah you got a chance okay sure yeah yeah yeah you're right man calgary i was i was tweeting about it last night if they pull the shoot and they decide they're out of it there's there's some tasty parts i'd like to pick up absolutely big save dave is a leaf let's go i have a feeling the deadline's gonna be dead yep like i mean it's usually sort of dead anyway yeah more like the dud line am i right okay they don't make a the federal government doesn't make a decision that affects the border without someone asking them you know what i mean hey can you make quarantine

a week instead of two like that's that's a fairly large decision and i got to imagine uh someone in canada was in someone in the government's ear about that i wonder if kyle i mean kyle dubas knows the arkells yeah all of the nhl teams and gary batman himself like i'm sure he made that call yeah it was dubious called the arkells who called trudeau who called gary jerry d who called jerry d yeah and he made the decision there you go he hosts the canadian family feud he has that kind of pull he actually probably does yes americans there is a canadian family feud it's good it's good it is good jerry's great i love jerry anyway listen we got to wrap it up but uh we will be back on monday steve zoo corner my history corner and a whole bunch of

well-managed even penalty hockey games in between so excited aren't you there's there's gonna be i think we're in for a week of absolute pants shitting by uh nhl officials doubtful everything's gonna go on the same nothing's changing no refs never take anything personally you're right the steve dangle podcast follow the guys on twitter at steve underscore dangle at adam w y l d e and at jesse blake connection complete