The Steve Dangle Podcast - Mike Augello | August 8, 2017

Episode Date: August 8, 2017

00:00 - Welcome Mike "In Buffalo" Augello 04:00- Mike's Start Calling Into Andy Frost's Radio Show 13:00 - Turning Sports Talk Calls Into a Full Time Gig 18:00 - The Leafs' Tragic History (Sundin & Drafting) 24:00 - Being Accepted in the Industry 30:00 - How Do You Become a Leafs fan in Buffalo 37:00 - Meeting Wendel Clark 39:00 - Analytics vs Eye Test (TIME TO GET MAD TWITTER) 44:00 - Lou Says Ron Hainsey is Morgan Rielly's Defence Partner 48:00 - Martin Marincin is TERRIBLE 56:00 - Why Isn't Connor Brown Signed?? 1:01:00 - What's Up with Antonie Bibeau??? 1:03:00 - The Leafs Prospects / The Marlies Future / Leafs D Sitch 1:15:00 - Will Timothy Liljegren Make the Leafs???? 1:25:00 - What Will Surprise You About This Leafs Season?????? 1:43:00 - Trading JVR or Bozak / Leaf Line Combinations Fun 1:58:00 - Is there Going to Be a Deal Before the Season? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Panago Pizza presents S.C.P. The Steve Dangle Podcast with your hosts, Steve Dangle and Adam Wilde. Well, well, well, it's another day and another podcast and another illustrious guest. Yeah. Please welcome to our show, the one and only, the infamous Mike and Buffalo! Mike, or Mike Augello. Mike, I was about to say, which do you prefer these days? I'm good with both, but, you know, in formal situations, I mean, like, okay, for example, we had the puck talks in June.

When they put out the advertisement, they put out Kevin McGrann, Mike Zeisberger, Steve Dangle, Mike in Buffalo. I mean, I wouldn't mind if it said Mike in Buffalo, a jello, because people know me as Mike in Buffalo, but not just Mike in Buffalo. I'm, you know, I've been writing for Hockey Buzz for nine years, and I'm a member of the PHWA. and you know I'm trying to be both I mean my name I want to be associated with it because my name is on Twitter as Mike and Buffalo but my name is also Mike Agelo so I'm trying to yeah no I get it that's it totally understand I think uh on my book it's going to be Steve Dangle Glynn because if Glynn wasn't there I think my dad would just start weeping he'd be like no I'm still proud of you son it would kill him a little bit inside do you have a vote for the NHL awards I voted

this year for the Masterton it was the first I've only been a member for a year and this was the first time I got a chance to vote so do they let you

do they only let you in slowly like how does that like it's like okay well you're gonna get the shitty award first just to make sure

we can trust you well I'm a member of the international chapter so I think they were limited to the Masterton and I know maybe after a while

I don't know I don't know the exact rules but I know like certain people had other awards to vote for. I mean, I would have loved to have voted for the Calder. Obviously, my choice

would have been Patrick Leineck. No, just kidding. Get out, sir. By the way, the Masterton is not the shitty award. I'm just kidding. Please don't tweet. Don't at me. Everybody, man. Come on. What a silly question, Jesse. Masterton would have been pissed off.

I was just kidding. So, I've actually never heard of that before. What is the international chapter of the PHWA? Not exactly sure. That's cool, man. That's cool. There are chapters in every city, obviously, in Toronto.

Yeah, Toronto, Buffalo. Lance Hornby is the chairman of the Toronto chapter. The international chapter, the chairperson is the head of the PHWA, which now is Mark Spector. I'm going to ask you to get a little bit closer. Here, you know what? I'm going to shock up next to you. No, no, you're cool. You're cool.

I just want to, Mike, I just need you to bring your mic in a little bit closer if that's cool. Just because I want the people to hear you. Yeah, I know, I know. And I want to know about this chapter because it sounds like you guys would, you know, get together and maybe wear rings and maybe drag the stone of shame and the stone of, what is it? The stone of triumph. There are no sacrifices on an altar. There's no bloodletting, nothing of that nature. I'm a little disappointed to be honest.

I think that the international chapter was created for more of an online presence because there's been – and again, I've been a member for less than a year. So I was told that that was the chapter that I had the best chance of getting in. So that's the direction I went, and that's where I am. So, I mean, I have no complaints, and I have all the rights and privileges of anybody else who's in the PHWA. That's cool. That's wicked, man. Yeah, it's really cool. Believe me, from where I've come from, to be a credentialed member of the media, to be a member of the Professional Hockey Writers Association, it's bizarre.

So let's start from the start. Yeah, because I remember listening to you on the radio. So you used to call in when, I guess it was AM640 used to have the Leafs talk. Was it Andy Frost back then? Yeah. It was always Andy Frost. It started in 1998, and I started calling in 1998. And just so for anybody, sorry, just for anybody that's not in the Toronto area,

AM640 was a big AM station. It's sort of not anymore. It's gone off, but it's still there. Yeah, and it's an AM signal, so it goes all the way to Buffalo, like a lot of our FMs do, but AM signals, especially at night, bounce, right? Jeff Merrick used to have a show. Yeah, with Bill Waters, a former assistant GM of the Leafs. So they kind of had that Leafs Talk lunch show before anybody else had it.

Before TSN came along, it was like kind of the fan and mojo or whatever they called it. Well, no, it was AM640. And I called both shows. You did? Yeah. I mean, Leafs Lunch did not come into existence until I think like 2001 or 2002. Jeff would know. But Leaf Talk started in 98.

And like one night, I was just like flipping through the dial looking for the game. Game had just ended and they said Leaf Talk with Andy Frost. I didn't know who Andy Frost was because I listened to Q107, but not Sunday mornings, not psychedelic Sunday. I started listening after it. But they had this call-in show, and I was a call-in guy back to when I was in my – even before my early teens when Scotty Bowman had a call-in show in Buffalo when he was coach. When I was like 12, 13 years old, I was calling in and asking him about, what's this defenseman Mark Ferner? Where is he from? asking him really specific questions about players,

and they're like, what the hell is this kid calling up for? Can you imagine if they did that today? We're going to do an hour with Mike Babcock now. Wow. Yeah. No, but it was an hour a week, and that's 1979, 1980. This is before sports radio. They would have sports shows,

but it was on a station that would have music or news. Oceans of great music and sports talk for one random hour. Yeah, they were always, radio stations back then were a lot more full service. Radio for guys. Didn't exist. Remember all that? Yeah. Well, one of the wannabe Buffalo sports stations called it Sports Talk for Smart People.

Wow. And it was obnoxious. The host is still on in Buffalo. Anyway. Anyway, but there was a show, and Mike Robitaille, who was a Sabres color commentator, Jim Kelly, the late, great Buffalo News sports columnist, and he worked at the Fan 590 for a while. Yes, he did. I got his tea order every day.

Great guy. Absolutely great guy. And a number of different hosts would have a sports show, and I would call in, and it was mostly predominantly Sabres because it was in Buffalo, And I would call in and they'd say, Mike in Chickawaga, which is the suburb of Buffalo that I'm from. No fires, by the way. And that's the Irv Weinstein Channel 7 reference, because everybody I talk to from Toronto,

when I tell them I'm from Buffalo, oh, I remember all the fires on Channel 7. Chickawaga, by the way, is my favorite suburb in Buffalo. It's just the name. It's the best name. Yeah. Sorry, I didn't know the word. And there's a lot of car dealers, for some reason, in Chickawaga. yes there are we get a lot of your commercials yeah i i live a couple blocks from some of them

so so anyway i i call up and they say mike and chick de waga and jim kelly's like okay mike what what question about the leafs do you want to ask because he he knew it was me like i would because i would call up all the time so i started calling in in 1998 calling in the leaf talk with andy frost and you know i called up the first time there's no big deal called up like a couple times after they liked the fact that i was from western new york i had the buffalo accent which i can't hear it's i hear my voice every day and you know i i don't hear a difference between my voice and your your voice is because i've been in toronto so much in my life it just sounds natural but they they want they encouraged me to continue to call because the most of the callers calling

in after the game were basically blasted and like they'd been drinking a 12 pack of labats Yeah, I want to trade Matt Sundin for a bag of pucks. I hate that Swede. This kind of stuff. I was bringing a serious point of view. I mean, I have my own opinions, but it got to the point where it was a regular thing. You're an arable caller, which, I mean, as Jesse and I know, we run calls all afternoon on Kiss. You might get one in ten.

My favorite game to play listening to sports talk callers is, like, guess how many teeth. Especially the ones at night. You can hear that they don't have teeth. Like, I don't know how to describe it. You can hear the air being sucked in through the gaps. Yeah, just talking through the gap in their bottom teeth. Well, I mean, listen, not everybody has a dental plan, and so sometimes it's a little bit easier. Dental privilege.

But, you know, I've heard from sports radio producers in the building, and I won't say which ones, that they hate putting calls on the air. Yeah. Hate it because of that reason. It's not much of a secret. And the great, you know, with Top 40, I'll be honest, sometimes you can take a call, put it into what we have, it's called a Vox Pro. You can edit the call up, make it sound cleaner.

But with sports radio, it has to be live. You know, you might be on a seven second delay, but, you know, all of those ums and ahs and a lot of people call and they have a question, which turns into a statement question. And you're not sure. So a guy like you would be like, thank God we're going to get some good content out of this. It's like a 60-second statement followed by, what do you think? Yeah. Mattson needs a bum and needs to be traded and he stinks and I don't like him.

What do you think? Yeah. Do you remember a particular show where someone called in and said the Leafs need to trade Travis Green for Joe Thornton? No, but that wouldn't be out of the realm of what was usually discussed. There's a great video clip, and I can't find it anymore. If someone can find it, please do. They have Andy Frost on mic, and for whatever reason, they had a camera set up. He's like, well, you know, I don't think it makes sense to trade Travis Green for Sean Thornton.

You know, they got a lot of... And he's like, no, no, no, the other one. Joe Thornton? And he just hangs up the phone. He's like, I can't. Like, that's ridiculous. We could just tweet Andy and ask him. Yeah.

Maybe. I don't know how active he is. No, and I know when they were broadcasting the post-game show on Leafs TV, they changed it from Leaf Talk to After the Horn. Maybe that was it. After the Horn. And the funny thing was, you know, it got to the point where, and this was a toll call back in 1998, 1999.

I mean, it was like I was calling in, and it was costing me like $6 or $7 every time I called. Wow. Oh, wow. So it's like, and I said, guys, can you put me on earlier because it's killing me. I mean, I want to do this, and I enjoy doing it, but this is. You're making demands. I'm surprised they didn't call you. You had guests.

Well, that's what they did. I would call in. I had to get through. And everybody, I swear, if I had a dollar for every time somebody said, oh, they gave you a special number, and you got through. No, I just knew when to call. And I had a phone with a fast redial, and I called and called and called until I got through. So I said, can I call you, and can you just put me on the air instead of me waiting on for 25 minutes? And he says, well, we can't do that, but what we'll do is we got your number, you call in,

we will call you back when we're ready to put you on the air. We'll put you in line when your time comes up. And that was fine. And then they got an 800 number, and then it was no problem. But, you know, back then, it wasn't like you had a cell phone that had free long distance. No, it didn't exist? No, it did not exist. And, you know, it was killing me.

I was like, my phone bill was $200. Back when that was especially bad. Right. Now that's regular. I'm like, yeah. Sounds great. Okay, so you start off and you're calling into these shows. And, you know, you're what we would call a ringer.

So, somebody comes in and actually, you know, pushes the conversation forward, which we want. Right. Then, you know, a few years must pass. When does this start to evolve into more for you? Well, okay. First of all, in 99, and I still to this day don't know how it evolved, but a reporter named Simon Dingley, who I'm friends with for CBC, he got my number from, 640 because the Leafs played the Sabres

in the conference final that year and they wanted a human interest story. Leaf fan in Buffalo, you know, let's come into his house. I was still living at home at that point and they came in and they said, put your Leaf

jersey on, put the Leaf screensaver on your computer, which I didn't even have until they told me do you have a screensaver? You just had to put it in text? It was one of those wobbly It was sort of that leaf That would go up and down It wasn't floating in the aquarium

With all the fish You put the shading on it so it was 3D They zero in They zero in on my license plate With the leaf's frame I looked like a total loser I mean I'm a fan I'm proud of being a fan

But I didn't want Imagine decking out your house In jerseys and trinkets How silly that must look. But, you know, I mean, even at that point, I was aspiring to, like, not be more than just a caller. I wanted to get into the business. Sure. And I didn't want to come off as being super fan.

But that was the way. I mean, I got on the CBC. I got on the CBLT in Toronto. I still have the video to this day. I'm embarrassed as all hell. It would be great if you put that on YouTube. You need to put that on YouTube. I will.

Well, the thing that is on YouTube now, and I can find it, but it shows like how uneducated I was about television and about, you know, I had my, like Leafs TV wanted me to do like a man in the street type of thing. 2007, the Leafs opened the season in Buffalo and they sent me to Pearl Street Brewery, which is right near the arena, which was then I think Marine Midland Arena. Sabres had come off losing in the conference final. you know there was a lot of the sabers gonna win the cup all this stuff leafs come in and they had they they have me put my leaf jersey on walk into pearl street at lunchtime and interview people who are eating lunch and i'm like i don't want to do this but i want you i want to get on leafs tv but i don't want to do this it's so awkward and you're eating people or you're interviewing people who are eating right they don't want to do it right hey you're eating do you want to talk to

me and it's hard to do an interview with a subject that doesn't feel like being interviewed so i got through that it was painful i got through that and i and i you know i i tried to make keep it as light as possible at the end of it you did you did the the last uh you know a little speech and then you hand it back to i think it was brian duff who was doing leafs tv back then at least tv back then and i'm walking with the microphone in one hand and my hand in my pocket in the other one i looked like a total doof and i just you know i just i you know i i was not prepared for i mean i'm you know even though i have dashing good looks i am not i'm not a tv guy my my thing is the radio or being a reporter and i was out of my

comfort zone i'm glad i did it but when i'm getting you know the producers from leafs tv contacting me and saying, we want you to do this on the air. I'm like, okay, this is leading somewhere. And I- Very similar story, actually. I'm just going to say. And the turning point was 2008, well, 2007 was the Muskoka five year. Well, it was one of them.

It was the first year they really seemed out of it because there was 05, 06, they missed by one point right 607 they missed by one point and that team should have actually made the playoffs right and then the following year was oh now where are they going now was i'm struggling was matts's year last year 08 or 07 i thought it was i think it was 07 i think it was 07 well whatever year whatever 708 because it had to be really bad yeah okay well okay the year that jfj is fired they bring in cliff fletcher about three weeks before the deadline and it's it's all starting about, okay, they're going to ask Tucker, Kubina, Caberle, McCabe, Sundin to waive the no-move clause, no-trade clauses, and get something for them.

They were within reasonable distance of getting, they had a chance to get the first pick or at least get in the lottery to get Stamkos. And, of course, Matz blocks the no-trade. He uses his no-trade. Jeff Carter trade. And I remember Bill. Or was that Caberle?

No. No, Matz was the Jeff Carter in a first-round pick. No, that was Cabrillo. Matz was Montreal. Oh. It was Montreal. I thought he was going to Philly. And then after.

That was Cabrillo, yeah. Okay. Jesus. Okay. No, no, no. In the summer, I know in the summer, and remember, they traded his rights to Montreal. That is right. I remember that.

The talk, because I remember the talk at that point was they were going to get Grabowski and one of either Ryan McDonough or another decent player. Pacioretty? Yeah, Pacioretty. Might have been Pacioretty. Don't worry, guys. They would have screwed that up, too. Right, right, right.

They would never have been in. But, you know, Matz didn't sign with the Canadians. He decided to sit out half a year and then sign with Vancouver. Well, going back to the deadline when he didn't waive the no trade, I lost my shit. I was just like, you know, I was calling not only Leaf Talk, I was calling every show that I possibly could just like venting because it pissed me off. It's like they've paid this guy, what, $60 million over the last eight or nine years. All they're asking you to do is pack a suitcase, go play someplace for two months.

If you want to come back and finish your career as a Leaf, be my guest, but you're screwing the organization. Of course, from his point of view, he's not thinking of that way. But one of the shows that I called was Acklin's podcast that he was doing. And he was doing podcasting well before people knew what podcasting was. He was pretty ahead of the curve. Yeah, he really was. And he used a service that allowed for phone calls.

It was this service called TalkShoe. It's still in existence. I still use it. That you can call in and have callers. So I called in and he's like, you're bonkers. I'm like, yeah. I was like, I'm a fan. And I said, yeah.

He says, do you want to write for the site? I'm like, sure. You know, I mean, I can write. I had a BA in history. I almost have a master's in history. I've written term papers. I never wrote about sports, but I have a passion for sports, and I love the history of sports. So if you read some of the stuff that I wrote back in 2009 and 2010, it was a little rough.

But, you know, I got the hang of it. Well, who's not like that, right? Yeah, but, yeah, I mean, that was a turning point. And I've, you know, now, fast forward to now, I've written something every day for the last, like, three years. I just, even during the summer, like right now, I mean, this is the dead zone. Middle of July to the middle of September, there is nothing else. There's arbitration. The World Junior Summer Showcase, we're talking about, you know, Igor Korshkov and the fight at the...

Which we will get to. Which we will. So you're struggling for anything to write about, but I go back and start writing about trades and history. That's why the tweet exchange that we had yesterday about you were pointing out the Henrik Zetterberg. Oh, it's hilarious. So the seventh round in 1999, and I discovered this just by fluke

because I was researching something. The seventh round, 1999, 210th overall, Red Wings get Zetterberg. Next pick is the Leafs. They pick some goalie. he never plays in the NHL. The next pick is Colorado, Radom Vrbata. Wow. So it was Zetterberg who has 1,000 NHL games,

zero, 1,015 NHL games. Wow. And it's like, I mean, it's seventh round. It's the most leaf thing to have. But it's incredibly leafy. I think it was Vladimir Kulikov. It was something like that. Something Kulikov, yeah.

I wouldn't have known it until I saw that. Never heard of him. But I responded with this. It's like, and it's not ancient history. 2012 35th pick in the second round they draft matt finn and every i remember everybody this is a steal this guy you know he should have been a first round pick he slipped the leafs got themselves away and you know no offense to matt finn i mean because people got excited about matt finn because you know he was in a memorial cup and he looked and we're being sold on different

attributes back then we were being told that right they had to get big they had to get strong And that was the prevailing thought was big and strong is the only way to win. And I saw Matt Finn play for the Marlies, and foot speed was definitely a problem. And then he gets thrown into the garbage heap of the Michael Grabner deal. But you look at that draft, 43 picks after Matt Finn, Flyers take Shane Goss to Spear. Seven picks after that, the Blues take Colton Pareko. That's where the Leafs, thankfully under Mark Hunter, the evaluation of talent, at least in the first round, has been really, really good. I mean, it was known as in 2014, but they hit on Nylander.

They hit on Mitch Marner. First pick, I think I could have hit on Austin Matthews. and I think they were very fortunate that Lillia Grin got mono because I think they got the best or maybe the second best defenseman in the draft at 17. But the difference between the Leafs being able to build that collection of players is getting players in the second and third round. That's why a lot of people were hoping that Brocco and Dermott and Nielsen and all these guys, they really come to the forefront.

If you look at the Blackhawks from a few years ago, great, they had Kane, they had Taves, top picks. Boland was a second-round pick. Brandon Saad was a second-round pick. Corey Crawford, who I think was a third. Shaw was a fifth. Keith was a second. So they got contributions from players in the lower rounds, and you won't find that out for maybe a year or two more,

but that's where the Leafs need to go is to get those players from lower rounds to contribute. Teams that have been perennially good for like a decade Sharks draft extremely well Ducks draft extremely well Ducks seem to have like a pipeline of just defensemen Part of the reason why the Wings stink right now is they Contrary to the popular belief, they've drafted like garbage Their Swedish pipeline dried up

Yep, it completely dried up They got some guys, but every team's got some guys But back to your history for just a second So you start writing for Hockey Buzz in 08? uh oh eight oh yeah oh eight oh eight oh nine yeah oh eight oh well it started as sort of like a temporary guy you know guest writer type of thing i would send my writing to ecklund and when he got around to it he would post it and then um the right now howard berger was the writer was a more of a columnist then and we had a guy named alec brownscombe who uh who started maple

leaf hot stove he wanted to start his own website and did and left hockey buzz and ecklund comes to me and says do you want to go full-time as the leaf blogger i'm like sure you know and that you know i was writing maybe two or three times a week it only got to the point where i knew people wanted more they didn't want two or three times a week they wanted every day they want they want to be immersed in information about the leaf so that's when i started writing you know pretty much seven days a week, but like in the last three, three and a half years, I've, I've written every day at all times, sometimes twice a day because things happen. So yeah, then that was my, that was my big break. And, uh, and we started doing webcasts and podcasts a couple of years

ago and we continue to do those, to do those five days a week during, during the, even during the summer. And only recently in the last month or so I started writing for the sporting news, uh, as a contributing writer so i mean yeah i mean pretty great yeah it's it's it's you know i i'm extremely extremely lucky and you know i have to you know i have to be thankful that somebody like andy frost gave me the opportunity to get on the air so much i mean it was it was it was serving for them because they wanted a good caller but they didn't he promoted my calls you know they They would hold me back to the end. Because Mike and Buffalo was coming up.

Right. And I, you know, and I, I mean, I would listen for Mike and Buffalo. Yeah. I had, and he probably won't remember this. I had Ryan Strom contact me through Twitter. I think it was a year after he was drafted and saying, you know, I have to say, I listened to you in the car, you know, me, me, you know, and I, you know, I really, and I'm like, this is a guy who just got drafted in the first round in the NHL draft.

He's an NHL player right now. Right, right. He's an NHL player. Is he going to play with Connor McDavid next year? Yeah. Oh, yeah. He'll be on McDavid's line, yeah. Oh, my God.

Yeah. And, okay, I'm 50 years old. You know, CJ, Chris Johnston, is in his mid-30s. I think he's only a handful of years older than Adam and I are. Right. And just so much more successful. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

Egregiously. And at one of the Puck Talks events, I met his dad. His dad is a great guy. That was really cool. And his dad tells me that him and Chris, when they're driving back from a Leafs game, they're listening to me on 640. And I'm like, Chris is as big in this business as you can get. He's great. And I'm like, you know, this guy was listening to me.

And, you know, this is the one thing I have to be thankful for. The Toronto media have been the most welcoming and the greatest to me because, I mean, they could they could have been very cynical and said, this guy's a fan. He's a pom pom waver. He's going to like it took a little bit of time. They may have been, you know, some people may have been skeptical, but everybody has been either nice or approachable and help me out. and i'm really thankful that uh they they've done that because i think they recognize that i want this as my job for the remainder of my life i worked in a bank for 16 years i tried to become a teacher and believe me i would have done the profession to make money but i'd rather do this the rest of my life because it's fun and i enjoy it well and and i think what we all recognize here is a you know the the egos i think are a little bit smaller in this country because we don't have the star system, you know, everything, the star system, as in like, you know, if you're

in, if you're in England or Australia, they have legitimate stars that are just native to their country. But in Canada, it's like, you're not a star until you make it in the States. And really, really, and truly, there are very few people that are legitimate stars in Canada. Jay and Dan, they were the biggest thing going on. And so they left because that's what you're supposed to do. Exactly. You're supposed to leave the country.

Right. And you look at Drake, like no one would take Drake seriously. if he was just a Canadian rapper, right? But because he's an internationally renowned, hugely successful rapper, people are like, yeah, he's ours, though. But Canadians, we have this thing about, you know, we eat our own, right? Whereas, you know, if you get a little too high, we take you down. Cardinal was doing his thing for like 10 years before,

and then he gets into the States, and everyone's like, oh, it's okay to like him now. Yeah. It's cool. Yeah, no, I was ignoring him when he came out with, you know, Hustlin' and Everyday Rude Boy, but now that he's with Akon, and he's on, you know, Z100 in New York, then it's cool. There aren't many Canadian rappers who are just Canadian, like, only big in Canada, who, like, it was okay to like when I was younger.

Yeah, it's still that way. It's still that way. Chaos, I think, is the only one. Yeah. Yeah. Chaos, but, like, Red One. Like, if you're like me, I like Classified. People will be like, ew, why do you like Classified?

Ew, Classified, yeah. Chalk Clare, Socrates. Socrates grew up five houses down from me. There you go. Anyway, I'm sorry. No, no, no. You've got to remember, my Canadian music is Rush. Yeah.

That's fair. That's fair. And, you know, the thing is, you know, so the reason I would say that the media are a little bit more approachable is because we, and I say we loosely, but we all have to work together, right? And I'm, you know, and that's the thing is that, like, we're all sort of in this together. Yeah. And, yeah, Toronto sports writers, every single one to a person that I've met are great. They've been very helpful.

Yeah, and, you know, I'm not a fan anymore because I am trying to be a professional reporter. But, you know, you can't really separate that. Sure. You're a little more excited when the Leafs win. Right. Underneath the table. Mike has mastered something that I've gotten pretty good at. Not mastered, but gotten really good.

Is if I'm in the press box and the Marlies or Leafs score an amazing goal, I just kind of go, wow. That was really good. Holy shit, right? How did you become a Leafs fan in Buffalo? Okay, my father was a history teacher, wasn't particularly into sports. I have an older brother who was 10 years old when the Leafs won in 67. I was in the crib at that point, so the only thing I was focusing on was sucking my thumb. So, you know, when he was growing up and he played high school hockey,

I was sitting in front of the big console watching Leaf games on CBC. And we had the antenna on the top of the house and had the number list, you know, marked on the little thing that turned the antenna. Yeah, exactly. So we could get CBC or CHCH from Hamilton so I could get games during the week. So, you know, I sort of, you know, I was five, six years old when I started watching. I remember watching the 72 Summit Series, you know, and I was, like I said, I was five. And I watched the early 70s Leafs. When you're young, you don't associate yourself with a team.

You probably associate yourself with players. And I loved Sittler. My brother's favorite player was Normie Ullman. Gilbert Perrault in Buffalo. You think Tereschenko is exciting? Watch film of Gilbert Perrault standing behind the net and then going through all five guys to score a goal. I mean, he did that multiple times. He was a phenomenal player who didn't, I don't think, got as much respect as he deserved.

But, yeah, I became a Leaf fan because my brother was a Leaf fan. And it's funny because he moved away for about 18 months in the late 70s. He was trying to be an air traffic controller. He was living in Utah. And he would call me, like, once every little while to get an update. You know, I was like, well, the Leafs drafted this guy. like during the summer, who they drafted or during the season, how they were playing. And I was giving him, providing him the information because he couldn't get the hockey news out there for some reason.

So that sort of gave me the entree of like being, you know, giving an opinion and giving out information. And I sort of took that, you know, that made me want to go down the road of being either a commentator or, you know, My dream was to be the play-by-play announcer for either the Leafs or the Sabres. But 1988, I go to school for a communications degree. I go to Buffalo State College for a communications degree. And my dream was to be the next Joe Bowen or the next Rick Jenneret. Well, 30 years later, they're still in their jobs. So if I would have gone down that road, I would have been still waiting.

And I sort of got deviated from that path because I was in a communications class in front of 120 people. and they asked me to read something off and I'm like, I was like, I had like a cute stage fright. And I'm like, okay this isn't going to work. So I changed my major to history. I hate reading out loud. Yeah, and the thing is that at Puck Talks, I mean

I had no problem talking in front of people but the lights were down. It was like we were talking to each other. We weren't talking to the hundred people who were out there. We heard them react. I actually, I should probably get over this at some point, but whenever I do Puck Talks Steve, I need you to get a little closer to the mic.

Whenever we do Puck Talks, I intentionally take my glasses off so I can't see anybody. Yeah. Seriously. Yeah, no, that's smart. It helps. That's smart. But, yeah, I mean, in terms of the Leafs, though, I mean, at a certain point, I had to make a decision as a fan, like most fans do. Like, do you root for your hometown team that all your friends root for, or do you root for the team that you really like?

and my turning point with Leafs and Sabres was Scotty Bowman coming to Buffalo. You got to remember, Bowman went to a cup final or won a Stanley Cup with every organization except the Sabres. He got to the finals with St. Louis. He won cups in Montreal. After Buffalo, he went to Pittsburgh, he won.

He went to Detroit and won. He was even an advisor with the Blackhawks and won. He comes to Buffalo, he has complete autonomy and starts trading away a lot of their, you know, Rick Martin, Jim Schoenfeld, all these guys. And in the span of, I think, six years, the team went from a contender down to like a team that couldn't make the playoffs. And I said, screw it, I'm done. And they had a couple of heartbreaking playoff losses that were like game seven of 2013. They lost game seven in, I think, 83 to Boston. In Boston Garden,

brad park scores an overtime winner they lose then the two years later they're leading 5-3 in the third period of game five against quebec and a former saber andre savar no it was brent ashton carter ashton's dad scored the game winner they lose so they lose 6-5 and at that point i'm like screw this team they're gonna break my heart not knowing that you know for the next the savers were so unlikable that you picked the leafs wow not just the 80s leafs like yeah man harold ballard at his absolute worst. Well, the thing that brought me over was Wendell Clark. Wendell Clark is my favorite player.

And I had the opportunity to be in a media scrum with Wendell and it was like, okay, I'm not going to say anything because I'm probably just going to go blah, blah, blah, blah. I met him the year of the full season lockout, 640, Jeff Merrick and- Oh, 506. Oh, 506. Thank you.

They brought a bunch of fans down to watch the AHL affiliate of the Leafs and the Sabres, the Amarills. So the Roadrunners at the time? No, no. I think it was the St. John's Maple Leafs at that point. Oh. Yeah, I think so. And then very shortly after.

No, because the Roadrunners were Edmonton's farm team. Right, but they played here, right? Yes. Right. Okay. So they brought them down and they made this a big event. They had the ice painted blue. I don't know.

I don't know if they were experimenting with it. Yeah, for some reason they had a blue-tinted ice. It was weird. At least it wasn't the puck. That sounds like 90s hockey. Yeah. And they brought a group of fans down to Pearl Street, and Wendell Clark was there. And I brought my Wendell Clark jersey.

You know, I'm the same age as Wendell Clark. That's a thing. But he's a hockey player. He's on Mount Olympus when it came to me because of the way he played. And I just, you know, I mean, I have no problem, like, talking or asking a question to Austin Matthews or, you know, I've bumped into players who I saw play when I was 12 years old, like Mike Foligno, who's a scout. I've seen him at Ricoh, and I have no problem saying hi and how's it going. Wando Clark comes in, I'm an 18-year-old kid, and I'm babbling. I just can't get over it.

And you could not, like, he could not be a more unassuming, easygoing guy. No, he's a great guy. Every time I've met him, I'm like, man, you are just awesome. Now, I know Steve was in the locker room at this point for the Centennial Classic. Yeah. I just wanted to make sure I didn't trip over something and make a complete ass of myself because you walk in this room and, you know. The thing you would have tripped over was my tongue because I was interviewing Felix Potvin.

Yeah. So, I mean, it was Wendell sitting next to Austin Matthews. It was Doug Gilmore sitting next to Mitch Marner. Oh, you went to that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wish I went to that one. Before the old-timers game. Yeah.

And this was the perfect matchup. Ally Afraidy sitting next to Jake Gardner. That was perfect because you talk about, I'd say, talent, superior talent, and lack of hockey IQ. That's the perfect matchup. Unpopular opinion. Yes. But one we often share. Yes.

But I mean, but to be in that, to be in that room with, you know, Tucker and Domi and all these, I mean, it's just like, okay, I'm, I'm just going to, I'll ask a few questions, but I'm just going to like drink this in because it's like, these are all the guys that I root for or had rooted for in the past. And it was just such a cool place to be at that point. I'm glad you did that. I, I, it becomes too much like a movie to me. It's all these people I've seen on TV my entire life and they're all there at once. Like, this isn't randomly, oh, Dave Anderchuk's in line for coffee at the same Tim's. I'm going to go say hi. Like, this isn't, you know, an accidental running into.

This is every, imagine if the main character from every cartoon you ever watched somehow showed up and they were in the same room. I just go, oh, that's Dave Anderchuk. And I just talk to him. Okay, that's done. Oh, here's Brian McCabe. And then when I walk out, I go, okay, okay, that was pretty neat. That was pretty neat. Yeah, I didn't drink it in until after I'm looking at the footage.

I'm like, that's pretty silly. You never do. That's pretty silly. I'm sure it went for both of you. I'm sure it was like a blur. Like you kind of go in and then all of a sudden you're leaving the door like, wow, that all happened. That all just happened. And it's just fast, right?

Yeah. So let's talk about what we have now. Because we, you know, Mike, what I noticed at Puck Talks, it was you and Steve and Scott Wheeler on stage. There is a Your point of view Is not Is not dissimilar to ours But it's also not exactly the same

You have a point of view That is a little bit more of We love the analytical approach We recognize though That it's not the only approach And yours is a little bit more And I hate to say old school But it's a little bit more traditional

In the sense that you're looking at what you're seeing But you're not discounting what the numbers are saying as well. No, there's value in numbers. I just don't think, you cannot be a slave to numbers. I mean, and I'll be brief on this. Going back to my youth, one of the things that made me more of a, having a wide breadth of knowledge about hockey was playing a game called Strat-O-Matic.

And Strat-O-Matic, it was a board game back then. I love it. Yeah, now it's a computer game. And basically what they would do is they would give an offensive, a defensive rating, and a dice roll for a shot. And a guy like Gretzky scoring 92 goals, if you do a roll, everything on the column is a goal or a goalie rating or something like that. But not to get to the particulars of the game, but it took a sort of prehistoric analytical approach. It used shots on goal for offensive rating. It used shooting percentage to determine the quality of the player's shot.

At that point, they used sort of just like eyeballing for, you know, they had representatives in every NHL city and they would do the defensive ratings. But I learned, you know, it was easy to learn about the Sabres because they were in Buffalo or the Leafs because I saw them on TV. You know, I learned about guys like Charlie Simmer and Marcel Dion in Los Angeles or Thomas and Vancouver based on their stats and based on the cards and how we were playing. So I learned, and I still have a respect for analytics, and obviously it's much more advanced today, but I think that the problem is that people get too close-minded on one thing.

I'm trying not to be too close-minded on something other than just what I see, but I think that there are people on the other side that get too close-minded about, okay, it's all in numbers it's not all in the numbers because somebody can have great numbers and be a crap player and i think i've seen too many too many instances of that fair enough yeah yeah well and another thing like of the people who maybe hold more traditional views i like listening to you more because we we debate and talk without it ever being an argument yeah you're never an asshole like you're never just like what that's ridiculous that you believe that well because i Because my point of view when it comes to anything, and I'm not getting into politics, when it comes to politics or when it comes to sports is you can agree to disagree, but I want to hear the other side because I can learn more about it.

Well, and there's a lost art of argument, of the argument, which is you present yours, I present mine, audience makes their call, but it doesn't get personal. Right. And that's the thing that I think we need to get back to is that, you know, it doesn't have to be a character assassination or a hit piece. It's just, I have this viewpoint and here's why. And you have that and here's why. And the other thing about an argument is you don't need to be right at the end of it. Right. I mean, how great would it be if you were wrong and you figured out you were wrong?

And you learned. And you learned. All an argument is, is you're presenting information you know and someone else is presenting the information they know. If you decide at the end of it, you know what? Their information's better. What a great thing. You just learned something. Well, but then you've changed your mind.

You're a flip-flopper at that point, Steve. I don't understand flip-flop shaming. Is that a thing? Yes, that is a thing. Well, I say it's all phooey. How about that? You have no core. You have no belief system if you come off of your...

How dare you learn something? How dare you? I have some views on Santa Claus. I would like to share with you. So, yesterday, or a couple days ago, I guess, Babs and Lula Amorello, Kyle Dubas, they're all at the tournament going on right now. And forgive me, I can't remember what IHFC thing. The World Junior Summer Showcase is the title of the... Right.

So, Babs, they're all being interviewed. And a couple quotes that came out of it that are very, very interesting. I'll get to Luz in a second. But first, Mike Babcock says, we need to find a defensive partner for Morgan Rielly. And it appears Ron Hainsey is the guy. Ah, boy. I mean, I don't know how down with that I am. So is Ron Hainsey the guy that's supposed to let Morgan Rielly be Morgan Rielly?

And that's why he's a steady stay-at-home defense? Because he is average. He's average. Yes. Average. Maybe even slightly below in certain metrics. But does he let Morgan Riley just go and be Morgan Riley and the best Morgan Riley that Morgan Riley can be,

and that's a good thing? Well, I mean, I have yet to see evidence that Mike Babcock is going to allow Morgan Riley to be Morgan Riley. I hope that eventually he will, because he's a plus offensive player. You need to let him carry the puck and create, because I think that will optimize his value as a player. And when I saw Ron Hainsey be signed and they lose Hunwick and they bring in Hainsey, I'm like, okay, that's a good bottom pairing ad.

You know, I know that he played top four minutes in Pittsburgh, but he played it because they didn't have anybody else. It's also worth mentioning that even though the Penguins won, they did get their teeth kicked in, like in terms of shots and all that. Ron Hainsey was a 5'6 with Carolina. They were playing Pesci and Slavin and Falk and Hannafin. Hainsey was on the bottom pairing and killing penalties. So to expect, and right now, I mean, maybe they're saying this because they really have no other choice. They have nobody, you know, if they put Zaitsev with Riley, then who do you put with Gardner?

Well, you go left, right, you put Carrick there. Then you're paying $3 million for a bottom pairing defenseman. I just don't, I don't think the fit's there. first of all he's a left left shot playing right d and i and then and that's something we know that babcock doesn't like but really there's no other there's no option in the system all these young guys uh dermot's a lefty rosen uh uh borgman they're all lefties uh so is andrew nielsen but i i don't think you know so and it's not going to be alexi marchenko playing a top pairing yeah and they have a couple guys who play right but are left right like value of right is one well

The first thing I thought when I saw those pairings was, oh, this is out of order. Because the second I saw it, the Gardner-Zaitsev pairing, I'm like, there's your top pair. And then Riley-Hainsey can be like your quote-unquote shutdown pair, because that's sort of how Riley was used during the playoffs, especially. When you see the minute breakdown, if he sticks with this, Riley's going to be playing 26, 27 minutes a night probably, and Hainsey will probably play. that's the thing maybe they'll sub in

somebody else and Hainsey will play more penalty killing but I would think if they're going to go with this they're going to go with this as a tandem

that they keep together and I don't know I don't want Ron Hainsey playing 26 minutes he's a fine player I have nothing against him I think it was a good signing but I thought it was

a signing to replace Hunwick Hunwick and Hunwick who got the third year in Pittsburgh right which we didn't want

to give Hainsey yeah that's you know I mean Matt Hunwick Matt Hunwick is a fine player He's a bottom-pairing guy.

He grew on me. Yeah, he grew on me. I didn't have a real big problem with him. Let's just say this. I would have rather had Matt Hunwick in the lineup than Martin Marincin. Martin Marincin is here. Yeah, we were talking about this before the show. Did he, like, hurt you?

No, no, no, no. No, and maybe this is a flaw in my character, but I've always, even going back to when I was a caller to Leaf Talk, I've always zeroed in on one player who is so bad that I must destroy him. It used to be Corey Cross, Anders Eriksson, Yurke Lume, Aki Berg. He was terrible, though. Yeah. Marincin is horrific.

He's not a – he's just – I mean, okay, he's for his – But Mike, the numbers. Oh, yeah, the numbers. Well, and see, and this is where I've gotten into arguments with people on social media. And I try to keep things civil. And if it starts going negative, I'll just like, you know, whatever. Just stop. Right.

Yeah. And I'm not going to say the name of the person, but I made an assertion regarding Jake Gardner. And I said that this year was the first year that I could say that Jake Gardner was a complete defenseman. He had a really good year. He was responsible defensively. I think Babcock had a really good effect on him. Very good year. Very, very good year.

Before that, he was a liability. And I said that on social media. And somebody can, oh, you know, talking about- Knuckle dragger. Core C4, PDL. I think I might know who that might be. I did not see this exchange, but I'm assuming I know. It could be like 19,000 people.

I have a feeling. Yeah, we'll share it after. But, you know, he's like, I can't respond to somebody who doesn't think that Jake Gardner is a good defenseman. But you didn't say that. You just shut yourself off. You didn't say that. You just said he was a more complete defenseman, right? And you know what?

Jake Gardner was a liability. I talk about Jake Gardner and Martin Marincin the same way, except Jake Gardner does things that make me forgive him. Yes. Whereas Marincin often does not. But he, okay, I'll just say what I said before the show. He reminds me of me as a defenseman playing Marincin this is Yes, Marincin

Playing defense online in EASHL When you're in a division just above your skill level Yeah, oh, when I'm playing against a computer I'm an offensive defenseman I'm scoring goals, I'm not passing the puck, screw all that When I'm online, I suck So I have no offense whatsoever All I'm doing is poking the puck, poking the puck

And I'm really steady defensively I'll always be back And twice a game, I just go here you go, and give away the puck, and it's a goal. That's Marincin. Solid, dependable, except for when he's not. My comparison is that everybody else on the ice is playing as if they were on Rogers Cable, and Martin Marincin is on a dial-up.

He's that slow. He's that, I mean. But he's got a big wingspan. I think people like that. And, you know, the thing with Martin Marincin, too. So there's a condor. Yeah, there's lots of things. I also think Rogers Cable is really fast.

Everyone should get it. It's reliable. You know what? Mike makes a good point. Rogers products in general are... They are. They're a cut above. They're the Austin Matthews of cable programming.

We should all get a share plan. Share everything plan? Share everything, yes. Yeah. That is all rights reserved, by the way. Yeah, no, I think... I mean, here's the thing with Marincin. What I love about it is that because we're Leaf fans, we're debating the Leafs 7-8 guy.

And he is a 7-8 guy. And the thing was, when he played the year before, the reason he played so much is they didn't have guys that they could sit for that long. He was like a top pair. Yeah, he was a top pair guy because they had nobody else. But the fact that in one year, in one summer, he went from that to, well, we used him as a last resort in the playoffs because we had to. He may or may not even be in the lineup. To me, that sounds just progress. Well, I actually think that Marincin and Marcinko are going to get the Josh Levo treatment this year because they're the locked-in 7-8.

If they carry eight defensemen, they'll carry Marincin and they'll carry Marcinko. But they may never play because, say, Dermott and Carrick are your bottom pairing. If somebody gets hurt, they're going to call up Rosen or Boardman or Dermott or Nielsen. they're going to call them up to play rather than play Marincin and Marchenko and they have the freedom to be able to call these guys up and send them back because they're all waiver exempt

they didn't have that Marchenko? no, Marchenko and Marincin will sit oh, these kids Borgman and Rosen and Dermott all can move back and forth and they don't have to worry about waivers well, that's why I think you're wrong on Marchenko I think they're just going to waive them

they got them because they were in a bind Well, I wrote about this yesterday, and this is the concern I have with the Marlies, because you have to carve out ice time for these players to play regularly to get better. And if you look, and if they send down a Marchenko, that takes away one spot. Right now, they have Hall, Valiev. Borgman, Rosen. Borgman, Rosen. Nielsen. Nielsen, Dermott, and possibly Liljigren.

Yeah, and Leverdi. And Laverde's the HL veteran. So, I mean, you're talking eight defensemen there. I mean, if you send Lilligren to the Marlies, you're going to want him to play 20 minutes a night. You're not going to be sitting him out. And you make room. And you make room.

You play him 20 minutes a night. Right, exactly. You play Borgman and Rosen 20 minutes a night, or as much as you can, because they need to convert from that European Olympic ice surface to the North American. And we know that there's a little bit of a conversion time. A guy like Andreas Janssen, it took him like half a season with the Marlies

before he really started to look like the player that people thought he was because he won the SHL Rookie of the Year. And the second half of the season with the Marlies, he was great, and he was, I think, their best forward in the playoffs. Oh, yeah. Grunstrom was really good, too. Wow, yeah. He didn't need a learning curve.

He didn't have a learning curve. And on the wings, too, because they have a ton of wingers. So managing ice time is going to be a big thing for Sheldon Keefe because I think that they need to give them enough time. And you can't ignore a guy like Nielsen. Nielsen scored 39 points last year. He all in all had a pretty good season. He struggled in the playoffs.

But you want to keep developing that guy. He's got a booming shot. I think he's an NHL defenseman maybe with another year of AHL experience. But you can't ignore him And say okay here comes these three Swedish kids We gotta put them in there No you don't want to lose him Somebody's gonna have to sit

You know so This is such Two years ago We didn't have a surplus problem You know what I mean Guys who's gonna get the ice It would be like who is this player I've never heard of

It was Renat Valiev and Victor Louv And guys that are not there Heading into last year, I was like, Hyman's not really going to make the Leafs, is he? I thought he was good on the Marlies, but he's going to make the team out of camp? Friggin' Matthews-Wayne from day one? Well, we might keep Marner nine games and then send him down. That was less than a year ago. I was one of the people that said, okay, I was scared for him.

I was like, okay, he's got that innate sense of being able to avoid physical confrontation, but will that take place in the NHL? I mean, he got hit once, once, maybe twice. Probably the whole season. The whole season, you know. The one where he got hurt was a fluke. Right, exactly. Kind of trip.

Right, but, you know, I mean, 2012 Calder Cup final, and the Marlies made the Calder Cup final, one of their top defensemen was Simon Gaispers. I don't know if he's alive anymore. Where is Simon Gaispers? Important information to know, though. It is! I think you're being sarcastic, but I'm not.

He's an all-state agent now. He's like Jim the Net Detective Carey. Who runs an insurance company. Dunder Mifflin or something. I'm interested this year for a few reasons. The first thing I wanted to talk about after Hainsey was Connor Brown. I wanted to get your thoughts on it because we've talked about a few different things. But what's been thrown around is that the Leafs are still looking to make a move.

And if you sign Connor Brown, that's 50 contracts. But if you make a one-for-one trade, one plus, and let's say you're trying to make a trade and you need two contracts from the other team, you can accommodate that if Connor Brown is not signed. Right. Right? So is that what's happening? What is Simon Geisberg doing?

He plays for the, he plays in Germany for the Schwinnegan Wild Wings. Schwinnegan Wilds? Schwinnegan. S-C-H-W-E-N-N-I-N-G-E-N Wild Wings And he had 20 points in 52 games Alright I think he's doing well

Sorry I couldn't get past Wild Wings I'm like, okay, no Conversation on hold Sounds delicious, that team Are they barbecue or hot? Their top scorer last year, Will Acton Oh, wow

Wow I remember Will Acton Yeah I think Oilers fans do too Where's Jerry D'Amico? Glad you asked, Mike! Look that up, too! Okay, we're going down a rabbit hole.

Yeah, sorry, sorry, sorry. So, Connor, first of all, I agree with your assessment. Not my assessment, by the way. I agree with what is out there, and I've said it, I've written it, that I think there is an agreement in principle between the Leafs and Connor Brown, That they're just, right now, if they make him contract number 50, then you're going to have, if you want to offer somebody a PTO and you bring them in, then you're being held hostage in a way. Because if you, say they invite Cordy Franzen or Dennis Weidman or some defenseman in there, they want to take a look at him like they did with Henrik Talinder a couple years ago. They bring them in, they like them, they want to sign them, but we're at 50 contracts.

So then, all of a sudden, we want to trade Eric Fair someplace. Oh, well, you need that space. And then the team holds you up for probably a higher draft pick than you would need to. You would need to. So I think that's the reason why they're holding back. I mean, I was in the scrum with Connor Brown and with Lou at the rookie development camp a few weeks ago, and neither one seemed concerned. To me, that means they got something done.

And the fact that Brown was there. Right, but he was working with the kids. Yeah, but sometimes you don't have a contract with the team. Maybe you play hardball, you don't go, sort of thing. I know it's the kids, but it's a business. Yeah, it seems like they would have something done and ready to go. Now, if that's the case, then what are we looking at? And I'm asking for both of you guys.

Is that the big defenseman that everybody was hoping for at the beginning of the summer? Or is that, like, what does a move like that look like? I honestly, I don't know. I've said this for a while. Like, every team has their weaknesses, including Pittsburgh. Like, their defense isn't wicked on paper. Maybe it's better than the Leafs, I guess. But, like, it doesn't jump off the page at you at all.

It's not like Nashville's, for example. And then, friggin', they beat Nashville. Yeah, a guy like Cody Franzen on a PTO makes a lot of sense. It's funny you brought that up because I didn't even think of that factor. they can't even really do that with the promise of yeah you might make our team yeah do you want another brandon press situation where he sits around for two months waiting for a spot to open up i mean yeah i mean if the player doesn't have a problem with it i don't care yeah but i don't see the thing is i don't see a viable situation out there in the league right now except for maybe

colorado and that that's a train wreck and a half right now where they would have the room to do sort of a michael grabner type of four for one five for one deal new jersey doesn't really have New Jersey has like 42 contracts. I think Colorado is under 40. But the thing is... Florida, too. Yeah, Florida, too. But the thing is, I don't know if there's four or five contracts that the Leafs really want to get rid of.

I mean, it's not like a couple years ago where, you know... Carter Verhage and Matt Finn and Taylor Beck and... Well, not in the minors. Certainly not in the minors. And that was the difference. They had all this fat in the minor leagues. But now they got like Eric Fair, Marchenko. But we're talking about guys who make over a million bucks.

So it's a little bit different. Maybe a Tobias Lindbergh, somebody like that. Maybe a Justin Hall, who's on the last year of an entry-level deal. I think the organization likes him. Yeah, I think they like him too. Yeah. They really don't have a—I mean, they have Cass Casuo. I don't think they're going to dump Garrett Sparks after they sign him to a two-year contract.

I think he's a Leafs backup goalie next year. Not this upcoming year, but next year. Well, his groin problem, which is every other day he has a groin problem. The freaking guy could just stay healthy. He should be the least backup this year. Yeah. This year. He had a fantastic year with the Marlies.

He just couldn't stay healthy, and then they had to put Bebo in there, and Bebo, I mean, that game, that St. Patrick's Day massacre at the ACC where Bebo let in seven goals in the third period. One period. One period against a completely shitty Binghamton team, and that was it. That was it. I mean, they only put him in again when they had absolutely no choice after I think they had to pull Cascasuo in the playoffs

and he played against Syracuse in one of the games because they were down big and they put Bebo in. But it was not even a hint that they were going to go after Sparks got hurt, are we going to go with Bebo who's played in the playoffs? No, no, we're going with Cascasuo. Couldn't trust him anymore. What a strange goalie. What a strange goalie.

I wish him well in San Jose. I do too. I have nothing against him, but, I mean, he didn't make any progress. It's here, right? It's definitely in the head. He's got the talent. He has a little bit of a resume of stringing together good games, being decent. His first year in the AHL was his best one.

He's big, he's athletic, and I've seen him be a good goalie. It's just he blows up. And not just has a bit of a stinker of a game. He had a stinker of a game in one period. How do you allow seven goals in one period? Yeah. I think they were up 5-1. They were killing them.

They were killing them. They were killing them. You know, Leipzig was all over the place. I mean, I can't remember the specific, but they were up 5-1, and then boom, boom, boom, boom. It was just, he couldn't stop. He couldn't stop anything. Maybe he'll be better in San Jose. I don't know.

I hope he plays well someplace else, but yeah. Play two games with the Leafs. Look great. Okay. Well, this is great. You know, it's nice to talk about the Leafs again, like really in depth, because it feels like it's been, I feel like I've been going through withdrawal. So this is nice. This is really nice.

Even just listening. Well, it's an interesting part of the summer because we're no longer being like, oh, we'll just see what happens. Now we know decisions are coming in about a month. And is there a move coming? Are they leaving the door open or did they leave the door

open on purpose? And there's a big difference there, right? And I can understand both. Do you think there's a move coming where they shore something up? And I'm not talking about a 5-for-1 Grabner deal. I'm talking about an actual legitimate NHL defenseman, or is it like, hey, you know

what? We're good with what we have. We're going to play to our strengths, which is obviously our offense. Our defense is a year older. We'll get better. What do you think? Well, a few weeks ago, Larry Brooks in the New York Post reported about Bozak, and what was it? It was Corey... No, no, no, no. Nick Holden. Nick Holden. Oh, my God.

Why Nick Holden? Yeah, Nick... Okay. I've been told this by Rangers reporters and Rangers fans, that Nick Holden... I mean, Nick Holden played top four minutes for them he scored a career high i think it was 11 goals he had 34 points he's on a cheap contract he's right-handed all those things if you put them together okay he's a horrific defenseman he's a bottom pairing guy at best and being put i mean they weaned his minutes as the season went along to the point that i think he was maybe a four or five in the

playoffs you know and a guy like brady shea who's a young guy who i think was an all all rookie this He was great. He was great, and he sort of stepped up. But it was like Alain Vigneault's sort of favorite guy, and nobody could understand why because he's basically an average defenseman. And to get that in return for Bozak, who, okay, you can be a critic of Bozak. He scored 55 points last year. He was really good.

Third-line center scored 55 points. Third-line center scored 55 points. Now, we know that Marner was the center of that line in terms of generating the offense. JVR's all right, too. And JVR's all right, too. But Bozak, he was a big contributor. He's a good face-off guy. And the Rangers, I'm sure what's behind this is the Rangers, after losing Stepon, they need help up the middle.

And Bozak sort of clicks all the buttons. But there's nothing there with the Rangers that I think that would help the Leafs. I mean, Nick Holden would be a bottom-pairing guy. And there was something apparently about them having interest in JVR. I'm like, okay, same problem. What are you going to get from them? um to my mind the team and i have no rumors you know no info on this i'm just looking at the way the teams are set up and and what makes sense the team that i think the leafs should or could

deal with is carolina because carol i mean they've signed slavin to a seven-year extension they just signed pesci to a six-year extension both making over four four million bucks uh Falk is making almost $5 million for another three years. They've got Trevor Van Riemsdyk and Noah Hannafin as RFAs next summer. God, that's a pretty good core. What did that happen? And on top of that, they have a top 10 pick in Hayden Fleury and a top 15 pick in Jake Bean, who's going to probably make the world junior team.

So you've got seven defensemen there. You've already signed two of them to link the extensions. Now Hannafin next summer is going to expect to get long-term money, big-time money. And unless you want a Jacob Truba situation where they offer him a bridge deal and he gets pissed off, I think Carolina probably needs to trade one of those defensemen. And the one thing I think keeping Carolina out of the playoffs is they need a bona fide score. They need to add to Stahl and Skinner and Ajo, and they added Justin Williams. But I think they need one more guy, maybe not Bozak, but a JVR with his brother there as a defenseman.

Sure looks good, doesn't it? Yeah, right. And, you know, I'm not saying Hannafin because Hannafin was a top five pick, but it would have to be probably more in that deal. But I would not— Well, evidently, his stock has fallen. Yes. From what I'm reading, it's like, you know, he— Well, it doesn't get much higher than fifth overall.

Yeah, right. But I think that he—I think that maybe they were expecting more from him than what he is—what his skill set would have offered. He was never supposed to be an offensive juggernaut. No. He made the NHL as an 18-year-old. You know, it's like, you can't—I mean, you can't suck if you do that. I mean, you know, you can rush somebody, but they didn't do a Luke Shen and put him on the top pairing and burn him out at age 19 and put all these expectations on him. And who is legitimately the Leafs' best player that year.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think he had 25 points last year, and he wasn't playing top-pairing minutes. He's a big kid. He's got really good skating ability. You know, he's got offensive instincts, but he's not Falk. He's not Goss Despair. He is what he is. But I know that Babcock liked him.

We've all heard the story about Babcock saying that I would rather have drafted him. Draft a man. Right. Wasn't it? So that story is just out there, eh? Yeah. I mean, you see- Heard that months ago and I was like, I don't know.

It could be urban myth. I don't know. I have no way of verifying it. But I mean, I heard that- Well, you and I heard it from different people. Right. So I think it's true. Yeah.

So, and we know there was proof, there was video proof. If you look at, I think it was the Blue Jackets, they did the sort of like on-the-draft-floor type of thing. Oh, that's right. Yeah, where Yarmul Kekulainen gets a call from either Dubas or Hunter, and the Leafs were at four, and the Leafs offered to trade down to eight, where they took Wierenski, if Columbus gave them, I think, their three second-round picks. Because Columbus supposedly won, and Kekulainen didn't laugh it off. He thought about it for a second and then decided to, you know, stick where he did.

And, you know, he got Wierenski. But, okay, I mean, if they wanted Hannafin, if Hannafin was the guy, that was probably the price they were going to have to pay to move up to four. They never did it. But, I mean, I think the Leafs would have probably been happy if Hannafin had slipped to eight or maybe Marner slips to eight because there were the questions of his size. I mean, it's all interesting. Or maybe they draft Wierenski.

Or draft Wierenski. So, I mean. Yeah. It's a whole lot of what ifs. Yeah. Well, and I look at the team as it stands right now, and that's why I keep asking about is this supposed deal, is this something that they're working on, or is it something that they've just opened the door to?

Because here's the quote that I thought and I enjoyed from Lou Lamorello, and there's very few quotes from Lou Lamorello that really mean something. But what he, because he just talks. He talks around, and he's brilliant at it, and I love watching it. but Lou said we got a lot of prospects in almost no room he did say that

I'm paraphrasing but he did say there's no room for him he said so it's going to be a really interesting camp to see who makes it and who doesn't

and it's like Hunger Games a little bit which is good you want that you want some competitiveness you want people to really earn their spot but at the same time

that tells me I see three things the Leafs can do three scenarios one is they make some sort of trade like that with Carolina where you know

You can always trade a player on your roster for a player on someone else's roster. That's always a factor. Number two is they just hope and pray they lose a guy like Fair or Marchenko to waivers, which you hope and pray, and you're not going to know until literally the season begins. Right. Option three, and I want to see how long they stick to their guns on this. You've got to give up a pick or something. You've got to give up a pick or a prospect.

And is that the worst thing right now, given how much depth? How much would you really need to give up to give a crap team Eric Fair and, like, what, a fifth, a fourth, the fourth that you got along with Fair? It's Vegas. I mean, if you remember, when the trade was made, everybody thought they got Fair to, you know, it was that 70-40. 70-40, yeah. Yeah, but it was also, he was drafted in the first round by George McPhee. and like, okay, maybe this is a guy that we can trade to, maybe he wants to bring some veterans in there

and not get walked over in their first season. But then they pick Leipzig and nothing happens. And now you've got Eric Ferrer on a $2 million contract and I don't see a role for him. I mean, he might be the 13th forward. On Toronto or Vegas? On Toronto. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, he might be the, you know, they could send him down to the Marlies And I think now with the minimum contract going up to, I think, $650,000, they would save like $1.025 million on the cap if they send them down to the minors. But they're more interested not in cap room, but contracts. So I think they would have to throw in a draft pick to move out of fair. They would have to throw in a big draft pick for somebody to take Joffrey Lupo's contract. Right. And I don't think they really want to do that because they want that extra cap space. I know that there's the consideration about the whole bonus situation because right now they're getting, I think it's a little over $5 million in bonuses from Matthews and Marner and all the other rookies.

And it's probably going to be the same next year if they hit all their numbers. So, you know, if they could clear the cap space on Lupo without giving up a first-round pick, maybe they would do it. But, you know, I don't see anybody with five and a quarter million dollars willing to take Lupo off their hands for anything less than a really good prospect or a draft pick. But you can find somebody who might take Marchenko. You can find somebody who might take Fair. Yeah, of course. Well, and I also wonder, is Vegas really going to go into the season with 11 NHL defensemen? No, but they, I mean, they could very easily trade off one or two of them.

I mean, they're going to trade a bunch of players before the deadline. You know it's going to be rental city. They've got like three non-Clarkson or Grabowski guys signed past this year. Yeah. It's ridiculous. And it's like we said a few months ago. You know, should Vegas look at Eric Farrer and a pick? They don't have to.

Right. Because at the end of the day, it might end up being Brendan Leipzig, Eric Farrer, and a pick. They could get three assets from the Leafs. Right. Because, ha-ha, we're an expansion team. Eat it. But to your Lamorello point, when I asked him a question about the status of the Leafs defense at the development camp, he said, we are satisfied today and I'll let you know later on when training camp has ended. So he didn't really answer it. He's like, okay, so, you know, are they waiting for Roman Polak to find out whether, you know, he's going to be up to speed? I mean, I don't know. I mean, that's, you know, Babcock liked him. Waiting to see if Roman Polak is up to slow.

Yeah, but you know he was liked in the locker room. You know Babcock likes him. You know he was trusted. They elevated him during the playoffs because he was a more veteran guy. I mean, Conor Carrick's ice time dropped. Polak's went up. Precipitously. Precipitously, yeah.

I think Carrick is a pretty interesting factor. Because, like, Hainsey will get those top four minutes consistently if Carrick doesn't take a step forward. If he does And if you follow him On Instagram Holy crap Is he working out?

Oh my god Connor Carrick makes me feel Like a lazy piece of shit He's Good He's a grunk He's been working out With Dickie Kloon

That's how professional Athletes should make you feel Yes Yeah That's what you want to see Yeah Do you see the other day When Kadri was doing

Half squats And everyone's like Those aren't proper Squats Your range Your range of motion Is brutal dog Okay

All of you Fake fitness trainers On Instagram Sit the fuck down You definitely know more than the guy making four and a half You scored 30 goals Who's surrounded by professional trainers, nutritionists, and doctors all the time Yeah, no, no, trust me

Tell Nazem What do you mean there's more than one kind of squat? Nazem, you need to eat more quinoa Yeah, oh my god It's quinoa, Mike Sorry Oh, I hate it I hate it so much

It's okay, Steve's gonna leave for a second I want to talk about Lilligrant because to me and I defended my point online, I've defended my point on this show to me, Lilligren stays because you want him in, not only is he

good enough as it is but we don't know what Rogel's going to be as we know there's no trades in the SHL there are transfer agreements but there's no trades and if you can have him acclimatized to the city around the video coaching, because we know that the

Marlies have, I mean, Justin Bourne, who just went to the Athletic, was the video coach for the Marlies, right? We know there's video coaches, we know there's nutritionists, we know there's the right trainers, Barb Underhill, all of that is available to him here. Right. Does that not make it a more stable environment than the wild card, which is

Rogel, which is part of the reason you know, obviously Mono played into it, but let's not forget that he was on like five different teams last year. Yeah, I asked Mark Hunter at the draft about that, and he says, I'm assuming you're looking for a more stable situation for Lilligren going forward. And he says, yeah, I mean, we're comfortable that that would be the case in the SHL,

but, you know, and then he didn't go any further. But I think that they want to have some hands-on control of him. He's an important asset for this team. I mean, a right-shot defenseman with the mobility that he has. And, I mean, you could see Babcock and Lamorello looking at each other at the, If you saw the coverage, looking at each other when Lilligren's skating around, I was like, wow, this guy's pretty good. I mean, you know, I can't read lips or anything.

But, you know, Lammarola said at the development camp, Sweden or the Marlies. I think he said that on purpose. Based on the way he looked there, based on the way he looked at the summer showcase, I don't think they're putting any limitations on him. I don't think, you know, it's not likely that he makes the Leafs as an 18-year-old. But I don't think that they're ruling out the possibility. He goes to training camp, and he looks pretty good. I think there's a decent chance that he could make the lead.

Because think of it. He's a right-hand shot defenseman. Is that not too much too soon? It might be, but I think they'll be careful, and they'll be very conscious of that. But already, we've seen them throw rookies if they think they can handle it into the fire. And this is, you've got to remember, this guy was ranked as the top European prospect from NHL Central Scouting going at this time last year. The mono ruined him.

He couldn't go to the World Junior. He wants to go to the World Junior badly this year. And I think even if he plays, you know, if he plays with Rogel, he'll definitely go. If he plays with the Marlies, they may play that cat and mouse game like they did with Nylander and Kapanen, but they'll eventually let him go because I think he wants to. And it's down the road in Buffalo. But if he makes the Leafs, probably not. So they're not going to rush him.

They're not going to push him. But I think that there's enough there, and he's got that kind of level of talent that if he surprises them, it's not out of the realm of possibility. I agree. What Mike just said, and you might want to dismiss, is Mike said, listen, if he's good enough at a camp, he may just make the team.

This is Lilligren. Yeah. You're talking about. See? I didn't miss anything. I wonder with Lilligren, too. He is going to miss the start of the SHL season. We already know that. So if he's already here, and they can make room for him,

and they're weak up the right side as it is, the Marlies are even weak up the right side. They have Rosen, Borgman. Those guys are all lefty. Andrew Nielsen's a lefty, is he not? Yes. Justin Hall's their only real right-hander. And Liberty's a righty.

but but this there's a little insurance but here's but here's the concern if if if what i just said sort of plays out okay who do you play him with riley is primary i mean he's he's improved dramatically defensively but he's primarily an offensive defenseman he's a puck rusher um you know i i think he's more than that but i you know defense is not the strong suit of his game he's definitely definitely a plus offensive player jake gardner is jake gardner riley's getting strong there's been some really interesting stuff written about riley yeah i mean i i think i i think what babcock has done with riley has been good for him in terms of rounding out his game he's more of a two-way player than i ever thought he was going to be and i think he's getting to the

point now where you know he fits in that 25 26 27 minute a night situation because he can play defensively he can clear people in front of the net but deceptive strength deceptive really you You wouldn't think of him as a strong guy, but he is. He's thick. He's with two Cs. But ideally, if they think Liljegren is ready to play in the NHL, they would more than likely want to pair him with a veteran defenseman who could cover up.

Ron Hainsey? Ron Hainsey. Left-handed shot, Ron Hainsey? Yes, yes. Exactly. But does he really leap front a guy like Travis Dermott? At 18 I mean is he that good

And I guess they'll find out What a wicked problem And you know what it would be really nice if Connor Carrick took a step forward And could play with Morgan Riley Because to me if he takes a step forward Then he lets Morgan Riley be Morgan Riley Well and this is the really interesting thing Because the Leafs are in a really sticky cap situation

Let's say Lilligren does make the team And he's awesome Now you're looking at more bonuses Dermott is 863 something odd thousand. No bonuses. Not a single bonus. If he makes the team, wicked.

Now, if Lilligren deserves to make the team, he'll make the team better. You worry about the cap situation later. Who cares? I think it might have to do with last year they got a real good lesson in the hype train. The Toronto hype train. You couldn't possibly draft a guy

at 17, no matter what the hype is, and go yep, and he's going to make the team. He's going to make the team out of camp. They are purposely keeping the expectations low. Lou made sure at the development camp it was Marlies or Sweden. There was not even one peep of the Leafs, and I think that was done on purpose. And maybe that's exactly what he's saying. It's going to be the Marlies, he's not going to play here, or it's going to be Rogel.

But they could, and there could be a sort of a playing down the middle situation like they did with Nylander. Let him go to Rogel until the world junior. Then let him play in the World Junior, and then in January, you bring him to the Marlies. Once injuries pile up, you invite him over. Right. So, I mean, they have flexibility to do a number of things, but I'm just saying they were salivating over the talent of this kid at the development camp, and they were effusive in their praise of him. And I see it. I mean, he can really skate.

He's got that innate sense. He's got that vision on the ice. But defensively, he probably needs work, and he needs to get stronger. And I think that will happen more and quicker if he plays with the Marlies than it would be in Sweden. But like I said, I don't discount the possibility that he could open eyes. He is 18, and I understand him wanting to be close to home at 18. I get that.

A lot of people just accept when Lou Lamorello says something like he's either going to play in Sweden or with the Marlies. But immediately I'm like if he plays with the Marlies That means he might play for the Leafs Yes What if three guys get hurt What if one guy gets hurt That's all it takes

You can call him up whenever the hell you want What if one guy sucks Yeah and what I like about it is that If he is playing with the Marlies Leafs are a top down team now If he's playing with the Marlies That means he's playing the Leafs system And I like that

Yes And that's where I kind of think okay, well, he's learning what the expectations at the next level will be. So even if he plays three months with the Marlies, he at least will know whether or not he's able to deliver on those expectations will be a different story. He at least will know here are the parameters, here are the expectations. We expect you to be here at this time and here at this time.

And I'm not talking about showing up for practice on time. I'm talking about where you are positioned on the ice, what we want from you in terms of offensive, defensive, everything. He's going to be playing Leafs system. I'll send you to the Zach Hyman school of being everyone's favorite. Yeah. Well, and Sheldon Keefe is the coach, right? And Sheldon Keefe's a great coach.

And how many times will Sheldon Keefe be asked, if Lily Grin is here, do you think he's ready for the NHL? No. That will be his number one. It'll be every scrum. And you'll see the flame in the corner of his eye just boiling up. Because, I mean, you get that question asked constantly. And what can you say? It's just like, look at him on the ice, watch his progress.

They're not going to rush him. He is 18. You know, I think that they're going to take the patient approach, but there is a depth of talent there that, I mean, I think he's the, I mean, he will clearly be the most talented defenseman on the Marlies next year. Wow. Ahead of Dermott, eh? Well, I think Dermott's on the bottom pairing with the Leafs.

I think it's going to be Dermott and Carrick. And the only concern I have with that pairing is they're a little small. I mean, they're both very mobile. And Carrick is a feisty player. I mean, he's 5'10 and 190 pounds before all the getting jacked up here. Yeah. He's another guy. He's doing it for likes on the ground, bro.

And he's such a prick. Oh, he's our prick, though. I love it. He's a total asshole to play against. He doesn't shy away. I mean, there is room in the NHL now for that smaller defenseman. Torrey Krug has proven that. You had Brandstrom, the kid who was drafted by Vegas.

I mean, he was as impressive as Lilligren at this summer showcase. So, you know, I think that there is room in the game for smaller defensemen, but you have, I mean, Dermott's not big. I think he's 5'11". He's not a shrimp. He's not a shrimp, but he's not going to overwhelm you. Right, and to have both of them together, that might cause some problems matchup-wise,

But, you know, I mean That is Babcock's problem And that's why he makes the big bucks And that's another reason why I think that Riley-Hainsey thing That's There's no way that's your top pair Your top pair is Gardner-Zaitsev Yeah, and that's okay

It's okay that your best defenseman might be on your second pair I do think Morgan Riley's their best defenseman Sometimes you can do that That's okay I wonder too We're going into camp this year Obviously we've talked a lot about Lilligren But there are other guys

Dermot, Bracco, among them Who do you think, and both of you Question for both of you, who do you think Is going to be a guy that people We're going into camp talking about Lilligren Who are we going to come out of camp talking about? Hmm That is pretty interesting

Um It's, you know what's an interesting Little factor that no one Is really thinking all that much about What if McElhinney totally sucks That's not a big Stretch in my eyes Not a big deal though

They send him down and they bring Garrett Sparks up Right But then that is it That's your bed That you've made I suppose you can call McElhinney back up Unless he gets swiped Now you've got Sparks and no one

So that's pretty interesting But that's also a big if McElhinney's Over his career he hasn't been great But he hasn't been Absolutely brutal But when he's had to play in Columbus two years where Bobrovsky went down in November with either a groin or a knee injury and McElhinney had to play, I think, more than 30 games, save percentage was like 9-10, 9-0-5, you know, in that area. He had under 500 records both times.

One year Columbus made the playoffs, one year they missed. So, you know, you're praying to God. You're putting Freddie Anderson in bubble wrap and hoping that he can play 65 games. Because if McElhaney has to play, you know, if you lose your No. 1 goaltender for the season, your season's over. Any NHL team, that's the reality. It's whether you can survive that four to six weeks, whether the knee injury, the groin injury,

if you can go 500 or a little above 500, then you, you know. And that's the concern I have. They got McElhaney for, I think it was 850, which is under, you know, they could bury him in the minors if they needed to. But look at all the backup goaltenders who I think were better goalies. You know, it wasn't going to be Bernier, but Bernier got, you know, 2.75 with Colorado. But Anders Nielsen with Vancouver. Condon.

Condon. And apparently they were trying to get Condon. There were reports that the Leafs were trying to bring him here because he was basically the No. 1 goalie for half the year with the Sens. But I don't know. I think they go on the market if McElhinney sucks. I think it's a Jonas Enroth situation. I think, like, let's say Freddie's out six weeks. It's McElhinney and Sparks splitting duty, I think.

If you look at the contract that Sparks got, kind of made me feel like the plan is for him to be the backup two years from now. Full time. I think Kazimir Kaskasuo may have something to say about that. He may. I was very impressed with him in the playoffs last year. I mean, he comes in. Better than I thought, yeah.

Now, he didn't have great numbers in the ECHL, but when he came up to the AHL, he played really well. He might be one of these guys where the ECHL, he just couldn't handle it. Or it was just boring. Goal-tending statistics also are a little weird in the E and that sort of thing too, right? Like with the OHL too. their lower while junior is just it's just it's just a wild not a great place to uh we were were we together the other day and we were watching we were watching highlights from

some game i don't remember what it was and i just blurt out you know everyone's quiet i just blurt out i go junior goalies suck yeah the uh the olympic trials or yeah oh yeah yeah like and of course they're elite athletes and they're playing against their peers and it's about how you stack up next to your peers. But it's funny how in the NHL, goaltending is so like it seems to be so far ahead of

offense that it's like killing the sport and we need to make the nets bigger and pads smaller and all that. Holy shit, if you go down to junior, they stink! It's going to be very interesting to watch the Olympics in Pyeongchang and see Ben Scrivens versus Joseph Wall in goal. Because I think

there's a possibility of that happening. Because Scrivens could be the goaltender for Canada because he's playing in the KHL, and the U.S. are going to go with a lot of NCAA guys. Yeah. Who's the best Canadian goalie not on an NHL contract? Carter Hutton. He's probably up there. Carter.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Where is he? He was a backup in St. Louis, but he's unsigned. Right. Wow. So, but to your question, who's the surprise? Yeah, who's the guy?

Because you guys got stuck on Curtis Magdalene. I'm like, okay, last guy on the list that anybody wants to hear about. Well, rather than, you know... Can we just talk positively? This is so you, Steve. Okay, is it just me positive? Here's where we... Always positive about the Leafs?

Jesse, am I right? Here's where it's going to go wrong. Yeah. It's like, it's worst case scenario with Steve Dangle. All right, there are fucking YouTube comments actually. I'm either way too positive about the Leafs, or, you know, they're just a bum. Oh my God. One of those pom-poms?

Yeah. But your surprise was literally, hey, here's what's going to go wrong. What if McElhinney's back? The surprise would be like, it'll get fucked. Everybody get fucked. They're folding the team. Sorry. We're moving to Hamilton.

Seattle. I think the surprise will be two things. I think Travis Dermott will surprise a lot of people because he was kind of hidden in all the Timothy Lilligren hype. And also, I'm going to go with the physical step forward that some players took. But Marner's looking grunt. I liked that whole thing last year where his mission was to get up to 170. And he still didn't. He couldn't even get up to 170.

I'm like, buddy, gaining weight's your problem? I need some of Mitch Marner's genes. Yeah, he can have any of mine. Holy smoke, yeah. It'd be great if you could just transfer weight to someone. At Rookie Development Camp last year in Niagara Falls, he says, yeah, my goal is 170. Then in the opening of training camp, he says, my goal is to be the strongest guy that I possibly can be.

So all of a sudden, the number. The number doesn't matter. He probably got to like 165 and probably realized he just couldn't drink any more protein shakes or whatever. Consuming 9,000 calories a day. The number, I believe, is 168. And what concerned me was the season hadn't even begun. I'm like, oh, he's going to lose weight during the season. So when you were seeing Mitch Marner dangle people,

Hit people He's probably Flying around At a buck sixty five Buck sixty Holy shit But like I don't know

Just a couple Instagram things I've seen You know He looks like He's at very least One seventy Connor Carrick

Looks pretty gronked You know Kadri's doing His friggin Cat leaps up on boxes I mean He's a little different Because he's older

And he also Doesn't have the range Of motion Oh you're right If you ask Instagram Lack of flexibility Is going to be a big story The thing about Nazem

Is he's just never in shape Get out of here Dallas Aikens Mike same thing I think the surprise And there's a lot of what ifs here If a JVR deal goes down What does that look like

Well We'll get to that in a second But if a JVR deal goes down I'm not sure A guy like Levo steps in I think a guy like Janssen Steps in He scored 20 goals in the AHL

In his first year He won SHL Rookie of the Year Didn't he score those 20 goals In the last 35-40 games too? He had a real slow start One because of the Sweden thing But he also Basically missed last summer

Because of a catastrophic concussion Oh yeah, he got nailed By an Albany First or second, by an Albany defenseman He just got knocked silly Dodgen? No, it wasn't Dodgen. Yeah, I could find it.

Trying to remember his name. He was suspended for 10 games in the playoffs, and deservedly so. Well, that's two games. Yeah, so 20 games. NHL rules. So assume that they trade JVR. Okay. You look at the left wing contingent right now.

I mean, Marleau would be your No. 1 offensive left winger. Komarov is more of a checker. Hyman is more of a checker. They may keep Hyman with the Matthews line. You need a second offensive left winger, and it's either Levo or Janssen. And I think it could be Levo, but he scored 10 points in 13 games. I think he's got the size and the talent to do it, but there's something about Janssen.

I think he has that speed, and he's not big, but I think he has NHL ability, and I think he took that step last year late in the season And in the playoffs, it wasn't dominant, but it was really, really good. And I can just see putting him with a guy like a Bozak or with Matthews that he could really score. Dynamic offensive players. Yes. Not Kapanen?

I was about to ask him about that. So you have Kapanen, I assume, slotted fourth line right. I have Kapanen with the Marlies. What? Okay. And not because he's not. They're NHL ready, but they have so many wingers, I don't know how they make it work. I mean, right now, if they don't make any trades and they go to camp with the team as it is right now,

Matt Martin is going to be in the lineup. I know people don't like him, but Matt Martin is going to be in the lineup. But the question is, will he be in the lineup as a fourth-line left winger or a fourth-line right winger? He could move, or Hyman could move to the right side if they took him off of Matthew's line. but you've got JVR, Marleau, Komaroff, Hyman, Levo. They're all left-wingers. And on the right side, you know, Marner, Nylander, Brown. The fourth line, I don't think it's beneficial to Kapanen to play nine minutes.

And we know how Babcock uses his fourth line. It's going to be nine, ten minutes. You know, play him Play him down with the Marlies Play him 15, 16 minutes a night Play him on the power play, give him all the opportunity So when someone inevitably does go down I mean, I would expect Patrick Marleau

Is gonna, you know, at some point Need to even just take a rest He hasn't missed a game His Ironman streak is longer than Kessel's Wow So maybe not, okay, I would expect that he doesn't In sports where somebody gets injured I mean, that interview you were talking about

where you had your hand in your pocket, that's when Marlowe's Ironman streak started. Wow. Time ago, man. And this is minutiae, but the interesting thing for what the Leafs will do is will they go 13 forwards, 8 defensemen, 2 goalies like they did last year, or will they go 14 forwards, 7 defensemen, and 2 goalies because of the factor where they can call up and send back down.

I mean, they clearly do not want to lose Levo on waivers. They kept him up all last season. They protected him in the expansion draft. They clearly know that he has value either in a trade or to be a guy who could step in. But there are other forwards that, you know, it's a question of who you want as a 14th forward, or do you value Marincin or Marchenko more? I would imagine, purely for cap reasons, you bury Marchenko. So you bury fair, you keep very cheap Sashnikov, very cheap Levo,

and cheaper than Marchenko and better than Marchenko-Marincin. But this is the thing with Sashnikov. He didn't play the last part of last year. He didn't play at all in the Calder Cup playoffs when they did that clear day roster thing where they sent him down and called him back up. So he hasn't played since, what, February? So it's probably worthwhile. Right, but he's waiver-exempt still.

I think you have to send him to the Marlies. You have to let him play. You cannot have him be your 14th forward and sit in the press box. I love this. You'd rather have a guy like Eric Fair, even though he's a $2 million cap hit, or a guy like Levo who's making like $612,000 or whatever. Nothing. Have them be your 13th or 14th forward and sit up there.

I mean, it sucks for Levo because I feel for him because I think he's got talent. I think if he goes someplace else and he plays a top-nine role, he could score 15 to 20 goals. He's just in a situation here where if injuries happen, like he stepped in last year, and he was great. He really was. He was great. But for him, it's like a Frankie Corrado situation, but I actually think Levo is a much better NHL-er than Corrado. Yeah, I think Corrado, when he played, it was very clear that he wasn't good enough. At least to my mind

Well and we talked about reasons for that His first game was against the Penguins It was like you know Who cares trial by fire Why don't you put him in against Gretzky and the Oilers You know how when we talk about drafting poorly And developing poorly Is there anyone who would argue that

Frank Corrado has had an excellent development No no I don't think there is Come on come the hell on Isn't this the kind of depth That wins championships Isn't this the kind of depth where you're like, as much as it sucks that Josh Levo played 10 games last year, if you're saying we can sit a guy, we can confidently sit a guy

who is capable of scoring 15 to 20 goals at his top-end scoring, right? If Josh Levo were playing this season with the Leafs, I would expect at least 12 goals. If you can sit a guy like that, confidently, that's good, right? Well, I keep going back to, and yes, absolutely, but they played Levo on the power play even when they like

sort of barely even trusted him to put him in the lineup because he's a killer shot Soshnikov killed penalties and was occasionally on the power play yeah

Kapanen's both yeah but yes this is I'm not saying the Leafs are going to win a cup I'm not saying the Leafs are better than the Penguins

but this is vaguely what a championship team looks like you know it's not perfect no

it's not perfect backup is a question mark you'd like their defense to be a little bit better but couple really good though but cup winning teams also manage their assets to the point where if you have a glut that you use that to address the areas of need and that's been my my point with the with the leafs you can put ron hainsey on your top pairing doesn't mean it's a good move i mean he may he may be adequate in that position and it's a good stop gap but it's really because they couldn't make something work during the

offseason to get a chris tannev or uh travis hammock or travis i mean travis i mean you know you know that jvr is on the block because everybody i mean it was at the draft everybody was saying jvr was offered in a hammock deal and uh you know they went the other direction they went the other direction and took three draft picks which is is a commentary on the islanders and the fact that you know they're supposedly trying to keep john tavarez and they have a chance to get a winger who could play with John Tavares and probably score 40 goals if he was on Tavares' line. And instead, they go out and they get Eberle, who he played in the World Junior with. So I get that. That was a move. But they got rid of all this salary. They traded a first

round pick to get Gorovsky's money off. And then what they do is they trade one of their best defensemen. So it's like one step forward, one step back. And they didn't make the move. And that's why Tavares is still out there right now. And Tavares could go the way of Stamkos and wait until the last minute to either sign with them or go someplace else and do you want to get into that conversation

because Montreal goes on oh god well Montreal to me that's his likely winning spot oh god it's not the leech

please no please no but you know like I think with JVR it's you know that's a wait and see people are always like

trade trade trade him I am okay with them just losing him to free agency I like JVR if he plays great and if they go

far and you know that you've got the depth to cover it and you never got the deal worked out I heard that somebody wasn't answering their phone at the draft that's what I heard too and that's why that deal didn't happen I mean I'm sure it's part of the reason

it didn't happen I'm sure there's fail safes in place but again to talk about the difference between now and a couple years ago a couple years ago we were talking about there is no move to make Now, it's frustrating as fans and, you know, just people trying to figure out what the hell's going on. It's frustrating to think of hypotheticals, but there are moves to be made. So, like, you know, you're talking about asset management.

They haven't done it yet, but, like, if we just look at potential moves, there's so many options. Well, and sorry to interrupt you, Mike, but just a second. If Lilligren does come in and impress, like the way Mitch Marner did last year, and I know Mitch Marner spent a year in junior before coming to the Leafs. Let's just say he does. Does that not then put, you've got Carrick, you've got Zaitsev, and you've got Lilligren on the right side, and that puts Hainsey in the spot. Let's say it's Lilligren and Dermott who are like, can't miss, have to make the team.

Does that put Hainsey in the 6-7 spot where he should be? And then somebody inevitably goes down for an injury, or they rotate guys out. or Dermot and Lilligren get rotated out or something like that. I don't know what the right deal is. If Lilligren makes the team, then probably Dermot doesn't because then you move Hainsey over to the left side. You've got Gardner, Riley, Hainsey on the left. You're probably right.

Lilligren, Carrick, and Zaitsev on the right side, and then probably Marincin and Marcinko as your 7-8. So you could put Hainsey and Lilligren together, and you've got one dependable and one like, Woo, he's really good, but we're expecting bad things to happen sometimes. No, it's funny because we've heard the speculation over the last month or so about JBR and then Bozak. I am of the opinion that there's a greater chance of them trading JBR than Bozak. Where's the depth at center?

Right, exactly. Will Dominic Moore be your number three? Colin Greening is a good friend of mine, Adam. How dare you? I mean, listen, nothing against Colin Greening, but it seems like that's not what they wanted. They could have done that last year. Yeah, I mean, unless, you know, the elephant in the room is, do they want to move Nylander to center?

Which I know that Babcock has said, no, we don't want to do that. We're going to keep him where he is. My particular theory is they don't want to do that because if he has a big offensive year and they have moved him to center, then that $6 million that they probably would pay him on a long-term deal just became $7.5. Right, because he's a center. You keep him on the wing, and he scores 60, 65, 70 points with Matthews.

Okay, it's great, and he's showing a lot of potential. But he's not playing the position that everybody thinks that he's eventually going to play. And playing center in the NHL, if you're scoring that amount of points at center, you're hitting the bank. You're going to get seven and a half. You're going to get Ryan O'Hanson. You're going to get eight million. You know, two years of 60-plus, but you're going to get eight million a year. And now, if you keep him at right wing, it could be a bridge deal for four, four and a half, or like Kucherov was three years at less than five million.

Oh my God, what a stupid deal. Which is a great deal in the short term for Tampa, but a ridiculously bad deal in the long term because it's P.K. Subban all over again. They're going to get bitch slapped. Yeah, especially with Kaloran's deal, right? Kaloran, you know, scoring, what was it, 25, 30 points? I'm going to step on this. Marleau, Matthews, Marner. Marner?

The triple M line. JVR, Nylander, Kapanen. And then what's Bozak? Gone. Traded. I don't know why you split up Matthews and Marner though Or Matthews and Nylander Who cares

It's linear I have to to put Nylander at center Certainly not moving Matthews to the wing My thought there is Yes there will be growing pains with Nylander But it's not like Bozak's wicked defensively No but he's a great face off guy And you've got Kadri too

It's not like he has to come in and be the second guy He can be the third guy And I, let's just say this, a year down the line, I think that the right winger on Austin Matthews' line is going to be Jeremy Bracco. Really? That's a big if. Yeah, I mean, not this year.

Bracco's going to play with the Marlies. He's got their concerns at the defensive end of the ice. As there is with every player in a junior. Right, exactly. But him and Matthews played together in the under-18s and lit it up and uh you know they're i think their game brocco is more of a playmaking winger matthews is more of a shooting center i think that combo works well and i think that you know when you have to maybe move some people out for salary reasons having brocco making 925

you know i think it's not going to take long for for them to want to bring him back bring him up Right. I didn't want to leave this behind, but since we're talking about least minor leaguers again. So you mentioned Janssen as your big call-up guy. You watch the Marlies more than I did. What about Janssen makes him a better pick for that position than Kirby Reichel? Speed. Kirby Reichel, I like his game.

He goes to the front of the net. He will charge to the front of the net. He'll take the abuse. He'll stick up for his teammates. I'm not 100% he's got NHL speed. Maybe he works with Barb Underhill and he gains a little bit. Because we've seen Freddie Gauthier was as slow as a tugboat when he was drafted in 2013. He was not too bad.

I mean, there was a marked improvement over the last couple years in his skating. He's never going to be a speedster. But Barb Underhill worked with him, and he was significantly better. If that can happen with Reichel, if he could gain a step, I think he can be a fourth-line winger in the NHL. I just think Janssen has got the speed and the offensive chops to be a top-nine forward. To be more interesting.

And the guy that we haven't mentioned who we saw in the playoffs, in the Calder Cup playoffs, who blew me away was Grundstrom. So good. Now, I like Leo Komaroff, and I think that they should re-sign Komaroff if the money is reasonable after this year. But Grundstrom, I mean, even Mark Hunter called him Leo Jr. when they drafted him. I mean, he's feisty. He gets under the skin of the opposition, and he can finish. And he's got speed.

But can he Estonian? Come on, right? That's so much better than what I was going to say But can he play the piano like Leo can I don't know Well if Leo Komarov comes in I know I'm sorry If Leo Komarov comes in

To me Leo Komarov As he gets older is the better Matt Martin Yeah And he's still a leader Yeah I know I feel like I would hate to see him go Because I love him but I also feel like Where does he fit

Right beyond this year No, Leo Komarov, well Matt Martin too But Leo Komarov defensively Is one of the better forwards in the NHL Yes So how do you lose that guy and do you put him on the fourth line? What's been strange to me is Whenever I ask about Matt Martin

Down the line, people Like just seem to very flippantly Go, oh, Marlies And like it's never been Like reporters? Yeah, like it's never been oh, it's going to be this big thing and they're going to have to trade them

or they're going to have to do this or that. It's just very flippantly, oh, Marley, don't worry about it. That's always been interesting to me. I don't know how they're going to do that without pissing off a lot of people. Hey, it's only a four-year deal or a year or two of it.

And he's not alive. That's the first time I've ever heard it referred to as only a four-year deal. Yeah, but it isn't the end of the world. Yeah, I mean, I think he's a capable player. Okay, he's not Matthews. He's not JVR. He serves a role.

You see the way he interacts with his teammates, that camaraderie, that leadership, that fist bumping as they're coming. That's important. I think that's really an important aspect of this team, and I think that they will find a way for him to be in the lineup. He may have to move to right wing, or Hyman may have to move to the right side. I've always thought, because I think Hyman's a right-hand shot, so he could play right wing. I've always thought that the checking line of the future was Komarov, Khadri, and Hyman. What a bunch of jerks.

Right, exactly. I mean, please, the shit-disturbing quotient on that line just with Komarov and Khadri is unbelievable. Most annoying line in hockey. Most annoying line in hockey. It would just be like, okay, they're going to come out and they're going to just drop a lot of gasoline and then just set one match and leave.

Like, it's, that seems, it's, yeah. So Connor Brown then. And that would free up so much room for Cousins. Can you move him up to a scoring role? He can handle it. He sure can. I mean, he led the OHL in scoring. I think he led the OHL in rookie scoring one year he was there.

He's answered every question he's been asked. Yeah, he scored 20 goals playing a defensive role for half the year. I mean, he wasn't playing with Matthews all the time. Only leafed to play all four lines. Yeah. I mean, I think he's proven a lot. And I think you'll see that reflected in the contract. I have a feeling the contract that he's going to end up signing is probably a three-year deal for anywhere from $2.75 to $3 million.

I'm okay with that. If the number starts with less than three, I will tap dance. God, I just can't imagine it being less than three. Were you one of those people who thought that Zach Hyman's deal was out of whack? Because I thought $2.25 million for Zach Hyman was a very good value. Yeah, I don't understand. It's a little high. I do understand.

I thought it was a little high. You bought unrestricted years. You had to realize that. Yeah, you're right. He's older, too. Yeah, a lot of people forget that. I don't understand why. You know, I just figured it out.

Years ago, I was ripping on Canucks fans. for complaining about Mason Raymond because they had nothing else to... And this is pre-back injury Mason Raymond. They had nothing else to complain about. When everything's going right, you need to complain about something. And whenever they lost a game,

it was fucking Mason Raymond. Zach Hyman is that in Toronto. Or Matt Martin. For some reason, he gets a pass because he's not playing with Matthews every night. Right. Right. I don't think he will anymore, by the way.

I don't think... You think they're going to put Marleau with him? Probably not. How could you not? And just see what that looks like. Like, whoa. I mean, that's where, okay, I have no complaints with what the Leafs did in the offseason. I think they were all good moves.

I mean, again, Hainsey I thought was the replacement for Hunwick. Dominic Moore was a really good replacement for Brian Boyle. They're different type of players. Moore is a smaller guy, but, you know, defensively he's very responsible. And Marlo, you know, I think that was, you know, Babcock loves him, Olympian experience, you want that guy around your young core. But there's, it really didn't address the area that they needed to address. I mean, I would, as somebody looking at their situation, it's like, you know, I think somebody said, well, why didn't, you know, they could have spent the $6 million a year on Andre Markoff instead of, and not, you know, as a one-year deal, you know, at least it would address the area that they needed to address. Whereas they, you know, you added another great winger to a team that has so many wingers. It was a little bit like the Bernier trade, in a way.

Like, okay, you improved a position, but it was arguably your strongest position the previous season. There was a loss in confidence of Reimer after Game 7. One game ruined the conversation. Well, that just shows you how reactive and stupid the management was. Thank God, though. But is and I'm not saying that this is stupid, but I mean, I looked at the Marlowe signing and I said, OK, that means they're trading JVR because you just added a number one left winger and you have a number of your incumbent number one left winger is up at the end of this year. And I do not think there is any possibility that JVR re-signs in Toronto. He can make me a liar, but the only way he re-signs in Toronto is if he takes, like I'd say, a three- or four-year deal at around the same money he's making now.

And he's 29 years old next summer. No, he's not going to do that. He's going to hit it out of the park. He's going to sign a Lucic deal or an Opozo deal for $6 million for six or seven years. Opozo's a pretty good guy, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, so they really have no hope of signing him to the deal that he wants. So you would think that they would want to, they, you know, maybe, you know, we know that he can score. We know he fits in well here.

But at a certain point, they have to get assets back for him. Unless they just think that, you know, they're going to make a run at the Stanley Cup and he helps them on that road. The way I look at the Leafs is like a really big bodybuilder who skipped leg day. Like they're a little thin They're like They're all big up here Like up front And then like

They get Legs are In shape out of shape Guy from the 50s Yeah You know And maybe they do Maybe they do trade

JVR Maybe they do I don't hate it If they don't though Because again Then you've got Marlowe And JVR The reason I'm on my phone

Right now Is I'm trying to look at Deals that happened Really early last year And when they happened So Okay Minor league deal

October 11th minor league deal, October 8th. The Yakupov to St. Louis deal happened October 7th. Right. The big Boland-Kraus deal happened August 25th. Right. Last year. And

yeah, nothing between that and July 18th. So trades do happen. Yes. Between now and the beginning of the season, but not many of them, and we're running out of time. Yeah, if you had an early deal, you remember, because I know you were there. We walk in. Oh, fuck.

We walk into the MasterCard Center, and they're holding all these interviews with all the players, and I think- Brad Boyes. Brad Boyes and Taylor Back was interviewed. Devin Setaguchi. Devin Setaguchi and Curtis Glencross. Oh, yeah! Oh, man, I forgot about that.

So then, about five minutes later, we're waiting for Lou. All of a sudden, Steve Keough, the Leafs Media Relations Director, comes up and says, Lou's going to come out and talk to us. They're like, oh, okay, nobody expected it. And then all of a sudden, one of the other guys for the media relations started passing out pieces of paper. Taylor Beck, Matt Finn, Carter. There's been a six-player trade?

A six-player trade, stealth. It was Lou's introduction to the Toronto media. They just passed it out. Nobody knew. It was like, boom. And he did the same thing last year with the Bernier trade. It was in Niagara Falls, Matthews and Marner at the rookie development camp. And Lou comes out and says, we've traded Jonathan Bernier to Anaheim.

And I was like, no, nobody. Very nonchalantly. Yeah, and for future considerations. And I asked him, like, do you have any – can you elaborate on the future considerations? There are future considerations. No. Nothing. But with Lou, I mean, he holds his card so close to the vest that it's very possible that there is a deal that will happen,

that could happen in between now and training camp or right at training camp. So I think – How is it not Nashville? I mean, is he not a good replacement for James Neal? JVR. Yeah. Who did they get this offseason? They got Nick Bonino.

Yeah. I'm trying to remember if they made a big trade or something. Well, they got Emelin from Vegas. They did get Emelin from Vegas. I don't know why they needed to do that. And they say that they're comfortable with their defense the way it is, but Ryan Ellis is a free agent, I believe, in two seasons. And Yossi is up, I think, in two or three years,

And he could be the most under – next to John Tavares, he could be the most underpaid player in the National Hockey League. His salary is – it starts with a four, and that's obscene. Tavares should be able to kick his agent in the balls for that contract. Yeah. It doesn't even make six million bucks. Well, hey, even – I mean, Stamkos did the same thing in terms of taking the five-year deal, but at least he got seven and a half. Right. You know, now –

Amazing that's a bargain. Yeah. Yeah, now Tavares is probably going to UFA next year. I mean, he says he wants to stay in Brooklyn. That's all fine and good. But the teams that are out there in terms of in the rumor sphere regarding Tavares, one is Montreal, as you said, which would, I think, make most Leaf fans up, Chuck. And the other one, I think, would make people equally as sick is Tampa

Because you've got the advantage of the state tax, of no state tax. He probably would take like $9 million, which would basically be the same thing as $11 million. Nashville has the same thing, too. Nashville has no tax. So does Dallas. That's why Radulov got offered the same deal in Dallas that he did in Montreal, but the taxes in Quebec are up the wazoo. Oh, they're crazy. Yeah.

We came up with a silly little fantasy scenario. I mean, me. I'm silly. I'm sorry. This was before Carey Price was extended. I'm like, what if the Habs are well out of a playoff spot? Do we actually see the trade rental Carey Price? UFA John Tavares would be the biggest UFA since.

Yes. Since who? To be available at the deadline? Brad Richards. Brad Richards, yeah. In terms of hype, but I mean, he's way better than... Oh, yeah, yeah. Brad Richards was 31.

What would be comparable to that? Like Wayne Gretzky? Like, I mean, and I'm not saying that John Tavares is Wayne Gretzky. And Wayne Gretzky was in his 30s at that point before leaving from going to St. Louis to eventually. Should have been Toronto. Should have been Toronto. Yeah, because he went to that five-day window. He did.

He did re-sign. He did re-sign or he did, you know, take a meeting with the Leafs and the mayor and Canadian Tire and what else? Canadian Tire? Remember that? Oh, my God. They were showing him the sponsorship money you can make by signing in Toronto. Now, the question is, is that cap circumvention? If all of a sudden the Leafs in late June of 2018, they pitch John Tavares and they

say, okay, Canadian Tire will give you $3 million a year in an endorsement deal, and we'll offer you 10. That'll make you the highest paid player in the NHL, but only 10 of it will go on the books. I don't think that's cap circumvention. I think that's leveraging your assets. Yeah. Interesting.

I don't think that's capture of convention at all. Let's say the Leafs did do that. One interesting little thing they probably left out is when it comes to Olympic-caliber players, that shit doesn't matter. Stamkos has those deals. He has a deal with Coke. He has a deal with Nike. Could probably get one with Canadian Tire.

Tavares has basically whatever he wants. Crosby advertises frickin' bread. Dowdy advertises chips. And he's on Canadian Tire, too, I think. A lot of guys do stuff with, like, what? esso or yeah or but still tim hortons and i know but with olympic caliber guys the whole toronto allure that doesn't matter it's not like hey leo kamarov and matt martin we're gonna put you in a ford web ad yeah but this is you know it's a little different this is what we have to look

forward to over the next decade is that for all this talk over the last few years of nobody wants to play in toronto the the media scare you know it scares people off done that's done because now you've got austin matthews you've got marner you've got this young core and you know patrick marlo said it when he signed i mean one of the reasons he came here was because that you had this young talented core and this team has the potential to win and they paid me then they paid me money so i mean it's going to it's going to attract players it it you know it definitely will i mean it's done it you know brad richards went to chicago on a one year one million dollar contract to win a stanley cup you will get that in the next few years you'll get guys who are veterans

who will take one year a million a million and a half because they think that this team can win the stanley cup now hopefully it'll be defenseman you know and and if the leafs and i wrote about this for for the sporting news if the if the leafs were going in on tavarez like they did on stamp coast the only the only downside is you're probably going to have to trade cadre because you'll have tavarez playing up the middle playing 15 to 20 minutes a night matthew's doing the same you have Kadri making four and a half

million dollars and you know as a checking and what a deal holy smokes great deal and you can get something for him

but the thing is you know the Penguins win the Stanley Cup and they have Nick Bonino as their number three center

and that was a matchup problem for them but Nick Bonino was making a million nine as soon as they had to pay

him what he was worth which was over four million they couldn't afford him so they would probably have to

trade Kadri for most likely defensive help and unless Lou really gets onerous with Marner and Nylander to get them on bridge deals

like the Kucherov, they probably would have to trade one of those guys. I have a feeling that they're not going to put those guys on bridge deals. They're just going to sign them. Yeah.

They're just going to sign them. How are there two months left? We have limited time, so we got to do the press conference. Go ahead, Jesse. No real press conference. Oh, we're not going to do a press conference.

Okay, fine. We're not going to do the press conference. I was about to do the... I prepared. I was all prepared for the press conference. Wow.

Wow, no press conference. Calling in Audible, I guess we got to... Yeah, I guess we got to wrap it up and go, but Mike, thank you so much for coming in and for sharing your knowledge and your perspective and your story, which is, I think, the best. Yeah, and we're constantly going, you know, all the young listeners and students in school and all that. When did you start this call-in journey?

1998. How old were you? 31. You're in your 30s. Yeah. You know, so if you've been thinking about it and you want to give it a shot, give it a shot. Doesn't matter how old you are.

Absolutely. Mike, thanks so much for coming in, man. Thanks, guys. Anytime. If we can find Mike at HockeyBuzz and obviously Mike in Buffalo on Twitter because, of course. And in real life, apparently, I guess. Does it say in Buffalo on the license? No, no, no, no.

And you said the Sporting News as well. Sporting News Canada. Thanks for coming in, buddy. Thanks. Follow the guys on Twitter at Steve underscore Dangle. At Adam W-Y-L-D-E. and at jesse blake the steve dangle podcast brought to you by panago pizza order at panago.com and stuff your face with deliciousness