The Steve Dangle Podcast - Mitchellurg Marnitogorsk | July 2, 2019

Episode Date: July 2, 2019

On this episode of The Steve Dangle Podcast, Chris Johnston (@reporterchris) joins the show to talk about the Leafs (55:00), Eric Engels on the phone to talk about the Habs (@EricEngels), and Andy Graziano (@AndyGraz_WFAN) from New York to talk about the Islanders (1:13:00). Originally aired: July 2, 2019 Watch the full episode here: https://youtu.be/X-1AUM82uTM Merch: https://teespring.com/en-GB/stores/fancydangleshirts Follow us on Twitter: @Steve_Dangle, @AdamWylde, & @JesseBlake Follow us on Instagram: @SteveDangle, @AdamWylde, & @Jesse.Blake Subscribe to us on iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/steve-dangle-podcast/id669828195?mt=2 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the last two weeks, the Leafs have dumped $18.1 million off their salary cap. Actually? Yes. That's a lot of dollars. They also took on $13.1 million. Well, there's that. There is that. Now.

Oh, details. to help us break down what the hell happened because quite frankly we were starting to get a little cagey about halfway through. Starting to worry a little bit halfway through. Me? Never. Maybe Steve was going to lose it on his Leafs

halfway through. Don't let Mitch Marner hold up everything else you want to do, said Steve. Oh, it was a two-part mind-losing. It was a two-part mind-losing. It was don't let Mitch Marner hold up everything and then yesterday at the end of the free agent frenzy

So we thought I called the Leafs losers Wow now to bring on we had to bring on somebody who was gonna be That's not an overreaction at all the beacon of truth and light in our lives when it comes to the Leafs and other things too Honestly, mr. Chris Johnston. Congratulations Chris on an incredible season. Just want to say Thank you. It was a fun year. Well, I hope so because it didn't feel like a fun year from our perspective No. Okay, so you saw what happened with the Leafs yesterday. And let's talk at about, I don't know, 3.30 yesterday before this trade goes through with Tyson Berry and Nazem Khadri. How are you feeling about the Leafs' last two weeks before that trade yesterday around this time?

Well, I was still pretty bullish on it, honestly, because, you know, I knew that Nazem Khadri at that point was likely to be moved. you know i'm not i wasn't sure exactly what he was going to bring back or you know what it would be how long it would take but you know it did seem to me like that was a sensible way to approach uh solving an issue which was to to rebuild their defense to a certain degree and so you know i wasn't probably down on them as steve was i wouldn't have putting them in the loser pile i wasn't uh you know i wasn't thinking it was a disaster but you know when you take in the totality i think it's hard to argue that they haven't made some improvements here and they've done it all well not compromising themselves with the cap yeah they've they've definitely

improved um i would say as of the cadre trade they improved uh people were trying to sell me on the well they got up from under sites of contract and believe me i understood why that was a wonderful thing and something that i had hoped for for a very long time i just looked at the right side of defense, and I went, I'm sorry, who the hell plays for the Toronto Maple Leafs? Right. Please don't. I had so many people going, hey, don't worry, Cody CeCe's going to be on the third pair. Behind who?

What? Ben Harper. Yeah, but Justin Hall and Timothy Lilligren, who may never actually get called up, I'll believe it when I see it. Like, sorry, I was, forgive me, CJ, if I was losing my mind a little bit. Well, to be fair, you were losing your mind going back about

four days. Yeah, that's true. Days? Very true, yeah. Well, Probably a lot longer than that, but certainly over the weekend, I was getting a lot of frantic texts from you. The Leafs are trading Zaitsev. What? For CeCe. What?

Well, okay, so let's talk about that deal, because it was kind of the first major piece after Marlowe, right? Yes. We're looking at, you know, we thought Connor Brown might get moved to the trade deadline. He gets thrown in as what they're calling, at least, a sweetener to Ottawa. Coming back, you've got CeCe and Harper, both right-shot guys, both big guys, both hucking up and not— Harper's left.

Is Harper left? I also don't think it matters. I don't think he'll play a game for the Leafs. I don't think so either. But my question to you, CJ, is when you look at what Cody CeCe brings, are we just getting basically what Nikita Zaitsev brought but for less than five more years? Is that what the goal is here? Or do the Leafs really believe with this guy that at 25 years old and, you know,

He was drafted high, and there were big expectations. And at one point, this guy was considered to be, you know, a really great prospect for the Ottawa Senators. Is this guy they believe that they can change, rehab, and get some found money out of? Well, I think the reason this works for the Leafs is that, at minimum, he's the guy you mentioned. He's Zaitsev equivalent or complementary, and he's only signed for one year, you know, presumably when this trade goes through, instead of five more, the way Nikita Zaitsev was. So, you know, that worked for the Leafs on a number of levels. The risk is not nearly the same as it is in terms of taking Zaitsev on like the Senators did.

And, you know, I think you've got to see. I mean, part of Cody Ceci's tough results to me is that he's been on a poor team and he's been used in a way that, you know, I don't think the Leafs intended any stretch to use him as a matchup guy. So I'm playing into the 20-minute range consistently for them. And so we'll have to see. You know, I think that this is a buy-low kind of scenario for Toronto. You know, it's hard to see that because it's a bit of a complex trade. But, you know, they didn't really give up all that much that they valued to get him.

You know, I do expect he'll be on a one-year contract. And, you know, let's see if a change of scenery and a third-pairing kind of deployment, you know, a lot of zone start in his favor and those types of things, you know, make him into a bit more useful of a player than he appeared to be in Ottawa. Do you see him being the kind of guy that Toronto can, if they get, apparently there was the verbal agreement, and I believe it was you who tweeted this out, between Kyle Dubas and CeCe and his agent that said basically $4.5 million, but you can go up to $3.8 million in a signing bonus, right? So that leaves $800,000 that CeCe could make throughout the year. That makes him more attractive to floor teams. There is the argument out there floating around that maybe the Leafs do that and trade him to a floor team so they can absorb the cap and he never sees a game with the Leafs.

When you consider the way the rest of the lineup is constructed, fast, puck moving, accurate passing, he doesn't seem to fit those bills. And I wonder what your perspective is on that. Or do they feel like, yeah, you know what, we are mostly skilled, but we do still need what Cody Ceci could bring at his best? Well, for the reason Steve was freaking out before I knew about Tyson Barry, I think they're unlikely to move him straight away unless they know they have another right shot player lined up. I mean, just from a balance standpoint, you know, it probably makes sense to structure the contract in the manner that you're laying out there because, look, players tend to favor upfront money.

There is a value to present money. And we've seen this, the Leafs do this with a lot of guys they like, too. You know, it just makes all these players more tradable. That's why the CC deal waited until July 1st, because of the bonuses that were paid to Nikita Zaitsev and Azam Khadri and Connor Brown. The reason those three trades all didn't happen before July 1st is that the Leafs were able to pay that money, and the teams are getting those players for a higher cap hit, but not having to lay out as much in terms of their paychecks. I think this is something the Leafs have brilliantly used to their advantage. I wonder if it will survive as something they can do into the next collective bargaining agreement,

because there are, you know, teams out there that don't like that, you know, this is an advantage, so to speak, that some of the richer teams have, like Toronto, like Montreal, as we saw in their attempts to get Sebastian Ojo, you know, it was going to include a lot of bonus money. But, you know, when we're talking specifically about Cody Ceci, I do think it makes some degree of sense to build a decent signing bonus in there in case they get to a point where they feel they have to move him or they're able to perhaps get another right shot at the end

and it makes him more expendable because he's a lot easier to trade to a team that's down near the bottom and turns a cap hit but doesn't really have to pay him much to play. Right. Chris, you deserve some time off. I would love for you to get some time off. But the more you talk, the more I'm like, CJ's going to get zero time off at all.

Hang on to that, too, just to interrupt. What did CJ offer to do before this very episode? Massage my temples? Oh, my God, this guy. cj i'm hey so uh inside your temples yeah hey uh cj phoner yeah or like i can walk there it'll take like 25 minutes like he was just gonna walk here on a whim and just come out take like a half hour walk chris we owe you so much we owe you many meals and many beers my friend well i appreciate that uh you know and this isn't work i mean that in all seriousness both your podcast but even

what i do for actual money uh doesn't feel like work and i think that's part of what makes it so enjoyable and why I don't mind doing it. And you won't hear much complaint out of me if this keeps being a busy NHL offseason into mid-July because, for one, it feels like it could be, and secondly, it's kind of fun, too. So, you know, I don't mind. Well, for the reasons you just laid out,

I don't sense a Cody Ceci deal coming anytime soon. Kerfoot, I think, is sort of leaning towards salary arbitration, so I don't see that ending anytime soon. And then, well, Mitch Marner's represented by Darren Ferris, so I don't see that ending any time soon. So what do you think Kyle Dubas is going to do to fill his time? Well, I don't know that there's much else he can do. I mean, really, I think his focus is the Marner situation.

There's only so much he can do. But now that you're on the other side of July 1st, at least to the point where we're having this conversation, an offer sheet hasn't emerged for him. I'm sure that he was looking on longingly at the situation Carolina had with Ajo. The Leafs would gladly like to see Marner get that kind of offer sheet, even with the upfront money. Could they?

Well, I mean, no, but they would match that in half a second. They would love to see that kind of structure and cap hit come in, even a five-year deal I think they can live with, even though that's probably the least desirous number of years from the Leafs' perspective just because they're walking Marner and Matthews to potential free agency at the exact same time. But, you know, I don't think they'll be very busy. I'm still curious what's happening with Jake Gardner.

You know, I've heard a fair bit of conversation that he'd like to find his way back to Toronto. I don't know if it takes another trade or some sort to make that happen. It would have to. Well, you would think even just from a roster standpoint. I mean, let's leave the money aside for a moment, because I think if he ever did come back, it would be on what we would deem to be a hometown discount, certainly compared to what he can get on the open market.

But his free agent position has been the weirdest probably of any player this year. I've had trouble getting any real intel on it. I've been told consistently he wanted to come back to Toronto, even as we sort of thought that wasn't possible, just because of the cap implications. And so it just feels to me like it's at least hanging out there as a possibility. But, you know, I would think it involves a trade, and those aren't always easy to make, although Caldubus has been making them look pretty easy

with the number he's pulled off in the last 10 days or so. But, you know, I don't think it'll be that much more busy of a summer, honestly, from the Leafs' perspective. And the key for them would be trying to get Marner's contract sewn up long before training camp because I don't think they want to enter another season the way that they went through the start of last one. Do you know how long ago the Leafs made the decision

to move Kadri? Was this something that Dubas was convinced once he was suspended versus Boston, he's like, he's not coming back with this team? Or did it lead up until this past weekend? I think it was more around the draft time. At that position, at that point in time, they made the decision once and for all,

so to speak, to sign Kapanen and Janssen and not trade those guys because a lot of the teams that had called the Leafs and were interested even in, say, taking Patrick Marleau's contract wanted one of those players and so around the point where they reached verbal agreements uh with captain and johnson and so they decided essentially that they weren't going to use those players to to turn into other assets i think that that sort of sealed cadres fade i mean

obviously it's been hanging in the air as a possibility but you know i really don't think it was until around the draft when the leash stepped up their efforts and and essentially they talked to every team that uh needed a potential center depth and had some defensemen that you know might be be tradable and and kind of work the market from from that standpoint and obviously they had to create their own cap room before they could make that trade i think you know paying cadres bonus on july 1st was another incentive they could offer a team and and um you know they asked nazim nazim to wave his no trade clause that he had as part of a deal they had with Calgary, and Kadri didn't do that.

But I think, really, once you do that, it's hard to bring a guy back. I mean, you've already signaled that he's going to be traded. You know, Kadri has a 10-team no-trade clause, and so that meant there's 20 other teams out there that didn't require his consent, and that sort of paved the way for the deal to come together with Colorado. He traded, instead of going to Calgary, he went to America's Calgary. Basically.

Denver and Calgary are very similar in a lot of ways. They're beautiful. Everyone's high? Not everyone's high, no. No, hold on, though. Hold on, though. I want to ask about that because you talk about the Calgary trade that was nixed. Yeah.

Evidently, now, from what we've heard, from what I've heard, it's TJ Brody that was involved in that. Have you heard any names? Who was the third team? What's the deal there? Well, I do believe it was TJ Brody. I don't know 100% that was the case, but it was a more complex trade that was being pulled off.

I believe Winnipeg was the third team that was involved. And, you know, I can't tell you what else the Leafs would have given up if it would have just been Cali Rosen the way they did to Colorado. I don't know what was going between Winnipeg and Calgary. So, you know, it's a bit incomplete. But I know for certain that Calgary was the city that Nazem was asked to waive as no trade for, and that it was a similar type of deal in conception from just the Toronto standpoint that they made with Colorado,

i.e. they were going to get a defenseman back that could play the right side, which T.J. Brody fits the profile, and another cheaper center slash forward that they could plug in, essentially, to Kadri's place, because that was really where Kerfoot falls in and the deal that was made. So at the time that Kadri's making that choice, he probably doesn't know that Colorado, I don't believe he knew, all right, if you turn it down to Calgary, you're going to Denver,

and you don't have a say in it, I doubt that he would have had that degree. He was just more focused on if the timing is right. I think he's soon to become a new father. There's a lot going on in his life. And obviously any player that has a no trade has the right to turn down a destination. I don't think it was an outright, there's no chance I'm going to Calgary. I think there was some discussion there.

But ultimately that knocked the trade off the rails. This guy was drafted 10 years ago. What was your favorite Nazem Kadri memory? either talking or on the ice or just some that stand out well what i always loved about him and it's not so much a specific memory but i've never seen a player less affected by the media in toronto which is obviously largely my dealings with them uh with with these guys that play for the leafs than then cadre i mean you know right from the moment he came in when you know the Dallas Aikens called him fat when he was their top prospect.

Right. And literally, I think that the Toronto Sun headline said fat so with a picture of him on the front cover. We're talking like 18, 19-year-old kid, which... I'm shocked. Different time. Even if it's true, it's just, it's uncomfortable looking back. It wasn't much better in the moment. I mean, it's kind of a strange way to treat your top prospect.

I get that you're trying to get through him and change his ways. But, you know, despite all that stuff and many things in between, I mean, remember he was suspended by the team for missing a practice a few years ago. He's been suspended on the ice a number of times, including the two times in the playoffs that are going to stick in people's minds, but even three or four other times. I mean, no matter what the controversy or the story of the moment was, he just never was really in a bad mood with the media. He always seemed to like to play it up. He was one of those guys that I always would say, the edgier the question you ask him, the better the answer is. I mean, he's a terrible sort of answering the normal rote question,

but you could ask him something very specific and with a bit of edge to it, and he was always great to deal with. So, you know, I think my best memories probably are just the dealings with him because he's way, way, way above average for NHL players in terms of a media member. You know, on the ice, he had some great moments. I remember, this is going a ways back, but I covered a game in Ottawa on a Saturday night. He had a hat trick, and I believe Don Cherry actually was at the game and brought him in and kissed him like he did in Gilmore all those years ago.

In front of Colton Orr and Fraser McLaren. You know, that was around the time that Naz was really taken off, and it was becoming clear that he was going to deliver on his promise and be a real impact player for the Leafs. I mean, remember, in the Randy Carlisle era, it took a while for him to break through. I mean, he was sort of a third-line center slash second line for a while, But, you know, he wasn't playing with Kessel. And so it took a little bit of a period of time for him to break through.

I remember the Game 7 in 2013 in Boston. He scored the goal in the third period of Game 7. All right, hang on. One to one. I mean, I just – Hang on for a second. Hang on. Lots of cool moments as a Leaf, is all I'm saying.

I mean, what happened next, I realized, it's probably – come on, Steve. It's not that painful now. It's years later. There's other pain on top of that pain. Oh, yeah. You have to pick a pig pain sandwich. Sorry, go ahead. No, no, you go. Maybe not the worst transition.

Nazem Khadri plays the whole series against Boston. Is he still a Leaf? The odds are better, for sure. I mean, first of all, they might win the series. I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that one of Toronto's edges in that series was having the three centers they do, because the Bruins aren't similarly stacked at this point beyond Patrice Bergeron. David Krejci is getting up there.

and they get to game seven. So, I mean, there's no way we'll ever know, but losing Kadri for five games of that series, having Nylander play center instead of potentially on Austin Matthews' wing, I mean, all those kind of dynamics maybe make it differently, and certainly I think he's seen a little bit differently. You know, there was some trust loss there. You know, 10 years is a long time for an athlete,

and especially an athlete that's, you know, a first-round pick the way Kadri was with all the turmoil that this team and this organization has been through in that 10 years. And I think I really do believe that the Leafs felt that they had put a lot of faith in Kadri. I mean, they didn't trade him when he missed that practice during sort of one of those forgotten seasons and was suspended. But, you know, they kind of challenged him at that point. And I think that on some level with upper management, there was a feeling that you just didn't know if you could trust him in those moments to make the right decision to be reliable. I know it's a bit of a harsh judgment, but, you know, it's two serious suspensions, back-to-back years.

I mean, I hate it. Same city, same team, same spot in the ice. You know, it's hard to say you learned from the lesson that, you know, from the 2018 playoffs, you know, this time around. Is it a harsh judgment? Like, the one thing is that I was a big Nas defender. And, you know, even for me, and not that I matter, but, you know, even for me watching on my own, you know, if the Leafs went into Boston next year and Nas was in the lineup, like, that is a topic on this show. Will Nazem Qadri make it through this?

And it would be on any show, I think. You're not doing your job if you're not talking about that storyline. And I do find it funny, kind of interesting, that Nazem Qadri's third game with the Avalanche will be against the Boston Bruins. Oh, you're joking. So it's like we're talking first weekend of the year, Nazem Qadri and the Colorado Avalanche,

which sounds so weird, against the Boston Bruins. Now, I want to say, Chris, what you were saying there is, you know, it's true. Like there has to be a point where an organization goes, OK, we've we've worked. We've tried to work through all these things with you. And yes, maybe the off ice issues are gone. But even on the ice, we kind of need you to be there because you're a key member of this team. That said, his contribution to the turnaround of this team should not go unstated either.

And you kind of made mention of it. But like we're talking about a guy that I remember when, you know, Mike Babcock's first year and Nazem Khadri signs that show me deal. And he can't score a goal to save his life that year because he just his shooting regressed. And that's what it was. But what a player he turned into. And, you know, I I look at it now and I go, I hope he's not remembered for those two suspensions in the playoffs. I know that's what maybe necessitated some of this, but I sure hope that's not what people pull out of 10 years of Nazem Qadri because it was so much more than that. Yeah, and I think that will be the case. I mean, certainly, I don't get the sense there's any bad feelings towards him for management or anything like that.

I should be clear. They didn't have to trade him. It's just, let's rewind back and look at their decision at Sopse's. I think their decision was, we probably have to trade one of our forwards to get a defenseman. And if it's not going to be a younger forward like a Kaepernick or Janssen, you know, Kadri's the next logical choice. And so I think that that was really where more of the decision-making factored in. And just the fact that the playoffs ended the way they did, you know,

I think it makes it a little bit easier to justify because let's not make any mistake here. At least they're giving up one of the better value contracts in the league. You know, probably one of the smartest things that happened was when he had that year where just the shooting percentages were brutal they signed him to a six-year deal right after because he wasn't in a particularly strong bargaining position and that's how they got him on the four and a half million dollar contract that's made him so tradable today i mean what the avalanche love about him is he's a no doubt second line center for them he's not taking up much cap room he does play with a bit of edge you know all the things that made him a really good

player for the leafs for for a lot of seasons and you know this is just sort of cap mechanics that are forcing him out at this point in time probably even more than those suspensions so you know i i'm i'm with you i think that his you know what should be remembered about him is he was a really good player you know people saw him grow up in front of their eyes he got married last summer he's about to become a father he's come a long way from being the little kid that they were calling fat at one point and you know i i do think that he was one of the reasons that they they came out of that era that they were i mean he was he was good and he was worth keeping for all those 10 years uh chris we've talked a lot about what the player what you know what players

left we've over talked about what nikita zaitsev was and what you know chris or sorry um uh connor brown was um let's talk about the players that came in starting with tyson berry and we also want to talk about spets and shore and kerfoot but tyson berry's the big name yesterday and tyson berry's a guy that's i think he's the answer to like a trivia question right we've been saying who's this right d the least you're gonna get well now you finally have your answer and you get him at 2.75 i think like it's it's half retained it's ridiculous uh that they got that um in your estimation like for leaf fans that that don't catch a lot of colorado games of which sorry there are many um what what do you see in tyson barry what does he bring to this lineup

and and what should we expect from him good and bad well i think he's a better version of jake gardner who happens to shoot the other way so for all kinds of reason that that fits in because Because at this point in time, despite what I said earlier, we have to assume Jake Gardner's leaving the Leafs. And so getting a defenseman who can put up 50 to 60 points, as Jake has done and as Tyson Berry has done, is a real benefit. I think that it's closer to the kind of hockey that Kyle Dubas really wants to see the Leafs play, pushing the pace.

The way I envision it, without knowing for sure, is that you're seeing Berry start with Jake Muzzin and having Morgan Riley on another pairing. Really? I think he's right. Wow. And so then you got really good puck movement from your top two pairings. You've obviously got two different defensemen that can lead a power play.

You have that spoken for next season. I mean, this is a home run for the Leafs, which is not a criticism of Colorado. I think we could similarly understand why they were in a position to give up Perry and like how Cadry rebalanced their lines. Well, this is a rebalancing of what the Leafs have needed on their blue line. And, you know, I think that this guy is going to be really, really good because he's motivated, too. I mean, you can look at it two ways.

The downside is that he's only got one year and he's an unrestricted free agent. The upside is he's got a lot of incentive to have a home run of a season. He's going to be playing with talented players, and I think he's going to be getting the puck up into the forward's hands on a consistent level, much like we've seen Jake Gardner do it, but he's probably even better at doing it than Jake was. I think he's right, man.

I'm curious why both of you think, and why it would make sense, because a lot of people instantaneously go, well, it's got to be Riley-Berry, right? So why put him with Jake Muzzin, and who do you put with Morgan Riley? Because there's only one puck. Oh. There's only one puck. People were posting, I can't remember which side it was.

Oh, it was Daily Faceoff. And if Barry and Riley were to play together, they'd be one of the best top pairings in the league based on some sort of algorithm. them there's one puck that they both move the puck up so my first thought was oh he's going to play with muzzin and cc will probably play with riley interesting unless it's dermot right dermot when he's healthy i think we'll do this riley just just a feeling i mean the other thing too steve is we know that riley can produce positive results even strength with morgan

or sorry with ron hansy attached to him i mean he doesn't need to be the kind of player that you give um that you basically spoon spoon feed them a top level partner i think that morgan can drive results you know even with with maybe someone that's not as strong there and then muzzin and barry makes a lot of sense muzzin's pretty reliable guy he could also move it i mean this the least blue line is going to look totally different next season and that's not even knowing if there's further moves to come from our our conversation we're having now but you know this This is potentially the kind of thing you're pointing back at going, you know, that a lot of things turned the day they made that trade.

And then Alex Kerfoot. I mean, this guy is going to be, they say, potentially maybe the third-line center. I was surprised he was in the deal, to be frank. Yeah, I mean, it seems like there's some real value there. And, again, because I don't think Leaf fans are staying up late unless you're one of the hardcore, like Steve. You're not staying up late and watching maybe the second game on Wednesday night because you have to go to bed and go to work in the morning. Alex Kerfoot, the numbers on him are that he is a defensive center.

And one of the things that people in the advanced stats community say usually to stay away from is these guys that are defensive specialists because it just means a lot of the time they're just not good. In his case, that seems to be the opposite. Well, because he's still put up 40 points in each of those years, which is not, you know, it's not to be scoffed at when he's producing a lot of even strength. And on the wing. You know, not playing with his, you know,

he wasn't playing up with McKinnon too often in those minutes. And so, you know, I think his upside as a player is less than what Kadri was in his prime. But the bet here is, you know, he's four years younger. Right. And so you're getting still a pretty young guy. I don't see him being a 30-goal scorer in the league the way Naz has been twice.

But, you know, filling in on a third line, it makes a lot of sense that that's the sort of guy you have. I mean, remember, he's probably going to have good line mates. I'm thinking Trevor Moore, Kasperi Kapanen, just when you're writing out the Leafs trios. I mean, the Leafs could be a real wagon with this group. So, you know, I like the move to get a younger guy. You know, obviously he's going to be a little cheaper, at least to start, than Nazem Kadri was. And, you know, he doesn't bring you the high-end upside, but, you know, you're buying his prime a little bit more.

And, you know, I think he'll be a good fit. It might also pave the way, too, to having more minutes given to Tavares and Matthews, which I think was much discussed. But, you know, part of the reason those guys maybe didn't play as many minutes as some people would like is that, you know, there was an effort there to keep Kadri engaged and involved. And, you know, he never complained once to my knowledge about it, But, you know, he took a real role hit when John Tavares signed here.

I mean, it knocked him into a different position on the team. And I think there's an argument to be made, even as good as he is, that you don't want to be using him that way, that it wasn't maybe the best way to be allocating the resources when you have a hard cap. And I was going to be number two behind Nathan McKinnon. Wow. Not so bad.

So I was, you know, obviously scouring Twitter and watching people make all their projections for next year. And there's one name that kept sticking out to me, and the only reason he's on these lists is because we've been told he'll be there. Mikheyev, the signing out of the KHL. Really? Are we sure that that is going to be a thing? Because the Leafs have signed guys out of the KHL before who were in Madagascar by the end of October.

Do you think he's going to make the team? That's a tough one. I mean, he's probably going to start with the team, but whether he makes an impact or not I think is a very open question. I mean, what's good at this point in time is I don't see any reason at all why he would be starting above the fourth line. And so, you know, can he be a fourth liner? Probably. KHL's a real league, and he's put up some numbers there.

He's been an established player over there, but I don't know that he's going to be anything you're getting that excited about. I would guess that he's coming more along the Par-Lindholm, Miro Alton in school than – he's obviously not Artemi Panarin coming over as he did many years ago to Chicago. But from what I've heard, he's a decent player, maybe not the swiftest skater. And if he's on your fourth line, I certainly don't think it's the end of the world. But I don't know that we should be hyping him too much either because there's just a lot of unknowns with how he'll transition,

whether he can make that much of an impact. I still think it's a good signing. I think all these guys are worth the risk, for one. And secondly, they become assets. I mean, Callie Rosen was just traded to Colorado, and I'm confident he would have been playing NHL games with the Leafs next year had he been kept in the organization. I mean, it wasn't bad to have him, and he's an example.

someone else they signed as a European for Asia. It wasn't bad to have him in the organization these last couple of years. And you can trade him for something. So, you know, it's the same way they turned Lindholm into Nick Patan. Who knows what Patan will be, but he's not that far removed from being a pretty high pick.

He's been on a world junior team. He's got some skill. You know, the Leafs to me are smart by trying to bring these guys over and seeing what they have in them. And the truth is on Mikheyev, we're not going to really know until we see him play some real games

in September and October. So the real question for me here, Chris, and seeing what we saw yesterday, obviously Jason Spetz's name comes up, Nick Shore's name comes up, Nick Battan's name comes up, all different players. Kenny Agostino. Kenny Agostino as well. And we could talk about the players, but I think the makeup of the lineup is what's interesting. You know, Justin Bourne wrote today in The Athletic about, you know,

the Leafs really are truly doubling down on skill. This is one of the only teams that we've ever seen that's like, no, we're going to drop all these other guys. and despite our coach and last year the assistant coaches uh protest stations we are going for this this is the style we are playing and with spezza with shore with agassi you know with patan and with the way mike babcock complained about guys like patan last year and how he didn't have depth in the lineup or you know we need to have you know more depth which was a comment he made which was you know he later said didn't mean he didn't mean it to be passive aggressive but it sure

looked like that at the time um you know i i i'm wondering how is mike babcock going to take this lineup and how is he going to use them because even even with cadre gone and with tyson berry in and with alex kerfoot in he can't he can't pretend and he can't continue to use the lines equally the way he did last year and he can't try to make them play a grinding style because that's not what they do is mike bamcock open to this system is this something he's gonna is he gonna buy in well he doesn't have a choice that i see i mean you know i know there's the age gap and there's the stature gap and all that but i mean kyle dubas is his boss and the the boss along with the the front office makes the team and it's the coach's job to use them i i would say that

this will probably be the story of the early part of the year one way or another with the leases is how this group was deployed uh you know probably reading between the lines of the things mike says in his daily press briefings because you know that's been part of the discussion uh already with him and and just seeing you know how much he does buy in you know i think he wants to be the coach of the team and i still think it should be a pretty good team but you know does he get away maybe from some of the hard line matching that that that he's been fond of in the past i mean maybe that to me is probably the best thing you can have if you have four really good lines is that you don't have to worry so much within games you know at times when your fourth line

ends up against the first line on the other team you're not scrambling on the bench I mean that's the way Bruce Cassidy was handling the Bruins through much of the playoffs I covered their run from start to finish you know I don't know how much will change but he's famous for talking about first of all how you've got to change every year you've got to be a better version of yourself and you know this is even from a year ago a less physical lineup and I don't think we would have called the Leafs physical but this is not a team we expect to be finishing many checks I mean really outside of Jake Muzzin who we saw throw some some pretty big ones after the trade from Los Angeles last year you know there's just not many guys on this team that are known for that

And I don't think that Kyle Dubas is going to change his mind on August 20th and find a bruiser late in the summer or anything like that. I'm guessing this will be the makeup, basically, of the team. And so I think that there's a lot on Mike Babcock's shoulders to embrace it, to find a way to get the most out of it, because ultimately that's every coach's job in simple terms, is to take the players you're given and get the most out of them as a group. My fear here as a fan, and I think Steve and Jesse

and most Leafs Nation's fan will back me up on this. Obviously, the Leafs got rid of their entire third line from last year. Brown, Caudrey, Marleau are gone. But the issue becomes how they were used, how Freddie the Goat was used. And I'm concerned that, and I'm going to throw it all the way back to Detroit here, that Alex Kerfoot becomes just an abdicator and gets 20 minutes a night. And I, you know, like that is a genuine, I think, concern for Leaf fans. And it should be a concern for Leafs management.

And as much as you said it right, like, I mean, if you had Trevor Moore, Alex Kerfoot, and Kasperi Kapanen flying around and taking third-line minutes, you could do worse. The problem is, what happens when they start getting second- and first-line minutes because they, you know, the Leafs took too many penalties that game, and all of a sudden they're up in Leo Komarov 22-23 minutes a night territory? Man, even I don't think that'll happen. Like, is this a— You're really making it doomsday, Samario. But, I mean, we've seen it. We've seen it. That's the thing.

This is something we've seen before with this coach. And if he doesn't buy in, what is the recourse? Like if in December you're on this show, you've walked over from your apartment because you're a gem, and you're sitting in this room with us and we're talking about this, and we say, like, this ice time thing is still an issue, still not using this team the way it should be. Is Mike Babcock still a head coach? Well, this will be the season where his job becomes on the line if things go wrong. I mean, I don't think there's any question about that.

But, you know, there was more than a little smoke gathering at the end of the year that things were not all rosy, you know, among that relationship with Kyle Dubas. I think in terms of management's faith in him as a coach, ultimately they've chosen to bring him back. But, you know, they've also retained Sheldon Keefe with the Toronto Marlies. And further to that, they hired Dave Haxtell to be one of his assistants who coached last year and the last few years with the Philadelphia Flyers, which, you know, to me at minimum, it just suggests he could be in a short-term,

in-term kind of situation because he's someone who's handled that kind of job in the past. And so, you know, I think that there's a lot of pressure on Mike Babcock this year, no matter what the lineup looks like, to have a strong season, to show some signs of change, to strengthen his relationship with Kyle Dubas and buy in on some level a little bit more. You know, it showed up at a few notable moments last year. I mean, I can tell you that probably the most surprised I was all season, and I'm around the Leafs pretty much on a daily basis, was they made the trade for Muzzin during their all-star break slash bye week. You know, it was a couple days of anticipation before they had the first practice back from the bye week in Detroit, suburban Detroit.

And there was like a real, there was a real buzz around the team. I mean, Morgan Riley was giddy. He was telling a story about how his mom told him about the trade and they were immediately logging on NHL.com to figure out where it would all fit and how excited he was. And then Mike Batcock comes out and says, wow, you know, it's not perfect or something. Yeah, yeah. It felt like he had the tack and he was bursting the balloon a little bit. And, you know, there was a similar, although it's not the same thing, but with Nick Patan, you know, he got a new game in Vancouver, his hometown, played at the center that night. And, you know, after that game, Mike Babcock made a comment about, you know, having too small a fourth line.

You know, I just think that some of that stuff should be more muted this year, I would think. Maybe presenting a more united front, even if, you know, everything behind the scenes, I don't think with any team, to be fair, there's a natural tension between management and coaching staff. I mean, that exists in all 31 markets. It's just, you know, we really got some insight into it last year because, you know, it's something Mike Babcock would talk about sometimes without even being asked. So, you know, this is going to be – it's going to be a fascinating season because clearly, the way last year was, but this is win or bust for the Leafs.

I mean, you know, even getting to the second round, which I'm sure would excite people, but if they get to the second round and lose, you know, it's still not going to be seen as a positive. They've really got a five-year cup window starting this coming season. Basically, in my mind, the length of Matthews' contract. It obviously could be extended beyond that, but it involves a lot of assumptions that we can't make today about whether he'll stay, what the number will be, what's going to happen.

And so every year is really important right now. I think that they're borrowing that from the Raptors a little bit with the Kawhi Leonard trade. And it's not to say that Tyson Berry is in any way viewed by them as important as Kawhi Leonard was to the Raptors, but I think the Leafs are more willing to make that kind of trade because they recognize the value in even just having him for one season, what it could do for their fortunes, what that would mean.

And I think that they're in a little bit more of a risk-taker's mindset, and I think that that would extend to even Mike Babcock if things weren't going well for whatever reason, that his job is not guaranteed for another season, even though he's still got a couple years left on his deal. Thank you, Masayu Jiri. I feel like none of us are talking about the fact that the fired Flyers head coach is now in charge of the Leafs' defense.

And they weren't particularly great on defense when he was the Flyers' head coach, which is why he was fired. No, they weren't at all. What do you make of the Dave Haxtell signing? I don't really mind it, to be honest. I mean, I don't think it's as simple as you can look at his last defense and say, you know, so much of that is based on personnel and other things. You know, to me, he's a real thoughtful guy, Dave Haxtell.

One of the things he did after he was fired in Philadelphia is he went over to Sweden and spent a week behind the scenes with the Swedish national program to steal best practices from them. I mean, I think he's, you know, much like Paul McFarlane, their other assistant coach hired this offseason. You know, there's evidence here of maybe a little bit different of a thinker, someone that can challenge Mike Babcock behind the scenes, which is ultimately what you want from your coaching staff,

that, you know, everyone's ideas are kind of going into the mix. And, you know, I do like that he's been there before just as a bit of a voice for the head coach here, that he'll see things and understand things having served as a head coach before, which, remember, in the NHL level, DJ Smith and help me out with other assistants, I can see the guys. Jim Hiller. Jim Hiller, in a way that they didn't. You know, I just, I think a new mix is good for that coaching staff. The Leafs' previous staff was together for four years, I believe,

which is a long time not to at least have a change in the assistant ranks. And so, you know, I think that this will be a good thing. But, you know, the problem with an assistant coach, and there's more with this with the hockey team, but I'm not entirely sure what they do. And you don't really get a window into that, even being around the team that they're kept separate from the media. You know, I think his most important thing, actually,

will probably be the penalty kill because that's an area that's hurt the Leafs, in my estimation, in the playoffs the last few years. And, you know, I expect that'll be under his purview. And I think that that's where we'll get the truest gauge on, you know, how effective he is and how much he's helped in the coaching staff as a whole. Okay. Well, we've waited and we've waited and we've waited and we've taken up too much of your time,

so this is going to be the last question. Okay, Chris? Oh. I'm sorry that we have to ask you this, but there's a player who it was suggested many times by a member of the media and don't worry

we don't need to name him everybody knows that he'd be getting that offer sheet it's going to happen it's going to happen now it could still happen but this guy suggested $13 or $14 million and at that point you were like I'll eat my own shoe if that happens I know I kind of regret saying that we're just saying we put the invitation

out there last show if Mitch Marner does get a $14 million or a $13 million offer sheet, you're welcome to come eat your shoe on our show. We would love to live stream that. I think it'd be fun. I can think of no better place to do that. Yeah, all right.

Consider that invitation accepted then. But Chris, where do we stand with Mitch Marner? And I say we, where do Leafs Nation stand? I mean, obviously there's been a lot of negotiation done through the press. Darren Ferris has a playbook. It's rile up the fans against the team. It hasn't really worked.

A lot of people seem to be turning on Mitch Marner in his camp. Where do the Leafs stand? Sebastian Ajo obviously signs for nine, nine and a half. What's the number? How does this end? Well, I think the Ajo contract helps the Leafs, honestly. Eight and a half.

When you look at a guy, I think he had 83 points last year, Mitch, and 93. But that's a favorable comparison to the Leafs compared to some of the numbers we're hearing. My gut feel on this is that we're still going to be talking about it in September. and that the true deadline here is probably the start of the season, give or take a few days. You know, I hope that's not the case. It's not really – I think we're all kind of tired of the contract, the soap opera that's sort of been never-ending in Toronto.

But, you know, I just feel that that's the most likely outcome. You know, I still maintain that I think an offer sheet is unlikely. The Leafs are in a great position to match it, which is probably the best bit of work they've done, you know, in this last 10 days is that they put themselves in a position where they kept Kapanen and Janssen. They've remade the defense. They've made some moves.

I like their depth signings. I like getting Spets at 700,000. I think we didn't talk about him at all, but having a right-shot centerman is useful for draws on a certain side of the ice. Late in the game, for example, they were using Zach Hyman a lot in that position. I like what they've done this offseason.

With difficult situations, just in terms of their cap space, They've made improvements with only giving up a first-round pick and Nazem Khadri, which is a nothing. I don't mean to dismiss that, but I don't think it's hurt their chances too much to compete, and yet they're also in a great spot to sign Mitch. So I'm guessing the contract, I've been on record with this, is somewhere around $10 million in AAV.

I think a six-year term makes sense for the player and the team at some point when there's a give-and-take and they truly get to negotiating. And is that not what's happening right now? Is there just no give-and-take? I don't think so. You know, it doesn't seem like there's really been a whole lot of talk. I mean, it's not to mean they're not in touch.

It's just I don't sense, you know, negotiators tend to sort of signal the other negotiator when they're ready to make a deal. I don't think there's any urgency right now, especially from the martyr side. I mean, obviously, they wanted to have the conversations they can have in restricted free agency. They might still get their offer sheet. I mean, maybe I'm eating my shoe in two weeks on your show. It'd be a fun episode. But I just I don't think it makes sense. and it's not even a slight on Mitch Marner.

I just don't know how, you know, Artemi Panarin was a true free agent, and one of the better free agents we've seen, you know, that's a high-end guy. He didn't even get $13 million on the open market. I mean, who's going to pay Mitch Marner $13 million? I realize he's younger, you're buying his prime as opposed to the older years, the way the Rangers got with Panarin, but who's going to pay him $13 million and give up four first-round picks? I mean, it's just so punitive to teams that, you know,

I think the system has to change if we're going to see offer sheets or, or I think teams have to almost readjust and go after the mid tier players. You know, to me, that makes sense. There was probably a number you could get Casper captain on an offer sheet where the Leafs would say, do you know what? Not worth it for us to do that. It's going to, you know, have a ripple effect on our team. We'll take the draft pick or draft picks. But I just don't see a star player like Marner getting that offer sheet.

And so once that becomes kind of sinks into everyone's mind and once that possibility is is totally removed from the air you know it's up to Kyle Dubas and Darren Ferris and the Marner family to to find a solution here and usually you need a deadline for those kind of solutions when the sides are dug in and to me that deadline is not having him in camp and not having him for the first exhibition game and then ultimately the regular season does Mitch Marner want to miss regular season games given what he saw happen to his teammate given the Leafs cap picture all those things and i'm guessing that deal gets done on or about october 1st wow all right okay i'll tell you i'll eat i'll eat something tastier than a shoe if it gets done

in the meantime because then we don't have to talk about it and and the beauty of this contract once it's done i mean there'll always be some contract come and do but the leaps really have the core of their team locked in at that point uh for for a stretch of years and and the focus This then goes a lot more to other things other than the contractual status of the players. CJ, you can come on this show and have a hot, fresh Panago pizza. Yes, you can. Oh, man, I love pizza. Well, you'll love the Panago options that are available to you.

Chris, thank you so much. All right, so it's my shoe if it's a $13 million offer sheet. Right. If Marner just signs, I'm coming in and we're going to do a show and we're going to have some pizza. Your choice. And Crown Royal. And Crown Royal, yeah, if you want. Now, Chris.

We're all walking. Just a quick, one part of the calendar that we didn't get set before you go, because we know you're basically going for the summer. At what point does Darren Ferris come out and say, Mitch Marder's looking at KHL options? I just want to know when that comes up on the calendar. That'll be right around September 10th. Okay, perfect. Great. Thank you.

Chris Johnson. Just before training camp. At Reporter Chris on Twitter, but you already knew that, because if you're not following him, what are you doing with your life? Chris, we love you. We so appreciate you. Thank you for making time for us today. Yep, this was great, and I'm glad that Steve can breathe.

I was really worried about him. I even had separate correspondence with Mrs. Dangle over the weekend. I was told. That's funny. I was told. Was she genuinely concerned for your health? Oh, yeah. Every now and then, and I assume CJ did something along this line,

they approach Mrs. Dangle and they go, Is he really? And she goes, Yes. I had a high-ranking member of the Leafs organization ask me that. Actually? Actually. And then I said – Was it Shanahan?

No, it wasn't Shanahan. I think Shanahan knows. I don't think he would ask me, but there was somebody else, and I said yes. And they said, okay, all right. And they're like, but he's, like, cool otherwise. I'm like, oh, yeah, totally great. When I spoke to Shanahan at NBA Finals Media Day, he didn't – Not a big deal.

You know, right? Not to flex on all of y'all, but the reason he said yes to that wasn't because he felt obligated to. It's because he saw someone he couldn't outrun. There's no way I wasn't talking to Brendan Shanahan the second Wheelock dies. CJ, go have a nap. Yeah, buddy. Thank you. All right, guys.

Have a good one. Take care, buddy. Love you. So I do have to ask, Steve. Like, okay. Yeah. I also want to ask a Mitch Marner question here's the thing, for me

and I don't know if this feels the same for both of you for me it feels like I don't care as much, because I feel like the Leafs are, like Mitch Marner is a valuable, extremely valuable member of this team, but I look at the team as it stands, and they're still really good oh yeah

and I felt that, I guess with Nylander it was all new, the anxiety was new now, I got other things to distract me than Mitch Marner Is it because of Tyson Berry or your kid? Maybe it's both Maybe it's both So you're Baron Laris

And you're Zarin Warris I'm Maul Parner I'm Maul Parner You have to come to me And you have to tell me how Mitch Marner Deserves more money than a center who scores more goals and plays a better, a higher role on his team. Well, I say the comparables don't matter.

That's what they've been saying, anyway. And I say, no, that's entirely how this works. Right. Well, here's the problem now. Because if I'm Maul Parner, I'm not actually the agent. But what I'm saying to the agent is, well, the comparisons don't matter. Keep repeating that message. The thing is, is that a restricted free agent only has leverage in a situation where a team's desperate. Sebastian Ajo has far more leverage over the Carolina Hurricanes than the Marners and the Marner camp have over the Leafs.

Because the Leafs are already very, very good. And if you look at Nylander and Marner through their first two seasons, they're almost on the same track. Pretty darn close. So you can make the argument that maybe Nylander's not the player Marner is, and I would agree with you. Yes. But you could also say Nylander is far better than what we saw last year. And the Leafs are a far more balanced and, I think, a better team, quite frankly, than they were. Yes.

So you look at the Leafs and you go, okay, so now Mitch Marner, to me, has less leverage than even William Nylander did. And because that offer sheet is not coming, I mean, like, they know it now. Now it's out there. The offer sheet is not coming. Who's going to do it? Well, here. Can I be? Sebastian Ajo.

Where in Veris? Yes, where in Laris. Where in Laris. So Sebastian Ajo makes $8.4 million. Mitch Marner is asking for $2 million more than that. You're asking my client to sign for less than what he's worth? No, I'm asking you to sign for what you're worth. And the market is set around $8.4 million right now.

We both know my client is worth a lot more than that. You're asking my client to dive in front of a contract that says he is not worth what he is worth? He is not willing to dive in front of that. I'll tell you what he is willing to dive in front of. A puck with his face in Game 3 against the Boston Bruins. I'll tell you what he's willing to dive in front of. Zidane O'Chara, Jake Muzzin back when he was on the Kings, some of the hardest hitters

in the league, he is willing to dive in front of them. He is willing to crash the net. He is willing to pretend that his broken stick is not broken and then drop it when the puck goes the other way and skate by the bench and get a stick from the equipment manager and then set up, set up John Tavares 47 times. That's what he is willing to do. And if an offer sheet does not come his way,

we'll take our talents to the KHL. We'll go to Mitchelurg, Marnitogorsk and just form our own new KHL team and we'll have a life outside of the Toronto Maple Leafs. You want my client to sign for less than he is worth? You make me sick. Ask if the beating heart of the Toronto Maple Leafs should sign for less than what he's worth.

Can I throw this out there too? What? Darren Laris is on a tear right now, Adam. Remember when Darren Ferris called the Matthews contract a bad contract? It was! And now he wants the same contract for his client? Yes, because Austin Matthews,

the thing about his name is it's not Mitchell Marner. That is factual information. It is factual. Jesse, that's all I do. Alright, alright. I spit what I talk because all I do is spit facts. Okay, now we gotta call Eric Angles here.

Get a spit screen. Because we do need to talk about the one offer sheet that was actually made. The phony offer sheet. Yeah, it is kind of baloney. I've got a couple questions about this. Let's get Eric on the phone. We had to stack this show with other people who knew stuff

because I felt like it would be completely unfair of us to come at this show and just the three of us yammer on because really, honestly, when it comes to days like we've had in the last 48 hours, you need to go to the experts. And one of the most exciting things that happened in the NHL, everybody knows it, Montreal offer sheeting Sebastian Ajo, and here's the guy who's most tired about talking about it. Eric Engels from Sportsnet.

Eric, thanks so much for coming on, man. We really appreciate it. I'm not too tired yet. It's all good. Okay. He agreed to it. Screw him. So, I mean, obviously when the offer sheet is made, everybody's like, yes, finally someone did it.

Finally someone did it. Something. But there seems to be a, and I hesitate to use this term, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, But there seemed to be a bit of a calculated toothlessness to this because it was really it seemed like the Montreal Canadiens were testing Tom Dundon personally to say, will you really pay eleven point three million dollars this weekend to Sebastian Ajo? You really want to do that. And obviously, Sebastian signed the contract to come to Montreal. Carolina is now matched. What are your thoughts on how Montreal structured this initial offer to Sebastian Ajo? and was it actually meant to succeed or was it meant to just send a message?

Well, I think in their minds, if they had gone to another tier and offered a higher compensation for him, you know, it wasn't really going to make that much of a difference for Carolina. The big gamble that they took was that the signing bonuses in the first 12 months of the contract,

equaling $21.17 million, was going to be so unpalatable that it would force them into a difficult decision and potentially that they would take the compensation and not match the offer. If they had gone to that next tier and put in a higher offer on Ajo, could it have changed things?

From the signing bonus perspective, you're talking about an extra $3 or $4 million up front right away. From a salary perspective, you're talking about an extra $10 million bucks throughout the deal or however much money it would end up being i think the canadians really felt that they were comfortable with the number they put forth for ajo uh he was comfortable with it he signed it and uh they were really just just going on that bet that potentially tom dundon wouldn't want to pay that money up front um now we have the answer so uh everything else is still a

possibility and it got matched so now what and i and i already know your answer uh so it's definitely going to be another offer sheet right or is it going to be someone else eric yeah i don't i don't uh i don't really see them going down that road although i've learned in the last 48 hours it's uh not necessarily the best idea to try to handicap what mark burgevayne is going to do because I would have told you prior to free agency opening that I thought there was about a 1% chance he would throw an offer sheet at anybody. I don't suspect he'll go down that road again. I think what he said in the past about offer sheets

and paying top-end compensation for, say, a guy like Mitch Marner or Braden Point, it being upwards of the money you have to spend on him and also the four first-round picks you'd have to give up at that highest threshold. I just don't think he values the risk in that type of decision. So I don't see him going down that road. I won't discount it as a possibility, but I'd be really surprised. And, you know, at the end of the day, the Canadians didn't have a desperate needed center. Sure, they, you know, targeted Matt Duchesne and they targeted Sebastian Ajo

and their team becomes a better team with either one of those players on it. But they have depth at center that they haven't had in decades. And Yosemite Kakenyemi and Max Domi and Ryan Poehling and Phil Deneau and Jordan Wheel and go down the list,

Nick Suzuki who's on his way up. It wasn't such a desperate need that if they didn't get Ajo, they absolutely have to have a center. Doesn't mean they won't look to find one through other means, potentially through trade. But I still feel the biggest need they have

is on left defense and the biggest target on the market is jake gardner for that and he's still available so right i'm curious i'm curious to see where the canadians go next as much as anybody else is and i would suspect that they're not by any means done with the amount of cash space they have and with 23 players signed to their roster have you heard anything on the gardner front because you've been beating this drum for a little bit. And CJ keeps coming on our show and talking about how there is still a possibility Gardner comes back to the Leafs, presumably for free as an intern, I think. And I don't understand how that's going to work.

So have you actually heard anything on the Gardner front? I have. uh i've spoken to some sources and and and did today um i think cj is right about that i think you know jake gardner would like to remain in toronto i think toronto would like to keep him um but that said even if they move a contract or two out or or do some creative work which kyle dubas is certainly capable of um he'd be signing at a considerable discount i believe to what he could generate on the market. All that said, one of the other things that I discovered today

is that the term that Jake Gardner was hoping to get on the open market versus staying with the Leafs is not quite there right now on offer. That might have changed in the last number of hours. I know that the Canadians were a team that expressed interest into him. They definitely reached out to his agents, Pat Brisson and J.P. Barry. where they stand in that dossier right now is is not an entire mystery but it's it's not something that i can say with any uh certainty where they stand so it's it's it's compelling it's interesting i'm not sure what they're going to do on that front but i can't think of a better player

for them to add to address what is their most pressing need not even through trade because they'd be giving up assets to get players that have similar deficiencies to the ones that Gardner has. So Shane Gossespierre is a name that we know that the Canadians inquired on. T.J. Brody in Calgary, Nick Letty in New York, those are names that they were rumored to be pursuing. All those players are good players, but they also have the same issues that Gardner has been accused of having in toronto for years and you'd have to give up assets to get them and pay them so it's it's uh in my mind if i were the gm of the canadians i would pursue jake gardner and pursue him heavily and potentially get him done for for a deal that might be worth more than what anybody else is

willing to pay for him um but i don't run the canadians and just like you have to wait and see what they're going to do so i think uh you know mark bergevin after you know we hammered him a little bit in the whole pk for weber uh saga there but i actually think he's had a really good past couple years his last 24 months are pretty great yeah seriously um and we also know that ownership gets involved in certain teams moves i know jeff molson and bergevin have talked before i think that was a widely publicized reason why pk wasn't traded sooner at what point after the past couple summers does Jeff Molson just go to Bergevin and go dude spend my money because there's a certain Habs fan in the office at Sportsnet who said hey we signed him again and

it was just a Habs jersey with cap space on the back like at some point they have a good team at what point do they go dude I don't care who it is I don't care what you give them spend my money please well at no point is that going to be the case they are not looking at just frivolously spend on just anyone just for the sake of spending the money um they're in a good position in terms of what they embarked on in a reset in the summer of 2017 they have built what is by consensus a top five prospect pool if not the best prospect pool in hockey and they've got some really good talented players on their way and the depth of the pool uh with the picks that they've made in the last two, three years is very considerable.

So, you know, with a roster that finished with 96 points last year, minus Andrew Shaw and Nicolas Delorier, who went in cap-clearing moves to prepare for whatever else the Canadiens had planned, originally the Ajo offer sheet, you know, they're not in a desperate position to spend this money. All that said, Carey Price is 32 years old. or about to be. Shea Weber is 34 years old.

They clearly have an intention to make this roster better before next season. That, I think, is clear based on what they did yesterday with Ajo. And, you know, all the possibilities for them, well, not all of them, some of them have now been thrown out, but many possibilities still exist for them to improve their roster considerably. Interesting.

Boy. I mean, it's so fun to watch because any team with cap space, to me anyway, they're just the most fun teams. And you've got a lot of teams. Carolina. Carolina, Columbus. Florida's got a lot of space still, even after the Strauman and Bobrovsky deals. And you kind of go, like, any team with major cap space is going to be fun to watch

because you just don't know what they could do. I wonder, you know, Eric, there's a lot of noise out of Vegas about their cap situation. And apparently they can't get Nikita Gusev under contract because he wants $4 million a year for two years. The David Clarkson deal is nearing its end. Montreal's got the money to pay it. Is that an option for them? And obviously, you know, you said defense is a bit of an issue for them. But, you know, would it be worth it for them to use some of that cap space?

I mean, you could probably do this with Gardner and still do the Gusev deal, where you take on Clarkson's deal, you put him on LTIR, you grab a guy like Gusev who could be found money, it could be nothing. but you basically are able to grab a guy who could score you 40 to 50 points for basically nothing. Is that something that Montreal looks at with their cap space? Yeah, I think they're exploring every opportunity and certainly exploring ways to weaponize their cap space in a way they did last year

where they acquired Joel Armia from Winnipeg for taking on Steve Mason's $5 million cap hit and then buying him out. um it's one of those things that with the space they have uh they've been interested in doing though when bergman was asked about that around the draft he said that the opportunities hadn't really presented themselves will they present themselves now that 700 million dollars has been spent in the marketplace and teams are up against it and potentially looking to make other moves um for sure something that he's got to be out there looking at um you know one of the

interesting scenarios and kind of touched on this in my latest column at Sportsnet was presented by Elliott Friedman on Sunday where he basically said he wonders if the Canadians would look at taking Kyle Turris from Nashville since they'll be looking to clear some space after signing Matthew Shane. Turris is an interesting player if only for the fact that he had a very down year last year after two seasons of 50-plus points and topping out at 64 points a couple of seasons before that. He's got five years left on his deal at $6 million, if I'm not mistaken, as an AAV.

No signing bonus in that deal, by the way, just so you know. Could that be a team that they look at and say, hey, we'll take the entirety of Turris' contract and we'll take Turris because they're clearly targeting centers and potentially you could throw in a left-hand defenseman that can help us either now or down the line. So we know they just acquired two of them in the P.K. Subban deal, one of them a Montreal native in Jeremy Davies.

You know, it was speculation from Elliot in that column and it's speculation from me that it's something they could explore. But since we're talking about it and how to weaponize their cap space, that would be one way, right? It could be. What about a Patrick Laine? Winnipeg's still in trouble. We're not talking about it enough.

They're really up against it, and there has to be something that moves out of there. Yeah, I mean, again, I think when you look at some of the other RFAs that were targets for offer sheets, a lot of them are at that very top end where you'd have to give up. you'd have to make the compensation so high that the other team really would have to take it instead of matching. And speaking with Marc Bergevin at the beginning of last year, we sat down for an hour, and I just asked him his whole opinion on this, and he just explained that the parity of the league

doesn't allow a team to really take on the full weight of that risk, because you can acquire a player who you think fits well with your team, and all of a sudden they don't fit well, or they get injured and somebody else gets injured and you finish just out of the playoffs and then all of a sudden the lottery comes around and your first round pick that you're giving up in the deal goes from 13th overall to 2nd overall. It's a lot of risk to take on on top of spending such a high percentage of your cap on one single player. So I think that's part of the reason why the structure of the Ajo offer sheet wasn't at that max end and wasn't sacrificing extra picks and extra high-end picks

because I don't believe Bergevin considers that to be a real thing he'd consider doing. You know what? Okay. We talk about offer sheets, and that's all well and good. Montreal is in the middle they're in the middle of a drought right now and it's been multiple years so let me just ask you plainly is this the year Victor Mete finally scores a goal?

Yes we're not really concerned about that Victor Mete you know does all those does all those great things you know it's become a running joke certainly within the Canadians organization where they had a bet

going amongst the players when he'd get his first goal um i'm not worried about his offensive production and i would also add that he's a player that's been highly underestimated in terms of what he does in his own zone very very excellent defensive defenseman and has the speed and the puck moving ability to be an offensive contributor he's working very strongly on a shot um with a skills coach that works with brendan gallagher and helped him become a 30 goal scorer in the league and as he gets stronger and and a little bit older a little more mature with more experience um he won't just score one i think he'll score many so great player uh and and a developing player and one of the ones in montreal that they should be

really excited about especially considering what he's done already as a former fourth round pick and such a young player in the nhl and he's going to play behind jay gardner that's right um uh eric it's it's a pleasure as always and if i've got to ask one last question before we go montreal are they a playoff team finally this year i'll tell you in october okay all right let's see let's see what they do between now and then right now they're a team that was right on the bubble and easily could have made it they finished what was it four points behind the leafs um you know it's not like they're incapable of doing it but let's be honest now that andrew shaw has been removed from the equation a player that scored if i'm not mistaken 52 points for them last year

um you know it's hard to argue that their roster is better than the one that finished the season so they've got a boatload of cap space they have options in front of them let's see what they do before i make any uh type of statements that i'll get in trouble for love it eric we will be checking back in with you on that. Okay? Okay. All right. Hey, thanks so much for your time.

We really appreciate it. Eric Engel, Sportsnet.ca. New post is up today, so check that out. And, Eric, if we don't talk to you all summer, have a great one. Steve, you want to add something? I just want to end with this. Can you tell everyone what offer sheet in French is? Yeah, it's offre hostile.

Whoever came up with the term really got it right. Oh, yeah. Hostile offer. I love it. Hostile offer is a much more fitting term than offer-see, which is basically, you know, lawyer talk, CBA lingo. Yeah. Whoever nailed that one down, I want to say it was Yvon Petnot who originally called it that, but I can't say for sure. Maybe we'll find out, and I'll get back to you on that.

All right. Eric, thank you so much for your time, and congrats on a great season. so you know unbelievable with montreal the the the way the dialogue in them has changed in the last few years like you have to think that mark bergevin was a a bad move away from losing his job and now you got to think wow montreal that's an up-and-coming franchise there's they're really i mean yes they got a bit of a time limit yes you got shea weber and and carrie price who are getting older but if carrie price is anything like henrik lundqvist that might not matter and he had a hell of a bounce back season and i mean you gotta draft well and you also gotta have some good fortune and how was cole caulfield available yeah i couldn't

believe that pick and i don't think they could either no i think they fell over they must have fallen off the chairs and adding him to suzuki and paling is so much better than i thought and oh yeah it's annoying man now if only they ever who would have thought we'd be talking about why the Montreal Canadiens spending money. Like, I was stunned. Yeah. And we kept,

oh, it's for Tavares. Ah, it's for Duchesne. Ah, it's for... Spend it! Spend something, anything. It was also Ryan O'Reilly for a while, too. They should have spent it

last season. They don't know if they took advantage of it the same way. But, you know, one team that I was paying particular attention to yesterday, and this is why,

I mean, we've taken far too long to have Andy back on, but Andy Graziano, thank you so much for joining us. We have got to talk about the New York Islanders. Andy, I mean, you've been following them forever.

You know, you're on the biggest sports station in New York talking about them all the time. What did you think of yesterday after such an incredible season? First place, incredible story with Robin Leonard. Sorry, second place, I guess. And then yesterday, you know, they swing and miss on Panarin. They swing and miss on Bobrovsky. and, you know, like, what are your thoughts and what's the feeling with Islander fans today

about how yesterday went? The feeling with Islander fans is not good. I'll say that. Twitter becomes a very interesting place on July 1st. You guys know that. And yesterday was probably the most interesting because I think everyone had these exceptional expectations for Lou Lamarillo coming into his now second offseason

with the club and especially coming off the comments that Barry Trotz made after they got swept out of the playoffs by the Carolina Hurricanes about what was evident in everybody's eyes, and that's the need to inject more offense into the lineup. You know, Barry came in and just made them so defensive short, led them to go from worst to first and goals against for the first time in a bazillion years, actually a hundred, but I like to exaggerate at times. And so, yes, that was a dramatic turnaround,

and what Mitch Korn was able to do with Robin Leonard was remarkable, and you had all these remarkable stories, but if you noticed, they were all on one side of the ice. And on the other side of the ice, they really struggled to score at times, and it hurt them. Obviously, we saw that against Carolina. It hurt them tremendously. So the expectations were high,

especially when a guy as respected and as connected as McKenzie tweets out that the Islanders are frontrunners for Panarin the night before when there's still 12 hours to go. That was a risky tweet. I'll just say that as a risky tweet. We all know better, and Bob's a pro, so I defer to that, obviously. He's in the majors while I'm still in single A, so I defer to that. What made it risky for you?

I don't even think the Rangers came off their offer much. They were always in that 11 to 11.25 range, so they only came up like $250,000, $300,000. It wasn't much that they had to come up to snag Panarin away from the Islanders, and I think the fact that it was the Rangers just drove Islander fans into an absolute, insane, almost lucid state. They were typing and didn't even know what they were typing. But with Lou, you have to ask the questions,

and I'll be publishing a column this week on WFAN about this, And, you know, the NHL has changed so much, guys. We've seen it. The game has gotten faster. It's gotten quicker. It's all about speed now. It's all about generating speed through the neutral zone. And it's all about offensive attack.

And, yeah, the defensive purists will argue and, you know, punch me in the face for shying away from that aspect of the game, which is still very prevalent, obviously. But, look, you want to win, you've got to score in this league. And you need fast players to do that and talented, skilled players. And the Islanders have a shortage of that. and you have to wonder if Lou is trying to build a team in 2019 with 1999 methods. Well, this is, sorry, I just, I had to calculate this to make sure it was real. I have a theory as to why Lou Lamorello was old school. Can I tell you it?

It's your show, man. Because the last time the Leafs won the Stanley Cup, Lou Lammarello was almost a quarter century old. He could have legally drank at the cup parade. He would have been the same age. He's been a legal adult for multiple Leafs cups. He would have been the same age. He would have been older than we were when we started this podcast.

Oh, yes. I think we were 24, 25. We were 25? 25? Yeah, something like that. Crazy. Crazy to think. Now you guys are making me feel old.

It was a while ago for us too I just want to know First game the Rangers Play against the Islanders In Brooklyn Which plastic animal will it be Or will it just be bread It'll be loaves of wonder

You already know the answer to that question The Islander fans are pretty on top of that already I think Wonder Bread in this area Is already sold out It's already sold out I mean Islanders fans took a lot of grief For Tavares' return But, like, it wasn't just the Plastic Snakes.

Like, man, they made songs, and there was choreography, I'm pretty sure, and everyone painted their faces. I think, in all honesty, Steve, that was tepid. That could have gone a lot worse. Oh, I know. That could have gone a lot worse. It was annoying how fun it was. Yeah, and it could have been worse.

Like, imagine that had happened in Buffalo. Then I think, you know, like with Bills fans, you know, or Eagles fans. Right, right, right. Get the tables. There wouldn't be a table left in Buffalo I hated how much I loved The reaction to Tavares coming back But with Andy

When it comes to Lou Do you view yesterday as a failure Because yes Bob McKenzie did tweet out what he tweeted And I want to ask you A bit of a part one part two question First off what you found Edgy or risky About that tweet with Bob

I think I know the answer but I still want to hear yours Second I want to know What is the view of Lou Lammarello, and why do you think Panarin and Bobrovsky don't end up on the island? Well, I'll answer the easy question first with Bobrovsky, and it's $10 million. There was no way in heaven that any of us could have foreseen Sergei Bobrovsky snagging a $10 million contract. Let's face it. That is a lot of dough. I don't like going high dollar amount or high term on a goaltender.

I just don't. I think it's too volatile of a position, in my opinion. So risky. To see Bobrovsky, I honestly thought he was going to be in the 8, 8.5 range. I didn't even dream of it being 10. I saw that and literally was like, wow. That literally took me by surprise. So that's the reason why I think the Islanders were out on Bobrovsky really early.

I think that maybe what Luke kind of tried to do was one of those, you know, here's a bucket load of money, you guys split it how you want. You know what I mean? Like he might have said, thinking about what the Islanders' cap situation was going into yesterday, he might have said, here's $20 million, you guys can split it as you want. Obviously with Panarin taking, let's say, 12, the Islanders offer what actually is as high as 12.5.

Wow. Right, which would have left Swarovski in that 8 range that I had. Oh, yeah, they went up to 12.5 on Panarin, 7 by 12.5. And he still said no. So a million less dollars per year for seven years. I wish I could do that. Yeah, no kidding. Go play for the Rangers.

And I think that that whole two-arena circus has a lot to do with it also. And I'd like to think in today's day and age, let's face it, with these players, you have to sell them. You have to be a salesman more than a businessman at this point. You have to sell them on the city. You've got to sell them on the schools. You've got to sell them on the area. You've got to sell their wife.

You've got to sell their kids. You've got to sell their grandmother. You've got to sell the nanny. You've got to sell. And I'm not sure that that's – what I've heard, that's not Lou's strong suit. Lou is kind of like a, here's 7 by 12 and a half, take it or leave it. You know, he doesn't really go out of his way to sell to the player on why he should come there.

And I think if you're a Temi Panarin, and like I said, you're looking at that two-arena circus. You know, they haven't even broken ground on Belmont yet. They will be doing that. So that's going to happen, but they haven't yet. So that's still, what, three years down the road? And at the end of the day, I just don't think Lou made it attractive enough. It's not just about the money.

You know, maybe, again, back in Lou's day, when he was in his heyday, it wasn't just about the money. He threw a bucket load of money at a guy who came over. Now things have changed, and I worry about the fact that Lou doesn't seem to be willing to adapt to those changes or conform to those changes or get himself up to speed, you know, however you want to say it. It just seems to me like that's the prevailing scenario right now around the Islanders and Lou Lamarillo.

In reference to McKenzie, I've kind of always felt like that. Ever since I got into this business eight years ago, I kind of felt like that in terms of media. It's almost like, I think I've talked to Steve about this too, it's almost like trade rumors. Trade rumors are very dangerous because the trade market is, as we all know, extremely volatile. A guy that's available now won't be available in 10 minutes.

or vice versa so it's it's really hard to like everyone always asks me on twitter what are you hearing the latest trade rumors the islanders going after anybody and it's like even though sometimes i might have an idea it's a dangerous game to play because you could really really easily be wrong and you know you can and not the problem you know look bob mckenzie's not going to lose any credibility or any sleep for that matter as he shouldn't over tweeting that out because it's honestly what he felt at the time and i do believe based on the dollar offers that were out there it seemed like a logical way to go well how could you not have 12 and a half million dollars right right would it have been something i would have done probably not but that's why again i'm

on the bottom and bob's a top feeder that's why you know what i mean if if i would have did that i would have lost all my credibility which is why i try to stay away from stuff like that only if I'm really 100% sure, well, I put something out there. That's why when I got the call yesterday at roughly 11.35 a.m. that Panarin did sign with the Rangers, I put it out there. And that's exactly what happened. So that's where we're at. Well, I was going to say, we have Andy Graziano on for what is now his annual eulogy of the New York Islanders.

Andy, by the way, I hate the fact that it's been an entire year. It's been a bit of a shit show behind the scenes here for the last year. It is our fault. We love you. We're going to have you on more, and I'm so sorry. I just want to apologize. I will say, and I have to get this out there. I have to get this out there for the 20 people that are listening to me babble right now.

Adam, congratulations on the Virgin Radio stuff, obviously, and more importantly, the baby. Thank you, buddy. I really appreciate that. That is terrific news. I also saw that picture you tweeted of you and the baby with your wife sleeping on the couch in the background. And she looked more comfortable than I think I've ever been in my entire life. And I was very jealous. I was very jealous of that.

And, Steve, to you, I took your book with me on vacation to St. Martin a couple weeks ago. And I think I finished it in two and a half days. I love it. Why does everyone read faster than me? Sorry. Wait, wait, sorry. Say how good my book was again. Shut up, Steve.

No, it was. Honestly, I'm not just saying this because I'm on your show. I'm not just saying this because we're friends. It was absolutely phenomenal. It was honestly one of the best hockey books I've ever read. It just engaged me from the first page, and I didn't put it down. Well, there you go, man. Damn, Andy.

So the eulogy. I'm going to cry, man. This is really nice. That's the other stuff. Yeah, first of all, Jesus, thanks, dude. I wasn't fishing for compliments there. No, I know. But, listen, last year, it was a very somber occasion, and John Tavares had just left.

Well, it wasn't just that John Tavares left, it's that every single decision they made seemed like a bad one. Bringing Matt Martin back, and that cap hit. Leo Komarov is a great person and a great player. Holy smokes, that's a lot of money. Valtteri Filippo, holy smokes, that's a lot of money. And Robin Leonard seemed like a kid walking up to the counter. His parents were trying to teach him how to pay for stuff.

What can I get for this many? And he turned into a Vesna candidate. So I guess, basically, after last year worked out perfectly fine, after it seemed like it was going to be miserable, what to you seems to be different about this year? i think it started for me at the draft right here i am sitting there watching the draft which i thought was one of the most boring things i've probably ever seen in my entire life a lot of boring things awful you're so right it was just i thought the award show honestly was one of the

best i've seen in a while on the flip side which is kind of funny because kind of like i usually hate the award show and i thought that was actually good this year um for the draft i'm sitting there watching the draft, and, you know, comes to the Islanders' pick, and I'm seeing Tomasino, and I'm seeing Suzuki fall for them, and I'm like, wow, this is, like, awesome, right? They're not only guys that can skate, as we said before, in a league that's become all about skating and agility and speed, not only can they skate, but they're centers.

And if there's one thing the Islanders are ridiculously poor on, it's center depth in the organization. They have none. Like, none. So I'm like, that's got to be the pick, right? What does he do? He turns around and drafts a guy who, granted, was fighting injuries, which is why he fell.

I mean, a lot of the mocks had him in, like, the mid-40s, and that was because he was hurt. So, you know, he had some pretty serious injuries to fight through. But how could you not? I mean, he wasn't even – even if he's healthy, I don't think – even if you go on the theory that you take the best available player, which I don't, I think you only do that if you've solved your organizational need first and the organizational need was a center.

And so not only didn't they go for the organizational need, but they didn't even take in a lot of people's estimation, not just mine, the best player available. Right. And right then I'm like, what is going on? Like, what, what, like, what? And now to follow that up with yesterday's situation, you know, the whole letter thing, too. Yeah, I wanted to ask about that. The Islanders, you know, yeah, I mean, I got reports that the Islanders offered him two years at $5 million AAV, and that Leonard comes out to the Chicago media and says, I was never offered anything.

And then I was told later that, well, Lou made an offer that he thought was fair, and when Leonard didn't get back to him right away, Lou just literally walked away from the whole thing. He said, okay, I'm done with you. Wow. Even though, you know, knowing in the back of his mind that he had his sights set on Barlamov the whole time, because Barlamov's agent is also Ilya Sorokin's agent, who, as you guys know, the Islanders have been dying to get over here from the KHL. That's a whole other story because I'm not a big KHL believer that, you know,

big goaltender numbers in the KHL, I'm not a believer that they translated to the NHL. So we haven't seen a lot of that situation going on. And then you have Leonard leaving, and then you have him circling back to Anders Lee, who he didn't want to give seven years to, didn't want to give seven or eight years to. He was offering them five. And now all of a sudden, seemingly to save face, he all of a sudden is comfortable going seven years on Anders Lee, who's a terrific player and a terrific captain and great in that room.

But we've seen those power forwards. I'm not sure that seven-year contract's going to hold up so well. I mean, why do you think the Flyers of all teams only gave five to James Van Rensdijk, who I think is a fair comparable to Anders Lee? Yeah. It's just been like one thing after another lately that really has me scratching my head as to, look, I said it when I was on this show last year with you guys,

Lula Murillo seems to me like he'd be a great boss, but it's not looking like he's a good GM. So Simon Holmstrom is the guy you're talking about in terms of the draft, correct? Yeah, he took a 23rd, yep. Yep, and so, you know, he's from the Swedish elite, so I just wanted, for anybody that missed what that pick was, it's Simon Holmstrom, you can check him out. But, you know, that was the thing with the thing with Anders Lee and and and Robin Leonard is this.

I mean, we had I believe it was Anders Lee's agent who was on Twitter today saying Anders Lee was never going to leave. They were always going to work something out. I don't necessarily believe that that's the case. If you've got Panara coming in at twelve and a half, how is Anders Lee ever going to fit in at seven million or six million or five million? Like, I don't think I don't think that that was the case. and maybe that's the agent trying to save face for the Islanders organization. Why is it that with such a feel-good story with Robin Leonard that it ended so poorly?

Like, what is it about, is it that Lou is so cold that there's no room for nuance here in his relationships with these players? Or is it that he genuinely thought, wow, we got lucky with Robin Leonard for one season, but I don't believe in this any further? And to that point, how much do you trust that he actually believes in, sorry, yeah, how much do you trust that he believes in Anders Lee if he

was so willing to make him wait until way late yesterday after Panarin goes, now I'm going to be a ranger, to bring him back? Yeah, see, I don't conversely with what we said about how Lamarillo was all of a sudden comfortably with seven years on Lee, I don't think Lee

all of a sudden would have been comfortable taking four years at six million per if the Islanders had signed Panarin. So I don't believe Neil Sheehy's tweet for one minute. I think that There definitely is some damage control being done there. Because let's face it, Lee didn't really have many other options, right? What other options did Lee have?

Minnesota, who was thought to be in the game, went with Matt Zuccarillo. Nashville, who was thought maybe players in honors, Lee went through money at Matt Duchesne. Montreal, through the offer sheet of Sebastian Ajo. Colorado, I heard, was only going five years term on Lee. He wasn't getting seven years from Colorado. So my point there is, you know, Lammarillo still had leverage there. Oh.

Right? So yet he still caved to the seven years. So it seems like a little bit of a save-face situation there, in my opinion. And, you know, I think, look, I'm never going to – I could never in my position discredit what Lou Lammarillo has done in the game of hockey and how far he's come in the game of hockey and his savvy and his knowledge and his expertise. I can never, ever, ever in my wildest dreams discredit that.

However, I do think that Lou is a little cold and callous and, you know, rough around the edges, let's call it. And I do believe some of the things I'm hearing about, it's my way or the highway. It's take it or leave it. You know, there's really no room for negotiation there. And as we said before, in this day and age, that hurts. But now I understood a little bit because that's a touchy situation with his mental issues and with his addiction issues. You know, I have lived with for a long time people, lived and loved people with addiction issues who are now clean and sober. And it's literally a day-to-day battle.

It's never something that you defeat. So I think that from a business perspective, you know, Lou had to keep that in mind. You know, it's very risky, not just from an on-ice performance perspective, but from a personal perspective, to be giving, it sucks to say this, but it's true, you know, to give a guy like Robin Leonard a four- or five-year deal in his situation. It's, from a business standpoint, I don't think that's great business. But at the same time, you know, because Robin wants to take a couple of days to maybe think about your initial offer, you just, because he didn't come back to you on your timeline, you just drop him like a bad habit. And a guy who was nominated for the Vesna Trophy. Like, this isn't just a goal you had a good season. Yeah.

Yeah. Like, it was the ultimate feel-good story that ends so poorly. Absolutely. Yeah. And why would you not want him to continue his working relationship that he had with Mitch Korn? Right? Yes. Exactly.

I mean, who literally turned his career around. Now, Korn also obviously has a relationship with Varlamov. But let's not forget, guys, two years ago, Varlamov seriously tore up his groin, too. No, we're not talking about a guy who's been exactly stellar in the health department. Yeah, and four years they give him? I mean, like, are we not? Four years and $5 million per. And a no-trade clause.

Oh, I didn't know that. Now, is that? Oh, yeah. There's seven Islanders right now with a no-trade or modified no-movement clause. Seven. And they all have to be protected, do they not? Come Seattle, do they not? Or is it no moves?

That is correct. Now we're getting into painful. We're getting into painful conversations That we get to have I'm not sure which one it is A year from now Now you're going to make me look it up As soon as we get off

I'm looking Sorry I was trying to look up stats there On my phone You keep bringing up Mitch Korn and Robin Leonard's Relationship And there's a saying that's been brought up very often And that's don't mess with happy I believe the saying is

Don't fuck with happy. Well, you know, we haven't swore yet on today's show, but there it is. Well, for us married guys, too, it's happy wife, happy life. True that. There you go. True that. Very, very, very true. And unhappy husband, well, you deal with that.

That's your problem. Well, that sounds like a you problem. I look at Simeon Varlamov, even if he returns to form, and let's say this guy throws up a ridiculous 9-20. So he's like 14-15 Varlamov, right? Like years ago. Yeah. Years ago.

Yeah. What are the sheer odds the Islanders get better goaltending than they did last year? Forget Leonard, who I believe was over 9-30. Which is crazy. Thomas Grice. I keep going back to this as part of the Islanders story. Thomas Grice, two years ago, was one of the worst regular goalies in the National Hockey League. Yes.

And he put up a 9-30. What are the sheer odds the Islanders' goaltending is better this year than next? That, to me, is the area they take the biggest hit. And here's what worries me, too, Steve, right? Because they still haven't, as we said, they still haven't gotten better offensively. So they're still pretty much status quo right now with probably a little more of a question in goal, as you just said. Their power play is still not improved. And if you really believe that the Islanders are going to play to a 104-105 PDO

for the first 60 games of the season like they did last year, then okay, maybe you're feeling a little comfortable. You're not feeling so bad today. I don't think that's the case. That's like asking Lightning to strike twice in the same spot. As you said, their save percentage was extremely high. Their shooting percentage was extremely high. They were literally close to, like they were flirting with a 105 PDO

like 50 games in and that's extremely lucky yes extremely lucky now i'm not a huge analytics guy i think there's a place for it i just don't think it should be overused no i think the eye test is always to me the most dependable but they they were getting very very lucky the first 50 games of the year 60 games of the year if that's and if you're telling me you're banking on that happening again and you're getting into you're getting into rough waters there with me get into leafs territory at that point uh i was thinking hey let me tell you something kyle dubas has done a damn good job so far well so far so far but uh the summer is young by the whole marner thing and i know you got to get the whole bar i don't know how he's going to do the marner thing still but

well i i think we're about to cross paths a little bit here because you were talking about how maybe Lou can be a little callous I mean tendering an offer sheet is one of the most cold-blooded things you can do in this league I knew that was going to come up It's been the boogeyman that a lot of Islanders fans have been throwing

at me on Twitter like, ooh, are you scared? I mean It would be really, honestly, I feel like it would be really good for the Leafs if Marner signs an offer sheet somewhere and goes I really do I bet you do, this takes the four picks too Oh, yeah.

Well, it could be very interesting. But I was just, it's been in the back of my mind, the Islanders in particular, that it could happen. Because, you know, the sadistic part of me was like, ah, Vanders Lee leaves, that's going to be hilarious. And then I'm like, no, because they'll have way too much money to spend. Do you think that's the next step? Offer sheet? Well, honestly, I don't. You know, I was never a big offer sheet guy, and I still think the whole Sebastian Ajo thing was a...

I'm convinced that Waddell just wanted to go on vacation with his family and pay Bergevin to take care of the contract. Right? That's exactly what happened. I don't think that was a real... that wasn't an offer sheet where you were like, wow, you know, the Hurricanes might not match this. You knew they were matching from the moment they announced it. Yeah. So, I'm still not, the Islanders right now are sitting with a little shy of $10 million in cap, right? So, you figure, next year, the restrictive free agents include Matt Barzal, Ryan Pollock, and Devin Tate. So, even if they were to move Nick Letty for draft picks, just unload him for salary reasons,

even if they were to move Thomas Hickey as well for draft picks, just to get the salary benefit, They're still only up to, like, 18. So are you really going to throw 12 of that at Marner, leaving yourself with six with those guys coming up on RFA next year? I don't see it. Boy, could be fun, though. Could be a lot of fun. I'm more curious from that perspective to seeing how Dubas matches it

rather than waiting for Lamarillo to drop the hammer on Dubas' head. I'm waiting to see how Dubas handles it. I mean, right now he's sitting with, like, 11 million. He's got to get Kerfoot and CeCe under contract, and he's got Marner sitting out there. But they've got Horton's LTIR, right? So that'll push him over. That's the part that people aren't mentioning is that it's more like $16 million. Yeah.

Okay, okay. So that's the part where it's like, okay. It's still tight. Yeah, oh, it's tight. But if you're a good team, you shouldn't be tight. Yeah, well, CeCe's not going to get a lot. I'm not sure what Kerfoot's going to get. They say $3 million.

CeCe's $4.5 million. CeCe's going to get $4.5 million. Yeah, it's crazy. I still don't understand how that works. I have a conspiracy theory that we think that Cody Ceci... I personally think he never plays for the Leafs. I think they sign him to a contract that is front-loaded, so they give him 3.8 as a signing bonus,

and then he's an $800,000 player with a 4.5. I don't think he ever plays. I have a hard time believing the largest analytics staff in hockey acquired Cody Ceci and Ben Harper and went, this is good, I am glad. Well, I don't think they thought it was good, but I think it was like better than Zaitsev. Better than five years of Zaitsev.

So CeCe does get that and Kerfoot gets three. Now you're at seven. Now you're back down to like nine left. But if you get... It's tight, I mean... If you get... Now you're seeing why Dubas is digging in, right?

If you get CeCe at three... If you get CeCe at 4-5 and you give him that $3.8 million signing bonus and then fire him off to a team that needs to hit the floor, maybe back to Ottawa. Ottawa, seriously! Like, I think...

Back to Ottawa, yeah. Yeah, for Shabbat. For Brant's room. For Connor Brown back. There are so many ways we can go with this. It's so much fun. Oh, it's crazy. It's crazy fun.

Unlimited potential here. What do you think the Islanders are this year? And, Andy, I really mean that. Because, like you said, they were flirting with pretty high PDO there for 50 or 60 games. They outperformed when anybody could have thought it was supposed to be a retooling year. Nearly won the Metro. And, yeah, and, like, performances of a lifetime out of guys like Val Philpula, too. Like, forget the goaltending for a second.

Val Philpula, the resurgence of him. What are they next year? With the Rangers probably being pretty good again. With Pittsburgh bound and determined to destroy itself. I don't know what they're doing there. It's like Pittsburgh's like, you know what? We need to give everybody else a chance. We're tired of being this good.

Let's sign Brandon Tanev to six years. Yeah, I don't know what that would be. They're having a very merry unbirthday. And Washington's giving Richard Ponick term. I don't understand what's happening, but I feel like the Islanders still have a really great shot in the Metro. Are they as good? And do they make the playoffs in a top two, top three position again?

I'm going to, I mean, right now, and again, this is a question that I'll answer on July 2nd with a lot of summer left to go. And because I think that right now, let's face it, with the free agent market looking the way it is, Lemerill's only option right now is to dig into the trade market. That's the only way he's going to find scoring at this point. And you're hoping that you can swing a good deal

for Nikolai Ehlers, a type like Mike Hoffman, who I think would help. It's easier said than done, right? We're not all sitting on our PS4s just hitting the Xbox. Is that a shot? You know, Lou,

let's face it, Lou's trade history is not that great either. So, So it's going to be interesting to see if he can swing that deal to get that offensive help. I think as the Islanders are constructed today, I just think it's asking an awful lot for this team to get that lucky again and to have that many guys have career years. Casey Zizekas, is he going to be able to do what he did last year?

They don't have Leonard anymore. Are they going to be able to play the same tight defensive structure under Trost if they didn't get those bounces? Where's the secondary scoring going to come from? You know, how do they inject a guy like Oliver Wallstrom in the lineup finally or a Kiefer Bellows? How do they perform? You know, looking at their lineup today as it currently is,

I'm going to lean towards, you know, maybe a wild card team right now. Okay. Could be. I mean, that gets you to the second round, apparently, like at very least these days. Ridiculous. That's why the fans were so upset last year at the trade deadline when Lou struck out, right?

because he was said to be so laser-focused on Mark Stone, and then when Stone goes to Vegas at a quarter to three, he's got no time to circle back to anything. And last year, with all those big teams getting knocked out in the first round, it was a tremendous opportunity for a lot of teams, I think, to take that step and maybe get a shot. And, you know, it didn't work out for them. It was just mentioned that Lou Lamorello's trade history is a little bit spotty,

and I was trying to think of his greatest hits, and I realized... Phaneuf, right? Getting rid of Phaneuf's cap hit. Yeah, that was bloody wizardry. Oh, boy. But what I was trying to... That might be the only one, though. You know what, though? On a similar vein, I was trying to think of his greatest hits.

I did not think of Phaneuf. I was thinking back to the Devils. The cornerstones of that dynasty were Brodeur, Niedermeyer, Stevens. and they all came to New Jersey as a result of unabashed stupidity. Trevor Kidd was selected ahead of Martin Berger in that draft. The Leafs decided to give their first round pick over a year ahead of time to the New Jersey Devils and they stunk unexpectedly, which is the worst position to be in.

So they gifted Scott Niedermeyer to the Devils, and Scott Stevens became a Devil because whoever the GM of the St. Louis Blues was at the time, I can't remember, literally did not know the rules. That was the Shatterhand thing, right? Yes, yes. For those of you who don't know about that, look it up. It's hilarious. One of those, it's like 90s NHL, man. Crazy. Crazy time. Well, absolutely, yeah. I mean, we think things are crazy now.

Back then it was like the Wild West. Absolutely nuts. Long story short, Brendan Shanahan was given an offer sheet by the Blues who had just offer sheeted Scott Stevens away from the Capitals, I think, the year before. So they offer sheeted back-to-back years. And so the Devils went, all right, you offer sheeted Brendan Shanahan. Picks, please.

and the St. Louis Blues went, we do not have them. And so Lou Lamorello took them to court because that's really stupid. And he just stubbornly was like, compensation will be Scott Stevens. And they said no. Right, and I think what you're saying, Steve,

is so great because I think that when people turn around and they proclaim a GM to be great or a Hall of Famer or he's the best. Why, though? It's capitalizing on stupidity. Right? Is it because the team that you were GM of won Cups? But why did they win Cups?

As you just described, the Devils were basically gifted Martin Brodeur, Scott Niedermeyer, and Scott Stevens, which in turn, under Jacques Lemaire's system, led them to the Stanley Cups, right? That's when they introduced the neutral zone trap, and they started playing, you know, lockdown defensive hockey. Unless you have a terrific record that people like us can refer to in terms of trading and free agent acquisitions.

How can you really say that? It's a tough thing to proclaim. Andy, I say all that to say this. I don't know how to salvage the New York Islander summer, but I'm positive it starts with a phone call to the Minnesota Wild. Yes! I am positive. If you've made your career on capitalizing on stupidity,

you call Paul Fenton immediately. Right away. Speed dial that guy. He's out of his mind. Apparently the go-to for Garth Snow was Chiarelli, right? Yeah. Yes. We've got to find his go-to now.

Yes. Imagine being Garth Snow's punching bag. Oh, my God. Awful. Absolutely awful. Find the bad GMs and call them every day. Boy, oh, boy. Right, right.

That poor chap, that just defines Peter Chiarelli's relationship with Garth Snow, defines Chiarelli's history as a GM in the National Hockey League. Well, my favorite part is now he's with the Canucks, so that just makes us all happy. Allegedly. Supposedly, that's not official. Allegedly. Oh, man. Hey, Andy, one last thing we have to do before we wrap it up.

And again, we're going to check in with you again a lot more often because the Isles, to me, are going to be one of the stories of the NHL this year that are going to be fun. Yeah, and you complimented my book. I want to ask you more about you just on a quick note here. Who is, guys, and Andy, I don't expect you to answer this, but I actually want to get your answer on it anyway. Anyway, Steve, Jesse, who's the most popular personality on this podcast? Who's the most popular personality? On this show with our listeners. Who's the most popular?

Are you really going to make me answer this question? I'm going to make you answer it because there's a reason why I think you'll all get it wrong. Well, I don't know. I'm going to guess because I don't know anything about him, and it's really you two guys at the forefront of the show. I'm going to say it's probably Jesse, right? Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

I think it's Steve because his name is on the show. No. No. You don't get angry tweets, Jesse. No one's ever been like, I don't like what he brings to the show. I did get an angry tweet that said, this is an angry tweet because I never get them. Yes. Yes.

You got a novelty angry tweet. It's always the guy behind the scenes that's the MVP. Yes. And in this case, it is. But sorry, Jesse, you are not the most popular on-air personality at the Steve Dangle podcast. The most popular on-air personality of the Steve Dangle podcast is Mike Francesa. That's true. Oh, no.

Adam nailed it. I gotta ask because the internet loves Mike. We love Mike because he's just out there and outrageous. You work at the same station. I'm not sure how often you guys cross paths. because, you know, listen, we've worked with sports radio personalities who are, like, godly, like Bob McCown was, and you're like, I'm afraid to say anything to him.

What is Mike like? I've only met the man once. They generally try to keep the print guys away from the radio guys because radio guys are just like, you know, it's almost like if you, you know, wrote a blog about talk radio and then you had Howard Stern working for the same company. Right. They're going to generally separate.

I'm going to keep those two very exclusive, but I have met him once, and I have to say, not to toot my own horn, but toot, toot, I'm a very good first impression guy. My wife is literally, I amaze her every single time we meet new people, because I can literally know in five minutes. I can read someone immediately, and six months later, she'll be like, this person turned out to be a jerk, like I told you. How do you do that? It's a gift. It's a gift. It's a gift. um so i you know i don't feel that he's you know i'll be honest with you it's easy i would think

in that position to get an ego um he didn't come off like that to me at all you know it's he came up to me as like like i just like i've met a million times before like we shook hands we had a casual conversation for 20 minutes about radio about media about kids about family about living in you know where he lives and summer plans and it just honestly it seemed like i walked away from that and i was like wow you know i feel like we've been friends like for a long time and i think that's an important um show of one's character i think i'm so disappointed i actually think i know i know you were looking for me to call him a jerk but what i did want for you to say is like oh yeah i met him once and he asked me to help him

with something he didn't understand with his phone. I just feel like... He started reading golf scores to me. Oh! For 30 minutes. I love it. I wanted you to be like,

I was in studio the day he went on his Harambe rant. The gorilla! Oh, that must have been awesome. Oh, yeah! He's our favorite. Yeah, and I don't ever... I've never got the sense from Mike that he's a jerk. I just think Mike's Mike.

Yeah, exactly. Mike, look, I actually, as I was texting you before, Adam, I am the least offendable, least PC person you'll probably ever meet. Right. Honestly, nothing that offends me or that I'm PC about. So I actually appreciate that kind of in-your-face, like, tell me how you feel. Don't beat around the bush.

Like, this is ridiculous. You know what I mean? I actually appreciate that kind of relationship with anybody I encounter. or so. Well, I just had to ask. I was thinking about the Harambe video. Yeah, the Harambe video is amazing. And the most recent one where he basically said the Mets should never

come back to New York. Did you see that one? Oh, yeah. Don't even bring the bus back. I saw that. That was awesome. Steve, he's like an older fan. He's like you, man. Oh my god. Oh my god. Right? I mean...

Steve to Mike Francesa. i mean yeah does he even have a book oh my yeah oh my goodness yeah anyway we just i had to ask because let you live that down yeah well exactly i mean you work at a station with like boomer esiason geo and i mean there's some pretty major names there so i just i had to ask how it was and the first time we talked i was too afraid to ask because i felt like it was too new you know what i mean no they do they do keep us they do try to keep us that's honestly true though they do try to keep the the kind of the print guys and the internet guys away from the on-air personalities they feel like we'll corrupt them or something i don't know okay well my shots or something we're

glad that you haven't kept away from us even though we unfortunately kept away from you and i'm really sorry and i appreciate it i was i always love coming on the show well we uh love having you we will check in again probably towards the end of the summer when i'm sure the islanders have done something else and i guess if anything breaks in between we'll give you a show but Andy, real pleasure. Andy Graziano, you can check him out. And the legendary 660 WFAN with, of course, our legendary fan favorite, Mike Francesca, most popular member of the Steve Nango podcast, and he doesn't even know we exist.

I don't even know if he'd know how to download this show. It'd be subscription. And, Andy, good luck with everything, and we'll talk to you again very, very soon, my friend. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Much appreciated. Take care. All right, pal. So, I mean, we haven't gotten to every signing And here's the deal, we can't

We have another show this week When usually we would have gone down to one show a week That's when I think we'll talk about Obviously Phil Kessel was traded What the hell are the Wilds doing We saw the lizard quote With Paul Fenton talking about Zuccarello Where he sticks his tongue out

And gets what he wants But we can't really get into it because we're really And truly out of time But I do want to throw this out there And Jesse, I don't know if you've considered things this way If you've been watching the NBA free agency, you know that the Knicks struck out on Durant and Kyrie. And they walked across the street to Brooklyn.

And I find it so funny that the same organization that can't nail down Durant and Kyrie Irving can somehow pull in Artemi Panarin because the Rangers are so A+, but the Knicks are like a negative F. It's unbelievable to me. Does James Dolan own the Rangers? I did not know that, and I am surprised their rebuild is going so well because Jeff Gordon, a.k.a. Jimmy Altieri, is doing a ridiculous job.

And in terms of the Metro playoff picture, we might see a switcheroo of the New York teams there. I think so. I think the Rangers are—I don't see how the Rangers aren't at least in the top three, maybe top two conversation. I mean, especially if—Georgiev and Lundqvist, are you goalies? Well, and to me the big one is they're talking about trading Chris Kreider, who I think the Rangers should ask for the sun and the moon for. I want to see, with every fiber of my being, Artemi Panarin play on a line with Chris Kreider.

Ooh. Just set up and set up and set up. I bet as soon as the season starts, I bet the Kreider rumors go away. Unless he's gone by then. Unless he's gone. Were you guys shocked at the dollar amount? Because I was. I didn't think it would get that high for Panarin.

uh well just in the if you had asked me two weeks ago i would have been surprised at that number but uh that's like the night before and they're talking about 13 million dollars that's why i had that tweet where i was like dude the we might go to bed tomorrow night and the highest paid player in the nhl will be a guy who didn't make his nhl debut until he was almost 24 and he was undrafted you know it was it was such a mind-blowing thing to me and uh a little bit like Tavares too almost the same numbers as well oh yeah he's gonna get 13 million dollars oh 11 and so it was it was a little bit like that with Panarin where I saw 11-6 and I was like ah it's nothing he left money on the table I want to see the first big fish or well first big fish

in a couple years, the biggest fish, not leave any money on the table. They go to the team with the highest offer. If it was Tavares, he'd be making $13 million right now. If it was Panarin, he'd be making $12.5 million right now. You know what I mean? If it was McDavid, he'd be making $15.9 million right now. Oh, my God. Is that the max?

That was the max that year. It's no longer the max. I think the max is $16 something. It's ridiculous. It's crazy. When you look at the NBA, it's amazing nobody is making, even in the same ballpark as the Macs in the NHL.

There was that tweet that went viral the other day that talked about Jeremy Yager in 99 was making 10 million bucks and the top free agents were all around the same 10-15 million bucks in every major league and then this year it's like McDavid 12.5

like LeBron James 42. It's nuts. I want to say Sundin made over 9 million dollars when I was still in elementary school. Yeah. Anyway, I think one heck of a show. Thank you so much for listening.

We are going to be live from Port Perry. The tickets for that are sold out, but we're going to have a really fun time. If you are coming, bring your questions. If you're not coming, what we're going to do is... Go... No, sorry. If you're not coming... That one, yeah.

Make sure... Let's start a... I don't know, Jesse, how you normally do the questions, honestly, on Reddit, but if we start a thread now about your questions, we're going to do a mostly question and answer episode, I think. I'll send out a tweet. on Twitter, and then you can reply to the tweet

with your question, and then we'll get to it on Thursday. Beautiful. Beautiful. And those questions, by the way, can change between now and Thursday. I had a bunch of people messaging me over the weekend, just in my DMs, going, oh my god, what are the Leafs going to do? And then the Tyson-Barry thing happens, and

I got a bunch of follow-up messages going, never mind, I'm better now. Oh, dude. Yeah, exactly. I know you're trying to rap, but You asked CJ the question. How are you guys going to remember Nazem Kadri? Like, what memory sticks out? It's 10 years is a long time.

Yeah, I'm choosing not to remember the suspensions. I mean, it's part of his story. It's part of the reason he's gone, so you can't ignore it. But I said, man, I've been saying for probably half a decade now regarding Nazem Kadri. It's a miracle he was a Leaf for as long as he was. They were so bad for so long And so stupid And Talasikans called him fat

And they called him fatso On the Toronto Sun Which Yuri Tlusty thinks is rather polite Right, because they printed Yuri Tlusty's penis Well, well Almost Well, they posted about it To do what you said would be illegal

I think But anyway Anyway, it's been a wild ride for Nas, and it was amazing seeing how long he stuck it out through the dark, dark years in Toronto, and the fact that he got to see a little bit of the light helps a bit. the the look on his face when bozak scored the ot winner against the caps um damn it i just wish i i was gonna say i wish they could have gone farther farther i wish they could have gotten out of the first round i wish they could have won a stanley cup um but you know naz left a big impact and a lot of the messages that i got regarding my video or heading into my video were from fans from like you know the middle east and and asian cultures and naz got muslim

yeah like a lot of people naz got a lot of people into hockey yeah uh and it's it goes back to a conversation we've had several times you know it's not always the most welcoming and some of you are going to roll your eyes and just remember some of you don't have the same experience as those people so it was awesome uh to have him as a leaf for as long as he was uh his nhl career is not done he's going to continue to play he's not retiring but well he's about to be robin to nathan mckinnon's batman and that is terrible news for the central division um it's like colorado wins that division man it sucks losing tyson berry but holy smokes they got the defense to do it i think Like, I, they're scary.

You got, they got, if I'm not mistaken, off the top of my head, they have Nathan McKinnon and Nazem Kadri for $10.8 million. Yeah. Less than John Tavares. And I love John Tavares with all my heart. But wow, wow. Two incredible value contracts and still the world of cap space. $27 million projected right now.

Right now. What? Yeah. So they can sign Rantanen to, like, a terrible deal and still be... Who cares? They can get nearly three Rantanens if they wanted. What are the Avalanche up to? Sakic said he's not in the business of signing offer sheets,

and Sakic is a dirty liar because he himself signed one as a player. So this summer is not done, not done by a long shot. I think he would be ridiculously silly not to do one. But I think if you're a general manager, and I would say this, I admire what Marc Bergevin did with Ajo, except I don't think that that was, I mean. No. If this is two years ago, pre-Tom Dundon, when that family was suing each other, whatever their names were, like the father and the two sons were suing each other

that owned the Carolina Hurricanes, you could see then how maybe Carolina couldn't have matched. But Tom Dundon lit $50 million on fire for half a season of that football league. Like he's, the guy's loaded. He'll be okay. And nuts. And nuts. Do you want to have pissed off that kind of crazy when you have Poehling and Suzuki and this and that and that? Dundon's not pissed at the Canadians.

Dundon's pissed at Ajo's agent. And he said that today. Oh, great. He said the agent sold Montreal a bill of goods, I believe was the quote. Oh. So as in life. Yeah. This is going to get so much dumber before it gets smart.

It's going to be great. Because I sat there and I was like, why would Montreal do this? Because Bergevin's sitting there, and he's like, this isn't a real threat. But if the agent came to him and was like, hey, if you do this, maybe you will take it. Maybe it'll happen. Then that's a different story. Immediately, people started comparing it to the Leafs. And, oh, what does this mean for that?

Dude, if Mitch Marner got that contract, I would drive to Montreal and hand Mark Bergevin flowers. Are you kidding me? Yeah, really. So would Dubas We'd be looking at each other We'd be the Spider-Man meme with our thick-framed glasses GMs looking out for each other And matching giant bouquets of flowers

Absolutely Just a quick thing On another player That I think is lost in all this Is Connor Brown And I'd just like to quickly say That a guy played 250 games And we have to remember

That Connor Brown was the beginning of the turnaround A 2012 draft pick From here Yeah, from here, a sixth rounder. And before Nylander, before Marner, before Matthews. A minus 72 in his draft year. Yep. Before all of those guys, though, and even before Freddie the Goat,

Connor Brown was the guy that we were like, I remember going into the Nylander draft year going, well, hey, they got one guy, this Connor Brown guy, sure seems like he might be something, and he was. And I think Connor Brown scores 20 goals with his eyes closed next year. Yeah, he's going to get the opportunity If Ryan Zingle can score 20 goals with the Senators last year

I think Connor Brown can do it too He was a luxury for the Leafs It made no sense to have a 2 plus million dollar player on the 4th line He ain't going to be on Ottawa's 4th line Have you looked at their roster? Thank goodness they got a bunch of Leafs Dubas wasn't kidding Their roster is like 20% former Leafs

Because they didn't have any players Heading into Canada today And that's where I I just, you know, with local guys, with Mitch Marner as well, with guys that grew up here, they are living the dream that all of us grew up wanting. And for him, he carried himself with class. He worked hard. He didn't complain. Lou Amorello made him wait until August to sign the contract that he's currently on because Lou was Lou.

He's like, you're just going to wait. And, you know, he came in and gave what he could. But he outlived his, unfortunately, and I hate to put it this way, outlived his usefulness for the Leafs because his best role is not what the Leafs could offer him. Again, it made no sense to have him on the fourth line. He's a luxury, man. He's a luxury. He was a luxury.

He'll have a great couple seasons on the Sens and probably make more than the $2 million he's making now. And did you ever look at Connor Brown's game and go, boy, he's not working hard enough? No! Never once. Never once. I never really liked the Brown criticism. Well, I mean, I can understand the numbers criticism, like what he brought. But I also have to just say, like, I'm honestly, I think that that was the role he was in.

Just like with Nikita Zaitsev after his first season, I think they threw him to the wolves, just like they did with Morgan Rielly the season before, to see what do you have. And I don't think Zaitsev had it, and I think Morgan Rielly did. Yeah. And so in saying all that, little shout-out to Connor Brown, too, for thank you for being the first of many prospects that came along and made a difference here. Thank you to the son of Ann.

Yeah. I got to meet his mom at Game 3 against Washington. And thank you for even allowing that series to happen because if it hadn't been for his goal, they don't make the playoffs that year. The little leprechaun has found a pot of gold! Great call. Vintage Bowen. So, shout out to all the former Leafs.

Even Ronald Hainsey, damn it. Gonna miss all of you. Are we done? We're done. Cool. We'll see you Thursday in Port Perry. What time? Seven?

I don't know. Yeah. What time? Seven. Seven. Seven in Port Perry. What do you mean you don't know? I was just joking.

That was a bad joke. You're a bad joker. You know the time! Yeah. Hey, man. I'm actually asking for people. Seven o'clock? Yeah!

Okay, but be there earlier, right? Yeah! All right, cool. We'll have some beers and we'll have a good time. Panago pizza? follow the guys on twitter at steve underscore dangle at adam w y l d and at jesse blake the steve dangle podcast brought to you by panago pizza order at panago.com and stuff your face with deliciousness