The Steve Dangle Podcast - No Big Deal | January 17, 2025

Episode Date: January 17, 2025

On this episode of The Steve Dangle Podcast, the Leafs special teams and depth scoring (00:00), Klingberg, Keefe, and the big boys stepping up (34:00), McDavid passes Jari Kurri (54:00), JT Miller's meltdown (1:00:00), and the Kyle Dubas retrospective (1:18:00). Visit this episode's sponsors: For all the odds and to learn more visit https://betmgm.com/DANGLE Any opinion expressed is not advice, a promise or suggestion that increases the chance of winning. Gambling can be addictive, please play responsibly. To learn more, visit: https://igamingontario.ca/en/player/responsible-gambling Or if you have concerns about a gambling problem, call ConnexOntario 1-866-531-2600. Must be 19+ or older to play. Find your push. Find your power with Peloton at onepeloton.com/en-CA Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at https://airbnb.ca/host Subscribe to the sdpn YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@sdpn?sub_confirmation=1 Join SDP VIP: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0a0z05HiddEn7k6OGnDprg/join Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/thestevedanglepodcast Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sdpvip/subscribe Follow us on Twitter: @Steve_Dangle, @AdamWylde, & @JesseBlake Follow us on Instagram: @SteveDangle, @AdamWylde, & @Jesse.Blake Join us on Discord: https://discord.com/invite/MtTmw9rrz7 For general inquiries email: [e-mail] Reach out to https://www.sdpn.ca/sales to connect with our sales team and discuss the opportunity to integrate your brand within our content!Reach out to https://www.sdpn.ca/sales to connect with our sales team and discuss the opportunity to integrate your brand within our content! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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download that. TaskRabbit.ca. Code Dangle. Two in five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself friends and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research together we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer register today at pmcf walk.ca the steve dangle podcast with your host steve dangle adam wild and jesse blake to quote katie perry and william nylander it's no big deal oh it's no big deal it's no big deal

remember that song jesse i do i do remember that song yeah not one of her better ones no it was like the fourth or fifth single off that album but it was listen it was bad but we played it a lot i thought you were gonna say you're gonna hear me roar uh we got lots to talk about today including uh the penguins uh and jt miller in vancouver and john clingberg's potential comeback and cj did a whole in-depth thing on that but first we have to talk about this one thing and this one thing it's happening tonight and that is the cj show live in coburg and it is sold out and just a big uh and it's hilarious and i'm not kidding cj was really like uh are are we sure we want to do this by the time people are hearing this we're probably like on stage yeah i know i

I just want to give him a shout out. No, I'm just saying. We'll be on stage. Steve and Jesse and I are going to be like, this is our show now. Sorry, CJ show, you can't. I'm stealing it. I'm kicking Juliet off stage.

I'm kicking CJ off stage. You're setting your life to steal. I'm setting my, I'm just going to claim Coburg. Oh, there you go. Oh, it's your hometown. Yeah, and then put the entire town in the British Museum. I like that. I like that.

This is mine. We're shipping Coburg to London now. yeah i found it uh okay and there by the way there's there is a coberg uh and it is in europe i believe coberg is a german name no do you know that uh hey least game last night it was the best of times it was the worst of times they won they won they won jesse's pulling up a berube clip i'm excited about this but in case you missed the game uh the first thing you need to know is the leafs didn't lead it until they won it uh but but had uh and i thought despite some of the stupidity we'll get into it a pretty good game i thought that game was what people told me the

stars game was oh i like okay interesting in what way oh you know it was tight uh anyone could have won it no that game was tight and anyone could have won it and the leafs looked like the better team for the majority of the game that's right now it was it was it was real frustrating to wrap your head around because they're on the verge of losing four straight but every time i looked up and the leafs were losing i had to think about what i had watched already i had to look at the numbers as well put them together and come to the conclusion they've been better but it'd be real cool if they won as a result pre-game William Nylander said it's a three-game losing streak it's no big deal and CJ said in the group chat he's like hey listen you can look at it like

they've lost three straight or you can look at it like they've won five of their last eight I thought that was very uh cheeky very CJ of him and and uh that that it's no big deal quote really came back to bite when on the first goal the Leafs are on a power play William Nylander makes a bad pass to mitch marner at the blue line no so they were already down one nothing i got i got confused too oh that was that was two yeah they were already down one nothing and they almost gave up two nothing that's right shorthanded and that was because of willie yeah and i'm just watching that like fiddle dd gonna remember that for the end of the game if they lose jesse is that berube thing that you want to bring up is that pre or post game uh that has to do with the power play

okay so let's talk about the power play then because it was bad and until it wasn't until it wasn't it was bad early on in the game and it's been frustrating and uh i think rightly so the conversations about mark savard have begun because you have to at a certain point say people like well how many coaches do they need to sorry guys the reality is under spencer carberry that's me under spencer carberry these guys had a good power play most of last season until it mattered under Guy Boucher these guys had a good power play and where's he he's avant-garde Omsk yeah he's in Siberia yeah they literally sent him to Siberia um and Marc Savard is coming here's the problem though at least with Carberry you had success with Guy Boucher you had success 80%

of the season the 20% that mattered is really unfortunate with Marc Savard you've had one month of good power play and that's when Austin wasn't playing and that like that November stretch right and so i think you're right to ask hey man yes i'm sure there's a player issue as well but like you haven't shown that you can get these players to even score where the previous guys could and that is a frustrating thing and i'm i do want to have this conversation but i'd like to hear what craig brube had to say yeah because adam says that we have the right to ask about the power play and craig berube disagrees oh cool and then i want to provide some context with the for this after uh we hear what he has to say he's gonna fight me isn't he and get to and get a power

play the last 10 games is 23 it's not struggling you know i'll even go further back so you can hear the question as well um our battle our second and third effort do you remember in all zones the power play which has struggled you draw a penalty and get to and get a power play the last 10 games is 23 it's not struggling you know i you know i get what you're saying it's struggled at times in games where we have two or three power you're you're you know we're we're looking at vancouver where it struggled you know i get it go ahead sorry oh it's okay i understand what you're saying as well yeah i mean the that really stood out to me last night when it happened when we're all sitting there on the other side of the camera this is post game this is post game after

the win against the devils um last night and that was the first time i'd seen berube push back on a question post game oh i'd never seen him be like okay a reporter starts his question with like hey the power play is struggling and he interrupts it and says no our power play is not struggling it's 23% or whatever he said the last 10 games you're talking about Vancouver and that's true I've never seen him emote like that so I thought it was very interesting

and I'd like to know your guys' thoughts on Berube's thoughts on the power play not struggling the one asterisk I would put is on one of those you were one for one even though you gave up a shorthanded goal so I think that number is a bit skewed but no he's right no he's not

No, he's not. Oh, he's not? Why isn't he right? Hey, what's 23% put you? If you did 23% the entire year, right? Like to this point. 15? Yeah.

Yeah. So they're 18th. So Craig, listen. It's middle of the pack, man. It's a coach's job sometimes, especially in Toronto, to gaslight a little bit. You got to gas your players up. You got to kind of lie, right? right now if the least power play had been 23 all year and it hasn't no we're just talking

last 10 games but if it had been 23 all year that would put you in line with the senators and blackhawks if you're well if you're a head coach for 12th for 12th it's even i think you exist 54 million dollars on this power play there it is wealth there it is so it's even better than what i said it's oh guys it's 18th in the league that's six that jumped six spots adam these guys that's so many spots that's this this team should be top five okay so there's no problem that's a problem there's the problem because it goes back to what i always say what do you mean you can't score you have the most expensive offense in the nhl and also they're really good like they're good players okay score then that this but okay so that no no but the argument is well it uh say

that they're struggling yeah i would say based on expectations 12th 12th in the last 10 games is still not good enough guys and by the way isn't that interesting unreasonable no it's not it's absolutely not interesting are you kidding me no no okay it should be reasonable it should be i i agree with you oh i'm sorry we went into this year going every year we want a 12th best power play that's gonna win us the fucking cup 12th best so hey man if we come in and you're anything other than top five you lose your job no it should be that's where it's been steve for half a decade is top where's gee i don't know that's that i don't where's gee because because it fucking died at the end of the year last year yeah but look at the overall that's what we're doing right

we're looking big picture oh look at the overall he was no he was great he's doing great let's go gee let's get him back they fire up the jet let's go to omsk get gee back fire up the jet let's go to freaking they have cool jerseys out you'd have to go through the uae first that's the only way to get to or just if you said you were gonna say before i don't remember what i was gonna say i'm not gonna lie because we came off of this insane and you were like you said something like he's not wrong you know like and adam said no they're struggling they've been better recently yeah cool um no adam if you're a coach you exist in what's happened recently and if you start ass and get better you're getting better i think that's what you

look at as a coach if you're a coach what makes you feel good winning and improvement and you feel like you're doing a good job yeah how does a coach come to the conclusion that they're doing a good job the coat the team that they're coaching is getting better right that's how I would look at it if I was Craig or Mark and I I let me just say this I've loved Craig Berube in Toronto sure but I I and I and I get he's right on that stick up for his guy and he has to because because they've been bad well and isn't it funny that they don't score a freaking goal in the power play until they switch a guy up who's the new guy on the power play bobby mcmahon okay three it is a little generous well they they had to switch it up they had to put them out there and look at that they

score isn't that crazy it's so funny so weird i i understand it's so weird i understand what you're saying my point is 12 18th or 12th still bad not good enough and and to say that the leafs have taken advantage of their power play opportunities this year outside of that one little stretch in november is is you're lying to me you're lying to me stop lying to me i here's here's how i tend to look at it um especially because we always look through the we look at the leafs through the lens of k but the playoffs right yeah i don't give a shit how they did in october like in literally any respect i don't care what anyone's save percentage was i don't care what the expected goals were i don't care what the hits and blocks and shots and goals were

i don't care it is entirely irrelevant to what's going on in january and that goes for november too when they were real good they were they were sharp who gives a shit so i live in now the the reason i've been upset with this losing streak isn't just that it's a losing streak it's a losing streak now and also like look at the Canucks schedule uh died died died shut the Leafs out died died like dude they've been getting killed the the Canucks performance since that game only justifies how I felt uh about that game but I'm getting sidetracked if you're evaluating your season I think you evaluate it in eight to ten game chunks I think is that's what they usually do valid and he's looking at this 10 game chunk and going well no we're doing okay and like should

this power play be above 12th yes 100 it's currently 18th okay on the season though don't care well i don't care you know what man i don't care about winning games in october adam if this power play finishes 12th what does that mean for their back half on the power it's probably a top 10 power play yeah but we're not close to that so what are we even talking about but they're get adam they're improving they're on the yellow brick road yeah i know you you have a lot more faith in this than i do i adam honestly here's what when you don't come to me when you look at that's what i'm saying that's how that's how down on this i am this is this is you know and and we we couple that with the struggles of the special teams which uh with the p the pk which jesse

rightly pointed out last uh episode i think it was last episode or monday's episode last episode yeah and you know they were at one point third they're now ninth in pk and and let's be honest here you go and you watch go back and watch if you got the chance at least they're 12th in the league in uh penalty kill so last night they were eighth going into the game now they're 12th so if you're yeah if you're third and now you're 12th that means recently you're like in the 20s yes so jesse said 26th i think recently what what did i say didn't you say 26 in their last yeah last last show you had a stat i don't remember they were like 26 over a certain since the start of the year or something on pk uh from no from january 1st uh through what was it the two games

ago they were actually first in the league but then the the stretch in between those couple games like last couple games they've been near the bottom okay so yeah that i think that's what it was right so if you're looking at the last like week or two uh the leafs power play is actually better than their penalty kill which is on the whole unusual like if you look at the entire season the whole sample size yeah no that's weird there's a lot of weird things about this team man okay but here's so sorry just with the penalty kill stuff i don't want to get it wrong uh last two games if you look at it from like the 14th to the 17th they're 31st in penalty kill pretty bad yeah yeah they've been giving up and there was a stretch from when we came back from from like

new year's january 1st uh to like three previous games ago they were first in the league in penalty kill yeah yeah do you have that immediate drop off and that's brought them down to 12th which isn't great for a penalty kill that's been so good and recoverable because i believe in the penalty kill because over long stretches of time it's been very good sure and here's the thing when you go and you look at teams that win the stanley cup in the playoffs um they special teams the special teams on both sides are what win it and this is where i like i look at the new jersey power play and i go that's the power play the leafs could and should have you've got a very similar makeup in terms of skill set the least are a little bit older uh than the than the devils

like jack hughes is quite young nico he sure is quite well i guess nico he sure is not as young as he used to be no he's um it's kind of weird has 700 points i know we'll talk about that kid just got here what are you talking about yeah my my point is is that you know i don't think i i'm i'm happy for them that they're improving yes okay i don't think it's enough and when you watch the way the devils play what do they do what do they do on the power play go to the they go to the fucking net well they did last night like that that austin goal i loved last night because they they he went to the net they did everything i was screaming about on wednesday show they did everything in that game last night there was examples of all that and on power play

in particular it was austin banging a rebound from a shot from the point because all they were doing on that one power play was firing shots to the net and there was two guys in front to bang it home and i was like just throw the puck there get a rebound score and they did it one day we're gonna learn what actually happened with austin matthews this season he looks magical he's bad he's big he's back he looks every bit as good as he did last year um when he scored 69 friggin goal he might nah i shouldn't even say it out loud nah say it the way he's playing let's say he plays all the rest of the games of the season he could still screw around and hit 50 it's he's got six goals in his life in his seven games that he's been back so yeah he's been a monster goal a game

been a monster yeah and with with adam and you're you guys talking about the the power play there And Steve, I think you nailed what Berube is referring to when you were talking about the small chunks on how a coach looks at the season. Because in their last four power play opportunities, they have one goal. That's 25%. 25% on your power play puts you in top five in the league. Like, that's a great power play. And I think Berube is sitting there like, if every four power plays we get one goal, that's incredible. We have one of the best power plays.

so he's looking at like last four power plays we got one goal that's 25 i don't know how you're gonna sit there and tell me we're struggling when we just did that and if he looks at that every single time every four we get one we're good and the same thing with the 10 games in the season if every 10 games in a season we go seven in three yeah best team in league if you look that's incredible yeah if you look at elia that's the coach's mind if you look at elia samson off season last year he was three goalies he was the goalie that he was until christmas which is unusable um then there's the goalie that he was until about april 5th yep which was one honest to god one of the best goalies in the league and then there was his final two games that make you go

oh shit oh he's back like I I'm let's okay let's look at the Leafs power play let's say from the beginning of the season till now hot ass power play now let's say from now until the end of the season their top five fantastic and they might finish 12th with a top five power play yeah and I'm fine with that and then in the final two games of the season they go oh for eight I'm I'm gonna be clenching yeah yeah i'm gonna be like it's playoffs are clenched dude be hot at the right time just be hot at the right time that i think is the okay beginning middle and end of this team yeah you're showing some signs of life is good too and they are they are i won't take that away at all but let's be honest now when was the last time an assistant coach got fired mid-season

without the head coach getting fired as well yeah that's never gonna happen like the the power you're stuck with Savard like that's until the end of this season at least that's that's what's I look forward to seeing who they bring in next year at this point I mean I know he's a nice guy I know he's a great guy I bet they'll fix it I do not I they I bet they'll flame power play last year not good that was the concern heading into this year I'm not that Adam that's legit that's legit that's 100% a legitimate concern I'm totally with you I'm just saying I we can't Let the big dudes off the hook. But then look who showed up yesterday.

The big dudes. The big dudes. All of them. All of them. I think they combined for seven or eight points. Do you know where the Flames power play finished last season? Where did it? Like 23rd?

Adam, take a guess. 20th. 27th. Great. Love it for us. Now, to be honest, they don't have the same weapons we do, which is what makes this so frustrating. We have the weapons. now let's talk a little bit about um let's talk a little bit about some of the things that went

wrong in the game that made it more frustrating than it needed to be sure and that is offensive zone penalties by defensemen uh y'all had a tough night oh we all had a tough night and i said it on the stream the first one i was like okay they stepped on his stick like i'm i'm not i think that was a weak call the second one was absolutely call every day of the week and what i want to part to the Leafs, Nick Robertson a little bit, Max Domi a little bit, OEL last night, your stick doesn't need to come above your waist in the offensive zone.

What reason would it need? Other than you got beat, somebody else got the puck and they beat you body position, right? Or you're swinging at something because you're tipping it down to get, or tipping it up to get to the like you're in front of the net and you're tipping,

right? Those are the only two reasons that your stick needs to be above your waist in the offensive zone stop stop the leafs have done this all year it's driving me nuts it's driving me nuts too but it's another one where i'm like eventually the spring will show up yeah and then eventually the spring will show up and everything's fine and i know you missed this but last i think you missed this um the last tsn game which i think was earlier this week um they talked about the refs oh yeah you never explained this to me so so so traeger got on the air so O'Neill came out came on and like these it was a Dallas penalty Leafs penalty on Dallas

whatever and O'Neill's like you can't call that you just can't call that I forget which one it was doesn't matter and Drager was like so I'll tell you what head office hates head office hates that that we would the media says that the standard changes going into the playoffs head office uh should watch because they will occasional hockey they will say what are you talking about they said the standard i'm shocked that this clip didn't go more viral like i'm actually shocked because it was one of those where i was like you could tell dregs was like yeah i think they're crazy too but they but head office will will absolutely tell them i guess anybody that's in contact with them no the standard is the standard and it's the same standard right

up until the last game of the finals okay oh so we're all just telling lies yeah and that nuts I just thought that was crazy, right? Like, we're all lying. I mean, they're all lying to themselves. We're not. We see it. Gary Bettman drinks blood. You're allowed to just say whatever you want.

You're allowed to just say whatever you want. So getting back to the OEL penalty, I don't think that's a penalty late season or in the playoffs. The second one is a penalty every day of the week, no matter what part of the year it is. That's the hooking, right? Yeah. And you just can't.

You just can't. And I think Oliver Ekman-Larsen's been a great at. i think that he's for what them for what they're paying him i'm like man this is great fantastic but nights like that you you're a vet it's a bad one you can't do that the leafs i'd and by the way new jersey scored on both penalties i'd be yeah i'd be curious to know uh where the leafs rank in offensive zone penalties taken man it seems like a lot and it's And it feels like a lot of... And immediately after a goal.

Oh, man. Yes. Dude, it's like both the second and third period, it was OEL takes a penalty. Devils get a power play. Nico Heischer scores. Austin Matthews ties it. Both the second and third period

had that exact sequence of events. Yep. Listen, the decor is, you know, it's lost a bit of its shine oh jake mckay being back that was great huh just let me get into my warm cozy hoodie num num num num he's i had no idea i would love this player as much as i do especially like remember the way his leafs tenure started who was his d partner in the 23 playoffs wasn't it him and brody was the shutdown pair i think so and that was pre-brody fall off to be fair it was pre-brody fall off but they were not great no well mccabe you could tell he came in and

then there was times where he i think riley got injured and he had to like run the power play and it was not great yeah i do remember i liked him from the get i thought he was better in 2024 than he was playoffs 2023 because he'd had the training camp i liked him from the get i love him now right love yeah he's the best and better they got him man i mean it's either him and tan of and they play together. Yeah, no, Tanev. I'm underrating Tanev. Yeah, Tanev was great last night, too.

I'd die for him. He doesn't know who I am. I'd die for him. Sportsnet Stats, though, tweeted this out. And this was at 7-17, so right as the game starts. Morgan Rielly has been outscored 10-1 at 5-on-5 over the last 10 games.

So that was probably, if it was 7-17, it was probably the Devils' first goal. Right after the first goal. Two and a half minutes in. But what was funny, though, is the first intermission breakdown you have Jeff O'Neill going well that's on Lorenz and that's on Myers it is because Lorenz blows the zone and Riley fires it to him he's like all right if you're

gonna go I'll give it to you it doesn't work at all and uh Myers let Jack Hughes get behind him and it's in the back of the net so Riley is on the ice for the goal and it's yet another thing that looks bad on him but I'm struggling to see how it's his fault okay this is so irrelevant oh yeah okay then then what about the other nine well let's break them down like it's so situational like you got to watch tape to to harp on a guy for goals against strictly just like hey you got this many against there was a well wouldn't you not say then the biggest clue to morgan riley struggles with the leafs are the fact that he's not on the power play anymore like the reality is he's not playing well like let's just call it what it is he's not not he's not i think he's hurt too

but like only so if he's hurt don't put him in positions where he's gonna gonna fail i think the only logical reason to take morgan riley off the power play is you're trying to limit his workload because he's hurt yeah yeah and there's nobody in the system that can kind of like oel supposed to be able to do some of what he can do they don't even really try it anymore eh no which is weird the second unit the second unit's a waste of time yeah they don't even need to list that like don't put it out there just rotate your lines at that point yeah throw the third line up there but like it's a waste of time uh um what was it uh uh sheldon keeve said after the game that every team needs a jake mccabe he said he told jake mccabe that after he got let go god he's

so good uh he is good um the uh before the game sorry before the game now the the thing i want to i want to mention is we asked the big guys to score when the team's struggling and they did Neylander, two amazing goals. Matthews, two amazing goals. That pass from Marner was unbelievable in overtime. They didn't have the puck until that moment. And then it was that moment where Marner, Matthews is going off and Marner's like,

oh, there's Willie. The Leafs need to score more ugly goals. And I mean, Matthews sort of got one. God, they really excel at scoring the sexiest frigging goals of all time. Max Domi's pass to Willie. Oh, insane. i'm like i'm almost tearing up right now like oh my god just so freaking beautiful marner's dart

dart to willie for the ot winner and matthew's sniping like we remember he can there's the one banging goal that's it let's look at the other side of it though which is if they didn't score no one can and and you know i look at like you look at the third line last night the fourth line i'm not expecting them to that's a good fourth line i'm happy with them the third line is uh we're just gonna throw whatever we have on the ice tonight they called up minton they need to get like a practice in or a strategy session in with him before they can play him so holmberg is between robertson and patch already it's a grocery stick line like a whole line yes of the it was uh what pizza is supposed to be pizza is supposed to be you take a bunch of

your leftover bullshit and you put it on some bread and you call it a meal yeah that that is what that line was and Robertson did get a couple of shots Holmberg had a pretty good chance but but but I think if you're Robertson or you're patch ready you're looking at Holmberg and going okay well he's where offense goes to die so if I have to if I'm getting the puck I better shoot you throw I feel like if you throw Minton in there all of a sudden that looks like a line with a function yes and like it's not a shot at Holmberg it's just what is that what is that line what's the what do you throw them out there for other than to take up time and so are you are they are they getting a goal are they shutting it down are they for checking are they well what's

the purpose if you can if you're Brad for a living I think this the the do the trade deadline early or part of it you need to get that center now because you need to figure out like Max Domi very clearly is a Robin to an elite player's Batman he when you put him out there with one of the core four he looks great when you don't he disappears and you you have saddled him with an ice-cold Robertson all year long and McMahon who didn't have a great start under Berube and that line looked good good-ish better than what they had but you put Max Domi with an Austin Matthews a William Nylander and you're like oh now I've brought out the best in Max Domi I don't remember when it was but that goal instantly brought me back to a time where Domi played

with Nylander and I don't remember when it was or what the situation last year a little bit wasn't it oh my god they make magic they're great they make magic so if you can go get that center that is going to be hopefully the guy Fraser Minton like well it would be super nice if it was but I have found Fraser Minton to be good and okay yeah I mean he's young I think he'll be a full timer next year i think he's one of your better options now well and i think he's going to get an opportunity here if if fraser minton takes this yeah the least don't have to fire a crazy amount of assets at the door um at the trade deadline if he takes this is this is fraser minton's opportunity to to jump the line and get it now oh you know listen we'd ideally like to get

brock nelson but we don't want to pay brock nelson price if fraser minton comes in and does it and and everybody's like hey this is this guy looks good there might be some flaws he's 21 we'll take it let me they can do something else can I say something in defense of Max Domi absolutely because I've talked about how I really don't think he's a center I still would prefer him on the right wing um he's the only guy um that doesn't have another center on his line who can take face-offs if he gets kicked out and that's part of what gives well actually Matthews with Marner and Nyes doesn't but over a lot of his career he's had other guys um one thing Willie really excels at is being the other guy in there and that's why him and Tavares can dominate

in the circle um Domi had that last night in Nylander and I know Nylander did really well in the dot I don't know if Domi did yeah there's maybe there's something there there's occasions where uh willie would just be the first guy in yeah not even on the right yeah whenever they're on the right side of the ice willie steps in he takes that face off and if you're wondering about his face off percentage is 50 and that's great 50 in the dot if you have if if when it was 56 by the way okay if when tavaris comes back you're able to find a spot for if like let's say leave minton out of it for a second okay sure you got matthews marner because for better or for worse those two are married yep uh you've got i really liked tavaris patch ready earlier this year i know

i really did a good game nice had a good game but i'm talking about pairs of guys that you got to stick together if domi nylander works then you can have matthews marner domi nylander tavaris patch ready and you can work around that with your mcmahons and your maybe you need to get another winger i don't know but there's there's an opportunity there to make some of that stuff work and i just feel like we've we we haven't tried enough of that do you know what i mean well injuries force you to do that i hope mitten works because it'd be nice to move domi to the wing uh yes i mean at what at what point i think you have to try mitten in that equation but uh even when tavaris comes back because at one point you need to make the decision the depth isn't

there and having two centers on each line or potential centers on each line that gives you that right yes yeah i i think you at some point they're going to have to make the decision all right it's not deep enough like again it's the dicky d conversation like i can't turn this dollar 25 into a dollar 50 no matter what way i arrange it yeah um that's how i always look at the leafs uh up front so uh you know the couple islander centers centers uh paggio and brock nelson's name have come up we've talked about ryan o'reilly all of those would be interesting fits for various reasons although pajo you'd have to like nearly anybody man like yanni gourd's names come up nick bukestad you know um donato on the maybe lower end it's they something that

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On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. challenge yourself friends and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research together we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer register today at pmcfwalk.ca on the defensive side if morgan riley is hurt i think the cj article on john klingberg is awful interesting did you guys see this uh when was it released uh it was a couple days ago and they talk about hip resurfacing and actually what it is because i realized i was

reading the article i'm like i don't really know what that is no and so what it is it's your hip has a ball joint where your leg is and then sorry your leg has the ball joint your hips got the the hand that goes over it like it's rock paper scissors and your leg is the rock and uh your your hip is the paper and it's covering it i always look forward to these conversations for the uh medical students that reach out to us after well whatever i didn't go to medical school i'm sure you'll be okay so uh essentially what patrick kane had done okay was you you basically it's created there's there's friction in that ball joint right there's something in there that that is creating tension and pain because it's it's it's not a ball anymore it's something else it's

a ball with like a rip in it or a crack in it or whatever okay so what patrick kane had done was one hip he had one hip done and he says uh and he's been on a tear lately yep um he said i have zero paint like no pain wow right wow uh and and a couple of the guys that also had it done jovenovsky and a few other guys those guys didn't have a lot of juice left patrick kane still in his early mid to mid 30s he can he can make it happen and how long ago did ed jovenovsky play 20 years john clingberg had both hips oh shit and well you say oh shit but sometimes when they do knee surgeries now the knee comes back better than it was before sometimes when they do so these some of these pictures that have tommy john surgery the the arm is better afterwards and so if kane's

coming back and he's feeling no pain if you're the leafs and you're not looking at john clingberg at least a little bit maybe the fitness isn't there whatever but his vision and his offensive touch as a depth defenseman going into the playoffs with Morgan Riley clearly not up to for whatever reason and again I think he's hurt that's got to make a ton of sense and he runs for free runs your power play he's he's like Tyson Berry he plays third pair of minutes and runs your power play great I mean it's not like Tyson Berry did awesome here but like but he did awesome in edmonton he did awesome in colorado can you be better than one of philippe myers or connor timmons i think you can all right all right john the bars here can you with your new hips get it

to creak over and step over that bar that's the thing is apparently they don't creak that's the crazy part about this surgery i'm just being a silly goose i was just like i didn't expect oil well who is oh it's john coming down the hall like i didn't really expect it but with with uh the defense like i think like he's perfect for this team like he fits right in and yeah he's he's a great replacement for connor timmons like i'd slide him in right there and dregger said in the first intermission that they're gonna have a decision on klingberg within the next 48 hours from when he was talking so oh we're gonna get a klingberg signing either this afternoon or tomorrow during the day the the oilers are the one that i think makes the most sense for klingberg

because he's instantly in the top four like yeah but where do you get your power play cookies what are you replacing evan bouchard yeah probably not also sorry it wasn't dregger it was mackenzie oh mackenzie bob mackenzie on the end of the panel there uh when he said i don't know if you guys saw it because i was watching it uh in the intermission the press box when he said the uh pp has been poo-poo yes mackenzie said that and then yeah he got his old insider hat uh back on and he dropped that klingberg noose so yeah because it was o'neill and uh and mckenzie there on the end there i know some people are going to be shaking our head at even considering this dude take what you saw with klingberg last year grumble it up throw it

over your shoulder it's a it's a different guy it's literally he's made of different things there's like metal and shit in him now yeah but even if he's not good it costs you nothing to do this yeah it's just then you throw him in the garbage there's no assets yeah and then you just let him go if it didn't work i don't understand why there's any pushback on signing a free defenseman who could easily slot into your top six well uh wave them dude william lagason got claimed last year yeah like just take a shot on it and i really think they will so steve you better start preparing uh for your klingberg is signed video oh yeah dude oh i better not interrupt my good time in Coburg tonight it might oh damn I'll have to record that live and in person oh that'd

be fun or not yeah or not so at the end of the day it was a feel-good win for the Toronto Maple Leafs Sheldon Keefe coming back and the Leafs giving Leaf fans giving him a round of applause was pretty cool yes and and Jesse I wanted to kind of ask you about the vibes after the game because uh vibes beforehand I think is more a lot more interesting okay because Sheldon Keefe spoke at length uh pre-game or during mornings after morning skate he did a pretty long media avails like 11 minutes which is very unusual for the opposing coach but sheldon keith i don't know if a lot of people know this his life is still here he didn't move any part of his life when he took the job in new jersey is two kids two kids are here his wife is here so when he's back

in toronto it's just everything's normal you know this is actually my home and i think if if you got truth serum in sheldon keith and and you asked him tomorrow if we gave you the job of head coach with toronto maple leafs back i think he would take it it feels like he's coming back one day every every single second i think this guy is disappointed that he couldn't win a championship for this team and you look back on the tenure and you look how things ended i i don't think there should be really that much blame on Sheldon Keefe as a coach on how things unfolded in terms of just on the ice performance like the dude got the most out of the rosters that he was given that he was at the end of the day it came down to the players I think and he loves he loves this city it's where

his home is look at the stat so yesterday if the Leafs had lost in regulation it would have been their fourth straight regulation loss something they hadn't done since the final four games of mike babcock with the leafs the leafs in the five seasons that sheldon keith was the coach never once lost four consecutive games in regulation yeah that's great he was an unbelievable coach for for the leafs and i think i think uh he he didn't want to he was he was distracted during that the welcome back tribute a little bit i saw that during which is a shame during the first tv timeout when they when they aired it but that that dude loves the city so you might have missed this because they were talking about it on the broadcast but apparently he said he was like

intentionally uh gonna be distracted yes during the tribute so he doesn't tear up yeah yeah that was that was apparently the people were talking about it afterwards too is yeah he he didn't want get too emotional in that moment. So he knew he had to look away from the crowd and then the screen. My favorite thing, and I mentioned it on the stream last night, my favorite thing Steve ever said about Sheldon Keefe was at the end of that video, that he took the video and then he flew away like an angel into the sky. Yeah, he filmed it in the afterlife. Like, he's going to a better place now. so good so good um okay uh jesse anything else from the game post game last night do you feel

like do you feel like i felt like the leafs were squeezing the stick like matthew nye is not scoring on that empty like he had an open net again tried to pass the puck yep um do you feel like they got a little their swagger back no i think what they did a good breakdown the intermission about matthew nye's not taking the opportunities when they're there but because he's on a line with austin and and mitch he's always looking to feed those guys which i think is very true so he needs to improve there but i don't know if you spent enough time on this was a really good win because the big guy stepped up and if if the depth is not going to be there we're paying four dudes 10 plus million dollars and john tavaris wasn't there but this is why you pay austin willie and

mitch right it's not for any of the depth to step up and and fill the gaps for them it's it's for them to have games like this and for me personally it's it was a showcase of what the Leafs can be because last episode I was so mad about how they seem to lost their offense and they can't come back in any of these games and they came back in this game and it was a beautiful win and you you get excited because you you say hey maybe this team actually does have the offensive talent that they had last year and that they're never out of it so hopefully they just build upon this and they keep going and the stars continue to step up it's the first game since january 4 where they've scored more than three goals like yeah it was it was a dry spell and it wasn't good and

something like mitch marner had uh six plus two is eight nine shot attempts uh six were blocked yeah one one shot on goal mitch nine attempts mitch i want you to hit the net more i want you I want you to not send so many pucks into screened areas, but the fact that he has nine attempts in one night is great stuff. He was hitting something, Jesse. Well, first of all, his passes were absolutely unbelievable. He had four hits last night. Nice.

I don't know what his career high is. It's got to be that. I think the most hits he's had in a season is 75. Wow. And I want to say this season he has 25. So the fact he got four is quite a bit. He played angry, especially down the stretch of that game. I think he was trying to give it to Dougie Hamilton.

You think so? Yeah. Because on the Matthews' third goal, Hamilton was screwing with him behind the net. Then they got into a battle in front of the net. and when matthews buried it marner like goes nuts and i think he started looking around for hamilton who had gone to the bench right and that was part of the reason that the goal went in it was well hamilton wasn't been called on a penalty he cross-checked him right from behind it wasn't an awesome line sheet okay piggybacking the officiating conversation we were having

i think they're calling the rule book the way they did last year except for cross-checking's fine yes it's back cross-checking is back it's totally speaking of cross-checking back adam larson on sydney crosby yeah yeah why did one of the best players ever go down the tunnel you got cross checked directly in the spine yeah and i'm no disrespect to adam larson but he's not selling tickets uh it doesn't i don't i don't need to be about that i don't need to be about yeah but it does a little no because this is an entertainment product kill mccarr could cross check connor doer in the spine and i'd be like okay but like yeah okay you're not allowed to do that eh you know what i mean yeah anyway uh mitch marner had a friggin uh the kind of game you need to win

when it matters uh william nylander on his breakaways and leads the league in breakaway goals he has four that's that's the league league and he's second in the league in breakaway attempts So he's right up there with anybody. Who's first? Can I ask? I don't know. I saw it was Mike Kelly who was tweeting out those breakaways. That's a neat stat.

I don't know who was first. I didn't really track that. Mine is Owen Tippett. So Mitch Marner is already two assists shy of 50. He has more assists than there are games. Weird stat for Mitch Marner. Each of the last three years, including this one, he has averaged 21 17 21 17 and now 21 27 in ice time uh and he has now 701 points guys i want to

talk about just a quick thing for him before we move on about the fastest leaf ever he is now the fastest leaf ever to reach 700 points man fast i remember his first game remember his mom got up and went to the bathroom and then he scored and she missed it and she was like ah there'll be more um which she was absolutely right mitch marner takes a lot of shit mitch marner has can't imagine from who also done show yourself name that but but he takes shit because we see the magic yes so when the magic isn't there you're like why not mitch marner 700 points faster than any leaf in nhl history uh that's a big fucking deal man that's crazy we've talked about this before like the offensive talent on this team uh it just feels like once every week or two

they're breaking some kind of franchise record to the point that we just completely take it for granted yeah because they and the least franchise records were not great no like in order to get 700 points with the Leafs you need to be a Leaf for a long time and a lot of guys weren't Leafs for a long time and if they were they weren't nearly as good as mitch um he's been absolutely friggin fantastic and he's he's playing his best hockey of his career it's not just some lifetime achievement award he's playing the best hockey of his career last night uh the third period is one of the best periods i've ever seen him play it's awesome it's fucking awesome how many of those what percentage of those 700 points do you think you've seen in real time like on tv or in person

yeah it's got to be like on tv or in person like how many games have you actually missed in the last 10 years oh i've watched all of them unless he got up okay let me think like there was how many lfrs have i missed in mitch marner's career i well i don't think you've three three yeah isla being born i don't even know what the isla being born and then like a couple people died like like it's it's not a ton so you'd say you're minus one on the birth versus death ratio what what is it probably should have another kid even that out huh you know what yeah we gotta take background um wow jesse did the leafs address it at all in the dressing room afterwards did they talk about mitch and 700 points or did yeah i know mark masters asked him about 700

points he was like what'd he say uh it's very cookie cutter cookie cutter answer about like hey gotta have a lot of great teammates to have to get all those points that's the thing yeah it's a good good uh post game for mitch mitch marner going full shorzy in interviews is uh i hope he continues to do it i really do i genuinely do like he doesn't he doesn't need it we reach the weekend and steve dangle famously on the steve dangle podcast on monday said that steven lorenz on the first line would make it to the weekend and it didn't make it to the end of the game i think adam i don't think you weighed in but i know i was on the other end where i said it wouldn't make one game or it would last one game and that would be it uh why do you think they did

it steven laurence or lawrence we're calling him lawrence but it's it's pronounced lawrence right but i'm not calling him fedotov so like i'm gonna call him lawrence lawrence played call him what they want to be called he he yeah he wants to be called lawrence 455 last night oh he does lawrence no he does he said he's fine with lawrence is what oh my goodness it doesn't what does he want we'll figure it out ask the fucking guy you're fine with what do you want i'm gonna figure it out okay jesse next time next time i talk there you go uh 455 last night least amount of ice time on the team okay so i don't think that's necessarily a reflection on him but no i just thought it was funny a lot of time because well yeah look at uh david kampf

yeah uh uh 537 and look at connor doer 534 so i'm not i'm not analyzing the fourth the fourth line wasn't out there a lot because uh they trailed nearly the whole they needed to play the big guys the whole game i just thought it was funny you thought it would make it to the weekend oh no and now he has played the least amount on if anybody on the team wrong i remember i was like man what's his career high yeah it's nice time oops oh well you're not not gonna be right all the time or even most of the time exactly um i just want to mention uh last night if you saw john tortorella losing his mind it is it was just a regular thursday but uh he was he was losing his mind because um uh maxim siplikov uh hit ryan paling in the head uh and nhl player

safety has just announced that uh siplikov will have a hearing for the illegal check to the head today phone they didn't say if it was in person or not that which is frustrating uh mcdavid uh the elbow on marcus johansson and johansson is now on ir i can't believe and and connor was like yeah i was just unfortunate dude you swung that like a chicken wing man i'm on now what are we doing here i know what are we doing here i mean it was subtle it was real so i don't think it was you look at the replay he not only just gave a go i'm skating i'm skating watch camera on me for a second he goes la la la wham la la la you don't need to skate like this who's maddie maddie disagrees yeah no oh you worked that and he went down like he was shot who uh johan yes yeah well

that's why he was injured that's why people thought he was selling it though ah because if you well then you know what if you're nhl player safety why revisit it well again i go back to the crosby thing i'm like okay so why is he going down the tunnel then why is marcus johansson hurt yep right like sometimes accidents happen and collisions happen it's hockey whatever the reason i said it's subtle is and i think i shared it in a group chat or two um i saw an old clip of mark messier playing against the russians i think it was like the 87 canada cup or whatever it was decapitate a man yeah that's not surprising remove is he did a he did a neck up lobotomy you just spin his head around on a swivel and i think he got two minutes like we're talking

jumped left his skates elbow like this like on an upward angle that's two minutes mark go sit and think about what you did for a couple of minutes. That guy was permanent brain trauma. Yeah. Don't worry about it. He'll be out on the power play. Hockey is so different from what it used to be. Like, even though it's just utter barbarism

once the playoffs begin. Yeah. It used to just be ice crimes. For sure it did. But we didn't have the concussion research we do now or the rules. And that's 87. And this is 25.

Yeah. Oh, no. It's just his head hurts. I think McDavid got a, I think he got lucky. I think he got the McDavid pass on that one. If he does it again, they're going to have to call him and be like, listen, we might find you $2,000 to $5,000. The McDavid pass works both ways.

Yeah. I think the NHL has just been like, okay, listen, Connor, there's an infraction against you eight times a game. So we're not going to call all eight of those. We'll give you two. On good nights, we'll give you three. And you get. and in return you get to brain whoever you want he also it's interesting uh that game i can't

remember guys if um he had scored the point before or after that play but that was the game where he passed yari curry for second all time in euler scoring which is crazy and he's only got 650 more points to catch gretzky or something like that he might he might be the first uh well i a second player ever first since gretzky to hit 2 000 points i think he i think he's already more than halfway there yeah it was or it's maybe it's 850 it's an insane amount of points like it's crazy it's no no he has over a thousand points no what i mean is like to catch gretzky he might have another 850 i might got that wrong no gretzky's 669 60 and 69 and mcdavid's uh 1046 so just just with the oilers though just with the oilers yes just on the oilers is still

top like 12 all time all time something like that holy shit do you know holy fuck do you know how many games gretzky played as an oiler uh to get to 1600 let's say 650 i'm gonna say 625 696 wow but mcdavid's 1046 in second place is done in 687 games yeah they're both he's nine no but he's nine games off of where gretzky was and gretzky is 600 points ahead of him i i think nine games oh i know 600 points uh-huh that 92 goal year he's an alien yes gretzky i think could have hit 100 goals like i think there was some opportunity he he agrees yeah i think he feels like he should have gretzky entered his final season with i think it was 885 goals and he retired with 894 yeah because he just is like i can't do this couldn't do it uh

it 63 assists though uh despite just nine goals but he could have hit 900 what uh sydney crosby I will wax poetically about at any given opportunity by the time he retires he might be considered a top five forward to ever play the sport and McDavid's gonna pass him in his sleep yeah yeah David is gonna pass him

in his absolute sleep different style but yes yeah sure if you're not aware Ryan Nugent Hopkins he is one two three four five six seventh all time in scoring that's pretty cool seven

125 points. That makes him 7th all-time in Oilers scoring, which is pretty darn cool. I didn't realize that Alish Hemsky had had 477 points as an Oiler. Why are there rankings all over the place? It's ranked by

maybe games, goals? It's goals, yeah. Because I have it just set there. Record type points. It is a weird website. There you go. Now it's sorted. it the just nhl's regular stat page is so much better than their all-time dedicated stat page

did you know you can't get team save percentage on the stat page i know it's frustrating nhl yeah which is so weird i don't understand that i was gonna walk your arms for save percentage stats because i don't know why they they don't consider it a team stat they consider it a percentage yeah an individual goalie stat i think that you couldn't get a more steam team stat than that right it's just it's a it's a function of both goalies and how your forwards and defense play and your empty net yeah true actually i feel like i don't know i feel like empty net shouldn't count towards save percentage unless it's i guess if it's a team stat maybe but a goalie they don't they don't right because if a goalie's off the ice it doesn't count against their safety yeah

no a goalie doesn't get no no isn't isn't it just shots versus goals yeah we're talking about from i guess if you're just calculating that from the team perspective but an individual goalie if you allow it there's an empty net on the ice that doesn't go against your save percentage no what do you what do you mean no i just mean no okay i disagree what no i don't know i don't know what we're doing i'm just being a dick yeah anyway okay glad we got sidetracked there um no shout out the oilers what a history they have who have like that's just such a silly mishmash of names it's like hall of famer hall of famer hall of famer hall of famer alice hemski hall of famer hall of famer jordan everly charlie huddy like doug wait

hork sean horkoff really yeah i guess he was there a long time is newt you gonna pass glenn anderson oh uh he'd have to 725 glenn anderson has 906 he has not had a great season i don't think so a bit better recently but by the way glenn anderson might be the most underrated oiler of all time like that is those are great stats yeah because because you had gretzky messier curry like out of them where like what was the highest glenn anderson was ever ranked on the Oilers. Fifth or sixth best. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Two in five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge

yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. Let's move on to the Vancouver Canucks who have got to be at a breaking point. And we'll start with morning skate yesterday. JT Miller looking not thrilled. His ice time has been down.

And I'm going to spoil this one for you. It went downer during the game. But let's have a listen to JT Miller talking about it in the pregame. JT, your ice time on the trip, has it decreased a little bit? Is that, in your mind, what do you think has led to that? Yeah, I don't know. I probably could play a little better.

I don't know. Look, over your time here, there's been a lot of success on the ice. You've been praised. At times you've been criticized. But you've always kind of been the emotional heartbeat of this team. That emotional side we've seen less of, just from the outside. Do you see it that way? Like, do you feel that part might be a little bit missing,

or how do you see where you're at? I don't know. It's probably for you guys to interpret, right? I'm not really conscious of it. JT, LA's a team that doesn't give up much offensively. What's the key to creating those opportunities against them? You have to be willing to play an ugly game, get inside, get cross-checked, be physical, stuff like that.

If you're committed there, you'll have success. just get a bit of time um before the third period of the last game you know talking to the trainer there's been some suggestion that maybe you're dealing with an injury i know you're not going to get into specifics but how healthy are you you just answer your question i'm good so i don't know everybody i don't think he did answer the question uh nope he said i'm not going to get into specifics yeah that's that's his way of saying oh yeah i understand sure um i mean his second answer kind of says it all i'm fucking done with you assholes um he's just fed up with the media entirely and sort of came to life when he was asked about and i'm not criticizing the

media when i say this the game when he i think he's so tired about being asked about everything surrounding hockey that he's like just ask me about the friggin game in front of me and then he got asked about the la kings and he's like all right here you go now you thought that was coming to life well compared to the other three answers i thought i thought that answer too was just like it was terse i'm just gonna say words so i can get this over with it was you gotta cross check you gotta yeah that's it the overall the overall theme was i'm just here so i don't can find yeah yeah it was yeah i was i'm listen everyone is on jt miller right now it deservedly so and i'm just reason i know i'm trying to give him any little breadcrumb i can what if he hasn't

earned breadcrumb no hey hey what that's what the money's for yeah yeah like that's what the money's for i know he's not loving it right now but adam adam makes a valid point i i think a lot of people are gonna be like listen he's a human being he's clearly going through a hard time i don't think a lot of canucks fans are gonna give him that give me give me a sec sorry he's he's he's uh he's going through a hard time right now but how much money you make per game probably a lot you gotta play and you gotta play well you make what does he make eight and a half yeah come on man jesus so that's a hundred grand per game how many forwards make more money than him pd i think that's it How many Canucks make more money?

He makes more than Quinn Hughes, doesn't he? I don't know what Quinn makes. I want to say it's seven and a half. Or maybe I'm thinking of his previous deal. Dude. Whatever. You're the second highest paid forward on the team. Yeah.

We need you. Now, let's have a look at the fourth LA Kings goal. Jesse, I just sent it to you. And Steve, this will illustrate your point beautifully. Because we need you. and what's important when you will describe it for those listening when you're watching the number is nine that's his number watch and this is where you know we saw some of this back in the covid bubble and then the season afterwards under travis green jt miller when he decides to

not play defense is a straight leg guy now if you're looking at the screenshot here jt miller go back to just the beginning there jesse jt miller's got pretty good position here he is the guy that the puck is at the bottom of the screen with that defenseman JT Miller is the guy coming in on that defenseman notice he's wearing a leather a letter excuse me and he's gonna he's gonna get beat here by this defenseman and for the people listening defenseman at the blue line on the near boards JT Miller is going to gap up on him and he's gonna get beat pretty quickly and And getting beat is fine. Defenseman dangles, it happens.

But here, if you keep going through this, Miller kind of, sort of chases him. But look at this. The puck actually gets intercepted by the Vancouver Canuck defense. They close in on 22. Straight leg. And look at Miller once Fiala loses. I think that's Fiala, isn't it?

22, I think so. Yeah, and look at Miller. Straight leg. Keep going. Straight leg. Straight leg. oh a little bit of a turn straight leg straight leg man straight leg that dude is back out there having a like public escape if you're listening to this i want you to imagine pure luke dubois

last shift in columbus remember that how that went viral honestly there's an argument that last night's performance was worse is there dubois last game in columbus because there wasn't the whole performance around it there wasn't the the huffy pre-game um there was obviously the bad play during uh talk it sewered him well i've got i'm going to that yeah yeah but we'll we'll we'll get to that um and then the whole performance on the bench so miller uh miller and talk it get into it a little bit on the bench basically talk it just says go sit at the end of it is that do we know that that's what happened that's what they showed on sportsnet this morning on uh on on you know where tim is doing the uh the highlights yeah and they said you know you

see talk it they iso talk it and then they iso miller and miller gets up and moves to the end of the bench now um rick talk it said a bunch of things that you would expect the head coach to say during the press conference but jesse if you'll fast forward this clip if you're queuing it up to 329 he gets asked specifically about JT Miller is our coaching staff and the players we got to figure this out another low minute night for JT where does he need to fix what is what needs to happen for him to get back yeah he's struggling he's caught in between you know he's he's seems like every time he's on the ice something bad happens I think he's got some bad luck but he's also got some reads that he's gotta he's gotta look at himself right now focus on some of these

reads i mean you can't dive in on the forum for things like that i think um i think he's trying sometimes or i think the focus level has to get a little higher on the other end of things you have to pause it so here's my question to you guys um are vancouver canucks management throwing the season away by not making a move on this we i mean we talk about this quite often and uh where i usually come to because i think the canucks are a good team i've thought it for a long time dating back to them not even being in the playoffs um i think they're a good team mm-hmm and they're a great team a stanley cup contending team when jt miller is on in the fray with everyone else, you know,

because, like, look at last year's playoffs, took the Oilers to the brink, and you didn't even have Elias Pettersson playing well in all that. And I think the Canucks are looking at this like our best version of ourselves is with JT Miller on the team. If we trade JT Miller,

we're not going to get fair value for JT Miller in the same way that if we trade Petey, we're not going to get fair value for him. And now I think it's just poison. This isn't, all right, hey, come on, let's encourage him. Let's try to, no, I think it's poison and it's an enormous distraction off the ice and on the ice, it's causing pucks

to hit the back of their net frequently. It's not good. And engaged JT Miller, Jesse, is one of the best playoff performers we've seen. I loved the way he played last year in the playoffs. Do you think that the Canucks are hurting his trade value by having him play like this in anticipation of a move that is now almost guaranteed to happen? If you're another GM, you're happy about how this is unfolding right now in Vancouver, because you look at that and you say the worse that JT Miller plays, the more I can take

advantage of this situation and the less i will have to pay for jt miller once i acquire him and he is then a good player again because i think wherever jt miller lands whether it's this offseason whether it's before the trade deadline he's gonna turn around and be a good player again because usually people in these situations it's that situation once you take them out of it there'll be that jump in that boost back to his his usual self so it's it's definitely it sucks for vancouver but what can you do besides try keep trying and plugging him out there like you're trading him at the very bottom of his value isn't great no and i don't know even if you had jt miller playing at the best of his abilities though that the vancouver canucks are a very good team this

year because they've been hurt by so many injuries and the way they're playing hockey isn't a recipe for success they can't um they just got heronic back they they did but they can't uh defend they can't defend the lead um that's uh throughout throughout this entire season they've struggled with holding big leads and they're giving up so many rush chances i saw some of the the stats on the rush chances that they're allowing they've allowed the same amount of rush chances uh through this point in the season that they allowed all last season they're a completely different team defensively and i don't know if having a good jt miller helps them and this just might be some sort of a no i don't know if it's a lost season if you sneak in into

the second wild card but i don't think they're going deep in a playoff run so you might as well hold on and get maximum value for jt miller let me um uh let me show you something because i texted you the shift chart sure um from this game yeah from this from this game what let me just click oh yeah sure go ahead i don't know why i screenshot it you literally have it up yeah um he's near the the top um so you talked about like just having jt miller out there and you try to force it he's not out there yeah look at the shift turn he's not out there they're not playing this player so it's not a matter of uh just keep playing him and push through and we'll get through this They're not using this player.

And it's $8 million. Dude, it's over $8 million or whatever it is. At this point, you'd be better off trading them and throwing someone, anyone else in the lineup because if you're not even going to use the player, if you're not even going to give them the opportunity to rectify this situation, then we're done here. easier said than done i could see like a trade happening with the canucks and they send away

miller and they get like value back in pieces but it still doesn't make them good you know right you're never going to replace jt miller one for one yeah and you're not you're trading jt miller i don't know fixes the way they're playing defense yeah it's kind of the top of this draft is real good that's what you're thinking about now ah oh they can't be i don't not fall that far no but maybe if you get two or three picks and you're able to get up into the lottery wow i think they're they're good enough where there's enough pieces where it's more of like a refresh well like sneakily the most sad sack miserable embarrassment in the league this season the new york rangers who have been good they've won three straight yeah the east is so

bad the east is bad but is it bad or even maybe it's both yeah um they're not entirely out of it they're i mean it's unlikely that they get into the playoffs they're not entirely out of it so like even they have sort of been able to uh right the ship i don't know this situation has been going on for so long and it's getting worse and it feels like it's at the worst it's ever been I don't even think it seemed this unfixable when Rick Tockett got hired and we were talking about how the Canucks can't re-sign this player because he was playing like this guy. Then the second Rick Tockett shows up, he's not playing like that anymore.

I don't know. I think maybe the sun is set on JT Miller as a Canuck. Can I say something really stupid? Go for it. Great. i look forward my favorite thing to do great uh just a thought but the islanders the islanders have brock nelson they have jg paggio and a history of trading together with the vancouver canucks i mean that's i mean the we won't talk about the cory schneider trade

or that was devils but yeah you know what i mean but like what i'm talking about lou has done deals with vancouver jt miller for beau horvat let's go i mean they're not gonna put bow and jt on the same team again are they no no no trade them for each other i know they're not gonna do it i know i know it just feels like it'd be funny though it'd be hilarious right they're not i'm i'm i'm trying to think of like what outsider team like would barry trot step up and go what do we got he's got three first round picks need a center man that like let's think outside the everybody's like new york new york new york like well okay if the new york thing was going to happen don't you feel like

it would have happened uh with the nhl the obvious answer is usually the right one um but like if you're the rangers i don't know if you're looking to offload mika's advantage at right now islanders is kind of an interesting one well they just won't put bow and jt in the same it'll have to but we're back going the other way but there's uh there's a there's a pre-existing trade relationship there yep yeah i don't know it could be a thing i mean the market is there for jt miller but he's done playing for this team with with jt miller i think yeah his value is terrible right now but there's also an element of i i think when miller is playing poorly he gets more leeway than petterson because when petterson's playing poorly people are like i don't know if he has it

long term and when miller's playing poorly people are like oh he's just grumpy and like he goes somewhere else i think there's evidence on one side you know well yeah i think i think every team who's in on jt miller right now is like i could fix him a hundred percent and they might be right maybe they can fix him maybe i'm trying to be a hipster about this and looking at teams potentially that he could go to that are non-new york and like i think nash will be cool i think utah would be neat for kerfoot yeah or from bc well they've got they need a center back like bukestad plus i don't know i i keep going back to cj talking about what this trade would look like and they want a one or two center in return which is crazy like these deals don't happen mid-season

let me go back to what i was saying last show you got to be calling barry trotz before you get to the bottom of your coffee every morning ryan o'reilly you are a canuck dude it might make sense i don't know if ryan o'reilly wants that if you want a quiet life that is maybe a bottom three media core you want yourself in front of yeah um but if the canucks have aspirations of not stinking this year and getting better and being a playoff contender doesn't ryan o'reilly make a ton of sense in that deal you want to center back for jt miller i'm not saying one for one i'm just saying that's interesting that is interesting uh let's uh shout out mike kelly who had the uh rush chances stuff the second time in the show

It was rush goals. I said chances, but rush goals, just to get it right. The Canucks are about to play their 44th game of the season. This was before last night's game. They've already allowed as many goals off the rush as they did last season. Wow. They need to fix their defense. They're allowing a rush goal a game?

Yeah. Poor. Not good. No. Don't like it. Two in five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk.

Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. Um, the headline, I'm switching gears here. The headline is Tristan Jari wasn't there when the Penguins needed him, which feels like a breakup post. Uh, that's from Josh Yohe of The Athletic. Uh, Kyle Dubas spoke to the media yesterday, took responsibility for the signing the contract.

He said, you know, it was the first couple of weeks that I was here. Uh, I just got here. And he said, you know, you, these are the risks you take and you never want to make the wrong decision. but you know or you try to make i think the quote was you try to make the least amount of bad decisions that you can um and uh you know they asked well is he did warn and this is so kyle dubas like don't write the obituary yet even though joshio he did because goalies can be streaky and if kyle dubas if kyle dubas pens fans back me up on this one allows tristan jari to play

for the pens again uh they're an injury away from it happening and he's got like this this is this is crazy so there were you know some articles done on this but one thing that i think is interesting and i'll give frank servali some credit here for for coming up with this uh he talked about some of the moves that ryan or that dubas made and i've been hammering this drum July 1st, 2023, this is where it was bad. Like it was already bad with Ron Hextall and Brian Burke. We acknowledge. He didn't walk into the best situation.

But part of being a $7 million a year executive who names himself general manager is you have to then take responsibility for the moves that happened while you were there. And the Ryan Graves contract's interesting because it's six years, $4.5 million. Ryan Graves in 31 games this year has not registered a point.

what i didn't know that what what he doesn't have a single one not one i know that's not necessarily his bag but not one not one geez he's 31 games played zero goals zero assists minus eight i just threw the plus minus in there because it was something other than zero a negative eight is less than zero Yes. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. And that's just one. I'm cherry picking there. But, you know, you're talking about a guy that is under tremendous fire. And Kyle Dubas has what amounts to a no trade clause as an executive because he's making seven million dollars. uh he's in year two of a seven-year deal so whether or not you're a fan of what kyle did um you're stuck with him if you're fenway sports because if you fire him the contracts are guaranteed in management you still have to pay him so he's going to be here and a lot of penguins

knows that all too well uh yeah oh yeah now penguins fans are trying to give dubas a little bit of slack i've seen some of them try to give him a little slack where it's like okay but like it was already messed up before he got here yeah but that's why they hired him and yes and yes the july 1st 2023 as i keep saying isn't that the plight of every gm ever yeah oh yeah oh man i know i took over a perfect situation isn't that crazy it's so rare the only one that did was stan bowman in chicago stan bowman julian breezebaugh inherited a pretty good thing in tampa but it's rare it's rare and so and again it's not that i don't think kyle can do this but i have to question um well we i think you'd be wrong not to question the the reasons why

he made some of the trades that he made like you even look at the eric carlson trade you did oh you had one in mind what do you got well okay if i have five goals in 31 games are things going well for me as a forward no okay what if i told you that was in the minors still not good what if i told you that's rucker mcgruddy he's scoring at over half a point a game uh that's not what you want from his sister all right you traded jaeger for him though he's 20 yeah man uh you know what's else you know hey do you remember what was in the eric carlson trade um jesse do you know you know what michael grandland and michael grandland with the san jose sharks has 37 points in 45 games he was not a great penguin that should be pointed out penguins fans were like yes get him out of

town okay but if you're going to be the guy that says well listen don't write the obituary on the player right oh yeah you've already written several you didn't need to do the eric carlson deal if you're dubious you didn't you really really didn't it was you had latang you didn't need carlson there were cheaper options if you needed a backup for latang but you but kyle loves eric carlson he's a sense fan who doesn't and he saw eric carlson at his best with the ottawa senators who was he was the greatest defenseman in the league at the time like amazing coming off 100 point season with the sharks but still 100 point season in a norris trophy you didn't need to do this damn you didn't need to do jari you didn't need to do graves but kyle has this thing

where I need to spend to the cap before we even hit the ice in preseason. And then it locked him in to this team, which didn't make the playoffs, which seemed unfathomable going into the 24, sorry, the 23-24 season. They don't make the playoffs. And then at the end of 24, they can't make any moves.

They can't make any moves. The Penguins, you know, there are some teams who can do no right and some teams who could do no wrong and some teams who suck up an unusual amount of oxygen. The Penguins fall into that third one. Like whenever they're doing well, it's just what we expect of like not even the Penguins,

just the team Sidney Crosby plays for. But every time they lose a few games or they go through a rough stretch or something like the Jari thing happens, which usually coincides with a tough stretch uh we just we talk about them from the beginning they used to wear powder blue jerseys and blah blah blah and they got their expansion team in the 70s and or whenever it was yep um it's just uh to pull a kyle dubas uh uh classic out we always have to do a referendum on the pittsburgh penguins okay let me whenever they

go through a rough let me give you this yeah this isn't a referendum on the penguins it's referendum and do this fair i'm going to name some players for you tell me what they have in common got it hurdle thomas her hannifin hannifin henrikh monahan oh you're on a run of h's alias lindholm sean walker oh no lindholm has an h in it yeah but okay sean walker how sean spelled thomas adam answer the question thomas hurdle noah hannifin adam henrikh sean monahan alias Lindholm Sean Walker what do they have in common uh all dudes who were traded I want to say last year right during the trade deadline last year yeah also interesting all of those players fetched first round picks okay okay Jake Gensel did not Jake Gensel who was I believe the biggest

free agent deal July 1st nine and a half what was the trade uh the trade was uh let's let's look at the j i think it was michael bunting they did get michael bunting they got a roster player uh let me just pull it up so i make sure i have it right uh gensel to the hurricanes uh thursday for bunting vasily ponamarev and villi coivinen and the rights to cruise lucius which i remember that because it was what a name and a conditional first round pick which didn't end up being a first round pick because he didn't resign there and a conditional fifth round pick oh carolina also got ty smith so that's a lot of uh the penguins needed to restock their cupboard yeah and none of those guys by the way were listed in the top five in the carolinas in carolina's pipeline oh from uh

from uh scott wheeler oh kyle yeah yeah even though you got some prospects there you have to get a first round pick an unused first round pick because i don't know if any of those prospects are first michael bunding has 25 points in 44 games this year which is fine it's fine it's not it's not great he had a bad start but he's been better lately he did have a bad start he was so freaking good when he got there yep he might have had as many points as cancel yeah like after the trade oh man i mean listen i want the penguins to always be in contention because of their responsibility to the sport to the history of the game with crosby and malkin and throw latang in there

where are they going where are they going that's not even my question guys my question is how much longer Sid Gino Letang how much longer oh those guys I thought you were gonna say Dubas no no I already told you Dubas is a no move yeah he's gonna be there he's gotta pick a direction first well you gotta listen this is where the hard conversation happens because Sidney Crosby is dictating the direction he wants to be a penguin he wants to win the cup okay you want to be a penguin or you want to win the cup they are not together they will always always always be compared to the Washington Capitals. The Capitals have found a way

to preserve the end of Alex Ovechkin's career and they wrestled it from a situation that was going south fast. No kidding. It was going south fast and I said from years ago that they were in a better spot because they drafted really well,

they have young players, they have like generations of Capitals. You could be like, these are the old guys, these are the mid-tier, these are the young guys, the next guy's coming up they're in good shape right now they might win a cup this year but penguins are just here's close here's the problem though uh the capitals were able to make changes

they weren't locked into a salary cap they were they they took a risk on pierre luke dubois who's worked out pretty well uh uh i think dylan strome has worked out amazing they've taken um wild wild swings they got jake chikrin or jake chikrin for nothing from the senators nothing they got Matt Roy on a good deal. They signed him. They took risks on goaltending. It's worked out. Took a risk on Mangiapane as well.

But you know what else they were able to do? What? That Dubas has not been allowed to do. And this I put on Fenway Sports Management. Get a save? Get a coach. Oh. And they have a coach who's got a no-movement contract.

Five and a half million dollars from Mike Sullivan. I believe he's, if not the highest, the second highest paid coach in the NHL right now. And I'm pretty sure Carberry would have been high on Dubas' list on account of, I'm pretty sure he hired him in Toronto. He did. yeah man i don't i would love to offer some sort of easy solution with the penguins um i wish i wish they were able to offer their fans more than a week or two of light at a time how long jesse how long do you allow sydney crosby to determine the future of the pittsburgh penguins how much longer i don't know if he's doing that i know that sid just wants to win

hockey games yes and he wants to say a pen but the two can't happen together well i don't think sydney crosby looks at it like that i think sydney crosby looks at it as as long as i'm here i'm gonna try and win hockey games does that not him does that not mean he is determining the outcome of the penguins because you are yielding that to him do you not say by not sitting down with him and going sid we really just don't have it anymore sure but i got a revamp kyle dubas has the freedom to do what he pleases and if he wanted to trade everybody off the roster and and tank for for the first overall pick like he could do that regardless of if sid approved it or not so uh the management is clearly in agreement with Sidney Crosby

that there's still potential there if they continue to try and push towards a playoff spot. If this conversation is a thing, I think it's already come and gone. Yeah. I think it's already come and gone. You signed him. The ship sailed. He's here. He's staying there.

He's staying there. I'm going to believe that he's staying there until it is announced he's gone. Okay. Which I don't think is ever going to happen. I agree. I'm just wondering how much longer are they penguins going to be in purgatory uh two years for when crosby retires yep that's bleak that's really bleak is that a responsible way to manage a franchise which by the way has stopped from what

i can understand announcing how many people are at the games anymore i mean if you this is i mean crosby drives the bus here beginning middle end um but the way he came into the league is he got to play with legends who ushered him into the nhl on a alarmingly shockingly viscerally disgusting sad sack team the 0506 penguins yeah and the penguins teams before that bad bad they were uh bottom they ended up getting jordan stall second overall out of a season where they had a rookie score over 100 points. That's how shit they were. They were awful, awful.

But they laid the foundation for future success, and look at that, they won a cup, Crosby's fourth year in the league, Stanley Cup finalist third. The rise of the Pittsburgh Penguins was breakneck speed. Maybe that's what happens here. Maybe Crosby wouldn't mind that. maybe the penguins just say screw it for a couple years because mario did it hopefully you get a little bit of lottery luck yeah and you usher the next generation and maybe it works out that way

maybe you end up with a porter martone or a michael misa or a uh what was it schaefer oh yeah schaefer schaefer looks good yeah you know there's some real good players available like maybe you're able to get them maybe you're able to do that big swing but in terms of contention i don't know how you do that okay the you're the attendance thing is that thing right that they don't announce it in the arena i'm not i'm not saying well i don't think most teams announce attendance in the arena anymore yeah um but i haven't remember how that was like a big story and it's just gone away go watch a penguins game they're they're not full right but like attendance numbers like that's something that's you can just look it up on the game log you know

for each game like last night i can tell you those four two crack in they had 16,314 people that's roughly underselling by 2,500 which is what they were doing in the fall too right they're not hiding attendance numbers or anything certainly it's not being talked about the same way i i i mean it's so last year their average attendance was 17,909 this year it's 16,635. That's the average? That's the average last year versus this year. Yeah.

Let me throw something out there. And this is maybe not the greatest comparison on account of the Avalanche Blue with 3-0 lead last night. But you got... Your best goalie by save percentage this year is Joel Blomquist, 9-0-4. And I feel like that's skewed

because I want to say his first two, three games were good and then he just got... Shelled. Shelled. um tristan jari 886 boo bad terrible get out of the league alex nadelkovich 886 you're great you're our only hope they have identical save percentages it's hilarious how differently they're being treated but maybe it's as simple as they're a goalie away from being relevant yep it's tight down there at the bottom of the east like you get a goalie who can give you a 905

nine ten for longer than the eight games blomquist has played i don't know maybe you're fine maybe you're fine maybe that's how maybe you just get some damn saves but i still have a really hard time envisioning this team making any kind of impact yeah okay do you think letang and malcan stick around too i think carlson is untradeable at this point uh unless you're retaining big money well yeah there you go in which case then he's valuable imagine you get eric carlson at five million mama i'll do it every team in the league would line up for that sure um ah man could the saving grace also be gentlemen that the cap's going up to 97 million and they have some expiring deals and all of a sudden hey i could hey nola chari's making

two million bucks i could move that it could be a great opportunity to dig up dude i'm trying to i am trying to go hope here i know pens fans like you're being awful hard on us i have to be this is bad but like it's out of admiration it's out of admiration we i think we spend a lot of time on the peng on the penguins because we're fascinated by them and are you know if there's a game on and it's penguins versus pick a team i'm probably where do they play uh kansas and the kansas pick a team the kansas teams and i'll root for them i'm uh arizona was right there steve come on um if the penguins are playing pick a team odds are i sort of want to watch the penguins win it's Crosby I want to watch Sidney Crosby do Crosby things come on I want

to see him in the playoffs again I think it would be a crime if he was never in another playoff game the avalanche are playing the Oilers and the avalanche are up three nothing and I'm watching that game hoping for what an avalanche shutout let's go Connor do some zoomies and then he did and it was fun for everyone but Drew. It's fun. Like you cheer for greatness. I think a lot of basketball fans for a long time sat down on their couch during the playoffs

and they were like, I am cheering for or against LeBron. Or for or against the Warriors too. Yeah. You know, a lot of people don't like to give the Raptors credit for that win in 2019, but i still remember the graphics from before that final started uh they had the map of north america and it's like all right who do you want to win the final and it was raptors nearly across the board because they're like you know what the warriors that's enough that's enough out of you

we're cheering against you because it's more fun to cheer for david if you use the capitals as an example and use the warriors as an example the warriors benefited from the the cap jumping huge penguins could do that never know never know okay so we'll leave it there jesse do we want to do a uh a press conference or we're gonna wrap uh what do you want to do let's wrap okay let's wrap all right let's do a wrap shout out the ottawa senators uh getting good generational goaltending right now out of uh levy unbelievable is he the new hamburglar we shall see could be no that's uh that's already jakob dobish so yeah i know there's two of them in canada unbelievable holy cow other thing don't look now the columbus blue jackets are in the first

wild card spot oh boy great story man there are two points clear of the sends who are one two out of the playoffs behind the bruins what a race we got these i love it i love it interesting league this year man the steve dangle podcast follow the guys on twitter at steve underscore dangle at adam w y l d e and at jesse blake connection complete two and five canadians will hear the words you have cancer that's why every step and dollar raised matters on september 19th join thousands in toronto for the princess margaret cancer foundation walk challenge yourself friends and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research together we can carry the fire and help create a

world free from the fear of cancer register today at pmcfwalk.ca real canadian superstore has everything you need this back-to-school season save on lunchbox savers like ziggy's sliced deli meat products for always 375 and get life brand pure vita shampoo or conditioner for eight each. At Real Canadian Superstore, when you're ready, we're ready with a whole world and more.