The Steve Dangle Podcast - Not Again | June 2, 2021

Episode Date: June 3, 2021

On this episode of The Steve Dangle Podcast, Adam tries to make us happy (00:00), what do you do with Mitch Marner? (07:30), revisiting the trade deadline and the Leafs lack of secondary scoring (47:00), where do the Leafs go from here (1:06:00), and Adam speaks on Residential Schools (1:27:00). Originally aired: June 2, 2021 Watch the full episode here: https://youtu.be/uVXQuVRvIBo Visit https://sdpn.ca for merch and more. We've joined The Athletic and you can too! Hit the link to subscribe: https://theathletic.com/sdp Visit this episode's sponsors: https://www.getroman.com/sdp https://freshly.com/sdp https://ca.manscaped.com/ Follow us on Twitter:@Steve_Dangle, @AdamWylde, & @JesseBlake Follow us on Instagram:@SteveDangle, @AdamWylde, & @Jesse.Blake Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

tina you're ready martina you're ready the steve dangle podcast with your host steve dangle adam wild and jesse blake I think this mug is from season, season five or six. They have a new mug every year for people listening. The Maryland dentist show on CTV. Does it taste like mom? uh right now it's tasting like a poorly made coffee that i made too fast um and i don't want to know what mom tastes like thanks very much jesse that's uh quite damn quite disturbing i'm

not really sure jesse jesse that's the worst thing we're gonna discuss today and we're talking about the leafs again like good lord i give i give both of those topics the same kind of screwed up pinchy face but you know that's me you know what jesse jesse no he makes funny jokes most of the time jesse makes funny jokes at least four times out of seven every time would you say jesse could close out a show oh you know even if jesse lays back-to-back duds at our feet i know the next one's gonna kill and do you think he has the experience too would you say that he has the experience steve no what i finish it i mean i just like that he doesn't make excuses and i just like that he's always there and and just never lets me down always repeatedly

i just really i like that about him you know what we're going to talk about today with respect to the rest of the playoffs uh i'm sorry it's so funny that the leafs tragedy is the biggest story in hockey right now but frankly it is uh because everybody in every market is interested in how you got stephen a smith talking about it i mean this is this is bad uh so um jesse did you want to did you want to uh well we've got i know we've got audio kicked up for that do you have the stephen a smith yeah i can play the stephen a smith play it i was i want to cheer people up i was on espn uh plus on the app that's where his new show is and i i couldn't get it in canada to play the full clip so i only have the 18 second one that was uh going around on twitter but yes

i will play it right now so maple leaf's right there on the dallas cowboys of the nhl the dallas cowboys of canada just failures on an epic level every year it's true failures on an epic level every year pretty much sums it up they don't fail a little they fail hard guys like like we said last episode had they been swept it would have been less noteworthy look at them they're kind of calmer than us i've watched the dallas cowboys in the super bowl in my lifetime yeah so what i would say to steven a is nope not bad enough I want to cheer you up with a couple of things before we really get started here. First off.

It's not going to work, but continue. There was a man who gave Kyle Dubas an A-plus in the organization, an A-plus in April. The same man today said this. The two teams that have been outside, sorry, the two teams that have been built by analytics are both on the outside looking in. The Toronto Maple Leafs and Edmonton Oilers. Now, this is someone you should never listen to ever again. Pierre Maguire, you know that, you know what he's going to say, but Pierre Maguire, not

four weeks ago, gave the Leafs organization and Kyle Dubas an A-plus and is now ripping on them for using analytics. It's, I think, I mean, we know the analytics debate is over, but Pierre is your uncle who still needs to talk about Nam. Like there's that, I mean, you know what I mean? You know, it's, it's that, it's that not, not actual uncle that went to Nam with respect. it's more like along the lines of you know that there's that there's guys that are just talking about the good old days and they're still reliving their golden years no he just needs to be

brilliant he needs to be brilliant and and that's yeah yeah he can't just it has to know my brilliant eye that has been uh just rejected from coaching for over two decades now my brilliant unmatched eye is is the only thing here and and i just i need to know why stations need to keep bringing pierre mcguire on to say the exact same thing well because somebody poisoned the waterhole you're my favorite deputy analytics are alive fucking woody ass opinion i don't care it's funny can you believe he said that yes because he's got one thing to say i gotta i gotta ask tsn montreal if they can just stop asking him about analytics. Like, stop.

If you have to have him on, stop asking him. Because everybody knows what the answer is. And they're pretty intelligent hosts over there. So it's not as though, I wonder even if that question was prompted. I wonder if they're like, hey, how do you feel about analytics? I wonder if it was just,

here's how I fucking feel about analytics. Yeah, to give them the benefit of the doubt, I'd like to hear it, you know? Because Twitter is always a tough place because anybody can write a sentence and it looks tough, especially when it's from these hockey aggregator accounts where it's like pierre mcguire said this everybody go get mad and then they do right well i know i love to hear it he did say it arpin basu was tweeting about it um i know that he said it

it's just a matter of did what context did they prompt it all right did they prompt it and was the question like because i could ask pierre the question hey you know how do you feel about you know how the leafs went and he could have gone well if you look at the two teams that are on the outside looking in it's the oilers and the leafs and they like analytics and by the way the oilers were not built on analytics so i'm not really sure where he was going with that the reality is why we needn't spend much time on this i was just making it i was bringing it up so you'd laugh and i hope and nobody did because we're just upset because it's been an angry 48 hours let me try let me try this guys uh antonio brown has signed on for cryptocurrency can i make it can

he said i've just saw it decided to join d's nuts coin and they stand for uh and what they stand for and i'm going all in on d's nuts and uh it's a uh they're trying to raise money it's a it's a it is a like a bitcoin sort of thing it's a cryptocurrency but but um they're trying to raise money to fight cancer in testicular cancer and that sort of thing but i just thought and that's awesome he's nuts coins which i thought was kind of funny right that's kind of a cool initiative i joined these nuts points who's gonna be the first person to be cremated and put in an nft earn like when did everything become a meme jesus it's funny i read an article today saying that nfts have like fallen off a cliff in terms of value in the last month and everybody's like well we all knew this was

coming it's the end and i'm like well they just sold uh the charlie bit my finger for 750 grand so i think they're okay yeah and and uh and beyond that this is how cryptocurrency works it's wild swings in the market so i don't think i think it's a little early to be calling the nft thing dead um it's just a matter of maybe it evens out a little bit you know volatility guys why is the stock term what why are you making me record today like just let me die i don't i feel a little bit more sober and better about everything so i i do want to i think i've gotten worse i'm surprised okay so this is good this is we should have this talk so obviously you know the story the leafs and the canadians the canadians win the leafs do not i think

from the montreal side um dino and gallagher and price deserve a ton of credit caulfield and cock and yemi who should have been playing since the first game uh it's funny how once they play the series shifts um uh you know it's it's i think they made a bad coach look really really good to be honest so full credit to the montreal canadians players you cannot convince me that uh dom du charme i almost call him jeff uh is a good coach he's not but this will probably save his job that made me probably you bastard yeah and uh and it probably saves bergemans as well so good for them players came through and that's what you hope for the disrespect that i felt that kyle dubas was served and this is an odd odd spot i felt like with the effort

in the um effort and the and i'm setting you up steve for this because this is a point you made a year ago against columbus the disrespect this team shows to the general manager who paid them all paid them all especially the star players any any and he's extra attentive when a player's hurt or they're in hospital they're going through something always goes to bat for them in the media and he's willing to take the hit from the media and he goes at the targets that the players don't like that gm who's has paid an unbelievable amount of money to a group of players that has been outscored 11 to 2 in their past three game sevens or or deciding games because deciding games game yeah game seven game five then game seven and it's all or nothing it's it's an all or nothing

game it's when your best game is supposed to be and they've been with different supporting casts but the main players stay the same outscored 11 to 2 including a shutout over their last three final all-or-nothing deciding games. You don't stay young forever. When's this team not young anymore? When's this team not young anymore? When is it just part of their DNA that they're chokers? Like, when does that happen?

How kind was I and was so much of the fan base? Ah, they're great defensively, though. look at their defensive performance they lost again again and now we're never going to hear the end of this by the way like you expect

you expect Montreal Canadiens fans to have a good week and they're going to bring this up forever they're going to bring this up forever the Bruins still like they have an album to to reference but they always go back to 2013 because that was the best one always play the

hits kids always play don't play i don't want to hear you know the the leafs and bruins went out there and they recorded game 7 2019 and they try to go out to every leaf bruins concert and all the bruins fans say enough of this new shit play the hits and they go back to 2013 and they and they and they show the jack edwards clip and they go oh yeah that's my jam to talk about the dragon and the dagger for a team that shouldn't have even been in the playoffs let's go encore as as jack edwards throws guitar picks into the friggin crowd at what point is this just who you are like i don't i don't last year who'd we give it to dubious because this wasn't right with the team and this wasn't right with the team and this

wasn't right with the team and we gave it to Babcock the year before and that was a mistake not firing him that very day when they got eliminated 2019 was a mistake and I called it and CJ's like nope the Leafs liked their game five and I thought what a bunch of brain worms in this organization and they actively decided why don't we be dog shit for a month and a half to start next season so they tried that and they discovered you know we don't like being dog shit anymore so they went out and they got sheldon keith to be the head coach and they were good for a while and then they played and the team showed oh actually we're still not very good we're actually kind of crap then the young guys got a year older

they added jack campbell he became the starter he signed tj brody the best defensive signing 25 years since robert's failure seriously since robert's failure i'm not kidding like like it was the last good defenseman they signed in free agency like pretty far back you It predates the not winning a playoff round slump. They get depped at the deadline. Nick Foligno, I mean, no one asked him to get hurt. I give him a pass on that one. It's an expensive pass.

We'll come back to that. We will. We will. I know what you're going to say. We will. I don't know what I would change about this team, so you have to look at the core. You have to look at the core who you coldly and sociopathically look at.

You cannot take feelings into account. How do you feel right now? Any fan in this fan base feel loved by this team? We're so far beyond caring about anybody's feelings here. You shouldn't hurt them. you should anyone who goes to a player's like instagram page and leaves a comment saying that they suck or whatever after a loss like this you deserve to be put on a watch list you do i don't there's something wrong with you i don't feel safe sitting next to you on a flight like like

there's you shouldn't have a license and in all honesty if that is you please speak to someone you do need therapy and i'm not joking you do need therapy it's a yes it's a definite need in your life and if you don't recognize that that's a problem then you for sure for sure need therapy run it by five people in your life ask them if that's okay yes seriously or you're a child like you're or you're literally like under the age of 18 you're 11 right yeah yeah yeah and this is what you do with your spare time so other than an 11 year old yeah because i know 11 year olds who are mean online and that it's okay because they're 11 because they're like call of duty against many of them and they destroyed me i've been on shell in a chat room with 11 year olds it's not nice

no i i always lose video games to 12 year olds and they go good game sir oh yeah every time and also your mom like it's uh oh boy yeah i had to get off halo pretty quick but beyond not being Intentionally nasty You don't care About feelings And listen Who traded Nazem Kadri? Who?

Himself Naz traded himself Naz traded him Nazem Kadri traded Nazem Kadri Now we yelled at Kyle Dubas For the return But Nazem Kadri pulled the trigger on that trade and blocked another one that would have brought T.J. Brody to Toronto

in the first place. So not only that, Nas screwed us in the playoffs and then screwed us in the offseason. People do forget that. Yep. And yes, I understand that's his contractual right, but let's call it what it is. He traded himself and he got to pick to where?

Lucky him. But he traded himself. The Leafs and Mitch Marner, the contract saga was so ugly and so horrible and everyone hated it and then we said well now you're getting paid star money why don't you go out there and be a star and you know what mitch marner did he went out and he was top five in nhl scoring the first year with his contract uh no but there was an injury involved and a coach firing and blah blah and his points per game was very good it was very good so and then obviously the panini happens yeah this year we go all right you got a full season ahead of

you well a full you got a new start anyway you got a blank slate ahead of you and this dude finishes top five in scoring you led the team in points in the panini season too did you not yeah i'm pretty sure he did and and uh you know the games where matthews was out he was still very good like you talked about needing to step up and he did um let me just let me throw a stat at you mitch marner has never scored less than 42 assists in a season that's so many assists that's that's insane his highest 68 it's a lot of assists pretty good and he had 47 and 55 games this year like and scored at his highest goal scoring clip yes what was on would you say jesse was on track there's a 30 goal pace yeah 82 game season it's pretty damn good so outside of

like let's pretend he did fine in these playoffs but they lost anyway let's pretend you got let's pretend you got two goals three assists it's a whole different 48 hours no it's not and here's why okay okay it's the flavors the flavors a little different The flavor's a little different, but the truth I am about to say remains the same. Okay, let's hear it. Let's hear it. Our warm, dumb human brains will think about it differently, but here's the ice cold truth. After that stupid, awful, shitty, poorly executed saga was over, all they had was games, and he did well in them.

But they signed a six-year contract thinking that by the end of it, the cap would be at least $90 million. Mitch Marner didn't ask for a pandemic. Kyle Dubas didn't ask for a pandemic. Darren Ferris certainly didn't ask for a pandemic. none of the parties involved asked for the situation that we're in that has turned all our lives upside down and for hockey purposes kept the cap flat this year probably next year and who knows how far into the future and the difference is you need to seriously evaluate this is before this season even began the difference is now that your plan is shot

shot this we're gonna sign these guys it'll be expensive but it'll get cheaper as the contract gets uh goes on that plan is shot by the pandemic so his top five scoring um uh performance alone like before that even happens the plan is shot and now that they had the terrible performance in the playoffs you need to literally call teams you have to call teams and offer them this player now you're under no obligations to trade this player you don't want to emotionally trade this player you can keep this player you can keep this player and he'll do great for you he will but the reality of 2021 is not the reality that you signed this contract in in 2019 was it 2019 i think it was 2019 i think it was your reality is worlds apart from that one and you need to

seriously consider trading this player the only thing i'll say to that is in your world he could have had a playoff performance that justified 11 million dollars yeah and then and then like you said caldu was built a great team with him on the roster so he could do it again and he could have just showed up and performed like the amount of money and then you wouldn't have to trade yeah i'll say this it's very unlikely you win a mitch marner trade so i don't have a few things to say about that but we'll get we can go keep going with this guys i do want to i want to address that one particularly sure like i just you don't trade him for nothing and you're not eager to trade him but you have to start the dialogue i i think i don't think mitch marner is unique enough

to the point where you don't have to where you can't not trade him because austin matthews in his role is a once-in-a-generation guy but there's not the left wing first line slot isn't so unique that you can't get a player who will lead your team to victory in that role on the in the lineup sorry right wing sorry yeah so it's not like you can't get another right winger on a first line that can help your team win if that makes sense it does and like backstrom never once nicholas backstrom never once got or i think asked for alex ovechkin money we knew who the star was we knew who put the puck in the net you you put most valuable primate out there with alex ovechkin he probably set him up for a couple

one-timers for god's sake not taking anything away from one of the most underrated players of a generation in nicholas backstrom but i don't think the capitals for one minute were like let's give these guys a near equal amount of money and right you don't have to win the trade you just have to win the slot in the lineup that's going to help you win a round in the playoffs because like I see one of the big conversations that's happened in the last

two days is okay it takes teams in the NHL a lot it takes cores a lot of kicks at the can to win in the playoffs it took Ovechkin from the day he was drafted until 2018 to win a Stanley Cup 2004

to 2018 it took Tampa Bay so many chances and then And they got swept by Columbus, and they still ran it back again because the GM and the whole club believed in them. They brought back the core. Two trips to the cup final. You don't trade Crosby and Malkin just because they have bad playoffs. I've seen that a whole bunch of times.

I worked at the Zoo story is bringing up the 2019 Toronto Raptors because that's my favorite sports team of all time. And with that championship run, I learned that the regular season means nothing. absolutely nothing it's I feel bad for Leafs fans next year because they're gonna sit through 82 games and realize that hey it means absolutely nothing you're 82 games it's about I can't wait to do LFR for 82 games you gotta do it it's your job so they don't matter but they don't matter they don't they don't they're exhibition there's exhibition

and then there's exhibition that counts and then there's the playoffs right you have you have your warm-up it's your 82 games And then that's your warmup to win in the playoffs. But the thing about the kicks of the can with this team is that the bar is so low with all of those franchises with, Hey, Malkin and Crosby, they had a bad playoff. You don't trade them. Uh, Ovechkin didn't win a cup till 2018. The bar for Matthews and Tavares and Nylander and Marner isn't to win the Stanley cup or

go on a deep run. It's just to win a round. Yes. like so the the bar for fans is hey close out one series you've had five tries at this what one series with three attempts to do it it's not go win a championship it's win a round and we'd be happy so that's why i'm like hey hey there's a couple guys here you didn't show up in the only part of the season that matters you showed up in the preseason where you got to practice to get into the playoffs you show up there but then you didn't show up again in the playoffs you don't

get another kick at the can because your bar for success is that is that the ground you can walk over it and you couldn't do that at some point you just you can't so if i might i was listening to um you know in a lot of this the attention circles around mitch martin i think it should i think it should you have high paid players that you expect things from i you know it's funny with matthews i know he'll figure it out with nylander honestly there are focus issues there but if that guy was on on his game like he was yeah well what i'm saying is i'm talking about the regular season oh yeah you're right 100 he was spectacular i thought he was the best player in the series for the leafs um him and jack um my issue is uh um and the reason why i tweeted what i tweeted

which was i think this is very likely mitch marner's last game in toronto um it wasn't an emotional thing what i saw this series cold it was cold i what i saw this series steve you bring up the cap considerations and by the way there's going to be a lot of people going who the hell would take that albatross of a contract well everybody 48 of it's been sold or sorry been paid so as soon as july 1st hits um you're or sorry that will be the percentage of it that's paid mitch marner's average i think is going to be 6.25 million dollars in actual dollars in cash yeah and people will be like well who the hell could take a cap hit of 11 million well there's plenty of teams plenty of teams that would love to have that and don't and they want dead money

there's a lot of teams that want dead money because it means they fill the cap space without actually having to pay the player it's great now it's here sorry well it's as if luke fox is listening to our show somewhere on one of our walls he just tweeted fun fact since joining the team mitch marner leads the toronto maple east in playoff points per game with 0.78 okay so that makes me feel so much worse this guy's the best one like what a nightmare go ahead adam what a nightmare i hate these guys i hate this team i want to tear every one of these things off the Whoa! Go ahead, Adam.

Sorry. To be fair, he's one of the only guys that's been here this long. Yeah. Number one. Number two, he should be. He should be the leader. He's the leader in the regular season in scoring. He should be the leader.

That shouldn't surprise you. I think what is particularly jarring for me, for what I saw in these playoffs, from the play on the ice, and you could show me stats that you might be able to show me stats, although i don't think you can uh that that would maybe challenge this mitch marner style of play it's not that he doesn't care i heard elliot friedman talking about on anthony petrelli's podcast for maple leaf's hot stove before this i was listening and elliot's like you know leaf fans think he doesn't care he clearly cares he's clearly devastated i have never once thought that

mitch marner lacks passion for the game i've never once thought that mitch marner is a bad person um like we said earlier if you're one of those people that's like he needs to die alone in a forest you're fucking nuts and you need help yeah but i am going to criticize his play somebody said to me the other day you know i think mitch marner is probably the best perimeter player in in the league and i think they might be right and when we talk about what's basketball you can't shoot threes right and we talk about what succeeds in the playoffs though it isn't that game so i don't know that it's, I'm not sure that it's that he doesn't want to. In fact, I know that it's not that he doesn't want to, I'm not genuinely sure that he can. I'm not sure that the game, the

Leafs need from Mitch Marner is the game that he can deliver them. I don't know of like, you know, you look at a guy like Patrick Kane, Patrick Kane, great hockey player, perimeter player sets a lot of people up, but you'll see Patrick Kane drive the net. I have never once seen Mitch Marner drive the net especially lately i i don't think it's possible i think and then we get into the whole situation with and this is diverging from my point a little bit but still along those lines um i i think when you have players that that create issues in front of the net which the leafs did a terrible job of in this series um you can create a lot of scoring chances in the playoffs as we saw and there's a report it wasn't a it wasn't a problem right we don't want to do it

anymore there's a report out there about mitch marner wanting to not we're not wanting to play the goal line on the power play now not being a systems uh a systems guy my assumption would be it's dangerous to play the goal line it sucks to play the goal line because mr tucker played the goal line yeah because the n because because nhl defenseman will blow you up they will even on the even on the penalty kill you watch guys dance along the goal line towards the goalie with the puck they always get crushed. Now, Mitch Marner came out today and said that was a lie. I have to tell you, the people reporting these things are people that I tend to trust. So here's my main issue with this. You've got Mitch Marner saying, absolutely not true. I

would have played the goal line. You've got Manny Malhotra, who's running the power play, who makes no changes on it from the time it goes dead about two and a half months ago. And you're going to tell me that a coach who sees what's happening, who's looking at the numbers, goes, no, I'm fine. I'm going to keep it the same. So Justin Bourne said something interesting about that because he's worked closely with the Marlies when Keefe was the head coach. And he said when something's failing, like the power play or the penalty kill,

Keefe gets closer and closer to that failing problem. so we by the end of it uh he he's unsure if Manny Malhotra was actually in charge of the power play it might have been Keefe who's making some decisions at the end there because of how much of a failure it has been during the regular season so what I would say it looks like no decisions were made at all because it was the exact same power play each and every time so let me let me say this just let me say this if if it's untrue that Mitch Marner said hey I won't play the goal line on this, then go out next year and prove it. Go play the goal line because that guys like Ray Ferraro are on the radio today saying that is what you need to do. That is what

you need to do. And Ray wasn't verifying it. He said, but if that is the case, we've to be successful in the NHL. These are the things that you need to do. And I am not certain. I know that Mitch Marner's game lends itself to the regular season. We've seen that top five and scoring the guy's unbelievable I am not convinced in regular in playoffs when things get tight and you know like you can you can throw your his points per game at me he hasn't scored a goal in the post season since he signed his extension so that's two two playoff two playoff series he has not that is 12 games he has not scored a goal that is not okay he has eight assists in those 12 games that's okay he's almost completely shot out of the scoring in game seven or game five situations

i'm sorry i don't know if his style of play lends itself to what the leafs need when it comes to the postseason you know the least can make the playoffs can they score and succeed in the playoffs what we saw i i don't believe it could it not only be his style of play but his mental toughness like i hate questioning that in players but we all watch the games can you not tell me that that's a guy who looks nervous well the puck over the glass penalty steve you brought it up last episode that's unbelievable it's visibly nervous though and arpin basu tweeted it out and like i didn't tweet anything but like i i can't remember if i said anything during the stream but i'm looking at the faces he's making i i was talking about his body language at one point i was like i was like

bro like this game's tight you're gonna be fine like you can get one next shift everything's gonna be fine man like i'm dr anxiety and and i'm the one going bro you're gonna be okay everything's gonna be fine man and he was the most visibly nervous guy on the team and I don't think that's unfair to say no one's going oh you're weakling you can't do it

fortitude there are people saying that those people are idiots nerves are real there's been an interesting conversation around athletics and basically

mental illness and you know naomi osaka kind of at the at the the center of all that but like like i'm watching the guy make faces you know what i mean like and it feels it's like you said about the uh the points per game thing he's been here the whole time and this is part of the reason a big part of the reason why he's getting hammered Who else has been here the whole time? Austin. Matthews, Nylander.

Just won the Rocket. And I tell you what, I kind of think Marner had a better series than Austin did. I mean, Austin didn't look good at all. Let's just be flat. Flat out about that. He was not good. But so often the Habs attacked. Matthews did a dogged job on defense of getting the puck back.

And then Hyman and Marner brought the puck up together. alone with Matthews miles behind them and it didn't work it just didn't work Philip Deneau also did a fantastic job like not enough credits being given to their top line on shutting down focusing in on Matthews so that you leave Marner to make plays and he was unable to do it and especially when once Tavares goes down right yeah then you know who learned a lesson here to take out you know who learned a lesson here Sheldon yeah oh we're not afraid to put him out against anyone yeah maybe not next time eh like maybe don't say that next time eh the 25 minutes for each of those guys Matthews and Martin might have been a little much maybe you had to shelter them

a little bit more give them less so they're not drained out by game seven Tavares is out and felino is hurt and i'm no no no they're making world beater money beat the world i agree we're not even asking you to beat the world we're asking you to beat philip dino gallagher with a broken thumb and a guy who was a healthy scratch into tar and a goalie that frankly barely even made it in time for the playoffs i mean he's hurt we know price is hurt there's a lingering issue there and i and weber charotte charotte i i can't wait for whenever the habs playoffs are done and we find out what's up with ben charotte beat the fuck up by the end of that series the leafs hammered that human being weber went into that series hurt oh

it's revolting but sorry i need to continue my point so we talked about marner matthews we talked about his problem kneeland he's been there the whole time oh well you know what he had five goals and he didn't have his regular center so okay i'll give it to him riley we need to oh god no he was head and shoulders above how he was in the regular season he was great he was all right all right now who else do we give it to who else has been there the whole time freddie sitting on the bench ready oh he was the backup and he did great great in that role really great he did great in that role so like of the guys who have been there the whole time the most disappointing are clearly marner and matthews and matthews and what about hyman oh there's hyman you know what he came into the

series also hurt and for the last three games all of which they lost he was pretty clearly the most effective forward on that line you can't look at zach hyman and say that he didn't play hard you never can and didn't get chances he had breakaways and he had that one timer in game seven and you go you know what you got to bury it well fuck no he's not a finisher yeah he's who's on his line he has two guys who are supposed to finish for that line yeah if you're relying on a zach hyman breakaway to win your playoff series uh you're not gonna win much but at some point there was a point in game five or six where he was like oh okay like i gotta pull i gotta pull the trigger here i gotta be the trigger man because like these two can't get a shot through

and marner did a good job feeding hyman for that for that one goal it was essentially marner's goal um hyman had great chances on the power play breakaways one-timers he was always shoving it in always uh in the blue paint he was he was the best forward he was the best forward uh back half of that series on that line how many god like you can't get eight goals out of kneel enter and combine and lose campbell cannot have a near identical save percentage to price and lose you can't get a series like that at a morgan riley and lose you can't get so many of the things that you got out of this series and and you know we talk about sample size and that's the playoffs we're not even talking about the whole series we're talking about

three games that's a good point three god game four is their best playoff game since we were in high school jesse wasn't even in high school yet jesse wasn't even in high school like i i and how do you this is what i'm talking about with the lfrs guys sorry what you can't even blame the muzzin injury because it should have been wrapped up by them they came they overcame a two nothing deficit and outshot the habs 13 to 2 with muzzin out the whole time the entire time five defensemen they played they went up man they went up three games to one without Tavares the entire time none of it is an excuse so what the this is what I'm talking about with the LFRs what happens when the thing that you're best at becomes the thing that you hate

oh man welcome to you welcome to most people's jobs i think that's pretty normal you can hate your job you're allowed to not like doing lfrs for a while you still have to do them though yeah that's not a choice that's that's that's you know dude listen i love what i do i do i love what i do for a living do you think that i like it every morning adam do you like waking up at five in the morning fucking hate it i am not an early morning person there are mornings i walk in there and jesse sees me and i'm fucking grumpy grumpy especially if there's construction oh fuck me every goddamn route to to 260 richmond street west right now is down to one goddamn lane and i'm fucking stuck every morning and it takes me 15 minutes longer

now no what i'm saying traffic is not part of your job yes the whole thing is a part of your job yeah and let me tell you this how about how about this steve when you work really hard because here's what they do so i prep my show the day before as just as this jesse we all contribute to a google doc and then in the morning we line up what we're going to do you know what's great when you work your butt off you prep you give up time with your family every evening and you put a show on the air and some jackass texts you and goes you know what fuck you you're only here because your mom's maryland dennis that's happened that's happened before i don't think that's the same lfr but what i'm saying is do you think i like my job in that moment i do not like my job in that moment

sometimes it sucks to do what you're best at you this is what you're best at so on the other whenever i get mean comments like that i'm not like oh i hate doing this i'm like i hate that asshole who right that's and and and it's early and it's this and it's that and then you know maybe the ratings are shitty that month for whatever reason then you got to deal with the fact that the ratings are shitty and you have no control over it i think the point i think the point here is steve you need to keep doing the lfrs regardless of if you hate yourself every time you do it yes exactly like i miss i miss being a kid and these guys were superheroes and they could do no wrong and now i'm just like you're literally some dude and you happen to be

good at hockey and when and you lead us along and when the playoffs come around you kind of stink and then we do it again growing up's a bitch huh it sucks like not to be that depressing but like in your fandom when you realize that hey a lot of these fans care about this team more than the guys on it it's a it's a sad day but it puts you in a place and you keep cheering on and you know here's the thing you look at a guy like kawaii every raptors fan cares more about the raptors than kawhi leonard ever did but won a championship so that's fine well and and oh man he's a great guy and and that goes for so many players he's a great guy and here's a picture of me with that guy and yo what how do you know that guy you had a nice experience he's a hockey player yeah that's

how you know that guy yeah he's a hockey player the hockey players play to win when you don't win they get yelled at like i don't know it's not odd that any leaf is getting yelled at today and we're talking about yeah the the fact that you know maybe some of them need to be traded that's why the on ice criticism is something that's necessary from fan bases and from media personalities because that's what we're here to do because you you're in this position we're not here to judge your your character or anything we're just here to judge your skill at this dumb sport that somebody invented that we watch and we root for certain teams and we analyze them we're talking about your skill and if it's not good enough you need to go and they're going to get another guy who's

going to play hard enough there was a um there was a rumor out there that mitch martin went golfing yesterday and people were like of course you fucking did and i think if that is your reaction although that's sort of funny optically so fucking what man like he's allowed to go golfing it's the only thing you can friggin do here in ontario anyway but but regardless of that even if golf if golf is his passion he's just been through the ringer things suck he deleted his social media before the playoffs they're listen my thing is it's not about who these people are it's about i don't doubt that they're good people i'm sure they're flawed this is about lack of results it's not even performance sometimes it's results and i don't think that this team the way it is can give

you the results and people go what the fuck are you talking about look at these numbers and i'm not talking about like even dom decision would be like this is fucking ridiculous and people like hey dom looks like your model's broken dom dom's model doesn't account for what's between the ears okay he doesn't account for historic collapses year after year there is a problem in the dressing room i don't care how much these guys like each other that's really nice what i do what i do care about is the results that they get and boy stinkers every year i do want to get to the trade deadline steve go ahead well his model accounts for how astounding this is yeah no no number from anybody stop acting like it's dom stop acting like it's j fresh stop acting like

it's a it's it's it's a money puck money stop acting like it's sports net stop acting like it's espn everybody who was asked with their eyes and with the numbers and with their heart and with their brain said the Leafs should have won the series and the Leafs went out for four games and they said you're right and then for three games they went actually fuck it they didn't care and also in defense golf is the number one activity to participate in when you don't want to be anywhere near any other people yeah so it the it might have just been some dude at a golf course who's a leaf fan he wrote down mitch's name on the uh t-box or whatever on like hey here's this tea time it's mitch marner and they yeah it could be anybody on twitter like there was no evidence

for this rumor right and that with my point of that is who fucking cares right even if it was who fucking cares um i think i think at the end of the day here i i'd like to move on from mitch marner because you know marner and matthews didn't look great i get the feeling that matthews can work this out i don't get the same with marner i don't think his play style that's my opinion i don't think it lends itself to the playoffs sue me if i'm wrong sue me i i there it is line in the sand and he could score score 120 points for the leafs next season until i see it in games one through seven in in series one with the leafs i don't believe it two and five canadians will hear the words you have cancer that's why every step and dollar raised matters on september 19th join

thousands in toronto for the princess margaret cancer foundation walk challenge yourself friends and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research together we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer register today at pmcfwalk.ca and what better way than with a delicious pret organic coffee starting at just one dollar all day every day now until december 31st at participating a and w locations in ontario now i do want to talk about the trade deadline because rahif isa uh she she had a sort of a one of those mind-bending tweets and it made me remember how i felt the day that felina was traded to toronto i thought at the time and tweeted at the time that seems kind of steep

and we talked about it on the show i felt like this is a lot for a guy that i don't know here's the other thing that's come out we know now that felina was injured before the leafs got him son of a fuck oh my god so taylor swift who scored taylor swift oh taylor hall who scored three goals in the series for boston not saying he would have scored for toronto would would taylor was a second round second round pick now at the time you're like well at least you're scoring goals and bunches who cares felino who did not score and could not play because the injury got worse was injured before we gave up a first two fourths and a sixth rounder for him what was the injury and who said it it's a knee injury um and i don't believe i i don't remember the exact but

it was he was injured before he got to toronto and here's the other problem and i think this goes to the overall team problem you're gonna hear a lot of people say oh the leaf's problem is depth i think what they mean is secondary scoring and what i mean by secondary scoring is you got marner and you got matthews and you've got joe blow doesn't really matter who's going to play on their wing next year probably not going to be zach hyman we'll talk about that with chris Johnston when he's on the show next episode, but I don't think Hyman's going to be back. Neither does he. Your secondary scoring once Tavares goes down is led by William Nylander, right? And William Nylander is your secondary scoring. Whom among us expects a goal from literally anybody

else? If we got a goal from Spets of this series, we're happy. Thornton got one. Engvall is not going to score goals for you. Mikheyev is not going to score goals for you. Kerfoot's going to score some but it's pretty rare he was good i think there's a huge drop off in leafs secondary scoring and if you look at the colorado model which is the model you should be following especially for a team constructed by the leafs what we did was we got a little gritty and hearty and then we doubled down on it again at the trade deadline and what you should have done is go who's the best player available how do we get them the bruins do it every trade deadline and look at them look at them they get the best player available every fucking deadline every single time now

sometimes it works out obviously rick nash was i think there was a concussion there uh and i believe before that there was hartman uh but then you get like taylor hall who's spectacular i think i think you got to look at this situation and go okay we have unbalanced scoring here pierre Langvall cannot score. He can barely score in the regular season. He's not going to score in the playoffs. Maybe one. He's gone.

But look at the rest of the lineup. Who in there is like, okay, Mikheyev has missed. I think when he got a goal all year, he missed every single opportunity to score he ever had this year. I think he had seven, but like he really, I swear to God, if he could shoot, he's a 20 goal guy. like the amount of chances he gets he generates chances he does shoot he's a 50 goal guy i know he can't shoot though mckay of stat line in uh the playoffs by the way was the old sam mitchell

thing it was zero zero zero no goals no assist no points like the biggest criticism of him isn't that he didn't score it's that he was not a factor right well and he is not a factor he was a factor all year he had a couple of good games game three and four he really was great I and I even tweeted about like damn this is the Pierre Engvall I want because at least he's a factor he's effective what do you expect from Gauchko into this series maybe a goal Wayne Simmons probably not Pierre Engvall definitely not Mikheyev definitely not Thornton maybe a goal on the power play well that didn't really happen Foligno it did oh sorry it did happen on the power play sorry one time felino and then spets it with three like look at the names i am naming here guys none of these guys

are guys who can score you have maybe hyman definitely matthews definitely marner definitely nylander and tabars if he's in you're expecting all those guys to score that is it they don't have any secondary scoring beyond william nylander who by the way is secondary so let's let's transition then because i i know why i'm so depressed right now so because i was sort of depressed doing uh i just did a podcast before this with um berkshire and mary there and i saw the tweet from cj while it was from the sports net fan account we're gonna have cj come on friday but the uh the tweet in question is about something he said regarding zach hyman and god damn you please load so i can read the thing you son of a gun okay here it is i'm gonna read

it to you in its entirety and i just need you to listen and bask in how in this dog shit ready this is from cj if the end result is him having already played his last game as a member of the lease it's unfortunate it's the business side of the game and frankly it's the most likely outcome given where he's at in his career the way other teams view him and what the Leafs can afford to pay him that is unless the Leafs make a big change that I'm not expecting

yeah because someone can offer Zach Hyman 5 million to 6 million dollars and it's going to be stupid and he's going to take it the Leafs losing Zach Hyman for nothing beyond it being a catastrophic level

of unacceptable would affect me like no leaf leaving since james reimer it's an own rental steve yeah i i i i will i will uh no no you can't you can't lose this player you can't lose this player and you can't lose them for nothing this goes back to you need to re-evaluate if you can have three 11 million dollar guys when the cap is not going up there was a scenario where you know what they can spend to the cap every year money lol we don't give a shit about that we're good hey oh you guys we we can't pay them 11 million dollars a year here how about we give them 15 million dollars a year here you go you're your signing bonus and we'll give you 16 million dollars and we don't

give a fuck we're mlse we'll give them whatever we want and then the panini hits and the cap does not go up and all of a sudden you can't afford Zach Hyman at half the cost? A heart and soul guy who possesses everything this team lacks

and they're going to lose another one. Nazem Kadri has something that we don't have in abundance and we're going to lose another one. That's what this team needs to get going forward. Softer. Softer. with less scoring depth and a

penalty killer, power play guy. He does everything. Zach, you're going to do face-offs on the penalty kill forever and ever. Oh, man, and we're not going to give you any fucking help. That's kind of weird, Mike. I'm a winger, but I'll try. Yeah, I don't give a shit. Get out there. And then

he did it for half a decade. The Leafs losing Zach Hyman, it depresses me. What do you do if somebody offers him 5.5 stop lfr because fuck these guys like no i mean as as the leafs like what do you what do you can't do anything about that situation if he's like hey these guys are offering me a ridiculous amount of money you know that's why you're proactive and you get on the phone and you go here are all my

expensive dudes and i'll tell you what this conversation extends to morgan riley um because he's got a year left and here let me let me throw something let me throw something at you okay so So, unlike last time, the Vegas conversation, it was very obvious they were going to do 7-3. I'm not convinced that's what the Leafs are going to do this time. No, right now it's... No, it should be 7-3, and then Kerfoot, you let him go. Yeah, they're going to lose him.

I think they're going to lose him to the... No, you mean 4-4. No, it's 7-3, and then you keep your defenseman, you let you can do four and four if you want you can't yeah no no because if if you do seven and three then jesse muzzin signed a term riley has a year left brody signed a term hall signed a term so are you exposing riley or who are you exposing did you got to expose one of the four guys i just mentioned no you want to do seven and three you want to protect all your defensemen

is what i'm saying i don't think you're understanding this No, it's seven forwards, three defensemen. Oh, I have it backwards then. Yeah, okay. Yeah, four and four. Yeah, my bad, my bad. So it's seven forwards, three defensemen. No, my bad.

That was award-winning between both of you. That was terrible. Well done. Protect as many defensemen as possible because you're okay to lose some forwards. So this is the thing. Matthews, Tavares, Marner, I mean, you're holding all of them, obviously.

Nylander. And Nylander. so there's four and then kerfoot you probably lose him and seattle goes absolutely we'd like to get him the end he's got two years left the least have already paid eight of the 14 million dollars involved there if i were the leafs i'd actually explore trading him because i think that's a player with value yeah get something now yeah or here's the other option you can do seven and three if you trade morgan riley who only has a year left and who by the way was wearing a yvr shirt in his press conference today and people like oh morgan riley doesn't want to be in toronto

anymore i think he's just wearing a shirt that's where he's from that's where he's i know i know but i'm just throwing that out no i'm not responding to i'm responding to the internet God, Adam, you're such an internet idiot. Trade Riley. And then here's the fun part. You trade Riley, you do seven and three, and then you still probably lose Dermott.

But like, that's not going to make your team sink or swim. I don't think. Freddie comes off the books, but you see what I'm saying here. Goaltender is not getting claimed, certainly. Because they're going to protect

campbell and who are you going to lose hutch can you imagine if it like what what do we do we just go thanks i think because you have to expose one that's part of the reason hutch got this to your deal they're like hey you're a good person oh and you think i can stop pucks you're a good person you're a great guy and and we gotta know and i think he was supposed to be a mentor in the ahl And then there was no ECHL And I think The Leafs goalie depth right now Is set up so perfectly

Like to have 2-2 Or sorry, to have 2-2-2 In the NHL The AHL and the ECHL Because they actually got a nice little Pipeline of goalies coming up But they're not close And they're going to hit on at least one

I would think, but they're not close So anyway Getting away from the goalies that's what we said about pokey and sparks okay fair enough fair enough no no what they did with pokey is they had an abundance of young goalies and they just pointed at him and they said you're the guy and threw rask in the garbage and lucked into reimer who they like found in like a dustbin somewhere that dude was playing In the ECHL, like the year before he started making stops in the NHL.

God, I hate this team. So Kerfoot is probably gone. I don't know how. Riley, you need to strongly consider it. And I love Morgan Riley. Too bad. It's not due to performance, right? No.

Circumstance. Circumstance. I want to say that so that people have that context, Steve, because there will be people who take you literally go, steve dangle doesn't like morgan riley's like what are the rest of the rabble on twitter i love morgan riley i love morgan riley and i want him to be a leaf and you know we all said in the play in the playoffs for the least to go deep lol he's he's got to be better and he was he was i cannot believe the performances the leafs got out of certain guys and the fact that they lost like

i i really the performance they got out of him out of spezza out of nylander out of campbell fuck you can't lose that goddamn series you can't you can't lose three consecutive fucking games it's unacceptable holy shit and now you're looking at a situation where you need to somewhat consider trading mitch marner strongly consider trading morgan riley and strongly consider trading alex kerfoot uh before you lose him for nothing like kerfoot very proved this series he's not a nothing player a lot of people are like oh he's seattle fodder blah blah seattle fodder you lose the only return you have remaining for nasm khaji for nothing yeah seattle fodder i don't think so can i ask you guys sure out of the four group you have riley

nash zach hyman uh wayne simmons nick felino alex galchenyuk jason spezza joe thornton all of those guys are UFAs. Who are you bringing back? Spezza Hyman. Yep. That's it. That's it. Thornton is not an NHL player anymore.

Yeah, no, we're done there. It's too bad. We saw it. I love Joe. Loved having him here. Thought it was so cool that he's in a Leafs jersey. Give him a job. Gallup?

I'm interested in Gallup, but I'm not interested in Gallup more than Liegman. Yeah. Somebody else will pay him more. Make no mistake. Like, he should stay here because it's a good situation, but they should offer him the least amount that they can to fit him under the cap, put him on Tavares' wing again next year.

The micro version of the Marner conversation is Engvall signed a two-year deal at 1.25 before the pandemic and after a hot start to his career. If we go into the summer, like, he's probably, we're talking, like, League men two-way, right? But he signed early. Lucky him. so you got to find a way to get rid of him if seattle were to grab him that'd be awesome the other guys i mentioned were riley nash um wayne simmons no felino and um you already did

i thought it would be cool but i don't think it's gonna someone i i think it was platinum c goes through like nick felino's uh post-series press conference is going to be in a car on the way back to columbus well uh i know that first off i loved having wayne simmons here and i thought he played great until his injury so if you're gonna have wayne simmons here it's got to be at a lower number and it's got to be at a reduced role doesn't mean you can't put him on the power play but i see i see wayne simmons as another guy where you're like wayne we love you we love having you here here's what we can offer you and you're probably going to play fourth line minutes less than the 1.5 you wouldn't bring back to the 1.5 again no it's the cap's goddamn flat

jesse like otherwise i'd say absolutely like if there was no cap at all yeah pam five who cares but it's sort of you know based on the economics of it um you have to try to keep zach hyman freddie's gone um and wayne simmons is a heart and soul guy i loved having him on the team this year gave them a swagger at the beginning of the season that they have not had for a long time and as soon as he was out they sort of lost it and but when we injured injured injured injured injured you cannot play more than 50 of your games i talked about ben charotte looking beat up by the end of that series simmons got his ass kicked man like yeah he he uh they went to war with each other simmons and the habs and uh i tell you what he took some guys with him but he was he

look beat up by by the end of it all i think he can be convinced and i think you can still give him you can give him like a mil 1.5 god this the the cap staying flat for like years at a time i don't i don't know what you're supposed to do and this is why the the marner conversation doesn't need to have anything to do with you don't like them no it's it's not sustainable to have this the plan changed the game changed what are you supposed to do there weren't any fans no one made any money the cap is there because of the money like and if you want to if you want to get freaked out by something else i've been reading that there are slight extremely slight rumblings about the mlse board being worried

about how much money they're spending on the leafs with little to no return and who could blame them they've got the biggest staffs biggest scouting biggest analytics biggest coaching biggest medical biggest everything that's a crazy conversation it's a fair question wouldn't you ask brendan shanahan the same thing so we've given you every resource imaginable we took l after l after L for a while, when does this get better? And if you are on the board, whether you like Brendan Shanahan personally or not, you have to ask that question. Leafs Nation is asking that question. We love Shanahan. Most of us love Dubas. There's like a few who don't, but basically it's, you know, Dubas is pretty well-liked. Shanahan is well, well-respected. And everybody is looking

at this going, yeah, little to no return. And you can tell me each year, oh, well, there's someone's injured. Everybody has injuries. Everybody has somebody major go down. You have to overcome it. And I wonder about if Maple Leaf Sports goes, okay, so maybe our organization's a little bloated. So maybe it's time to just keep the best people. The funny thing about sports franchises is they make their money in winning. You make your most ad revenue, your ticket sales, your jersey sales every single part of your business just goes up if the team on the field or the ice or the diamond just wins and that's that's a wild bomb if those conversations are actually going on i'm coining the term wild bomb for you out of wild bomb it's not me that's by

the way it's not my news and it's your reporting it's it's it's you don't blame them for asking and look at steve's face i just want to kiss you i'm so sorry i just want to tell you it's gonna be okay because it is gonna be i hate them i hate them so so how can i not day i hate you you're you're you're you know last year apparently what i said after the columbus series is the hardest thing to do is to do nothing and they did nothing with the core and brought in some pieces and we all thought you know what this is good and for the first the season it looked really good what what hole do you put in this team but if your team is not scoring from the top meaning the best players if michael jordan has a bad series the bulls fucking lose man if and you could say well

the nba is not the same as hockey okay let's take a bigger team sport if aaron rogers doesn't complete passes the green bay packers don't win right well it won't be the green bay packers for long if tom brady does not complete passes and game manage like he has at fucking 40 million years old with a brand new team. The Buccaneers do not win. You know, this is the thing. Your star players, I don't care what sport it is, your star players must show up. Do I think they're lacking in secondary scoring? Absolutely. But at the end of the day, this comes down to two names, Marner, Matthews. And I put Marner at the top of that because I am not fully convinced. There it is. Now, where do you go from here? Because if you do nothing, here's the other

option is and a lot of people are advocating this and i understand why guys a lot of people say you know what do nothing that's bad luck what do you say to that well based on you both of your analysis of the forward group it looks like four guys who are going to come back and that's taveras marner or taveras matthews uh neilander and hyman you know like those are your four and the rest are up in the air maybe spezza too and spezza so give it five out of 12 at your 12 starters you know spezza's a team employee who plays like and he's such a unique situation yeah yeah so let's give it five out of the 12 uh to your starters so more than half of your guys aren't coming back that's a that's a wholesale change that's enough i think where you come back next season you say okay this

is a fresh start for a new group of guys let's see how this rolls out but you gotta now now jesse so they're gonna bring in a lot of youth then i imagine nick robertson's gonna make this team there's one yeah there's one there's six players we'll get a look seven potentially potentially seven potentially by the way i would say if you are people are like what do you do with if mitch marner goes if you think you've got a player that's ready in robertson when you put neil lander up with matthews and then robertson with tavaris and let him come along like if marner stays put him with robertson that's great that'd be cool i want to see it let me see it let me just see it that'd be sick imagine marner's matthew sorry marner matthews and and uh and robertson

that'd be a great line let me see it god god that'd be fun just let me see it it's the first of smile episode but like so we talked about i like i said this before the playoffs began when i actually thought they would do fucking anything uh i i said i thought they would go younger next season just kind of out of necessity and also they're a little old they're a little old but like also if you look at where their prospects are in their development there are some guys who are pretty near ready and like adam brooks i thought proved he deserves like a look at like a regular nhl slot robertson certainly and he had some horrible luck with sandin's a full-time player next season has to be a full-time player he probably takes that riley slot if he's out the

door like you're saying steve but this core that we all seem to agree has something not right with it is now going to usher these kids into the national hockey league and i just don't trust them i don't trust them to to what and and like i need i need to i need to be able to take you seriously i need to have faith in the advice you're giving me and if i'm robertson i'm looking at them going well when i was a high school student i got called up to play in the playoffs because you guys are such a joke so how about like like he doesn't even need to be an asshole about it but there's got to be a voice at the back of his head going these guys might not be the smartest or their advice might not be the soundest you know what i mean joe thornton comes

in there you know you see the reference the reverence everyone has for him spezza this is why spezza is so important to the plan they need someone who's done anything once ever muzzin for god's sake the last time the leafs won a playoff series they beat him in versato in 2004 who jason spezza yeah oh my god he lost to the toronto maple leafs in 2004 the last time the Leafs won a playoff series Jason Spezza was on the ice I I just I just want to expire I just so he knows something about the Leafs winning so it's unbelievable and hey here here's a fun little stat Riley Nash is where the Leafs go to die in the playoffs uh because he beat the Leafs as a member of the Boston Bruins he beat the Leafs as a member of the Columbus Blue Jackets

and thanks to Aaron Portsline for this tweet by playing in two out of seven playoff games which is over 25 percent the leafs seventh rounder that they gave columbus turns into a sixth he played two games with the toronto may please he played two to be fair chances are sucks boo we should all shout it from the rooftop steve steve steve to be fair he played two more games than that sixth round pick is probably going to play in the nhl oh adam i i need you okay when that sixth round pick wins the heart you need to buy their jersey okay it's not it's not necessarily even a sixth round pick it's he's gonna play two more games than the upgraded 30 that you get you know so yeah well no and here's what i want to say

guys is is this you know if like you know i tweeted it out and i got like for me as a lot 3 000 likes i said it was very likely mitch marner's last game and i said why and i also said hey it's going to cost him a pile in endorsements and people like from from chicago and new york and l.a are like oh hockey players can get endorsements you don't know what the fuck you're talking about like actually i do because in all the cities you just mentioned hockey's not the dominant sport uh and trust me the numbers here are much bigger than the numbers they would be here for hockey it'll cost me you can't make money but you're not going to get the same money and it's not going to be the same it'll cost him his dream yes it'll cost his dream

so go with that steve i want to talk about that um like for the guys on the toronto maple leafs who grew up cheering for the toronto maple leafs your dream was to win the stanley cup with the toronto maple leafs you go somewhere else you win you you hoist it above your head you know you you you bring the cup to the cottage you celebrate with your friends you drink out of it and you get your ring and for the rest of your life you'll have that silver medal and it'll be a great thing it'll be not everyone wins over it's a special thing to win silver people talk too bad about the silver medal you know you worked

your entire life and you're the second best in the world at something you know i i'm i'm being a little facetious about it but if your dream was to win a cup with the leafs it seems so obvious that that's spets's goal yeah he could jason spencer could go somewhere else and they'd welcome him with open arms he had 30 points a season in 54 games he'd be welcome with open arms he he had as many points as chris crider i was looking up today more than josh anderson more than josh anderson like you should see the players who had the same amount of points as jason smith uh joel erickson ek like like he was he's in there with some really good names like some solid names far younger names he could go anywhere but his dream is so clearly to win the stanley cup with the

toronto maple leafs and he's got the chance not every leaf fan gets this chance you know what i mean steven samco's grew up cheering for the toronto maple leafs he's been on the lightning his whole career and he won hooray and i raise it above my head but maybe maybe winning the cup is your dream but then winning it with the leafs is your super dream and you have your fucking chance and you're wiping your ass with it and it and it kills me as someone who doesn't have the talent i don't have the talent we grew up with the same dream but i never learned how to skate and and like but you know you know like i'm out there in the driveway i'm by myself and that was me that was me and it could be you and you can make it real it goes back no matter

where you go it won't be here the the fans care more than the players at the end of the day sure like i i 100 believe that you steve care more about winning a stanley cup than every guy who played for the least uh on monday night you know and i wish they had your passion for the team would it lead to results i don't know maybe they would be too passionate and would would paralyze themselves into oblivion but who knows i want to throw something at you guys can i can i tell you about what i hope i read a book uh about hope and basically it told you to stop hoping it's a mark manson book and i was like this this book is depressing as hell he's like don't he's like don't hope uh because uh ai's taken over in a few years anyway i'm like okay

well with the years i got left i'm going to use some hope but um but the uh the thing i hope is that i'm wrong what i hope is that kyle dubas if he watches this which he doesn't goes fuck you and keeps the core together finds a way for these guys to win mitch marner wins the art ross matthews wins the rocket in the heart and we look like jack campbell wins the vesna and they steam roll every goddamn team all of them together to the stanley cup finals where they win next year that's what i hope i hope i'm wrong with mitch marner i don't want to see mitch marner traded this is the thing when you say when you say like hey this is probably his last game this is this sucks do you think i fucking want to say this what i want to be talking about is how mitch marner

matches up with matthews against wheeler and shifley in round two that's what i want this is why i get kind of upset sometimes when people quote this show and and i'm like you okay you just said a tweet we talked for two hours so here we are now i don't want mitch martin to be traded no i want him to hoist the stanley cup above his head as a member of the toronto maple and live his dream right steve and live his dream and your help me realize mine i know i'll never be on that fucking team i'd like him to help me realize my dream of watching the leafs of covering the leafs winning the stanley cup yep but this year's team that looked ready looks so ready um couldn't do it and now we gotta look at options it's not even that they couldn't do it

they couldn't win one more game they could do it and that's what's so fucking crazy they could and they didn't do it fucking could and they could undisputable fact game seven was their worst game without question again again the third straight playoff series so is it a feature or a bug i don't know i don't know 11 to 2 for god's sake any other team okay so we're talking about the leaves here because we watch them the closest but you know we dabble around the league any other team we see them we we see that they've been outscored 11 to 2 in deciding games over their past three deciding games we go oh yeah no they need to blow it up oh yeah no no there's something wrong there the accommodation is not right they

need to do something anything even a trade that will look like the wrong decision at the time will at least be something and then we move forward i saw i saw a great discussion it was it was the bruins um of like the early 2000s and it was like first round exit first round exit missed the playoffs first round exit first round exit second round exit first round exit missed the playoffs first round exit something like that like it like it wasn't good they they could they i think got into the second round once in like 10 years but they still won it and then i i think it was j fresh on twitter was like yeah but they traded blake wheeler phil kessel joe thornton um sergey samsonov like they traded astoundingly good players let byron defoe walk like there was

a huge roster turnover with lord byron lord byron and they want that was the tim thomas when they won it right yeah and sometimes who came out of nowhere at the age of 400 to win a playoff series and sometimes you fall ass backwards into a 12th round pick of the nordiques who's in his 30s right like but but around tim thomas was patrice bergeron and zidane ochara and a young brad martian and a young tyler sagan and and and and like they were still a they were a very very good team on paper they were a top 10 team analytically that year if i remember correctly canucks were way better but the bruins were still up there but they also got out of this world goaltending rask was the start of the year before like it's sports i'm waiting for that

when when when do the least fall ass backwards at any kind of fortune like that when is there hilarious moment where you go i i this makes no sense your hamburger moment can i yes yes yes fuck great point when do they go on a 20 and 2 run with an ahl backup like well they have jack campbell who was a surprise this year although if you look at his underlying numbers you think well he probably was capable of this so that's a you didn't fall ass backwards into it but it's a positive but you're right there was some inkling of this guy could end up being our starter well yeah because he took a shitty la team and still had a crazy save percentage i think thomas was there because like hanu toyvanen wasn't who they expected him to be and if you're going who the

fuck is that exactly so so at the end of the day let me leave you with this the hardest thing to do is to do nothing and if the leafs do not trade mitch marner and i am incorrect i'm happy i'm happy to be incorrect and i'm even happier if they go out and tear it up next year i'm happiest still if they do it in the playoffs that is what i want that is what jesse wants that is what steve wants do not misquote us on this we want this team with these players who we've invested now six seven years into i mean god neil and has been around since 2015 it's 2021 i'm into i mean we're halfway through 2021 by the way this is month number six so like we have i remember writing one of his first articles for sportsnet it was about zach hyman some kid that they'd fallen

ass backwards into actually believe me i'm gonna be inconsolable if they lose zach hyman for nothing well hopefully not um but um i i do think that there are more things that we need to discuss with chris johnson so before you know we i you know i hear it all the time oh you guys are too hard on the Leafs. This is the job guys. When they don't perform, we have to talk about this. And, and the other thing is, if you, let me just say it one more time. If you are abusing human beings online, please get help. Please get help. You need it. You need help. If you've ever done it, you need help. Go to a therapist, talk it out, improve yourself. You only have you to blame for that. And we, we have Chris, uh, we have Chris on Friday and James Myrtle is tentatively booked

for next wednesday as well so we'll get his opinion there's lots and lots of leafs coverage to get to and also with apologies to every other market that listens to our show and genuinely we do appreciate it we will get back to it friday we will start talking about the rest of the playoffs too uh it's just been as you can imagine a total fucking meltdown in toronto i got news for you look at the numbers on this channel on my channel on the sportsnet channel everyone's watching because they want to know what on God's green earth the Leafs are going to do. Well, as our friend CJ often does, he will tell us. We will have questions, and hopefully,

maybe we can get a little bit more closure on a season that still feels like a gaping open wound. Are you guys down with that? Totally. Can I do something and put your Toronto Maple Leafs fandom into perspective for a second here? Please do. uh the boston red sox went 85 years without winning a world series title the chicago white

sox went 87 years without winning a world series title the chicago cubs went 107 years without winning a world series title you're not close like this isn't like everybody's like oh the toronto maple is a fucking curse we're the worst franchise you know you're not close to get there you don't even win that also i will say they went you're only the worst in hockey guys you're only the worst in hockey also you want true uh futility the sacramento kings i'm gonna i'm gonna tell you about the sacramento kings for anybody who doesn't know the sacramento kings entered the nba as a franchise uh they moved over from kansas city they're the kansas city kings they joined the nba 1985 from 1985 until 2000 they didn't win a playoff round oh as a franchise from 1985

to 2000 they didn't win a franchise that's still less time than the Leafs current streak by the way all time since their franchise 1985 to 2021 they have yet to make an NBA finals never made the finals

currently currently as a team since 2006 to 2021 they have not qualified for the playoffs they haven't made the playoffs from 20 from 2006 to 2021 up into the streak is still going they haven't made the playoffs you have it a little better than some other teams around sports so is rudy gay on the

sacramento he was wasn't he still there i don't know i don't know where he is now i i want to throw this at you uh i thought he was on san antonio things things can always get worse let me just throw this at you too um the only difference is yeah things can't get worse jesse The only difference is Sacramento doesn't have the resources of, say, the New York Knicks, who continually fuck it up. The New York Knicks do make me feel better about being a Leafs fan. I mean, New York does have its share of successful teams. But, you know, at least we don't have that guy as our owner.

We had that guy as our owner in the 70s and 80s. And it'll be okay. And we'll figure it out, and we'll get there. Okay? They're in a good position, this Leafs franchise. They have, like you said, Adam, the resources and there's some talent there. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. at participating A&W locations in Ontario.

Also, Adam, are you okay to talk about what we talked about earlier? Yeah, History Corner, right? Yes, if you don't mind doing the History Corner. Oh, God. Okay. So I said, oh, God, because of what happened in Canada this week. And Steve, this is going to be a bit of a dark subject,

but I think it's important that we discuss it. Yes. It was Jesse's idea, but I think it was a good discussion. Okay. No, it was. It was a four-credit word to do. Yeah.

Yeah. So for quick history corner, we're going to talk about what happened in Canada with something called the residential school system. And I know this is a tough one, but I think you've got to know what happened here. So the the Coles notes on this, and I encourage you to do a little more research. Can we just say as well, there's 215 unmarked graves of children that were found last week in Kamloops, B.C. outside of a school and i've actually had a few dms about this and i was like man do we talk about that in the stp but i think when it comes to causes that we believe in we should yeah and this is something you've mentioned before like we've brought you've brought this up specifically in your history corner so yeah it's important we address it so uh so basically they they're flying

over this school with infrared scanning and they're able to pick up bones they're able to see the outlines of bones and you're talking about what was it how is it 215 215 separate kids that were unaccounted for just we we don't even know who they are we don't know what their names were we don't know what tribe they were from we don't know anything we're finding out but it's it's still going to be a tough one so what happened was when uh there was a um an act that was called the indian act and there were a couple other acts as well in the 1880s that instituted a policy of um on both sides both the british colonial government slash canadian government at the time which was sort of in transition and uh the tribes especially out west which is where this

kind of all started you got to remember that canada at the time was like british columbia ontario quebec and and like the eastern provinces there was no manitoba there was no saskatchewan there was no alberta it was just the great plains the hudson's plains whatever they're called Anyway, long story short, they turn this land into Canada, they send surveyors out, and they create these reserves. And the local chiefs at the time, understandably, were concerned about the next generation's ability to survive in a stranger's world. meaning that, you know, if you're, you're a chief and you're, you've been out on the plains the whole time, and literally you were hunting Buffalo and you might've been, uh, you might've been Métis, you might've been one of the plains Indians. Uh, and I would, I would say I wouldn't use that term anymore, but that's what they were called at the time.

Um, the, um, the issue becomes, okay, well, my type of life is going away. The way I survive our tribal traditions is going because we've signed this treaty we're outmatched outmanned our land is no longer our own we're being moved to this spot and we will not be able to do the things that we used to do before and the herds of buffalo that used to be out here that we used to live off of when we migrated along with them are gone because these and believe it or not guys when those first railway tracks made their way across the country and this happened the united States and Canada, they would actually have guys on the train, like train loads of people where if they ran across a Buffalo herd, these guys would get out and start shooting until they ran

out of bullets and then move on. And the whole thing was for sport. So you might take one Buffalo head with you to Mount on your wall, but you might've killed a thousand, 2000 in a herd. And you know how big Buffalo are. So there that's a lot. And there are stories of these native peoples in Canada and the United States coming upon these total death zones, just an entire herd wiped out and then rotting in the sun. And as you know, Canada's natives peoples would have used all of that. They used the muscle fibers, they ate, they used the bones, they used everything because they needed to. The plain settlers just didn't look at things that way and were quite wasteful. And that goes back to, there's a whole bunch of, excuse me, things like that that happened

in Africa. Hunting at the time was outrageous, outrageous across the world. Anyway, long story short, these chiefs rightly thought, well, shit, what the hell am I going to do? Put yourself in their position. Your kid is growing up and you can't teach them anything about what world is coming, about how their life is going to be. There's a provision set up wherein the Canadian government is supposed to educate these kids and help them, give them the skills to, I guess, be a part of the society that is coming, incoming. And so the whole idea is, okay, so you guys are making us give up our land. You need to educate our children so that they can survive in your world. We don't have a choice here. So at least give us our kids that. So what the Canadian

government does is they send up, set up three schools and there, there had been some in Quebec in the new France era, but it was, you know, well before this and not really connected in the same way. Um, so the Canadian government does this and they start to do this across the country. And what happens is they, uh, because of the politics of the time and the optics of the time use the resources of churches and religious organizations, because the Canadian government's basically broke they don't have the money to do this and they want to strip this new generation of native kids of their culture they want them to be euro canadian is what the is what canadian cycle pleading uses and so they put them in these schools they take them away from their tribes away

from their families they are not allowed to go home because the government can't afford it and they turn them over to the church and, uh, forgive my offense, any offense given to anybody who is religious, but we know the history of the Catholic church in recent times, imagine remote areas, a bunch of children and a couple of guys. There was, uh, widespread reports of, uh, like in serious sexual assaults uh beatings um and uh and also frankly because they had no money they were actually under strict orders to save as much as possible these kids didn't eat much more than like oatmeal like maybe a little bit of beef at the end of the day um a lot of manual labor as well a lot of me well and then and so i'll get to that but what that does when you have

a shitty diet, what happens? You get sick, pandemic sweep through, flus sweep through, and it really affected the female contingent. I mean, there was a report that like somebody said, you'd lose two or three girls a month at the school. You'd lose two or three girls a month at one particular school because of this. So then on top of that, Steve makes a really good point here. You go to class in the morning, what do they have you doing in the afternoon? Well, for the girls, they're sewing blankets and sewing uniforms. So they're literally building their own uniforms for the next class group. And for the guys, it's, oh, we're going to teach you how to be carpenters. We're going to teach you how to be this, teach you how to do that. Basically,

they're digging stuff, they're cutting things. And even with that, they were not able to teach them sufficient skills to actually work in the real world. So if you were native born, you went to one of these residential schools. Let's say you graduate and you didn't run away. You end up at, say you end up in Fort Calvert, you end up in Vancouver early days, you end up in Toronto early days when it's York, you end up in Montreal, one of the, you know, the biggest cities in North America at that time. You don't have the skills. You do not have the skills to even do basic manual labor there. They, you know, they thought that they were being trained. And here's the other thing. They bring these kids to these schools. These kids would not speak English or French,

which were the only languages taught, and they would start teaching them in English. How much are you going to learn? Right? So then what happens is you have generations of kids who have not seen their families for literal years, not taught the proper quote unquote Euro-Canadian way of things, told that their culture's terrible, told that they're going to hell, told that they are, what's the word for people that are not Christianized? Pagan. Call them little pagans, little pagan heathens is what they used to call them. And they are not directly linked to the new culture coming into their land. They're also, when they go back to their tribes, completely alienated because they don't maybe speak the language anymore and they

don't know any of the traditions. And it's been 10 years. Imagine you're eight years old, you're taken away from your family, you're not back till you're an adult. How much are you going to know about them? How much are you going to know about your tribal traditions? So what it did was you have over the course of say 80 years, 150,000 people who are between two worlds, completely between two worlds. There's a wall up and they, this is how they describe it. There's a wall up with the tribe because I don't fit in there. And there's a wall up with, you know, the Europeanized North America because I don't fit in there either. So what am I supposed to do? And here's the most like starkly insane fact about this. And then I'll shut up. 150,000 people they think showed up

150 000 people they think showed up for these schools and were taken away from their families 6 000 at least died i want you to imagine that three percent of all kids that went to school in toronto died three and a hundred so if you go to high school and you've got you got 10 000 or you got sorry a thousand people there 30 of them are gonna die an entire class it's crazy those numbers and and those numbers are probably way lower than what actually happened and and and it falls to the canadian government it falls to the catholic church the anglican church the united church presbyterian church all of them were involved cath i think the catholic church had three-fifths of all schools and the anglicans were two

two-fifths and whatever everybody's culpable here everybody's culpable and it's an ugly ugly ugly stain on our history it is not we we it's so funny you know under dieffenbaker in the 50s canada became this peace-loving nation the residential school system happened the last school closed in 1996 that's what i was just about to say that the gordon residential school the federal government began to shut down the schools across canada in the 1970s though the last residential school the gordon residential school and i think it's punicky uh saskatchewan closed in 1996 each member of the show was alive wow so many of the people listening to this were alive it's a it's a time you remember and you probably had no idea i uh ahead of the game

seven stream uh talked to a friend of mine who's indigenous and i said like listen what's a what's indigenous charity that you value and and trust and he gave me the name actually jesse i'll send you the link maybe we can add it to the video for this um and i was just like honestly man i had no idea and this guy was you know is uh my friend and we were you know really close throughout university and like this never came up and and he's like dude i didn't even really know until maybe 10 12 years ago and the name of the charity on hand yes so it is i have it open um it's called on canadahelps.org uh indian residential school survivors society um it's a registered registered business on canadahelps.org um but uh yeah lots of lots of people saying yes this is a

i've heard enough people talk about it that i trust it right and i just want to uh thank cash who reached out on instagram he said his grandmother uh is a survivor of a residential school she's in her 60s now and uh she was very traumatized by it and he he's in grade 11 cash and he said he never uh like learned about in school he had to find out through his grandmother so that prompted me to ask you for this conversation adam so thank you cash for reaching out about that it's it's a failure sorry sorry go ahead go ahead well it's it's such an enormous failure of our education system like i remember i remember learning a lot about like you know rupert's land and like super old canada when it was just getting settled and you heard

about the different tribes and treaties they don't talk about how none of them are none of them were honored and i don't like residential school is a term i learned probably within the last couple years yeah now let me let me say stick one other thing in your craw first off is it was it chase that you that reached out to you uh cash cash sorry that's his grandmother uh cash i hope that first off cash's parent cash's mom or grandmother is the same age as my mom right like that's not that ain't long right and that's not that long ago and let me also say this um uh when the canadian government finally did apologize issue its first apology for this it was 2005 and they put together a fund a reserve fund for um survivors of the school so you could apply and

make some money it was only 1.9 billion dollars sounds like a lot but it's not considering what the fuck happened. We're talking generational abuse. On top of that, and this will stick in your craw, because it was a Stephen Harper government, and I say that because I know how Stephen Harper operates, this is exactly what he would do. They made no provision in there for Newfoundland and Labrador because they argued when the residential school system was active in Newfoundland and Labrador, it was still a British colony, which it was until 1949 when it joined Confederation. So the conservative government in 2005 under Stephen Harper refused to take responsibility for it and refused to help. And it wasn't until I think it was 2016

where the Trudeau government stepped in and said, no, no, no, no, we're all doing this. And you can say what you want about Trudeau, but that is some cold, calculating, nasty bullshit right there. It is. However, the Canadian government is still fighting against lawsuits um and other legal action and a lot of this was going on with trudeau's dad in charge i don't know if oh yeah americans know that his dad used to be prime minister yeah i mean his dad did a lot of things to move the country forward but this seemed like an easy one and it's crazy one of the prime ministers that was prime minister was at the time it was this is the title of the time indian affairs minister knew exactly what was going on became prime minister did nothing was he really

i don't think it was trudeau's i don't think it was trudeau i got to figure out who uh who it was but i know that um i again of course i you know do all the research and forget that name but uh canada we like to get on our high horse about a lot of things but the way indigenous peoples have been treated here is monstrous yeah and uh you're talking about you know somebody that you know there are cultures that almost entirely wiped out and you know i always believe that the more cultures you have in a society the better you do because it allows you to step outside of your box and realize that life isn't one way it's multiple different ways i wish i'd known more about this when i was younger uh but i have to say um uh it's nice at least the people are talking

about it en masse now now the question is what do we do all right can canada does a great job hiding its atrocities from its own people yes like especially well from their children growing up and schooling like i had no idea about these things until my late 20s it's ridiculous and it happened we were alive we were i remember 1996 and there were kids while i was in school going to school at a residential school wow there are kids like they they look my age yes they look like young men and women they're they're not old they're under 40 who went to these schools like all the all the flags at half mass

across the country like that's awesome like you should definitely do that but also we need to take some action yeah this is why this is why I was sort of talking to my wife and she was like is there we do something other than like an orange ribbon

like it's all well and good yeah but it doesn't really help anyone like thoughts and prayers for this mass shooting but ban guns like it's it's it's along those same lines so that's a good place to start and we're open to i'm open to suggestions because again this is something i'm just i'm just really learning about and if there are other charities um you know maybe on like a more local level yeah you know what i mean

maybe cam loop specific i don't know anyway it's it's insane that's it's a it's an abrupt turn but we've talked about so much on this show and it's just it's that there are the atrocities you know right so many people don't even know about this one yeah yeah i know more about uh things that happened in in in eastern europe in 1942 not that you shouldn't know that but if you should know that you should should you should know what happened at home too one and like seeing people like well a lot of those kids died of tuberculosis like kids are just supposed to die of tuberculosis on what and how did they get tuberculosis like like like you can get it was highly infectious yes but they know that a diet helps right who's eating food this goes back to our other thing

about if you're on an athlete's instagram telling them to use soccer whatever if you're on twitter trying to defend the death of children like you got something wrong with you yeah no i want like I don't trust you to operate a motor vehicle. I don't want to drive next to you. No, go speak to someone. Please. Anyway, love you guys.

Please do some research on that. Can I say one thing? Since we started this podcast, Pride Month began. Happy Pride Month to everybody out there celebrating, which should be everybody. Thank you. Love you. We'll see you Friday with Chris Johnston. Down to be a banger.

the steve dangle podcast follow the guys on twitter at steve underscore dangle at adam w y l d e and at jesse blake connection complete