The Steve Dangle Podcast - O Larkin! My Larkin! | September 11, 2026

Episode Date: September 11, 2026

On this episode of The Steve Dangle Podcast, 00:00 Red Wings strip Larkin of captaincy 28:30 Oilers vs Flames national games 38:00 Brady speaks on Ottawa 58:00 Tougie joins to talk NHL 27 1:13:30 Will Hughes stay? 1:25:00 McDavid wants to be coached 1:34:00 Michkov talks about losing weight 1:43:30 Barry Melrose passes away 1:45:30 NHL expansion 1:56:40 Gavin McKenna skipping rookie tourney 2:03:00 Klingberg retires Visit this episode's sponsors: Get an exclusive 15% discount on Saily data plans! Use code DANGLE at checkout. Download Saily app or go to https://saily.com/dangle Join us on Tuesday September 22, 2026 for a live stream on our YouTube Channel in partnership with the The Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Road Hockey Event. All the proceeds raised during the live go to one winning team, helping them hit their fundraising goal or climb the draft board for a celebrity player on Game Day. There are two ways to get off the bench: register a team at http://pmcfroadhockey.ca/, or just tune in on the 22nd! Come see us at The Course and The Clubhouse!: http://sdpn.ca/events Watch all episodes of The Steve Dangle Podcast here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLk7FZfwCEidkgWpSiHVkYT7HrIzLPXlY Watch clips of The Steve Dangle podcast here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLk7FZfwCEieOJuIrqWyZPWSIJtVMCbLz Buy SDP merch https://sdpnshop.ca/ Visit https://sdpn.ca/schedule to see when our next live stream airs! Check out https://sdpn.ca/events to see The Steve Dangle Podcast live! Watch hockey with us! Live on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLk7FZfwCEifCTX0vkKEaGg9otrW4Zl2k Subscribe to the sdpn YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@sdpn?sub_confirmation=1Join Subscribe to SDP VIP!: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0a0z05HiddEn7k6OGnDprg/join Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/thestevedanglepodcast Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sdpvip/subscribe - Follow us on Twitter: @Steve_Dangle, @AdamWylde, & @JesseBlake Follow us on Instagram: @SteveDangle, @AdamWylde, & @Jesse.Blake Join us on Discord: https://discord.com/invite/MtTmw9rrz7 For general inquiries email: [e-mail] Reach out to https://www.sdpn.ca/sales to connect with our sales team and discuss the opportunity to integrate your brand within our content! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Steve. The Steve Dangle podcast with your host, Steve Dangle, Adam Wilde, and Jesse Blake. Let's go! Hors to Club Out St. Catherine, Saturday, September 26th. We are hanging out. We got five HD golf simulators that feature 40 real golf courses, and we're doing our longest drive. Oh, yeah, I guess we're doing the live show, too. Yeah. There is a live show element to it.

Adam, I'm going to have a longer driving you. Well, I know, because you have to come all the way from the east, you see. all the way from the east. On the golf simulator. Oh, on the golf simulator. Bag of potatoes. We're actually getting Steve past Youngstreet. Yes.

Which is good. Dipped up because I'm coming from Ajax. Adam! Dad! Guys, he is, he's driving past Young Street and doesn't have a book to promote. Like, how about that? I usually be to you there. That is true.

That is true. Oh, sorry, guys. Toronto's Torontoing. You know, And I didn't realize that the west end of Toronto would be undrivable. It's a hellscape, but I love it. That's very funny. That's very funny.

Tickets at last check were about 75% sold out, but that information is 48 hours old. So I don't actually know where we're at on ticket sales. And I would imagine we're closing in on sellout. It has sold out the last few years. It's sold out. Is this the good? Skill issue. Is this the fourth annual?

Is this fourth? I don't know if it's third or four. Yeah, I think it's fourth. I believe it's four. Yeah. Yeah. Some of the best food in St. Catharines. Absolutely.

Yes. The golf simulator place has some of the best food you'll ever have, but like that's serious. It's always so delicious. That was the like, that was out of their mouth before they like said their names the first time we met them. Hey, I'm Steve. And just we have frog legs. Yeah. And they're good.

And they're good. Is it because, so if this is the fourth year, do we call it the fourth year? Oh, my God. Do we? Do we? Yes. No, we don't. I feel like we should.

I feel like we should. What? What's the problem? That was a real bogey, Adam. Oh, all right. Now, Detroit Red Wings. And you're going to laugh at me here. You think I'm going to go in on the Red Wings.

I think they're showing signs of life because they've actually made not just a decision, which is rare for them. It seems like they have not been able to make decisions for at least two months. But a good decision. I think this is good. And I'm going to tell you why. So here's the deal. We got the announcement from the Detroit Red Wings this morning.

Dylan Larkin, this is the statement from, I'll start with the Red Wings statement. Statements from the Detroit Red Wings. On Dylan Larkin and reporting to camp, we look forward to seeing Dylan and the rest of his teammates at Little Cesar's Arena for the start of training camp as we prepare for the upcoming season. On Dylan Larkin's trade request, Dylan is under contract as a member of the Detroit Red Wings. Any conversations regarding the future of the club or his future with the club. will take place privately when a new hockey operations leader is named. As such, we will not comment any further on the matter. On the captaincy of the Red Wings, the Red Wings will begin the 26-27 season without a captain.

Any further discussions or decisions regarding this topic will be made once the new Hockey Ops leadership is in place. Now, Dylan Larkin said this. Over the past couple of weeks, Red Wings leadership and I have had several in-depth discussions. I've appreciated those conversations and I will be at training camp with my teammates with the new leadership in place, sorry, when the new leadership is in place, we'll talk further about the direction of the team. We will keep those conversations private. I will keep my focus ahead and on the guys in that room.

So this says a couple things to me. First off, and we'll get into this, Sean Horcoff, even though he was running the day-to-day operations, but it's not allowed to make any signings or trades. Dylan, and that's two months of this, Dylan Larkin recognizes that because Because his trade unprotection, the teams that he wants to go to is so intensely focused in one direction on like three or four teams, they're not going to be able to trade them anyway. And I kind of, I kind of wonder, like, first of all, this is the right thing to do, make the statement, get out in front of it. We've been talking about it the first two shows of this season already. Everybody's talking about it.

Good, done. Now we have finality. Yeah. Let me be as complimentary as I plan on being. Great statement. Great statement. Great statement. But can I ask you?

Does this not open the door slightly? I know everybody says it's bad. Does it not open the door slightly to him maybe staying, especially if they start well? Which they always do. Slightly. Yeah, I guess. I guess.

Like what if the new GM comes in and he's a rock? Okay, who wants him to stay? The fans? I don't think the fans right now want him to stay. Okay. Does he? I would assume not. Okay.

How is this a victory then? What if you have... No, no, I'm not saying it's a victory yet. Okay. I said the victory is they made the statement. That's a victory. Sure. They haven't done shit all summer.

Sure. But I'm talking about, like, Jesse, what if the new GM comes in and he's like, he like revitalizes the team, a la Yarmou Kekaline in Buffalo, okay? What if he's a guy that, and the team gets off to a hard start, and Dylan's like, well, this is why I wanted to leave

because we were not doing this. Is there a chance that maybe he just stays and maybe it just makes more sense the two sides get along. I think the two things that Dylan Larkin hates in Detroit are one Steve Iserman and two losing. So if one Steve Iserman is gone because he sucked and clearly how this whole thing is played out over the summer is just more evidence in how he sucked and now he's gone. And then the team is also good. I think there's a large portion of the fan base that would be like, yeah, it makes sense if Larkin stays. And I think Larkin would look at it and be like, those are the two things

I didn't like about this. I'll stick around because now we're good and Iserman isn't here. Here's what he could do though and has not done. And lots of players have done this before. There's no shame in it. Lots of players have done this before.

They take their trade request and they go, never mind. Yeah. Never mind. I don't want it anymore. I had to change of heart. He hasn't done that. Right?

Like I kind of look at it like you. Like yeah, he obviously, him and Iserman did not get along. That seems very obvious. Eisenman's no longer in charge. He's a tradition like a turkey. He's, I don't even know what his role is.

And trade request is still there. It is. And the statement has left it open that it isn't. Because he committed to keeping the conversations private. Yes. With the new GM. So he can say, I'm not just going to talk about this matter.

And behind the scenes have rescinded his trade request and couch it that. way so that if you're just around, it's been like, yeah, I didn't publicly say I'm not, I took away my trade requests, but I did privately. There is wisdom in Dylan say fewer words. Like words got you into trouble. Yeah. More words might not get you out of trouble. It might plunge you deeper into trouble. So I think what, what, what I get to, we've been talking about Dylan Larkin all summer. And it's valid.

And we've been talking about Isamon. To me, the greater concern as each day passes is it's September 11th and they don't have a general manager. Yeah. And they have a guy who's like going to GM meetings and stuff. And he's openly not allowed to do anything. And like, Dylan Larkin is not the only member of the Detroit Red Wings. They have a really good defenseman and Simon Edvinson.

And it sounds like they've completely. botched that whole thing. And there's no resolution in sight because no one has permission to get it done even if there was done to be getting. If I can... Yeah, that's a player on your roster who needs a contract

and needs it before the beginning of the season. And the September 16th date of the new CBA is even more important because if you wanted to finagle the contract with any weird bonus structures or payouts, they get rid of a lot of that stuff in the new CBA. So you have like, what is that four or five days to get it done and nobody's around to get it done.

This is a poorly run organization. Now, hold off. Before you guys take a step further, the player that you two are referring to is Simon Edvinson. Yes. And the report you were referring to is 32 thoughts with Elliot Friedman where he said that there was actually a short-term deal on the table for Edvinson. Okay. But then when Eisenman was fired, much like with Patrick Kane, nobody continued with it.

Yeah. And continue, please. I just want to contact that for people. There's just no chance his number went down over the summer. Oh, I mean, Fridge even says it, like him and Nkishin and a few other guys, like their numbers are up now, even further. Then they would have been had Detroit to sign the deal. If I'm Edvinson, I'm looking at Bougham and I'm like,

I don't know what people think my ceiling is compared to him. All I know is I've done a lot more than him. So pay me. Like, I know Fraser Minton doesn't play the same position, but I should be making at least that. Evanston is the highest paid Red Wing. If it's a long-term deal, Bouillon is nine.

I think that's highest paid on. Oh, if he gets his highest booium, yeah, he would be the high, yeah, which is crazy. It's weird how, like, they actually have some good business done. Absolutely. On that, Cider's deal is crazy. Raymond's deal is crazy.

We weren't saying that at the time, but it changed, right? The cap reality changed. they should be way better than they are. And they're not. Well, where they pissed away their money was on death players. Yes. They never, after your stars, like stars are, those should be the easiest to identify.

Right. The reason we have analytics is not to identify stars. Like, that's always the funniest part. It's like, oh, well, it says that McDavid is 0.2% better than Kutrovt this month. Like, no one cares. You watch Connor McDavid and you're like, I don't know. Yeah, like you have analytics so you can say this guy, I plug him in as a third line right wing

and that's found value for $850 grand. Sure. And so what Detroit's issue has always been, well, we're going to overspend on these guys in free agency, you know, put the phone down, Stevie. Now,

I want to ask you guys about this because in Detroit Red Wings Twitter, which has been fascinating lately, because they went from, know it's Stevie, know what's Stevie, you guys don't know what you're talking about. Stevie will get it right to.

Holy shit, Stevie's terrible. And then they fire him and now people are like, well, we kind of want Stevie back because... When did he get actually two months?

months ago? July 15th. Almost two months ago. Because at least there would have been something that happened. Yes. Once he got fired, nothing happened. And the spotlight now is squarely on Chris Illich, who is the son of Mike Illich, owner of the Little Caesars, founder of Little Caesars, and obviously owner of the Detroit Tigers and the Detroit Red Wings. The Red Wings are like, you're in the back seat of a car, right?

And you showed up to the front seat. You're a shitty driver. And Eisenman goes, oh, I'm here, let me just, and then jumped out of the car. You know what? Like, he wasn't, yeah, you're right. He was not doing a very good job driving. Now, no one's driving the car. Sean Horcoff can, he can touch the steering wheel, but he can't turn it left or right.

And he can't press the brakes or gas? Yeah. Hey, can you just get off at, oh, no, okay, I guess we'll just blow past that. Like, you're, you're, what you were talking about with the Red Wings and their problems and, like, signing depth players to too much money and stuff. Those are bad hockey decisions, which any team will make, right? They're missing the basics of running a business here. Like, who's in charge?

Who makes choices? Hey, our business revolves around players playing, and one of them does not have a contract to play. Who's going to solve that problem? Sean? Oh, Sean can't No, we fired the Detroit Tigers guy.

Oh, Detroit Tigers guy doesn't want to do it. So let's talk about that a little bit because it's clear that, at least from my perspective, that they had an internal hire in mind. And then we found out last week that that guy's no longer wanting it. He wants to focus on the Tigers. Two months in, guys, it's September 11th.

They fired Stevie Y on July 15th. I think that was their guy. They blew it. they they're gonna it sure looks like everyone involved is settling like Dylan Larkin I want to be traded the Red Wings wisely were like well no because you gave us a list of you could write your list on a sticky note and he might have and we want this GM

and you don't get it and I'm sorry it is mid-September now it looks like you just blew it. Like, again, the statement is good. Stripping them of the captaincy, okay, fine. Getting out ahead of it ahead of like media day and stuff. So, you know, you can keep talking about it to like the absolute bare minimum because you said, listen, this is all I want to say about it. That's great.

That's all great messaging and everything. Cool. First game of the season is like three weeks away, less than three weeks away. Is Simon Edvinson in the lineup or what? All right. Who knows? Is Dylan Larkin in the lineup or what? We know he's at camp. I think Larkin's going to be on the lineup.

I think he's going to be in the lineup. I think opening day Larkin's on the ice. I think I think that's a foregone conclusion at this point. I am... I am a prospective customer for the Detroit Red Wings. They are my childhood team and I like them very much. And I would like to go to a game who is on the Detroit Red Wings. Let me ask them. They don't know.

I'm just, I don't understand how this process can be taking so long when it's a very normal thing to hire a GM within a month of research because so often the timeline is end of season around beginning of April, GM gets fired by early June. There's a GM in place because you got to get that GM place in place for the draft, right? They need at least a, the new GM needs a bit of runway so that they can get the draft process done. That's about a month and a half, you know, two months at the max. And then this special circumstance here is that it was August and there's no other hockey business for you to do.

So you just have this on your plate. It's you're in charge of finding somebody. What do you do all day? Run the Red Wings, Chris Illich. You have from July 15th until let's give you early September. You have just that is what you're doing. there's nothing else to do for you. What have you been doing this whole time?

That would be my first question to him. How did you spend your August and how wasn't it finding more than one candidate? Because it sounds like they had one candidate and why was there not two? That's not a plan. Two is more than one. And that would have solved this problem. You touched on something, Jesse. So I want to ask you a question.

You said, you know, before the draft, you had a couple months, right? will the Red Wings have a GM in place before the 2027 draft? Yeah. Okay. So we're good on that. Listen, I'm down on them, but like, that's like what, 10 months?

I know. I was also being facetious. But can I also, can I ask this? Sure. What's, okay, we already know we're past failure date on, like firing somebody July 15th is a bad idea. Yes. Because you need to,

you should have had this, but the Larkin situation apparently finally unseated Eiser. The more time the passes, the more it looks emotional. Yeah. Yeah. I think that was what pushed it over. So at what point do we now, because now we're in, this is a failure.

At what point does not having a GM become a disaster? Like how much longer can this go on before people are like, like, I mean, it already feels like it's there. But I don't think that it is. Like we got to go through training camp. You're going to go through training camp without a general manager with a guy who can't make trades. That means that he can't cut people, right? that means that nobody can get waived or claim. I got a bar for if this is actually a complete disaster.

And that's Simon Edvinson. Yeah. If he misses a game, then that's on you not having your management structure in place to negotiate a contract. It should be said he's at camp. If he's at camp, that's good. I think that's insane, by the way. I still don't think that's bad. Yeah, they're going to try and do the thing where he doesn't have a contract, but he's at camp.

I don't think that's terrible for your insurance. You shouldn't do that. You should sit out and not participate. He could always change that. So if he misses a game. then it's a bad decision. But also, if he gets off to an Allmark-like start from him in terms of missing camp and then he's also struggling out there because he didn't have a camp.

Swamen. Sorry, Swamen. Yeah, not Allmer. Hey, Almar, too, but he was at camp. The other Boston. No, but like that was another example of, all right, we're going to trade Allmark without having Swamen done. Right.

Idiots. And we were like, hey, this might be a problem. Nah, we got tons of time. And then tons of time passed. and you yard sale to season. If they get a GM tomorrow, they sign Edmondson a couple of days after that, and then he has a great season,

then this was all like they actually did a good job. But if they get a GM in a couple weeks and then they sign Edmondson and he's like a little, he only gets a little camp and he's off to a slow start, then you fumbled this whole thing. That's my bar.

So let me ask you this. Okay. I'm going to add to this now that that's your bar. I like that we have a bar. I like that we have a bar. Okay. Does it change your answer? to know that, and this was reported again on 32 thoughts,

the Red Wings had candidates that they reached out to and were given permission to talk to all summer long and never followed up with any of them. Yeah, that just doesn't meet... That's how we know the Tigers guy was the guy. That does not meet the basic standards of professionalism. Like, this is what I'm talking about. It's not about smart hockey minds

or making bad on ice decisions. Interview people to work for your company and then hire one of them guys. They didn't do that. They can't even respond to them. They had one internal guy. They asked. They did ask.

They just. Yeah. So not to make everything about the Leafs, but unfortunately, like there's a direct line here. Well, we did the same thing that they did. Only we hired somebody. Yeah. And hired an outside search firm like they did.

Helen St. James reported, I think it was August 5th, that they were hiring an outside search firm to help them find a general manager. What happened to that? So much stuff got reported in August by a bunch of different reporters that no one read because. Because it's August, we all made a break. Yeah. Like, okay, you got two former Red Wings who are Hall of Famers. Steve Eisenman and Brennan and Brandon Shanahan. Yep. We all agreed, all of us. Listen, he's done some good. He's done some bad. It's time to move on. Brendan Shanahan and Steve Isamon. Yep. He's done some. Mostly bad.

A little bit of good. A little bit of good. You know, I praised the Raymond signing, the cider signing. Yep. And it was time to move on. Okay, so who you were placing Shaney with? Well, no one. Oh, okay.

And last year was, like, beyond the fact that they weren't good on the ice, abject chaos. Complete chaos. You did not know who was in charge of what. And, Like, what was the hallmark of Trillivings season last year? They didn't do anything. He did not do anything.

The Leafs did not make transactions, which is generally not great for a bad team, right? I'm not like, this is, did the Marna thing happen before or after Shaney got let go? Marta thing happened after. After. Okay. So after that very big change happens,

now you got no one at the wheel? For a long time. You know, say what you will about John Chaka. He's a living, breathing human being for God's sake. And he's been active. Yeah. Whether the moves, whether they work out or you agree with them or whatever, he was the most active GM this summer.

Yeah, and we shouted Keith Pelley's name enough times that he eventually decided, maybe I should shut up. And then there's Sundeen in his weird franken role and he's equal to Chaka, above Chaka? We don't know. I'm not saying the Leifes have an ideal situation now. I'm just saying the worst version of the Leafs, you're, you have, you have the benefit of hindsight and you're copying them.

Why? Yeah. As a Leaf fan my entire life, don't replicate this team. What? Yep. What are you doing? So, Eisenman, we all agree. Like, we shouted for years.

We're like, oh, my God, when are you going to be done with this experiment? If it was any other executive with any other name, he would have been gone a long time ago. finally get rid of them. And at the time, we were like, okay, there's an opportunity to turn the page and move on here. And they haven't done anything. Yeah. That's, it's not how you run a business. Forget a professional sports team. Do you think Chris Illich will speak to the media when the GM is, is usually the person who hires the GM in this case, it will be Chris. Eilch. Do you think he'll be out there speaking to them? Yeah, I think reporters are going to ask him questions and then he's going to cut them off and get combative weirdly.

Sorry, that's me making it about the Leafs again. He ought to. Because I think Red Wings fans should know why this went this way. He doesn't have to because no owner has to do anything at the end of the day. But who else should Red Wings fans be asking questions to? Who the... Well, there's also the question that I would have if I was... Detroit press member.

The rumors are now that Chris Illich is very involved in who they trade for and sign. And was mixing signings. Well, so how much I would want to know, the first question I would have for him or for the new GM, you can ask them both, is how much leeway do you really have? Is he actually going to trust your decisions?

Or, and I wonder, because we still don't know why the Tigers guy pulled out, but I wonder if part of it was, the ownership group said, well, we're going to, we're not going to trust you with this stuff. You're new to this and we're going to have to approve some things. And, you know, when you step into a general manager position like that and Brian Burke talks about it in his book, he's like, if, if I, the first thing I ask people, imagine Berkey's voice. The first thing he asked people is, am I going to have decision making power?

And if I'm not, thanks so much, but I'm not going to take the job. Yeah. Because he was, he was able to say, no, I don't need this. So let's take it a step further. So Sean Horkoff appears to be interim general manager in every aspect but name. Yep. Right. Interim GMs and even assistant GMs have made trades before.

Yeah. And signings before. Why can't you, why can't anyone sign a member of the Detroit Red Wings to play for the Detroit Red Wings? That's crazy. That's crazy. That's crazy. Simon Evanson is a Red Wing. Yeah, he is.

What do you mean? What do you mean? No one, I'd be losing my mind if I was a Red Wings fan. This is what we went through. Do something. But at least we had a GM to rant against at that point. Yeah.

They don't have that. They don't even have that. So now it switches to ownership. And I don't know if Chris Illich cares, but I think he ought to. Well, I was, you know, the next word's coming out of, my mouth were going to be you don't even have anyone you can blame that's not true

Chris Elish do something this could be a galvanizing moment for that team I am curious about the Detroit Red Wings that most people don't have them ranked very highly Hockey's such a weird sport I could totally see them coming out of the gate I'm like they always do by the way they really are like the leaps of a bunch of years ago yeah in so many ways like I hate there's so many comparables it's weird yeah I don't know I don't know if they're a good enough team to make the playoffs I have no idea but I do think that they'll come out with a lot of FU. In the Atlantic?

I don't think that's still a good bar for if they're running their organization well. Certainly not. That's fair. The report, I think a couple of days ago was that Steve Eiserman was told on July 2nd that he was let go. So July 2nd to September 11th, you should have had a new GM in place. Even if your team's successful, you still are running your business poorly. No amount of winning or losing in the next few weeks is going to excuse the fact that

that it's mid-September and you don't have a decision-maker. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. That's a crazy way to run your hockey team. I don't care how good your team is. That you run your business poorly. And like, I don't know how many fans are going to like this, but like, it's the Red Wings.

This is one of the storied franchises in the sport. Yes. And it's embarrassing for the game where this team is. They should be one of the premier franchises in every single year in the contention for a championship. And for the last decade, they've just. been a tire fire. Leifes are, Leifes are an original 16, but people don't exactly talk about them with prestige, right? The Red Wings?

What happened, man? They lost their fastball big time. Dude, have someone make decisions. Have someone make decisions for the next few weeks for the love of God and get a candidate. Have you ever left your house? No. Scary out there.

Oh, especially if you want to bring the internet with you. Now, if you get outside of your borders, that's even scarier because of the roaming fees. But with Saly, not so much. You see, this summer. What? I used Saly this summer. I used it too.

Yes. But I used it for the first time. Oh, yeah, because you went last year and you were like, I'm going to give the big telecoms $40 for a day of use. It's pretty dumb. So I used it on my trip to Newport this year, and I want to say it worked real good. Yeah, it was great. It was actually great. It was great. Excellent. Way to be a year behind Jesse.

Jesse, where did you use it? Where did you go? I was in Mexico and I'm just, I pulled up the Saly app right now to see how much, because I know I didn't use all of my data, but the deal was so great on like the, the gigabits I got, but I had 0.68 gigabits left over. Wow. I trip to Mexico where I use Saly in our promo code. That's incredible.

And the promo code is Dangle. And the website is Saly.com slash Dangle. That's where you want to go. or just download the Saly app because ESIMs, the thing with these new phones you see is nobody has the SIM card anymore. So in ESIM you download the app and then it just kind of locks you in and you're good to go. Now, Steve, you went to Vancouver this summer. I'm not sure if you use Saly, but you can, because outside of your own zone,

you also get charged for long distance. You wouldn't really need it. Go ahead. I would still use it. I made an effort to be off my phone. Oh, he's better than us is what he's trying to say. Saly.com slash dang will get an exclusive 15% discount. on Saly data plans.

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But I think this is really interesting. Obviously, we found out earlier this week on Wednesday that, you know, about how sports that was going to do their thing with Saturdays and Mondays and that sort of thing. Ryan Pike, who is a reporter in Calgary, he is a DFO Calgary guy. He said, unless I am mistaken, this is, there will be zero nationally televised Battle of Alberta games. What? Now that's a bit of a misnomer because two of them are on Amazon,

which the NHL would consider national because it's a streaming service and it is not blacked out regionally. Is it television? There is one on Monday night hockey as well and one on regional TV. I can't believe they put any on regional TV. Why are you having a Battle of Alberta on regional TV? I don't understand, even if the flames are not supposed to be that good this year. But you look at, so there are people that are furious, by the way, now.

Now that people have figured out that SportsNets charging more for the Monday nights. We said it. We're like, all you're doing is delaying the inevitable. What was crazy was like Matt Sakeris and Rick Dollywall in Vancouver both going like, yeah, I'm not going to do it. And if I missed the Monday Night Canucks games, what have I missed? Right? Like everybody's pissed. I think eventually they'll probably do it.

Average fans, sure, if you cover. Yeah, you should probably watch the game. There's probably other ways to watch, I think, perhaps. But I look at this and I go, okay, I know it's a bit of a, it's like, you know, we're kind of splitting hairs a little bit here. But the fact that now for the first time, I think since Calgary and Edmonton entered the league, there is no national battle of Alberta game on actual television is a big crossing the Rubicon moment. We've been seeing this was going to happen for a while. Am I saying it's a crying shame that it's not?

saying that. Because I think Amazon specifically, a lot of people have Prime for a lot of different reasons other than just watching hockey. And I actually really like the Prime broadcast and the picture's better and they actually go to efforts to make the broadcast good, which is different from some of the other people that are broadcasting games.

But I look at that and I go, I do think we should mark this. That's a big thing. They do so this is going to be me glass half full. Yeah. They can change their mind. Yes, they can. So they've released the schedule, and I've brought this example up before, I'll bring it up again. I think it was

2011 or 2012. Sydney Crosby's comeback game from his long layoff from injury. It was a, I think it was a Sunday game against the New York Islanders, the kind of game that would never be nationally televised in Canada, right? It's two non-Canadian teams. CBC, who this is pre-Rogers deal, went, we're nationally televised. And this. game and it was up for free on on their website as well and it was gangbusters so many people watch that game so i don't know like do you think i was about to say do you think this is like an indictment on where the flames are but for it's connor mac david yeah you should have as many nationally televised oilers games as humanly possible i honestly think you can just take all eighty two flames

game take out all 82 i mean he's the best player in the league who's shutting out that off. Who's flicking through the channels and shutting that off? There are very few players who I think could draw audiences. Like, I'm a Leaf fan, but I'm going to watch the Oilers and whoever on a Tuesday. Yeah, I'd probably watch that, at least for a period

or two. By the time he retires, he's likely top five in scoring ever. Likely, I think it's a lock. Like, this guy is just on fire. You should see the players he's already ahead of. It's so stupid. and he's freshly 30?

If 30, I'm not sure. 30, 30, I think he's 30. That's crazy. Jesse, do you think, like, obviously it's still a national game. It's not on conventional television. That's one thing. This seems to be, like, we've been asking for this for a long time. Have we not?

Like, hey, put it, if you can't, like, put this stuff on streamers and knock the blackouts out and we're fine, right? Like, let's do this. Is it, I mean, I guess it's just the way the world is now finally, we've finally admitted the television model is failing and it's not coming back. Yeah, how many games did you say there were? There's four of them. And Ryan said there will be two on Amazon and then one on SportsNet Monday Night Hockey and then one is regional television.

Okay. So I guess the NHL looks at it as three of the four games did fall on national nights. Right. And then the SportsNet decided to rejig their package. So they took some of those to their streaming service, right? I know a lot of the people listening to this show on Spotify and Apple and YouTube are not going to care because you're all digitally savvy and everything. But Canada is really big and sparse. And a lot of the internet countrywide sucks.

And like there's a lot of communities that streaming is not. ideal for them at all. You know what I mean? And this is going to shut off a lot of people. Games that are on streamers are not accessible to everyone and it's not even a money issue necessarily. A lot of people across this country are not going to be able to watch this games even if they had the money for it. It's funny. Watching it's amazing how how sometimes I feel like oh my God, how do people not know this and I realize like why the hell would they know this? People are like well sports net really lost out like they They lost the Hockey Night and Canada brand to CBC.

No, no, no. CBC always owned that, and they continue to own that. And the reason that they want it off CBC is because it makes you pay premium prices for it. It's not because CBC kicked them off or it's not like I've seen like reporters from national newspapers not get this right. CBC owns the rights to Hockey Night in Canada the name. Sportsnet was using that as paint on their broadcast and they were using the CBC channels as distribution because Steve. 12 years ago, as you mentioned, internet, no matter how bad it is

elsewhere or in smaller communities here, it was way worse back then. And they needed to get to every home in Canada and CBC is available to every home in Canada. Writers from national newspapers got something wrong about CBC. Or about anybody. Can I guess which? I can't believe how little research has done to the media in this country.

But I think, I do think this is a bigger moment that people really give it credit for. And I think now, So obviously I think they're going to upgrade that regional game because Oilers Flames is always Oilers Flames. I do feel like the adjustment this year to what the new normal is is going to be painful. Yeah. And maybe that's just how change works. Yeah.

But this is a lot more abrupt, I think, than I think people are ready for. And the reason that there are still people that are sort of in a haze about this is because the season hasn't hit yet. Oh, yeah. When you realize your team's playing and you can't watch. How hectic was your week? Yeah. You had groceries and things to do and whatever. You're not thinking about this.

Kids going back to school and daycare and the traffic's a little different. And I am curious. Everyone's mindset is different. I'm really curious to see. Not the first Monday, but the last Monday of the season or the Mondays in the playoff races because the first Monday, the ratings are going to be terrible because a lot of people are just not going to have the package. By the time March rolls are. I want to know what those SportsNet Monday Night Hockey ratings are.

And here's the thing about them. We'll never get to know because they're streamed digitally. And because of the way the Canadian broadcast system has been set up, you don't have to share streaming numbers. The only way to find them out will be through advertising agencies. And so I will be leveraging my contacts to find out because they don't actually have to share those publicly. If it's a broadcast on a television, you have to share it.

If it's broadcast digitally, you do not. As a YouTuber that drives me feral. Yeah. Because the whole time I've had my channel, like I've had access to, here you go. Yeah. Here it is right here. Here's how many people watched. And I get to follow the number just like you get to follow.

Well, and if you're an agency rep buying this, like if you're like representing a big brand, you just have to believe what they tell you. You don't know. Well, our measurement system says we got this many views. I have to. We have to go. here's how many people watch our show. They get to go, it's the NHL. That's right.

All right. Yeah, it's interesting. Yes, it's the NHs. How many people are watching? It's like people that dine out on Facebook ads and like, look, Facebook told me how great of a job Facebook did. I'm like, did they? Okay.

You know how many kids are going to learn swear words watching their dad try to run a stream on Prime? Yes, I know. I know. This year, countrywide. Let's talk a little bit about Brady Kachuk. he was in the NHL Media Day, obviously along with the Hughes Brothers,

which we're also going to talk about. He was asked about, obviously, like, the fan base loved Brady, right? Love Brady. Why wouldn't they? And they kind of asked about his reaction to the social media and also, you know, how it's going to look when he comes back. And he said, the hardest thing for me is people saying that my mind wasn't in it.

And I've been a year and a half trying to think about it. about it, and that's just not true. I feel like I'm able to look myself in the mirror, knowing I gave absolutely everything I had right to the end, and to see that was tough to see. But everybody has a right to say everything that they need to say or want to say, but all that stuff's in the past. I'm looking forward to the excitement of the new season. Now, the problem with that statement is we all saw the Wingman podcast with his dad on it. So he needs, I don't know who he needs to try to convince other than himself because I don't think he's going to have Sends fans on side. I certainly don't believe that. Do I believe he was trying hard? Absolutely.

Do I believe that his heart was in it? I have a hard time with that. Yeah, I'm having a hard time as a content creator because I would talk myself around this, you know, for the last 10 years and wax poetically and be like, yeah, I think this and I think that. And now, the only thing come into mind is I don't believe you so anyway and I want to move on and we're not

we can talk about this as much as you want but he says that and I'm like cool man so anyway I don't believe you what else do you want to talk about Jesse do you believe the part in there that irks me about Brady Kichuk's words he's using a lot there

I'm shocked that you know so many the part that irks me is he's like oh this is the first time in my mind when, you know, it hasn't been in my mind that I want to move on from Ottawa. And I don't believe him that the first time he ever thought about playing in Florida with his brother was 10 days after the conclusion of the season when he went to stay house and said, I want to trade. That's the date.

He told Stales, hey, I want to move on from Ottawa. Ideally, you can trade me to Florida so I can play with my brother. I don't believe that that's the first day he ever, he ever thought about that. And if you believe that, I got a bunch of magic beans to sell you. Oh, yeah. Like, that's crazy. Here, let me look into the camera. I can bench 500 pounds.

There you go. Just take it. Just believe everything you're sold. Absolutely. Like, he says my mind was always in it. No. I don't believe you. That would mean your mind up until that moment was all Ottawa.

And you just think about Ottawa senators, I want to be here forever. No. You wouldn't make a life-altering decision like this without a lot of thought and a lot of talk with your family because that's who you chose at the end of this. And you think this is the first time ever when you made the request that your mind wasn't in Ottawa? That's just a lie. Elliot Friedman said something that I listened to today that I was just like, if that ain't it. He said the impression that he got from Players on the Sends is not that they're glad that he's gone, but they're glad that it's over.

Well, yeah. Does that sound like something that was brief? Yes, that is exactly it. Yeah, you know what? We lost one of our best players and our captain, and we're just glad it's over. Yeah. I don't think it was a giant cloud over the locker room or anything like that, but it was a small one.

It was a rain cloud in the distance. You're like, ah, I got a tea time at nine. I don't know if we get rained on or not. Well, and also, like, let's not pretend. So the beautiful thing about Brady Kachuk, and you really, really got to give him credit and thank him, is he's full of shit and there's a digital footprint of him being full of shit? Like, it's, no, it's great. I really, I genuinely, a whole compilation. God, I hope they never cancel that show. Like, when, uh, when, what was it? When the Leafs didn't

stick up for Matthews? Well, you know what? We would have done followed by him not doing that, like a week later. Yeah, in the playoffs. Yakum Chuck, KTFO. Captain on the ice In the camera shot Couldn't give a shit Yeah At least if you had an excuse For like never saying that

And always being soft babies You talk like you're a tough guy And said you were going to do it And then didn't do it I wish I wish Reporters wouldn't lose their credentials For just being like

So you're like a liar Yeah no you can't do it You're a liar He's a liar I think the reporter's job Is to let them lie and then let you. Yes.

And let you make that decision. Yes, but the social contract has been broken because people aren't smart enough to see the lie anymore, apparently. I think they're pretty smart on this. Yeah. I hope so.

I think you see right. Oh, no, send fans. Stephen. Keep your, don't call people stupid. People are absolutely stupid. What are you talking about?

People about different subjects, but this one. Rule the tape, Your Honor. This isn't about. People are absolutely stupid. This is about stupid people. It's about ready to get shot.

And I just drink my water. I can see, no, no, I was saying I could see, I could see through this. Oh, oh, right? And I think sense fans, turned around. I was like, why do you have my water? I think sense fans can see right through this. And I think Florida fans can too, but they don't give a shit because we got Brady Kichuk and you don't.

And I get, I get that too. I have been a lurking on Reddit. Sense fans are not stupid at all. No. And pissed. They hate this guy. And I know the internet is not real life and Reddit is not the internet and not. not real life, but.

I think his name is Jack Richardson. Did you see his tweet earlier this summer? I might have. He's like, finally, he's like, finally I can admit publicly that I have found all the Brady Kichuk

can't read memes very funny. I mean. Like it's, they're my favorite hockey memes. They're very funny. Apparently he finds them funny. Yeah, I think he's in on the joke. Yeah.

Now, good. I actually think those guys would probably be, like I think they're some of the best ambassadors for the game. Sure. Like what they're doing with their podcast and talking about it. I think he can watch.

and chew gum. Human beings can be more than one thing at once. I think Brady Kachuk is charming. And an enormous liar. Like, yeah. An enormous demonstrable liar. Right. Yeah, totally. Here's footage of him being full. Maybe not

lying. Lying is him going my name's Michael Kachuk. Right. That's not his name. Yeah, he doesn't lie to me, Brady. Insurance fraud like Mark Walter. Sure. It's vivid. You don't have to tell the truth when you're in a scrum or you're on podium. That's right there, Mr. Sore.

Yeah. God, so many people look stupid there. Fibbon. He's livid. He's allowed to spin the story however he wants, which is what he's doing. No, I would have studied. You know what I would have, why I ought to. And then Carter Acomchuk gets KTFO and what does he do? Well, here's the thing. If Brad Marchand said it, I would believe him because he would be in. Matthew, I would believe him because he would be in. Those guys, look at the way they treat Brandon Hagel.

I do believe them. Matthew Kachuk gets into things where there's no reason to get into it. He just does it because he's a piece of shit. Yeah. And like he's crazy on the edge. No, but Brady, though, has one of the most metal gifts in hockey

over the past couple years. It was someone huge on the Red Wings. Let's say Edvittinson. It was someone huge on the Red Wings. Okay. Was step into one of his teammates. And Kachuk gets in there, cuts him off, squares,

up to him and he's looking up at him. It's like a, it's like a friggin meme from a medieval video game. And I was just like, that guy's metal. Great captain. I hate that he's on a divisional rival, would love to have him on my team. And then he turned into that. He turned into podcast tough talk guy. Was it when Elmer Soder Blum was on the Red Wing? Maybe it was Soder Blum. It was someone huge. Like someone big enough that Brady Kichuk would be

looking up at him. Hayden has been waving, furious. I just want to say like the, what Jesse was saying about like Brady knew beforehand.

I knew that he was thinking about before when right after he got traded, maybe like a few days after he was interviewed and he was asked like, who are you excited to play with? And all the players

he mentioned were just their nicknames. He was like, oh, barky and Benny and marshy. It's like, oh, okay. So yeah, you definitely were thinking about this for a while. Yeah, well, I mean, he hung out with them following his brother's playoff runs.

Yeah, and he's at every playoff game. And he would go to the games, root for him. And then his brother's like, I'm not fucking going Ottawa. Yeah. But like, he also said that on the podcast. I'm not going to Canada. Meanwhile, there's Brady going to Canada. Beers in his back pocket.

High-fiving flames fans. They're like, this is great. Listen, when you're in, when you're in, you come to call me in his Canada, you might catch the virus. So, you know, anyway, I want to say this. So Bruce Garriock wrote in the Ottawa citizen about the senators. And I thought this sentence was funny, being a leaf fan and knowing what's coming for senators fans. Okay. The sentence is this.

And I don't think Bruce is trying to be, he's not trying to do anything here, but L.O.L. You ready? The senators are sick of talking about Kachuk. But this is a storyline that will follow them until the team drops the puck October 3rd. Oh. Oh, I don't think so. The word until. Oh, my sweet summer shot. I don't think so.

By the way, that game is against the Maple Leafs in Scotia Bank Arena. No, it won't. That is merely the beginning. You think October 3rds? The last time the Brady Kachuk thing is going to follow them around? Oh, no, baby. This is all season. This is all season.

There's no way around that, especially if the Panthers are good. Leaf fans, I hope you saved all the receipts for all the Marner trips you guys. Now, this could turn though, because here's the thing. Rent is doom. Marner wasn't right during the regular season, but because he was playing center, it wasn't really fair. He was actually quite good. And he was spectacular in the postseason right up until the finals where it kind of petered off

for the whole team at the end, where with Brady, if he's bad, Seds fans are actually going to be elevated by that. They'll be happy to have this following them around because they'll be like, ah, ah, and then, but if he's amazing. then that's going to be tough for them. I don't think Brady's going to be bad on the Panthers. There's too much talent around there to not prop him up. He's going to be on like the third line.

Exactly. Exactly. He doesn't have to be the car. With Lundell and Lusterainen? Like it's, they have so many riches. Yeah. Like everywhere in that lineup, there are guys

and you just stick Brady Kachuk in there. He's going to have a good stuff. Jesse, what are they going to do without Mackie Samaskavich, though? I think they'll be fine. You think so? Oh, man. It's a big loss. I think Seattle wins the division.

Just on Mackey. Yeah, just on Mackey. Yeah, I think, dude. I know disrespect to Bruce, but like, this does not follow them until October 3rd. This follows them until April 15th and then potentially after. It peaks in on the 28th or 29th when Florida goes to Ottawa. It's probably the peak of it. But all season long, because you traded him in division, you play him so many times that every single game you play, it's going to be a storyline.

And then you could end up playing each other. they're the first round. Man, you know what? The same division. You know what would be exhausting and shitty is if people brought this up every single day of your living, breathing human life and every time you responded to the things people said, they go, oh, why do you got to keep bringing it up? Oh.

Now in that same article, Bruce Gary. Why do you got to? Oh! Talks about the potential for the captain and who it might be. Now, Bruce mentions Thomas Shabbat, who's the long. along a serving senator, but he's only got two years left on his deal. So that's a bit of a challenge. Jake Sanderson's name is also there.

I hate that that's a factor, by the way. Well, contract status. Well, hang on. So Sanderson's also an option, right? Long-term signy. Of course. But American. And Tim Stutzler, who's obviously we talked about.

That's also a name that's out there. And it's interesting, too, that Claude Drew's name came up. The possibility of giving veteran Claudeauroo the sea for a year has been discussed, but what message would that send to the three other players? What message do you think it would send to the three other players, and do you think they would mind? You're not ready. That's what it's sent.

Why do they need a captain? I think it's good to have one. I don't. I think it's overrated. I agree with to both of you. Appears in the locker room and the guys decide who want to be up. I think it's more of a media thing. Like somebody's got to go out and talk.

Claude can do that. I don't know, you got three A's. They'll all go talk. Who cares? That's true. You can, I mean, I guess the good news for the sense is you could justify pretty much anything, right? Like, he's the captain. Oh, okay, so he's the bridge captain between Brady and whoever is next.

Someone else's captain and Drew wears an A. Oh, he's going to be showing them the ropes. And you could justify basically anything. You know, we were just chirping the sentence about, you know, everything that's gone on. It's not like they don't have talent. They have really good players. They're going to be a really good team. I mean, the leadership group, that's semantics.

Exactly. Everyone takes their turn. Okay, so if Giroux gets an A and Shabbat gets an A, but Sanderson doesn't get an A because somebody else, exudely got an A. Like, remember how the Leafs had to rotate A's with a particular player because it might have upset the camp? I don't think they're that sensitive.

Okay. I think they will handle it better. I don't think it's a story about who gets the A's in Ottawa. This is Roman Polack, right? You're talking about Roman. Yeah. And like, I didn't need the Nick Falino captain era in Chicago. Those were two years I could have just done without.

And if they want to do a Claude Drew captain era in Ottawa, I'd be like, okay, fine. But I'm not going to reminisce about that. I don't know, but you guys, was that a great bridge captain to Bader? Like, was that necessary? That's going to be such a funny one Like in 20 years Like you're at the end of Bedard's

Career and you're like Yeah I grew up watching this guy And you're going to look back And you're going to be like What happened there? Two years Nick Polino wore the sea in Chicago Yeah

I remember when Dave Lowry Was the captain of the flames And I was like Why Dave Lowry? Back, this is like 25 years ago I do not I was paid attention to the flames Because my grandfather was a huge flames fan

And I like was like, why he, because usually back then, when you're like 12, you think like, well, the captain should be the best player, right? I miss the art of having a depth guy as your captain. You know what? Or like a rough and tumbled defenseman, like almost like what a Ken Danico would have been. Darien Hatcher. Darian Hatcher, perfect example.

Do you remember the Tampa Bay Lightning and I believe it was Tim the tool man Taylor? Mm-hmm. Remember? Was it Tim Taylor? Yes. It was? Yeah, yeah. Tim Taylor.

I don't know if Chris Grattan was ever their captain either but I know he was an A for a bit and I always thought Their list of captains is crazy and then it's Tim Taylor. Yeah. Yeah.

That was in the dark years though and Hayton might remember this the Minnesota Wild just rotated captain one year like just a bunch of different players wore the sea. I mean for me like my main fandom came

when Miko Kovu was captain and then he was just captain forever and then they're just like all right Spurgeon you're the old guy now here. Fergent is maybe the closest thing we have to that. What about, right? Like, where does he rank in terms of the best Minnesota wild players?

Like currently? Yeah. Bordering top 10, maybe. Spurgeon? Top 10? Maybe. I hope he's top 10. Dude, Boldie Faber.

Capriza. Hughes. Erickson Eck. Both goalies. Hughes. both goal it now we'll take the goal you're already at six

like yeah Brodeen Brodeen Brodee yeah man what a loss that way Where does he rank

amongst defensemen Like Four I got like Trennan Trennan Hell yeah Hits leader

Trennan Hell Okay okay What about like Like here's one Search Savard was the captain of the Canadians

for two years 79 81 Just a rough and tumbled Defestman who people liked This is a good era

Yeah I don't know That's true Lost Art of I like I actually kind of like the Claudeau-Jureau's captain for the senator's thing, just because he's, he went out of his way to sign there in the bad years because he's from there. That should matter.

And he went out of his way to stay there. Yeah, I think you can, I think they're in a good spot. Okay. I'd love to sit here and be like, the send stink, but no, they're in a good spot. They can only have, they currently have, they have four A's, and they swap, because you can only have three during a game, and three of them get it. Claudeau is one of them. I think it's fine.

Like, I think they sit with the four A's right now, and they're good. They play in Canada's The rush capital. When are they going to be brave and make their alternate captains EH? Eh. They're wearing the A.

Stop it. All right. It's Stutzla, Sanderson, Shabbat, Jiru, by the way. I think that's a good for some. I think that's great. Yeah. On Wednesday's show,

I basically, you know, we talked about the NHL and went through some of the funny faces from the face scans or whatever and the reviews are terrible and IGN's review, whatever. But like Steve even said,

It's been a few years since I played it. That I handed over money to these guys and played it because they stopped sending any free copies like they do sometimes in the media because we pan their game in like 2017. Now, I thought, and I've been trying to do this for a few years now to bring him on. We wanted to bring an actual streamer who actually plays this and has actually played this and has made a career actually playing it. Welcome to the show for the first time and long, long overdue. Tugie! Let's go! Gentlemen, it is an honor as a very long time fan,

a day one podcast listener. I actually, I tried to track it down and I couldn't. I remember the first couple episodes you gave, like you had like a card giveaway to early listeners and stuff like that, but I couldn't track it down. But yeah, no, that was, 2013? Yeah, yeah.

So that was a thing I used to do is I just, I had. We used to mail people, hockey, cards. Yeah, I just had a bunch of cards from my collection and I would just write letters to people and mail them. I remember that. And then it got to a point where I was like, I actually don't have time for this. So you were one of them?

I was. Yeah. Wow. That's so cool. Well, we're glad that you're still here after all these years. There's a two years. Here's a thing. This game your short review is what? I did put out a video the other day entitled

NHL 27 is a disaster. So I feel like that sums it up, unfortunately. Well, no, no, no, there's room for interpretation. So what you're saying is it, like, it could be good. You know, it could be. I know a lot of people who are playing the game and having a pretty good time. I can't say that I'm one of them. I gave it a, you know, I gave it a shot, but I feel like in a lot of ways, the very few ways they were promising, hey, this is what we have going on,

even those ways fell short. Is that the reason why you think it's a disaster that they couldn't deliver on their promises? Or is there something specific like the gameplay and the game modes or which part of it is the disaster? I think from what I've seen in just regards to people's response to the game, it has been, hey, here's what was promised. Connected franchise, it's coming back. And you know, you say something like that and people are like, oh, it's going to be GM connected. It's not GM connected.

from, you know, what, 2013, I believe is when that was first added. Yep. So, you know, hey, we have this big selling feature of a mode. We added it back, but it's going to be another year or two probably until it resembles what it looked like all of those years ago. You have the second biggest selling feature is probably the presentation changes. And obviously you guys already talked about some of those player faces and stuff like that that people will, you know,

latch on to presentation and stuff like that, but even mentioning like, hey, we have goal songs in the game and they do. What they didn't mention was, hey, some of these goal songs are going to be out of date for some, like the,

you know, the Leafs still have hollow notes and the Calgary flames are still rocking. I think it's, what was the band Monster Truck or something like that? I think that they haven't used that song. I heard someone say in seven to eight years. Wow.

So it, I think that was maybe, be a transparency issue where if you explain to people like hey even in Columbus like ACDC or Van Halen for Toronto like it was just very expensive so we took a different approach but nothing was set outside of authentic songs and stuff like that I think it's just been oh and then you have the the AI commentary as well with the new commentary team with John Boutragas and Darren Pang being added in and that wasn't disclosed officially by EA until yesterday so

So I just feel like it's a sense of betrayal from a lot of people. So you primarily stream NHL or is it a lot of other stuff? I did. Like NHL was the thing. Yeah. NHL was the thing that I was certainly known for building up through YouTube and Twitch. And over the years, it's been less and less of that and more and more of other sports games and some other things. This was your answer.

I was going to have a follow up depending on your answer. When was the last time NHL was your primary game? It was the game you played the most in any given year. Probably been two or three years at this point. You know, it's actually an interesting question.

I'll have to go back through like the metrics that I have on Xbox to see what it is. But it's definitely been a couple of years and just, you know, like I said, slowly dwindling down. I was actually looking through my YouTube catalog and I had a video for

NHL 23 entitled NHL 23 is not good. So it's been a trend, unfortunately. Because in between your first listen to this podcast and today, you've been building up a very successful business on YouTube and Twitch streaming games. And it just sounds like NHL has just fallen off the map. How do you feel about the gameplay? Is it shifted much in the last couple of years? Because that's always been my gripe is like, I can pick up the game tomorrow.

and I can do a lot of the moves I used to do on NHL 22 and 23 and they're still kind of working and it just doesn't take me back along to just get back into it I don't know I feel like that's a bad thing I don't know I almost yeah you can just pick it up and play it like you did last year and I'm always like no this is too easy yeah I think from a gameplay perspective it kind of goes back to a conversation I've been having with people lately in regards to like this

series used to innovate and it doesn't really do that anymore. If you look back 20 years ago with NHL-07, that was the first year of the skill stick, you know, tying the right thumbstick to perfectly mimic your player's stick. Huge deal.

And then, you know, like NHL-09, that same year they added Bia Pro and EASHL in the same year. The next year was the big GM mode change with the BlackBerrys. Oh, I love the Blackberry.

That was my favorite versions of the game. NHL 11 was, for better or worse, NHL 11 was the first year of Ultimate team. And then I mentioned like NHL 13 had GM connected and stuff like that. So you're talking about like this really short amount of time. They would add in all of these innovations. In that time, I've talked to like former 2K developers who worked on the NHL 2K games. Like they said, you know, paraphrasing here, but basically we had no shot. with what they were doing on a year by year basis.

And if you look at these games, to Jesse's point, there hasn't really been that innovation for the last however long, especially from a gameplay perspective where it feels like on a year to year basis, it's okay, is the poke check going to be strong this year or not? Is stick lifting going to work or not? The big one this year is, you know, if you're a more competitive player, there were some skating options that you had using left trigger or L2 to get different movement that created a bit of a skill gap between casual players who were like,

I don't really know what's going on versus the people that play all the time. You'd run into them online and you would get absolutely smoked. So to Jesse's point, right? Like gameplay-wise, it just hasn't been that much. And for me, my biggest issue with the gameplay, it's one specific thing. And it's the way the incidental cause. contact works in the game. So in real life, obviously, it's a bouncing puck. All you have to do is be in the way. And you'll be good to go. You can break a puck loose stuff like that. Positioning matters.

But in the game, you don't even necessarily have to hit a button to take the puck away from your opponent. You know, if you're playing Ultimate Team versus you can control one player, stand in front of your goal, set the computers to be super aggressive. and those computers don't have to body check. They don't have to stick lift. They just have to get close enough to you that they can get you the puck. And then, you know, you have possession without actually having to do anything. Wow. That's been the killer for me.

Wait, wait. As an EASHL defenseman, you might be selling me on this. Your life just got a whole lot easier with Mike Stevens up front and you in the back. Wait, wait. No, I'm not playing with Mike anymore. He takes too many penalties. This is interesting. No, he's the type of player I would go into taking...

Wait a sec. No, this game is good. Get Tugi out of here. Tugi, I got to... My question for you is, is I'm... It seems like the play hasn't taken a step forward, and you mentioned 2K. Now, there were a bunch of people. I thought that this license was just NHL and EA, and that's all who could produce the game.

Not exclusive? Apparently, it is non-exclusive. It seems to me that once 2K and... any other challengers exist because I'm old enough to have played PowerPlay 98, which is a computer games. Yeah, NHL hits. It seems like nobody else wants to take a stab at this. And it seems like EA knows that.

And they're kind of going, well, we don't really have to innovate because what are you going to do? Is that kind of what's happened here is that nobody else thinks there's enough money to be made and EA doesn't really care because it's a monopoly anyway? whether or not that's actually true on EA's part, obviously I can't say for sure, but that is definitely the sentiment from people that play this game. If you look at sports video games in general, and I've had this conversation plenty of times, and I'm glad you mentioned it, right?

Like, for me, growing up, there were games for every sport. There was the more simulation style. There was the more arcade style. You had your choice of what you wanted to play. Now, if you want to play an NHL game, It's just the A. NHL. There's nothing else. There are obviously independent alternatives, but there's only the one game that has the license.

And from that gameplay perspective, again, I think it's like a combination of they try to appease the people that like the more arcade-style. And they try to appease the people that like the more realistic style. So nobody's necessarily happy. But it's the same thing with basketball games where, you know, NBA 2K. That's the only NBA game you're playing right now. There's no NBA live anymore. What was that? Like, court side back in the day.

Like, there were so many different games. There's one baseball game. There's, well, one MLB baseball game. There's one NFL game that's just kind of the way things have gone. Right. Is that there's the one game for everything. And NHL, unfortunately, isn't exempt to that. And yeah, I mean, the question is, right?

Like, oh, okay, if somebody was going to make another game, would they have done so already? the answer seems to be yes, but nobody's done it. So whether or not it's a matter of like, oh, well, the, you know, the amount of money a game could generate smaller player pool, whatever it might be, you know, you have these examples with these other sports games as well where none of these developers have really pushed to say, hey, fan base doesn't seem to be happy with that. Let us have a shot at this. Got it. Interesting. Okay. Well, you know, it's a shame because it seems like there was some. real hope in this year. And I think every year there's always that little bit of hope of like, come on, this is going to be it. And every year it seems to be the same result. And I'm, I'm sad about that because these are the games we all grew up playing. Like I had the NHL

99 with Eric Lindross on it for N64. I'm sad because I lost that hope two or three years ago. Yeah. I just don't expect it to be good anymore. Yeah. It's not. So I'm more upset that I'm right. So, Tuki, what do you do for your business now that this game stinks? Like what are you playing? how do you pivot man oh my god are you excited for gta i assume so gta is one of those things where it's like it's going to be the biggest game on the planet

so it's like i'm just i'm probably going to do something else in that regard but i appreciate the word business being used because it's defined in the loosest terms uh in regards to what i do but like i said i you know years ago like i was always playing growing up like every type of like franchise mode

every type of sports game anyways so i knew i always had that as a fallback So, you know, recently it's been, you know, some NBA 2K college football stuff like that. But YouTube side especially, like I have no problem going back and playing some of the older games. Even at this point, some of the games that people are like, oh, man, this isn't really that good. Like, I played NHL 19 recently and it's like, yeah, it's still not great, but it already has the nostalgia factor going for it. Just because we're that far removed. So it's at least interesting in that way.

But yeah, I mean, there's always different things to play. That's something I encourage people, you know, if you're unhappy with these games, like, there are alternatives. There are the older games. I get like, hey, if you're an ultimate team player and EASHL player, it's like, well, I like playing the games with my friends or playing competitively, and you kind of need the new game to do that. But there are still the options out there. But, you know, to Adam's point in regards to like that hope and optimism, I don't think I had ever seen the community be this down, actually, on a game. game before it came out like they were this year.

You know, there were years like NHL 15 on next gen that came out and it was very incomplete, we'll go with. Okay. It looked good, but it had no modes compared to what you would have had the year before. And then like NHL 24 was supposed to be this big change and that didn't really work out either. This game, people were ready to be disappointed. And from what I've heard, a lot of people have been even more disappointed. than they thought they could be.

They were not disappointed in their expectation of being disappointed. I predict NHL 28th is going to be a success because of how bad this is. You think so? They're going to be like, all right. We should probably do something. Humans are creatures of necessity, innovation through necessity. Yeah. All right.

We've sucked for like, I don't know, six straight years. Let's actually, let's try. Last question. If you were Mason, Lurai, would you sue? I mean, yeah. That's rough. It's a rough face scan. Tugi, thank you so much. And please give a plug to all where people can find you if they've never heard of you before.

So it's on YouTube, Tugie 24, T-O-U-G-I-E-24. Same on Twitch. Like I said, a lot of franchise mode stuff for every sports game, that type of thing. Streaming every night. So, yeah. Like I said, I appreciate it very much, guys. Thank you so much. Thanks for coming on.

Thanks for making time, brother. Hey, we're getting into SDPN live show season. But this one's a little bit different because with the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Road Hockey event fueled by Longos we're doing a live stream in here Tuesday, September 22nd,

right here on our channel for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Road Hockey Event Field by Longos for its 15th anniversary year. Why does this matter? Well, two and five Canadians are expected to face cancer in their lifetime and approximately one and four are expected to die from it. Almost every

family will be touched. The Princess Margaret is the only cancer center in Canada. to treat all 200 plus types of cancer. Wow. It's incredible and we obviously want to help raise money for it. So there will be some guests that put, that the SDP put on. We're going to try to raise some funds with the Princess Margaret. There are two ways to get off the bench.

You can register your team right now at PMCF Roadhockey.ca. Or just tune in on the 22nd. Every shot take and save made and dollar raised by the PMCF Road Hockey Tournament, including on the stream September 22nd, supports three priority areas that they believe will create a world free from cancer. Number one, early detection,

number two, innovative treatments, and number three, comprehensive support. So check it out. That starts Tuesday, September 22nd. I believe it 7 p.m., right, Jesse? Just to make sure. Sounds good. All right, that's when we're starting it.

We will see you then. You got to dump out your wallet. That was a great read. Hear that? It's your money calling. It wants a promotion. Elevate your savings with the Scotia high-interest savings account. Always earn high regular interest rates that grow the more you save and invest.

Conditions apply. Visit scotiabank.com slash h-I-S-A to learn more. Scotia Bank. You're richer than you think. I don't know if you guys know this, but Quinn Hughes joined a cover band this summer. And he is exclusively covering Bon Jovi. Because with regards to his next contract, he said, it's my life. Can we just go into the weekend?

He said, it's my life. I'm not going to do anything to make someone else happy. Obviously, I like to think of myself as a thoughtful person. I think everybody's got to do whatever makes them happy. And where the chips fall, they fall, which is not quite the saying, but we got what he was saying. And he said, this is going to get done, this extension. Whenever I feel it needs to be done. I don't feel backed up against the wall.

I'm very thoughtful. I want to make sure I'm taking my time on everything. And I want to make sure I'm making a decision that is going to be good for everyone. I don't know if you're doing that. You want to make sure the decision is good for you. And that's fair. It should be.

This was a couple days ago, right? Yeah, this is that NHL media thing. Right. But then I believe he did 32 thoughts. He did after that. And it's a lot. He did 32 thoughts at that and they posted it in the thing. Right.

I saw those quotes before that interview. Oh yeah. And I kind of wonder if someone was with him and went, maybe dial it back. Hmm? Maybe, maybe chill. Because those quotes, I know Hayden landed like a wet fart in church. Yep. On a Sunday during a wedding.

And then it was a little bit more like hunky dory after that. Well, I, uh, the first interview is always the truest one. Frege said the interview was, he said, well, he's like, Quinn Hughes was in control. And from what I heard, Quinn Hughes was actually quite sharp with certain interviewers, not 32 thoughts. And those quotes landed sharp because they were. And that's Quinn. Yeah. And he's always kind of been like that.

I frankly, as someone who has interviewed Quinn Hughes, you don't need to send him to these. there's other wild there's other while but i'm frankly surprised he was there well he said we haven't had that many conversations this summer because of how i wanted my summer to go in terms of being fresh and resetting and enjoying the training and being around friends and family as we get going here i'm sure it'll heat up but i don't feel backed against the wall where i have to make a signing before camp and and so

you got away this not just as quinn hughes guys i think you got to weigh this as the owner said on radio at the beginning of the summer, we are resigning him. I'm going to stick to what I said. Was it Wednesday? That like, yeah, obviously you'd like to have a deal done by now. And he doesn't need to do anything. I think Bill Guerin knew the risk when he made this trade. And as uncomfortable as it makes people feel, I think he's all right.

I think he is personally all right with it. I don't know if he is personally feeling the pressure of this. You can't back off of what you said when he made the trade. Oh, brass balls, Billy. Well, you think the guy that you labeled big balls, brass balls, Billy is now panicking because he only has like, what, six months to pull something off? I don't get the sense that he's panicking. No. Right. So I think he's happy to. sitting it. But Jesse, do you get the sense that maybe it's gone on further than the wild management and ownership thought it might? No, because I think this has always been Quinn Hughes's M.O. Because with those quotes, like, I know the beginning quote that you read, there's like going around on Twitter and read it and whatever, but he does keep talking in that interview. If you, if you read the whole piece by Mark Lazarus, he says a lot of positive things about Minnesota. And one of the things that really stood out to me was how... The airport.

He talked about playing with Brock Faber and how playing with Brock Faber will extend years on his career because of how easy it is. And that doesn't sound like to me a guy with one foot out the door in Minnesota. That sounds to me like a guy who's still weighing his options. And at the end of the season last year in his postseason avail, he said that he really liked playing Minnesota and he's open to resigning there. It's just he's going to take a summer and make his decision. I think this is just kind of who Quinn Hughes is at this point. Like you're not going to get a lot from him. And I think we can all, we all know that from every

picture of him in Vancouver. And every time now he opens his mouth and he's quoted, you're just not going to get a gauge on how he's feeling. But I do think he's enjoying his time in Minnesota. And that's only going to help him push him in the direction where Minnesota management wants him to be. But I don't think anybody's going to force him to make a decision before he's completely ready to make a decision. He's not sure of himself in the way that like, you know, your big, boisterous, brash guys are, like he's not traditionally confident. He's confident like Carl Pilkington is confident. Who is that? Carl Pilkington is the main character from an idiot abroad with Ricky Jervais and I think Stephen Merchant, where they just take their friend who doesn't like going places and they

send him places. But like that guy is very sure of himself, right? But he's just kind of very monotone and miserable in his delivery. And that's, and that's Quinn. Yeah. He's so, the one thing Quinn Hughes is that Carl Pilkington absolutely is, is very unintentionally funny. Yes.

He is effortlessly unintentionally funny. Yeah. And like that Brock Faber thing, Oh, what a great point. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like he just, you know, we were just talking about how Brady Kachuk is dishonest with his digital footprint. I don't know if Quinn Hughes is capable of that.

No. I kind of like it. As much as those landed hard and people had their reactions to them, at least you know where he stands. I'll take that. I believe him when he says he doesn't know. I 100% believe him too. Yeah. Let me do the opposite of what I did earlier with Brady.

Okay, Quinn says a thing. I believe you. I believe him. I do. He doesn't know. I don't look at what Quinn Hughes said over the media tour at the media event and think like, oh, no, he's forcing his way to New Jersey right now. I think that's such a giant leap to take from Quinn Hughes in those quotes. Because when Quinn Hughes wants something, we have evidence that he's willing to push that and get what he wants in that.

when Vancouver was 32nd, and he brought this up too in that article by Mark Lazarus, when Vancouver was 32nd in the league, he said, this isn't fun, I don't want to be here anymore, and he wanted out, and he got a trade, and he got that done. So I truly think he does not know what decision he's going to make with his career at this current moment. I don't think he has some master plan to fool the fans in the media in manipulating this and playing it slow, I think he's still making a decision. On his podcast with Jack and Luke.

Like where his dad comes on. And his dad. Yeah. I'm taking what he's saying on surface level. I don't know if that's naive of me to think of Quinn Hughes in that way, but that's how I'm sitting here. Remember when Quinn Hughes's dad is like, Philip Gustafsson's a wimp?

Right. No, I don't recall that because that's an odd thing to do. I want to know if, okay, remember how it was Quinn to New Jersey all but done when he was a Vancouver conduct. Then he ends up in Minnesota, Quinna. And then it was like, wow. And the devils were not having a good year.

Ooh. Also, maybe it's Jack Hughes that ends up in Minnesota, whatever. Jack Hughes's deal has still got four years left. He will be 29 at the end of it. Oh, Jack. Jack Hughes. There's too many. If Quinn re signs, because now it's all, now it's swung back to you while he's going

to Minnesota, right? That's the, going to New Jersey. Ah, see? Quinn is going to New Jersey. What's Luke doing? Luke is taking paychecks for mediocre play. Luke's kind of, he's like the Kevin Jonas, right? You know, it's like, are we here for Nick?

He's the highest paid Hughes. I know. Yeah, he's the Kevin Jonas. He's on the album cover. Yeah, I know. He needs a bounceback season this year. He does. Because that contract looks egregious with how he played last year.

He needs to play behind Quinn. But my point is, like, you get that extension done. All of a sudden, it's like, well, the gravitational pull again is Jack Hughes to Minnesota with maybe Luke thrown in. I don't know. It's fascinating to watch how that's kind of gone back and forth because it does sort of feel like the brothers of this thing that they're very passionate about.

They want to play together. Yeah, but do people not realize two of the brothers are playing together? Like they're, yeah, but the third one and arguably the best one is not. Right now. Like Luke exists, people. Here's, okay, here's what you do if you're Bill Garin.

You go to Marcus and Nick Falino. and you give them 50 bucks. And you go, I need you guys to just constantly have loud arguments. Yeah. And end them all with, God, I hate playing with my brother.

Just shout, I hate playing with my brother. It's the worst. I should have never agreed to this. At the top of your lungs, the louder, I'll throw in another fiver. The louder you get.

Yeah. That's what they need to do. That's a good idea. In one of those interviews, Quinn mentioned how during his summer, he was like staying at a place that was kind of like down the street from Brady. So I don't know. Maybe there's some in Florida there. Brady and Quincy are all summer. Bray to Soda or? Maybe it's Cachuk brothers and Hughes brothers same team. Wow. Quinn Rise over in Quinn Rise. No, it doesn't have the same ring to it.

No. No. Anyway, the other thing from that from the the interviews that have happened at Media Day was Connor McDavid saying, I want to be coached. He's talking about Mike Babcock. He's talking to Friedgen Kyle. And he said in that, and I listened to the interview, he was actually quite thoughtful in that interview. Every time Connor McDavid has a sit-down interview, I do find him compelling in a way that a lot of hockey players are too guarded to be.

I found him like very open. Purposeful. And yes. And like he even, Kyle even asked him about like, well, do you find, time to be happy. He's like, actually, I am happy all the time. I just, I think he basically acknowledges it what I was saying it, that I have a bit of a resting sad face. Did he say, yeah, no, I'm very happy. No, no, he was actually like, yeah, no, but what was, what was interesting, was he said, I want to be coached. There are details in my game and Fridge rightly followed up and said,

well, which ones? And he wouldn't say, but he, he, he said, you know, getting back to a system where when the offense dries up, we've got something as a baseline. And I, and I, and I think a lot of people, and I'm going to read it this way too, are feeling a little bit like maybe with Chris Knoblock in charge over there, they went a little too loosey and Connor, what do you want to do?

As opposed to what? Well, I think that the reason that they want to go back, essentially back to school, back to having a yestrial sergeant type coach is because I don't know that as a player you want to coach to.

No, of course. And I think that's what he's saying. is like I need somebody who can who can push me not somebody I can sort of push around and that's maybe the wrong way to describe their relationship but let's talk about power dynamics for a second who had more power in the oilers organization uh was it chris noblock or connor macdavid uh i'm gonna go with connor right and so babs was kind of like i don't have to be here so if i'm coming in this is what it's going to be and people have paid me not to coach and i was happy yeah twice I'm good with it.

Yeah. I have millions and millions of dollars. I'm fine with this. And elk. And elk. So I was curious about that quote and how that lands to you guys, maybe not having heard it. For a guy like that to say, I want to be coached, I think that says something about where the oilers were last year. I really do.

And I do think, too, it's worth mentioning. They had gone to two straight Stanley Cup finals. And every team that plays that much hockey is due for a regression at some point. This is not a criticism of Connor McDavid. I want to be very clear with that. I sometimes wonder how difficult it is to be his teammate. I'm sure it be very difficult. Because what do we all say about the Edminton Oilers?

They should have a cop. Yeah, yeah. They should have one or they should win one. They should have already won one and they should win one now. Yeah. Right? Yep. And the reason they haven't done that is because,

the rest of the team has not been good enough. And I think some of these guys are probably smart enough to be like, oh, I'm rest of the team. Oh, I don't like that at all. And I'm sure, like, I'm not, I'm not saying he's a jerk or like hard to get along with or or difficult to play with. But that is, there's an odd pressure to being the guy whose main job is to just not screw up Connor McDavid's legacy. If that makes sense.

Do you understand what I'm saying? Well, I think perhaps that's why Babs is perfect for this because he's got an ego the size of Manhattan and will probably not worry about something like that. Well, as a coach, right? McDavid wants to be coached, but like the impression I'm getting is the rest of the team needs to be coached. Oh, he said the system thing.

Yes, absolutely. The rest of the team needs. to be better. I need some help from you guys and I need you playing a system I can understand and is that not the subtext? You know what I mean? Take it right now. But like it's it's a miracle that this didn't happen sooner. Because is that like I know it's the Stanley Cup final. I know emotions are are high and intense and that's where that comes from. But like you you are great for this Adam because sometimes I go to 10 and you go Stephen I've never seen that there's nowhere to go after that though and sometimes like you got to pick your spots to go 10 and that was obviously the spot

to do it for Connor but there's nowhere to go from there there's nowhere to go after 10 and he went to 10 two years ago and two Stanley like a final defeats ago right this is why they're so desperate this is why they're doing the most oilery stuff ever where we're like, oh, I bet they're going to get this guy to coach and they're going to sign this guy. They're so desperate. There's an enormous, we talk about pressure in different markets. Is that not the most pressure cooker situation in the NHL? Who has more pressure on them to win than the Edmonton Oilers? Who? And I'll tell you you're wrong. I don't, I think you're right. I think you're right. Minnesota is in the conversation.

I'm not saying it to be a jerk. Edmondson's a good top of the list. I hadn't thought of it that way. It's absolutely that. They have one mission in life. Like, I saw a chirp about dry saddle because he got interviewed yesterday through having that captain skate

and someone just goes, he already looks miserable. You know why? That's how he plays. Shit isn't funny. It's like when Kyle Lowry was angry, we're like good. Yeah. Great.

Grilled. No, okay, you can show up Lucy Goosey and talk about your summer. I'm trying to fucking kill you. I'm Leon Drysad. That's how you should want Leon Dry Saddle to play. Right? They're just, the challenge for them is maintaining that for 84 games and then two months of playoff hockey.

Jess, I got a question for you. Oilers start and they're on fire. out of 10, how surprised will you be? And 10 being super surprised. They're getting into the territory where it's leaps from all those years, where it's what you do in the playoffs, what matters. Yeah. But they can coast through the regular season,

like we saw those years when they went to the cup finals and just run through the playoffs and everything's fine. Just 84 meaningless game? Yeah, because that's what it's about. It's about getting a Stanley Cup, right? So I assume they're going to have a good regular season, whether they're a president's trophy or second of the division or third wherever it is and then it's about turning it on for the playoffs and i think connor mac david knows so but let me then let me ask you this as a follow-up to that the last three or four years they've started poorly so let's say they start poorly again how shocked out of ten will you be none none shocked so you're whether they're hot or they're cold you're going to be like yeah it's really doesn't matter it's because those one of that one year where they were like the worst team in all right October in history.

You got pumped by the sharks. And then we're the greatest team of all time from like late November through end of January. Like they can do that. So either way they go, it's either going to be, okay, Babcock's figured something out early on or there's just a learning curve with Babcock in his new system. Maybe if they just keep staying bad, then I'm going to really be shocked. But I'm going to give this team some time here.

Because I think if things start bad for the first couple months, then we're talking about like, okay, let's fire Babcock. It brings in somebody else. And then we're the most interesting team of all time. If this team is bad and they're struggling, because that's just impossible for this player who's so great. But I don't know. If they're struggling and then they turn it on,

that's kind of what they should do. If they're really good, that's what they should be. I have to bring up the Leafs in this context because of the last team Babcock coached. What about Columbine? Never coached them. That, his first season with the Leafs, oh no, I'm wrong.

because his first season with the Leaves was the year where they finished last. But it was on purpose. Mission accomplished. The Matthews Leaves, though, in his second year, were real slow out of the gate. People forgot. I want to say they won like two games in October. Yeah, but that's a last place team. A bunch of overtime losses.

Right? Yeah, but then they made the playoffs. Yes. But I mean, like at that first 12 games or whatever, you're struggling. Everyone's like, oh, that's last place team. So there's no overreaction there. Right. Yeah.

I guess what I'm just saying is like we've, seen a learning curve. Totally. Yeah, and I think there will be that if they're slow, and if they're not, they know, more proud to. And they don't have goaltending. They do not. Which you need a little bit. Yeah, what if like,

oh, this is greatest offensive team of all time, greatest defensive team all the time, and they just don't get saves. I'm excited for... Way to go, Stan Bowman. Eight and three with a 932 Tristan Jari in October, because hockey's silly. Yeah. I want to ask you guys about this.

What will Rick Talkett speak about to the media now that Matt Bay Mitchcoff has lost 30 pounds? He'll talk about how his paycheck's fat. Because Matt Bay Mitchkoff has lost 30 pounds. And he actually talked about it in a Russian interview. And it's actually a fascinating clip. And it's making the rounds on social media. But what I thought was interesting is they flew in. The flyers were like, listen, you should probably stay here.

And he's like, no, no, no, I'm going to go home. I'm going to lose the weight. And he did. Because a lot of guys fail when they do that. He did. And Florida or sorry, Philadelphia sent out their strength and conditioning guys to be like, hey, man, just checking in. And he did lose it. And he looks completely different than he did walking in the camp last year.

30 pounds in a summer, I guess in your early 20s is doable. That's crazy, though. Your body is made up of lots of different things, though. And losing 30 pounds is not, that doesn't mean he's going to be better at hockey. So that's what I was going to ask you. I mean, but that was, they're saying his conditioning was the problem, right? Last year, that was the main thing. He has been working out all summer.

There's a reason these are coming out because he wants, he wants to send the word out. I'm actually in shape and I'm ready to go. I have news for you that I'm going to tell you as a doughy dad with a podcast. You do not lose 30 pounds in like a couple months by working out. Well, as a 22-year-old, you might. No. No? I think I might disagree with you on that one.

Abs are made in the kitchen. Okay. Well, maybe he changed his eating that. Why I don't have them. Yeah, well, I'm just, I love food. I love food. Always have freaking love. And you don't want to crush sweet potatoes 24 hours a day.

I get it. It's brutal. Yeah. It's brutal. I hate it. I used to work with a really jack guy at the zoo. I used to work at the zoo. And I was like, hey, man, like, how do you get jacked?

Like, because I love to snack. He's like, oh, man, I just love munching on baby carrots. That was his advice to me. And I was like, cool. I guess I'll just never be that. And I'm okay with it? I'm okay with that. That was sort of when I started to let go.

I was like, oh. I don't think this is for me. Oh. Yeah. So you're saying eat baby carrots like their Doritos. Yep. Okay. No, I'll just be this.

That's fine. Right. Okay. But yeah, again, with Mavévichkov, I still think it was ridiculous that people ever stopped believing in him. He's got the talent. Oh, he's going to be. a boss or whatever.

And like I believed all the stuff last year with with his conditioning. I do think he's going to have a bounce back season. But let's let's be careful with the numbers. Jesse, would you draft him? Would you use a draft pick on him in fantasy? Or do you wait and try to pick him up on waivers because a lot of people will be scared off with last season? I used a very high round pick on him and it almost crushed my season.

And it was Badaard that ended up crushing my season. Last year, Mischoff had 20 goals, 31 assists, 51 points, year before, 26, 37, 63. That's still so good. His time on ice went down like almost two full minutes as well. Wow. Yeah, he can't really play somebody who can't really keep up with their cardio. That's your sucking win for Mischoff. And you might be like, what does the ice time matter?

well, he took almost 40 fewer shots. Yeah. He probably didn't take enough shots a year before. Yeah. No, I think Matt Faye, I think Matt Faye is going to live up to the expectations that Flyers fans have of him. Like, this is still a young guy, and I feel like he's motivated. Like, I think vibes are high with the Flyers coming into this season after going to the second round. Like, don't forget that.

This is a second round team coming into this year. They finally get over that playoff hump. And Mishkov is going to be motivated to have a. really good season. So I can see him surprising the rest of the hockey world and living up to Flyers fans' expectations. Yeah. I think it's important. I think it's important for the organization. Like if you're pleased with him, I'm not saying you hand anything to anybody, but you should reward him. Yeah. Like you should like, all right, you're PP1 to start the season. Here's your cookies. Like, is he, who you, who you kicking off? Is it going to be a problem? I

highly doubt it. It's Matt Faye Mitch Cove. Get him as cookies. Get everyone feeling good about themselves. I think he's going to be great for the Flyers and I see them making the playoffs again. I think I'm excited for the Flyers year. Like I do think as much as Joe Wall was not ready to go enough in Toronto when he is, he'll be a great backup guy. He's going to be a great 30 game, 35 game guy. Dan Vladar was one of the best goals he's in the league last year. Yeah. I think there's a lot of excitement. Apparently they checked in on Dylan Larkin and were told no. But like you could tell they're extremely aggressive. You look at the Leo Carlson thing that happened this summer. The Flyers, to me, are the team, the team in the league with the antsiest pants.

If you, if you were going to have your ants in your pants to somebody in the league, it's the Philadelphia Flyers, they want that top line center bad. Every time there's a player who's rumored to be in a trade, flyers are in. You should throw the flyers in there. Yes. If you're not throwing them in there, unless it's Connor Hellebuck, which I think they're, they're not going to do that. I don't know.

I mean, maybe, but I don't think they're going to. No, they're not. But I think they want a top line center real bad. It's very clear. And you know, the thing is, like last year, if we had started the season and been like, yeah, Dylan Larkin's going to ask for trade, Quinn Hughes is going to ask for trade, we would have said to ourselves, you're insane, that's not happening. Stuff happens fast. But it happens fast, especially teams that get out slow.

So I'm fascinated to see what the flyers can do. And here's the thing. They've got the capital and the prospects to do it. And then a full season of Porter Martone, too. And their big ad on D? That would be David, your check. Simone Benoit, how dare you? Oh, okay. That's right. He's on that team. So is Grubankin. You ever have a player who you know is not that good, but you miss him?

Grubankan. Simone Benwa? Both. Yeah. Both literally both guys. They're good guys. I all three former leaves on the flyers. I'm like, oh, but I like you. Wurbenkin and Benwa. Yes. All guys that are likable guys. Yes. Good people. Who else? Nola Chari. Nolach is a flyer? Is no La Chari a flyer? Fourth line right here. And who he play for. I also like him. I did like him too.

There he is. The cookie man. Oh, no, I really liked him. What are your feelings on Nick Seeler? Not a form relief, don't care. Oh, okay. Rasmus Ristoline in. Hey, man.

Bobby Bump is right there. Hey, him. Bobby Bump is what we want to talk about. Cool name, like him. Tyson Forrester? Cool name, like him. Oh, nice. Travis Kineckney?

Cool name like him. He's a psycho. Like him. TikTok star Trevor Zegris I'm going to go I'm going to go You don't like Trevor Zegris I like Trevor Zegris?

Beat Canada at the world juniors Don't like him Oh wow Don't like him Fair enough I think he Oh and Tippett He's really zoomy

Like him Hey is this the Eurasmistress Align and finally gets traded Because every year of this Five Year deal He has almost been traded Depends Or do they actually

Resign him And then we do this again When is Detroit Name their new GM That's a good question. I don't know. Oh, Zach Aston Reese. Is he playing for a Lever?

I also liked him. No way. He's also in their system. Wow. There you go. Carl Grunstrom. Carl Grunstrom. I like that guy.

Lotta X Leafs. Look at that. Well, it worked out so well for the Leafs. Might as well copy it. They really did corner the market on marginal former Leafs who I like for no discernible reason. I mean, that's good. So did Ed. But they also had Zach Hyman and Kisbury Kappen has worked out pretty damn well.

No, Hyman's not marginal. Well, I know. You're not doing it right. Oh, they are the bunting team. So that they can complete. Wow. The Leafs. Jesse Blake.

Guys, no, you're right. How does their left wing look? Their left wing is Tippett Forrester Barkie bump. Oh, he might. Forrester can play the right side. Does he need to, though? Who are you pushing away? I think they have too many.

guys for bunting and this is why bunting doesn't have a team. Yeah. Right now. No, like if you scratch Nolachari, which I think could be fine, like then you move one of the left guys to the right side and then bunting's in there. We just talk about how expensive Nolachari is. 2.8 million at 34 with the season he had. No, I like him. I like him too, but like, whoa. Two years. That's the, that's the victory. Yeah. For him. All the injury. I will always root for Nolichari. Man, that's a young team, eh? It is. They're younger than I even realized. Yep. Yep. They're going to be a problem.

Kevin Fiala. Well, did have another surgery to help him with the first one he had post-Olympics. There is no timeline for his return. Well, was it femur? I think so. Or was it to be a fibia? Yeah, it was a big bone in your leg. That sucks.

Yeah. Yeah, which means maybe it didn't set properly. I don't know. And that sucks, and that sounds painful. Really nice tribute to Barry Melrose from Lil Wayne of all people. Lil Wayne tweeted this yesterday, just saw the news about the legend Barry Melrose. And I literally can't stop the F in tears right now. And I be damn if I try to.

I'm the worst. You're worth them all, sir. Yeah, you're worth them all, sir. May you rest peacefully and may God bless your family and friends. Your memories forever. Bucci, Levy, Miss Linda, my condolences. He's a way, apparently little Wayne grew up big sports center guy. and was a bigger hockey guy than people realized.

I had no idea. And yeah, I just thought that was kind of neat. Like, of all the tributes for Barry Melrose, that was not the one I expected. And from everything we've heard about Barry Melrose, I didn't mean him. Did you mean him? You ever mean?

No. I've heard he was just a very bit of a stoic guy, but a big Teddy Baron really cared about people. And everybody, the outpouring for him afterwards was really telling about that. Yeah, like he was a bombastic sports guy. And sometimes he had takes, not everyone loved. but by all accounts,

like anyone who met him seemed to love him. One of those great teammates. So I just thought that was really cool. Crazy flow. It's crazy for a guy that was born in Saskatchewan. Yeah. Remote Saskatchewan to become the voice of American hockey on ESPN. Like what a run he had there calling all those games.

And just, yeah, the outpouring, like you said, everybody loved him. No bad stories. Just a bunch of great tributes. Gregor Sinski did a really good one on ESPN. Go check it out. He was also hired to coach the Los Angeles Kings in the 92-93 season, took them all the way to the Stanley Cup final.

That guy coached Kretsky. At 35, he coached Kretzky. Wow. That's crazy. I didn't realize he was that young. Now, Greg Wichinsky, speaking of, Mr. Wichenski, had a really interesting article about the Atlanta expansion process. And so Anson Carter, I didn't realize this.

Obviously, Anson is a TNT analyst, but he's been one of the guys really trying to get hockey back to Atlanta. And he was a part of the Alpharetta group, which I believe is a guy that owns a bunch of car dealerships. But he is now not from that. So Bill Daly said, Anson still has an interest in having a franchise in Atlanta. He's kind of broken with the Alpharetta group, which he was championing before. He has indicated he has adequate financing, which, he showed some evidence of, but he hasn't chosen a location, said daily, as in like where the arena is going to be. And he said he's committed. It's going to be a better location. This is

Anson specifically, better than what Alpharetta or the other group, The Gathering, are. Now, Vernon Krause, maybe Kraus was the car dealership. I think maybe it was him. I apologize. Unfortunately, Vernon Krause had that thing. Remember they released during August, that packet of information and we've successfully submitted a packet of information to the NHL. That was one of the August reports that got buried. Bill Daly was furious about that, which means Gary Bettman was furious about that. Vernon Krause of Krause Sports said, unfortunately, information shared during a recent community update and subsequently distributed by email was premature and incomplete,

leading to inaccurate statements on social media. Bill Daley said they claimed that people associated with their efforts and initiative got over their skis a little bit. They received an angry call for me when it was all coming down and I didn't know anything about it. And that's the thing with the NHL. They do not like when you do something without their approval. This is what it's like working in the NHL. You don't like it was like, you know, when James Dolan put out that crazy statement about Gary Batman got the big fine, the NHL does not like surprises. They don't do well with them. The first thing I thought of was Jim Ballsley basically trying to bully the penguins into Hamilton. Remember he held up the

Blackberry with the penguin on it, the logo on it? And Betman was like, who the hell do you think you are? Yeah, I don't care how rich you are. You're not getting a team. Yep. Interestingly, so Greg says, this would be the third time in NHL has put a team in Atlanta. The flames relocated to Calgary in 1980, the thrashers to Winnipeg in 2011. And Daley said there is potential for a third time to be a charm, but he says, quote,

a full market analysis in the Atlanta region is going to be important. certainly it would be important for our ownership to understand why it would be different this time than it's been in the past, which is ultimately what people are saying on Twitter all the time, which is like, okay, but it didn't work the first two times. Daley said, I would argue that Atlanta has changed dramatically and significantly over time. And I think the building location is going to be very, very important. Now, I don't remember a whole ton about the thrashers back in the day, but I believe their building was just in the worst area for it. Well, so I don't know enough about that. I've never been to Atlanta,

but it is valid that they sucked. They were very, very bad. Yeah. Are the Vegas Golden Knights as biggest success as they are if they suck? I don't know. We'll never know because they've been great. Right. Since they showed up.

How many times they missed the playoffs? Once? They're great. And it was only by a few points, by the way, too. Yeah. They were right in there to the end. Thrashers, I believe, I want to say, say made the playoffs once, maybe twice. I want to say they won the division and then were

swept. One playoff birth. One playoff birth. Yeah. No playoff wins. In franchise. Yeah, they got swept by the Rangers in 06, 07. Sean Avery made Ilya Kolanchuk, poop his pants. And yeah. Yeah, you're a franchise from 99 to 2011, zero playoff wins, one playoff birth. That's not how you build a successful franchise. That's why the NHL changed the rules to make these teams more successful early on. Or the expansion draft rules are better for the expansion teams. Yeah. And like, don't think that the NHL doesn't think that that was a factor here.

Oh, yeah. Like, they lost this team and have been sniffing around Atlanta ever since they left. Right? Do you think their problem was with Atlanta necessarily? Like, I'm sure there were problems. Totally. With the arena and where it is. whatever, they stunk.

Yeah. They can't have that happen again. Seattle. They can't. Seattle? Seattle? Seattle? Seattle?

They can't have that happen again? Not Seattle. Wow. And like, I'm sure that market's healthy, but the team stinks. On the Texas expansion, in June, the NHL entered into an agreement, I'd forgotten about this with the Friedkin family, giving them six months to explore expansion in one of Houston or Austin. The agreed investment for the Freedkins is three point. $1.5 billion, which includes the expansion fee, as well as the building costs for an

NHL arena. And I would imagine that the building cost of the arena is the $2 billion of that, because the rumor, and Alan actually has talked about this a few times, is that it's $1.5 billion just for the fee. Jeez. The Texas group reportedly hopes to have a team ready for the 2029-30 NHL season. Daley said there will be an update on Texas expansion process at the Board of Governors' Meeting September 22nd in New York. and it's interesting.

I'm curious about this, and Greg mentions it. Houston is the sixth largest television market in the U.S., but has several professional sports teams. Austin appeals to the NHL demographically as a hub for tech companies and as a city where the league would be the first professional league in market kind of like Vegas. It seems to me, like I know, it seems to be like for the NHL TV deal, the same reason they're going to go back to Arizona eventually. It would still make sense that Houston would be the market.

market, right? How do you have, how do you not put it in Houston? As much as the demographics of Austin might appeal better, the potential of Houston, I think, is huge. Obviously, the potential of Houston is huge, but what I was thinking is the NHL with Vegas has had tremendous success being first. You know what I mean? But Vegas is bigger than Austin. I don't know enough about it. It's Vegas also. Yeah. And I know Austin's Austin and I know it's like, I keep Austin weird and they got the big racetrack and all that. But like Houston is in enormous city. And if you're looking for,

if you're looking for stuff like closer to the Mexican border as well, obviously you've got that as well. And that's a big push for the NHL, especially in the southwest. Of course. Latino fans, you know, that's why they're, you know, Mexico's name is eventually going to happen, right?

Like they keep saying Mexico City one day. I don't know. It just, it seems odd to me that Austin's even. in this when you've got a city of the size of Houston there. But having not spent all the time in both of those places, you know, I'm admitting fully that there's lots, I don't know. And for context,

Austin is the number 34 TV market in America. Vegas is 40. So Austin is bigger. Oh, it is bigger. Okay. A Vegas there. Okay. And Houston's six, you said?

Yeah, Houston's like a top five. Look how high up Hartford and New Haven is. Houston's six. You could do three. Is that important to you? Eventually. The NFL's going to 40 teams eventually. You can do three teams in Texas.

I know some people really don't like that. But like when you said Mexico, like you saw me smile. Yeah, I think it would be amazing. That's exciting. Oh my God, yeah. More hockey is exciting to me. And like, you know,

people talk about like the product getting watered down. I have some news for you. Hockey getting watered down, quote unquote, by expansion has given birth to the grand. greatest players of all time. You own jerseys belonging to byproducts of hockey being worn, watered down. Would Bobby Orr have, what was it, 900 points in 600 games or something stupid like that? If the league did not literally double in size when he was entering his prime?

Wayne Gretzky. Mario Lemieux. All those guys. Oh, but people would say, well, they all came from like Ontario and Quebec. But if you look at a guy like Austin Matthews. Yeah, and feasted on guys who a few years prior would have been playing in the minors because there were fewer teams. The league went from 6 to 12, skirted slowly up to 17 and then ballooned to 21.

Yep. In one year. I don't know. Like, I don't think the product will be watered down. I think there's enough good players to have good highlights from everywhere. There's enough good players. I don't know. I've always had a hard time

looking at more hockey is a bad thing. Jesse always makes the point and I think he's 100% right is that in football you've got 30 NFL teams. In basketball, is it 31 American NBA teams? No, 29.

29. The NHL has 23 markets in the States right now. So already there's room for at least seven. 25. Okay, 25. There's still room for five more, at least. And there's still room for five more, at least.

32 NFL teams. There's 32. Okay. Well, there you go. So that in my point stands, just in the wrong way. I've never really thought of it that way. I've never really thought of it that way. Jesse, Jesse's the one.

I'm not the one that came up with that. But Canada's throwing off the equation. I never really realized that. Right? Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot more markets that the NHL isn't in, that the other sports are. You throw baseball in there. They have 29 American markets.

And the NHL is just not in as many. So there's room to expand in comparison to those other leagues. I think the player base is there. So like I've been looking at it like 32. That's the biggest number. So it's the biggest league. But no, it's it with regard to the United States. It's by far the smallest.

Yes. By far. I never really thought of it that way. Yeah. Well, you should have thought about it the last couple of times we brought it up. Probably should have. And I think hockey, because it's such an international sport, that the player base is there unlike, say, American football.

where you're not taking from as many different countries around the world. Hockey, like, it's a global sport that you can fill out 30, 16. Are there 20 non-American NFL players? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like, where do the majority come from outside of the United States?

Canada's pretty heavy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like, NBA is much more international, right? NBA, yeah. Fun of international, right? Yeah. Like, you could see an NBA Europe, no problem.

You can see in NHL Europe, no problem. And I think that they'll be connected to the leagues eventually. I want to move on to the Leafs here a little bit because we got some complaints, not just about Luke Evangelista, but who? Butcher 705 sent Steve a tweet. Steve didn't even bother to like or reply to this, which, you know, what a pig. Why would? But Butcher made a good point, and I've got an update on this.

Is it just me or is sending our number one prospect, Gavin McKenna, to a tournament where people who want to make a game. a name for themselves are playing, but also probably won't make a team. Maybe not the best idea. Seems like an unnecessary risk. Okay? Uh-huh. Now, what we have just found out is that the Leafs will not be sending him.

Oh. Lance Hornby and all the other Leaf reporters who are at rookie camp today. McKenna will not play at the Prospects tournament management has decided. We'll just practice. They want him, according to Mark Masters, rested for what's ahead. Interesting. And I think, I think Butcher's right. I wouldn't have had a problem with him going.

No, but I also, like, you can't wrap a first overall pick also has to play. You can't wrap them in bubble wrap, but you're employing him to play in an 84 game season full contact league. And you remember Matt Nyes's first year and he was so good. Remember he only had 35 points? Because conditioning was supposedly a concern and not necessarily because he was out of shape. but it's a transition to go from the college schedule, which has far fewer games to the NHL schedule. Right.

The hockey's harder. Because they're playing weekends, right, at college, right? Where they're not playing all week long. The hockey's harder. It's the best league in the world. And you're playing way more games than you're used to. Yeah, save it, kid. And what did David Alter say when he was in here?

Like McKenna's training started kind of late a little bit, right? Like this is arguably going to be the hardest off. season of his career. Yep. Because just because of the whirlwind that happens when you're selected first overall, right? That's not going to happen next year. That's when it's going to be a little easier to take leaps and bounce physically.

I don't think you can, there are situations, right? Like game 82, there's nothing to play for. Dallas throws out Jason Robertson, he gets hurt, and it throws a wrench into their whole playoff run, right? There are times where it's valid to rest your guys, but you're trying to develop this kid. You're trying to see where he's at. Like I would have had absolutely no problem with him playing these games.

Guys, there are players in the WHL trying to make a name for themselves, and he kicked their ass. There are players in the NCAA who are trying to make a name for themselves, and he kicked their ass. And now he's going to go into the NHL where guys are going to get a taste of an NHL paycheck for the first time, and they're not going to want to relinquish that, and they're going to try to make a name for themselves. And ideally, McKenna, the first overall pick, kicks their ass.

You can't bubble wrap hockey players. At some point, you've got to get out there and play. Jesse, barring injuries, how many games do you think, if he's completely healthy, how many games does Gavin McKenna play this year? Because I have a feeling with a rookie like this and an 84-game sketch, Edgewell, maybe you do rest it. No, I think it's all 84 if he's ready to go. If he's ready?

Yeah, yeah. You play him every. You don't just give him time off because for the sake of it. Like, it's not Kauai. I think you're playing Gavin McKenna out there the entire time. If he's capable and he's, if he's not like a fringe player, like he's not a guy you would regularly scratch. I think you just play him.

If he gets healthy scratch, I think people riot. But again, again, people are, they're not understanding he is a teenager. major. That is a boy. Right? Austin Matthew, the reason you love Austin Matthews, and he was such a force of nature in his rookie season is because of how unusual it was. And he played on the third line. Yes.

Austin was playing behind Bozac and Cadre. I hope McKenna scores frigging 40 goals. Me too. That'd be great. I don't expect it. I didn't expect it from Austin. Yeah. You know what the other thing about it would have been ridiculous to expect it.

What's interesting about this organization, too, is that he, He is stepping into, and Austin didn't have this, he's stepping into an organization with three other first overall picks. Uh-huh. John, Austin, Matt's. Oh, right. And so he is the fourth of the, and so those guys are going to be able to give him

and probably have a discussion about many. Wouldn't you, if you're Matt's, and you were, what, was he first overall pick in 1989? 99 or something? 90 was Lindrosse, wasn't it? 91, whatever. it was. I think it's 1980. So, you know, obviously things have changed since then. And the media pressure in Quebec City would be slightly different than today in Toronto with social media. But

Austin stepped in 10 years ago alone. John did it in New York. And there was some, but it was a little bit different. And the islanders were in a much different place and different ownership. I would still lean on those guys if I'm John Shakin, go, what do you think? Because this is a lot. And this guy is going through a far more intense spotlight, I would argue, than any of those guys did. And maybe Austin's close second. But because of where social media is, because the fact that the team had such a precipitous fall last year

and really shouldn't have had the first overall pick, I think Gavin's walking into a quite a big spotlight. I think if Gavin McKenna is a player on your team that helps you win games, you're the Leafs and you have to win a whole bunch of games this season, that you have to just play them. You got a plan. Okay. Also, the prospect tournament thing, it's in Quebec in Gatno and at Slush Puppy Palace

place, I think, in Gatno. So just the not sending him there also just helps with the travel. You don't need to send this guy who's on your NHL roster over to Gatno for a couple days and then come back. So it just makes so much chance not have him there. He doesn't have to cross that damn bridge. Damn bridge into Gatno. Another thing I want to talk about, John Klingberg, former Leaf.

has retired. Oh, I thought you were going to say he signed somewhere. No, he didn't. He retired this morning, and he had a pretty damn good career. And, you know, people forget during COVID, and it's unfortunate that this season was lost. That Dallas team did not score a lot of goals. And a lot of that offense went through him. And I remember he was in line to sign a massive deal, but it just never materialized.

700 games between 2014 and 2026, 92 goals, 443 points, 34 years old. He had the same resurfacing. surgery that Patrick Kane had, that apparently Jonathan Huberto is having or has had. I don't know whether he's had it or he has. I think had it. You better have had it. Yeah. I think had it.

And he got a couple, two, three more years out of it, which is great. John Klingbird at his best looked like he was going to the Hall of Fame. That's going to sound wild. I don't think you're far off. I don't think he was one of the better offensive defensemen of his generation. Like, I think he would. If you go to the Hall of Fame website, if you score over a certain amount of points, they list you as like a potential candidate for consideration.

I think he would have been in there. From 2014, from 2014 to 2022, he didn't have a season where he had less than 30 points and only two where it was less than 40. Man. And that was a, you know what, we don't talk about enough? There were two dead puck years. Yes. Yes.

We don't talk about that nearly enough. I say from about 1997 to 2004, lockout happens. They come back from the lockout scoring spikes, and it just dropped off, dropped off, until scoring per game was roughly the same as the dead puck era for like a decade. And he was scoring. He was. He was, dude, the 2010 stunk. Well, Jamie Ben's year.

What is he, 83 points? It was like 86. Four. Yeah. Jesse and I, when we saw the trophies, we were like, ah, there's Jamie Ben. We saw the trophies in Buffalo for the second part of the draft. Yeah. Hockey's having a real, like, what's all the?

The product was poo. And then it became less poo. Like, that's one of the things, like, it really puts Ovechkin into context. Yeah. If you look at just the gap, forget the gap between him and Gretzky, which is now getting bigger and bigger. The gap between him and the next closest goal scorer of his generation,

what a freak. Yeah. Wouldn't absolute freak? No one was scoring. Yep. And he's like, cool, here's 50 a season. What? Yeah.

Nuts. Crazy. I'm always going to feel bad for John Klingberg for turning down the seven years. Yeah. Eight times eight. Eight. No, it was eight years, seven million dollars. Oh, bad enough.

Yeah, eight years seven million dollars. Jeff Merrick had reported it way back in 2022. And that was 56 million dollars that he didn't make back. You ever just blow 50 mil? That sucks. He made a little bit. Because he ends up signing one year, Anaheim, seven million, the four million last year with the sharks. And then, like, what was it, like one or something with the Leafs?

You know, so he made bad, he made, he probably lost like 45 million, 40 million if he just signs that deal. But I guess lucky for the sharks or lucky for the stars, his body couldn't hold up to that contract. And they would have been paying that out. But I feel really bad for him in that circumstance. I wonder if it keeps them up at night. You know the other guy? Cody Franzen turned down a five year, $25 million contract with the Leafs. Oh, no.

And then when the music stopped in free agency, because they were holding out for that number. or a higher number, he ended up in Buffalo on like a two year or a one year, Steve? It was like a $4 million. I want to say two. It was rough.

And that was at a time where you did not want to end up in Buffalo. You did not end up in Buffalo on purpose. You know what I mean? Yep. You know what I mean?

This is why Lane Hudson did the right thing in taking the money. He did get the money. Because you never know. You don't know. He did get the money. Smart man.

Okay. Well, listen, that I believe is... I'd say he's already had a better career than John Clinton. No. More Canadians fans would agree with you. I agree with me. Andering continues, doesn't.

I agree with me. Lane Hudson. Better than John Klingberg. Wow. No. Does he win the Norris this year? Cleanberg. Yeah.

Does Klingberg win the... No, Lane Hudson. I think Lane Hudson could. Here's the thing with the Norris. It's always like, well, yeah, but you have to have put in like two or three good years before. Because they always make you earn... Like, if the best defenseman in the league... Like Matthew Schaefer could have been a second or a third place guy last year.

I think it's one of the most subjective trophies out there. I agree. That's what I'm saying. It's always like there's a reputational aspect to it. Yeah. You know? That's a good way to put it. The Norris and the, they're making the Selky up.

They're making it up. That is disrespectful to one of my favorite players of all time, Yerry Letting. Don't you dare? Three time winner. I loved Yerry Lennon. And he was, I think, the last winger to win it. Three time winner, not in the Hall of Fame.

I know. What is up with? That's a guy that should be in the Hall of Fame. Well, his number, yeah, his numbers don't stack up. But he was a defensive player. He was voted the best hockey player in the world at something three times, including back to back, not in the hall. I'm mad about that. That feels like a error.

Yerry Letton and raise your hair. I don't like it. Rod Rindamore won it back to back, not in the hall. Adam Fox won his first North trophy in 2021 at the age of 22 years old. So it looks like. Car won his first at 21, 22, at 23 years old. So Shaft's got another half decade before he's really going to win one. Lane Hudson, though, this could be his crowning year.

Lane, where did he finish in voting? Are you just making this up? Last year? Yeah. I can look it up for you. Hockey reference is so good. Yeah, hold on. Let me just scroll, scroll.

Scroll. What is this? This is the, oh, where did William Neelander finished some 45th in Lady Bing voting. I'll tell you that. James Norris Memorial Trophy. Lane Hudson did not receive a vote last year. Oh, no, he finished sixth. Oh, I was about to say, what are we talking about right now?

Jesse, he had three first place votes. Get out of here with, oh, no one voted for him. Yeah, he's in it. I'd say that's no votes because it should have been like, I don't know, 10 first place votes last year. He's in it. So I'd say next year. And more points and more points than Quinn He's in.

used last year in Norris Trophy voting when he was finished seventh. Lane Hudson finished six. I think this year, it says. Schaefer getting like in it 12th is,

that proves my point. Not getting a first second or third point. That proves my point. It's a reputational award. Okay. I know he's a leaf now and this will be the last thing I ever say about him negatively.

Darren Radish! Had more Norris vote Matthew Schaefer fired all of you. Fired all of you. That's absurd. What are we doing with our lives? I'm glad for Eric Carlson that he had to come back year last year, but him being ninth is offensive. We got to look up to see if that's a Pittsburgh writer who gave him a third place vote.

I know his name. I know who it was. No. Yeah. I know. No, it's not him. It's the other guy who's like, who like, you know who it is. Oh, yeah.

Eric Carlson, third place in Norrisville last year. I know who it is. We can easily just fact check. I know we can. Listen. In the world? Do they release those ones, right? Third in the world?

Hockey writers. Yeah. Norris, I believe, is writer. I want to know if I'm right, because I got a name. Okay, you got to give me a second. And it's not the name that you think that it is. But I think you now know the name. And I'm not going to say, if you're right, I'm just going to go. Okay.

Interesting. You guys got a filibuster while I look up. We can filibuster. We've been known to do that. We've been fill and buster. Voting. What? I don't know if I should have said that.

But anyway, the, the, I think the Norris trophy, I think what we need to do with the Norris trophy, honestly, is redefined what we're asking for.

The PDF. Because the Selke is defensive forward. Yes. The Norris is oftentimes offensive defensemen. Yes. And I feel like we need a defensive defenseman award. We need the surge Savard award.

We need the, who's the best defensive defenseman of all. I don't know. Somebody who just shut. shut people down. Okay, so here's what you can't do. The Nick Holmerson Award. I got it.

You guys want to continue our conversation? Yeah, no, Steve, no, finish your sentence. Yeah, finish your sentence. Okay, so before the, if I have this correct, before the Vezna, there was the Jennings? Or before the Jennings, there was the Vesnes. Well, the Jennings does, it does exist, doesn't it? It does exist, but what they basically did is that was,

I want to say that was Goalie of the Year. and then they went, no, the Vesna is goalie of the year now. The Jennings is for goalie or tandem that allowed the fewest goals. Right. Why did you do that? I think it makes sense to do that. Because goalie of the year is not necessarily going to be the one that less, the least amount of goals is.

Yeah, but you could have just left it the Jennings. Well, I think they probably wanted Vezna's name to be front and center too, right? Like he was a legend. Okay. Because like what people are saying is, oh yeah, you should have an award for offensive defensemen and call it the Bobby Orr. No. That's going to completely screw up the entire history of the Norris. I think you're correct.

They should have a defensive defenseman award. Anyway, Jesse. Adam, who is it? Just tell me the name. Just tell me. Tell me the name from the athletic. No. Josh Yogi.

I didn't think it was going to be him. Oh, really? Yeah. I thought that's where you're going. No, I thought it was... That's 100% where I was... I mean... Who was the guy?

I thought it was Seth... What is it, Seth? You know what I'm talking about? Rorbaugh? Yeah, I thought it was Seth Rorbaugh. I didn't think it was Josh. I thought you're doing Josh Yohe from the athletic voted Eric Carlson third...

Listen, Eric had a great year. Third best defenseman I disagree with. No. Flat out, I just do. And you thought it was Seth Rorbaugh. Yeah, because Seth... Who voted Werenskiy McCarr-Bucharp. Now, I really like the Bouchard pick.

I obviously Rorinski was going to win it. It's a lot more justifiable than friggin. Yeah, I like the Bouchard pick. I think that's... 26 Eric Carlson. Okay, interesting. Wow. I was surprised.

I thought that's what you're... I know, I wasn't. I wasn't. I wasn't. You didn't get a Norris for being better than everyone thought you were going to. Eric Carlson deserved votes. Be clear on that. To be clear on that.

Yeah, sure. I don't think there's any world where Eric Carlson is the third best defense of the league last year, which is why one guy voted him. The only one who actually had it correct was Wayne Fish of Allentown Morning Call. Hell yeah. Lane Hudson number one in his ballot. Did he really? Yeah.

Shut out Wayne Fish. Wayne Fish, everybody. How didn't even know who that is? Where is Allentown? Allentown morning call. I have no idea. Where is? Ask Bush.

Stop. Pennsylvania. Sorry. He's a Pennsylvania. Alentown, Pennsylvania. All right. Okay, there you go. How do I know that name?

Part of the Lehigh Valley region. Home of the Phantoms. That's right. Or former home of the phantom. I don't know if you're watching Reacher this year, but they mention a whole bunch of flyers and somebody's wearing a Lehigh Valley Phantom's t-shirt in it. Has Jack Reacher kills people.

It's crazy. The Steve Dangle podcast. Follow the guys on Twitter. At Steve underscore Dangle at Adam W-Y-L-D-E. and at Jesse Blake. Connection complete.