The Steve Dangle Podcast - Overthinking | October 9, 2026

Episode Date: October 9, 2026

On this episode of The Steve Dangle Podcast, 00:00 Donate to Rachel's Raiders: Steve's Page: https://eastersealsontario.akaraisin.com/ui/lindros2026/p/bfb0ce3480384dc595c3c0e31bcff37c Adam's Page: https://eastersealsontario.akaraisin.com/ui/lindros2026/p/48d9488219284aaea7a50dae0b0e97ae Jesse's Page: https://eastersealsontario.akaraisin.com/ui/lindros2026/p/19af03cda5ed4aaf815b45db64266556 05:00 Leafs blow lead to Vegas 1:04:00 Hellebucks.com 1:18:00 Evan Bouchard for Hart, Norris, Rocket, Art Ross, Calder, Vezina, Jack Adams 1:32:00 The Flyers are so bad 1:45:00 Cassie Campbell-Pascall joins to talk about her new book Just a Girl, available everywhere now Visit this episodes sponsors: Tims new NHL Hockey Cards are available for a limited time at participating Tim Hortons locations across Canada, while supplies last! Visit TimHortons.ca/Hockeycards for more information and to checkout the 2026 Collection! Watch all episodes of The Steve Dangle Podcast here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLk7FZfwCEidkgWpSiHVkYT7HrIzLPXlY Watch clips of The Steve Dangle podcast here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLk7FZfwCEieOJuIrqWyZPWSIJtVMCbLz Buy SDP merch https://sdpnshop.ca/ Visit https://sdpn.ca/schedule to see when our next live stream airs! Check out https://sdpn.ca/events to see The Steve Dangle Podcast live! Watch hockey with us! Live on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLk7FZfwCEifCTX0vkKEaGg9otrW4Zl2k Subscribe to the sdpn YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@sdpn?sub_confirmation=1Join Subscribe to SDP VIP!: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0a0z05HiddEn7k6OGnDprg/join Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/thestevedanglepodcast Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sdpvip/subscribe - Follow us on Twitter: @Steve_Dangle, @AdamWylde, & @JesseBlake Follow us on Instagram: @SteveDangle, @AdamWylde, & @Jesse.Blake Join us on Discord: https://discord.com/invite/MtTmw9rrz7 For general inquiries email: [e-mail] Reach out to https://www.sdpn.ca/sales to connect with our sales team and discuss the opportunity to integrate your brand within our content! Watch all episodes of The Steve Dangle Podcast here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLk7FZfwCEidkgWpSiHVkYT7HrIzLPXlY Watch clips of The Steve Dangle podcast here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLk7FZfwCEieOJuIrqWyZPWSIJtVMCbLz Buy SDP merch https://sdpnshop.ca/ Visit https://sdpn.ca/schedule to see when our next live stream airs! Check out https://sdpn.ca/events to see The Steve Dangle Podcast live! Watch hockey with us! Live on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLk7FZfwCEifCTX0vkKEaGg9otrW4Zl2k Subscribe to the sdpn YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@sdpn?sub_confirmation=1Join Subscribe to SDP VIP!: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0a0z05HiddEn7k6OGnDprg/join Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/thestevedanglepodcast Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sdpvip/subscribe - Follow us on Twitter: @Steve_Dangle, @AdamWylde, & @JesseBlake Follow us on Instagram: @SteveDangle, @AdamWylde, & @Jesse.Blake Join us on Discord: https://discord.com/invite/MtTmw9rrz7 For general inquiries email: [e-mail] Reach out to https://www.sdpn.ca/sales to connect with our sales team and discuss the opportunity to integrate your brand within our content! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Guys, I want to get back out on the lake. Well, you do live right on Lake Ontario. Okay, fair point. But I'm thinking I'd like to plan a trip to Kelona in British Columbia. Oh, yes, solid choice. We found a great place on Airbnb near Lakeshore Road. Going to check out the restaurants, the coffee shops, definitely got to visit the wineries. It sounds like the whole trip's built around snacks and drinks.

As it should be. But it got me thinking, while we're out there, our place back home is just, sitting empty. So you're going to list your space on Airbnb while you're gone? Why not? They can come to my neighborhood and live like a local. My favorite Mexican places close by, we've got some amazing parks and waterfront to explore. There's even drop in wreck hockey just down the street. Plus, a little extra cash in your pocket for the next trip. Exactly. It just makes sense. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com.com.com. Big Eddie.

Woo! S. D. Peace. With your host, Steve Dangle, Adam Wild, and Jesse Blake. Let's go!

Easter Seals is almost upon us. Yes. It is not Easter, it involves no Seals, but it is important. And Steve, what do you want to talk about? What is it?

What? We're participating in the Eric Lindrauss Celebrity Hockey Classic. Raising money for Easter Seals. It's a charity that helps our kids with physical disabilities. We talk about it.

Every year, it is a charity that is near and dear of my heart. I want to give you two incentives to donate to Rachel's Raiders. Number one, if you donate to myself or any member of Rachel's Raiders, which includes Jesse and Adam hasn't friggin't signed up yet. I'll sign up. I think I've raised zero dollars. That's okay. Because I just signed up. So if you could help me raise some money, my link is in the description. If you donate any amount to any member of Rachel's Raiders, you are automatically entered into a draw to win two Leafs tickets.

To which game you might ask? Saturday night, November 21st, against the Columbus Blue Jackets, the Matthew Nye's return game. Every... A pretty good game. Yeah, that's a good game. Every year, a very generous donor named Ron Fox donates a pair of Leaf tickets and Ron, you're a godson.

and it is one of the big drivers. So I don't care if you donate $100, $5,000, doesn't matter, you're entered. Number two, I knew the LFR video was uploaded this morning because my email inbox started getting flooded with donations because I get an email every single time we get a donation. Here's what's great about that. You don't got to put your real name. Oh.

And like I could tell you, for example, on Saturday night, I got a donation from Leafs suck. So if you've ever dreamed about saying Leafs suck in an email to Steve Dangle, you can do that by making a donation to Easter Seals. How many people named Rich Marner donated? None yet, but I bet we're about to get bombarded. I hope you get some. Parenthares. I would love a donation from Darren Farris. No, Ferrandaris.

Yeah, Ferranderis, noted Torontonian who loves Toronto so much because it's safe. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So that is it. That is all. We are trying to, listen, we got beat last year. We're always the top fundraisers.

We got beat last year. Yeah, you lost the cup. Lost the cop? The Jerry Coglin Cup. It's not in my room anymore. I'm very sore about it. So I would like to, listen, as a Leaf fan, it was the one thing I could count on year in and year out that we were going to win. And then we lost that too.

And it's about almost exactly one month until the date. So we got four weeks. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's go. That's all. So you can do that right now. And the link is in the description, correct?

Yep. All right, cool. I'll send it to, yeah. Yeah. Yes. The description doesn't exist yet in our reality. That's true. But in the reality that you are hearing it, Hayden has made a description.

Way to go, man. Yeah. Have you friggin signed up yet? I'm going to beat you and Adam up. I'm signing it right now. I hated also. You gotta raise money too. Yeah.

Yeah, you're one of our like best players. Literally. Wait, maybe I should treat them nicer. Hayden, buddy. Like,

yeah. Yeah, anyway, I just signed up. They just signed up what you were doing. Oh, that's what you were doing.

Yeah. I was like, here you go. There you go. Now I'm in. Ha-ha. There you can't say that I didn't sign up

because I did. Ha-ha. He did his homework while the teacher was walking around. That's right. Checking other people's if they did their homework. What is he here? Did you see it?

I'll get the email notification if it goes through. Okay. I don't believe. I don't believe. Okay. Continue. I think you got to, I want to get a golf shirt.

No, no. Let's go through the things that you can get. Oh, yeah. You can get merch on the store. Yeah. Not something they promote enough.

That's neat. Yeah. If you want Eric Lindrae, Celebrity Hockey Classic merch that is available on their website. I have submitted it. I'm ready to rock and roll, baby.

Good. What's your fundraising goal this year, Jesse? A million dollars. A million dollars. Yeah. Same. No, actually. No cap.

Same. What is it? I don't know. I don't know off top of my head. Wow. Oh, okay. I don't think he's signed up. I think he's full of it.

Our team's goal is 50 grand, but I want, I want more than that. Is it? Yeah. Okay. I think we can do it. I think we can do it. All right. Let's talk, leave some golden nights.

Why? Let's talk about the great first period followed by two bad, second periods in a not great overtime. Dude, I'm threading the needle right now. You ever, I think the nightmare scenario is around five and a half, six hours sleep. Because you wake up and you're exhausted. Yeah. I'm cruising on four. I'm fine.

I'm fine. I will crash later, but I'm fine right now. I'm threading the needle. So you're good. So did you enjoy the first 20 minutes of last night's game? Yeah. Jesse, did you enjoy the first 20 minutes of last night's game? Yes.

Then how did you guys find the rest of it? The only solace I can give Lee fans, who I know wanted me to tear a strip off them last. last night is look around the league. Like, I encourage you to watch, you don't have to watch like full out of town games, but just look at what happened. Look at the box scores at very least. No one can defend.

It's awful. Yeah. There are a lot of blowouts. There are a lot of blown leads. Doesn't necessarily excuse what happened last night. That was pretty bad. Well, the way I look at it is this. I, first off, the goals are starting to go in.

Because remember, the first three games, it was like, yeah, they could get like max two or three goals. It does feel like they're getting a little bit of luck that they didn't have in the first few. Not enough luck because we keep hitting crossbars and posts. Still, but like, for example, the Rosavik goal is like, that was awful. I think that was just sneaky, man. I actually give Rosavik a little credit there. I give him a little credit and mostly like Aiden Hill should not have gotten an NHL win last night. Yeah, they mentioned on the broadcast on that goal.

Aiden Hill thought he was in position against the post to stop it. he just made a complete error and didn't know where he was. It'd be better if he was straight up fooled. Exactly. He's like, no, I got this guys. No, you do not. And then it just went by him. It was really bad.

No, you do not. I kind of understand John Tortorella like a half percent more. Yeah. Yes. You still should have tried this man when Carter Hart was flailing and eventually Carter Hart straightened it out and it was all good. But like, I get it. Yeah, and the final game.

which they still lost. Yeah, Aiden Hill's not on top of his game. No, he is not. So, okay. All right. So that goal maybe should not account it. But then Easton Cowan gets a breakaway. You get to breakaway and a breakaway is a breakaway.

You maybe use that guy in the shootout, huh? That was weird that he didn't get used in the shootout. Yeah. Instead of, like, I was like, Tavares. Really? I don't. I know he's got some hands, but Tavaris? Tov...

I was more upset, not with... necessarily the choice of shooters. I was more upset with what they did. Like, I'm going to emphasize again, Hill was awful. Yeah. He made a few good saves down the stretch, but ultimately the Vegas Golden Knights made his job easy. He wasn't good.

Last year, he wasn't good. Your first shooter was Marchenko, and he's like, I'm just going to shoot it. He did. He scored. And no one took anything from that. I don't know why they insist on putting Matthews in the first three in a shootout.

He isn't good. He's never been good in a shootout. No, they, They said the stat. They said the stat on the broadcast. It was like 16 out of 45 something along those lines. That's not good at all. Marchenko's 10 of 17?

No, it's, yeah, it's not very good. I would have gone Marchenko, Neelander, Kowen to start. I think that's what would have been the first three. I think you have to, like, dude, they put, well, Connolly was in there and then he's got great hands. Who was their first shooter? Braden Bowman? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

They got some players, man. You don't know, I know, but like, Brayden Bowman is like a way down the lineup guy for them, but he obviously knows what he's doing in the shootout, and they know that. Cowan beat Hill on a breakaway. Yeah. Use Cowan. Why? No.

No. No. I know Eichl had a penalty shot earlier in the game and he didn't score in the shootout, but I don't know. Go with the percent. Well, I don't know. Well, I only didn't score in the shootout because he lost the handle. He easily could have. It was a nice move.

Three guys lost the handle. That's the whole thing. McKenna looked. I didn't mind McKenna. Steve, I have trivia for you. Sure. All-time leader in shootout goal percentage. Ooh.

So they're the most effective shootout player in the history of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Oh, for the Leafs? Yeah, just Leafs. Minimum six shots. Well, they've taken six career shootout shots. Okay. My gut is telling me Joffrey Lupel. Oh, he is.

Oh. one, two, three, fourth. I think you're asking because this is a bit of a trick. It's a defenseman, isn't it? Underrated pick. Peter Holland. Peter Holland is only 38.5%. Really? We're on the list.

Sorry, what are his stats? He is in his career for the Leafs. He's got four goals on six shots. Four goals on six shots. P.A. Parento. Incorrect. Damn. Pierre Virchow is actually 36.4%.

That's not bad. That's really good. He has four goals on 11 shots. Lupal. It's modern, right? Maybe I'm over thinking. Yes, yours is all time. Since the shootout.

Since the shootout. Yes. JVR. No, no. No, no, wait. On six attempts. I'm an idiot. I'm just going to reveal it. Give it to it.

I think you've guessed enough. Yes, I have. I have. John Mitchell. John Mitchell. Highest career shooting percentage in the shootout for the Toronto Maple. And Mike Sanarelli is. is number three. Jason Spetsa is number two at 62.5%.

Like, I'm sorry, if this list ain't it. Like, don't overthink it. You don't got to put your star player in. The top three guys are John Mitchell, Jason Spetsa, post being a star. Yep. And Mike Santorelli. I think that's the emphasis here. It's just who's good at this.

It doesn't have to be Austin Matthews for the sake of, oh, it's cool that Austin did it. He's the captain. He's our star. No, who's the best that taking shootout? And if it is Austin Matthews, shoot. Yeah. Also that. He was hunting last night.

And like, you can, it's funny, you can tell by Matthews body language in a hockey game that he doesn't respect the goalie that he's playing against. Or not necessarily doesn't respect the goalie, but he's like, no, I can beat this guy. Yeah. And last night in the first period, I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the way he squares his body to the net, I'm like, no, he wants to shoot. shoot, shoot. And then in the shootout, I'm like, if you get your shot, what is any goalie, let alone Aden Hill going to do?

Ah, I don't know. Revisionist, don't blow a 3-0 lead. Austin Matthews is also very close to having the all-time record for most goals in a shootout by a Toronto Maple Leaf. That record is currently held by Tyler Bozac, who has 19 goals on 44 shots, and Austin has 16 goals on 45 shots. So I was going to say, what is the record for misses?

Because he's got to be up there. Perth percentage? Let's see. Phil Kessel. Yeah, Phil was bad. 17.9% is last amongst qualified skaters here. Phil's a shooter. Yeah, but so wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, four goals on 28 shots? He has five goals on 28 shots.

Sorry, four goals on or five. Weird how Willie's down there. Look at it. Five on 28. Like, what does this tell you? These are all guys where, oh, yeah, they got magic hand. No, it's not about that. Amongst qualified skaters in the NHL

record book for shootouts. Willie is fourth last and Leafs history in shootout goal percentage. Wow, I wouldn't have called that. We are grossly over. Like, think of all the money and time and resources that are spent on analytics. Look at this shit. Yeah. Look at this. You're grossly overthinking it, guys. I know Jim Hiller just got here. Ugh. Like, they have the best video crew in the league. If there's an offside within a tenth of a millimeter, they're going to figure it out. But all Jesse has to do is pull up NHL.com and be like, oh, you probably shouldn't use William Neelander, actually. Which is counterintuitive and odd. But look at the numbers.

They stink. Yeah. They only have 18 guys who actually qualify for the record books. So, yeah, amongst those 18 skaters, Willie and Austin do not have a good percentage of goals there. So, use your brain a little bit. Like, they asked you Miller after the game. They're like, how come McKenna's not getting in overtime? He's like, well, I've called him.

I've called him. He just hasn't got out there. I'm like, what did he refuse? What does that mean? I think what it means is that Austin double shifted at the end. He's been taking very, very long shift. He has. It's difficult to criticize him when he actually scored in the previous game.

But I think that's what happened. So someone sent me a message today. Jesse, because we were talking about skating speeds. And Gavin McKenna is actually now, I believe, a top five. 99th percent out. Yeah, I was going to get to that later. I'll show you now, though. It was over 37 kilometers an hour.

That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, it was. With the shootout and the three-on-three thing, like if I'm a coach there, I want everybody who's under the age of, like, 21 to be in those scenarios. Uh-huh. Their hands and the way they've played hockey growing up,

it leans so much more towards that game than the older guys. Like, no offense, but the kids these days do things on the ice and their skills that the old guy just never did growing up. And I want McKenna in a three-on-three scenario. I want him a shootout just to see what he can do. And I think Jim Hiller should have deployed him on Saturday. And he should have tried it last night. Yes. Yeah, I should have a Saturday or was it Monday.

I forget. Today is Friday. Or the three-on-three. Was it a national game? I don't know. The two times they had the three on threes. I want to see me kind of out there. Tuesday Thursday.

Yeah, Tuesday Thursday. And he didn't do it. And I think it's a little weird. It is weird. Just put them out there. It's not even at home. I understand why you wouldn't do it at home. I can understand that.

I could be like, oh, okay, well, maybe you don't want to put too much pressure on him. You're in Vegas. It could be further from home. It's, again, it's difficult. They won. Like, it's hard to look back at that. And like, even in last night's overtime. Well, that's why I said, they did not lose.

He was saying try it like on in the road on the road in Vegas. I was agreeing with you. Well, in front of a quiet building, too. Well, yeah, it's the first non-sellout in Vegas Golden Knights history last night. And I think that is worth mentioning because, as we know, Canadians aren't going to Vegas anymore.

And the interesting thing about this game, though, and the interesting thing about Vegas is they've never needed Canadians to sell out an arena. No, that's why I was surprised. Like, I know Lee fans are well-traveled. That's very surprised. It was weird. Under 16,000.

And it was weird because, like, even in overtime, you could see it. Like, there's nobody there. It was very strange. I got to say credit to their in-game staff. Like, their... Game ops. Great game ops.

Again, folks, we're operating it. We're operating on safe mode this morning. No, it's credit to their game ops because it still sounded loud and it was still Vegas Golden Nighthockey. I would have never known until they started releasing the stat that. that fewer than 16,000 people were there. That's shocking to me. Yeah.

I don't have a chirp. Like, that's just, it's, it's not about fans supporting, or like being fairweather. Like, they just went to the same like a final. I'm like, oh, that paints a picture of a dark economic time that I don't feel like waiting into. On, just back to McKenna in his deployment, I did like, if we're going back to the start of the game, the fact that he did change the lines and have Easton Cowan on the second line. I like that too. I did like the little switch there.

It's what he said his reasoning for it was that that's how the game ended and that's how we won against Nashville. Let's stick with that. And I didn't mind that at all. No. I thought it was an effective second line. I thought Easton Cowan was great on that second line. Yes. I thought McKenna is good at going to get the puck for the guys on the third line.

Yeah. I thought it worked. Except when it didn't. When they were losing. You guys are better at fashion than I am. I like a free charity tournament shirt like this is about it. What is a great brand of like shirt? Adam, what's your favorite brand of shirt?

I don't know just go generic here. Ralph Lauren. Okay, great. Ralph Lauren's good. No, what is a great pair of snow pants? Right? I don't know. What I'm trying to say is these two things are great in their own regard,

but wouldn't necessarily go great together. And last night, I was looking at this. You mean like a mustard cupcake? Yeah, mustard cupcake. I like mustard. I like cupcakes. I don't like them together. Right.

Thank you, Adam. Way to do me, but I'm just pulling a Steve, man. Oh, that's good. This decor does not match this forward group at all. And last night was a great emphasis

of that. I know Christanave had that excellent pass to Easton Cowan. Like, it obviously wasn't all bad. Maybe I shouldn't react. It's early in the season. I really liked Darren Radish's game. I wish.

that goal had been his. Damn it. That's okay that it's Nick Paul's. I don't care. I kind of care. Nick Paul tried to get out of the way. Yeah, but both of them got their, one of them was going to get there first.

Yeah, the former, radish bomb. The two former lightning combined, that's kind of fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, but last night, like on the broadcast, I'm like, holy cow, you can tell the leaves are so much faster.

The way they were playing was crazy. And they still have a bit of a problem breaking it ever. And it's because they're plotting back there. Well, they are slow. I also want to say this, man. I'm going to give you the unpopular opinion that I think that these guys are all not as bad as what they've shown. You can't tell me, remember the Nashville game, how many gifts OEL, Tanev, and McCabe gave them.

They just gave the puck away in their own zone. And they luckily didn't pay for it. That's not like if there anything, you can criticize it for a lot of things. That's not what they should be criticized for normally because it's normally not what they are. I think that's clean. You can clean that up. up. Now, when it comes to puck moving defensemen, I am curious as to, like, Oliver Reckman Larson and Troy Stetcher doesn't work. It's not good. Jesse, can you look up the penalty

kill ice time leaders? Because I forgot to do this yesterday. Um, it doesn't work. It's not working right now. On the leafs. Yeah. No, because it leads into this conversation. Um, Nick Blankenberg. Yeah. Should be playing. Should have played against Nashville. Should play Saturday against Colorado. There's no question. one of them. Well, Nick Blankenberg is actually really good though. Yes. And can move a puck. And he's going to be your third pairing guy who can move a puck. The thing with Troy Stetcher is you always get effort. But I think once you start playing him more than five or six games in a row, it starts to get stale and you've got to sit him for a couple. I don't know what it is about him. There's certain guys

like that. So there's two things there before Jesse gets to that stat. Number one, we'll see if my eyes are liars, but I'm fairly certain they're trying to keep Morgan Riley away from the power play or sorry not not from the power they are trying to do that but they're trying to keep them away from the penalty kill um to maybe save him for five on five i don't know if it's that they don't trust him but Troy stetcher helps them do that and the other thing it's been building over these five games and the last couple games especially i'm like oh boy i love stetcher's heart i think he's a beauty he's got an above average motor and i think that's about the only thing about him that is above average.

Yeah. Well, I think that's what he's paid for. If to be a very average or slightly below average. I know. I know. And it's not his fault. It's like using Tyler Bozac as your first line center. It's not his fault.

Yep. That he's, that he's being used there. If we're in a reality in early spring next year where the Leafs are competing for or in a playoff spot, there's no chance. Like, there's just no chance he's in your top six.

No way. Unless you're doing a Chicago with Kimo Teaman and he's playing like five minutes a night Is Duncan Keith walking through the door? No, that's the problem. Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook? Yeah.

Right? So I'd love to know where Troy Stetcher is in Penalikil Ice Time for the Leafs because I got to imagine that's what's keeping him in the lineup. Amongst all players, he is seventh. Okay. And amongst defensemen, he's third.

Third. So he's played 221 on a lot of, average and Tanev's at 338, McCabe's at 329, and then in between them is Duhame, Sisson's, Blugher, Paul. Right. And who's fourth amongst defensemen? Oh, Oliver Ekman Larson, who Jeremy Lozahn tried to crack open like an egg last night.

Yeah, we'll get to that. Hold on to that. Well, yeah, I do want to get to that. So, like, if Blankenberg gets into the lineup, he might have. Well, it's either. It's either because Ekman Larson's hurt and can't play, or. you have to do what the Leafs are obviously trying to avoid, and that's put Morgan Riley on the penalty kill more.

Yeah, which is the idea. He's averaged 48 seconds. Yeah. It's clearly not the place they want him. And last night, you know, he dove, he blocked a shot. Like, I'm not, I'm not criticizing his play. I'm just saying this is what, I'm trying to figure out why the Leafs are doing this.

And that, that has to be why. I think there, I think he deserves a little bit of criticism for his play. Because the one thing that the broadcast kept emphasizing was gap control. Like that was the word of the night last night. And it was true. Like they had to emphasize that because Rattish and Riley just kept moving back and they wouldn't pressure the puck. And there were some advanced stats thrown out on Twitter from sport logic and that like that pairing across the entire national hockey league, they allow more clean zone entries than any other pair. Is this OEL and Stetcher?

This is Riley and Radish. Oh, wow. Right. Okay. It's just the reality of the situation is they're allowing teams to come too clean into the zone. And that's when you have the latter play where Stone can just walk into the face off dot and take a giant slap shot on the goaltender. That should never happen when the numbers are even in transition. It was three on three and then two on two.

And a guy is walking all the way down into the zone like that. That's bad defense. Like, I know some people look at the Mark Stone goal and go, you need a save. Like, dude, it's a blistering slap shot from in close top corner. No. Like, it's terrible defense. It's, yeah, like, players should not be able to take that shot, right? Or, like, make them change the angle a bit.

Or just make his life more difficult. If Mark Stone sees that space, he's going to be like, welp, and just take it. And he did, and he blasted it. And that started the road back. Barboshev Eichlestone, 80% expected goals last night. And here's the... They got ran over. Here's the sport logic stat I wanted to give out from Justin Borg.

Amongst NHLD who've played 55-on-5 minutes this year, 121 guys, Riley and Stetcher, are fourth and fifth worst at DZone entry denials, both under 40%. By gap distance, Radish 8th best, McCabe 11th best, both mid-packing. in the NHL at Denials, but best on Toronto. Riley's bringing that pair down severely.

And there's the stetcher number two. No, I'm being mean about it. And I think it's never been more evident, just clear with your, if you want to eye test, if you don't believe the numbers on that stone goal. Yeah, like, listen, at the end of the day with Riley, I'm moving the goalposts because salaries have gone up so much. We can't keep doing this. we can't i love him i love him we can't keep doing this that's like if this team is hoping for a return

to relevancy like if it weren't for that no move clause there is no shot he would still be a leave no like i i know like brad for living hates making a move yeah and he was trying to do it yeah and mo just wouldn't wave John Chica is reptilian in his decision-making. He does not care. And I think if he had his way, Riley would be so gone. So gone. And I don't want to just blame one guy.

But it's disheartening when you go out there and you make a trade for one of the highest scoring defensemen in the league last year and you pay him all this money. And Jesse reads that stat out. He's one of the best in the league at this thing that his defense partner, who is Mo, is one of the worst at. Like you're lighting $8.5 million on fire, not because Radish is doing a bad job, but because Riley is. And this is the 20th D partner it hasn't worked with. How many frigging D partners has he had? A lot.

The only silver lining here is McCabe Tannave hasn't looked good either. So you might be justified in splitting them up and figuring it out. Maybe you'd go back to Tanev, Riley, and see if it works. And then you have, like, you know that it won't. I know that it won't. It doesn't work with anyone. But that stat you just read out about McCabe and Radish being one of the best. Can that not be your shutdown pair then?

And there's also an offensive element to it? I think it's worth a shot at this point. I would, because I, through the neutral zone, like, the Leafs are just terrible. You're six games into a 84 game season and you're willing to get the blender out for your forward. Yeah. Yeah. Everything that Ottawa was doing was just in transition. And I think it's just evident enough, like the defensemen back there can't keep up with the game that the forwards are playing.

You mean Vegas, right? No, no. In that Ottawa game, where they were scoring that, those, all those goals and they lost on that Saturday. And then Nashville looked a little better because I think it was a great comeback. And early on it was a little sloppy, but I don't think. I don't think Nashville's very good. No, Nashville is not very good. And then with the Vegas game, it's just a lot of what I saw in that Ottawa game.

So I think you've reached a point where it's just worth a shot to mix it up because you know what you have with those six, with those pairs. Now that you have the more evidence from the Vegas game, let's try something. Like, I'm willing to see the Riley Tanna. Because I think if Adam's dream came true and that there's a Morgan Riley trade out there, John Chico would have made it. Yeah, I don't think there is one. He is shown so much evidence that if he can yard sale a man that he doesn't like, he is going to do it. And I think he tried. I think he tried all summer.

But Mo controls the situation. He can say, no, I don't want to go anywhere. And I assume he has done that. And then if there was a quality trade, he would have made it. So I think we got to figure it out with what we have here. And maybe in a couple months in a little bit, he can actually make that trade. Do you remember what I said in preseason about this? trade Morgan Riley

Well no I actually said When they started putting him with Darren Radish I said He needs to earn it And yeah And it's just because he's It's John Hiller did the same thing as

Brubay did the same thing as Sheldon Keith And when Babcock and Keith kind of had that transition Morgan Riley was a 70 point defenseman You know so that that that Okay fine I'll give you that But the reality is Very long time ago

Last night I saw OEL go up with radish for a bit, right? They did try that. He did. They were on, they were on a couple of pairs together. Why is Morgan Riley not your puck moving defenseman on the left side on the third pair? I don't understand this. So when I talk- And then you can play him short-handed. Yes. When I talk about the Leafs being slow back there and not matching the rest of the team, I was alarmed at how much that applied to Moe. Right. Last night, because that's not the Mo we know. He, you know, drafted in 2012. He was this fitness freak, unbelievable skater. And there's just so many hard miles.

He's approaching a thousand games in a leaf uniform, let alone in the NHL. And you're just not the same player at a thousand games that you are at zero, coming off of all the wear and tear. And listen, it is very early. It's game five. I'm not panicking. No one should panic. But Steve, we've seen this for years.

years. No, no. This is not game five, actually. Not that the end of my sentence is I'm not panicking, but this very obviously has to change. And John Chica's job here is very difficult because, uh, the number one piece that you need to move fully controls his situation and he doesn't want to go. Yeah. He's got two more years after, or wait three three more years after this one.

Yeah. I just want to go in record. Three more years after this one. Yeah, he's in year five. Oh dear Yeah I want to go on record And say I hated this contract The moment it was signed

I said it on the show I said it was terrible And I believe I deserve some credit for that No People were so fucking mad when I said it too Yeah because we like him Like that is again I've said this before

We said this before This is a misconception about Leaf fans You can't have it both ways Either were Raving, foaming at the mouth lunat who want to drive everyone out of town or we're planning the parade every year. You cannot do both, right?

And then the internet said, watch me. Yeah, the internet said watch me. I don't know why you're trying to reason with the unreason. I know, but like Leaf fans like Leafs players, and we like Morgan Riley. We like the guy. We have memories. It's crazy that we still bring up his 72-point season.

You know how friggin' long ago that was? that season might have been longer ago than the... Was that not the Vegas Golden Knights inaugural year? No, it was 1819. So the Vegas Golden Knights were two years old. Yes. One year old, actually. He didn't have that 68 point season in 22.

Yeah, I don't know. He had a 20-go year, did he not? That was the 72 points. Like, even that I'd kill for. Like, I want a defenseman... Oh, yeah. No, no, like, sorry, what I mean by that is, I want, at very least, I want a defense.

offenseman, I go, well, yeah, you take the good with the bad. Some sort of the conversation that we had with Nealander, who had an awful game. It was not good last night. Holy. No. But like, you take the good with the bad. Some nights, he's going to be absolutely dominant. And other nights, he's not going to be dominant and still probably have a point or two. Right. I would kill for that out of Mo. And you're just, you're not getting it at either end of the ice with him. And it's dragging down someone you put a half decade, very expensive investment in the most of that game. The way I sit with

the Morgan Riley situation is that this is the situation and you have to figure out how to move forward with him on the team because it no you don't. It's it's going to be really hard to get it. What are you going to do? Healthy him? End of this season you buy him out and I've just got the calculator up. Wow. So but I'm talking about like right now.

Okay. Yeah. Like today is what I'm trying to talk about. The team on the ice where you're trying to win and win playoff games. They have to figure out how to have him on this team for now because there's our trade available. And I think at least breaking up the Tanna of McCabe thing because they haven't played that well is the first step.

It's a nice idea. It's something. It's something that's different. That isn't nothing. Exactly. Now, I'm fascinated by that out. You want to buy them out.

Buy them out at the end of the season. Can you buy out a player on a no move? You can because I don't think, I don't know if it extends into that. But yes, you can buy, apparently you can buy them out because I click the bio button and it said yes. Okay. Wow. Buyout cap hit would be $3.5 million to be saving.

$4 million on the cap the next three years. So your penalty is $3.5 million for the next three years. And then for the following three years, it's $2 million. I don't care. It's not an immediate, no. It is not. It's absolutely not. Especially with the cap, who cares?

I saw a tweet this morning that was a... I guess with a no move clause, you can buy out. Can you not? I don't know. Yeah, I don't see any reason why you couldn't. I saw a tweet this morning. There's no bonuses. That's the key.

No performance bonuses. This is not a buyoutproof contract. Okay. There was only bonuses the first two seasons. It will end if they don't trade him. If they don't do this, he will have a modified no trade in 2829. So two seasons.

With 10 team no trade list. That's two seasons from now. His contract expires at the end of 2030. Or the end of the 2030. No, I think you can trade that player. I just don't know to who or how. power when yeah no no you can't because he has a no move yeah Steve um I saw a tweet that was I think it's adorable that and I can't remember who said this but I I think it's

adorable the Brad Trilliving came within one minute of trading Matthew Nyes but he couldn't figure out how to sell high on OEL yeah dude good point and like maybe this is unfair because it seems like the guys hurt now that was the move and it's the hardest thing to do like I remember people were banging the drum and this is going way way way way way back but like Brian McCabe was leading the league in defensive scoring and people were like you have to trade him now now he will never be better than this now and this is when five million was like 12 million yeah it's a lot of money and um they didn't do it and it became like the biggest albatross on the team and really sent them or became one of

the contributing factors into sending them into a dark era I'm not not saying Oliver Ekman-Larsen is that. I'm just saying it's very difficult to sell high on a guy and across many different regimes of management. It's something they've really struggled with. Like JVR. Hyman. Should have sold on JVR, Bozac. Hyman, they should have sold on this own rental bullshit. Yeah. Kyle Dubas tried to pull and a bunch of people on Leafs Twitter defended it. Oh, well, you can't re-sign them, but you may as well keep them. No, no, no, no, no. Because leave fans like Leave players. No, no, no, people, Lee fans liked Kyle Dubus and let him get away with a lot.

You're absolutely right. And I liked Kyle Dubus. You're right. You're right. That shit, when you look at back in retrospect, they could have had a lot for those guys. Yeah, but I think our opinions in 2018 changed with the times, which was the cap remating flat. And his didn't or the teams didn't. Anyway, all that to say, here's what's encouraging.

All the rumors from the insiders are that the Leafs are active in trade talks and it's on defense. Good. All I want are indicators that this front office knows what they're doing. Forward group looks way different, way better. Decor, while they did add radish, still looks pretty bad. But they're trying to change it. Yes.

And the goaltending looks good. Rob Bovrovsky signing him. man last night he kept them in the game he was the only reason that was remotely close he was amazing I don't think he's had a bad game yet I personally don't either yeah if you go through them like nothing's really been his fault like okay

dobish was great in the game against him allmark was great in the game against him last night he was the better goalie he was the better twice as busy goalie and team let him down breaking news hockey fans Tim Horton's hockey cards back and here's the great thing this year if you find a prize card

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Should we talk about Oliver Ekman-Larsson and Jeremy Lowe's on? Because this hit was bizarre. Like, I was on the stream going, like, I understand why he might have hit him. I don't know why he body slammed him. I was like, I even said that on the stream. I'm like, that feels like a penalty to me whether he touched the puck or not. And it turns out,

didn't touch the puck. Did not touch the puck. No, you take your pick. It's interference or roughing. It's two minutes. It's, yeah. And that's all anyone was asking for. I've got to hear, Jesse.

But if you want to, if you go back and watch the footage, it's four officials talking. And the one who had his back to the penalty box kept looking up, kept looking up at the amount of time that was left, which was under two minutes. And you know what they're thinking, because they're

NHL refs and they don't do a job. I can't call this penalty with this amount of time left. That's what they're all thinking. And there was a stat last night that actually sent me down a rabbit hole, and I'd like to go for a miniature run in the field, if you don't mind. TSA, sometimes you have a piece of information,

and I don't know if everyone involved understands how significant it is. Last night, I don't remember if it was Mike Johnson or Gord Miller, said the Vegas Golden Knights have led the NHL in fewest times on the penalty kill for five consecutive years. And I texted every group chat I'm in, and I went, did I hear that correctly?

I think the odds of you winning the Stanley Cup five years in a row are more likely. than getting the fewest times on the penalty of five years, five years in a row. And they were talking about, well, maybe it's coaching. The Vegas Golden Knights are notorious for being in on absolutely every player. And as a result, they have probably some of the heaviest turnover in the NHL. So they change what they are kind of drastically on a year by year basis, regardless of who's the coach.

and you're telling me every single year they are the least penalized team and I went and looked at it their penalty differential over that five year span is plus 122 meaning they've been on the power play 122 more times than they've been on the penalty kill and you might be like well that's because

they've been a very good team they have been a very good team but in points I think the stat was in wins they're 11th and in points their 8th. You know who's higher than them in both categories over that span? Toronto Maple Leafs. The Toronto Maple Leafs. And also a bunch of teams because 11th is not all that high. Eighth isn't even all that high.

It's good. But it's not enough to justify five straight years to be in the least penalized team. And then I went and looked, even though their penalty differential is 122, which I think is third in the NHL over that span, the Vegas Golden Knights are second last in power play opportunities and last in times on the penalty kill.

Everyone talks about the Vegas flu and whether or not it exists. And I'm telling you it does, and it's for the guys wearing black and white. They show up, I don't know what headspace they're in, but they show up in Vegas and they decide we don't call. penalties in Vegas. We don't call them against the Golden Knights, and we don't call it against their opponents,

either Vegas Golden Knights fans. I'm not saying this is why they lost last night. I'm not. They should have called that penalty. I would love to see the home and away splits on those stats, too. Like how many were, like, you know, what the home stats is, I think that would tell you for sure whether there was or not.

There's probably a way to find that. That's a great, great question out of it. To back you up, the all-time record, for least penalties taken in a season, 24, 25, Vegas Golden Knights, 197 penalties the entire year, shattered their own previous NHL record from 22, 23, their championship run where they had 243. That's really low.

The Vegas Golden Knights have had fewer five-on-three penalty kills over the last five years than the Arizona Coyotes who have not played a game in two years. Sorry, there's something there. It is a game. I'm sure these Golden Knights fans would agree with you. It's a league with 32 teams played on ice with a puck made of rubber. And you're telling me you've led the league in a category for five straight years.

Wrong. Try again. Try again. What? Like, remember there were a few straight years where Colorado led the league in, it was like penalties drawn and penalties taken? Yes. These guys, they don't do their job and they don't watch the game in front of them.

Because they waltz into Colorado. I'm not making it about the Leafs. They waltz into Colorado or any avalanche game because they could be on the road. And they go, it's Colorado. Tonight's a heavy whistle night. And they walk into every Vegas Golden Knights game by the statistics. And they go, this is a whistle away night. Now, and if you're the Vegas Golden Knights, you build your team accordingly

because you have a sample size of half a decade you can rely on. No. You're incorrect. Oh, well, I think the reason is I think the reason is what? Nothing could justify that that would make sense. They're going in there with a game in mind and they're doing it. You're telling me the same guys that employed Tim Peel

who was on a hot mic going, I'm looking to give a penalty to Nashville. You're telling me that same group of guys doesn't do exactly the thing that I'm saying. You're out of your mind. They do. By the way, what did you think of the first OEL penalty where his stick was just behind him? And somebody skated through it.

And they're like, well, you're going to the box now. He had one hand, one hand on it. Now, this Jeremy Lozon thing. It's a penalty. It's crazy. At minimum, it's a two minute minor. And it seemed like, I was like, do they have history? I'm like, they're both defensemen.

I know OEL is not a popular guy amongst forwards that play against him because he's chippy. But I didn't think this was just crazy. He just picks him up. and look at where the puck is. And he never touched it, by the way. He never touched it. No, and he, listen. He put him down head first?

Yes, it's okay to finish your check. It's okay to finish your check. It's okay to finish your check hard. It's hockey. It's a contact sport. I get it. He spikes his head into the ice like a football. And if Oliver Ekman Larson,

who's been in the NHL forever and has played as many games as he has, can't get this call. Lord help the rest of the rest of. to you. Like that hook, Gavin McKenna and Mark Stone, yeah, you can call it. But if the rolls were reversed, you're absolutely not calling that. This is an 18-year-old and a tenured NHL captain. You're not calling Mark Stone. I know it's a hypothetical and I'm right automatically because it didn't happen, right? And what McKenna did did happen. But I just don't believe you if you think

if the rules were reversed, that is getting called. The usual rules just never seem to apply to the Toronto Maple Leafs. Like that, where's OEL's veteran whistle? He's never had it from the moment he's put blue and white on. He's got a tight whistle. He gets called for fucking everything. And that's not a call?

What do you do? What? Genuine question, what do you do? Because I know for a fact, the dubous era Leafs bitch to the league

about everything and I I think it affected the way they were treated it affected their perception league-wide

and within the league so what do you do? I asked a question during the preseason that I didn't get a ton of pushback on

and I don't remember who the two players involved were but there was a player who completely turtled gloves on. And there was another player who threw their gloves off and beat the shit out of this player.

And we were talking about whether it'd be a suspension or not. And it was not a suspension. It was a fine. It was a fine. And I asked a very simple question. Which player would you rather be? The reason I advocate for the Leafs to be, it used to be tougher. The word I'm going to use is violent.

The NHL is regressing to like the 2000s. Brandon Hagel's hit on Porter Martone was crazy. Last night, Ridley Grigg getting his stick up on Owen Tip, it's crazy. There was that other headshot, Naser, I can't remember the player who he hit. Like, that's crazy. And it was Otavinen on Brennan-Othman. Right. That was the incident.

And which player would you rather be? Villi Otavinen or Brennan-Othman. Would you rather be the player doing the ass kicking? He's not going to... under $2,200, he's not going to notice that that's gone. 21, 972, to be exactly. Get out of here. He's not going to notice that that's gone.

His boys are going to take care of them. The team's going to take care of them. You know that. Which player would you rather be? And I look at that clip. And instead of screaming into the void about George Peros, I'm just looking at Lozon and I'm looking at OEL and I'm going which player would you rather be? You'd rather be Lozon.

Oh, but it's bullshit. They should, yeah, no, totally. But they're not calling it. So fucking, like, all you can do is live life with the information that you have. You make decisions based on the information that you have. The information that you have is that you can get away with like spiking a guy's head into the ice like a football. And every time these guys take the ice for an 84 regular season game and playoffs,

they need to look at a clip like that and decide which player they'd rather be. They got to look at the Ottivinen and Othman clip and decide which player they'd rather be. You got to look at Hegel and Martone and decide which player you'd rather be. Would you like your team to play like that more? if the Toronto if if you we go back in time in the multiverse and the Leafs and Panthers switch sides do you think I would be doing the same yelling and screaming about calls and what they get away with if they literally just swap jerseys you had two cups three trips to the finals you'd be pretty happy with how they're playing and not be complaining with the referees

Which team would you rather be? I think you'd be pretty happy doing Florida Panthers reaction video. Yes. This is why, like, during the Clippers saga, which took a year, I was like, guys, just cheat. There is, there are no repercussions for anything. That one had repercussions. Finally. Yeah.

Thank God. And they hammered. They took like a giant circus clown mallet and bashed the clippers over the head with it. because you have to when that shit happens or everyone's going to do it. And the next one is Man City in the EPL. You have to crush them because the standard has to be you can't do this. And in the NHL, the standard is do whatever the fuck you want. To answer your question from earlier, Adam, the Golden Knights do have less penalties taken on the at home than on the road.

Damn, that's crazy. It is a Vegas thing. since 2021, 2022. They've played 207 games on the road. Their penalties taken per 60 is 3.05. So that's 0.2 less than the next closest thing. Look at the gap. So, but I want to just emphasize the home and the road thing.

Sure, sure, sure. Or if you start yelling at the stats. So you can go here and then you can do the home split. So that's point, the 3.05, right? So we'll set it for. home. It is 2.75. Whoa. Penalties taken per 60.

That's enormous. Justifiable. That's the drop. Dude, look at this. That's crazy. The gap on the road and at home is insane. That's unjust. What explanation could you possibly have? Over five 82 game seasons,

because all five of those were 82 games. We start counting from when the full seasons come back. Contact sport. On ice. Puck made a rubber. Five street. No! It's 208 games at home.

And then the other one was, I believe, 204 on the road there. Wow. But yeah, NHL.com, you can really get the numbers. So anybody who doesn't, who's like a hockey nerd like us, you can really play around with numbers on NHL.com. It can be. 207 road. So almost exactly split.

It's 208, 207 there, home and road over the course of five seasons there. 3.05 versus 1.75. What about penalties drawn per 60? You are absolutely having a laugh looking at those stats. We're absolutely having a laugh. They don't call penalties in that building. At T-Mobile in Vegas, referees for some reason put away their whistle,

and there's enough evidence that it is true. Tim Peel, by the way, tweeted about, like, being at like a craps table or whatever it was with NHL players. And, like, Jeremy Ryder. He did. He 100% did. And he did. Yeah, it's the off season and yes, it's his free time.

But you're telling me this doesn't happen during the regular season? Come on. Yeah. Come on. And you know what? Even if it doesn't, it's still a bit of a conflict. Even in the off season, it's a conflict. Okay.

What we're suggesting is outlandish and there's no proof of it. Someone explain that bullshit we just showed. Yeah, there is evidence based on the numbers that less penalties are called over the course of the last five years at Team Mobile in Vegas for whatever reason. That is factual information. It's statistical fact. Across the National Hockey League, they call less penalties in that building for both teams. For both teams.

For both teams. I'm not no one is going to get here. It's for both teams. Jesse, take your own advice. No one cares about the context. But I want to say that you can't what they would say to you is cry and diaper. Yeah, cry and diaper. but also the NHL and the NHLPA

and the refs would all say, well, that doesn't mean that your theory is correct. That doesn't make it correct. It just means it's a statistical fact. That's what they would say. A hundred percent. We'll investigate it. They will never hear from us again.

We'll investigate it and Dan Kelly can shove Michael Bunting and it's fine and the officials can take retribution over the Calgary Flames and it's fine and retribution over bunting and retribution over Cadry. And all right. All right. Yeah.

Can I correct you on one little thing? Please. You did it a couple times. You did it once in the LFR and did it here. You're not giving the broadcast credit for bringing this up. Okay. You kind of... No, yeah.

They brought it up, but then you're like, they just kind of moved on from it. That's their job to move on from it. They're not doing a podcast. I know. Okay. But that's how I came across in the LFR. You're like, Mike Johnson brought this up.

Right. And then they kept doing the game. They need to do the game. game and they're not doing a three-hour podcast where you can do 20 minutes on it. That's a very good. Them bringing it up is crazy because the amount of information that they have available to them that's left on the cutter room floor that doesn't make the show or the game is incredible.

Like you would be astonished anybody listening behind the scenes, the amount of prep that goes into a game that at the end of it is just throwing the trash because there's not enough time to get to it. And the fact that this one snuck in there and allows us to have that conversation, that's cool for them to actually get that in there. can attest to this. They go around the both dressing rooms at MorningSkate just to gather stories and stuff that

they can tell in the broadcast and they probably tell 25% of them. Oh my God. If that maybe. Yeah, no, that's a very you're absolutely correct. Why are you a hater? Gordon and Mike, they're doing a fantastic. They are. Oh yeah. I wish they did every game. Now, there are times

when Adam. There are times when I felt a little bit last night. I'm like are we commentators for the Toronto Maple East or the Vegas Golden Knights? I get that Colton Sisson's once put on a Vegas Golden Knights uniform. I also understand I've heard that Mitch Marner played in Toronto

and like, okay, I got it. The Colton Sizan stuff was overdone. Yeah, like, okay, cool, man. We got it. Five games, man. I don't know. Guys, guys, guys. Talk to me. The shots are like 20 to three this period. Let's focus on that. Former night. Anyway, they ham that up a lot.

McKeta, worth mentioning McKenna now has three points in two games. Correct. And he is second in rookie scoring. That's hilarious. Between Antoine and Frundel. Oh, Frundel. Yeah, so he is,

Frendel has four points. Mekeda's got three. Stenberg had an assist on an O.T. winner last night from the Nurse Shark. Oh, that was a great pass. Can I be straight about something? I think on balance,

on balance, coming out of what we had last year, if you told me this was the start, and that they took a point from the Stanley Cup finalists. I'd be all right. I am thrilled with the way this is gone. What I learned last night is the Leafs could threaten for the bottom of the playoffs. They are nowhere close to a, a challenger for the,

a legit challenger for the cup yet. But I do think if things continue to go this way, they can. It's possible. Is it remote? It's always remote. There's 32 teams. But I look at this and I go, they need another top four defenseman at least probably could use two uh i don't know think of the

assets to get that this season i think in the next off season they're going to need to address center they're going to need a new second line center it's it's it's it's time we've been saying that for a couple of years they probably know this too i'm not i the thing with the last regime is i wasn't sure that they knew this one this one i'm pretty sure they know and i guess they looked at it this summer and said okay we're going to get bluger we're going to get sisons they're going to be two year deals nick paul's got to play center for us too sure uh uh you uh He's got two or three years left. And all of those together are minor cap hits when you get into the $120, $130 million range,

which is where they're going. Yeah. Right? You need a legitimate second line center who can get you 60 to 80 points. And you need to move to Vars to the wing eventually or you have them further down in the lineup. I think that's what's got to happen. But I'm okay with it not happening this season. If you got to address it at the draft or free agency, then you go do that.

Right now, in season. if you got to give up Ben Danford and that Colorado first, it better be somebody who is good at defensive stops because watching Barbashev, Stone, and Eichel walk in with impunity last night, that was crazy. And I think that's, like, I know Simon Edvinson's the big name that's out there right now because you never know who's going to shake loose.

You never know. Neketian, too. Neketian, yeah, but I don't think he's the prototype of what they need. I'm just throwing it out. Yeah, Neketian's out there. Darren Ferris isn't his agent anymore, so I like him. Yeah, there you go.

I think, When you look at what Edvinson brings, obviously the Toronto Maple Leafs need to make that phone call. Do they have the assets? Probably not. But that is the archetypal guy that you must go out and find. The Bruins are apparently making that phone call. So you better also make that phone call. Keep it away from the Bruins. Figure out what it's going to take. Ironically, Fraser Minton could be used. Hilarious. I mean, they probably don't want to give them up. But if it's for Simon Evanston, maybe you think about it. but yeah, I have the good news is I have faith like you guys that they at very least understand what the problem is.

I also don't think that the defense will be this bad in 15 games. I don't. League wide. No, no, no. Well, the league wide and in the Leafs. I do think that with older players, sometimes you get a slower star, especially with a shorter training camp.

I do. I really do think they will round out into form. I've seen Jake McCabe and Chris, Chris Tanna at their best. This is not that. That's okay. One last little note. We talked about overthinking the shootout.

You're also overthinking three-on-three overtime. You don't have to have a center out there all the time. Okay. For the face-off's fine. Yeah. You don't need to have a center out there. No, you need David Komp. Get them back.

Get them back. Well, John Tavares. Does not need to play an overtime. Does not need to be out there all the time. Yeah, does not need to play an over. Especially when you've got a live line change, you don't need to be putting John Tavares out there. If you don't have the puck

and you're doing a live line change in play, John Tavaris does not come over the boards anymore. Coming over the boards for Austin Matthews, by the way. No. McKenna, I'd put Nick Paul in a heartbeat. It should be one of Nielander or Marchenko. It should be whichever one of those guys is not playing with Matthews, that's who should be coming over the boards.

Yep. What are we doing? I agree with you. It doesn't need to be him all the time. Yeah, I think sometimes coaches overthink those things where they say, okay, we need a defensive guy and we know that when in reality three on three is just so open and wacky

that you can just kind of do video game stuff and just throw out kind of your best skill makers. Yes. Playmakers, skill makers. Skill makers. The Leafs, I like, let's make a thing. While we've been talking, the Leafs called up Miles Wood. Oh, no way.

So I believe that means that OEL is probably injured. Blankenberg likely in. And then Miles Wood probably makes his debut against Colorado. I think a team he used to play for. on Saturday. Maybe they're going to put Blankenberg and Miles Wooden. I don't know what position he takes.

I don't mind Bo grew on the wing. I think he's better as a centerman, but he's much better. But I don't, I didn't see anything from that fourth line that I hated. I still really like those guys. I think it'd be really cool to throw Wood in there against his former team.

I think that'd be pretty cool. That's got to be a cap thing, right? Because that doesn't make sense. You lost a defenseman. Well, you already have Blankenberg on the roster, right? So you're just using up that space so you can get somebody up there and utilize the LTIR space. But you're on the road. So if another defenseman gets hurt, like, I don't know, it's just a pain in the ass.

They got planes. They have planes. We had this conversation like four years ago. I know. Oh, it was a lot longer ago than that. Wasn't it that long ago? We were talking about the Utica Comets. Oh, yeah.

And you were like, how would they possibly get an extra defenseman there? Well, they have planes. No, but like you lost the defenseman so you called up a winger that is peculiar. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. I assume it's just cap stuff. I think so too.

Yeah. I think it's just this is what's ideal for utilizing the space. Huh. Because Mileswood makes a significant amount of money, which is crazy. Puckpedia. Puckpedia. If you can hear me, puckpedia, please explain. It'll update in a little bit.

Dakota Joshua. It's too recent. I guess is. He's on LTIR. He's not L. Yeah. Right. They never really clarified what the abdomen injury was, but something with his abdomen.

Is he going to play again? But it's what a shame. Like that just came out of nowhere all of a sudden and then now he's just not to be seen. I think he'd fit this team perfectly. That's a shame. He can't play. Yeah. Crazy.

Even if he's healthy, he's ineligible. There is a website that made the rounds last night. Now, CJ's been saying this on the CJ show every time he has the chance to talk about it. But hellabucks.com will. track how much money Connor Hallibuck has forfeited. It's his day 111 we're in right now of 194 over the course of the season. People don't realize how NHL pay works. So I'm going to give you a quick background. Unlike your paycheck, NHL players only get paid for the six and a half months that they're in the regular season. They get paid in the playoffs, but not by the teams. They get

paid bonuses as a team split between the players for every round, right? Every round. Like if you get into the first round and lose, you get a bonus for playing. But if you win, you get a bigger bonus, right? So there's an incentive to want to win more money. Great. Connor Hellebuck is forfeiting $38,660 a day, $404,834 as of this moment. And since I opened my page, it's at least $25. And that was 10 seconds ago. Jesse, even less is 15 seconds. And you know what's crazy? It's 45, it's every second that we breathe, he is forfeited 45 cents. And I, what I, I think is fascinating here is Darren Dregor talking, because Darren Dregor's really

plugged into Winnipeg. The guy's from Winnipeg and he's like, you know, the real solution here is somebody's got to come to the thing and get, and make a real offer for Connor Hellebuck. I don't know if I got to pat myself on the back again, but the Jets look just fine with

Stuart Skinner, as I suggest that they might. And here's the thing. Stuart Skinner has gone to more Stanley Cup finals than Connor Hellebuk ever has. Two more, actually. This guy can play, and the Oilers defense was bad, and yes, he's a streaky goalie, but by signing Stuart Skinner and him being jacked to be in Winnipeg. He's pumped to be there, right?

This guy's not afraid of the north. He just got out of Edmonton. The fact is that Connor Hellebuck, I don't think, I don't know if it's possible to trade him if he's not playing this season anyway. We talked about this a lot preseason. Never underestimate the power of FU. Yeah. Red Wings looked awful. Dylan Larkin gets in there.

He takes his lumps. He gets booed. Scores the first goal of the game. Dam near Hasagoree Howe Hattrick. First star of the game, they win the game. The Winnipeg Jets don't have Connor Hellebuck. Stuart Skinner's in there and he's doing great. And the Jets are doing great without him.

Don't underestimate the power of FU. The Sends look pretty darn good. Saund's Brady Kachuck Don't underestimate the power of F you And you know Dregs is talking about You know a team needs to come to the table With a real offer so they can end this

Connor Helleba could end this today You could just show up to work He could do what the rest of us do It was so interesting seeing his just to add to that His Olympic teammate Kyle Connor say Well if he's going to come he better be here for the team not just for himself. And I was like, shit.

First off, if I was a Jets fan, run through a fucking wall for that guy. Absolutely. But second, he's right. And how do you, if you do come back at this point, how do you convince everybody it's not for that? Do what Dylan Larkin didn't perform.

Perform. Like, you know, Larkin's still probably going to get booed next game just because there's going to be different fans there. And they deserve it. Yeah, and they didn't have the opportunity to boo him the first time. Yeah, they deserve it.

If he keeps doing this, it's going to stop. If he keeps doing this, it's going to stop. Like, you know, I think Red Wings fans have a common enemy, and it's not Dylan Larkin, it's ownership. Right? They're chanting, sell the team. Like, the Larkin thing, like, that's not an unusual, that's not an unprecedented situation.

And I guess the Edvinson one isn't, either, but it's less justifiable. Why is, how isn't this player playing games for you right now? Right. So anyway, all, all that to say, there is a way out of it. And it's not by doing what Connor Hallibuck is doing. Your way out of it is to perform. The most gangster thing he could do is play, win.

imagine if he throws up a 35 save win and they're interviewing after the game Connor what you see out there well you know we did a good job getting in front of pucks cutting off angles the boys backed me up with some great goal support I still want to be traded imagine that imagine if he performed did well

and humiliated them by every time he gets in front of a microphone he just reiterated by the way I'd like to be traded like how bad do the Jets look you start getting I think he would start getting people on his side. Probably not in Winnipeg, but at least outside of that fan base, and maybe opinions outside of that fan base don't matter. But he's not,

even if they just start losing, if you just reverse their record, what would it matter? They're one of the teams who could look at this year and be like, all right, let's go for a lottery pick. Lena DuPont seems pretty good. Two points and two games to start his college career.

Hooray. You know? I don't know what the strategy is here for Connor Hullabuck. I'm impressed. I didn't think it'd get to this point. I thought eventually when that number starts ticking up and it's at $400,000, he'd start playing hockey again. And the fact that he's like sticking to his guns, I'm like, okay.

All the Sabres really. You really want out. You're willing to yard sale $8 million. Sure. Yeah. And like, listen, you only get one life and he's standing on his principles. Sure. Great.

everyone thought well you know both sabers goalies go down with injury now they're going to make that trade nope no like this is over the history of this podcast we haven't exactly been complimentary of kevin chevaldea for not making moves but this is what like you can't get killed on this deal no you got to make the right one here no you have to make the right one so and i'm still of the opinion it'd be interesting if you just kind of force him into retirement don't don't ever trade you have the ability to never trade him and have him sit on your gap for the next three seasons after this one benefit the jets though doesn't hurt though don't i think you just move forward you find you have i think i think the n hl would step in they would they'd force something

i think you know again i'd never side with the player the nchel would always say the team is doing what is in their right and if they don't see a trade that is there for them they do not have to trade conor hellabuck he got a medal from the president like seven months ago. Like forget the gold medal at the Olympics. Like, and here we are and he's not playing. Like, it's just, yeah, from a PR standpoint, I feel like someone would kick up a fuss. No.

I don't know who it would be. I don't think so. Maybe they would have done it by. Yeah, exactly. That's what I was about to say. Like, it would have been done if somebody's so, if the NHL's upset at them not trading him. Like, I don't think they'd ever side with a player.

The NHL is always about these teams and what they can do. And they're probably pretty upset that he's trying to force this. He is also not committing to his contract. He signed this. Like, regardless of what the NHL may or may not do, Connor Hellebuck is under contract and is not fulfilling his side. Imagine the Jets told him, we're just not going to pay you. Like, no, like, hey, you requested a trade.

Until we have a trade ready for you, we'll just stop your checks. and literally they can't do that. They cannot do that. And the whole gentleman's agreement thing that's so childish. Fellas, let's take a step into the real world. That doesn't exist. I can't tell you how many gentlemen's agreements

have never happened when I've been in our car. Oh, I'd love to live in a world where every handshake meant something. They don't. Also, we will try is not a gentleman's agreement. It's a we'll try. We'll do our best. We've got to do what.

it's right for the franchise. Yeah. Oh, I gave you a lot of good years, so you should trade me for a fourth round pick. Nope. Not how this works.

The interesting part for me on this saga, too, guys, is like, you know, there was the thing about well, Connor Hallibuck, he's, you know, he's starting to feel like his body is,

you know, he wants to play and he wants to get his body into shape and he wants to, I'm like, you can do that. Cool. I would find the guy putting that out there

and hit him with a hammer if I was Connor Hallibuck, because does that make it more or less likely that he's traded? Less. What, this guy feels like he's getting old and creaky? No, I don't think he's just more like he's seeing his friends go to work and he's not. And he wants to play. Go to work.

Go to work. Go to work. I don't want to either. Go to work. What? No one wants to. Go to work. I don't mind what we do.

Every morning, I'm like, These freaking guys. I don't mind this, to be honest. You know what? You know what? Here's how much I like you guys. On Tuesdays and Thursdays, sometimes I wake up a little bummed. Yeah, me too.

Me too. I'm like, ah. I want to do a short plan on tomorrow show because I just want to get ready. You're just so excited. It's not, dude, he could end this by just showing up to work. Like, can the Jets legally stop him? No, no, if he wants to play, they'll put him on the team. If I'm not mistaken, if they don't want him to be around the team, they can order him to not be around the team, but they would have to pay him.

Yeah, then you would start paying it. If he starts fulfilling his duties as a player, then they just have to start the paychecks. But they don't have to play him. Like, they don't have to put him in the lineup. He can be the third goalie or whatever. But if he starts doing the stuff, like showing up to the building, and they'll start paying him. Go to work. Or not.

Like, he's also doing the thing that he's allowed to do, which is not in sacrifice the paycheck. So maybe he doesn't need it. Like like like well he clearly doesn't. Yeah. We're throwing up this money as you know, we're looking at hellibucks.com as pores. Right. We are pores.

Right. But other guys have just been like, you know what? I don't actually give a shit. Um, Dustin Bufflin. Right. Tim Thomas is another fairly notorious.

He had one of the craziest white hot shining stars like in terms of gold tending. One of the most dominant run. of goal tending in certainly recent memory. And then like a year removed from that, he's like, I'm not going to play. And he just didn't play. And then he's like, I'm going to come back.

And he's like, I'm going to come back. Everyone's like, we've moved on. And then he didn't give a shit to a degree where like he's in a star's uniform with Panthers pads. He looks like an EASHL video game goalie. And then he left again. Yeah. You know, some guys.

Yeah. It's not about the money. Honestly, like he's doing what is in his right. Like the thing to show up to work, he doesn't have to. No. And the consequences of that is you don't get your $8 million and he's fine with that. So it seems like we're all fine with everybody's situation. So I'm waiting for the next like meaningful update here.

Yeah. You're right. Like both sides are like, I'm not going to trade you if we don't get a good trade. And he's like, I'm not going to show to work. And then the equal sign is then you don't get money and everyone's fine. Yeah. Yeah. So where are we going?

here guys maybe it's as simple as that yeah 405,138 405, 1039 405,40 God that that makes me ill that's a lot of money and that's American dollar oh he's serious that's 600 grand Canadian he doesn't care Evan Bouchard Evan Bouchard Evan Bouchard Evan Bouchard so jealous of Justin Fisher who has Evan Bouchard in our fantasy I he is six goals five assists 11 points a 73.5% expected goal 5 on 5. The last player, last defense, he was going to get six goals

in his first four games in the NHL of a season. No one. 1917, 1918. And do I have the guy's name? No. Odie Kleghorn. Basically that. That is how unbelievable this is. Could they pass the puck forward?

No. No, right? No, not back then, no. The four passers did not exist. Was it before the original six? 1718 was the first, yes, it was before the original six, but I think it was, it was, the first year. Yes, it was, but it was the first year of the NHL, not the NHA. Because remember, all the NHA owners left the NHA because they hated the Toronto owner,

and then they moved it to the NHL and then a new owner came in and I think. So I think in context, he is the first. Yes. There's no sense. He's the first. That's not baseball about this. That's not the same sport. still counts.

Ottawa senators have won Stanley Cups. They play for the Marauders? The millionaires? The Vancouver millionaires, the Montreal Maroons. Those are made up teams. And the weirdest name of all,

the Ottawa Senators. Oh, yeah, those teams don't count. Yeah, no. I don't care. I mean, they're fun in the Hall of Fame and you go, oh. But like, that's not hockey. No, and you get the piece of paper.

It's like, you must be able to do 20 pushups. And they all had other jobs. This was like a rec league. So his name was... This was a Canadian beer league. So Evan Bouchard actually is only second best. First off, it was Harry Cameron, who scored eight goals through his first four games.

And what gives Harry Cameron the edge, not just in goals, but just general vibes, is that he was a Toronto arena. Hell, yeah. And a retina. A retinas. So yeah, so sorry, Evan.

If you played in Toronto, maybe it would be different for you. So he did that in, 1918 19 I was right 1917 1918 and and let me let me be loud

and say this with my chest I want to see video footage We've Didn't exist dude Exactly yeah and if they did have it You wouldn't be able to see The play through all the cigarette smoke It did

By the way it was the 1718 season is the first official season of the NHL Wow. It was founded at the Windsor Hotel in November 26, 1917. This is the height of World War I. The inaugural teams, the Canadians from Montreal, the Wanderers from Montreal, the Ottawa and the Toronto arenas.

There were two Montreal. And the Toronto arenas won. We have the first Stanley Cup in history. Hell yeah. Suck on that! Scoreboard! Can't take that away from us! Montreal had two chances to win.

Hark, the scoreboard. Yes. Yeah, they had a 50% chance of winning. There's only 4 teams. No, a 25% chance. Come on. No, there's two Montreal. Oh, yeah.

There's four teams in league, right? Montreal's always cheated, though, and we know that. Yeah, they're just a bunch of cheaters. Let me say this with my chest. Evan Bouchard should be the runaway, breakneck speed, uncontrollable favorite for at minimum the Norris Trophy. Minimum. Would you play him on Team Canada next?

time. Okay. We've had enough time since the Olympics. That was bad. The theme of this show is overthinking it. What were we doing? Well, you know, especially when you look at the way the U.S. built there is with Rewinsky and Hughes, so much mobility and people are like, well, who's going to kill the penalty? I think what happened, and I was talking about this on the stream last night, they wanted to give Drew Doughty one last run. But you saw Drew Doughty at the Olympics. I saw Drew Doughty at the Olympics. Dude. I, people are like,

oh, not, Pareko should have been in it. No, no, I get why Pareko was there. Drew Doughty was not a puck-moving

defenseman at that level anymore. So when Drysidal, the other day was defending, they're like, well, we love when he's out there. I was like, could Connor McDavid not have

advocated a little harder for Bushard to be on that team? Like, like, we didn't, we didn't put enough into that. But anyway, all that's good that a lot of those guys have sort of stepped away,

you know? All that to say, like, one, have covered. Obviously we've talked about Evan Bouchard's warts, which are hilarious. They are. They're funny. They are funny. They are funny visually. And then you throw up a chart. And I'm not saying the chart is wrong. I am saying it's boring and not as funny as the actual footage. Yeah. The actual footage is funny, which is why we talk about it. Okay. He gave it up in a very funny way. He is the reason

that his team got scored against. But, you know, Jesse's especially been banging the drum about Eric Carlson got a Norris for getting 100 points. Bouchard had 95. I thought the writers did. They didn't do a service to what they've outlined. Wasn't nominated? He finished fourth in voting, which is against what the criteria that you made.

Yeah, that's crazy that he wasn't nominated again in retrospect. you know hindsight's 2020 I cannot claim the moral high ground here I can't because it's not like I was banging the drum I can't claim it but with the power of hindsight I think last like was it two weeks ago

we had this conversation I referenced the Isaiah Thomas thing I met the criteria and then I didn't make it yeah you did say that outlined here Eric Carlson had the season Evan Bouchard had a season not even nominate no and he's on pace to blow that season

out of the water Oh, yeah. Hey, Steve, do you think it's strange that, you know, because Evan Bouchard, when he does have those giveaways, he's had like 21 good zone exits. And then here's the bad one, right? When we do Evan Bouchard Carning, do you think that that's improper storytelling? Oh. Perhaps the we didn't tell the story properly.

And that's why Oilers fans get mad about it. Wow. I'm just asking the question. It's a fair point. Now, though, on many occasions, he's been, that play has been the reason. they lost the game. True. Which is why it's good storytelling to be like,

okay, he did all these good things. They lost the game on this play, though. Yeah, because the reason that it's like a highlight on an A shell.com is because a goal was scored as the end of the highlight. We don't see the ones that just happened in the game. We see the ones where there's a goal. No, here's where we would be assholes is if Bouchard had a funny giveaway and we ignored the fact that he had a seven point.

Yeah, the Oilers went 8 to 1. And yeah, it's like, well, look at this. You love the 1. Yeah, no, that, Adam, you have a point. I just don't think you have enough of points. Oh, ha ha ha ha. It's okay. Do you know how many DMs they bought?

You can't all be great at this. After that conversation about that Bleacher report thing, do you? So many people are like, what are you guys talking about that you can't? I'm like, hey, wait a second. You guys. One guy. It was you guy. All right?

It was just guy. Yeah. I mean, yeah, what are you guys talking about? And it's three guys with different opinions. Yeah. My favorite thing is like somebody will message me and they'll be like, I can't fucking believe you said that. And it'll be like Jesse said it.

And I'll be like, I didn't. Like, yes, you did. I'm like, go back and listen to the clip. Whose voice is that? And then sometimes they'll go back and then they'll go, okay, it wasn't you. Sorry. And then they'll go to my DM. Or Steve or whatever.

It's funny. It's just like, you know, it's so into it. One thing with Evan Bouchard that this should take away his case. Last year, second on the team. in terms of short-handed time on ice. Did kill penalties. You know, that Olympic thing, I don't know what the fuck you're doing team Canada.

He could have killed penalties for you. Who won the Norris last year? Zach Werensky. Oh, okay. Yes. He kills penalties. And Caulfield got the rocket. So Bouchard.

That's a joke. Yeah, we always get that very wrong. So Bouchard does kill penalties second on the team in terms of ice time, average ice time. This year, he's moved down the list. He's fourth amongst defensemen in short-handed time on ice. Now, what?

Wow. Yeah. So, isn't there? He doesn't deserve it. Yeah, he doesn't deserve it. Guys, vote him forth. I'm sure Eric Carlson killed so many penalties for the sharks. I'm sure he killed so many penalties.

Eric Carlson noted penalty killer for the sharks. Echo Murphy, Ryan Shea, and then Evan Bouchard is defenseman time on. That's why you go out and get Ryan Murphy, though. Connor Murphy, sorry. There's a lot of Murphy's. Yeah, like that just makes sense. Yeah, but I don't know. Oh, man.

it's less defense he's playing than last year, so he can't get the Norris trophy. If you want to really overthink it, you could be like Connor Murphy's role on the penalty kill is freeing up Evan Bouchard to be better offensively five on five. Last year it was Connor Murphy and then Evan Bouchard in terms of time on ice for defensemen short-handed. So voters, take that, vote them forth.

I mean, you deserve it. I like the people doing the Vince McMahon meme. It's like Evan Bouchard going for the Norris and they're bored. Evan Bouchard going for the Art Ross It's crazy And he's still You know

How many were two weeks into the season He's third In the fourth He should do the triple crown Norris Art Ross And Rockett Richard

Has anyone And Hart Obviously Oh go to the four Because the forward Could never do that Like I don't know Like did Bobby Orr ever do that

Did he lead the league in goals I know he led the league in points But I don't think he led the league in goals Did he lead the league in goals? Did he lead the league in goals? points? I don't know. Bobby Orr. Dude, he was, every Bobby Orr's stat is insane.

All right. So, they're almost more unbelievable than Gretsk's. His best season, 139 points in 70, 71. As a defenseman. In 1969, 1970. Oh, that is fucking Google skills. Hart, Ross, Norris.

That's insane. That's the best we got. Yeah. And he also won Art Ross and Norris in 74, 75. We got 74. He got And plus the, no heart, though. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait. What's that year there? What year is that where he won the Art Ross as a defenseman, the Pearson,

and what was the other one? And the Norris and was third and hard voting. Who won the heart? Can we click on that? Gonna beat you all to death. Right off, let me pull up the full heart thing. Oh my God. I don't know.

What? Is that the writer's being difficult? Okay. Do you guys want to take a guess? Phil Esposito. Oh, fuck off. It's Bobby Clark. I'll finish first in Hart Trophy voting.

Okay. I mean, the flyers were pretty great. Second, can you give me Rogee Vashon? Really? Rogi Vashon. Rogi Vashon. He had a great year as a goaltender, 927 save percentage. How many wins?

That's pretty good in the seven. Only 27 and 14. Yeah, but in the 70s, 927 is insane. That's great. I need somebody who watched this season to let me know. We'll have to call it. Allen. Alan would be like,

I was like Jeff Merrick's on it. He had, Jeff Merrick, uh, when we worked on ice surfing would never pass up an opportunity to bring up Rogi Vash on. So Bobby Ork could have won if there was a rocket Richard there. He had a goal less than Marcel Dion.

He was just behind Kiela Flur. He had a couple. He had 135 fuck off points. Get at plus plus. He was plus 80. That's crazy, man. That doesn't seem real. I know Bobby Clark was plus 79.

Holy. Yeah, no, you got it wrong. Sorry, fellas. That's crazy. Oh, my God. And that was like his last full season pretty much. I don't know, man. Bobby Clark.

I don't know. Dude, every Bobby Orstad is less believable than the last. He was arguably the most. dominant player of all time. Like, there's a lot of Gretzky versus Lemieux. Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm on your side. He just didn't play long enough.

There's the longevity isn't there. Yeah, the forward equivalent of Bobby Orr is probably Mike Bossy. Because a lot of Gretzky's goal records, like OV, if it weren't for injury, Ovi should have been passing Bossy. And also Bobby Hall, but he left for the WHA and also, yuck. What were we talking about? Oh, I don't know. Yes, yes.

Yeah, like if he has the occasional giveaway, cool. We still might feature it if it's hilarious. If it's funny. Yeah. If it's funny and relevant to the story of the game. What if it's just funny? You can show it if it's just funny. But we would also have to mention, oh, and they won.

Hey, I got a question. for you guys. I brought you three teams earlier in this week that, you know, should we be freaking out? I got three more. One of them is the same. The Calgary Flames in four games have scored six goals. Zero on the power play. That's as many goals as Evan Bouchard.

That's right. In five games, the Philadelphia Flyers have scored six goals. in three games, so less games, the devils have scored six goals. Wow. And here's the thing, the devils have allowed 13, the Flyers 19 in two more games,

and the Calgary Flames 23. Devils and Flyers, I had pegged for the playoffs, or at least flyers on the edge of the playoffs, devils, I was like, that's a lot, they should make it. I'm less worried about the Devils. Can we talk a little bit about

how Philadelphia is allowing so many shots per game. Yeah. They're shots against per game. That was their bread and butter last year, as they were great defensively. Yes. Shots against per game,

they are currently on average allowing 36.8. Wow. That's the average through five. Wow, wow, wow. Wow. Who told Joseph Wold to wear 53? I don't know.

I hate that. I don't know what. What does that matter? Because it's ugly. For a goalie? Ew. I don't give a shit, man. I don't know.

I do. Goleys, but whatever the fuck they want. No. You think 37's a good number? The goalie makes the number. Connor Helflbuck had an ugly number until... You're telling me if there was a forward with the number four, it wouldn't bother you? No, I don't really care.

Ew. I don't... Vincent La Cable is you go in jail. I think... Yeah, I don't really... It literally never affected me. So, Devils, it's three games. I don't know.

And I feel like... they're going to win a lot of games chaotically. Yeah. Flames, yeah, you probably hope they're better than that. But at the end of the day, you're rebuilding. The Flyers? Oh, no, no, no, no. It's getting late early.

It's getting late real early. In terms of panic around the league, they're right up at the top of the list. And people really, really don't like Rick Tocke as a coach there. I would fire him just for the sake of, hey, maybe we can turn around the season. Did you get Bruce Gassie in there? I think he's lost it because Steve is right. Like that's the whole thing about what the Flyers were last season is shot suppression.

It's how they went on their run. It was 25.5 shots against per game they finished the season with, which is right up there with the hurricanes, golden night, senators, avalanche, mammoth, stars, lightning. All the best teams in the league, that's what they do. They don't allow a ton of shots on goal. And then this year, to start the season at least, that philosophy has just gone out the window. And whether that's personnel or coaching style, who knows. you need to get these guys playing a completely different way of hockey because whatever you're doing,

they've lost it. And there's a lot of evidence that in the years in Vancouver, when things went off the rails, this is what happened. It started just allowing a whole bunch of shots. And if you look at the stats, those years, they're like 31st or 30th or 30 second during those seasons where things went poorly under Rick Tockeet. And now it seems to be happening again in Philadelphia. So I would move off of this coach as quickly as possible. However much time is reasonable to start a season. This is what I would do. And then bring in somebody else who could just turn this thing around. And Bruce Cassidy would be awesome. Now the- Here's a great suggestion. Here's what management would do.

That's just a younger guy. They were asked last year to start the year, went on a tear in January, made the playoffs and made the second round. If your management, could you not sit on your hands and say, well, maybe we get that again. You could. I don't know if it's a good strategy, Adam. Well, because every time you fire a coach as a general manager, you're the one who looks like shit. Right. Remember? Because you're reporting to somebody. And they said, but wait a second, this person's on a multi-year deal. And you said they were the guy.

You fired Tortorella. You basically back-channeled Rick Talkett out of Vancouver. You said this was the guy. Like all season long, we knew Rick Talkett was going to Philadelphia. Let's be honest. He was coaching the Canucks, but he was gone. We knew. Oh, I don't want to sign an account.

extension. Jim Rutherford's like, we'd love to have him back. And he's like, oh, think about it. Yeah, no. No, he just left. Like, here's the thing. We've talked about how off-season perception changes the moment you hit the ice. The flames, everyone, I think generally likes their direction.

Like, we're young, we're rebuilding. This is what we're doing. It's all on purpose. The worst thing you can do is be bad by accident. The Flyers. Right? Danny Breyer goes out and he offer sheets Leo Carlson. And you go, ah, that's crazy.

Ah! He didn't get him. Danny Breyer goes out there and he makes an offer to Dylan Larkin. Yeah. You didn't get him. He's been swinging and missing a lot. And you got to admire the effort. But season started.

You swung and missed on everything. and your team stinks. Most importantly, your team stinks. It's not about what you did or didn't do. Your team stinks. It's getting late late early in Philly, man. A lot of pressure in Philly. CJ even said, because CJ is usually

understated about certain things. He even said on the show yesterday, he's like, yeah, the pressure is building there. And it's Philly. Do you think they miss Emil Andre? I think the Leafs miss Emil Andre. Yeah, they might, yeah. You know what?

Amil Andre would be awfully good to have right now. Every team who trades. to meel Andre is worse off. Yeah, you're right. There you go. Hayden, I'm waiting on baited breath. I was scrolling Twitter to see if I could find it, but I can't find it. But there was a quote from Rick Talkett back during Pedersen's like incredible 100 plus point season. And he said that PD plays really fast and he'd like him to slow it down a bit. And since then, PD has been a PD. A quote came out. A quote came out. A quote came out.

out a few days ago about talking about Mitchcove and he said the exact same thing about Mitch Cod that he said about Pedersen that he plays too quick and then he should slow it down. I'm like, maybe this guy just doesn't know how to coach these types of players. Not even these types of players. That is not where this league is heading. No. At all. At all. A few years ago, fine. Nope. This is a very fast league now. Yeah. And some of the shot numbers. So this was, quoted by they posted on Twitter, J.C., a Flyers fan, Twitter account. They took a picture of the Sportsnet broadcast. Talk its teams don't shoot is the headline.

Yeah, so on the board they made says, Talk its teams don't shoot. The 2020, 2020, 2021 season, his coyotes ranked 29th in shots per game. 23, 24, the Canucks were 26th. 24, 25, they were 31st. And last season, the Flyers were 25th and 26. And 25, 26, they were 31st. in the league in shots per game.

So if you can't shoot, you're not going to score because you got to shoot to score. Plus, they're allowing a whole bunch of shots this season. So actually, I got the shot suppression numbers wrong. They're actually decent in Vancouver at having their opponent not take a lot of shots. It's just the shots weren't coming. And then now this season, they're not being able to suppress the shots. Plus, they're not getting shots. So everything is terrible.

Like, that's not why you have Jamie Drys. and Trevor Ziegress and Matt Vey Mitchcock and Porter Martone and and and and and that's not why you have those players. I don't think the Flyers are playing Flyer hockey. No. At all. No. And they're playing Rick Tocke at hockey.

Yeah. Yeah. When you got hired, I remember being like, this guy's coaching record is ass. And then he had the one good year and I was like, I guess I'm wrong. And then if you,

you know, go over five years now it's like, well, back to ass again. It's pretty bad. And I think that there is perhaps a mismatch there in what the flyers are and what Brick Tock it is. It looks like right now last year's Leifes. Yeah.

The Leif's last year did not get a lot of shots on goal. And then they're like, okay, but we're going to not allow a lot and win these games, but they're also allowing a lot. Like the Leaves were those shot counters of the Leafs games, they'd be like 40 to 25. And it's really ugly. Who's available? Craig Baroube. Bring him in to just run this hockey. Former Flyer.

And former Flyer coach? No, it would be a disaster because it would just be more of the same. No, it would be. You're right. I'm trying to put somebody. Somebody's going to hire Cassie. Yeah. I'm trying to put the fear of God and insider J money.

No, Tuckett's trying to play this super low event hockey. That worked very successfully last season because they didn't allow a lot of shots. But now it's just disaster. Are we going to regret this in January when they start to go on a heater again? Is he going to make it? I don't know. This is the tricky thing with this season Is like okay

So they relied heavily on shot suppression No one in the league is excelling at that right now And you had Josh Done with that hilarious quote yesterday Where he's like, yeah, I don't know, we're all rusty It's a short and preseason And I'm like, you all ask for this I like it I personally have really liked that's been fun

I don't think he was whining I don't give a kid. No, oh, oh, oh oh oh oh Like Brian Burke was whining He was on a show the other day and he's like, you know, if we, if we hadn't had, if we hadn't had that extra few days at training camp, we wouldn't have, Matthew Kachuk wouldn't have made the team. I'm like, then your staff sucked. Your staff was fucking ass then. Oh, Matthew Kuch. Okay, well, then you should be fired.

And he was an impact player the moment he stepped. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, oh, it was, it was seeing him in a preseason game that convinced you, was it, Brian? No, that means your staff is ass. Your staff sucks. I like the hockey. I think, let him slap it around for the first month. It's pond hockey.

It's fun. They'll round it out by January. Everything will be fine. And all the old heads can chill. I just think, why not throw these guys into something like this? The training camp sucks. It's bad for entertainment. It's financially wasteful.

And okay, so we accept now that October's going to be a wonky month. And then by the time November, December rolls around, we're going to actually start to see some trends. Good hockey is not necessarily best product. Oh, yeah. Well, the 80s. dude. Yeah.

Best product. Horrible games. There's a reason. Horrible. And by the way, was anybody walking around back then going, man,

the Oilers need to trade Grant Fure he led in six last night because everybody else would be like, I'm sorry, but they scored nine. They probably were. I don't think they did.

Well, get Bill Ranford some more starts. God damn it. Everyone get your dad's Twitter from the 80s. Yeah. Oh, do they not put every thought into the world?

I'll throw this one at you. The least went up three nothing yesterday. I knew they, they were giving that lead up. The NHL has, if you don't get five, if you don't get a five, you don't have a shot.

You don't have a shot. The Pittsburgh Penguins gave up five goals on Saturday night after being up five nothing and won. Look at my mood all show. Like, this happens in January. I'm probably freaking out. No, this is fun.

Enjoy this shit. I'm like, I don't know, man. They're five games. This is their first road game. And I think, I think like they overcame a three nothing deficit the game before.

Yeah, and there's enough evidence that like the good teams are still being good. Like Colorado looks more dominant than anybody else in league because they're a good team. Except when they run into the Jets. I think Colorado's fine. Yeah. I'll panic. In like the gold knights are amongst the top of division. Edmonton looks good.

At least look great until Vegas showed up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, listen. Vegas is a better team, man. That's what it is. And we have an interview to get to.

Let's do it. Can you tee it up? Oh, well. Oh, yeah. What are you? What's your problem, Jesse? Cassie Campbell Paskill, here to talk about her new book. Cassie Campbell Paskill joining us on the Steve Dangle podcast for the first time ever, which is kind of cool.

We have met you, worked with you before. Steve worked with you a little bit at SportsNet, but you were up here and he was, you know. And then, uh, the free dinner was great. The free dinner was great. Yeah, yeah, big fan of that. And I think, I think, I. I interviewed you way back in the day for the Toronto Maple Leafs podcast, but I don't expect that you remember any of us.

Jesse, have you run across Cassie Campbell-Paskel ever in your travels? We might have met at the arena or something. I'm not sure. Okay. Yeah. But we're meeting now, so it's all good. I feel like you guys are doing pretty good and I'm just lucky to be here.

So it's all good. You haven't heard of us until this morning, but thank you. Just a girl and memoir, co-written by our friend, Sean Fitzgerald, who we love. Great writer. was released October 6, so it's out and it's, it's out there in the world. And I got to ask, because we have another author sitting next to me right here. What is it like for you finally letting that go? Because they always say with art and with literature, as soon as you release it, it doesn't belong to you anymore.

Yeah. It's like, whoof, you know, I feel like it was a three and a half year process. And Sean asked me to write a book probably 25 years ago. And I, he was the first one. And, you know, I just haven't been ready to write a book until now. And I always remembered that he was the first one to ask me. And I knew that if I ever wrote a book, I would go back and ask him. And ironically, he came back and asked me and it ended up being great timing.

But I don't know about you, Steve, but I felt doing the audio book. I don't know if you did the audio book, but I couldn't even get through the dedication. Like, I'm dedicating it to my parents and my husband and my daughter. And then I have this quote at the book. I started crying doing my first audio. session in front of complete strangers. And I'm like, and then I go to read the prologue and then I start crying again. And then I was like, can we just skip this and go to chapter one?

And then finally I was able to just sort of go through it and go through it. But it's an emotional process. I think when you release it, like the hard work that goes into it. But, you know, in particular for me, this isn't like, oh my God, look at all these things we've done in women's hockey. It's like, this is my life. Here it is. Here's what I went through. Here's my thoughts.

And, uh-oh. I hope everyone likes it, you know? And so I had fun. It was a great process and I'm proud of the book. I'm proud that I'm vulnerable in the book. I'm real in the book because I think in today's world, we need it a lot more of real. I can relate to the difficulty of getting through the emotional parts of the book, especially the audio book. I hope you didn't experience what I did for my second audio book.

On the second day of recording, my car got towed. I had to walk in the rain to go get it. And on day three, I had full-blown COVID. So I sounded rather different toward the end of the book. But, you know, it's interesting. Women's hockey is in, I think, stable and happy place. And there was obviously a lot of tumult that led to us getting here. how did you balance in writing the book and telling your story the struggles that you and the

sport went through and also finding the joy in that experience yeah yeah that whole league thing was a stressor for me for sure and for so many and just when you could see the vision open in front of everyone's eyes and no one seems to see it except you and the players and like the current generation and, you know, of course, not just me, but other people, but the leaks that started and folded and stopped and started and folded and stopped, and the people that were in charge of those leaks, everyone has had a tremendous impact on the game and where it is today. There's no question about it. And of course, there were some turmoil and there was some aggression towards each other at times. But I think we're in the best

place we've ever been and we're supported. Are we out of the woods yet? No. Like, you know, our owner, Mark Walter's amazing and what he's been able to bring to the table, obviously. But, you know, we're selling out some of our buildings and there's great, you know, more infrastructure business-wise and all these things, but we're still not out of the woods. And so we still got to stick together. But the good news now is we have one leak. You know, we have one link that everyone's kind of pushing in the same direction and pulling in the same direction. And we have a tremendous group of staff, not only from the hockey ops and the business departments in the PWHL, but our team staff. and how they care about the game.

And, you know, I think back to the first year, and I'm just part-time, but our full-time employees, how much they were away from home and what they were doing and how they were pushing and making it work. And the staff deserves a ton of credit,

but so do the players. And we ask a lot of the players, we ask them to do a lot because that's the reality that we're in. And they step up time and time again. They sign all the autographs. They're showing up for media days. They're doing the things that we need

to make the PWHL work. And at the same time, they're all getting the most recognition they've probably had over their entire careers with the exception of the few stars and the names that everybody knows. But in our local markets, the players that were our so-called club players, non-national team players, are stars now.

And they're getting recognition and they're showcasing their game. And they're getting better because they can train full time like the national players could do. They don't have to work. And so there's just so many great things. And I sit back and I do everything behind the scenes. I don't need to be the face anymore, which I'm so excited about.

And I do all these little projects behind the scenes. And I love it. And I love watching everything just grow. And everyone's more focus on the players, more focus on their personalities, more focus on their game, on the game of hockey. Our game is finally being covered for hockey. And so I'm excited. And I love where we are. And I love where we've been.

As hard as it was, it's a time. times I love where we've been. And you think of the Cowell League, the first national women's hockey league, the Canadian Women's Hockey League, the PHF, the second national women's hockey league. They all play such an integral role in the PWHL and what is happening today. And we really can't forget that. I feel like this book will be great to just show the future generations and see, like, hey, look how far we've come.

Because hopefully in 15, 10 years or whatever it is, the league just kind of exists and all that stuff is in the past and it's just a regular run league and we just watch it like it's normal hockey and then you can go and you can read your book and be like look at what it took to get to this point and so I hope like everybody within the game is going to going to read it and take that from it yeah I mean I my daughter I'm actually in Ontario for a tournament I live in calgary but my daughter plays u18 triple a and when she was trying out for u15 you 13 or something whatever it was And I remember showing up to the tryouts and I was there. And there was 190 girls trying out for two teams.

Wow. And I was just like, oh, my God. Like we, I barely had 190 players to play against, let alone be on my team, you know. And there's these moments when I get to watch her play. We were in Pittsburgh for a tournament earlier in the year. And the caliber of play, teams from Ottawa, teams from Pittsburgh, you know, teams from all over the U.S., Rochester, all these places. and the caliber of the game at that level is tremendous and way better than when I was playing.

And the fact that, you know, they have access to all of this too. So I get to sort of see it now through her play, you know, but through my eyes. And yeah, the young kids, like they, I'm glad they're going to continue to learn some of the stories. You know, I have a book coming out. Jennifer Boucho has a book coming out. I know there's going to be more and more players that have books come out. And they'll get a chance to read them and hear those stories about the 19. 1990 team and the 1998 Olympic team and the players that are the true pioneers for us.

How do you navigate writing about your past self as your current self? Because, you know, as you have the power of hindsight and you have ideally, you know, a little bit more maturity. Like for me, I looked back at certain bosses I had. And at the time, like as a young man, when they were hard on me, I kind of resented them a bit. But I was able to look back as someone who's older and I was able to actually see the value in the harsh lessons they taught me. Did you have a similar experience with coaches, for example? Yeah. I mean, all my national team coaches for sure, every coach.

I think when they're doing their job, they want you to succeed. seed. They want you to be the best. So they have to challenge you. And of course, there's a certain way to do it and go about it. But, you know, I look back at, you know, Shannon Miller, our 1998 coach in the Olympics, and we lost that year. And there was so much going on around us and that we weren't ready for. And I know for myself, personally, I didn't play well. And, you know, I think she was disappointed in me. There's no question and I don't blame her. In the moment, there were things I felt she could have done differently. In the moment, there were things that I could have done differently and I know that and um you know she I learned a lot that year and I learned a lot about

the importance of being yourself when you know that was a big year of notoriety and growth in the game and everything kind of coming at us from the outside and you've got to remain yourself you've got to be yourself and I learned that through her and and through myself too and the things that I had and then 90 or 2002 Daniel sovijo who I absolutely love you know she changed me from an all-star defenseman to a forward. And I was like, what the, you know what? Like, I don't know if I'm not going to swear on this podcast. Yes, you are. Oh, yeah. With the flip, you know, and I remember I went right at her. And I was, you know, basically said some choice words. And then I had time to reflect. And my first tournament, I went on to lead the team in scoring, you know, and I played with Amanda Benw and Lori

DePuy at the Three Nations. And then, and quickly I learned to be like, okay, she's not challenging me to be a jerk. She's challenging me to make me better. And so, okay, how do I flip the switch? How do I flip the switch? And the moment you look outwards when things aren't going your way, you're in trouble. You have to look inwards. You know, if you're being challenged or things aren't going your way, what is it that I can do to make this situation better? How do I become better? Because if you get focused on the external stuff, you're looking in the wrong direction. And so I've learned that through that experience. And then Mel Davidson, I love her to death. I love how straightforward. She always, always was with us. But there was one time when she kind of separated us between the bubble players

and the rest of the group. And me and an assistant captain were the bubble players at that time. And I just thought there was a better way that she could have gone about it. Having said that, within half an hour, she came to me and said, hey, Cass, so-and-so struggling, we need your help here. And I was the captain of the team. And I could have been like, what do you mean? You just told me I was on the bubble, but I didn't. I knew that I still had to be a leader. I knew that I'm the captain. and I can't dwell on my issues. And so sure enough, that was my thing. I helped to pick that player up.

And in turn, I continue to focus on the inwards rather than projecting my disappointments or my feelings outward. So all three of them were amazing. All three of them have done so much for the game and continue to do so much for the game. But my book is in the present tense. So when you read it, I am in that moment

and to the best of my recollection. And that was Sean Fitzgerald, who you guys, know who was an amazing writer and his idea. And at first I was like, I don't know about this. And then I realized now that it was really the place to be. So it's good on him. You never hear of that. Like that, I've never read a book where it's in the present tense like that. I can't. And I've read a lot of biographies and memoirs and things like that. So it's neat. Now, I want to ask you about your second career, which is in broadcasting.

because not everybody can do this. And frankly, I'll be honest, hockey players generally are not the most charismatic. And it's also, it's not because they're not charismatic, generally speaking in real life. It's because they're taught from a young age, this is how you talk to the media,

be as boring as possible, don't make waves. Like, yeah, absolutely. The whole media training, we'll see this in Toronto, Cassie, all the time. Who was a really big influence on your broadcasting career early on those early hockey night in Canada games that you were doing your first ones? You know, I would say my father-in-law,

my father-in-law is Bernie Pascal, who's a famous broadcaster, did Olympics, Vancouver Canucks. The list goes on and on. I think he did a Canada Cup, 76 Canada Cup. Anyway, my husband, Brad, it's his father, Bernie Pascal. and I he would send me an email after every game the good the bad and the ugly and you know one thing people don't recognize in broadcasting as an athlete is you literally just get thrown into it and no one teaches you anything no one tells you anything like they they just expect you to kind of know how to do it and obviously we didn't go to school or I didn't go to school for it but he would that's the place I knew it was coming from that was goodhearted and good nature and so and that's a how an athlete wants to know. We don't want to know all the warm and fuzzy things we're doing well.

We want to know how we can get better. And so I really appreciated those emails. You know, Ron McLean said something to me that I'll never forget. He said, Cass, always be yourself. Because if you're not, people will see right through it. And that stuck with me. You know, Kelly Rudy and I talk about this story in my book. He sort of initiated me.

He was doing behind the mask in Edmonton. And he brought me into the truck. And I was the reporter for the game. And he had all the guys like chirping each other. and almost got into a fight picking clips for his thing. And I'm like slowly, you know, sneaking into the back corner of the truck thinking, oh, my God, what's happening here? And thinking Kelly's a little bit of a diva.

And sure enough, it ended up to be a joke and he's a nice person. And the thing about Kelly Rudy and I is that we can send each other texts every once in a while out of the blue. And they come at the perfect time. For some reason, we just know that so-and-so and he or me needs a little pick-me-up. And so we have just a great friendship and his beautiful. wife, Dawn and his beautiful family. But so many people, you guys, the players would tell me everything. The players watched me play.

Coaches would tell me everything. G.N.s would tell me everything. I remember Daryl Sutter sat with me in the stands, my very first game on Hockey Nank, Canada for the two pregame skates. And, like, I was really treated like a hockey person the whole time from inside the game. Outside treated me a little bit differently. But inside the game, I was so fortunate how well, everyone treated me and respected me.

And that goes a long way. And it helped me get the stories and the things that I needed as I was growing as a broadcaster. And now at ESPN. Come on. Worldwide leader in sports. How crazy is that? This girl from Canada. Just a girl.

Just this girl from Bramton. Now at ESPN. So yeah. And you have this neat little side hustle. You're on the Hockey Hall of Fame selection committee. Side hustle. A little. I know it's it's very secretive and hush and we're not allowed to know anything but what can you tell us

about being on the Hockey Hall of Fame selection committee without any of us getting arrested? Yeah, I well not much but I will say this. It's a great process and I didn't know much but I think I've been on there for seven or eight years now. I'm not sure but I remember when I first walked into the room and at that time I was the only woman. We have Cammy Granado now. but I remember sort of, oh God, you know, what's it going to be like when I walk into that room? And again, the guys got up. Welcome, Cassie shook my hand. You know, some of them that I've known for a long time, they actually gave me a hug.

And that first experience, though, it's like, wow, you're sitting in that room and in the hall. And you're just like, holy smokes, this is like the who's who of hockey. And but I will say this, the process is great. And I think it's gotten even better. You know, we've obviously made little tweets and changes every year to make it better. But it's everyone gets a chance to speak and to be honest and put their candidates forward if they so choose. And just it's been it's been a really cool experience for me. And, you know, you really can't talk about it.

And in fairness, you know, people think we can't talk about it because we we can't talk about it because we don't for people. People think, oh, so-and-so should be nominating, so-and-so. And then what if that person is not nominated? And then we embarrass that person. So it's all about protecting the legends of the game, in my opinion, why it's so hush, hush, and out of respect for legends of the game and for people in the game. So I think the confidentiality part is more about not protecting us in the room. It's about protecting people outside the room.

And that's something I respect dearly, but it's really been a great and fun process. And I think we do things the right way. So what's left for you to do in your life? Like what are you? What's still burning you? Like, I need more vacation. Okay,

more vacation. Like, what is what? I know that you are, you know, fiercely competitive hockey player. Uh, and then in broadcasting,

uh, it is a competitive industry, even if you're just competing with yourself trying to make your next break in your story or whatever, but what other things are you like, God, I just really would one day I'm going to tackle that to. I'll be honest today I want to win a Walter Cup.

You know, I work for the league now and I was with our national program, not this past Olympic cycle, but this cycle before and, you know, got to go back as a management role and win. And I loved it. And then when I joined the league, of course, I'm doing league stuff and I'm so excited about doing things that help it make it grow. But I, you know, I really want to win a Walter Cup. I mean, obviously that's something I haven't been able to do.

And I'd love to be part of a team one day and do that. And whether it's a coaching role or a management role, I don't know. But I think that's something. And, you know, for me, I want to travel. I'm in a situation now where I've pulled back on my broadcasting career to do a little bit less, to be home more with my, you know, be more present with my almost 16-year-old daughter. And then my husband works for the flame. So getting to more of those games if I can.

And that has been the world of wonder for me. because probably about five years ago I was close to being pretty burnt out. So just taking a step back has been really good. But I think down the road I want to win a Walter Cup. And I love winning. Like I love winning. And, you know, I've been asked to be involved in NHL teams a few times before

and it just wasn't the right fit, you know, balancing our family life with my husband being, you know, the vice president hockey house with the Calgary Frames. And then if I was to do something like that with another team, It just wasn't a good fit for us, but I do want to win a Walter Cup. I think that's definitely something that's on the radar, I hope. And I know how much work that would take, but I think that's maybe another chapter for me that I hopefully get to write. Last question, and it just popped into my head.

That was supposed to be the last question. It was a beautiful answer, but I'm going to wreck it with one more. I'm a former resident of Calgary. You are a current resident of Calgary. that's there's something about that city that's a little special. And if you've never been before, and it's a shame it's so expensive to travel within Canada because many Canadians have never seen the mountains,

which is outrageous. I always loved filling up my gas tank and it'd be the middle of winter. And I was just looking at mountains. There's something really cool about that. Tell me a little bit about your life out there and why you've loved it and stayed. Well, I moved out there to,

train in 2000, then moved back to win a national championship with the Toronto Arrows, and then move back permanently. And I was dating my now husband at the time. But I needed to change my game too. And out there, the program was more focused on fitness and different things. And that was a big part of what I needed to change in my game. So I moved back out there and it happened my personal life. It worked out, which is good. But it's to me, I love hiking. I love golfing, you know, the mountains out there, whether it's winter or spring or fall or summer. I miss the red leaves from Ontario. You don't get the red leaves out there, but it's a slower, it's a big city that has a small town feel to it. It's a little bit of a slower pace. There's traffic, but not like here

where I am in Toronto right now. And I love the people. You know, I think Alberta gets a bad rap sometimes, especially right now political wise, but I love the people. You know, people let people in and merge lanes and they, you know, wave and say thank you. And it's just, I don't know, it's a different way of life. And it's, it's the only life my daughter's known. And we're there until my husband, you know, whatever happens with him with the flames, we're going to stay in Calgary. We love it. And then whatever happens him, if, you know, he's in year 13, which is incredible in an NHL career. So if he gets fired, we're going to maybe look somewhere else. But right now we love it there and we're thankful and grateful for everyone and our friends and our community.

And it's a really cool place to live. We're looking forward to the Red Mile being activated again soon. Oh, gosh, me too. I don't know about Sue. Yeah, soonish. And the new arena is going to be cool too. Yes, the vision's there. Cassie Campbell, Pascal.

The book is out now. You can get it on audiobook. I'm so glad you did the audiobook because that's how so many of us read, or at least that's how I do it. Just a Girl, A Memoir. Cassie Campbell, Pascal and Sean Fitzgerald. Thank you so much for your time today. Please don't be a stranger.

Yeah, have me on any time, boys. This is really fun. And I've always wanted to do that thing that you used to do, Stephen, in your basement with all the things around you and stuff. And you get in and you get it all close and stuff like that. So I always love it. You want to join it for an LFR sometime? You should see.

Yeah, I can do it. I can definitely do it. The difference is all the stuff on the wall will actually be like your gear. Yeah. Yeah, we could do that. A couple of gold medals in there. Can I ask a quick question? Where do you?

Yeah. Where do you, you're so decorated. Like you look at just all the trophies and everything you want. Do you have like a shrine in your house where all this stuff lives? Like candles under it? No. No. No, it's kind of my, you know, if I can. So my daughter was in kindergarten and her teacher told her.

My daughter's in grade 11. Her teacher said, you know, your mom was an Olympic champion. So she came home and she's like, mom, did you win some kind of medals or something? and I said, yeah, I did. And so I pulled them out of a bag, and I hadn't pulled them out for like five years. And they were kind of a little disheveled and dirty, and I needed to get them cleaned.

And she says, oh, that's it. That was it. She goes to get a snack. And it's like, I'm no big deal around my house at all. So they're in a beautiful leather. We got them in Salt Lake City. We got these beautiful cases to put a metal in, and then a leather bag.

And mine are all wrapped in the washcloths and surround. and wrap in this leather bag. And yeah, there's not much when you come into our house. You can go to the basement and find a few things and a few things in my office. But there's not much there that really kind of tells you our hockey life, my husband and my hockey life. And so we're just pretty normal and whatever. I don't know.

Is the 98 one like under a couch somewhere? You don't want to look at that one. Do you know, it's funny. You say that that's the most important one to me. That's the one that I think it's the most beautiful. It's the wrong color, of course. it's beautiful. And I learned the most about myself that year, the good, the bad, and the ugly. And I think that 11 or 12 of us who went on to win in Salt Lake would not have won in Salt Lake had it not been for the loss in 98.

So that medal, I think, it has the most importance, even though it was totally the wrong color. Cassie Campbell, Pascall, great to have you on. Thank you so much. Okay, cheers to you guys. Appreciate you all. and at Jesse Blake.