The Steve Dangle Podcast - Request Denied | September 18, 2026

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Starting point is 00:01:12 Let's go! Just a week away from the course. and Clubhouse Steve, Jesse, myself, hanging out and also most of the SDPN team is going to be there too because they always come. It's our fourth annual and

Starting point is 00:01:27 the course and Clubhouse has incredible elevated pub food. It is St. Catherine's hub for golf in the winter. And you know what I love about simulators? They always make you feel just a little bit better about your golf game. And for me, I need it. Oh, same. I'm bad. You know what I'm looking forward to?

Starting point is 00:01:43 I'm every time We do the course in Clubhouse. I'm sore for several days. Yep. Every time. Because you're swinging that club. Actually, you're like throwing the golf balls. Which you're not supposed to do.

Starting point is 00:01:58 You're not supposed to do that. That is a tradition. We always have our who can throw the golf ball the furthest at the simulator. Yeah. And I'm either not going to do that anymore or warm up. Or get really into it and just throw it. Or just friggin' throw.

Starting point is 00:02:15 Oh, wait, dude, I'm still, like, I'm still tight under here. My son the other day was like, I want to go shoot hoops, and he said it in those words. So it was like, okay, there. Friggin. What is he? I don't, what content is he? He's a rapper from 1989. What kid at school said something, and he picked it up?

Starting point is 00:02:35 That's what I assume. I would love to know. Friggin Hannibal Burris, go to the court and shoot some hoop. Do do do do do do. And naturally, I'm his dad, so he's like telling me to do feats of strength. So he's like, heave this afcourt shot. And I did it about 50 times. And on the walk home, I was like, this is going to hurt.

Starting point is 00:02:59 Did you make one? Buddy, of course it does. So you can buy your tickets to the courts and balls. He told me I'm going to get drafted by LeBron James because he doesn't know how basketball works. Okay. Hey, he knows that a draft exists, though. That's good. I'm going to get drafted by LeBron James.

Starting point is 00:03:15 I'm actually pretty impressed. Yeah. I'm six years old. I like that. Okay. Course and clubhouse tickets, guys. Going to be in the description right now. Get yours.

Starting point is 00:03:24 I actually don't even know. I don't know if we are sold out yet or not. I have not got an update on that. We're getting there. Friking click the stuff. Click it. Now, I want to start the show with the Red Wings who we, I tried to fit into the last show, but we just couldn't.

Starting point is 00:03:38 And it worked out to be okay because there was a Chris Illage interview that nobody is talking about the Jesse found. Don't say. What? What? The people in Detroit are talking about. They are. The Wingwheel podcast, shout out them, they're talking about it.

Starting point is 00:03:54 Okay. The radio stations in Detroit, they are talking about it. I guess nobody else outside of Detroit is talking about it. And we should be. We should be. But like September is honestly busier than October. It can be. The lead up to the games is how could you possibly consume all this?

Starting point is 00:04:11 information. Yeah, it's because everybody gets back from vacation. Now, it starts with Sean Horcoff being named interim general manager of the Red Wings. And CJ said on the CJ show earlier this week that that interim tag could last all season long, which to me just makes you the general manager. Oh, yeah. No, Adam, you're right. So is he allowed to make trades and long-term signing? According to reporter Chris, not reported Chris, because we don't, we need to make the distinction. Of note, Sean Horcough being named interim GM in Detroit, he's been given the greenlight to negotiate contracts. Wow. Which is notable because of RFA Simon Evanston and pending UFA Alex de Brinkat, among others.

Starting point is 00:04:51 Those names will come up in the interview. It's possible Horikoff keeps the interim tag all season long. Now, what's hilarious about this is we were told that Steve Eiserman was going to keep running things day to day until a new GM was found. And then we found out Sean Horcoff was actually the one. running things day to day. But we also found out that he was not able to make trades or signings, which is why Patrick Kane is no longer there. They apparently had a deal in place.

Starting point is 00:05:18 Patrick Kane talked about it this summer or they were working towards one. Steve Eisenman's let go and they're gone. And Detroit, the Red Wings, do basically nothing this offseason. So I haven't put enough thought into this. That is an utterly childish way of doing business. and the Illich family has been involved in that business for an extremely long time. These are not stupid people and these are not stupid businessmen. What were they thinking?

Starting point is 00:05:48 Well, I know, you'll get to find out. I know ideally you would give these responsibilities to whoever is the new person in church. You didn't find them. So you're just not going to conduct any business. You're not going to conduct a shred of business. until you get the person that you don't find. Well, I remember I said, I was like July 15th, you've already lost out on all the talent

Starting point is 00:06:14 that could have been available for you to run your team. When you fire- Simon Effortson. Well, and- He's on your team! It's pretty clear that they didn't expect to fire Steve Eisner. And then they decided to. Right.

Starting point is 00:06:26 Okay, great. But then you did. And then you have two months, approximately, to Sean Horka? So was the plan the entire time to get nothing done for two months? That you have to have a contingency there. So Chris Illich's statement, Steve and Jesse,

Starting point is 00:06:48 in part says, as our process continues to find the best possible leader for the Red Wings hockey ops, I'm appreciative to Sean for stepping up and serve in this capacity, his knowledge of our organization, and range of experience allows us to operate with a clear decision maker in place for the season ahead. Not for this summer, though. while maintaining our commitment to carry out a thorough methodical search process on our own timeline.

Starting point is 00:07:12 Sean has my complete support and the authority to make decisions in the best interests of our organization. There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with being thorough. But in the interim, ironically, you have to conduct business. And for two months, they didn't have that person. That's crazy. Yes. Now, I think if they were going to do this,

Starting point is 00:07:37 that should have been the statement July 15th, nobody has a problem. But I don't think Chris Illidge understands that, you know, and this interview of his happened September 15th, so it was like literally two months to the day that he fired Eisenman. Kind of perfect timing for it to come out.

Starting point is 00:07:53 I don't think he understands the window they just missed. This is a team with 92 points last year, And as much as we sort of, and I sort of, I told you so with this team in March, four marches in a row, nobody could have guessed that. And I think we have to remember that 92 points is pretty close to the playoffs. If they made it, it really wouldn't be,

Starting point is 00:08:16 it'd be a bit of a surprise, but it wouldn't be shocking. And I would also add to that, Steve, guys, like this summer, had they really had their plans in place, and obviously the Larkin situation, they could have attracted some serious talent there. Sure.

Starting point is 00:08:30 a breath away from the playoffs. Why can't they win? And the Atlantic Division went through an enormous shift last year. It's hockey town. Yeah. Florida and Toronto missed. Montreal and Buffalo got in. Like it's a whole different world,

Starting point is 00:08:42 the Atlantic Division than it was two years ago. The Atlantic's funny because like it's such a strong division that anyone can make the playoffs, which sounds counterintuitive. But like there, it's not like the central or Pacific like have and have nots. Like a hot week. I think that's my first use of hot week at the season. It won't be the last.

Starting point is 00:09:04 But a hot week gets you into the playoffs and a cold one gets you out. It's tight. You don't even have to be one of the top three teams. You just need to be hot at the right time. And there you are. Vegas winning the division. Now, this interview, again, just a big shout out to who do we have it from here, Jesse? Bob Wojnowski of the Detroit News is the one.

Starting point is 00:09:30 who conducted this interview with Chris Illich. They sat down for an exclusive chat for, I think it was 45 minutes. And Bob transcripted the whole thing, just verbatim into the Detroit News, and go click the link, buy the little subscription thing so you can read it and get everything out of this interview because it is an absolute doozy. So here are 10 of the best questions and answers. Okay. So the first one from Wojo, as they call them, which I think is a great nickname. by the way. Since last season ended,

Starting point is 00:10:02 a lot has happened. Steve Eisenman's removal, Dylan Larkin's trade request, without many answers. Fans and media have complained the Red Wings are in disarray with no coherent plan. What is your response to that?

Starting point is 00:10:16 Give me a corporate response to that, Steve. I have a plan. It is a good plan. Tahiti, Fiji. We're going to be harvesting mangoes. I'm doing a Dutch van der Leyen impression, by the way. Some

Starting point is 00:10:34 people don't know that game. A corporate friggin We have a direction. We're keeping it in the house. I think you can just stop right there. Yeah. You ready? Okay. So we have concepts of a plan? The answer says, I would say first and foremost, I have a clear vision

Starting point is 00:10:49 and I know exactly where I plan to take our organization. So you were not wrong. Did your girlfriend go to a different school also? Is the plan in the room with us? The plan is walking around, knocking around his skull right now. And he said, I'm very confident we're going to find an excellent leader to help us get there. I believe the future of the Red Wings is exceedingly bright. That's how I would respond.

Starting point is 00:11:15 Hey, so you got a plan? I got a plan. Can you tell me the plan? Well, I got a great plan. That is a response. And this organization, the future is looking pretty good. How? I think if you try to go on a dinner date with Chris Iledge, you'd starve.

Starting point is 00:11:35 Yeah. Yeah. Why? Just because you, well, I mean, they order a little Caesar. It should be they're very hot and ready. At some point, we need to get in the car and go somewhere. Or make a decision on what we're ordering. Well, you know, we could drive.

Starting point is 00:11:47 We could order. Chris, where are we eating? Our evening plans look extremely bright. I think it's going to be delicious. I have a clear vision for them. I have a clear vision. Great. What restaurant do you envision us eating at?

Starting point is 00:12:07 Second question. Only the second one. You're using a search firm in the hiring process. Will interviews continue concurrently? Or is it his job for now and you'll revisit later, meaning Sean Horcoff? I'll make the hire when I find the right leader, specifically an innovative decision maker who can build championship caliber

Starting point is 00:12:26 organizations. It could happen during the season. it could happen after the season. We're not going to make arbitrary decisions. The Red Wings deserve this level of diligence and excellence. When you go back in history, innovation has played a central role in the Red Wing Stanley Cups. The production line was a tremendous innovation in its time mixing Sid Abel's playmaking, Ted Lindsay's checking and grit and Gordy House generational blend of skill and physicality.

Starting point is 00:12:51 Same goes for the Russian five, the left wing lock, drafting behind the iron curtain and redefining a late-round European scout. Go ahead. I mean, it's a combination of Bob Wojniewski becoming the first person to ever interview an insufferable LinkedIn post. And Chris Illich just trying to feed one of the most intelligent, intelligent fan bases out there, member berries. Yes. They're not interested in member berries.

Starting point is 00:13:19 They are interested in please win anything. So I had done a breakdown of the interview and like a lot of these questions on a separate video. And on this one, where he brings up that line, it's a line for anybody who probably definitely listening to this wasn't around, that's a line from like the 40s. Yeah. The Detroit Red Wings of like 40 million years ago. Sid Abel. This isn't this isn't anything that's relevant to the franchise today. And you're throwing something out that's so old just to be like, you know what? That works. Man, man, that innovator. line. And it just, it just doesn't apply to anything we're talking about. It's like, is the new

Starting point is 00:14:04 innovation just not having anyone in charge? Could you imagine if Jim Hiller went up to the podium and you asked him about McKenna and he's like, well, Babe Die. He played really well. What is Chris he was talking about? Charlie Conacher. Sure. Like, it's, it's like you asking a car company about how they're going to plan to move to electric vehicles and they start telling you about how they invented windshield wipers. Like it's, it's that kind of, that's an insane response. Right.

Starting point is 00:14:33 That's an insane response. Hey, like we've always, we've always innovated. Therefore, it's a part of our DNA, except for the last 10 years, don't even pay attention to that. What, what, uh, kind of mileage am I going to get out of this car? Let me tell you about the invention of the tire.

Starting point is 00:14:49 Right. In 1947, when Tommy Ivan replaced Jack Adams as head coach of the Red Wings, he put Gordy Howe, Ted Lindsay, and Sid Abel together. That's what he's referencing. Ted Bill, the 2027 Red Wings. He wants you to know that Gordy Howe, Ted Lindsay, and Sid Abel in 1947 were a great hockey line. Sid Abel was born seven years before Queen Elizabeth II.

Starting point is 00:15:19 Who's dead, by the way? That is like, I understand. But what are we doing? This is your, this is an owner trying to hit the word count. Oh yeah. Come on. Oh, yeah. Okay, next question.

Starting point is 00:15:36 Your team has been in a swirl of rumors for months. Reportedly some interviews were requested and then not followed through on. And Tiger's GM Jeff Greenberg was discussed, then removed himself from consideration. And the answer is, I would say the interest and response has been phenomenal. It really reinforced my belief that this is the best job in hockey. We're being very selective and we're focused on getting it right. Christopher. Next question.

Starting point is 00:16:05 To be clear. So Bob does a great job in this interview. His questions are very pointed. And that's why we're only taking a bit of it because it is behind a paywall. You deserve to have your journalism paid for. But we're helping promote Bob. So you guys will go and get this. This is amazing.

Starting point is 00:16:21 To be clear. Have you requested permission? to speak to people on other teams and how many have been interviewed. What do you think the answer is here, Steve? Just give me a guess. Of course, in process, as important as this one, you review all possibilities at your disposal.

Starting point is 00:16:42 That's good. Very good. That's very good, Steve. Well done. Not dissimilar. I can't give you details on numbers, and I can't be specific. But whoever we've been granted permission to speak to,

Starting point is 00:16:54 we have spoken to. No shortage of candidates. Yeah. No, I was pretty close. No. Very slyly doesn't say that like we didn't formally interview them, but we talked to them, which could be anything.

Starting point is 00:17:09 That could have been they sent a text message. Yeah. He left the door open for not technically lying. Yeah. When's your birthday? Okay. Next question. Chris, one day the both of us will die.

Starting point is 00:17:23 we're both wasting our time with this interview. Can you please give me an answer on anything? Well, you know, in the beginning, Adam and Eve. Holy shit, Chris. Yep. Okay. So, again, I'm pulling from different parts of this interview, so it's not always going to make concurrent sense, but those two questions went together.

Starting point is 00:17:50 Now, are you skipping over the parts and make him sound like that? like he knows what he's doing. Wojo, no. Wojo says, frankly, I don't think Wings fans have the patience to stomach a rebalt. That's incredibly ignorant and wrong. I think actually the interviewer's wrong there.

Starting point is 00:18:06 I think they absolutely would. Yeah. Oh, that was the interviewer. Yeah, that was the interviewer. I think he's wrong. I think that they could, but you'd have to hang on to like Moritz and Lucas and Simon Edmondson and stuff like that.

Starting point is 00:18:20 Here's where he's right. They would have had a much easier your time stomacking it several years ago. Yes. And they've been in the mushy middle for a very long time. Yes. So the answer to that is I understand the frustration and I share it. And I am committed to building a championship level organization.

Starting point is 00:18:37 I have an assessment. You probably have an assessment. Fans probably have an assessment. I'm not sure how much of any of that matters. It's really going to be the assessment of our new leader. I actually thought, Chris, So let's do a good job on that question. I don't understand the answer.

Starting point is 00:18:55 So you can give you, tell me why you think it's a good job. That should be your role, that you leave it up to the guy you put in charge. Okay. You hire somebody. He is going to be in charge of determining whether or not this team should go into a rebuild or if we should content. Good answer. I think that is the smart thing to say. Yes.

Starting point is 00:19:15 Where I don't like it is I don't believe him. I don't think with the way. I don't think Eisenman was given. full range. With the way that the Illich family runs this team, I do not believe him that this next person will have full control to just dip this team into another rebuild

Starting point is 00:19:32 or build them back up. I think there will be guidance from Mr. Illich on what direction to take this team and that his assessment will actually play heavy into the direction of the team. So he said the right thing. Do I believe the words this time? No. Okay.

Starting point is 00:19:48 The season ended on April 15th and Isman was moved from GM to an advisory roll three months later on July 15th. Why the long delay? Ah. Now we're getting in the meat. Well, on January 26, 2026.

Starting point is 00:20:06 Okay. Which is a full four months before that. That is prior to the Olympics. The Detroit Red Wings had the fourth best record in the NHL. They sure did. And making a change was not on my radar

Starting point is 00:20:20 whatsoever. After the team slide through the spring, we started studying potential root causes, and I wanted to be comprehensive. So we executed an organizational performance review in each area. And while it was apparent Steve had significantly improved the organization from what he took over, it also was apparent that the opportunity for the Red Wings to bring a new leadership, sorry, there was an opportunity for the Red Wings to bring a new leadership to grab the baton. And then Chris Illich said, this is my first year ever in hockey. I have no idea how the hockey calendar works and that you can't wait till July to fire somebody.

Starting point is 00:20:56 Yes. Like middle of July. If you are, if you see the Red Wings fail and miss the playoffs after being in first in the Atlantic and fourth in the league and then it's April. Yep. You have to act on the schedule that has been there for the last 40 years of the NHL in that we hire somebody in this window from the end of the season to the draft. You don't have time to waste and he wasted a whole bunch of time.

Starting point is 00:21:18 Well, there's a second part to this answer. See, after these determinations, we were beyond the traditional GM recruitment window. The draft and the free agency were approaching. And the preparation was done by Steve and his staff. So I waited until those two events had happened to let Steve know that I was going to make a leadership change. He sees what's happening in the league and he completely understood very selflessly, I might add, and said that he wanted to do whatever was best for the Detroit Red Wings. and I'm grateful he'll stay with us in an advisory role.

Starting point is 00:21:53 That's a lot of words for I blew it. Yeah, he said basically that my leadership review took too long. Yep. Or no, it took as long as it needed to, despite what was good for the organization. Which was too long. Yes. It's just so hard, like using his words, but then also using the evidence of our eyes and ears. Like, I can't, I don't know if he took.

Starting point is 00:22:19 too long to assess the organization, or if when they moved Steve Eisenman around the organization, fired, but moved them around the organization, they made an emotional decision. You know what I mean? Because we all at the time, if you go back, we're like, because that's when the Dylan Larkin stuff came to a head. And we were like, oh, okay, well, that's that then. Like this was the final straw. So that's why I have a hard time with the, well, you know, we spent a long time. Maybe you did. But ultimately, your final decision left the organization pissing into the wind. I actually very much agree with you in that I don't take that answer at face value. No. They're 100%. I think once the Larkin trade request happened and it was very known that Larkin does not like Steve Iriseman, they're like,

Starting point is 00:23:14 okay, we can't continue with Eisenman. Let's move on. I don't think the whole time he was thinking I'm getting rid of CECY. I think if the Larkin trade request doesn't happen, Eiserman still the president, or GM, president of hockey operations, I should say. And I don't believe him that they were looking into this and they determined that. No, you reacted. And today, the guy in charge of the Red Wings is someone who was there the whole time.

Starting point is 00:23:37 Yep. He was part of the organization. He was an assistant GM nine months ago, you know, when things started to fall off the rails. and for the last two months he had absolutely no agency to do anything but show up to meetings. Fellas.

Starting point is 00:23:55 It's bad, dude. Yeah. Now I look at the next answer, you have many former wings in the organization like Chris Draper, Nicholas Lidstrom, Kirk Maltby and others. Do they have a role going forward and how long will Eiserman be in his role?

Starting point is 00:24:10 Steve will be in his role as long as he wants to be in his role. I'd love for him to stay and see this through. And yes, players as a part of our organization. I would say that our next president of hockey operations is going to determine the staff and execute the vision and plan. As I do with every single one of my sports leaders, and I have since day one in my role,

Starting point is 00:24:28 I give them complete autonomy and authority to make the decisions necessary. And I hope that that's true. I don't know that that's true. I've never heard one way or the other if that's true, but I hope that's true. I hope he means that. Eisenman having his job until he wants it is psychotic. Well, I get what he's saying from like, if he's just an advisor, like, just, you know, you want to keep the legends around and this is awkward. Let's be honest, this is awkward. We've forecasted this for years. You can't fire Steve Eisenman. The Red Wings, the Lightning didn't, but they could have.

Starting point is 00:25:04 Absolutely could have fired Steve Eisenman. They couldn't because he was doing an incredible job. But like, what is Steve Eisenman to the Tampa Bay Lightning? You know what I mean? He's just a hockey legend who happens to be in that market, but he's not their hockey legend. Like when the Leafs hired Matt Sundeen recently, I was like, if you make me resent Matt Sundeen one day, I'm going to be so mad. I'm going to be so, so mad.

Starting point is 00:25:32 And listen, you're always, Red Wings fans are always going to have their memories of him as a player. I assume you look at him a little differently than you did before he got this job. You know? So he's basically going, listen, I'm not firing the guy. Yeah. I hope that answer is him doing Iserman a favor by being nice to him in public. You know, because I feel like this is what you should say.

Starting point is 00:25:57 And like, I hope in reality that like they're like, well, Eisenman will end up on another staff. Yeah. He will. Yeah. I mean, that is the right thing to say to a legend to the city. I can't imagine Steve Eisenman wants to spend the rest of his life going, maybe they'll call me today. Yeah. I just don't think that that's.

Starting point is 00:26:13 It can't be reality for Steve Eisenman. No. It's what, like, it should just be said. What a shame. Yes. Like, what a shame? I've been, I've been hearing things for years that the,

Starting point is 00:26:25 the Illich family were pressuring Red Wings management to be better quicker. And that explains some of the weird signings of the Justin Hall, the JT. Comfer. Obviously, DeBrinCat and Kane worked out very, very well for them. They averaged a bad UFA signing per summer. Yes. or at least a mid one,

Starting point is 00:26:44 nothing that made an appreciable difference. Mid is maybe better. Yeah, because I don't think J.T. Comfer's bad. I just think he's not moving the needle for you. No, every July, they'd sign someone and you go, oh. That's a little too much and a little too long and okay. And I also don't think it does anything.

Starting point is 00:27:01 Yeah. All right. The Ben Chirot thing for years and, you know, okay. I get that he's tough and you want him for the playoffs, but you kind of have to get there first. Now, three more questions. First one. Oh, actually, you already did that one.

Starting point is 00:27:15 So two more questions. On the season starting October 2nd, Larkin says he will show up when training camp opens this Thursday. He's injured, but he was there. So this was conducted before the injury came out. But without the captain's C, with removing the C, sorry, was removing the C his decision or to the teams, will you seek a trade or could he be here all year? Chris Illidge says, yes, he could be here all year. As it relates to the captaincy, we've communicated as a friend of office directly with Dylan on the topic. And I'm going to leave it at that.

Starting point is 00:27:48 As far as future captaincy, I think that's going to rest with our new president of hockey ops. We'll see how that plays out. So they stripped him. They stripped him. He's being nice, but they stripped him. And you know what? I'll be honest. I think it was Frank Servali.

Starting point is 00:28:01 Like, why would you do that? I'm like, you strip that captaincy. You're not going to be the captain of my team after you've requested a tradeout. Sorry. Can I acknowledge the elephant in the room that Chris Eulich keeps deferring to a hypothetical person? What do you mean? Yeah, he keeps saying, well, I'll let the ghost in the room handle that. Listen, that's up to the president of hockey ops who is, um, oh, we don't have one.

Starting point is 00:28:27 He is deferring answers to a human being that does not exist. Which is the whole problem. I'm going to go back to my criticism from the first friggin answer. Chris. Do you want to hear him defer again? That's very funny. Yes. To no one.

Starting point is 00:28:41 What about other issues such as contract extensions for Simon Evanson and Alex DeBrinCat, which are due and overdue? Yeah. I think that's a great question for Sean. Sean has a birth certificate and driver's license. That's true. That's okay. Yeah? That is a job for man with a job.

Starting point is 00:29:04 I'm okay with that. All this other shit about, oh, well, that's up to our person we don't have. Chris, that's the problem. You don't have them. I think that's a great question for Sean, certainly on Edvinson. I know Sean wants to get him signed, get him on the roster to start the season. We'd love to have Alex to bring Kat back. He's not only a phenomenal player, but he's a wonderful person and a great competitor.

Starting point is 00:29:27 Great, good, great. Last question, it's been a long unsettling summer. No GM, no lark and trade. Many of the hockey world have been mocking the wings. assume you've heard the noise. This is where he takes a shot at us, you see. And the winged wheel guys, but mostly them. If he uses the word, I think he's going to use.

Starting point is 00:29:47 No, no, he doesn't. He says, I think a lot of it is just talking heads. Oh, that's me. Right here. I'm literally a head that's talking. That's right. Me too. I actually have never met anything else that talks.

Starting point is 00:30:02 If I'm being honest. Like most of the talking I've done in my life, I think 100% of it actually came from ahead. Ah, it's just the talking turnips. Yeah. Anyway, to be frank, inside the organization, things are operating perfectly well. It's been an amusement.

Starting point is 00:30:19 Sorry, it's a bit of amusement to hear and look at some of that stuff. You know, halfway through the season, we had the fourth best record in the league. Something happened and we took a serious slide. We have some talent. We have some young players coming in. We've made some additions. I'm not going to predict how the team will do, but I wouldn't sleep on them.

Starting point is 00:30:40 If they're motivated, and I think they are, they can make some noise. What additions? Who and when? Some. Steve, fuck is wrong with you. Some. Was the follow-up question, who? They made some fucking additions.

Starting point is 00:30:56 What's your problem? They get surprised. I'm pretty sure Victor Arvinson? They did get Victor Arvinson. And I think that was, I think that was an Eisenman hire. Whoa. So, oh. Oh, so like a guy.

Starting point is 00:31:09 Yeah. Like a guy. And Justin Falk, they traded for at the deadline last year. Wasn't that two first round picks? One. One, okay. Which was bad enough. Unprotected.

Starting point is 00:31:21 We can speak to that. Again, like I've said this, Lee fans learned this lesson hard. We learned this lesson the hard way last year. a leader that has gone stale is better than no leader at all. Mm-hmm. Right? We've always, you know,

Starting point is 00:31:42 we defer back to that legendary Canucks Army article about Dave Nona's versus a potato. The potato won, by the way. The potato won. In this case, the potato did not win. Right. So like Brad Trilliving, potato Keith Pelly.

Starting point is 00:31:59 Right. That system didn't work. It was way better. living Brendan Shanahan, Keith Pelley. Brendan Shanahan had his faults, but you do have to hand it to him. He was better than a potato. Yes, without question.

Starting point is 00:32:15 He was potato plus, at least. Oh, he's plus a fourth. $12.99 a month. That's right. Oh, my God. That's on top of the regular. That's right. Yeah, that's just not.

Starting point is 00:32:27 Hey, but at least you get to watch the sports you like. I'd subscribe. At this point, what's, what's, listen. They have not thrived with a potato at the helm. Uh-huh. The Steve Dangal podcast, live next Tuesday night from 7 to 9 for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Road Hockey Event Field by Longos. So we're doing a bit of a show. And we want to raise money.

Starting point is 00:32:53 And all the super chats are going to go to charity. And we're all kind of excited about that. They're trying to hit $4 million raise. It's the biggest outdoor road hockey event. in the world, and we're so pumped to be a part of it. Can I announce two things? Please. I don't think you've mentioned on any of these announcements.

Starting point is 00:33:09 Announced them. Live show. One, special guest, Pavel Barber. Hell yeah. Oh! You're going to come by and hang out and maybe do something that you can win stuff. Maybe that thing you could win second announcement is a signed Austin Matthews jersey. Oh, baby.

Starting point is 00:33:23 Tune in. Maybe you get your hands on a signed Austin Matthews jersey. Maybe Pavel Barber comes by and does tricks on Steve's head. On his head. No. He does stuff. in here and it's crazy and they're trick shots. Maybe not on Steve's head.

Starting point is 00:33:36 Maybe. I'll help however I can. Every shot take and save, made, and dollar raise for the PMCF road hockey event, including on the stream, supports three priority areas that the Princess Margaret believe are the key thing when it comes to treating cancer because this is a really special organization. It's early detection.

Starting point is 00:33:53 It's innovative treatments and it's the comprehensive support. And I know that sounds comprehensive support. That means like great bedside manner, great care, because there's so much more to being treated for cancer than just the treatments. It's everything else. It's the family. It's the commitments. It's the being comfortable.

Starting point is 00:34:11 Everybody that goes through the Princess Margaret comes out going, that was a horrible experience, but the Princess Margaret made it better. And that is what's so amazing about this. They're also cutting out of John research, and we want to help them out any way that we can. You can check it out. PMCF Road Hockey. You can just Google that. Or just tune into our live stream next Tuesday.

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Starting point is 00:35:27 Whatever lies ahead, don't change your morning. Let your morning change you. Discover Coffee Plus on Espresso.com. Okay, let me ask you this. No Dylan Larkin to potentially start the season? We don't know. He is injured. A lot of people are like, oh, well, that's convenient.

Starting point is 00:35:43 I actually think he is injured, and he did speak to reporters. And, you know, while he would not disclose why he wants to make the trade request and did not actually say that he would ever disclose that, he said it's personal reasons, blah, blah, blah. How do you feel about starting the season with your first power play unit being something like Victor Arvetson, Nate Danielson, Lucas Raymond, Alex DeBringcat, and Moor-D cider. Hot take. Nate Danielson was a ninth overall pick three years ago, by the way.

Starting point is 00:36:13 There you go. Hot take. We overrate juiced powerplace. Yes, we do. Yes. I don't think it's hot. I saw the ducks run two straight power play units last playoffs, and it made me want the Leafs to do that. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:36:31 Like, like, and maybe, again, this is the. Lee fan talking because we've seen the same power play in it for 10 years. Well, and a juiced power play. Like on paper, you're like they're going to finish top five in the league every year. And there were years where they were top 10 and stuff and whatever. But at the NHL level, anyone that you put on your team's top power play is going to be capable of filling that role. One of the worst power plays in the league year in, year out, features Kail McCar and

Starting point is 00:37:01 Nathan McKinnon. Right. Right. Yeah, they were brutal last year. On a president's trophy winning team. They suck. They were last for a while. Yeah, a lot.

Starting point is 00:37:12 They won the president's trophy. That makes no sense. So I look at that on paper. Yeah, it's underwhelming. They have some guys who can hammer the buck. They'll be fine. Yeah. Do you want to play the Larkin trade request thing?

Starting point is 00:37:24 Sure. From the press conference. Yeah, let's do it. Shoney Horkoff is there with them. There were reports that you had like a three-team list than a five team list is that were those accurate where does it stand now what can you say that yeah a lot of I stopped or heating because they weren't true and that's all I'm gonna say about that we're gonna keep those like that kind of stuff we're

Starting point is 00:37:51 gonna keep that in house there I addressed that yesterday any reference to that kind of stuff we're gonna keep it between Dylan's camp and the organization all I'm trying to get to is what's true I don't care what's been reported I'm trying to get from you what's true. The other thing I want to ask, is there any chance of a reconciliation? You know, I'm going to keep that between Sean and I. I'm going to keep that to myself. You know, the request originally was not meant to get out, and it did. How did it get out? We're here today.

Starting point is 00:38:24 How did it get out? I've learned from that experience, and, you know, I think that really, really, Just keeping it to myself and to Sean and, you know, the guys in the room. I can touch on that too. Freedman was the first one on the trade request. He was the one who broke it. But the whole press conference was just so much of that. I'm going to keep it to myself.

Starting point is 00:38:48 No, my point is I heard from somebody that, and I heard from somebody reputable, that when that larkin trade request got out publicly, Steve Isamon hit the roof. So what I'm saying is that did not. come from the Red Wigs supposedly like Eisenman was furious so that doesn't mean it didn't come from them okay but it could have come from some someone under him it could have been you're absolutely right yeah and I understand that because it makes it harder when people know you need to trade somebody it's harder to trade them so you want those things to be private don't tell don't tell Connor

Starting point is 00:39:26 hellabuck so yeah he Steve Eisenman wants to go in the negotiation acting like I don't want to trade the Larkin 100% here's why I would say that I don't believe it came from the Red Wings, because how do the Red Wings benefit? You always have to ask yourself, who benefits from this? Do the Red Wings benefit from a trade request like that coming out? Steve Eisenman gets angry and then loses his job. Do they benefit? One of my favorite things that I've been latching on to lately is,

Starting point is 00:39:52 oh, wait, I have free will. And so Dylan Larkin made his trade request, and here's a list of three teams, and we're all talking about how crappy the offers are going to be. And the Red Wings went, Oh, wait, I have free will. I'm not going to do that. You have five years left in your deal.

Starting point is 00:40:08 I'm just not going to do that. And that's how we got here today. Listen, I don't expect any Red Wings fan to give Dylan Larkin an inch. I don't. Nor should they. They've supported him through everything. I watched that clip,

Starting point is 00:40:23 and I kind of see three people doing their job and doing it pretty well. The journalist, who was the reporter? I'm not sure. They did a good job, right? I would like to see more follow-up questions too often in everything, but especially sports. It's question, unsatisfying, obviously half-truth answer, followed by no follow-up whatsoever, right? That's annoying.

Starting point is 00:40:51 I'm usually not a fan of leadership jumping in in an answer. It really rubbed me the wrong way when Pelley did it. during the John Jacob Press conference. So me, like that's Sean Horkoff being a good leader, like seeing like, okay, this guy's drowning here. Like I gotta, I gotta get involved. He involved himself in an appropriate time, I thought.

Starting point is 00:41:19 Wasn't disrespectful. No, no, he was good. And as for Larkin, you know, take your lumps. He's taking his lumps. He showed up to camp. He showed up to camp. Yeah, he got hurt.

Starting point is 00:41:34 Everyone's like, oh, that's convenient. Well, okay, he still had to do the podium thing. You went to the podium, yeah. I mean, I assume getting on ice would have been the fun part. Here he is at the podium, you know, taking these arrows and like, that's no fun. You know, why did you ask for this request to Detroit? I don't expect him to answer that, especially when it looks like he's going to play. By all accounts, yeah.

Starting point is 00:41:59 If he gets traded, I wouldn't be shocked if he eventually tells us. but as long as he's in Detroit, I don't expect him to answer that question. And shout out Nick Kotsonika. Steve, a little of flare on that. Katsenika, yeah. Katsenika from NHL.com who asked that question. You want to shout a question.

Starting point is 00:42:20 Good question. Good, good, good, good. Yeah, I've met Nick. I forgot he covers the Red Wings. I feel like he's bounced around. So, you know, we can shift from the Red Wings if you guys want to because I'm ready to move on to the Jets. I do think ending on the Larkin thing is interesting and important because Dylan Larkin,

Starting point is 00:42:37 for as much as Red Wings fans were upset with him, did sit up there with the general manager, was respectful of the questions. I don't even think he got defensive. Like, I think he just was like, I'm just not going to answer these. And that's his prerogative. He can do that. Carter Hallowbuck didn't show up at all. And, you know, so we'll start with, let me go back with some Jets history.

Starting point is 00:42:59 And I apologize Jets fans in advance because, This is something that has happened more than once in Winnipeg. And it sometimes does happen in markets like these. But Winnipeg has had these big-name players all of a sudden shift and go, I can't do this anymore or I won't do this anymore. November 7th, 2016, Kevin Shevel-Dayoff says, Jacob Truba is a Winnipeg jet when asked if Truba might be traded after signing his new deal. Do you remember that?

Starting point is 00:43:31 Do you remember how much back and forth there was about. Jake Truba and how he, remember, I believe he sat out a little bit of time. And, you know, there was a huge. There was like a huge thing. And maybe he didn't set out, but there was a, they were, they were at each other's throats. And then he got traded to New York. That's Chris Johnson from November 7th, 2016.

Starting point is 00:43:51 Okay. Wow. Then you've got, you know, there was the line A situation. But also, and this is from Chris Johnson, years ago, 2021, Kevin Chevaldeoff says there's one person and one person only that can say if Dustin Bufflin is ever. going to play again. And that's Bufflin himself. That went all the way to 2021?

Starting point is 00:44:09 Actually, 2020, excuse me, April 17th. April 17th. Yeah. So we were like, we were a month into the pandemic. Oh yeah. No, that was during. What am I saying? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:18 Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah. The NHL Jets GM detailed how the players mind flip-flopped on the subject throughout the season. Well, and he had like a messed up ankle, but it was something to do with like they maybe misdiagnosed him or something. Yes. I seem to remember, yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:35 So Chevy gets on the mic and has to do this again. So it's now we got Truba, we got Bufflin. I guess you could include Kane in that too. Evander. And now also Linae and now Helibuck. And listen, the thing about the Jets is that when people go there, they tend to stick around. Like I remember when Stasney got traded there. He was like, yeah, I don't think I need to leave ever.

Starting point is 00:45:01 Sheifley signed this big long deal. Connor has signed his big long deal. Morrissey signed a big long deal. Bufflin did sign a big long deal before retiring in the middle of it. Deonk's been there since he got there. Yeah. Like this is not, IAfo. Like all those guys.

Starting point is 00:45:15 Honor Hella Buck signed his big long deal. He sure did. He sure did. And it'll be a Jet for life. I think didn't Valardi sign long term as well? Chevaldeaf gets these guys signed. But it seems. Generally.

Starting point is 00:45:28 So when we put this out there, and I know this is particularly sensitive to Jets fans and people from Winnipeg, We're not suggesting for a second that it has anything to do with the city of Winnipeg or the weather or whatever the other myriad excuses. But this, like, I can think of one player who was like, get me the fuck out of here in Toronto, maybe two. And it was number one was Mitch Martyr. The other most recent one was Chris Verstieg. Get me the hell out of here. Chris Verstieg did not want to be here.

Starting point is 00:45:58 Yeah. Well, they were buns. And so I do find it funny. I mentioned those names, I do think it's worth noting. And I don't know if they're connected, but now we've got four major players in the last decade that have said, that's roughly one every two and a half years that says, yeah, I'm just simply not. And let's play Kevin Shevoldeoff's clip there, Jesse.

Starting point is 00:46:19 It's about two minutes and 23 seconds long. And I got to give him credit for stepping up here and just kind of owning the situation. Not that he hasn't had to do this before a few times. But this is one of the league's longest running, if not the longest running general manager. He's been the general manager since day one. He's seen it all. Has to be top three. And have a listen to what he says about Connor Hallibuck here.

Starting point is 00:46:45 As you know, training camp opened yesterday with medicals in the morning and team dinner last night. Unfortunately, Connor Hellabuck chose not to attend these functions. And so consequently, last night I reached out to his representatives and let them know that we would be suspending Connor for failure to report to camp pursuant to his standard players contract in the CBA. What's your understanding of why? You know, I guess, you know, again, there's probably lots of why's and, you know, unfortunately, you know, this situation is what it is. We've been dealing with it for, you know, a period of time now and just looking to find a resolution that works for both sides, but, you know,

Starting point is 00:47:31 certainly for the players and the fans of the Winnipeg Jets. And you know, why is restricting you not traded to Canadian teams? You know, I'm not going to get into the specific teams, my guess, as to, you know, what his restrictions are in those regards. You know, again, the choices that he makes are the choices that he makes. I don't have an understanding as to, you know, why he made some of the choices that he made when talking about those kind of situations. and not say two days from now, three days from now, because I understand it, there's no financial aspect connected to this until a later day.

Starting point is 00:48:10 Well, this really isn't about finances from, you know, from our perspective, it's more so about just procedural and the way things, you know, work procedurally in the National Hockey League. So two-part question here, Kevin, and that is, in terms of, I understand that he would have the right to find him significantly,

Starting point is 00:48:29 if that is indeed, indeed true? Is that something that would be on the table? Finding him isn't necessarily Yeah, so. Proper way of putting it. There are, you know, there's, there's applicable sections in the standard players contract and the CBA that specifically addressed this and we're just following the CBA. You said there were many reasons you made out of the, in your mind,

Starting point is 00:48:55 what are some of those reasons for us? I guess in my mind it's irrelevant. You know, my mind, I have to deal with the situation that's in front of me. You know, Conner's made the choices and, you know, we'll just deal with them moving forward. We have not seen a player hold out under contract in a long time. The one I can really remember was Alexei Ashen. And back, this is before the lockout, like four or five years before the lockout. Yashin said, I want more money.

Starting point is 00:49:21 The senator said no. And he sat out a year, played in Russia, I think. And then. No. Oh, no. He just didn't play. The NHL then ruled that the year that he'd missed, he still owed the senators. And so he had to play for the senators another year.

Starting point is 00:49:35 And then they traded him to the Islanders for the picks that became Spetsa and Chara, or at least maybe it was Spets and Char. It was Chara and the pick that became Spets, I believe. So now we got a situation where for the first time in over 25 years, we're back. And CJ said on his show that, you know, as soon as the regular season starts, Connor Hellebuck will be forfeiting $40,000 a day. Hey, hey, 39,000. 39,000.

Starting point is 00:50:02 Now, the next one, and Greg Wischinski tweeted this, and I think a lot of people were like, oh, that's interesting. And they had to address this specifically is the gentleman's agreement. Now, Greg, and I'm going to paraphrase Greg's tweet, Greg said something along the lines of. I wonder if there was a gentleman's agreement between Chevy and Hellebuck when they signed the deal saying, we will trade you if we ever become not competitive. And here's what Kevin Shevoldeoff had to say. It's about 60 seconds long. Is there ever, I don't imagine anything was put in writing,

Starting point is 00:50:36 but is there ever an understanding or a gentleman's agreement that, you know, at some point if he came to you and decided that he didn't want to stay here, that you would look to trade him? Well, first of all, you know, again, a contract is a contract in the National Hockey League, you know, period. There are no side agreements. There's no general agreements. You know, the league doesn't, you know, allow for that.

Starting point is 00:50:59 So, so any, you know, I guess the fact is any notion around that would not have any merit. You know, that being said, you know, we are a team that has been trying to be competitive. We've been trying to push things forward and try to, you know, to win on a regular basis. And, you know, again, when Connor came and asked, you know, and requested, you know, being traded, We kept it quiet. That was partly on his, you know, request as well. And we tried to, you know, make that work. And we've been trying to make that work ever since.

Starting point is 00:51:30 Kevin. I don't have time for that. We have time for what? The gentleman's agreement argument. Okay. Like, because. Is this because of the Ryan O'Reilly stuff in Nashville? Well, that's just, that's ridiculous.

Starting point is 00:51:47 That's just bad GMing. So for those of you who don't know, Ryan O'Reilly has no trade production on a deal that is, he's paid like a premium fourth line center now. $4.5 million. The predators could get an absolute ransom for that player. And they do have a gentleman's agreement, contrary to what Kevin Chevaldeoff said, that even though he doesn't have a no trade clause,

Starting point is 00:52:09 he has a no trade clause. Which, if you're young and out there in listening to and watching this, don't operate professionally on gentlemen's agreements. That is an insane thing to do. In my experience, a large corporation will screw you

Starting point is 00:52:30 on something you have signed, let alone a gentleman's agreement. Get it on paper, get it in writing, and if you don't have that, it's useless. That's right. Okay?

Starting point is 00:52:44 I don't like that the world operates that way. That doesn't sound very nice or kind, but that is 100% how it acts and then and you're going to be treated the way Kevin Shevoldeoff was talking right there. It's well, it has no merit and a contract is a contract. Boom. That is how they look at it. That's how they look at it.

Starting point is 00:53:06 Now, Greg did sort of respond. It was interesting. Greg said, well, he's getting awfully to the letter about this in his answer, meaning like, yes, a contract sign is a contract sign. But Greg's right in saying this stuff does go down all the time. Sure. and And I think that

Starting point is 00:53:27 A lot of good it would do Connor Hellebuck now Is the point So because Chevy said listen If we stink By the way He signed an extension

Starting point is 00:53:37 With them when they stunk Yeah They stunk But then they went The president's Signed an extension Came back They did not stink anymore

Starting point is 00:53:44 So Chevy's Maybe operating under the assumption Hey we might not stink this year Yeah We were doing the preview For the Jets That we now have to reshoot And I was looking at their roster.

Starting point is 00:53:57 I'm like, wait a minute. It's a good team. I could see them missing the playoffs again. I could see them making them. You know? So if that's Shevledeaft's argument, but Hella Buc's like, I want to leave. And it sounds like Hella Buc was cooperative enough

Starting point is 00:54:15 to be like, here's most of the league. I'd be willing to go to most of the league. Sheffleday off went out there, and they offered. sucked. Yep. Yep. You know, he's got a job to make the Winnipeg Jets as good as possible. He's their best player. Yes. He was elected the best player in the world two years ago.

Starting point is 00:54:39 No one, by the voters, no one performed better in the National Hockey League than Connor Halibuck. Yes. And then in a down season, he won a gold medal with Team USA. You have to get a considerable package for that. person. Now, maybe not getting it done early is what bit them here. Well, it could be. Because there were all sorts of draft picks in play. Would you not Jesse and Steve agree that if that gentleman's agreement did exist, it would be the caveat of we're not just going to trade you. We kind of need to get good value back to. So if that gentleman's agreement is a real thing,

Starting point is 00:55:14 let's say it is. Let's say Greg's 100% right and they obviously can't admit that publicly. okay um Chevy's job still is to be like okay I'll trade you but like I need to get what I think is value back and they think that they haven't seen that yet and we will get into what Fridge reported this morning about what the offer from Florida was and you might be right Steve that they missed the boat this this season but I also think it bears repeating that you know outside of the gold medal game and the consequential presidential medal of freedom for playing so well, and he did play great in that game. Of course.

Starting point is 00:55:51 That was a not good year from Connor Hellebuck. That was actually, if Jesse was going to say Connor Hellebuck's bad at hockey, last year would have been the Connor Hellebuck year to say it. Jesse wasn't wrong. He was just early. He was just early. He was a year early. Now, the heart trophy is legitimately funny.

Starting point is 00:56:07 It was amazing. One of the wildest thing has ever happened. It's really funny. To Kevin Shevoldeoff's credit, he didn't close the door on Connor Hellebuck changing his mind. And I really appreciate this too. Can we play this, Jesse? You probably should.

Starting point is 00:56:21 It's pretty easy to see Connor Hallibuck. He's got five years left. He signed a seven-year contract. I think the sentiment is out there for the most part is that this guy can kind of rock here. I'm wondering from an organizational standpoint, like where you feel your responsibility is as an organization? Where do you feel like where you guys are responsible for this situation? Well, I think for me, I have to try to keep a level head. I can't let emotion, you know, come into play, you know, in any regard.

Starting point is 00:56:46 I think it's it's it's about you know again trying to find something that that can can push this you know this organization forward and obviously in a different fashion with with a different you know different player players and so that that remains I guess the thought process that that was the thought process from you know the moment that I guess my head you know took the news from you know from from the request and you know, that's what it has to be. But it can't get emotional. It can't get personal. You know, Conner Hellbuck's part of our family

Starting point is 00:57:24 until he's not part of our family. Like that's, you don't just say that. You have to believe it. And, you know, at the end of the day, you know, I think there's probably been disagreements in your own families and you don't say, well, you're not my, you're not my family member anymore, you know, again, but you find ways to get around it.

Starting point is 00:57:41 And, you know, we'll see what way we can find to get around this and hopefully it's something that works for both sides. And then there were comments about security. And I think that hits at the issue. Obviously, we would be stupid to ignore the tensions between Canada and the United States right now on the trade front. And then, of course, in the gold medal game, they play each other second year in a row.

Starting point is 00:58:09 Remember, there's a four nations final, and then there's the gold medal final. And they did. say there was something about security and upping security. And if you're trying to read the tea leaves, I think that's your best bet on why this perhaps has gone the way that it has. My assumption is that, you know, when he came back, and I believe they booed, there was some booing going on at some point, but I could be wrong about that.

Starting point is 00:58:38 It's like, I don't have the actual game footage. Players have survived booze before. It's not the end of the world. Everybody will live. I think perhaps there might have been, this is me guessing, some sort of Instagram message or DM or I don't even know if he's got like a social presence or something where they felt like, we don't feel safe here after that. And you can debate whether or not that's valid. You can debate whether or not it's warranted. You can have your own opinions on that.

Starting point is 00:59:09 And also, we're still guessing. So it's key to this. but if somebody doesn't feel it anymore, then they don't feel it. The problem, though, is that by not showing up, Connor Hullabuck, I believe, is further from his goal. So listen, I understand, hey, maybe you don't feel safe or maybe you want to change or maybe you're sick of it and you've done, what, 12 years, how long he's been there. And he was gracious and said, hey, they took a chance on me.

Starting point is 00:59:42 12 years. Well, like you've done 12 years with the team or whatever. I don't mean it like that. Those are my words, by the way. Those are not his words. Don't do that. Don't do that. Okay.

Starting point is 00:59:53 You might be ready for a change or whatever. And the reason might be that you don't feel safe. I mean, we know that was the case with Mitch Marner. We know that was the case. Didn't feel safe. And so, okay, whether or not that is verifiable, statistically back-upable, whatever you want to say, he doesn't feel it. So therefore, he wants to move on.

Starting point is 01:00:17 I get that. Sitting out, staying out, I don't think gets him closer to his goal. If Connor Hallibuck comes out and he plays the absolute lights out for the first couple of months of this season, they'll be able to trade him for significant assets. How crazy would it be if he went out pitched like a 40 save shutout? And post game, he still, yeah, no, I still want to be traded.

Starting point is 01:00:40 Well, I think he, I mean, that would, That would be the case, though. It would be interesting theater. Now, we did find out this morning from Frege on 32 Thoughts. What Florida's offer for Hellebuck was before they ultimately went Brady Kachuk, Jake Markstrom, route. Which, again, Jake Markstrom, Florida goalie. I'm still, I mean, hey, he was drafted there, but. The skaters on that team are crazy.

Starting point is 01:01:06 Yeah, the gold sending could be great. I have questions. Could be bad. Florida's offer was Evan Rodriguez. The picks that went to Ottawa, which included the seventh overall, was it seventh overall or ninth overall? And a roster player that was not Anton Lindell. That was not enough for Winnipeg. Winnipeg wanted the fourth pick from Buffalo, but they refused to give up the eighth pick that they had.

Starting point is 01:01:28 Winnipeg would have drafted Vigo Bjork, fourth overall, had that trade happened. Friedman believes Ukekekele-Lukinen has Winnipeg on his no trade list. Carolina was interested. Carolina seems like such a no-brainer. Well, I know, but the only thing they're willing to offer is Nikitian, and the Jets don't think they're going to build to sign them. So that there is no offer. That's not an offer.

Starting point is 01:01:54 If Nekishin won't play there, well, then, yeah. And so what's shovel day I'm supposed to do? Just get slaughtered? That's the point, right? And that's why he has to do this. So I respected a lot the way he handled that press conference, and I've been very critical of the way he's drafted and some of the things he's done.

Starting point is 01:02:09 but I got to say I don't know how he could do any of this differently. You ever play a video game and just go, how the hell is anyone supposed to beat this? I feel like that's the Winnipeg Jets job. And like they've under shoveled a off, yeah, they've had some really bad seasons. They've come alarmingly close.

Starting point is 01:02:29 Like given the restrictions that that market has. Like getting players to go. go there. Like, if you don't nail every draft pick, you're so screwed. And he hasn't nailed every draft pick. And they've still been competitive in a lot of years. But you can't walk away from the situation, guys, with a trade that looks any worse or without a trade that looks better than the Pierre-Luc Dubois trade. That was a great trade.

Starting point is 01:03:01 And you're trading a, oh, my God. You're trading a franchise icon. And I know he's a goalie, and I know goalie traditionally don't get the same return. but that's what this is going to be looked at like. People are going to be like, if they come away with a weak return, then they're going to be like, we traded Connor Hellebuck for less than what we got back for Pierre

Starting point is 01:03:21 Luke Dubois. I keep digging into the Yaroslav Ascarov return. Like I think, like based on what you just read out, like you'd be lucky to get that at this point. And you're trying. Maybe until next spring. Maybe until next spring.

Starting point is 01:03:37 Maybe Carter Hellebuck. value goes right back to where it was next spring, if he has a good season. And when all the trades and the free agency stuff is all happening in May, June, July, well, that's when people move. He's blocking his blessings.

Starting point is 01:03:52 I think so. Right now. Like forget the money that it's going to cost him. Like you said, like maybe he doesn't care, right? But the goal is to get out of there. If you want to get out of there and continue to play in the NHL,

Starting point is 01:04:05 you have to play. You have to play. Jesse, if you were Winnipeg, would like Detroit's willing to play Larkin all season and keep them there, as they should be. Would you be willing to let Connor Hellebuck sit the whole season? Yes, 100%. Like the best thing, like, just to repeat everything you guys have said, like the best thing for Connor Hellebuck to do if he wants to leave Winnipeg is to play for the Winnipeg Jets. His trade value can only go up if he plays well.

Starting point is 01:04:35 And if it goes and you play poorly, then, you know, you're hurting. yourself so you better play well and that's how he can get out of the situation he's so desperately wants out of kevin shovel day off is showing up and doing his job which is making the winnipeg jets better he's not going to accept a trade that is not of his liking that'll just get connor hellabuck out of winnipeg just for the sake of doing something nice for a guy that wants out of winnipeg he has to make a trade that makes sense for the jets and until he gets that offer there's no reason for him to do that trade and trading goalies is difficult Any contender who would like a goalie probably already has a goalie.

Starting point is 01:05:13 So they don't need your goalie, so they're not going to give you anything for the goalie. So it's hard to trade goalies. So we got to wait and see if something opens up somewhere where somebody is desperate for Connor Hellebuck. But in the meantime, if you were to play for us and be good, it would be easier to trade you. But you're being a giant baby about it and you don't want to show up and honor your contract. So this is the situation we're in. Now, this is going to cause me physical pain. So you have to give credit to Steve Stahos and the Ottawa Senators and you also got to give credit.

Starting point is 01:05:47 You also have to give credit to Brady Kachuck. Yeah. You do. Like, so Brady, by all accounts, did what his brother did. What his brother did was he said, I am not, when the time comes, I'm not extending. Yes. It's Brady, I believe, had two years left on his deal. Am I wrong?

Starting point is 01:06:06 No, Brady would have been up the year. Yeah, you had two years. Yeah. Two years. Yeah. Right. Like this season and next. Yes.

Starting point is 01:06:13 Yes. Two years left. And he goes to Steve Steos and he lets him know that. Steve Steyas does not want to get futures and stink. Well, or he doesn't want to get futures because that's a step backwards and yes, futures are lovely. But we think we're pretty good now and they have reason to believe that. And we finally got here, damn it.

Starting point is 01:06:35 So what Steve Steyos did is he got active. And he has. a lot of the same restrictions Kevin Shevoldaeff does. Yes, he does. Being in the socialist hellhole that is Canada. Yes, of course. Right? So... Basically China is what we call it now. Yes.

Starting point is 01:06:50 Cold China. Cold China. He... Colder. He... The... So he had Mission Impossible that we were looking at. We're like, oh.

Starting point is 01:07:03 So he traded Brady. I believe this was before the draft, if I'm not mistaken. trades Brady and then turns around and adds a player and keeps some of the some of the future like that involves some moves but you're dealing with a player who had two years left both Halibuck and Larkin it's like guys what are you doing who told you this was going to work out exactly in your favor That's not what these contracts are for, right? Like you fought for these things in collective bargaining. It's guaranteed money. All those things work in your favor.

Starting point is 01:07:50 Those things are good. This is the team trying to protect itself. We're not going to get murdered on these deals. Both these teams in Detroit and Winnipeg are trying to protect their present and their future by not trading you. Larkin, like again, I'm grading on a significant curve here. But like showing up to that press conference yesterday, showing up to camp and it looks like he's going to play games.

Starting point is 01:08:20 You look silly? Yeah, Larkin's doing the right thing. Like Larkin's just holding to his trade request, but he's showing up and playing the games. A lot of life is looking silly and moving on. Yeah, it's true. You know? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:08:34 Like, all right, shit. Welp. You're going to wake up tomorrow and do something else. I guess I have to eat shit on this. Yeah, and just on the Hellebuck not wanting to play their part. Sorry, Adam, when you were talking, I was trying to bring up the quotes from Shovel Day Off that you were alluding to that you didn't have on hand. But Mike McIntyre of the Winnipeg Free Press wrote a little blurb about the quotes about the security and the family. And if I could just read you guys.

Starting point is 01:08:57 Yeah, please, please do. For context. He writes, Hellebuck led the lead Team USA to a gold medal at the Milano Cortina Games last February, which led to a trip to the White House where U.S. President Donald Trump. Trump awarded him the Medal of Freedom. That caused significant backlash north of the border, especially given Trump's ongoing threat of making Canada the 51st state and subsequent trade war that is ensued. Shaldeoff said, obviously what Halebuck and his family endured post that, that shouldn't have to, they shouldn't have to. I had many conversations when he was coming back from the Olympics. I was over in Europe scouting, and I had many late night conversations with his

Starting point is 01:09:34 representatives and made all the offers. I do know we requested additional security, so to speak, made it known to the police and please make sure the players feel safe. So coming off of all that, Hellebuck's agent, they had extensive conversations with Shevel Deoff, and Shovel Dayoffs and the Winnipeg Jets did all they could to make him feel safe was essentially the conversation that they have. But since then, this is Hellebuck wants out of Winnipeg. Okay. So I understand. Again, I still say it keeps him from his goal. Yes. And then I, you know, part of me with Detroit, I'm like,

Starting point is 01:10:12 I got to know what the trade offers were before I can fully judge why they never made the trade this summer with Dylan Larkin or why Iserman never made the trade. I would love to know what it was. Two pucks and a blueberry. Yeah. Like it was Florida who was supposedly in on both of these guys. Well, I don't think they were in on. Larkin wanted to go there and hell of buck. I don't know that Florida was as high on Larkin.

Starting point is 01:10:37 Right. So who is it again? It was Florida, Vegas. Dallas. And potentially. No, no, no. I think it was Florida, Vegas, Minnesota. And Dallas.

Starting point is 01:10:46 No, Dallas was a part of this. Either way. Yeah, but Minnesota, Minnesota's rumored. I don't think Minnesota's confirmed. You're just talking about his trade request teams? Yeah. Or teams that are actually in. No, his trade request team.

Starting point is 01:10:57 Yeah, because Philadelphia checked in and they were told, no, he's not going to Philly. Yeah. I think the teams Larkin wants to go to our immaterial. It's like who wants to actually trade for him. Well, Minnesota, yeah, it's a clear fit. Okay, what package are they offering us? Exactly. Oh, that sucks.

Starting point is 01:11:12 Like, Larkin, you can bark at everybody who you want to go to, but you just want out. And with that team doesn't want you, so we can't move you. Yeah. Because they won't offer anything. And by the way, like, we've spent a really significant portion of this show since we've come back talking about how the value of players has gone up. like players are making more money, right?

Starting point is 01:11:38 From a few months ago. Forget from last season. From the day of the draft, which was only a couple months ago, players' values have gone up. And by all accounts, it sounds like the trade offers on these two players who have five years left have gone down. No, I'm not moving you.

Starting point is 01:11:57 If I'm either GM, I'm not moving you. So based on our gentleman's agreement, I'm supposed to friggin just die here. Yeah. No. I don't agree with any of that. No. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:12:13 Like, profuse apologies, no. What, like, I have a business to, I, I have a team to run. Mm-hmm. No. So, yeah, this is a, I, part of me thought coming in, I'm like, have they made a mistake? Have both teams made a mistake and not just pull in the trigger? So it's not a distraction coming into camp. But I also think it was getting to the point where,

Starting point is 01:12:34 teams sort of had to reestablish actually know we have you under contract. Well, like, okay, Hellebuck. Because Brady got his wish. Because there was nothing to pull with the Hellebuck situation. I think we've outlined that a million times now. It were the last 40 minutes. There's nothing there. He shouldn't do that deal.

Starting point is 01:12:51 And then the Larkin one, there was nobody in charge to make the deal. Right. So I think there's both situations. Literally no one had the authority for the two months that he had the trade request to make the trade. It's crazy. We're now at the point where some. somebody has a job title and make a trade. And then the other one, we just, like I said, sat here for 40 minutes saying

Starting point is 01:13:09 shoveled off shouldn't make a bad trade. And by the way, the reason why we're here was at the helm is in part probably due to Larkin. Yeah. Because that news got out. Yeah. Now, like there's a narrative that Helibuck went about this the right way. He went about it privately. He gave them a big list of teams.

Starting point is 01:13:29 Vallas. There's no right way to go about this. You, like, again. again, I'd love to believe in this Barney the dinosaur world where we all get along. You have five years left on your contract. You are owed nothing, except the money that we owe you contractually. Unless you don't show up, in which case we don't owe you shit. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:13:53 And that's how this works. I have no problem with him not wanting to play in Winnipeg ever again. No problem. I think he's hurting himself and achieving that goal. by not showing up. He's blocking his question. Just show up. Yeah.

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Starting point is 01:14:29 Dark web. That sounds ominous. Yeah. Internet-y. Dark web following you a real. round, falling you down all the weird alleyways that you go. If you're like my favorite New Jersey based mobster, I don't trust that cookie stuff. Again, we have to watch, we're going to have to watch Sopranos at one point or something.

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Starting point is 01:17:04 Carolina might sit on their hands too and go, okay. All right. And he's not going to camp, right? Well, no, not without a contract. So you're going to miss the banner raising and everything. All right. I don't know.

Starting point is 01:17:16 I know that seems like a childish thing. But like, oh, but you earned that. You earned that. And then you're going to miss that. sucks that you're going to miss that. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:17:25 I mean, I wonder if Carolina's going, you know what, we're going to, I would imagine they want a king's rancor for this guy. and they should. And whoever gets him has to understand that, A, they're going to pay a king's ransom,

Starting point is 01:17:40 and then they have to pay him and have no leverage in which to do that. Right? An acquiring team who gets an RFA loses the leverage of, while you're an RFA. Can I overthink this? Please. For years, we criticized the shitty, shitty, shitty, shitty job that Don Fear did.

Starting point is 01:18:02 Yeah. And Marty Walsh is the new head of the NHLPA, but at the end of the day, he can't come in and completely rewrite everything. No, he can't. And especially in the short amount of time that he's been at the helm. So now you have three players, relatively prominent players, players under contract and a restricted free agent who are like, trade me. Good players.

Starting point is 01:18:31 Trade me. No. What if I didn't? These are the kinds of things that happen when a union doesn't take their being a union seriously and get their balls smashed in every negotiation. I also think, like, Nakesh should look in the mirror, no offense to him. Like, who are you to be making this trade request here? And they've been making noise since he got here, right?

Starting point is 01:18:59 This reminds me of the Leafs Day of Yore when a fellow we like made a trade request and Leif sat there and said no. McAev? Is this McCaev or Robertson? Elya McAyev. Yeah. I was doing Elyne McAv, but Nick Robertson as well. Well, McKay, it was legitimately, I keep going back to.

Starting point is 01:19:17 McCaugh's was so silly. It was silly, but it was legitimately good for his career. Yes. Yeah. That they said no. They're like, we like you, play better. And he went, okay, and he played better. And he looked great.

Starting point is 01:19:28 And then Vancouver's like, here's just a Bonville an amount of money. Oh, yeah. And now he's in Tampa and he's, Like, he's fine. Yeah. He owes Kyle Dubas so much for saying no. Yeah, 100% because it's Elia McHiav. Like, and we're talking in comparison to NHL players, you know, not saying like he's nothing.

Starting point is 01:19:46 But Nekishin, like, being their third pair D and you're trying to make Eric Toski make bad moves? Who do you think you are? I think it's not Connor Hellebuck. It's not Dylan Larkin. You're not Brady Kachuk. Yeah. You're not Worensky. You're not Austin.

Starting point is 01:20:04 in like he he finds himself make this deal he finds himself in a somewhat similar situation to Bowen Byram whereas Byram was behind McCarr and Taves he's a valuable young piece he gets traded finds himself behind power and Dalline

Starting point is 01:20:20 in in Buffalo but Byram played high enough in the lineup for long enough that he he got traded for a lot and makes a lot lot. And that made sense for the Sabres too, because at the money that he would command under this new salary cap, they couldn't afford to pay him anything to be their second or third pair of D. You know? Dylan Larkin. First line center of the Red Wings. Connor Hullabuck. All world starting goalie for the war pegs.

Starting point is 01:20:53 Fesna, here a guy. Alexander and Ekesian, third pair D. On their, Carolina. On their championship winning team. On their championship winning team. Like they, The Jets are going to hurt if Hullabuck doesn't play for them. The Red Wings are going to hurt if Larkin doesn't play for them. The hurricanes will, I think, continue to operate everyday life as normal. That's exactly what I'm getting at. Like, I think they're fine on the hurricane side of this thing.

Starting point is 01:21:22 And it's really bold of him to go to these lengths to get out when you're in that position in that lineup. Yeah. And like, it's, it's. I think he's trying to take advantage of. of the major RFA deals that were signed. And he'll probably be looking at this Edvinson deal and going, well, if he's over 10, which he's going to be. And by the way, Simon Edvinson, if he'd signed a June 15th, would not have been over 10 million.

Starting point is 01:21:46 But because it's September and because, you know, guys like Don Waddell are like, oh, damn, I think we missed the train. You know, like all these contracts are way, way, way high. And I think Nekish is saying, well, I should be in that. And the Carolina hurricanes are saying, why? Where's the Carolina Hurricanes Do you know where you play? Who taught all these guys

Starting point is 01:22:07 That they get to have their cake and eat it too No, but they can In certain instances But the difference between Leo Carlson, Cutter, Goce Adam Fantilly, some of these other guys Simon Epidson They had the leverage

Starting point is 01:22:19 Because they were great Because they play key roles on their team Key role If you have five years left in your contract You don't have leverage Yeah And if you're a pending RFA Like there's such a there's a

Starting point is 01:22:32 fairly obvious solution here that we touched on, or that Frege touched on, uh, Nikitian in some sort of package going to Winnipeg. And the rumor is that, uh, they don't think they can sign them. Help me, help you. You want to go somewhere. You want to play a prominent role. You want to get a lot of money. I do. Okay. So here's a trade to Winnipeg. No. All right. All right. That's great. The other RFAs that are out there, Fantilli, I get that. Yeah. Like, I feel like the Columbus Blue Jackets are doing the bad thing by not just paying you all that money. Just fucking keep Fantilly.

Starting point is 01:23:12 That's a great player. Believe it or not, there are some situations where I'm on the player's side. That's why I want to talk about the other guys. Yeah. Because it's not just, oh, the players need to shut up and take your money from the billionaires. No, like I'm on Fantilly side in that negotiation. Simon Evanston. Fantilly's their number one center.

Starting point is 01:23:29 Yeah, pay him. Yes. Like, number one center. Number one center, no contract, pay him. That's crazy. Huge difference. Don Waddell doesn't know what he's done. Simon Evanston, there is nobody in charge to give him a contract.

Starting point is 01:23:43 Now that somebody's in charge to give him a contract, pay that man. That is a good defense man. That's a situation where I'm like, the player probably shouldn't show up to camp. No, but he is. I don't know why he's out there with no contract at Red Wings camp, but more power to him. I like I'm on the player side there. Brennan-Othman. I don't really have a hot Brennan-Othman take.

Starting point is 01:24:05 I don't think you need one. No, no, he does. Let him develop one on the fly right here. Eventually I will. Everybody wants to hear Jesse's off-and-take. First round pick from 2021. Yeah. Don't make me bring up the tweet.

Starting point is 01:24:19 12th overall. What is the tweet? The tweet is whenever you hear someone referred to as a former first-round pick, you know their turbo dog shit. He was traded from New York. to Calgary in the Bataglia trade. Jacob Battaglia.

Starting point is 01:24:35 Battalia. Sorry. Battalia trade. Friend of the show. Jesse's been watching the Supranos. That's beautiful. I don't understand why he doesn't have a contract, but I think they'll figure that one out. And then the last one on the board

Starting point is 01:24:49 is Niketian. And I'm like, why are you fighting so hard? The Hurricanes, why are you fighting so hard? What are you doing here? It sounds like a Californian in there. What aren't you? doing here.

Starting point is 01:25:04 Yeah, no. Like, again, Hallibuck does not have leverage here. Like, well, the jets are going to be bad. Yeah. So as I laid out last episode, if the jets have to tank, they have to tank. There's just so much leverage on the hurricane side.

Starting point is 01:25:21 It's quite opposite. Larkin does not have leverage here. Neketian does not have leverage here. Yeah. Guys, who's, don't you have agents? Yeah. Who's giving you advice? They control your rights and they don't need you.

Starting point is 01:25:38 Yep. Like this is costing you money. And like even if it's not like Larkin's showing up to cab, what money is it's costing him? Who's like, get me Dylan Larkin for an endorsement deal right now? Oh, like right now. Yeah, all the local money he could be pulling in from Detroit. Oh, I'm sure last year.

Starting point is 01:25:58 Oh my God, that's the, it's the craziest bag fumbling. in recent memory, you're the captain of the local team and just won the gold medal at the Olympics in the country that you play in. How did you turn that into several months later everyone hates you? That's losing stinks. I think this is a, it's not about money for him. Losing stinks, but I don't remember. Sometimes it's not all about money, Steve.

Starting point is 01:26:25 You can't just be like, there's a bag, go get the bag. Losing stinks, but I don't remember, I remember there being frustration about Dylan Larkin, but I don't remember people going, you have to trade him. sucks. You know what I mean? Totally. But sometimes it's not all about money. Yeah. No, it's true. I don't necessarily blame Dylan Larkin for asking out.

Starting point is 01:26:43 I don't necessarily blame Connor Hellabuck for asking out. I don't blame any of these guys for asking out. But their requests were unreasonable. Yeah, we're handicapping these negotiations between GM and player agent and some of these,

Starting point is 01:27:01 the GM has a lot more power. than the player agent. Yeah. And like, with Larkin and the Red Wings and yeah, no one was at the helm to make the trade.

Starting point is 01:27:11 Okay. Part, like a factor is what if your boss is a dumbass? Like, you know how many people listening to this right now have to make decisions

Starting point is 01:27:19 and they come up with the ideas and they go, okay, here's my plan, wait a minute, my boss is a dumbass. How do I move forward? And you have to manage up. Yep.

Starting point is 01:27:30 I don't know. I don't know. Like, yeah, empowerment and all that cool, great. I don't know who told Dylan Larkin and Connor Halbuck they were in the same position as Brady Kachuk, but they lied.

Starting point is 01:27:44 They didn't give them good advice. You're not in the same spot. Sorry. Now, we do want to mention too, this before we get into the Leafs here, Alexander Ovechkin did a video with one of the major Russian ministers Lavrov, and

Starting point is 01:28:01 it is created, obviously. It's no surprise. I mean, Ovechkin's picture on Instagram has been him and Putin for almost a decade. My understanding is that his mom and dad, both former famous athletes as well in Russia, are pretty high up in the Russian government. And, you know, it obviously is something that the NHL and NHLPA refused to comment on, react to, and I asked to somebody and they said they actually don't even care. But the Washington Capitals did seem to care a little bit because they had to

Starting point is 01:28:32 issue a statement and general manager Chris Patrick said he didn't tell us he was going to do that. Because yesterday was their media day. Yeah. OV spoke about it because that's all he was asked about. And yeah, Chris Patrick didn't sound too pleased that they didn't know that this was coming. Now, Steve, there was a reporter you wanted to shout out who actually asked him about it. Yeah, I'd like to shout out Robert Clemco investigative enterprise reporter for ESPN formerly of watching. He's like host.

Starting point is 01:29:03 He's like the Rick Wested for ESPN. This is how I kind of view. In that he's doing his job? Question mark. Like, when a player goes hockey, you know, hockey questions only, this is the thing and this is why you need to get upset every time a team messes with a reporter's access. no matter what. Like there ought to be a very high bar, a reasonable bar

Starting point is 01:29:43 for someone restricting access or taking away credentials. And it can't be criticizing the owner. It can't be... Vancouver. Yeah, Vancouver. It can't be criticizing the owner and then you walk a guy out

Starting point is 01:29:55 that's absolutely friggin' ridiculous. And like I hope nothing happens to this guy's access because, yeah, we're going to keep it to hockey. questions, it's your job based on your profession to be like, no. And that's what Robert Klemko did. And it's Ovechkin's prerogative to walk away from those questions or refuse to answer them or answer some of them and then walk away from them at the end. But like at the end of the day, I'm not sure, Alex, exactly what you expected to happen here. You did a propaganda

Starting point is 01:30:31 and a video for the Russian government, who's actively at war with Ukraine, and you thought we were going to be like, so what's the flex in your stick this season? Right. I think he knew that questions were coming. I think for me, the more fascinating thing,

Starting point is 01:30:46 because the idea that Ovechkin's aligned with Putin is not new. I mean, and so there's no story there for me. Except for I appreciate the fact that he asked the questions. You need to ask those questions. And if he doesn't want to answer them, that's his prerogative. That's fine.

Starting point is 01:30:59 I think the fascinating thing is the binding. keeps putting the NHL and the NHLPA in as their leading goal score in NHL history is aligned with a regime that, you know, for my opinion, I don't know why I have to say that, not doing great things in the world right now. And not just a little bit aligned, not like, hey, I voted for this. It's like I actively am promoting this and what these guys are about. And of course, I support Rush, I think is what he says in the quote. So that for me, it's not.

Starting point is 01:31:31 really about OVie for me. To me, it's about... Will Betteman say something? Will Marty Walsh ever get involved? Or does it matter? Do they care? And here's what I think is happening. Because I think this story is going to go away next week

Starting point is 01:31:43 because we're going to get later into training camp. We're going to preseason games and nobody's going to talk about it. And I think the NHL knows that. The PA knows that too. And so I feel like they're sitting here going, okay, we'll just, I don't know, just wait it like we always do. The story will go away. It will go away.

Starting point is 01:31:59 Yeah. It will. And so I don't know. Like I just do think it does put them in an awkward spot, but I think they're completely comfortable in awkward spots, if that makes any sense. And they've had to not respond to way more serious things in the past or at least step aside of them.

Starting point is 01:32:17 Here's to me what has changed. So Robert Clemco also got to speak to Chris Patrick, the GM of the Capitals. He said another interesting exchange from Capitals training camp. I asked GM Chris Patrick if Ovechkin, had told the team he planned to film the Russian campaign advertisement. He said Ovechkin had not. We would have worked to avoid the situation very hard, Patrick said.

Starting point is 01:32:40 And I doubt we'd be standing where we're standing right now if he had run it by us. That's new. That's very new. So the team is interested. But anyway, the team's in an awkward spot, but it'll pass by next week. And that's the key. So we need to talk about other things because there's not much more to go on there. but it is notable and it is something that if it flares up again,

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Starting point is 01:34:11 I wonder if my head of office has a forever setting. An IG Private Wealth advisor creates the clarity you need with plans that harmonize your business, your family, and your dreams. Get financial advice that puts you at the center. Find your advisor at IG Private Wealth.com. I do want to talk about the Leafs, though. Sure. And I want to get into, first off, the Toronto Maple Leafs are leaning history big time.

Starting point is 01:34:37 I don't know if you saw, but they've changed their profile picture on Twitter. And they have changed Center Rights to a classic Toronto Maple Leaf, like 1930s level. And they were putting out like promo videos that's like, you know, some of the greats. And like they have Boria and Wendell and Doug and all these guys. And I'm trying to figure out if they're trying to theme this. Is there a new jersey coming out? Because it's the anniversary is why. The anniversary of when the like 100 years or whatever.

Starting point is 01:35:07 Oh, it's a whole. Yeah, something. It's got to be one. They became the Maple Leafs. Yeah. From the same. That's it. The Saint Pats to the Leafs and that's the first logo.

Starting point is 01:35:16 So that's why they're doing. Are we getting a New Jersey is what I need to know? They ended the Bieber thing. Surely. I imagine we're getting this logo on a jersey. The fanatics revealed that we're getting those fun fanatics jerseys. Yeah. But he's getting those ones.

Starting point is 01:35:29 But we haven't seen them yet, right? Yeah. So maybe it'll be this logo here. So they had a live stream yesterday, just of the painting of Center Ice, which was really cool, the least ran out on, like, on the other... 17,000 people.

Starting point is 01:35:39 Social channels, those numbers are... The Twitter ones don't believe those. No, I know, fair. They came up in timelines. Those are real views. But the YouTube numbers are very impressive. So, yeah, I like the old new logo. It's fun.

Starting point is 01:35:51 Yeah. I would like in New Jersey, too. Listen, like, we talked about member berries earlier this episode, and you're trying to fool a fan base. and I got to tell you. Is it working on you? The Leafs have been doing it all summer and boy, it's working on me.

Starting point is 01:36:03 Like, it's a reminder to me that sports don't have to be all that complicated. The number one criticism of the Leafs on and off the ice was they had gone stale. Yeah. Every year, it was basically the same thing. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 01:36:19 Even though that same thing made the playoffs, but it was basically the same thing. They've had a ton of turnover on the roster. The coaching staff is very, different. Their executives are very different. They've been hammering the nostalgia on social media all summer. Some of you might have missed that, but they've been hammering it all summer. And it's just something different. It's just something. It's marketing. It's fresh. Now, real, real exciting. And the best marketing the Leafs could have hoped for is not the logo redesign.

Starting point is 01:36:52 But I want to shout out Jen, who is a big Leafs fan on, on Twitter for taking this clip and making it go viral. It's the only reason I saw it is she she clipped this. Can we run, we can run clips from the Maple Leaf social media. I know we can do that. It's the, have you seen this Nick Paul video, Jesse? Yes. We got to play this Nick Paul video.

Starting point is 01:37:14 Nick Paul from Mississauga, Ontario. Nick Paul who, and Jesse and I were at this game, unfortunately, scored two goals in game seven, beat the Leafs 2 to 1. Tampa Leafs. Leaves should have probably been tied in that game, but the ref decided to make the worst call I've, I think, since Kerry Fraser, which was an on-call. Have a watch.

Starting point is 01:37:32 Just look at this clip and listen to what Nick Paul has to say about being a Toronto-Mapleaf. It's a five-minute clip where you were trying to play a couple of minutes. First couple of minutes. And think about all the times you heard, everybody hates Toronto. Nobody wants to play here. Think about Marchan and Kachuk and, oh, it's not anybody's fault but the fans and the media. Listen to next time someone tells you that burp in their face. Really been struck by the fact that you're wearing the Maple Leaf.

Starting point is 01:38:02 Yeah, I think my best friend growing up, he was an amazing hockey player, played AAA, got drafted the OHL, bounced around a little bit, Q, playing the Q, playing the O, end up just not making it, but we were like this. He's my best friend. And I remember, so I got the call from my GM that I had been traded, and I was like, still, trying to process it all. Called my wife, she was getting her hair down. She was like, yeah, stop messing around with me. And I'm like, no, no, I'm serious.

Starting point is 01:38:32 Like, this is, really. She wasn't expecting it. Neither was whatsoever. And then I had to sit there because it didn't get released for like an hour and a half. So I'm sitting there. I'm like, so I obviously called my parents, called my agent, blah, blah, blah. But I'm like, no one really knows yet. And I'm like getting ready for like the explosiveness of what's going to happen.

Starting point is 01:38:49 Well said. I remember my best friend. He, like, FaceTime me. And he was like tearing up. He's like, dude. like this is like this you've done it like you're playing in the mecca like we used to wear jerseys we used to this is like this is what about we're in the backyard you were mad son d and i was darcy tucker name go down the line and we were this is what we were doing in the backyard and like for you

Starting point is 01:39:10 to be there he's like he was getting choked up he's like this is our childhood dream like this is this is it like he's like i don't care you've made it but uh i was just like it's so cool because it and he goes on to talk about it and i just think with the way last season ended versus the way feels that's a big difference. The way last season ended, it was like nobody wants to be here. Matthews wants to go. Everybody's going to die. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And now

Starting point is 01:39:35 it's like, oh no, we got people that like are excited to be here, want to be here, pumped to get traded here from Florida despite the higher taxes. The Leafs have been going about this the wrong way for a long time. What they've tried to do for a long time is keep a lid

Starting point is 01:39:51 on everything. And I don't mean leaks. I mean, keep calm, keep it cool, keep a level. No passion. No passion. They talked about, you know, what was it, honor, pride, courage, the passion that unites us all. No.

Starting point is 01:40:07 They've spent the last decade trying to extinguish that. The Leafs, I said this, I saw a clip the other day of us, which is weird, from 10 months ago, and I said, the Leafs have a Toronto problem where they're terrified of their own market and they're terrified of their own fans. And they, they operated like a team that wanted to play in the quote unquote real NHL, like what Sheldon Keefe said. Mm-hmm. He didn't say it, he was sent it, but he's the one who relayed the information.

Starting point is 01:40:44 When Nick Paul talks, he's acknowledging that Toronto is not the real NHL. Like that, you know, there- At least not to him. It's an annoying thing to hear, but it is. There is some truth to that. That adrenaline, that, the, the, the tearing up, the barely being able to hold it together, I kind of think they need to embrace that. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 01:41:08 You know, and that is not how you should head into every situation in life. That I think you'll lose your mind. You will bald very young, right? But they need to embrace that passion. The Montreal Canadians don't waste. any time trying to go, you know, we wish, you know, we wish we were a small market team. Everything, they practically play in a cathedral. The reverence, the worship people have for that team, the way they talk about their team,

Starting point is 01:41:45 the way they talk about their crest. And then I see Nick Paul do that. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. My heart accelerated. I have goosebumps right now. I've never been more fired up for this season. I haven't been this fired up since the Leafs won the draft lottery.

Starting point is 01:42:03 Just hearing him say that. I hope every single guy in that room approaches every single game the way he just approached that interview. And the corporate way they've run the lease for the last little bit here in that they have a certain combative attitude with the fans where from like the locker room out, It's we don't care about the noise. We don't understand what's going on out there.

Starting point is 01:42:29 It's just us doing business. And then from like the way they're running the team, it's we don't really have the passionate fan base even in the arena. It's the guys who can only afford it to be there. And they never embrace the leifness of it all, which is just how every fan sees it. But they've never acted or seen it that way. So I hope a little bit of that attitude now in the dressing room with Nick Paul. being there can work its way out and up. And with all of the changes that happened this off season,

Starting point is 01:43:00 over 30 people who work directly in the Maple Leafy's front office change jobs or were let go and left this organization. So from Chica coming in there, there's truly been a change of people and attitude and regime that are running the Leafs now. And I hope we get more of this stuff from the outside of the building as well. The fans deserve it. Now, Luke Fox mentioned that he thinks Nick Blankenberg is going to be signed to a contract before the end of camp. It kind of makes sense that he'd sign a PTO if he was going to be signed to a contract. Jesse, very quickly, because I know we're running out of time.

Starting point is 01:43:31 I do find it interesting. Morgan Riley is out there today. Ben Danford was his stand in yesterday. But it looks like Ekman-Larsen Radish, McCabe Tanev on Emil Andre Morgan Riley. How do we feel about those defense pairings? And I'll just say this.

Starting point is 01:43:48 I think that's exactly where you could get the best out of Morgan Riley. What do you mean? Adam's trying to throw it to us. I just want to start up with. I think this is good. I think this is your avenue to walk down here. This is your dream. I think your bed sheets always come up a little wet when Morgan Riley on a third pair is in your dream.

Starting point is 01:44:07 This is my thing, guys. This is your thing. I feel like if we're going to use him in the way that he is most valuable, because remember, we've seen some dog third pairs. Amel Andre, if the things that Philadelphia people say, or Philadelphians say are to be believed, is tough, he's mean, he's a little undersized, but he can move a puck. Morgan Riley at least can move a puck. The problem with Morgan Riley is he made a lot of money,

Starting point is 01:44:37 so he had to be at the top of the lineup, and they put him in positions where he couldn't succeed. But if you have him in low-leveraged situations where he can move the puck and skate the way he still can, I like that a lot. You could cut his ice time significantly. and he might have the best offensive output he's had in years. I think depth is what gets you through the regular season.

Starting point is 01:44:59 And how you get through the regular season can dictate how you get through the playoffs, right? The fact that you have three pairs that you can basically throw it situationally, and if you really wanted to just be like 20, 20, 20. They're not going to do that. No team does that, but they could. They could do it like, I don't know, maybe it's 20, 22, 20, and 18. Yep.

Starting point is 01:45:24 Whatever the hell. Having that kind of depth and like you got Blankenberg and Stetcher behind them. And you got some decent kids down there in the minors too. Ah. And like just the team had no, literally no right handed players. Yeah. By the end of last year. Yeah, they didn't.

Starting point is 01:45:46 It was completely. That's my biggest complaint about the leaves is. William Nealander shows up with his right stick and then nobody else is there. They're a bunch of liberals, a bunch of left wingers, you know what I'm saying? Well, dude, like I even turned the prospect tournament on and I was like,

Starting point is 01:46:02 they're all right in it. Yeah. Like you look at how they've drafted, like obviously, you know, some of the guys in the Marley's, now there's a decent mix. But that was something they addressed as something that is obviously a problem.

Starting point is 01:46:16 Zizans and Roslovick are right. Righties. Yeah. Yeah, they have two lefties who can play the right or left in Ekman Larson and in Andre. So they've kind of built this lineup where if there are injuries, they'll be able to survive it a little easier than they otherwise would. If those are the three pairs, I love it. So the last thing I want to mention on the Leafs and then we can sort of wrap the show is Toronto has an official e-bug. We finally know who this person is.

Starting point is 01:46:52 And Toronto's official eBug is a guy named Brandon Bonello. He was born in 1999, so he's 27 years old from Mississauga. And he, remember, the rules are you can't have played more than 100 games professionally. He did make the ECHL. He was in the OHL for a long, long time, was a front knack for a long, long time. But he played three games with the Leafs farm team, the Cincinnati Cyclones. I think before it was even their farm team. in 21, 22, and that was the end.

Starting point is 01:47:21 But he is out there in training camp. Jesse, any other things that you want to offer from training camp that you saw? Because you were there yesterday. I think the people are yelling at their TVs or their radio. I just want to ask, is there any quick thing? Can you please just answer to the question? Why have we not received Steve's take on McKenna starting on the second line? Didn't you give it?

Starting point is 01:47:43 That's where you said that they should start him? I don't remember. No, but now that we know. what's happening. The first pod, Steve, we have line combos, McKenna, second line left winger. So, okay, I'm going to do the sieve thing, and that's take a long route to get to my answer. So when coming up with the Leaf's lineup, I would bend myself into a pretzel every time I did

Starting point is 01:48:08 it to find a way to keep Matthew Nyes off of Austin Matthew's line. because based on how it went last season, I was just under the impression. I go, I don't think they see these two as a fit to play together, right? And like in a lot of previews and mock lineups, I saw it like Nyes was also on the right wing and I was trying to navigate that and figure it out.

Starting point is 01:48:34 This is Jim Hiller, to me, not overthinking it. Because, you know, one of the things I criticized the least for for a long time, Nealander and Marner, you didn't put any resources into developing either of them as a center long term. Even if Nyes and Matthews don't necessarily work great as a pair, long term for the health of the Leafs, you have to make this work. Nyes is a goal-scoring-capable playmaking, jeep hum-vee of a winger who can kill penalties and punches like he's got,

Starting point is 01:49:14 fire hydrants for Fiss, left-handed. And you're going to put him with your two-way force, arguably the greatest goal score of his generation, or at least was trending that way. And hopefully he gets back to that in Austin Matthews. And then whoever's on the right wing, it's your job to just not screw that up. Right?

Starting point is 01:49:36 So you got Roslovick, he's been skating with Matthews, their buddies, they've played together before. Okay, great. And hopefully he can be the vision on that line a little bit. because Nyes is the one, the drawback with Nyes and Matthews is Nyes never finds Matthews. Yes.

Starting point is 01:49:50 He does not find him. And again, I keep talking about Matthew Nye's clips that I saw over the summer. Yeah, quite a few of them had him finding Matthews. Okay. And in sexy ways. Okay. This, they got to figure out how to make that work.

Starting point is 01:50:05 Okay. McKenna Tavaris Nielander. Does that work? All right. Well, what else does that allow me to do? Fourth line, Joshua Blugher-Duam, we could see that line coming from space. What do we do with the rest of it? We've talked about Nick Paul up with Austin Matthews.

Starting point is 01:50:25 Could you? Sure. Does that make sense? Eh, you could try it. Imagine the crazy forechecking you get out of like Paul on the left, Matthews, in the middle, Nyes on the right? That's something you could pull out at certain points, right? Okay, so what's the third line then? If I have McKenna up with Tavares and Kneelander, I got Paul, I got Sissons, I got Cowan. Ugh.

Starting point is 01:50:47 That's an awful time. Jim Killer, Jim Hiller was saying he said, he is Jim Killer. Jim Killer. Oh shit. Oh shit. Jim Killer. Blind squirrel finds nut.

Starting point is 01:50:59 Wow. Holy molly. Jim Hiller was saying that he was like, I was so blown away with Easton Cowan and is hounding of the puck. Hounding of the puck. That's, that lines in. higher job. That's an incredible third line on paper. That is a traditional checking line. That is a traditional third line. Sissons isn't the most offensive, but he's not an offensive

Starting point is 01:51:26 black hole. Nick Paul, not the most offensive, but he's not an offensive black hole. Easton Cowan, you would hope, is the guy who provides offense there. But they're dogged on pucks. They're going to hit you. They're going to take away time and space. they're going to make your, that whole bottom six is going to make your life harder. Great. If we're looking to take certain responsibilities away from Austin Matthews to make it easier for him to score goals, that bottom six nailed it. So I had McKenna on a third line because I'm just trying to spread out the scoring.

Starting point is 01:52:01 You have scoring line, scoring line, makes your life harder line, makes your life harder line here. So is McKenna going to? going to thrive under Tavares and Nielander. Well, only time will tell, but I can tell you this. I can tell you this. I think his skill set, John Stead! That's okay. It's cool.

Starting point is 01:52:26 I think his skill set is perfect. Perfect. You have two incredible goal scores in John Tavaris and William Nielander. And by the way, if things go well, Tavaris and Elander should combine for about any goals. Yes. That's what we need from them. Roughly.

Starting point is 01:52:47 Well, I mean, that's roughly what they gave us last year. And this line probably more than any other, including the Matthews line, is going to get the largest share of offensive zone starts. Mm-hmm. And should. And yeah, you're protecting the kid by doing that, but that is also something you ought to be doing with Nealander, ought to be doing it with Tavares. And if you end up in the D zone, you can be confident that Tavares

Starting point is 01:53:16 is going to win that face off. And if it's on his wrong side, then you give the face off to Nielander. There's a lot of protection of McKenna here, and you're going to be able to accentuate his skills, which his shot is great. His hands are great. I think he's really underrated in stick battles in the corner,

Starting point is 01:53:37 but his primary skill set is getting used. the puck so you can rip it. So I like it. Jesse, what did it look like? Did McKenna look out of place? His, in terms of stature, yes. Yeah, because he's not big. I was at training camp yesterday, day one, the guys are on the ice for the first time. I'm seeing them on the ice for the first time all season. And you can point out the 18 year old amongst a bunch of grown man. It is what it is. He's 160 something pounds. You know, this man, he's going to grow into an adult's body. So there is that in terms of skill like his his skating um who was it was john tovarez who spoke in the scrum afterwards and he complimented the way he's able to stay on the puck and that he's got like a good

Starting point is 01:54:25 tripod you know he's not going to be easy to put uh take off of the the puck even at that size because his hands are really good and his skating is really crafty i would i'd give i'd give him that word He's not like, he's not like, not blistering, where it's like, I'm a big body, I'm staying on the puck. He's so crafty with this skating in his hands that it's going to be difficult to take him off the buck. And I think that's where his skills are going to shine early on because he is going to take time to grow into his game. I don't think you expect him out of the gate to be an 80 point player or anything like that. But he's got all the skills there as this young kid rookie coming in to develop all of that. Tavares and Nealander aren't small, but they're also not like you wouldn't call them big and you wouldn't call them tough.

Starting point is 01:55:06 They're both extremely difficult to remove from the puck. And Neil Anderson is one of the best in the NHH. Yes, he is. When he's locked. Oh, yeah. When he's locked, when he's feeling it. Of course.

Starting point is 01:55:15 And I think they need to have a chat with him. I hope they have. And said, Willie, like, we're pushing 30 here. You need to be locked like every night now. That is paramount to this team's success. There's just no way around it. Sorry. But one of the other things I was trying to do by putting McKenna on the third line.

Starting point is 01:55:32 I was trying to find the kid protection. Right. If you've seen his highlights from the WHL, he'll kill you. He'll slash, he'll two-hand slash you until his stick breaks. Yep. Oh, he gets angry. And evidently at a bar, he'll punch. That's what you, well, that's what you need.

Starting point is 01:55:53 In the National Hockey League, believe it or not, that is not a negative that's a positive. You need a temper. You need to be able to do that. John Tavares has the history of head and neck issues. well, I guess Nealander is the migraine and stuff too. For the love of God, I'm not asking you to drop your helmet and fight. I'm not even asking you to take your gloves off, but let people know they can't touch the kid. Yes.

Starting point is 01:56:13 For God's sake. The D.R. You don't have to worry about the forward group. You got defensemen out there too. Jake McCabe's not going to let anybody push McKenna around. You're in a division with the Panthers. All of you are involved. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:56:24 And I think Nick Paul could maybe help them with that too. He's not on that line. Chris Tann. No, I know. But yeah, the swarming. We'll be fine. It's got to be the whole roster. I think they've learned

Starting point is 01:56:35 hopefully. I swear if you haven't learned, you better learn very fast before the game start from the Matthews incident. Yes. And nobody will ever let something like that happen ever again. I hope. Sometimes it takes hitting rock bottom. Exactly. We're going to learn a lot. They went to rehab and now they're out.

Starting point is 01:56:50 I hope so. I hope so. No relapses people. And you know, look, I'll give Morgan Riley credit. He does not shy away from that stuff either. He will get, he will get angry. I like that. So, okay. He was one of the guys on the ice. So we're excited we're punked. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 01:57:05 Yeah, well, listen, I, I, they were all to blame. That infection thing, the, sorry, the virus infection, whatever Morgan had, it seems like it was a lot less than Cheika kind of made it ominously to make it out to me. I was surprised to see him on the, yeah, today he's just out there and maybe he plays game one of the preseason. I don't know. Yeah, it seems like nothing to worry about. How long before we adjust to McKenna wearing 92 and not getting a mixed up with Alex Neel? later. Pretty quick.

Starting point is 01:57:34 Yeah, you think so? I don't know. He was a legend here. He's in Calgary now. Daniel Alfordson in a Leafs suit was friggin' weird. It was weird. It was weird, but cool. I got to say, like I saw so many people reacting to that.

Starting point is 01:57:50 Oh, this is weird. This is weird. Bob in Leaf's colors is weirder. Yeah? That's way weirder. That's freaking on. It's cool. They just actually, the Leafs just posted a picture of, or a video of

Starting point is 01:58:02 Austin Matthews coming in on Bobrovsky and Bobrowski robbing him. And also, just so you know, all the new signage went up yesterday, and we can end the show on this. The new saying for the season is, passion never sleeps. How do we feel? Desi's not down. I'm sure I will warm up to it. It is better than no grit, no grind, no grime. No, that was their internal nonsense, right?

Starting point is 01:58:31 nonsense crap. Which I don't know if they still have that pain on the wall. Passion never sleeps. That's going to come in handy when I'm posting LFRs at 2 in the morning. Passion never sleeps. That's not bad. Please live by it though. Yep.

Starting point is 01:58:47 Live by it. Stop being afraid of the market. Stop being afraid of the fans. It encourages us to go insane. Please. Yeah. We have such an odd relationship with noise in the city because the Leafs will say we're trying to block out the noise

Starting point is 01:59:03 and then on the Jumbotron it goes make some noise followed by no one making noise and also you can't afford to make noise in our building our tickets are too much unless you pay Keith Pelly personally $800 to wave the flag then he'll let you in

Starting point is 01:59:21 much closer to 900 Oh yeah 850 you have to pay a fee to stand up and cheer Yes there's a sit down fee There's a cheering fee this year There is a cheering fee tomorrow I'm not saying nothing. The Steve Dangle podcast.

Starting point is 01:59:37 Follow the guys on Twitter. At Steve underscore Dangle at Adam W Y-L-D-E. And at Jesse Blake. Connection complete. Where some see heroes and others see egos. Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. A fad to some. The future of money to others.

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The Steve Dangle Podcast - Request Denied | September 18, 2026

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